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Author Topic: U?-SCREWD  (Read 25804 times)

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: U?-SCREWD
« Reply #75 on: February 09, 2015, 12:00:47 AM »
Webbie wrote  I prefer to waste my time and efforts on things that interest me,,
not sure how everyone pastes other comments into the post but my point was that if a patent is not perused then it opens the door for someone to obtain the patent and prevent further enjoyable exploration. 
I also believe it is about location, location, location.  I read somewhere that in Germany there is not a 1 year wait that once it is posted someone can apply at that time.
I am in the western US not sure were you are from?

Another way to "quote" is to just add the word quote in brackets at the start, ([])  and then, at the end of the quote use brackets again with /quote inside the brackets.

This is how folks reply to a long post point by point.  So, you hit the quote button instead of reply, and then you can manipulate the quote.../quote inside brackets to make your reply.

Bill

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: U?-SCREWD
« Reply #75 on: February 09, 2015, 12:00:47 AM »

Offline webby1

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Re: U?-SCREWD
« Reply #76 on: February 09, 2015, 06:56:07 PM »
As long as you don't see imaginary errors just to feel alright, that's fine  :)

I do sometimes actually,, that is I think an interaction might have a negative piece that I am missing,, so I try and find it and change things to make it there,, so I build stuff as well because if it is only imaginary then I can not build to see it,,  that one works both ways :)

Here is some more data generated by the spreadsheet,, just in case you like looking at numbers.

I took the system and stopped every 5 degrees and have them all in the spreadsheet,, the torque arm moments, the forces the averages the totals,, all that stuff.

Offline dieter

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Re: U?-SCREWD
« Reply #77 on: February 10, 2015, 03:53:29 AM »
Actually, to be honest and I hope you don't mind, I'll rather wait for the summary :)
Back in time I was tortured with Excell spreadsheets ;) until they were banned by the Geneva Convention, along with the chipmonks christmas song and white tennis socks  ;D

Then again, some people may enjoy it very much.


BR

Offline webby1

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Re: U?-SCREWD
« Reply #78 on: February 10, 2015, 10:34:47 PM »
See,, if I did not think I was wrong I would of stopped looking!

I found a large error in my spreadsheet,, I used sine instead of cosine when trying to figure out the CoG arm length from center,, well I was thinking 30 when it was a 60 kind of thing.

Now it is showing as a loss,, but it still gets the counter balance needed,, more to look for I guess.

Offline webby1

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Re: U?-SCREWD
« Reply #79 on: February 10, 2015, 11:18:17 PM »
I just went and double checked my testbed,, it is still using the old numbers for balance,, not the new larger numbers.

I guess I am back to the drawing board for the shift in CoG of the water.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: U?-SCREWD
« Reply #79 on: February 10, 2015, 11:18:17 PM »
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Offline dieter

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Re: U?-SCREWD
« Reply #80 on: February 11, 2015, 06:42:38 PM »
I think this goes for all the projects in here: if it was easy, it would have been invented already long time ago.
Therefor the drawingboard is always a useful tool to rethink, learn and understand.


BR


Offline webby1

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Re: U?-SCREWD
« Reply #81 on: February 11, 2015, 07:03:47 PM »
Well,, when you find one thing that is really messed up,, you tend to find more :)

When burning an inch,, remember you are burning an inch,, shees that one is a stupid mistake.  The center of my wraps are 558.8mm,, the wheel I am using has a 1\2 inch lip,, burning an inch from that edge and then pulling to the center is not a good way of doing it when you are not paying attention so much,, then when you have that number in your head you just might see it every time you check.

However,, fixing those so far is bringing the loss closer to what I have measured as far as the added weight goes,, now to reset the head height and try it all over again.

By the way,, I have seen that it is these kind of errors that make people think they "have it",, when what they have is a measurement error :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: U?-SCREWD
« Reply #81 on: February 11, 2015, 07:03:47 PM »
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Offline bw100007

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Re: U?-SCREWD
« Reply #82 on: February 11, 2015, 07:38:00 PM »
Quote
I took the system and stopped every 5 degrees and have them all in the spreadsheet,, the torque arm moments, the forces the averages the totals,, all that stuff.
Ok I am starting to get the bigger picture of how yours is going to work from your excel sheet. 
Are you providing the torque arm moments for a screwed unit or from the pivot point between the 2 screwds? 
Just so I can get a picture in my brain screwd A runs front to back and screwd B runs back to front is this true or false?
  Can you give  a brief description of the timing of the rotation around the pivot.  looks like a screwed has to rotate X wraps of rpms to pump the head up high enough to release it to the other screwed unit every 180 of rotation around your pivot point. 
Sorry if this is a little confusing of a question but your excel does not label the pivot point or the screwd units.

Offline webby1

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Re: U?-SCREWD
« Reply #83 on: February 11, 2015, 08:20:01 PM »
The torque arm moments are from the pivot for the main arm to the CoG of the water.

False.  They both are fixed to the main arm.

The front to back direction of the water flow is determined by the wrap direction relative to rotation direction.

Each screwd unit is attached at the end of the arm.  The arm has the pivot in the center between the 2 screwd units.

When you rotate the arm one time and having the wraps secured to the arm they will make one revolution,, that is just how it works :)

The wraps are "primed", that is they are rotated until they have all the head pressure, and the water\air is all the way up the wraps and discharge pipe.  At this point you can holed the units from turning and keep the water and air standing up in both the wraps and the discharge pipe.

After the wraps are primed then one rotation of the arm will provide one rotation of the wraps and will expel one discharge unit of water and air.

The wraps do not turn freely on the main arm,, they are attached to it.  If you take a gear and attach it to the end of an arm that you are going to rotate around a pivot,, then if you put a mark on that gear and watched the mark as you rotated the arm the mark will move from on top over to the side down to the bottom and up to the other side as you rotate that arm, relative to gravity and the gear, you are not "turning" the gear so to say but it is being turned by the arm motion.  It is making an orbit around the pivot.

One revolution of the wraps will discharge one unit of water and one unit of air.  It takes a certain amount of revolutions (turns) to fill the discharge pipe with air\water and it takes a certain number of wraps to build the pressure in the discharge pipe relative to the pressure built within each wrap.

In screwd the pressure is determined by the reduction in volume of the wraps, and the "head" of the water in each wrap,, water NOT being compressible maintains the same volume but the air being compressible is forced into a smaller volume, thus an increase in pressure.  That increase in pressure needs to have something to push against so that it can be created,, that is what lifts the air\water up the discharge pipe.  This also kind of shows that the air\water in the discharge pipe is providing an input to the system.

So,, the "head" of each water packet standing up within each wrap adds together in series and they all are pushing against the pressure of the water in the discharge pipe,,, BOTH are needed and work together to allow for the rotational input to raise the water.

Offline webby1

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Re: U?-SCREWD
« Reply #84 on: February 11, 2015, 09:52:17 PM »
With the corrections in my spreadsheet and a slight reset to the testbed this is what I get.

Fairly close I think.

angle   calc     actual

H   0.010   0.006
15   0.010   0.009
30   0.011   0.012
45   0.014   0.015
60   0.019   0.018
75   0.037   0.024

The 6g at Horizontal actually raised a little bit and lowered the head line by a small amount,, about 1 to 2 degrees.

They all pretty much stayed within a pencil line of the angles needed both for the wrap and the arm.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: U?-SCREWD
« Reply #84 on: February 11, 2015, 09:52:17 PM »
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Offline webby1

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Re: U?-SCREWD
« Reply #85 on: February 11, 2015, 11:00:29 PM »
This is funny.

I can hit the 39g at 75 degrees only in one position,, I can add the weight fairly close to what is called for only over about 1\4 cycle,, then I only need 6g to make things turn,, then the next 1\4 cycle I need to build up the weight,, then back to the 6g.

The calculated value is 37g by the way.

So,, when the "head" is up on the inside and the wrap is down at 75 BBDC is when I need the 39g added onto the mount axle for the wrap,, that is where I have added the weight while the wrap should be "lite"

I was taking my measurements with the water shifted to the outside and the wrap going up from horizontal,, so I thought it all should be the same but checked anyway,, it is not,, now to make better observations for a complete rotation.

I knew already that the heavy spot is at TDC and BDC,, not horizontal as some might think,, but I did not think that the weight needed would not be the same coming up from BDC.

What I am saying is that I thought the added weight needed would simply be the reverse coming up from BDC as I need to use going from horizontal up to TDC.

Maybe I just have it all wrong and am resuming things incorrectly.

I have 3g weights that I am using,, so that is why they are all 3g apart :)

Offline webby1

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Re: U?-SCREWD
« Reply #86 on: February 11, 2015, 11:29:24 PM »
just as a quickie I have the wrap down at 45ABDC,, I have added 6g to the counter balance and it is balanced sort of,, that is the 6g have raised the wrap up higher than the 45 degrees.

Not sure if this matters but I am setting the head shifted value in the wrap and then rotating the arm and the wrap for the angle I am testing at,, I made a crude degree wheel for each one and then I am using a piece of tape to hold the wrap to the arm and that piece of tape is on the arm pivot side of the wrap.

I noticed something when I had water in the wrap and blew it off as the wrap not being balanced itself,, so I balanced it really close and then filled it up with 44g of water and placed it back onto the arm.

What I noticed was that the thing wanted to rotate around and stop with the wrap on the other side from where I am testing it from,, that is why I thought it was just out of balance and fixed it.

With the wrap up and going down on the "lite" side I need 24g to balance at 75 degrees,, added to the wrap mount axle,, then it gets less and less as I bring the arm down to horizontal.

Any thoughts as to why?????

Offline webby1

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Re: U?-SCREWD
« Reply #87 on: February 12, 2015, 07:45:58 PM »
sometimes a testbed that is not "perfect" is a good thing.  Sometimes it might let you see something interesting.

Offline dieter

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Re: U?-SCREWD
« Reply #88 on: February 12, 2015, 11:57:05 PM »
Besides, a lot of inventions have been made accidently, from a testbed that was "not good", so you never know what's next.


BTW. I'm off for a break..
BR


 

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