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Author Topic: Are scalar waves BS?  (Read 35350 times)

Offline DROBNJAK

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #45 on: January 29, 2015, 08:21:46 PM »
Interesting. Is that in Meyl's book? If so, do you have a page number?

@Void: its your lucky day today, I found it in the first try ;-)

Book: Scalar waves by Konstantin Meyl
Chapter 9.8 Measuring and switching technique of Nikola Tesla, pg.205
Chapter: 9.9 Energy technical usage, pg. 207

The description about collecting neutrinos starts at a bottom half. For the benefit of those who don't have a book, I'll do a short excerpt:

from pg.205

" ... The degree of effectiveness of today's distribution technology of current due to the having losses lies clearly beneath 100 per cent. Without the losses of the wiring it lies close to 100 per cent for the discussed one wire energy transmission. There the vortex rings are guided nicely one after another along the line like beads drawn over a string. This result eve is to be expected, as far as no vortex "jumps off" the wire or "falls apart". For the wireless version Tesla however to his own surprise had to find out that more energy could be received, than his transmitter produced. The measured degree of effectiveness lay above 100 per cent! He therefore called his transmitter a "Magnifying Transmitter" (fig. 9.10). The further transmitter and receiver were away of each other, the further the received energy increased. Tesla inferred from this, that there had to exist free energy and that he had caught that too."

form pg.207:

" ... If the neutrinos for instance are just positively charged when leaving the transmitter electrode, than an electromagnetic force of attraction takes place, if the receiver electrode at the same time is negatively charged. The required operation with the same frequency and opposite phase guarantees that also the next moment, if both, the neutrino and the receiver, have changed their polarity, the electromagnetic attraction is preserved.

It is obvious, that strange neutrinos which fly past and by chance oscillate synchronously are as well attracted. In that way the power collected in the receiver capacitor will increase further and degrees of effectiveness of over 100% are obtainable. Tesla discharges the receiver capacitor timed with the frequency of resonance (fig. 9.9) and point to the difficulty of an exact keeping of the condition of synchronization. ... "

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #45 on: January 29, 2015, 08:21:46 PM »

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #46 on: January 29, 2015, 08:39:06 PM »
But neutrinos have NO charge (which is why they are called Neutrinos (little neutral ones)), and they are very difficult even to detect, much less "collect". If Meyl can demonstrate otherwise, maybe he should apply to CERN for a job. Just to tide him over until the Nobel committee awards him his prize, of course.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline DROBNJAK

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #47 on: January 29, 2015, 09:05:49 PM »
But neutrinos have NO charge ...

Well, he obviously knows that. He is not a simpleton. You have to give him a benefit of doubt and read the whole book.

Offline Void

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #48 on: January 29, 2015, 09:32:23 PM »
TK, thanks for the info on Faraday cages. Good to know.

Drobniak, thanks for those page references. That really is interesting.
I intend to read through Meyl's book, but it will likely take me quite a while. :D


Regarding Neutrinos, although neutrinos are neutral, they can apparently cause an energetic reaction when interacting with matter:
"When a muon neutrino interacts with a nucleus, it can produce an energetic muon which travels only a short distance, emitting a sharply outlined
cone of Cerenkov radiation which can be detected by photomultiplier tubes. An electron neutrino interaction can produce an energetic electron,
but the Cerenkov cone from this interaction differs significantly from that of the muon. The electron generates a shower of electrons and positrons,
each with its own Cerenkov cone."
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/particles/neutrino2.html

I am not a physicist, and they were referring specifically to reactions in a detector, but it sounds from the above like neutrinos can possibly give an energy boost,
at least under certain conditions, when interacting/colliding with other matter. I will leave that for the physicists to consider and analyze. It sounds like it might
at least be possible however.  :)

All the best...




Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #49 on: January 29, 2015, 10:23:04 PM »
Indeed, and that is how neutrinos are _actually_ detected by real scientists.
Quote
Work began in 1990 and was completed in 1999. The detector consists of 1,000 tonnes of ultra pure heavy water enclosed in a transparent plastic vessel measuring 12 metres across. The vessel is itself enclosed in 7,000 tonnes of ultra pure normal water, lodged in an immense cavity measuring 22 metres wide and 34 metres high (the equivalent of a 10-storey building). It is the largest underground opening ever excavated at two kilometres depth.
The acrylic vessel is surrounded by a 17-metre geodesic dome equipped with 9,600 detectors that sense the presence of neutrinos. The frequency of neutrino detection is one per hour.
Out of an unimaginably high number that are passing through the detector.

http://astro-canada.ca/_en/a2115.php



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #49 on: January 29, 2015, 10:23:04 PM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #50 on: January 29, 2015, 11:12:48 PM »
@Void: its your lucky day today, I found it in the first try ;-)

Book: Scalar waves by Konstantin Meyl
Chapter 9.8 Measuring and switching technique of Nikola Tesla, pg.205
Chapter: 9.9 Energy technical usage, pg. 207

The description about collecting neutrinos starts at a bottom half. For the benefit of those who don't have a book, I'll do a short excerpt:

from pg.205

" ... The degree of effectiveness of today's distribution technology of current due to the having losses lies clearly beneath 100 per cent. Without the losses of the wiring it lies close to 100 per cent for the discussed one wire energy transmission. There the vortex rings are guided nicely one after another along the line like beads drawn over a string. This result eve is to be expected, as far as no vortex "jumps off" the wire or "falls apart". For the wireless version Tesla however to his own surprise had to find out that more energy could be received, than his transmitter produced. The measured degree of effectiveness lay above 100 per cent! He therefore called his transmitter a "Magnifying Transmitter" (fig. 9.10). The further transmitter and receiver were away of each other, the further the received energy increased. Tesla inferred from this, that there had to exist free energy and that he had caught that too."

form pg.207:

" ... If the neutrinos for instance are just positively charged when leaving the transmitter electrode, than an electromagnetic force of attraction takes place, if the receiver electrode at the same time is negatively charged. The required operation with the same frequency and opposite phase guarantees that also the next moment, if both, the neutrino and the receiver, have changed their polarity, the electromagnetic attraction is preserved.

It is obvious, that strange neutrinos which fly past and by chance oscillate synchronously are as well attracted. In that way the power collected in the receiver capacitor will increase further and degrees of effectiveness of over 100% are obtainable. Tesla discharges the receiver capacitor timed with the frequency of resonance (fig. 9.9) and point to the difficulty of an exact keeping of the condition of synchronization. ... "

There is no quote from Tesla there, the increasing power at increasing distance from the transmitter is easily explained by Tesla
as well in the book Nikola Tesla and his work on alternating currents. And it goes like this - because there is a
current node = 0 volts at the ground plate at the base of the transmitter and the receiver is at the 1/4 Wavelength then the
voltage and power at the transmitter base is very low almost zero however the further from the transmitter you go and the
closer you get to the 1/4 wavelength and the receiver the higher the voltage and as a result the higher will be the current it can
cause and the higher the power that can be received.

The radiant energy receiver is what collected free energy and Tesla mentioned that it collected more energy during the night than
the day, I think from memory.

So anyway I shielded my receiver terminal much more effectively than Meyl and still powered a larger load with a residual
resonant rise.

I showed with a lighting setup I was experimenting with how the current into the ground is much increased by tuning to near
resonance a grounded system with an elevated capacitance.

Truth is that if Meyl had in fact measured valid OU or demonstrated "Scalar Waves" he would be very famous, a household name.

The math is all good if it leads to something, but Meyl has no special experimental results to go with his math.

..

I think you'll find Tesla called his system a Magnifying Transmitter because it magnified the voltage and current and power but he
never claimed any magnification of energy and I challenge you or anyone to show words from Tesla where he claims a
magnification of energy from his Magnifying Transmitter.

Read the book - "Nikola Tesla On his work with alternating currents". It contains Tesla's own words.

It's all there.

I don't get why people read the work of people who disrespect Tesla's legacy, rather than read Tesla's own words on the matter.

..

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #51 on: January 30, 2015, 12:01:15 AM »
Hi Farmhand. Nice experiment. It is a given that voltage magnification is not necessarily indicative of a power gain, let alone OU.
I haven't seen any video of Meyl's where he demonstrates measuring OU, so I can't really comment on that, but anyone can
potentially make measurement errors, even professors. I would have to know all the details about how they did
their measurements before I could draw any conclusion one way or the other about whether they really measured OU
or not. That is separate from Meyl's concept of scalar waves however. As I mentioned previously, I personally don't
know if there is such a thing as scalar waves or not, and I think a person would have to be quite good at advanced math
to be able to evaluate Meyl's mathematical analysis. I personally am not able to comment on his math.
All the best...

Thanks Void, but I think it only a demonstration and a rough one at that, but it shows Meyls hand waving "shielding the receiver terminal ruse" for what it is, showmanship !

I have a plethora of experiments and demonstrations with that pair of transformers and also some more with a smaller set.

I made my own circuit controllers ( DC choppers ) and constructed the coils so that many parts of the tuned circuits could be
tuned. I operated the transmitters and receivers close to or at resonance with sine waves shown at the terminals and the
receiver output coil.

I can achieve voltage - current and power magnification in the oscillating circuit due to resonance just as Tesla describes but on
a small scale.

I've run small motors, filament bulbs and such from the receiver and got output voltages up to several hundred volts on a
capacitor connected via a FWBR to the output coil with 12 volts input. All is expected and normal. I can use one small Tesla
transformer connected to a ground stake as a crystal radio with no external antenna except the ground stake and receive an
AM radio transmission from about 25 Klms away while inside the steel shed. I can excite two tuned receivers to power loads
from one Transmitter. All good fun and interesting.

Many of the demonstrated things Meyl points to as evidence of something special are easily explained as regular effects.

He needs demonstrated evidence to back up his math, math won't transmit energy it can only explain how or why if correct.

..

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #51 on: January 30, 2015, 12:01:15 AM »
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Offline Void

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #52 on: January 30, 2015, 04:12:35 AM »
Hi Farmhand. Good job on your tesla coil wireless power experiments. I've experimented with that
a bit as well, but not as much as you have. You have got some good results there. I have a little different
perspective than you in regards to people like Dr. Meyl, where they propose new ideas and new ways of looking at things.
It is easy for anyone to just dismiss such things out of hand and say they are definitely just mistaken or kooks or whatever,
but in the case where such a person does have a very solid and advanced educational background in a field related to
what they are talking about, it is not so easy to just quickly dismiss such a person as a complete kook, although many
people still do. Yes, Meyl could good be off the mark about certain things, but on the other hand, he could
be right about many things, or at least right about some of the things he is talking about.

As an example, I believe Meyl has talked about faster than light propagation of the 'scalar longitudinal waves', if I
remember correctly. It's been a while since I have gone through his stuff. Meyl's views about longitudinal waves
appear to be a new way of looking at and understanding 'near field' effects, if not more.  Meyl isn't the only academic/scientist who is
suggesting these sorts of things. Here is a link to and excerpt from a PDF file of a research paper from Orebro University
in Sweden. They have run experiments to analyze the speed of propagation of electric and magnetic fields around an antenna, at different
distances, as well as gravitational waves, and then analyzed the results. They came to the conclusion that within the near field
distance range they do propagate at superluminal speeds, but at distances greater than one wavelength they are propagating at
the speed of light. So Meyl may actually be on the right track about such things after all. ;) It is easy to dismiss things out of hand, but
sometimes you might just be dismissing something of real value if a person is too quick to dismiss things... A single research paper
by itself is not proof of anything, but it does potentially add some support to some of the things Meyl has been saying. :)

"Near-field Analysis of Superluminally Propagating Electromagnetic and Gravitational Fields
William D. Walker
Örebro University, Department of Technology, Sweden

Abstract
A near-field analysis based on Maxwell’s equations is presented which indicates that the fields
generated by both an electric and a magnetic dipole or quadrapole, and also the gravitational waves
generated by a quadrapole mass source propagate superluminally in the nearfield of the source and
reduce to the speed of light as the waves propagate into the farfield. Both the phase speed and the
group speed are shown to be superluminal in the nearfield of these systems. Although the information
speed is shown to differ from group speed in the nearfield of these systems, provided the noise of the
signal is small and the modulation method is known, the information can be extracted in a time period
much smaller than the wave propagation time, thereby making the information speed only slightly less
than the superluminal group speed. It is shown that relativity theory indicates that these superluminal
signals can be reflected off of a moving frame causing the information to arrive before the signal was
transmitted (i.e. backward in time). It is unknown if these signals can be used to change the past."
http://arxiv.org/ftp/gr-qc/papers/0304/0304090.pdf

Sounds like crazy stuff, but this research came from people who presumably are highly qualified in their field of research.

All the best...

Offline DROBNJAK

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #53 on: January 30, 2015, 11:33:49 AM »
I have a little different perspective than you in regards to people like Dr. Meyl, where they propose new ideas and new ways of looking at things. It is easy for anyone to just dismiss such things out of hand and say they are definitely just mistaken or kooks or whatever,
but in the case where such a person does have a very solid and advanced educational background in a field related to
what they are talking about, it is not so easy to just quickly dismiss such a person as a complete kook, although many
people still do.

Yes, Meyl could good be off the mark about certain things, but on the other hand, he could
be right about many things, or at least right about some of the things he is talking about.

We are on the same page here. People like Dr. Meyl spend whole life doing one thing. They are even paid while to do it. So they are the hardest ones to dismiss.

Thanks for that link, I am going to check that out.

Offline dieter

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #54 on: January 30, 2015, 01:18:11 PM »
"...causing the information to arrive before the signal was transmitted..."


OMG.  :o


Indeed, I like the sound of it. Now pls excuse me, I've got to check the Lotto numbers...  :)


BR




BTW. I think this is a good example for two things:  first of all, titles and degrees don't mean anything, even worse, univercities are the places to conserve l the current political and social model, that is the capitalistic semi-subtile enslavement of mankind. Second, the speed of light has nothing to do with time, time is an abstract invention of men, Einstein was wrong about "space time" and the fact that honoured, established scientists are seriously trying to discover a "time particle" shows that their titles and degrees don't mean anything.


But I could be wrong :) , that's how much open-minded I am.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #54 on: January 30, 2015, 01:18:11 PM »
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Offline pomodoro

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #55 on: January 30, 2015, 04:16:19 PM »
"...causing the information to arrive before the signal was transmitted..."


OMG.  :o


Indeed, I like the sound of it. Now pls excuse me, I've got to check the Lotto numbers...  :)


BR




BTW. I think this is a good example for two things:  first of all, titles and degrees don't mean anything, even worse, univercities are the places to conserve l the current political and social model, that is the capitalistic semi-subtile enslavement of mankind. Second, the speed of light has nothing to do with time, time is an abstract invention of men, Einstein was wrong about "space time" and the fact that honoured, established scientists are seriously trying to discover a "time particle" shows that their titles and degrees don't mean anything.


But I could be wrong :) , that's how much open-minded I am.

Sorry Dieter, but so far every attempt to prove Einstein was wrong has failed. Do you even understand the derivation of his special law of relativity?
Do you understand how Meyers garbage can be explained by standing waves?
Do you have any idea of what you are doing and saying?
Your lack of respect for proper education and dedication shows real ignorance. Achieve a thousandth of what Einstein did and maybe you will then make some sense. Come on, show us how these men with degrees are worthless, where is your proof?

Offline DROBNJAK

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #56 on: January 30, 2015, 05:59:59 PM »
Do you understand how Meyers garbage can be explained by standing waves?

If you can briefly explain how Meyl's ideas can be explained by standing waves, please do.

I am keen to increase my own understanding and I guess many others visiting here are.


Offline dieter

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #57 on: January 30, 2015, 11:59:45 PM »
Tho shall not confuse Meyl and Meyer... and Landski  ;D


Pomodoro, why do you suck up to the establishment so much, and if so, what are you doing in a forum named overunity? If you try to achieve overunity, which I hope, then you disagree with the fundamental "laws" of these stuffed, honored ones anyway.


There is no need to make me look like a stupid schoolboy, man. In fact it's insulting. Yes, I am a selfteached explorer. Just like edison, who brought us audio and lightbulbs.


Anyway, you ask what I have achieved? I actually violated the 2nd law of thermodynamics and built a device that is by the dfinition of Lord Kelvin a Perpetuum Mobile. In fact, it's running in this very moment beside me, as we speak, sotosay. You may not believe me, and I don't care.


BTW. Kelvin was the guy who also said that heavier than air flight is completly impossible. But of course, his 2nd law of TD is sacred...


I am not the only one who thinks Einstein was wrong about Spacetime. That's all I have to say to yoz.


BR


Offline pomodoro

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #58 on: January 31, 2015, 07:29:36 AM »
Dieter, I'm on the forum to discover new / hidden energy sources, not to go against the 'system'. I dont 'suck up to these guys' but I respect the work and dedication they give to science. Edison had great respect for them too, he employed many greats of the time, including Langmuir, Coolidge, Whitney to name but a few.  Einstein was regarded as a crackpot, so was Barry Marshall more recently. Guess what, because they proved that their discoveries were for real, they were accepted by the establishment and rewarded.  Real crackpots end up talking to themselves in the end, because they can't prove anything to anyone else.

Drobnjack, I was into Meyls thoeries about 12 years ago, when he was a hot topic on the web. I don't recall the standing wave  explaination from the radio engineers  exactly, but it had to do with a few of the experiments, especially the one where a signal can be detected in a metal box. One of the big objections to his experiments, is the fact that he connects the receiver to the transmitter with a wire. This is supposed to be the earth. In reality it becomes a transmission line to the receiver. Standing waves easily develop in this wire. No wonder the power to the receiver doesn't obey the inverse square law, it is directly connected!! Tesla transmitted power via ionization of the high altitude air, this guy uses low voltage , ionizes nothing and uses a direct wire to the receiver.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline DROBNJAK

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #59 on: January 31, 2015, 12:03:39 PM »
Drobnjack, I was into Meyls thoeries about 12 years ago, when he was a hot topic on the web. I don't recall the standing wave  explaination from the radio engineers  exactly, but it had to do with a few of the experiments, especially the one where a signal can be detected in a metal box. One of the big objections to his experiments, is the fact that he connects the receiver to the transmitter with a wire. This is supposed to be the earth. In reality it becomes a transmission line to the receiver. Standing waves easily develop in this wire. No wonder the power to the receiver doesn't obey the inverse square law, it is directly connected!! Tesla transmitted power via ionization of the high altitude air, this guy uses low voltage , ionizes nothing and uses a direct wire to the receiver.

@pomodoro Many thanks for explanation about standing waves.

We learn nothing and make no progress if we abandon the hard work of others.

Anyways, regarding that single wire between the transmitter and receiver that Dr. Meyl is using. I am not an expert, but the effect drops off severely if one intercepts the direct path between spheres with a hand. I appreciate criticisam about that single wire, but there is a drop-off as well.

Since I am only a rookie, I relay heavily on name dropping ;-).

In 1895 Lord Kelvin specifically traveled to New York to visit Tesla's lab and for Tesla to show him the effect of the scalar field. Later on Lord Kelvin developed his own version of Maxwell equations that was based around scalar field vertices. So Dr. Meyl was not the only one beating that path.

Here is a link to Lord Kelvin's paper: On the Generation of Longitudinal Waves in Ether

Has anybody tried to test this with bipolar Tesla coil? Than there would be no need for that single wire.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
@Farmhand

Those coils that you made are really nice.

Did you make them yourself?

What frequency were they tuned to?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #59 on: January 31, 2015, 12:03:39 PM »

 

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