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Author Topic: Are scalar waves BS?  (Read 37817 times)

Offline DROBNJAK

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2015, 06:36:11 PM »
I've explained what 'scalar' means in the [Reply #24 on: Today at 10:21:36 AM] right in this thread. There are examples as well.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2015, 06:36:11 PM »

Online Void

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2015, 06:43:11 PM »
I've explained what 'scalar' means in the [Reply #24 on: Today at 10:21:36 AM] right in this thread. There are examples as well.

Hi DROBNJAK. Yes, I read your comment. It contained some good info.
The discussion here is in regards to 'scalar waves' however. Without a
formal definition of what a scalar wave is supposed to be, preferably by the person who
originally coined the term, it seems there is not too much further to discuss. People seem to be actually mixing
up different concepts when they use the term 'scalar wave' as well. As I mentioned, a longitudinal wave
in a magnetic field or electric field, if such is possible,  would apparently not qualify as a 'scalar wave'.
We can't be sure though without a formal definition of 'scalar wave'. :D

P.S.
Bearden's ideas are considered by many to be fringe science, but at any rate here is a comment on
the concept of a 'scalar wave':
"Well, Bearden says that when Heaviside threw out the scalar part of the quaternionic EM equation, he unknowingly threw out the possibility of unifying gravitation with electromagnetism-- which has been a holy grail for scientists since Einstein himself wrestled with the problem. That's because the scalar part of the quaternion, according to Bearden, was the part that captured or modeled the "stress on the aether"-- which leads to curving/warping spacetime a la Einstein. Tom Bearden says we can unify gravity with EM, and convert back and forth between them, if we understand how vectors and scalars relate to one another and what the ramifications are. "
http://members.iimetro.com.au/~hubbca/scalar.htm


P.P.S. ;)
"From : " SCALAR TRANSLATORS " by Joseph John Misiolek - 05/02/91
        When coverting EM energy to SCALAR, what you are  actually doing
       is attempting  to  create  a  subtructure in which the energy is
       folded in on itself in such a  way that it manifests no external
       net effects  in the manner in which our current  test  equipment
       (single stage  interaction)  is  designed to detect, but rather,
       maintains all  of  its energy  within  the  substructure  itself
       (hyperspace), in other words, SCALAR WAVES.
 
       These types   of   waves  are  quite  capable   of   penetrating
       conventional forms   of   em  shielding  (Faraday  Cages)  while
       remaining quite invisible to standard  (single  stage) detection
       methods.
"
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/scalwfaq.htm


All the best...


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline DROBNJAK

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2015, 07:23:05 PM »
The discussion here is in regards to 'scalar waves' however. Without a
formal definition of what a scalar wave is supposed to be, preferably by the person who
originally coined the term, it seems there is not too much further to discuss. People seem to be actually mixing
up different concepts when they use the term 'scalar wave' as well. As I mentioned, a longitudinal wave
in a magnetic field or electric field, if such is possible,  would apparently not qualify as a 'scalar wave'.
We can't be sure though without a formal definition of 'scalar wave'. :D

Just imagine any one of the scalar values from examples I gave, to be acting as wave. For example density. If density starts changing in a periodic way, you get a sound or a longitudinal wave. Because fields are derivatives of the scalar, that means that wave in the scalar will produce waves in its derivative, the fields. But reverse would be true, as well. An oscillation in a derivative, will cause oscillation in a scalar.

Now, sound is a common example. But I wander wold that apply to temperature, which is scalar as well. A temperature of a light bulb oscillates with an AC frequency of 50Hz. Would that cause oscillation of a temperature at some distance from the light bulb? Just an idea for a very simple scalar field experiment.

Online Void

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2015, 08:11:19 PM »
Just imagine any one of the scalar values from examples I gave, to be acting as wave. For example density. If density starts changing in a periodic way, you get a sound or a longitudinal wave. Because fields are derivatives of the scalar, that means that wave in the scalar will produce waves in its derivative, the fields. But reverse would be true, as well. An oscillation in a derivative, will cause oscillation in a scalar.

Now, sound is a common example. But I wander wold that apply to temperature, which is scalar as well. A temperature of a light bulb oscillates with an AC frequency of 50Hz. Would that cause oscillation of a temperature at some distance from the light bulb? Just an idea for a very simple scalar field experiment.

Hi DROBNJAK. Thanks.  The experiment with temperature might prove interesting.
I understand the concept of longitudinal waves in regards to say sound, but it is more difficult for me to understand in
regards to electric and magnetic energy. Dr. Konstantin Meyl seems to have no problem with referring to
'longitudinal scalar waves'. Meyl has focused on the properties of what he calls longitudinal magnetic waves, but he
also refers to them in general as scalar waves. If magnetic and electric fields are not scalar fields, I am not sure why
he refers to magnetic longitudinal waves as scalar however.

If you are interested, you can read an overview of Meyl's idea of scalar waves in this PDF: 
http://www.petprotector.org/PDF/Scalar-Waves.pdf
Here's an excerpt:
"Vortex model
The Tesla experiment and my historical rebuild however show more. Such
longitudinal waves obviously exist even without plasma in the air and even in
vacuum. The question thus is asked, what the divergence E describes in this case?
How is the impulse passed on, so that a longitudinal standing wave can form? How
should a shock wave come about, if there are no particles which can push each
other?
I have solved this question, by extending Maxwell’s field theory for vortices of the
electric field. These so-called potential vortices are able to form structure and they
propagate in space for reason of their particle nature as a longitudinal shock wave.
The model concept bases on the ring vortex model of Hermann von Helmholtz,
which Lord Kelvin did make popular. In my books the mathematical and physical
derivation is described.""

Meyl outlines his mathematical derivation in this PDF, but the math is beyond my level of understanding.
If you have a good understanding of the math involved, maybe you can understand Meyl's mathematical derivation,
and see if it makes any sense to you.
All the best...



Offline DROBNJAK

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2015, 10:53:21 PM »
Yeah, I read Meyl's book, all 400 pages of it. As you say, its math heavy. There is no way around math, it gives you an insight.

Anyway, I was struggling with math as well, when, about two weeks ago, I stumbled on these animated videos. They didn't boggle me down with dozens of instructions, but explained all the vector algebra with nice, intuitive animations. I instantly understood the working principles and worked from there. Here they are:

Grad - Grad, Div and Curl (1/3)

What Is a Field? - Instant Egghead #42

Gradient of a Scalar Field - Dragonfly Education

What is a vector field?? Chris Tisdell UNSW

Gradient of a scalar field

And the unmissable classics:

AT&T Archives: Similiarities of Wave Behavior (Bonus Edition)

Tektronix - Transmission Lines

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2015, 10:53:21 PM »
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Online Void

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2015, 11:12:57 PM »
Hi DROBNJAK. Thanks for the video links. I will check them out when I get the chance.
That should definitely help in going through Meyl's writings.
All the best..

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2015, 02:51:28 AM »
Meyl is buddies with Dr Keshe, neither is to be trusted, Meyl points to voltage on the receiver as a indication of OU and I have not
seen any actual transmitter input and receiver output power/energy figures.

I myself with my pair of 12 volt Tesla transformers transmitted electricity via a single wire laying on the ground from inside one
metal clad shed to inside another metal clad shed not faraday cages but not far from it.

I got an output voltage of 24 volts with a small load (more than Meyl's 3 mm LED's) with only 12 volts input. Voltage magnification
is not OU. My setup could have been greatly improved with a few modifications and got much better efficiency but it would still
have been under unity and no need for "scalar waves" as the connecting wire is how the energy is transmitted. The receiver coil
could have been in a faraday cage and it would still work because the wire goes from transmitter to receiver. In Tesla's World
system the Earth would be the conductor replacing the wire in mine and Meyls experiments and the earth itself would be included
in the resonating circuit as with my experiment the setup was tuned to include the wire but rather than having two current nodes one at each transformer ground plate as in Tesla's arrangement mine and Meyl's setups has one current node somewhere on the
connecting wire. For a grounded system to work it would need to operate at some harmonic of the Earths resonant frequency
and enough energy would need to be input to cause a resonant rise on the receiver when tuned.

One of my experiments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1nfWnjufZo

Meyls experiments and claims are unimpressive to me.

Can I claim to have produced scalar waves because I can shield the receiver terminal and still receive energy from the transmitter ?
No of course not.

It's not a radio the, terminal is not a radio antenna it's an elevated capacitance, shielding it by line of sight from the transmitter terminal is a ruse.

Meyl has confused himself with the numbers so much he cannot see what is actually happening right in front of him. Or he is a scammer like Keshe. His kits are way overpriced.
..

And before anyone harps on me about the quality of my demonstration I would remind them that I am not trying to sell anything.
It was a simple quick demonstration to show I can do what Meyl can do. If his demo is watched closely I can see he demo is flawed. And he gives no power in out or energy in to out to be able to claim anything much at all.

..

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2015, 02:51:28 AM »
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Online Void

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2015, 03:26:14 AM »
Hi Farmhand. Nice experiment. It is a given that voltage magnification is not necessarily indicative of a power gain, let alone OU.
I haven't seen any video of Meyl's where he demonstrates measuring OU, so I can't really comment on that, but anyone can
potentially make measurement errors, even professors. I would have to know all the details about how they did
their measurements before I could draw any conclusion one way or the other about whether they really measured OU
or not. That is separate from Meyl's concept of scalar waves however. As I mentioned previously, I personally don't
know if there is such a thing as scalar waves or not, and I think a person would have to be quite good at advanced math
to be able to evaluate Meyl's mathematical analysis. I personally am not able to comment on his math.
All the best...


Offline DROBNJAK

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2015, 11:55:09 AM »
I wouldn't go that far to discount Dr. Meyl's results.

He has a Doctor degree, so he won't be talking BS easily. In addition to that he is a professor at a very reputable university in Germany. He devoted his professional life to EE. He would be well aware of all the pros and cons, as well as engineering details.  Not to mention that he has access to high quality instrumentation. I've seen a picture of the lab at his uni and they are loaded with Swiss made LeCroy oscilloscopes. LeCroy is just about one of the premium brands in scope market. He states that his students had repeated his experiments, even at distances far in excess of one wavelength.

Him using a voltage as indicator, might be just a logistic constraint, because he traveled from Germany to US to give that lecture and most likely didn't have a room in his luggage to carry oscilloscope.

But yes, measuring the input & output power is the biggest problem we face as experimenters. I thought of using DC motors attached to weights to measure the power output. But I need some advice here, because impedance mismatching can ruin the scheme.

Regarding the Faraday's cages, they leak easily. Metal shed is not good enough, despite valiant effort. A tiniest of gaps, in the Faraday's cage, is good enough to ruin the experiment. Here is a good experiment, about influence of gaps on Faraday's cages:

EMP Trash Can Faraday Cage Testing in Lab

Online Void

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2015, 04:13:39 PM »
Hi Dobnjak. You are right that different load impedances can affect efficiency.
If you use a carbon resistor as a load, you can then do power measurements using
different resistance values and find which resistor value gives the best efficiency.
If you have a specific circuit setup and schematics that you are testing with, I could offer
some suggestions on how to measure input and output power. Are you using Meyl's exact
demo circuit setup?

Sometimes someone being a professor doesn't necessarily mean they have good practical
experience doing measurements, such as say power measurements. Even very experienced scientists
and engineers still make use of a peer review process to help minimize the chance that they have overlooked
things, or made outright errors. We would hope that Dr. Meyl and his students made proper measurements,
but still I personally would have to see all the details of the circuit setup they used and how they made their measurements
before I could comment on whether I think they might have really measured OU or not. Someone being really smart doesn't 
necessarily mean that someone is always error free. Anyone can overlook things or make mistakes. :)

That video on faraday cages was really interesting. He was using quite a high frequency of 500 MHz, which is fairly short wavelength.
It would have been interesting to see if he repeated the same test over a range of frequencies to see the difference.

All the best...


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2015, 04:13:39 PM »
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Offline DROBNJAK

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2015, 04:35:25 PM »
@Void: ... If you have a specific circuit setup and schematics that you are testing with, I could offer some suggestions on how to measure input and output power. ...

Thanks.

I am only learning theory now, so I can minimize a number of uninformed assumptions I make. Plus, I do like learning physics.

Not much time for experiments, right now, unfortunately.

Offline fritz

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2015, 05:42:51 PM »
Even if Dr. Meyl is a "doctor", he has some BS track record......
I can verify his view of "scalar wave" by certain degree - but if it comes to OU and the explanation for the magnifying transmitter - I wouldnt trust him.
There are lots of things which can happen in near field oscillating environments.
The brightness of an led or even the idea that this could be an indication for something in this case is nonsense.
Because every voltage amplitude in such system relies on the local termination and impedance.
Even if I believe that this is a nice and efficient method of transfering energy - I doubt the stated "energy" amplification.
Working for a company designing highly sensitive metal detectors - I also know that you can model "near field" effects with maxwell equations.
Its lots of effort but it can be done.
A phase velocity "faster than light" is also something quite normal if we talk about waveguides - but has no practical implication.
He is a professor for power electronics, drive and control stages - not for rf and relativistic electrodynamics.

 


Offline DROBNJAK

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2015, 05:58:42 PM »
Dr. Meyl's extension of Maxwell's theory and maths is way above my head.

But what is interesting here, is that he meticulously read Tesla's lab notes and repeated Tesla's results.

Tesla claimed that when two of his magnifying coils were in resonance, at certain frequencies, the receiving coil started collecting energy from environment. Now that part is what I would like to verify. There is no OU, but some kind of environmental energy was harvested.

It seems that Dr. Meyl did some good work there.  Tesla claimed that he was collecting more during the day than during the night. So Dr. Meyl concluded that Tesla was collecting neutrinos coming out of the Sun.

Online Void

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2015, 06:03:54 PM »
But what is interesting here, is that he meticulously read Tesla's lab notes and repeated Tesla's results.
Tesla claimed that when two of his magnifying coils were in resonance, at certain frequencies, the receiving coil started collecting energy from environment. Now that part is what I would like to verify. There is no OU, but some kind of environmental energy was harvested.
It seems that Dr. Meyl did some good work there.  Tesla claimed that he was collecting more during the day than during the night. So Dr. Meyl concluded that Tesla was collecting neutrinos coming out of the Sun.

Interesting. Is that in Meyl's book? If so, do you have a page number?
I wonder if Meyl provided a reference in his book to specifically where Tesla stated this?
All the best...


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2015, 06:52:39 PM »
DROBNJAK's comments about Faraday cages are right on the money, and the problems get worse with higher frequencies. For really complete isolation you need a double-layer, completely sealed enclosure, with the two walls electrically isolated, and in some cases you even need to actively bias the "capacitor" formed by the walls, grounding one or the other of them to a really solid Earth ground (like a buried heavy conductor that surrounds the footprint of the cage) and put some voltage on the non-grounded wall. Any electrical feedthroughs into/out of the cage can leak, transfer RF, etc. Good ones are even lined inside with anechoic, conductive foam walls (like the kind used to package static-sensitive CMOS, etc). It's not a trivial exercise to set up a good HF Faraday cage.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Are scalar waves BS?
« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2015, 06:52:39 PM »

 

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