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Author Topic: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy  (Read 3500361 times)

tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5505 on: October 06, 2015, 06:52:19 AM »
I am not in agreeance on this one Brad.

It is the Load that determines the Phase Shift for "!off the shelf!" Transformers.

A Resistive Load - should always be zero Degrees or close to it.
An Inductive Load - Should be a Current Lag.
A Capacitive Load - Should be a Voltage Lag.

This should be true on most all circuits/Transformers but not all. Some resistors (Wire Wound mostly) can have Inductive (XL) and Capacitive (XC) Components to them. This is mostly a High Frequency thing and very rarely seen to be a major problem at low frequencies.


  Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

Well-maybe a time for a rethink, as my loads have been the same in every test-the light bulbs, which are mostly resistive with maybe a very slight inductive traight due to the curly element. The winding configuration in this regard determonds the curret phase shift between primary and secondary coils. There is a reason for this, and we will get into that soon.

Question for you all.
Hook an AC cap to an AC current source-dose a magnetic field exist with the E field between the cap plates?.

Magluvin

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5506 on: October 06, 2015, 07:14:13 AM »
E field or not, if current flows through the plates of a cap, then there is mag field developed accordingly by each plate.

Say if we have 2 lengths of wire laying next to each other, the will have capacitance.  Now, we connect our input to the wires at the same end of the pair. There would be a cancellation of mag field of the wires. But if the input is made at one wire at one end of the pair, and the other input to the other wire at the other end of the pair, the mag field would combine.

With the connections made at the same end, the wires would have opposite current flow directions, and the input connected at opposite ends of the pairs, the current in the wires would be in the same direction and have more inductance. So the best way to make a cap would be to connect the source to the same end of the pair of wires to cancel out induction so the cap can work as fast as possible.

Ive read about mag fields developed with a capacitor, probably designed to have input at opposite ends of the wire example.

Mags

EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5507 on: October 06, 2015, 07:16:34 AM »
Well-maybe a time for a rethink, as my loads have been the same in every test-the light bulbs, which are mostly resistive with maybe a very slight inductive traight due to the curly element. The winding configuration in this regard determonds the curret phase shift between primary and secondary coils. There is a reason for this, and we will get into that soon.

Question for you all.
Hook an AC cap to an AC current source-dose a magnetic field exist with the E field between the cap plates?.

Tinman - I see where you're going. I misunderstood you in your prior posts.

Re; the question - any Charge in motion constitutes a Magnetic Field - This we already know. The Magnetic Field is Concentric around the Charges Equatorial Plane. There is a fair few that do not believe in "Displacement Current" - Its not a simple topic to understand unless one is up with the art...

Information that one could not spend a night reading: http://www.ivorcatt.com/em.htm

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org

tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5508 on: October 06, 2015, 12:00:20 PM »
E field or not, if current flows through the plates of a cap, then there is mag field developed accordingly by each plate.

Say if we have 2 lengths of wire laying next to each other, the will have capacitance.  Now, we connect our input to the wires at the same end of the pair. There would be a cancellation of mag field of the wires. But if the input is made at one wire at one end of the pair, and the other input to the other wire at the other end of the pair, the mag field would combine.

With the connections made at the same end, the wires would have opposite current flow directions, and the input connected at opposite ends of the pairs, the current in the wires would be in the same direction and have more inductance. So the best way to make a cap would be to connect the source to the same end of the pair of wires to cancel out induction so the cap can work as fast as possible.

Ive read about mag fields developed with a capacitor, probably designed to have input at opposite ends of the wire example.

Mags

Cool,now apply this to transformer winding configurations,and figure out what type of winding configuration would cause a magnetic coupling between the two winding's,and what type of winding configuration would cause an E field coupling(if any). Also take into consideration capacitive coupling-oh wait,that !is! electric field coupling between windings.
Mag's says-Quote:  if current flows through the plates of a cap, then there is mag field developed accordingly by each plate :D

So lets say it is the E field that is creating an EMF in the secondary,and E field coupling is capacitive coupling,and when we have a current flowing through a capacitor,there is(as Mags says) a magnetic field ;)

minnie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5509 on: October 06, 2015, 12:08:17 PM »
 
  When dose current flow "through a capacitor"?
              John.

tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5510 on: October 06, 2015, 01:20:31 PM »
 
  When dose current flow "through a capacitor"?
              John.

Current will flow through a capacitor until there is no potential difference across that capacitor.
A displacement current can flow when the voltage across the capacitor varies with time.

gyulasun

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5511 on: October 06, 2015, 01:32:46 PM »
Current will flow through a capacitor until there is no potential difference across that capacitor.
A displacement current can flow when the voltage across the capacitor varies with time.

Hi Brad,

My take on this that no current flows through at any time but the charging and discharging currents bring or take the charges as the outside circuit defines.

Gyula

poynt99

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5512 on: October 06, 2015, 02:21:00 PM »
Well, is it still the E field that induces the sec with a low permeability core?

Mags
Yes, absolutely.

Let's take that thought to the extreme then; what if you have a bifilar-wound cylindrical coil, and you use one pair as your primary, and one pair as your loaded secondary, and you energize the primary. Will there be induction from the primary to the secondary?

Will it be the E field generated by the primary that induces an emf in the secondary? Yes.

If you remove the core in our original example and leave the two coils in their original positions, how much emf will be induced in the secondary? Why?

poynt99

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5513 on: October 06, 2015, 02:30:54 PM »
See, Its hard to comprehend that the mag field only exists in the core.

When the primary is energized, are not the mag fields developed at and within the wire itself?  Where else in the universe is it that when a current is sent through a wire that the field from that wire begins and originates elsewhere and is non existent around the wire itself?  ??? ::) ;)

Mags
Of course the magnetic field originates at the wire, and there will be a tiny tiny bit of field on the outside of the coil. But even without the core, the flux is concentrated on the inside of the coil, and you have a relatively nice uniform (straight) B field in there. A high permeability core concentrates that flux even more and so the ratio of flux inside to outside the core is even greater than with an air core.

poynt99

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5514 on: October 06, 2015, 02:38:08 PM »
Question for you all.
Hook an AC cap to an AC current source-dose a magnetic field exist with the E field between the cap plates?.
Yes. And I read somewhere that it was in fact measured/proven.

Current does not flow through a capacitor; there is a changing E field (assuming the voltage across the cap is changing), which produces the changing B field as shown in this diagram. Exactly opposite to the case with our coils and core. In the case of a capacitor, a high permittivity dielectric serves the exact same purpose as the core in our coil; but it concentrates the E field.

tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5515 on: October 06, 2015, 02:39:35 PM »
Hi Brad,

My take on this that no current flows through at any time but the charging and discharging currents bring or take the charges as the outside circuit defines.

Gyula

Ok,so what about a DC current flow through a simple circuit-like that depicted below?.
When the switch is closed,will current flow through the cap?

gyulasun

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5516 on: October 06, 2015, 02:51:25 PM »
Well, current will flow in the circuit when switch is closed, the bulb will bright up for a moment and get fade out as the capacitor charges up.  But current will not flow through the capacitor (like through the bulb), charges accumulate in the capacitor till 5V equlibrium sets in.
The charge current is made "visible" in this circuit.  8)

Gyula

tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5517 on: October 06, 2015, 03:00:38 PM »
Yes. And I read somewhere that it was in fact measured/proven.

Current does not flow through a capacitor; there is a changing E field (assuming the voltage across the cap is changing), which produces the changing B field as shown in this diagram. Exactly opposite to the case with our coils and core. In the case of a capacitor, a high permittivity dielectric serves the exact same purpose as the core in our coil; but it concentrates the E field.

Current dose flow through a capacitor,and that current is displacement current.
A changing electric field causes a changing magnetic field,and thus causes a displacement current flow through the capacitor.

tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5518 on: October 06, 2015, 03:02:06 PM »
Well, current will flow in the circuit when switch is closed, the bulb will bright up for a moment and get fade out as the capacitor charges up.  But current will not flow through the capacitor (like through the bulb), charges accumulate in the capacitor till 5V equlibrium sets in.
The charge current is made "visible" in this circuit.  8)

Gyula
Current dose flow through a capacitor in the form of displacement current.
See last comment of mine above.

poynt99

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #5519 on: October 06, 2015, 03:09:10 PM »
Current dose flow through a capacitor,and that current is displacement current.
A changing electric field causes a changing magnetic field,and thus causes a displacement current flow through the capacitor.
In the sense of current and how it "flows" through a conductor, no it is not the same.

It is a separation of charges across the plates of the capacitor. It is called "displacement current" because charges are being displaced.

The resulting B field occurs in the gap between the plates, so there are no free electrons (a conductor) to cause to flow there.