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Author Topic: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy  (Read 3501237 times)

hyiq

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7785 on: February 18, 2017, 08:57:55 PM »
Chris,

this simple little circuit as you call it, is not that simple to dissect as it contains much interacting signals / properties.
Sometimes i think it kind of "flips over" as i cannot get the 180° out of phase signals across the 1 Ohm resistors (they are in phase suddenly).
I will try to capture that situation.


Anyway, some confusion here:

 

With "LOne" you mean the 11 turn coil?
With "second Coil, LTwo" you mean the 7 turn coil?
These points i agree with (remind you that the current probe (green) induces some phase delay), but in your 2e post you say:

 

that 1st point is opposite as what you mention above, in a parallel circuit in LC resonance, the voltage and current are (should be) in phase.
And that is what we see happening allthough not exactly 0°, but i blame that on the current probes delay factor and the unusual influence of the bucking coil.


Your question on Negative Power Factor i have to study on as i don't know, perhaps some more knowledgeable people can step in here.

I will play around some more with this circuit.

Itsu



Hey Itsu - Yes it is a very simple little circuit that a lot can be learnt from. Yes, odd things happen in this circuit. Its worth remembering, Electromagnetic is Equal and Opposite, however we are getting well over 50% Efficiency - Why?

Sorry for any confusion, I have marked the MrPreva Circuit with L1 and L2 indicating the Coils, or Inductors L and the Number of them.

Yes, on this: "that 1st point is opposite as what you mention above, in a parallel circuit in LC resonance, the voltage and current are (should be) in phase."

I apologise, typically in an RLC or LC Circuit, when the Circuit goes into resonance, the Inductive Reactance (XL) will equal the Capacitive Reactance (XC). This means that neither XL or XC is dominating in the circuit, and the Phase angle will be 90 Degrees for a Resonant Circuit. See the below diagram.

However, in the MrPreva Circuit, we see that XL and XC are nearly Zero!!! Meaning we have no Phase Shift (Nearly) and that the Inductive and Capacitive components of the Input have been removed from the Circuit. This is an interesting but very explainable phenomena, we see exactly this in a transformer when a decent Load is applied!!!

  Look, we all really should spend some time on this: "Your question on Negative Power Factor i have to study on as i don't know, perhaps some more knowledgeable people can step in here."

I am no expert, I have spent a lot of time studying and experimenting on this, and still have a lot to learn.

But, if we ever see a Negative Power Factor, it means you have power coming back out of the Circuit at you, you are "Generating" Electrical Energy and its trying to return to your Source!

Itsu, your replication of the MrPreva Circuit is Excellent, first class!!! Thank You for sharing with everyone! I really hope others find value here as they should!!!

Question: Do you see now why this equation is important: ITotal = da+ / dt + da- / dt?

   Current ITotal = "Negative electrons flowing to the left (da-) contribute to the current flowing to the right (da+)"

There is such beauty in simplicity.

So my over all point is, we see Electromagnetic Induction, between these two Coils, LOne and LTwo, each field Opposes! Each Current Opposes. This is a Symmetrical Device, it is an Auto Transformer of sorts.

Now, all we have to do, it bring in a Third Coil, use it as an Input, and now we have an Asymmetrical System, where the Opposition on the Primary (Lenz's Law) is Counter-Acted by the two forces of the Secondary's.

   Simply: An Addition to Newtons Third Law: Action, Reaction and Counter-Reaction - Thus the Importance of the Number 3, a Non Symmetrical Number!


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

hyiq

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7786 on: February 18, 2017, 09:15:13 PM »
Chris,

Analyzing the input and output power levels of Itsu's scope shot in your post is very interesting.  For example, the input voltage is ~1.555v rms and the input current measured as shown is 5.84ma rms with a phase angle of ~20 degrees so, the input power is 1.555 x 5.84e-3 x cosine(20) = 8.53mw.

Pout1 is 412mv rms across 1 ohm for (.412^2)/1 = 170mw and Pout2 is 205mv rms across 1 ohm for (.205^2)/1 = 42mw for a total Pout = 212mw.  The COP = .212/.00853 = 24.85!!!!

Now a question for everyone, is this correct?  If not, why?

pm




I believe Itsu has already answered, but Volt Ampere Reactive vs Real power can be quite different, the Power inside the LC Circuit is being measured, and not the total Input to the Circuit. So the Cap and losses of it are not included as was mentioned, only the Vars in the Semmi Resonant Circuit, taking into account the ±20 Degree Phase Shift, which can be very much higher than the Real Power into the Circuit.


But, again, I am still learning too, so if you disagree, lets discuss why?


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

hyiq

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7787 on: February 18, 2017, 09:53:48 PM »

@ Itsu,

Last year I built many variations of bucking coil circuits which I tested for months but did not publicly share. Tests were done with and without resonance.
The more interesting effect was with resonance and at one point I thought I had OU.
However, after much more investigation I found the current probe was not measuring accurate results with circuits in resonance range.
There seems to be a very strong EMF emitting outwards from these circuits which may affect a current probe, which btw was the same one as you used in your last video.
It may not be the case with all but I would recommend you also add CSR probe to compare the two just to be safe.

Kind regards

Luc




@Luc - Measurement Error is easy to make. Even with expensive equipment. In saying this, and as you say, a CSR (Current Sensing Resistor) is a good comparison. Brad used a CSR and was still getting 118% Graham Gunderson 560% without a CSR, but using identical $1500 Current Probes along with very expensive Clarke Hess Watt Meters that do use a CSR arrangement, which verified the expensive Current Probes, so again, a lot more good results are coming forth, and it is mostly through "Understanding" that these results are achieved.


Once an understanding is achieved, the direction one needs move becomes more evident, but without this understanding, no direction is possible. Only guess work.


So, failure will be inevitable for some. Until the right frame of mind is obtained, the right understanding is achieved.


This technology is not to be Monetised, it wont happen for you, I know some here are very greedy and are doing their utmost to take what I am sharing, and make money from it, claiming it as their own. This frame of mind will result in failure.


What was Graham Gunderson asking? 2 Million Dollars?


No one is going to pay for this Technology! People will only want to learn and replicate it.


Too much Greed, Selfishness, I cant get over some people!!!


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


partzman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7788 on: February 18, 2017, 09:57:44 PM »



I believe Itsu has already answered, but Volt Ampere Reactive vs Real power can be quite different, the Power inside the LC Circuit is being measured, and not the total Input to the Circuit. So the Cap and losses of it are not included as was mentioned, only the Vars in the Semmi Resonant Circuit, taking into account the ±20 Degree Phase Shift, which can be very much higher than the Real Power into the Circuit.


But, again, I am still learning too, so if you disagree, lets discuss why?


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Chris,

I'm not able to say if I agree or disagree as I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to say in your statement above.  I would say however that if we analyze Itsu's circuit (Preva replication) with the resonant cap current accounted for, the real power developed in the secondaries will be less that the total power drawn from the generator including any negative energy back to the generator.  To confirm this,I will run some bench tests and sims to see what we have.  I have already shown the Preva circuit to be conservative but this was without any resonance of additional phase shifting.

pm   


hyiq

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7789 on: February 18, 2017, 10:16:30 PM »
Chris,

I'm not able to say if I agree or disagree as I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to say in your statement above.  I would say however that if we analyze Itsu's circuit (Preva replication) with the resonant cap current accounted for, the real power developed in the secondaries will be less that the total power drawn from the generator including any negative energy back to the generator.  To confirm this,I will run some bench tests and sims to see what we have.  I have already shown the Preva circuit to be conservative but this was without any resonance of additional phase shifting.

pm




The MrPreva Circuit as it is, is Not Over Unity. As I have already stated many times:




In L2, Using Ohms law, and also verifying the Phase angle Correction through a Resistance, being Zero Degrees, mentioned above, we can calculate the Power across the Resistance: Power P = Resistance R * Current I2 = 2.3 Ohms (2.2 + 0.1) * 0.54700816 Amps = 1.28925 Watts, which means that a Voltage V across the Resistance R is only 1.722 Volts, verified on the scope, but on the other side of the Inductor, there is 12,54 Volts present.

In L2, Power across the Resistance: Power P = Resistance R * Current I2 = 2.3 Ohms (2.2 + 0.1) * 0.23164969 Amps = 0.53279 Watts, which means that a Voltage V across the Resistance R is only 1.10699 Volts, verified on the scope, but on the other side of the Inductor, there is 12,54 Volts present.

So, the huge gains seen above, across each branch L1 and L2, are not Gains across the Resistance, the load. What is going on here, why are we seeing this Gain, but not in our Load? If the input is 2.2 Watts, and Loaded Output is 1.28925 Watts + 0.53279 Watts, we only see 82% efficiency across our Resistive Loads.

Why do we see what we do? Why do we have such a large Voltage Drop across the Inductor? Between 10.818 and 11.43301 Volts...

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


But, instead, I have said "A Lot Can Be Learned" from this Circuit! Why is it NOT Over Unity? Because it is still a Symmetrical System!

Now, when you said: "The COP = .212/.00853 = 24.85!!!!" this figure you are deriving is not correct. It is not the actual Input Power to the Circuit. This is incorrect.

Itsu did not give us the Input Current into the Circuit, only the Circulating Current inside the LC Circuit was given.

We all should already know this, and that's what I was implying in my above statement.


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


gotoluc

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7790 on: February 18, 2017, 10:17:58 PM »
@Luc

This technology is not to be Monetised, it wont happen for you, I know some here are very greedy and are doing their utmost to take what I am sharing, and make money from it, claiming it as their own. This frame of mind will result in failure.

No one is going to pay for this Technology! People will only want to learn and replicate it.

Too much Greed, Selfishness, I cant get over some people!!!

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Dear Chris,

From what you wrote I get the feeling you believe I'm into research to make money or profit. It even sounds like you think I would steal somone elses work to make money.

Is this what you believe?

Luc

hyiq

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7791 on: February 18, 2017, 10:34:59 PM »
Dear Chris,

From what you wrote I get the feeling you beleive I'm into reasearch to make money or profit. It even sounds like you think I would steal somone elses work to make money.

Is this what you beleive?

Luc




Hi GotoLuc - I know for sure, some here are in this for the monetary gain. This was my implication. Using Graham Gunderson as an example. E.G: His request for 2 Million Dollars for his experiment.

What I do know, is you broke the rules of my private forum when you shared information with Chet K about our private experiments. Which you agreed not to do on entry. At this point I stopped all contact with you and Tesla Energy Solutions.

It is worth noting here that some other things did also come up, through my investigations, that I found upsetting, I felt like I was being deceived, but I will not go into here.

I shut down the Forum as a result, and Wistiti and I decided to bring forward experiments publically. Which was our intention anyway after getting some replications under our belts.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

itsu

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7792 on: February 18, 2017, 11:04:34 PM »
Chris,

Thanks for clearing up the coils naming.

i however still am confused as i think you seem to mix up a series LC (see your impedance/Phasor diagram) and a parallel LC (which we have here).
In parallel LC circuit at resonance we have only a resistive load (maximum impedance, so minimum current) therfor NO phase difference, meaning 0°.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/parres.html


Anyway, i redid some measurements using the current probe (i compared it to a 1 Ohm resistor in the input lead which seems to agree) and it shows
that this way we have a more reliable outcome (no more "flip overs" seen).

At resonance (6.2KHz) input current and voltage are exactly "in phase", meaning 0° as it should be in a parallel resonant circuit.
Input voltage peaks and input current dips because of the maximum impedance at resonance.




Dieter,

I added a 220uF bipolar electrolytic capacitor to the 1uF cap as requested.
The resonance frequency dropped to about 380Hz but the currents through the coils seem to be more or less "in phase" instead of 180° out of phase.
For what it is worth.

Video here:  https://youtu.be/30oujoUF2Uc 

I want to try some further measurements (like with a hall sensor to measure the magnetic fields) before going to the next step (3th coil etc.).

 
Itsu
« Last Edit: February 19, 2017, 10:45:50 AM by itsu »

gotoluc

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7793 on: February 18, 2017, 11:15:24 PM »
What I do know, is you broke the rules of my private forum when you shared information with Chet K about our private experiments. Which you agreed not to do on entry. At this point I stopped all contact with you and Tesla Energy Solutions.

I shut down the Forum as a result, and Wistiti and I decided to bring forward experiments publically. Which was our intention anyway after getting some replications under our belts.


   Chris Sykesy
       hyiq.org


Dear Chris,

You can chose to make things sound tragic but how about the truth.

The truth is and you know it to be, I shared second hand information (from another person) with Chet K that had nothing to do with any technology you shared.

The details I shared was about an event that this second party thought had happened between you and another person.
Why did I share this with Chet... it was to help you get Chet off your back because he was fed up with your claims and nothing to show for.

Ended up what I shared (with Chet) wasn't true and it didn't help things between you and him.

Closing your private forum was your choice and had nothing to do with me other then coinciding with the event and the fact that shutting me out with the second party there was no one else other then wistiti participating in your private forum.

You know the above is all true and I have emails and other to back it.

My true intent (by sharing with Chet) was to help you but all it did is accelerate things (more pressure) for you.
This post will probably do the same!...  is this also going to be my doing as well?

I do wish you all the best and hope someone can find something usable in what you've been sharing for all these years.

Luc

gotoluc

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7794 on: February 18, 2017, 11:55:25 PM »
It is worth noting here that some other things did also come up, through my investigations, that I found upsetting, I felt like I was being deceived, but I will not go into here.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Please do share about anything you found to be upsetting or deceiving if it has to do with me as I have nothing to hide.
My research has always been freely given in hopes that one day something I find could help the less fortunate free themselves of energy slavery.

Sincerely

Luc

ramset

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7795 on: February 19, 2017, 12:25:28 AM »
Chris
Quote to Luc
What I do know, is you broke the rules of my private forum when you shared information with Chet K about our private experiments
end quote
--------------------------------
@Chris
never happened , this is a complete fabrication

I NEVER ASKED FOR or was ever given one dot or tittle of information from Luc on any experiments performed at your private group.

Zilch Zero Nada...

at the very least... you Owe Luc an apology

Chet K



hyiq

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7796 on: February 19, 2017, 12:43:49 AM »

Chris,

Thanks for clearing up the coils naming.

i however still am confused as i think you seem to mix up a series LC (see your impedance/Phasor diagram) and a parallel LC (which we have here).
In parallel LC circuit at resonance we have only a resistive load (maximum impedance, so minimum current) therfor NO phase difference, meaning 0°.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/parres.html


Anyway, i redid some measurements using the current probe (i compared it to a 1 Ohm resistor in the input lead which seems to agree) and it shows
that this way we have a more reliable outcome (no more "flip overs" seen).

At resonance (6.2KHz) input current and voltage are exactly "in phase", meaning 0° as it should be in a parallel resonant circuit.
Input voltage peaks and input current dips because of the maximum impedance at resonance.




Dieter,

I added a 220uF bipolar electrolytic capacitor to the 1uF cap as requested.
The resonance frequency dropped to about 380Hz but the currents through the coils seem to be more or less "in phase" instead of 180° out of phase.
For what it is worth.

Video here:  https://youtu.be/30oujoUF2Uc  (uploading another 20 minutes).

I want to try some further measurements (like with a hall sensor to measure the magnetic fields) before going to the next step (3th coil etc.).

 
Itsu




Hey Itsu - Yes, there are Parallel (Maximum Impedance) and Series (Minimum Impedance) Resonance Circuits. See Picture Below:

So, what's Impedance (Z), the Equation is: Z = R + jX

Where:
   Z is the Value of the Impedance
   R is the Resistance in Ohms
   j is the imaginary component
   X is the Reactance

So both Circuits still have a Value of Reactance (X), both Capacitive (XC) and also Inductive (XL).

So, I hope I can clear this up, there will be a 90 Degree phase shift, no matter weather Series or Parallel Resonance is achieved, see below Experiments. P.S: I did this rough, quick experiment just for you Itsu, I hope this is useful!





   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org


hyiq

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7797 on: February 19, 2017, 12:56:23 AM »
Chris
Quote to Luc
What I do know, is you broke the rules of my private forum when you shared information with Chet K about our private experiments
end quote
--------------------------------
@Chris
never happened , this is a complete fabrication

I NEVER ASKED FOR or was ever given one dot or tittle of information from Luc on any experiments performed at your private group.

Zilch Zero Nada...

at the very least... you Owe Luc an apology

Chet K



I have never told any lies, ever!

http://overunity.com/15395/partnered-output-coils-free-energy/msg491630/#msg491630

Read and weep Chet K, for it is you that owes GotoLuc an apology, for pressing him for Information. In the process, through a complete circle of incomplete dialogs... Storeys got mixed up and falsified. Which You Chet K were part of!!!


   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

gyulasun

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7798 on: February 19, 2017, 01:19:55 AM »
Hi Chris,

I can see three problems.

1) your 4.92 uF and 0.24 H should resonate on 146.46 Hz and not on your FG's input of 270 Hz (if you set the FG to 270 Hz, that is)

2) your chosen current measuring point in the parallel resonance circuit is not correct: you actually check the coil current and not the input current going into the parallel LC circuit. In this circuit you should insert the current sensing resistor in series with the generator, say in its GND wire that goes to the bottom of the paralleled LC , and not in series with the coil

3) your chosen voltage measuring point in the series LC circuit is not correct: you actually check the phase shift of the capacitor. In this circuit the test point for the voltage is the direct FG's 'hot' output itself.

Gyula

ramset

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #7799 on: February 19, 2017, 01:31:27 AM »
Chris
Quote
I have never told any lies ever
end quote

Lets get into this shall we ?

please start a thread for this as you have been intimating and outright calling many persons here thieves and liars controlled By
Mark Golds and even recently said Stefan Hartmann controls or Manages this nefarious figment of your imagination

or was the most recent example of Brad working under this make believe group not a Lie ??

you owe Brad an apology too


Chris
the truth will set you free

you have made countless false accusations against many members here

I see your link above leads to edited content
« Last Edit: September 13, 2016, 02:03:59 AM by EMJunkie »

a quite typical example !!




START A NEW THREAD

or maybe just man up with your claims/errors here and get this behind us once and for all

its your call