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Author Topic: Let's get Slider (aka Mark Vaughan) a nice 4-channel DSO with math functions!  (Read 21763 times)

JouleSeeker

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  Thanks, Jim!

 Wow!  the donations stand now at $375, out of $399 needed to purchase the 4-channel scope for Slider!  (All contributed in about 13 hours!)

@all:  There is still a small window of opportunity to contribute, if YOU wish to do so.

JouleSeeker

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  Nice!  a donor who wishes to remain Anonymous donates $50 for Slider's scope!
Over the top - as donations reach $425, exceeding the goal actually.

Its still Friday here, so goal reached in one day, in about 14 hours.
Thanks, everyone!
Shows what we can do as a community of friends and fellow researchers!

MarkE

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Mark E
Please don't assume so much ,the what when where why's and hows
of the equipment and its use.
Mark V  has been doing work with us for almost 5 years [maybe longer?]
Nor should you assume Much about the skills being brought to bear on
these projects,  its not a one man Band.

Regarding Equipment ,you are absolutely correct ,not every experimenter needs unlimited inventory ,spreading resources around is part of OUR plan, also we are investigating starting a Non Profit group which can access equipment Donations from university and industry or private parties ,you see we have no salaries or expenses beyond our Time and actual costs to experiment,we really don't need a well .
 we pride ourselves in doing more with less and quite honestly we do have some very gifted minds with much experience at doing just _ that_.


No greedy fellows or time to waste here.


Who Is SA and where was his well ?
also
do you have inventory that you could loan to experimenters ?
this is a path we will use to tool up certain upcoming projects


respectfully
Chet
There is no assumption.  There is direct observation and a resulting caution offered that you are free to do with as you see fit.

SA is Sterling Allan.  In 2012 and early 2013 he sought money for his trips and causes with increasing frequency.  He peaked out when he sought funding to go see what was supposed to be a definitive  week long demonstration by Yildiz of his magic magnet only motor.  The trip was a fiasco, Sterling took off to go see another inventor over the border in France and shortly after that Sterling's ability to raise donations plummeted.

If there is one thing that you should get a hold of it is a power analyzer that is in good condition.  I do not have one that I can lend you.

ramset

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Mark E
Odd you would Compare what you see here to "SA's"
Model
very Odd indeed.


Actually i Perceive this model as quite unique and am
very proud of these men and what they are trying to do
as well as the standards which they hold themselves to.


Actually the opposite of the "SA" model ,Here it will be
investigation prior to claims.




MarkE

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Mark E
Odd you would Compare what you see here to "SA's"
Model
very Odd indeed.
I don't see why you find it odd.  There are generous folks out there.  The lesson from SA's example is that the well is finite.
Quote


Actually i Perceive this model as quite unique and am
very proud of these men and what they are trying to do
as well as the standards which they hold themselves to.
That is all fine and well.
Quote


Actually the opposite of the "SA" model ,Here it will be
investigation prior to claims.
That's a big improvement over the believe first, ask relevant questions never model employed by SA.  (I still bang my head everytime I think of his promotion of an empty rusting box as a working free energy machine.)  It doesn't change the fact that there is only so much water in the well.  You do yourself service if you draw your water judiciously.

ramset

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Mark E
Watching these men work and toil day in and day out
for the last five years carrying water for this community
Plus digging into their own pockets and financing work for all to
benefit from... as well as that all so precious  commodity _Time_ .

I have nothing but respect and gratitude for them and worry
not the least about their Judgement or this new direction ,where
 others have the opportunity to carry some water too...in whatever way they can.


Your comparing this effort to the work of Sterling Allen or even mentioning
trips about black boxes and head banging  leaves me with the feeling I have
 done a poor job describing the Goals here.


a new thread will be started in the next few days to define this,  perhaps
a better spokesperson will help with that .


Thx
Chet
PS
Once again Thanks to all who helped and also to those who wish they could.
there are some wonderful experiments and techs on their way here.














TinselKoala

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Quote from: MarkE
If there is one thing that you should get a hold of it is a power analyzer that is in good condition.  I do not have one that I can lend you.
   


Here's one for Wesley:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Magtrol-model-4612B-POWER-ANALYZER-/301021500486?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4616479446

 :o

Even on EBay, modern wideband power analyzers are very costly. But even basic ones should be able to handle most of the devices we see demonstrated here, like the recent one from Turkey, the "Turxator" that fools its inline Wattmeter into displaying "zero watts" drawn from the big honking power supply.   ???

This one's cute:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valhalla-Scientific-Model-2100-Digital-Power-Analyzer-/151431050896

But for serious players, you'd need to spend a few dollars more:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valhalla-Scientific-2330A-Programmable-Digital-Power-Analyzer-w-GPIB-TESTED-/271497296910

Or...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yokogawa-WT3000-Precision-Power-Analyzer-Motor-Ver-Full-opt-/151447765258

 :-\

MarkE

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A good quality power analyzer, particularly one that can handle high crest factors is a fairly necessary item for evaluating claims of electrical "energy amplification".

MarkE

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Mark E
Watching these men work and toil day in and day out
for the last five years carrying water for this community
Plus digging into their own pockets and financing work for all to
benefit from... as well as that all so precious  commodity _Time_ .

I have nothing but respect and gratitude for them and worry
not the least about their Judgement or this new direction ,where
 others have the opportunity to carry some water too...in whatever way they can.


Your comparing this effort to the work of Sterling Allen or even mentioning
trips about black boxes and head banging  leaves me with the feeling I have
 done a poor job describing the Goals here.


a new thread will be started in the next few days to define this,  perhaps
a better spokesperson will help with that .


Thx
Chet
PS
Once again Thanks to all who helped and also to those who wish they could.
there are some wonderful experiments and techs on their way here.
I have tried to convey a very simple message to you several times now:  Charity is a finite resource.  Use it wisely.

If I were considering equipping someone who might casually chase an unusual idea, I think that I would be inclined to purchase the gear, and loan it rather than gift it.  That way if the equipment does not see good use, I would at least have the theoretical option of redeploying it some place else.

TinselKoala

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I'd be inclined to second that motion. For something like a power analyzer or spectrum analyzer especially, that is rarely used but expensive to own, it makes good sense to have them held "in common" and loaned out when needed by individual researchers. I mean, why spend thousands of dollars on something that takes ten minutes to connect, another ten minutes to take some readings.... heck, you'll spend more time warming it up than actually using it, in our testing scenarios.

I can borrow an older Clarke-Hess 2330 power analyzer pretty much whenever I really need to. It's kind of a hassle, involving a couple days of travel to fetch and return it, but I have done it for certain projects.

The scope is another matter though. I don't think a day goes by that I don't turn on a scope or two to tinker about with something. I even use my old Tek RM503 as a room heater when it's cold outside. And for preliminary power testing and spectrum snooping the DSO with math including fft  is a valuable tool.

ramset

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Mark E
Quote
I have tried to convey a very simple message to you several times now:  Charity is a finite resource.  Use it wisely.
End Quote
----------------------------
@ Mark E
Charity is a Big word ,implies an association with the Needy ,wanting, unable to survive unassisted etc etc
In This case I feel you are using this word as a Dig,  you don't approve.


Perhaps another perspective will shed some light ..?
  Here we have charitable fellows toiling day in and day out for those who
are needy ,wanting or unable to do for themselves, those who wish they
could have access to power of clean water or perhaps grow some crops
or provide some light or warmth or housing .


this is true Charity...


they have a dream and it involves hard work and dedication ,not some
fleeting moment playing at a hobby,each and everyone of them has a
history of selfless  giving...
Tinsel included...


so I flip your ignorant Charity comment back in your face .


Also I make note,
That these forums have need of charity ,the kind of charity which the likes of
Slider,TinselKoala,Tinman  ,itsu ,Rob Mason,Grumage,Wesley and many othere BUILDERS AND EXPERIMENTERS who very charitably donate Much time and resource for the benefit of this community
 as well as those who charitably support them and others behind the scenes.
   When you believe so strongly in a cause [a better Planet] that you give until it hurts
every day....well your right MARK E sometimes you have to reflect on the burden this places on your benefactors ,there is only so much they can do for you...
  So yes these charitable men need some give back from those who would benefit from their years of selfless toiling .
 
so this constitutes a new direction where those who need help
and have been getting it for many years from a few dedicated researchers
[that actually do more than sit behind a desk and critique]


those folk can help themselves and other less fortunate by recognizing
that this group of men stand head and shoulders above the likes of Sterling
Allen and truly do deserve everything that we can send their way to help
them Help Us
to make this a better world for all.


But you are right about at least One thing Mark E
we would not want their well to run dry...


Chet
PS
And yes I completely understand that this is just something you do to
pass time and you absolutely have no belief whatsoever in what we do here.
as they say in the Big House..
You do you...


I will be starting another topic on this to clarify this new direction.

MarkE

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Mark E
Quote
I have tried to convey a very simple message to you several times now:  Charity is a finite resource.  Use it wisely.
End Quote
----------------------------
Charity is a Big word ,implies an association with the Needy ,wanting, unable to survive unassisted etc etc
In This case I feel you are using this word as a Dig,  you don't approve.
Then you feel wrong.  there is no dig.  Like the many other people and organizations that seek charity you ask for donations.  That's asking for charity.  One can always ask and others can always say yes or no.  As long as fraud isn't involved any transactions are the business of the participants. 

My message isn't hidden or nuanced.  There's a finite supply of donors  Use it wisely. 
Quote


Perhaps another perspective will shed some light ..?
  Here we have charitable fellows toiling day in and day out for those who
are needy ,wanting or unable to do for themselves, those who wish they
could have access to power of clean water or perhaps grow some crops
or provide some light.

Well, that would be true if those fellows would not be doing what they do if it were not for requests from others.  Responsibility follows those who make the decisions.  Others may benefit, and they do they may be grateful or not.  They may decide to show gratitude materially or not. 
Quote

this is true Charity...

A wise fellow once said that the only true charity is anonymous.
Quote

they have a dream and it involves hard work and dedication ,not some
fleeting moment playing at a hobby,each and everyone of them has a
history of selfless  giving...
Tinsel included...

What motivates people unseen could be anything.  I have not made any attempt to guess.
Quote

so I flip your nasty self righteous  condescending Charity comment back in your face .
Basically, you have been flipping out reading all kinds of fantastical ideas into what has been a simple and sincere piece of advice.
Quote

Also I make note,
That these forums have need of charity ,the kind of charity which the likes of
Slider,TinselKoala,Tinman  ,itsu ,Rob Mason,Grumage, and many othere BUILDERS AND EXPERIMENTERS who very charitably donate Much time and resource for the benefit of this community
 as well as those who charitably support them and others behind the scenes.
When you believe so strongly in a cause [a better Planet] that you give until it hurts
every day....well your right MARK E sometimes you have to reflect on the burden this places on your benefactors ,there is only so much they can do for you...
  So yes these charitable men need some give back from those who would benefit from their years of selfless toiling .

Again that's the Catch-22 with true Charity:  Someone acting out of true charity does not seek anything in return, not even recognition.  If others choose to support and/or reward what they see as worthy good works, that is up to them to decide.  No matter how good the works, some will and others won't.  The number who will is finite.
Quote

so this constitutes a new direction where those who need help
and have been getting it for many years from a few dedicated researchers
[that actually do more than sit behind a desk and critique]

If you hae something to say, why don't you just say it?
Quote

those folk can help themselves and other less fortunate by recognizing
that this group of men stand head and shoulders above the likes of Sterling
Allen and truly do deserve everything that we can send their way to help
them Help Us to make this a better world for all.
First, evaluation of the worth of any person's work is in the eye of the beholder.  There is no moral obligation for one to support the efforts of another just because someone thinks that they are doing something valuable.  If someone thinks that they are doing something valuable or could do something valuable if only they could find a patron, they are free to seek out the charity of one or more patrons.  Different people will always have different ideas about the value of any other person's efforts.  While I think TK does great work, there are nutters who think he is an agent of big oil.  Nothing compels those nutters to contribute towards TK's ongoing work.  Conversely, there are people you believe are doing valuable work that others will assess quite differently.
Quote


B[size=78%]ut you are right about at least One thing Mark E [/size]
we would not want their well to run dry...


Chet
PS
And yes I completely understand that this is just something you do to
pass time and you absolutely have no belief whatsoever in what we do here.
I don't believe in extraordinary claims that lack evidence.
Quote
as they say in the Big House..
You do you...
I've never been a guest of the State.  I wouldn't know.  Occasionally fraudsters like Greg Potter end up in such places.
Quote

I will be starting another topic on this and will not post another word here.

ramset

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Mark E
your liking the association as presented here as charity
would be like the captain of a sinking ship calling the food and
support of those keeping his boat afloat Charity...
here there is a symbiotic relationship which is much more personal
to the task at hand .


however your disinterest in assisting those that are helping keep your boat a float
and referring to their needs as charity  speak volumes.


I will leave you to your tower and unique perspective ,I have to go grab a pail...

















 

MarkE

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Mark E
your liking the association as presented here as charity
would be like the captain of a sinking ship calling the food and
support of those keeping his boat afloat Charity...
You ask for donations.  That's charity.  There's nothing wrong with it per-se.  It is what it is.  I have no idea why it upsets you so.
Quote
here there is a symbiotic relationship which is much more personal
to the task at hand .
If you are referring to the relationship between the donors and your group one can always hope that both sides are satisfied with the results.
Quote


however your disinterest in assisting those that are helping keep your boat a float
and referring to their needs as charity  speak volumes.
Spades are spades even if you refuse to recognize them.  My flotilla seems to be doing just fine independent of the efforts of slider.
Quote


I will leave you to your tower and unique perspective ,I have to go grab a pail...
Do as you like.

Jimboot

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I have tried to convey a very simple message to you several times now:  Charity is a finite resource.  Use it wisely.

If I were considering equipping someone who might casually chase an unusual idea, I think that I would be inclined to purchase the gear, and loan it rather than gift it.  That way if the equipment does not see good use, I would at least have the theoretical option of redeploying it some place else.


It's just a bunch of blokes chipping in for a mate. Pretty common over here.