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Author Topic: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy  (Read 3500815 times)

picowatt

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2880 on: May 22, 2015, 03:12:04 PM »
So to explain the two scope shot's below.

I have wound another winding around the outside of the core,so as it has the same length of wire to that of the inner winding's-->(not the same amount of turns-same amount of wire).I am using two identical incandescent bulbs as the load on each output coil-both running at the same time.
The first scope shot shows the blue trace across the primary winding,and the yellow trace across the output coil that is wound around the outside of the core-right along side the primary winding.
As you can see,the output power to the load go's to zero when the primary coil stop's ringing

The second scope shot is with the yellow trace moved from the load on the outer winding to the load(globe) on the inner winding. You can clearly see that even after the primary coil stop's ringing,a current is still flowing from the output coil that is in the center of the core.

The next step is to wind a coil around the outside of the core that has the same number of turn;s to that of the two coils on the inner core-->which is 30 turns,so as our amp turns are equal.. At the moment,the outer output coil has only 10 turn's,as that is all i could get with the length of wire that equaled the length of wire on the inner core coils.

But regardless,it can be clearly seen that the inner coils are recieving a changing magnetic field for a far longer period to that of the outer coil. This transformer is far more efficient than a standard toroid transformer-in that it uses far less wire to achieve a greater output. It also shows that the magnetic field exist 100% of the time toward the center of a toroid,while the magnetic field around the outside of the transformer core ceases to exist when current stops flowing through the primary winding.

Tinman,

Have you checked the DCR/continuity of your inner windings since the potting process?

PW

tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2881 on: May 22, 2015, 03:26:38 PM »
Tinman,

Have you checked the DCR/continuity of your inner windings since the potting process?

PW
First thing i did when i came out of the mould PW.
Both are isolated from each other,and continuity is good.
It was a liquid pour casting,and is a non conductive material.

picowatt

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2882 on: May 22, 2015, 03:38:27 PM »
First thing i did when i came out of the mould PW.
Both are isolated from each other,and continuity is good.
It was a liquid pour casting,and is a non conductive material.

Tinman,

Are you certain the DCR/continuity is still OK? (i.e., check it again).

The reason I ask is that the traces from the inner windings look "cap coupled" which could be an indication of an open winding.

Possibly consider placing the inner winding in series with a battery and your bulb to verify DC continuity under a bit of a load.

PW

tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2883 on: May 22, 2015, 04:06:13 PM »
Tinman,

Are you certain the DCR/continuity is still OK? (i.e., check it again).

The reason I ask is that the traces from the inner windings look "cap coupled" which could be an indication of an open winding.

Possibly consider placing the inner winding in series with a battery and your bulb to verify DC continuity under a bit of a load.

PW
Just went and checked PW,and both are good. Hooked globe to 12 volt battery via each winding ,and we have 12v @ 620mA-and a bright globe. ;)
The wire sizes are .55mm and .61-so preaty hard to break. The liquid steel is also non contractive when drying.
There is something very different about the magnetic field at the center of a toroid to that of the out side field.
This one is looking good so far,and one must remember-im not using the best core material. My next casting will be a metglass core,which i hope will bring even better result's. Tomorrow i will be winding a 30 turn coil around the outside of the core,so as it matches the turn ratio to that of the inner winding's. I will then conduct the same test,and post result's.

picowatt

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2884 on: May 22, 2015, 04:46:22 PM »
Just went and checked PW,and both are good. Hooked globe to 12 volt battery via each winding ,and we have 12v @ 620mA-and a bright globe. ;)
The wire sizes are .55mm and .61-so preaty hard to break. The liquid steel is also non contractive when drying.
There is something very different about the magnetic field at the center of a toroid to that of the out side field.
This one is looking good so far,and one must remember-im not using the best core material. My next casting will be a metglass core,which i hope will bring even better result's. Tomorrow i will be winding a 30 turn coil around the outside of the core,so as it matches the turn ratio to that of the inner winding's. I will then conduct the same test,and post result's.

Tinman,

Wierd...

It sure sounds like your DCR/continuity is OK. 

Just to humor me, consider repeating the test similar to those of your previous traces (primary drive/scope connections the same), but with a battery in series with the secondary/bulb.  Use a lower voltage battery (1.5 to 3 volt) sufficient to see the DC offset on the trace but keeping the DC saturation of the core to a minimum.  This will allow us to watch the DCR/continuity while being driven similarly to previous tests.

I wouldn't blame you for not bothering with the above test if you feel 100% confident that your windings are not opening up during your tests.  Although I do admit this open trace possibility sounds like it is rapidly becoming a "dead horse", those secondary traces sure look consistent with cap coupling somewhere (all connections, test leads, probes, and scope inputs verified?...) and I would want to rule that out 100% before going further. 

Also, I am assuming that one side of the primary and one side of the secondary are electrically connected via the scope probe grounds.  Consider, while repeating your test, connecting together the leads from the primary and secondary winding being used for the scope probe ground connections.  That is, twist one of the primary and one of the secondary leads together and use that junction for both scope grounds.

I would then consider repeating your tests while measuring the bulb current using a low inductance/resistance CSR in series with the bulb.  Connect one end of the CSR to the interconnected primary/secondry winding junctions (as above where both scope probe grounds are connected) and connect the other end of the CSR to the bulb.  Probe the CSR/bulb junction.

PW

tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2885 on: May 22, 2015, 04:59:14 PM »
Tinman,

Wierd...

It sure sounds like your DCR/continuity is OK. 


 



PW
Quote
Just to humor me, consider repeating the test similar to those of your previous traces (primary drive/scope connections the same), but with a battery in series with the secondary/bulb.  Use a lower voltage battery (1.5 to 3 volt) sufficient to see the DC offset on the trace but keeping the DC saturation of the core to a minimum.  This will allow us to watch the DCR/continuity while being driven similarly to previous tests.

Do you want the positive of the battery on the high side,or low side to see the negative offset better?.

Quote
I wouldn't blame you for not bothering with the above test if you feel 100% confident that your windings are not opening up during your tests.  Although I do admit this open trace possibility sounds like it is rapidly becoming a "dead horse", those secondary traces sure look consistent with cap coupling somewhere (all connections, test leads, probes, and scope inputs verified?...) and I would want to rule that out 100% before going further.


Happy to do so.

Quote
Also, I am assuming that one side of the primary and one side of the secondary are electrically connected via the scope probe grounds.  Consider, while repeating your test, connecting together the leads from the primary and secondary winding being used for the scope probe ground connections.  That is, twist one of the primary and one of the secondary leads together and use that junction for both scope grounds.

Happy to do so.
The scope grounds are common,but there is no notable difference to either scope trace when i disconect either ground from either coil.

Quote
I would then consider repeating your tests while measuring the bulb current using a low inductance/resistance CSR in series with the bulb.  Connect one end of the CSR to the interconnected primary/secondry winding junctions (as above where both scope probe grounds are connected) and connect the other end of the CSR to the bulb.  Probe the CSR/bulb junction.

Will do so tomorrow,but bed time now lol.

picowatt

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2886 on: May 22, 2015, 05:07:55 PM »
Just went and checked PW,and both are good. Hooked globe to 12 volt battery via each winding ,and we have 12v @ 620mA-and a bright globe. ;)
The wire sizes are .55mm and .61-so preaty hard to break. The liquid steel is also non contractive when drying.
There is something very different about the magnetic field at the center of a toroid to that of the out side field.
This one is looking good so far,and one must remember-im not using the best core material. My next casting will be a metglass core,which i hope will bring even better result's. Tomorrow i will be winding a 30 turn coil around the outside of the core,so as it matches the turn ratio to that of the inner winding's. I will then conduct the same test,and post result's.

Tinman,

When potting, consider using spaghetti over your secondary leads and a wrap or two of tape over the secondary windings and covering the spaghetti ends coming off the inner core.

I've had potting issues in the past (SMT PCB's) where I ended up using a silicone conformal spray coating prior to potting. 

Even low shrink/swell potting compounds have "some" shrink/swell, so there remains some inherent stress within.  Additionally, there is also stress from mismatched thermal COE's.  These stresses/internal movements are very small and tend to produce micro-cracks in wires and components.  I had a small 100mHy choke on a series of potted boards that produced very weird and sporadic failures traced back to potting stresses.  The choke would act like there was a capacitor in series with it when it would intermittently fail.  A conformal silicone pre-coat eliminated the issue.

PW

gotoluc

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2887 on: May 22, 2015, 05:21:48 PM »
Hi Brad,

great experiment idea!   thanks for sharing.

It would be interesting to see what an AC input will do instead of pulsed DC.
If you have a audio amplifier you could use your signal generator on the input of the amp and your toroid primaries on the output.
You could start with a sine wave input and sweep the frequencies to see if it performs any different then with pulsed DC.
You could also attache you scope to the primary using a shunt to measure voltage, current (across shunt) to see phase angle.

All the best in your experiments and thanks for sharing

Luc

synchro1

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2888 on: May 23, 2015, 04:04:23 AM »
I found the use of a "Bucked Coil" secondary in Bruce's latest "Self oscillating Circuit" video interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU8NjL1lomQ

shylo

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2889 on: May 23, 2015, 10:31:15 AM »
Hi Tinman, Do the inner windings operate on either primary, but probably at different frequencies?
Also do both operate at the same time?
Where do you get that putty ,I'd like to try this.
Thanks artv

shylo

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2890 on: May 23, 2015, 10:36:26 AM »
Sorry just seen where you say both inner windings are loaded.
Funny how things can be missed so easily.

tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2891 on: May 23, 2015, 10:54:36 AM »
@ shylo
The steel putty is called Devcon liquid steel. It is a two part epoxy resin mixed with iron filings-very magnetic,and easy to work with.

Here is a video of the transformer in action-also now has an outer wound secondary for comparison to the inner windings.

There can be no doubt-->the magnetic field at the center of a toroid remains far longer and more powerful than that of the field on the outside of the core.

I am now going to carry out some test using the inner windings as the primary coil,and the outer windings as the secondary coils(output coils).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87Lgu4lNCa8

shylo

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2892 on: May 23, 2015, 12:44:48 PM »
Hi Tinman, That was very cool. I wish you would of had another bulb connected to the other inner winding.
When you wound the inner torrid did you wind half with one coil and the other half for the second, or did you wind one all the way around and then the second on top of the first?
Also I wonder what would happen if you had say ten or twenty inner winds ,or two or three inner cores with multiple coils.
I'm in Canada so I wonder if JB weld is similar to your putty, It's called liquid steel.
Thanks for the video much appreciated.
artv

tinman

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2893 on: May 23, 2015, 12:58:08 PM »
Hi Tinman, That was very cool. I wish you would of had another bulb connected to the other inner winding.
When you wound the inner torrid did you wind half with one coil and the other half for the second, or did you wind one all the way around and then the second on top of the first?
Also I wonder what would happen if you had say ten or twenty inner winds ,or two or three inner cores with multiple coils.
I'm in Canada so I wonder if JB weld is similar to your putty, It's called liquid steel.
Thanks for the video much appreciated.
artv
Both winding were wound on together around the center core-30 turns. 1 x .55mm wire,and 1 x .61mm wire.

Here is the liquid steel i use--it is not cheap,and i think iron filings and fiberglass resin would be better,and easer to work with. This is what i will be making my next core from.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EPOXY-PUTTY-DEVCON-PLASTIC-STEEL-A-500GM-/151663489247?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item234fd930df#ht_2574wt_988

EMJunkie

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Re: Partnered Output Coils - Free Energy
« Reply #2894 on: May 23, 2015, 04:06:11 PM »

Power is reactive in two phase regimes of current through a circuit branch relative to voltage across a circuit branch:  45 degrees to 135 degrees, and 225 degrees to 315 degrees.  Within the ranges of 315 degrees to 45 degrees and 135 degrees to 225 degrees power is resistive and not reactive.


@MarkE - Can you provide some reliable references to show this does in-fact apply to AC Reactive Power - I can find no relation to your statement and AC Power.

   Chris Sykes
       hyiq.org