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Author Topic: Are scalar waves BS?  (Read 35347 times)

Offline pomodoro

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #60 on: January 31, 2015, 12:28:10 PM »
The spheres act as capacitors, so your hand intercepts the field. At some wavelength, in the higher MHz, the capacitance of the sphere might resonate with the pancake coil and radiate some power as maxwell / hertzian waves. How much depends on the radiation resistance. Out of resonance, not much is radiated, but if close enough, the spheres communicate by an electric field as in a capacitor. Earthing and not connecting by wire will reduce the signal dramatically. Tesla also used a mast way too short for effective radiation at the wavelength of the frequency he used.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #60 on: January 31, 2015, 12:28:10 PM »

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #61 on: February 01, 2015, 02:40:35 AM »

Here is a link to Lord Kelvin's paper: On the Generation of Longitudinal Waves in Ether

Has anybody tried to test this with bipolar Tesla coil? Than there would be no need for that single wire.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
@Farmhand

Those coils that you made are really nice.

Did you make them yourself?

What frequency were they tuned to?

Thanks for the link to Thomson's paper. I'll check that out.

Those coils were the first Tesla coils I constructed and operated at about 460 kHz. I experimented with a delay line between the transformers as the connecting wire as well, which was a length of cable coiled up and tuned with a capacitor to the resonant frequency so that there was a 1/4 Wavelength on the connecting wire as well, that did improve the performance and stability a bit.

To do it better ground planes should be used under the coils maybe.

......................

To comment on the hand interfering with the transmission, this is more likely the fact that if one places a grounded object like the
hand within the induction field of either coil the L/C of the coil changes and that puts the setup out of tune and the power drops
off, it's not shielding it's adding capacitance and de-tuning the coil.

Also when Meyl shows two different frequencies in my opinion he is showing a lower harmonic excitement at the lower frequency
which is less powerful and easier to disturb, then he increases the driver frequency to the frequency of resonance of the coils and
this shows a strong resonant response which is more powerful and more difficult to disturb.

These setups are not meant to radiate radio waves, they are not radio transmitters the elevated capacitance allows a large
potential to develop and the charge to be contained ( not leak off) then this high potential causes the current to flow into the
ground causing a ground disturbance, when tuned the ground disturbance created by the transmitter can be used to excite a
receiver at a distance to resonant activity, at the base of the transmitter is a ground plate and near or at that is a 0 volt current
node, at 1/4 wavelength from the transmitter the potential alternations of the standing wave is maximum. And so if the system
is tuned to the diameter of the planet then the farther you could get from the transmitter the greater the potential fluctuation
you have to excite the receiver, 0 volt node at the transmitter base and maximum potential alternation at the anti-node on the
opposite side of the planet. Now if the setup was tuned to 3 x 1/4 wavelengths across the planet then there would be one point
between the transmitter and receiver where the potential alternation would be about the same as at the receiver.  The system
could be tuned to have an odd multiple of the 1/4 wavelength between transmitter and receiver and this will result in a maximum
potential alternation at the receiver and at every odd multiple of the 1/4 wavelength distance. Going back from the 1/4
wavelength towards the transmitter would see the potential of the alternations decrease to zero at the transmitter. Simple.

Having said all that it would be almost impossible to totally suppress the emission of some radio waves which Tesla clearly states
as well.

Close to the transmitter the induction field can be used to power stuff, but that's not radiations.

Tesla states that his transmitters can be tuned to emit different ratios of radio waves to ground currents/disturbance/waves.


A radio transmitter on the other hand, the radiated power drops off with distance, and the transmitter is tuned to maximum radiation of "radio waves", but ground disturbance and ground current still occur to some degree.

A radio transmitter the radiated energy is maximized and the ground is the reference.

A Tesla transmitter the radiated energy is minimized the ground currents are maximized and the elevated terminal is the reference.

The connecting conductor is a transmission line.

.

.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline DROBNJAK

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #62 on: February 01, 2015, 01:21:01 PM »
@Farmhand

Thanks for detailed explanation. Very useful, I can learn a lot from that.

Your explanation of how Dr. Meyl's hand changed capacitance of the system and de-tuned L/C circuit is 100% spot on.

Q: when you design your stuff, do you start from equations or do you just follow trial & error method?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I've just read this article that somebody in this thread: Observation of scalar longitudinal electrodynamic waves. Guys called Monstein & Wesley did a competent experiment with pulsating 433.59 MHz spherical source charge. They separated oscillating sphere by almost 1km (0.7miles) and still got resonance from a scalar wave.

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #63 on: February 04, 2015, 09:00:33 AM »
Well the very first Tesla transformers I made took some time to get the resonant frequency down to a low enough frequency so that
my home made input circuit could excite the "transmitter" primary at the full resonant frequency, at the time I was unaware of the online Tesla coil design calculators. Like this- http://www.extremeelectronics.co.uk/index.php?page=oltc_calc

They work very well for simple solenoids and there are different ones for different coil types, however they cannot predict exactly
the results when we use a 3 coil system ( primary - secondary - extra coil ).

So now to design a three coil setup I use a combination of the online calculator, regular calculations and my previous experiences
to get as close as possible to what I want. Then there is always a need to fine tune the coils to each other and also to use an
appropriate driver circuit so the frequency of excitement can be varied as well.

For example I know that when different loads are applied in different ways certain adjustments will need to be made to keep the
system in "full transfer power tune" or in " full terminal voltage tune". When actually transmitting power at the systems limits
to output power from the receiver output coil the voltage at the elevated terminals will begin to get pulled down by the load.

Being a tuned circuit it's all about the tuning and I find its always best if I can finely adjust the primary inductance and
capacitance as well as the secondary inductance (tuning coil between secondary bottom and the ground stake), it's not practical
to vary the elevated terminal capacitance "on the fly" so being able to vary almost every other parameter a bit either side of full
resonance is very useful.

some loads add capacitance and some loads can reduce inductance ect.

..


Offline DROBNJAK

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #64 on: February 04, 2015, 01:08:32 PM »
@Farmhand: Thanks Man, thanks. I love reading this stuff.

What do you think about bipolar coils? I was thinking, everybody says that both Tesla's and Meyl's power transfer is not valid, because of use of grounding. So, I thought ungrounded bipolar coil should prove it either way. But one would need to make and tune 4 coils!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #64 on: February 04, 2015, 01:08:32 PM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #65 on: February 06, 2015, 11:38:20 PM »
Not quite, Tesla's documented actual experiments and demo's lighting a bank of globes at a distance are/were valid, however, his
"world system" was never demonstrated so there is only his claims about that. Many people make all kinds of silly claims on his
behalf that he never ever made. He never claimed any OU or extra energy from his transmission arrangements, I challenge anyone
to show words from Tesla that do claim extra energy from the operation of his transmission setups. I have many times and no can
provide these claims by Tesla all they have is his claims of magnification of voltage and current, he never claimed any excess energy
regarding his transmission systems. People misunderstand and misrepresent his claims about power as if power was energy. Big
mistake. Personally I don't think his system would have been as efficient as he thought or even be viable nowadays.

Meyl doesn't use an actual ground to the ground. He uses a connecting wire as I did in my demonstration. Ergo his claims of
scalar energy and not being able to shield or disrupt the energy transfer between the terminals is just BS. If Meyl connected
the connecting conductor to ground his effects would be diminished, and if he did away with the connecting wire and used
actual ground stakes at some distance apart his system would be lucky to even light a single 3 mm LED.

Because of the connecting wire the transmitter and the receiver can be in different metal clad sheds and the setup works the
same as if it was in the open, more or less.

His calculations mean nothing without a demonstrable "out of the ordinary result" which he can not produce, at least not that I
have seen.

He's a professor and I am a boilermaker who has a hobby of messing with all different kinds of stuff. I believe my results were
better than his. In my humble opinion he is knowingly misrepresenting what is happening in his demo's.

.



 

Offline jbignes5

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #66 on: February 07, 2015, 12:28:45 AM »


Referring to your editorial comment of even date, the question of wireless interference is puzzling only because of its novelty. The underlying principle is old, and it has presented itself for consideration in numerous forms. Just now it appears in the novel aspects of aerial navigation and wireless transmission. Every human effort must of necessity create a disturbance. What difference is there in essence, between the commotion produced by any revolutionary idea or improvement and that of a wireless transmitter? The spectre of interference has been conjured by Hertzwave or radio telegraphy in which attunement is absolutely impossible, simply because the effect diminishes rapidly with distance. But to my system of energy transmission, based on the use of impulses not sensibly diminishing with distance, perfect attunement and the higher artifice of individualization are practicable. As ever, the ghost will vanish with the wireless dawn.

Nikola Tesla
New York, Oct. 21, 1907

 Did you use IMPULSE technology? If you didn't then you didn't replicate a thing Tesla did.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #66 on: February 07, 2015, 12:28:45 AM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #67 on: February 07, 2015, 02:25:25 AM »
1) Impulse Technology was used, but it isn't a requirement for Tesla's Transmission systems anyway, he clearly states in his book
on his work with alternating currents that he can excite his Magnifying Transmitter Primary with any arbitrary wave shape, and a
sinusoidal wave on the oscillating secondary circuit will result, (which is true). He also states in CSN that a high ratio of
transformation is better for power transmission and a system with a lot of resonant rise is better for signals. Both are tuned
circuits anyway, I believe.

2) I don't claim a replication of Tesla's transmission system.

3) What I claim is equal or better results than Meyl (who uses a sine wave excitement from a function generator), by using the
setup I built, which is like Meyl's, but I used a battery and a chopper circuit to power mine. I used two three coil Tesla Type
air core resonant Transformers to do it.

4) I don't claim a formal demonstration I just filmed what I did at times and shared it along with the details as I seen fit ir was asked for.

..

Maybe this looks more like "Impulse Technology". More power and voltage, and a high speed rotary spark gap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nkJtrKCdFg

Or this maybe. It's all good fun hey.
.

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #68 on: February 07, 2015, 03:13:48 AM »
@DROBNJAK, Oh about the bipolar setups they are different in that the primary excites both secondaries.
As my health is improving I hope to be in a position to continue with some experiments and measurements with a bipolar setup
which is air core and resonant, but not really a "Tesla Coil" as such, it has tuning capacitors across the secondaries rather than
"toploads".  I'll be trying to measure input and real power outputs at 420 Khz, which is almost a pointless exercise except I
might learn something. The tanks get resonating voltages up to 1600 volts peak to peak with 12 volts input at under one ampere,
less than 10 Watts input, no output, just a resonating tank. Still need to build a H bridge circuit to try with it. It's meant to be a lighting setup eventually, ala HF lighting, emergency light on the wall kinda thing, runs from a battery. I'll be trying to get some
accurate measurements with some different loads across the secondaries.

..

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #69 on: February 07, 2015, 04:23:53 AM »
@DROBNJAK, Oh about the bipolar setups they are different in that the primary excites both secondaries.
As my health is improving I hope to be in a position to continue with some experiments and measurements with a bipolar setup
which is air core and resonant, but not really a "Tesla Coil" as such, it has tuning capacitors across the secondaries rather than
"toploads".  I'll be trying to measure input and real power outputs at 420 Khz, which is almost a pointless exercise except I
might learn something. The tanks get resonating voltages up to 1600 volts peak to peak with 12 volts input at under one ampere,
less than 10 Watts input, no output, just a resonating tank. Still need to build a H bridge circuit to try with it. It's meant to be a lighting setup eventually, ala HF lighting, emergency light on the wall kinda thing, runs from a battery. I'll be trying to get some
accurate measurements with some different loads across the secondaries.

..

Farmhand:

I am happy to hear that you are getting better.  I enjoy following your experiments and projects.

Bill

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #69 on: February 07, 2015, 04:23:53 AM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #70 on: February 07, 2015, 11:17:32 AM »
Thanks Pirate, Trying to get better has been extremely boring, I find it very difficult to stop chainsawing, digging holes driving
tractor ect. Had to do it, I was spending too much time on the floor rolling around in agony, healing from back injury like bulging
discs is difficult, especially when I see so much that needs to be done around the place. If I start experimenting I get carried
away and end up not sleeping enough or spending too long bent over the bench.  So I bought some smart phones to play with.
Motorola Droid Razr HD XT925 is a handy piece of kit, they can take a bit of moisture as well, in a pinch. Good cheap/tough phone,
but a couple years old now, not a new line, still I cannot stand apple so no Iphones for me.

Phone water test.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzQUoJ-sIaY

Before I post any new video's I'll need a new camera that records to SD (old one is mini tape type).

I'm looking at getting a Fuji XP70 waterproof camera, it can shoot up to 240 frames per second as well for slo mo which might
be handy, also wifi file transfer so no need to dry off the camera and remove the SD or plug in a cable. Records in H264 - MP4
whereas the old one records a DV stream which makes a huge file to transfer and transcode but still not even HD.

If anyone knows of a better similar camera (must be waterproof) that's in the same price range then please let me know.

Fuji finepix XP70
http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/xp/finepix_xp70/specifications/

Sorry for going so far off topic, excited about being able to make good video clips much easier. It's easy to fall behind the tech
these days, I'm nearly always about three years behind.
..

Offline SeaMonkey

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #71 on: February 08, 2015, 07:53:23 AM »
FarmHand,

It is a delight to read your explanations of what you've
observed in your experimentation and your understanding
of the theoretical/technical aspects.

I still remember just a few short years ago when you were
beginning this incredible journey of yours into the mysterious
world of electricity and electronics.  You've come a long, long
way!!

It is very good indeed to hear that your health continues to
improve.  Your ability to keep on doin' in spite of the pain
and physical difficulties is amazing.  Keep on keepin' on!


Offline Farmhand

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #72 on: February 09, 2015, 02:48:47 AM »
SeaMonkey, you are too kind, after a few months of participating in the other free energy forum I quickly learned that I needed
to apply a BS filter. It was you that made me realize that fact, at that time I shunned the other forums and posted only at EF and Then at Heretical Builders to get away from the constant OU fervor at EF. I shunned these forums because they actually had OU in their site names which irked me a bit. But I don't fit in on a conventional electronics forum I don't think, I stopped posting at Heretical because I thought they could use a break from me. So now I mainly post here. 

One thing I would like to do is to enclose my air variable capacitors in transformer oil (in cases) so they can take higher voltages.
I wonder if oil will affect their values at all as well, I guess I'll find out if I do it.

..

 

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #73 on: February 09, 2015, 03:07:48 AM »
SeaMonkey, you are too kind, after a few months of participating in the other free energy forum I quickly learned that I needed
to apply a BS filter. It was you that made me realize that fact, at that time I shunned the other forums and posted only at EF and Then at Heretical Builders to get away from the constant OU fervor at EF. I shunned these forums because they actually had OU in their site names which irked me a bit. But I don't fit in on a conventional electronics forum I don't think, I stopped posting at Heretical because I thought they could use a break from me. So now I mainly post here. 

One thing I would like to do is to enclose my air variable capacitors in transformer oil (in cases) so they can take higher voltages.
I wonder if oil will affect their values at all as well, I guess I'll find out if I do it.

..

 

What kind of oil I wonder?  I would suppose that you want oil with the highest dialectic strength?  Is there a chart of these oils or, do you just use say a 90 wt. gear oil?  I have always wondered about this.  Maybe, all oil is a better insulator than air so it makes little difference.

Let me know what you come up with.

Bill

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline MarkE

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #74 on: February 09, 2015, 03:29:53 AM »
What kind of oil I wonder?  I would suppose that you want oil with the highest dialectic strength?  Is there a chart of these oils or, do you just use say a 90 wt. gear oil?  I have always wondered about this.  Maybe, all oil is a better insulator than air so it makes little difference.

Let me know what you come up with.

Bill
Plain mineral oil works well.  Motor oil has all kinds of additives that don't help electrical performance.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #74 on: February 09, 2015, 03:29:53 AM »

 

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