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News announcements and other topics => News => Topic started by: SeaMonkey on December 01, 2014, 08:12:40 PM

Title: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 01, 2014, 08:12:40 PM
Vaccinations are, unfortunately, not as effective as they've
been claimed. (http://www.healthfreedoms.org/vaccines-dont-work-malignant-mumps-in-mmr-vaccinated-children/)

It is necessary to verify the efficacy of any vaccination before
permitting ourselves and family to be victimized.  Some
vaccinations can be deadly.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 02, 2014, 08:26:28 AM
The Vaccine Illusion (http://therefusers.com/refusers-newsroom/vaccine-illusion-new-book-by-ph-d-in-immunology/#.VHyw_Dn00vQ) by Dr. Tetyana Obukhanych,
an immunologist.

Some professionals are well aware of the dangers.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: ramset on December 02, 2014, 05:36:38 PM
Sea Monkey
its good to be informed ,lest one become DuPeD...


and as we know there is controversy and Crime surrounding recent queries into
Vaccines and Autism....


it always pays to pay attention,,
the investment can yield life changing returns.


thanks for starting this topic ,it may not be what we ultimately do here.
but it effects us all.


Chet
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 09, 2014, 10:00:13 PM
Whooping Cough vaccinations in Cape Cod,
Massachusetts. (http://www.naturalnews.com/047930_whooping_cough_vaccinations_exemptions.html)

China suspends newborn vaccinations. (http://www.naturalnews.com/047928_hepatitis_B_vaccines_infant_death.html)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 09, 2014, 10:02:19 PM
Quote from: ramset
Sea Monkey
its good to be informed ,lest one become DuPeD...

Correct.  And correct. ;)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 10, 2014, 03:14:15 AM
Vaccinations are, unfortunately, not as effective as they've been claimed. (http://www.healthfreedoms.org/vaccines-dont-work-malignant-mumps-in-mmr-vaccinated-children/)
Sadly that article was written by someone who is terribly stupid.

It's not actually a study, so much as a case report.  There were seven cases of complicated mumps in the south of France.    This is not a "epidemic" in the normal sense of the term as there are few cases occurring over a year. If you had read the study - which you didn't and neither did the writer of the article.  You would know that they actually don't know what the cause here is.  They speculate that this could be a new strain or it could simply be the result of lower coverage. 
Quote
It is necessary to verify the efficacy of any vaccination
We do this, it's part of the serology.  I always find it interesting that people who want to talk about the lack of effectiveness of vaccines don't seem to understand what they are postulating.   See unlike every stupid thing you might replace vaccines with - vaccine effectiveness is (during development) determined by measuring seroconversion.  That is, the production of antibodies based on the presence of antigens.   If you want to doubt that seroconversion is strongly correlated with disease resistance then you also have to explain why seroconversion happens.  Do you think it's some accidental side effect?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 10, 2014, 04:43:03 PM
Deep within that maze of crazy the aforementioned article actually does attempt to imply that antibodies are uncorrelated (or unnecessary) for disease resistance.  However it fails to cite a study to support this assertion and it doesn't really seem to explain what antibodies are for or why they would correlate with disease resistance in other cases...and then it flops back into the mumps case report.

How does anyone read this stuff and not think the writer is crazy?  I mean it seems to imply that antibodies are not a part (or a significant part) of the immune system and then just moves on from this Nobel Prize material without justification.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 10, 2014, 09:01:06 PM
Quote from: sarkeizen
...
How does anyone read this stuff and not think the writer is crazy?
...

Your statement above is a very persuasive clue to
your state of mind;  a well indoctrinated state of
mind.  Cognitive Dissonance rages unabated in
today's world of Mind Control and Brainwashing. :o

Ah well, in due time even that stubborn rejection
of evidence which points to serious problems with
vaccinations will give way to Truth.  Providing of
course that the mind is still functional... 8)

Why flu shots are the greatest medical fraud in history. (http://www.naturalnews.com/047942_flu_shots_medical_fraud_vaccine_quackery.html)

 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 10, 2014, 10:22:33 PM
Your statement above is a very persuasive clue to
your state of mind;  a well indoctrinated state of
mind.  Cognitive Dissonance rages unabated in
today's world of Mind Control and Brainwashing. :o

Ah well, in due time even that stubborn rejection
of evidence which points to serious problems with
vaccinations will give way to Truth.  Providing of
course that the mind is still functional... 8)

Why flu shots are the greatest medical fraud in history. (http://www.naturalnews.com/047942_flu_shots_medical_fraud_vaccine_quackery.html)
I note that you very often use NaturalNews as your reference.  NN has a number of problems, one of which is playing very fast and loose with the facts.  The article that you linked is an example.  Adams fails to distinguish between multidose and single dose flu vaccine.  He fails to distinguish between metallic mercury and mercury compounds and between different mercury compounds.  Single dose flu vaccine does not contain mercury.  Multidose containers of flu vaccine contain small amounts of thimerosal a methyl mercury compound.  About a third of flu vaccine by dose is distributed in multi-dose form and so contains thimerosal.  So first, one can get flu vaccine with no thimerosal at all:  Get a single dose vaccination.  Second, thimerosal is not metallic mercury.  It is a compound that the body readily passes.

Why do such things matter?  Well, let's take another chemical that in its pure form has a very high toxicity:  Chlorine.  Exposure to high concentrations of chlorine gas has a very high fatality rate.  The gas burns the linings of among other things the lungs. It was used to horrible effect in WW1.  However, certain chlorine compounds such as potassium chloride and sodium chloride are quite benign and are ingested by the entire population in large amounts.  The mercury compound found in vaccines is thimerosal.  Adams does not address thimerosal toxicity.  He implies that thimerosal is nasty poison because a constituent material is mercury.  He is at best badly misinformed and at worst intentionally spreading misinformation that encourages people to make bad personal health decisions.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 10, 2014, 10:30:22 PM
Your statement above is a very persuasive clue to
your state of mind;  a well indoctrinated state of
mind.  Cognitive Dissonance rages unabated in
today's world of Mind Control and Brainwashing. :o
I wonder which of us indoctrinated.  Well, I gave an argument based on demonstrable science and you just made sweeping generalizations.  Isn't that interesting?
Quote
Ah well, in due time even that stubborn rejection
of evidence which points to serious problems with
vaccinations will give way to Truth.  Providing of
course that the mind is still functional... 8)
Well I was able to produce a pretty reasonable argument as to why the writer of the article you regurgitated a) Didn't know what they were talking about and b) had not read the study they were quoting.  That's a pretty good indication of a functional mind.  Now if you only could produce an actual argument we might know that your mind is functional.  :)
Quote
Why flu shots are the greatest medical fraud in history. (http://www.naturalnews.com/047942_flu_shots_medical_fraud_vaccine_quackery.html)
Well this article is a pretty good example of the opposite of thinking. Like a lot of things on Natural News it makes a lot of broad claims but nothing really approaching a cogent argument.  How are vaccines "the greatest medical fraud in history"?  Because some contain, as advertised thiomersal?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 11, 2014, 12:10:53 AM
sarkeizen,

Your 'demonstrable science' may be seriously
contaminated.

Not all within the Medical Community would
agree with you. (http://www.amazon.com/Thimerosal-Evidence-Supporting-Immediate-Neurotoxin/dp/1632206013)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 11, 2014, 12:28:41 AM
Quote from: MarkE
...
Adams does not address thimerosal toxicity.  He implies that thimerosal is nasty poison because a constituent material is mercury.  He is at best badly misinformed and at worst intentionally spreading misinformation that encourages people to make bad personal health decisions.

Americans are famous for their 'bad personal health
decisions.'  The American Diet chief among them.

Not content with hazarding the American People, we
export our Junk Food world wide.  All for the Love of
Money.

Some of the elements in their pure form are terribly
toxic.  Fortunately, in the cases you cited, those compounds
are when reasonably ingested beneficial to health.

Compounds of Mercury are a different animal,
however.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 11, 2014, 12:53:53 AM
While this article (http://www.theorganicprepper.ca/the-fda-gets-in-womens-panties-reusuable-menstrual-pads-to-be-subject-to-4000-a-year-in-extortion-fees-12092014) has nothing directly to do with
vaccinations it does address toxicity and the
Food and Drug Administration.

The United States bureaucracy gets crazier by
the day... ::)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 11, 2014, 03:01:18 AM
So the issue was whether Adams and his NN report was making a fair representation of the facts or not, with his provocatively titled article:  "Why flu shots are the greatest medical fraud in history" and we get:
Americans are famous for their 'bad personal health
decisions.'  The American Diet chief among them.

Not content with hazarding the American People, we
export our Junk Food world wide.  All for the Love of
Money.
I say you lost the thread there.
Quote

Some of the elements in their pure form are terribly
toxic.  Fortunately, in the cases you cited, those compounds
are when reasonably ingested beneficial to health.
So here you agree that compounds of elements can have completely different chemical and therefore biological effects than the elements alone.  Ergo Adams' failure to distinguish between elemental mercury and compounds of mercury undermines his claims.  Ergo Adams' failure to specifically address the compound of mercury used in about 1/3 of vaccine doses undermines his claims.  But then you launch off with this:
Quote

Compounds of Mercury are a different animal,
however.
Where is your evidence that all compounds of mercury in any amount cause physical harm?  This is above and beyond the fact unaddressed by Adams' that over two thirds of flu vaccination doses do not contain any mercury compounds at all.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 11, 2014, 05:11:02 AM
Quote from: MarkE
So here you agree that compounds of elements can have completely different chemical and therefore biological effects than the elements alone.  Ergo Adams' failure to distinguish between elemental mercury and compounds of mercury undermines his claims.

Where is your evidence that all compounds of mercury in any amount cause physical harm?

This is an easy research project.  Nay, it is not
my evidence;  rather it is acknowledged scientific
truth regarding the toxicity of compounds of Mercury. ::)

Even in High School Chemistry classes in the late
50s it was taught that elemental Mercury, the
metal, was relatively non-toxic and safe to deal
with at ordinary temperatures.  It becomes unsafe at
elevated temperatures where its vapor pressure becomes
substantial.  On the other hand, there are virtually no
compounds of Mercury which are non-toxic or safe to
ingest.  Mercury accumulates within the body in various
compound forms and gradually causes life hazarding
conditions to develop.  Lead Poisoning occurs in a similar
fashion. :o

Check it out.  Five minutes of research should verify the
nature of the problem with Mercury. :(

It would probably be very wise to steer clear of any government
propaganda which attempts to establish the opposite. ::)

Perhaps the World's worst case of Mercury Poisonings
occurred in Japan. (http://www1.umn.edu/ships/ethics/minamata.htm)

Wikipedia article. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_disease)

 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 11, 2014, 07:47:49 AM
This is an easy research project.  Nay, it is not
my evidence;  rather it is acknowledged scientific
truth regarding the toxicity of compounds of Mercury. ::)

Even in High School Chemistry classes in the late
50s it was taught that elemental Mercury, the
metal, was relatively non-toxic and safe to deal
with at ordinary temperatures.  It becomes unsafe at
elevated temperatures where its vapor pressure becomes
substantial.  On the other hand, there are virtually no
compounds of Mercury which are non-toxic or safe to
ingest.  Mercury accumulates within the body in various
compound forms and gradually causes life hazarding
conditions to develop.  Lead Poisoning occurs in a similar
fashion. :o
References???  Because the CDC asserts that the body eventually completely eliminates the ethylmercury in Thimerosal and therefore no mercury from Thimerosal accumulates.  http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Concerns/Thimerosal/thimerosal_faqs.html  Can you point to any peer reviewed studies that show long term accumulation of ethylmercury?
Quote

Check it out.  Five minutes of research should verify the
nature of the problem with Mercury. :(

It would probably be very wise to steer clear of any government
propaganda which attempts to establish the opposite. ::)

Perhaps the World's worst case of Mercury Poisonings
occurred in Japan. (http://www1.umn.edu/ships/ethics/minamata.htm)

Wikipedia article. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_disease)
According to your reference above:

Quote
Quote
The Episode

Minamata is located on the Western coast of Kyushu, Japan's southernmost island (see map). Its disturbing story begins, perhaps, in the 1930s, as the town was continuing to shed its heritage as a poor fishing and farming village. In 1932 the Chisso Corporation, an integral part of the local economy since 1907, began to manufacture acetaldehyde, used to produce plastics. As we know now, mercury from the production process began to spill into the bay. Though no one knew until decades later, the heavy metal became incorporated into methyl mercury chloride: an organic form that could enter the food chain.
Those people were poisoned by exposure to methyl mercury.  Thimerasol does not contain methyl mercury.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: profitis on December 11, 2014, 10:53:40 AM
According to wikipedia thimerasol is very toxic by inhalation,ingestion @mark E.it metabolises to other shit in the liver eg ethylmerury,not a far cry from methylmercury
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: ramset on December 11, 2014, 04:10:59 PM
When it comes to Autism ,there is no room for arrogance ,intellectual or otherwise , and certainly no room for cover ups or altering data.

1 in 64 children [and rising] is a completely unacceptable statistic .


Taking a stance that "we Know" what causes or does not cause Autism Pryor to serious investigation  would be the epitome of irresponsible behavior .


reprehensible to say the least.....


Chet
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 11, 2014, 06:02:57 PM
Your 'demonstrable science' may be seriously contaminated.
You're changing your argument.  I mean if you had one - just vomiting links isn't exactly saying very much.  My argument was about the absolute MORON who wrote the original posted article which implies that antibodies don't strongly correlate with disease resistance.  I further implied that only an idiot would take this at face value - which you apparently did. :)
Quote
Not all within the Medical Community would
agree with you. (http://www.amazon.com/Thimerosal-Evidence-Supporting-Immediate-Neurotoxin/dp/1632206013)
How about you provide an ARGUMENT instead of links?  Make a clear statement about what you mean and how some evidence supports it.  Then I'll destroy it. Sound good? :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 11, 2014, 06:35:05 PM
Taking a stance that "we Know" what causes or does not cause Autism Pryor to serious investigation  would be the epitome of irresponsible behavior .
However we do know to a rather high degree of certainty what *doesn't* cause autism.  That would be Thiomersal.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Madeo on December 11, 2014, 06:35:15 PM
We know that Thimerosal is 50% mercury and we also know that mercury is a potent neurotoxin. I find it appalling that doctors used to give vaccines with thimerosal to children especially newborn babies. I would not be surprised that it is linked to Autism although it is hard to prove especially when the people that were suppose to investigate it is most likely funded by Pharm. companies and/or FDA. However, it really doesn't take a PHD or a rocket scientist to know that  Thimerosal/mercury is dangerous.


It could be one of the reasons why we don't produce people like Tesla, Einstein, Keely, etc....  I know we keep talking about Tesla, but I find it amazing that he could build stuff with the materials he had available which is primitive by our standards today.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 11, 2014, 06:41:05 PM
We know that Thimerosal is 50% mercury and we also know that mercury is a potent neurotoxin.
We also know that if you believe that the diagnosis rate of autism is due to an increase in incidence then thiomersal is very, very, very likely to be unrelated.
Quote
I find it appalling that doctors used to give vaccines with thimerosal to children especially newborn babies.
Why?  It's a completely reasonable adjuvant. 
Quote
However, it really doesn't take a PHD or a rocket scientist to know that  Thimerosal/mercury is dangerous.
Apparently it takes a mathematician to properly calculate risk.  At 0.5 mcg you are probably inhaling a similar dose when you spend an hour in a dentist's office and definitely when eating a tablespoon of tuna.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Madeo on December 11, 2014, 08:12:02 PM
As i said before,  it doesn't take a PHD or Rocket scientist to know that Thimerosal/mercury is a potent neurotoxin.  It may be "normal" or "tolerable" to adults, but babies aren't. Their brains are still developing and anything that will interrupt during this process will likely have long term effects. Do you really feel comfortable injecting your baby with a substance that contains a neurotoxin ??   Their vaccine isn't a single dose only.  Since birth to an age of 2 years old,  they get a whole bunch of them. Dose after dose after dose of vaccines that have mercury contents is simply flat out dangerous and irresponsible. 


There is no such thing as a safe level of mercury. Any doctor or scientist who tell you otherwise needs their license revoked !!










Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 11, 2014, 08:50:44 PM
According to wikipedia thimerasol is very toxic by inhalation,ingestion @mark E.it metabolises to other shit in the liver eg ethylmerury,not a far cry from methylmercury
The CDC in the link I already provided claims that the body completely eliminates ethylmercury, and that thimerosal in the quantities contained in multiple use vaccine is therefore safe.  I offer you the same opportunity as SeaMonkey:  come up with peer reviewed data that shows that ethyl mercury accumulates as methyl mercury does.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 11, 2014, 08:51:28 PM
As i said before,  it doesn't take a PHD or Rocket scientist to know that Thimerosal/mercury is a potent neurotoxin.  It may be "normal" or "tolerable" to adults, but babies aren't. Their brains are still developing and anything that will interrupt during this process will likely have long term effects. Do you really feel comfortable injecting your baby with a substance that contains a neurotoxin ??   Their vaccine isn't a single dose only.  Since birth to an age of 2 years old,  they get a whole bunch of them. Dose after dose after dose of vaccines that have mercury contents is simply flat out dangerous and irresponsible. 


There is no such thing as a safe level of mercury. Any doctor or scientist who tell you otherwise needs their license revoked !!
It takes reliable evidence.  Where is yours?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 11, 2014, 09:01:21 PM
When it comes to Autism ,there is no room for arrogance ,intellectual or otherwise , and certainly no room for cover ups or altering data.

1 in 64 children [and rising] is a completely unacceptable statistic .


Taking a stance that "we Know" what causes or does not cause Autism Pryor to serious investigation  would be the epitome of irresponsible behavior .


reprehensible to say the least.....


Chet
Chet we should take great care with our children.  As with all problems, it is important to address them in order of significance.  MMR and polio used to cause devastating damage.  Rubella in particular caused terrible birth defects. 

Let's use real, reliable data to decide how to best protect our children.  Wakefield who started this panic has been fully discredited.  And BTW according to the CDC:  MMR vaccine does not contain ANY mercury.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 11, 2014, 09:17:19 PM
it doesn't take a PHD or Rocket scientist to know that Thimerosal/mercury is a potent neurotoxin.
You have a knack for using many words and saying nothing.  What does "potent neurotoxin" mean?  Do you mean it's as bad as lead?  Nope in fact it is orders of magnitude safer than lead.  Is it as bad as organophosphates?  Nope.  Still orders safer.
Quote
Their brains are still developing and anything that will interrupt during this process will likely have long term effects.
a) How do you know anything is interrupted?
b) How do you know that the slightest interruption (whatever that means) is going to have a long term effect?
Quote
Do you really feel comfortable injecting your baby with a substance that contains a neurotoxin ??
Absolutely.  In the same way that most parents feel comfortable letting their babies ingest a hepatotoxin at over one hundred thousand times the dosage of mercury they are getting in a vaccine.
Quote
Their vaccine isn't a single dose only.  Since birth to an age of 2 years old,  they get a whole bunch of them.
...and if by 2 years they have had more than two tablespoons of tuna at any one time.  They have been given more mercury than all of them put together.
Quote
Dose after dose after dose of vaccines that have mercury contents is simply flat out dangerous and irresponsible.
Nope.
Quote
There is no such thing as a safe level of mercury. Any doctor or scientist who tell you otherwise needs their license revoked !!
a) Scientists don't have a licence.
b) There is a dosage of mercury for which there exists no meaningful body of evidence which correlates it to any known illness.
c) In fact there have been studies on blood mercury levels in children who had likely ingested mercury from fish (from 12 months to 7 years) and there was actually an slight IQ increase (probably not due to the mercury).  The average blood level was slightly higher than that of a vaccine. Hence your idea that even one molecule of Hg is dangerous is probably wrong.

Please KNOW SOMETHING before you speak.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 11, 2014, 09:33:39 PM
Mercury Poisoning (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_poisoning)

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 11, 2014, 09:56:07 PM
Mercury Poisoning (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_poisoning)
200 mcg/L  is the level considered for poisoning according to the Wiki. 6 mcg/L is considered the high side of normal.  A vaccine has 0.5 mcg - even an infant which has 0.25L of blood would only have 2mcg/L of Hg for a period of time until it is excreted.  However usually the first vaccination is at 12 months.  Which means a blood volume of approximately 0.8L which means about 0.625 mcg/L.

So according to the Wiki article there's little chance of a vaccinated child of having much more than a normal level of mercury.  Any chance you're going to make an actual argument or are you just going to keep vomiting links?  Could you at least READ them before you post? :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on December 11, 2014, 10:06:48 PM
I stopped getting my children immunized years ago after looking at the what I considered to be the facts. First there seems to be a real issue with quality control and in Canada one batch down East contained tainted virus which everyone involved admitted would have literally infected the users with the disease. This was noted by Health Canada as well as many other agencies concerned with the poor quality of vaccine coming out of the good old USA.


There are also major concerns published by the European union with the toxicity of the "fillers" used in said vaccines and as some of you know they have partially embraced ultra-low level testing or bottom up testing as some call it. This is where a substance is considered safe at the "safe" level however at very much lower levels measured in parts per billion it can and has proven to be toxic to the human body. This work was noted by an American journalist I believe and it is a big problem because it means our version of WHIMIS or safe exposure levels is completely wrong. It means we need to re-test every single substance known to man and nobody wants to go there for obvious reasons.


We also have actual data which is surprisingly rare concerning the actual number of people who are effected or die from being immunized. In many cases the data is withheld or inaccurate as noted by researchers and journalists. At other times it was noted that many countries do not even track the side effects concerning immunizations. What I can tell you is that the Canadian agencies seem to take this matter seriously as I was involved with reporting a possible side effect from an immunization concerning someone I know.


The numbers suggest in some area's which may relate to specific batches the immunizations have caused major side effects relating to death and or permanent damage. The numbers are not good and may in some cases may exceed 5%. One must also consider that the World Health Organization declared polio eradicated from the Earth over a decade ago. That is there are no cases of polio, now if it does not exist then why would anyone put themselves at risk to get immunized?. Why we may as well get immunized against fairies and unicorns if this is the case.


I researched the science journals coming out of Europe which I believe are much less bias than those from the North America. As well their idea of "health care" and the "quality" standards of what we put in our bodies is light years ahead of North America. For instance in new homes the standard for make up air (fresh air) in Europe is 100% while in Canada/USA it is only 5%. It is no wonder people are getting sick because they spend most of their time indoors breathing air polluted with household chemicals. All of my houses have systems designed by me with at minimum 100% make up air 80% of the time as a rule.


I have no problem with vaccines because they are a proven technology however we are not talking about there effectiveness we are talking about the toxic fillers used and the quality of the materials used in the vaccines. It is simply a sign of the times where psychotic people place profit margins ahead of quality and safety.


I am an Engineer and my wife a registered nurse and we decided the tangible risks are simply too great. It's actually kind of funny that I had a run in with a health nurse not long ago and found her completely ignorant to the actual facts concerning immunizations, I mean my children were more informed than she was which is again a sign of the times. I made her look stupid because she was and I have no problem with that, you see I know many people personally who actually work in the health care industry (doctors and nurses) and believe me it is nothing like what you are told. The level of complete and utter incompetency is mind boggling and a hospital is most definitely the last place on earth you want to find yourself in my opinion.


So we must decide for ourselves and make informed choices, the science journals from anywhere but North America are a good place to start because in my opinion our system is tainted and biased. You need to talk with real people in the system who know the facts concerning the levels of risk involved.


AC

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Madeo on December 11, 2014, 10:41:08 PM
It takes reliable evidence.  Where is yours?


Reliable evidence?  Ingest some mercury for me and we'll find out.  I'll record the data.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 11, 2014, 10:51:46 PM
First there seems to be a real issue with quality control and in Canada one batch down East contained tainted virus which everyone involved admitted would have literally infected the users with the disease.
Cite please.  Also how does one incident mean "a real problem"?
Quote
however at very much lower levels measured in parts per billion it can and has proven to be toxic to the human body.
Please cite a medical journal.
Quote
We also have actual data which is surprisingly rare concerning the actual number of people who are effected or die from being immunized.
Which data?  How is it compiled.  How is COD determined?
Quote
The numbers suggest in some area's which may relate to specific batches the immunizations have caused major side effects relating to death and or permanent damage. The numbers are not good and may in some cases may exceed 5%.
Way too much waffling.  Exactly what is the bound and exactly where is this data from?  Please be specific.
Quote
One must also consider that the World Health Organization declared polio eradicated from the Earth over a decade ago.
Wrong.  Polio still exists in eight countries in 2014.  We don't restrict travel and since polio has no cure and can have severe outcomes.  The rational thing to do is immunize.
It is on the list to be phased out though.

Quote
I researched the science journals coming out of Europe
Doubtful
Quote
For instance in new homes the standard for make up air (fresh air) in Europe is 100% while in Canada/USA it is only 5%.
This seems to be a made up statistic.
Quote
It is no wonder people are getting sick because they spend most of their time indoors breathing air polluted with household chemicals.
Life expectancy in Canada is higher than in most European countries.  Despite massive amounts of "fresh air" (whatever that means) people in Bulgaria, Ukraine, Kosovo, Moldova, Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro will all die about 8 years before I will.

Quote
I am an Engineer and my wife a registered nurse and we decided the tangible risks are simply too great.
Please provide a full risk breakdown.  Give each researched factor and it's probability of harm.  Please reference a body of medical data and....
of course you didn't do this...any of this but somehow you believe that the "risk are simply too great".  Even though you didn't actually figure them out.

Quote
The level of complete and utter incompetency is mind boggling and a hospital is most definitely the last place on earth you want to find yourself in my opinion.
Please provide statistics.
Quote
So we must decide for ourselves and make informed choices
Seems like the opposite of what you did.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 11, 2014, 11:01:38 PM
Hospitals are full of sick people.  Who wants to be around that?  Even most hospitals recognize that the shorter the stay the lower the risks of infections such as from staph.

5% serious injury or death from vaccinations is preposterous.  You can do your own ad-hoc survey of your neighbors who have had their children vaccinated to test that number.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 11, 2014, 11:02:58 PM
Ingest some mercury for me and we'll find out.
As I said, over 700 children of all ages with elevated levels of mercury in their blood - higher than what they get vaccinated with were examined.   They showed no sign of neurological problems (and a slight increase of IQ). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23971942
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 11, 2014, 11:04:14 PM

Reliable evidence?  Ingest some mercury for me and we'll find out.  I'll record the data.
So that's a big no on reliable data.  You're repeating FUD.  In the meantime you've been ingesting mercury your entire life.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MileHigh on December 11, 2014, 11:17:34 PM
This whole argument is preposterous and ultimately ends up having the potential to hurt way way more people that it "protects."  It must be infuriating for medial professionals to deal with this.

Mercury = Bad.  Vaccines have mercury.  Therefore vaccines = Bad.

That is foolish bovine logic.  A very small trace amount of a compound of mercury will not kill you or harm you.  We sat around camp fires for hundreds of thousands of years with "smoke with toxic compounds in it" blowing in our faces and never gave it a second thought.  The metabolic function of your body produces "toxic waste products" consisting of "harmful chemicals" every second of every day and yet we live - it's 100% natural.  The body has systems for these things.

Here is a good analogy for the whackadoo anti-vaccine crowd to ponder:  Peanut butter has a certain amount of ground-up insect parts in it.  Some insects have toxic chemicals that form part of their overall make up.  For example, some insects have poison glands for their stingers.  Therefore peanut butter has trace amounts of toxic compounds in it from insect parts.  DON'T EAT PEANUT BUTTER IT CONTAINS POISON!!!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: ramset on December 11, 2014, 11:42:58 PM
Mh
yes truly Putrid indeed ,when Google search and cut and paste are perceived as a resource worthy
of inclusion in research that is still ongoing  ,and Men void of any true personal experience in this research perceive themselves the  Urim and  Thummim.





 whacky just doesn't begin to explain this one....


Good bye fellahs



Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 12, 2014, 01:44:54 AM
Not that my opinions are needed here, you guys are handling things nicely...but I would like to raise a few indisputable points.

Chemicals do not belong in the human body.

If they did, we would have receptors for it...like we have for the healing herb cannabis.

And NOBODY but NOBODY, knows exactly what is going on inside it...because there is no money in finding out.

The money is in fuck!ing it up...and to make money constantly by peddling bogus treatment protocols.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 12, 2014, 02:01:38 AM
Quote from: allcanadian
...
So we must decide for ourselves and make informed choices, the science journals from anywhere but North America are a good place to start because in my opinion our system is tainted and biased. You need to talk with real people in the system who know the facts concerning the levels of risk involved.

That is an excellent summation AC.

The CDC and the FDA, as well as the U.S. Congress
are in the business of avoiding (evading) liability
as a consequence of their decisions which often
have very negative impacts upon the health of the
People.

Unfortunately, many who support their AGENDA simply
have no idea of the depth of deception which is routinely
employed in the performance of their 'duties.'

Those who are placed at the top levels of any organization
in today's World are very carefully vetted to assure their
devotion to the Will of the Master.  The People be damned.
 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on December 12, 2014, 02:01:44 AM
@MH
Quote
This whole argument is preposterous and ultimately ends up having the potential to hurt way way more people that it "protects."  It must be infuriating for medial professionals to deal with this.


You mean the medial professionals who have a vested interests in the pharmaceutical industry?. The people who get perks such as seminars in exotic locations all expenses paid. Oh yes Milehigh I believe you and all of them are as pure at heart as virgin snow. Not unlike the doctor who mis-diagnosed literally hundreds of patients with cancer for no other reason that to sell very expensive chemotherapy drugs to them... shall I send you the link?.


Being a huge fan of psychology I would ask who has a vested interest and what motivates them?. Why if I had a vested interest I would hire every retired or unemployed shmuck who could hold a conversation to represent my interests for minimum wage. I would say scour the net and cast reasonable doubt on my interests but appear open minded and reasonable. Then we will create our own forums and web sites and fake reviews the subject. Like Mary from Montana--" I agree MH and my family has been vaccinated all our lives and never had an issue", or John from Timbucktu-- " It's all nonsense and we should have forced vaccinations for our children's sake". Then we could hire some psychopath like the doctor misdiagnosing his patients for profit to crease false data. Human nature can be a real bitch can't it.


The fact of the matter is that anyone with a vested interest in any way should be discounted and only credible independent third party science taken into consideration. Which pretty much discounts all of the good old USA and most of Canada because almost everyone has a vested interest in selling drugs.


Why I can now buy and receive a flu vaccination from every corner pharmacy here in Canada given by incompetent self-promoting half-wits with no real medical training which is a new development. I imagine all this talk of vaccines doing harm must have cut into someone's profit margins because apparently they are selling vaccines like cough syrup now... go figure.


I would suggest everyone here read a good book on psychology so you understand the basics of what motivates people and how to profile a persons personality... why they say what they do and what motivates them personally and how this relates to us and the facts.


Personally I love your posts MH because your like the poster boy of conformity and your psychology is just awesome , I mean that sincerely, you my friend are just simply amazing in my opinion.


AC







Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 12, 2014, 02:09:17 AM
Boy, lots of positive and negative flux in that post...well done.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 12, 2014, 02:27:49 AM
Chemicals do not belong in the human body.
Either you are the most amazing troll and I love you...or this quite clearly illustrates the deficiency in all of your educations.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 12, 2014, 02:42:37 AM
Not unlike the doctor who mis-diagnosed literally hundreds of patients with cancer for no other reason that to sell very expensive chemotherapy drugs to them... shall I send you the link?.
Please do.
Quote
Being a huge fan of psychology I would ask who has a vested interest and what motivates them?
Psychology isn't just asking qui bono.

Quote
I can now buy and receive a flu vaccination from every corner pharmacy here in Canada
You're kind of casting doubt on your being a Canadian.  Ten out of thirteen provinces support universal vaccination.  Which means it free to almost everyone.  The hold outs are BC, QC and NB and they still provide free shots to just about everyone in a risk group.  In those places it's also common for workplaces to provide the shot for free (as it was in ON before universal vaccination).

Quote
given by incompetent self-promoting half-wits with no real medical training
Given by pharmacists or Nurses.  There are various programs and requirements to allow pharms to administer a limited number of IM vaccines.

It would be nice if your posts contained some accurate information.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on December 12, 2014, 02:49:55 AM
@Cap-Z-ro
It is a time of the spirit of giving and if we cannot laugh at the absurdity of what we do then we are lost. Personally I find myself as comical if not more so than most others, what we do, the way we think, how we say one thing then do another... the human experience. Those eccentricities we hide, hidden motivations I mean we really are a sight to behold aren't we, lol.


The best thing I ever did was to really understand myself so that I might understand you, not what you appear to be or would have me believe but you.


AC
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 12, 2014, 03:13:08 AM
Either you are the most amazing troll and I love you...or this quite clearly illustrates the deficiency in all of your educations.



I find I don't need a shower afterward if I direct my comments top the readership...


Those who lie to me once, are thereafter recognized as liars.

Those who lie in order to convince me vaccinations are not toxic, are thereafter recognized as treacherous liars.

Life is much less complicated that way.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 12, 2014, 03:16:36 AM
I find I don't need a shower afterward if I direct my comments top the readership...
I find raspberries particularly filling in Spain.  Which makes about as much sense as what you just said.
Quote
Those who lie in order to convince me vaccinations are not toxic, are thereafter recognized as treacherous liars.
Ever notice how I can show you exactly where you're wrong about something...and you can only make vague statements?

If I've lied somewhere please point it out.  I'm more than happy to be corrected.  You don't seem to share that sentiment.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 12, 2014, 03:28:23 AM
Supporters of liars become liars by proxy, and shall receive all privileges and recognition accorded thereto.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on December 12, 2014, 03:36:00 AM
@Sarkeinzen


You need a new name which is easier to spell, lol.
I cannot prove anything to anyone that they are not willing to prove for themselves no more than any facts could persuade anyone to believe something they cannot.


Cite what, prove what?, you want some contrivance to disprove by some obscure logic my position to gain ground but there are no real facts on your part nor mine in regards to either of us only opinions. I cite that we do not know, I proclaim we can only use our best judgement but be wary of what motivates a person to do the things they do simply because what they do must have at it's root in some kind of motivation.


Accurate information?...really?. Based on what exactly?. The scientist whereby a recent study by actual scientists determined that 47% have or have know someone who has falsified their data in regards to their own best interests... that information?...really? .Ok let's suppose one half have not falsified their data now who exactly would you have me believe regarding the fact I do not know whom has "fibbed" and whom has not when obviously few if any outside that context would actually know the difference?.


Can you spell the word "Speculation"?, I understand you have an opinion but I have to ask have you actually researched the people who claim one thing or another and where their motivations come from?. Do they have a vested interest which may represent a conflict of interest or do they not?.


As well you may have to define the exact meaning of the word free for me, do you mean free to me despite the fact I have in fact paid for the material and service in regard to the taxes I have paid to our government or the fact at the moment I did not have to physically take money out of my wallet and give it to someone?. I would hope you understand that I have in fact paid for the service regardless of whether I received the service or not in the form of taxes... so where does this free part come into play exactly?.


You are trying to argue your point on a foundation of quicksand and I would hope you can do better in the future. I mean I have had four glasses of Merlot and I have as much issue with tearing your logic apart as I do with farting at this point, I would expect more.


AC



Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 12, 2014, 03:54:09 AM
I cannot prove anything to anyone
Nobody is asking for proof.
Quote
Cite what
Dude I've asked you to cite at least a half-dozen things you've claimed.  Go back and read.
Quote
there are no real facts on your part nor mine in regards to either of us only opinions.
Not true.  I've actually cited one study and anything I haven't cited I could easily pull up.  You have but to ask (specifically).
Quote
I cite that we do not know
Don't know what?  That vaccines are very safe?  Evidence strongly suggests that they are.
Quote
Accurate information?...really?. Based on what exactly?. The scientist whereby a recent study by actual scientists determined that 47% have or have know someone who has falsified their data in regards to their own best interests... that information?
Cite?  Whoops.  You don't actually provide evidence do you.
Quote
Do you mean free to me despite the fact I have in fact paid for the material and service in regard to the taxes
Dude you said that you could go into a drug store and BUY a flu vaccine.  However you can't - just about anywhere in Canada.  Now you seem to be backpedaling and trying to claim that when you said "walk into a store and buy" you meant "paid taxes".  So you seem like you are lying about living in Canada.
Quote
I have as much issue with tearing your logic apart
Don't worry.  You won't be doing any of that. :)
Quote
I would expect more.
Dude I expect people to be able to form cogent sentences.  You appear to be deficient in this regard.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 12, 2014, 04:01:41 AM
Supporters of liars become liars by proxy, and shall receive all privileges and recognition accorded thereto.
So wait.  Did I lie? or am I supporting someone who's lying?  If I'm allegedly supporting someone who's lying why won't you say who or where or how you know?

Why wouldn't you provide me the opportunity to correct myself?  Or yourself.  After all it's possible that you are utterly wrong.  Right? Or did you become infallible at some point?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 12, 2014, 04:25:38 AM
So wait.  Did I lie? or am I supporting someone who's lying?  If I'm allegedly supporting someone who's lying why won't you say who or where or how you know?

Why wouldn't you provide me the opportunity to correct myself?  Or yourself.  After all it's possible that you are utterly wrong.  Right? Or did you become infallible at some point?



Another great quote:

" Don't know what?  That vaccines are very safe?  Evidence strongly suggests that they are."



Lets call a Mulligan on the evidence the so called CDC "scientists" hid, which showed their "very safe" vaccines were causing autism.

I believe that hiding evidence wood qualify as a lie of commission.

And, it naturally follows that those who supports this lie...

Regards...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 12, 2014, 04:26:13 AM
.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Madeo on December 12, 2014, 04:44:18 AM
I was under the impression that the Overunity forum was a collection of open minded individuals who are interested in alternative energy and alternative health discussions. It is quite surprising that there are people here who strongly defends the use of mercury in human bodies especially babies. I simply cannot fathom why ANY levels of mercury is safe which one of the most potent neurotoxin.  On who's standards?  FDA, Pharma companies, AMA, other gov't agencies?  I think we all understand that these groups are corrupt. They are not interested in your health. They are interested in money. There is a lot of money in managing diseases, but hardly any for curing it. The sicker you are, the more money they can suck out of you and your family.   So why should I trust their statistics, rigged research, and opinions ?





Here are simple questions:


What is the safe level of mercury in the body ?
What is the safe level of lead in the body?
what is the safe level of plastic chemicals in the body?
what is the safe level of monosodium glutamate in the body?
what is the safe level of tobacco chemicals in the body?
What is the safe level of alcohol in the body?
What is the safe level of preservatives in the food that I cannot even pronounce?


One simple answer :  ZERO.  If it was safe, then the body would have produced it or has receptors specifically for them in the first place.



Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on December 12, 2014, 04:54:10 AM
@Sark
Quote
Dude you said that you could go into a drug store and BUY a flu vaccine.  However you can't - just about anywhere in Canada.  Now you seem to be backpedaling and trying to claim that when you said "walk into a store and buy" you meant "paid taxes".  So you seem like you are lying about living in Canada.


Well where I live in Southern Alberta, Canada just about every drug store has a sign that basically states-- flu shot available here...as in here... this place...the place you are now looking at. Now what do you suppose that means?. I could be idiotic or otherwise predisposed but the fact that my wife is an registered nurse and in fact she says yes you can get a flu shot for $30 plus change would have me believe you are not quite with us. Which does not surprise me because many are not quite with us in the here and now...as in right now and here, vice vera.


Maybe this may remind you--
http://www1.shoppersdrugmart.ca/en/health-and-pharmacy/health/this-year-get-your-flu-shot-at-shoppers-drug-mart/40717/2?lang=en%3FCategory%3DHealth (http://www1.shoppersdrugmart.ca/en/health-and-pharmacy/health/this-year-get-your-flu-shot-at-shoppers-drug-mart/40717/2?lang=en%3FCategory%3DHealth)


http://www.rexall.ca/services/flu-shot (http://www.rexall.ca/services/flu-shot)


http://www.walmart.ca/en/flu-shot-clinics (http://www.walmart.ca/en/flu-shot-clinics)


Uhm which part of this do you not understand?, Where exactly are you from?, I mean which planet and the precise location if you will?. Which part of anytime, any day, no appointment necessary do you you not understand?.


Which part of--
 For protection and convenience, you can get your flu shot at more than 280 Walmart Pharmacy locations across Canada. We can help you find the nearest Walmart Pharmacy flu shot clinic locations and hours of operation--

--Do you not understand?,  or do you have mental issue we should need to be concerned about?. I mean...Dude... if your going to spout BS then at least try to make it believable in some remotely credible way because this is just embarrassing. I don't really want to do this anymore than you do so let's try to keep it within the realm of this planet...earth if we could.


As i said this was not happening in the last few years to my knowledge, this is new and quite disturbing that there are literally no checks and balances in this process. Why we may as well have a cattle shute and just run the stupid bastards through that which would be much more cost effective.


AC
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 12, 2014, 05:02:36 AM
Lets call a Mulligan on the evidence the so called CDC "scientists" hid, which showed their "very safe" vaccines were causing autism.
Wrong.  There is no actual data which shows what you're talking about.   What you're indirectly referencing (indirectly - because you have never actually read this study) was Hooker's reanalysis of DeStefano et al.  Hooker is not a epidemiologist or a bio-statistician he's a biochemist.   Which is why he botched the analysis so badly.  He used Pearson's chi-squared test to determine a positive correlation between age/ethnicity groups and autism.     The problem is that doesn't account for confounders and is more likely to give false positive on small samples.  Which is exactly what he was working with.  When you use a logistic regression - which is what you should use in that case and is what DeStefano used - the correlation disappears.
Quote
I believe that hiding evidence wood qualify as a lie of commission.
So who's lying again?  It's not the numbers.  They say no correlation.   So if Thompson is disagreeing with the research doesn't that make him at least confused if not actually lying.
Quote
And, it naturally follows that those who supports this lie...
So you support Thompson and the implication is that Thompson is wrong (according to the data).  Doesn't that make you supporting someone who's at least confused if not lying?

Interesting fact if you believe that Hooker's analysis is correct.  You realize that you absolutely have to believe that the MMR is completely and totally safe for everyone else.  Otherwise you're just cherry picking your data. Which is kind of like lying - just to yourself but as you are the easiest person to fool... :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 12, 2014, 05:13:07 AM
Well where I live in Southern Alberta, Canada just about every drug store has a sign that basically states-- flu shot available here....she says yes you can get a flu shot for $30 plus change
AB has universal vaccination.  Free to everyone 6mo and older.  You sure you live there?  None of your links say $30.

Quote
Which part of anytime, any day, no appointment necessary do you you not understand?.
You said you could GO AND BUY ONE.  Which you can't.  Not really.  I suppose you could throw $30 at the person giving you the injection and hope they don't give it back or something.  *sigh* just admit you were wrong.  Sure you can walk into a drug store and get vaccinated but there's really nothing to buy.

Quote
As i stated this was not happening in the last few years to my knowledge, this is new and quite disturbing that there are literally no checks and balances in this process.
Wrong.  The standards for running a flu clinic do vary from province to province but it's a mis-characterization to say there are no standards.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on December 12, 2014, 05:21:38 AM

from our friends at Walmart Canada
FAQs
1. What types of immunizations are offered?Walmart Pharmacy offers a range of CDC recommended immunizations for seniors and adults.2. Are Walmart Pharmacists trained to give immunizations?Walmart certified pharmacists have completed an immunization training program endorsed by the CDC or the Accreditation Council for Pharmacy Education.3. Who should get a flu shot?The CDC recommends that everyone over 6 months be vaccinated, with some exceptions; individuals with certain medical conditions should not get vaccinated. Please note that Walmart does not administer flu shots to children as young as 6 months. Learn more at www.cdc.gov (http://www.cdc.gov/)
4. Do you offer school immunizations?Walmart provides immunizations to children age 8 and up, if allowed under state law and CDC recommendations.5. Do you accept insurance for immunizations?We do accept some insurance plans; please check with a Walmart Pharmacist.6. What forms of payment are accepted for immunizations?We accept some forms of insurance, cash, check, Walmart credit card, Visa, Mastercard, American Express and Discover card.




Awesome , I'm going to take a two hour immunization course then rig up an Arduino automated self-immunizing cattle shute and run 100 of those stupid bastards through per hour. I mean why not, it is for the greater good isn't it, it is the most cost effective solution isn't it?. I will rig up a debit machine at the entrance and down the fing shute you go, cattle one and all. LOL be careful what you wish for gentlemen you may just get it.AC




Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 12, 2014, 05:33:49 AM
Awesome , I'm going to take a two hour immunization course
The ACPE varies from province to province.  In AB it's about 16 CEU's but again knowing this involves thinking and checking your facts and why would you start doing that now?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 12, 2014, 05:59:29 AM
Quote from: sarkeizen
...In AB...

Where on Earth is AB?  Or, more specifically, can you
provide the precise Legal Definition of AB?

We use the same sort of Legal Fiction Abbreviations in
the U.S. and, sadly, very few understand what they
represent and where they are 'located.'

Baffle us please with more of your astounding 'knowledge.'
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 12, 2014, 06:09:54 AM
I woke up in the middle of an autism epidemic one day.

Later on so called scientists are accused of hiding evidence their vaccines were the cause...no immediate denials...except for later after the shock of exposure wore off.

Then I remembered that last week when so called scientists were accused of hiding 'global warming' evidence...no immediate denials then either...except for later after the shock of exposure wore off.

Then it occurred to me that these are the same people putting poison in my drinking water chemtrails in the sky and poison in my food products.

Then I asked myself...wood they lie to me ?

Then I thought...why should that surprise me ?

After all, these people we're talking about are murderous satan worshiping pedophiles.

Please let me know when all the lying has stopped.


Some choose to get their magnifying glass out to inspect the black spot...while i choose to stand back and observe the entire leopard.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 12, 2014, 06:34:58 AM
Where on Earth is AB?
Alberta, Canada - where Allcanadian claims to be from.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 12, 2014, 06:36:19 AM
Alberta, Canada - where Allcanadian claims to be from.
By Lake Louise I think you've got it!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 12, 2014, 06:39:03 AM
Which is right next to Mount Gonnatakeapeek.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 12, 2014, 06:43:51 AM
I woke up in the middle of an autism epidemic one day.
I'm not sure if you have woken up yet.  Excuse me if I don't hold my breath waiting.
Quote
Later on so called scientists are accused of hiding evidence their vaccines were the cause
Cite?  Or are you still thinking about Hooker's reanalysis.   I mean if you want to buy statistical analysis from someone who doesn't actually understand it be my guest.  Hooker is really the only one in that drama who can be called a "so called scientist".  As he is making a demonstrably incorrect claim OUTSIDE HIS FIELD.  Seriously, would you ask a plumber to do regression analysis?  Why ask a biochemist?
Quote
After all, these people we're talking about are murderous satan worshiping pedophiles.
Ok, now you are just making me love you.  Since this kind of talk couldn't come from anyone other than a troll.
Quote
Some choose to get their magnifying glass out to inspect the black spot...while i choose to stand back and observe the entire leopard.
Right now all you've done is imply that there was a CDC cover up.  Based on a study you never read and even if you did you wouldn't understand.  Where is the rest of the alleged leopard?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 12, 2014, 07:18:57 AM
I guess we can't delete the part about the people putting poison in my drinking water chemtrails in the sky and poison in my food products.


But lts move on, its a much easier task to try to dismiss this lone whistle blower...but not so easy when you hit double digits, like in the examples cited above...just ask Bill Cosby.

I mean why hide data in the first place, if everything is on the up and up ?

That reminds me, I better go hide yesterdays newspaper.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 12, 2014, 07:24:39 AM
but not so easy when you hit double digits, like in the examples cited above.
Exactly what examples?  The only example about vaccines you've produced is one that is clearly refuted.
Quote
I mean why hide data in the first place, if everything is on the up and up ?
What data do you think has been hidden?  Any reason you can't just clearly make your argument?  Is it really that easy to destroy that you need to hide it from me?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 12, 2014, 08:10:43 AM
Quote from: sarkeizen
Alberta, Canada - where Allcanadian claims to be from.

That, of course, is the kneejerk response you've obviously
been 'programmed' to believe and to deliver.

There is, however, a LEGAL DEFINITION of 'AB' which specifies
what IT is and where IT is located.  Are you familiar with
Legal Fictions?

With just a bit of research effort you should be able to discover
some clues.  The detailed and truthful LEGAL DEFINITION may
take much more effort unless you have a suitable resource at
your disposal.

It goes along with the deceptions which are so much a part of
the 'governments' of this age.
 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 12, 2014, 03:05:08 PM
Ever notice how the cabalists consistently avoid the fact that vaccinations are just one weapon used in the war against humanity ?

Focusing on the semantics and minutia are the main ways to avoid addressing the entire picture...its along the same lines as compartmentalization.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 12, 2014, 03:41:15 PM
Ever notice how the cabalists consistently avoid the fact that vaccinations are just one weapon used in the war against humanity ?
However you have yet to provide any credible evidence that it's a weapon.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 12, 2014, 03:52:22 PM
I was under the impression that the Overunity forum was a collection of open minded individuals who are interested in alternative energy and alternative health discussions.
I think it's more a community of narrow minded counter cultural zealotry. :)  You are a prime example of this.  I mean look at what you write.  Immensely arrogant, sweeping generalizations.  Entirely devoid of useful argument or evidence. :)  So no, you fail (miserably) the open-minded test.
Quote
It is quite surprising that there are people here who strongly defends the use of mercury in human bodies especially babies.
It's just a risk assessment.  So far Thiomersal is an exceptionally low risk.
Quote
I simply cannot fathom
Yes.  This is the problem.
Quote
What is the safe level of mercury in the body ?
Yawn.  Arbitrary standard of evidence.
Quote
One simple answer :  ZERO.  If it was safe, then the body would have produced it or has receptors specifically for them in the first place.
This is wrong in so many ways it's almost impressive.  Your body regularly creates chemicals which are lethal to it at particular dosages and you regularly ingest chemicals which your body can not biosynthesize.   Is there a particular reason you are as ignorant as you are?  Did you not go to school?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 12, 2014, 03:53:31 PM
That, of course, is the kneejerk response you've obviously been 'programmed' to believe and to deliver.
I confess I am part of those programmed to both use and understand provincial codes with reasonable accuracy.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on December 12, 2014, 05:03:17 PM
@Sark
Quote
Alberta, Canada - where Allcanadian claims to be from.


Yes, the land of oil and gas however I'm in Southern Alberta with miles of rolling prairie as far as the eye can see. As well we Albertan's are known for our independence which may come as no surprise. We are known as the world leaders of oil and gas extraction technologies and I know many people who travel around the world consulting. On a side note I know hundreds of people in the industry, many millionaires and most all have told me they would leave it in a heartbeat if they could make a living any other way. So it is not as if anyone wants to be there because it is a dirty unsustainable cut throat business and if the money wasn't there everyone told me they would leave and never look back which is interesting.


I understand I went a little overboard in my posts and a few glasses of wine may have influenced me,lol. I think we should be diligent and at the very least try to do a little research to properly weigh the risks. That is we should not be doing something just because other people are doing it or because we see an advertisement telling us we should do something.


I think most would agree we are being influenced by the media in the form of advertising on a scale which is unheard of in our history. I have no vested interest here, obviously, because I'm not the one telling someone to go out and buy something...just the opposite. As well Health care here may be free but we all know we always pay in one form or another. I pay my taxes and a large portion goes to the government, which then goes to the health care system which then goes to the drug corporations. So you see there is no free in it because my money still ends up in their pockets and I am paying for others vaccinations as well through my taxes.


In my opinion and using casual observations it would seem the least informed and unfortunately the least intelligent people at the lower income levels would seem to be the one's lining up to get vaccinated. Based on my personal observations and questions to family and friends as well as other persons I know.


Which raises a question in my mind, I know why I am here and it is to offer an alternative perspective to that of the media but I have to wonder why you are here?. I mean you seem to be suggesting that we should all go out and get vaccinated which would benefit the pharmaceutical industry while I am saying we should make informed choices. Which relates to the theme of my lasts posts concerning the motivations of people, why they are here and what they are saying...again just casual observations.


By the way why are you here if you don't mind me asking?.


AC
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 12, 2014, 06:53:48 PM
@Sark
I have no vested interest here, obviously, because I'm not the one telling someone to go out and buy something...just the opposite.
If you actually HAD read books on psychology or economics you'd recognize that you likely do have a vested interest: A vested interest in your current belief.
Quote
As well Health care here may be free but we all know we always pay in one form or another.
Irrelevant to every an all points at hand. :)  You still can't walk into a pharmacy and BUY a vaccine as you said you could.
Quote
In my opinion and using casual observations it would seem the least informed and unfortunately the least intelligent people at the lower income levels would seem to be the one's lining up to get vaccinated.
For an alleged engineer, your logic is insanely poor.  Your statement is:
a) Mindless bigotry. :)  You can't determine someones IQ by looking at them for the 4 min it takes to give them an IM of Fluarix.  You certainly can't gauge their level of information on a issue in that time.
b) Probably, in essence an inverse ad populum fallacy.
Quote
Based on my personal observations and questions to family and friends as well as other persons I know.
Wow you asked people for the AVERAGE IQ of people getting vaccinated and they were able to tell it to you with high accuracy?  Considering it takes the WAIS IV at least an hour to get a good estimate based on a very carefully chosen series of questions.  It's far far far far far far far far more likely that your observations and opinions of people you know are simply not nearly accurate enough to draw your conclusions.
Quote
I know why I am here
So you say...
Quote
I mean you seem to be suggesting that we should all go out and get vaccinated
No, I'm saying that virtually every assertion you've made against vaccines tend to fall into one of three categories.  a) Unfounded - you have cited nothing supporting your views.  b) ridiculous - 1 in 20 people who take some vaccines are seriously injured or killed?  c) show a real ignorance of math, biology and/or logic - like your "casually observing someone's IQ".  Personally I don't care if you get vaccinated or not.  However I do care if you want to come in here and promote nonsense.

Quote
I am saying we should make informed choices.
Not true, or that's not very much of what your saying. Your first two posts were FILLED with claim after ludicrous claim.  Spreading nonsense isn't telling people to make informed choices.  It's limiting them.

Quote
By the way why are you here if you don't mind me asking?.
I find it interesting how people like you and Capt-Z-ro and profitis work very hard to preserve your own ignorance.  It's pretty amazing really.  You go on about informed choice but can't actually defend your position and you clearly haven't done the kind of work necessary to reach some of the conclusions you claim.  All three of you spent far more time posturing than actually trying to clarify your position and none of you show much ability to criticize your own beliefs.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 12, 2014, 07:25:18 PM
However you have yet to provide any credible evidence that it's a weapon.

And once again, oh so conveniently, side stepping the part about the inbred cabal putting poison in drinking water, spraying toxic chemtrails in the sky and poison GMO's in food products.



Quote
It's just a risk assessment.  So far Thiomersal is an exceptionally low risk.

Well, now we're getting somewhere...we have an admission of risk.  An exceptionally low risk its claimed...by whom we do not know ??



Quote
However you have yet to provide any credible evidence that it's a weapon.


Again, who in the hell needs more evidence when you have the inbred cabal putting poison in drinking water, spraying toxic chemtrails in the sky and poison GMO's in food products, is it a stretch to conclude that we are the victims of bio-warfare ???


Quote
Your body regularly creates chemicals...

Now i suppose he's going to try to tell us that the form of citric acid that powers our immune system is the same as the chemical form of it which according to bio chemist Joe Hart, has the exact opposite effect.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 12, 2014, 07:52:45 PM
And once again, oh so conveniently, side stepping the part about the inbred cabal putting poison in drinking water, spraying toxic chemtrails in the sky and poison GMO's in food products.
I think those issues are sufficiently well covered in the Weekly World News.
Quote
Well, now we're getting somewhere...we have an admission of risk.
Saying "very safe" is the same as saying "low risk".
Quote
An exceptionally low risk its claimed...by whom we do not know ??
Already cited a study.
Quote
Again, who in the hell needs more evidence
So you're saying you don't need evidence actually indicating vaccine risk in order to conclude vaccine risk.  :)  Awwww you really are a troll.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 12, 2014, 08:40:42 PM
I think those issues are sufficiently well covered in the Weekly World News.

A source BTW, which is now actually closer to truth than mainstream copy.



Quote
Saying "very safe" is the same as saying "low risk".Already cited a study.

The CDC offer excellent "study's".



Quote
So you're saying you don't need evidence actually indicating vaccine risk in order to conclude vaccine risk.

Essentially, his logic is...

You are facing a psychopathic murderer with a six shooter...he's already shot at you 5 times, and the best strategy is to assume the last bullet is a blank, it will misfire, or the chamber is empty.

Somewhat like his head.


Quote
:)  Awwww you really are a troll.

I guess its a kind of compliment to be called a troll by a shill.


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 12, 2014, 08:51:09 PM
A source BTW, which is now actually closer to truth than mainstream copy.
So you believe that they found a bat boy in a cave? http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--trUR7vu9--/18m49k0wv4iq4jpg.jpg
Quote
The CDC offer excellent "study's".
Ever thought of actually making an actual argument instead of vague statements?  Then supporting it?
Quote
I guess its a kind of compliment to be called a troll by a shill.
How could I possibly be a shill?  Seriously. 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 12, 2014, 09:01:58 PM
So you believe that they found a bat boy in a cave? http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--trUR7vu9--/18m49k0wv4iq4jpg.jpgE (http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--trUR7vu9--/18m49k0wv4iq4jpg.jpgEver)


Folks, I think we have a live one here who believes the official 9/11 mainstream lie.



Quote
Ever thought of actually making an actual argument instead of vague statements?  Then supporting it?

I find evidential reality much more interesting and valid.


Quote
How could I possibly be a shill?  Seriously.

Seriously

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 12, 2014, 09:02:56 PM
Quote from: sarkeizen
...
...However I do care if you want to come in here and promote nonsense.

...Spreading nonsense isn't telling people to make informed choices.  It's limiting them.

...You go on about informed choice but can't actually defend your position and you clearly haven't done the kind of work necessary to reach some of the conclusions you claim.  All three of you spent far more time posturing than actually trying to clarify your position and none of you show much ability to criticize your own beliefs.

You work diligently to promote the perception
that you come from a position of 'higher
knowledge' or 'superior understanding.'  This is
a classic technique of those who specialize in
disinformation or support of an AGENDA which
itself is deceptive.

These techniques have been advanced in a number
of publications including The Soviet Art of Psycho-Politics.

The new Soviet, which has replaced the Soviet Union
upon the World stage, has become The West.  Watch in
amazement as it trance-forms itself with increasing
rapidity into the brutal instrument of tyranny and subjugation
while working to dominate the entire planet with its power.

What George Orwell predicted has come to pass, as he was
certain that it would.

Vaccinations have gradually become a tool of the
self-imagined Elite which are being used to incrementally
accomplish their malevolent PLAN.

No, there will not be found any 'credible' evidence of this
PLAN in any of the Mainstream Media outlets as their
principal function is to nullify Truth.

We're living in a most interesting and critical time.  It is
also interesting to observe how those who have been
'recruited' to defend the 'status quo' go about their
'business.'

Does anyone remember the pre-"AB" abbreviation for the
Province of Alberta?  Does anyone wonder why it has been
'phased out' and supplanted by the new "AB" jurisdiction?

The PLAN is a very clever one and relies upon FICTION to
achieve its aims.
 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 12, 2014, 09:19:40 PM
Folks, I think we have a live one here who believes the official 9/11 mainstream lie.
So you do believe in Bat Boy?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 12, 2014, 09:29:18 PM
You work diligently
Never even once.
Quote
that you come from a position of 'higher knowledge' or 'superior understanding.'
I do appear to know more than many of the farmers here at least about a few things.
Quote
This is a classic technique of
Actually I think calling something a "classic technique" as a classic technique of disinformation.  It implies some body of evidence without providing any.
Quote
Vaccinations have gradually become a tool of the self-imagined Elite which are being used to incrementally accomplish their malevolent PLAN.
Yes our plan to keep people from being harmed by disease.
Quote
No, there will not be found any 'credible' evidence of this PLAN in any of the Mainstream Media outlets.
...and this lack of presence will of course convince you further of a great hidden plan.  Because only great hidden plans can not be glimpsed.
Quote
interesting to observe how those who have been 'recruited' to defend the 'status quo'
Is "recruited" in quotes for some reason?  Was I actually recruited or do you mean something else.
Quote
Does anyone remember the pre-"AB" abbreviation for the Province of Alberta?
IIRC it was Alta. Ontario was Ont.
Quote
Does anyone wonder why it has been 'phased out' and supplanted by the new "AB" jurisdiction?
I hear that the bat people are behind it.
Quote
The PLAN is a very clever one and relies upon FICTION toachieve its aims.
No it depends on bats!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 12, 2014, 10:05:08 PM
Is it then no small coincidence that the USA was attacked by Al Qaida after release of "Bat Man" movies?  Is it no small coincidence that Bat Man prowls "Gotham City" a transparent representation of New York City?  Is it no small coincidence that bats can transmit rabies a disease treated with vaccinations?  Is the master "PLAN" dependent on raising bats in secret underground lairs of the ruling elite?  Is it no small coincidence that a dying boy was paraded about San Francisco as the "Bat Boy"?  Was that some psychological operation by the ruling elite to get an unwitting public to embrace bats, rabies, and ultimately vaccines that ensure certain death after a gestation period of just 80 to 100 years?  Are anti-psychotic drugs under-prescribed?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MileHigh on December 12, 2014, 10:45:23 PM
I have a dedicated bat keeper in my underground megacomplex.  A special hidden bat-chimney was built all the way to the surface to facilitate the bat access.  It's totally bat-ass!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 12, 2014, 11:47:50 PM
So you do believe in Bat Boy?


A fine example of the classic, and all too common troll dodge.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on December 13, 2014, 12:18:51 AM
@Sark
Quote
I find it interesting how people like you and Capt-Z-ro and profitis work very hard to preserve your own ignorance.  It's pretty amazing really.  You go on about informed choice but can't actually defend your position and you clearly haven't done the kind of work necessary to reach some of the conclusions you claim.  All three of you spent far more time posturing than actually trying to clarify your position and none of you show much ability to criticize your own beliefs.


Personally I think your a young American tech/nerd who gets off on this kind of psychotic shit but that's just my opinion.
To each his own I guess...have fun.


AC
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 13, 2014, 12:36:20 AM
Quote from: sarkeizen
...Yes our plan to keep people from being harmed by disease...

Of course.  How clever! ;)

Unfortunately, such a benevolent course would deprive the
'Health Care Industry' of virtually all of its 'profits.'  A healthy,
unsickly population would have no need to spend a fortune
on doctor visits, prescriptions, treatment regimens or
'health care maintenance.' :'(

Quote from: AllCanadian's response to sarkeizen
Personally I think your a young American tech/nerd who gets off on this kind of psychotic shit but that's just my opinion.
To each his own I guess...have fun.

Brilliant AC!  You've nailed it!
 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 13, 2014, 12:58:22 AM
Quote from: sarkeizen
Is "recruited" in quotes for some reason?  Was I actually recruited or do you mean something else.

Whether you have been recruited and are under the
influence of a 'controller' or you are acting independently
in sympathy with your love of money and the love of
this World is not yet known.  It is relatively unimportant
at this stage.  You'll probably let slip the 'relationship'
as your work at this forum progresses.

Quote
IIRC it was Alta. Ontario was Ont.

Aye, that is correct.

Alberta (abbreviated Alta.) is legally a different
jurisdiction than AB.  Through the Magick of the
CITY OF LONDON Parish Fictions any location on
the face of the Earth can be LEGALLY brought
into the CITY OF LONDON (The One Mile Square.)
Of course, it does rely upon the 'voluntary cooperation'
of the ENTITY and its INHABITANTS (SUBJECTS.)

The deceptions of today have very old roots.
Babylon has been resurrected as Babylon the Great.
Great Britain and The Crown.  Naturally, in keeping with
the PLAN of deception, neither of those are in reality what
the People have been led to believe they are.

Vaccinations are deception;  honest early medical works
which have been corrupted to implement the PLAN.

By their Fruits you will know them.   Unless, of course, one
has been blinded by persuasive propaganda.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 13, 2014, 02:30:57 AM
Personally I think your a young American tech/nerd who gets off on this kind of psychotic shit but that's just my opinion.
Dude.  It's simple - if you can actually argue your point that vaccine risks significantly outweigh the benefits.  Then make it.  I'm happy to have my mind changed.  However you (and just about everyone else) does EVERYTHING BUT that.  You dance about, cast aspersions on peoples character and motivations but that's all you have.  Intellectually you are an empty box.  Go pretend you know something about something else.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 13, 2014, 02:35:57 AM
A fine example of the classic, and all too common troll dodge.
I'm the one talking about vaccines.  You're the one who can't.  If you have an argument I'd love to hear it.  If you have something that is STRONG evidence.  Kudos.  If you're just going to stroke your ego because you're butthurt.  Perhaps that's better done in the privacy of your own home.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 13, 2014, 02:49:35 AM
Whether you have been recruited and are under the influence of a 'controller' or you are acting independently
in sympathy with your love of money and the love of this World is not yet known.  It is relatively unimportant
at this stage.  You'll probably let slip the 'relationship' as your work at this forum progresses.
I think my controller works at Burger King.  Is that normal?  I was there once ordering some chicken fries and the guy at the register asked if he could eat with me.  I found this odd but since I had nothing else to do I decided to go with it.  I found a seat, he got someone to take over his station and joined me.  He started talking to me about the New World Order and how Amway was the true church of MLM productization but I couldn't get over the fact that during his whole sermon he was eating my fries.  He went on to connect the dots all the way from this one true church to the ancient scrolls found in Qumran in 1990. I left that night with much to think about...hungry for knowledge of this new age to come but also because the asshole had eaten my fries.

Quote
Vaccinations are deception;  honest early medical work which have been corrupted to implement the PLAN.
Sorry you're wrong as an inductee of the New World Order I know far more about the PLAN than you do.  The fact is that vaccinations are the path to truth, righteousness and mind-blowing intercourse .   
Quote
By their Fruits you will know them.
...and we've seen the fruits of the unvaccinated and the anti-vaccinated and they are filled with disease.  We know from Revelation 15 the the last angel releases plagues on the earth and the righteous are saved.  Of course this is a direct comparison to vaccination.

(It is incredibly easy to write Overunity style nonsense - is OU just trolling the saner parts of the internet?)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 13, 2014, 03:01:42 AM
A cuppla forum dingos have been observed circling and sniffing scat around the perimeter.

Having watched this show over the years, the readers know why they haven't moved in for the kill.

They can also use google and are just waiting for this to occur to the shill.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 13, 2014, 03:19:58 AM
<nonsense deleted>
Anytime you want to bring an actual argument.  I'd love to hear it.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 13, 2014, 03:49:35 AM
Its minutes away from the doobie hour...anything could happen then.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 13, 2014, 03:54:43 AM
I guess we can't delete the part about the people putting poison in my drinking water chemtrails in the sky and poison in my food products.


But lts move on, its a much easier task to try to dismiss this lone whistle blower...but not so easy when you hit double digits, like in the examples cited above...just ask Bill Cosby.

I mean why hide data in the first place, if everything is on the up and up ?

That reminds me, I better go hide yesterdays newspaper.

Regards...

My suggestion to you is...purify you own water, grow your own food, don't take vaccinations, and quit breathing.

See?  Very simple.  Problems solved.

Next?

Bill

PS  I have not had any vaccinations since 1976. (swine flu)  This is my choice.  We can all make our own choices.  Of course, if you can't afford them, then the choice is already made for you.  I have not missed a day of work due to illness in over 30 years.  (crossing fingers)  Just let folks decide for themselves is all I am saying.  What is wrong with that?  Now, if our brilliant government "Orders" us to be vaccinated then, we can talk.  Oh, I am also not paying my fine for not having health insurance under Obamacare (what a joke)  I told the IRS this and they can try to hunt me down if they wish.  I had health insurance until this stupid law was rammed upon us.  Now I can't afford it nor the fines.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 13, 2014, 04:04:54 AM
Ah...but there is always one brainless bum sniffing dingo that thinks the king lion moving in for the kill, and moves in to howl like an adolescent coyote.

So, king has a new bum sniffer...as it were.

Back in merry ol' england his official title wood be 'Groom of the Stool'.

There may be some king sh!t to wipe from the kingly back rim before the nights out.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 13, 2014, 04:07:37 AM
Ah...but there is always one brainless bum sniffing dingo that thinks the king lion moving in for the kill, and moves in to howl like an adolescent coyote.

So, king has a new bum sniffer...as it were.

Back in merry ol' england his official title wood be 'Groom of the Stool'.

There may be some king sh!t to wipe from the kingly back rim before the nights out.

Regards...

Damn Cap, what is with your fixation on men's asses?  I mean really.  Did you not read my post?

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 13, 2014, 04:13:36 AM
*watching Corner Gas...will attempt to extract stool 'Groom' from kings rim when its over*

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 13, 2014, 04:34:53 AM
I do hope the readership will pardon the interruption from the the brainless fudge scrubber.

Whenever he sees the word 'ass' he thinks that sh!t will shurley follow...so, he's right there to wipe the slot clean.

This may require a modification to the 'tar baby'.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 13, 2014, 05:28:21 AM
Quote from: sarkeizen
...
I'm happy to have my mind changed.  However you (and just about everyone else) does EVERYTHING BUT that.
...

Most who come into the various discussions here
simply wish to provide food for thought in order to
encourage research with an open mind in pursuit
of Truth.

If any 'mind changing' is to take place it should only
occur as a result of extensive research which considers
all sides of the various controversies.

We do in our conversational exchanges indicate
how our own personal experiences have helped
to shape our individual mindsets to illustrate that
such experiences can be very powerful motivators.

In the final analysis a well grounded, well informed
person would take a position in any controversy only
after they'd found certain facts to be True according
to their own ability to objectively arrive at conclusions.

Unfortunately, in today's World the People are functioning
at less than ideal capability and are too easily swayed by
emotional appeals and too easily influenced by propaganda
which originates from sources they've been 'programmed'
to accept as authoritative.

Hence, our need to constantly evaluate food for thought in
an effort to acquire wisdom and understanding.

Then there are those 'others' who join in the conversations
just to push buttons and stir the pot.  They do enjoy some
success in acquiring sympathizers who eagerly adopt their
point of view thinking it is the prevailing popular belief.
Many are very fearful of being labeled a 'conspiracy theorist'
and remain firmly imprisoned within their box of conformity.

Mind Control techniques are very effective with certain 'individuals'
which explains why governments and their controlled media
outlets make such extensive use of them.  Much capital is invested
annually in programs designed to sway public opinion favorably
towards government folly.  Deception is a very large part of those
programs.

So the question is:  Will anyone change their mind about anything
as a result of objective research or will their minds be changed for
them by means of manipulative techniques?

Any who come across as being deeply entrenched in establishment
thinking or who defend the 'official story' with seemingly blind
obedience are always viewed with suspicion.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 13, 2014, 05:46:23 AM
My suggestion to you is...purify you own water, grow your own food, don't take vaccinations, and quit breathing.

See?  Very simple.  Problems solved.

Except for the 'quit breathing part' not a bad plan.

Quote
PS  I have not had any vaccinations since 1976. (swine flu)  This is my choice.  We can all make our own choices.  Of course, if you can't afford them, then the choice is already made for you.  I have not missed a day of work due to illness in over 30 years.  (crossing fingers)  Just let folks decide for themselves is all I am saying.  What is wrong with that?  Now, if our brilliant government "Orders" us to be vaccinated then, we can talk.  Oh, I am also not paying my fine for not having health insurance under Obamacare (what a joke)  I told the IRS this and they can try to hunt me down if they wish.  I had health insurance until this stupid law was rammed upon us.  Now I can't afford it nor the fines.

Aye, declining most vaccinations is a good
way to go.  If one is knowledgeable in the ways
of strengthening the immune system and living
a low stress life good health will follow.

Yup, Obongo-Care has had a very significant
impact on health insurance costs.  But, being
without may be a blessing in disguise - thus
enabling full control over your health care decisions
and curbing excessive reliance on doctor visits.

In the old days out on the farm we only consulted
a doctor when the pain and discomfort couldn't be
otherwise managed.  Something like maybe four or
five doctor visits each ten years.  And, in those days,
the doc came to the house!  The Vet did too and we
saw him (or her) a lot more often than the Doc.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 13, 2014, 06:35:42 AM
Ok, where are they...where'd they go ?

Where is king shill and his witt/Groom of the Stool ?

First, I will eliminate the Groom from the issue...I will do that by breaking into words of 3 or more  syllables.


Constantinople copacetic cunnilinguistic...


There while he's working on those words we can get down to it.

Here's how it looked from my vantage point atop the roof of Commissioner Gordon's building.

The king enters the thread demanding evidence to counter all his various purported study's supporting vaccinations from vested interests.

He goes on to offhandedly dismiss THE whistleblower as a a lab janitor or something who's unable to distinguish a graph from a crossword puzzle...when according to what I've heard, there were apparently many whistleblowers who came forward.

I guess he thought that little detail to be insignificant to bring up...maybe inconvenient wood be a more suitable term ?

Regards...



and follows up with more demands for evidence that vaccines are not toxic.


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 13, 2014, 08:33:59 AM
Cap - 1:

If you can distract your fascination with men's butts for a moment,  oh wait, you can't?

Oh,OK.

Never mind.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 13, 2014, 05:21:30 PM
He goes on to offhandedly dismiss THE whistleblower as a a lab janitor or something who's unable to distinguish a graph from a crossword puzzle...
This would all be easier if a) You actually make a clear argument - with names and cites and b) you just READ the actual study and associated information.  You are conflating a lot of stuff this is probably because of statement like this:
Quote
when according to what I've heard,
See I don't base my understanding one what the cousin to the dishwasher said they heard in passing from the garbageman.

The person who is getting the label "CDC whistleblower" is Thompson a co-author of the study in question.  He claims that statistically significant data was omitted.  This was after talking with one Brian Hooker.  Hooker is not a statistician which is why he muffed his analysis and got a false positive.  A mistake I wouldn't expect from a grad student let alone a professional.

Also if you really want to believe Thompson - then you also have to believe Hooker which means you believe that MMR is unrelated to autism for everyone except afro-americans.  If you disagree and believe that MMR is a significant risk factor for all people.  Then you have to believe that Hooker's reanalysis is wrong and that Thompson is confused.

Let me know when you, or anyone can make an actual argument.  I won't hold my breath.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 13, 2014, 05:37:35 PM
Most who come into the various discussions here simply wish to provide food for thought
Probably not, at least not in this thread.  "food for thought" describes something that can be "intellectually chewed over".  There is almost no examples of that here.  Case in point "allcanadian" says that he and his friends OBSERVED PEOPLE WITH LOW IQs getting vaccinated.  I argue that only complete morons would think this is something that actually promotes thinking.  It's a) Not something that can be validated unless we know allcanadian and his/her friends.  b) it's not something that can be validated through some other group because there's probably nobody who would have that data. c) it's bigoted nonsense as you in all likelihood can't OBSERVE IQ.

All you can do with allcanadian's statement is accept it or not.  This is pretty much what most people in this thread provide.  This isn't making people think deeply at all.  If anything it's teaching people to accept facile arguments the exact opposite of "food for thought".
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 13, 2014, 06:38:15 PM
This would all be easier if a) You actually make a clear argument - with names and cites and b) you just READ the actual study and associated information.
 

Its always good for a laugh when morons tell everybody how unedgumacated they are and then use the word "cites" as if its a noun.


You are conflating a lot of stuff this is probably because of statement like this:See I don't base my understanding one what the cousin to the dishwasher said they heard in passing from the garbageman.

Except in this case, here is where the shill has taken the bait, and has both feet buried in the tar baby.

Anyone with google knows there were many whistleblowers who came forward...and not just the one guy he keeps referencing.

Now, I suppose he will expect you to believe ALL of them are either stupid or lying.


Quote
The person who is getting the label "CDC whistleblower" is Thompson a co-author of the study in question.  He claims that statistically significant data was omitted.  This was after talking with one Brian Hooker.  Hooker is not a statistician which is why he muffed his analysis and got a false positive.  A mistake I wouldn't expect from a grad student let alone a professional.

Lets all look at this bozo's logic a little closer shall we...his words - "...statistically significant data was omitted." and - " Hooker is not a statistician which is why he muffed his analysis..."

Maybe he can explain how someone can ' muffed his analysis ' when " statistically significant data was omitted " ???

The Marines have a term for this...its called this being hung on your own petard.

Shill Shoots Self in Foot...nooz @ eleben.


Quote
Also if you really want to believe Thompson - then you also have to believe Hooker which means you believe that MMR is unrelated to autism for everyone except afro-americans.  If you disagree and believe that MMR is a significant risk factor for all people.  Then you have to believe that Hooker's reanalysis is wrong and that Thompson is confused.

Blah blah blah...also addressed above


Quote
Let me know when you, or anyone can make an actual argument.  I won't hold my breath.

If I were him I wood be holding my breath...at least while in the presence of his 'Groom of the Stool'.
i can only imaging the smell of stale stool...and thats just his breath.

And speaking of stupid, the 'Groom' is not eligible for further acknowledgement in this thread, as he has yet to discern the meaning of the multi-syllable three word code provided for him recently above.

Besides, he can only find relevance whenever a male body part is referenced in context...if not, he will interject his gay references whenever he feels the urge.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 13, 2014, 09:27:33 PM
Its always good for a laugh when morons tell everybody how unedgumacated they are and then use the word "cites" as if its a noun.
Just a short form for "citation".  It's pretty well known.  If you don't understand something. Please feel free to ask.
Quote
Anyone with google knows there were many whistleblowers who came forward...and not just the one guy he keeps referencing.
Please cite.  You said "CDC whistleblower" - this term usually refers to Thompson.  If you are thinking about someone else you only have to provide a reference.  You are probably conflating other nonsense with the current nonsense you are entertaining.
Quote
Lets all look at this bozo's logic a little closer shall we...his words - "...statistically significant data was omitted." and - " Hooker is not a statistician which is why he muffed his analysis..."

Maybe he can explain how someone can ' muffed his analysis ' when " statistically significant data was omitted " ???
*sigh* really.  You should just read the papers instead on relying on your inbred cousin's bag boy for information. The words "statistically significant data was omitted" weren't my words they were Thompson's taken from his press release (Reading! - Try it sometime!).  So it's Thompson's claim that information that would alter the outcome was omitted.  However his judgement on this is based - again from his statement (Reading!) - on Hookers analysis.   Hooker claims that his reanalysis includes data that alters the outcome.  Hooker muffed his analysis, as I stated earlier by using the wrong metric for determining correlation.

So there's no contradiction.  If you don't understand you can always ask.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 13, 2014, 09:37:52 PM
A ten minute video on Mercury and Fluoride. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3ARhMPVu-A)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 14, 2014, 12:40:00 AM
Just a short form for "citation".  It's pretty well known.  If you don't understand something. Please feel free to ask.Please cite.

Shhhuuuure...he also has a bridge or 3 that he wood also like you to buy.


Quote
You said "CDC whistleblower" - this term usually refers to Thompson.  If you are thinking about someone else you only have to provide a reference.  You are probably conflating other nonsense with the current nonsense you are entertaining.*sigh* really.  You should just read the papers instead on relying on your inbred cousin's bag boy for information. The words "statistically significant data was omitted" weren't my words they were Thompson's taken from his press release (Reading! - Try it sometime!).


Yeah, but then I mentioned there were others...after he took the 1 whistleblower bait.

He still hasn't tried to discredit them as yet...we need not wonder why.


Quote
So it's Thompson's claim that information that would alter the outcome was omitted.  However his judgement on this is based - again from his statement (Reading!) - on Hookers analysis.   Hooker claims that his reanalysis includes data that alters the outcome.  Hooker muffed his analysis, as I stated earlier by using the wrong metric for determining correlation.

And I suppose all the other whistleblowers muffed things up also.

Quote
So there's no contradiction.  If you don't understand you can always ask.

Ask and ye also shall be ignored.


Some of you may be unaware that since i believe the mid 1950's those psychopaths have been taking blood from every new born baby.

Now, why do you suppose they started doing that ?

It certainly couldn't be that their plan was to use DNA genome research to better target certain ethnic groups or individuals with their toxic injections, could it ?

This POS shill has also fail to address the various methods of distributing toxic chemicals to the masses.

He will also side step their depopulation agenda...and this is brazenly written in stone...just google Georgia Guidestones...because he certainly won't address it or provide a reasonable explanation for the ghoulish plot.

Life on this planet doesn't swing any lower than these creepos.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 14, 2014, 02:23:36 AM
A ten minute video on Mercury and Fluoride. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3ARhMPVu-A)

So out of curiosity.  How many hours did you spend attempting to refute this?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 14, 2014, 02:41:24 AM
Shhhuuuure...
Sorry it's simply a fact. 
Quote from: http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2011/10/cite.html
"Yes, the word “cite” is a bit jargony, but it’s common among linguists, etymologists, and other language types."
Quote
Yeah, but then I mentioned there were others...after he took the 1 whistleblower bait.
It's not "bait".  You talked about the CDC whistleblower singular.   I assume you mean Thompson because that is what most people appear to mean.  If you have some other person in mind you should mention them.
Quote
He still hasn't tried to discredit them as yet...we need not wonder why.
Because you haven't told me who you're talking about?
Quote
And I suppose all the other whistleblowers muffed things up also.
How many times do you want to misread something?  Hooker is not a whistleblower.  He doesn't work for the CDC.  However Thompson believed Hooker's poor analysis.  So while Thompson (the CDC whistleblower) didn't "muff" anything (other than believing Hooker) he is still wrong.  As for other people that you claim are CDC whistleblowers.   You're going to have to tell me who they are before I tell you  whats wrong (or right) with your position.
Quote
This POS shill has also fail to address the various methods of distributing toxic chemicals to the masses.
Right now I'm talking about vaccines.  After I cure you of your crazy I'd be more than happy to talk about your other problems.  This isn't sidestepping it's focusing on the issue being discussed.  What you are doing is often referred to as "moving the goalposts".  Either vaccines are, in and of themselves demonstrably and significantly harmful or they are not.  I say "not" you seem to say they "are".  We don't need to talk about chemtrails or bat boy or ruined temples on the face of mars to make that point.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 14, 2014, 02:56:08 AM
So out of curiosity.  How many hours did you spend attempting to refute this?
"Mandrake do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water why there is studies under way to fluoridate: salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk ice cream, ice cream, Mandrake, children's ice cream!"
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 14, 2014, 03:19:09 AM
So out of curiosity.  How many hours did you spend attempting to refute this?

Did you find something in the video which is in
need of refutation?  Refute What?

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 14, 2014, 03:23:34 AM
Did you find something in the video which is in
need of refutation?  Refute What?
So you didn't spend any time at all attempting to refute any of the information presented.  Right?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 14, 2014, 03:27:24 AM
"Mandrake do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water why there is studies under way to fluoridate: salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk ice cream, ice cream, Mandrake, children's ice cream!"
Yet another awesome reference!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 14, 2014, 03:53:07 AM
Yet another awesome reference!
"That's how your hard core commie works."
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 14, 2014, 04:11:41 AM
Sorry it's simply a fact.  It's not "bait".  You talked about the CDC whistleblower singular.   I assume you mean Thompson because that is what most people appear to mean.  If you have some other person in mind you should mention them. Because you haven't told me who you're talking about?

According to the thread transcript, I didn't name Thompson or Hooker either...but he seemed to be well aware of their existence.

The readership will remember that I also mentioned other whistleblowers a number of times before he acknowledged them just now...he postures now, that he wasn't aware they existed, and doesn't know who they are either.

So, if that is the case, then apparently it is actually he, who in fact does not read...and not me, as he implied.

I guess he thought it good strategy to accuse me of it first.

I submit, that he knows who the other whistleblowers are, but had nothing bad to say about them.

As his feet sink deeper into the tar baby the more he struggles.



Quote
How many times do you want to misread something?  Hooker is not a whistleblower.  He doesn't work for the CDC.
 

I don't work in government, but i blew the whistle on a number of them...and they did put me on their naughty list of people to do.

And its worth mentioning that the CDC wasn't the only accused party.


Quote
However Thompson believed Hooker's poor analysis.  As for other people that you claim are CDC whistleblowers.   You're going to have to tell me who they are before I tell you  whats wrong (or right) with your position.

I guess he really doesn't read...now suddenly he's conceding that they may have some relevant testimony to give, damaging to the CDC.

According to the thread transcript, I didn't name Thompson or Hooker either...but he seemed to be well aware of who THEY were.

The readership will remember that I also mentioned other whistleblowers a number of times before he acknowledged them just now...he postures now, that he wasn't aware they existed, and doesn't know who they are either. "


According to the thread transcript, I didn't name Thompson or Hooker either...but he seemed to be well aware of their existence.


Quote
Right now I'm talking about vaccines.

Yes, lets do ignore the fact that essentially he's advising people to buy their medicine from they guy who tried to poison them last week.


Quote
After I cure you of your crazy I'd be more than happy to talk about your other problems.  This isn't sidestepping it's focusing on the issue being discussed.


Well endowed...witty...helpful...Patent holder.

I can use words that describe also...i just don't project those descriptors on to others.


Quote
What you are doing is often referred to as "moving the goalposts".

Or pointing out the obvious.


Either vaccines are, in and of themselves demonstrably and significantly harmful or they are not.  I say "not" you seem to say they "are".  We don't need to talk about chemtrails or bat boy or ruined temples on the face of mars to make that point.

I'm reminded how the "Reverend" Ted Haggart usta hurl all his condemnations on gay people, proclaiming eternal damnation...and then how he got caught with a gay escort and buying meth to enhance his guilty trystful pleasure.

Regards...



Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 14, 2014, 04:32:48 AM
I didn't name Thompson or Hooker either
Or anything else.  So I used most common usage of "CDC whistleblower".  If that's not who you mean then there's no reason to play games.  Just say: "I actually meant".
Quote
he postures now, that he wasn't aware they existed, and doesn't know who they are either.
No.  I'm just letting you describe your argument.  If you have one.
Quote
I submit, that he knows who the other whistleblowers are, but had nothing bad to say about them.
You could prove this by naming them and then watch as I have nothing bad to say.  Why do you need to keep your argument a secret?
Quote
And its worth mentioning that the CDC wasn't the only accused party.
Not in this part of the argument as your statement was 'the evidence the so called CDC "scientists" hid, which showed their "very safe" vaccines were causing autism.'
Quote
I guess he really doesn't read...now suddenly he's conceding that they may have some relevant testimony to give, damaging to the CDC.
What could I say about an argument that you refuse to disclose?

Quote
Yes, lets do ignore the fact that essentially he's advising people to buy their medicine from they guy who tried to poison them last week.
Look if you have an argument to make about vaccines.  You should make it. Otherwise perhaps you should go pretend you know something about something else. :)

Quote
Or pointing out the obvious.
Nope it's moving the goalposts.  At first you seem to say that the CDC hid evidence which demonstrated clearly and unambiguously that vaccines cause autism.  If that's true I'd love to hear the argument.  If you can't make this point without talking about chemtrails then you've pretty much lost the argument. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 14, 2014, 05:05:45 AM




I'm reminded how the "Reverend" Ted Haggart usta hurl all his condemnations on gay people, proclaiming eternal damnation...and then how he got caught with a gay escort and buying meth to enhance his guilty trystful pleasure.

Regards...

You really just can not help yourself.  In a topic on vaccines, you are talking about gay escorts.  That makes a lot of sense to no one except yourself.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 14, 2014, 06:09:35 AM
"My quote:<blockquote>I guess he really doesn't read...now suddenly he's conceding that they may have some relevant testimony to give, damaging to the CDC.</blockquote>
Quote
What could I say about an argument that you refuse to disclose?"



After seeing that tired reply, I feel like the guy who has to keep punching because the referee isn't stepping in,

I think the readership has had just about all the trolling it wants.


Time for a reset.

I stated my position on my first post in this thread...

'...Chemicals do not belong in the human body.

If they did, we would have receptors for it...like we have for the healing herb cannabis.

And NOBODY but NOBODY, knows exactly what is going on inside it...because there is no money in finding out.

The money is in fuck!ing it up...and to make money constantly by peddling bogus treatment protocols. '


I simply outlined that position by adding some other pieces of that picture.

My position has never been confined to vaccines alone, which are just another puzzle piece.

There exist an inbred murderous psychopathic bloodline dating back to ancient Babylon are behind the vaccines chemtrails GMO's fluoride and mercury poisoning, the cancer epidemic conspiracy, and on down the line.

To pretend there is no connection between them is stupidity, cognisant dissonance, or complicity - by proxy or otherwise.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 14, 2014, 06:13:27 AM
Quote
You really just can not help yourself.  In a topic on vaccines, you are talking about gay escorts.  That makes a lot of sense to no one except yourself.

Bill


*shows Groom of the Stool the lavatory*

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on December 14, 2014, 08:38:22 AM

Nice work, capzro!
 :D



Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 14, 2014, 03:24:11 PM
Quote from: sarkeizen
What can I say about an argument you refuse to disclose?
After seeing that tired reply, I feel like the guy who has to keep punching because the referee isn't stepping in,
Yawn.  You claim to have some argument about CDC whistleblowers and covering up the idea that vaccines cause autism.  However you won't say who they are for some entirely undisclosed reason.  The only well known one (Thompson) doesn't make your point.

This is more like you not being willing to step into the ring.

Quote
'...Chemicals do not belong in the human body.
I just assumed you were trolling or stupid here.  If you were to remove all the chemicals from your body you would be dead.  So since you're running away from your "there are some whistleblowers who clearly indict the CDC but I am mentally impaired from identifying them" argument.  You're going to have be more specific here.

Quote
To pretend there is no connection between them is stupidity, cognisant dissonance, or complicity - by proxy or otherwise.
To say that vaccines are clearly harmful but being unable to produce useful evidence is probably more indicative of stupidity or dissonance than anything you describe.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 14, 2014, 03:25:29 PM
Nice work, capzro!
Seriously.  The chemtrail conspiracy to you represents a pinnacle of rational thought?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 14, 2014, 04:04:10 PM
Yawn.  You claim to have some argument about CDC whistleblowers and covering up the idea that vaccines cause autism.  However you won't say who they are for some entirely undisclosed reason.  The only well known one (Thompson) doesn't make your point.

This is more like you not being willing to step into the ring.
I just assumed you were trolling or stupid here.  If you were to remove all the chemicals from your body you would be dead.  So since you're running away from your "there are some whistleblowers who clearly indict the CDC but I am mentally impaired from identifying them" argument.  You're going to have be more specific here.
To say that vaccines are clearly harmful but being unable to produce useful evidence is probably more indicative of stupidity or dissonance than anything you describe.
Maybe it is not chemicals per se, but chemicals that are mass produced in a factory environment that make him leary.  Naturally occurring substances such as arsenic, selenium, or the sweet juices from oleander, and fox glove plants may all be fine in his book.  It may be that he wishes to avoid industrially processed substances such as dihydrogen oxide produced in a giant plant in Olancha California.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 14, 2014, 04:26:03 PM
The information relating to the whistleblowers is freely available to everyone on the net.

This troll is dodging all reports and making sh!t up when he talks himself into a corner.

You can't corner a troll...they will simply digress into word splicing, no matter how many times they contradict themselves.

This is how a pedophile pope still gets to play the role of the "holy father"...they control mainstream media.

But...they don't control the net (yet)...which is where the trolls come in, paid to muddy the waters.

This is compounded by unwitting and uneducated dupes (not paid) who, in order to feel relevant on various forums will actually back the trolls up.

Notice how the troll of the day continually side steps the presence of the Georgia Guidestones monument that his pedo pals have constructed as a testament of their depopulation agenda...of which their vaccination GMO and chemtrail programs are all components.

There just aren't any trolls who can dismiss this...which is why they avoid the issue, and are left to resort to moonbat tin foil hat comments.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 14, 2014, 06:09:49 PM
The information relating to the whistleblowers is freely available to everyone on the net.
However last time I looked on the internet I used Thompsons name and that wasn't the name you are imagining.  Sadly there are no websites that say "This is the list of people that Cap-Z-ro is thinking of" I checked.  So why not stop hiding?
Quote
This troll is dodging all reports
All reports of what?  Cap-Z-ro's list of whistleblowers?  Again there's no website for that.
Quote
and making sh!t up when he talks himself into a corner.
What have I made up?
Quote
You can't corner a troll...they will simply digress into word splicing, no matter how many times they contradict themselves.
Sadly for your argument.  Nothing like that happened here. You did want to go on about my use of the word "cite" - does that make you a troll?
Quote
paid to muddy the waters.
So you really honestly and truly believe that I get some monetary compensation for making you look stupid?  How much do you think it is?  $50/hr?  $20/hr?
Quote
Notice how the troll of the day continually side steps
I'm just not interested in getting into a discussion about something that is unnecessary to your point that "vaccines are not very safe".  If you're saying that it is impossible to make your point without talking about chemtrails.  Then all you have to do is say so.  If you can make your point without referencing chemtrails then please do so.

You can dance around the ring as much as you like.  You can even namecall as much as you want. As long as you stay outside of the ring you're safe.  Let me know when you want to step inside. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 14, 2014, 06:12:01 PM
It may be that he wishes to avoid industrially processed substances such as dihydrogen oxide produced in a giant plant in Olancha California.
The dihydrogen conspiracy is the worst.  Thankfully there are guys on the internet who sell dihydrogen oxide filters.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 14, 2014, 06:35:09 PM
The dihydrogen conspiracy is the worst.  Thankfully there are guys on the internet who sell dihydrogen oxide filters.

Believe it or not, several schools actually banned its use and sent a letter to parents telling them about this ban.
Later, when someone explained what it was, they decided to remove the ban.  (I'll bet they felt stupid)

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 14, 2014, 06:41:35 PM
Hey gang !

I got a novel idea...lets just ignore the satan worshiping murderous pedophiles trying to poison us.

Oh wait...some "people" here are doing that already.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 14, 2014, 07:10:28 PM
the satan worshiping murderous pedophiles trying to poison us.
So do they have to be murderous and Satan worshiping and pedophiles?  Can they just be one? or two out of three?

My offer still stands, any time you want to step in the ring about this whole CDC whistleblower thing I'll be happy to punch your lights out (metaphorically). :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 14, 2014, 08:45:26 PM
As I have stated in the past...do not take my word on anything - do your own due diligence and research things yourself.

Put the pieces together and then look at all the players and their connections with one another.

Look at how the tainted former executives of drug companies and other toxic industries are now employed by the CDC and other govt agencies.

Its all there in front of you...all you have to do is take the time to look.

And certainly don't take the word of this paid troll.

The reports of govt paying disinfo trolls to enter public forums is available on the net is there too...but not on their propaganda TV machine.

Check out the 'Franklin cover up' and read what these murderous pedophiles masquerading as govt leaders are doing to all those missing children.

Yep, the same ones behind the 'Georgia Guidestones'.

Lets focus on the entire picture, instead of the zit on the ass of the gorilla in the room...as this troll wants you to do.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 14, 2014, 09:11:38 PM


And certainly don't take the word of this paid troll.



Lets focus on the entire picture, instead of the zit on the ass of the gorilla in the room...as this troll wants you to do.

Regards...

Now Cap has some fixation on gorilla's asses.  Incredible.  Instead of answering a simple question, he always falls back on pedophiles, gay references and now, the ass of a gorilla.  There is a real pattern here.  His response, because he can't help himself, will no doubt contain some sexual ref. of one kind or another.  Just watch.

Bill

PS  I made $.00035 by making this post.  The drug companies offered me free drugs, but, I went with the money.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 14, 2014, 10:19:28 PM
My guess is, if in the unlikely event he could get paid for anything other that stalking people he wood be working for all the booze he can drink.

But, after being forced into retirement due to in gross competence, at least being the official Groom of the Stool for the king lieon will at least provide him with all the fudge he can eat.

And by 'gross competence', I mean that he's both gross and competent.

*apologizes to Groom of Stool for using big words*

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 14, 2014, 10:23:14 PM
My guess is, if in the unlikely event he could get paid for anything other that stalking people he wood be working for all the booze he can drink.

But, after being forced into retirement due to in gross competence, at least being the official Groom of the Stool for the king lieon will at least provide him with all the fudge he can eat.

And by 'gross competence', I mean that he's both gross and competent.

*apologizes to Groom of Stool for using big words*

Regards...

And there you have it folks.  So predictable.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 14, 2014, 10:30:23 PM
When alluding to an asshole, the term sh!t wood be bound to come up more often than knot-hole.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 14, 2014, 10:47:32 PM
The Trolls who have joined the discussion are
well versed/schooled in the tactics of deflection
and disruption. ::)

While it is obvious that they are enjoying themselves
immensely as they go about their 'business' it is
unlikely that they've deterred anyone from examining
the question of vaccine safety.

It is more likely that they've turned people away from
their AGENDA by means of their excessive cleverness,
arrogance and hubris.  Playing the 'role' as a 'bad boy'
most often turns people off and encourages them to
redouble their efforts to find Truth. :o

Some Trolls just don't know when to give up on the
provocations. 8)

 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 14, 2014, 10:55:33 PM
When alluding to an asshole, the term sh!t wood be bound to come up more often than knot-hole.

Regards...

Now it would ( note the correct use of the word would and not wood as Cap often confuses ) seem that he is into self-flagellation.  Perhaps this is because he can not answer a simple question relating to the topic at hand.  Who are these mystery whistle blowers?  What did they say?  Can their names not be revealed because...

A: They do not exist.
B: Revealing their names might place them in grave danger.

I vote for A.

Unless Cap-z-ro answers a few simple, direct questions relating to this topic, I will continue to believe it is A.  Trying to find his imaginary whistle blowers on the net is fruitless.  (See choice A above)

I say again Cap, if you think vaccinations are killing you then, do not take them.  As I said, I don't, but for different reasons.  As of now,we still have this choice.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 15, 2014, 12:01:35 AM
I'd say he's one more vaccination short of a chemical lobotomy.

Lets just hope the chemical vasectomy vaccinations had the desired effect.

The last thing we need are more progeny from defective units.

I realize that the Darwin effect usually eliminates them, but sometimes it just that takes too long...as in his case.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 15, 2014, 12:33:32 AM
I'd say he's one more vaccination short of a chemical lobotomy.

Lets just hope the chemical vasectomy vaccinations had the desired effect.

The last thing we need are more progeny from defective units.

I realize that the Darwin effect usually eliminates them, but sometimes it just that takes too long...as in his case.

Regards...

It would have been shorter for you to just type: "I can't answer any questions on the phantom whistle blowers because they only exist in my mind."

So, you are not refusing to answer these simple questions...the plain truth is that you can't.

OK,got it.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 15, 2014, 01:20:03 AM
Quote
OK,got it.

Bill



Well, we can all be sure of one thing at least..."it" doesn't mean sound judgment or common sense.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 15, 2014, 02:10:34 AM
As I have stated in the past...do not take my word on anything
It's interesting that you don't want people to take your word but you don't offer ANYTHING else.  Doesn't that mean the sum total of what you offer here is...nothing?  You sure don't cite studies, provide evidence or support your points.

Quote
Its all there in front of you...all you have to do is take the time to look.
Dude.  If it's so easy to find evidence which is very, very, very clear and compelling.  Why can't you just post it here?
The fact that you can't tends to increase the likelihood that you're just blowing smoke.
Quote
And certainly don't take the word of this paid troll.
So again, you absolutely and truly think someone sends me a cheque for posting here.

Quote
Lets focus on the entire picture, instead of the zit on the ass of the gorilla in the room...as this troll wants you to do.
Dude.  You brought up a point about vaccines and now you whine and complain when I want to address that point.

Again, any time you want to step into that ring...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 15, 2014, 02:22:07 AM
The Trolls who have joined the discussion are
well versed/schooled in the tactics of deflection
and disruption. ::)
So are you going to tell me how much time you spent attempting to refute the information presented in your ten minute video?

Am I correct in assuming that your answer is: Zero?

Quote
unlikely that they've deterred anyone from examining the question of vaccine safety.
Good.  Because that's exactly the question I am attempting to promote.   If it wasn't for people like you, Cap-Z-ro and allcanadian providing virtually no information that would actually help people to make a rational decision.

Quote
arrogance and hubris
Don't you think someone like you who spends no time in refuting the information you present to other people is the most careless and arrogant person of all?

Quote
encourages them to redouble their efforts to find Truth. :o
I hope people do.  However I also hope they notice that people like you, capt-z-ro and allcanadian are the most categorically useless people when one is concerned in finding the truth.

Seriously you claim to provide "food for thought" but you simply spew back things that you googled which happen to agree with your existing bigotry.  You spend no time trying to refute the information you present and then have nothing but dismissals and conspiracy theories when someone disagrees with your nonsense.   Even though the only reason you agree with the article, video, etc...is because you never spent any time trying to see that it's wrong. :)

Given that you are unwilling or incapable of attempting to refute your own ideas.  How could anyone ever believe that you have any interest in truth (capital T or lower-case)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 15, 2014, 02:35:39 AM
Rule #1 a and 1 b, when dealing with trolls.

Don't feed...or appease them.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 15, 2014, 02:42:02 AM
Rule #1 a and 1 b, when dealing with trolls.
So you've pretty much run out of things to say.  Are you off to pretend you know something about physics or chemistry now?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 15, 2014, 03:20:08 AM
For those who may not have viewed it yet,
The Fluoride Deception (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ly_QP4rGczo) falls into the category
of 'must see.'  The extent to which corruption
and deceptions have become intrinsic to
American Science is disturbing, to say the least.

The role of the internet in making possible the
awakening of the people by enabling them to
'see' the deceptions of government was actually
foretold in prophecy.  We are living in that time.
The Awakening (also referred to as the Apocalypse)
is well underway.

How readers may choose to respond to the food for
thought offered is entirely up to them;  they are
free to pursue additional research if they desire
or they may dismiss it if they desire.

Spoon-Feeding isn't necessary at all for those who
have a serious hunger for Truth.  It is essential
that their powers of discernment develop over
time as they digest information while verifying
its Truth.  We must learn to make decisions
independently in accordance with our beliefs.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 15, 2014, 03:29:04 AM
For those who may not have viewed it yet,
The Fluoride Deception (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ly_QP4rGczo) falls into the category
of 'must see.'
...and how much time did you spend attempting to refute that. :) Again, my guess is zero. 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 15, 2014, 03:36:29 AM
So you've pretty much run out of things to say.  Are you off to pretend you know something about physics or chemistry now?


Another dimwitt who has never had an original thought.

'MISSION ACCOMPLISHED'...to quote an infamous dimwitt.

Regards...


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 15, 2014, 03:38:28 AM
For those who may not have viewed it yet,
The Fluoride Deception (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ly_QP4rGczo) falls into the category
of 'must see.'  The extent to which corruption
and deceptions have become intrinsic to
American Science is disturbing, to say the least.

The role of the internet in making possible the
awakening of the people by enabling them to
'see' the deceptions of government was actually
foretold in prophecy.  We are living in that time.
The Awakening (also referred to as the Apocalypse)
is well underway.

How readers may choose to respond to the food for
thought offered is entirely up to them;  they are
free to pursue additional research if they desire
or they may dismiss it if they desire.

Spoon-Feeding isn't necessary at all for those who
have a serious hunger for Truth.  It is essential
that their powers of discernment develop over
time as they digest information while verifying
its Truth.  We must learn to make decisions
independently in accordance with our beliefs.


Never mind its a nown kneurotoxin...drink up.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 15, 2014, 03:41:08 AM
Quote from: sarkeizen
...and how much time did you spend attempting to refute that. :) Again, my guess is zero.

Truth cannot be refuted although the Deceiver will
certainly try.

The Lie can be refuted by examination.  Each must do
that as they consider food for thought.  The refutation
will occur as beliefs are patterned after Truth.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 15, 2014, 03:41:41 AM
Another dimwitt who has never had an original thought.
Guess I'm right.  You really have run out of steam on the whole CDC whistleblower issue.  Your backing out of an argument you started doesn't win you any originality awards either.  Just sayin...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 15, 2014, 03:52:48 AM
Truth cannot be refuted although the Deceiver will certainly try.
So, in other words you didn't even try to refute any of the information you post here.  Right?  You didn't put even the most casual amount of effort into that.  Right?  Because otherwise that would, in your eyes make you the Deceiver.  Am I with you so far?

Of course that means you couldn't have thought critically about anything you've posted at all.  I think you can see that based on how much you are avoiding the issue.   So when you call something a "must see".  Does that phrase actually mean anything?  If it does it implies that you have evaluated the evidence - if you had evaluated the evidence then there would have been a chance for it to be found wanting.   However since only the Deceiver evaluates evidence the words "must see" can't convey any sense of value.

Making you something of a deceiver...thanks for admitting that. :) :) :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 15, 2014, 04:02:33 AM
Quote
Guess I'm right.  You really have run out of steam on the whole CDC whistleblower issue.  Your backing out of an argument you started doesn't win you any originality awards either.  Just sayin...


"A lie, if repeated will be accepted as truth,"


Quote from a psychopathic dimwitt

But the people eventually did catch on...and they tried to eliminate them.

And to this day the carnage continues...trolls are employed to facilitate an increase in the death rate.

But, alas they are losing the battle for minds, as more and more people have stopped listening and started looking at events from both sides, instead of the one sided mainstream propaganda packaged version.

Regards...


Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 15, 2014, 04:07:21 AM
Just to show that I do provide proof to support my assertions, here is where I find a lot of good insider intelligence...

govttrollswholiketosmelltheirownfarts.com

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 15, 2014, 04:19:03 AM
And to this day the carnage continues...trolls are employed to facilitate an increase in the death rate.
So again, I'd just like some clarification here.  You really think.  Completely and without reservation.  That I am actually getting real money for posting with you.  Someone who seems to believe in three conspiracy theories before breakfast.  Who thinks if you removed every chemical from your body you would be better off.   Someone who doesn't know the definition of the word "chemical".

Do you really think you have a high level of credibility.  I mean to the average person.  Do you think that if you just polled a few folk in the checkout line and asked them if they thought people who talked about "chemtrails" were a little crazy.  Do you think they would all say "no way, that's one of the most pressing issues today". 

Which of course leads to a problem with your whole "sarkeizen gets paid to make Capt-z-ro look more stupid than he usually does" idea.  Even to someone who's business is propaganda there's very little value in (further) discrediting you. 

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 15, 2014, 04:31:14 AM
Quote
Someone who doesn't know the definition of the word "chemical".

...your whole "sarkeizen gets paid to make Capt-z-ro look more stupid than he usually does" idea. 


*Cap schools frustrated troll below*

The word 'chemical' has at least 2 catagories...

1. Chemicals naturally produced in the body.
2. Chemicals which are man made.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 15, 2014, 04:52:01 AM
1. Chemicals naturally produced in the body.
2. Chemicals which are man made.
So for convenience, amusement and your love of bodily functions I'll call these types of substances #1 and #2.
So it seems like you're saying that any #1 is ok but any #2 is harmful.

But your body is, right now creating carbon dioxide a LETHAL poison.  If you were in a room with improper ventilation this chemical naturally created in your body (#1) would kill you and everyone in the room.   So what appears to be your argument about #1's is incorrect.

Not to mention that, according to you synthetic insulin is poison even to diabetics.  Since synthetic insulin is a #2 but diabetics would die (some rather quickly) without it.  This contradicts what appears to be your argument about #2's.

So you might want to work on your definition a bit...

Now of course your next step would be to do the same thing you did about the CDC whistleblower.  Pretend there is some other explanation and never provide it.   Let me know when you're done.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 15, 2014, 05:09:12 AM
Quote
...your body is, right now creating carbon dioxide a LETHAL poison.
 

A reader writes in to get in on the troll schooling gig.

"Toxicity is in the dosage".


Quote
Now of course your next step would be to do the same thing you did about the CDC whistleblower.  Pretend there is some other explanation and never provide it.   Let me know when you're done.

Another reader wrote in to get in on the troll schooling gig also.

" When a guy comes forward and confesses to his role in a conspiracy that destroyed the lives of thousands of children" carries a lot of weight with me.  He even set himself up for potential lawsuits which could easily wipe him out.

I mean, who does that anyway???

A man with a guilty conscience telling the truth, THAT is who!!!

Pardon me for not ignoring my common sense. "


Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 15, 2014, 05:17:34 AM
"Toxicity is in the dosage".
If that's true generally then your original distinctions don't matter.  If it's not then you need to refine your definitions.
Your move.
Quote
When a guy
Which guy?  You never can seem to say.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 15, 2014, 05:24:30 AM
Cap's Report:

If that's true generally then your original distinctions don't matter.  If it's not then you need to refine your definitions.

1st reader refuses invitation to feed or appease troll.


Quote
Your move.Which guy?  You never can seem to say.

Predictably, 2nd reader also refuses invitation to feed or appease troll.


Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 15, 2014, 05:27:41 AM
...
Yeah.  I know, you got nothing.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 15, 2014, 05:31:15 AM
This just in...

Readers prefer to address trolls through a 3rd party...which is understandable, I'm starting to get skin rashes from all the showers.

Readers also seem to enjoy when Cap refers to himself in 3rd person...like I just did.

Thank you, thank you folks...I'm here all week - try the veal.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 15, 2014, 05:40:01 AM
Cap getting real with the readership:

My grand pappy usta say, never roll around in the mud with pigs...because after a while you'll find out that the pigs are having more fun than you.

I do my best to keep that in mind...altho I confess to have fallen short of the glory from time to time.

Regards...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 15, 2014, 05:40:42 AM
Readers prefer to address trolls through a 3rd party...
Profitis does this whole "I like to pretend that I'm speaking for someone other than myself" thing too.

Does anyone buy that Capt-mo-ron is speaking for anyone but himself?   Didn't think so.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 15, 2014, 05:44:37 AM
Cap whispers to readers...psst, do you think he really doesn't know that he's a character in a comedy routine yet ?

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 15, 2014, 05:48:32 AM
...
Still nothing.  :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 15, 2014, 06:07:21 AM
*points troll in direction of nobodytakesyouseriously.com*

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 15, 2014, 06:19:40 AM

Your move.Which guy?  You never can seem to say.


A 3rd reader commented:

"Does it really matter what his name was???"


This reader also would like to keep their distance...and also likes it when ol' Cap does the 3rd person thing...like he just did.

Hmmm, wood that qualify as a 4th person reference ?

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 15, 2014, 02:55:13 PM
A 3rd entirely made up reader commented:

"Does it really matter what his name was???"
Sure.  For all I know this is Thompson or someone else who's impression of the data was formed by Hooker's analysis...or perhaps it's you just making things up.
On one side of your mouth you say "don't take my word for it" but on the other you say "as far as MY argument goes I won't give you any details to make a decision or investigate".

This is a good example of the kind of misleading behavior which stems from pretending you have an argument but being unwilling to present it.  On one hand you want to act like you want to discuss the issues but you bring nothing to discuss.  It's similar to those people who excuse spreading misinformation with words like "food for thought" or "raising awareness"
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 15, 2014, 03:06:07 PM
As we all know "discussion" is food for trolls.

*feels troll hunger pains*

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 15, 2014, 03:11:41 PM
As we all know "discussion" is food for trolls.
I've been nothing but honest in my willingness to discuss a few issues around vaccines.  As I said I'm even happy to change my position if I can see some strong evidence for the idea that vaccines are as harmful as some people say (allcanadian said some seriously injure or kill 1 in 20).

Are you admitting now that you have no intent to discuss anything?  Doesn't that make you the troll?
Quote
*feels troll hunger pains*
That sounds like you're admitting you're the troll here. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 15, 2014, 04:26:38 PM
*plays 'Melancholy Baby' for troll on the swinlola*

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 15, 2014, 05:27:18 PM
*plays 'Melancholy Baby' for troll on the swinlola*
So out of curiosity what do you think you are accomplishing by avoiding discussion on a topic you brought up?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 15, 2014, 07:03:35 PM
References???  Because the CDC asserts that the body eventually completely eliminates the ethylmercury in Thimerosal and therefore no mercury from Thimerosal accumulates...


*blames other troll for Bringing up CDC*


Caps accepts responsibility for talking bringing up another CDC...the Cognitive Dissonance Club.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 15, 2014, 10:46:29 PM
*blames other troll for Bringing up CDC*
Well *this* was you...
Lets call a Mulligan on the evidence the so called CDC "scientists" hid, which showed their "very safe" vaccines were causing autism.
So again, you brought this up and then didn't want to talk about it. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 15, 2014, 11:15:52 PM
Well *this* was you...So again, you brought this up and then didn't want to talk about it. :)


*Beitknown to one and all that Cap denies any affiliation between hisgoodself and the Cap-mor-on character*

Regards...


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 15, 2014, 11:28:02 PM
*Beitknown to one and all that Cap denies any affiliation between hisgoodself and the Cap-mor-on character*
Seems like you're one in the same.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 16, 2014, 12:04:29 AM
I believe forum owner Stefan still has the video from the last ou.com xmas party showing both myself and the other Cap tossing trolls outside into a snow bank.

The Cap-mor-on member may knot be the sharpest peak on the scope, so to speak, but he knows a troll when he sees one.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 16, 2014, 12:15:53 AM
The Cap-Z-ro member may knot be the sharpest peak on the scope,
That's an exaggeration.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 16, 2014, 12:59:58 AM
That's an exaggeration.


Notice that the troll has now taken to altering my the text of my statements.

Niiice.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 16, 2014, 01:15:11 AM
altering my the text of my statements.
Text is being altered but the meaning is exactly the same. :) :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 16, 2014, 01:24:35 AM
Text is being altered but the meaning is exactly the same. :) :)

I wood submit that anyone comfortable with forgery...which is what altering someone's text is, wood also be comfortable with the CDC doing the same.

Are we dealing with a CDC scumbag here ?

Well, the zero integrity level is certainly identical.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 16, 2014, 01:35:20 AM
I wood submit that anyone comfortable with forgery...which is what altering someone's text is
Nope.  Wrong again.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 16, 2014, 01:43:51 AM
Nope.  Wrong again.


Forgery and fraud are twins...also criminal in nature.

What other criminal acts has this miscreant committed to further the agenda ?

Regards...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 16, 2014, 01:51:05 AM
So again I ask.  What do you gain by bringing something up like the CDC whistleblower then refusing to talk about it?

Seems like you are the troll.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 16, 2014, 01:57:06 AM
So again I ask.  What do you gain by bringing something up like the CDC whistleblower then refusing to talk about it?

Seems like you are the troll.

A number of readers wrote in on falsifying documents and wood like to me to keep foot on the troll's throat.

If you play ring around the rosy with a troll long enough they reveal themselves sooner or later.

*troll officially outed*


Regards...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 16, 2014, 02:01:32 AM
So are you saying that you refuse to participate in a discussion surrounding your ideas about CDC whistleblowers?  I'll take anything that doesn't directly address this specific point as you bowing out.  That will make it easy for you to save face.  ok? :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 16, 2014, 02:08:46 AM
An inquiring mind wood like to know if the troll has personally injected any baby's...and if so, how many became autistic shortly thereafter ?

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 16, 2014, 02:17:34 AM
Well you're welcome to step into the ring anytime...thanks for making yourself look bad. :) :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 16, 2014, 02:27:42 AM
A thought in a paraphrase...

Ask not for whom the troll toils.
The troll toils for the CDC.

Regards...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 16, 2014, 03:00:24 AM


I wood submit that anyone comfortable with forgery...which is what altering someone's text is, wood also be comfortable with the CDC doing the same.



Two in one post...wow.

Quote

A number of readers wrote in on falsifying documents and wood like to me to keep foot on the troll's throat.


Another one.

Quote

An inquiring mind wood like to know if the troll has personally injected any baby's...and if so, how many became autistic shortly thereafter ?





Ummmm...Mr I Have Many Patents And Am Smarter Than Everyone, it is would, not wood...OK? Look it up.  Once is a typo, but 4 times in the last 3 posts shows your ignorance for all to see.  It makes me wonder who filled out the patent apps for you, IF you actually have any, which I doubt.  Unless you got a patent for wood working, ha ha.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 16, 2014, 03:53:14 AM
Well it looks like we're down a troll.

But...we still have the ass kisser...likely oblivious to whats happened, due to limited intelligence or lacking the foresight to catch up with the latest developments before posting.

I'm too stupid to present anything on the forum like him and another member who's ass he also kisses, have done...because they's "BUILDERS"...they left out the 'hylk hylk' at the end.

They were just begging for it, so I trumped them with the fact that I did all the work on my Canadian and US Patents...adding that they never had an original thought to call their own in their lives.

He didn't catch on that the battle had been lost...because he's too drunk on his on stupidity...or maybe its from huffing his own beer farts, who knows.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 16, 2014, 03:54:05 AM

*puts another knotch in troll belt*
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 16, 2014, 03:59:17 AM
*attempts to draw troll back into thread*


Is there anyone out there who is able to compile and compare the stats of vaccinated baby's and IV drug users ?

I'd be inclined to prognosticate that the IV drug users wood have more home runs...but the baby's wood have a much higher on base average.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 16, 2014, 04:18:26 AM
Well it looks like we're down a troll.

But...we still have the ass kisser...likely oblivious to whats happened, due to limited intelligence or lacking the foresight to catch up with the latest developments before posting.

I'm too stupid to present anything on the forum like him and another member who's ass he also kisses, have done...because they's "BUILDERS"...they left out the 'hylk hylk' at the end.

They were just begging for it, so I trumped them with the fact that I did all the work on my Canadian and US Patents...adding that they never had an original thought to call their own in their lives.

He didn't catch on that the battle had been lost...because he's too drunk on his on stupidity...or maybe its from huffing his own beer farts, who knows.

Regards...

Have you helped design and build parts that have flown on the Space Shuttle?  (STS 60, look it up)  Have you helped to design and build parts for the original Mars Lander?  Were you on the engineering team that designed the first fully functional ceramic springs? Did you machine the sapphire parts for the very first implantable hearing aid?   Did you machine ceramic parts for the F-16?  No?  Didn't think so.  Well, I have done these things and a lot more, and, I know the difference between "wood" and "would".

I have 72 videos on Youtube of my projects and experiments. 

All you seem to have is your mouth, and some weird fixation with asses and farting and being a troll while calling everyone else a troll.  If you think that is a good way to show your "intelligence", then you may want to rethink this a little bit.  All you have done thus far is to show how much you do NOT know.
My guess is that you will continue to show everyone just how much you do not know.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 16, 2014, 05:26:57 AM
Somehow, I rather doubt that anybody too dense to know when someone is intentionally using a homonym form of a word was anything more relevant than a janitor on any of those jobs.

Especially when I regularly bastardize words and phrases to suit the occasion...in my many COMEDY dissertations.

I can train a chimp to play a simple tune on a piano but that doesn't make him a pianist.

Getting in a pissing match with an ass kisser is an endless undertaking...I showed the ass kisser ol Cap wasn't as stupid as he hoped.

And he still doesn't realize his troll's ass has bailed.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 16, 2014, 06:16:43 AM


Getting in a pissing match with an ass kisser is an endless undertaking...I showed the ass kisser ol Cap wasn't as stupid as he hoped.

And he still doesn't realize his troll's ass has bailed.

Regards...

Still showing your ass fixation I see.  No one here is surprised.

Oh, I was the Design Engineer on those and many other projects, not the janitor.  I can see if that is what you do for a living you would make that assumption.  No shame in being a janitor, you should be proud of it.

Bill

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 16, 2014, 06:54:13 AM

Whats he still doing here the troll who's ass he was kissing has vamoosed ?

Hope he doesn't think mine is kissable at some point.

Regards...

*Cap ponders ways to avoid using word ass when confronted with ass kisser*

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 16, 2014, 03:51:31 PM
Another new 'vaccine scam' whistleblower has now come forward.

This time its the lead developer.


" Dr. Harper also authored many of the published, scholarly papers about the vaccines.  She is now the latest in a long string of experts who are pressing the red alert button on the devastating consequences and irrelevancy of these vaccines.  Dr. Harper made her surprising confession at the 4th International Converence on Vaccination which took place in Reston, Virginia.  "

http://universalmindradio.com/2014/12/13/lead-developer-of-hpv-vaccines-comes-clean-warns-parents-young-girls-its-all-a-giant-deadly-scam/


Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on December 16, 2014, 05:01:15 PM
@Cap
Quote

At the time of writing, 44 girls are officially known to have died from
these vaccines.  The reported side effects include Guillian Barré Syndrome
(paralysis lasting for years, or permanently — sometimes eventually causing
suffocation), lupus, seizures, blood clots, and brain inflammation.  Parents are
usually not made aware of these risks.  Dr. Harper, the vaccine developer,
claimed that she was speaking out, so that she might finally be able to sleep at
night.
Quote
“The benefit to public health is nothing, there is no reduction in cervical cancers, they are just postponed, unless the
protection lasts for at least 15 years, and over 70% of all sexually active
females of all ages are vaccinated.” 
That was a great link even though I found the article in itself very disturbing. Personally I cannot reconcile how a parent could act so irresponsibly while claiming to care for their child. I think we are going to see more and more professionals coming forward as they see their peers being open and honest about what is really happening behind the well orchestrated PR campaigns by the corporations. Greed is the primary motivator here and that is one thing I'm sure everyone can understand, I think these corporation leaders need to put in jail to set an example for the rest.

AC
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 16, 2014, 05:22:46 PM
Your post is at least close to what you were talking about so I'll respond until you won't answer questions.
Another new 'vaccine scam' whistleblower has now come forward.
Nope.  This article is primarily copypasta from material as early as 2009.  Sheep like you don't care and don't investigate.
Quote
This time its the lead developer.
Nope.  Diane Harper was not the "lead developer" there is probably no such person in a research team.  Nor is she a leading expert.  She was a site investigator one of many.  Strike #2.
Quote
"Dr. Harper made her surprising confession at the 4th International Converence on Vaccination which took place in Reston, Virginia."
...in 2009.

However if you think so much of her opinion you might consider this quote she made shortly after one of the earlier articles:
Quote from: Diane Harper
I did not say that Cervarix was as deadly as cervical cancer. I did not say that Cervarix could be riskier or more deadly than cervical cancer. I did not say that Cervarix was controversial, I stated that Cervarix is not a ‘controversial drug’. I did not ‘hit out’ – I was contacted by the press for facts. And this was not an exclusive interview.”
This was even quoted in a linked article (although it was framed as if she was being attacked but there is no evidence of this alleged attack). Also 
Quote from: Ben Goldacer who talked to Diane after that article was published
Professor Harper has complained to the PCC. “I fully support the HPV vaccines,” she says. “I believe that in general they are safe in most women. I told the Express all of this.

I don't know Dr. Harper but I've now listened to excerpts from the conference and from other anti-vaccine propaganda.  Her concern appears to be twofold one being that cervical carcinomas are slow developing and that only 5% of infected women have invasive carcinomas.  The problem with her reasoning is by the time you reach that detection level your 5 year survival is at best around 1 in 2.   So 2% of HPV infected women will die needlessly.   According to the article she has a concern about the length of time the vaccine remains active but I haven't been able to find a place where her quote isn't broken up into tiny pieces.    The idea that a vaccine would last for 15 years is far from impossible in a similar way that aquired immunity does.  If the data starts to show a drop in seroposivity you can easily add a booster to the cycle.

I think this is about the time you pick some other nugget from the article and pretend that your argument was all about that. :)  Perhaps you want to start with the VAERS bit - which as far as I can see she didn't actually say.  Since now that we're straight on efficacy you probably want to pretend you know something about harm.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 16, 2014, 05:23:25 PM
@CapThat was a great link
Estimated time allcanadian spent researching this: 0m 0s
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on December 16, 2014, 06:13:15 PM
How do we block other members posts again?, I can't find it in settings... does anyone know where to find it?

AC
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 16, 2014, 06:27:34 PM
How do we block other members posts again?, I can't find it in settings... does anyone know where to find it?
I truly mean no offense but seriously why didn't you spend any time attempting to refute the ideas presented?  Any reason other than you already agreed with them?   Why is that not anywhere close to a priority for SeaMonkey, Capt-Mo-Ron and yourself?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 16, 2014, 08:09:02 PM
In true CDC style, this CDC troll has already been caught altering my text for his own purposes.

What other text from others is he altering is now the question ?

If...the whistleblower really has recanted, I can think of 2 good reasons for the about face.

1. money
2. threats

I can only think of 1 good reason for her initial words...guilty remorse.

Allcanadian, you correctly identified greed as a prime motive for the CDC altering their test results to further their sick agenda.

Greed will get them in the door, the ghoulish goal in this processes is depopulation

There are no shortage of psychopaths like the nazi Mengala in the cabal...and there are endless ghoulish methods used along the way.

Greed is a great motivating factor to attract participants no doubt though.

Regards...


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 16, 2014, 08:22:35 PM
If...the whistleblower really has recanted, I can think of 2 good reasons for the about face.
Actually if you read the quote you'll see that it does not appear to be a recant.   She complained to the PCC.  That's the Press Complaints Commission about the Express's handing of the story containing what appeared to be her coming out against HPV vaccines.  So you're wrong again.
Quote
I can only think
Doubtful.
Quote
1 good reason for her initial words...guilty remorse.
Again if you spent even a few minutes researching rather than uncritically accepting you would also find that it's more likely she was misrepresented at least partially.  In fact she denies that she gave the talk at IPCV so she "could sleep at night" you can find this information in several locations including an interview on an anti-vaccine propaganda show.

See instead of turning your poorly researched idea into yet another conspiracy theory.  You could actually listen to the things she has said and her criticisms of HPV vaccines and then have a position actually based on information.

Ah well... As I've said you put no effort into investigating this before posting it.  So as SeaMonkey talks about things like the "search for Truth".  You can rest assured that you're not part of it. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on December 16, 2014, 09:51:35 PM
I think this about sums it up....
http://time.com/3634443/cards-against-humanity-poop-black-friday/#3634443/cards-against-humanity-poop-black-friday/ (http://time.com/3634443/cards-against-humanity-poop-black-friday/#3634443/cards-against-humanity-poop-black-friday/)
Quote
And so Cards Against Humanity decided to create a media spectacle of its own
by pulling all of its products off its site and only selling “Bullshit” — which
Temkin says sold out in less than two hours
Now one has to ask why 30,000 people would buy a box of BS at $6 a pop which was labelled as BS and disclosed as BS?. I think this pretty much explains everything doesn't it?, I mean we really don't have to debate this any futher. Why we could tell people something was killing them, we could offer proof it was and I bet there would still be a line up of people willing to pay for it, lol, priceless.

AC
 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 16, 2014, 10:18:35 PM
I think
If you had I'm sure it would be front page news.
Quote
Now one has to ask why 30,000 people would buy a box of BS at $6 a pop which was labelled as BS and disclosed as BS?
Well while it was clearly labeled CAH has a history of pranking customers and having a sense of humor about their product.  Clearly that and the culture surrounding black friday was enough to cause some people to think that CAH was selling something they wanted.   Perhaps some just thought it was a novelty item.  People have sold poop on the internet before.
Quote
I think this pretty much explains everything doesn't it?, I mean we really don't have to debate this any futher.
Please, please don't characterize what you do as "debate".  You devalue the word.
Quote
Why we could tell people something was killing them, we could offer proof it was and I bet there would still be a line up of people willing to pay for it
In specific cases this is not much of an exaggeration.  For example tobacco is exactly what you describe - in fact it's far deadlier than your made-up 5% figure for "some vaccines".  However it's helped considerably by being rather addictive and legal.  However this does not hold for vaccines.  In fact since Wakefield and various other people shilling anti-vaccine nonsense there is a detectable decrease in vaccinations.   Not to mention that you have let your mask slip a bit there.  A few posts back you were "let people make their own decisions" now you seem to be saying that there is proof that vaccines kill people (presumably in some way that the diseases they protect against don't)

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 16, 2014, 11:19:16 PM
Please, please don't characterize what you do as "debate".  You devalue the word.


Yeah AC...if you want to score points in a debate you must alter your opponents text like the CDC troll does.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 16, 2014, 11:33:04 PM
Yeah AC...if you want to score points in a debate you
...have to debate.  i.e. have a point, support it and be able to respond rationally to criticism. 

Fixed that for you. :) :) :)

Did you notice that when you stepped into the ring you had to leave pretty quickly. :) :) but hey if you can make an actual point about guardsil or cdc whistleblowers.  I'm listening...or are you backing down (aka talking about anything other than the point you brought up) if the later.  I think that was a one punch KO. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on December 16, 2014, 11:55:51 PM
@Cap
Quote
Yeah AC...if you want to score points in a debate you must alter your opponents
text like the CDC troll does.
Regards...
You know I use to enjoy the banter with spam posters but after a while it's just seems lame because it is pointless. There is no debate in it nor is it informitive in any way its just ridiculous so I generally opt out of the conversation. I liked your last link by the way and facebooked it, thanks again.

AC
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 17, 2014, 12:08:16 AM
@CapYou know I use to enjoy the banter with spam posters but after a while it's just seems lame because it is pointless.
You must be the straight man on this comedy team.
Quote
There is no debate in it
Dude.  There's no debate because you don't know how!  Make a point, support it and be ready to respond to rational critique.
Quote
nor is it informitive in any way
Seriously?  Cap-Z-ro posts a link to an article that he has barely read.  I point out that he didn't even read the parts it linked to which had quotes from the subject of the article saying exactly the opposite of what Cap-Z-ro's article said about her.  Pointing that out adding no information?

I also provided quotes from Ben Goldacre who actually TALKED to the person in question quoted her complaining about the way the article was presented.  Also the article was from a source which gets sued for libel a lot (this information is in a link from the very article that Cap-Z-ro posted).  Was that no information there?

I also provided Dr. Harpers concerns about Gardasil which I got from an anti-vaccine radio interview.  I provided my counter point.  Again you are actually saying there is no information in any of my response(s) at all?  No potential possible alternative viewpoint you could somehow divine from all that?   This is why it's hard to take you seriously.
Quote
I liked your last link by the way and facebooked it, thanks again.
See I have to think that you're either just part of this Abbott and Costello trolling team or you're hoping that making yourself look silly somehow bothers me. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 17, 2014, 12:14:37 AM

Fixed that for you. :) :) :)


Well...wasn't that nice of him ? 

Forgot one crucial detail tho...an apology...offered with faux sincerity of course.

Actually going back and UN-altering my text.

In other words, he got caught and is trying to cover it up.

Who does that remind you of...the CDC perhaps ?


A thief who, when caught returns the money is just a thief who gets caught and puts back what he stole.

Another Mulligan was it now ?

Maybe Dr Phil can rehabilitate him..he can hire a PR Firm to make it look as though he is remorseful and is now a changed man.

I'm afraid another moniker is in order...that troll name is used up.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 17, 2014, 12:19:40 AM
Well...wasn't that nice of him ? 
I'm a nice guy.  So is this your way of saying you're "out of ammo" with regard to the CDC whistleblower and now the Diane Harper alleged whistleblower points?  I'll take any response that doesn't directly further those arguments as you bowing out.  Ok?  Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 17, 2014, 01:36:18 AM
I'm a nice guy.  So is this your way of saying you're "out of ammo" with regard to the CDC whistleblower and now the Diane Harper alleged whistleblower points?  I'll take any response that doesn't directly further those arguments as you bowing out.  Ok?  Thanks. :)

Don't hold your breath.  CapZron has already made it quite clear that he did not even read the link he posted prior to posting, or he never would have posted it.

It is one thing to be a paid troll, but Cap does it for free...probably because his own life is boring I suppose.  Sad really.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 17, 2014, 02:00:17 AM
Vaccine Pandemic Targets the Innocent. (http://henrymakow.com/2014/12/Vaccine-Pandemic-Maims-the-Innocent.html)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 17, 2014, 02:18:06 AM
The Depopulation Agenda. (http://henrymakow.com/200202.html)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 17, 2014, 02:58:16 AM
A Letter to the New World Order (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PQFy2p3cJDc)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 17, 2014, 03:16:33 AM
The Depopulation Agenda. (http://henrymakow.com/200202.html)


I didn't get a chance (yet) to read the link you probably didn't read either SM, but maybe the fraudster troll will let us know if it concerns him and his bumboy...who won't be reading it either, but will nevertheless agree with ever he says...not that it really matters.

Is is that ass clowns advocating that launching a chemical and biological witches brew into the blood stream is a good idea.

Isn't it a paradox that governments have billions to spend on but pennies if any on organic based medicine...but instead force us to have a 'chemical and biological witches brew' injected into our bloodstream.

This is of course to stop an epidemic...but who get vaccinated shouldn't care about all us dummies who refuse the injection...but thy do, don't they...a WHOLE lot...to the point of forcibly injecting children...i wonder why that is ?

After all, the parents are obviously of low intellect, and so must be the children...so, why not let them cull themselves...I mean, how else are they going to meet their Georgia Guidestones objective of nine billion humans eliminated ?

Oh, I forgot, they really love bombing women and children, so that may take a while.

But in the end, I must confess to all, that also am an advocate of vaccines...for all willing to have them...this wood go a long way toward eliminating the need for literacy programs.

Regards...


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 17, 2014, 03:18:25 AM
The Depopulation Agenda. (http://henrymakow.com/200202.html)
While I think it's fascinating that the person who designed the game "scruples" is suffering under some kind of delusion.  It only takes four sentences before we read this: "We have been conditioned to scoff at the mention of conspiracy The idea that people might plan something without telling the intended victims is much too farfetched!"

We could break this down into a formal argument as such:

i) People scoff at the mention of conspiracy
ii) Conspiracy is only someone doing something without telling you
iii) People act against people without telling them every day.
iv) Therefore it is wrong to scoff at Conspiracy.

This is a logical fallacy.  The problem is that while the definition of "conspiracy" is a secret agreement to do something illegal.  That's not what people are probably scoffing at.  Popular conspiracy theories often require immense collusion and near perfect secrecy.  People tend to scoff at things like this simply because they can imagine how hard it is to pull of both of those things.

You could call this fallacious reasoning a number of things but I'd call it "implied equivocation". The kind of conspiracy we are about to talk about (and people scoff at) is not of the same order as planning a surprise party.

While this doesn't discredit Makaow's entire post and I apologize for not having read much further (Perhaps to the logically deficient Cap-Z-ro this says that I can't find a problem) but IMHO if you're REALLY interested in convincing people (and maybe he's not) and you're any good at arguing.  It wouldn't be hard to come up with a better opening.

But perhaps he has some awesome arguments later on...if I get bored I may check it out or if someone can pull out one of his stellar arguments I'd be willing to take a look.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 17, 2014, 03:29:15 AM

Quoted in part:

troll ...bumboy... ass clowns...forgot, they really love bombing women and children...wood...literacy programs.

Regards...

Wow, this boy really needs some help.  I really love how he, once again, incorrectly uses the word "wood" when he clearly means "would".  Then he mentions literacy programs.  This troll keeps slam dunking himself so, probably no need for me to comment further. He is showing his true colors so, I guess he should be complimented for that...but...damn.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 17, 2014, 03:38:31 AM
John Pilger on the sorry state of Western Journalism (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HAGyXF80u2g).

Why 'The Lie' is pushed with vigor and Truth is air-
brushed out of existence.

The 'Secret Power' is very busy with its AGENDA of
deception.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 17, 2014, 03:41:29 AM
@CapYou know I use to enjoy the banter with spam posters but after a while it's just seems lame because it is pointless. There is no debate in it nor is it informitive in any way its just ridiculous so I generally opt out of the conversation. I liked your last link by the way and facebooked it, thanks again.

AC

Your point is well taken AC...because people on forums such as this one are awakening and seeking answers, and I am aware trolls are hired to short circuit the learning curve in order to buy time until the inbred elite have total control of us, I feel duty bound to discredit them as they poop up...allowing people more room to grow.

I do have to admit to somewhat enjoying the chaos and flux routine I put them through before they slip up, revealing their true nature.

My life's experiences has suited me well for the task...enjoying a good laugh helps considerably.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 17, 2014, 03:52:21 AM


My life's experiences has suited me well for the task...enjoying a good laugh helps considerably.

Regards...

Should read: "have", due to the plural of experiences.

Please take a remedial course in English.  Not having command of the English language makes you an easy target in any debate, and casts doubt on any "facts" that you might put forward, should you choose to do so.

Bill

PS  I do agree with the good laugh part of your post as you have provided me with many...and I thank you.  More than once, I have spit moonshine all over my keyboard.  Hate to waste good shine but, the laughs were worth it.
Note:  There is no mercury in my moonshine.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 17, 2014, 03:58:51 AM
*the gramatical Groom of the Stool hath drool'd*

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 17, 2014, 04:12:33 AM
Pay no mind folkses...he's likely had won to many - vaccinations, that iss.

We's got us a IV zombie hear.

Its is probably not his fault tho...the first few were on his parents dime.

Regards...


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 17, 2014, 04:14:39 AM
Vaccine Pandemic Targets the Innocent. (http://henrymakow.com/2014/12/Vaccine-Pandemic-Maims-the-Innocent.html)
Since SeaMonkey lacks any kind of faculties to actually make an argument but loves to post link after link that he/she has barely read and certainly not taken even the slightest amount of time to try an refute.  I'll read what I can until I read something stupid.   Then I'll explain how stupid it is and why.  Then I'll ignore it unless some individual wants to draw my attention to a specific part.  In which case I'll try to respond.

So again a few sentences in we read this: "After years of mandating the cowpox vaccine in England and Japan, the death rates skyrocketed and the vaccines were eventually stopped."

Like a number of people here there's no reference at all.  It sounds a bit like Gary Null.  Anyway the mention of Japan was interesting...and wrong.  A 1910 public health record shows these numbers for smallpox deaths.

1898 40000
1899 4000
1900 721
1904 237
1905 3388
1906 109
1907 437

Vaccination history in Japan is complicated but before 1857 is was done in secret - Western medicine was still frowned upon (except for specific surgeries).  After it was done through private centers and from what I've read sometime during the Meiji restoration vaccination started to gain ground as a public service - perhaps around the 1890s and as you can see the death rate dropped even as vaccinations probably increased.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 17, 2014, 04:22:58 AM
Well...somebody prone to fraud sure seems to have a lot of time on his hands.

Or maybe a pipeline to the inbred elite's office staff.

Just sayin'

Regards...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 17, 2014, 04:44:53 AM
Well...somebody prone to fraud sure seems to have a lot of time on his hands.

Or maybe a pipeline to the inbred elite's office staff.

Just sayin'

Regards...

Wow!  Finally a post with real facts and verifiable citations and links.  What a retort.

Oh wait...

Never mind.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 17, 2014, 05:10:44 AM
Well...somebody prone to fraud sure seems to have a lot of time on his hands
Well I'll take that as you admitting you have nothing to say with regard to your prior two points.   Thanks again for embarrassing yourself. :)

Anytime you want to jump in that ring.  I'll be here to knock you out in one (metaphorical) punch. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on December 17, 2014, 05:14:15 AM
@Sark
Quote
Seriously?  Cap-Z-ro posts a link to an article that he has barely read.  I point out that he didn't even read the parts it linked to which had quotes from the subject of the article saying exactly the opposite of what Cap-Z-ro's article said about her.  Pointing that out adding no information?

I also provided quotes from Ben Goldacre who actually TALKED to the person in question quoted her complaining about the way the article was presented.  Also the article was from a source which gets sued for libel a lot (this information is in a link from the very article that Cap-Z-ro posted).  Was that no information there?

I also provided Dr. Harpers concerns about Gardasil which I got from an anti-vaccine radio interview.  I provided my counter point.  Again you are actually saying there is no information in any of my response(s) at all?  No potential possible alternative viewpoint you could somehow divine from all that?   This is why it's hard to take you seriously.

I read the article and found it interesting and informative as I said then you spam posted it with equally unsubstantiated claims and I ignored them... exactly which part of this do you not understand?. You seem to get all hot and bothered trying to prove yourself to the point of being obsessed by it.. No offence but instead of spam posting why not try to interact on a more personal level like a real person. I understand what your saying however I'm not convinced, no big deal, stay calm.

I also liked the logical fallacy bit, lol, I always get a kick out of that because the context is almost never logic or reason but more so narcissism. I see people trying to use this all the time however it is a bit of an art and to be honest I think you could have done better... something to consider in the future.


You seem to be a logical person so I would like to hear your thoughts on statistics which apply here. We all know about statistics don't we and it seems logical however I always had a problem with it. Now let's say the odds of winning the lottery are ten million to one however we know almost every week someone wins the lottery. So the odds for them on winning are obviously 100% and everyone else zero. Which is a way of saying the odds of statistics do apply up until the point you are actually effected by them directly.


By the same token we could say the odds of a severe reaction to immunizations is extremely low however when your child is in emergency because of a severe reaction then the statistics really don't mean jack shit do they?. As well in those rare cases resulting in death which are about the same as winning the lottery one has to wonder was it really worth it?. You see people love to talk about statistics only because they truly believe they will never be personally effected by them however when they are they are only left with unanswered questions and guilt.


You see statistics are completely impersonal however we are not, we are real people with real feelings who care deeply about the ones we love which is why I research everything and debate these issues with people like you. So tell me something I don't know... convince me otherwise.



AC
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 17, 2014, 06:14:32 AM
@Sark
You seem to get all hot and bothered trying to prove yourself to the point of being obsessed by it.

In this particular case he's trying to deflect attention away from the fact that he fraudulently altered the content of my text...sound like a familiar CDC M.O. ?


Quote
No offence but instead of spam posting why not try to interact on a more personal level like a real person.

Because he isn't, thats why.

Regards...



Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 17, 2014, 06:14:57 AM
I read the article and found it interesting and informative
Out of curiosity can you give me say two or three things that the article said which were new information to you and were exceptionally well supported?  I mean, that's part of what I'd call "interesting and informative".  Wouldn't you?
Quote
as I said then you spam posted it with equally unsubstantiated claims
If there's a particular part of my post that you believe is unsubstantiated then please.  Simply point it out.  Most of the substantiation for what I said is actually in the article or linked from it.  So if you read it, you didn't read it very well and you certainly didn't follow up on it. As I say though I will happily provide what you think is missing.
Quote
You seem to get all hot and bothered trying to prove yourself to the point of being obsessed by it
LOL. Then you really are not understanding my posts.  I mean if you're saying that out of everything I posted in response to that you couldn't find one thing that presented a reasonable alternative viewpoint to what the article presented.  That's cool.  I'd love to hear you say so plainly though.
Quote
No offence but instead of spam posting
No offence but it's simply not spam not under any useful definition.  It's a clear response to what was stated in the article:  The article says X.  The reality is probably more like Y.
Quote
I understand what your saying however I'm not convinced
Dude.  Don't take this the wrong way but you just blather. Seriously I've probably asked you for a half-dozen cites for things you expressed or implied as externally verifiable and you have provided almost nothing (other than urls from drugstores and wall mart which were actually beside the point).  So ask yourself if that's really worth any energy to convince.

Quote
I also liked the logical fallacy bit, lol, I always get a kick out of that because the context is almost never logic or reason but more so narcissism
If you have an actual argument.  Feel free to present it.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 17, 2014, 06:22:30 AM
Mass Sterilization effort in Kenya (http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/mass-sterilization-kenyan-doctors-find-anti-fertility-agent-in-un-tetanus-vaccine/).
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on December 17, 2014, 06:27:08 AM
ok I was editing my post when everyone decided to respond, we might need a re-do, lol.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 17, 2014, 06:30:08 AM
Mass Sterilization effort in Kenya (http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/mass-sterilization-kenyan-doctors-find-anti-fertility-agent-in-un-tetanus-vaccine/).
OK so you've got the alarming claim.  Now, if you dig a little deeper you will find out the claims are nonsense because the vaccine does not contain HCG.  When the vaccine samples were tested at a high quality lab, they registered lower HCG than the tap water.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 17, 2014, 06:30:45 AM
Its going on everywhere...plastics leeching estrogen into the landfills and then into the water aquifers has lowered male sperm count significantly=infertility=sterilization=checkmate.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on December 17, 2014, 06:42:12 AM
@Sark


Think of it this way, how about you apply the rules you apply to me to yourself and I think that should just about answer all your questions concerning your last post. You ask for proof and references and citations none of which you have actually provided. Now why would you think I should do such a thing when neither of us have?. You may want to rethink this because in my opinion you are being unreasonable in thinking I need to prove anything hence the reason I use the phase-- in my opinion.


AC
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on December 17, 2014, 06:46:31 AM
@mark E
Quote
OK so you've got the alarming claim.  Now, if you dig a little deeper you will find out the claims are nonsense because the vaccine does not contain HCG.  When the vaccine samples were tested at a high quality lab, they registered lower HCG than the tap water.


Google Ultra-low level testing relating to toxins and long term exposure and it should explain everything. The scientific studies suggest there are levels well below that considered safe which do more harm over time that the levels actually considered safe.


AC
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 17, 2014, 06:47:35 AM
Mass Sterilization effort in Kenya (http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/mass-sterilization-kenyan-doctors-find-anti-fertility-agent-in-un-tetanus-vaccine/).
Well it's kind of half-ish-right.  Fertility vaccines have been researched (mostly for animals) for decades.  hCG is used in one I know of.  The thing missing from this article that would make it useful is the amount of hCG detected in their lab reports.  Why would you do that?  Thankfully it was in the WHO report 1.12 mIU/ml in what I assume was the "churches" samples.  Assuming the  higher level results are correct there is simply no possibility that any sane person would think this is an attempt to sterilize someone.   As these are well within the observed values in non-pregnant women.

Again...a few seconds would have made you look smarter. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 17, 2014, 07:02:47 AM
You ask for proof and references and citations none of which you have actually provided.
Actually I've provided a few and I've made a completely open offer to respond to any specific request you ask for.
Quote
Now why would you think I should do such a thing when neither of us have?
The difference is the willingness to do so.  If you say: "Right here you say X and I'd like to see a reference for that".  I will be more than happy to comply.  See I don't fault you for having a stupid opinion, or not sourcing it but you should be willing and able to do so when asked, even if you don't like the way you've been asked.  There are dozens of comments I could make about your conduct but I simply don't think it's relevant to the discussion.
Quote
You may want to rethink this because in my opinion you are being unreasonable in thinking I need to prove anything
Well that's good because I haven't asked you to prove anything.  I've asked you to provide external support for assertions you've made - which appear to be based on external data.
Quote
hence the reason I use the phase-- in my opinion.
I'm not calling into question that these...ideas...are your opinions.  I'm just giving you the opportunity to differentiate them from poor, uninformed and unsubstantiated....opinions. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on December 17, 2014, 07:04:42 AM
@Cap
Quote
Its going on everywhere...plastics leeching estrogen into the landfills and then into the water aquifers has lowered male sperm count significantly=infertility=sterilization=checkmate.Regards...


I would agree we now know ultra low level contamination may play a major role however we should work the problem backwards. It is not a contamination problem but a habitual issue concerning people doing stupid things. Trying to bury our problems never has worked because at some point someone is going to have to deal with them. We simply pretend the problem does not exist not unlike those billion tons of plastic particles floating around in our oceans. Denial is not a solution but i think you know this all too well.


AC
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 17, 2014, 07:14:38 AM
And all the while a very high yield organic source for bio degradable plastic is readily available and right under our noses...hemp based plastic.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 17, 2014, 08:30:16 AM
@Sark
I read the article and found it interesting and informative as I said then you spam posted it with equally unsubstantiated claims and I ignored them... exactly which part of this do you not understand?. You seem to get all hot and bothered trying to prove yourself to the point of being obsessed by it.. No offence but instead of spam posting why not try to interact on a more personal level like a real person. I understand what your saying however I'm not convinced, no big deal, stay calm.

I also liked the logical fallacy bit, lol, I always get a kick out of that because the context is almost never logic or reason but more so narcissism. I see people trying to use this all the time however it is a bit of an art and to be honest I think you could have done better... something to consider in the future.


You seem to be a logical person so I would like to hear your thoughts on statistics which apply here. We all know about statistics don't we and it seems logical however I always had a problem with it. Now let's say the odds of winning the lottery are ten million to one however we know almost every week someone wins the lottery. So the odds for them on winning are obviously 100% and everyone else zero. Which is a way of saying the odds of statistics do apply up until the point you are actually effected by them directly.


By the same token we could say the odds of a severe reaction to immunizations is extremely low however when your child is in emergency because of a severe reaction then the statistics really don't mean jack shit do they?. As well in those rare cases resulting in death which are about the same as winning the lottery one has to wonder was it really worth it?. You see people love to talk about statistics only because they truly believe they will never be personally effected by them however when they are they are only left with unanswered questions and guilt.


You see statistics are completely impersonal however we are not, we are real people with real feelings who care deeply about the ones we love which is why I research everything and debate these issues with people like you. So tell me something I don't know... convince me otherwise.



AC
Lightning does strike.  Sometimes it strikes an unlucky person.  The decision to act in one way or another is rational if based on knowable facts the action reduces the chances of an unfavorable outcome / increases the chances of a favorable outcome.  For instance in your decision not to vaccinate your kids what did you do to determine that the odds of them being stricken with: smallpox, polio, mumps etc versus being stricken by something equal or worse as a result of the vaccinations that you avoided?  Have you also refused them tetanus vaccinations?  If so again:  What data did you rely on to make that choice?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on December 17, 2014, 08:42:11 AM
Many people here have made some very good arguments concerning their opinions however I think it is different when it becomes personal. I know very few relatives who have died from old age and most all have died of cancer. The statistics suggest cancer, diabetes, ms etc.. will reach epidemic proportions in the near future. Why today just this afternoon I was informed that a relative passed away due to brain cancer and she will me sorely missed. To you she was just another statistic, yet another number another topic for debate but to me she was a person, a loved one.


So all this debate is wonderful until that statistic, that opinion or than logic you need to get through the day hits home where you live. At which point it's relevancy seems diminished, it's importance somehow forgotten. We can presume to understand, we may justify it by any means but that cannot change what it is, the reality of this world in which we live.


Why today I came on shift to find a weeks worth of problems I solved in a matter of hours, possibly 20 trained and qualified people came and they left scratching theirs heads and I waltzed in and did what I do. It is a peculiar thing that it is presumed we are equal and yet we are people, why I know a few people of supposedly equal expertise I would not let change the tire on my truck. So we are left with the notion that expertise must be relevant, it must be applicable and up to date. I'm just another redneck farmboy but what I do I expect to do well.


So yes believe whatever you need to get you through the day but know we are not equal, we were born equal but from that day forward what we do and think determines who we are. So yes, it was kind of a stipulation the good book(s) forgot to mention because we are not equal.


So the question remains, with whom are you willing to place your trust?. With some dip-shit who sounds intelligent, a person who believes in a bearded man in a white dress who created the universe in six days or a scientist who was proven then dis-proven by his peers but only after the fact. We live, we learn then we die... those are the facts but it is what we do in between the living and dying that matters most. So this proof and belief everyone speaks about is constrained by time because everything we know must change with time... it is a constant we we all know and believe on some level.


That's my rant
AC

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 17, 2014, 08:54:47 AM
@mark E

Google Ultra-low level testing relating to toxins and long term exposure and it should explain everything. The scientific studies suggest there are levels well below that considered safe which do more harm over time that the levels actually considered safe.


AC
The erroneous claim was that HCG was in the vaccines, and put there in order to sterilize those who received the vaccine.  The facts show that when tested by a properly equipped and capable laboratory, HCG was not found in the vaccines.  Ergo both claims are false.

Now, you've jumped horses and want to argue that the HCG is really there in minute quantities? That's not what competent labs found.  They did not find any.  Or are you arguing that there was something else in the vaccine? If so, what, and what is the evidence for its alleged harmful effects?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 17, 2014, 09:01:17 AM
Many people here have made some very good arguments concerning their opinions however I think it is different when it becomes personal. I know very few relatives who have died from old age and most all have died of cancer. The statistics suggest cancer, diabetes, ms etc.. will reach epidemic proportions in the near future. Why today just this afternoon I was informed that a relative passed away due to brain cancer and she will me sorely missed. To you she was just another statistic, yet another number another topic for debate but to me she was a person, a loved one.


So all this debate is wonderful until that statistic, that opinion or than logic you need to get through the day hits home where you live. At which point it's relevancy seems diminished, it's importance somehow forgotten. We can presume to understand, we may justify it by any means but that cannot change what it is, the reality of this world in which we live.


Why today I came on shift to find a weeks worth of problems I solved in a matter of hours, possibly 20 trained and qualified people came and they left scratching theirs heads and I waltzed in and did what I do. It is a peculiar thing that it is presumed we are equal and yet we are people, why I know a few people of supposedly equal expertise I would not let change the tire on my truck. So we are left with the notion that expertise must be relevant, it must be applicable and up to date. I'm just another redneck farmboy but what I do I expect to do well.


So yes believe whatever you need to get you through the day but know we are not equal, we were born equal but from that day forward what we do and think determines who we are. So yes, it was kind of a stipulation the good book(s) forgot to mention because we are not equal.


So the question remains, with whom are you willing to place your trust?. With some dip-shit who sounds intelligent, a person who believes in a bearded man in a white dress who created the universe in six days or a scientist who was proven then dis-proven by his peers but only after the fact. We live, we learn then we die... those are the facts but it is what we do in between the living and dying that matters most. So this proof and belief everyone speaks about is constrained by time because everything we know must change with time... it is a constant we we all know and believe on some level.


That's my rant
AC
Well yes it is a rant, that doesn't bother me.  Now, would you be good enough to answer my questions?  I am trying to determine whether the actions that you said you took: specifically keeping your kids from being vaccinated were based on a reasoned interpretation of facts or superstition.  If one of them has or does suffer a major cut: something that requires stitches, did you or would you refuse them a tetanus vaccination?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 17, 2014, 02:39:56 PM
however I think it is different when it becomes personal. I know very few relatives who have died from old age and most all have died of cancer. The statistics suggest cancer, diabetes, ms etc.. will reach epidemic proportions in the near future.

 Why today just this afternoon I was informed that a relative passed away due to brain cancer and she will me sorely missed. To you she was just another statistic, yet another number another topic for debate but to me she was a person, a loved one.
You are all over the place here.  I'm going to try to paraphrase and find something inside that mess of barely cogent sentences.

I get that we feel bad when someone we care about dies (often people one doesn't care about affect us).  However if we are talking about anything we are talking about what is causing some alleged deaths.  You say "vaccines have killed or seriously harmed people - up to 1 in 20 in some cases".  I say you have to be deliberately trying to think poorly to believe that.
Quote
Why today I came on shift to find a weeks worth of problems I solved in a matter of hours, possibly 20 trained and qualified people came and they left scratching theirs heads and I waltzed in and did what I do. It is a peculiar thing that it is presumed we are equal and yet we are people, why I know a few people of supposedly equal expertise I would not let change the tire on my truck. So we are left with the notion that expertise must be relevant, it must be applicable and up to date. I'm just another redneck farmboy but what I do I expect to do well.
Nobody is saying that all people are equal in every respect.  Given that you accept this, why can't you accept that you are absolutely completely and utterly terrible at looking at vaccine safety objectively?  Why can't you admit that you never really did the kind of diligence that you would require of yourself in your job to reach the conclusions you did?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 17, 2014, 02:56:02 PM
Google Ultra-low level testing relating to toxins and long term exposure and it should explain everything. The scientific studies suggest there are levels well below that considered safe which do more harm over time that the levels actually considered safe.
I get that SeaMonkey's particular brain damage doesn't let him/her actually state what point s/he is trying to make with those link-only posts.  However it at least appears the point was:

i) Certain vaccines contain hCG
ii) hCG is a sterilizing agent (this is oversimplifying the biochemistry a bit)
iii) Therefore vaccines are being used to sterilize parts of Kenya.

However as the WHO reported these are the levels which are common in women humans.  Meaning if this level was sufficient to sterilize anyone then the expectation would be that most people are sterile.  Which seems at least prima facie untrue.  It's also worth mentioning that hCG isn't a sterility agent per se.  It's actually a chemical produced in the human body.  During pregnancy it's produced in large enough quantities that most pregnancy tests are actually hCG hormone tests.

So you can't really use your "trace amounts" gambit on something we bio-synthesize.  Of course if you had spent even a few seconds researching your view before launching into your "trace amounts" defense.  You would have known this.

This is what I mean about spending time to REFUTE things you already agree with.  If MarkE or myself hadn't stepped in this would have become yet another post on your facebook wall.  You would make the same arguments with people who responded like we did and some of them you would dupe.  IMHO you are responsible for the people you deceive when you are so negligent that you won't even make a 15s check.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on December 17, 2014, 04:52:54 PM
@Mark E
Quote
Well yes it is a rant, that doesn't bother me.  Now, would you be good enough
to answer my questions?  I am trying to determine whether the actions that you
said you took: specifically keeping your kids from being vaccinated were based
on a reasoned interpretation of facts or superstition.  If one of them has or
does suffer a major cut: something that requires stitches, did you or would you
refuse them a tetanus vaccination?
Oh dear here we go, lol,  the "same logic" argument never actually did work for me. Let me guess, if I say yes I'm a hypocrite and if I say no I'm irresponsible however I'm going to choose option C which is that every vaccine has it's own risk assessment... they are not all the same. It's like flying on a jet and trying to justify the risks by thinking it is know technology and perfectly safe and it is however the actual risk is based on the competency of that technician who replaced those rivets in the wing section last week, the fight he had with his wife the night prior and how much he drank after that which effected his performance. In which case the "same logic" same airplane, same physics, same statistics model simply does not apply because it did not include that drunk technician who just inadvertently killed everyone. You see the risks are conditional and change the moment you enter the cause and effect loop unless you opt out or change the conditions.
All of my family has had a tetanus shot however I would think you would agree the risk of stepping on a rusty nail is just a little bit different than contracting polio which WHO has stated no longer exists on this planet. The risks concerning every vaccine, every drug should be weighed carefully because obviously they are not all the same.
AC
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on December 17, 2014, 05:46:18 PM
@Sark
Quote
This is what I mean about spending time to REFUTE things you already agree
with.  If MarkE or myself hadn't stepped in this would have become yet another
post on your facebook wall.  You would make the same arguments with people who
responded like we did and some of them you would dupe.  IMHO you are responsible
for the people you deceive when you are so negligent that you won't even make a
15s check.
Oh I would agree, you guys are like the white supremicists of logic who live in a world of black and white with no shades of gray. I mean you should get some of those white dresses with the pointy hats and big red letters spelling "logicle" on the front.
However life is chaotic and has a way of coming full circle and biting us in the ass when we least expect it, when it does then we will talk. Maybe you could track down those who's children have been crippled or died due to complications, I'm sure they would love to hear your opinions and you could straighten them out and tell them how it is.

AC
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 17, 2014, 06:09:12 PM
simply does not apply because it did not include that drunk technician who just inadvertently killed everyone. You see the risks are conditional and change the moment you enter the cause and effect loop unless you opt out or change the conditions.
You are effectively saying it is impossible to generalize risk. By that logic every bite you eat, every step you take (every move you make).  Would require separate risk assessments.  Clearly you don't believe this. 
Quote
contracting polio which WHO has stated no longer exists on this planet.
Again this is incorrect.  From the WHO Q&A on polio. 
Quote from: WHO
Polio does still exist, although polio cases have decreased by over 99% since 1988, from an estimated more than 350 000 cases to 416 reported cases in 2013. This reduction is the result of the global effort to eradicate the disease. Today, only 3 countries in the world have never stopped transmission of polio (Nigeria, Pakistan and Afghanistan).
Now the question is, you've mentioned this several times in this thread.  I'm willing to bet you've mentioned it to other people.  Are you going to go back and give them the correct information that you were so very incompetent at collecting?  Didn't think so.  It would be hard even if you wanted to.  Just another reason why you should put the effort into refuting your own ideas before you speak.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 17, 2014, 06:42:57 PM
who live in a world of black and white with no shades of gray.
Quite the opposite. I think there are shades of grey.  You, interestingly are unwilling to believe that shades exist in a few of your beliefs.

So the idea that hCG is being used to sterilize girls in Kenya was refuted because it is too low.  You came back with the statement that ultra-low doses can hurt you but you didn't bother to even have a microscopic amount of skepticism concerning SM's post.

Where were your shades of grey?  You had no doubt whatsoever when it came to talking about "ultra low doses".

You also called parents irresponsible for allowing their children to be vaccinated with guardasil stemming from an article which appears to be a mistreatment of the words of the person the article is about.  Again this was because you didn't bother to have the slightest amount of doubt about the article.

Where were the shades of grey there?

Quote
Maybe you could track down those who's children have been crippled or died due to complications
Complications with what?  Vaccines?  Wait...how do you know they were crippled or died due to vaccine complications?  That's a pretty black or white thing to say.

See the point here is sure I think vaccines are very, very safe.  Not perfectly safe, but neither is being unvaccinated and yes I think you have be deliberately obtuse to believe a number of the things you SM and Cap-Z-ro have said.  I think the best way to understand the shades of grey that exist in this world is to be self-critical.  Something, if you are honest all three of you suck donkey balls at.

SM posts an article and you say "yesssir".  I went and found the actual WHO report.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 17, 2014, 07:08:38 PM
"Considered safe"...likely by vested interests.

And relying on the WHO as a reliable source is par for the course.

Weren't they the ones pushing the H1N1 vaccine to stem the epidemic which fizzled...despite the fact that hardleyanybody fell for the scam.

You know, the disease where they patented the vaccine 3 0r 4 years before the disease appeared.

Hey...is anybody going to get the new vaccine that makes us immune to Global Warming..er..I mean Climate Change ?

Ever Mike Adams the Health Ranger Dr Oz AND Dr Phil have endorsed this one !

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 17, 2014, 07:18:20 PM
"Considered safe"...likely by vested interests.
No as testified by human females everywhere.  It is within the nominal values for women.  Again, hCG is BIOSYNTHESIZED so it's entirely reasonable to find some in a woman.  Also for the second time, pregnancy tests are usually hCG tests.  So clearly hCG is safe in some dosage for women.
Quote
And relying on the WHO as a reliable source is par for the course.
Nope.  The WHO report publishes both the lab values the Church supplied and the ones they used both are over 5 MILLION times lower that the amount given in a sterilization vaccine.

Again...all you had to do was think that perhaps you might be wrong and you wouldn't have looked stupid here.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 17, 2014, 07:29:16 PM
Solid Raindrops 50 to 60 feet Long Fall From Sky After Military Jets Fly By

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lkAZTNwq40 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lkAZTNwq40)


Must be more 'Global Warming'..er, I mean 'Climate Change' signs huh ?

Regards...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on December 17, 2014, 08:24:43 PM
@Sark
Quote
You are effectively saying it is impossible to generalize risk. By that logic
every bite you eat, every step you take (every move you make).  Would require
separate risk assessments.  Clearly you don't believe this. 
Now your getting it and yes obviously I do believe it because I said it. It is peculiar that most believe in a chaotic random universe and yet they still believe logic and statistics always apply. Clearly one cannot believe in both because they are in direct contradiction to one another and if something can go wrong it will as defined by Murphy's Law. Have you ever done everything right and still had it blow up in your face?, thats the universe teaching you a lesson in humility.
I imagine your one of those who believe it (random shit) will never happen to you, I mean the plane would be in a death spiral yards from the ground and you would be the one saying--- you know statistically speaking this cannot happen, in fact I can cite hundreds of references as why why this should not happen, in fact I don't believe it can happen, I think ...Splat !.
Insert unsubstantiated claim:
Quote
Polio does still exist, although polio cases have decreased by over 99% since
1988, from an estimated more than 350 000 cases to 416 reported cases in 2013.
This reduction is the result of the global effort to eradicate the disease.
Today, only 3 countries in the world have never stopped transmission of polio
(Nigeria, Pakistan and Afghanistan).
Quote
Now the question is, you've mentioned this several times in this thread.  I'm
willing to bet you've mentioned it to other people.  Are you going to go back
and give them the correct information that you were so very incompetent at
collecting?  Didn't think so.  It would be hard even if you wanted to.  Just
another reason why you should put the effort into refuting your own ideas before
you speak.
Your funny,  you have fabricated an imaginary scenario and probably even convinced yourself it may be true, in fact you may even believe it may have already happened...very strange. As I said I'm not fully convinced however if you could cite credible links of multiple independent third party studies which are actually relevant to this discussion then I would be happy to consider them. No unsubstantiated quotes please, I will need credible verifiable links if you could.
AC
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 17, 2014, 08:52:20 PM
Now your getting it and yes obviously I do believe it
It's kind of amusing that you want to go down this path.  I'm not sure if this is just your trollishness showing or if you've been cornered.
Anyway if there's absolutely no possibility of generalizing any risk. Then you can't consider any action safer than any other action because that is making a general statement about risk.  Clearly you don't believe this because...

i) You have already said that vaccines were riskier than the diseases they prevent.  That's generalizing risk.

ii) You also said you believe that people need to evaluate each type of vaccine individually.  I notice that you didn't say "every dose of the same vaccine".  Clearly you believe you can generalize risk across doses.  You also didn't include doctors, horoscopes and weather conditions because you really don't want to get that tetanus shot when Venus is in the house of Mars.

Everybody who takes an action likely believes you can bound (generalize) risk. All you appear to be doing is making up a set of special exceptions so you can preserve your silly beliefs.
Quote
Insert unsubstantiated claim:
What unsubstantiated claim?  Are you saying you don't believe that is from the WHO Q&A on Polio?
Quote
you have fabricated an imaginary scenario
What scenario?  That you think the WHO says polio doesn't exist?  You said that right here:
is just a little bit different than contracting polio which WHO has stated no longer exists on this planet.
Quote
however if you could cite credible links of multiple independent third party studies which are actually relevant to this discussion then I would be happy to consider them. No unsubstantiated quotes please, I will need credible verifiable links if you could.
As I said, I'm happy to provide references and support for any specific thing you can name as unsubstantiated.  However you notice that you haven't really mentioned a specific thing.  :) Either the WHO says currently that polio doesn't exist or it does.  It's website says it does.  Would you like a link to the specific page?  http://lmgtfy.com/?q=who+polio+q%26a
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 18, 2014, 09:23:02 AM
@Mark EOh dear here we go, lol,  the "same logic" argument never actually did work for me. Let me guess, if I say yes I'm a hypocrite and if I say no I'm irresponsible however I'm going to choose option C which is that every vaccine has it's own risk assessment... they are not all the same. It's like flying on a jet and trying to justify the risks by thinking it is know technology and perfectly safe and it is however the actual risk is based on the competency of that technician who replaced those rivets in the wing section last week, the fight he had with his wife the night prior and how much he drank after that which effected his performance. In which case the "same logic" same airplane, same physics, same statistics model simply does not apply because it did not include that drunk technician who just inadvertently killed everyone. You see the risks are conditional and change the moment you enter the cause and effect loop unless you opt out or change the conditions.
All of my family has had a tetanus shot however I would think you would agree the risk of stepping on a rusty nail is just a little bit different than contracting polio which WHO has stated no longer exists on this planet. The risks concerning every vaccine, every drug should be weighed carefully because obviously they are not all the same.
AC
AC there is no trick to my questions.  You say that out of concern for the welfare for your children you have not had them vaccinated.  If that decision was a well informed one or not depends entirely on what diligence you exercised in the course of reaching it.  I am asking you to identify the basis of your diligence. 

Certainly if you feel justified in your stated actions and would like to influence other caring families to enjoy the same benefits you claim you have bestowed upon your children, showing that you based those decisions on sound data would be a public service.  If as you say each vaccine has its own risk assessment, implying that you would allow your children to receive certain vaccines and not others, then identifying which vaccines you have or would allow and which you would not would also be important. 

Polio is still very much on this planet and the WHO is in a state of alarm about it.  The WHO had hoped to see worldwide eradication of polio infections by 2018.  Problems in certain countries now have the WHO very alarmed that polio will spread.  See:  http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/statements/2014/polio-20140505/en/. The ways to prevent polio from spreading is two fold:  Better sanitation and as close to 100% vaccination of the population as possible. 






Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MileHigh on December 18, 2014, 03:11:50 PM
The bottom line in this debate is that vaccinations are a net plus for society and they serve the common good.  Anybody with ordinary common sense should realize this.  Just like if you have ordinary common sense you should know that your body is resilient enough to handle trace amounts of all sorts of toxic substances, and any toxic substance below a certain dosage threshold is essentially harmless.  The nonsensical panic and doom-saying about the mercury compounds to keep vaccinations bacteria-free come to mind.

Another thing for people with common sense:  I glanced at many of the links put up by the anti-vaccination crowd and the web pages are almost always "alternative tabloid trash" web sites.  The kinds of web sites that sell magnetic belts and "structured water" and other junk like that.

There is also something "nasty" (for lack of a better term) that the anti-vaccination crowd may have not addressed:  You have a responsibility to your fellow man to try to not catch dangerous communicable diseases and put others around you, or the whole population,  at risk.  They don't want to deal with the fact that their selfish actions could be harmful to others.

Here is a hypothetical scenario:  The anti-vaccination crowd wins out and 20 years from now, 3/4 of children are not vaccinated.  Then a really nasty measles or mumps virus spreads like wildfire among adolescents because nobody has immunity.   Thousands and thousands of adolescents die, schools are shut down, the medical system is overstressed, etc, etc.

If that happened where would the anti-vaccination crowd be?   I can bet you that they will be demonstrating against the government and demanding compensation.  They will claim that "the government must have known" they were stupid and misguided, and therefore it's the government's fault for not "correcting" the problem in the first place.  "Yes I was a stupid idiot and my children got really sick.  I demand that the government compensate me for my stupidity because they should have known better!"

Meanwhile, real people are unethical and also make grave mistakes in the pharmaceutical inductry.   Look, a shocker, your tax dollars at work to fix a very serious problem where the responsible people should go to prison:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/17/us/meningitis-outbreak-arrests/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 (http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/17/us/meningitis-outbreak-arrests/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)

Use your own common sense to weed out and ignore the people that clearly have no common sense.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 18, 2014, 03:46:06 PM
If anybody wants to be "protected" that is their decision to make...if I want to die of a vaccine driven epidemic that is my decision to make as a sovereign being.

And never the twain shall meet...so to speak.

If you are vaccinated then what us sane people do shouldn't be of concern...shood it ?

In the end, natural selection will win out.

I'm comfortable with my position.

Regards...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 18, 2014, 03:58:20 PM
The bottom line in this debate is that vaccinations are a net plus for society and they serve the common good.  Anybody with ordinary common sense should realize this.  Just like if you have ordinary common sense you should know that your body is resilient enough to handle trace amounts of all sorts of toxic substances, and any toxic substance below a certain dosage threshold is essentially harmless.  The nonsensical panic and doom-saying about the mercury compounds to keep vaccinations bacteria-free come to mind.

Another thing for people with common sense:  I glanced at many of the links put up by the anti-vaccination crowd and the web pages are almost always "alternative tabloid trash" web sites.  The kinds of web sites that sell magnetic belts and "structured water" and other junk like that.

There is also something "nasty" (for lack of a better term) that the anti-vaccination crowd may have not addressed:  You have a responsibility to your fellow man to try to not catch dangerous communicable diseases and put others around you, or the whole population,  at risk.  They don't want to deal with the fact that their selfish actions could be harmful to others.

Here is a hypothetical scenario:  The anti-vaccination crowd wins out and 20 years from now, 3/4 of children are not vaccinated.  Then a really nasty measles or mumps virus spreads like wildfire among adolescents because nobody has immunity.   Thousands and thousands of adolescents die, schools are shut down, the medical system is overstressed, etc, etc.

If that happened where would the anti-vaccination crowd be?   I can bet you that they will be demonstrating against the government and demanding compensation.  They will claim that "the government must have known" they were stupid and misguided, and therefore it's the government's fault for not "correcting" the problem in the first place.  "Yes I was a stupid idiot and my children got really sick.  I demand that the government compensate me for my stupidity because they should have known better!"

Meanwhile, real people are unethical and also make grave mistakes in the pharmaceutical inductry.   Look, a shocker, your tax dollars at work to fix a very serious problem where the responsible people should go to prison:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/17/us/meningitis-outbreak-arrests/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 (http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/17/us/meningitis-outbreak-arrests/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)

Use your own common sense to weed out and ignore the people that clearly have no common sense.

MileHigh
What happened at NECC is an example of the kinds of results "Don't regulate" brings about.  NECC created straw patients so that they could compound "for them", when what they were really doing was selling wholesale.  They used the exemptions for small compounding pharmacies to avoid the expense and hassle of running a proper laboratory.  Now that they've been busted, maybe they'll go into compounding herbal remedies, like Mother's Nourishing Morning Glory Milk.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 18, 2014, 04:13:32 PM
If you are vaccinated then what us sane people do shouldn't be of concern...shood it ?
Depends.  Vaccines are not 100% effective and while they are very, very, very safe.  There is a tiny risk.  If a disease is eradicated (like polio will hopefully be).  It makes sense to stop vaccination.  As long as people like you are in the tiny minority and well distributed throughout society.  I don't have a problem with you being unvaccinated.   Immunocompromised people might want to push you in front of a bus though.
Quote
In the end, natural selection will win out.
Actually natural selection only affects heritable traits.  While there might be some knowledge transfer from parent to child about getting vaccinated there's still plenty of room for disinformation from people like you to influence folk.  Even if we assume an advantage to being vaccinated as I mention above.  In a minority position the unvaccinated are, protected by those who are.  Given both those things it's not that likely that selection will occur and even if it does it will take an enormously long time and of course many entirely needless deaths to accomplish this.
Quote
I'm comfortable with my position.
Because you are an idiot. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 18, 2014, 04:59:20 PM
What happened at NECC is an example of the kinds of results "Don't regulate" brings about.  NECC created straw patients so that they could compound "for them", when what they were really doing was selling wholesale.  They used the exemptions for small compounding pharmacies to avoid the expense and hassle of running a proper laboratory.  Now that they've been busted, maybe they'll go into compounding herbal remedies, like Mother's Nourishing Morning Glory Milk.
That's terribly sad.  Compounding pharms do have risks and probably need better regulation.  That said they are pretty useful.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 18, 2014, 05:28:54 PM
Because you are an idiot. :)

T'is better to be called an idiot by a fraudster and a troll than a vaccination statistic.

Regards...

*waits for fraudster to alter more text*

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 18, 2014, 06:48:45 PM
*waits for fraudster to alter more text*
What text have I altered that you're so very concerned about?  Please provide exact quotes. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: starcruiser on December 18, 2014, 07:02:12 PM
   Sarkeizen a Feminazi, at least what the name implies. Go back to your gamergate and whatever, you are not wanted here.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 18, 2014, 07:07:36 PM

How trollish and in keeping with the CDC's standard of deceit that he wood demand proof...after he already edited out the text he altered.

I didn't bother to keep a screenshot of what the CDC troll altered...his admission is still there though...unless he edited that out also.

Maybe he shood consult the forum's official ass kisser/bag licker/bumboy has a kept copy, along with my egregious grammatical faux pas's.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 18, 2014, 07:11:28 PM
   Sarkeizen a Feminazi, at least what the name implies. Go back to your gamergate and whatever, you are not wanted here.

Now, if I were a betting man..I wood bet that the odds are slim that I can make this post before the troll responds again.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 18, 2014, 07:12:50 PM
I did it !!!

I beat the troll spread.

*rushes out to buy lotto ticket*

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 18, 2014, 07:26:31 PM
after he already edited out the text he altered.
Ok...so your claim is that I altered some of your text and then changed it back.  Are you sure you didn't just imagine this?
Quote
I didn't bother to keep a screenshot of what the CDC troll altered...his admission is still there though...unless he edited that out also.
Please point me to the "admission" post?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 18, 2014, 07:27:11 PM
   Sarkeizen a Feminazi, at least what the name implies.
Why would that word imply that to you?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 18, 2014, 07:34:48 PM
Ok...so your claim is that I altered some of your text and then changed it back.  Are you sure you didn't just imagine this?Please point me to the "admission" post?

I won't bother to check, but apparently the troll deleted his admission too.

But, boy, didn't it take an awful long time to start denying what he did ?

I mean, I accused him immediately after he did it.

Now, who in their right mind, or with an ounce of self respect would let someone call them a fraud and a criminal for 3 weeks before getting around to defending themselves ?

The answer...nobody, thats who.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 18, 2014, 07:53:18 PM
I won't bother to check, but apparently the troll deleted his admission too.
Yawn.  Something can not both be unobserved and apparent.
Quote
But, boy, didn't it take an awful long time to start denying what he did ?
I haven't denied anything (but I doubt very much that I've changed anything of yours and then changed it back).  I've simply asked you to point out what you're whining about.  You won't for some reason.  Perhaps you just like whining?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 18, 2014, 08:05:40 PM
I guess the lying troll thinks nobody else noticed when i pointed it out.

Amazingly stupid.

But when you're desperate...

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MileHigh on December 18, 2014, 08:10:08 PM
I read this thread in bursts from time to time, but I don't read all of it.

I can see that Sarkeizen is making mincemeat of you, Captain Zero.  You are clearly the one that is desperate and you are clearly the one that would not make the high school debating team.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 18, 2014, 08:21:47 PM
I read this thread in bursts from time to time, but I don't read all of it.

I can see that Sarkeizen is making mincemeat of you, Captain Zero.  You are clearly the one that is desperate and you are clearly the one that would not make the high school debating team.

So...the forums empty word champion...and Luc's personal troll, makes an appearance here...after his harassment of Luc has irritated yet ANOTHER long standing member.

I know one thing, the only people I've upset here, are trolls, shills nitpickers naysayers and one ass kisser of the aforementioned.

When the troll you are "debating" resorts to fraudulently altering text in frustration, the troll is clearly the loser...literally and figuratively.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 18, 2014, 08:24:15 PM
I guess the lying troll thinks nobody else noticed when i pointed it out.
I'm simply asking you to help resolve something that appears to be an issue for you.  Why do you have a problem with that?
If you don't, then please point out where you *think* something was changed/changed back and where the changing was admitted to.

I'm sure we can talk about it. :)  That is, if resolving things is actually something you care about. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MileHigh on December 18, 2014, 08:24:54 PM
Your brain is hurting Captain Zero.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 18, 2014, 08:29:18 PM
The patronizing arrogance of these 2 trolls will be schlightly tempered (for about 5 minutes) when someone who noticed his text fixing shows up.

Regards...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 18, 2014, 08:30:36 PM
The patronizing arrogance of these 2 trolls will be schlightly tempered (for about 5 minutes) when someone who noticed his text fixing shows up.
So that's a "no" then?  You don't want to resolve this issue.  You just want to complain about it? :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 18, 2014, 08:35:05 PM
*farts to re-energise sputtering troll*

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 19, 2014, 01:03:32 AM
Time for another anti-troll reset.

Rather than take the words of CDC trolls citing vested interest stats and altered text, I choose to listen to all the whistleblowers.

Notwithstanding that one or more may have recanted.

Many of you may also recall all the US spy's paraded before cameras in the middle east, and renouncing US policies...under the threat of a gun from stage left, of course.

I can state from experience that the life of a whistleblower is never the same again...and not in a good way.

So, where's the reward for them if they are lying, is the question to be asked ?

The answer, there is none...it just doesn't add up.

And if it doesn't make sense its not true...thats why I take them seriously.

There's nothing like good old common sense as your guide.



People will say ANYTHING under duress.

Regards...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 19, 2014, 01:42:58 AM




People will say ANYTHING under duress.

Regards...

People will also say anything just to gain attention.  You are a perfect example of this.

Case in point: 

No one, except a Moderator, or Stefan (Our gracious host) can change another members postings.  Since I do not believe there are any moderators assigned to this topic area, that must mean one of two things.

1.  For some reason, you think Stefan is altering your posts.
2.  After you see how mistaken you were with a post, you simply claim that it has been "altered" in some desperate attempt to save face.

I am going with #2 on this one as no one needs to alter your posts to make you look stupid, you are doing a great job of that by yourself.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 19, 2014, 01:45:17 AM
Rather than take the words of CDC trolls citing vested interest stats
As explained, no stats showing a vested interest were cited.  wrt the alleged Kenya sterilization vaccine.  The stats that were cited included the ones that the catholic church presented.  Based on their figures which are higher than the one's the WHO lab reported.  These fall into the range that can be found in the human body.
Quote
and altered text
I suspect that all your crying about "altered text" probably amounts to nothing important.  If you had some very damning evidence you likely would have pointed it out. :)  You're probably talking about some place where I replaced your name with the other name that I call you "Cap-Mo-Ron".    I consider that word and Cap-Z-ro to be interchangeable.
Quote
I choose to listen to all the whistleblowers.
Not very closely.  The only one you seem to have listened to was Thompson who - in his own press statement - says he got his ideas after long talks with Hooker.  Who is only slightly less of a statistician than my left ass cheek. :)  The other person you "listened" to was Dr. Harper.  However the only thing you were willing to listen to of hers was a shock piece that she herself complained about being misrepresented.
Quote
Notwithstanding that one or more may have recanted.
"recant" means to change what you have said.  This really isn't what happened.

Quote
I can state from experience that the life of a whistleblower is never the same again...and not in a good way.
If your life is hard.  I'm sure you deserve it. :)
Quote
So, where's the reward for them if they are lying, is the question to be asked ?
Wrong question.  Nobody is lying.  Thompson is confused because he listened to a moron.  Much the way you are when you listened to him.  Dr. Harper isn't lying, she was misrepresented.  She complained to the press and got the article removed.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 19, 2014, 01:48:59 AM
People will also say anything just to gain attention.  You are a perfect example of this.

Case in point: 

No one, except a Moderator, or Stefan (Our gracious host) can change another members postings.
If I were to guess.  He's talking about being quoted.  I think there's one case where in a quote of his he uses his own name and I replace it with Cap-Mo-ron - the name I've been referring to him as for a while.

Your larger point is of course correct.  This is about getting attention.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 19, 2014, 02:08:17 AM
An incredibly informative interview by Ritchie
Allen of Gordon Duff  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eRQ__MWhf6s)discussing 9/11 and the
slaughter of schoolchildren in Pakistan as well
as other "intelligence" matters.

Our World is in the hands of some exceedingly
demented and malicious ELITES.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 19, 2014, 02:25:48 AM
If I were to guess.  He's talking about being quoted.  I think there's one case where in a quote of his he uses his own name and I replace it with Cap-Mo-ron - the name I've been referring to him as for a while.

Your larger point is of course correct.  This is about getting attention.

Well, he posted on another topic... an electronics topic on the QEG which he obviously knows nothing about, that over here, people were changing his posts illegally.  He, of course, called these people trolls and said that he took care of them, or something like that. 

Since I am active over there, and here, I was treated to him complaining about this on 2 different topics.  He never once mentioned that he was misquoted.

So, you still might be right, but, he sure appeared to imply it was something much more sinister and illegal.

Also, now he claims that He is a whistle blower, so, I suppose he can now quote himself in these debates.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 19, 2014, 03:12:54 AM
If I were to guess.  He's talking about being quoted.  I think there's one case where in a quote of his he uses his own name and I replace it with Cap-Mo-ron - the name I've been referring to him as for a while.

Your larger point is of course correct.  This is about getting attention.
And after a number of hours unless one is an admin, they cannot change their own posts either.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 19, 2014, 03:14:48 AM
And after a number of hours unless one is an admin, they cannot change their own posts either.

Exactly right.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 19, 2014, 04:00:40 AM
Wow...is this troll is all over the map or what...where's joel ?  This troll is broken for real.

Apparently after reviewing the exchange in question it became apparent he he lied when denying altering my text in a quote, in a lame effort to ridicule me...and now, by trivializing his rights violation, he's trying to clean up his mess.

As demonstrated here in the latest CDC liar fraud troll nut-bar quote pertaining to me:

" If I were to guess.  He's talking about being quoted.  I think there's one case where in a quote of his he uses his own name and I replace it with Cap-Mo-ron - the name I've been referring to him as for a while."


And with that admission, his personal ass kisser/wiper is left with egg  on his face...along with the brown stuff that goes along ass kissing/wiping.

He is likely oblivious to the what just happened...that this troll's admission makes him look kinda stoopid, given the not so astute analysis(emphasis on the 'anal' part) that he just provided a cuppla posts back.

I really don't believe he'll ever figure out that before posting its a good idea to review the subject material...and possibly wait until an issue is fully developed before shooting off.

Likely a 30 second man in other areas of life also.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 19, 2014, 04:09:00 AM
Apparently after reviewing the exchange in question
Well you fell into that one.  So you're admitting that the only thing I changed was one instance of your name in a quote.  In which I replaced it with an alias which I had been using for you for a while.
Quote
became apparent he he lied when denying altering my text in a quote
At no point is there any quote where I denied altering your text.
Quote
by trivializing his rights violation
I hate to break it to you but none of your rights have been violated by me. :)

So here's a question for you Cap?  Do you think you're being reasonable and rational?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 19, 2014, 04:10:27 AM
So, you still might be right, but, he sure appeared to imply it was something much more sinister and illegal.
Oh of course.  That's why he wouldn't point out exactly where his text was altered.  Because he knows that would make him look like he's complaining over nothing.  Which, of course he is. :)  There are times where I think I'm talking to someone with a mental illness but when I see this kind of tactical rationality the pendulum swings back toward "jerk". :)

Another interesting bit is his use of "shill".  See if anyone called me a shill and really seriously believed that every post here means a check from someone.  I'd find that person incredibly interesting to talk to.  I'd absolutely love some insight into that kind of delusion.  However every time I try and broach that with Cap it just gets ignored.  This isn't someone who really believes I'm getting paid.  He's just using words like that (and I believe he also used 'satanic' and 'murderous') to be mean.  Which is fine...but almost entirely boring.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 19, 2014, 04:27:55 AM
Oh of course.  That's why he wouldn't point out exactly where his text was altered.  Because he knows that would make him look like he's complaining over nothing.  Which, of course he is. :)  There are times where I think I'm talking to someone with a mental illness but when I see this kind of tactical rationality the pendulum swings back toward "jerk". :)

I agree.

Here is his post on the other thread:  (Unaltered, no matter what he might claim.) Bold emphasis is mine.

 Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl) (http://overunity.com/14443/quantum-energy-generator-qeg-open-sourced-by-hopegirl/msg428081/#msg428081)  « Reply #3437 on: December 17, 2014, 10:04:04 PM » Quote (http://overunity.com/14443/quantum-energy-generator-qeg-open-sourced-by-hopegirl/3435/post/quote/428081/last_msg/428092/)
 "Hi joel,

I have a broken troll on the loose on another thread...he has been rendered unable to focus and has now begun to commit criminal offenses.

he is very hard to catch...from my experience you have to say something that gets his attention = then begin to ignore him and he will see that as a weakness becoming increasing careless and bold.

Keep pretending you don't notice and will start taking liberties...like altering text and attributing it to you.

At that point you turn around fast and loudly say, AHAA!!!

And while he's still in a state of stunned surprise, all you have to do is drop a net over him.

If its any help, the troll is made up mostly of Radio Shack bargain bin items.

Also, his clothes may be tattered by now...thrift shop clothing wood be an upgrade.

Thanks.

Regards..."

So here you can see he clearly implies that "someone" a troll perhaps, is altering his text and attributing the altered text to him.  He also implies that this is a criminal matter.

But, the truth, as we all know, is that his name was changed to the name you have been calling him for a while now, and that did NOT alter the meaningless dribble of his post one iota.

As I said earlier, he does not need any help in appearing to be stupid in his posts as he is doing just fine on his own.

So, he has been busted making false accusations in order to further his agenda.  Isn't this exactly what he accuses the CDC of doing?

Hmmmm.........

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 19, 2014, 04:32:45 AM
Well, he posted on another topic... an electronics topic on the QEG which he obviously knows nothing about, that over here, people were changing his posts illegally.  He, of course, called these people trolls and said that he took care of them, or something like that. 

Since I am active over there, and here, I was treated to him complaining about this on 2 different topics.  He never once mentioned that he was misquoted.

So, you still might be right, but, he sure appeared to imply it was something much more sinister and illegal.

Also, now he claims that He is a whistle blower, so, I suppose he can now quote himself in these debates.

Bill

Sloppy drunk...zanex, or both.

Funny as hell tho.

I know I know I know, is not right to laugh at people in that state...but c'mon, I only human, there's only so many insults from a doofus a guy can take.

I how long wood you last before busting up if you had somebody that stupid saying the stupidest things and either believing them to be true, or thing that the readers are stupid enough to take him seriously.

And yes, exposing a highly connected pedophile ring makes me a whistleblower...just as holding a Patent made me an inventor.

Come to think of it, a few years back, all by my little self mind you, I came up with this circuit producing a weird anomaly...and even posted right here on this very forum...whaddya think of that huh ?

And the nerve of the likes of me posting on "an electronics thread"...indignantly stated by the forums resident ass kisser.

I guess that explains my presence there...however, the ass kisser forgot to mention why he was there...and replicating a paint by number jewel thief doesn't count.

I'm fairly certain the lamebrain never invented anything... and I'm unable to comment on whether he's a blower of anything.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 19, 2014, 04:48:19 AM
Tried and true Troll code:

Repeat the lie early and often, and people will think its the truth after a while.

That doesn't work well on the net tho...there's always the troll reset button.

Tuffsky Sh!tsky comrade.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 19, 2014, 04:55:55 AM


Sloppy drunk...zanex, or both.


Well then, please come back when your drugs wear off.  So, you don't like vaccinations but you take Zanex?  Oh well, but you probably should not drink while taking them.  It makes you look dumb.

Quote

..just as holding a Patent made me an inventor.


In your mind.


Quote

Come to think of it, a few years back, all by my little self mind you, I came up with this circuit producing a weird anomaly...and even posted right here on this very forum...whaddya think of that huh ?


You didn't read the instructions and had it hooked up wrong, ha ha.  Better luck next time.

Quote

jewel thief doesn't count.


Umm...it's Joule Thief.  Evidently, you can't even replicate the name of this circuit, ha ha.

Quote

a blower of anything.

Regards...


I suppose that is your choice.  But, not being vaccinated, you should probably be a little careful.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 19, 2014, 05:02:21 AM
Tried and true Troll code:
So I again ask you.  Do you think you are being reasonable and rational?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 19, 2014, 05:15:07 AM
So I again ask you.  Do you think you are being reasonable and rational?

Here is a partial quote from Joel from the other topic in response to where he perceived Cap-Z-ron called him a troll: (emphasis mine)

    (http://overunity.com/Themes/default/images/post/xx.gif)   Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl) (http://overunity.com/14443/quantum-energy-generator-qeg-open-sourced-by-hopegirl/msg428086/#msg428086)  « Reply #3439 on: December 17, 2014, 10:44:38 PM » 
Quote (http://overunity.com/14443/quantum-energy-generator-qeg-open-sourced-by-hopegirl/3435/post/quote/428086/last_msg/428092/)
   "Cap-z

 

You are just stubborn!

 

Why are you even in an “overunity” forum going against overunity?

 

When you are using the word “troll” you are just trolling. Obviously, at this point you just want to insult and compare dick size. That shows your weak mind to be honest.

Regards...."   


I agree with Joel.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 19, 2014, 05:21:10 AM
I think it's something of an accomplishment when your opponent is so beaten that he can't engage you at all.  I suspect that Cap knows that discussing what is or is not reasonable/rational behavior is only going to make him look bad.  Just like discussing 'altering text' would only make him look like a whiner.  Just like discussing accusations of being a shill only would make him look silly.  Just like discussing "other whistleblowers" would make him look uninformed and discussing Kenya would make him look out of his depth.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 19, 2014, 07:48:01 AM
Recapping troll antics:

The forums preeminent chief ass kisser seems to purposely (if not, he's stupider that I could imagine) mischaracterize the liberties I take with words, as grammatical errors and evidence of my stupidity.

Tiring of my calling him on his conduct the lead CDC troll becomes flustered and cleaves to the arse kissers running theme, and builds upon it, by quoting me as calling myself stupid...in so many words.

When challenged it, he lets on like nothing happened...that wasn't flying, so he posts up something like 'fixed it for ya'...and then tries to carry on as though he gets another Mulligan on that too.

Feeling trapped, he flips the switch, doing some type of 'what, who, me...moi ???' schtick, then challenging me to present the evidence...yeah, as if.

But, the good old troll reset keeps bringing things right back to him altering the text in a quote of mine, in a lame attempt to cast me in a negative light.

Throw in a collection of other trolls and a re-energised and well puckered arse kisser, joining in a cacophony of denials and trivializations and a very astupid anal-sis of how fraud isn't really fraud.

Regards...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 19, 2014, 03:40:21 PM
But, the good old troll reset keeps bringing things right back to him altering the text in a quote of mine, in a lame attempt to cast me in a negative light.
So this is all you have to complain about.  Right? :)

Everyone.  Please listen to me.  I bring you news of the utmost gravity.   I urge you to sympathize with the plight of Cap-Z-ro.  He deserves it.  More than those who have had serious health problems and definitely more than starving children.   Please.  Please.  Please.  Send him money and sympathy.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 19, 2014, 04:05:55 PM
Here is a partial quote from Joel from the other topic in response to where he perceived Cap-Z-ron called him a troll: (emphasis mine)

    (http://overunity.com/Themes/default/images/post/xx.gif)   Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl) (http://overunity.com/14443/quantum-energy-generator-qeg-open-sourced-by-hopegirl/msg428086/#msg428086)  « Reply #3439 on: December 17, 2014, 10:44:38 PM »  Quote (http://overunity.com/14443/quantum-energy-generator-qeg-open-sourced-by-hopegirl/3435/post/quote/428086/last_msg/428092/)
   "Cap-z

 

You are just stubborn!

 

Why are you even in an “overunity” forum going against overunity?

 

When you are using the word “troll” you are just trolling. Obviously, at this point you just want to insult and compare dick size. That shows your weak mind to be honest.

Regards...."   


I agree with Joel.

Bill


Its almost unbelievable he would be stupid enough to put a link up that shows only the post where joel misunderstood my approach.

Predictably, in troll like disingenuous fashion, the miscreant intentionally left out the part where joel and I got things straight.

It was understandable that joel would mistake my 'tongue in cheek' post as another attack from the trolls and their arse kisser

That malicious distortion of fact akin to falsifying evidence and qualifies him as a liar by deception.

I don't think its a stretch to suspect that this ethical perspective was a feature of his work as a private detective

There isn't a helluva lot of difference between a fraud and someone who lies by deception

This is what happens when you're really desperate to gain advantage...and you do things that shred your integrity.

You'll never catch me lying or making misrepresentations...I have too much respect for the integrity I had since birth.

With some, integrity has a price, ergo the collection of trolls and arse kissers that plague all relevant information forums.



Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 19, 2014, 04:17:17 PM
Notice I don't need back up trolls.

I work without a net.

You will never see the troll pack work without a net...or a nut for that matter.

For those scoring at home...

So far we've uncovered a CDC paid troll - caught him altering my text to use against me.

And last, but also least, we have the forum arse kisser blatantly (and stupidly) just plain making up sh!t to cast me in a negative light.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 19, 2014, 04:29:38 PM
caught him altering my text to use against me.
That is, changing, in exactly one place "Cap-Z-ro" to "Cap-Mo-ron".

...and with that in mind I'd like to join with Cap in pleading with people to sympathize with him.  He has been sorely mistreated.  Please.  If you have any decency or any good in your heart.  Please.  Think well of him.  It is the right thing to do.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 19, 2014, 04:53:38 PM
Readers are wondering if this is a day where CDC troll admits or denies his fraud...maybe they're takings odd on that in Vegas ?

Regards...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 19, 2014, 05:13:31 PM
Please stand by...

The exposed CDC fraudster, his loyal arse kisser, and a number of forum trolls will be around later to try to convince the masses that altering someones text to convey a totally different meaning is not fraud.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 19, 2014, 05:29:42 PM
a number of forum trolls will be around later to try to convince the masses that altering someones text to convey a totally different meaning is not fraud.
I never really thought about until you asked.  According to...
Quote from: Wikipedia
Fraud is a deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain

I think you might have a hard time demonstrating that I was deliberately trying to deceive anyone...or that the end result had a completely different meaning.  Perhaps you just mean "It hurts my feelings"?  So with that in mind...

...I continue to implore the masses to heap sympathy on Cap-Z-ro.  If there is a single person on overunity.com or perhaps the earth who deserves it.  It is he (or she).
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Madeo on December 19, 2014, 06:55:26 PM
what happened to this thread? Instead of discussing a controversial topic, it became all about personal attacks and trolling....


Nothing positive will come out of this...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 19, 2014, 07:33:16 PM
what happened to this thread? Instead of discussing a controversial topic, it became all about personal attacks and trolling....


Nothing positive will come out of this...

Madeo, the trolls are paid to roil the waters, so that you have to sift through an entire thread to find truth...and evidently, they are prepared to use any means possible.

They will fluctuate from one tactic to another, deflecting, rationalizing, and ridiculing, to earn their pay.

So far, we have toxic vaccination info posted up...followed up by a paid CDC troll who eventually needed the support of fellow trolls and arse kissers.

The flustered CDC troll couldn't resist the compulsion to start altering the data here too...backed up by an arse kisser, who also found himself in a position where he had to also start making things up to recover lost ground.

The arse kisser has likely vanished, after being exposed as fraud himself, while the CDC troll is left here alone, with both feet figuratively stuck in a tar baby.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: TinselKoala on December 19, 2014, 07:52:28 PM
Notice I don't need back up trolls.

I work without a net.

You will never see the troll pack work without a net...or a nut for that matter.

For those scoring at home...

So far we've uncovered a CDC paid troll - caught him altering my text to use against me.

And last, but also least, we have the forum arse kisser blatantly (and stupidly) just plain making up sh!t to cast me in a negative light.

Regards...

Oh, look, the original has been altered by making some of it RED. And the RED portion is either a blatant lie, or a crazy delusion or both. Captain Nothing cannot provide any evidence for the assertion that anyone posting here is PAID by the CDC, or by anyone else, to post here, and he knows it.  He casts himself in a negative light, blazingly, with his potty mouth and adolescent fascination with feces.  The delusion/lie of "CDC Paid Troll" is hereby documented, and from this point on it is entirely fair and truthful to refer to the person quoted as "that crazy liar Cap-z-ro." Unless and until, that is, he can come up with some supporting evidence for his crazy lying assertion, which is made time and again, as in the post immediately above. But of course he cannot.

All one has to do is to look up the definition of "internet troll" and then compare that definition to the posts in the past few pages to see who fits the bill, and who does not.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 19, 2014, 08:11:02 PM
Now the intention of this troll is attempt demonstrate that highlightint text is the same thing as altering the actual text itself

But then this is also the same troll who when he get frustrated from losing a debate likes to post stuff which implies that his opponent is a convicted criminal.

Somehow I don't think this is the kind of support the CDC fraudster troll was hoping for.

Hoping to gain advantage by posting deceptive information is epidemic among this lot.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 19, 2014, 08:33:21 PM
There is no autism among the unvaccinated people. (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/olmsted_h.html)

Quote from: Dr. Frank Noonan
I have not seen autism with the Amish.

The page has numerous links for further research.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Madeo on December 19, 2014, 10:18:36 PM
There is no autism among the unvaccinated people. (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/olmsted_h.html)

The page has numerous links for further research.

That's a really interesting information. Now, that i have thought about it,  There is really hardly any case of Autism with the Amish community and/or population that have not been vaccinated. I used to live in a 3rd world country where vaccinations isn't as common compared to the U.S.  and there were no issues with Autism.  We had everything else including mongoloid kids, but that an entirely separate issue.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 19, 2014, 10:34:31 PM
There is no autism among the unvaccinated people. (http://www.whale.to/vaccine/olmsted_h.html)
The quote is actually reported by the author of the article Dan Olmnsted.
Quote from: Kevin Strauss, MD
“The idea that the Amish do not vaccinate their children is untrue,” says Dr. Kevin Strauss, MD, a pediatrician at the CSC. “We run a weekly vaccination clinic and it’s very busy.” He says Amish vaccinations rates are lower than the general population’s, but younger Amish are more likely to be vaccinated than older generations.

“Autism isn’t a diagnosis – it’s a description of behavior. We see autistic behaviors along with seizure disorders or mental retardation or a genetic disorder, where the autism is part of a more complicated clinical spectrum.”

Kevin Strauss is a doctor at the Center for Special Children in Strasbug in Lancaster County.  He also said that Dan somehow never visited the clinic (considering that autistic children require considerably more care than neurotypicals talking to all the local docs would be far smarter than just wandering around) he added “I don’t think he spent much time in Lancaster County.”
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 19, 2014, 10:47:22 PM
That's a really interesting information. Now, that i have thought about it,  There is really hardly any case of Autism with the Amish community and/or population that have not been vaccinated. I used to live in a 3rd world country where vaccinations isn't as common compared to the U.S.  and there were no issues with Autism.
If vaccinations caused autism then you would see the autism diagnosis rate vary with the vaccination rate.  We already know this isn't true.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 20, 2014, 01:18:40 AM
The readership wood like to know how much altering of the evidence was involved in this latest presentation by the paid CDC's troll.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 20, 2014, 01:54:35 AM
Notice I don't need back up trolls.

I work without a net.


Those fellows in the white jackets chasing after you will be happy to provide a net.

Quote

So far we've uncovered a CDC paid troll - caught him altering my text to use against me.


(Disclaimer: Bold type in the above quote added by me for clarity.  I did not modify the meaning of the words, I just made them in bold type.)


Totally, 100% untrue.  I submit that none of YOUR text was altered.  The forum software automatically posts the date, time, and your screen name when you hit the "quote" button...

Therefore, you NEVER typed your screen name so, if your screen name was altered, then it was not your typed text.  NOTHING you actually typed was ever altered.  This is the truth no matter how many times you lie about it.  Every one here, except you of course, knows you are lying.  You should have been raised not to tell lies.  You are also lying about anyone on here being paid by the CDC.  If you claim this is not a lie, then provide proof.  What? No proof?  Then you are lying.

No further questions your Honor.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 20, 2014, 02:00:16 AM


... by the paid CDC's troll.

Regards...

Again with the lie that someone on here is a paid troll.  Show us the proof/evidence that you claim to have to support this or...shut up.

Where is your proof?

Where?

Too bad you were not raised better.  Telling lies demonstrates this very clearly.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 20, 2014, 02:04:39 AM


I don't think its a stretch to suspect that this ethical perspective was a feature of his work as a private detective





Regards...

I have no idea what you are talking about here.  I am not, nor have I ever been, a Private Detective.  Keep your lies coming.  Just make stuff up and try to make people think it is true.  Oh wait, that is what you have been doing all along.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Madeo on December 20, 2014, 02:25:47 AM
If vaccinations caused autism then you would see the autism diagnosis rate vary with the vaccination rate.  We already know this isn't true.

Who's we ??  Different kids have varying levels of resistance to thimerosal (vaccine preservative) like one person might be drunk off a single bottle of beer while some may take several.  This is the same for tobacco and lung cancer. Altering the rate of how much people smoke does not necessarily change the lung cancer rate.

The only real way to determine this is to have two groups of test subjects.  One who gets vaccinated and one that doesn't.  Amish, apparently,  aren't too keen on getting vaccinated and their autism rate is either not recorded or non existent. However, this is still worth investigating.   

I know you are pro vaccine and that it is okay for kids (including yours) to be injected with a substance that contains mercury. That is fine for as long as it is your kids,  not mine.



Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 20, 2014, 02:27:27 AM
I seem to recall this creep mentioning that he was a private dick.

Seems he forgot that one...someone else must remember it too...he's too dense to realize that when you tell lies its hard to keep track of them all...case in point.

Notice how he avoided making up a situation between myself and member joel, by only posting a sentence or two out of context to buttress his lie...which is fraud by its nature.

In this thread only, he's has exposed himself as a drunken, stupid, lying, discredited arse kisser...nothing more.

He can't be paid troll because they don't pay people for stupidity...unless they lowered the troll qualification standards, and have taken to scraping the bottom of the porta-potty.

Regards...


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 20, 2014, 02:39:17 AM
Kids...see what happens when you get caught red handed making things up.

If you have a massive ego (and a tiny dick) an apology is not an option...you end up in a vicious cycle of saying stupid things and making moronic rationalizations to attempt to extract yourself from the situation.

But, with me, that won't work...I have an iron grip...and only a public apology will release the hold.

In closing kids, as you go through life always remember, if you keep it real you don't have to keep track of what you say.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 20, 2014, 02:39:49 AM
Who's we ??  Different kids have varying levels of resistance to thimerosal (vaccine preservative) like one person might be drunk off a single bottle of beer while some may take several.  This is the same for tobacco and lung cancer. Altering the rate of how much people smoke does not necessarily change the lung cancer rate.

The only real way to determine this is to have two groups of test subjects.  One who gets vaccinated and one that doesn't.  Amish, apparently,  aren't too keen on getting vaccinated and their autism rate is either not recorded or non existent. However, this is still worth investigating.   

I know you are pro vaccine and that it is okay for kids (including yours) to be injected with a substance that contains mercury. That is fine for as long as it is your kids,  not mine.
Consider the issue of scale:  We are talking about 0.5mcg ethylmercury.  Next reconcile that with the fact that other environmental exposures to mercury that are far greater. 

The Amish don't suffer autism and don't get vaccinated fantasies have both already been debunked.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 20, 2014, 02:41:32 AM

(Quoted in part)

I seem to recall this creep mentioning that he was a private dick.


You recall wrong.  Never happened.

Quote

Seems he forgot that one...someone else must remember it too.


You can't remember something that never happened.  That would be stupid.


Quote

... posting a sentence or two out of context...



OK, so first you accuse folks of altering your posts, and now you accuse me of taking you out of context?
To be taken out of context, you first must have a context, which you do not.

So, what is your point?  Just more lies I suppose.

Please note where I say: " quoted in part" which means, because obviously you do not know, that all of your post is not being quoted...only a part...hence the "quoted in part" part.

Bill

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 20, 2014, 02:54:57 AM
Certainly not my quote(you have to be careful around here):

" Next reconcile that with the fact that other environmental exposures to mercury that are far greater.  "



Did it jump right out at you, like it did for me...on how it could be that someone who makes it appear they are an expert on just about everything(especially psychological tactics) has somehow neglected to consider that the "other environmental exposures" he listed weren't being INJECTED INTO THE BLOODY BLOODSTREAM !

I mean, can it be any more obvious that we are dealing with vested interest here ?

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 20, 2014, 03:04:11 AM
Already, 3 readers have requested they wood like to see more of the forum arse kisser clumsily making up stupid stuff about Cap...and then saying more and stupid stuff as Cap keeps him from getting outta the away of the blow back.

I'll do my utmost hold up my end of the board folks.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 20, 2014, 03:19:03 AM
Already, 3 readers have requested they wood like to see more of the forum arse kisser clumsily making up stupid stuff about Cap...and then saying more and stupid stuff as Cap keeps him from getting outta the away of the blow back.

I'll do my utmost hold up my end of the board folks.

Regards...

3 readers eh?  Which ones?  Can you prove this?  Of course not. Just like you can't prove anything else that you "claim".  Just more lies.  These "readers" we all know are just made up...which means you are lying about them.  You can almost be called a professional teller of none truths.  I said almost because, obviously, you are not any good at it as everyone knows that you are lying.  Please make a note...you mean "would" not "wood".  Please take a remedial English class.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 20, 2014, 03:36:11 AM
I gues I forgot to PM the arse kisser about the fictional write in readers who debuted here lat week...coincidentally, it was also on a doobie nite.

Maybe it was another booze nite for him...again.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 20, 2014, 03:51:25 AM
I gues I forgot to PM the arse kisser about the fictional write in readers who debuted here lat week...coincidentally, it was also on a doobie nite.

Maybe it was another booze nite for him...again.

Regards...

Gues?

Lat week?  Please type in English so you might be understood.  Are you high or something?  Most folks can make at least a little sense while being high.  I suppose that you are not one of them.  Do you even have a job?  You seem to be able to post on here all day.  Are my tax dollars supporting you?  I actually work for a living and do not live off of the efforts of others.  You should really try that.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 20, 2014, 04:12:44 AM
Who's we ??
Anyone who is willing to spend a little time to do a little math to refute your own beliefs.
Quote
This is the same for tobacco and lung cancer. Altering the rate of how much people smoke does not necessarily change the lung cancer rate.
It absolutely does.  Number of cigarettes smoked per person has almost perfect symmetry with a 20 year gap and lung cancer rate for over eighty years. Where have you been?
Quote
The only real way to determine this is to have two groups of test subjects.  One who gets vaccinated and one that doesn't.
Oh? And why, in your expert opinion is this the stronger test?  How much more power does that hold over epidemiological studies for things like overall thiomersol intake in children?
Quote
Amish, apparently,  aren't too keen on getting vaccinated
They are somewhat lower in the number of vaccinations.  However it's difficult to get the exact value.
Quote
and their autism rate is either not recorded or non existent.
It is neither non-existent nor unrecorded.  It is considerably better than 1 in 68 though.
Quote
However, this is still worth investigating.
Not really.  But please, tell me how you would construct this study.
Quote
I know you are pro vaccine
Absolutely wrong.  I am not pro-anything.  In fact during the anthrax attacks of 2001 I wouldn't have been vaccinated with AVA.  As it had not yet passed FDA and the information regarding it's safety profile was not public (and I was more likely to win the lottery than to get anthrax-by-mail). The only reason that I consider vaccines to be safe and effective is because that is what the useful evidence points to.  I have read probably every study heralded by anti-vaxers and I would say unreservedly that their opinions are utter crap.   Either they don't understand the study they are reading or they deliberately misunderstand how probability works or in the cases where they actually fund or participate in a study - such as when they took great joy in executing a bunch of primates - they do not understand the first thing about constructing a study.  Now all of these things happen in various parts of medical science but I rarely see a field where so much crap is focused with so much intensity as I do with people who campaign against vaccines.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 20, 2014, 04:19:46 AM
Gues?

Lat week? Please type in English so you might be understood.


This is for the intended use of the readership only...and the task of dissecting troll scroll is done solely in the interest of comedy:


If the troll will tell me the readership the meaning of " Gues? ",

I will reveal the meaning of " Lat week? "



Quote
Do you even have a job?  You seem to be able to post on here all day.  Are my tax dollars supporting you?  I actually work for a living and do not live off of the efforts of others.  You should really try that.

Bill


Apparently, his inebrience was a glass or 8 over the line when (many times) I wood mention being a health care professional...and this guy is very ill, believe me.



Quote
Are you high or something?


The stooge couldn't understand that its doobie nite at my place.



Quote
Most folks can make at least a little sense while being high. I suppose that you are not one of them.

Doobie's makes me forget to proof read sometimes...booze makes him even dumber than usual.
 

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 20, 2014, 04:39:42 AM

 

The stooge couldn't understand that its doobie nite at my place.



Doobie's makes me forget to proof read sometimes...booze makes him even dumber than usual.
 

Regards...

So, you do NOT work and smoke pot all day then?  No wonder you can't form a cogent argument.  No wonder you can post all day long.  Let me guess...this is medical marijuana right?  Is it supposed to help you with your mental disability?  (It is not working I can tell you)

So, all of our tax dollars are sent to you so you can not work, get high, and post BS on the internet?  What a leach on society you are.  I do not drink booze but,  if I did, I would not expect others to pay for it.  What a low life you are.

I have some advice for you:

Get a job!

It will make you feel better about yourself and give you some self respect, which obviously you are lacking considering the inane posts you have been making.

Possibly your posts are a cry for help?

If so, sorry, I am not a psychologist.  I do want the best for you in your life and, trust me, earning your own money instead of mooching off of others is way better for your self esteem.  I daresay that if you had a job and were paying your own way, your posts here would most likely be a lot less hostile and might make more sense.

Just think about it and consider it.  If I can help you to find a job, I will do that.

Just let me know.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 20, 2014, 05:45:14 AM
By trying to characterize me as jobless, what the arse kisser is really saying is that it is himself that is jobless, drunk (if he's not sleeping one off).

I'm posting during commercial breaks (Matlocks on)...and its doobie nite.

Everybody is still waiting for the arse kisser to go back to making sh!t up.

Regards...

 

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 20, 2014, 05:59:04 AM
What?


Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 20, 2014, 06:06:52 AM
Maybe smoking all of that pot is helping you after all?

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 20, 2014, 06:19:49 AM
The readers are still clamoring for more fake Cap smear campaigns or grammar lessons.

Regards...


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 20, 2014, 06:30:33 AM
The readers are still clamoring for more fake Cap smear campaigns or grammar lessons.

Regards...

The readers realize quite easily that it is Crapzero that smears himself on a regular basis.  No need to ask anyone else to help. You are doing just fine.

Bill

PS  Remember the swine flu scare of 1976?  Crapzero is the perfect example of what happens when you do not get your vaccinations.  Please people, let this serve as an example.  Do NOT let this happen to you.  It could have been prevented...we have the technology...but...alas, he declined.  Poor bastard.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 20, 2014, 06:46:43 AM
*guffaws*

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 20, 2014, 07:25:53 AM
*guffaws*

Is that the sound one makes when not vaccinated and he inhales pot that is treated with whatever chemicals the drug cartels decide to sprinkle on it?

Man, I would not want to be you.  Talk about lab rabbits.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 20, 2014, 08:31:41 AM
Although not directly supportive of the 'vaccination'
question this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zS8uBq25bfw) demonstrates what is missing from
the American Medical Conventional Treatment regimen.

It seems that as we 'advance' in America, we at the same
time lose track of the heart and the soul.  Watch it and
think carefully about what is coming for all of us...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 20, 2014, 03:50:08 PM
Is that the sound one makes when not vaccinated
Bill

Thats the sound the readers make when an over vaccinated arse kisser gets outed for making up lame false stories and believes he's chief of the grammar police.

Regards...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 20, 2014, 05:48:48 PM
Although not directly supportive of the 'vaccination'
question this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zS8uBq25bfw) demonstrates what is missing from the American Medical Conventional Treatment regimen.
It's actually a better illustration as to what's wrong with science reporting.  There's a difference between disease progression, behavior management and simple point outcomes for cognition.  Which is what this video appears to be about.  I confess that all I did was read some (very positive) reviews of it.  Considering that Sea Monkey gives incredible endorsements even though having never watched/read whatever s/he's promoting.  I confess I'm not willing to watch an hours worth of video just to refute a position that s/he doesn't possess in any real sense.

Anyway while I'm sure that giving people ipods is probably inexpensive and low risk.  Before claiming that you've found the key to making everything better.  You might want to see how this therapy actually works in controlled conditions rather than in emotionally manipulative videos.  As far as I can tell the literature is a resounding: "meh".

Just sayin...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 20, 2014, 07:04:41 PM
The readers now wonder how much of that drivel was made up ?

They're just sayin...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 20, 2014, 08:01:31 PM
Even our beloved pets are not safe from the
'Love of Money' evils of the pharmaceutical
industry:

Pet Medicines:  How Safe are They? (http://www.healthfreedoms.org/pet-medicines-how-safe-are-they/)

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 20, 2014, 08:07:03 PM
?

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 21, 2014, 05:00:17 PM
Crap-Z-ro is now on IGNORE.

Peace on earth, good will toward men.

Merry Christmas everyone.

Bill

PS  Crap-Z-ro always needs to have the last word, and I am giving that to him.  Typical troll behavior on his part. Some deep seeded psychological need drives this behavior.  Merry Christmas Cap, this is my gift to you, the last word.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 21, 2014, 05:37:15 PM
Crap-Z-ro is now on IGNORE.

Peace on earth, good will toward men.

Merry Christmas everyone.

Bill

Translation:

The arse kisser grew tired of being outed as a repetitive liar...among other unsavory things.

Arse kissers, like vampires like to avoid mirrors.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 23, 2014, 06:25:43 AM
The Love of Money is capable of overriding common sense
with physicians too. (http://www.naturalnews.com/047427_Paul_Offit_vaccines_religious_exemptions.html#)

It is apparent that to some physicians their Hippocratic Oath
is meaningless.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 23, 2014, 06:47:05 AM
SeaMonkey believes that linking to something is equivalent to actually having an rational argument and making a point (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTc--4jz0GQ)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 23, 2014, 08:10:04 AM
Au Contraire mon frere!  The SeaMonkey believes that
readers are able to evaluate resources and arrive at
their own conclusions.  Whatever they may be inclined
to decide for themselves is not my concern - all are free
to utilize their free will on these matters to the full extent
of their abilities.

Wisdom is arrived at gradually through the assimilation
of information offered by numerous resources.  In the
final analysis, we must all learn to think for ourselves and
to rely upon our own judgments.

The SeaMonkey brings to the attention of interested readers
information which is not readily available within the Main
Stream Media.  TRUTH is the objective.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 23, 2014, 04:25:05 PM
The SeaMonkey believes that readers
...should be provided with the most misleading and poor quality information.
Quote
Wisdom is arrived at gradually through the assimilation of information offered by numerous resources.

Yawn.  Sorry but this is clearly the opposite of what you believe.  If this was the truth then the expectation would be for you to produce hart-to-find articles that are both for and against an issue.  Ones with particularly interesting points of view.

Instead you are a monotone of anti-medical nonsense. You produce articles that are not hard-to-find and do not approach an issue in a novel way.  For the most part they are old and have been refuted many times over.
The SeaMonkey brings to the attention of interested readers information which is not readily available within the Main
Stream Media.
Apparently SeaMonkey is living in 1995 where the Internet is not mainstream and is spelled with a capital 'I'.
Quote
TRUTH is the objective.
Nope.  You have provided nothing useful for determining the truth.  Simply a fountain of poorly explained and (mostly) catastrophically ignorant opinion.  Teaching people about critical thinking, reason and math.  In fact not one thing you have posted attempts to teach a GENERAL problem solving skill.  Hence you are clearly the opposite of what you purport to be. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 23, 2014, 08:03:38 PM
You are of course free to have a differing opinion and
to express that opinion as you choose.  That is the
beauty of such a forum as this one.

Your opinions are always informative and revealing;
particularly to those who are adept at such interpretation.

Carry on.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 23, 2014, 11:27:36 PM
You are of course free to have a differing opinion
Well it's a good thing we have you here to grant people the right to have opinions. :)  I mean if that's the way you really feel.

Again if you are actually interested in the truth.  Then show, clearly and unambiguously one specific piece of information which helps people differentiate between a true thing and an untrue thing.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 24, 2014, 12:54:21 AM
Quote from: sarkeizen
...
Again if you are actually interested in the truth.  Then show, clearly and unambiguously one specific piece of information which helps people differentiate between a true thing and an untrue thing.

There was a time not too long ago when such
skill was demonstrated in the home, in public
institutions and in the public schools. :)

At a time several decades ago when the campaign
of mass disinformation and deception was yet in
its early stages of development.  Since the advent
of mass mind control as practiced today in radio,
television, hollywood, periodicals, publications and
government it may be that most people are unfamiliar
with the skill. :o

But we do seem to have an inherent desire to find TRUTH
hard-wired into our being.  Exposing ourselves to information
which runs contrary to the 'official story line' may be all that
is needed to re-discover that dormant skill. 8)

In any case, TRUTH is on the way.  It shall make its appearance
world-wide in the not too distant future. ;)

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 24, 2014, 01:24:13 AM
In other words, by your own admission.  You have contributed nothing to determining the truth.

I appreciate you coming clean about this.  Now go somewhere else and pretend you know something over there. :)

(If you disagree the challenge is still open.  Quote one thing you have stated which clearly and unambiguously helps people determine truth from untruth.)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 24, 2014, 06:56:30 AM
TRUTH stands upon its own merits.  It does not
need anyone to spoon feed it into an empty
head.

Those who seek TRUTH recognize it and cherish
it.

The Wisdom of Man in its phoniness cannot accept
the simplicity of the transaction, always believing
that without persuasive 'help' TRUTH cannot be found.

Au revoir.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: ramset on December 24, 2014, 07:11:11 AM
SeaMonkey
I see the Oracle of all knowledge and research regarding Vaccines and Autism thinks he has something to say that we want to hear.


maybe he needs a bigger box to stand on.....


for myself
I will assume nothing and _Pay attention_ until we find the reason for Autism,nor will I assume that the Amish just hide their Autistic children and results ...
no stone left unturned


and yes saskatchewan vaccines are to be investigated.....
perhaps you should rethink your investment portfolio ??


thx
Chet
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 24, 2014, 04:59:25 PM
TRUTH stands upon its own merits.  It does not need anyone to spoon feed it into an empty head.
...and by your own admission that's all you do.  You can't provide one quote from anything you've said where you are providing people with a tool to differentiate the truth from untruth.
Quote
Those who seek TRUTH recognize it and cherish it.
Except that's, again by your own admission: not you.

Quote
always believing that without persuasive 'help' TRUTH cannot be found.
...and again by your own admission.  That is precisely, exactly and utterly yourself.  You provide nothing to differentiate truth from untruth.  Hence the only thing you provide is an opinion meant to persuade. 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 24, 2014, 05:10:38 PM
I see the Oracle of all knowledge and research regarding Vaccines and Autism
I assume you're talking about me.  There's a certain irony when you mock people because they have investigated and analyzed something to considerable more depth than you have.  Why not just say: "I, Chet am ignorant and I'm proud of it"
Quote
thinks he has something to say that we want to hear.
I'm quite sure that you have no desire to hear what I have to say.  Despite my having no problem listening to what any of you have to say (when you choose to have something to say - instead of just posting links and funny pictures).
Quote
I will assume nothing
So how does that work?  Don't you have to assume there is true equipoise in order believe that both "sides" of an issue need to be investigated?
Quote
and yes saskatchewan vaccines are to be investigated.....
They already are and have been.  I simply maintain that people who suggest that vaxed, unvaxed studies will provide useful information are people who need to take a statistics class.
Quote
perhaps you should rethink your investment portfolio ??
Oh...is this implying that I have investments in vaccine companies like Merck?  Is that only reason for my thinking vaccines are safe and effective that you can think of?  :)  As far as investments go.  I have no investments in vaccine companies that I know of.   I have a few managed funds and a few grouped investments which could carry things like that.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 24, 2014, 10:42:34 PM
The Paradox of Our Age.

For each step we move 'forward' we seem to
take many steps 'backward.'

The following is an excerpt of
“The Paradox of Our Age,” from Words Aptly Spoken,
by Bob Moorehead. (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Bob_Moorehead)

We have taller buildings but shorter tempers; wider
freeways but narrower viewpoints; we spend more
but have less; we buy more but enjoy it less; we have
bigger houses and smaller families; more conveniences,
yet less time; we have more degrees but less sense;
more knowledge but less judgement; more experts,
yet more problems; we have more gadgets but less
satisfaction; more medicine, yet less wellness; we take
more vitamins but see fewer results.

We drink too much; smoke too much; spend too
recklessly; laugh too little; drive too fast; get too angry
quickly; stay up too late; get up too tired; read too
seldom; watch TV too much and pray too seldom.

We have multiplied our possessions, but reduced
our values; we fly in faster planes to arrive there quicker,
to do less and return sooner; we sign more contracts
only to realize fewer profits; we talk too much; love too
seldom and lie too often.

We’ve learned how to make a living, but not a life;
we’ve added years to life, not life to years. We’ve been
all the way to the moon and back, but have trouble
crossing the street to meet the new neighbor. We’ve
conquered outer space, but not inner space; we’ve
done larger things, but not better things; we’ve cleaned
up the air, but polluted the soul; we’ve split the atom,
but not our prejudice.

We write more, but learn less; plan more, but
accomplish less; we make faster planes, but longer
lines; we learned to rush, but not to wait; we have
more weapons, but less peace; higher incomes, but
lower morals; more parties, but less fun; more food,
but less appeasement; more acquaintances, but fewer
friends; more effort, but less success. We build more
computers to hold more information, to produce more
copies than ever, but have less communication; drive
smaller cars that have bigger problems; build larger
factories that produce less. We’ve become long on
quantity, but short on quality.

These are the times of fast foods and slow digestion;
tall men, but short character; steep in profits, but
shallow relationships. These are times of world peace,
but domestic warfare; more leisure and less fun;
higher postage, but slower mail; more kinds of food,
but less nutrition. These are days of two incomes, but
more divorces; these are times of fancier houses, but
broken homes.

These are days of quick trips, disposable diapers,
cartridge living, throw-away morality, one-night stands,
overweight bodies and pills that do everything from
cheer, to prevent, quiet or kill. It is a time when there
is much in the show window and nothing in the stock
room. Indeed, these are the times!
 
Change starts with each person being individually
responsible for their actions and behaviour.  What
kind of world are we voting for with the way we choose
to live our life?

- See more at: http://www.spiritscienceandmetaphysics.com/the-paradox-of-our-age-how-our-society-is-backwards/#sthash.KvJG6D7l.dpuf (http://www.spiritscienceandmetaphysics.com/the-paradox-of-our-age-how-our-society-is-backwards/#sthash.KvJG6D7l.dpuf)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 24, 2014, 10:45:56 PM
We have taller buildings but shorter tempers; wider freeways but narrower viewpoints; we spend more but have less; we buy more but enjoy it less; we have bigger houses and smaller families; more conveniences, yet less time; we have more degrees but less sense; more knowledge but less judgement; more experts, yet more problems; we have more gadgets but less satisfaction; more medicine, yet less wellness; we take more vitamins but see fewer results. We drink too much; smoke too much; spend too recklessly; laugh too little; drive too fast; get too angry quickly; stay up too late; get up too tired; read too seldom; watch TV too much and pray too seldom.
We have multiplied our possessions, but reduced our values; we fly in faster planes to arrive there quicker, to do less and return sooner; we sign more contracts only to realize fewer profits; we talk too much; love too seldom and lie too often. We’ve learned how to make a living, but not a life; we’ve added years to life, not life to years. We’ve been all the way to the moon and back, but have trouble crossing the street to meet the new neighbor. We’ve conquered outer space, but not inner space; we’ve done larger things, but not better things; we’ve cleaned up the air, but polluted the soul; we’ve split the atom, but not our prejudice. We write more, but learn less; plan more, but accomplish less; we make faster planes, but longer lines; we learned to rush, but not to wait; we have more weapons, but less peace; higher incomes, but lower morals; more parties, but less fun; more food, but less appeasement; more acquaintances, but fewer friends; more effort, but less success. We build more computers to hold more information, to produce more copies than ever, but have less communication; drive smaller cars that have bigger problems; build larger factories that produce less.
Isn't it interesting how that is all spoon-feeding ideology?  Not a word about reason and how to do it. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 24, 2014, 10:59:57 PM
What is written may be considered or rejected
as each chooses.

Wisdom eventually enters in as we learn to
make correction to our wrong decisions.

Discovering TRUTH is never an instantaneous
process.  Too often it involves the pain of suffering
consequences as we respond to inappropriate desires.

Very sadly, some will never seem to 'learn' in this
present lifetime.  But there is hope never-the-less.
TRUTH is on the way!

But first there will be much chaos and destruction
as malevolent men (including women) carry out their
nefarious PLAN for World Domination.  It is happening
now before our very eyes.
 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 25, 2014, 01:08:02 AM
I like the idea of personal responsibility.  I hope that others agree that personal responsibility includes making reasonable inquiries into ideas before accepting them as beliefs.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 25, 2014, 01:56:29 AM
Good advice.  Question everything that is propagated
both from government sources via the mainstream
media as well as alternative sources.  In this present
age disinformation abounds.

With unrelenting effort the ability to discern will fully
develop.

TRUTH is simply amazing.
 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 25, 2014, 02:04:34 AM
Good advice.  Question everything that is propagated
both from government sources via the mainstream
media as well as alternative sources.  In this present
age disinformation abounds.

With unrelenting effort the ability to discern will fully
develop.

TRUTH is simply amazing.

Now this I totally agree with.  Due diligence and personal responsibility to find what is real...AND, what is not.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 25, 2014, 03:05:46 AM
What is written may be considered or rejected as each chooses.
In other words:  All you are doing is promoting a particular set of ideologies.  Right?  You also seem to do so without even the slightest amount of self-examination.  Right?

So given that all you do is push unexamined opinion.  How does this help move people toward the truth?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 25, 2014, 03:06:25 AM
Good advice.  Question everything that is propagated both from government sources via the mainstream media as well as alternative sources.  In this present age disinformation abounds.

In other words be the opposite of you. :)

Why must everything SM says be like listening to 4th grade debate club?  Seriously, has anyone ever thought about having a reasonably objective set of criteria to APPLY to ideas or having a useful well-defined and consistent process for evaluating ideas?  Or is there some attraction to poorly defined and logically inconsistent epistemology that I'm not seeing. For example is everyone incapable of dealing with a philosophy that can't be stated on a bumper sticker?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 25, 2014, 03:07:09 AM
I like the idea of personal responsibility.  I hope that others agree that personal responsibility includes making reasonable inquiries into ideas before accepting them as beliefs.
But not before advertising them? :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 25, 2014, 11:24:57 AM
Advertising an unverified idea as something one would like others to accept as true is foolish or worse.  Advertising an unverified idea in a solicitation for help with diligence is fine to me.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 25, 2014, 07:10:30 PM
Advertising an unverified idea as something one would like others to accept as true is foolish or worse.
"Negligent" is the word I use.  It's pretty obvious that SM at least attempts to appear of the later category.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 25, 2014, 09:38:12 PM
Quote from: MarkE
Advertising an unverified idea as something one would like others to accept as true is foolish or worse.  Advertising an unverified idea in a solicitation for help with diligence is fine to me.

There is never any pressure for others to accept
anything as 'true.'  TRUTH does not come from
casual acceptance without verification.

Materials presented should be naught more than
a beginning in the search for what is TRUE and
what is The Lie.

Our modern world has become enamored of The
Lie and makes use of it extensively to manipulate
into existence a false 'reality.'  Those who believe
that TRUTH is gained by simple acceptance are
easy game for the Liars.

Persevere!  TRUTH is within everyone's grasp!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 25, 2014, 10:39:58 PM
Doctor Oz is finding that there is much resistance
to healing by nutrition from The Establishment. (http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=108832)

True healing which is accomplished without spending
large sums payable to Big Pharma is tantamount to
heresy!

In so many ways, America seems to have lost its
zest for truth and integrity.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 26, 2014, 02:14:18 AM
There is never any pressure for others to accept anything as 'true.'
...or to run trwhen you shout "fire" in a crowded theater. You appear to present specific ideas as being generally correct (or considerably more so) despite the fact that you either know them to be false or they are trivially falsified.  I'd call this negligent.
Quote
TRUTH does not come from casual acceptance without verification.
Can you provide any verification for any of the things you present?  Didn't think so. :)  In other words you don't have any truth and by virtue of that you can not usefully contribute to the pursuit of truth. :)
Quote
Persevere!  TRUTH is within everyone's grasp!
Probably not yours. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 26, 2014, 03:05:41 AM
There is never any pressure for others to accept
anything as 'true.'  TRUTH does not come from
casual acceptance without verification.

Materials presented should be naught more than
a beginning in the search for what is TRUE and
what is The Lie.

Our modern world has become enamored of The
Lie and makes use of it extensively to manipulate
into existence a false 'reality.'  Those who believe
that TRUTH is gained by simple acceptance are
easy game for the Liars.

Persevere!  TRUTH is within everyone's grasp!
That's all fine philosophy.  There appear to be large discrepancies between that stated philosophy and your promotion of ideas that are belied by well established evidence.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 26, 2014, 03:07:48 AM
Doctor Oz is finding that there is much resistance
to healing by nutrition from The Establishment. (http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=108832)

True healing which is accomplished without spending
large sums payable to Big Pharma is tantamount to
heresy!

In so many ways, America seems to have lost its
zest for truth and integrity.
Dr. Oz is an industry unto himself who has as much self interest as any other corporation.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 26, 2014, 05:23:49 AM
Quote from: MarkE
That's all fine philosophy.  There appear to be large discrepancies between that stated philosophy and your promotion of ideas that are belied by well established evidence.

If it is indeed well established as TRUTHFUL evidence
well and good.

If on the other hand, the 'well established evidence' is
deceitfully manufactured, that is another matter.

Assumption of Responsibility entails finding TRUTH.

Whether Dr. Oz conducts his business as a typical self-
interested corporation remains to be seen.  Advocating
nutrition by means of natural sources doesn't seem to
be as financially lucrative as conventional 'big pharma'
medicine.  Not to mention the fact that nutrition does
have the capability to enable the body to heal.

Junk Foods and Big Pharma seem to employ the same
sort of modus operandi for their benefit.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 26, 2014, 05:36:07 AM
You may or may not believe such things.  When asked for hard evidence that supports various claims you have made you have been very quiet. 

As to the good Dr.  Here is a comment he made in his own words concerning promotions he has done on his show:

Quote
Quote
"“When we write a script, we need to generate enthusiasm and engage the viewer,”"... “I recognize that often times they don’t have the scientific muster to pass as fact. I have given my family these products.”

Caveat emptor.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 26, 2014, 05:38:28 AM
If it is indeed well established as TRUTHFUL evidence
well and good.

If on the other hand, the 'well established evidence' is
deceitfully manufactured, that is another matter.

Assumption of Responsibility entails finding TRUTH.

Whether Dr. Oz conducts his business as a typical self-
interested corporation remains to be seen.  Advocating
nutrition by means of natural sources doesn't seem to
be as financially lucrative as conventional 'big pharma'
medicine.  Not to mention the fact that nutrition does
have the capability to enable the body to heal.

Junk Foods and Big Pharma seem to employ the same
sort of modus operandi for their benefit.

Dr. Oz makes millions of dollars.  Not that that is a bad thing but, you don't trust million dollar corporations yet you trust Oz?  Of course, he got his start on Oprah and has sold many books, does seminars, TV appearances, radio spots,etc.  His money is coming from somewhere and I feel sure that he takes the money source(s) into consideration when making decisions for his career.

If what some folks here think about big pharma were true, they would have taken out Oz a long time ago.  Ask why this has not happened.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 26, 2014, 05:39:51 AM
Doctor Oz is finding that there is much resistance
to healing by nutrition from The Establishment. (http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=108832)
It's pretty funny when an article tries to make any point but the one in it's title.  :)
Quote
True healing which is accomplished without spending large sums payable to Big Pharma is tantamount to heresy!
I'm pretty sure this means you didn't even read the article you posted.

Just pointing out to everyone that the article is not about Dr. Oz at all.  It's one of Mike Adams (another person who makes considerable money off "natural" products and services)  meandering highly-self referencing and self-aggrandizing nonsense posts. :) Adams is also somewhat unhinged as he has at least once appeared to suggest that anti-GMO activists should consider murdering scientists and journalists. (although he edited his post afterwards and put in a disclaimer for some of the harsher text)

Is that your view as well SeaMonkey? Is that what you promote here? :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on December 26, 2014, 09:24:40 AM
The TRUTH: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pravda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pravda)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 26, 2014, 10:37:09 AM
The TRUTH: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pravda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pravda)
Da
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 26, 2014, 05:56:12 PM
I think you'll find http://weeklyworldnews.com/ to be more reliable.  They even tell you it's reliable.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 26, 2014, 07:43:26 PM
Quote from: MarkE
Caveat emptor.

This has always been and due to present
conditions in our modern World is ever
more important today.

Trust nothing.  Doubt everything.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 26, 2014, 07:55:09 PM
Quote from: sarkeizen
...
Is that your view as well SeaMonkey? Is that what you promote here? :)

What The SeaMonkey promotes is encouragement
to search for TRUTH.  There is much deception in
what is propagated in today's Media.

TRUTH will be discernible when we have become
ready to process it.  To find TRUTH it is necessary
to look outside the fabricated reality promoted by
those in power.  It is the desire of those who have
the means and the resources to replace TRUTH
with The Lie.  A malicious AGENDA is at work.

All People should be treated with respect;  as we
would ourselves like to be treated.  Even our
enemies are deserving of our love.  But not the
phony sort of 'love' which is popularized today;
TRUE Love.

It too is available for discovery.

Examples of how the AGENDA of DECEPTION works:

Who did the Sony hack? (http://www.thedailybell.com/news-analysis/35945/Was-the-Sony-Hack-a-Domestic-Ploy/?uuid=6F808B25-5056-9627-3C1C0B7DA4C0C1D3)

Why is the West attacking Russia? (http://www.thedailybell.com/editorials/35944/Ron-Holland-Putin-It-Is-Time-to-Play-Your-Ace-in-the-Hole/?uuid=6F808B25-5056-9627-3C1C0B7DA4C0C1D3)

The megalomaniacs of the West care only about
their future.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: fritznien on December 26, 2014, 09:03:26 PM
for another view on adams try this.
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/12/26/mike-adams-defends-dr-oz-as-usual-hilarity-ensues/
more stuff for SM to ignore.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 26, 2014, 09:12:48 PM
Getting to the very heart of the matter of
the AGENDA of DECEPTION. (http://henrymakow.com/000305.html)

Our World has become a very crazy place.

Finding the solution to the problem of ignorance. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=i05m8w7rD_4)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 26, 2014, 10:22:19 PM
Getting to the very heart of the matter of
the AGENDA of DECEPTION. (http://henrymakow.com/000305.html)

Our World has become a very crazy place.

Finding the solution to the problem of ignorance. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=i05m8w7rD_4)
Do you support this headline claim on the link you supplied?

Quote
Quote
The suppression of Christmas is a symptom of

the cancer that infects mankind. We have been

subverted by a satanic cult, the Illuminati, that is responsible

for war, terror and cultural degradation in general. Society is

 satanically possessed.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 26, 2014, 10:30:38 PM
What The SeaMonkey promotes is encouragement to search for TRUTH. 
...and this is demonstrably false.  At no point have you provided anything remotely resembling something that would teach people to discern truth from untruth.  Hence if there is some search for truth going on.  You have opted out.
Quote
All People should be treated with respect
...uh you just posted an article from someone who compares particular scientists to Nazi's.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 26, 2014, 10:34:07 PM
Everyone knows that it's the the suppression of Kwanzaa which is the true mark of the Illuminati and their orbital mind control lasers.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 26, 2014, 10:36:29 PM
Everyone knows that it's the the suppression of Kwanzaa which is the true mark of the Illuminati and their orbital mind control lasers.
Don't forget the evil subliminal messages being transmitted by the dancing Kia rodents.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 26, 2014, 10:41:53 PM
Don't forget the evil subliminal messages being transmitted by the dancing Kia rodents.
...which originate from the subverted Church of the SubGenius and Trekkies.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 27, 2014, 02:18:15 AM
...which originate from the subverted Church of the SubGenius and Trekkies.
Even now gray matter of unwitting sleeper agents has been replaced with dreaded red matter.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 27, 2014, 03:22:08 AM
Hey, come on.  Festivus is being suppressed more than any other holiday.  People have to celebrate it behind closed doors living in fear that they will be discovered and reported by their neighbors.

I had to close my drapes so no one could see my Festivus pole.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 27, 2014, 03:35:59 AM
My neighbours always complain about the noise when it comes time for the feats of strength.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 29, 2014, 11:09:41 PM
The recent Autism explosion may be the result
of Glyphosate poisoning (http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=109006) of the food supply
more than any other factor.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 30, 2014, 12:43:15 AM
The recent Autism explosion may be the result
of Glyphosate poisoning (http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=109006) of the food supply
more than any other factor.
Autism is increasing as is use of flat panel versus CRT televisions.  Coincidence? 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on December 30, 2014, 03:52:30 AM
I think we all can agree there is no going backwards be it cell phones, computers, computer displays, pesticides, herbicides, fertilizers or immunizations and so on thus the question remains... what is the way forward?. There is this argument that there is no going back and in many respects I do agree however there is no resolution to the conflict, no answer to the question to be found here.


I mean no offense but everyone seems overly involved with debating a mute point and it seems there is no rational debate towards a real solution and I must ask what is it exactly that were debating?. 5th beer, it is only my opinion but if the endless debate never answers the question,if it never ends in resolution nor closure then why debate the subject at all?. it all seems like so much chatter and noise, so impulsive, so much ado about nothing... :) .


AC
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on December 30, 2014, 04:31:53 AM

What's the way forward? It's simple:
-Don't vote
-Post meme pictures that discourage voting and other means of participation in the political process
-Feel disenfranchised 
-Hoard guns and gold
-Post more memes and buy Alex Jones' penls enlargement pills in huge quantities.
-Feel even more disenfranchised
-Blame the Joos
-Post some more memes
-???
-Profit
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on December 30, 2014, 05:05:30 AM
@orbut 3000
Wow good answer in a really strange yet disconcerting way but I'm not sure I understand your point?. It's like trying to fit the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle in which all the pieces are the same color which doesn't actually form a picture at all. Why don't you tell us what's really on your mind, hmm?.


AC
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on December 30, 2014, 05:20:42 AM
I think we all can agree there is no going backwards be it cell phones, computers, computer displays, pesticides, herbicides, fertilizers or immunizations and so on thus the question remains... what is the way forward?. There is this argument that there is no going back and in many respects I do agree however there is no resolution to the conflict, no answer to the question to be found here.


I mean no offense but everyone seems overly involved with debating a mute point and it seems there is no rational debate towards a real solution and I must ask what is it exactly that were debating?. 5th beer, it is only my opinion but if the endless debate never answers the question,if it never ends in resolution nor closure then why debate the subject at all?. it all seems like so much chatter and noise, so impulsive, so much ado about nothing... :) .


AC
Vaccinations have had a huge positive impact on public health.  Scourges like polio have been nearly wiped out due to modern vaccines. 

Repeatedly a claim has been put forward that vaccinations threaten individual health.  Some people believe that claim and have relied upon it to prevent vaccinating their children against at least some diseases.  The most often cited claim is that vaccines contain mercury, notably Thimerosal. 

I have looked into this and found that according to the CDC Thimerosal is only used in multiple dose flu vaccine distributions.  The CDC states that any given vaccination contains 0.5ug of Methyl Hg.  The CDC states that Methyl Hg is fully eliminated by the body and so does not accumulate. 

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on December 30, 2014, 05:22:00 AM
@orbut 3000
Wow good answer in a really strange yet disconcerting way but I'm not sure I understand your point?. It's like trying to fit the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle in which all the pieces are the same color which doesn't actually form a picture at all. Why don't you tell us what's really o your mind, hmm?.


AC

Where did I lose you?.


ETA:  I think I posted this in the wrong thread, but:
 
The way forward is to find a balance between worst and perfect, between black and white. There is no chance to have perfect solution, but there is a good chance to steer our society around the most dangerous obstacles. 


But it does not help when the most idealistic and passionate just opt out and boycott the only process that is in place to influence and change things. There is no instant gratification in the democratic process, it takes time, patience and persistence. And that may be good, even, because it protects us a little bit from expressing the worst in us. And there is a lot of bad and ill inside us that wants to creep up and destroy our civilized communities by spreading hate, fear and rage. Almost all western democracies are designed to even out those flashes of rage.
An analogy:
The voting population is the weather and their will is slowly reflected in the climate that is the slowly changing actual policy.
Of course this system is not flawless.
Lobbyists and special interests can be a big problem. That's a field where pressure needs to applied.
Transparency is very important.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on December 30, 2014, 06:01:26 PM
I think we all can agree there is no going backwards be it cell phones, computers, computer displays, pesticides, herbicides, fertilizers
However it seems entirely plausible to have different phones, computers, etc..
Quote
or immunizations
Not that long ago you were arguing that generally those with low-IQ (as discovered by observation...somehow) get immunized.  Doesn't that mean you can go back?  At least the implication would be that the high-IQ folks have gone back.  People like SM and Capt-Z-ro at least appear to claim that there is almost no efficacy in vaccination (and you claim there is much higher risk in it).  So again it seems trivial to go back...unless vaccines actually DO work and they are very, very, very safe.  Let me know when you figure out what you're saying.
Quote
I mean no offense but everyone seems overly involved with debating a mute point and it seems there is no rational debate towards a real solution and I must ask what is it exactly that were debating?
Well given that SM, you and Capt-Z-ro can't really produce a point an defend it.  I'd say nothing.  It's more like watching you guys make strong assertions and then watch you act like having selective amnesia.

However, in most cases if you actually were somehow able to function in this way.  We would be debating if these things in fact cause the problems that people like you, SM and Capt-Z-ro claim.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 01, 2015, 07:51:32 AM
A wee bit more food for thought:
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 01, 2015, 08:02:52 AM
A wee bit more food for thought:

Where do you find this unsubstantiated crap?  Where is the study?  Who did the study?  Where are the references?

None?

We expect no less.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 01, 2015, 08:26:37 PM
Quote from: Pirate88179
Where do you find this unsubstantiated crap?  Where is the study?  Who did the study?  Where are the references?

None?

We expect no less.

Those are the kinds of questions you would do well
asking your Physician, your Pharmacist, the
Pharmaceutical Industry and the CDC/FDA.

Very unfortunately for the health of the People,
much data put forth in published 'studies' is
pure fabrication.  Even the data that is valid is
very short term with no apparent concern for
possible long-term adverse effects.

Yes, we do need TRUTH.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 01, 2015, 11:42:04 PM


Very unfortunately for the health of the People,
much data put forth in published 'studies' is
pure fabrication.


Where is your proof for this statement?  What data is false?  Who has proven this?  What studies are using false data?

More, unsubstantiated posts.  You may believe this but, you do not show us the evidence as to why you believe this.  So, why should we just take your word?  Did you just take some other person's word?

Do you see what I mean?

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 02, 2015, 01:45:26 AM
A wee bit more food for thought:
I think they look more stupid this way (like that ominous thunderstorm over the evil vaccinating CVS pharmacy LOL) but YMMV.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 02, 2015, 02:02:11 AM
Where is your proof for this statement? 
Deeper than that.  What would have to be true for sea monkey's statement to be true.  What does "much of the data" mean?  Most?  To anyone with a little bit of background in statistics it's pretty obvious if SM is implying that MOST data is wrong/false then anyone of asserts that is far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far more likely not to know what they are talking about.

But if you're Seamonkey you don't care. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 02, 2015, 02:24:33 AM
Quote from: Pirate88179
Where is your proof for this statement?  What data is false?  Who has proven this?  What studies are using false data?

More, unsubstantiated posts.  You may believe this but, you do not show us the evidence as to why you believe this.  So, why should we just take your word?  Did you just take some other person's word?

Do you see what I mean?

I can encourage you to make the effort to find
the 'proofs' but I cannot prevent you from doing
so.  Only you yourself are able to prevent yourself
from doing the essential research and digging.

Even the MainStream Media will on occasion report
falsified study data.  Not nearly as often as they
should but only enough to create the impression that
they are credible in what they report.  Most cases of
falsified data are reported only in Technical Journals
or by private correspondence among high echelon
personnel.  Most reports are never presented to the
general public.

You should not 'take anyone's word' for any subject of
discussion.  Everything that you may wonder about should
be proven to your own satisfaction.  Even when (especially
when) the subject matter is presented by those who you've
been programmed to see as ethical authorities.

It isn't always easy to find TRUTH.  In fact, it is becoming
more difficult.  While we still have the internet, hone your
research skills to find TRUTH.  The liars and deceivers are
working to suppress the ability of the internet to counter
their lies with TRUTH.  You know, the old 'conspiracy theory'
gig.

Or not, as you choose.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 02, 2015, 03:05:40 AM
Only you yourself are able to prevent yourself from doing the essential research and digging.
So you believe the things you post?  If so, doesn't that mean YOU have done the digging? If so where is that data?   Isn't asking you for the data which proved this to YOUR satisfaction a reasonable step in finding the truth?

I mean, I'm pretty sure all you need is some line on a poorly designed graphic before you believe something (Well, as long as it conforms to your pre-existing beliefs) but it would be interesting to find out different and perhaps show you how incredibly lax and stupid your digging process is. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Dog-One on January 02, 2015, 03:20:51 AM
I can encourage you to make the effort to find
the 'proofs' but I cannot prevent you from doing
so.

Actually SeaMonkey, I'd prefer you refrain from saying any more than you already have.  There is a natural justice in all this.  Those that prefer to argue with you are far more inclined to blindly follow the mandates of the authorities.  To be quite honest, that suits me fine, let'm go.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 02, 2015, 03:54:13 AM
Actually SeaMonkey, I'd prefer you refrain from saying any more than you already have.  There is a natural justice in all this.  Those that prefer to argue with you are far more inclined to blindly follow the mandates of the authorities.  To be quite honest, that suits me fine, let'm go.
It's interesting how you think SeaMonkey is actually providing useful information.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Dog-One on January 02, 2015, 05:07:09 AM
It's interesting how you think SeaMonkey is actually providing useful information.

I'll admit, I did find the dialog in this thread useful.  Unlike SeaMonkey though, I anticipated the responses he received.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 02, 2015, 05:18:17 AM
I'll admit, I did find the dialog in this thread useful.  Unlike SeaMonkey though, I anticipated the responses he received.
I think it's easy to anticipate people asking "provide support to your point"...and in a lot of SM's posts...."please actually make or clarify your point".  These are actually part of the social contract in conversation.  People expect your words to, as they say "go somewhere".

:)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on January 02, 2015, 05:42:53 AM
More news


Quote
By 2013, there were 800 children with narcolepsy who had been linked to vaccination against the flu across Europe, with doctors reporting more cases emerging in adults. The Scandinavian studies were supported by research from France, Norway, Ireland and the UK with some scientists reporting a seven to 13-times higher risk of narcolepsy after vaccination.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/w5/sleeping-sickness-a-w5-investigation-into-the-sudden-rise-in-childhood-narcolepsy-1.1524420#ixzz3NdO1CjQS (http://www.ctvnews.ca/w5/sleeping-sickness-a-w5-investigation-into-the-sudden-rise-in-childhood-narcolepsy-1.1524420#ixzz3NdO1CjQS)[/size][/color]


http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/11/01/flu-vaccine-and-its-side-effects.aspx







Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 02, 2015, 06:21:49 AM
Unless you've gone "Seamonkey" (the disease where you can only post links and prattle vacuously).  Can you answer how strong do you consider the evidence is here and why?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on January 02, 2015, 06:45:04 AM
More news

 http://www.ctvnews.ca/w5/sleeping-sickness-a-w5-investigation-into-the-sudden-rise-in-childhood-narcolepsy-1.1524420#ixzz3NdO1CjQS (http://www.ctvnews.ca/w5/sleeping-sickness-a-w5-investigation-into-the-sudden-rise-in-childhood-narcolepsy-1.1524420#ixzz3NdO1CjQS)[/size][/color]


http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/11/01/flu-vaccine-and-its-side-effects.aspx
Each of those articles are rather dated.  Where is the follow-up data?  Does it support or refute the suspicions offered?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 02, 2015, 07:15:11 AM
Could someone present evidence that injecting foreign into the human body have any positive effect ?

To date, I haven't seen any...I don't meant the "evidence" forwarded by vested interests.

I mean a a totally i dependent body.

What...no such body exists !!!

I wonder why that is...with all those $2000.00 toilet seats they buy...on your dime too.

I've lost track of how many people told me of getting the flu right after the vaccination.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: kEhYo77 on January 02, 2015, 08:51:29 AM
Hi.
Here is something about false data.

Quote
My name is William Thompson. I am a Senior Scientist with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, where I have worked since 1998. I regret that my coauthors and I omitted statistically significant information in our 2004 article published in the journal Pediatrics. The omitted data suggested that African American males who received the MMR vaccine before age 36 months were at increased risk for autism. Decisions were made regarding which findings to report after the data were collected, and I believe that the final study protocol was not followed.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/046630_CDC_whistleblower_public_confession_Dr_William_Thompson.html#ixzz3NeGNEFOZ (http://www.naturalnews.com/046630_CDC_whistleblower_public_confession_Dr_William_Thompson.html#ixzz3NeGNEFOZ)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 02, 2015, 02:15:41 PM
Hi.
Here is something about false data.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/046630_CDC_whistleblower_public_confession_Dr_William_Thompson.html#ixzz3NeGNEFOZ (http://www.naturalnews.com/046630_CDC_whistleblower_public_confession_Dr_William_Thompson.html#ixzz3NeGNEFOZ)
Except the data that wasn't used in the aggregate analysis were excluded on the original standards of the study.  The inclusion of the data only changes the result when you use an analysis method which is more likely to get a false positive.

Thompson may well be feeling guilty and may be sincere in his apology but that doesn't make his opinion correct. :)

(Also the verb "learn" really doesn't belong with any link to "natural news". :) )
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on January 02, 2015, 04:31:06 PM
@Cap-z-ro
Quote
I've lost track of how many people told me of getting the flu right after the
vaccination.
Just yesterday I heard on the radio that flu cases are spiking in Alberta and the latest vaccinations are only around 50% effective. So really the best they have amounts to a toss of a coin 50/50. Ain't science wonderful?. I swear fact would seem to be stranger than fiction most days and normalcy a form of mental disorder promoted by underachievers.

AC
 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 02, 2015, 04:44:51 PM
It's kind of interesting how you've been asked all sorts of questions and all you can do here is give Capt-Z-ro a handjob.
and the latest vaccinations are only around 50% effective. So really the best they have amounts to a toss of a coin 50/50.
50% effective in what sense?  No, you didn't think about it.  Did you?
Quote
normalcy a form of mental disorder promoted by underachievers.
Well in that sense you've shown a pretty "normal" ability at statistics.  I hope math has little to do with your career. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on January 02, 2015, 05:21:31 PM
@Sark
Quote
50% effective in what sense?  No, you didn't think about it.  Did
you?
Well in that sense you've shown a pretty "normal" ability at statistics.
Uhm perhaps you could enlighten me then because I would love to hear your spin on this statement.
Quote
People who come into contact with any strain of influenza this year will have
only about a 50-50 chance of being protected by the flu shot.
Now what do you think this statement means?.
AC
 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 02, 2015, 05:40:09 PM
@SarkUhm perhaps you could enlighten me then because I would love to hear your spin on this statement. Now what do you think this statement means?.
AC


He's busy trying to locate stats made up by the vaccinators...or failing that he will just alter the figures like usual.

And, I'm willing to bet his right hand is arthritis ridden and no longer good for hand jobs...a condition that may even have cost him his job at the bath house, as his lips are easily chaffed.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 02, 2015, 07:14:04 PM
perhaps you could enlighten me then because I would love to hear your spin on this statement.
Didn't you say that the risks of vaccination weren't worth the benefits?  Then retreat to a position of "it's just my opinion"?

Didn't you imply that the IQ of someone could be determined by observing them getting vaccinated?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on January 02, 2015, 07:53:55 PM
@Sark
Quote
Didn't you say that the risks of vaccination weren't worth the benefits?  Then
retreat to a position of "it's just my opinion"?
I'm not sure I understand, when I say something then obviously that is my opinion isn't it?. Im' not sure how one could retreat to a position of "it's just my opinion" when all we have are opinions... it makes no sense.
Now back to my last question, which part of the statement below do you not agree with again?.
Quote
People who come into contact with any strain of influenza this year will have
only about a 50-50 chance of being protected by the flu shot.
AC
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 02, 2015, 08:53:59 PM
I'm not sure I understand, when I say something then obviously that is my opinion isn't it?. Im' not sure how one could retreat to a position of "it's just my opinion"
Yawn.  Like talking to a 4th grader. Sure what you say is often your opinion however it's rarely purely your opinion.  When someone says "the risks outweigh the benefits" they are referencing something that is not purely a matter of opinion.   Hence you can, in fact retreat to a position of "it's just my opinion".

You also implied that you (and others) could determine someones IQ by watching them getting vaccinated.

"People who come into contact with any strain of influenza this year will have only about a 50-50 chance of being protected by the flu shot."

Well...

a) That isn't what you said originally and...
b) it's what I'd call "poorly phrased to the point of being useless".  "Any strain" - you mean any extant strain?  That's not exactly a useful metric since there are at least eleven serotypes and who knows how many extant strains.  Even if you were to assume you meant "prevalent strains" to determine what that means requires subtyping and less than a third of all virology is subtyped during flu season.  Not to mention we aren't even halfway through flu season.  So even here the statement is deceptive at best.  Now assuming I've been hired to do your homework for you and attempt to come up with a different statement which might be accurate.  One could see that the majority of typing that has been done is H3 and there have been concerned that there isn't a good match between what's in the current vaccine (A/California/7/2009 (H1N1)pdm09,A/Texas/50/2012 (H3N2), B/Massachusetts/2/2012) and a H3N2 strain which has been circulating.  Given that vaccine effectiveness varies between 60% and 80% for Influenza A anyway.  50% effectiveness isn't a bad estimate.  However that's just me trying to find an argument that fits your numbers.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on January 02, 2015, 09:13:18 PM
@SarkUhm perhaps you could enlighten me then because I would love to hear your spin on this statement. Now what do you think this statement means?.
AC
Let's suppose that this year's vaccine prevents flu in exactly 50%of patients who receive the vaccination.  Please explain what additional information, if any, that you would evaluate before making a recommendation for or against a given segment of the population getting the vaccination or skipping it.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 02, 2015, 09:13:42 PM
Quote from: Dog-One
Actually SeaMonkey, I'd prefer you refrain from saying any more than you already have.  There is a natural justice in all this.  Those that prefer to argue with you are far more inclined to blindly follow the mandates of the authorities.  To be quite honest, that suits me fine, let'm go.

DogOne,
I'm truly appreciative of your sage advice.
Being eternally hopeful I'm too often inclined
to expend effort where it would be best to just
let things roll along on their own. ;)

Those who've not been inside the "Authoritarian
Beast' simply cannot appreciate that it frequently
resorts to lies, deceptions and other unethical
activities as it works to implement the AGENDA.

In due time all will be awakened whether they wish
it or not...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 02, 2015, 09:31:53 PM
I'm too often inclined to expend effort
There really isn't much evidence to suggest you do this.  So don't worry. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 02, 2015, 09:53:21 PM
Quote from: sarkeizen
There really isn't much evidence to suggest you do this.  So don't worry. :)

When one is stuck within the Matrix one has very
limited vision.  Fear not, your eyes too will be opened
when the time is right.  All will be awakened whether
they wish it or not.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 02, 2015, 09:56:21 PM
When one is stuck within the Matrix one has very...
See, it requires no effort to make sweeping generalizations and imply that someone is mistaken.  However to clearly state a point and defend it does.  Hence, by your own admission once again.  You don't really put any effort in here. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: marathonman on January 02, 2015, 10:36:52 PM
I think it is hilarious to see people scramble every year like good little dumb robots to get their flu shots that have been proven time and time again that they are totally ineffective against fighting anything except your immune system and causing all kinds of heath problems. not to mention they have trace amounts of mercury and lead derivatives that do massive damage to your brain, liver, nervous system, sterility  and God knows what else.
i have stupid friends that get these idiotic shots every year and are sick all the time but someone like myself that knows better than to fall for this bull crap and knows the truth have been completely healthy like (forever).
The MOB owns 51% of the Pharmaceutical Companies so you do the math (if that's possible)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on January 02, 2015, 10:43:23 PM
@Sark
Quote
Yawn.  Like talking to a 4th grader. Sure what you say is often your opinion
however it's rarely purely your opinion.  When someone says "the risks outweigh
the benefits" they are referencing something that is not purely a matter of
opinion.
Oh your such a sweet talker, lol, So my opinion is not really my opinion even if I said it is according to you, I think. Uhm ok let's just leave it at that then. ??? 
AC
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on January 02, 2015, 11:01:25 PM
@Mark E
Quote
Let's suppose that this year's vaccine prevents flu in exactly 50%of patients
who receive the vaccination.  Please explain what additional information, if
any, that you would evaluate before making a recommendation for or against a
given segment of the population getting the vaccination or skipping it.
I would recommend everyone review both sides of the argument for and against the issue for themselves and not believe something from someone they do not even know such as me. Personally I get the flu once every few years for a day or so and then I'm good to go. As such a flu shot which may only be 50% effective and may have some serious side effects makes absolutely no sense for me. It is not even a minor inconvenience for me so really I see no point in it whatsoever.
My concern is that the government and pharmaceutical agencies seem to be saying the flu shot is "safe and effective". However at the same time the media is saying the flu shot may only work 50% of the time and that there may be serious side effects. I don't know who is correct, how could I, but I do know someone is most likely wrong and I would rather be safe than sorry. I simply offered an alternative view to the main stream one , no more no less.
AC
 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 02, 2015, 11:15:30 PM
So my opinion is not really my opinion
No.

Something you say may be your opinion, however it may also actually be true.  Are you with me so far?  Do you need help?  No?  Ok.  Let's move on...

In fact the assumption in conversation is that when you assert something about the world you are doing so with the implicit proviso that your assertion is not just something not based on anything in reality.  In other words people are interested in the true parts of your opinions or at least discerning the true parts from the not-true parts.  Got that?  Think you can handle the next step?  No?  Ok take five, rest your brain.  Feel up to it now?  Good.

Now due to this when someone wants you to explain yourself and you offer nothing but "It's just my opinion".  You are considered to have retreated to this position.  Why?  Well because the assumption was that you were expressing not just that you believe something but that there is some reason - hopefully a good reason that it is true.  Another way to look at it is that conversation wouldn't work if we assume that every point of fact is more likely than not something the speaker just made up.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 02, 2015, 11:25:27 PM
Personally I get the flu once every few years for a day or so and then I'm good to go.
So a day or two and then no symptoms at all?  Then it's likely you are not getting the influenza that we vaccinate against...and that's probably in no small part because you are surrounded by people who are vaccinated.
Quote
As such a flu shot which may only be 50% effective and may have some serious side effects makes absolutely no sense for me.
It probably does.  You are much more likely to get the flu than you are a side effect.
Quote
My concern is
Doubtful that this is your concern, you've already asserted that you unequivocally determined that vaccinations generally are not worth the risk. It's kind of ingenuous to pretend like you have any equipoise here...but I'll play along... :)
Quote
the government and pharmaceutical agencies
What is a pharmaceutical "agency".  Is that like the CIA - Ciprofloxacin Investigative Agency?
Quote
seem to be saying the flu shot is "safe and effective". However at the same time the media is saying the flu shot may only work 50% of the time and that there may be serious side effects.
Are you saying that "safe and effective" isn't compatible with working up to 90% of the time and being able to have a million seasonal flu shots before an adverse effect?
Quote
I do know someone is most likely wrong and I would rather...
...think it couldn't possibly be yourself.  I get it. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on January 02, 2015, 11:55:39 PM
@Sark
LOL
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 03, 2015, 12:01:02 AM
@Sark
LOL
Kind of a step back from "It's my opinion."

It seems pretty reasonable that if you had any even partially thought out rationale for your position.  We would have likely seen it by now.   Is there a reason you keep playing "hide my argument"? Do you enjoy the attention that much? :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 03, 2015, 02:14:59 AM
A statistical study published in Science (http://rt.com/news/219347-cancer-random-bad-luck/) which offers
good cause to scratch one's head.  The 'scientists'
seem baffled - but then again, it is only statistical.

Quote from: Co-Author
“Cancer-free longevity in people exposed to cancer-causing agents, such as tobacco, is often attributed to their ‘good genes,’ but the truth is that most of them simply had good luck,” said the study co-author Bert Vogelstein.

The Cancer Industry is a huge money making
proposition.  Apparently it needs more money.
Advocating more testing to detect early cancer
definitely produces more money...

The establishment places little emphasis on the
need for healthy nutrition and strengthening of
the immune system.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 03, 2015, 02:19:46 AM
Another vacuous SeaMonkey post.
A statistical study published in Science (http://rt.com/news/219347-cancer-random-bad-luck/) which offers
good cause to scratch one's head.
Why is this a "good cause to scratch one's head"?
Quote
Advocating more testing to detect early cancer definitely produces more money...
Who is doing this where?
Quote
The establishment places little emphasis on the need for healthy nutrition
Who is "the establishment".  Doctors definitely emphasize improvements in lifestyle.
Quote
and strengthening of the immune system.
The immune system isn't a muscle.  It's not even a single thing and outside of vaccines there's very little you can do to "strengthen" it.  Sorry.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 03, 2015, 03:03:38 AM
Quote from: Sark-eizen
The immune system isn't a muscle.  It's not even a single thing and outside of vaccines there's very little you can do to "strengthen" it.  Sorry.

That is certainly a very strange statement.  Is
that an example of what is being taught in
establishment institutions today?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 03, 2015, 03:57:33 AM
That is certainly a very strange statement.  Is that an example of what is being taught in establishment institutions today?
then
I have no idea what an "establishment institution" is.  So I couldn't tell you.  However if you can provide some non-moronic information demonstrating how the immune system (whatever you mean by that) can be strengthened in some significant way.  Then please do.

I expect either something you've barely read which has a headline which you think agrees with you or sweet, sweet silence...hmmm but now that I've said that the smart money is probably on "disappear for a bit and post something entirely different pretending this conversation (if you can call it that) didn't exist".

Let's see which one you go for.... :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 03, 2015, 04:32:22 AM
...it's likely you are not getting the influenza that we vaccinate against...

I take it that wood be the 'royal' "we"...which in this case wood mean the 'vested we'.


Quote
You are much more likely to get the flu than you are a side effect...

Great advice folks...gamble that you won't have a life altering reaction to the cocktail of dubious content in vaccinations...OR, up your hygiene protocols during "flu season".


Quote
...you've already asserted that you unequivocally determined that vaccinations generally are not worth the risk. It's kind of ingenuous to pretend like you have any equipoise here...

Wow, I'd like to see the figures, which were compiled by an independent agency, that doesn't exist, that will back up these ludicrous statements.


Quote
Are you saying that "safe and effective" isn't compatible with working up to 90% of the time and being able to have a million seasonal flu shots before an adverse effect?

Now he's rockin' stats and numbers...but, whats baking them up you wood ask ?  Other that teir own "study's" that is.

Nothing, the readers are saying.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 03, 2015, 07:50:03 AM


The Cancer Industry is a huge money making
proposition.  Apparently it needs more money.
Advocating more testing to detect early cancer...


"more testing to detect early cancer"

Isn't that kinda like conducting tests to determine which cells were the first to die from the impact of the bullet ?...totally ignoring where the bullet originated...

Metaphorically speaking, one may conclude the bullet had the Dow Chemical stamp of approval.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 03, 2015, 10:36:01 PM
Quote from: sarkeizen
I have no idea what an "establishment institution" is.  So I couldn't tell you.  However if you can provide some non-moronic information demonstrating how the immune system (whatever you mean by that) can be strengthened in some significant way.  Then please do.

I expect either something you've barely read which has a headline which you think agrees with you or sweet, sweet silence...hmmm but now that I've said that the smart money is probably on "disappear for a bit and post something entirely different pretending this conversation (if you can call it that) didn't exist".

Let's see which one you go for.... :)

Postings, such as that above, which contain many
words but little substance;  provocative appeals for
'engagement' in the framework of sophistry; lacking
sincerity and appearing to arise from mindless regurgitation
of the 'official story line' are best left to expire in their own
basket.

Mindless Conformity to what flows down from the Establishment
is not my gig.

An Short Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ErT-5FUxS2k) which explains well how such
'operatives' do their 'thing' and what motivates them.

Question everything!  Think Critically!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 04, 2015, 12:10:21 AM
Very comprehensive video.

It appears the 'royal' shill is out of gas (hot air)...maybe his arse kisser has something to add.

Oh, thats right, he's only programmed for yes man input...and grammar critique.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 04, 2015, 03:01:29 AM
provocative appeals for 'engagement' in the framework of sophistry;
It's more about asking you to support your point.  That is, sadly for you not sophistry.  Unless you are claiming that all you can produce is sophistry. :) In fact the only person who is keeping us from discussing your points critically is you.
Quote
Think Critically!
Perhaps can you can show me where you have engaged in critical thinking of any kind in the ideas you post here.  How much time have you spent attempting to refute those ideas.  The answer seems to be zero.  Let me know. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 04, 2015, 04:09:08 AM
He keeps asking for relevant points, yet ignores them when presented.

Is Cap feeling ignored, the readers wonder ?

Nope...just avoided...like the plague, fittingly enough.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 04, 2015, 07:01:34 AM
Quote from: sarkeizen
It's more about asking you to support your point.  That is, sadly for you not sophistry.  Unless you are claiming that all you can produce is sophistry. :) In fact the only person who is keeping us from discussing your points critically is you. Perhaps can you can show me where you have engaged in critical thinking of any kind in the ideas you post here.  How much time have you spent attempting to refute those ideas.  The answer seems to be zero.  Let me know. :)

Nay, your invitation is declined so as not to become
an enabler of your addiction.  Others may choose to
play that role for you if they desire.

It is presumed that you have the ability to conduct
research, digest resource materials and in time
come to your own considered conclusions.

Whether you're capable of existence outside the
Matrix is not positively known, however, the
language of your postings would indicate that
such may be an option to fearful to contemplate.

It is hard for someone to believe something when
their source of salary requires their not believing
it.  Such is life in the Matrix.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 04, 2015, 07:32:46 AM
your invitation is declined
Well it's nice to see you fessing up to deliberately thwarting the discussion of your views.  That's your business but it is interesting. :)

Quote
It is presumed that you have the ability to conduct research
On your views?  Nope, it is demonstrably impossible for anyone to research with any measurable degree of success what you believe without you being available to discuss it.  If you have something useful to say, you should say it.

Anyway, anytime you actually want to subject your views to critical thought orders better than your own.  Feel free to post them clearly and be willing to answer questions and provide supporting information.  If you want to keep pretending you have something to say, keep withholding your views. 

Let me know when you want to talk with the grownups. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 04, 2015, 08:37:09 AM
Sark-eizen,

Your need for intercourse (addiction) is
unappealing.

Whatever views I may possess are unimportant.

Your views of my views are unimportant.

What is important is finding TRUTH about all things.
Finding TRUTH often demands that we look in what
we may think of as 'unusual' places.  We need to be
fearless in our search and not let concerns about what
others may think become an impediment.

Those who are dependent upon the Matrix for all manner
of sustenance and whose loyalty is devoted to the Matrix
will find it very difficult to deviate from what is considered
'normal' thinking for fear of being accused of heresy.

For them the Matrix is all, does all and demands all.  Criticism
or critical thinking is not permitted.

Freedom to them is not freedom unless it is accompanied
by the rattle of their chains.

When you develop your individuality and decide to break
free from the restraints of the Matrix, discussion at some
level may be a real possibility.

Those who've awakened to your plight will not be persuaded
by your desperate pleas.  Your 'programming' is all too
obvious.


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 04, 2015, 08:50:57 AM
Whatever views I may possess are unimportant.
The truth is they are clearly, obviously and inescapably important for anyone who is interested in the truth.

If they contradict my views and they are correct and I am interested in the truth then clearly they are important to me.  Unless you're claiming that all of your views are less correct than my own.  If that's your position then clearly you have nothing to offer me. 

But in that case, if you truly have even the tiniest interest in the truth.  Then you would provide your opinions in plain, unambiguous terms so they may be discussed and your views subjected to critical thought well beyond anything you are capable so your views would become more correct.

See despite your whining there are only two options to people interested in the truth.  Either one or more of your views are better than my own and therefore they should be presented to me to correct my errors or your views should be presented so that they may be corrected by me - as your critical thinking is probably amongst the worst anyone has ever seen.  I'm reasonably confident that my left sock is considerably better at determining the truth than you are. :)

Your refusal tells us that you are someone who is uninterested in the truth. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 04, 2015, 09:20:20 AM
Truth be told, “vaccinations” are only band-aids for the body.

The same “vaccination” will be needed for next year!!!!!! and that only is to a virus frequency only! And the “vaccination” cannot be used again to the same virus that becomes “immune” to it. Speakeing of immune, the only vaccination there is, is a way to SUPPORT our immunity!

Don't even want to go there where cancer is just lazy people not hunting for food!!!!

These stupid scientists are so smart that have figured out life yet we are heading down south, well whats the vaccination to the existence of this world? Doctors!!!!

PS. thanks web
 developer for not banning great minds. You need to be a millionaire`-*!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on January 05, 2015, 12:43:50 AM
Health insurance, vaccinations and cancer screening is a rubbish, folks. Connect the money and follow the dots...
The truth is out there. Suppressed, yes. But it's out there just look it up.


Yeah, Folks, just buy them secret 12 p formulation for lots of stamina's and healthinesses and advanced apostrophy.
http://store.infowars.com/Secret-12_p_1427.html (http://store.infowars.com/Secret-12_p_1427.html)

TRUTH. Study it out. On the internet.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 05, 2015, 12:50:20 AM


Don't even want to go there where cancer is just lazy people not hunting for food!!!!


Cancer is caused by lazy people not hunting for food?

Man, what sort of drugs are you on?

Holy crap!  Or better yet....

Great Scott!

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 05, 2015, 12:28:50 PM
Quote
Man, what sort of drugs are you on?

I'm use to speaking in a psychophysical way mostly. Cancer is two things only 100% genetic and influential!!! Those are the only two things!! Being more at risk of cancer is mainly to the genetic code! And I believe in medicine to a certain extend but then I see GREED, or, ignorance. When a doctor believes he knows everything there is to learn in life just because he is only HELPING the immune system fo the body.

Doctors only HELP the immune system of the body = nothing else nothing more!. And this is very simplistic and expected because our “evolution” is what got us here and not doctors healing bodies? Well here I go again getting ahead of myself!

People need to hunt for food in order to process it! It is not just a matter of feeding them GENERIC stuff! Since the world is not generic! How to explain this?

The facts are that there are millions of microbes in all animals bodies trying to take over the body. Cancer is just the immune system trying to protect the body. “inflammation” cancer would not exists if the body would not protect the body!!! period. So you have to understand how the inflammation first occurs? Define the inflammation 100% from all angles and then define the preventative measures and then from that you will understand those that are born genetically predisposed!

But for some reason I don't have a feeling you can think about that!

Quote
Holy crap!  Or better yet....

Great Scott!

blah blah blah, explain how cancer is born? Explain inflammation and how is born? Then explain the steps the inflammation gets inflated? It is really not that hard to understand! It is all genetic or influenced. That is all. There is nothing more to try to figure out. Obesity causes cancer....being skinny causes bulimia....plain and simple stuff!

I seriously don't think you have the thoughts of how cancer works!

Well lets prove that right now today!

How does cancer work? (remember when I asked you how dishwashers work and you JB welded a fan blade lol. From that simple explanation of how dishwashers work, it showed you only based 'fixing" dishwashers by that alone! where you failed miserably. So I find it hard to believe anything that comes out of your writings/mouth, truth be told = facts)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 05, 2015, 02:37:04 PM
I'm use to speaking in a psychophysical way mostly.
Your phrasing isn't very cogent.
Quote
Cancer is just the immune system trying to protect the body.
How exactly?  What success rate would this have?  Cancer is an umbrella term for a number of different diseases which are related by all having various rates of unregulated cell growth.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: ramset on January 05, 2015, 03:28:57 PM
According to Dr. Stephanie Seneff, Senior Research Scientist at the MIT Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory, by 2025, half the kids born in the U.S. will be diagnosed with autism.Dr. Seneff isn’t respected by the ivory towers of the pharmaceutical medicine paradigm or industrial agriculture, but she has something to say about autism. She is a computer scientist who transitioned into biology and toxicology, so people like to attack her credentials, but what Dr. Seneff has to say is key, and many other mainstream researchers have been negligent in reporting these findings.
She has been studying autism for over 7 years, along with the environmental factors that lead to the disease. Decreased exposure to sunlight, poor diet, vaccines (specifically aluminum and mercury), as well as glyphosate [color=rgb(27, 142, 222) !important]toxins[/color] from RoundUp are causing skyrocketing rates of autism. She explains this in a two-hour presentation given recently at Autism One.
Aluminum and Glyphosate
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
2025....remember 2005 ,that's how far away we are from 2025...
1 in 2 .thats a BIG change for your society .


Heresy.... silly.....?


snark,  you better start paying attention..the next generations to hit the planet ,will be  quite "modified"
very odd ..very odd indeed...


Chet
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 05, 2015, 04:45:07 PM
She has been studying autism for over 7 years, along with the environmental factors that lead to the disease. Decreased exposure to sunlight, poor diet, vaccines (specifically aluminum and mercury), as well as glyphosate [color=rgb(27, 142, 222) !important]toxins[/color] from RoundUp are causing skyrocketing rates of autism. She explains this in a two-hour presentation given recently at Autism One.
Aluminum and Glyphosate
Well firstly AutismOne is a conference for cranks but let's put that aside for a minute.  Shall we? Next it's worth looking at her webpage and see that while she has lectured a fair bit about these topics - she has published virtually nothing.   As someone who knows something about universities I'll tell you this.  As long as you don't get arrested or cost the institution money.  They don't care what you lecture on.  The majority of this persons education is in EE and CS.  So when some uneducated person says Seneff has been "studying autism for 7 years" they don't mean the same thing as someone who actually researches autism.  However, again let's put that aside.

Of the things on her website I saw a presentation she made for the Weston Price foundation which specifically mentioned vaccines.  So I looked at the slides.  While they don't give her notes, you'll see that most of what's being presented is just stuff from other known cranks.  Like Blaxil and Habakus. 

So what I'd suggest is that Seneff adds nothing to the discussion.  She has done virtually no original research and relies on people who are almost complete morons in their methodology and treatment of research.  IMHO you could cut off Mark Blaxil's head and he would continue produce equally useful information to what he has been making his money off for the past years. :)

The 2025 prediction isn't mentioned much but were I to guess it's probably based on extrapolation based on the idea that already refuted arguments are correct.  If you have anything directly linking to the math they are using for this prediction (but not a video I have little patience for one of the slowest methods of transferring information) I'd be happy to show you how stupid they are being (or admit I'm wrong but more likely the former) :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: ramset on January 05, 2015, 05:08:36 PM
Sigh...
she did mention 167 peer reviewed papers [apparently a bit more than the 2 persons  you mentioned].
and What position does she hold at MIT ??


stick your head back in the sand box..errhh hows that go??
nothing to see here folks
Move along...



Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 05, 2015, 05:45:00 PM
she did mention 167 peer reviewed papers [apparently a bit more than the 2 persons  you mentioned].
Then please post one that you feel provides very strong and clear evidence of a vaccine causing autism.  If there's 167 papers that make her points very clearly then she doesn't need to refer to Blaxil who has 0 to his name.  However you probably won't because when someone says something like that you don't think you just swallow it whole. :)
Quote
and What position does she hold at MIT ??
Perhaps you, because you know all about universities can tell me what you think her position has to do with her providing something worth discussing?  Again, I'm reasonably sure you can't answer this. :)

I more expect that you because you really haven't researched anything.  Will just pull a SeaMonkey - pretend there's information out there somewhere and it's up to someone else to make your argument for you (and then refute it). :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on January 05, 2015, 06:34:39 PM
@Ramset
Quote
According to Dr. Stephanie Seneff, Senior Research Scientist at the MIT Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory, by 2025, half the kids born in the U.S. will be diagnosed with autism.Dr. Seneff isn’t respected by the ivory towers of the pharmaceutical medicine paradigm or industrial agriculture, but she has something to say about autism. She is a computer scientist who transitioned into biology and toxicology, so people like to attack her credentials, but what Dr. Seneff has to say is key, and many other mainstream researchers have been negligent in reporting these findings.


It would seem to be a vicious circle, those outside the circle who have no vested interest are ridiculed while those within it who represent a clear conflict of interest are not. It is simply another flavor of racism in my opinion and they have simply replaced the color of ones skin with credentials.


It would seem to me a computer scientist would know how to gather meaningful data better than anyone else as this is their field of expertise. So really she is being criticized because she has no vested or conflict of interest as the other researchers working within the system obviously do. It is odd how so many in science claim to be independent and unbiased and yet their employment relies on a lack of real solutions. You see if they actually found a cure or solution to any problem then they would no longer be needed and find themselves unemployed. It is quite ridiculous when we think about how the system works fundamentally.


At which time we could make a simple observation, billions upon billions are poured into research each year and yet we find they have found no real solutions to much of anything. Thus I must presume they are either stupid or incompetent or both. In the real world when a person is not getting the job done they are fired however in academia this would not seem to be the case. I believe it may rely on the terminology, Academia: professional scholars and students. Now what does that tell you?, why I know a few people who have went to university for over 25 years and never held a full time job and never done anything which matters in any way... a professional student, lol.


Thus we might understand their profession is not dependent on solutions but solely to retain their status or employment as a student or scholar. In effect they have created the perfect circular system whereby results do not matter but retaining their status is the primary concern which of course relates directly to their income. Why we may as well just come out and say it, academia is white and everyone else black which of course explains why the method of choice is degrading and ridiculing rather than open unbiased debate.



AC
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 05, 2015, 07:13:20 PM
It would seem to be a vicious circle
That's not what that idiom means - unless you add "Mrs. Parker and the" to the beginning. :)
Quote
those outside the circle who have no vested interest are ridiculed
Actually everyone has a vested interest in being right.  Mark "the moron" Blaxil has sold "vaccines causes autism" for years.  It would be nice if he could have a Pauline moment but it's not likely.  His entire career is as much or more based on this idea as Offit is on the opposite (probably more because Offit's pre-guardasil rep was more high-profile than Blaxil's was).
Quote
while those within it who represent a clear conflict of interest are not.
Your idea of conflict of interest is ridiculously distorted.  Certainly many people in the scientific community and those doing research have something to gain from the success of various pharmaceuticals however none of them have as much to lose as people who go around crusading on a particular idea.   
Quote
It is simply another flavor of racism in my opinion and they have simply replaced the color of ones skin with credentials.
LOL.  Racism is about differentiating based on race or ethnicity the reason that is wrong is because those things clearly do not have anything to do with (or it is reasonable to assume such) peoples ability to the vast majority of things in life.

However to compare that to the idea that we are reluctant to let people who have no experience as plumbers do plumbing.  Is both monumentally stupid and offensive.   Good show there.

Quote
It would seem to me a computer scientist would know how to gather meaningful data better than anyone else as this is their field of expertise.
No. Computer science, as a discipline generally sits between one of two polls.  Implementation - e.g. knowing how to write code and Algorithms - e.g. knowing how a particular approach scales in memory and time with input size.  This has absolutely nothing to do with "gathering meaningful data" you utterly. ignorant. moron.

Quote
yet their employment relies on a lack of real solutions. You see if they actually found a cure or solution to any problem then they would no longer be needed and find themselves unemployed. It is quite ridiculous when we think about how the system works fundamentally.
Your assumption is that there is an exceptionally small number of problems to be worked on in a particular field.  You can prove, in computer science since you are pretending (stupidly) you know something about this.  That there is no sort algorithm which can outperform a complexity of O(n log n) when the input width is arbitrary.   Yet somehow nobody kept this a secret and nobody got fired in this field as a result.   Please be stupid elsewhere.

Quote
Thus we might understand their profession is not dependent on solutions
So according to you.  If I found a cure - however you're defining that - for a disease.  You don't think that would help my employment?  This is really what you think.  That if I was a medical researcher and applied for the director of research at another institution that having two or three disease cures under my belt would actually harm my chances of getting that position?

...and people think academics are out of touch.  Sheeesh. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on January 05, 2015, 08:12:44 PM
@Ramset

It would seem to be a vicious circle, those outside the circle who have no vested interest are ridiculed while those within it who represent a clear conflict of interest are not. It is simply another flavor of racism in my opinion and they have simply replaced the color of ones skin with credentials.


It would seem to me a computer scientist would know how to gather meaningful data better than anyone else as this is their field of expertise. So really she is being criticized because she has no vested or conflict of interest as the other researchers working within the system obviously do. It is odd how so many in science claim to be independent and unbiased and yet their employment relies on a lack of real solutions. You see if they actually found a cure or solution to any problem then they would no longer be needed and find themselves unemployed. It is quite ridiculous when we think about how the system works fundamentally.


At which time we could make a simple observation, billions upon billions are poured into research each year and yet we find they have found no real solutions to much of anything. Thus I must presume they are either stupid or incompetent or both. In the real world when a person is not getting the job done they are fired however in academia this would not seem to be the case. I believe it may rely on the terminology, Academia: professional scholars and students. Now what does that tell you?, why I know a few people who have went to university for over 25 years and never held a full time job and never done anything which matters in any way... a professional student, lol.


Thus we might understand their profession is not dependent on solutions but solely to retain their status or employment as a student or scholar. In effect they have created the perfect circular system whereby results do not matter but retaining their status is the primary concern which of course relates directly to their income. Why we may as well just come out and say it, academia is white and everyone else black which of course explains why the method of choice is degrading and ridiculing rather than open unbiased debate.



AC
Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy.  No matter how qualified an expert is, it is the data and not the expert's representation of the data that tells the story.  Experts like Garwin say cold fusion claims are a load of bovine excrement.  Whether Garwin is right or wrong is not determined by his expertise but by the actual data.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 05, 2015, 09:01:21 PM
Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy.
Not exactly the way you seem to be using it.  Authorities, that is people are acceptable sources of information about a subject in an argument.  What is usually meant by "appeal to authority" is when a person cited is not an expert, misinterpreted or is asserting a non-consensus view (which is the case here but it seems more clear to simply say "they are not an expert and they are asserting a non-consensus view")

Quote
is not determined by his expertise but by the actual data
An expert saying something to you IS actual data.  It's just data where it's hard to quantify the error.  Didn't you say something roughly like: People absolutely MUST pay attention to people who meet your particular criteria for scientists (careful, diligent) even if they claim something utterly implausible?  I thought, to you ignoring those people would be hubris of the highest order. :)

Yet here you are saying that it's only their data that matters in terms of judging their rightness or wrongness. :)

But you seem to be able to judge the rightness or wrongess of making a useful error on the basis of their expertise. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: ramset on January 05, 2015, 10:47:21 PM
In this case the MIT  "data" is a collation Of 167 Peer reviewed papers specific to the study of  individuals that have been forever "modified"  by some  environmental  "effect"  which has apparently altered their DNA or changed them in other ways not easily understood at this point.


To suggest that these investigations are irrelevant or with out merit or substance is almost beyond belief.


Looney toons to say the least...


I will only post additional Research Data here ,there is no point in your silly "points" its just to argue .
This topic and this Research are not about arguing ,nor are either of you qualified to post an "original" sentence worthy of contribution to this research.


unless you Are secretly involved in your own ongoing research if so Please  contribute..
otherwise you contributions have no Merit beyond "gossip"


thx


Chet
 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on January 05, 2015, 10:48:27 PM
Not exactly the way you seem to be using it.  Authorities, that is people are acceptable sources of information about a subject in an argument.  What is usually meant by "appeal to authority" is when a person cited is not an expert, misinterpreted or is asserting a non-consensus view (which is the case here but it seems more clear to simply say "they are not an expert and they are asserting a non-consensus view")
An expert saying something to you IS actual data.  It's just data where it's hard to quantify the error.  Didn't you say something roughly like: People absolutely MUST pay attention to people who meet your particular criteria for scientists (careful, diligent) even if they claim something utterly implausible?  I thought, to you ignoring those people would be hubris of the highest order. :)

Yet here you are saying that it's only their data that matters in terms of judging their rightness or wrongness. :)

But you seem to be able to judge the rightness or wrongess of making a useful error on the basis of their expertise. :)
There are also a number of references to an appeal or argument from authority where recognition in one area is illegitimately used to imply a reliable opinion where the speaker is not a SME.  However, I have good references, like this one that go further and state that argument from authority includes accepting a conclusion merely because it is the view of an SME:

http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Appeal_to_authority.html 

Lots of SMEs make mistakes sooner or later.  When that has happened in civil engineering the consequences have sometimes been disastrous.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 06, 2015, 12:14:11 AM
However, I have good references
Is that an intentional joke? Because accepting a definition of "argument from authority" from a "good reference" is effectively an argument from authority in the particular sense of accepting a conclusion ("an argument from authority is...") from someone simply because they are a SME ("a good reference"). :)
Quote
like this one that go further and state that argument from authority includes accepting a conclusion merely because it is the view of an SME:
It seems to say to accept an authority as infallible is fallacious.  Which is fine but I doubt a) that's really what you were talking about when you were contrasting the authority with data and b) it's probably not what the arguer - sorry I really can't remember the particular nutbars name in this case - had in mind.   In a everyday argument people do not have to assert that they consider some person, source or *gasp* even the sacred DATUM are fallible because we know they all are.  An informal argument isn't to produce a NECESSARY conclusion (necessarily :) ) but a reasonable one.

It would be different someone claimed or was in some kind of context where they were making a FORMAL logical argument.  In which case that sense of "argument from authority" would be a useful criticism.   However even data in that context would fall under the same criticism.   Which puts some pretty heavy limits on what can be discussed in that context.  Which is IMHO kind of the limitation which Wittgenstein was on about.  That said formal reasoning isn't without merit because it's good to show where the gaps are.  Where we have to rely on some person, reference, data...which is sort of where I was going when I was pushing profits for a formal argument back when I was hijacking the quenco thread.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 06, 2015, 12:23:53 AM
collation Of 167 Peer reviewed papers specific to the study of  individuals that have been forever "modified"  by some  environmental  "effect"  which has apparently altered their DNA or changed them in other ways not easily understood at this point.
Well, as we all know you haven't read any of them.  So actually all you have is someone's claim that 167 papers exist.  I'd point out that what we are discussing are vaccines and unless you've described the character poorly.  None of them have to be about vaccines or any ingredient in them. 
Quote
To suggest that these investigations are irrelevant or with out merit or substance is almost beyond belief.

Looney toons to say the least...
So you assert that ANY collection of papers totally 167 in number MUST BE ABSOLUTELY TRUE and RELEVANT TO ANYTHING?  Seems like the answer there would be "no" in both cases.  So you're still kind of stuck having to make a case between these alleged 167 papers and something even remotely like what we are discussing. :)

As I said why not pick out one paper which presents the STRONGEST EVIDENCE AGAINST VACCINES and we can destro....discuss it. :)

Quote
I will only post additional Research Data here ,there is no point in your silly "points" its just to argue .
"Additional" implies that you have already provided research data.  I'll I've seen is a claim by you.

Quote
nor are either of you qualified to post an "original" sentence worthy of contribution to this research.
Wrong.  I am qualified to review papers that use statistical methods.  So go ahead and post some of this research, actual papers and we will see what we will see....idiot.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on January 06, 2015, 12:48:26 AM
@Sark
Quote
No. Computer science, as a discipline generally sits between one of two polls.  Implementation - e.g. knowing how to write code and Algorithms - e.g. knowing how a particular approach scales in memory and time with input size.  This has absolutely nothing to do with "gathering meaningful data" you utterly. ignorant. moron.


Oh my name calling already?,  I have been programming and interfacing,building control systems for computers since the first personal computers were invented. Now let's ask an intelligent question, how do you think they get all the data and filter out data not relevant. Well... they use what's called data mining algorithms to sift through millions of files on the databases for relevant data. As such it seems obvious a computer scientist would know how to find the most relevant meaningful data in the most efficient way versus let's say a biologist who knows very little about computers or data mining.


Uhm which part of this do you not understand because it seems pretty straightforward?.


Quote
Wrong.  I am qualified to review papers that use statistical methods.  So go ahead and post some of this research, actual papers and we will see what we will see....idiot.


You may be but unfortunately we cannot believe a word you say until we see your credentials, lol. As you have implied, until we have proof we will have to assume your just another crack-pot just like the people you have criticized.
Your funny :) .

AC




Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on January 06, 2015, 12:58:48 AM
@Sark

Oh my,  I have been programming and interfacing,building control systems for computers since the first personal computers were invented. Now let's ask an intelligent question, how do you think they get all the data and filter out data not relevant. Well... they use what's called data mining algorithms to sift through millions of files on the databases for relevant data. As such it seems obvious a computer scientist would know how to find the most relevant meaningful data in the most efficient way versus let's say a biologist who knows very little about computers or data mining.


Uhm which part of this do you not understand because it seems pretty straightforward?.



You may be but unfortunately we cannot believe a word you say until we see your credentials, lol.

AC
Computer programs are available that assist in myriad of fields and tasks.  That fact says nothing about the skills of anyone involved in the science or engineering of computer.  The specific mathematic skills that would be relevant to evaluating study reports are skills in probability and statistics. 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 06, 2015, 01:02:38 AM
Or maybe just a crack head on pot ?

Gotta love those straight lines.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on January 06, 2015, 01:07:43 AM
@Mark E

Quote
Computer programs are available that assist in myriad of fields and tasks.  That fact says nothing about the skills of anyone involved in the science or engineering of computer.  The specific mathematic skills that would be relevant to evaluating study reports are skills in probability and statistics.


Now who do you suppose wrote those programs?, Do you guys even know how computers actually work?. Unfortunately it's not like going down to the store to buy a loaf of bread and the software always needs refinement to perform specific tasks in the most efficient manner, now who do you suppose would do this... a biologist?. I'm thinking no.


AC







Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on January 06, 2015, 01:30:32 AM
@Mark E


Now who do you suppose wrote those programs?, Do you guys even know how computers actually work?. Unfortunately it's not like going down to the store to buy a loaf of bread and the software always needs refinement to perform specific tasks in the most efficient manner, now who do you suppose would do this... a biologist?. I'm thinking no.


AC
I know very well that expertise in computer scinece does not equate to expertise in design or use of software for any specific application.  I know full well that many programmers work on software where they have little or no understanding of the theory that underlays the end application.  Even if someone were smart enough to understand all of Knuth's books backwards and forwards, that would not give them any particular expertise in any computer application.  It would equip them to define efficient computer based algorithms to approach a defined task. 

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 06, 2015, 02:48:04 AM
Oh my name calling already?
No, that's my measured opinion of your intellectual abilities.
Quote
I have been programming and interfacing,building control systems for computers since the first personal computers were invented
Then you can thank David Dunning and Justin Kruger for your marvelous insight into other fields. :)
Quote
Now let's ask an intelligent question
I'm pretty sure it's not nearly as intelligent as you think it is.
Quote
how do you think they get all the data and filter out data not relevant.
All the data for what exactly? in what situation?  Most of the time an application filters data based on simple criteria provided by the designer. The number of times someone writes an algorithm to do something like trending is actually, by comparison pretty small.
Quote
they use what's called data mining algorithms to sift through millions of files on the databases for relevant data.
"relevant" is the wrong word.  It's data that matches a pattern or heuristic.  This pattern has been coded or otherwise described to the machine.  For example "Folding@home" looks for molecules which match certain characteristics to label them as drug candidates for specific diseases.
Quote
As such it seems obvious a computer scientist would know how to find the most relevant meaningful data in the most efficient way
The CS person (or more frequently a grad student) codes a program to match a set of criteria.  However the set of criteria is provided by someone who actually knows the subject matter.
Quote
Uhm which part of this do you not understand because it seems pretty straightforward?
That's Dunning and Kruger talking. :)
Quote
You may be but unfortunately we cannot believe a word you say until we see your credentials, lol. As you have implied, until we have proof we will have to assume your just another crack-pot just like the people you have criticized.
There's some irony that you are so bad at this that you didn't realize that I actually took the persons credential at face value.  What I didn't accept is the doofus's (sorry I don't remember the posters name I only recall his stupidity) assertion that someone who has an irrelevant degree, almost no current published work in the field of medicine and zero published work on vaccine harm.  Would have anything useful to say about vaccine harm.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 06, 2015, 02:55:44 AM
Now who do you suppose wrote those programs?,
Often it's a collaborative effort between SME's and some code monkey.  However it's irrelevant to performing data analysis.  For example, many researchers and people like myself use R.  You could hire the greatest CS person in the universe and it would be trivial to give them R and a question about determining if correlation exists between a very complex set of inputs.  That they would be utterly and completely lost at.   Believe it or not, the volumes and volumes of books on statistical analysis are not entirely contained in the mind of most CS grads.  In fact statistics is such a devilish discipline that an awful lot of statisticians aren't that good.
Quote
Do you guys even know how computers actually work?
Only all too well.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on January 06, 2015, 02:58:40 AM
@Sark
Quote
There's some irony that you are so bad at this


There lies the truth I believe as "this" has little to do with facts in my opinion but is a form of psychotic narcissistic behavior where people feel empowered by degrading and belittling others...not unlike racism. So I will leave you to "this" as I simply do not feel compelled to play your silly games. It is quite childish and pointless so I will leave you to it.


AC
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 06, 2015, 03:07:00 AM
There lies the truth I believe as "this" has little to do with facts
You're right, in the sense that you have been asked many, many, many times to provide something resembling facts and all you have come up with is "it's my opinion". :)
Quote
a form of psychotic narcissistic behavior where people feel empowered by degrading and belittling others...not unlike racism.
You mean like thinking that because someone is a CS major they are the best at data analysis? :)

Dude, if I have offended you I sincerely apologize however your inability to disclose and clarify your opinion but constantly consider it superior to every contrary one (many times implying that you have better information) is the tone of someone pretty arrogant.  If you want to have a discussion come off your high horse and support your point or simply say that there's really no reason for what you believe.  That's cool too.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 06, 2015, 04:19:16 AM
Good trolling...except for one or 2 minor details.

All this was done without ever having to disclose his study's, his peer reviewals and other "unvested" droolings, and trying to pass it off of evedence that injecting a witch's brew of chemicals were good for you.

Remember the names they had for native americans while they were about gifting them with blankets contaminated with small pox ?

The victims change, and the game remains the same.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 07, 2015, 04:53:52 AM
New York City is moving forward with its requirement
for flu shots making them mandatory. (http://www.globalresearch.ca/new-york-city-mandates-flu-shots-for-toddlers-even-after-centers-for-disease-control-cdc-admits-they-dont-work/5423201)

The article contains links to information regarding
exemptions (Medical or Religious) which still permits
opting out of the requirement.

The Matrix desires that all within it are 'fully compliant'
with its wishes.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 07, 2015, 06:10:41 AM
The article contains links to
...mostly nonsense written by people who have lower IQ's than the clothes I'm currently wearing.  Don't you think it's interesting that nobody who writes these things seems to know how to compare an annual .5ml flu-shot and the 690580 ml of water you drink per year.

Is it your contention that they know some SEEEEEEECRET MATH or are they just wrong? :)

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on January 07, 2015, 06:30:01 AM
...mostly nonsense written by people who have lower IQ's than the clothes I'm currently wearing.  Don't you think it's interesting that nobody who writes these things seems to know how to compare an annual .5ml flu-shot and the 690580 ml of water you drink per year.

Is it your contention that they know some SEEEEEEECRET MATH or are they just wrong? :)
Wait how does this remarkable thing called arithmetic work:  Concentration of material times material consumed = absolute quantity.  So, eight cups of water is about 1.9 liters per day at a safe limit concentration of 1/25,000 per day compared to 5/10,000 liters in the shot is 19/125 the absolute quantity in the shot, carry the five while sucking from a soda contained in an aluminum can, and burping a fine meal from McDonalds, and find out that the shot is equivalent to the safe limit in drinking water consumed in less than a week.  There must be something wrong with that math.  We better try this again after eating a nice tuna salad for brain food.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 07, 2015, 06:46:32 AM
I think you missed a π somewhere and perhaps forgot to take the octagonal root of ɛ.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on January 07, 2015, 07:08:04 AM
I think you missed a π somewhere and perhaps forgot to take the octagonal root of ɛ.
Well it goes without saying that if we don't exponetiate phi that we will possibly miss the nuances of 2 multiplied by 2, but this is a family oriented audience so racy things like raising things to powers have to be held in check.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on January 07, 2015, 09:56:35 PM
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/08/brain-eating-nanobots-being-put-in-vaccines-says-whistleblower-3006640.html (http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/08/brain-eating-nanobots-being-put-in-vaccines-says-whistleblower-3006640.html)


This is scary.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 07, 2015, 10:06:34 PM
This is scary.
It's kind of awesome really. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 08, 2015, 02:27:05 AM
Wait how does this remarkable thing called arithmetic work:  Concentration of material times material consumed = absolute quantity.  So, eight cups of water is about 1.9 liters per day at a safe limit concentration of 1/25,000 per day compared to 5/10,000 liters in the shot is 19/125 the absolute quantity in the shot, carry the five while sucking from a soda contained in an aluminum can, and burping a fine meal from McDonalds, and find out that the shot is equivalent to the safe limit in drinking water consumed in less than a week.  There must be something wrong with that math.  We better try this again after eating a nice tuna salad for brain food.

Mark:

Do not forget that a small percentage of that water is actually heavy water, which was an important substance used in the creation of the nuclear bomb.  So, the more water one drinks...the more heavy water they consume.

Oh, the horror.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on January 08, 2015, 03:25:27 AM
Mark:

Do not forget that a small percentage of that water is actually heavy water, which was an important substance used in the creation of the nuclear bomb.  So, the more water one drinks...the more heavy water they consume.

Oh, the horror.

Bill
Do I look all rancid and clotted? You look at me, Jack. Eh? Look, eh? And I drink a lot of water, you know. I'm what you might call a water man, Jack - that's what I am. And I can swear to you, my boy, swear to you, that there's nothing wrong with my bodily fluids. Not a thing, Jackie.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 08, 2015, 03:40:24 AM
How do you do this...it's magic. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on January 08, 2015, 03:45:55 AM
How do you do this...it's magic. :)
It's all done through clean living and respecting the property rights of the Coca-Cola Company.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 08, 2015, 04:15:29 AM
Does Tim Conway have an opening readily available in his schedule to direct this cacophony ?

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 08, 2015, 05:27:30 AM
And here, ladeeees and gentlemen...yet another CDC oopsy moment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x47Qk-go4ZE


Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 08, 2015, 08:37:14 AM
Medical Monsters Turn Joy into Horror (http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=109341)

Therein may lie a partial explanation.

For the 'weirdness' of certain folk in today's
U.S.

It is truly unfortunate that 'medicine' in the U.S.
has been touched in a big way by Love of Money.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 08, 2015, 01:27:56 PM
It is truly unfortunate that 'medicine' in the U.S. has been touched in a big way by Love of Money.
...more unfortunate how utterly uncritical you are of your own ideas. :)  I'm not an expert in they way US hospitals are managed (this is an important phrase because you pretty much assume you are the absolute expert in everything you post on) but I do know how Canadian hospitals are managed.  Docs are salaried.  So there is absolutely no benefit to them personally for giving drugs or advising on procedures that are unnecessary.  Yet we use pretty much every intervention listed at close to the same rate.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 09, 2015, 08:58:25 AM
Quote
How exactly?  What success rate would this have?  Cancer is an umbrella term for a number of different diseases which are related by all having various rates of unregulated cell growth.

Let me guess, you DO NOT know that your common male deodorant has micro-aluminum beads. Why you ask? Well, the intent purpose of that is for the aluminum micro pieces is to “plug” the sweat ducts! Lol. Hence, once the ducts are plugged, it will stop the sweat! But they forget that the smell comes from the bacteria and not the sweat!!! this is very simplistic to understand that the “deodorant” (to prevent bad odor) is just trying to plug the sweat ducts and add some nice scent on top of the layer!

Like I said, cancer is only derived by only TWO things! 1) generic 2) influenced.

- smoking will cause cancers
-obesity will cause cancers
-alcohol will cause cancers
-couch potatoes will cause cancers

This is very simple but it cannot be stopped because of the BLINDED mentality of all current main stream mentality....which is GREED!

Is like the QEG, there is an answer to make one but it is stop based on the “secrecy to protect the country”...so none of the QEGs will get out because of that law.

Now as of health, the cure will never come out because human deceases are cash cows.

I 100% am sure that TV commercials cause ADD and other disorders! They play commercials to make you a zombie and implant a psychological memory. Now is like you are speaking with someone and they keep on bothering you and distracting your brain 24/7 = ADD! Oh, "take this pill for your cure sir", says the doctor! = give me money for your never ending cure! lol. (we don't know where it comes from because we only focus on the money...ahem, i mean the cure)

The cancers can be stopped all the way down to the GENETIC ones only. Theres no need to understand how cancers work, it's only a matter of knowing what causes them.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 09, 2015, 09:23:11 AM
Quote
This is scary.

That has being going on for a long time = generic. They try to distract you from all of that with Hollywood and their movies while they are doing their dirty work in the background!

Do you not see how the media abuses humans minds and bodies, for example the show “naked and afraid” where we know 100% no one will face that danger since 50% of the trees and animals are gone since the year 2000 but yet they BRAINWASH people to go to the show as to prove that they are worth something!

They try to distract you via the human body urge of the opposite  (seeing them naked) and the “evolutionary” way of life = survival!

If you want the COLD HARD TRUTH, we are in a world wide extinction as we speak...in a few more years 90% of all trees and non-human animals will go extinct that NASA only will try to seek another world to escape to. Money cannot be going on 90% of the time since we where never “evolved” due to money/GREED!

This is a pathetic way of those NERDS and INTELLIGENT people trying to control the population. But a lot of people are already too blinded to see this, so your brainwashed brain only want to focus on the next video game/movie/comedy show....instead of trying to fight to fix this sick mentality that it shows obviously they can't do anything about it = 50% of all animals are gone since the year 2000 and that animal numbers will continue to decline...call me joeltradamus! Oh, wait, i'm just going to sit in my couch and say "for shame" and then change the channel! lol I mean what else can we do if we know the answer? Besides debating with people on forums?


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 09, 2015, 02:57:34 PM
Like I said, cancer is only derived by only TWO things! 1) generic 2) influenced.
You said it was the immune system.  So perhaps you can say why you think this instead of just talking about everything but that? :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 09, 2015, 02:58:48 PM
channel! lol I mean what else can we do if we know the answer?
Decide that maybe you don't and see where that gets you. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 09, 2015, 04:09:05 PM


Let me guess, you DO NOT know that your common male deodorant has micro-aluminum beads. Why you ask? Well, the intent purpose of that is for the aluminum micro pieces is to “plug” the sweat ducts! Lol. Hence, once the ducts are plugged, it will stop the sweat! But they forget that the smell comes from the bacteria and not the sweat!!! this is very simplistic to understand that the “deodorant” (to prevent bad odor) is just trying to plug the sweat ducts and add some nice scent on top of the layer!


Totally incorrect.

You have just demonstrated that you do not know the difference between an antiperspirant and a deodorant.  Two totally different things.
Two totally different feature/benefits.

If you are confused about something as simple as this, it makes one wonder what else you are confused about when you post about complex things.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 09, 2015, 10:18:28 PM
A short, (9 min. 38 sec.)very informative video about flu
vaccinations and more. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvXIqUyOdK4#t=186)

And, an informative article about
The Problem with Western Medicine. (http://www.thedailybell.com/news-analysis/35984/In-the-Race-to-Medicalize-Cannabis-Big-Pharma-Stumbles/?uuid=6F808B25-5056-9627-3C1C0B7DA4C0C1D3)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 10, 2015, 03:15:36 AM
A short, (3 min.)very informative video about SeaMonkey. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YKbYLb5GVc&t=4m6s)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 10, 2015, 03:29:13 AM
I wonder if it means that I have a highly developed sense of nonsensical trivia if I have no interest in clicking that link ?

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 10, 2015, 03:34:25 AM
And, an informative article about
More like a meandering and poorly constructed article. One particularly amusing quote:

"Anyway, this is Western medicine's big flaw. Call it the "chemicalization" of medicine. The natural products on which most Western medicine is built may have various effects as well, but surely chemical effects are more unpredictable and noxious."

The problems with that statement are pretty obvious:
i) Unless you are using some pretty idiosyncratic definition of "natural product" you are saying something misleading.  The number of true natural products which are also useful medicine are few.
ii) Those which are derived from natural products often have low to no effect.  i.e. You could try to use willow bark as an anti-pyretic but you would likely not be successful and even evidence for it's use from the 1800's were done using a refined form. The closest example I can think of is Quinine but even that needs to be distilled in some way.
iii) Those which are useful in their natural form have no control over the dosage or toxicity in their natural form.

So what would happen is this.  Suppose you had cancer and you wanted to take Toxol from Yew Bark.  You would...

a) Most likely end up having no effect because the dose you are taking is way to small to have a useful effect.
b) If you did somehow take a clinical dose by eating bark.  You would end up engaged in mass deforestation and...
c) Probably end up dying from one of the thousands of other chemicals in the bark.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 10, 2015, 03:52:38 AM
Cherry picking = commonly used method to avoid acknowledging relevant evidence...usually in cover-ups of one kind or another.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 10, 2015, 04:51:31 AM
A short, (3 min.)very informative video about SeaMonkey. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YKbYLb5GVc&t=4m6s)

Well, what can I say Sark-Eizen?  ;D

You try and you try but always seem to miss
the mark. ;)

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 10, 2015, 06:17:00 AM
Quote
You said it was the immune system.  So perhaps you can say why you think this instead of just talking about everything but that?

well YES the immune system is what causes an unbalance hence cancer. Pretend a human immunity cells always try to defend the body against a foreign object! And this is kind of beautiful in its own way because it shows that human cells think for themselves! As if the human cells are not controlled by the human body but they are acting upon themselves to heal the animal alone with out the human brain telling them what to do! For example, the human body gets a cut, and you can be watching a movie thinking about boobs while the cells are busy repairing your pathetic stinky body lol (I talk drama lol)

So in an obese person, the human cells get confused because obesity is not evolution! Since human cells know evolution is the TRUTH...so in an obese person the human cells get confused and try to protect the human body from obesity as a way of telling the fat person “hey you are fat and your life expectancy will be lower” so please eat less. Once the person does not slim down to make the cells happy and not confused, they start to become “obese” themselves. IOW, they start to get confused and may even attack healthy cells because they are so confused but they mean well= immune system.

The reason I say that cancer relates to the immune system is because the “cancerous” cells are only trying to protect the body. BUT, the cells can do so much if the animal brain cannot understand how life works. So the cells will attack it's own body if they get confused (obesity, smoking, alcohol, etc) = cancer.

What I mean by generic is you being born with your moms/dads nose. What I mean about influenced is you making your human IMMUNE system confused to the point your cells attack your own body because they are out of balance!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 10, 2015, 06:48:39 AM
Quote
Decide that maybe you don't and see where that gets you.

Well I see all of this stuff in my little head! To the point that I wish I was in the realm of “ignorance is bliss”. Then I try to tell the “ignorant” that being ignorant is not bliss but is being a slave. But then all I get is “your are wrong based on TV” lol

Let me ask you this “wise one”, how do you influence people for their benefit? You don't want their money, you don't want his wife, you don't want anything from that obese person but just tell the obese person, by being obese you are shaving 20 years of your life for sure.

It is the same with EARTH, I don't want money, I don't want female virgins, I just see the next GREAT EXTICNTION coming soon! The human population will implode and a new civilization will grow as has been shown in the history of time space! SO, i'm here sitting in the present looking at the future where my hands are tied...and I find it hard to convince others. Mark my words, WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NEXT WORLD WIDE EXTICTION. Now I need to go play my PS4 from this facts.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 10, 2015, 07:00:39 AM
Quote
You have just demonstrated that you do not know the difference between an antiperspirant and a deodorant.  Two totally different things.
Two totally different feature/benefits.

lol I knew you where going to say that! Which I truly believe that you only speak about stuff right after you google them. Lol.

How do I know that? You ignored the rest of my main points! Even if I give you the crown of you “correcting” me still you only focus on one angle alone!

I am still right that antiperspirant uses micro aluminum beads to plug the sweat ducts while using some type of oily layer with a nice pleasant scent to the nose. A deodorant is still nice pleasant way odor over the bad smelling bacteria in your arm pits.

We would not need any deodorant if you washed your armpits in the first place!

Quote
If you are confused about something as simple as this, it makes one wonder what else you are confused about when you post about complex things.

Well JB weld your armpits together bro! Lol = case closed!

You are not brain capacity challenge bro!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 10, 2015, 07:40:24 AM
lol I knew you where going to say that! Which I truly believe that you only speak about stuff right after you google them. Lol.

How do I know that? You ignored the rest of my main points! Even if I give you the crown of you “correcting” me still you only focus on one angle alone!

I am still right that antiperspirant uses micro aluminum beads to plug the sweat ducts while using some type of oily layer with a nice pleasant scent to the nose. A deodorant is still nice pleasant way odor over the bad smelling bacteria in your arm pits.

We would not need any deodorant if you washed your armpits in the first place!

Well JB weld your armpits together bro! Lol = case closed!

You are not brain capacity challenge bro!

Exactly why I only use deodorant....once I learned this difference in college in the 70's.  Sorry, no Google back then.  JB Weld is great, you might learn how to use it one day.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 10, 2015, 08:02:13 AM
Quote
Exactly why I only use deodorant....once I learned this difference in college in the 70's.  Sorry, no Google back then.  JB Weld is great, you might learn how to use it one day.

Well I don't use a deodorant nor antiperspirant cause I wash my armpits. Since the 70's you have not washed your armpits properly bro? Lol

I know about JB weld very clearly, and I tell you, JB welding a fan motors blade will eventually fail....it is wayyyyyyyyyyyy better to drill a hole and use a screw and nut to keep them together, other than that, use a welder to weld the two! But JB weld is the bottom feeder.

How old are you bill? Much respect for the elder.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 10, 2015, 08:16:27 AM
Well I don't use a deodorant nor antiperspirant cause I wash my armpits. Since the 70's you have not washed your armpits properly bro? Lol

I know about JB weld very clearly, and I tell you, JB welding a fan motors blade will eventually fail....it is wayyyyyyyyyyyy better to drill a hole and use a screw and nut to keep them together, other than that, use a welder to weld the two! But JB weld is the bottom feeder.

How old are you bill? Much respect for the elder.

Well...that fan was repaired without removing the motor...which was the point.  This woman had called a "certified" repairman, and he told her that he had to drill out the rivets holding the motor to the frame, and then replace the motor.  His estimate?  $250.00.  I repaired it for her for less than $1.  I did not have to remove the motor.  This was over 4 years ago and, last time I saw her, she thanked me again and said everything was working just fine.

So, I am not sure what your point is?  There was a problem, I fixed it...it is still fixed.  JB Weld will eventually fail?  Well, the spot weld from the factory eventually failed after only 6 months.  Your point is?

Yes, I shower daily but, if you do not use a deodorant, then I am glad you are wherever you are and not here.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 10, 2015, 08:34:11 AM
Quote
Well...that fan was repaired without removing the motor...which was the point.  This woman had called a "certified" repairman, and he told her that he had to drill out the rivets holding the motor to the frame, and then replace the motor.  His estimate?  $250.00.  I repaired it for her for less than $1.  I did not have to remove the motor.  This was over 4 years ago and, last time I saw her, she thanked me again and said everything was working just fine.

Yes but I 100% here can tell you that JB weld is not as strong as induction welding, plasma welding, or bolts holding it together.

I can appreciate you fixing her dishwasher with JB wled, but that does not mean you understand how the whole dishwasher works. In fact, the engineers whom designed it know this and her dishwasher crapping is just a matter of assembly line error, nothing else nothing more. The mere fact that your “fixed” the fan to the motor is no big deal. You should not be proud of since that fan was made to cool the motor windings! IOW, the motor needs air circulation over it to cool it down or else it will over heat and the windings will short out! But you don't think about WHY dishwashers fail even if their FAN BLADES are in tact in the motor shaft do you? NO! You only based fixing dishwasher based on your JB weld Fixing! Only.


Quote
So, I am not sure what your point is?  There was a problem, I fixed it...it is still fixed.  JB Weld will eventually fail?  Well, the spot weld from the factory eventually failed after only 6 months.  Your point is?

My point is that you understand why the fan is there in the first place right? And if the fan is not there, then the motor dies? It is like the heart of a human! Jb welding for four years is not the same as living for 100 years.

Why are you so proud of fixing this motor blade with JB weld? It is not as strong as actual metal to metal welding and this has been shown by those dorks of “myth busters”...case closed!

Quote
Yes, I shower daily but, if you do not use a deodorant, then I am glad you are wherever you are and not here.

lol, Why do you use a deodorant if you wash the bacteria away from the armpits daily?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 10, 2015, 08:44:07 AM


Why are you so proud of fixing this motor blade with JB weld? It is not as strong as actual metal to metal welding and this has been shown by those dorks of “myth busters”...case closed!



Myth busters are idiots, and if you do not know this than you are ignorant.

Quote

lol, Why do you use a deodorant if you wash the bacteria away from the armpits daily?


So I do not smell like you.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 10, 2015, 08:56:30 AM
Quote
Myth busters are idiots, and if you do not know this than you are ignorant.

Well you just ignored everything I said before I mentioned the “myth busters”...I have nothing to say to that that I find them stupid!

Still, I don't see the MAIN point you are trying to make!

Tell me why armpits stink and need deodorant? Yar yara yaray!

Quote
So I do not smell like you.

LOL, all armpit bacteria smells the same. You telling me that you use a “deodorant” to cover the smell only implies you are covering the gases the bacteria emit. I tell you that I don't use a deodorant because I kill armpit bacteria and you tell me that you are glad that I kill armpit bacteria while you just use a deodorant to cover yours, priceless. I seriously don't find any brain power in your brain bro.

Use deodorant to cover the bacteria smell while I don't use any because I don't allow the bacteria to live there! OK! Call me stupid!  ::)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 10, 2015, 02:49:58 PM
I seriously don't find any brain power in your brain bro.

Use deodorant to cover the bacteria smell while I don't use any because I don't allow the bacteria to live there! OK! Call me stupid!  ::)


In defense of the pirate joel, he has shown himself to be quite google smart on many occasions.

Also, he was probably busy kissing some arse, and may have been schlightly distracted when he posted.

Regards...


 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 11, 2015, 12:31:33 AM
You try and you try
Anytime you want to step into the ring...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 11, 2015, 12:35:37 AM
So the cells will attack it's own body if they get confused (obesity, smoking, alcohol, etc) = cancer.
Uh...in a word..."no".  How do we know you're wrong?  Well there's already an unrelated series of diseases where an immune response acts against ones own tissues.  These are called auto-immune disorders.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 11, 2015, 12:38:36 AM
And if you wish to be ignored once you get in the "ring", just ask him to produce real evidence that vaccines are effective...never mind safe.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 11, 2015, 12:39:31 AM
Well I see all of this stuff in my little head! To the point that I wish I was in the realm of “ignorance is bliss”.
...and never once do you question even slightly if you are right.  Your so-called angst over informing people that they are wrong seems to be more about YOU than about other people.   There's some actual food-for-thought. eh?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 11, 2015, 12:43:41 AM
Where is the royal arse kisser ?

The "king" requires his royal arse kisser.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 11, 2015, 01:08:37 AM
We would not need any deodorant if you washed your armpits in the first place!
Actually it's more complex...

Everyone has bacteria on their skin and everyone has sweat glands.  The smell comes from the bacteria consuming lipids from apocrine sweat glands.  Some people produce more of these substances than others (the AA allele of ABCC11 for example often means you will rarely if ever have body odour).

Now your skin is actually slightly hostile to this bacteria due to it's natural Ph (somewhere between 4 and 6).  When you wash your skin you bring your skin Ph closer to 8 and if you wash with soap (which is often alkaline) this increases your Ph even more.  So washing, while it will reduce some of the bacteria and a lot of the lipids it will also promote bacteria growth.

At some point your body has enough bacteria and is producing enough lipids from the apocrine glands that you will smell.  For some people this can simply be washing, others would have to wash many times a day with soap.  For these people anti-perspirant is a perfectly reasonable option.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on January 11, 2015, 01:40:28 AM
Actually it's more complex...

Everyone has bacteria on their skin and everyone has sweat glands.  The smell comes from the bacteria consuming lipids from apocrine sweat glands.  Some people produce more of these substances than others (the AA allele of ABCC11 for example often means you will rarely if ever have body odour).

Now your skin is actually slightly hostile to this bacteria due to it's natural Ph (somewhere between 4 and 6).  When you wash your skin you bring your skin Ph closer to 8 and if you wash with soap (which is often alkaline) this increases your Ph even more.  So washing, while it will reduce some of the bacteria and a lot of the lipids it will also promote bacteria growth.

At some point your body has enough bacteria and is producing enough lipids from the apocrine glands that you will smell.  For some people this can simply be washing, others would have to wash many times a day with soap.  For these people anti-perspirant is a perfectly reasonable option.
The new Muriatic Acid Wash from NoReg Industries Hoboken NJ gently removes bacteria and softens your skin at the same time.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 11, 2015, 01:52:40 AM
Quote from: Sark-Eizen
Actually it's more complex...
...
At some point your body has enough bacteria and is producing enough lipids from the apocrine glands that you will smell.  For some people this can simply be washing, others would have to wash many times a day with soap.  For these people anti-perspirant is a perfectly reasonable option.

Anti-perspirants and deodorants are
resorted to by those who are unaware
of the simple, inexpensive solution.

Sodium Bicarbonate solution in the
armpits and other sweat prone regions
of the body will keep them 'clean' and
healthy and smelling good.

The 'old ways' are often the best.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 11, 2015, 01:57:37 AM

How old are you bill? Much respect for the elder.



I am 56, although this winter is about to kill me.  (I work outside all day long)  It was -8 here on Wed. and I almost froze to death.  I have good gear which is why I survived.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 11, 2015, 03:03:43 AM
Sodium Bicarbonate solution in the armpits and other sweat prone regions of the body will keep them 'clean' and
healthy and smelling good.
Water is going to sluice off bacteria and lipids.  So if you have relatively easy to control odor and you wash yourself. You can add any nonsense remedy you want and chalk it up to success.   Which I suspect is a big part of your life - assuming you're not just a troll.

If your "solution" is more of a paste and contains a lot of NaHCO3 you will likely end up irritating the skin.   Why?  Same reason that it becomes biotoxic.  It raised the pH.
Quote
The 'old ways' are often the best.
See this is a perfect example of how much you aren't really someone who thinks about what's true.  If you did, you would realize that such a statement would require knowledge of a representative sample of "old ways" and a representative sample of "new ways".  Which you likely don't (putting aside that the terms themselves are pretty poorly defined).
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 11, 2015, 04:48:16 AM
Quote
Uh...in a word..."no".  How do we know you're wrong?  Well there's already an unrelated series of diseases where an immune response acts against ones own tissues.  These are called auto-immune disorders.

All I mean is 100% FACTS that smoking, alcohol, obesity will cause cancers. This is facts right? That is all I mean by my statements! If I want to duel DEEPER in how that works, I would learn how body cells work and how the human immunity work. I know for a fact that human cells are encoded in their brain what to do! (like I said, repairing a cut in an animal)

So you cannot disagree with me that smoking, alcohol, and obesity do not cause cancers. That is what I call “influenced” and the GENETIC part is another thing.

Tell me how or why a cancer happens in an alcoholic person?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 11, 2015, 05:00:51 AM
Quote
...and never once do you question even slightly if you are right.  Your so-called angst over informing people that they are wrong seems to be more about YOU than about other people.   There's some actual food-for-thought. eh?

I question myself all of the time. Me and my brain have a hate and love relationship lol.

I know for a FACT that obesity will reduce your life expectancy by as much as 30 years and when I even think in the wild an obese person is easy picking for the hunters and very delicious.

To stay on point, I don't see where i'm wrong when I say that obesity, alcoholism, smoking, does not cause cancers! This i'm sure the people whom are obese, are smoking, and are drinking deep down know this. But their “addicted” part of their brain is more powerful than the “retional” part of their brain...and we can keep on digging deeper and deeper but over the top layer, we can see where that is headed = cancers. And this is only based on “influencing” cancers but there is also genetic cancers.

A skinny person will suffer lest body wise than an obese person 100% facts. And here I go into the real of GREED, well an obese person will buy more mcdonals than a skinny person. And i'm pretty sure they ad some scientific ingredients in there by the paid scientists to hit on that craving gene in all of us so we can keep on buying! But then i'll be going really deep in to the corruption of society!

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 11, 2015, 05:16:26 AM
Quote
Everyone has bacteria on their skin and everyone has sweat glands.  The smell comes from the bacteria consuming lipids from apocrine sweat glands.  Some people produce more of these substances than others (the AA allele of ABCC11 for example often means you will rarely if ever have body odour).

Still, every time you take a bath, you are washing away the body bacteria. Same as when you brush your teeth! No matter what you say, all animals shower to get rid of aliens on their skin/feathers.

Quote
Now your skin is actually slightly hostile to this bacteria due to it's natural Ph (somewhere between 4 and 6).  When you wash your skin you bring your skin Ph closer to 8 and if you wash with soap (which is often alkaline) this increases your Ph even more.  So washing, while it will reduce some of the bacteria and a lot of the lipids it will also promote bacteria growth.

The point is that bacteria will always live in your body, i'm sure I have 3 billion of them right now all over my body. And my body immune system sees them while I can't with my eyes. But I am 100% sure that taking a shower will take one million of the bacteria down the drain off my body.

I even thought about washing your hands. We wash our hands before we eat to WASH away the bacteria that want to get inside our body. And some of them do get through...(we also have air borne ones but thats another story for another day). I made a conclusion that most of the bacteria that enters our body even after washing our hands that come from our hands is via the thumb, since the thumb is not close to the other four fingers, it stays the dirtiest. I thought about that that i'm 100% the thumb stays the dirtiest when people wash their hands. At any rate! I bet $100 US dollars that the thumb has more bacteria than the rest of the fingers!!!!

Quote
At some point your body has enough bacteria and is producing enough lipids from the apocrine glands that you will smell.  For some people this can simply be washing, others would have to wash many times a day with soap.  For these people anti-perspirant is a perfectly reasonable option.

Well sweating is the HVAC cooling system of the body! If you plug the sweat glands with aluminum, i'm sure you are causing another imbalance.

The micro world is more complicated than the things that your see with the naked eye. I'm not even going to pretend that I know the microbial world but i'm 100% sure that obesity is a cash cow and will lower your life expectancy.

I just can't grasp why antiperspirant is needed at all?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 11, 2015, 06:10:44 AM
All I mean is 100% FACTS that smoking, alcohol, obesity will cause cancers. This is facts right?
Depends one what you mean.  Various factors increase the lifetime risk of specific cancers.

You still haven't mentioned what this has to do with the immune system attacking your own tissue.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 11, 2015, 06:16:37 AM
I question myself all of the time.
Not enough to have any discernible doubt about your beliefs.
Quote
I know for a FACT that obesity will reduce your life expectancy by as much as 30 years
What makes you think that?
Quote
I don't see where i'm wrong
How can you say that you question yourself but you can't see where you would be wrong.  This is enormous evidence that you don't question yourself.   If you did, you would know what would have to be true in order for you to be right...and by virtue of that you would know how you could be wrong.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 11, 2015, 06:31:56 AM
I just can't grasp
...and yet you claim to question yourself.
Quote
why antiperspirant is needed at all?
Seriously? it is entirely beyond your comprehension that some people would:

a) Highly value not smelling bad
b) Would consider it impossible or considerably inconvenient to shower more than once in the morning and once at night
c) Would produce sufficient lipids and have sufficient bacteria to consume them to end up smelling bad.

If you can't grasp those things then I wish you all the best as you enter the 4th grade.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 11, 2015, 06:52:52 AM
Quote
Depends one what you mean.  Various factors increase the lifetime risk of specific cancers.

OK tell me how ALL cancers are born?

Quote
You still haven't mentioned what this has to do with the immune system attacking your own tissue.

I already mentioned that there are two ways to get cancer A) genetic B) influenced. Obesity is “”influenced” way of getting cancers and lots of other disorders like DIABETES! For example.

The human immunity cannot defend against obesity if the human keeps on eating none-stop = obesity. And the stomach or other organ are at higher risk to get cancers than a skinny persons stomach! Plain and simple!

The immune system starts to attack it's own body when there is an unbalance in the body like obesity or alcoholism....  the immune system then start to attack it's own tissue and then there is an over growth of inflammation and tumors and our own cells attacking the body from these foreign obesity cells that should not be there in the first place.

In fact, I believe it's a way of “evolution”. There is a genetic code that teaches us to live longer and if we don't listen, out own body goes on self destruction! Cancers, tumors, STDs, you name it!


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 11, 2015, 06:59:21 AM
Quote
What makes you think that?

this is very simple looking at both the civilized world and in the animalistic world.

In the civilized world we understand that obesity will cause diabetics and a lot of other ailments.

In the animalistic world, we can gather that a fat cheetah will not be able to run at it's full speed to be able to hunt and provide for it's young. So there it is, there are no obese cheetahs that will live their full expected life expectancy.

So we can conclude that being obese is both harmful in the civilized world and in the animalistic world and that 100% being obese is only a way to make money for the “big boys” a.k.a., fast generic food buying. Plain and simple!

Show me an obese animal in the wild that lives longer than it's counterparts?  8)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 11, 2015, 07:21:05 AM
OK tell me how ALL cancers are born?
It's a question without a useful answer because were pretty sure that cancers - neoplasms - happen for a variety of reasons.  Some have a viral precursor, some ionizing radiation, etc...
Quote
the immune system then start to attack it's own tissue and then there is an over growth of inflammation and tumors
Nope.  Inflammation comes from vascular tissue.  Neoplasms come from unregulated cell division.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 11, 2015, 07:25:35 AM
Quote
Seriously? it is entirely beyond your comprehension that some people would:

a) Highly value not smelling bad
b) Would consider it impossible or considerably inconvenient to shower more than once in the morning and once at night
c) Would produce sufficient lipids and have sufficient bacteria to consume them to end up smelling bad.

If you can't grasp those things then I wish you all the best as you enter the 4th grade.

Huh! Nobody likes to smell bad.

Huh! Well we all shower....I took a shower today and dlushed many stinky bacteria down the drain today....as I will tomorrow because vacteria reproduce very fast..lol

Huh! Well LIPIDS are cheese burgers to obesity bacteria lol you continue to mention “lipids” lets kills all lipids?

OK, what are LIPIDS since you seem to be talking about them all over the place?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 11, 2015, 07:28:25 AM
In the civilized world we understand that obesity will cause diabetics and a lot of other ailments.
No.  Obesity can be defined as having a BMI anywhere from 27 or more (depending on where you live).  Obesity is CORRELATED with various ailments.  That's not the same as CAUSING ailments.

For example there are olympic athletes who have a BMI > 27.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 11, 2015, 07:33:12 AM
OK, what are LIPIDS since you seem to be talking about them all over the place?
Fats.  For someone who claims to have spent an enormous amount of time challenging his own ideas.  You never seemed to bother to crack a book in the process.

Again you say it is utterly beyond your comprehension why someone would consider it necessary to use antiperspirant

Since you agree that there exist people who don't like to smell bad, people who have no opportunity to shower during the day.  Is what you are stuck on the idea that various people have different amounts of bacteria and different amounts of lipids (and other body odor precursors)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 11, 2015, 07:39:45 AM
Quote
It's a question without a useful answer because were pretty sure that cancers - neoplasms - happen for a variety of reasons.  Some have a viral precursor, some ionizing radiation, etc...

Are you escape goating? So you have zero CLUE where cancers come from?

Quote
Nope.  Inflammation comes from vascular tissue.  Neoplasms come from unregulated cell division.

What is “vascular tissue”?

What is “Neoplasms”?

What are “regulated” cells?

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 11, 2015, 07:52:25 AM
Quote
No.  Obesity can be defined as having a BMI anywhere from 27 or more (depending on where you live).  Obesity is CORRELATED with various ailments.  That's not the same as CAUSING ailments.

For example there are olympic athletes who have a BMI > 27.

Contradiction much?

What are you talking about this BMI > 27 and stuff?
A fat obese person is fat just by looking at one! Like over 50% of the USA population!
What do you mean?

Oh, let me ask, How much do you weigh in USA lbs? lol (please say the truth)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 11, 2015, 07:50:39 PM
So you have zero CLUE where cancers come from?
Depends on what you mean.  Some cancers we don't have a very good idea where they come from.  Some we do.  H
Quote
What is “vascular tissue”?
Tissue made up of several different cell types that allows for the transportation of blood.
Quote
What is “Neoplasms”?
New tissue growth - particularly in the form of a tumor but some cancers don't grow that way. 
Quote
What are “regulated” cells?
Cells where most of their time is spent resting that is, not engaged in cell division.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 11, 2015, 07:54:41 PM
What are you talking about this BMI > 27 and stuff?
That is the clinical definition of obesity.  If you have another definition you need to supply it.  More evidence that you have spend very little time questioning yourself.
Quote
A fat obese person is fat just by looking at one! Like over 50% of the USA population!
The reason researchers say that X% of a population is obese is because their BMI is > some agreed upon number.  They don't just "look" at people. :)
Quote
Oh, let me ask, How much do you weigh in USA lbs? lol (please say the truth)
185
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 11, 2015, 09:51:19 PM
How come Crap-Z-ro gave up posting over here?

Maybe he is but, I have him on ignore so........

What a great feature.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 11, 2015, 10:57:46 PM
Should we take a census to determine how many members the arse kisser has fooled into thinking that he really has me on "ignore" ?

I highly doubt that a gossipbag old woman like him wood be able to stand the suspense.

I've often wondered whether he goes around with a dildo up his back passage, or can only afford a butt plug...maybe we should take a 'pole' on that too ?

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 12, 2015, 01:49:54 AM
And if you wish to be ignored once you get in the "ring", just ask him to produce real evidence that vaccines are effective...never mind safe.
If you think you've been treated unfairly I'll give you another chance.  Please clearly state your argument and be prepared to clearly and directly respond to questions concerning it.

I currently have you on ignore.  I see that you post but I have to click on a link to see what you post. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 12, 2015, 02:18:31 AM
Quote from: Sark-Eizen
...
If your "solution" is more of a paste and contains a lot of NaHCO3 you will likely end up irritating the skin.   Why?  Same reason that it becomes biotoxic.  It raised the pH.See this is a perfect example of how much you aren't really someone who thinks about what's true.  If you did, you would realize that such a statement would require knowledge of a representative sample of "old ways" and a representative sample of "new ways".  Which you likely don't (putting aside that the terms themselves are pretty poorly defined).

Your suppositions are the voice of inexperience.
The solution need not be strong and can be
applied with a moistened cotton ball.

The Baking Soda solution to the problem goes
back over 100 years.  Even today certain underarm
preparations still contain Sodium Bicarbonate in
addition to their other 'Money' ingredients.

It is proven effective.  Of course it is so ridiculously
inexpensive and readily available that the 'Love of
Money' oriented corporate interests would rather
people used their costly products instead.

Knowledge is freedom from 'consumer' mentality.

For those who dare learn TRUTH.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 12, 2015, 02:47:15 AM
The solution need not be strong and can be applied with a moistened cotton ball.
So what mechanism do you imagine is at work here?  You are not plugging the pores and there's absolutely no way that a solution as incredibly weak as you're describing is having a anti-bacterial effect.  So what then?  Faries? Love? Magic?

You don't know do you?  You have absolutely nothing to offer in this respect. Which is the true voice of inexperience...and ignorance. :)
Quote
Even today certain underarm preparations still contain Sodium Bicarbonate
This is true but it's pretty interesting that you've got the "love of money" relation backward.  While it's possible that there is some clinical effect of sodium bicarbonate at the right dose.  It's far, far, far more likely that this is a company (for example Arm and Hammer) who is attempting to leverage peoples the gullibility of people...like yourself who believe in this folk remedy.  After all if it worked then that's all you would need in the product but if you look closely at A&H's Aluminum free "essentials" Natural deodorant - you'll see it contains triclosan.  An antibacterial agent.  If I was really looking to make money I'd leave that out.  The reason it's there is likely because it doesn't work very well without it. :)

Quote
It is proven effective.
Then please provide a reference to a double-blind placebo-controlled study with an n>200 and I'll be convinced.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 12, 2015, 02:53:59 AM
You can also rub dog crap under your arms to eliminate under arm odor.  This is proven to work, by thousands, possibly millions.  The list of studies that proves this are many in number and too long for me to mention, or link to any here.

Now, they are working on a "cure" for dog crap odor.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 12, 2015, 03:10:20 AM
If you think you've been treated unfairly I'll give you another chance.  Please clearly state your argument and be prepared to clearly and directly respond to questions concerning it.

I currently have you on ignore.  I see that you post but I have to click on a link to see what you post. :)


I've always been a good dot connector...looks like my talents are needed again(wink wink nudge nudge).

His words:  "clearly state your argument"

Let me see if I can at least lead this horsey to water.

Now, if i just try reversing the order of his last post, maybe he'll see it.

Cap's quoted words:

Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on January 11, 2015, 12:38:36 AM (http://overunity.com/15147/vaccinations-recent-developments/msg432194/#msg432194)                                                                                                                                                                                                          " And if you wish to be ignored once you get in the "ring", just ask him to produce real evidence that vaccines are effective...never mind safe. "


Dots connected...fingers crossed.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 12, 2015, 03:43:30 AM
ask him to produce real evidence that vaccines are effective...never mind safe.
Yawn.  Is your argument that there is no evidence that vaccines are effective or safe?

See the point of you actually stating your argument is then I don't have to constantly ask "Do you mean this?"
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: ramset on January 12, 2015, 03:52:19 AM
Yeesh
Sarc you "solicit" agita now??


do you sleep on a bed of nails too...........



Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 12, 2015, 03:55:37 AM
Sarc you "solicit" agita now??
I think you need to go to remedial quotation school.

If Cap-Mo-ron has a valid point I'm willing to hear him out.  He probably doesn't but hey neither do most of the people here. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 12, 2015, 03:57:20 AM
I think you need to go to remedial quotation school.

If Cap-Mo-ron has a valid point I'm willing to hear him out.  He probably doesn't but hey neither do most of the people here. :)




Hey, I resemble that remark.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 12, 2015, 05:15:10 AM
I think you need to go to remedial quotation school.

If Cap-Mo-ron has a valid point I'm willing to hear him out.  He probably doesn't but hey neither do most of the people here. :)

Well, a reader pointed out that in the previous post, he sniffed at the challenge but didn't lift his leg...while in this post its clear he sees the hook in the bait.

Again, he moves on...and his royal arse kisser helps by creating a diversion.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: ramset on January 12, 2015, 10:05:50 AM
_""Sarc_""


To" What" do you "attribute" the "Epidemic" and "increasing" Levels of "Autism" in the "population" """?"""











Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 12, 2015, 10:15:57 AM
Quote
Depends on what you mean.  Some cancers we don't have a very good idea where they come from.  Some we do.  H

OK describe the ones that you know where they come from?

Quote
Tissue made up of several different cell types that allows for the transportation of blood.

What do you mean by this? Explain please!

Quote
New tissue growth - particularly in the form of a tumor but some cancers don't grow that way. 

Again, please describe the cancers that are you familiar with!

Quote
Cells where most of their time is spent resting that is, not engaged in cell division.

Regulated by what? What cells are doing this you speak off?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 12, 2015, 10:30:59 AM
Quote
That is the clinical definition of obesity.  If you have another definition you need to supply it.  More evidence that you have spend very little time questioning yourself.

Well I find it hard to believe that the mere EYESIGHT does not play a role!!! since we learn from looking and learning. So if I see a round body, I'm 100% that person has been doing more eating than another.

Quote
The reason researchers say that X% of a population is obese is because their BMI is > some agreed upon number.  They don't just "look" at people.

Well that's a problem. So you are here telling me that I cannot distiguish between a fat person VS a skinny person with my eye sight? I don't even know what your are trying to imply! As if there is not way to see a fat person with the eye sight and only with your BMI numbers?

Whatever you have to say no matter what! It is 100% true that the USA has more fat people than skinny ones! 100% facts! And this is because fat people spend more money than skinny people! The same reason it is better to keep all stupid because if they are smart, they would not spend as much money!

I would like you to consider what is GREED!

I would like you to consider that 50% of all animals have gone extinct since the year 2000 and those numbers are continuing to decline as we speak!

Now with all of this happening, where do you see the world in 50 more years?

If supposedly your SMART INTELLIGENT brain is for the “greater” good! Why all of this murdering of the “evolution”?

So no matter what you believe you know or what you believe you have figured out, the facts are that this world is dying! We are headed in a new wold wide extinction!

So much cell understanding you preach to know but the end results is all pollution of the world and the body!

It seems like you cannot see the whole picture and only living in your bubble only looking for a cookie to be had.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 12, 2015, 10:44:13 AM
Quote
You can also rub dog crap under your arms to eliminate under arm odor.  This is proven to work, by thousands, possibly millions.  The list of studies that proves this are many in number and too long for me to mention, or link to any here.

Now, they are working on a "cure" for dog crap odor.

Sir, I am younger than you are and I expected more maturity from you! Time and time again you fail to provide any ounce of significant knowledge.

I as a young person could easily poke fun on your old age. (old fart) but I don't do that because that is not the way of life! And I hear you poking fun of others talking about dog crap in the arm pits? Well, looks like you don't seek truth and only here to bully people!

I wish not to be like you when I'm your age sir!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 12, 2015, 01:09:14 PM
OK describe the ones that you know where they come from?
No but for example ionizing radiation can knock out a gene (such as MDM2) which reduces the amount of a protein (such as p53) in cells which has at least three responses to DNA damage.  Any of which could stop the damaged DNA from reproducing.
Quote
What do you mean by this? Explain please!
You need to ask a more specific question.  Do you not understand the terms "tissue", "blood" or how blood is transported through tissue. :)
Quote
Again, please describe the cancers that are you familiar with!
No but since the actual statement was about cancers that don't produce tumors. Leukemia is one, it produces an over-abundance of abnormal white blood cells. 
Quote
Regulated by what? What cells are doing this you speak off?
Cancer is a broad term for diseases where cells divide more than usual.  Do you disagree?  If not, then what do you think tumors are?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 12, 2015, 01:18:33 PM
Well I find it hard to believe that the mere EYESIGHT does not play a role!!!
What you believe is so very unimportant it scarcely matters.  Studies are generally blinded in one way or another.  So the person doing the analysis doesn't get to see anyone. 
Quote
Well that's a problem. So you are here telling me that I cannot distiguish between a fat person VS a skinny person with my eye sight? I don't even know what your are trying to imply!
That your eyesight is sadly not the basis for correlating any diseases in any useful way.   So when you say "obesity causes x" you are very likely just referencing something which used a BMI calculating to establish that correlation.  So that was why I assume you were using BMI to talk about obesity and it's correlation to disease.  However if you have some other made-up definition then please share it. :)

Quote
It is 100% true
But you spend so much time doubting yourself...right?

Quote
100% facts!
Yes i can see you must really examine yourself critically.

Quote
that this world is dying!
See normally I'd say something like "Sure, the 2nd law of thermodynamics says that" but since I'm currently speaking to a resident of crazy-town...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 12, 2015, 01:22:40 PM
Well, a reader pointed out that in the previous post, he sniffed at the challenge but didn't lift his leg...while in this post its clear he sees the hook in the bait.
I've asked you plainly what your argument is.  You made a cryptic response.  I simply asked a clarifying question and you can't give me a clear answer.

Again, you claim that you've "entered the ring" but you won't even produce a clear statement of your argument.  Again, the invitation is open.  Whenever you feel like sitting and the grownup table.  Just let me know.  I will from time to time read your posts even though you're on ignore. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 12, 2015, 01:41:25 PM
To" What" do you "attribute" the "Epidemic" and "increasing" Levels of "Autism" in the "population" """?"""
Do you perhaps mean:
Quote from: someone who knows English better than ramset
To what do you attribute the increasing number of reported cases of autism in the population?
My answer to that would simply be a top two reasons for this observation.  Primarily it would be diagnostic criteria changes.  This seems to be pretty obvious - that when you broaden who gets called autistic you will end up with more people with that label.  There was a study just this month showing this using Danish data.

There is already an established link between maternal (and more recently paternal) age and autism.  Parental age has been on the rise for a while now.

Does that explain all new cases?  Probably not but what it leaves us with is much too low to blame on things like vaccines. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 12, 2015, 03:39:43 PM
You don't have to be psychic to predict that he will not be supplying the non existent evidence that vaccines are effective.

Instead, he much prefers demanding evidence that they are not effective.

He quacks exactly like a paid shill...because he just is.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 12, 2015, 08:17:32 PM
You don't have to be psychic to predict that he will not be supplying the non existent evidence that vaccines are effective.
Is that your argument?  That there is absolutely no evidence for the effectiveness of vaccines?  Again, simple and clear answers gets you in the ring.  I'm sure it's pretty obvious to most people how hard you are trying to stay out. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 12, 2015, 08:31:04 PM
Is that your argument?  That there is absolutely no evidence for the effectiveness of vaccines? 


A reader opined: Surely, if he truly missed the queries, he could be led directly to the oft posed question...again, by simply consulting his royal arse kisser...who has shown an obsession for correcting grammatical mistakes and typo's.

I agree.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 12, 2015, 08:38:39 PM
The ongoing saga of 'vaccinations' and their side
effects (consequences) either un-intended or
otherwise. (http://www.naturalnews.com/048265_chickenpox_mandatory_vaccinations_South_Korea.html)

In this day and age of 'science miracles' as never
before, it is strange indeed that vaccinations have
not been made safe.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 12, 2015, 08:56:36 PM
The Agricultural Chemical Industry and the
practices it advocates has not been good for
the health of people World-wide. (http://www.healthfreedoms.org/top-doctor-exposes-monsanto-as-the-cause-of-a-huge-autism-spike/)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 12, 2015, 09:05:12 PM
In this day and age of 'science miracles' as never before, it is strange indeed that vaccinations have not been made safe.
For any useful definition of the word "safe" they have.

The ring is still there.  Anytime you want to subject your opinions to actual critical thought feel free to step in.  If you want to keep padding your pre-existing notions.  Then by all means, just keep posting links then running away. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 12, 2015, 09:09:30 PM
if he truly missed the queries
Last chance.   Please confirm my assessment of your argument or restate it in a clear and unambiguous way.

Refuse and you lose your argument about getting ignored once you enter the ring.  Since you now have thrice refused to enter. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 12, 2015, 09:23:08 PM
Quote from: Sark-Eizen
For any useful definition of the word "safe" they have.
...

As in 'completely safe for all,' or

100% safe in every respect, or

vaccinations which are incapable of causing
any adverse effect.

In a Sane World 'safe' in the fullest sense would
be attainable.

In our present Crazy World of agenda driven
'Love of Money' manipulations it seems to be
undesirable.

Population Reduction 101
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 12, 2015, 10:09:14 PM
vaccinations which are incapable of causing any adverse effect.
Every natural remedy you've advertised here is capable of causing an adverse effect. :)
Every action you perform from driving a car (if you're old enough) to flipping a light switch is capable of causing an adverse effect. :)

or are light switches and baking soda also part of your delusion of population reduction. :)

So again, it's really very simple.  You need a useful (I even used that word before) definition of safe.  Not a...for lack of a better term...moronic one.  Keep being stupid - it is very entertaining. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 12, 2015, 11:31:02 PM
Last chance.   Please confirm my assessment of your argument or restate it in a clear and unambiguous way.

Refuse and you lose your argument about getting ignored once you enter the ring.  Since you now have thrice refused to enter. :)

We need the royal arse kisser...this cabal horse refuses to drink.

Oh, faithful butt pirate, where art thou ?

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 13, 2015, 02:19:33 AM


I wish not to be like you when I'm your age sir!



I am afraid that you couldn't even if you tried.  It would take years of studying engineering, machining, (Master Machinist) Flying, Music and the arts for you to ever be able to catch up.  You should have started learning when you were younger.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 13, 2015, 03:06:52 AM
Quote from: Sark-Eizen
Every natural remedy you've advertised here is capable of causing an adverse effect. :)
Every action you perform from driving a car (if you're old enough) to flipping a light switch is capable of causing an adverse effect. :)
...

Any 'remedy' if improperly utilized or
negligently enacted may cause an adverse
consequence.

Adverse Effect = Negligence of Some Sort

Odd that you should agree, isn't it?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 13, 2015, 03:16:28 AM
Any 'remedy' if improperly utilized or
negligently enacted may cause an adverse
consequence.

Adverse Effect = Negligence of Some Sort
SeaMonkey post = Poor logic of some sort.

What you are doing is making a directional fallacy (I will of course define this if you are interested in learning but we all kind of know that you're not.  So I won't hold my breath. :) ) Pity they don't teach logic where you live especially since you're so very interested in truth. :)

Just keep on being a moron SM.  It makes me happy. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 13, 2015, 03:49:09 AM

Just keep on being a moron SM.  It makes me happy. :)

Who/what else but a troll would make such a statement.

Case proven

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 13, 2015, 04:27:23 AM
Quote
No but for example ionizing radiation can knock out a gene (such as MDM2) which reduces the amount of a protein (such as p53) in cells which has at least three responses to DNA damage.  Any of which could stop the damaged DNA from reproducing.

I asked you to describe how some cancers are made and you give me this? At any rate, if I gather what you are trying to imply, you seem to be talking about a cure I guess.

But the main question was describe the PROBABILITIES of what causes cancers since we are always talking about probabilities.

Quote
You need to ask a more specific question.  Do you not understand the terms "tissue", "blood" or how blood is transported through tissue.

I know tissue, I know blood, I know veins in the body like veins in a tree leaf! But I do not know further in the realm of this. I'm sure if I took my time I would learn it.

There are two things happening here! You are trying to “understand” the cure while I UNDERSTAND the cause. Two things are happening here. I don't need a PHD to understand the CAUSE! When it comes to INFLUENTIAL, only in the GENTIC being born with is where it is needed!

So when I ask you what you mean “Tissue made up of several different cell types that allows for the transportation of blood.” is just a way of me trying to get to the meat of the bone!

First you need to explain how cancers work! Like I would a dishwasher if I want to repair it!

The you have to understand what is the purpose of cancer. Like I would understand the purpose of a dishwasher!

The you have to understand other things e.g. like how the immune system works or how vaccines work.

You need to give a greater explanation of your answers if you believe you know how cancers work!
I don't know how to “repair” cancer, I just know the PROBABILITIES of how it can be caused.

Quote
No but since the actual statement was about cancers that don't produce tumors. Leukemia is one, it produces an over-abundance of abnormal white blood cells. 

 Yes bone cancers, lung, white blood, red blood, all cancers are an imbalance of the body! I'm asking you me as a non-PHD having understanding how cancers and tumors are PROBABILITIES of human actions and you are supposedly the PHD having that understand how to cure them?

I only asked you to describe the cancers that you are familiar with, nothing else nothing more. And once you describe them, show why you are close to the cure and why you have not found the cure?

Quote
Cancer is a broad term for diseases where cells divide more than usual.  Do you disagree?  If not, then what do you think tumors are?

I already mentioned that tumors are an imbalance growth of cells and is similar to cancer. If you have a guy careing a weight over 100 lbs over his shoulders for years, the tissue becomes damage and this over-repairing of the dead tissue causes a lump.  You can even see how the martial art people use this  to get their fist callous to thicken the skin as to give a greater punch!

That simplistic understanding carries over to cancerous cells = obesity, alcoholism, viruses, pimples, bruises! And I only know this by looking at the history of human body alone. If I want to dig deeper and get a PHD on understanding cancers, then i'm just going there to find a cure. Which i'm guessing you are trying to do that but i'm sure you have no magic pill to cure it since you cannot of you are trying to repair the EFFECT while ignoring the CAUSE!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 13, 2015, 04:47:42 AM
Quote
I am afraid that you couldn't even if you tried.  It would take years of studying engineering, machining, (Master Machinist) Flying, Music and the arts for you to ever be able to catch up.  You should have started learning when you were younger.

Well then we would never have “evolution” or when the student surpasses the teacher. :P

I understand your pride, but your learning will never be STATIC since space time is always ticking! Lol

Is not like you did not learn from others? = “evolution” = CAUSE = AFFECT.

I will never stop learning in my living life and i'm 100% sure you are still learning,,,lol
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 13, 2015, 04:48:41 AM
I asked you to describe how some cancers are made and you give me this? At any rate, if I gather what you are trying to imply, you seem to be talking about a cure I guess.

But the main question was describe the PROBABILITIES of what causes cancers since we are always talking about probabilities.

I know tissue, I know blood, I know veins in the body like veins in a tree leaf! But I do not know further in the realm of this. I'm sure if I took my time I would learn it.

There are two things happening here! You are trying to “understand” the cure while I UNDERSTAND the cause. Two things are happening here. I don't need a PHD to understand the CAUSE! When it comes to INFLUENTIAL, only in the GENTIC being born with is where it is needed!

So when I ask you what you mean “Tissue made up of several different cell types that allows for the transportation of blood.” is just a way of me trying to get to the meat of the bone!

First you need to explain how cancers work! Like I would a dishwasher if I want to repair it!

The you have to understand what is the purpose of cancer. Like I would understand the purpose of a dishwasher!

The you have to understand other things e.g. like how the immune system works or how vaccines work.

You need to give a greater explanation of your answers if you believe you know how cancers work!
I don't know how to “repair” cancer, I just know the PROBABILITIES of how it can be caused.

 Yes bone cancers, lung, white blood, red blood, all cancers are an imbalance of the body! I'm asking you me as a non-PHD having understanding how cancers and tumors are PROBABILITIES of human actions and you are supposedly the PHD having that understand how to cure them?

I only asked you to describe the cancers that you are familiar with, nothing else nothing more. And once you describe them, show why you are close to the cure and why you have not found the cure?

I already mentioned that tumors are an imbalance growth of cells and is similar to cancer. If you have a guy careing a weight over 100 lbs over his shoulders for years, the tissue becomes damage and this over-repairing of the dead tissue causes a lump.  You can even see how the martial art people use this  to get their fist callous to thicken the skin as to give a greater punch!

That simplistic understanding carries over to cancerous cells = obesity, alcoholism, viruses, pimples, bruises! And I only know this by looking at the history of human body alone. If I want to dig deeper and get a PHD on understanding cancers, then i'm just going there to find a cure. Which i'm guessing you are trying to do that but i'm sure you have no magic pill to cure it since you cannot of you are trying to repair the EFFECT while ignoring the CAUSE!

Life causes cancer than, using your "logic".  Have you ever heard of a dead person developing cancer?  No?  Well, there you have it.  You have to be alive to get it so, life must cause it.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 13, 2015, 05:12:58 AM
I asked you to describe how some cancers are made and you give me this?
It is, in fact how some cancers are made.
Quote
At any rate, if I gather what you are trying to imply, you seem to be talking about a cure I guess.
No, I'm talking about how some cancers are made. :)
Quote
But the main question was describe the PROBABILITIES of what causes cancers since we are always talking about probabilities.
No, you asked where they come from.  That's not the same as a "risk factor".  If that's what you mean.
Quote
I know tissue, I know blood,
Then why don't you understand how inflammation is a response from vascular tissue?
Quote
You are trying to “understand” the cure while I UNDERSTAND the cause.
No I'm talking about one potential cause of cancer.  You are just making sentences that mean virtually nothing. :)
Quote
First you need to explain how cancers work!
Such as genes which encode proteins which regulate cell division. :)
Quote
I just know the PROBABILITIES of how it can be caused.
Then what is the probability of the kind of cancer I described: where an MDM2 knockout causes a reduction in  p53 which affects the ability to correct DNA or initiate apoptosis.

Whoops...guess you don't know the probability of that. :)
Quote
Yes bone cancers, lung, white blood, red blood, all cancers are an imbalance of the body!
The problem with your sentence here is it doesn't say anything useful.  Is a reduction p53 a "imbalance"?  In some entirely uninformative way sure.  However it's only because I know three of the functions of p53 that I can say that.
Quote
I'm asking you me as a non-PHD having understanding how cancers and tumors are PROBABILITIES of human actions
You are barely speaking English at a elementary school level.   If I take a wild guess, I would assume you're talking about risk factors.  So in the case of a MDM2 knockout - the risk factor is exposure to ionizing radiation. 
Quote
I only asked you to describe the cancers that you are familiar with
...and I described the mechanism for one type of cancer I'm familiar with.  That's it.  You are just so incredibly ignorant you didn't understand that.
Quote
show why you are close to the cure and why you have not found the cure?
I have not found a cure for cancer, I have never even come close because that is not my job.
Quote
I already mentioned that tumors are an imbalance growth of cells and is similar to cancer.
Are you saying that tumors are NOT cancer?  That something is called a cancer because cells are dividing without the usual limits on them?  Is that what you're saying?

Quote
You can even see how the martial art people use this  to get their fist callous to thicken the skin as to give a greater punch!
When you injure tissue you can end up with scaring.  Scaring is again not the same as a tumor.  Scar tissue looks different under a microscope than a cancer cell and cancer cells tend to look different under a microscope than normal tissue.  For example the Leukemia blasts are smaller than normal white blood cells.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 13, 2015, 05:42:45 AM
Quote
Life causes cancer than, using your "logic".  Have you ever heard of a dead person developing cancer?  No?  Well, there you have it.  You have to be alive to get it so, life must cause it.

Hmmm, I work out, I gain muscle mass. I eat more than expected, I gain weight. I stick my dirty thumb in fire, I get burn. I'm obese, 100% sure I will get a cancer if I was not genetically predisposed to one!

That little statement makes you believe that you know what you are talking about....you are just on attack mode bro! Where your senses are full of adrenaline and fail your logic.
First the dishwasher, then, you believing that I can't never learn what you know, then this = EGO! Egotistic while I'm just trying to find truth! You are responding to replies I was not even replying to you bro! That's not good forum etiquette...lol
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 13, 2015, 06:06:49 AM


That's not good forum etiquette...lol

How the hell would you know?

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 13, 2015, 06:29:19 AM
Quote
It is, in fact how some cancers are made.

Well speak in 5 year old language since I'm 6 years old. I told you that obesity it is how cancers are made too! (which I'm right)

I was more towards you explaining point by point how only ONE cancer is created SCIENTIFICALLY!

I don't understand these numbers you speak off! If I was in your same class, I would, but I never was!

Quote
No, I'm talking about how some cancers are made.

Ok, can you explain again HOW some cancers are made from obese people? Or are you talking about how some are predisposed to get cancer regarding the genetic code?

You are not explaining much!

Quote
No, you asked where they come from.  That's not the same as a "risk factor".  If that's what you mean.

No, lol you seem to always start your sentences with NO towards me. As if you already predicted your future. At any rate, where they come from is not the same as “risk factors”?

I already told you there are only two places where they come from 1) genetic, e.g. being borne with it = predisposed! 2) influenced = obesity, alcoholism, caring 100lbs of weight on your back!

Is not being an obese person a “risk factor” for cancer?

Quote
Then why don't you understand how inflammation is a response from vascular tissue?

I already mentioned that I understand INFLAMATION as the mere example of a guy carying a 100 lb weight on it's back would get an inflamated back = out of balance.

If you mean “vascular tissues” may lead to cancerous cells, then I agree with you. Maybe there is a language barrier here!

Quote
No I'm talking about one potential cause of cancer.  You are just making sentences that mean virtually nothing.

NO! lol, you always seem to respond with NO! Life is all about CAUSE and EFFECT! Learning is CAUSE and EFFECT! Learning is CAUSE and EFFECT! Cancer is CAUSE and AFFECT!

One potential CAUSE of cancer always comes from the “potential” of EFFECT! = Cause AND effect! The CAUSE in the cancer comes from the EFFECT!

Quote
Such as genes which encode proteins which regulate cell division.

Well a human body is a regulated cell division animal! The body is also GEOMETRICAL two arms, two legs, two eyes. The DNA has already been encoded to make a human animal since the sperm! You are being to BROAD if you proclaim to know a lot about this subject!

You are now claming to know the “encode” process and “what regulates” cell division?

Quote
Then what is the probability of the kind of cancer I described: where an MDM2 knockout causes a reduction in  p53 which affects the ability to correct DNA or initiate apoptosis.

Whoops...guess you don't know the probability of that.

Well geeee, let me guess what that maybe, ONLY looking at it from one angle!

Well here you are knowing what all cells in the body are?

You keep mentioning these MDM2 and p53...what do you mean by that? Besides me knowing that you have no cure and maybe just one understanding of one cancerous cell?


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 13, 2015, 06:32:05 AM
While on the subject of Trolls the terms used by
the Chinese (and Taiwanese) to define (describe)
them are brilliantly fascinating:

Quote from: Wiki excerpt 'other languages'
In Chinese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_language), trolling is referred to as bái mù (Chinese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_language): 白目 (http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%99%BD%E7%9B%AE); literally: "white eye"), which can be straightforwardly explained as "eyes without pupils", in the sense that whilst the pupil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pupil) of the eye is used for vision, the white section of the eye cannot see, and trolling involves blindly talking nonsense over the internet, having total disregard to sensitivities or being oblivious to the situation at hand, akin to having eyes without pupils.

 An alternative term is bái làn (Chinese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_language): 白爛; literally: "white rot"), which describes a post completely nonsensical and full of folly made to upset others, and derives from a Taiwanese slang term for the male genitalia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_male_genitalia), where genitalia that is pale white in colour represents that someone is young, and thus foolish.

 Both terms originate from Taiwan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan), and are also used in Hong Kong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong) and mainland China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainland_China). Another term, xiǎo bái (Chinese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_language): 小白; literally: "little white") is a derogatory term that refers to both bái mù and bái làn that is used on anonymous posting internet forums.

 Another common term for a troll used in mainland China is pēn zi (Chinese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_language): 噴子; literally: "sprayer, spurter").


The 'boldings' above seem most applicable to certain
Troll Personalities who are present within this discussion. ;)

Quote from: Wiki article Psychological Characteristics
Two studies published in 2013 and 2014 have found that people who are identified as trolls tend to have dark personality traits (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad) and show signs of sadism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadistic_personality_disorder), antisocial behavior (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_behavior), psychopathy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy), and machiavellianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machiavellianism).[37][38] The 2013 study suggested that there are a number of similarities between anti-social and flame trolling activities[37] and the 2014 study suggested that the noxious personality characteristics known as the "dark triad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad) of personality" should be investigated in the analysis of trolling, and concluded that trolling appears "to be an Internet manifestation of everyday sadism."[38]

Their relevance is suggested by research linking these traits to bullying (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying) in both adolescents and adults. The 2014 study found that trolls operate as agents of chaos on the Internet, exploiting hot-button issues (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politicized_issue) to make users appear overly emotional (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional) or foolish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foolishness) in some manner. If an unfortunate person falls into their trap, trolling intensifies for further, merciless amusement.

This is why novice Internet users are routinely admonished, "Do not feed the trolls!" The 2013 study found that trolls often have a high expectation of what it means to be successful, which is higher than they are able to attain, and this results in them resenting others who think they are successful but who fall below their standards.

Aye, that is about the size of it...

Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 13, 2015, 06:40:35 AM
Quote
How the hell would you know?

I'm sure 99% of the population knows you don't quote responses to others and responds for them! You only respond when you are being spoken too period. You never respond to others when they are talking to someone else. That is life/forum etiquette sir and I thought you knew this based on your 'maturity'.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 13, 2015, 06:54:10 AM
I'm sure 99% of the population knows you don't quote responses to others and responds for them! You only respond when you are being spoken too period. You never respond to others when they are talking to someone else. That is life/forum etiquette sir and I thought you knew this based on your 'maturity'.

Did you just make this up?  This must be in your head...right?

So, you make up a rule and then claim that 99% of everyone on forums knows this?

Total BS.

I have been on forums longer than you have been alive most likely.  Well over 30 years anyway.  100% of the folks I have interacted with never mentioned a rule like this.

Please try again, and this time, maybe be a little more realistic?

So, you come on to a forum and say something about a topic.

Another person responds to you.

You respond back and then you say something stupid (not really a stretch for you) like: "Gravity does not exist."

Under your rule, are you telling me that no other person on that forum can respond to your idiocy because you were not talking to them?

Horse feathers.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 13, 2015, 07:09:51 AM
I was responding to sarkeizen and you decided to respond to me while quoting my responses to sarkeizen! What more proof do you need that you abused forum etiquette?

Now you are trying to tell me that you have a right to respond to others when they are not even talking to you.

I can picture you having a conversation with someone in real person and then someone else cuts you off and speaks for you. Lol

But I guess you have been on the internet for so long that you already forgot what etiquette means?

I'm 100% sure you would not like it if someone else answers for you and this can be proven 100% so I don't really know what you are arguing about unless you have an over inflated head that you seem to believe that you are “untouchable”!

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 13, 2015, 01:09:16 PM
While on the subject of Trolls the terms used by the Chinese (and Taiwanese) to define (describe) them are brilliantly fascinating:
The real interesting part is how all the definitions focus on reaction.  What would be the opposite of just wanting people to react to a post? I'd suggest that discussing a post is the opposite of merely reacting, talking to a person instead of around them or addressing a hypothetical audience.

I wonder who that describes. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 13, 2015, 01:18:50 PM
I was responding to sarkeizen and you decided to respond to me while quoting my responses to sarkeizen! What more proof do you need that you abused forum etiquette?
Actually you will see most people doing that here.  If you open your eyes and look.  Not even counting trolls like SM, Cap-mo-ron who indirectly respond to someone. :)
Quote
I can picture you having a conversation with someone in real person and then someone else cuts you off and speaks for you.
"Forum" is latin for "public outdoor place".  In a public discussion it is entirely normal for someone you did not directly address to respond to you. If you want to respond to me privately then use a private message.
Quote
I'm 100%
...and you keep saying that you spend time criticizing your own opinions.  I'll give you a hint,  people who really think about things almost never say things like that. :)
Quote
his can be proven 100%
or this...
Quote
so I don't really know what you are arguing about unless you have an over inflated head that you seem to believe that you are “untouchable”!
I'm not sure if you are trolling or if you are simply too young to be talking here. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 13, 2015, 03:01:22 PM
trolls like SM, Cap-mo-ron  :)

Oh, the humanity...to be called a troll by a paid shill.

*is crest fallen*

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 13, 2015, 09:17:52 PM
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro
Oh, the humanity...to be called a troll by a paid shill.

*is crest fallen*

Regards...

'Tis naught more than classic diversion.  The
'perps' nearly always accuse their 'targets' of
being what they positively are. 8)

This too shall pass.

Their addiction for intercourse is extreme. :o
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 14, 2015, 12:56:05 AM
'Tis naught more than classic diversion.  The
'perps' nearly always accuse their 'targets' of
being what they positively are. 8)

This too shall pass.

Their addiction for intercourse is extreme. :o

The challenges are many multiples of three,

when you are paid by the stroke of key.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 14, 2015, 01:29:02 AM
what they positively are.
I have a theory about people who use words like '100%' or 'positively' in a context where you can't really be sure.  I tend to think that people like this are actually revealing their insecurity in their position and are compensating by "papering over" their doubts with extreme terms. 8)  What do you think?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 14, 2015, 03:50:18 AM
Quote from: Sark-Eizen
I have a theory about people who use words like '100%' or 'positively' in a context where you can't really be sure.  I tend to think that people like this are actually revealing their insecurity in their position and are compensating by "papering over" their doubts with extreme terms. 8)  What do you think?

If the shoe fits, wear it.

A tree is known by the fruit it bears.

Failure is a detour, not a dead-end street.

And:
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 14, 2015, 04:05:18 AM
I was responding to sarkeizen and you decided to respond to me while quoting my responses to sarkeizen! What more proof do you need that you abused forum etiquette?

Now you are trying to tell me that you have a right to respond to others when they are not even talking to you.

I can picture you having a conversation with someone in real person and then someone else cuts you off and speaks for you. Lol

But I guess you have been on the internet for so long that you already forgot what etiquette means?

I'm 100% sure you would not like it if someone else answers for you and this can be proven 100% so I don't really know what you are arguing about unless you have an over inflated head that you seem to believe that you are “untouchable”!

You are kidding...right?  I mean, you come on a public forum, and want to hold a private conversation...is that it?

There is a device called a p.m. (private message) built into this software that allows for that.

You claimed that 99% of all people on all forums agree with your new rule.  I would sure like to see the study that proves that correct.  Everyone on this forum, and all of the others I have been on for years, act like they are all together in a room speaking.  Have you never been to a cocktail party?

If you are at a cocktail party, and want to have a private conversation, you go outside, or into another room. (PM)

Surely you can not be this ignorant can you?

Also, what the hell does  "I can picture you having a conversation with someone in real person and then someone else cuts you off and speaks for you" mean?
I am not going to abide by this new rule that you just made up.  I doubt that anyone else here will do so either.

Try the p.m.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 14, 2015, 04:09:29 AM
If the shoe fits, wear it.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 14, 2015, 04:17:30 AM
I rather doubt anyone else went past the first letter of that piece of spam.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 14, 2015, 05:53:49 AM
Ah, well... ;)

The things children will do to act out
their frustrations. ::)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 14, 2015, 05:58:09 AM
The things children will do to act out their frustrations.
I've heard that some nurse their wounds through vacuous dime-store affirmations.  Perhaps you have some insight there? :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 14, 2015, 11:13:00 AM
Quote
You are kidding...right?  I mean, you come on a public forum, and want to hold a private conversation...is that it?

OMG! Are you really that ill in the mind?

Quote
There is a device called a p.m. (private message) built into this software that allows for that.

What does that have to do with anything? I really find you corrupted in the brain!

Quote
You claimed that 99% of all people on all forums agree with your new rule.  I would sure like to see the study that proves that correct.  Everyone on this forum, and all of the others I have been on for years, act like they are all together in a room speaking.  Have you never been to a cocktail party?

OMG! Lol i'm talking to a mental person! Now I want to treat you special treatments. You have zero knowledge about anything what so ever! 30 year moderating has done a nice gone to your brain!

Quote
If you are at a cocktail party, and want to have a private conversation, you go outside, or into another room. (PM)

Ohhh OK! Lol, well i'm sure you will be there talking for the other person in the “private conversation”...you have no brain matter man!

Quote
Surely you can not be this ignorant can you?

hey JB weld BOY! Lol you are too cocky to speak knowledge!

Quote
Also, what the hell does  "I can picture you having a conversation with someone in real person and then someone else cuts you off and speaks for you" mean?
I am not going to abide by this new rule that you just made up.  I doubt that anyone else here will do so either.

Holly crap on a pedestal! You are so sick in the brain that you have no cure! Lol i'lll always remember as a JB weld boy! Nothing that comes out of your mouth is even SMART! The only solution for you is to give you a taste of your onw medicine dodo bird!

I seriously see this guy half brain dead! Lol
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 14, 2015, 11:26:31 AM
Sarkeizen is also the WANT_TO_BE_DOCTOR!

I asked him soo many times to explain the cancers he supposedly understand and HE does not know anything!

How many times do you ask a sane person to explain themselves when you just have to acknowledge them as mental? = delusional?

Pirate88179 is totally mental! I'll JB weld a fan on a motor and that means I understand how dishwashers work! Poor old guy! He believes that he understands dishwasher by JB welding a blade on a 3-phase motor and he did a good job since it has been 4 years and no complains...lol...i'm 100% sure he heard this racket from the motor and he visually saw the fan loose so he used JB weld and not think he understand how dishwashers work! Lol that is sad and funny at the same time.

Then he has been moderating for 30 years! And he will continue to till the creep keeper comes along! Lol. He is so ill in the brain that I hope he gets a brain transplant soon...ohhh, wait, old brains have less electronic exchange= IOW, less thinking power! That means a 30 yr old has a healthier brain than a 57 yr old, 100% facts! But his old brain will fight that he is the smartest oerson in the world with his machining skills and forum moderating skill and jb welding a fan on a motor skills, oh my! lol

He believe that no other person will surpass his brain power (it is not really that powerful) i sure there is nothing to be learned form this guy! lol

 ;D
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 14, 2015, 11:41:53 AM
Look at the smart response from pirate! It is so ignorant and stupid that what else do you respond to this leech?

http://i.imgur.com/kq5z7ph.png

Notice How i was not speaking to him! lol To be honest I believe his parents never taught him any manners/etiquette!

Now he is all over the place trying to say that what he does is NORMAL 99.9% of the rest of humans do this! lol...poor guy...someone needs to wake him a wake up call!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 14, 2015, 12:06:08 PM
Well there you  have it from the most intelligent person in the world.

Quote
Have you ever heard of a dead person developing cancer?  No?  Well, there you have it.  You have to be alive to get it so, life must cause it.
Being alive causes cancers...lol  and JB welding a fan on a motor will make the machines live longer!

LOL, what do you answer to such ignorant statements...lol? I'm actually laughing when I read that!

He just went out of topic too!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 14, 2015, 02:39:05 PM
Sarkeizen is also the WANT_TO_BE_DOCTOR!
Nope not interested in being a doctor. I'm happy with what I do. 8)
Quote
I asked him soo many times to explain the cancers he supposedly understand and HE does not know anything!
I did explain one cause of cancer.  You just appear not to have understood. :)  Nor can you seem to state clearly if you think that tumors are cancer.

You also seem to want to conflate cancer (unrestricted cell division), with inflammation (vascular response to disease or damage) and scar tissue (fibrous tissue with collagen in a particular direction).  All of these are clearly different when looked at under a microscope.

I'm starting to think you're a troll, not just an idiot. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 14, 2015, 02:57:13 PM
http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/dear-parents-you-are-being-lied-0

Kind of a list of blanket counters to many anti-vaccine positions.   Not exactly a counter to much of SM's postings as they are more like someone randomly smashing keys. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 14, 2015, 03:34:19 PM
Look at the smart response from pirate! It is so ignorant and stupid that what else do you respond to this leech?

http://i.imgur.com/kq5z7ph.png (http://i.imgur.com/kq5z7ph.png)

Notice How i was not speaking to him! lol To be honest I believe his parents never taught him any manners/etiquette!

Now he is all over the place trying to say that what he does is NORMAL 99.9% of the rest of humans do this! lol...poor guy...someone needs to wake him a wake up call!



Below, is the delusional arse kissing butt pirate in a tussle with EMJunkie, but thinking he's battling joel.

Too funny.

Lets just hope he doesn't get mixed up again, and start trying to JB Weld the arses he kisses.

Regards...


Quote from: Pirate88179 on Today at 07:55:42 AM (http://overunity.com/14974/magnet-myths-and-misconceptions/msg432848/#msg432848)<blockquote>Waitress, could we please get some coffee for Joel over here to go with his humble pie?

Thank you.

Bill


Quote from: Cap-Z-ro on Today at 03:01:45 PM (http://overunity.com/14974/magnet-myths-and-misconceptions/msg432891/#msg432891)The apex of hilarity...

Looks like the royal arse kisser got his perceived enemy's cornfused...he's now got joel and EMJ mixed up.

He must be getting punch drunk...rum punch probably.

Heaven forbid, that he starts trying to kiss my arse next, in his many states of inebriation.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MileHigh on January 14, 2015, 06:42:07 PM
Captain Zero,

It's time for your harassment of Bill to STOP.  Enough is enough and this has been going on for far too long.

I know that you bickered with each other.  But at this point you are clearly the instigator.

And you people reading this that agree with me, I challenge you to post your displeasure also.  Do you have the guts to do it?

This has to stop right now.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 14, 2015, 06:59:35 PM
It's time for your harassment of Bill to STOP.  Enough is enough and this has been going on for far too long.
Good point.  Cap-Z-ro isn't engaging an issue, he isn't even strongly adverse to an idea.  He is just attacking people even when they are not engaging him.  Harassment is a good word for that.

I also don't see him contributing much of technical worth either.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 14, 2015, 08:11:53 PM
Good point.  Cap-Z-ro isn't engaging an issue, he isn't even strongly adverse to an idea.  He is just attacking people even when they are not engaging him.  Harassment is a good word for that.

I also don't see him contributing much of technical worth either.

In my defense, I never had a problem with the forums official arse kisser...he was arse kissing up a storm here, and it never bothered me one bit.

Then came the day when he just didn't like me kicking the ass of the forum's chief naysayer and nitpicker.

How was I to know the butt pirate was still attached to the naysayer's arse at the time ?

To me, it just appeared the naysayer had a big arse.

And to be chastised by 2 of the forum's least respected "members" is laughable.


And lets not forget it was the butt pirate who started attacking me, to increase his standing among the knowitall's, who arses he kisses.

But that wasn't good enough, he had it in his head that he had the upper hand(arrogance has that effect), and began following me from thread to thread, sniping at me.

When he realized I was making a fool out of him, he suddenly lost his enthusiasm, and pretended to put me on ignore.

Then he started picking fights with a number of other members, to the point he doesn't know which member he is addressing anymore.

In life, when you are in the habit of picking on people, its not always up to you when the fight will end.

Thats how we all live and learn, isn't it ?

Those who ignore life's lessons need a little humble pie to aid in digestion.

Regards...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 14, 2015, 09:45:35 PM
Oral Contraceptives linked to Cancer. (http://beforeitsnews.com/health/2015/01/medical-alert-oral-contraceptives-cause-cancer-2560562.html)

We're literally surrounded by disease causing
substances.

Pain Control Medications can be hazardous too. (http://www.naturalnews.com/048287_pain_relief_natural_cures_alternative_medicine.html)

There are alternatives;  Natural alternatives.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on January 14, 2015, 10:19:38 PM
Contraceptives (http://kill-or-cure.herokuapp.com/a-z/c#term136) both cause and prevent cancer.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on January 14, 2015, 10:21:35 PM
Captain Zero,

It's time for your harassment of Bill to STOP.  Enough is enough and this has been going on for far too long.

I know that you bickered with each other.  But at this point you are clearly the instigator.

And you people reading this that agree with me, I challenge you to post your displeasure also.  Do you have the guts to do it?

This has to stop right now.

MileHigh
Barring moderation Cap is going to behave as he chooses.  It is very unlikely that he will change his posting habits because they outrage anyone.  Outrage seems to be what he wants.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MileHigh on January 14, 2015, 10:39:06 PM
Well, perhaps some peer pressure will get him to stop.  People have a right to log onto a forum without being demeaned and attacked every day.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 14, 2015, 11:05:55 PM
Oral Contraceptives linked to Cancer. (http://beforeitsnews.com/health/2015/01/medical-alert-oral-contraceptives-cause-cancer-2560562.html)

We're literally surrounded by disease causing
substances.
Speaking just for myself here.  I'm not surrounded by birth-control pills.  So, out of curiosity.  Do you think that article provides a highly accurate depiction of the situation OR a inaccurate depiction.  Considering how interested you claim to be in the truth. I would like to know your views here! :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 14, 2015, 11:11:59 PM
Pain Control Medications can be hazardous too. (http://www.naturalnews.com/048287_pain_relief_natural_cures_alternative_medicine.html)

There are alternatives;  Natural alternatives.
LOL.  Easily the funniest thing I've read all day.  My favorite joke there was the bit about willow bark. :)  It's always awesome to read someone who knows absolutely zero about pharmacology tell you what you should take. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 14, 2015, 11:49:54 PM
Barring moderation Cap is going to behave as he chooses.  It is very unlikely that he will change his posting habits because they outrage anyone.  Outrage seems to be what he wants.

The forum's biggest knowitall hath spoken...again...and, out of his asshole as usual.


Well, perhaps some peer pressure will get him to stop.
 

To think this brain dead twit actually thinks I am affected by "peer pressure" ??


Quote
People have a right to log onto a forum without being demeaned and attacked every day.

And they certainly do...until they start they start hounding other members.

This arsehole likes to have people believe that it was I who initiated the attack...when in fact it was the forum's designated arse kisser to the trolls.

But, apparently his well known hypocritical arseholeness doesn't feel people have a right to log onto a forum without being hounded the likes of him every day.


I guess its only natural that the right and left cheek protect their common arshole.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MileHigh on January 15, 2015, 12:10:00 AM
Captain Zero:

You are just one big Barf-o-Rama.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S7kg1IhZ7M
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 15, 2015, 01:01:54 AM
Captain Zero:

You are just one big Barf-o-Rama.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S7kg1IhZ7M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S7kg1IhZ7M)

The only people who seem to be upset with me are arse kissers, trolls, and shills...that tell me I'm on the right track.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MileHigh on January 15, 2015, 02:11:12 AM
I'm not sensing a ground rush of support for your colourful metaphors.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: ramset on January 15, 2015, 02:20:23 AM
how could a truce be negotiated ?,[nothing to do with Bill Alek or his Hair]
A ceasefire??


Please??


even just to clear the wounded from the Battlefield....
its a humanitarian thing..


thx
Chet
Maybe just 24 Hrs to start...
?



Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 15, 2015, 02:37:18 AM
I'm not sensing a ground rush of support for your colourful metaphors.

What he really means is that nobody responded to his call for people to castigate me for abusing the forum's arrogant designated arse kisser...who went after me first lets not forget.

Regards...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 15, 2015, 02:43:29 AM
how could a truce be negotiated ?,[nothing to do with Bill Alek or his Hair]
A ceasefire??


Please??


even just to clear the wounded from the Battlefield....
its a humanitarian thing..

thx

Chet
Maybe just 24 Hrs to start...?


Chet, it certainly won't be before the butt pirate demonstrates that he has stopped attacking other members here.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on January 15, 2015, 02:43:37 AM
how could a truce be negotiated ?,[nothing to do with Bill Alek or his Hair]
A ceasefire??


Please??

even just to clear the wounded from the Battlefield....
its a humanitarian thing..


thx
Chet
Maybe just 24 Hrs to start...
?
What if there was a war and nobody came?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 15, 2015, 02:56:22 AM
What if there was a war and nobody came?

What if there was an overunity.com and he came?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: ramset on January 15, 2015, 03:00:59 AM
Cap
So that sounds like a "condition" [no new attacks]perhaps we can start there and move forward.


?


Like a time out...........


Thx
Chet
ps
I must say that overall the forum has been getting better at self control...
I know its not easy,but its really the way we need to go.


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 15, 2015, 04:00:15 AM
Cap
So that sounds like a "condition" [no new attacks]perhaps we can start there and move forward.


?


Like a time out...........


Thx
Chet

Well, i had planned to drag it around a little longer...but since you asked so nicely I will hold up my end of the board.

Quote
ps
I must say that overall the forum has been getting better at self control...
I know its not easy,but its really the way we need to go.

Unfortunately, on an unmoderated board, due to disruptive influences running amok....and under those conditions, the only strategy that seems to work is old time hockey.

Nobody pushed the Red Wings around when Probert was on the ice.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: ramset on January 15, 2015, 04:06:27 AM
Thank you


I see you asked EMJunkie about his bucking coil Idea,I remember you did some experiments in years past.
are you considering a build??


thx
Chet
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 15, 2015, 04:28:46 AM
Actually, just lately, I've started stealing a little Dave45, a little Ken W, now a little EMJ, and  mixing a little of mine...plus whatever else I may have absorbed from the other sage contributors here.

I'm still haunted by not paying attention to a small motor greatly increasing its rpm's off of a 9v battery because I was focusing on something else.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 15, 2015, 04:42:12 AM
Like a time out...........
I guess if there's one person who needs one it's Cap-Z-ro. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 15, 2015, 04:46:26 AM
I guess if there's one person who needs one it's Cap-Z-ro. :)

Freudian translation...or shill back masking:

The forum needs a time from the CDC shill...a long one.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 15, 2015, 04:50:22 AM
I guess if there's one person who needs one it's Cap-Z-ro. :)

He doesn't bother me, he is on ignore so I do not have to be bored by his infantile rantings.  He never did offer anything constructive here on this site so, he is not missed.  He does not build, or experiment, or learn for that matter so...no big loss to anyone that ignores his gibberish and rants.

He will get bored and then go try to insult folks on another forum somewhere.

Ignore is a wonderful feature.  My guess is that Crap-Z-ro holds the record for being ignored by the most people.  He deserves it, ha ha.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: ramset on January 15, 2015, 05:06:32 AM
well maybe you should take him off ignore for a moment
he has agreed to a ceasefire based on cooperation from yourself [and others]


so perhaps we try that for a while?


Please...?


thx
Chet
I have seen these ceasefires last for quite sometime .
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 15, 2015, 05:17:39 AM
well maybe you should take him off ignore for a moment
he has agreed to a ceasefire based on cooperation from yourself [and others]


so perhaps we try that for a while?


Please...?


thx
Chet
I have seen these ceasefires last for quite sometime .

Chet:

I know that you are a nice guy with your heart in the right place.  I prefer the ignore feature as it saves me from reading his infantile rants.  He is just begging to be moderated and, this way, I will have nothing to do with it when that happens, and, I can enjoy my time on this forum and continue to learn.

Put it this way, ignoring is much easier.

Thanks,

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 15, 2015, 05:21:10 AM
well maybe you should take him off ignore for a moment he has agreed to a ceasefire based on cooperation from yourself
Here's my counter offer.  Cap-Z-ro has to make an argument about vaccines causing significant harm (or clearly and unambiguously admit they are largely harmless), support it and answer any and all questions on it.   If he can not provide compelling evidence for his position.   He will clearly and unambiguously admit he has little reason for his belief.

I bring this up because the reason I'm ignoring Cap-Z-ro is not because he's abusive but simply that his posts are vapid. :)  I think the more skeptical folk would agree that if Cap was capable of actually doing something other than just insult.  He probably wouldn't be on ignore.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 15, 2015, 05:38:35 AM
He doesn't bother me, he is on ignore so I do not have to be bored by his infantile rantings.  He never did offer anything constructive here on this site so, he is not missed.  He does not build, or experiment, or learn for that matter so...no big loss to anyone that ignores his gibberish and rants.

He will get bored and then go try to insult folks on another forum somewhere.

Ignore is a wonderful feature.  My guess is that Crap-Z-ro holds the record for being ignored by the most people.  He deserves it, ha ha.

Bill

Quote
Chet:

I know that you are a nice guy with your heart in the right place.  I prefer the ignore feature as it saves me from reading his infantile rants.  He is just begging to be moderated and, this way, I will have nothing to do with it when that happens, and, I can enjoy my time on this forum and continue to learn.

Put it this way, ignoring is much easier.

Thanks,

Bill


So, there you have it ladies gentlemen and Chet.

Draw your own conclusions...

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 15, 2015, 05:52:20 AM
Here's my counter offer.  Cap-Z-ro has to make an argument about vaccines causing significant harm (or clearly and unambiguously admit they are largely harmless), support it and answer any and all questions on it.   If he can not provide compelling evidence for his position.   He will clearly and unambiguously admit he has little reason for his belief.

I bring this up because the reason I'm ignoring Cap-Z-ro is not because he's abusive but simply that his posts are vapid. :)  I think the more skeptical folk would agree that if Cap was capable of actually doing something other than just insult.  He probably wouldn't be on ignore.

Ever notice that whenever you place the onus where it belongs they always fall back into the pro wrestler routine...where what when...I didn't see a thing - round 10 !

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 15, 2015, 01:13:10 PM
I seriously see milehigh and sarkeizen being more “intelligent” than pirate88179. I really tried hard to understand his “knowledge” but at this point milehigh and sarkeizen have more brain matter than he does! I honestly only see him as a spoiled little brat!

Nothing to be learned from him! JB weld A metal fan on a motor, being a forum moderator for 30 yrs, saying things that no one will ever learn what he has learned! I think it is time some gives him a cold REALITY check that he is not that SMART!

He is done and over with! He is the perfect example why the saying “you can't never teach old dog new tricks!”

He has been on forums over 30 years (I have probably one year), he has been a machinist over 30 years probably too, and now he is toooo cocky to tell him that he will eventually get phased out and that his ONLY goal in life is to make his kids smarter than his brain! But for some reason I”M GUESSING he still believes that his kids are stupider than he is! = cult leader at it's best!

Milehigh, do you really hang out with this guy in real life?

Sarkeizen, do you really hang out with this guy in real life?

Who wants to hang out with pirate88179 in real life?

NOt me for sure!

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 15, 2015, 01:31:39 PM
Based on what I have seen, milehigh is wayyyy smarter than pirate88179.

Based from what I have seen sarkeizen is wayyyy smarter than pirate88179.

Based from what I have seen MarkE is wayyyyy smarter than pirate88179.

Pirate88179 has 6 thousand eight hundred and one post here?

The I come along and ask him questions and I don't even see him as that smart and it could easilly be proven in real life scenarios. Then i'm wondering, how in the world is he here with 6801 posts in the first place? One would expect, the greater the posts, the greater the "knowledge"!!!

And then he gives me this “i JB welded  3-phase fan motor” so he believes he understands how dishwashers works!

Tehn I tell him that he should NOT speak for others and then he says “i have been a moderator for 30 yrs and you are the only one whom has brought that up”....and then I ask myself “wow, this guy has been a moderator for 30 yrs and I'm here bringing this up”? Then I ask myself, “how long how this guy been ignorant”? Lol...poor guy! He has more EGO than KNOWLEDGE!

Milehigh, sarkeizen, and MarkE, stop the ignorance already!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 15, 2015, 03:16:53 PM
He is either too dense, shallow, or his ego will not allow him to see it, but he has assumed the role of dupe, or useful idiot to the shills here.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 15, 2015, 03:42:46 PM
Ever notice that whenever you place the onus where it belongs
The burden of proof you mean?  Ok, no problem.  All you have to do is clearly and unambiguously state your position and clearly and unambiguously answer any questions about your position and if it can be shown that you are wrong in some respect you will clearly and unambiguously state that. :)

See no burden of proof....and now you will dodge this too. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 15, 2015, 03:46:20 PM
I honestly only see him as a spoiled little brat!
...and from what I would say that title belongs to you more than he. :)
Quote
no one will ever learn what he has learned!
What he said was that it would be difficult for YOU to.  He was implying that you are not intelligent.

Quote
Sarkeizen, do you really hang out with this guy in real life?
No but that's because I don't know who he is.  He seems reasonable enough. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 15, 2015, 04:05:32 PM
The burden of proof you mean?  Ok, no problem.  All you have to do is clearly and unambiguously state your position and clearly and unambiguously answer any questions about your position and if it can be shown that you are wrong in some respect you will clearly and unambiguously state that. :)

See no burden of proof....and now you will dodge this too. :)

The readers who have read back can see the shill running from the burden of truth...because he has no foundation to stand on.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 15, 2015, 06:43:52 PM
The readers who have read back
Well I called that one.  You complain about the burden of proof being put on you.  I take it off and say that all you have to be able to do is be willing to put effort in to make your position clear to me.   No dice. :) :) :)

Since that's pretty much the minimum required to discuss anything with anybody you disagree with.  This is you admitting that you're not at all interested in conversation.  Which is cool.  Your choice.  However, yet again you've lost any grounds for complaint.   Thanks! 8)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 15, 2015, 07:00:38 PM
Well I called that one.  You complain about the burden of proof being put on you.  I take it off and say that all you have to be able to do is be willing to put effort in to make your position clear to me.   No dice. :) :) :)

Since that's pretty much the minimum required to discuss anything with anybody you disagree with.  This is you admitting that you're not at all interested in conversation.  Which is cool.  Your choice.  However, yet again you've lost any grounds for complaint.   Thanks! 8)

Some readers want to see him prove vaccinations are safe, but i kinda enjoy seeing him squirm away from the subject.

I know I know...its a tad sadistic, but its not as bad as picking the wings off fly's tho.

Regards...


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 15, 2015, 07:09:06 PM
prove vaccinations are safe,
But you won't let me ask questions and you won't reply with clear responses about your assertion right?  Ok, again thanks for admitting that you're not interested in talking. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 15, 2015, 07:33:12 PM
But you won't let me ask questions and you won't reply with clear responses about your assertion right?  Ok, again thanks for admitting that you're not interested in talking. :)

Gotta love it... the squirm of the worm is a thing of beauty folks.


Shill speak:

" step right up - inject this snake oil...its gooood for you...cures all that ails you.

But...the onus is on YOU, to you to prove that its bad for you."

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MileHigh on January 15, 2015, 07:57:37 PM
"The Flight of the Hypocrite" is also a thing of beauty and a wonder to observe.

This is just a pure hypothetical:  A really really nasty "super flu bug" infects the population and has a 30% mortality rate.  It's an airborne bug and spreads like wildfire.  However, the people that work on vaccines make a breakthrough and fortunately within a month the serum is perfected and goes into mass production.  There are massive queues everywhere as people wait to get their injections.  Heaven forbid, they actually use a mercury compound in the vaccine to prevent any nasty bacteria from culturing in order to make it SAFER.

Little Cappy Nada and the SeaHorse would also get in that line FOR SURE.  If you have a choice between a 30% chance of death vs. a little pin-prick on your skin it's a no-brainer.  The Grouch Marx glasses they are wearing don't disguise their identities as they wait in line.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 15, 2015, 08:08:43 PM
Shill drowning in massive pool of own urine...troll to the rescue with mouth to mouth - chooses wrong end.

Both now floating face down.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MileHigh on January 15, 2015, 08:23:38 PM
The classy metaphor guy entertains us with another song and dance.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 15, 2015, 08:27:07 PM
But...the onus is on YOU, to you to prove that its bad for you."
Actually that's the absolute opposite of what I said.  I said all you have to do is clearly and unambiguously answer questions about your position. 

That is, by any standard or measure the minimum for conversation.  Since you refuse.  You lose the argument. :)

Keep on being that kind of loser. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MileHigh on January 15, 2015, 08:32:09 PM
His position would be IN LINE.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 15, 2015, 11:14:43 PM
Actually that's the absolute opposite of what I said.  I said all you have to do is clearly and unambiguously answer questions about your position. 

That is, by any standard or measure the minimum for conversation.  Since you refuse.  You lose the argument. :)

Keep on being that kind of loser. :)

One reader opined that it is impossible to debate a shill...particularly when they refuse to present any evidence that supports their snake oil - er, I mean position.

That was quite the selfie the troll took, I wood say.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 16, 2015, 12:01:41 AM
refuse to present any evidence
Actually I have but obviously I have not answered your particular question.  So if we are going to talk you have to let me ask questions about your assertion.

You refuse.  Hence you don't actually want to talk.  Again, you lose. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 16, 2015, 12:41:09 AM
Slimy shill says...

"Trust me...inject this mercury and other strange stuff into your kids body...never mind that I don't have and evidence that its safe or effective.

And don't listen to all those whiners who say their kids coincidentally turned into zombies afterward."

Shill now stuck in tar baby.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on January 16, 2015, 12:48:29 AM
In the news
Flu Vaccine Not Working Well; Only 23 Percent Effective
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/flu-vaccine-working-23-percent-effective-28249610 (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/flu-vaccine-working-23-percent-effective-28249610)
 
AC
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 16, 2015, 12:50:01 AM


Quote from: Zen Gardner
How many times have we been faced with the decision to move on to the next level of commitment to truth? How often has a new level of personal sacrifice been standing at our door, beckoning? How did we respond? Were we willing to go further, no matter the cost?

That’s pretty much what it takes in the pursuit of truth. A constant shedding of the old, no matter how attached we’ve become to our self image and familiar surroundings; to be relentlessly following the signal from this esoteric siren of love and a greater reality that we know awaits. Much like mountain climbing, the decision comes first, then the climbing. But each step of the way presents more decisions. Will we go on in spite of fatigue, doubts, discouragement and obstacles? Which path will I take at each upcoming juncture?
...
Those still attached to their status, income, good deeds, moral high ground, or sense of superior intellect or spirituality in an exclusive and judgmental manner can be the worst enemies to full on truth and spiritual freedom. It takes on many forms and we all fall for these attitudes when in an unconscious or semi-conscious state. After all, it’s fiercely reinforced by the matrix and its tear down mentality.

They will dis and dismiss anything that surpasses their little ledge of advantage they think they’ve climbed to, and be quite militant and aggressive about it. If it doesn’t meet their criteria, it’s to be vigorously attacked as false information. A very sad psychological state to be in, but we see it in society at every level and have all experienced it from both ends.

The most obvious manifestation of this mindset is how anything contrary to the mainstream narrative is marginalized as “politically incorrect”, “conspiracy theory” and now even “terrorist activity”. But this permeates every level of information sharing, and is a huge hindrance to those seeking the full on clarity and empowerment awaiting anyone with the will to pursue it.
...


Source (http://www.zengardner.com/further-the-oft-neglected-path/)


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 16, 2015, 12:55:45 AM
Quote from: allcanadian
In the news
Flu Vaccine Not Working Well; Only 23 Percent Effective
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/flu-vaccine-working-23-percent-effective-28249610 (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/flu-vaccine-working-23-percent-effective-28249610)

Aye, other studies (U.S. Navy) confirm this reality
but with much less effectiveness:  perhaps 3% tops.

But, the Flu Vaccine, like all vaccines, is a huge
money-maker.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 16, 2015, 01:00:03 AM
Maybe they put to much emphasis the sterilization of the victims-er, I mean patients ?

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 16, 2015, 01:49:46 AM


Tehn I tell him that he should NOT speak for others and then he says “i have been a moderator for 30 yrs and you are the only one whom has brought that up”....and then I ask myself “wow, this guy has been a moderator for 30 yrs and I'm here bringing this up”?




Wow Joel, I know you have problems with simple math but...really?  I said I have been a Moderator in certain areas of this forum for 6 years, not 30...that is 6.
There is a big difference between 30 and 6.  30 is not 6 AND 6 is not 30.  You can go back and read my post for yourself.

Also, please try to use real English words when posting, it makes it easier for others to read without having to decipher it.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 16, 2015, 01:49:55 AM
"Trust me...
Nope.  Never said you had to trust me.
Quote
never mind that I don't have and evidence that its safe or effective.
I do and I've provided some.  However apparently this is not sufficient for you.  So I need to clarify some things about your position....but that would require you participating.

Again I really appreciate all this evidence that you are not at all interested in talking. :) :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 16, 2015, 01:58:55 AM
Flu Vaccine Not Working Well; Only 23 Percent Effective
Depending on the age group the CDC estimates are as little as 14%.  However I've already explained the problem with these estimates.  :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 16, 2015, 01:59:42 AM
Aye, other studies (U.S. Navy) confirm this reality but with much less effectiveness:  perhaps 3% tops.
Please provide a cite. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 16, 2015, 03:43:21 AM
Nope.  Never said you had to trust me.

A rose by any other name, is but a rose.


Quote
I do and I've provided some.
 

Nothing unbiased has emanated from that vessel.


Quote
However apparently this is not sufficient for you.
 

Nothing plus nothing is still nothing...well, in earth based reality anyway.


Quote
So I need to clarify some things about your position....but that would require you participating.

A reader offered that 'Cap almost never addresses shills and trolls directly - and uses a mirror when gazing upon them'...except for when he is referring to himself in the 3rd person(a crowd favorite I might add).


Quote
Again I really appreciate all this evidence that you are not at all interested in talking. :) :)

Op...did anyone see that ?...he just placed the burden of proof back on to Cap !!!

That wood be the same 'burden of proof' which he acknowledged and accepted in an above post quoted below...

Cap:  mimiking shill in mocking fashion:  "never mind that I don't have and evidence that its safe or effective."

Shill's terse reply:  ''' I do and I've provided some.  However apparently this is not sufficient for you.'''


So now we have a real live mystery on our hands...right here on overunity.com, I said, right here on overunity.com.

Who's the dirty scoundrel that absconded with one of our Shill's evidentiary post ?

I may have to consult my personal friend, world famous psychic Clara Voyant, in order to get to the bottom of this.

Now, this may not have been done maliciously, it may simply have been one of the readers pranking our erstwhile shill.

There may also be a freedom of speech issue involved...I will leave that to the shill to address, as he wood be the alleged victim.

I have a feeling he will gracefully overlook the incident...as we all know how loosey goosey he is in with everybody else's intellectual property.

Lets hope all's swell that ends swell.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 16, 2015, 04:12:59 AM
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro
Op...did anyone see that ?...he just placed the burden of proof back on to Cap !!!
Nope.  I just said that I provided evidence, you claim it is not sufficient.  Since you are the one deciding what evidence is acceptable and what is not.  Then clearly the only way I can meet that burden is to be able to ask you questions.

Which you have not agreed to.  As soon as you do.  We can talk. :)  If you don't well again that's pretty enormous evidence that you don't want that. :)   But go ahead, prove me wrong.  Call my bluff.  Let me ask you questions.  8)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 16, 2015, 04:18:18 AM
Nope. 

Well, i guess that clears up that mud.

I don't know about the rest of you, but the word of an evasive shill is good enough for me.

Vaccines is good !

Do they have a DIY vaccination kit for sale...I wooden trust people who stick needles in other people to do it ?

Regards...



Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 16, 2015, 04:23:50 AM
I don't know about the rest of you, but the word of an evasive shill is good enough for me.
I've not asked you to take my word.  I've just pointed out that:

i) I've accepted your request to take on the burden of proof.
ii) Evidence has been presented - you agree
iii) You do not consider the evidence sufficient to support the claim that - vaccines are safe and effective - you agree
iv) In order to meet your standard of evidence I have to be able to determine what it is by asking questions that you will answer clearly.
v) You obviously don't want that.

Tell you what I'm going to put you back in the box.   Whenever you want to call my bluff, just let me know that you're willing to answer questions.  Okay?  Great. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 16, 2015, 04:25:41 AM




I am, and have been a Moderator in certain areas of this forum for over 6 years now.

Bill

Here is my post Joel as I know that you have real problems with research.

How the hell do you get 30 years out my saying 6 years?

Is this some sort of overunity?  A new type of QEG perhaps?

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 16, 2015, 04:32:39 AM
It just seems like 30.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 16, 2015, 05:06:31 AM
I've not asked you to take my word.  I've just pointed out that:

Word twisting or yet another honest misunderstanding of meaning...you be the judge.


Quote
i) I've accepted your request to take on the burden of proof.

Op...now he's back on the horse again...this is like playing 'Where's Waldo'.


Quote
ii) Evidence has been presented - you agree

Word twisting or yet another honest misunderstanding of meaning...you be the judge.


Quote
iii) You do not consider the evidence sufficient to support the claim that - vaccines are safe and effective - you agree

Word twisting or yet another honest misunderstanding of meaning...you be the judge.


Quote
iv) In order to meet your standard of evidence I have to be able to determine what it is...

Op...and now he as much as says he hasn't presented evidence...a little Freudian action going on there.

This is like playing Beatles songs backward, and hearing John say 'I buried Paul'.


Quote
v) You obviously don't want that.

And oddly enough, the Beatles recorded 'You Can't do That'...which contrastingly actually had some meaning and relevance to something.


Quote
Tell you what I'm going to put you back in the box.


I think the readers pretty  knew who was in a box long before now.


Quote
Whenever you want to call my bluff, just let me know that you're willing to answer questions.  Okay?  Great. :)


And...back to me again.

I guess if your head is spinning all the time, you almost adjust to it, and think nobody notices the dysfunctional behavior.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 16, 2015, 05:13:37 AM


Tell you what I'm going to put you back in the box.   Whenever you want to call my bluff, just let me know that you're willing to answer questions.  Okay?  Great. :)

I am telling you that IGNORE is a wonderful feature.  Last time I checked, 32 people have Crap-Z-ro on ignore.  Of course, that number is still climbing and may have gone up already.  My suggestion is, that when this number hits 60....sell.

(Past performance is not indicative of any stocks future returns. Invest at your own risk.  Publisher not responsible for the content of this message.)

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 16, 2015, 06:20:52 AM
Quote from: Sark-Eizen
Please provide a cite. :)

Un-published study results may never be cited
although it is possible to make mention of them
with certain limitations.

Any study result which would raise questions or
criticisms of current vaccination policy (90%
manpower requirement) are never officially
acknowledged.  Only those studies which
demonstrate an efficacy of approximately 25%
(for flu) are made available to the public and the
rank and file military members.

Government contracts for military vaccinations are
lucrative business.  A certain percentage of the vaccines
are experimental which makes the military members
equivalent to 'guinea pigs.'

Refusal to 'take' a required military vaccination is an
offense punishable under the UCMJ.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 16, 2015, 06:31:43 AM
Un-published study results may never be cited
So you're saying you have no idea what the figure you quoted means.  Very like you. :)
Quote
Any study result which would raise questions or criticisms of current vaccination policy are never officially acknowledged.
Since we are taking about citing.  I'll assume that "officially acknowledged" you mean published in a journal that can be cited.  Which is clearly untrue but to know that you would have to read studies in journals.  Which you don't seem capable of.  In fact for all your whining about truth you seem to just regurgitate things on websites. :)
Quote
(90% manpower requirement)
Made up figure?
Quote
Only those studies which  demonstrate an efficacy of approximately 25% (for flu)
14% isn't approximately 25% and I've already mentioned that figure. :)

Any chance you'll say you were wrong.  Didn't think so. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 16, 2015, 06:40:57 AM
I am telling you that IGNORE is a wonderful feature.


Especially with the ego concussions I gave the forum's self appointed arse kisser.


Quote
Last time I checked, 32 people have Crap-Z-ro on ignore.


Bill


Well, I have been here doing the spade work for what...30 years now, I believe.

And Yeah, I may have snapped a troll spine or 3 along the way...but I may be over selling myself here...who knows how many of them were simply multiple moniker trolls.

And of course, browned off the self appointed and incredibly stupid arse kisser to the shills and trolls.

Everyone has seen too many members leave or be hounded by those very same naysayers nitpickers and trouble makers that end up whining after taking runs at me...my, what another coincidence.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 16, 2015, 07:00:08 AM
Sark-Eizen,

Within the military establishment there exists a
body of research knowledge which is 'classified'
and made available only to those within the
compartmentalized environment with a 'need
to know.' 

The research data relating to vaccines and vaccinations
is more extensive than you might possibly imagine.
The knowledge which is being withheld from 'the public'
is astonishing.

There is much deception in all that is fed to the public.

The numbers of military men and women who've been
gravely incapacitated or lost their lives as subjects of military
vaccine research is staggering.

Military deaths 'in the line of duty' or 'in service to the country'
are exempted from normal legal remedies.

You are either aware of this and are engaging in purposeful
deception or you are one of the deceived 'useful idiots.'

The power of the 'contract' is awesome.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 16, 2015, 03:10:33 PM
Within the military establishment there exists a body of research knowledge which is 'classified'
and made available only to those within the compartmentalized environment with a 'need to know.' 
In other words there is a very low degree of transparency and therefore it is less reliable than non-military research.
Quote
The research data relating to vaccines and vaccinations is more extensive than you might possibly imagine.
We're talking about efficacy (and potentially safety) data.  The reason you think this is so easy is because you don't understand how research is done.  It's not your fault.  You probably don't have much more than high-school math and all you appear to do is read the absolutely lowest quality information written by some of the most ignorant people imaginable. Ok, that last part is your fault but being unable to differentiate is probably the fault of however you were educated. :)

The truth is the military can do all the studies it wants, it can spend it's entire budget and all the shadow budgets you can imagine and employ every enlisted, reserve and start kidnapping civilians at random and...would still be unable to get a significantly different result.  See there is, to anyone who took even an introduction to statistics - a law of diminishing returns when it comes to research.
Quote
There is much deception in all that is fed to the public.
There is, but the vast majority comes from websites like the ones you post...and people like yourself. :) Again when it comes to efficacy you can believe that the military spends all it's time inoculating people then exposing them to a disease.  However it's not likely that they will get a different result.
Quote
You are either aware of this and are engaging in purposeful deception or you are one of the deceived 'useful idiots.'
This is what logicians call a false dichotomy.  You are stating there are two possibilities when there are more than two.  For example one other possibility is that you are simply mistaken...another is that you're deluded.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 16, 2015, 09:45:18 PM
Sark-Eizen,

It really isn't your fault that you have no substantive
knowledge regarding military Biological Warfare
research and related studies.  In truth, very few people do. ::)

What has been accomplished opaquely within classified
programs (mostly deep underground) in the fields of
disease, genetic modifications and preventatives/cures
is decades ahead of the 'knowledge' which is made
available to modern institutions of learning. 8)

If you are truly interested in acquiring such knowledge
pursue it.  Not all who seek entry are approved and
the demands are rigorous.  But then, you have no idea
where to initiate the journey. ???

One day, in the future, if you're lucky you'll be approached
by a headhunter who is looking for fresh meat.  If you go
for it (the program) you'll be forever changed.  You'll have
ninety days to change your mind (back out) if your first
experiences are not in accordance with your expectations. :o

Maintain a 'high visibility' so that you'll be noticed by those
who are looking for new blood. ;)

It might be helpful to speak with a Navy Recruiter with a view
towards entering the Naval Medical Corps.  That would be like
getting your foot in the doorway. :)

Not to worry - if you do receive an invite to join the party you'll
be given a discharge 'at the convenience of the government'
and a new 'identity' as a civilian contractor.  Then you'll be on
your way... ;D

The Measles is back! (http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/Health-News/measles-disney-outbreak/2015/01/16/id/618977/?ns_mail_uid=6604460&ns_mail_job=1603897_01162015&s=al&dkt_nbr=fb9om9gc)
 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 16, 2015, 11:25:50 PM
is decades ahead of the 'knowledge' which is made available to modern institutions of learning. 8)
This is actually irrelevant.  Remember this was about a alleged navy study that said efficacy of the flu vaccine was 2%.  Again you can have all the money and people you want.  You can have technology 100000000000000000000 years ahead of our time.  You still have a hard time coming up with a significantly different answer. 

Why?  The law of diminishing returns isn't a technological constraint.  It's a mathematical one....and math looks at all the dollars, people and future tech that you pretend the government has and says: yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnn!

The fact that you are kind of an idiot in this way is only partially your fault but you don't help by not being interested in the truth. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 16, 2015, 11:31:17 PM
This is actually irrelevant.  Remember this was about a alleged navy study that said efficacy of the flu vaccine was 2%.  Again you can have all the money and people you want.  You can have technology 100000000000000000000 years ahead of our time.  Math looks at all of that and says: yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnn!

The fact that you are kind of an idiot in this way is only partially your fault but you don't help by not being interested in the truth. :)

Said by the shill/idiot who can't produce any evidence that his vaccines are safe and effective...unless he starts playing with text again.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 17, 2015, 03:52:24 AM
Quote from: Sark-Eizen
...
Remember this was about a alleged navy study that said efficacy of the flu vaccine was 2%.
...

The study indicated that the actual efficacy of the
public administered flu vaccine was 3% tops.

But, there was much more to the study than that.

Suffice it to say that vaccines which are 100% effective
against all 'strains' of flu are capable of being produced.

And more.

There are some members of the military who never get
any illness.  Well, apart that is, from mental illness.
They're intensively 'mind controlled' to make them
supermen.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 17, 2015, 05:35:11 AM
A most interesting take on living life which
many of us could find beneficial. (http://www.zengardner.com/how-to-unfck-the-world/)

Bottoms up!

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 17, 2015, 05:52:36 AM
So, are there really folks that believe that small pox, polio, and TB just stopped in society by accident?  Vaccinations had nothing to do with it?
Now, of course, some of these are making a comeback BUT, could that be that folks are entering this country by the droves have not had vaccinations?

I do believe that the shots have achieved much more good than the bad side effects, which, there are some.  It is a statistical choice.  Your kid has a 1 in 5 chance of dying from some horrible disease but, the shot to prevent it has only a 1 in 100,00,000.  This, of course, does not mean there is 0 risk...but...play the odds is what I say.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 17, 2015, 05:56:53 AM
The study indicated that the actual efficacy of the public administered flu vaccine was 3% tops.
So unless you are using the term "efficacy" in a way entirely different from the way researchers do.  This is very good evidence that whatever source you are relying on is entirely wrong.

Quote
Suffice it to say that vaccines which are 100% effective against all 'strains' of flu are capable of being produced.
Unlikely.  Information theory probably makes achieving that difficult.  That said there have been at least two articles about a "universal flu vaccine" in the past few days.  Which explains your incorporating this into your delusion.  This is based on the work of Miller published two years ago.   At least two phase II clinical trials for a broad antibody called CR8020 which is based on that work have happened in that time.  I haven't seen the results but even us lowly academics know:

a) This isn't a universal flu vaccine - at absolute best it's a universal Influenza A vaccine.
b) It's not even that, there are already (uncommon) viruses which are not affected like H7N9. 

So again your information sources are inferior to what is readily available from medical journals.  If you have the education to read them.   Which you don't. :) 
Quote
There are some members of the military who never get any illness.
Think, for once in your web-regurgitating-moronic life.  What would have to be true for that to be true.  See if you can figure out why that's stupid before I post back.  Ok?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 17, 2015, 07:35:08 AM
Quote
So, are there really folks that believe that small pox, polio, and TB just stopped in society by accident?  Vaccinations had nothing to do with it?
Now, of course, some of these are making a comeback BUT, could that be that folks are entering this country by the droves have not had vaccinations?

That is really not that hard to understand! And it is true. You just JB weld some molecules here and there and they are squeaking and then you make a vaccine.

Quote
I do believe that the shots have achieved much more good than the bad side effects, which, there are some.  It is a statistical choice.  Your kid has a 1 in 5 chance of dying from some horrible disease but, the shot to prevent it has only a 1 in 100,00,000.  This, of course, does not mean there is 0 risk...but...play the odds is what I say.

This is your common IMMUNE SYSTEM at it's best!

There is no cure for anything only the IMMUNE SYSTEM learning to cope with the virus.

Take for example the flu virus, the vaccine does not “cure” it but only helps the immune system to deal with it. Don't we have the flu virus getting people sick every year?

The flu shot is only for the MOST SPREAD flu viruses and does not guarantee 100% you will not get the flu. And once the flu virus gets in your system, your body YMMUNE SYSTEM remembers their genetic code, IOW, you will always carry that virus in your body. If you go to a reservation where no one has being had the “immunity” that your body has, they would, you will get the sick and will kill their population!

We actually do benefit from vaccinations here and there but that does not mean that the dinosaurs where going to the clinic to get flu shots! Where the dinosaurs have live thousands of more years than we have. Have you seen the TV show “monsters inside me”? Do you believe that the dandruff fungus will ever get outside your body just by using “headndshoulders” shampoo? The fongus will live for the rest of your living life in your body and will “mutate” here and there which in return the “creators” of the shampoo will have to add that MUTATION to their shampoo for LIFE! Since the fongus never leaves your body!

The actual solution is not vaccines but EDUCATION! The same happens to our IMMUNE SYSTEM, it learns how to LIVE WITH THE VIRUS IN THE BODY! The flu virus that you had 10 years with you is still living in your body, the body has just been immune to it. That is all!

Even with out vaccinations, the body would soon learn to deal with it because humans are not the same as microbial viruses. Humans are actually are encoded in their genetic code to keep on living. And with out vaccinations, the body will soon learn to immune itself from the viruses since the viruses need the human to survive too!

But your simplistic mind cannot understand that!

You see this all over nature how things work. And if there was one virus that gets rid of the human body, I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF A VIRUS GET RID OF A WHOLE MASSIVE POPULATION! And if that is even possible, that would only have to be in the low percentages! = they both depend on each other and they both need to keep each other in check!

How do you think the rest of the animals have survived for billions of years with out any vaccines? But I guess your brain cannot comprehend that far!


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 17, 2015, 07:40:40 AM



That is really not that hard to understand!
The actual solution is not vaccines but EDUCATION!


Yes, I agree.  Please try to get some.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 17, 2015, 07:45:37 AM
That is really not that hard to understand! And it is true. You just JB weld some molecules here and there and they are squeaking and then you make a vaccine.


Great line...post of the week material for sure.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 17, 2015, 07:47:17 AM
Quote
I do believe that the shots have achieved much more good than the bad side effects, which, there are some.[

you also have to take in consideration what gives is air to breath and what gives us food to eat! You are only focusing on YOUR EGOTISTICAL VACCINATION, what about the rest of the animals vaccinations?

I already told you that 50% of all animals (that are left) have been reduced half their existence! This is very simplistic and I don't believe you are able to think that far that when there are 100% humans in this world and zero% animals zero% plants is your remedy for your brain farts!

That is just looking, like I said, AT ONLY ONE ANGLE OF THE 360* knowledge of life!

What good would it be to help the immune system when you are killing everything else that gave you life in the first place? Then we go in to the analogy that I have mentioned before....you are stuck in an island with vaccines and medicine with no animals and no plants, and then see what happens in 40 more years of you taking man made drugs in your island full of drugs!

You have no way of looking that far from your nose! I don't even know how have you made it this far in the evolution game! The only thing I can think of is that you have more bark than a bite, sort of like a little chihuahua dog barking behind his fence, bet then we all know that there are wolfs, and pittbulls too! So 100% sure your mentality is not universal nor the key to life! Just based on that.

All I will expect from you is to reply to one sentence that you “believe” to grasp from everything that I have said...lol....i'll wait for it :P
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 17, 2015, 08:04:30 AM
Quote
Yes, I agree.  Please try to get some.

Yes coming from a person whom believes that vaccinations are the cure and not by EDUCATING the population how viruses get in your body in the first place, since, YAWN, if one avoids the virus in the first place, we would not have to pay medical virus vaccination support for the rest of our lives! Get it or do you need someone to explain that for you?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 17, 2015, 08:10:10 AM
Yes coming from a person whom believes that vaccinations are the cure and not by EDUCATING the population how viruses get in your body in the first place, since, YAWN, if one avoids the virus in the first place, we would not have to pay medical virus vaccination support for the rest of our lives! Get it or do you need someone to explain that for you?

JB Weld is the best preventative medicine.  Trust me on this.  If that does not work for you, try duct tape.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 17, 2015, 08:28:41 AM
Quote
JB Weld is the best preventative medicine.  Trust me on this.  If that does not work for you, try duct tape.

That SARCASM did not work as you expected it would lol
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 17, 2015, 02:58:48 PM
JB Weld is the best preventative medicine.  Trust me on this.  If that does not work for you, try duct tape.

Bill


A sad example of someone who has never been relevant his entire life, struggling to be relevant.

Regards...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MileHigh on January 17, 2015, 05:36:07 PM
I hate this stupid debate and only glance at it from time to time.  Cappy and Munkee will stand in line to save their own lives if a superbug ever threatens the population, FOR SURE.

If you sit in front of a camp fire and the wind blows smoke in your face for two minutes you probably get more "chemicals" in your bloodstream than a vaccination gives you.

I don't search for this stuff, the default home page for IE fed it to me:

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/us/too-rich-to-get-sick-disneyland-measles-outbreak-reflects-anti-vaccination-trend/ar-AA8hejd?ocid=iehp (http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/us/too-rich-to-get-sick-disneyland-measles-outbreak-reflects-anti-vaccination-trend/ar-AA8hejd?ocid=iehp)

"The outbreak has triggered recrimination towards an eclectic group of activists who are accused of sabotaging immunisation campaigns by peddling medical myths."

"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (http://www.cdc.gov/measles/) (CDC) calls measles, a virus that lives in the nose and throat, the “most deadly of all childhood rash/fever illnesses”. About 90% of those who are not immune will become infected if they come close to an infected person, according to the CDC."

"A debunked and withdrawn 1998 Lancet report linking vaccines to autism still lingers in some parents’ minds along with other worries, such as overloading a child’s immune system with multiple, simultaneous vaccinations – a concern lacking scientific basis, said Zahn."

"On Friday, the LA Times published an editorial and letters (http://www.latimes.com/opinion/readersreact/la-le-0116-friday-measles-vaccination-20150116-story.html) excoriating the anti-vaccine movement. “Ignorance cannot dictate public health,” wrote Richard Wulfsberg, a Studio City-based physician. “No unvaccinated child should be allowed to enter public school.”"

And I know our resident anti-vaccine linkers will rebut this with links from websites that are nothing more than virtual rags that want to sell you magnetic belts for improving your bioforce accumulator energy and "all natural" protein absorption complex beta-inhibitor pills so you can all decide for yourselves.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 17, 2015, 05:51:21 PM
I wood die before injecting that crap into my body.

That guy will die AFTER injecting that crap into his body.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MileHigh on January 17, 2015, 05:53:00 PM
Darwin Award candidate in waiting.  (And it's not me.)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 17, 2015, 06:08:11 PM
Darwin Award candidate in waiting.  (And it's not me.)

You'll have to excuse him, he also stood in line for the H1N1 "vaccine"...twice.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MileHigh on January 17, 2015, 06:19:20 PM
I did take the H1N1 vaccine and I felt absolutely nothing.  Then I died.  Then I got some magnetic bracelets and took Becky's "Orgone-a-Gasm" "all natural" bioforce pills and slept under a pyramid on a bed of razor blades and came back to life.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 17, 2015, 06:21:27 PM
I did take the H1N1 vaccine and I felt absolutely nothing.  Then I died.  Then I got some magnetic bracelets and took Becky's "Orgone-a-Gasm" "all natural" bioforce pills and slept under a pyramid on a bed of razor blades and came back to life.

The really amazing thing is, all of those razor blades are now sharp once again from being under the pyramid.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 17, 2015, 06:52:22 PM
All I will expect from you is to reply to one sentence
I'll choose a half-sentence.  Why?  Because your posts aren't cogent.  They are barely English.  If you focused on one particular point - even acknowledging that said point does not represent the entire issue - you might be able to talk with people more.  Instead you sound like a child or someone with some kind of social disorder (but my money is still on "troll").
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 17, 2015, 06:58:55 PM
The really amazing thing is, all of those razor blades are now sharp once again from being under the pyramid.

Bill

And yet another brilliant quote from the arse kisser to the trolls.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MileHigh on January 17, 2015, 07:03:23 PM
That was an amusing little follow-up line but you are just too c-r-e-e-p-y to even acknowledge that.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: ramset on January 17, 2015, 07:18:23 PM
Just one little search [nothing too specific]
sorry if its not as up to date as the 1998 studies mentioned here.
why yes I suppose there is nothing to see and its all figured out..
sorry for the trouble... Move along

ohh and as Sarc has said disregard the 167 peer revued papers mentioned in the MIT study
why ..Sarc is Just SSOOoooo smart  ,just ask him He'll tell you!!
he has a mirror in front of his desk ,it has sooo many Kissy marks on it I am not sure he can see himself anymore thru all the smudge marks...
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/categories/autism

Potential for early detection of autism offered by advanced 3-D facial imaging16 Jan 2015
Autism symptoms frequently missed by pediatricians during brief checkups 14 Jan 2015
Ritual circumcision linked to increased risk of autism in young boys13 Jan 2015
Systematically tracking subtle brain mutations 10 Jan 2015
How a protein crucial to learning and memory works 9 Jan 2015
Autism-linked protein for sculpting brain connections pinpointed by study 8 Jan 2015
Automated method detects activity of mouse neurons during specific behaviors, brainwide, at cellular resolution8 Jan 2015
Study identifies part of brain key to controlling attention7 Jan 2015
Potential treatment for Huntington's disease suggested by animal study 7 Jan 2015
Molecular network identified underlying autism spectrum disorders6 Jan 2015
Diverse autism mutations lead to different disease outcomes5 Jan 2015
Tiny gene fragments discovered that are linked to brain development and autism1 Jan 2015
Living with pets linked to stronger social skills in children with autism31 Dec 2014
Autism, cancer mutations found in unexplored regions of the genome31 Dec 2014
Scientists uncover molecular map of autism-related genes30 Dec 2014
Machine learning reveals unexpected genetic roots of cancers, autism and other disorders28 Dec 2014
'Master regulator' gene - long tied to autism disorders - stimulates other genes in early brain development23 Dec 2014
Therapeutic strategy identified that may treat a childhood neurological disorder - neurofibromatosis type 1 21 Dec 2014
Maternal exposure to air pollution linked to offspring autism risk18 Dec 2014
Memory formation in fragile X syndrome strengthened by multiple, short learning sessions15 Dec 2014
Brain study shows inflammation is a marker of autism11 Dec 2014
Preeclampsia during pregnancy and child's autism risk linked9 Dec 2014
Researchers pinpoint chemo effect on brain cells, potential link to autism 5 Dec 2014
Autism and gender nonconformity combined present unique challenges5 Dec 2014
Altered 'thought-markers' of autism identified by new tool4 Dec 2014
Minute movements of autistic children and their parents provide clue to severity of disorder3 Dec 2014
Why faces are seen differently in autism30 Nov 2014
Researchers identify drug target for behavioral symptoms of fragile X syndrome28 Nov 2014
Missing gene linked to autism26 Nov 2014
Mouse study identifies malfunctioning neural circuit at the root of motor impairments seen in autism26 Nov 2014
Findings presented at the Society for Neuroscience meeting by Johns Hopkins scientists24 Nov 2014
Serotonin's early role in the assembly of brain circuits21 Nov 2014
New insights that link Fragile X Syndrome (FXS) and Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD)18 Nov 2014
New player identified in brain function and memory 18 Nov 2014
Recognising changing facial expressions a problem in autism17 Nov 2014
Study shows how brain maps develop to help us perceive the world17 Nov 2014
New mouse model demonstrates how the brain develops in individuals with autism14 Nov 2014
New genetic links in autism13 Nov 2014
Clues to ADHD, autism and bipolar disorder offered by 'darting' mice 13 Nov 2014
New findings challenge assumptions about how information is encoded in the brain12 Nov 2014
Black, Hispanic children underrepresented in autism identification11 Nov 2014
Images captured of a protein complex that keeps hearts beating7 Nov 2014
Brain changes linked to prematurity may explain risk of neurodevelopmental disorders7 Nov 2014
Link discovered between oxytocin levels in blood and cerebrospinal fluid 6 Nov 2014
Researchers determine that brain anatomy differences between autistic and typically developing individuals are mostly indistinguishable 5 Nov 2014
Autism spectrum disorder: ten tips guidance article5 Nov 2014
Increased prevalence in autism diagnoses linked to reporting in Denmark3 Nov 2014
Unparalleled gene-sequencing study has identified dozens of high-confidence autism genes and hundreds more worthy of study31 Oct 2014
Children with autism benefit from 'integrated play groups'30 Oct 2014
Effective autism therapy taught to parents in group classes29 Oct 2014
Early exposure to air pollutants linked to autism risk23 Oct 2014
Pitt Public Health finds association between air toxics and childhood autism23 Oct 2014
Siblings of children with autism can show signs at 18 months22 Oct 2014
Gene duplications associated with autism evolved recently in human history22 Oct 2014
A tool enhances social inclusion for people with autism16 Oct 2014
Could a chemical in broccoli, sprouts help treat autism?14 Oct 2014
UCLA study finds link between neural stem cell overgrowth and autism-like behavior in mice12 Oct 2014
Early intervention program benefits young children with autism, improves parent-child interactions7 Oct 2014
Assessment protocol shows potential to diagnose autism in Tanzania3 Oct 2014
New learning mechanism for individual nerve cells3 Oct 2014
More sedentary behaviour found in children with autism30 Sep 2014
Interpregnancy intervals of less than 1 year or more than 5 years increases risk of autism26 Sep 2014
Boys with autism demonstrate surprising strength in grammar processing24 Sep 2014
Blocking one gene could aid social behavior in some forms of autism, IU scientists report24 Sep 2014
Autism diagnosis and classification could be improved by brainwave test24 Sep 2014
Brain differences in autistic males with early language delay23 Sep 2014
Maternal iron intake linked to offspring autism risk23 Sep 2014
Mutations in gene linked to brain development 'may be a cause of autism'22 Sep 2014
Symptoms of autism common in people with Jacobsen syndrome22 Sep 2014
Risk of adolescent mental health disorders affected by size at birth20 Sep 2014
Parts of the brain's cortex develop differently in people with schizophrenia18 Sep 2014
Discovery of "seesaw circuit" in brains of mice has implications for autism16 Sep 2014
Autism treatment in infancy 'may prevent further symptoms'9 Sep 2014
How do  hormones influence autism risk?9 Sep 2014
Autism medications' effectiveness may be reduced by poor stomach absorption of drugs5 Sep 2014
Researchers find possible root of autism in early cerebellum injury4 Sep 2014
Pilot study of socially-assistive robots that help children with autism to learn imitative behavior2 Sep 2014
Changes in ADNP gene may be among the most common causes of autism2 Sep 2014
Previously reported autism risk appears to be attributable to mother's prenatal antidepression, not medication28 Aug 2014
In stress hormone regulation, maturing brain flips function of amygdala23 Aug 2014
Children with autism 'have too many synapses in their brain'22 Aug 2014
Algorithm developed to uncover genomic insertions and deletions involved in autism, OCD19 Aug 2014
Sexual victimization a greater risk for adults with autism19 Aug 2014
How information flow in the brain is centrally regulated for sleep and wakefulness19 Aug 2014
Brain 'switchboard' identified that is important in attention and sleep, suggests new targets for treating psychiatric disorders18 Aug 2014
Protein implicated in Alzheimer's disease has important treatment potential in genetic form of epilepsy16 Aug 2014
Autism interventions should focus on identifying and harnessing the autistic child's strengths14 Aug 2014
Patients with autism spectrum disorder are not sensitive to 'being imitated'7 Aug 2014
In children with autism, blood-oxytocin levels found to be in normal range6 Aug 2014
Scientists unravel a neural circuit that could play an important role in autism4 Aug 2014
Biomedical discoveries accelerated by see-through organs and bodies4 Aug 2014
Timing of neuronal generation is linked to how neurons achieve specific brain wiring4 Aug 2014
Children with sensory processing disorders and autism have measureable brain differences1 Aug 2014
Adaptive behavior important in inherited intellectual disability syndrome1 Aug 2014
The autistic brain found to be less flexible at taking on tasks31 Jul 2014
Little-known supportive cells, astrocytes, essential for memory31 Jul 2014
Peers with strong language skills help preschoolers with special needs30 Jul 2014
Research suggests early warning sign for babies at risk of autism29 Jul 2014
Protein once seen as a promising anti-cancer compound helps to stabilize neural circuits28 Jul 2014
Deleting enzyme favorably impacts behaviors associated with Fragile X syndrome

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Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Dustcloud on January 17, 2015, 07:32:03 PM
Reply to Mile High,
I accept your point of view but have done a far bit of research myself into the latest immerging vaccines that are being suggested as necessary by the WHO etc.
Mile High, what you are discarding as dis-info about dangers of vaccines to a large extent now has become fact.
Of course if you wish to be naive and just accept the Bush Cabal's New World Order agenda then sweet dreams. On the other hand if you wish to actually inform yourself and become more aware of what the globalists have planned for you then check out the findings from these PhD's & Doctors:

http://andreaskalcker.com/en/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tWDi1-ETHI
http://youtu.be/PelTWCUmTsU

More food for thought about the big Pharma Industry  http://youtu.be/FrwZN1cPfX8

Sorry for the rude awakening.
Dustcloud
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 17, 2015, 10:24:13 PM
Quote from: MilesHigher
...
"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (http://www.cdc.gov/measles/) (CDC) calls measles, a virus that lives in the nose and throat, the “most deadly of all childhood rash/fever illnesses”. About 90% of those who are not immune will become infected if they come close to an infected person, according to the CDC."
...

As a child in the 1940s getting a case of
the Measles, the Mumps and Chicken Pox
were common experiences.

When children then were afflicted we were
Quarantined to our homes for several weeks
(like a vacation away from school), a Quarantine
sign was placed on the home to notify all passers
by and a Nurse came to our home daily to monitor
our progress.  The family Doctor would come by
each week for a checkup and then finally decide
when the Quarantine had served its purpose.

In those days Doctors made very affordable house
calls, Quarantines at home were very common and
there weren't any mass vaccinations.  We acquired
our immunity to disease the 'old fashioned' natural
way.

As children of about age 10 we did receive a Small Pox
vaccination on the arm and periodic 'shots' for Tetanus
as injuries demanded them from time to time.

Those were the days of the Ice Man, the Milk Man, the
Radio, the Movie Theater, the neighborhood Grocery
and the $1.00 per hour minimum wage.  A glass of Beer
at the neighborhood Beer Joint was 10 cents.  A bottle
of 'pop' for the kids was 5 cents there.

Life was good.  The Police were respectful and helpful
and violent crime was nearly unknown.

Fast Food was available at Drive-In establishments where
Car Hops both took and delivered orders to the car.  The
food was healthy and not loaded with additives and/or
animal medications.

We who are in our advanced years remember fondly
those days of the Good Life and wonder often how
on Earth things ever got so screwed up.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 17, 2015, 10:37:19 PM
ohh and as Sarc has said disregard the 167 peer revued papers mentioned in the MIT study

Actually what I said was...

Quote from: me
Well, as we all know you haven't read any of them.  So actually all you have is someone's claim that 167 papers exist.  I'd point out that what we are discussing are vaccines and unless you've described the character poorly.  None of them have to be about vaccines or any ingredient in them. 

For example let's just take the first one there.

Quote
Potential for early detection of autism offered by advanced 3-D facial imaging - 16 Jan 2015
I'd just point out a few things here:
a) This isn't a journal article.  It's an article about a journal article.
b) The journal article - which I read and you just mindlessly vomited up a web page which indirectly referenced it - isn't about early detection.  It's about subtyping autism based on 3d models.
c) It has absolutely, nothing whatsoever to do with vaccines.  Again because I read the paper and you didn't.

So are you claiming this was one of the illustrious and mythical 167?  If so, then you better hope the remaining 166 actually have something to do with vaccines. :)

If, out of that list you have anything you think is really strong evidence about vaccines and autism.  Then please by all means, point it out....idiot. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 17, 2015, 10:57:29 PM
Life was good.
Do you mean that racism was much more common, violent crime was more common or that women could be legally barred from practicing law or had trouble getting supervisory jobs (at least until the war) or that life expectancy was between one and two decades shorter than it is today?
Quote
violent crime was nearly unknown.
...but was actually slightly more common than today. :)
Quote
The food was healthy and not loaded with additives
Seriously?  The FDCA had only just been passed in 1938 and hardly had been enforced.   Manic depressives could self-medicate by drinking 7-up until 1948. :) 
Quote
We who are in our advanced years remember fondly
...and fabricate nice thoughts to help fuel your fantasies.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: ramset on January 17, 2015, 11:30:28 PM
Sarc
maybe your getting to close to your kissy mirror [the one on your desk with your lip prints and drool all over it...]
your glasses must be fogging up from such passionate moments of appreciation with yourself...


you have typed / Ranted MUCH more than the above quote..


and as I have stated before there are volumes of research going into this Epidemic ,
and your grandiose ramblings here are pathetic and similar to what would be expected from a very young or inexperienced man.
  certainly not from a person who is old enuff to have  children or considering having children.


 no you keep on Patting yourself on the back , maybe slow down a bit its getting breezy in here.
and Kissing yourself in the mirror and winking with that Thumbs up smile [yes we can see you]]


have a good life.


Chet
ps i will not be playing in your sand box anymore ,your  whole self Kissy mirror thing gives me the heeby Geebies

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 17, 2015, 11:47:57 PM
you have typed / Ranted MUCH more than the above quote..
I looked through the message history and that was the most recent quote I found about the 167 studies by me.  That was it. If there is some other point that I made that you wanted to discuss.  Then it probably would have been a good idea the MENTION IT SPECIFICALLY.  Rather than leave me to guess. No? 

Quote
and as I have stated before there are volumes of research going nto this Epidemic
There is a lot of research being done on autism.  However that's not what you were on about.  You were talking about the statements of a particular person, you stressed their credentials which, from where I stand do not give them any significant weight.  You then pointed to the 167 studies as support of this unqualified person's opinion.  More precisely you pointed to the number 167 and said that that many studies existed and they somehow supported your point.  Which at the time was about vaccines and autism but now?  Who knows.  It might be the effect of gamma rays on man-in-the-moon-marigolds.

Quote
grandiose ramblings here are pathetic and similar to what would be expected from a very young or inexperienced man.
Personally, I'd say it's people who swallow anything that fits with their preconceptions.  People like you.  Who are entirely unable or unwilling to READ A SINGLE STUDY and yet PREACH about the arrogance of someone who objects to the strength being placed on such categorically flimsy evidence.  People like that are those who are immature, ignorant or both.
Quote
ps i will not be playing in your sand box anymore
Well make sure you take your ball when you stomp off and go home...in a very mature way. :)
Quote
,your  whole self Kissy mirror thing gives me the heeby Geebies
Well it would bother me too if it wasn't entirely a fabrication of yours. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 18, 2015, 01:31:03 AM
Sarc
maybe your getting to close to your kissy mirror [the one on your desk with your lip prints and drool all over it...]
your glasses must be fogging up from such passionate moments of appreciation with yourself...

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo, now even Chet has succumbed to making bodily fluid references

What hath I wrought ??


Quote
...your grandiose ramblings here are pathetic and similar to what would be expected from a very young or inexperienced man.
  certainly not from a person who is old enuff to have  children or considering having children.

Well, let us all just hope he is in a committed gay relationship, or has a barren womb.


Quote
no you keep on Patting yourself on the back , maybe slow down a bit its getting breezy in here.

I think that may be just him farting...lets face it, all that hot air has to escape sometime.

Else, he'll bloat and blow up real good.


Quote
and Kissing yourself in the mirror and winking with that Thumbs up smile [yes we can see you]]

And we can also see the butt pirate working his back end.


Quote
Chet


Quote
ps ...,your  whole self Kissy mirror thing gives me the heeby Geebies

Does it qualify as multi-tasking if the butt pirate is cleaning up his back end at the same time ?

Regards...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 18, 2015, 06:09:09 AM
Quote
As a child in the 1940s getting a case of
the Measles, the Mumps and Chicken Pox
were common experiences.

When children then were afflicted we were
Quarantined to our homes for several weeks
(like a vacation away from school), a Quarantine
sign was placed on the home to notify all passers
by and a Nurse came to our home daily to monitor
our progress.  The family Doctor would come by
each week for a checkup and then finally decide
when the Quarantine had served its purpose.

In those days Doctors made very affordable house
calls, Quarantines at home were very common and
there weren't any mass vaccinations.  We acquired
our immunity to disease the 'old fashioned' natural
way.

As children of about age 10 we did receive a Small Pox
vaccination on the arm and periodic 'shots' for Tetanus
as injuries demanded them from time to time.

Those were the days of the Ice Man, the Milk Man, the
Radio, the Movie Theater, the neighborhood Grocery
and the $1.00 per hour minimum wage.  A glass of Beer
at the neighborhood Beer Joint was 10 cents.  A bottle
of 'pop' for the kids was 5 cents there.

Life was good.  The Police were respectful and helpful
and violent crime was nearly unknown.

Fast Food was available at Drive-In establishments where
Car Hops both took and delivered orders to the car.  The
food was healthy and not loaded with additives and/or
animal medications.

We who are in our advanced years remember fondly
those days of the Good Life and wonder often how
on Earth things ever got so screwed up.

That makes perfect sense. The IMMUNE system finds a way to keep a balance in the body. And the same goal is transferred to the WAY OF LIFE too. Since the way of life influences our way of thinking cause some thoughts are parasitic too. As a poor person only focuses on money and a rich person only focuses on 'luxuries' while a humble man (the cure) focuses in the middle.

We don't need vaccinations to get rid of 'rodents' in our houses. We just need to keep them out, as simple as that. As simple as fishing for a catfish or fishing for a whale. I know is hard to understand for most but it is the truth like you just explained. People do not need drugs nor vaccinations to get rid of a virus. We only need the SIMPLE way of teaching the person how they are transferred in the first place and engrave that in their head like they engrave that in our heads with commercials. REPETITION repetition repetition repetition till it is in our heads what will prevent the rodent getting inside your house.

Anyway, thanks for your story. A look to the past that it is our teacher for the future of society.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 18, 2015, 06:26:11 AM
That makes perfect sense. The IMMUNE system finds a way to keep a balance in the body. And the same goal is transferred to the WAY OF LIFE too. Since the way of life influences our way of thinking cause some thoughts are parasitic too. As a poor person only focuses on money and a rich person only focuses on 'luxuries' while a humble man (the cure) focuses in the middle.

We don't need vaccinations to get rid of 'rodents' in our houses. We just need to keep them out, as simple as that. As simple as fishing for a catfish or fishing for a whale. I know is hard to understand for most but it is the truth like you just explained. People do not need drugs nor vaccinations to get rid of a virus. We only need the SIMPLE way of teaching the person how they are transferred in the first place and engrave that in their head like they engrave that in our heads with commercials. REPETITION repetition repetition repetition till it is in our heads what will prevent the rodent getting inside your house.

Anyway, thanks for your story. A look to the past that it is our teacher for the future of society.

This from a fellow that does not know how JB Weld works.  It is an epoxy which is made up of 2 parts.  You mix them together and you can fix anything including cylinder heads on a car, a radiator, dishwasher motor fan, and you can also drill and tap it to make or fix threads.  I even used it to fix a motor mount on my jet ski once.  I also used it to repair a broken window closer bracket on my van's window.  Good as new and I saved $50 just on that one repair.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 18, 2015, 06:38:33 AM
Quote
I'll choose a half-sentence.  Why?  Because your posts aren't cogent.  They are barely English.  If you focused on one particular point - even acknowledging that said point does not represent the entire issue - you might be able to talk with people more.  Instead you sound like a child or someone with some kind of social disorder

I already figured you out and you are a FOLLOWER kissing pirates “BELIEFS”. There is nothing else to figure out from you but other than to support your “master”. Lol go read a book about the ALPHA and the BETA male.

Other than that we all have wondering thoughts and 100% socializing is mostly a distraction....so you must be the clown of the party like nikola tesla was? Socializing with you would not be brain pleasing.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 18, 2015, 06:52:56 AM
Quote
This from a fellow that does not know how JB Weld works.  It is an epoxy which is made up of 2 parts.  You mix them together and you can fix anything including cylinder heads on a car, a radiator, dishwasher motor fan, and you can also drill and tap it to make or fix threads.  I even used it to fix a motor mount on my jet ski once.  I also used it to repair a broken window closer bracket on my van's window.  Good as new and I saved $50 just on that one repair.

Quote
... you can fix anything...

lol, I've used it many times and also is an epoxy. But like I mentioned before it is not as strong as doing it right in the first place, JB weld is like 'being lazy' or using duct tape to repair stuff. The cold hard truth is that you don't know how to repair things PROPERLY since i'm 100% sure NASA would never repair their space ships with JB “WELD”.

That shows how much your mentality is “reliable” to your actions.

Are you trying to tell me that an “epoxy” weld is better than an actual metal to metal weld, or plastic to plastic weld?

I'm 100% sure if your dishwasher fan fix lol, gets a sudden stop via the “unexpected” it will become loose and you will use JB weld again to repair it. Lol

You know why that is funny? Cause I have been fixing things ever since I was little! I was born with that genetic “code”. And i've learned through out the years that JB weld and duct tape are for advertisers or IGNORANT people of what is really going on the reality of how anything works. Lol

But now you went out off topic in a thread regarding vaccines? is not that against the forum rules?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: ramset on January 18, 2015, 07:17:33 AM
Joel
quote
since i'm 100% sure NASA would never repair their space ships with JB “WELD”.
-------------------------------------------
actually remember that issue with the tiles  coming off the space shuttle [due to extreme heat
yes that was solved with an epoxy...
and yes epoxys will do most of what Bill has stated ,I spent many years of my life using epoxies on everything from seismic remediation of high rise buildings  to High speed rail attachments and other high stress high risk applications.
laguardia airports epoxy repair of the cantilevered peer expansion joint  of the main runway comes to mind .


however when it comes to tensile equivalency repairs of structural metals or exotic alloys[/size]
welding is always preferred [so far] however things are changing and soon we maybe "growing" these repairs as well as all manner of miracles yet to be seen in the 3D printing world.


times they are a changing....


respectfully


Chet
PS
and yes JB weld is amazing stuff in a pinch but the things you can do with a truly high quality epoxy wood amaze .
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 18, 2015, 07:31:35 AM
lol, I've used it many times and also is an epoxy.
...i'm 100% sure NASA would never repair their space ships with JB “WELD”.

I'm 100% sure if your dishwasher fan fix lol, gets a sudden stop via the “unexpected” it will become loose and you will use JB weld again to repair it. Lol

...JB weld and duct tape are for advertisers or IGNORANT people of what is really going on the reality of how anything works. Lol

Just for sh!ts and giggles, wooden it be funny if during the nigh when everyone is fast asleep, somebody JB Welded the arses of all the forum's trolls and shills ?

I wonder how much of a tongue lashing they'd all get before the arse kisser caught on that he'd been pranked ?


Quote
But now you went out off topic in a thread regarding vaccines? is not that against the forum rules?

Thats how trolls roll joel,
even a wanna be troll.

Regards...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 18, 2015, 07:42:05 AM
Thanks Chet.  I agree.

A funny story....

Back when I owned my machining company, my Dad was the Chief Engineer and we were working on a very special aerospace project that
required epoxying 2 pieces of ceramic together.  The choice of epoxy was critical so I asked my Dad about it and he consulted his Bell Labs phone directory
and made a call to a guy he knew.  He later told me this fellow recommended Armstrong C-4 and Activator W.  I asked my Dad if he was sure that this fellow knew what he was talking about, and he said "Bill, this is the guy that invented epoxy."  That was good enough for me, ha ha.

The really cool thing was, following this guy's instructions, which required using gravity (weight) during the critical setting phase that took place inside an oven,
the epoxy flowed so thin that when completed, you could not even measure it.  In other words, you take 2 blocks precision machined to .5000", epoxy them together as described, and then measure the total height and it was 1.0000"!  The guy said that when you can not measure the epoxy layer, that is the strongest possible bond you can get.  We tested this over and over and the ceramic material always gave way and not the joint.

Off topic for sure but, I still think it was pretty cool.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 18, 2015, 08:45:37 AM
Quote
actually remember that issue with the tiles  coming off the space shuttle [due to extreme heat
yes that was solved with an epoxy...
and yes epoxys will do most of what Bill has stated ,I spent many years of my life using epoxies on everything from seismic remediation of high rise buildings  to High speed rail attachments and other high stress high risk applications.
laguardia airports epoxy repair of the cantilevered peer expansion joint  of the main runway comes to mind .

Yes chet thanks for answering BUT we can both understand that was just a last desperate fix. I can also THINK of welding metal to metal as being a metal “epoxy”. All epoxies are not the same and the mere word of “epoxy” is just not strong enough but rather the last desperate measures.

Quote
however when it comes to tensile equivalency repairs of structural metals or exotic alloys[/size]
welding is always preferred [so far] however things are changing and soon we maybe "growing" these repairs as well as all manner of miracles yet to be seen in the 3D printing world.

Yes I understand, it all BOILS down to the molecular level. But it also has to do with understanding the past since MISTAKES MAKES PERFECTION. I don't know if I can explain myself right. It is bright as day in my mind. An 'epoxy' cannot replace the mother nature structural stregth. Epoxy is artificial and not as strong as the actual DNA encoded strands! Molecular 'level".

I don't know if I'm making myself clear here but we can do some tests if you are for it since facts speak better than words. We can conduct experiments and find a replacement for real life molecular strengths VS man made epoxy strength.

Then we can 100% know that “epoxy” is just not as strong as the real molecular level strength. In fact, welding two metals together, their weakest point is in the welding. Since that is just a repair. So we can all types of “welding” in a scale and see which one is the strongest of all! And i'm pretty sure JB weld is in the bottom of them all. Of course I understand that there are some 'epoxies' that work better than others, but they will NEVER be as strong as the actual metal, plastic, glass. Molecular 'level".

In the case of those tiles, most of the holding was also due to the INTENSE helping of the the REPULSION mostly than the jb weld. IOW, the "weld" was not the same as the other tiles where being held together. If that was 100% true, in the beginning, they did not "epoxy" the rest of the tiles did they? What I mean, where the rest of the tiles "epoxied" in?

I can go on and on and become an 'epoxy” expert and get paid to come up with a BETTER epoxy, but at the end of the day, the epoxy is still and epoxy.

Thanks for your thoughts chet! I like the way you didn't attack me. There is so much to be learned yet and so little time to argue about the present reality.

As a matter of fact, I find it that talking about 'epoxies' is childish when looking at the BIG PICTURE of life.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 18, 2015, 09:34:23 AM
Quote
Back when I owned my machining company, my Dad was the Chief Engineer and we were working on a very special aerospace project that
required epoxying 2 pieces of ceramic together.  The choice of epoxy was critical so I asked my Dad about it and he consulted his Bell Labs phone directory
and made a call to a guy he knew.  He later told me this fellow recommended Armstrong C-4 and Activator W.  I asked my Dad if he was sure that this fellow knew what he was talking about, and he said "Bill, this is the guy that invented epoxy."  That was good enough for me, ha ha.

Now I see where the 'love' for epoxy comes from. Father and son. Which is the 'epoxy' of sperm to a vagina lol...just a little inside joke. (well in my mind)

Dude, I don't mind hearing your stories at all! I welcome them and tell me how your thoughts came to be! It's all understandable and you deserve a cookie....but the ultimate goal is LIFE! To keep on living and keep on living. Plus since we are CIVILIZED animals, keep on fighting with each other. Nothing good comes from that but negative ENERGY! That or pockets full of money for the investors.

Quote
The really cool thing was, following this guy's instructions, which required using gravity (weight) during the critical setting phase that took place inside an oven,
the epoxy flowed so thin that when completed, you could not even measure it.  In other words, you take 2 blocks precision machined to .5000", epoxy them together as described, and then measure the total height and it was 1.0000"!  The guy said that when you can not measure the epoxy layer, that is the strongest possible bond you can get.  We tested this over and over and the ceramic material always gave way and not the joint.

Off topic for sure but, I still think it was pretty cool.

Hey cool guy, what makes you think that your “coolness” is the only cool? I have my own beliefs of cool that do not relate to epoxy what so ever cause I have other things to figure out. You don't even sound like an epoxy expert, you just sound like the guy whom taught you how “epoxy” works IS the expert! So I can picture myself you being amazed by others inventions only!

This ONLY implies that you are not EVEN an 'epoxy' expert but rather an 'groupie'. Or to be nicee, what you have learned from your PAST experiences.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 18, 2015, 03:47:33 PM
I already figured you out
The fact remains that what you write is barely cogent English.  I wonder if this is deliberate or if you simply don't understand how poorly you are communicating.  As i said, before my money is on "troll".  Like profitis your poor language tends to look a little forced. 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 18, 2015, 09:50:18 PM
More about the Flu Shots 'not working.' (http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/Health-News/flu-vaccine-effectiveness-cdc/2015/01/15/id/618803/?ns_mail_uid=6604460&ns_mail_job=1603977_01182015&s=al&dkt_nbr=kbc4x4ph)

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MileHigh on January 18, 2015, 10:08:33 PM
More about the Flu Shots 'not working.' (http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/Health-News/flu-vaccine-effectiveness-cdc/2015/01/15/id/618803/?ns_mail_uid=6604460&ns_mail_job=1603977_01182015&s=al&dkt_nbr=kbc4x4ph)

For a guy that I assume hates the political system, you sure as hell go to great lengths to doctor and spin information so that if people are too lazy to think then you just might win them over.

From the article (the first bloody sentence):

"More than  three-quarters of Americans who got this season's flu shot could get the  virus anyway, given a mismatch between the flu strains covered by the  shot and those actually causing illness in people, U.S. officials said."

Also:

""There  are some years when the virus drifts and the vaccine still provides  pretty good protection. This is not one of those years," he said."

And many people when they read things like this will invoke what I sometimes call, the "cry baby syndrome."   Waaa!  I expect people that give me government services to be perfect all the time.  Waaa!

If heaven forbid a real superbug breaks out akin to the 1918-1919 influenza pandemic that killed 20 million+ people, don't forget to register online for your appointment for your flu shot.  You might end up standing next to Captain Zero, you never know.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 18, 2015, 10:57:42 PM
don't forget to register online for your appointment for your flu shot.  You might end up standing next to Captain Zero, you never know.

...And if his eyes are glazed over and he has a dark brown smell about him, he's MilesHigh, and it may or may not be a flu shot line you're in.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 18, 2015, 11:29:35 PM
Miles Higher,

No, it is not a matter of 'hating' the political system;
like all systems it is capable of accomplishing either
good or bad for the people it purportedly 'serves.'

Even the people who acquire power and influence
within the system are not to be 'hated.'  In truth,
they cannot help that they are obsessed with Love
of Money and care not who they step on as they
'advance' in their chosen profession.

Here is a bit of insight  (http://www.tomatobubble.com/id574.html)into what the problem really
is.

Those who exhibit such unwholesome characteristics
are not to be 'hated' but rather, pitied.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 19, 2015, 03:06:51 AM
More about the Flu Shots 'not working.' (http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/Health-News/flu-vaccine-effectiveness-cdc/2015/01/15/id/618803/?ns_mail_uid=6604460&ns_mail_job=1603977_01182015&s=al&dkt_nbr=kbc4x4ph)
In what respect is this "more" than what has already been discussed?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 19, 2015, 06:56:13 AM
More about the Flu Shots 'not working.' (http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/Health-News/flu-vaccine-effectiveness-cdc/2015/01/15/id/618803/?ns_mail_uid=6604460&ns_mail_job=1603977_01182015&s=al&dkt_nbr=kbc4x4ph)

Wow that is really eye opening. No matter what these non-educated people about vaccinations believe and say, the facts ARE IN! This is a new study just done recently not 10 yrs ago! I like to look at the dates as a matter of looking for outdated facts jan 15 2015.

I mostly like to take things apart and study them in a scientific way based on my past experiences but words can also be taken apart and be studied in a scientific way based on past experiences!

Quote
More than three-quarters of Americans who got this season's flu shot could get the virus anyway, given a mismatch between the flu strains covered by the shot and those actually causing illness in people, U.S. officials said.

More that 3 twenty five cents? This should not be very shocking considering how the flu virus works for those nerds.

Quote
An interim CDC report found the shot was only 23 percent effective overall, a performance about in line with what the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention predicted last year, experts said.

I'm sure these experts where not milehigh nor sarkeizen nor pirate which I'm kinda insulted by that since they seem to know the cure but do not make their own vaccines!! /sarcasm.

Quote
At the time, CDC warned that the predominant flu virus, influenza A (H3N2), had "drifted" or changed genetically since the shot was made.

I already mentioned this in my broken English. The “flu shot” is only a shot to help the immune system to help the body of ONLY the PREDOMINANT flu virus strand ONLY. The virus “genetically” changes so fast that this is what happens. Hence, the best course of action is EDUCATION rather that flu shots!!! plain and simple...immune shot engineers can only cure the flu virus one the patient is infected ONLY. Allegedly.

Quote
Effectiveness varies widely by age, working best in young, healthy people and least well in the elderly, a pattern reflected in the report released Thursday.

This is very obvious for many years in nature. One also needs to understand how vaccines work in the first place blah blah blah....solution EDUCATION to avoid it in the first place. Every year, they ONLY make vaccines after people get sick in the first place! Yara yara yara. Tell me of a vaccine they make before a number of people get sick....= “ predominant flu”

Quote
It showed effectiveness against H3N2 viruses was highest - at 26 percent - among children aged 6 months to 17 years. It was roughly 12 percent effective in people 18-49 and 14 percent effective in those 50 and older, but those estimates were not statistically significant because there was too little data at this point in the flu season.

12% EFFECTIVE in people 18-49 lol. Not to mention the people that die from taking the flu shot....well, it comes to a point that your can see the smart intelligent more stupid than what they need to learn from mother nature.

I never take a flu shot because I always try to stay away from sick people. The times I get sick is when a stupid uneducated person coughs in my face while being sick or blocks his caugh with his palm and them shakes my hand. Stupidity kills more than EDUCATION. Though keeping people stupid makes the investors more money!!! blah blah blah. Everything is SOOO hard to figure out.

Right milehish, pirate, sarkeizen.... ::)


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 19, 2015, 12:58:06 PM
Wow that is really eye opening. No matter what these non-educated people about vaccinations believe and say, the facts ARE IN! This is a new study just done recently not 10 yrs ago! I like to look at the dates as a matter of looking for outdated facts jan 15 2015.
I've already explained what can be wrong with these estimates.  Most cases are not subtyped.
Quote
I mostly like to take things apart and study them in a scientific way
No, that's more like the opposite of what you do. :)
Quote
I already mentioned this in my broken English.
I'm not sure why trolls want to act like they don't know English. 
Quote
12% EFFECTIVE in people 18-49 lol. Not to mention the people that die from taking the flu shot
What percentage is that again?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MileHigh on January 19, 2015, 01:25:50 PM
For starters, if this year's vaccine was not that effective because of virus mutation, it does not mean your flu shot is going to harm you.  For the vast majority of people the effect will be nothing.  However, you end up having more antibody combinations in your body.  I am no medical expert but perhaps a "stockpile" of antibodies could help you with _future_ variations on viruses?

This is a purely hypothetical example:  If I have a choice between a 20% chance of death and a 0.000003% chance of death I am going to go for the 0.000003% chance of death.  I am also conscious of the fact that there is no  practical way to prevent yourself from coming in contact with an invisible virus.  Of course you can take perfectly reasonable common sense precautions.  The problem is that when you go to the supermarket you actually have to touch things.  Ain't real life a bitch.  Or change your body condom on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 20, 2015, 06:25:07 AM
Quote
I've already explained what can be wrong with these estimates.  Most cases are not subtyped.

I think you need to step down from your high horse and admit that vaccinations are not the cure for EDUCATION.

You may feel that you have this mentality of that SOME DAY I WILL MAKE A MAGIC PILL TO CURE THE WORLD DECEASES because that is what pays your bills, but that is not the absolute truth.

Very simple. There are two kids jimmy and diego.

I tell diego how to prevent the flu and how it is transferred.

You tell jimmy that he is better off with the flu shot.

By me educating diego how the flu virus gets inside the body, he has more “cure” for all year viruses flu strands that jimmy only being “protected” by the most common at the time....to add to that, you forget that a lot of people have to get sick in order to determined which one is the MOST COMMON!

So it is very clear that EDUCATING diego how the flu virus WORKS will have a greater inpact than trying to “make vaccines” for all flu viruses every year! YAWN!

Quote
No, that's more like the opposite of what you do.

Oh, “science” is very hard to do. Well let me write it down, do some graphs, compare stuff, and then come up with the most probable scenario. Do you believe that regular common sense does not work that way? We are all scientists in our brains!!!

Quote
I'm not sure why trolls want to act like they don't know English. 

my native language is Spanish and I know for a fact that I struggle to transfer my thoughts in Spanish and even have a harder time to transfer them in English. This is 100% facts!

I know English but I'm not an expert at transferring my electronic neuron pulses into English words. Wow, you are trying to say that i'm lying about that! That is not even a good insult bro.

Quote
What percentage is that again?

I don't know the percentage of people that die from taking the flu shot but there are people who die from it....even if I gave you a percentage you seem to not see the BIG PICTURE!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 20, 2015, 06:43:36 AM


my native language is Spanish and I know for a fact that I struggle to transfer my thoughts in Spanish and even have a harder time to transfer them in English. This is 100% facts!




Hechos al cien por cien ? ¿Te importaría publicar una fuente para esto, por favor ?

Gracias.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 20, 2015, 06:44:54 AM


I know English but I'm not an expert at transferring my electronic neuron pulses into English words.


Your english may not be perfect joel, but there is one english word you have mastered...that word is respect.

A word, which those who like to insult you for having a different opinion, seem to be totally unfamiliar with.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 20, 2015, 06:54:51 AM
Quote
Hechos al cien por cien ? ¿Te importaría publicar una fuente para esto, por favor ? Gracias ,

lol, Google translate is not that accurate, i read that in Spanish and does not make sense.

Well I'm Mexican if you want to dig deeper into the Spanish language i speak but then I'm sure you can't...

ohhh pirate, lol you are entertaining at least lol. If this was intended as to prove a point it was more funny than anything for me bro. lol

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 20, 2015, 07:03:05 AM
lol, Google translate is not that accurate, i read that in Spanish and does not make sense.

Well I'm Mexican if you want to dig deeper into the Spanish language i speak but then I'm sure you can't...

ohhh pirate, lol you are entertaining at least lol. If this was intended as to prove a point it was more funny than anything for me bro. lol

It was just a test to see if you were telling the truth about your language.  I had 2 years of Spanish in school and I have no idea what Google translate did to my question. (I can't read it either.)

If your language is really Spanish, then I apologize for any remarks I may have made making fun of your English.  Your English is actually pretty good considering.  It is certainly much better than my Spanish.

So, please accept my apology.

Thanks,

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 20, 2015, 07:42:44 AM
Quote
It was just a test to see if you were telling the truth about your language.  I had 2 years of Spanish in school and I have no idea what Google translate did to my question. (I can't read it either.)

One of the thoughts that will always stay with me for life is when I was being bullied. I did not understand the language the teachers where speaking to me, so I asked a Hispanic bilingual person next to me “how long does it take for you to learn English?” ...he told me that in one year I would learn English....now I see it obvious he was trolling me lol. And MAKES SENSE why his friends laughed too. In two years you cannot learn “full” English unless you are a prodigy = “I had 2 years of Spanish”....

Either way, to get back on point, would you rather get educated how the flu virus works or get a flu shot every year?



Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 20, 2015, 07:47:25 AM
One of the thoughts that will always stay with me for life is when I was being bullied. I did not understand the language the teachers where speaking to me, so I asked a Hispanic bilingual person next to me “how long does it take for you to learn English?” ...he told me that in one year I would learn English....now I see it obvious he was trolling me lol. And MAKES SENSE why his friends laughed too. In two years you cannot learn “full” English unless you are a prodigy = “I had to years of Spanish”....

Either way, to get back on point, would you rather get educated how the flu virus works or get a flu shot every year?

I don't take flu shots.  I have no medical plan and have not had a shot since 1976.  I wash my hands, take a lot of vitamin C and use oil of oregano when I start to feel like I am coming down with something.  I have not had the flu since 1976.

Bill

PS  I am crossing my fingers since I said this, I really do not want to get the flu.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 20, 2015, 08:01:54 AM
Quote
I have not had the flu since 1976.

You are shitting me right? Lol, just like you shit all the time with your answers....

Not trying to be an a-hole butt you find it easy to be one, and I already figured you out!  More EGO than KNOWLEDGE lol.

No flu virus since 1976? man the more I talk to you the more IGNORANT i find you, no disrespect, but "you are who you hang around with"...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 20, 2015, 03:09:24 PM
I think you need to step down from your high horse and admit that vaccinations are not the cure for EDUCATION.
I might be able to admit that if it was stated in English.  My knowledge of crazy-troll-speech-affectations is limited.

Quote
So it is very clear that EDUCATING diego how the flu virus WORKS will have a greater inpact than trying to “make vaccines” for all flu viruses every year!
Except that we already do educate people on limiting transmission.  However, even when people are very, very, very careful it still happens and it happens considerably less when we vaccinate. :)
Quote
Do you believe that regular common sense does not work that way?
Again attempting to translate from crazy-troll.  If what you mean is that people normally or reflexively think in a manner comparable with rigorous science.  The answer is absolutely not.  People have all sorts of biases that science simply can not have.  There have been all sorts of studies done on people's cognitive biases.
Quote
my native language is Spanish and I know for a fact that I struggle to transfer my thoughts in Spanish and even have a harder time to transfer them in English. This is 100% facts!
It may be but your errors are inconsistent.   This makes me think you are to some degree putting on some kind of show. 
Quote
I don't know the percentage of people that die from taking the flu shot but there are people who die from it..
...and the number of people who die from influenza...
Quote
the BIG PICTURE!
The fact that you can't do a simple risk/reward calculation kind of excludes you from having much to say about the big picture.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Dustcloud on January 20, 2015, 06:43:24 PM
Hold on for a second,
What the hell has this female mud wrestling got to do with vaccines ?
Furthermore what the hell has any of this got to do with Over Unity ???????????
Give me a break already  >:(
Dustcloud

If you want to really know watch this:

http://youtu.be/Gz_wWS1GMls
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 20, 2015, 09:09:57 PM
If you want to really know watch this:
Why do people insist on videos?  Seriously one of the absolute worst ways to disseminate information.  The first 8 minutes can be summed up:

- Trying to remember when they last talked, what day it was, describing the weather and a cow bell (3:10!)
- The swine flu has disappeared from the media, people no longer feel pressured to get vaccinated. 
- Some portion of people have taken the vaccine.
- Talking head seems to think this figure is very low and attributes this to information being shared about how the vaccine is worse than the disease and critical thinking and the examination of the facts.
- Some reference to the idea that the government thought that people wouldn't take this vaccine.
- Reference to seeeeeecret government plans on the internet. 
- More vague references to people's decision not to take the vaccine was really a rational response to the information out there.

Just speaking from the US.  The H1N1 vaccination coverage is probably just around or just under 30%.  The seasonal vaccination rate for that year (and most years onward) was about 40%.   

So a) This person doesn't know what they're talking about with regard to actual coverage and b) considering that people needed to take a second vaccine (which in some cases was difficult to get early in the season) a drop in 10% isn't exactly large.

Can anyone who has the patience for this tell me if there's anything non-stupid in the rest.  I have some video games which aren't going to play themselves.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 20, 2015, 10:56:15 PM
Hold on for a second,
What the hell has this female mud wrestling got to do with vaccines ?
Furthermore what the hell has any of this got to do with Over Unity ??? ??? ??? ??
Give me a break already  >:(

If you want to really know watch this:

http://youtu.be/Gz_wWS1GMls (http://youtu.be/Gz_wWS1GMls)

Fair question.  When it comes to 'over-unity' the human body
must be at the top of the list.  We have yet to produce any sort
of machine which even approaches the incredible efficiency of
the living body of man.  When it is in good health, that is.

The material presented in the video is pertinent.  I wonder
though if Jane and Bill Ryan understand the vast interconnectedness
of the 'shadow government' which is pushing the New World
Order?  It has acquired so much power, wealth and influence
that it may be beyond any hope of dissolution.  At least, by any
effort of the People.

It will in Truth be overcome and destroyed - in its due time which
is rapidly approaching.


Quote from: Sark-Eizen
Why do people insist on videos?  Seriously one of the absolute worst ways to disseminate information.
...

Those with a Love of Truth will endure nearly
any video which brings substance to the quest.
Most videos offer considerably more edification
than your diatribes and whine-rants.

Video games eh?  No wonder then, that answers
the question!

 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 21, 2015, 12:48:27 AM
Those with a Love of Truth will endure nearly any video which brings substance to the quest.
LOL.  Uh except that your criteria is only available post-hoc.  Which is typical of someone who doesn't think through what they're saying. :) :) :)
Quote
Most videos offer considerably more edification than your diatribes and whine-rants.
Must be getting to you if I have you breaking character. :) :)  Anyway as usual you assert something you can't know.
Quote
Video games eh?  No wonder then, that answers the question!
You need to actually pose a question before you use that idiom. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 21, 2015, 01:17:10 AM
:)  Anyway as usual you assert something you can't know.

Yeah, SeaM...next you'll be claiming that vaccines are safe and effective.

"...something you can't know"...without first providing accurate information, of course.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 21, 2015, 01:41:34 AM
You are shitting me right? Lol, just like you shit all the time with your answers....

Not trying to be an a-hole butt you find it easy to be one, and I already figured you out!  More EGO than KNOWLEDGE lol.

No flu virus since 1976? man the more I talk to you the more IGNORANT i find you, no disrespect, but "you are who you hang around with"...

What part of "I have not had the flu since 1976" means I am shitting you?  I got the flu shot because it was free on campus and that is the last one I have had.  No flu since then.  (Not claiming that that shot had anything to do with it)  I am fortunate to have been very healthy thus far in my life.  I have not seen a Dr. in over 20 years also.  Maybe it's the bourbon?

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 21, 2015, 02:18:51 AM
Quote from: Pirate88179
...
I am fortunate to have been very healthy thus far in my life.  I have not seen a Dr. in over 20 years also.  Maybe it's the bourbon?

That is entirely possible!  It has been well established
that those people who are content, have an optimistic
outlook, maintain a low stress lifestyle and imbibe of
alcoholic refreshments daily generally are quite a lot
healthier than those who are ensnared by the Rat-Race
and all that it entails within the MATRIX.

Goodonya!  Bottoms up!  Knock-er-back!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 21, 2015, 02:24:21 AM
Quote from: Sark-Eizen
...
You need to actually pose a question before you use that idiom. :)

Hmmm.  I suppose you missed the question
which you hinted at:  "What could possibly be
the reason for Sark's Arrested Development and
Unusually High Degree of Establishment Gullibility?" ???

Video Games covers that nicely. ;)

You may return to your Play-Time. 8) :) :o ::)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 21, 2015, 03:06:31 AM
Hmmm.  I suppose you missed the question which you hinted at
"Hinted at" is used incorrectly.  It implies intent of the subject.  Since I implied that you asked no question.  I'm clearly not hinting at any question.  You could say "You missed the question which I hinted at". :)  Just trying to give you a hand when you're not taking like a dime-store mystic.
Quote
Video Games covers that nicely. ;)
LOL.  What about the jitterbug granddad?  Will that really turn us into reefer addicts like minister Jones says?  Is rock and roll really the devils music?

Sadly I don't have enough time to play video games with any regularity.  However they are preferable to listening to vapid ramblings of someone who can't even get the simplest of facts correct.  Then embellishing them with ridiculous hyperbole.  Again if there's some clear strong piece of evidence there.  Please point it out.  Since you can't - isn't that a sign that playing games was a better use of anyones time? :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 21, 2015, 03:31:01 AM
Is rock and roll really the devils music?


Well, its certainly satan worshiping pedophile music these days though, isn't it ?

 
Quote
Sadly I don't have enough time to play video games with any regularity.  However they are preferable to listening to vapid ramblings of someone who can't even get the simplest of facts correct.  ...- isn't that a sign that playing games was a better use of anyones time? :)

Sadly, what does it say about human(I think) when they wood spend their time..."listening to vapid ramblings of someone who can't even get the simplest of facts correct"...to the extent that they..."don't have enough time to play video games with any regularity"...which they just stated they wood prefer to do ??

It begs the question...then what are you doing wasting his time...unless perhaps he's not wasting it, but getting paid for it...just sayin'.

Psst..i think he may have me on ignore, so this shouldn't upset him...don't anybody let the troll outa the bag...so to speak.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 21, 2015, 04:41:50 AM
Unusually High Degree of Establishment Gullibility?
This is kind of interesting.  So somehow I'm just believing what "the establishment" says.   Well again, I'm much closer to believing that SeaMonkey now being just a plain old troll like Cap-mo-ron.  See the term "establishment" doesn't actually have a useful definition - which means of course it can mean anything SM wants - although I highly doubt she's thought it through that far.  More likely it's just like "shill" - a generic insult - it doesn't mean anything in and of itself.

See if SM was right she would be able to produce quote after quote of me saying something is true or not true purely on the basis that someone said it.  However that's really going to be hard to do.  When I'm talking about vaccines I'm saying nothing different than the vast majority of studies which publish their methods and data.

If I agree with views that SM ad-hoc constructs as "establishment" in order to support his delusion/trolling it's just because the people behind those positions provide high-quality evidence.  The sources SM cites provide moron-level evidence.  So if SM wants to pretend that I'm under someones influence it doesn't seem for any other reason than I want good evidence and he wants evidence which confirms what he already believes.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 21, 2015, 05:01:54 AM
It...sure...looks...like...somebody...else...is...pretending...to...have...me...on...ignore.

The other one has been spotted on numerous occasions in the vicinity of the hind quarters of the one getting paid for his time here.

--Just sayin'

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 21, 2015, 05:28:13 AM
Sark,

"Establishment" is 60s jargon much used by the
infamous Hippies of Haight and Ashbury (https://duckduckgo.com/l/?kh=-1&uddg=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FHaight-Ashbury) fame. 8)

Anti-Establishment was the sought after status
amongst  those amazing youngsters of that era. ;)

In today's lingo 'anti-establishment' would be
equivalent to 'conspiracy theorist.' :o

The 60s were GREAT.  Too bad you weren't there. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 21, 2015, 05:35:31 AM
"Establishment" is
...whatever goes against your pre-existing beliefs. Yeah I dig. 8)

Kind of telling that you're not really interested in talking about what position has the best evidence.  :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 21, 2015, 06:09:29 AM
Quote from: Sark-Eizen
...
Kind of telling that you're not really interested in talking about what position has the best evidence.  :)

Fear not;  as you continue on into adulthood that
dilemma will be self-resolving.  Experience is one
helluva teacher. ;)

Eat well, get plenty of sunshine, walk to and from
school and avoid vaccinations then you'll grow into
a strong and healthy specimen. ;D

Oh yeah;  don't cheat.  Never permit others to bail
you out or otherwise deprive you of the full range
of experiential learning.  The 'school of hard knocks'
is the best. 8)

AR

A more colorful accounting of Haight Ashbury. (http://www.extranomical.com/HTML_PAGES/HAIGHT_ASHBURY.htm)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 21, 2015, 10:02:20 AM
Quote
I might be able to admit that if it was stated in English.  My knowledge of crazy-troll-speech-affectations is limited.

I don't even know what your “knowledge” about medicine is but you have to understand that dinosaurs have been living longer then us with out vaccinations?

And that the experience/education is more VALUABLE than ignorance.

Every vaccinations has a side effect! Because the “doctors” do not really know how sub-atomic viruses work. I don't know if you know this but the flu shot is just a semi-dead flu virus strand being injected in the body. Semi-dead means the human body will be able to detect it and since it's half dead, it is expected that the human immune system will have no trouble using it's defense cells to over take it, hence become IMMUNNE.  Regarding the nasal “flu shot”, it is the same virus strand semi-dead but it is more alive than with the flu shot. That is because the nasal is more for healthy people. Blah blah blah.

Nothing is hard to understand once you do your search!

Now, we can understand:

1- the flu shot is protecting you from the PREDOMINANT flu virus strand ONLY.
2- the flu shot is just injecting you the VIRUS half dead to make it easier on the body to become IMMINUNE to it. Plus the shot has some enhancers for the immune system too...don't know what those enhancers are.
3- people who take the shot can still get sick BECAUSE the flu shot is only “protecting” you from the PREDOMINANT VIRUS. And if we look deeper, what some may call call predominant may not even be that predominant...yara yara yara.

The “vaccination” for the flu virus is EDUCATION! Since that is how EVOLUTION WORKS....where  EDUCATION is learning. All cells learn! Even your skin cells learn! The skin cells can repair themselves up to a limit and doctors know this. A simple paper cut will heal your skin with no stitches. And 2” cut is harder to heal but it will eventually as soon as it does not get infected. To prevent infection (we have viruses in our bodies 24/7) the faster one closes the door, the less chance of an infection...blah blah blah.

But I'm sure you already knew this?

Quote
Except that we already do educate people on limiting transmission.  However, even when people are very, very, very careful it still happens and it happens considerably less when we vaccinate.

Do you even meet people in real life?

The majority are soooo stupid and do not even understand how viruses get spread out! An STD can be transferred via a hand shake or via a toilet too.

In the USA, we have sick days that are like 3 per year, from my experience. That is so stupid because they only think about GREED.

Show me the statistics of how many people go to work sick and show me how many people that go to work sick CONTAMINATE OTHERS! You don't even think that far which really makes you sound like a not very intelligent person. Tell me how many people at work get others the flu virus? I know from watching with my own eyes, that GREED makes people go to work even if sick and the flu virus loves it because it gets spread around. Then the company owners bitch about why others that get infected get sick but their stupidity shows that they only think about money!

How have you educated people on limiting transmission? Are you living in a cave by yourself? Show the facts!

Quote
Again attempting to translate from crazy-troll.  If what you mean is that people normally or reflexively think in a manner comparable with rigorous science.  The answer is absolutely not.  People have all sorts of biases that science simply can not have.  There have been all sorts of studies done on people's cognitive biases.

I would never disagree with a righteous person! But you have to see all the suffering first to see the real truth. You seem to not being taking in consideration all the suffering around the world?

And science has no BIAS....lol, I'm 100% sure that I can study and learn what you have studied and surpass you because it's all a matter of learning. Is not like what you have learned some one else cannot learn!

The IMPORTANT part is that some people see the future. And look at things from different angles. YOU seem to believe that you are some type of “special” person that I'm wrong and you are always 100% correct...you keep on calling me a troll which obviously i'm not trolling here but DEBATING only!

Quote
...and the number of people who die from influenza...

Oh dear, I'm sure it's in the thousandths. Well, let me see, mostly from the weak immune system disorders and from the elderly?

But i'm pretty sure you are not even thinking from a 360* angle.


 
 

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 21, 2015, 02:30:49 PM
Fear not;
Awww...it's the "I'm going to avoid answering the question but pretend that I speak from some higher level of experience" troll.  It's cute!

The problem still remains.  The highest quality evidence appears to come from my position and only the lowest from yours (or what I can only guess what your position may be from things you've posted).  You are effectively demanding that people take your views on faith. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 21, 2015, 03:14:35 PM
I don't even know what your “knowledge” about medicine is but you have to understand that dinosaurs have been living longer then us with out vaccinations?
Again, I don't speak troll very well.  Are you trying to say that a dinosaurs lifespan is longer than a humans or that they existed as a species for longer then we did.

Quote
Every vaccinations has a side effect!
Every action has an effect.  Even inaction.  So refusing a vaccination has a side effect of making you more likely to get a disease.
Quote
“doctors” do not really know how sub-atomic viruses work.
There are "sub-atomic viruses"?  Who knew?  Do you mean you don't know how they work at a sub-atomic level?  Doubtful but we do know quite a lot about how they work at an atomic level and an enormous amount about how they work at the cellular level.

Quote
I don't know if you know this but the flu shot is just a semi-dead flu virus
The word we tend to use is "inactivated" which means dead.  However since antibodies look for the "shape" of the virus (I'm oversimplifying here a bit) it will cause the body to produce antibodies for the live virus.  Enough for someone who comes in contact with the virus to be asymptomatic or sometimes merely have a mild case.  The nasal vaccine is a "attenuated" virus which means that the virus is still live and capable of infection but greatly weakened.  This is similar to the inoculation done for small pox via cow pox.

Quote
1- the flu shot is protecting you from the PREDOMINANT flu virus strand ONLY.
Absolutely wrong.  Antibodies are simply not that specific - if you read Sea Monkey's post about the scary shadow government having a flu vaccine which covers 100% of the flu.  While he is an idiot and incorrect there are antibodies which attack more broadly.   Another example is the varicella vaccine which has been shown to provide protection to people with the herpes virus.
Quote
2- the flu shot is just injecting you the VIRUS half dead to make it easier on the body to become IMMINUNE to it. Plus the shot has some enhancers for the immune system too...don't know what those enhancers are.
Unless you are taking the nasal vaccine.  You are getting a virus that is all dead.  Vaccines contain adjuviants which make the body make more antibodies than they usually would.
Quote
3- people who take the shot can still get sick BECAUSE the flu shot is only “protecting” you from the PREDOMINANT
Yes people can still get sick but not for the reason you stated.  See above.
Quote
The “vaccination” for the flu virus is EDUCATION! Since that is how EVOLUTION WORKS....where  EDUCATION is learning. All cells learn! Even your skin cells learn! The skin cells can repair themselves up to a limit and doctors know this. A simple paper cut will heal your skin with no stitches. And 2” cut is harder to heal but it will eventually as soon as it does not get infected. To prevent infection (we have viruses in our bodies 24/7) the faster one closes the door, the less chance of an infection...blah blah blah.
This needs to be translated into English.

Quote
The majority are soooo stupid and do not even understand how viruses get spread out! An STD can be transferred via a hand shake or via a toilet too.
Exceptionally unlikely - especially with a handshake.
 
Quote
How have you educated people on limiting transmission?
In our workplace, in subways and trains.  There are all sorts of signs educating people on proper hygiene.  We provide hand-sanitizer in the office. Children from kindergarten up are educated on hand sanitation.  Schools have procedures in place to allow them to isolate and send kids home if they think they are ill.

However you can do this all you want.  The problem isn't greed it's just that viruses are infectious even when you are asymptomatic.  Furthermore outside of wearing protective gear everything you do isn't 100% (protective gear isn't 100% either as we learned with the ebola outbreak) furthermore because your immune system is, through constantly never coming into contact with viruses is now much, much, much more likely to get a disease when you slip up.

Which is why vaccines save many, many, many, many more lives than they ever harm.

Quote
And science has no BIAS....lol
People have biases.  Math doesn't.  Sorry. 
Quote
I'm 100% sure that I can study and learn what you have studied and surpass you because it's all a matter of learning.
No, it's a matter of being not 100% sure. :)  Something you don't seem capable of learning. :)

Quote
YOU seem to believe that you are some type of “special” person that I'm wrong and you are always 100% correct
You're only wrong about the things I've mentioned you're wrong about.  For all I know you're right about pumping gas or serving fries or whatever you do from day to day.  The only person who uses the phrase "100% correct" to describe themselves is you. :)
Quote
you keep on calling me a troll
Because that's what you appear to be.  You don't show any capacity to consider yourself incorrect in even the smallest thing. :)

Quote
I'm sure it's in the thousandths
About 53,000 in 2010.  It varies the number of vaccine preventable deaths per year is also in the thousands.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Dustcloud on January 21, 2015, 04:06:01 PM
To Sea Monkey,
Regarding the New World [Dis][/Order], yes Bill Ryan is one the worlds leading researchers. His current website is going through an upgrade but you can find a whole lot of interesting stuff here on Project Avalon forum and also  Kerry Cassidy's Project Camelot
Cheers Dustcloud

http://projectavalon.net
http://projectcamelotportal.com
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 21, 2015, 04:23:24 PM
To Sea Monkey,
Regarding the New World [Dis][/Order], yes Bill Ryan is one the worlds leading researchers. His current website is going through an upgrade but you can find a whole lot of interesting stuff here on Project Avalon forum and also  Kerry Cassidy's Project Camelot
Cheers Dustcloud

http://projectavalon.net
http://projectcamelotportal.com
That was awesome.  I especially like the stuff about Raptors walking among us.  It reminds me of reading "The jet propelled couch" where a delusional confabulated all these grand interstellar stories to the point that the psychiatrist was almost convinced.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Dustcloud on January 21, 2015, 05:12:07 PM
to sarkeizen
You reckon these people are just 'takin' the piss'? Why would they spend half there lives researching it if it hasn't affected them and obviously thousands of others as well. If you just stick your head in the sand the NWO is likely to aim for the but... :o
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 21, 2015, 05:26:04 PM
You reckon these people are just 'takin' the piss'? Why would they spend half there lives researching it if it hasn't affected them and obviously thousands of others as well.
So your assertion is that if some group of people believe something it is unlikely to be untrue if they reach a certain size and appear to be sincere.  So if a few thousand people believe the earth is flat and research that.  Did that make the earth flat?  If a few thousand people believe the universe was sneezed out of the nose of the great Arkleseizure and live in perpetual fear of "the coming of the great white handkerchief" is that true too?
Quote
If you just stick your head in the sand the NWO is likely to aim for the but... :o
Well if you listen to people here.  I'm more likely to be one of the people on top of the NWO.  So wouldn't it be better not to piss me off? :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 21, 2015, 06:14:01 PM
or even more to the point...what about the thousands of people sincerely researching things that are contrary to Project Camelot like vaccine effectiveness and safety.  How is that large group of sincere people wrong and your smaller group of sincere people right?

They all have interests, people who run websites dedicated to showing the truth about vaccine harm.  Have a clear strong interest (probably stronger than any tangential pharma company tie for a researcher) in keeping their ideas alive.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 21, 2015, 08:17:42 PM
Quote from: Sark-Eizen
...
The problem still remains.  The highest quality evidence appears to come from my position and only the lowest from yours (or what I can only guess what your position may be from things you've posted).  You are effectively demanding that people take your views on faith. :)

Whatever 'problem' you perceive exists only within
your imagination.  There are no demands being made
that anyone accept anything; even by 'faith.'

Adults have the ability to process 'information' as
they desire and to whatever extent they deem
necessary or adequate.  'Spoon Feeding' may be a
requisite characteristic of the Totalitarian Establishment
but while some measure of Freedom still exists the
preferred modality is that each Person think for themselves.

Standing on one's own two feet without the 'crutch'
of Media Administered Propaganda is becoming a rare
state of existence.

But then again, as you mature and acquire wisdom
you'll begin to notice these things. ;)

For the Adults or the 'adult minded' who wish to
know and understand more:

Rethinking Polio (http://liamscheff.com/2011/02/rethinking-polio/)

Hugs are incredibly healthy
 (http://earthweareone.com/hugs-the-ultimate-mind-body-medicine/)
The healing power of touch (http://www.sunwarrior.com/news/the-power-of-touch/)

Our modern World is very, very sick.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 21, 2015, 09:26:46 PM
Whatever 'problem' you perceive exists only within your imagination.
Sadly no.
Quote
There are no demands being made that anyone accept anything
Wrong! You just made it clear that because I don't accept your views you consider me to: "Unusually High Degree of Establishment Gullibility" but all you offer is poor evidence and your urging...and your derogatory labeling because I don't accept those two things. :) As well as aspersions to my maturity. Vague criticisms of my leisure activities. The list goes on and on and on and on :).  The only thing you don't offer is good reason to accept your beliefs. :)

See I look at evidence and examine it rationally based on having far more knowledge of hypothesis testing that you do.  So far the evidence you present is so poor I have to assume you are either deliberately trolling or you're just terribly uneducated. :)  However that doesn't stop the labeling.  You won't even admit that what you provide is moronically poor evidence.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 21, 2015, 10:45:11 PM
Quote from: Sark-Eizen
Sadly no.Wrong! You just made it clear that because I don't accept your views you consider me to: "Unusually High Degree of Establishment Gullibility" but all you offer is poor evidence and your urging...and your derogatory labeling because I don't accept those two things. :) As well as aspersions to my maturity. Vague criticisms of my leisure activities. The list goes on and on and on and on :) .  The only thing you don't offer is good reason to accept your beliefs. :)
...

Nay, it is not about accepting 'my views.'  It is much
more about what you consider to be 'credible evidence.'
Your seeming inability to ponder food for thought which
originates from sources other than those which support
the propagated 'Official Story Line.'  Unless the 'evidence'
is provided by The Establishment it seems that you deem
it to have no value and therefore unworthy of thoughtful
consideration.

Those are the qualities of a rather immature being.  Or
perhaps, saying it another way, an inexperienced being.
A youthful outlook which places far too much dependence
upon the perceived credibility of government sponsored
'talking head' deceivers.

Truth may come at us from very unusual locations and
unsuspected personages.  Discernment is a skill which
develops with experience and age.  At some point in time
you too may break out of your rigid cell which limits your
input filter to 'Official State Provided Propaganda Only.'

BT


 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 21, 2015, 11:28:13 PM
Nay, it is not about accepting 'my views.'  It is much more about what you consider to be 'credible evidence.' Your seeming inability to ponder food for thought
Same thing.  You admit that your derogatory labeling and urging is because I wont' accept your views on evidence and food for thought.  Glad you can fess up to your abusive nature. :)
Quote
Unless the 'evidence' is provided by The Establishment it seems that you deem it to have no value
Again with the derogatory labeling.
Quote
Those are the qualities of a rather immature being.
More derogatory labeling.
Quote
dependence upon the perceived credibility of government sponsored
'talking head' deceivers.
Still more derogatory labeling.
Quote
Discernment is a skill which develops with experience and age.
on and on it goes...
Quote
and therefore unworthy of thoughtful consideration.
I've made my position on evidence pretty clear.  It is independent of the source, it's based on math and the principles of hypothesis testing.  If, in your rather jaundiced and prejudicial view that means I appear to lean in some arbitrarily defined direction.  Then perhaps it's better if you ask yourself: "Why is the evidence from sarkeizens sources clear, discloses method, often provides raw data, correctly cites other work, uses math in accordance with probability theory and fits with other areas of biology and physics...and why does my evidence primarily eschew those principles in favor of what amounts to a shit sandwich which I insist other eat or I'll slap them with derogatory labels."
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 22, 2015, 03:46:34 AM
Sark,

You may do as you please - no demands are being made
nor is any particular behavior sought.  Just being yourself
is fine and good. ::)

Our critiques regarding your demonstrated attitude may
seem harsh to your sensitivities and we do admit they may
be hyperbolic and are made none-the-less in the spirit of
good natured 'ribbing.'  You may choose to own them if you
desire. 8)

We still find your emotional appeals for intercourse to be
lame and un-appealing.  Although, it is great fun to see
how you squirm. ;)

What you obviously need is a sparring partner of the likes
of Perry Mason. :)

More bad news about Roundup Herbicide. (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/global-fatal-kidney-disease-linked-to-roundup-herbicide)

Our World is becoming a very deadly place. :'(
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 22, 2015, 04:10:32 AM
You may do as you please - no demands are being made
Except if I want to be treated as not someone who's not "Unusually High Degree of Establishment Gullibility" then I have to accept your views on evidence.  That's what you said. 
Quote
Our
You are plural all of a sudden?
Quote
critiques regarding your demonstrated attitude may seem harsh to your sensitivities
Ah that was expected troll technique#2.  Sorry if you didn't quite understand.  This isn't isn't about you making me (or anyone else) feel bad.  I don't think you could do that if you tried. What this is about is pointing out the demands you are making. 

See if I, or any other person wants to be treated like a rational person by you.  You demand that we accept a model of evidence that is, I'm sure you'll agree exceptionally stupid. :)  Right?

All I'm doing is stating facts as you have clearly dispensed them. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 22, 2015, 05:38:39 AM
Sark,

We have always been and remain plural. ::) 8)

You're not doing too badly in this present
'test of your wits.'  Somewhat desperate but
not too badly. :o ;)

Things are sure to get worse for those who
wish to be healthy. (http://www.globalresearch.ca/big-pharmas-diabolical-plan-to-destroy-the-vitamin-herbal-supplement-industry/5425769)

Dustcloud,

Thanks for the links. (http://overunity.com/15147/vaccinations-recent-developments/msg434078/#msg434078)

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 22, 2015, 07:21:57 AM
Ah that was expected troll technique#2.

Now, don't anybody start thinking that I am him, expressing my sinister side.
 

Quote
See if I, or any other person wants to be treated like a rational person by you.

Safe to say he speaks only for himself in that regard...generally, he speaks for the highest bidder.
 

Quote
You demand that we accept a model of evidence that is, I'm sure you'll agree exceptionally stupid. :)  Right?

As opposed to his exceptionally non existent model of evidence.

This wood be an excellent opportunity to present his evidence that vaccines are safe and effective.


Quote
All I'm doing is stating facts as you have clearly dispensed them. :)

He states rhetoric and has presented -Z-ro evidence (appropriately placed pun).

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 22, 2015, 12:39:27 PM
You're not doing too badly in this present 'test of your wits.'
If pretending you are someone who's approval is being sought is what makes you feel good.  Then I guess that's what you need to do to get through the day.
But it is a simple fact, and you appear to agree that you are requiring people to accept your nonsense positions.  If, that is they want to be treated like a rational person by you.  Again just stating the facts.
Quote
Somewhat desperate
LOL, if you say so jack.
Quote
Things are sure to get worse for those who
wish to be healthy. (http://www.globalresearch.ca/big-pharmas-diabolical-plan-to-destroy-the-vitamin-herbal-supplement-industry/5425769)
I think I read a review of that article (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWqKiqTfXuA&t=3s)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: kEhYo77 on January 22, 2015, 07:36:39 PM
http://vaccineimpact.com/2015/why-are-so-many-healthy-people-dying-from-the-flu-after-receiving-the-flu-shot/ (http://vaccineimpact.com/2015/why-are-so-many-healthy-people-dying-from-the-flu-after-receiving-the-flu-shot/)



Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Dustcloud on January 22, 2015, 08:12:16 PM
Reply to sarkeizen
Its plainly obvious that your reason for this endless spouting about nothing is that your playing the part of the NWO debunker. Were you paid to waste peoples time here? I suppose you watch Fox News and believe every word that Hanity or O'Reilly vomit to the public ????
Sorry this is just too pathetic. I'm switching to something intelligent for a change.
>>> Alex Jones >>> Ahhh  TRUE news
 8)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 22, 2015, 09:44:31 PM
Quote from: Sark-Eizen
If pretending you are someone who's approval is being sought is what makes you feel good.

Interesting take.  You're admitting then that you
are an 'approval seeker?' :'( :-\ :(

How sad.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 22, 2015, 09:47:12 PM
Its plainly obvious that your reason for this endless spouting about nothing
Talking about raptors running the world is probably closer to nothing than what I am talking about.  Which with respect to your post was logic.
Quote
Were you paid to waste peoples time here?
Yes, I was paid by the "society for people who like to talk sense" ::) to lecture you on the merits of having a more consistent way of thinking. 
Quote
I'm switching to something intelligent for a change.
>>> Alex Jones >>> Ahhh  TRUE news
So are you just trolling then?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 22, 2015, 09:53:57 PM
Interesting take.
It's not a take.  It's the facts as you have stated them. If anyone wants to be treated like a rational person by you.  You demand that they take your beliefs on faith.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 22, 2015, 09:56:38 PM
http://vaccineimpact.com/2015/why-are-so-many-healthy-people-dying-from-the-flu-after-receiving-the-flu-shot/ (http://vaccineimpact.com/2015/why-are-so-many-healthy-people-dying-from-the-flu-after-receiving-the-flu-shot/)
So what parts of that article do you think are very strong evidence against vaccine safety?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 22, 2015, 10:55:58 PM
Quote from: Sark-Eizen
It's not a take.  It's the facts as you have stated them. If anyone wants to be treated like a rational person by you.  You demand that they take your beliefs on faith.

Perhaps you might amplify what you mean by my
"beliefs."

Are you a "rational person?"
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 23, 2015, 12:08:20 AM
Perhaps you might amplify what you mean by my "beliefs."
Only to a point, as you are being an asshole when it comes to answering questions I only have so much information.  One thing you have said is: "It is much more about what you consider to be 'credible evidence.' '".  What I consider credible evidence is evidence which, supports a hypothesis (in the Bayesian sense), which is clear, correctly cites source material, conforms to the rules of probability theory and in line with well established principles in other sciences like physics and biology.

Rejecting these principles means effectively believing in things for no good reason at all and virtually everything you have posted is the opposite of one and frequently all of those things.
Quote
Are you a "rational person?"
It doesn't really matter.  If you're going to say anything to anyone about anything that has to be one of your fundamental assumptions.  Otherwise you might as well recite the dictionary and say it's an argument for vaccine safety...or against vaccine safety.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 23, 2015, 04:08:24 AM
Quote
Again, I don't speak troll very well.  Are you trying to say that a dinosaurs lifespan is longer than a humans or that they existed as a species for longer then we did.

Please stop calling me troll or just stop responding back to me as plan and simple.

I thought it was so obvious that dinosaurs have lived on earth longer than us and I thought that you could do math too, the majority states that the dinosaurs where in fact living only with DNA “vaccinations” and a lot of it has to do with preventing it in the first place via “evolution”.

From that we can see that humans have been on this earth for very little than dinosaurs where on this earth as a whole. Are you a dinosaur old man? Not even if you talk about your brothers ans sister apes don't even come close in the time line?

Quote
Every action has an effect.  Even inaction.  So refusing a vaccination has a side effect of making you more likely to get a disease.

Exactly, how is that hard to see? But let me “not be nice” let me go to work with a microbial filter at work when people go to work with the flu? Am I going to discriminate them or make them feel “sick” or “ill”. Or we can also make them wear microbial filtering masks as to not spread the virus, oh i'm going to hurt their feelings?

We already know that works because painters that paint cars use FILTERS and the same happens in air conditioning units, IN FACT, hospitals have the “best” (I wish) microbial filters as to not spread the virus from one room to the other via the HVAC sytem...and of course we have via the hands hence washing hands hence why I mentioned the thumb is your dirtiest finger....not hard to think at all.

Quote
There are "sub-atomic viruses"?  Who knew?  Do you mean you don't know how they work at a sub-atomic level?  Doubtful but we do know quite a lot about how they work at an atomic level and an enormous amount about how they work at the cellular level.

lol now we can talk about nuclear fission and stuff...it's the same thing. Doctors are trying to figure out the sud-atomic viruses, physicist are trying to understand the sub-atomic particles.

I already mentioned that everything connects with each other. As like talking about bees...all are bees but then we have honey bees, wasps, hornets, bumble bees...etc, but they are all BEES.

The same with the sub-atomic world in both sides, urenium to fuel via fossils and vaccines to fuel the immune system...both are sub-atomic, atomic, really foking small. But we have not figured out all 360* angles or what exists in the mricro world. You only understand what you can understand in the present time ONLY.

Quote
The word we tend to use is "inactivated" which means dead.  However since antibodies look for the "shape" of the virus (I'm oversimplifying here a bit) it will cause the body to produce antibodies for the live virus.  Enough for someone who comes in contact with the virus to be asymptomatic or sometimes merely have a mild case.  The nasal vaccine is a "attenuated" virus which means that the virus is still live and capable of infection but greatly weakened.  This is similar to the inoculation done for small pox via cow pox.

I already know this and it's what I said. You are just saying my word of semi-dead = “inactive” and my word of more alive is= “attenuated” but it's still the same thing. I'm not trying to be politically correct because I don't understand the medical lingo just like you don't understand the LAWYERS lingo. BUT I do understand what I need to understand...further understanding than that, I would need to get paid. IOW, just go deeper only in one study.

You just changed my words to medical words and so I'm wrong in the whole main point because you just did that? Okay.

Quote
Absolutely wrong.  Antibodies are simply not that specific - if you read Sea Monkey's post about the scary shadow government having a flu vaccine which covers 100% of the flu.  While he is an idiot and incorrect there are antibodies which attack more broadly.   Another example is the varicella vaccine which has been shown to provide protection to people with the herpes virus.

Yes I can go study many thousandths of pages regarding medicine but that is not my field.

I'm still RIGHT, you are just focusing on the cure after the fact with medicine and forgetting about the cure before THE FACTS. Since if never occurs in the first place, you would not need any medicine.

Lets say that I got the flu shot today and I disregarded EVOLUTIONARY precautions and I never told anyone to caught in the inner elbows. Then I get the virus just like many other millions of other people.  Then the virus WILL mutate and become another different PREDOMINANT strand in the future. You are just going to be at war with viruses with medicine.

Now if we educate people, like I have myself, I would have never would have gotten contagious in the beginning = hence not allowing viruses to mutate and evolve to more dangerous! IN FACT VIRUSES HAVE AN IMMUNITY TOo THAT THEY BECOME TO MEDICINE EVENTUALLY. Or am I wrong that viruses don't have their own immunity or way to “evoluve” like “MUTATE”.

Quote
Unless you are taking the nasal vaccine.  You are getting a virus that is all dead.  Vaccines contain adjuviants which make the body make more antibodies than they usually would.

Ohhh, this is more for shyt and giggles, but you are telling me that there are no cases where a person gets the flu virus right after he/she gets the flu virus shot?

Quote
Yes people can still get sick but not for the reason you stated.  See above.

Why should I believe you and not articles stating people whom specialize in this field say so.

I just spoke about people getting sick after the flue shot because the virus mutated so fast that the flu shot became nill. And you expect me to believe you over real experts. ok.

What is your back ground in medicine?

Quote
Exceptionally unlikely - especially with a handshake.

lol, saliva has DNA, sneezing has DNA = saliva fog spray. Wow, this is soooo stupid that I'm amazed how you understand how viruses spread!

Pretend a female having her time of the day and uses the toilet and then there is a drop of blood on the toilet seat. Then comes a person with no vaccination aids (no cure for aids) and sits on the same toilet BELIEVING THAT AN STD/VIRUS CANNOT BE SPREAD VIA A TOILET.. comes a long and says “well, I will believe sarkeizen, and I quote “Exceptionally unlikely“ (nor mentioning no cures for AIDS). So the person that sits down just happens to have an itch in the skit previously that it aligned right next to the blood on the toilet seat (even microscopic) and person itched it hard that caused a microscopic break in the skin, and then the infected DNA enters via that broken skin! You are very INTELLIGENT!

I think I'm done with you. Thanks. Is not like you put sprinkle pill/drug/vaccines on the toilets and water and air to prevent illness for FREEE!

The mere fact that if the STD carrier (person) was to understand that leaving blood on a toilet and not wipe it off, or the mere fact that the other user of the toilet, does not understands to clean the toilet in the first place, is not way better than getting the virus VACCINATION in the first place?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 23, 2015, 04:20:04 AM
Please stop calling me troll or just stop responding back to me as plan and simple.

I thought it was so obvious that dinosaurs have lived on earth longer than us and I thought that you could do math too, the majority states that the dinosaurs where in fact living only with DNA “vaccinations” and a lot of it has to do with preventing it in the first place via “evolution”.

From that we can see that humans have been on this earth for very little than dinosaurs where on this earth as a whole. Are you a dinosaur old man? Not even if you talk about your brothers ans sister apes don't even come close in the time line?

Exactly, how is that hard to see? But let me “not be nice” let me go to work with a microbial filter at work when people go to work with the flu? Am I going to discriminate them or make them feel “sick” or “ill”. Or we can also make them wear microbial filtering masks as to not spread the virus, oh i'm going to hurt their feelings?

We already know that works because painters that paint cars use FILTERS and the same happens in air conditioning units, IN FACT, hospitals have the “best” (I wish) microbial filters as to not spread the virus from one room to the other via the HVAC sytem...and of course we have via the hands hence washing hands hence why I mentioned the thumb is your dirtiest finger....not hard to think at all.

lol now we can talk about nuclear fission and stuff...it's the same thing. Doctors are trying to figure out the sud-atomic viruses, physicist are trying to understand the sub-atomic particles.

I already mentioned that everything connects with each other. As like talking about bees...all are bees but then we have honey bees, wasps, hornets, bumble bees...etc, but they are all BEES.

The same with the sub-atomic world in both sides, urenium to fuel via fossils and vaccines to fuel the immune system...both are sub-atomic, atomic, really foking small. But we have not figured out all 360* angles or what exists in the mricro world. You only understand what you can understand in the present time ONLY.

I already know this and it's what I said. You are just saying my word of semi-dead = “inactive” and my word of more alive is= “attenuated” but it's still the same thing. I'm not trying to be politically correct because I don't understand the medical lingo just like you don't understand the LAWYERS lingo. BUT I do understand what I need to understand...further than that I would need to get paid.

You just changed my words to medical words and so I'm wrong in the whole main point because you just did that? Okay.

Yes I can go study many thousandths of pages regarding medicine but that is not my field.

I'm still RIGHT, you are just focusing on the cure after the fact with medicine and forgetting about the cure before THE FACTS. Since it never occurs in the first place, you would not need any medicine.

Lets say that I got the flu shot today and I disregarded EVOLUTIONARY precautions and I never told anyone to caught in the inner elbows. Then I get the virus just like many other millions of other people.  Then the virus WILL mutate and become another different PREDOMINANT strand in the future. You are just going to be at war with viruses with medicine.

Now if we educate people, like I have myself, I would have never would have gotten contagious in the beginning = hence not allowing viruses to mutate and evolve to more dangerous! IN FACT VIRUSES HAVE AN IMMUNITY TOo THAT THEY BECOME TO MEDICINE EVENTUALLY. Or am I wrong that viruses don't have their own immunity or way to “evoluve” like “MUTATE”.

Ohhh, this is more for shyt and giggles, but you are telling me that there are no cases where a person gets the flu virus right after he/she gets the flu virus shot?

Why should I believe you and not articles stating people whom specialize in this field say so.

I just spoke about people getting sick after the flue shot because the virus mutated so fast that the flu shot became nill. And you expect me to believe you over real experts. ok.

What is your back ground in medicine?

lol, saliva has DNA, sneezing has DNA saliva fog spray. Wow, this is soooo stupid that i'm amazed how you understand how viruses spread!

Pretend a female having her type of the day and uses the toylet and then there is a drop of blood on the toilet seat. Then comes a person with no aids and sits on the same toilet BELIEVING THAT AN STD/VIRUS CANNOT BE SPREAD VIA A TOILET comes a long and says “well, I will believe sarkeizen, and I quote “Exceptionally unlikely “. so the person that sits down just happen to have an itch in the skit that is aligned right next to the blood and itches it that caused a microscopic break in the skin, and then the infected DNA enters via that broken skin! You are very INTELLIGENT!

I think I'm done with you. Thanks. Is not like you put sprinkle pill/drug/vaccines on the toilets and water and air to prevent illness for FREEE!

The mere fact that if the STD carrier was to understand that leaving blood on a toilet to wype it off or the mere fact that the other user of the toilet understand to clean the toilet in the first place is not way better than getting the virus in the first place?

Dinosaurs had no vaccinations and that is probably why they are gone, and we are still here.  Of course, it could have been a large meteor.

Self-sanitizing toilet seats, now that is a very good idea.  "No more need to watch your ass, we will do it for you."  Fantastic idea.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on January 23, 2015, 05:04:25 AM
Where are the fake HIV vaccines? Shouldn't the NWO sell those too?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 23, 2015, 05:44:22 AM
Quote from: Sark-Eizen
Only to a point, as you are being an asshole when it comes to answering questions I only have so much information.

Thank You!  It must be my Navy Training.  When I
went to Boot Camp in 1960 at the Great Lakes
Naval Recruit Training Center, our Company Commander
(BMC Balzrina) informed us that he was "the biggest
Prick on the base."  Obviously some of his charm must
have rubbed off on me. ;) :)

Quote from: Sark-Eizen
  One thing you have said is: "It is much more about what you consider to be 'credible evidence.' '".  What I consider credible evidence is evidence which, supports a hypothesis (in the Bayesian sense), which is clear, correctly cites source material, conforms to the rules of probability theory and in line with well established principles in other sciences like physics and biology.

Debate, even for purportedly 'scientific' reasons
is no longer my gig.  When a youth full of piss and
vinegar debate was challenging and enjoyable.
I'm far past that stage of my existence.

Quote from: Sark-Eizen
Rejecting these principles means effectively believing in things for no good reason at all and virtually everything you have posted is the opposite of one and frequently all of those things.

You've just nailed the plight of those who find
themselves enamored of The Matrix.  In fact, the
media propaganda organ desires that the masses
within the Matrix believe all that they propagate
for no good reason.  Just believe.  Do not think.

Quote from: Sark-Eizen
It doesn't really matter.  If you're going to say anything to anyone about anything that has to be one of your fundamental assumptions.  Otherwise you might as well recite the dictionary and say it's an argument for vaccine safety...or against vaccine safety.

My belief is that there is Truth.  At the present
time Truth is not abundant and requires some
searching to find it.  The MainStream Media is
chock full of Dis-information and Deception.

My goal is to encourage all who desire to find
Truth to search for it in even the most unusual
or unpopular places.  Be highly suspicious of all
'news' which originates from within the Beast.
Love your enemies and do unto others as you
would have them do unto you.

K
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 23, 2015, 05:49:29 AM
Please stop calling me troll
As soon as you stop acting like one. :)
Quote
I thought it was so obvious that dinosaurs have lived on earth longer than us and I thought that you could do math too,
Much more than you can.  Yes.
Quote
the majority states
The majority of what?  Fruit bats?  Sales clerks? People in the idiot caucus?
Quote
that the dinosaurs where in fact living only with DNA “vaccinations” and a lot of it has to do with preventing it in the first place via “evolution”.
No, it probably has more to do with not being an agrarian society and having a low population density.

Quote
already know that works because painters that paint cars use FILTERS and the same happens in air conditioning units, IN FACT, hospitals have the “best” (I wish) microbial filters as to not spread the virus from one room to the other via the HVAC sytem
Hospital ventilation systems have filters that are very good but a) this is not the only or even main form of infection depending on the virus.  b) You couldn't wear or force someone to wear those if you wanted to and c) they are not perfect and d) as I mentioned you have to be wearing them and many if not most viruses (ebola being an interesting outlier) are infectious when you are asymptomatic.

Vaccines protect you even when you forget to put on your hazmat suit. 

Quote
I already know this and it's what I said. You are just saying my word of semi-dead = “inactive”
No you don't "semi-dead" is in English at best ambiguous.  It can easily mean alive (but just barely).
Quote
You just changed my words to medical words and so I'm wrong in the whole main point because you just did that? Okay.
No, I used the correct words and corrected your poor English.
Quote
I'm still RIGHT, you are just focusing on the cure after the fact with medicine and forgetting about the cure before THE FACTS. Since if never occurs in the first place, you would not need any medicine.
Sorry I don't speak whatever language you are using.  You said a vaccine ONLY PROTECTS AGAINST EXACTLY ONE STRAND and that is incorrect.
Quote
I would have never would have gotten contagious in the beginning
Yes you would.  Since you would be contagious before you knew you had the virus. :)
Quote
hence not allowing viruses to mutate and evolve to more dangerous!
Viruses do not get more dangerous because they mutate.  In fact some become less dangerous when they mutate. :)

Quote
IN FACT VIRUSES HAVE AN IMMUNITY TOo THAT THEY BECOME TO MEDICINE EVENTUALLY. Or am I wrong that viruses don't have their own immunity or way to “evoluve” like “MUTATE”.
Viruses don't have an immune system.  They simply change, some of those changes are harmful, some are not, the changes which allow for propagation end up being the changes which prevail.
Quote
but you are telling me that there are no cases where a person gets the flu virus right after he/she gets the flu virus shot?
I didn't say anything like that.  Your grasp of English is like a preschooler.  Which flu virus?  The one you are vaccinated against?
Quote
Why should I believe you and not articles stating people whom specialize in this field say so.
\
Because you probably don't understand what you are reading.
Quote
I just spoke about people getting sick after the flue shot because the virus mutated so fast that the flu shot became nill. And you expect me to believe you over real experts. ok.
That's not what you were saying in text I was responding to.  You said people get sick because it only protects against the predominate strain and it doesn't.  a) Most vaccines are trivalent which means they carry three serotypes and b) one of the factors in choosing a serotype is going to be the breadth of the protection. 
Quote
What is your back ground in medicine?
None.  I'm just an average person.
Quote
saliva has DNA, sneezing has DNA = saliva fog spray. Wow, this is soooo stupid that I'm amazed how you understand how viruses spread!
Yes, you are very stupid.  Not all viruses survive in the same environments for the same length of time.  Not all cells are vulnerable to all viruses.  HIV for example attempts to infect CD4 cells which are found primarily in the blood stream.  This is why oral  is so much lower risk than anal or vaginal.   
Quote
Pretend a female having her time of the day and uses the toilet and then there is a drop of blood on the toilet seat. Then comes a person with no vaccination aids (no cure for aids) and sits on the same toilet BELIEVING THAT AN STD/VIRUS CANNOT BE SPREAD VIA A TOILET
I don't know what "extremely unlikely" means in troll but in English it means an exceptionally low probability.  A microscopic break is also probably not enough.
Quote
The mere fact that if the STD carrier (person) was to understand that leaving blood on a toilet and not wipe it off, or the mere fact that the other user of the toilet, does not understands to clean the toilet in the first place, is not way better than getting the virus VACCINATION in the first place?
For a disease for which there is no vaccine?  Sure.  However that's irrelevant to what we're talking about. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 23, 2015, 06:00:32 AM
Thank you!
Awwww....it's cute when someone tries to cover up treating people badly by attempting to make it commendable.  You said something about the immature earlier right?  This must of course be what you meant. :)
Quote
Debate, even for purportedly 'scientific' reasons is no longer my gig.
Don't worry, at no point in time were you ever considered someone who would be doing something in a scientific way. ::)
Anyway you're just avoiding the point again.  This isn't about debate.  You are still, like it or not demanding people accept your beliefs on faith in order to be treated as if they are rational. 
Quote
Just believe.  Do not think.
Is exactly what you're commanding people...if they want to be treated as a rational person by you.  Thanks for the admission of guilt. :)
Quote
Be highly suspicious of all 'news' which originates from within the Beast.
Where you are the person who gets to defined what is and is not "the Beast" and you also command people to be insanely gullible to things you deem "not from the Beast".   At least, that's what you've said, several times now. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 23, 2015, 06:11:03 AM
Quote
http://vaccineimpact.com/2015/why-are-so-many-healthy-people-dying-from-the-flu-after-receiving-the-flu-shot/

“Another flu death of an otherwise healthy person after receiving the flu vaccine has been reported in Wisconsin. WISN in Wisconsin is reporting that 26-year-old Katherine McQuestion has died from flu complications, after she received the flu shot. Katherine was reportedly a newlywed, and was required to receive the flu shot as part of her employment.”

The more I learn about how the vaccinations works, the more I see a lot of ignorance where the all the people should believe the “expert”.

Take for example, “Katherine was reportedly a newlywed, and was required to receive the flu shot as part of her employment.

Do they require MANDATORY flu shots in work now?

Lol, this is very GREEDY and confused experts playing GOD.

We can even do a simplistic study! “scientists” can do some studies on certain building where people work. Lets say we give MANDATORY flu shorts to one building (or even two) and write down the results overs a few years. We do the same with another building in the same town and rather than giving them out MANDATORY flu shots, we educate them how the flu virus first gets in the body (no one gets the flu shot). And I mean everyone (well realistically, that's impossible but more than 80%) . Then we write down the results for a few years. Then we compare the data of the two and then we will see true results.

Then others can do the same in other states and compare the overall global data. Simple as that and I'm sure that vaccinations now are at the stage where they are helping the virus mutate more than anything and causing UNKNOWN illnesses rather than helping. This is supported by the FACT of how "evolution" works where the social animal circle becomes immune over time. The major cities are already immune of a lot of deadly deceases that the only risk comes from uneducated places.

How hard is this to understand?

Allow an ill person with the flu to cough in your face and you will get sick most likly since, let me think very hard, the cold helps the flu virus that is why it is more predominant in the body during winter. As a matter of fact now I'm wondering how ALASKANS (north pole or south pole duelers) deal with the flu virus? Do they take flu vaccines more than say people that live in the equator in the earth?

Lol, this is crazy.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 23, 2015, 06:17:46 AM
Quote from: Sark-Eizen
...
You are still, like it or not demanding people accept your beliefs on faith in order to be treated as if they are rational.
...

I shall await the Voice of the People as
evidence to either confirm or deny your
allegation. 8) :)

Regarding 'immaturity.'  I've reached the
age where it is everywhere - we are
surrounded by it. :o ::)

You may wear that shoe if you find that it
fits. ;) :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 23, 2015, 06:21:03 AM


A bottomless pit of emptiness, if there ever was one.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 23, 2015, 06:29:28 AM
Do they require MANDATORY flu shots in work now?
If you work in the health care field this is often the case.  Despite the measures taken in hospitals people still get infected and as the people in the hospital are in a weakened condition it is more likely to cause them serious harm.   Since the risk of the flu shot is insanely small compared to the risk of dying of the flu.  Hospitals and other health care facilities often decide mandatory vaccination instead of killing people.  You seem to prefer the opposite. :)
Quote
I'm sure that vaccinations now are at the stage where they are helping the virus mutate
You forgot to say "100%" like you do every time you say something stupid. :)
Quote
As a matter of fact now i'm wondering how ALASKANS deal with the flu virus.
Don't confuse this with thinking because that's definitely not what you are doing.  While she was vaccinated, her sepsis was due to catching the flu not vaccination.
Quote
Do they take flu vaccines more than say people that live in the equator of the earth?
Population density Anchorage 66.1/km^2
Population Density Quito: 7,200/km^2

So much for 360 degree thinking.  LOL.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 23, 2015, 06:39:32 AM
I shall await the Voice of the People as evidence to either confirm or deny your allegation.
LOL.  Isn't that exactly what the unthinking masses would do?  "Let's let everyone else tell me what to think!" (especially when you're already pretty sure nobody will say anything that would challenge your presuppositions).  ::)
It's not an allegation.  It's a direct result of what you have said.  Either you are treating people like myself as your rational equals or you are not (hint: you're not, you've said that clearly and unambiguously)
Quote
Regarding 'immaturity.'  I've reached the age where it is everywhere - we are surrounded by it.
You used it very recently in a derogatory way and now that it's applied to you all of a sudden it's benign.  LOL.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 23, 2015, 06:50:07 AM


He really hates it when people cut right to the chase...which is why he has me on ignore(purportedly).

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 23, 2015, 07:08:15 AM
Quote
Hospital ventilation systems have filters that are very good but a) this is not the only or even main form of infection depending on the virus.  b) You couldn't wear or force someone to wear those if you wanted to and c) they are not perfect and d) as I mentioned you have to be wearing them and many if not most viruses (ebola being an interesting outlier) are infectious when you are asymptomatic.

No matter what you say 100% facts filters will prevent contaminations. It is not even on AC filters, it's even in the BANDAIDS, nurses RESPIRATORS, putting ill kids in bubbles, even CONDOMS, ohhhh is the OZONE LAYER SOME TYPE OF FILTER? NO, it can't be. etc.

I think your ego is getting the best of you.

If you had to choose from wearing a mask during high risk of getting the flu, would you wear a microbial filter that would protect you from an airborne virus or would you rather throw the mask away and take a flu shot?

I would buy masks to wear to protect myself from IGNORANT flu virus carries than to get a flu shot the same reason I wear a condom when I don't want babies or an STD. Education is way better then vaccines in real life...as an example., people who drive fast cars like a Ferrari insurance is through the roof. Because it's a greater risk to crash and kill someone that someone driving a geo metro. And the vaccine for the pleasure of owning one of those fast cars also has protection built in it too...the car is a jigsaw, what I mean in a high MPH crash, the car is built to break in to little pieces ACTION REACTION, the engine that is heaviest will break apart from the drivers section. In a case where the criver crashes, the motor is the heaviest so it will add to the safeness to the driver since the engine will land farther than the driver if it breaks apart.

The same is in the flu virus. Face filter has a greater GUARANTEE protection from a flu virus (or other viruses) than a flu shot. Think about that one. And it's not hard to understand if you look at a lot of angles.

Again, would you take the flu shot over wearing a mask with filters?  Even if just be wearing plain t-shirt cloth filter, since the spray will stick to the cloth cotton strands, is way better than none at all. INFACT, that is how the nose hairs work, eye lashes, ear wax!!! Nose hairs are filters to the body same as boogers. yaray yara yara

Quote
You said a vaccine ONLY PROTECTS AGAINST EXACTLY ONE STRAND and that is incorrect.

OK mr-know-it-all tell me, how many vaccines for the flu virus are made each year and for how many flu virus starnds? Then tell me on average how many flu virus strands are born each year in the USA, ASIA, CANADA, AFRICA, EUROPE?

Quote
Viruses do not get more dangerous because they mutate.  In fact some become less dangerous when they mutate.

I understand that but human NATURE is not about becoming less weak. How far would a cheetah run if it had an extra leg? Then they become FOOD. Lol i'm sure viruses eat other mutated weak strands.

Quote
Viruses don't have an immune system.

Can show show proof?

Quote
That's not what you were saying in text I was responding to.  You said people get sick because it only protects against the predominate strain and it doesn't.  a) Most vaccines are trivalent which means they carry three serotypes and b) one of the factors in choosing a serotype is going to be the breadth of the protection. 

lol, I said a lot of things and some times I speak in a philosophical way. But I know I have already mentioned this one way or another and I can even repeat it in another way.

Explain to me how the flu virus is born?

Then explain to me how a “doctor” (or whom ever makes vaccines) comes up with a vaccine?

And how he/she predicted which strand will me more PREDOMINANT in the next year?

Then give me statistics of how many people have been saved from the flu virus sine the year 2000 vs how many have die due to the mosquito insect? For example!

Give me statistics!

Quote
None.  I'm just an average person.

lol, ohhh ok. Then what makes you believe 100% sure that you understand vaccines 100% if you have no education regarding vaccinations nor even how to fix an HVAC system.

I don't mean to brag but I can fix an HVAC system easy! And a lot of other things. That's why I know that they are all related together.

I think maybe you need to think deeper to understand about GREED. I even asked you to tell me the history of money and you never responded. I have a .pdf regarding the history of money how it started from exchanging goods for goods. yara yara yara.

At the end of the day, focusing in one area is not that hard since we are social animals.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 23, 2015, 03:52:59 PM
No matter what you say 100% facts
Hey you're the "100% troll" again!
Quote
filters will prevent contaminations
Some but not all.  The degree of effectiveness depends on a large number of variables including how carefully people take them on and off (as we learned in the ebola outbreak). 
Quote
I think your ego is getting the best of you.
I can barely understand your deliberately broken English.  What's there to have an ego about?
Quote
If you had to choose from wearing a mask during high risk of getting the flu, would you wear a microbial filter that would protect you from an airborne virus or would you rather throw the mask away and take a flu shot?
Depends.  In most cases the mask wouldn't offer better or even improved protection.  For example during H1N1 I had to live with someone who was infected and shedding viruses everywhere.  The mask would have been almost 100% useless because the person was walking around the house, touching just about everything I touch.  I'm on the priority list for vaccination against infectious diseases so I had already been vaccinated.
Quote
the same reason I wear a condom when I don't want babies
Trust me, nobody wants you to have babies. :)
Quote
Education is way better then vaccines in real life
Quite the opposite, during the ebola outbreak we found that even when educated and equipped with far stronger measures than you are proposing and faced with not just getting sick but dying.  People still got infected.  So the evidence says you're stupid. :)
Quote
Face filter has a greater GUARANTEE protection from a flu virus (or other viruses)
Not in practice and probably not in theory but since you won't tell me what you're using as a filter I can't give you exact numbers.
Quote
And it's not hard to understand if you look at a lot of angles.
Does "look at a lot of angles" just mean "Joel failed math?"  Seems like it.
Quote
Even if just be wearing plain t-shirt cloth filter, since the spray will stick to the cloth cotton strands, is way better than none at all.
A cloth t-shirt is probably more than 90% permeable by the virus making it even worse than this years flu vaccine.  Congratulations you're an idiot.
Quote
INFACT, that is how the nose hairs work, eye lashes, ear wax!!! Nose hairs are filters
...and having all those things people still get infections.
Quote
OK mr-know-it-all tell me, how many vaccines for the flu virus are made each year
No idea what you're asking here.
Quote
and for how many flu virus starnds?
Do you mean serotype?
Quote
Then tell me on average how many flu virus strands
Please use a word that means something. 
Quote
i'm sure viruses eat other mutated weak strands.
You think viruses eat?
Quote
Can show show proof?
Well ask yourself the question "What is an immune system?" and you might figure that out. :)
Quote
lol, I said a lot of things and some times I speak in a philosophical way
The word is "ignorant".  You speak in a "ignorant way". :)
Quote
Explain to me how the flu virus is born?
I need this translated from deliberately broken troll to English.
Quote
And how he/she predicted which strand will me more PREDOMINANT in the next year?
Again I need a word that isn't "strand" since that doesn't mean anything in medicine.  :)  No studies will tell me about a "strand" because we don't use that word. :)
Quote
Then give me statistics of how many people have been saved from the flu virus sine the year 2000 vs how many have die due to the mosquito insect? For example!
.
I need this in English.  Sorry.  I have no idea what you mean by "die due to mosquito insect".
Quote
Then what makes you believe 100% sure that you understand vaccines 100%
I've never said that I understand vaccines 100%.  I've just pointed out where you are wrong about things. :)  Even someone who did as poorly in math as you did.  Should be able to understand that I can correct someone even if I don't understand something 100%. :)
Quote
if you have no education regarding vaccinations
I didn't say that either. ::)
Quote
I even asked you to tell me the history of money and you never responded.
I did.  I responded by saying I wouldn't be answering those questions.  See how bad your fake-broken English is?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 23, 2015, 04:01:32 PM
Hey you're the "100% troll" again!


Insults from a 3 cent shill.

Priceless !

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 23, 2015, 09:48:27 PM
Aerosolized vaccines for thought control (http://www.naturalnews.com/048347_aerosolized_vaccines_behavioral_modification_obedience.html)

The tyrants in power fear the people.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 23, 2015, 10:33:17 PM
Aerosolized vaccines for thought control (http://www.naturalnews.com/048347_aerosolized_vaccines_behavioral_modification_obedience.html)

The tyrants in power fear the people.
...and stupid (or deliberately ignorant) people like yourself are insanely gullible. :)  The fact that you would post a rather well known practical joke as TRUTH kind of undermines your claims to having any idea what the truth is. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 23, 2015, 10:38:02 PM
American public losing faith in CDC (http://www.zengardner.com/american-public-officially-loses-faith-in-cdc/)

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 23, 2015, 10:38:51 PM
Words of fifedom from the insanely corrupt.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 23, 2015, 11:01:39 PM
American public losing faith in CDC (http://www.zengardner.com/american-public-officially-loses-faith-in-cdc/)
LOL.  What is it with your incredibly bad standard of evidence.  Almost every article you post is like some infant whining.

a) The title has almost nothing to do with the topic.  No evidence was given for a change in public opinion of the CDC.   It's interesting how often someone who invokes the work "truth" (with capital letters no less) posts things which are deceptive. :)
b) The rest of the article is just a rehash of many of the same, already refuted things you have already posted. :)

So when does this thread actually contain "recent developments".  Just sayin'
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 23, 2015, 11:39:21 PM
Quote from: Sark-Eizen
...and stupid (or deliberately ignorant) people like yourself are insanely gullible. :)  The fact that you would post a rather well known practical joke as TRUTH kind of undermines your claims to having any idea what the truth is. :)

Your continuing efforts to make your AGENDA
and your Mission crystal clear are greatly
appreciated by the folks waking up to the
Deceptions. 8) :)

The Tyrants truly are worried that your work
may be having an effect opposite to what you
intend. :o ???

In any case, their final acts in desperation as
they rush to solidify the New Order of Things
are so sloppy that few are falling into their traps
any longer. ::) :-[

They're assuring that none will escape notice of
how crazy they've become. ;D ;)

Yours too! :o :(
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 23, 2015, 11:43:24 PM

In any case, their final acts in desperation as
they rush to solidify the New Order of Things
are so sloppy that few are falling into their traps
any longer. ::) :-[

They're assuring that none will escape notice of
how crazy they've become. ;D ;)

Yours too! :o :(

They do seem to be in an awful hurry, don't they ?

Too many holes in the dyke now, I'm afraid.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 24, 2015, 12:11:24 AM
Your continuing efforts to make your AGENDA and your Mission crystal clear
ROFL.   I'm pretty certain you're just a troll now.

The facts appear to be that you posted a practical joke as if it was some serious TRUTH because like every other thing you post you didn't spend even a moment in self-criticism. :)

Edit: Should I have posted a big image file too?  Like one with your face (taken from our secret cameras in your house) and the words "enormous idiot" on it?  What's your advice here?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 24, 2015, 03:48:06 AM
Quote
Some but not all. The degree of effectiveness depends on a large number of variables including how carefully people take them on and off (as we learned in the ebola outbreak).

i'm not even arguing about that at all. ALL I”M SAYING ISA THAT FILTERS WORK MORE THAN VACINATIONS.

As a matter of fact coughing while having the flu virus to the ground, that is some type of EDUCATIONAL filter too.

Also if you cough inside t-shirt, that is also effective too.

Also keeping a distance farther than the cough can reach so the virus can just fall to the floor/ground and die.

All of the above are filters.

I NEVER SAID THAT ALL FILTERS WILL FILTRATE EVERYTHING SINCE IT'S PRETTY OBVIOUS.

Quote
I can barely understand your deliberately broken English.  What's there to have an ego about?

Give Dr. Phil a call and he will explain it really well for you.

Quote
Depends.  In most cases the mask wouldn't offer better or even improved protection.  For example during H1N1 I had to live with someone who was infected and shedding viruses everywhere.  The mask would have been almost 100% useless because the person was walking around the house, touching just about everything I touch.  I'm on the priority list for vaccination against infectious diseases so I had already been vaccinated.

Nice research right there, you are not believing in the mask based ONLY ON YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ONE! FLU VIRUS CARRIER. Ohhh ok. I thought you thought was greater. This sounds like you are trolling yourself.

In MOST cases IS ONLY BASED ON “I had to live with someone who was infected” well don't you see doctors and nurses wearing FILTERS to both not get infected nor infect the patient?

As a matter of fact, if a doctor is doing surgery on an HIV/AIDS carrier, he uses the FILTERS to mostly protect him/herself SINCE there is no cure for that virus. IOW, the success of the filters is enough to operate and touch their infected blood with out getting contaminated!!!

I'm figuring you out little by little :)

Quote
Trust me, nobody wants you to have babies.

Oh you talked to the girls that insinuate to me? Plus why would you take this out of context when I was trying to imply that condoms are FILTERS that, although do not stop STD transmission, they do help. JUST LIKE THE SKIN IN ANIMALS FILTER OUT VIRUSES TO THE FLESH! Use your brain if you can.

Quote
Quite the opposite, during the ebola outbreak we found that even when educated and equipped with far stronger measures than you are proposing and faced with not just getting sick but dying.  People still got infected.  So the evidence says you're stupid.

Explain to me how the ebola virus was born and from what animal it came from?

The thing that I'm trying to explain to you over and over again is the ROOTS. If we now can understand where the ebola virus came from and how it MUTATED, we don't need shots BUT ONLY preventative measures.

There will not be a virus outbreak in the civilized world UNLESS someone does it on purpose, STOP LIVING IN THE UNCIVILIZED WORLD!

Quote
Not in practice and probably not in theory but since you won't tell me what you're using as a filter I can't give you exact numbers.

I tell the sick with flu person to stay away from me! I wash my hands when I see the sick flu person cough in his palm and then shakes my hands.

I tell the flu sick person to stay far away from the INTAKE of the HAVC unit.

Or simply I just EDUCATE how he/she got the virus in the first place!!!

Is your brain brand new?

Quote
Does "look at a lot of angles" just mean "Joel failed math?"  Seems like it.

You keep on going OUT OFF TOPIC over and over again.

OK smart guy. Explain how the flu virus is born?

Quote
A cloth t-shirt is probably more than 90% permeable by the virus making it even worse than this years flu vaccine.  Congratulations you're an idiot.

Where are your experiment results!?

LOL, did you conduct experiments how many flu virus go through a t-shirt when a person coughs through it? LOL, I'll bet a dollar that you have not...and I'll bet $100 that if a sick person with the flu lifts up his/her shirt when needed to cough, most of the virus would get FILTER by the t-shit cloth in the range of 80% or more...so I DON'T EVEN THINK YOU ARE AN EXPERT lol.

What?

Quote
...and having all those things people still get infections.

And having NO FILTERS people will get more infections than having NO LAYERS of filters. Hmmm...what is your reasoning?

Yawn! Is not the human SKIN not a FILTER of protection? HENCE, when the human skin gets a cut, the viruses get in!!!!!

Quote
No idea what you're asking here.

How are flu viruses made each year and which flu virus strand gets the vaccine?

Quote
You think viruses eat?

Well they need FREEE food energy to live. Why would be the purpose of the contaminating an ape human?

Quote
Well ask yourself the question "What is an immune system?" and you might figure that out.

ok, tell me what is an immune system?

Quote
The word is "ignorant".  You speak in a "ignorant way".

Ohhh if i'm more KNOWLEDGABLE about a lot of stuff and I'm higher in the knowledge than 60% of the people, so i'm ignorant based as an ignorant based on your assertions...holly cow more than 60% people are ignorant!

Then you are at fault for not teaching me how to not be non-ignorant! Since it is your responsibility if you are wayyy non-ignorant than me...you should feel bad! Out of topic again 0.o

Quote
I need this translated from deliberately broken troll to English.

Allow me to translate, HOW IS THE FLU VIRUS BORN!?

Quote
Again I need a word that isn't "strand" since that doesn't mean anything in medicine.  No studies will tell me about a "strand" because we don't use that word.

Oh brother, you can't figure out what I mean by STRAND? = STRAIN

Quote
I need this in English.  Sorry.  I have no idea what you mean by "die due to mosquito insect".

lol, sure you don't.

Quote
Even someone who did as poorly in math as you did.

I have never done maths in here, what are you talking about?

Quote
I did.  I responded by saying I wouldn't be answering those questions.  See how bad your fake-broken English is?

How do you understand life if you don't know how the rest of life works OUTSIDE your LITTLE BUBBLE?



Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 24, 2015, 04:07:19 AM
Quote from: Sark-Eizen
...
What's your advice here?

Please, do as you please!  The presumption is that you're
of the age where parental approval or advice is no longer
needed or necessary. :o ::)

Dazzle us with your Brilliance! 8) ;)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 24, 2015, 04:51:29 AM
i'm not even arguing about that at all. ALL I”M SAYING ISA THAT FILTERS WORK MORE THAN VACINATIONS.
Not really.
Quote
As a matter of fact coughing while having the flu virus to the ground, that is some type of EDUCATIONAL filter too.
English please.
Quote
Nice research right there, you are not believing in the mask based ONLY ON YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ON FLU VIRUS CARRIER.
Look I'm sorry if you can't understand.  I'm not arguing something is true based on an anecdote.  I'm showing you from an experience of mine how masks are often useless.  It would be exceptionally difficult to avoid the virus because it would be in so many places.  Hence vaccination was the superior choice.
Quote
In MOST cases IS ONLY BASED ON “ I had to live with someone who was infected
No, it was an example of how useless masks can be.
Quote
well don't you see doctors and nurses wearing FILTERS to both not get infected nor infect the patient?
Sure but a) this is used in addition to vaccination - the vast majority of health care workers are vaccinated and often requiried to be so b) it's a circumstance where getting sick has a higher chance of serious impact  c) You often don't know if they are vaccinated or not. d) The most frequent place they are worn is in the OR and this is because when someone has their body cut open they are operating at a lower immune capacity.

So it's entirely different than the scenario you were describing.   

Quote
As a matter of fact, if a docotr is doing surgery on an HIV/AIDS carrier, he uses the FILTERS to mostly protect him/herself SINCE there is no cure for that virus. IOW, the success of the filters is enough to operate and touch their blood with out getting contaminated!!!
Perhaps you need to take some deep breaths and then figure out what you mean by "filter".  I know all the procedures used by surgeons in North America when operating on HIV+ patients.  "filters" meaning anything that one would use to avoid influenza or avoid transmitting influenza is not really what is used.

Quote
Explain to me how the ebola virus was born and from what animal it came from?
Sorry I simply don't know what you mean by "born" and every time I talk about something to do with disease transmission you don't appear to understand.  So I apologize but I'm not going to answer any "born" questions.  Since they are effectively meaningless to me.  You can, if you want attempt to explain whatever moronic argument you are trying to make. :)

Quote
If we now can understand where the ebola virus came from and how it MUTATED, we don't need shots BUT ONLY preventative measures.
This doesn't really make any sense but that's probably because all the words that mean anything to anyone trained in medicine don't mean the same thing to someone like you who is trained in AC repair...or something. :)
Quote
I tell the sick with flu person to stay away from me!
Thousands of viruses are virulent before they are symptomatic.  Lots of viruses are actually LESS virulent when the person is symptomatic.  Seriously think about it, even a cavepeople can see that the person who is coughing and wheezing is someone they shouldn't hang around.  So viruses have a selection pressure to be infectious before they cause symptoms.
Quote
You keep on going OUT OFF TOPIC over and over again.
Actually that was on topic.  Sorry if you don't understand the relevance.
Quote
OK smart guy. Explain how the flu virus is born?
Sorry I don't answer "born" questions.  Last time I explained how one particular modality of cancer happens.  You couldn't even understand that I was talking about a cause and not a cure.   It was so far above you that you couldn't tell the difference.   So, no offense I'm not interested in talking about that, to someone who can't understand even something as simple as that. :)
Quote
did you conduct experiments how many flu virus go through a t-shirt when a person coughs?
Didn't have to there have been studies done on the transmission of viruses through surgical masks which are less permeable than your average T-shirt.  So I looked them up - that thing you never do - and extrapolated.  :) :) Idiot.

Quote
And having NO FILTERS people will get more infections LAYERS of filters. Hmmm...what is your reasoning?
Your argument is that filters - which seem to mean everything that exists - are better than vaccination.  However even with the filters you describe people still get sick and we also know that if we vaccinate those people then they are less likely to get sick.  Hence your example was irrelevant to your point.  Please try and be less stupid. :)
Quote
Is not the human SKIN not a FILTER of protection
Only is some usage irrelevant to the point.   Again, try to be smarter. :-)
Quote
How are flu viruses made each year and which flu virus strand gets the vaccine?
Please define "strand" in some way that is actually useful.
Quote
Well they need FREEE food energy to live.
Viruses aren't alive in that sense.  They replicate but do not eat.  I don't know of any off-hand which are independently mobile.  However, in theory it might be possible for a sub-cellular organism to have some appendage which in a particular environment could provide some mobility.  I searched some medical dbs but couldn't find anything obvious.
Quote
Why would be the purpose of the contaminating an ape human?
Why do you believe that viruses have a sense of purpose?
Quote
ok, tell me what is an immune system?
So you're saying you don't have a definition?
Quote
if i'm more KNOWLEDGABLE about a lot of stuff
Not about anything relevant to what we're discussing. :)
Quote
Then you are at fault for not teaching me
Only partially, you are one of the worst students. ::)
Quote
Allow me to translate, HOW IS THE FLU VIRUS BORN!?
So sorry.  No "born" questions until you convince me that you know what you're talking about. :)
Quote
Oh brother, you can't figure out what I mean by STRAND? = STRAIN
So you admit you're faking your bad English then?  I mean if you knew that the word was "strain" but used strand all the time.  Nice to see you admitted you're a troll.

So back to a question that if you had understood it a while ago I would have been able to give you some kind of answer.  You were too busy being ignorant.  Hopefully you have some time for this.  When you say "strain" - but because you're ignorant you say "strand' - do you mean serotype?
Quote
lol, sure you don't.
If you can't clarify what you mean...then just admit you don't know what you're talking about.
Quote
I have never done maths in here, what are you talking about?
Many of the things you assert are obviously wrong if you studied math.
Quote
How do you understand life if you don't know how the rest of life works OUTSIDE your LITTLE BUBBLE?
Everyone's knowledge is finite - yours more than most - so everyone lives in a bubble of sorts.  Everything you learn becomes part of your bubble.  So nobody knows how something works on the outside.

Yawn, but I'm sure you mean something stupid and will blame me for not understanding your idiosyncratic usage.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 24, 2015, 04:55:42 AM
Please, do as you please!
Ah I see where you lost your train of thought.  See the joke was that I was emulating the behavior of a troll - like yourself.  So
 I was asking what the proper "troll thing" to do would be. As you have cheerfully admitted you are vastly more experienced in this than I am.  You were really, really proud of it too...referencing some army training...or something.  :)

So in your expert trolling opinion.  Should I have posted a large irrelevant graphic - perhaps with some unsupported inflammatory text?

I await your expert advice. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on January 24, 2015, 05:24:32 AM

Often but not always
the TRUTH leads to
new insights and
interesting text formatting
schemes.


For adult and open minded
citizens who rightfully
distrust the evil mainstream
media, the following link
may be helpful to widen
their intellectual horizon.


 The TRUTH  (http://www.theonion.com/articles/i-dont-vaccinate-my-child-because-its-my-right-to,37839/)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 24, 2015, 06:26:06 AM
Quote
English please.

Me:”As a matter of fact coughing while having the flu virus to the ground, that is some type of EDUCATIONAL filter too.”

you:"English please."

me: a sick person with the flu person coughing to the ground will not infect the person that is standing in front of him or her.

Quote
Look I'm sorry if you can't understand.  I'm not arguing something is true based on an anecdote.  I'm showing you from an experience of mine how masks are often useless. It would be exceptionally difficult to avoid the virus because it would be in so many places.  Hence vaccination was the superior choice.

Can you you show me the STATISTICS that you are blabbering about?

Quote
No, it was an example of how useless masks can be.

Did you put on the mask PROPERLY?

Quote
Sure but a) this is used in addition to vaccination - the vast majority of health care workers are vaccinated and often requiried to be so b) it's a circumstance where getting sick has a higher chance of serious impact  c) You often don't know if they are vaccinated or not. d) The most frequent place they are worn is in the OR and this is because when someone has their body cut open they are operating at a lower immune capacity.

So it's entirely different than the scenario you were describing.   

No matter what you say, a VACCINE IS A TYPE OF FILTER!

And that is where we need to UNDERSTAND.

You say A vaccine FILTERS out the flu virus...right? I know this since the flu virus DOES NOT filter out all flu virus strains but just the “predominant”...please this is all I have been talking about!

Where a human gets infected with all of these FILTERS all over the place is either from uneducated or stupid, which correlates with uneducated.

You seem to be SCARED about viruses, thats a disorder in the mind!

Second, you are telling me if there is a human being that has never had vaccinations his/her entire life, he/she is carrying more viruses than your body is!? Lol...if you are carrying less viruses then someone else than conclusion vaccine is a 100% cure for death from viruses...what?

"the vast majority of health care workers are vaccinated "

how do you know this?

Too many BS you talk!

Quote
Perhaps you need to take some deep breaths and then figure out what you mean by "filter".  I know all the procedures used by surgeons in North America when operating on HIV+ patients.  "filters" meaning anything that one would use to avoid influenza or avoid transmitting influenza is not really what is used.

Perhaps you need to be open minded and see what a FILTER is.

In fact, explain the purpose of a filter?

You don't see the connection? Skin keeping out viruses? Immune system fighting viruses that get in? Ozone layer fighting the suns' gama rays?

Quote
Sorry I simply don't know what you mean by "born" and every time I talk about something to do with disease transmission you don't appear to understand.  So I apologize but I'm not going to answer any "born" questions.  Since they are effectively meaningless to me.  You can, if you want attempt to explain whatever moronic argument you are trying to make.

Can you explain how you where born? That is what I mean by BORN since that is the ONLY concept of what humans can understand about being BORN.

You seem to be TOO LITERALL, if I tell you “you owe me 50 bucks” you are going to give me 50 deer animals? Stop being LITERAL.

Quote
Thousands of viruses are virulent before they are symptomatic.  Lots of viruses are actually LESS virulent when the person is symptomatic.  Seriously think about it, even a cavepeople can see that the person who is coughing and wheezing is someone they shouldn't hang around.  So viruses have a selection pressure to be infectious before they cause symptoms.

Correction, MILLIONS of viruses or it could be GOOLELLIONS.

Quote
Lots of viruses are actually LESS virulent when the person is symptomatic.

Oh do tell which viruses?

Quote
Sorry I don't answer "born" questions.

How where you born?

Quote
Didn't have to there have been studies done on the transmission of viruses through surgical masks which are less permeable than your average T-shirt.  So I looked them up - that thing you never do - and extrapolated.

Hey idiot have you ever wonder about fat people and skinny people? A flu virus may be blocked by a t-shirt weave but other smaller microvial ones can get past through! Well I have never thought about that before in my life lol.

Well lets operate with no masks on on everyone doctors. Lol, you are the idiot! I don't even know why you refuse of using surgical mask = vaccinations. There is something going wrong in your brain matter!

Quote
Your argument is that filters - which seem to mean everything that exists

YES! Since we all exist because of the EVERYTHING!

Quote
However even with the filters you describe people still get sick and we also know that if we vaccinate those people then they are less likely to get sick.

What vaccinated the dinosaurs or the plantum that the dinosaurs “evolved” from?

What if the flu virus will MUTATE a new breed of better intelligent people than your stupidity and you are preventing it with your “medicine” greed?

I know you and me both think alike but you just seem to closed minded. It takes time though!

Quote
Please define "strand" in some way that is actually useful.

you must be blind not to see what I mean by STRAND lol

Quote
Viruses aren't alive in that sense.  They replicate but do not eat.  I don't know of any off-hand which are independently mobile.

is not the mere fact of REPLICATING a form of eating?

And how do you know the viruses do not eat?

How do you know that there are not obese viruses and no anorexic ones?

Quote
Why do you believe that viruses have a sense of purpose?

Well there is a little thing called we learn from past experiences!!!

Quote
So you're saying you don't have a definition?

ok, tell me what is an immune system?

Quote
Only partially, you are one of the worst students.

No you are at fault for not teaching me.

Do you want me to be stupid all of the time and never learn?

Quote
So sorry.  No "born" questions until you convince me that you know what you're talking about.

you seriously do not understand the word to be BORN? You came out from a females ! Thats being born for you!

Quote
So you admit you're faking your bad English then?  I mean if you knew that the word was "strain" but used strand all the time.

NO! my Spanish is evolving to English. I simply googled what a strand means in your language and it is strain, which at the end of the day strain sounds stupid and only lives in biology.

Quote
So back to a question that if you had understood it a while ago I would have been able to give you some kind of answer.  You were too busy being ignorant.  Hopefully you have some time for this.  When you say "strain" - but because you're ignorant you say "strand' - do you mean serotype?

tomato tomato, get over and focus on the main point lol YAWN!

Quote
If you can't clarify what you mean...then just admit you don't know what you're talking about.
The mosquito bite is the deadliest bite in the USA, #1 killer. Do I even have to explain this too you? Where is the vaccination to that with your syringe?

Quote
So nobody knows how something works on the outside.

LOL, MAN!

-if you don't know how a TV works
-if you don't know how a radio works
-if you don't know how an automobile works
-if you never know how a an HVAC thermostact works
-if you never know how an induction works
-if you never know how AC DC electricity works
-if you never know how the speed of light works
-if you never know how reproduction works
-if you never know how an LCD with it's sub-pixels work
-if you never know how computers work
-if you never know how muscles work

ETC!

Yeah, like you say, nobody knows...except you...lol











Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 24, 2015, 07:23:54 AM
Quote from: orbut 3000
Often but not always
the TRUTH leads to
new insights and
interesting text formatting
schemes.


For adult and open minded
citizens who rightfully
distrust the evil mainstream
media, the following link
may be helpful to widen
their intellectual horizon.


 The TRUTH  (http://www.theonion.com/articles/i-dont-vaccinate-my-child-because-its-my-right-to,37839/)

Excellent link.  I love her attitude and of course she's
absolutely correct in her priorities.

In order to extricate one's flesh and blood soul from the
Jurisdiction which desires to make vaccinations mandatory
for all 'Persons' one must understand the LEGAL NAME
Deception.

When a flesh and blood living soul provides Identification or
verbally identifies as a LEGAL NAME ENTITY (with a NUMBER)
jurisdiction is presumed and force may be applied to achieve
compliance.

We must learn how to properly identify as flesh and blood living
souls which are outside the LEGAL NAME JURISDICTION.  Fortunately
it is not difficult.

The LEGAL NAME PERSON (with NUMBER) is a creation of the State
and is the PERSON authorities are seeking when they ask "Do you
have ID?" or "What is your NAME?"  Upon receiving an ID they'll ask
"Is this you?" or "Is that you?"  It is a trap.

Joel321,

You're doing just fine.  Excellent really.
Holding your high ground very effectively.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 24, 2015, 08:07:14 AM
a sick person with the flu person coughing to the ground will not infect the person that is standing in front of him or her.
"coughing to the ground" - LOL.
Quote
Can you you show me the STATISTICS that you are blabbering about?
Which statistics are you talking about?  Have you ever considered putting useful information in your questions?  No?
Quote
Did you put on the mask PROPERLY?
I didn't put on a mask.  Do you really not understand what I wrote? 
Quote
No matter what you say, a VACCINE IS A TYPE OF FILTER!
Out of curiosity, do you ejaculate every time you type the word "filter"?  Because you seem to enjoy using it way to much.  In any case, before you were saying that filters were better than vaccines.  Now you're saying vaccines are filters.  It's not a very useful way to argue a point...assuming you have a point.   
Quote
You say A vaccine FILTERS out the flu virus...right?
No.  It provides resistance to disease.  Is that a filter?  Not in any way similar to the way the term was being used at the beginning of your blather.
Quote
I know this since the flu virus DOES NOT filter out all flu virus strains but just the “predominant”
"The flu virus doesn't filter out all of the flu virus"?!?  I'm not even sure what language you are attempting to speak there.  Let's assume it's English and you mean to say something about vaccines.  Vaccines are designed to provide resistance to most of the viruses you are likely to encounter.  This is done using a number of complicated models.  However that doesn't mean they don't provide protection to other less likely viruses.
Quote
Where a human gets infected with all of these FILTERS all over the place is either from uneducated or stupid, which correlates with uneducated.
There are lots of vectors for infection which are not necessarily from someone being stupid.
Quote
You seem to be SCARED about viruses, thats a disorder in the mind!
Not by any useful standard.
Quote
Second, you are telling me if there is a human being that has never had vaccinations his/her entire life, he/she is carrying more viruses than your body is!?
English please. 
Quote
"the vast majority of health care workers are vaccinated "

how do you know this?
The CDC posts HCP vaccination coverage in the US.  Various provinces in Canada publish this information too.
Quote
Too many BS you talk!
It's called "reading".  Try it!
Quote
Perhaps you need to be open minded and see what a FILTER is.
It's not about being "open minded".  You are trying to communicate something.  Right or wrong?  If I'm right then based on your whining it seems like you are attempting to communicate an idea that is in contrast to some of the prevailing ideas about vaccination.  In which case it makes sense to attempt to make your argument as clear as possible.  One way to do that is to avoid using the same term in many different senses.   
Quote
In fact, explain the purpose of a filter?
Not interested.  Sorry.  Same as "born" questions. :)
Quote
Can you explain how you where born? That is what I mean by BORN since that is the ONLY concept of what humans can understand about being BORN.
I think you need to use a word different than "born".  Try it. :)
Quote
You seem to be TOO LITERALL, if I tell you “you owe me 50 bucks” you are going to give me 50 deer animals? Stop being LITERAL.
Well a) that's not a very good example of being literal and b) Your English is worse than a child's.  It seems deliberate but let's put that aside for the moment.  I'm saying that when you are trying to communicate something in a language you are exceptionally bad at - you should be careful and clear about what you say.  You are saying that you can be careless.  Does that seem like a good idea to you?
Quote
Correction, MILLIONS of viruses or it could be GOOLELLIONS.
I wasn't talking about the total number of viruses.
Quote
Oh do tell which viruses?
So if the primary site for an infection is say the lungs.  You'll develop symptoms.  That infection can clear but a secondary site can persist.  So you will be symptomatic - febrile, weak, aches but less infectious. 
Quote
How where you born?
Not answering "born" questions and certainly not answering questions of dubious relevance.

Quote
A flu virus may be blocked by a t-shirt weave
Just not very well.  As I said 90% is a reasonable extrapolation.
Quote
Well lets operate with no masks on on everyone doctors.
Nobody is advocating that.  Please try to read what I write.  It's just a thought. :)
Quote
YES! Since we all exist because of the EVERYTHING!
Which isn't a very useful argument.
Quote
What vaccinated the dinosaurs or the plantum that the dinosaurs “evolved” from?
English please.
Quote
I know you and me both think alike
Your best insult yet. :)
Quote
you just seem to closed minded.
LOL.  You have been wrong about so many things in this thread and you haven't admitted one.  The only thing you know how to say is that you are 100% right.  You are the most close minded person of all. :-)
Quote
you must be blind not to see what I mean by STRAND lol
More likely, I just know way more than you do.  As a rule of thumb if you think something is simple it's sometimes because you are so ignorant you don't see the complexities.  For you I suspect it's almost all the time. :-)
Quote
is not the mere fact of REPLICATING a form of eating?
Nope.
Quote
And how do you know the viruses do not eat?
How about first.  You define "eat".
Quote
How do you know that there are not obese viruses and no anorexic ones?
That doesn't mean anything useful. :-)
Quote
Well there is a little thing called we learn from past experiences!!!
So you think viruses have a will and they are conscious on some level?
Quote
ok, tell me what is an immune system?
So when you asked the question.  You had no idea what you were talking about?  Figures. :-)
Quote
No you are at fault for not teaching me.
I am simply not the perfect teacher and you are an exceptionally bad study.  My apologies. :-)
Quote
you seriously do not understand the word to be BORN? You came out from a females ! Thats being born for you!
Are you saying that viruses come out of female viruses?  Are you saying there are male and female viruses? :-)
Quote
NO! my Spanish is evolving to English.
You acted like I should have known.  So either you KNEW the English word and are lying now or you lied when you acted like I should have known what you were talking about.  Let me know which lie you told...faker!
"strand" is an English word.  So you can't google "What does strand me in English".
Quote
tomato tomato, get over and focus on the main point lol YAWN!
They are not the same thing.  So again I'm asking you a question about what you mean.  In order to help give you the information you want and you are refusing.  So again your ignorance is really not my fault.
Quote
The mosquito bite is the deadliest bite in the USA, #1 killer
If you say so jack.

Quote
-if you don't know how a TV works
-if you don't know how a radio works
-if you don't know how an automobile works
-if you never know how a an HVAC thermostact works
-if you never know how an induction works
-if you never know how AC DC electricity works
-if you never know how the speed of light works
-if you never know how reproduction works
-if you never know how an LCD with it's sub-pixels work
-if you never know how computers work
-if you never know how muscles work
Well apparently you don't know how reading English works.  Perhaps you can try that one again.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 24, 2015, 08:10:27 AM
You're doing just fine.  Excellent really. Holding your high ground very effectively.
I especially like how he has to call everything a filter.  Joel is easily the most fun I've had here in a while.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 24, 2015, 09:48:56 AM




-if you don't know how a TV works
-if you don't know how a radio works
-if you don't know how an automobile works
-if you never know how a an HVAC thermostact works
-if you never know how an induction works
-if you never know how AC DC electricity works
-if you never know how the speed of light works
-if you never know how reproduction works
-if you never know how an LCD with it's sub-pixels work
-if you never know how computers work
-if you never know how muscles work

ETC!

Yeah, like you say, nobody knows...except you...lol

You forgot the dish washer.  You asked me if I knew how to fix a dishwasher, and I replied.  (correctly I might add)  Then, you said that you asked if I knew how a dishwasher worked.  Of course I did otherwise, how would I be able to repair one?

You did not like this answer so, I can not help that.  Then you went on a rant about JB Weld, and other epoxies not working.  You were proven wrong yet, you still cling to your wrong beliefs.

Oh well, I can't help that.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: ramset on January 24, 2015, 10:30:25 PM
Sarc
I brought you a movie and some info,get your own popcorn.


start the movie from the beginning please


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKfbkeQyw84 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKfbkeQyw84)[/font][/size]


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2792370/aluminium-poisoning-brains-causing-alzheimer-s-professor-claims.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2792370/aluminium-poisoning-brains-causing-alzheimer-s-professor-claims.html)
------------------------------------------------
thx
Chet
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 25, 2015, 12:34:20 AM
I brought you a movie and some info,get your own popcorn.
I will try to watch it in a couple of hours but as I've said before I don't like watching videos to learn something and I have a low tolerance for crazy.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 25, 2015, 01:03:48 AM
Sarc
I brought you a movie and some info,get your own popcorn.


start the movie from the beginning please


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKfbkeQyw84 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKfbkeQyw84)[/font][/size]


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2792370/aluminium-poisoning-brains-causing-alzheimer-s-professor-claims.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2792370/aluminium-poisoning-brains-causing-alzheimer-s-professor-claims.html)
------------------------------------------------
thx
Chet

Is this fellow in the video seriously suggesting that we add more sand into our diet?  We need to eat more sand...right?  I did not think that the body can make use of silica.  Who knew?

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on January 25, 2015, 01:35:49 AM
Is this fellow in the video seriously suggesting that we add more sand into our diet?  We need to eat more sand...right?  I did not think that the body can make use of silica.  Who knew?

Bill
That's ironic.  One of the treatments for silicosis is aluminum powder.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 25, 2015, 01:38:14 AM
That's ironic.  One of the treatments for silicosis is aluminum powder.

Side effect:  Afterward, you won't know sh!t from putty.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MasterPlaster on January 25, 2015, 01:48:39 AM
Who needs a vaccine when you've got this? All women are asking for this now!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2924101/Miracle-daily-diet-jab-2-drug-helps-lose-19lbs-available-NHS-months.html
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 25, 2015, 03:47:49 AM
A couple of things on the outset.  One is that the Vaccine Safety Conference is something of a crank-fest.  Wakefield who probably received the harshest penalty for a middling-to-poor paper about virtually nothing spoke there.

Also If you are giving a 45 minute lecture which is very important (He said it is about "saving the world") is it reasonable to spend over a fifth of that time in meandering nonsense?  Here is what happens in that time:

i) There are real adverse effects of vaccines.
ii) Almost all vaccines use some kind of aluminum as an adjuvant.  So we have a common factor
iii) Some biogeochemical graphic which somehow got published in a journal.
iv) Aluminum was not part of the human lifecycle until the 19th century.
v) If something is abundant then it must also be essential and this is a paradox.
vi) Bioavailability of aluminum has increased.
vii) Some reference to the "natural selection of aluminum" whatever that means.

So from the top.  I have no problem with i) - for example GBS is a real, verifiable adverse effect to vaccination.  Statement ii) is ridiculously ignorant.  Regardless of what crank blog you are reading the adverse effects you have deluded yourself into believing are harder to detect than GBS by simple nature that we can actually show a clear correlation between GBS and vaccination and it's difficult to impossible to show a clear correlation between vaccination and say autism.

So ceteris paribus all of those effects have to be less likely than GBS.  However GBS can't be caused by aluminum.  We know this because GBS is highly correlated with influenza.  Which is why it correlates - to a lesser degree - to the vaccine.  So here we have a real adverse effect, far more likely than any of the ones proposed by the cranks but aluminum plays no part.  Statistically that's hard to rationalize with someone saying "Aluminum is an enormous problem with vaccines".

His abundance implies necessity assertion in v) is a fallacy.  My guess as to how the rest of the talk goes is he makes some broad claims about a mechanism and then points to some cases where his predicted effect seemed to happen.  Which is the wrong approach - unless all you're interested in is convincing yourself or if you're preaching to the choir.  The right approach would be to start with epidemiology, then propose a mechanism, then do another *distinct* epidemiological study to validate your results. i.e. if our mechanism works with injected vaccines then can we see the same effect in people who's blood levels are at the vaccine injected levels.

But you won't see any of that because work like that is expensive, difficult to do well and probably incorrect.

If someone who has gone through the whole thing wants to pull out some amazing revelation.  I'm all ears but for now I'd rather watch: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL86F4D497FD3CACCE

Which probably earns me some vague ageist disparagement from SeaMonkey
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 25, 2015, 11:43:41 AM
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Not really.

Do you make the “cure” before the illness happens? Lol

Tell me not really.

 
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English please.


You are sounding like a racists person TO BE HONEST!

Where do you hear in the USA say “English please!” to a 'foreigner?”

You are so stupid – you hve the flu and you cough on your wives/kid face, you cough towards the flood – do you really not understand that? I seriously find you sick in the brain sir!

100% sure the flu virus spreads via the sick coughing, I tell you the sick person should cough to the ground and you are arguing about that simple fact? UNREALL! Just by that simple thing, you have some stupid neurons in the brain!

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Look I'm sorry if you can't understand.  I'm not arguing something is true based on an anecdote.  I'm showing you from an experience of mine how masks are often useless.  It would be exceptionally difficult to avoid the virus because it would be in so many places.  Hence vaccination was the superior choice.

lol, you are so EGOTISTICAL that that will be the downfall of your life. You already mentioned that you are not an expert nor probably hav ever seen a virus under an electron microscope how they eat other viruses.

I tell you that people with the flu virus should aim to cough to the ground so they won infect the person next to them, and you argue with me about that? How stupid can you be, just the same as stupit people that believe that the flu virus magically spears!

I don't even know why i'm wasting my time with you. Maybe I need  in my life to entertain me.

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No, it was an example of how useless masks can be.

Seriously guy, you don't even know how masks work!  There is a screw loose in your head that would be the death of you!

You are like leaving a cult life! YOU SAY FILTERS DON”T WORK!!! When let me think:

-engines have fliters.
-computer hard drives have filters.
-lawn mowers have them
-animal nose have them
-HVAC have them

why do I even bother explaining to you this when you are stupid!?

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Sure but a) this is used in addition to vaccination - the vast majority of health care workers are vaccinated and often requiried to be so b) it's a circumstance where getting sick has a higher chance of serious impact  c) You often don't know if they are vaccinated or not. d) The most frequent place they are worn is in the OR and this is because when someone has their body cut open they are operating at a lower immune capacity.

So it's entirely different than the scenario you were describing.   

lol, you are a cult toward vaccines! I understand some vaccinations DO WORK and that it's obvious, what i'm trying to explain to you is the CORRUPTION regarding greed where they try to inject everyone mandatory!  That is my main point! I do believe in vaccines!!! I just don't like GREED where they treat humans as money making machines! This is OLDDDD mentality as we have seen from the past WOLDS RITCHES GUY IN THE WORLD – Carnegie...

i'm sure you are familiar with that history? Making workers work 12 hours a day 6 days a week?

Learn the history about the USA = j.p. morgan, tesla, carnegie, frick, rockafeller, edison, etc etc etc...HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO MENTIONED THAT YOU LEARN THE TRUTH! FROM THE PAST?

Your brain is not that big man! Lol

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Perhaps you need to take some deep breaths and then figure out what you mean by "filter".  I know all the procedures used by surgeons in North America when operating on HIV+ patients.  "filters" meaning anything that one would use to avoid influenza or avoid transmitting influenza is not really what is used.

lol, OMG, your brain is not really that smart. Time after time you fail to understand obvious concepts.

I'm already tired of explaining you anything and at this point I really find you really stupid to be honest!

I'm wondering know if you have some type of mental disorder! Seems like you are CULT like. Or you just like the attention i'm giving you and you will give me BS just so I can keep responding to you = no matter the truth I speakm you will always go against me! Yawn!

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Sorry I simply don't know what you mean by "born" and every time I talk about something to do with disease transmission you don't appear to understand.  So I apologize but I'm not going to answer any "born" questions.  Since they are effectively meaningless to me.  You can, if you want attempt to explain whatever moronic argument you are trying to make.

Look at this mothafukor not understanding the word TO BE BORN! Lol I already told him he was born from a vagina, and I should not even had to explain that to him. Born = coming out from a vagina!!! tell me you don't understand that again? Dumbo! Lol

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This doesn't really make any sense but that's probably because all the words that mean anything to anyone trained in medicine don't mean the same thing to someone like you who is trained in AC repair...or something.
Yeah that must be it. Or maybe your r lacking in neuron health.

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Thousands of viruses are virulent before they are symptomatic.  Lots of viruses are actually LESS virulent when the person is symptomatic.  Seriously think about it, even a cavepeople can see that the person who is coughing and wheezing is someone they shouldn't hang around.  So viruses have a selection pressure to be infectious before they cause symptoms.

I have been saying this already to you for a long time! Ohhh you are so smart! “ viruses are virulent before they are symptomatic” NO FUKEN SHYT, since the cirus is what causes the ILLNESS! Oh let me thing, a virus causes ill symptoms? NO SHYT! If there was no virus, there would be no “symptomatic” shyt! What are you smoking?

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Sorry I don't answer "born" questions.

0.0 ohhh ok, I will tell you, ur dad had  with your mom and the his spirm swam up to her overy eggs and only one was allowed to get in by YOU (lol) and then you where born and came out the female vagina!

Well, I don't know what BORN means either. That is the only reason we know what it means to be born! And that's what I mean by, what vagina was a virus born from? Lol

You don't know what born means? Are you 5 years old?

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Didn't have to there have been studies done on the transmission of viruses through surgical masks which are less permeable than your average T-shirt.  So I looked them up - that thing you never do - and extrapolated.

How many flu virus STRAINS go through a t-shirt when a person coughs?

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Your argument is that filters - which seem to mean everything that exists - are better than vaccination.  However even with the filters you describe people still get sick and we also know that if we vaccinate those people then they are less likely to get sick.  Hence your example was irrelevant to your point.  Please try and be less stupid.

First of all I'm nor ARGUING, if I was, I would be calling you a troll!

Second, even when vaccinated 60-60% you will still get sick since there is no 100% guaranteed or your money back vaccination!

No matter what you say, a vaccine is only a FILTER filtering out only one virus strain. = the predominant one and not the rest! Yawn!

What does that mean?

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Only is some usage irrelevant to the point.   Again, try to be smarter.

Is not the human SKIN not a FILTER of protection?

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Please define "strand" in some way that is actually useful.

How are flu viruses made each year and which flu virus gets the vaccine?

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Viruses aren't alive in that sense.  They replicate but do not eat.

Show me proof that viruses do not EAT today!

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Why do you believe that viruses have a sense of purpose?

Why do you believe that the don't?

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So you're saying you don't have a definition?

Tell me what is an immune system?

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Only partially, you are one of the worst students.

You are not even teaching anything teacher. It is your fault that you don't teach me your “brilliance”.  You don't know how to teach the students when it's up to you to teach the student!

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So sorry.  No "born" questions until you convince me that you know what you're talking about.

Here we go again, dick in V = born!

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Everyone's knowledge is finite - yours more than most - so everyone lives in a bubble of sorts.  Everything you learn becomes part of your bubble.  So nobody knows how something works on the outside
Yeah sure buddy! Lol

I can bet you 2000 dollars I can fix more things than you can and even prove it here with facts! You are the cocky person! Believing that your “understanding” about vaccines is LIFE. Vaccinate your automobile with a shot to make it run since gas engines are what takes ur dumb azz to work. and a virus gives the engine a virus when the check engine lights up! yawn!
You are seriously just taking up space in this world. lol
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: FatBird on January 25, 2015, 01:35:12 PM
                                                                                                                                                              .
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: FatBird on January 25, 2015, 04:18:35 PM
See:   Rense.com   for Huge News items.
                                                                                          .
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 25, 2015, 06:54:30 PM
CDC stoops to propagating disinformation and lies. (http://www.naturalnews.com/048391_measles_MMR_vaccines_Disneyland.html)

Who can be trusted?

The Love of Money is the root of all evil.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 25, 2015, 06:55:17 PM
Do you make the “cure” before the illness happens?
"filters" and by that I mean anti-infectious protective gear (See what I did there! I provided a definition to make it clear what I was talking about.  Generally do not work as well as someone who is immune.  Since you posed the question of X is better than Y - you are presupposing that Y exists.  If you are saying that X is better than Y when Y doesn't exist then it's a) not the situation we are talking about and b) trivial in a stupid way.
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You are sounding like a racists person TO BE HONEST!
I have no idea what race you are.  I just know that a number of your sentences don't make any sense. When they make sense I will respond as best as I can. :)   See, I just did. :)
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100% sure the flu virus spreads via the sick coughing
It does to a point.  It also spreads via direct and indirect surface contact. 
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I tell you the sick person should cough to the ground and you are arguing about that simple fact?
No, I was just laughing at how difficult and awkward your phrasing was.  However while we are on the subject there have been studies about various viruses and how long an area is potentially infectious after someone has coughed there.  Which
see viruses are really small and light so they are affected by smaller forces than you would expect.  So there is at least some reason to doubt that "coughing toward the ground" would have a significant effect.
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you are so EGOTISTICAL
No egotism is the idea that an idea is right because it is mine.  I believe that my ideas are right because I've read a lot about medical journal articles on the subject of viruses.  On the other hand, someone like you who DEMANDS THAT THEY MUST BE HEARD BECAUSE THEIR OWN OPINIONS ARE 100% RIGHT - that kind of person is closer to the definition of egotistical. :)
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probably hav ever seen a virus under an electron microscope how they eat other viruses.
Can you show me a picture of a virus eating?  That I would like to see.
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How stupid can you be
Again isn't this evidence that you're egotistical? You're saying that because I disagree with you I have to be stupid. :-)  To the extent I disagree with you is based on research I've read.  Sorry that you haven't read anything. :)
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I don't even know why i'm wasting my time with you. Maybe I need  in my life to entertain me.
Well I'm definitely talking to you because you're entertaining. :)
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Seriously guy, you don't even know how masks work!
Unnecessary.  There is pretty obvious evidence that protective gear -better than just masks - is not sufficient even when someone would nearly certainly die if they don't use it absolutely correctly.  Again in this case, I was vaccinated and the likelihood of being immune was far higher than a mask alone would have provided.
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You are like leaving a cult life! YOU SAY FILTERS DON”T WORK!!!
No I said that in that case a filter would have been virtually useless.  Different thing.  Take a statistics class. :)
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lol, you are a cult toward vaccines!
No I was pointing out how masks and other protective gear are used in hospitals and why because I know this and you apparently don't.  Then you went and had some kind of whine-fest about greed or something. :)
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OMG, your brain is not really that smart.
I never said it was.  You are just wrong about a lot of things. :-)  All I've explained is that you said that filters are used when operating on HIV+ patients.  I said because we are talking about flu (and other) vaccinations vs. some countermeasures that you are terribly bad at describing.  I demonstrated that what is used in the OR for HIV+ is entirely different. :-)
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Born = coming out from a vagina!!!
So when ask me "How are viruses born?" you mean "How are viruses coming out from a vagina?"

Not what I would have expected. :-)
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I have been saying this already to you for a long time!
Not really.  I said this and you said "Do tell, which viruses?" - which in English implies that you don't believe this.
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Well, I don't know what BORN means either.
Well that explains why you can't use it very clearly.
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How many flu virus STRAINS go through a t-shirt when a person coughs?
Very likely proportional to the number that the person coughs.  Since when you buy medical filters virus type is correlated by size which in turn is correlated to genome size. Influenza strains all have roughly the same sized genome.

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First of all I'm nor ARGUING
Yes you are.  Look it up in a dictionary. :-)
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Second, even when vaccinated 60-60% you will still get sick
Nope.  Also perhaps you should stop faking poor English.
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since there is no 100% guaranteed
There is no 100% countermeasure for viruses.
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No matter what you say, a vaccine is only a FILTER filtering out only one virus strain
Nope.  Sorry this is wrong.
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the predominant one and not the rest!
Already proved wrong. 
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Is not the human SKIN not a FILTER of protection?
Not in a sense useful to the discussion about wearing masks vs. vaccination. :-)
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and which flu virus gets the vaccine?
The implication here is that only one and exactly one virus gets a vaccine which is why knowing what a serotype is important but you were too busy being stupid to differentiate. :-)
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Show me proof that viruses do not EAT today!
First define what "eat" means.  :-)
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Why do you believe that the don't?
Because when English speakers use the term "purpose" it implies *intent*.  Which requires a mind. :-)  Are you saying that viruses think?
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Tell me what is an immune system?
So you won't answer.   Awesome! Thanks for just showing me that you were full of shit. :-)
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You are not even teaching anything teacher.
Says the person with their fingers in their ears. ::)
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I can bet you 2000 dollars I can fix more things than you can and even prove it here with facts!
Who gets to define what "things" are me or you? :-)
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You are the cocky person!
Says the person who constantly says they know something to be 100% true and calls people who disagree because they read a study in a medical journal stupid.  I'm pretty sure you're the arrogant one but you...you can only be 100% sure it's me. LOL!
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Believing that your “understanding” about vaccines is LIFE. Vaccinate your automobile with a shot to make it run since gas engines are what takes ur dumb azz to work. and a virus gives the engine a virus when the check engine lights up! yawn!
No idea what that means in English.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 25, 2015, 06:59:37 PM
CDC stoops to propagating disinformation and lies. (http://www.naturalnews.com/048391_measles_MMR_vaccines_Disneyland.html)

Who can be trusted?
Definitely not natural news. LOL.

Quote
The Love of Money is the root of all evil.
Ever notice how empty and vapid your posts are?  How they point to empty and vapid websites?  I like to think that people are judged on every empty word they speak. :)

Also in your military trained troll opinion.  Do you think FatBird is going too far with the large inflammatory graphics or is bigger always better. :)

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 25, 2015, 07:59:59 PM
...is bigger always better. :)

His wife tell him it isn't.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 26, 2015, 09:02:01 AM
Well i'm figuring out out these so called “experts” 1) milehigh, 2) pirate) 3)sarkeizen......who else is next lol...

We have milehigh trying to be an alpha male.

We have pirate trying to speak about JB welding stuff.

We have sarkeizen trying to be a doctor....lol

All lost causes.

Milehigh does not want people to spend their money to things he does not believe they work. He only goes against the fake people so you and I will not waste out money. Supposedly! Lol

then we have a pirate in here that STRINGLY belives that JB welding is the future for human kind! He believes he understand how dishwashers work because he JB welded a induction dishwasher motor once.

Then we have sarkeizen, a racist person that needs words to be spoon fed to him! e.g. “i don't know what you mean by BORN”!

Should I be really INTIMIDATED BY THESE PEOPLE? NOPE!!!! lol.

sarkeizen, i'm figuring you out easy bro lol! You seem to not stay on POINT, your mind gets distracted easy! you have ADD! You need drugs to cure it, did you go to the doctor today?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 26, 2015, 09:16:04 AM
CDC stoops to propagating disinformation and lies. (http://www.naturalnews.com/048391_measles_MMR_vaccines_Disneyland.html)

Who can be trusted?

The Love of Money is the root of all evil.

I have asked A LOT of people "Why don't the moonshiners in the TV show not gotten arrested?"

-They are "breaking" the law!
-You see them on TV committing the crime! = making moonshine!
-You see the people obviously drunk while driving or drunk while selling moonshine!

Yet they never get arrested not get a ticket and will be a next season episodes! Should not the moonshiners making suppose to be in jail and the REALITY TV producers get a HUGE fine for showing stupid felony stuff and not reporting it?

Milehigh, pirate, the other guy, can you explain WHY the mooshiners in the TV show have not been arrested while 100% sure they are doing illegal stuff? or are you going to tell me that they only acting! lol

I would like to hear your 100% facts!

All three of you give your opinion regarding why the TV show "moonshiners" is going!

I know this is a little out of topic, but in order to understand something, we need to look at things from every angle! SOOO explain away. Does not matter if you do it in a 'scientific' way! Just explain!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 26, 2015, 03:01:59 PM
We have sarkeizen trying to be a doctor....
Primarily when people say "doctor" they mean someone who does diagnosis.  I'm not doing that but you are.  Strange how your accusations seem to be more about yourself.  Mostly I'm telling you why I think you're wrong and on what evidence.  Your responses are generally: "I um 100% wright and you are rong stoopid". 

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needs words to be spoon fed to him! e.g. “i don't know what you mean by BORN”!
Yes.  I don't know what *you* mean and certainly ntot in reference to viruses.  I mean every time you say "_____ is what born means".  It's usually something that has nothing to do with viruses.
Quote
INTIMIDATED BY THESE PEOPLE? NOPE!!!!
AND YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE YOU TELL US IN CAPITAL LETTERS.
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You seem to not stay on POINT
Each and every part of something I post is directly and clearly related to the sentences you write as they are understood in English.  When your English is too crazy to be understood.  I tell you.  Exactly what is the problem?
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your mind gets distracted easy! you have ADD!
Who is trying to be a doctor again?  Seems like you.  a) Here are just some of the topics you have introduced: "How viruses get 'born'?", "'Filters' are better than vaccines", "Vaccines are 'filters"", "You are stupid if you don't understand me","T-shirts are highly effective viral filters", "HIV+ surgical techniques use filters", "You are egotistical", "Coughing 'to the ground' is an effective way to avoid infecting others", "Viruses eat", "Viruses have wills and purpose", "I am not making an argument", "Vaccines protect against one and only one STRAND (strain? serotype?)" .  "Viruses have an immune system", "You are too literal", "What vaccinated the dinosaurs?", "Some viruses are obese?", "You are a bad teacher.","I have no responsibility for learning things", "Mosquito bites are the #1 killer in the US", "Viruses get more dangerous when they mutate", "There are sub-atomic viruses", "I can understand anything you understand"....who has trouble staying on point?  Doesn't seem like me. :) b) An ADD diagnosis has a lot of facets and psychological disorders in general usually require an activity or habit which severely inhibits things the ability to participate in the normal activities of life - like taking a job.  Taking a complex diagnosis and pretending you can do it over the internet is exceptionally ignorant and insensitive to people who actually suffer from disease.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 27, 2015, 01:59:46 AM
I have asked A LOT of people "Why don't the moonshiners in the TV show not gotten arrested?"

-They are "breaking" the law!


No, they are not.

Quote

-You see them on TV committing the crime! = making moonshine!


No, they are not.

Quote


-You see the people obviously drunk while driving or drunk while selling moonshine!

Yet they never get arrested not get a ticket and will be a next season episodes! Should not the moonshiners making suppose to be in jail and the REALITY TV producers get a HUGE fine for showing stupid felony stuff and not reporting it?

Milehigh, pirate, the other guy, can you explain WHY the mooshiners in the TV show have not been arrested while 100% sure they are doing illegal stuff? or are you going to tell me that they only acting! lol

I would like to hear your 100% facts!

All three of you give your opinion regarding why the TV show "moonshiners" is going!



Ummm...and I can't really believe that you do not know this already....they are indeed actors and no crimes are committed.  What you see in those jugs is simply water.    All reality SHOWS are simply that...just shows...as in plays, not real, made up, pretend...etc.

I live in Kentucky and they film a lot of those shows here...all staged and fake.

100% facts.

Surely you knew this already...right?

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 27, 2015, 02:30:38 AM

I live in Kentucky and they film a lot of those shows here...


Bill

And the forum's arse kisser to the trolls ought to know.

He played the part of the inbred bozo playing the banjo in Deliverance...after getting turned down for the role which ultimately went to Ned Beatty.

Although he was really convincing in the iconic 'squeel like a pig scene' in rehersal.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 27, 2015, 11:18:21 AM
Quote
Ummm...and I can't really believe that you do not know this already....they are indeed actors and no crimes are committed.  What you see in those jugs is simply water.    All reality SHOWS are simply that...just shows...as in plays, not real, made up, pretend...etc.

I live in Kentucky and they film a lot of those shows here...all staged and fake.

100% facts.

Surely you knew this already...right?

Man I'm amazed at the things that come out of your mouth and I find them funny because they are ill!

Go visit “tickle” and watch him first hand get drunk and make moonshine! Or go over there to ask him for an autograph and ask him in wich other “reality” TV show he will be appearing next! Lol.

Everything that comes out of your mouth or you type 100% showns that you are not that smart man!

So you are telling me that “tickle” is an actor and only got hired based on his acting abilities of making moonshine?

On camera you have seen him hurt himself while drunk how many times?

You are living in a bubble man!

You need to stay in your bubble and stop talking that you know truth!

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 27, 2015, 12:16:21 PM
Quote
Primarily when people say "doctor" they mean someone who does diagnosis.  I'm not doing that but you are.  Strange how your accusations seem to be more about yourself.  Mostly I'm telling you why I think you're wrong and on what evidence.  Your responses are generally: "I um 100% wright and you are rong stoopid".

I'm honestly not trying to insult you! But ALL of the evidence that you write, you just ask to be insulted!
You get distracted easy that at this point I feel like you just are enjoin the attention more thT SPEAKING ABOUT TRUTH, o.0.
Quote
Yes.  I don't know what *you* mean and certainly ntot in reference to viruses.  I mean every time you say "_____ is what born means".  It's usually something that has nothing to do with viruses.
I honestly believe you are ill in the brain. Or your mom droped you while little and affected your memory!
I'm getting tired of explaining!
I'm over here explaining to you how you where born!!!!! ur dad fucked ur mom and the spirm went up her ovaries....after you asked me “i don't understand what you mean about BORN!”
Well IF YOU DON”T UNDERSTAND WHAT BORN MEANS THEN YOU ARE STUPID! Plain and simple!
Quote
Each and every part of something I post is directly and clearly related to the sentences you write as they are understood in English.  When your English is too crazy to be understood.  I tell you.  Exactly what is the problem?
Dude! You get everything out of context that I find it that you need more attention than everything else!!!!
I want to stay on point but you derail the train!
Trust me, I want to stay on point 100% but then you have no brain power too stay on it! So my only solution is to either convince you my ideas or make fun of you...but I see that making fun of u is a waste of time while I could spend that energy to teach others the truth.
Allow me to satisfy your ADD! It is really not a big deal just a waste of time! REPETITION!
Quote
"How viruses get 'born'?"
Quote
You have never answers that!
Quote
"'Filters' are better than vaccines", "Vaccines are 'filters""
What came first, vaccines or a virus? (rolls eyes)
Quote
"You are stupid if you don't understand me"

You are stupid if you don't understand your mind!
Quote
"T-shirts are highly effective viral filters"
Do you really not believe this is true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote
"HIV+ surgical techniques use filters"
Well OF COURSE!
Quote
"You are egotistical"
I seriously LEARN from mistakes and better from others, and SERIOUSLY, you are more bark than FACTS!
Quote
"Coughing 'to the ground' is an effective way to avoid infecting others"
When you debated agaisnt me regarding this, is when your egotistical showed!!
Quote
"Viruses eat"
Like you know if they don't?
Quote
"Viruses have wills and purpose"
Show proof they don't?
Quote
"I am not making an argument"
I'm only seeking truth! I don't want to argue with you IN FACT, I find it VERY HARD to convince you!
Quote
"Vaccines protect against one and only one STRAND (strain? Serotype?)"
Here we go again! The opposite would be, a vaccination pretects agaist all viruses!!! YAWN!!!
Quote
"Viruses have an immune system"
like you know they don't? Yawn!
Quote
"You are too literal"
well you are!
Quote
"What vaccinated the dinosaurs?"
How have they lived longer than human being with no medicine? Unless you belive they had doctors?
Quote
"Some viruses are obese?"

Yeah some are!!!
Quote
"You are a bad teacher."
Yeah you are!
Quote
"I have no responsibility for learning things"
No! I don't. You have the responsibility to teach me!
Quote
"Mosquito bites are the #1 killer in the US"
WELL they are! The second is deer! Dumb ass!
Quote
"Viruses get more dangerous when they mutate"
Well if they never got DANGERIOUS they would never MUTATE! You are clueless!
Quote
"There are sub-atomic viruses"
Yes there are! Do you thing Viruses just appear out of magic?
Quote
"I can understand anything you understand"
True facts!
Quote
An ADD diagnosis has a lot of facets and psychological disorders in general usually require an activity or habit which severely inhibits things the ability to participate in the normal activities of life - like taking a job.
Blab bla bla bla bla....ADD comes from TV commercials. GREED! Created ADD! I already know this 100%... video games gives kids autism....bla bla bla..
I'm already TIRED of you people being stupid and confused arguing about the ROOTS!!!!!!!
I think it comes to a point where you just need to go to sleep and not bother the great minds that try to help the WORLD!
Quote
Taking a complex diagnosis and pretending you can do it over the internet is exceptionally ignorant and insensitive to people who actually suffer from disease.
I'm fuken telling you how ADD is born! You should thank me! Or just let me help the person next to you....i'm 100% sure that ADD is caused by TV, radio commercials!!!
Your ADD does not make you see the cure! Yawn!
And then you will complain why you get bullied and encourage apposite marriage!
The stupidest person in the world has more  than the wolds most intelligent person in the world! Now tell me why that is?
I can respond to everything that you say and disect all your words, but at the end i'm disappointed. I see you as meh! 

1)milehigh 2)pirate 3)you
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 27, 2015, 03:33:00 PM
But ALL of the evidence that you write, you just ask to be insulted!
Nope.  The evidence I provide is relevant and reasonably clear and certainly can be made more so if you're confused or doubt something.
Quote
I'm getting tired of explaining!
Let me know when you start explaining.  Explanations usually involve MORE relevant information not less.  So far you've said that "born" means when I came out of my mother right?  However the original context for "born" was about viruses.  Do viruses have mothers?  See again you say:
Quote
ur dad fucked ur mom and the spirm went up her ovaries
Again, this can't be what you meant by "How are viruses born?" since viruses don't have sperm or ovaries.   Again, what makes me think you are faking your poor English is how you can't change the word you are using.  Why not say: "reproduce"or "replicate" if that's what you mean.  If it's not, look it up in a dictionary and find another word that applies to viruses.  Generally speaking we do not say that "A virus is born".
Quote
you derail the train!
Nope.  That's you.  I listed something like 23 different topics that YOU added to the discussion.  If you don't want to talk about those things.  Don't say them :) :) :) :) :)
Quote
Allow me to satisfy your ADD!
Dude.  ADD is a real disease, it can not be diagnosed over the internet. You aren't mocking me.  You are mocking people who suffer from a real disease and that is entirely uncalled for.  Please grow up.
Quote
ADD comes from TV commercials.
Exceptionally unlikely.
Quote
I already know this 100%.
*sigh* Which is why you will never be able to do what I can do.
Quote
video games gives kids autism
Wrong.  Autism is diagnosed long before most children play a video game.
Quote
I'm fuken telling you how ADD is born!
...and by born you mean something to do with sperm and ovaries.  Right? Does ADD have those things?  Again you've been given many chances to use other terms.  For example ages ago I used the term "risk factor" but you can't let go of the ambiguous term "born".  Probably because at least some of your language is an affectation.
Quote
You should thank me! Or just let me help the person next to you....i'm 100% sure that ADD is caused by TV, radio commercials!!!
Your ADD does not make you see the cure! Yawn!
And then you will complain why you get bullied and encourage apposite marriage!
The stupidest person in the world has more  than the wolds most intelligent person in the world!
*clap* *clap* *clap* That was amazingly crazy. 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 27, 2015, 03:33:55 PM
Soooooo SeaMonkey - you still defending Joel?  Are you with him in disparaging people who have real illnesses like ADD and autism?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 27, 2015, 09:16:03 PM
Affirmative!  Your contrived claim of disparagement
Sark holds no water.  Desperately lame... :o ::)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 27, 2015, 09:31:48 PM
Affirmative!  Your contrived claim of disparagement
Soooooo....you think it's okay to say that someone who is suffering from a disease with a complicated etiology/pathogenesis is really just someone who "watched too much TV".

You don't think that's trivializing their suffering?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 28, 2015, 12:38:48 AM
Quote from: Sark-Eizen
Soooooo....you think it's okay to say that someone who is suffering from a disease with a complicated etiology/pathogenesis is really just someone who "watched too much TV".

You don't think that's trivializing their suffering?

Sark,

Your deflections are just too basic and transparent. 8) ::)

It has nothing to do with anyone's suffering and
entirely to do with your forum behavior. :o ;)

Get a real job! :)

Acquire some experience and wisdom! :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 28, 2015, 12:51:26 AM
It has nothing to do with anyone's suffering
So you don't think people with ADD or autism are suffering? :) 
or is it ok to use those people in a vain attempt to put someone else down? :)

Please let us know.  You really, really seem to say it's ok to use someone elses suffering to insult someone else.  Right?  That is the SeaMonkey way.  Right? :)

LOL
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 28, 2015, 01:00:11 AM
So you don't think people with ADD or autism are suffering? :) 
or is it ok to use those people in a vain attempt to put someone else down? :)

Please let us know.  You really, really seem to say it's ok to use someone elses suffering to insult someone else.  Right?  That is the SeaMonkey way.  Right? :)

LOL

*scatters a few nickles and dimes to bait shill*

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 28, 2015, 02:00:10 AM
Man I'm amazed at the things that come out of your mouth and I find them funny because they are ill!

Go visit “tickle” and watch him first hand get drunk and make moonshine! Or go over there to ask him for an autograph and ask him in wich other “reality” TV show he will be appearing next! Lol.

Everything that comes out of your mouth or you type 100% showns that you are not that smart man!

So you are telling me that “tickle” is an actor and only got hired based on his acting abilities of making moonshine?

On camera you have seen him hurt himself while drunk how many times?

You are living in a bubble man!

You need to stay in your bubble and stop talking that you know truth!

Sure, that is why "Tickle" has been studying acting and appearing in plays and local commercials until his "big" break.  Have you never seen an actor portray (as in fake, pretend, imitate) someone being drunk?  No actor ever has played a character that has imbibbed too much?  Never ever before?

I can't wait to tell the fellows at work that I met a guy online that actually thinks Moonshiners is actually real, ha ha.  They will most likely not believe me so I will print out a copy of your post as proof.  (Proof...get it?  As in 90 proof, 100 proof..etc?

I do not know what fantasy world you are living in but...Superman can not really fly...that is just acting.  Batman is not real.  Those are actors that go to jail on Law & Order, not real criminals.  Dragnet was not real.

The only real "shine" on that Show is Tim Smith's Moonshine, which is available at certain liquor stores.  You can buy this legally because it is made legally.
Have you ever had moonshine Joel?  Have you not seen the fat kid on that show tip up and drink an entire quart canning jar of "shine" all at once?  That should have been a clue.  If he, or anyone, did that...they would be dead.  I have had real moonshine many times and, it was illegal.  But, it was an emergency situation and I needed it for medicinal purposes.

Bill

PS  Professional wrestling is not real either.  Ever hear of Hillbilly Jim?  (Jim Morris)  He lives here in town and I used to work out with him.  He is real, Professional wrestling, not so much.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 28, 2015, 07:12:38 AM
Sarkeizen, I speak in terms of the whole picture in general. That is where the truth lies. The whole purpose of a goal whether it be applying for a job or going to the moon! The ULTIMATE goal is the finish line.

There is a communication boundary between you and me. It is both in the English language and also in the personal beliefs! And that is why I know that what I speak is correct. On everything that I do be it personal or professional, I always FOCUS on the ULTIMATE GOAL. I never get distracted from the ultimate goal of everything. That is “evolution”! When you start to chop off my sentences and drift of from the ULTIMATE GOAL you just derail the main point that at this point, we are not even talking about the main point. Transfer the scientific mentality to the way you think too snce our brain thoughts do mental science too. For example, the nerves. I'm newly born and I touch fire I get burn hence the brain and nerves tell the conscious mind that fire is bad to touch = mental science.

At this point I don't see your ULTIMATE GOAL. What is your ultimate goal?

I'm going to respond to you but it's too way out of context right now since you just keep on chopping up my main points. Which now just is more for the entertaining human purposes rather than actually learning the ULTIMATE GOAL.

Quote
Nope.  The evidence I provide is relevant and reasonably clear and certainly can be made more so if you're confused or doubt something.

When I tell you that when having the flu virus in the body coughing to the ground or coughing inside your shirt will prevent 80% of contamination and you tell me NO! I kind of question you mentality as a “professional”.

Quote
Let me know when you start explaining.  Explanations usually involve MORE relevant information not less.  So far you've said that "born" means when I came out of my mother right?  However the original context for "born" was about viruses.  Do viruses have mothers?  See again you say:

Ok...tell me from where viruses come from? Explain to me how the virus is CREATED? Lol

Quote
Again, this can't be what you meant by "How are viruses born?" since viruses don't have sperm or ovaries.   Again, what makes me think you are faking your poor English is how you can't change the word you are using.  Why not say: "reproduce"or "replicate" if that's what you mean.  If it's not, look it up in a dictionary and find another word that applies to viruses.  Generally speaking we do not say that "A virus is born".

OK I understand what you mean but you have to understand what I mean in general since I don't speak the science language. Do you even understand how lawyers write their English. When you sign a contract/agreement, do you really understand what they mean 100%? no! Since you don't speak their language. The same applies to everything.

So yes, I'm using regular everyday language talking about how viruses “reproduce” or “replicate”. And I'm sure you figured that out a while back.

So now explain to me how viruses “reproduce”?

Explain to me how the flu virus is born and why can't we have a cure for it?

Quote
Nope.  That's you.  I listed something like 23 different topics that YOU added to the discussion.  If you don't want to talk about those things. 

All I see is the ULTIMATE GOAL no matter what words thefiine the ultimate goal, the goals goal cannot change. That's all.

Quote
Dude.  ADD is a real disease, it can not be diagnosed over the internet. You aren't mocking me.  You are mocking people who suffer from a real disease and that is entirely uncalled for.  Please grow up.

Are we talking about the same ADD = Attention Deficit Disorder?

That is not a “disease” unless you can tell me what virus causes it?

ADD is due to TV commercials, magazine commercials, radio commercials, ADVERTIZING!

We can even do a study about this very simple. Your unconscious mind is manipulated by advertising, you probably see the same commercial 40 times a day x 6 days a week = ?

This gives people ADD! Or is it a virus? You tell me!

Quote
Exceptionally unlikely.

you need to give a little more effort than just be so bland, that is not scienfitic mind!

Quote
Wrong.  Autism is diagnosed long before most children play a video game.

The ULTIMATE GOAL is that you don't know what causes it! Also, the ultimate goal is that you don't have a cure for it plain and simple.

What causes autism?

Quote
...and by born you mean something to do with sperm and ovaries.  Right? Does ADD have those things?  Again you've been given many chances to use other terms.  For example ages ago I used the term "risk factor" but you can't let go of the ambiguous term "born".  Probably because at least some of your language is an affectation.

Born, came to be, frutify, “big banged”, they are just words. By now you should know what I mean by born from a person that does not speak scientific language. Your only understand would be “replicated” right?

I don't get distracted from the main ULTIMATE GOAL. So let me change my “born” word to “replicate” in the virus world.

Tell me how they replicate? And from where the virus came to existance in the first place?

Quote
*clap* *clap* *clap* That was amazingly crazy. 
Well next year when you get the flu (most likely a lot of flu strain) your coworkers, family members, friends, acquaintances, strangers, will not get the flu virus if you cough to the floor or cough inside your t-shirt. Sick people are also responsible to prevent the virus spreading too.

I'm trying to tell people here that if you get the flu virus to cough down to the floor and/or cough inside your t-shirt, you are telling me that I'm not giving good advice?

Am I wrong about that advice?

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 28, 2015, 07:54:43 AM
Lol Out Of Topic here.

Quote
Sure, that is why "Tickle" has been studying acting and appearing in plays and local commercials until his "big" break.  Have you never seen an actor portray (as in fake, pretend, imitate) someone being drunk?  No actor ever has played a character that has imbibbed too much?  Never ever before?

I've seen a lot of movies where an actor pretends to be drunk. What are you saying bro? Even jackie chang (the martial artist) has a movie called "drunken master." It's a good movie as entertainment material.

So your logic fails you man.

How can you tell when a person is really drunk?

Quote
I can't wait to tell the fellows at work that I met a guy online that actually thinks Moonshiners is actually real, ha ha.  They will most likely not believe me so I will print out a copy of your post as proof.  (Proof...get it?  As in 90 proof, 100 proof..etc?

Well you fail to see the real facts = you don't have evidence it is fake!

Quote
I do not know what fantasy world you are living in but...Superman can not really fly...that is just acting.  Batman is not real.  Those are actors that go to jail on Law & Order, not real criminals.  Dragnet was not real.

I think you don't understand the difference between fiction VS reality TV shows!

Quote
The only real "shine" on that Show is Tim Smith's Moonshine, which is available at certain liquor stores.  You can buy this legally because it is made legally.
Have you ever had moonshine Joel?  Have you not seen the fat kid on that show tip up and drink an entire quart canning jar of "shine" all at once?  That should have been a clue.  If he, or anyone, did that...they would be dead.  I have had real moonshine many times and, it was illegal.  But, it was an emergency situation and I needed it for medicinal purposes.

lol. The overall ULTIMATE GOAL speaks the truth, since it is a TV show they will through some fictional stuff in there fo the laughs = “Have you not seen the fat kid on that show tip up and drink an entire quart canning jar of "shine"....but then again have you seen the TV show “Stan Lee's Superhumans”? Go watch all episodes and tell me which is fake and which is real?

Quote
I have had real moonshine many times and, it was illegal.  But, it was an emergency situation and I needed it for medicinal purposes.

Oh bill you and your stories. lol
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 28, 2015, 05:57:00 PM
It is both in the English language
Where your problems sound increasingly made up. :)
Quote
I never get distracted from the ultimate goal of everything.
You did bring up 23 different topics which you then blamed on me and then used to claim I had ADD.  Which disparaged ADD sufferers by using their disease as a way to put someone down.  So if you NEVER get distracted then the 23 topics were entirely on topic and my responses were of course on topic and you had no reason to pretend that I have ADD.

But you still need to apologize to ADD sufferers. :)
Quote
our brain thoughts do mental science too
Our brains allow us to perceive experiences.  However only abstract concepts like rationality, logic and math actually let us do science.
Quote
At this point I don't see your ULTIMATE GOAL. What is your ultimate goal?
To try to correct your mistakes for your edification, the edification of others and my immense amusement because talking to you SeaMonkey, realstupidcanandian makes for interesting stories to tell people. :) :) :)
Quote
When I tell you that when having the flu virus in the body coughing to the ground or coughing inside your shirt will prevent 80% of contamination and you tell me NO!
What I said was there have been studies of airborne viruses that show that coughing in an area allows for infection in that area.  Again your idea that if someone points their face toward the ground then all the majority of viruses are flung to the ground is based on a flawed "mental science" process.  Viruses are exceptionally small and light.
Quote
I don't speak the science language.
Then look it up or I'm not here to do your homewo rk for you.  You are expected to do some work.
Quote
Do you even understand how lawyers write their English. When you sign a contract/agreement, do you really understand what they mean 100%? no!
Arbitrarily stupid standard of evidence.  In any sufficiently complex language structure you could claim that people do not have 100% confidence.  However if in your "language of the deliberately stupid" you mean "Do you have a good understanding of legal terms and language" then the answer is yes.  A portion of my job involves reading contracts.
Quote
So yes, I'm using regular everyday language
No you are completely definitely absolutely not using "everyday English". You would rarely,in English say "A virus is born" so by definition it is not "everyday language".  You are using the "language of the deliberately stupid" which is what I'll call this from now.   
Quote
talking about how viruses “reproduce” or “replicate”. And I'm sure you figured that out a while back.
If you knew those terms and knew them so well that you knew they are synonymous with what you tried to express with "born" why did you fight so hard to use born?  Why did you use stupid analogies that had to do with vaginas and ovaries?  See as someone who spends a lot of time around people who don't speak English very well.  This sounds like you were faking. :)
Quote
So now explain to me how viruses “reproduce”?
Viruses reproduce by using cells there are somewhere between 7 and 12 mechanisms that we know of depending on how we are counting.
Quote
Explain to me how the flu virus is born
I don't answer "born" questions.  Please rephrase. ::)
Quote
and why can't we have a cure for it?
Poorly phrased.  A virus is not a disease.  You have probably a number of samples of plant and animal viruses in your body right now.  They aren't replicating so they aren't a problem.  "Can't" presupposes some medical knowledge that we don't have.
Quote
All I see is the ULTIMATE GOAL
...but you introduced 23 different topics. :)
Quote
Are we talking about the same ADD = Attention Deficit Disorder?
Yes.
Quote
That is not a “disease” unless you can tell me what virus causes it?
That is neither the colloquial or clinical definition of the term "disease".  ADD is a disease in English.
Quote
ADD is due to TV commercials
Absolutely no evidence for that belief and considerable evidence against it.  Epidemiology for ADD does not increase commensurately with television use.  TV's per capita peaked somewhere in the 1980's in the US however the DSMIV ADD peaked in 2000.
Quote
We can even do a study about this very simple. Your unconscious mind is manipulated by advertising, you probably see the same commercial 40 times a day x 6 days a week = ?
Nope.  You need to read a kids book on experiment design.  Even if your experiment yielded some result it does not necessitate the conclusion and the conclusion does not necessitate your hypothesis. 

Try reading: http://www.amazon.ca/Art-Science-Activities-Christine-Publications/dp/B00EKYP44E/ref=sr_1_5?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1422454055&sr=1-5&keywords=%22the+art+of+science%22+kids

Also as I don't watch TV or radio with commericals this wouldn't apply to me.  Again your thinking is more like 5 degrees rather than 360. :) :)
Quote
you need to give a little more effort than just be so bland, that is not scienfitic mind!
Actually this is science.  I've assigned a probability to something based on observations which have been randomized.
Quote
The ULTIMATE GOAL is that you don't know what causes it!
I think you need to look up what a "goal" is.  "know what causes" is the wrong phrase.  More accurately we don't know enough of the risk factors to be able to predict nor do we know enough about the mechanism to interfere with it's development.
Quote
What causes autism?
Primarily genetics but it's plausible that there's an series of environmental factors.
Quote
Born, came to be, frutify, “big banged”, they are just words. By now you should know what I mean by born from a person that does not speak scientific language.
Few of those words are ordinary English terms regarding viruses one of them isn't even in an English dictionary.  Even where I could construe a meaning the terms and phrases you are using refer more to ontology than replication. So this isn't a question of "not speaking scientific terms" it's a question of you speaking the "language of deliberately stupid".
m differ from "replicate" and "reproduce" in a significant way.  All of them imply ontology rather than replication.
Quote
Your only understand would be “replicated” right?
If you mean "replicated" then say "replicated". 
Quote
I don't get distracted from the main ULTIMATE GOAL.
You appeared to get distracted 23 times...of course you blamed those on me.
Quote
Tell me how they replicate?
I mentioned this above already.
Quote
And from where the virus came to existance in the first place?
Which virus?
Quote
family members, friends, acquaintances, strangers, will not get the flu virus if you cough to the floor or cough inside your t-shirt.
Again actual research says these things would not be as good as vaccination.
Quote
Am I wrong about that advice?
Unless you're moving from the GRAND ULTIMATE GOAL OF THE FOREVER PEOPLE :) then yes it's bad advice since vaccination is generally better.  However if you are shifting to yet another argument (i.e. Is this equal to or better than absolutely nothing) then you're probably not doing any harm.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 28, 2015, 05:59:00 PM
Again SeaMonkey we await your response to your apparent claim that Joel's claim that I have ADD is somehow not talking about ADD at all. 

I'm very, very, very interested in your views on this statement you appeared to make. :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 28, 2015, 08:44:20 PM
Quote from: Sark-Eizen
... Joel's claim that I have ADD is somehow not talking about ADD at all. 
...

During the course of discussion remarks are
quite often made which are 'tongue in cheek.'
Not intended to be taken literally.  But those
whose mission is to 'make mountains out of
molehills' will certainly try.  Pathetically. ??? ;) 8)

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Honza on January 28, 2015, 09:08:50 PM
"The vaccine establishment is desperate. The ghosts of their fraudulent science, manipulated research, misleading propaganda across mainstream media and in the blogosphere are returning to haunt the..."


http://www.globalresearch.ca/vaccine-mccarthyism-what-if-the-vaccine-paradigm-itself-is-deliberately-flawed/5427768
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 28, 2015, 09:25:40 PM
Vaccine risks we're not told about.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 28, 2015, 09:49:31 PM
During the course of discussion remarks are quite often made which are 'tongue in cheek.'
So you think serious diseases are something to joke about?

Again I'd really, really like to hear a clear "yes, this is ok" from you but you seem pretty shy about that.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 29, 2015, 02:07:54 AM
Lol Out Of Topic here.

I've seen a lot of movies where an actor pretends to be drunk. What are you saying bro? Even jackie chang (the martial artist) has a movie called "drunken master." It's a good movie as entertainment material.

So your logic fails you man.

How can you tell when a person is really drunk?

Well you fail to see the real facts = you don't have evidence it is fake!

I think you don't understand the difference between fiction VS reality TV shows!

lol. The overall ULTIMATE GOAL speaks the truth, since it is a TV show they will through some fictional stuff in there fo the laughs = “Have you not seen the fat kid on that show tip up and drink an entire quart canning jar of "shine"....but then again have you seen the TV show “Stan Lee's Superhumans”? Go watch all episodes and tell me which is fake and which is real?

Oh bill you and your stories. lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonshiners_%28TV_series%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonshiners_%28TV_series%29)

"Moonshiners is an American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) docudrama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docudrama) television series on the Discovery Channel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_Channel) that dramatizes the life of people who produce (illegal) moonshine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonshine) in the Appalachian Mountains (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_Mountains) of North Carolina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Carolina), Virginia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia), and South Carolina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Carolina). The series dramatizes their liquor production efforts, law-evading techniques and life.[1] There have been claims by local officials that the show is not what it portrays to be. Virginia authorities have stated that no illegal liquor is actually being produced by the people depicted in the show. The Virginia Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control (ABC) said in March 2012 that, "If illegal activity was actually taking place, the Virginia ABC Bureau of Law Enforcement would have taken action."[2] They also said that they had requested for the producers to add a disclaimer to clarify that the show was only a dramatization, "but the request was overlooked."[2]"


Docudrama, as in...NOT REAL.

See?

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 29, 2015, 02:22:09 AM
"The vaccine establishment is desperate. The ghosts of their fraudulent science, manipulated research, misleading propaganda across mainstream media and in the blogosphere are returning to haunt the..."
Yawn.  How many times do anti-vaccine people rehash the same myths, misunderstands and fabrications.  Do you want a point-by-point refutation?

Also Flulaval has at least two clinical efficacy trials and a number of safety trials.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 29, 2015, 02:52:41 AM
Do you want a point-by-point refutation?

No...but dollars to donuts, we're going to be subjected to one nonetheless.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 29, 2015, 04:35:51 AM
Quote from: Sark-Eizen
So you think serious diseases are something to joke about?

Again I'd really, really like to hear a clear "yes, this is ok" from you but you seem pretty shy about that.

Then one must ask why you do it;  why do you joke
about serious disease? :o ???

Your attempt to deflect seems amateurish and unskillful.
Some might even say juvenile. ??? ::)

The disease which is spread by vaccination is no laughing
matter. ::) :P :'(
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 29, 2015, 05:05:55 AM
Then one must ask why you do it;  why do you joke about serious disease? :o ???
I don't. :) But your squirms and deflections are interesting.

Again, I ask is it ok to make light of someone elses suffering.  Tongue in cheek or otherwise.
If yes, then man up and say it.  You've already boasted about getting military troll training right?  Why shy away from this?
If no, then you either believe that people with ADD are not suffering or that joel is wrong and you have trouble choking out those words. :)

I have time.  Let me know which one it is.  Until then I'll just keep on asking. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 29, 2015, 07:13:14 AM
Quote from: Sark-Eizen
...
Again, I ask is it ok to make light of someone elses suffering.  Tongue in cheek or otherwise.
...

It is truly sad that you are suffering so and of course any
who have compassion and empathy wish you well and
hope that you will in time overcome.

Is your suffering in any way related to your dismal performance
in this present discussion?  Are you distraught on account of
your seeming inability to garner support for your AGENDA?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 29, 2015, 07:31:52 AM
It is truly sad that you are suffering so and of course any
who have compassion and empathy wish you well and
hope that you will in time overcome.

Is your suffering in any way related to your dismal performance
in this present discussion?  Are you distraught on account of
your seeming inability to garner support for your AGENDA?

He may be frustrated and down to clinging to a repetitive off topic non issue...but he get paid nonetheless.

Whatever you do, don't start pressuring him to produce the unbiased data demonstrating the safety and effectiveness of injecting chemicals into the bloodstream of organic electric creatures, or he will put you on ignore like he and his arse kisser, the butt pirate did when I exposed them as the shill and his trusty dim witted lap dog.

He much prefers trying and convince you that the onus is on you to prove that chemical cocktails are not good for you.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 29, 2015, 09:36:25 AM
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Where your problems sound increasingly made up.

All through out the world businesses loose millions of dollars from lack of communication! I'm actually feeling guilty because I thought you knew these facts!

This is 100% facts! In the USA businesses loose millions of dollars due to not being able to communicate while speaking English!

Those poetic people take a lot of stuff out of context! It is facts! I'm not making this up.

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You did bring up 23 different topics which you then blamed on me and then used to claim I had ADD.  Which disparaged ADD sufferers by using their disease as a way to put someone down.  So if you NEVER get distracted then the 23 topics were entirely on topic and my responses were of course on topic and you had no reason to pretend that I have ADD.

But you still need to apologize to ADD sufferers.

hmmmmmm...the only blame I give you is that you are not able to see from all angles! That is all the blame I give you.

I'm just trying to seek truth for humanity! And you are just trying to seek truth for yourself!

I don't even know who told you that ADD is a disease?

I'm very certain that 80% of the people have it DUE TO TV. And i'm certain that most will get a pill prescription from having it = more confusion!

I don't feel the need to APOLOZIGE to anyone when i'm telling them how they get ADD in the first place, in FACT, I should be thanked! I/we can do some tests but I'm not getting payed to do tests, I work 40 hours a week regarding other things. And I have personal MONETARY issues I need to work on myself. But I see where ADD comes from, as bright as a sunny day!

The problem is convincing the masses!

The problem is that I was born genetically to see these things. I never wished to be this way when I was born!

ADD is not GENETIC or A VIRUS! ADD is MADE!

The cure is there but how can you stop smoking when they sell cigarettes all over the place? Think about that for a second.

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Our brains allow us to perceive experiences.  However only abstract concepts like rationality, logic and math actually let us do science.

You don't even understand where ADD or where viruses come from and you say this? I cannot take you seriously at all sir. Now you are trying to tell me that you know are an expert about the mind or psychology?

Stick with your EXPERTISE. Which to be honest, I'm not impress!

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To try to correct your mistakes for your edification, the edification of others and my immense amusement because talking to you SeaMonkey, realstupidcanandian makes for interesting stories to tell people.

Well there you go, you are an azz kisser. This has been proven for millions of years. Your mentality is not nikola, tesla, your mentality is that you can't wait to tell your “buddies” how stupid I am? Which really says it all. Another pirate person you are lol....sorry to laugh but there are greater mind then yours.

I can picture nikola tesla, “yeah, i'm only discovering mother natures powers so I can make fun of it!”

You think ME joel321 is Seamonkey? I don't even know who he/she is! I don't even care if I get "supported" emotionally by others!

So you fail regarding that! I'm joel321 a latino living in the USA.

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What I said was there have been studies of airborne viruses that show that coughing in an area allows for infection in that area.  Again your idea that if someone points their face toward the ground then all the majority of viruses are flung to the ground is based on a flawed "mental science" process.  Viruses are exceptionally small and light.

HUH! Seriously guy, the more you speak, the more you show your intelligence. How more simplistic can you get if one person gets sick with an airborne virus. NOT COUGHING TOWARDS THE OTHER PERSON 80% WILL NOT GET INFECTED! What are you even saying!?

Man! Your mind is not connecting all the dots!

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Then look it up or I'm not here to do your homewo rk for you.  You are expected to do some work.

ok, how would I know that I don't speak math language, brasil language, Chinese language, medical language, WEP wifi language, WAP2 wifi language, etc if I didn't know what language I speak?

I'm sorry but you are not speaking intelligence language at all!

Tell me what is a science language?

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Arbitrarily stupid standard of evidence.  In any sufficiently complex language structure you could claim that people do not have 100% confidence.  However if in your "language of the deliberately stupid" you mean "Do you have a good understanding of legal terms and language" then the answer is yes.  A portion of my job involves reading contracts.

hmmm...do you understand 100% what the contracts mean?

Even if they are in your native language?

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No you are completely definitely absolutely not using "everyday English". You would rarely,in English say "A virus is born" so by definition it is not "everyday language".  You are using the "language of the deliberately stupid" which is what I'll call this from now.   

I want to believe that I'm stupid! In fact sometimes I want to be stupid to experience “ignorance is bliss”. I call myself above average intelligence because I get tired of being called INTELLIGENT when I don't even fell INTELLIGENT. So my ONLY conclusion is that the people that call me intelligent are more stupid than I am. I don't feel intelligent at all I just see them as lower than average. And then I ask myself why am I being called INTELLIGENT or STUPID! Then I see how socialism works! Where their social CIRCLE the ALPHA male tells them that they are intelligent!

Blah blah blah, just because a stupid person tells me that i'm intelligent ONLY means that his stupidity is showing. Since to understand that you also have to understand how ALPHA males work.

Yara yara yara, at any rate, I am 80% sure that I can beat you regarding brain intelligence! I'm very confident regarding this!

How do you know i'm not using every day language?

Maybe because everyday language you are only judging from your LITTLE BUBBLE?

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If you knew those terms and knew them so well that you knew they are synonymous with what you tried to express with "born" why did you fight so hard to use born?  Why did you use stupid analogies that had to do with vaginas and ovaries?  See as someone who spends a lot of time around people who don't speak English very well.  This sounds like you were faking.

Here we go again. REPRODUCING is not the same as BORN. REPLICATE is not the same as BORN!  BORN! Comes first since reproducing is the mere fact of having ! The urge to REPLICATE!

A female and a male REPRODUCE! SO! Reproducing does not explain BEING BORN! Only how the sperm travels into the ovaries and etc etc etc...

DO you understand what is a root?

Reproduce! Or Replicate! Is not the root!!!!! get it?

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Viruses reproduce by using cells there are somewhere between 7 and 12 mechanisms that we know of depending on how we are counting.

Ok, I learned a lot from you this day. Lol

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I don't answer "born" questions.  Please rephrase.

LOL, and I thought I was talking to an “expert”. Lol your ignorance, sorry, is showing little by little.

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Poorly phrased.  A virus is not a disease.  You have probably a number of samples of plant and animal viruses in your body right now.  They aren't replicating so they aren't a problem.  "Can't" presupposes some medical knowledge that we don't have.

OHHH! That explains why we have cure the flu virus! Since that is what I asked and I got this! ok. Lol

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..but you introduced 23 different topics.

The way I see it is that i'm looking at things from 23 different angles and you are only looking at it from ONE angle.
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That is neither the colloquial or clinical definition of the term "disease".  ADD is a disease in English.

Who cares what colloquial or clinical definition, I only care what CAUSES IT!!!!

Tell me what causes ADD and tell me why there is a pill for it? TODAY!

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Absolutely no evidence for that belief and considerable evidence against it.  Epidemiology for ADD does not increase commensurately with television use.  TV's per capita peaked somewhere in the 1980's in the US however the DSMIV ADD peaked in 2000.

Well I cannot never proof my point because I cant never get rid of commercials. But i'm 100% that is the cause!

You just have no brain matter to think farther than your nose! But maybe if I care so much for the public I need your fighting spirit to convince the rest!

Are you really more ignorant than I am?

Do you not understand how commercials use repetition to ENGRAVE a mental picture to those donkeis chasing a carrot? In fact, commercials are a way of putting a carrot in front of a donkey to make it chase it!

How do you know you are not chasing a carrot donkey? Lol

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Also as I don't watch TV or radio with commericals this wouldn't apply to me.  Again your thinking is more like 5 degrees rather than 360.

ohhh ok, you always give half ass answers. This does not mean anything since advertising is true 100% to all people. What you imply is merely that you are somewhat educated to avoid ads. But the fact is that ads are all over the place – movies, magazines, tools, tv, cars, shoes, computers, etc etc etc.

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I think you need to look up what a "goal" is.  "know what causes" is the wrong phrase.  More accurately we don't know enough of the risk factors to be able to predict nor do we know enough about the mechanism to interfere with it's development.

Who's “we”?

Are you trying to speak for everyone else?

When you say “we” do you mean that others can't understand your stupidity? Lol

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Primarily genetics but it's plausible that there's an series of environmental factors.

lol this is so bland and sorry pathetic explanation of = I don't know!

In all honesty, you get confused easy. You drift from the MAIN POINT so far that you seem like you have the mentality of a girl.

You just have no mental power to even think outside your EGO.

Taking about what I mean by “born”.

ADD is a decease!

Coughing to a persons face while having the flu helps better than coughing to the ground!

If I get the flu virus I will never get the flu virus in my whole life!

I'm not an expert in medicine yet I speak like I am!

I get distracted easy because of ADD and forget easy what the main point is!

Maybe you need a reality check or maybe you need to change your mentality and help others with your stubbornness!







Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 30, 2015, 01:57:05 AM
I guess Joel will never admit he was wrong about the show Moonshiners.

He claimed it was 100% real, I proved that it is a docudrama and not real.  It is indeed off-topic but He brought it up in one of his nonsensical rants.  Maybe one day he will be right about something?

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 30, 2015, 02:27:28 AM
I guess Joel will never admit he was wrong about the show Moonshiners.

He claimed it was 100% real, I proved that it is a docudrama and not real.  It is indeed off-topic but He brought it up in one of his nonsensical rants.  Maybe one day he will be right about something?

Bill

So, the imbecilic arse kisser drones on about it some more.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 30, 2015, 02:32:14 AM
All through out the world businesses loose millions of dollars from lack of communication!
You're changing the subject again (#24).  What I was saying is that given that most of my family are not native English speakers and many of the people in my workplace aren't native speakers and that I've traveled a fair bit and that I've studied linguistics.  Your particular problems with English seem to be affectations. :)
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This is 100% facts!
Yawn.
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.the only blame I give you is that you are not able to see from all angles!
Wrong. :) You clearly said that I was changing the subject and because of that you deluded yourself into thinking I have ADD (which I'm going to use the more modern name ADHD from now on). 
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And you are just trying to seek truth for yourself!
I'm sure humanity will benefit.  For example you are very amusing to talk to.  That benefits humanity - it makes them happy.  With a success rate much higher than you have had at curing ADHD.  So apparently I'm winning at benefiting humanity through this conversation. :)
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I don't even know who told you that ADD is a disease?
It fits with the clinical definiton and at least one colloquial definition.  It is generally called a disease by doctors and it is classified by the DSMIV.   Sorry your permission is not necessary. :)
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I'm very certain
A good sign that you are stupid.
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80% of the people have it DUE TO TV.
Again the evidence says: "No".  If what you assume is correct the expectation you would see a correlation between TVs per capita and ADHD diagnosis.  No such correlation exists.  So the correct thing to do is to treat your hypothesis as if it is stupid. :)
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And i'm certain
Good sign that you're stupid.
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that most will get a pill prescription from having it = more confusion!
The first line treatment for ADHD is psychosocial counselling   When that fails or in extreme cases pharmacological measures are attempted.  There are two major classes of drugs and the most common one is stimulants.  Which helps in ~70% of cases.
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I don't feel the need to APOLOZIGE to anyone when i'm telling them how they get ADD in the first place, in FACT, I should be thanked!
So here is where you should just stand up and say: "Ok I give, I'm just trolling" because it's exceptionally hard to believe a person would be as thick as you are being.  In the off chance you're serious it's worth mentioning that the reason you should apologize is because you are making light of people who suffer from a real disease.
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But I see where ADD comes from, as bright as a sunny day!
Another good reason to think you're stupid.
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The problem is that I was born genetically to see these things.
And another... :)
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I never wished to be this way when I was born!
Trust me, very few wish you to be the way you are. :) :)
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ADD is MADE!
The evidence says "no".
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The cure is there but how can you stop smoking when they sell cigarettes all over the place?
I have no trouble not watching commercial tv or listening to commercial radio.  If you're still on that this is caused by TV/radio commercials.  Perhaps you're just not very smart?
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Now you are trying to tell me that you know are an expert about the mind or psychology?
No, just in hypothesis testing and math.  Two things it's very difficult to do science without.
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Well there you go, you are an azz kisser.
Either you didn't understand what I wrote or you don't understand what that idiom means.  Let me know which one it is. :)
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Your mentality is not nikola, tesla
Yes.  In particular I don't believe a number of the incredibly stupid things he believed (or appeared to believe). :) :)
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you can't wait to tell your “buddies” how stupid I am?
Think for once in your virtually useless life.   You can't stay on one topic, you have no idea how to phrase and support an argument, you use terribly ambiguous phrasing and you absolutely refuse to change how you say things or do the tiniest amount of work to phrase things better.  What's left but to make fun of you?
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there are greater mind then yours.
Absolutely however you're simply not one of those greater minds. :) :) :)
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You think ME joel321 is Seamonkey?
I didn't say that but now that you bring it up it's not entirely unplausible. :)
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I'm joel321 a latino living in the USA.
... with ridiculous English affectations.
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NOT COUGHING TOWARDS THE OTHER PERSON 80% WILL NOT GET INFECTED!
Yawn change of subject #25.  Now all of a sudden we are talking ONLY AND EVER about coughing directly on someone? LOL
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ok, how would I know that I don't speak math language
Your change of subject aside (#26) what I was saying is entirely different.  You are responsible to research your position to the point that you can participate in a discussion.  So far you are not only not there but you also actively resist using terms properly.
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Tell me what is a science language?
Change of subject #27.
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hmmm...do you understand 100% what the contracts mean?
Logical fallacy.  I've already beaten that argument if you understood what I wrote.
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I want to believe that I'm stupid!
Not enough to actually realize that you are.
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I get tired of being called INTELLIGENT when I don't even fell INTELLIGENT.
Then you should pay attention to the people who are calling you stupid as they apparently know you better than the people who think you are smart. :)
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So my ONLY conclusion is that the people that call me intelligent are more stupid than I am. I don't feel intelligent at all I just see them as lower than average. And then I ask myself why am I being called INTELLIGENT or STUPID! Then I see how socialism works! Where their social CIRCLE the ALPHA male tells them that they are intelligent!

Blah blah blah, just because a stupid person tells me that i'm intelligent ONLY means that his stupidity is showing. Since to understand that you also have to understand how ALPHA males work.

Change of subject #28. :)
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I am 80% sure that I can beat you regarding brain intelligence!
Any intellectual contest?  Sure, I'll pick some so we can all watch you make excuses as to why you won't do it. :)
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I'm very confident regarding this!
Another reason why you're probably stupid.
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How do you know i'm not using every day language?
The same way people who write dictionaries know usage frequency.  By statistical analysis.
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Maybe because everyday language you are only judging from your LITTLE BUBBLE?
Nope.  Think again Hammurabi. 
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Here we go again. REPRODUCING is not the same as BORN.
Sure but every time someone is born someone has reproduced.  Which means your term "born" is ambiguous and you should probably pick another one. :)
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REPLICATE is not the same as BORN!
Exactly viruses replicated but few would say they are "born".  You make a good argument that "born" is ambiguous and you should pick another term. :)
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BORN! Comes first since reproducing is the mere fact of having ! The urge to REPLICATE!
LOL So wait before you said being born meant coming out of my mothers vagina.  Now you say I was born before then.  That I was born before I was born.  Again this is you making an excellent argument that your use of "born" is ambiguous and you should choose another term.
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A female and a male REPRODUCE!
which means their child was born.  Hence, again a great argument that "born" should be swapped for another word.
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DO you understand what is a root?
The root of what?
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Reproduce! Or Replicate! Is not the root!!!!! get it?
How about you read a book or a web page about virology and look up some of those words.  Then perhaps you will know what you mean. :)
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Ok, I learned a lot from you this day.
It was statistically inevitable that at some point in your life you would learn something from someone else.  Just not likely on an individual case. :)
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and I thought I was talking to an “expert”.
I've already implied that I'm not an expert in Troll English Affectations.
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That explains why we have cure the flu virus!
Are you trying to say that we don't have a method of prevention or treatment which works on all variations on the influenza genome?
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The way I see it is that i'm looking at things from 23 different angles
In which case you shouldn't blame me for the 23 changes in subject and therefore there is no reason to claim that I have ADHD.
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you are only looking at it from ONE angle.
Clearly if I'm responding to all 28 of your changes to the subject then I'm looking at as many aspects as you are.  However I just happen to know that most of what you're talking about is bullshit.
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Who cares what colloquial or clinical definition
You do.  You said it wasn't a disease however it fits both the colloquial and clinical definitions. :)
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I only care what CAUSS IT!!!!
No you only appear to care about validating your exceptionally stupid ideas about what causes it.  There's a big difference there. :) :) :) :)
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Tell me what causes ADD and tell me why there is a pill for it? TODAY!
ADHD is a large collection of symptoms which may not even have a common cause.  However again twin studies have shown something like 70% correspondence.  As I said earlier psychosocial therapy is the first line in most north american countries.  Stimulants are one of the most common pharmacological treatments.   The reason why?  It improves outcomes in something like 70% of cases.
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Well I cannot never proof my point because I cant never get rid of commercials.
You probably don't know enough math to understand how that means you're more wrong than right...
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But i'm 100% that is the cause!
So you have never cured anyone but you are still 100% convinced.  Another reason you're stupid.
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you always give half ass answers. This does not mean anything since advertising is true 100% to all people. What you imply is merely that you are somewhat educated to avoid ads. But the fact is that ads are all over the place – movies, magazines, tools, tv, cars, shoes, computers, etc etc etc.
I rarely watch movies with commercials and I don't read magazines and I use an ad blocker on my computer.  So while I do see commercials from time to time my exposure is so much lower than the vast majority of society that you have proved yourself wrong.  The only way for me to have ADHD as a result of exposure to commercials their effect would have to be immensely strong.  Which would mean everyone would have ADHD - however they don't.

You killed your own argument because you like your own ideas too much. :)
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Who's “we”?
Medical opinion as seen through the lens of my reading of medical journals.
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lol this is so bland and sorry pathetic explanation of = I don't know!
Nope.  What I'm saying is that many twin studies not only show a strong correlation between identical twins and autism diagnosis but there is also a strong proportionality between fraternal twins.  Both of those make a good case for autism to have a strong genetic component. 
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In all honesty, you get confused easy. You drift from the MAIN POINT so far that you seem like you have the mentality of a girl.

You just have no mental power to even think outside your EGO.

Taking about what I mean by “born”.

ADD is a decease!

Coughing to a persons face while having the flu helps better than coughing to the ground!

If I get the flu virus I will never get the flu virus in my whole life!

I'm not an expert in medicine yet I speak like I am!

I get distracted easy because of ADD and forget easy what the main point is!

Maybe you need a reality check or maybe you need to change your mentality and help others with your stubbornness!
I'm not sure if these are all changes of subject or you just not reading what I wrote. You figure out what you are actually saying and let me know. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 30, 2015, 02:37:09 AM
It is truly sad that
..you can't own up to what you said?  Yes.

Again either you agree that it's ok to make light of ADHD sufferers or it's not.  If it is, is it because you think they aren't suffering or because you think it's ok to make fun of people who are suffering in general.

Again let me know when you are willing to man up....or hey just keep on squirming and deflecting.  That's not un-funny. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 30, 2015, 05:30:14 AM
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I guess Joel will never admit he was wrong about the show Moonshiners.

He claimed it was 100% real, I proved that it is a docudrama and not real.  It is indeed off-topic but He brought it up in one of his nonsensical rants.  Maybe one day he will be right about something?

lol oh bill bill bill. 100% facts just because you read wikipedia a public encyclopedia where anyone can write the definitions. Lol

Is this how you do science?

That is 100% inaccurate to imply that you are 100% by referencing to wikipedia...that funny to be honest. Lol I really laughed to your 100% facts...lol

Would it not be better to take 2 weeks vacation from your job, or if retired, go the town they are shooting the TV “DOCUDRAMA” and see for yourself rather than using wikipedia as a 100% FACTS! Lol

How blind can you be? That show is the same as “streetoutlaws” TV show. Go watch “streetoutlaws” and tell me if it's also a “docudrama”?

The main point is that a lot of people can't see things from different angles and that's how a lot of them are blinded by the TRUTH! Like the ULTIMATE TRUTH is that:

1- they are breaking the laws!
2- there is a LAW that the TV producers get away with a lot of things.
3- I'm pretty sure there is a 4rth law and more they are breaking but I'm not a lawyer.

Hollywood/TV media needs more REGULATING cause they are sending the wrong message! "16 and pregnant", "jackass" TV shows to add more to the list!

Is '16 and pregnant' or 'jackass' not real people in real life, or just actors? = "docudrama". Is 'docudrama' even a real word? I want to speak to the person whom came up with that word lol...easy! Tell me who came up with that word?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 30, 2015, 07:13:38 AM
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You're changing the subject again (#24).  What I was saying is that given that most of my family are not native English speakers and many of the people in my workplace aren't native speakers and that I've traveled a fair bit and that I've studied linguistics.  Your particular problems with English seem to be affectations

Well you are 'affectationing' regarding understanding viruses. I know I struggle to transfer my thoughts to paper. I don't speak the way I write because most of the speaking my thoughts do.

I understand there is a communication barrier but i'm not here trying to take advantage of people. I have never taken advantage off people since I was born!

I just want to help because that is life purpose!

Main point it is all a language barrier coming from me more than anything else.

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Wrong. You clearly said that I was changing the subject and because of that you deluded yourself into thinking I have ADD (which I'm going to use the more modern name ADHD from now on). 

To be honest I have a hard time focusing on one thing myself. After thinking deeply, the ROOTS are just distractions plain and simple.

My cure is to not ever read a commercial ever again! That's my cure! No pills no therapy at all.

So then how do I get rid of commercials? There are ways!

Then how do I tell my relatives what causes ADD! Not very easy!

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I'm sure humanity will benefit.  For example you are very amusing to talk to.  That benefits humanity - it makes them happy.  With a success rate much higher than you have had at curing ADHD.  So apparently I'm winning at benefiting humanity through this conversation.

To be honest, you have this mental power that is stubborn! I'm kinda being more entertained by you and forgetting about the path of truth! I'm responding to you more FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES rather than trying to seek the truth! Seriously.

I already know how to avoid the flu virus strain!

I already know how STD's can be avoided!

I already 100% sure that toilet seats transfer viruses just the same as a TV remote control from IGNORANT PEOPLE!

I 100% sure know that KNOWLEDGE is the CURE!

NO! pill can cure viruses, since we are a virus ourselves if you think about it!

Blah blah blah!

I know we are both getting amused, but the ULTIMATE GOAL is not just AMUZEMENT! We to need to laugh here and there to balance our needs but at the end of the day we need “EVOLUTION” and KNOWLEDGE.

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Again the evidence says: "No".  If what you assume is correct the expectation you would see a correlation between TVs per capita and ADHD diagnosis.  No such correlation exists.  So the correct thing to do is to treat your hypothesis as if it is stupid.

Can I take a look at your statistics? 0.0

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The first line treatment for ADHD is psychosocial counselling   When that fails or in extreme cases pharmacological measures are attempted.  There are two major classes of drugs and the most common one is stimulants.  Which helps in ~70% of cases.

Well i'm here telling you 100% sure that ADD is caused by DISTRACTIONS! = TV commercials, followed by lack of communicating skills, bullying and the ladder goes on. The main culprit right now is TV the second most is bullying! Which both are more psychological than genetic!

A pill CANNOT FIX the psychological aspects of things, only by using reverse psychology can = no PILLS!

Hear me think, do you fix a pill with a pill? Or do you use your brain to make one?

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So here is where you should just stand up and say: "Ok I give, I'm just trolling" because it's exceptionally hard to believe a person would be as thick as you are being.  In the off chance you're serious it's worth mentioning that the reason you should apologize is because you are making light of people who suffer from a real disease.

Well I'm suffering of BEING ABLE TO SEE TRUTH and these people are hard to convince! I don't want money because LEARNING is what gives me pleasures!

As a matter of fact, I can go and move on to another project and forget about ADD!

I'm not here in this world to just bully people, i'm here to learn and enjoy it! That's me, I enjoy learning things but then I have more morals than a psychopath does! So when I STUMBLE on a solution, I don't want ANYTHING BUT ONLY TO SHOW THEM THE TRUTH!

As a matter of fact, I don't care if ADD gets cured! I know it won't because of the TV ads. Hey if yuou have insurance to cover for the everyday pills and can stand for the pill symptoms, go ahead if it gets you cures.

I believe in medicines, I just don't believe in corruption.

I'm very confident that ADD can be cured with out pills! 100! it's all behavioral learning!

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Another good reason to think you're stupid.

If I'm so stupid, tell me what drugs cure ADD?

Lets step a little doing the “evolutionary” ladder and explein to me how ADD is created, replicated, reproduced, came to be?

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Trust me, very few wish you to be the way you are.

Well I wished I was like you? How can I be like you? Lol can I ripp of your face and implant it in mine?

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I have no trouble not watching commercial tv or listening to commercial radio.  If you're still on that this is caused by TV/radio commercials.  Perhaps you're just not very smart?

Nice! Scientific research! Lol r you serious, you believe because you have been posting here for sooooo long you are not a troll that just SNEAKED IN! Lol

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Either you didn't understand what I wrote or you don't understand what that idiom means.  Let me know which one it is.

I keep on hearing from you “let me show “my buddies” your stupid answers” = ass kisser...i already know your a stupid ass and have not said anything to my buddies to support that because I already know that..lol

stand up for yourself ! Lol or do you need to dress as a clown to entertain your buddies? Bozo the clown! Lol I don't even know what your point is!

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Think for once in your virtually useless life.   You can't stay on one topic, you have no idea how to phrase and support an argument, you use terribly ambiguous phrasing and you absolutely refuse to change how you say things or do the tiniest amount of work to phrase things better. What's left but to make fun of you?

You can tell your buddies all you want! But I already know how prostitution works! You are prostituting your ideas to get a sense of INTELLINECE! That is not how you get intelligent! When you say something like that mostly means that you have a sense to be acceptance in the SOCIAL circle of SOCIALISM! I mean any therapist should be able to know this!

You are not hard to figure out broh!

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Absolutely however you're simply not one of those greater minds.

My mind can kick your minds butt any day. Lol lets show FACTS!

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I didn't say that but now that you bring it up it's not entirely unplausible.

Yes you did! Here are the facts CHINGA TU PINCHE PUTA MADRE CARA DE RATA CHUPAS LONGANISA! I'm hispanic broh! Lol do you need more facts pendejito?

It is plausible but I'm giving you 100% facts! so your confused brain can understand lol is not like it is hard to prove i'm not him! YAWN!

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Yawn change of subject #25.  Now all of a sudden we are talking ONLY AND EVER about coughing directly on someone? LOL

Are you even seeing this as a off topic!
How stupid can you be when the flu virus makes the human body COUGH to spread it's sperm! Or take their kids to Disney land!? Lol

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Your change of subject aside (#26) what I was saying is entirely different.  You are responsible to research your position to the point that you can participate in a discussion.  So far you are not only not there but you also actively resist using terms properly.

You are now just went out of topic yet again.

Why can't you focus on the main POINT?

You are chopping my sentences left and right like killing a chicken for dinner!

So I am diagnosing you with ADD! Go take some pills guy lol

I'm just having fun here responding to you. There is no SCIENTIFIC research going on at all! Lol

You are expressing the symptoms of an ADD person. = unable to focus on the ULTIMATE GOAL.

For whatever reason, maybe your buddies are laughing at you and not with you, you seem to just BELIEVE that if your 'buddies' are laughing, you are correct! Well sir that is just being a bully!

You have ZERO! Understanding of how life works, I just think you need someone to wake you up from your dream. Lol

If you really want to compare brain sizes:

-tell me how dishwashers work? (which should be able to tell you how to fix them)

-tell me how HVAC systems work? (“)

-tell me how computers work? (“)

-tell me how gas engines work? (“)

-tell me how relationships work? (“)

-tell me how alcohol in a hu8man body works? (“)

-tell me how to cure ADD? (“)

-tell me how the flu virus works? (“)

-tell me how viruses spread around? (“)

yar yara....the next time I read your responses I expect for you to explain my questions more than 50% with OUT any half assed answers.  8)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 30, 2015, 04:48:17 PM
Well you are 'affectationing' regarding understanding viruses.
a) No. b) Again if there's a real communication barrier.  How do you know what an "affectation" is?  If you don't - why are you using it (in an entirely unused inflection).  If you looked it up why didn't look up "strand" or "born" or the other words that you use incorrectly?
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I know I struggle to transfer my thoughts to paper.
but you use words like "affectation"? or you think it's a good idea to use words like "affectation"?
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Main point it is all a language barrier coming from me more than anything else.
I have no doubt it's coming from you it just looks like an affectation. :)
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To be honest I have a hard time focusing on one thing myself.
and a) You think yourself qualified to diagnose ADHD and b) blame 23 changes of topic on me.
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After thinking deeply, the ROOTS are just distractions plain and simple.
Well good that saves us days of trying to get you pick a better word.
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My cure is to not ever read a commercial ever again! That's my cure! No pills no therapy at all.
Which makes no sense not because it's hard but because you would expect what you call a dose/response relationship.  That is you would expect some level of tolerance.  As someone who receives such a low dose of commercials that I didn't even know that the superbowl was this weekend until someone asked me.  If I had ADD because of commercials then I would certainly be cured by now.     
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Then how do I tell my relatives what causes ADD! Not very easy!
Actually what you first need to do is cure a number of people.
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To be honest, you have this mental power that is stubborn!
In case nobody told you this.  If people don't believe you it isn't necessarily because they are stubborn.  It's often because you think your opinion is better than theirs and you expect them to believe you MAINLY BECAUSE YOU SAID IT!. ::)
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I'm kinda being more entertained by you and forgetting about the path of truth! I'm responding to you more FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES rather than trying to seek the truth! Seriously.
Last post you said you were only speaking to help others.   Which one are you lying about? :) :)
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I already 100% sure
Another reason you're an idiot.
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I 100% sure know that KNOWLEDGE is the CURE!
Someone who is 100% sure is someone who can never be convinced that they are wrong.  However that is only possible through ego and arrogance.  Funny how you think other people have problems with that but not yourself :) :) :)
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NO! pill can cure viruses
If you mean "No pill can cure viruses" and if by "cure" you mean stop the spread to the point that a person is asymptomatic.  Then you're already wrong.  We already have antiviral drugs that do this.  However you'll probably make up some other definition of "cure" that makes no sense and is inconsistent with even your own ideas but like I said.  I find you funny.  So please keep performing for me.
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since we are a virus ourselves if you think about it!
Too many logical fallacies to list in that clause.
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but at the end of the day we need “EVOLUTION” and KNOWLEDGE.
I don't.  Evidence suggests that you have nothing useful to say.  Hence the only thing I need from you is a good story to tell people.  That makes them happy.  Which is all you are good for right now. :)
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Can I take a look at your statistics? 0.0
Google "tvs per capita" and "adhd diagnosis by year"
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Well i'm here telling you 100% sure
I'm not sure if your friends have told you this but your "100% sure" means nothing to anybody with a brain.  Nobody rational cares about your confidence especially if you give it out so freely.
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that ADD is caused by DISTRACTIONS! = TV commercials, followed by lack of communicating skills, bullying and the ladder goes on. The main culprit right now is TV the second most is bullying!
Ok, seriously just admit you're trolling.  Just say "I joel am a troll" because this makes even less sense.  Especially since you were 100% sure - just a few posts ago that ADHD is caused by TV commercials (and radio commercials).
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A pill CANNOT FIX the psychological aspects of things
Yawn.  It depends on what you mean by psychological.  An SSRI can preserve a more neurotypical level of external serotonin in people who normally would have a lower level.  A lower than normal level could MANIFEST as behaviors that someone like you would call "psychological".  Hence you are wrong. :) :) :) :)
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Well I'm suffering of BEING ABLE TO SEE TRUTH and these people are hard to convince!
LOL - Sorry you can't be serious. :)
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I don't want money because LEARNING is what gives me pleasures!
I think you mean validating your own ego driven ideas is what makes you happy.
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As a matter of fact, I can go and move on to another project and forget about ADD!
Please don't.  This is so entertaining.
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I'm not here in this world to just bully people
Doesn't that mean you're causing ADHD?  Because you said you think it's caused by bullying.  Right?
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when I STUMBLE on a solution, I don't want ANYTHING BUT ONLY TO SHOW THEM THE TRUTH!
But have no desire to actually VALIDATE your solution.  That's a big part of what science is and knowing how to.  Read Karl Popper sometime.
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I know it won't because of the TV ads.
Even though I have almost zero exposure to TV advertisements.  I'm somehow not cured from an illness you imagine me to have. :) :) :) :)
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I'm very confident that ADD can be cured with out pills!
I already told you that first line for ADHD is psychosocial counseling.  Pharmacological treatments are only recommended in extreme cases or cases where counseling is not helping.
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If I'm so stupid, tell me what drugs cure ADD?
You're stupid because you're confident. :)  It's easy to be confident in things you think are correct.  It takes REAL brainpower to be not confident about those things.  Which is why I doubt you will ever be able to do what I can do.
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Well I wished I was like you?
You're just an arrogant ass and I'm sure few people wish that people they know are that. :) :) :)
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Nice! Scientific research!
It's true.  I have not had commercial television in my home for over a decade.  I don't listen to the radio but both growing up and in my home I listen to news radio which has no commercials.  I keep an ad blocker on my laptop.  I frequently don't understand memes that are based on commercials.  My commercial exposure must be in the lower 1%.
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I keep on hearing from you
Exaggeration.  It's had been said exactly once when you made your comment.
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“let me show “my buddies” your stupid answers” = ass kisser
An "ass kisser" in English is someone who attempts to curry favor.  I'm just making people happy.
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do you need to dress as a clown to entertain your buddies?
You're the one who dressed yourself as a clown.  I'm just spreading the happiness around. :)
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I already know how prostitution works! You are prostituting your ideas to get a sense of INTELLINECE! That is not how you get intelligent! When you say something like that mostly means that you have a sense to be acceptance in the SOCIAL circle of SOCIALISM! I mean any therapist should be able to know this!
*clap* *clap* *clap* That was awesome.  Can you say more things like that.  It's got the right combination of crazy and ranting.
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My mind can kick your minds butt any day. Lol lets show FACTS!
Ok you keep making these challenges.  Please just say you'll accept any intellectual challenge from me and we can get started.
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Yes you did!
Nope.  Sorry you're not in a position to argue English syntax. :)
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It is plausible but I'm giving you 100% facts!
Another good reason to think you're stupid. :)
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Are you even seeing this as a off topic!
Because coughing directly on someone isn't the only vector of infection and probably isn't the most likely one. :)
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You are now just went out of topic yet again.
Nope.  This was addressing your refusing to use words in an unambiguous way.  You are responsible to bring your level of knowledge to the point that you can discuss things.  It's not everyone else's job to guess what a virologist would say when you say "born". :) :) :)
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Why can't you focus on the main POINT?
I'm focusing on whatever you post - trying to address your issues.  That's what a polite person would do.  Perhaps you should change what you post?
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You are chopping my sentences left and
Only when it's funny. :)
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So I am diagnosing you with ADD!
The point is that a) You are not qualified. b) Your criteria makes no sense at all and c) Your diagnosis makes your argument that advertisements cause ADHD weaker. :) :) :) :)
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You are expressing the symptoms of an ADD person. = unable to focus on the ULTIMATE GOAL.
Nope.  I'm just responding to what you post.  So I can not be expressing anything but a reflection of yourself. :)
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For whatever reason, maybe your buddies are laughing at you and not with you
I'm pretty certain they're laughing at you and others like you.  Some actually say words like "Do you have any new stories of crazy people on the internet.". 
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you seem to just BELIEVE that if your 'buddies' are laughing, you are correct!
Nope.  I think I'm correct because of the research I have read.  My buddies are laughing because you are funny.
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Well sir that is just being a bully!
"well sir" - I believe I've mentioned you have too many odd affectations right? and no it's not being a bully.  A bully is someone who tries to get someone to do something.  Telling my friends funny stories about you (and Cap-Mo-ron and SeaMonkey and profitis...etc) doesn't force you to do anything...and if it's not bullying you...then who is it bullying?
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If you really want to compare brain sizes:
I do but you said you could beat me at ANY intellectual exercise.  So why don't I get to pick and you have to beat me?  That would really show me you're smarter.  Right?
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I expect for you to explain my questions
Get used to disappointment...and questions aren't "explained" they are "answered".  Funny mistake to make. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 30, 2015, 05:15:09 PM
Does this paid dooshbag shill think anyone actually reads this porridge...other than his arse kisser, that is ?

What a joke.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 30, 2015, 09:44:45 PM
Quote from: Sark-Eizen
...
Again either you agree that it's ok to make light of ADHD sufferers or it's not.  If it is, is it because you think they aren't suffering or because you think it's ok to make fun of people who are suffering in general.

Again let me know when you are willing to man up....or hey just keep on squirming and deflecting.  That's not un-funny. :)

It would be very helpful to your emotional state to
actually perform research on the contrived 'diseases'
ADD and ADHD.  Any 'suffering' which might take place
is brought on by the Medical Establishment and the
Institutions of Alleged Learning where a regime of
'forced medication' is in place.

Most legitimate Medical Authorities (those not in the
pockets of Big Pharma) agree that the afore-mentioned
'conditions' are figments of the imaginations of those
obsessed with Love of Money.  A bamboozle.  A facet of
the overall AGENDA to bring about the New Order of Things.

Really an excellent example of how the people are being
jerked around by The Establishment.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 30, 2015, 11:26:21 PM
It would be very helpful to your emotional state to actually perform research on the contrived 'diseases'
ADD and ADHD.
Well it looks like you chose to squirm some more.  It's a few weeks early to be giving me a valentines gift but thanks anyway. <3 <3 <3 :) You tried to deflect a simple question into one of your trips to moron-town.
 
It's very, very simple: Do you believe that people who are diagnosed with ADHD - for the most part - are suffering or are not suffering and for the sake of argument lets say that we are talking about suffering in the period prior to diagnosis?   Seriously.  You seemed pretty eager to back Joel before - why so shy now?

...and if you think they aren't suffering in any significant way - prior to diagnosis - please just say so.  If you do believe they are suffering then please come clean and state that you think it's ok to have a tongue-in-cheek attitude about their disease and if not well that would mean you're wrong about something and I'm pretty sure you won't go there. :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 31, 2015, 02:44:41 AM
The 'diagnosis' is bogus.  Any 'suffering' felt on the
part of the 'patient' as a consequence of ADD or ADHD
would actually be the result of something like reading your
insufferable postings on the topic. :o ::) 8)

You may try again but it is doubtful you'll score any higher. ;) :P

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 31, 2015, 02:56:41 AM
The 'diagnosis' is bogus.
So nobody has ever come into a doctors office with a real medical problem that has no other medical label and come out with a diagnosis of ADHD?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 31, 2015, 05:56:39 AM
As you must be well aware by now, in the Land of
Looney Tunes (U.S. Medical Establishment) anything
is possible.  The impossible has been made possible. :o :-[

But, only for those who believe the deceptions and the
propaganda. ::) ???

Thankfully, Truth is yet alive and those who seek it are
able to find it. 8) :) ;)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 31, 2015, 06:12:08 AM
As you must be well aware by now, in the Land of
Looney Tunes (U.S. Medical Establishment) anything
is possible.  The impossible has been made possible. :o :-[

But, only for those who believe the deceptions and the
propaganda. ::) ???

Thankfully, Truth is yet alive and those who seek it are
able to find it. 8) :) ;)

Where is your supporting evidence for this?  The impossible has been made possible?  Where?  When?  By whom?

You are now sounding more like Crap-Z-ro.  And we all know what folks think of him.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 31, 2015, 06:29:22 AM
Not surprising that the butt plug pirate arse kisser to the shills is oblivious to the fact that people can plainly see his desperate obsession with getting even with me for exposing him as the brainless twit that he is.

Clearly he's still extremely browned off...he just its because the brown ring around his neck is because he fails to perform an enema prior to inserting his jug head up every arse he sees, and somehow thinks I'm to blame.
 
Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 31, 2015, 06:37:58 AM
  (http://overunity.com/Themes/default/images/useron.gif) (http://overunity.com/pm/cap-z-ro.9195/sa/send/) Cap-Z-ro (http://overunity.com/profile/cap-z-ro.9195/)       (http://overunity.com/Themes/default/images/post/xx.gif)   Re: Vaccinations;  recent developments (http://overunity.com/15147/vaccinations-recent-developments/msg435946/#msg435946)  « Reply #866 on: Today at 11:29:22 PM »  Quote (http://overunity.com/15147/vaccinations-recent-developments/855/post/quote/435946/last_msg/435946/)
   You are ignoring this user.


Ahhh...so very nice.

Bill

PS I am just glad that I have not been hacked.
       
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 31, 2015, 06:45:45 AM
I played drums in a touring rock and roll band for 3 years. 
Bill

Thats explains everything...no wonder he's so thick, he probably blew his mind out with booze and blow.

Kids, booze and drugs are a lethal combination.

The butt pirate is is the poster boy for the "This is your brain of booze and drugs" campaign.

Unfortunately for the rest of us, we are all left to endure his moronic mental diarrhea.

Regards...



Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 31, 2015, 06:57:29 AM
Quote from the butt plug pirate:

" I played drums in a touring rock and roll band for 3 years. "



Well now, that explains everything...no wonder he's so thick, he probably blew his mind out with booze and blow.

Kids, booze and drugs are a lethal combination.

The burnt out butt pirate is the poster boy for the "This is your brain of booze and drugs" campaign.

Unfortunately for the rest of us, we are all left to endure his moronic mental diarrhea.

Regards...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on January 31, 2015, 08:08:10 AM
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How do you know what an "affectation" is?  If you don't - why are you using it (in an entirely unused inflection).  If you looked it up why didn't look up "strand" or "born" or the other words that you use incorrectly?

Because it is just a BARRIER of just understanding the word definitions. Now that I understand what you mean by 'affectioning' does not change my main points that I was trying to say before I didn't know what you mean by that...nor 'strain'.

The facts still remain that the flu shot only helps to prevent the predominant flu strain and that is not a 100% sure guarantee that it will help you 100% sure you will not get the flu if you get a flu shot because the flu virus may mutate way faster than the strain "CURE" for that shot 'cause the virus will always MUTATE!

Regardless the definitions of words, 100% sure know, and all flu shot makers, that it is WAYYY better to not get sick in the fist place than to get vaccinated from all viruses in the world! Is there even medicine to protect from all viruses in the world!? You want to find that GOD shot where just by taking one, you will be immune from all viruses in the world?

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but you use words like "affectation"? or you think it's a good idea to use words like "affectation"?

Well that is the word you choose to try to DEFINE my intentions. I just learned that word by “debating” with you only. Still, does not change the way I think because the past has greater knowledge than just mere words.

And you still can't accept the fact that there is a lot of miscommunication in this world, the English language is not perfect! No language is. That's why we need to look from different angels to understand the ULTIMATE GOAL, and not just get stuck in other things.

Let me weigh your BS on a scale!
 
stitches are better than avoidance of the cut?

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I have no doubt it's coming from you it just looks like an affectation

Please allow your ego of trying to teach me the English language to go away because it does not matter.

As a matter of fact, affectation only lives in your world of trying to define how viruses work since you used it to define how viruses work. When you told me AFFECTATION, is when I understood that word ONLY! I'm sure a lawyer or a judge has never used that word in their everyday life!

Oops! I'm teaching you about simple stuff and oops! Why have you deviated so far from the main point about vaccinations to being an expert regarding VOCABULARY?

Stay on point please. Lol

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a) You think yourself qualified to diagnose ADHD and b) blame 23 changes of topic on me.

Yes I'm qualified to diagnose ADHD because I “suffer” from it too. And I understand that it is not due to GENETIC but more from LEARNED BEHAVIOR. And 100000% sure that there is no pill to cure it since if there was, it should have been LOOOONG gone like chicken pox!

It is pretty simple! You don't need to think that hard to figure it out in fact COMMERCIALS also cause  OCD = obsessive compulsive disorder!

I kind of find it weird that these experts CANNOT see this obvious things!

In fact! I don't know why shaking hands has not being made illegal. Where  I work, I'm DISGUSTED how many people use the bathroom and DONNOT wash their hands.

You need to BREAK FREE FROM IGNORANCE! You will live longer and avoid many illnesses NO PILLS!

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Well good that saves us days of trying to get you pick a better word.

Words don't just come to existence by themselves! Words are like playing domino! We just need to pick the right ones to win the game! That is all. Language is just communicating. They don't change reality.

Take for example “the milky way” (our galaxy) how the fuck is it milky in any way? Lol or even a “WAY”? What? Your unconcious mind just learns to know what it means with out even using the right word to define it!!!

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Which makes no sense not because it's hard but because you would expect what you call a dose/response relationship.  That is you would expect some level of tolerance.  As someone who receives such a low dose of commercials that I didn't even know that the superbowl was this weekend until someone asked me.  If I had ADD because of commercials then I would certainly be cured by now.

Yeah, well you see PILLS don't work that WAY...lol. ADD starts as  as KID watching sponge bob square pants! Lol

Your ADD will never go away that simple nor by taking pills IF IT CANNOT BE CURED FROM THE ROOTS!

This means that your will have ADD all of your life till you go to heaven! It is way better to live with and accept where it comes from than to live your life takings pills! Since tell me of a MAGIC PILL that cures it?

The same thing is with OCD = obsessive compulsive disorder! That is also a learned behavior and i'm not even a expert regarding this!

Obsession only comes when people don't understand KNOWLEDGE! REPETITIVE WRONG repetitions! Being obsesive is just trying to find something where it's just FALSE HOPES of NOT BEING ABLE TO FIND THE CURE! The one becomes desperate! OBSESSIVE!

Why am I even explaining this to you! You are so smart you should know this already!

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Actually what you first need to do is cure a number of people.

Well I wish but I don't have the time nor the years. I'm just trying to ENLIGHTEN those that want to be enlighten! That is all. To be honest, at this point, I believe that WE ALL HAVE ADD. Just like everything else, there are VARIABLES (genetic and behavioral) where some are more aching to suffer more than others, but that is just in the mind more than anything!

From looking at different angles, I see many UPON many studies that other people do always points to BEHAVIRAL “disease”.

I have even seen where schizophrenic people are more crazy in one continent than in another! This relates to how socialism works. = the way of thinking = what influenced you in thinking that way in the first place? Not hard to see just hard to teach!

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In case nobody told you this.  If people don't believe you it isn't necessarily because they are stubborn.  It's often because you think your opinion is better than theirs and you expect them to believe you MAINLY BECAUSE YOU SAID IT!

NO! we only learn in this world = We only teach what we learn! IGNORANCA and GREED makes you believe that we can create wolds. There is A LOT of things that your mind is VIRGIN to that you don't even know!

The same as drug dealers are trying to sell drugs and kill people because of GREEN, the same thing happens in medicine and even in SCIENCE!

We have a responsibility to stop these innocent killings!

A perfect example is the nazis. While hitler was crazy, he made many inventions! But many lives payed due to HIS CORRUPTION! But eventually MORALITY WON THAT BATTLE! And I know 100% THAT CORRUPTION CANNOT BE CURED WITH A PILL! It is inevitable!

You just not that informed about the world....tell me that there is no billionaire right now trying to do some crazy stuff to the world? Blah blah blah...even if you knew, what will do you? Nothing!

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Last post you said you were only speaking to help others.   Which one are you lying about?

I'm pretty sure someone is being enlighten by what I type and I'm pretty sure i'm just responding to you based mostly on entertainment more than anything!

I'm using you as a way to spread my knowledge :P

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Someone who is 100% sure is someone who can never be convinced that they are wrong.  However that is only possible through ego and arrogance.  Funny how you think other people have problems with that but not yourself

I said “I 100% sure know that KNOWLEDGE is the CURE!” and this is your explanation!

Look how simple it is!

Cave man: god gave us fire!

Modern man: j p morgan gave us light!

That is j p morgan knowledge! Hold on, do you even make money by taking a pill? I would like to take a pill that gives me the KNOWLEDGE to make millions.
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Too many logical fallacies to list in that clause.

Have you asked the EARTHS' opinion?

Quote
I'm focusing on whatever you post - trying to address your issues.  That's what a polite person would do.  Perhaps you should change what you post?

LOL you keep on dissecting everything I say and take it out of context! = instead of QUOTING my whole paragraphs, you just chop them up in too little pieces and QUOTE me = taking things out of context = ADD/OCD = you need pills! Lol

It has been obvious that you are just NIT PICKING my answers for a while now!

I understand that you believing that i'm 26 times OFF TOPIC of what you speak off...because you are not looking at things from different ANGELS!

While you see me as “being off topic” I'm 100% in topic but looking at things from 26 different angels = mental science baby and a bigger brain! Lol

That is how wireless electronics work too! Or even satellites! As a matter of fact, even by looking at things from 3 different angles is what gives the phone towers your location! TRIANGULATIOON! = looking at things from different angles!

Hold on, even by the mere of Angles, tells you what is an angel or a circle! What!? Lol

Quote
Nope.  I think I'm correct because of the research I have read.  My buddies are laughing because you are funny.

So from where does this “research” comes from? Maybe from “evolution”? = mistakes gives knowledge = knowledge is the cure!

Or did you take a pill?

Quote
So why don't I get to pick and you have to beat me?

Ok what's your pick? lol
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on January 31, 2015, 08:09:51 AM
Sark,

This is especially for you! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1422579428&x-yt-cl=85114404&feature=player_embedded&v=Yy21bPYlkHg) 8) :)

The lines are good.  Surprisingly, you make your
appearance at about 3 minutes in the still shot. :o ::)

I feel your pain Sark!  You've truly got a massive
uphill struggle.  Best wishes to ye! ;) :)

Break a leg now! ;D ???
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 31, 2015, 08:19:43 AM
So Joel still thinks that Moonshiners is a real show.  My friends at work all had a good laugh on that one.

He does not like the WIKI ref....so..OK..he should google the show and see all 10,925 entries that say the show is fake.

Joel, you said I should go to where the show is filmed...but...I already told you that I live in KY.  Everyone here is familiar with that show and they know when it is being filmed.

Did you know that John Carpenter the director (Halloween, The Thing, etc.) lives here in my town?  So does the Gong Show creator song writer (Palisades Park) and author Chuck Barris.  If you watch the original movie Halloween, he references street names from here in Bowling Green, KY.  The guy that story is based upon is buried here in town also.

Senator Rand Paul also lives here in town as well.  I used to guard his neighborhood, but 3 years ago I got assigned to another post.

John Carpenter and Adriane Barbeau were actually at my wedding rehearsal dinner. Well, they were seated at a nearby table at the same restaurant.  That should have been a warning to me not to get married, haha.

Bill

PS  All Corvettes in the world since 1981 are built here also.
PPS  Here is a photo to me from Woz, the inventor of the Apple Computer. Here he is pictured with the Apple II.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 31, 2015, 09:24:44 AM
Sark,

This is especially for you! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1422579428&x-yt-cl=85114404&feature=player_embedded&v=Yy21bPYlkHg) 8) :)

The lines are good.  Surprisingly, you make your
appearance at about 3 minutes in the still shot. :o ::)

I feel your pain Sark!  You've truly got a massive
uphill struggle.  Best wishes to ye! ;) :)

Break a leg now! ;D ???

That's interesting but, the upper 1% pay 45% of the taxes in the US.  The top 10% pay 80% of the taxes.  49% of the people here pay 0 taxes!  So, everyone hates the rich...yes, whatever.  The more you tax the rich, the less they invest...in things like business, expansion, investments...etc.  Taxing the rich hurts the middle and lower class.  A rich guy wants to get richer...so he builds a mall....creates thousands of jobs not counting the building of the mall.  Increase his taxes on his profits...and he will not build that mall.  This is so simple yet not taught in schools any more.

Quote:
"I never got a job from a poor man."  Warren Buffet.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 31, 2015, 09:51:21 AM
Now, back on topic....

I heard a radio public service announcement today that said...(paraphrasing) Even though this year's flu shot will not likely prevent you from getting the flu...we strongly urge everyone to get the shot anyway.  There MAY be some benefit in lessening the symptoms of the other strains of flu virus."

OK, so, now this I do not agree with.  I know how hard it is to pick a specific strain of flu and predict that it will be the main one of the season and then create a vaccine for this.  But, when you miss it...which happens often, why would you spend taxpayer dollars playing radio ads suggesting the above?  There MAY be some benefit?

We all can agree that there is always some risk taking a flu shot. (.000001%-whatever)  So why should we take one when they admit that they missed it this year (totally understandable) and they come up with the idea that it "MAY" help lesson flu symptoms? 

I have to draw the line here.  I am not saying that it is more risky to get a shot that "MAY" help than getting the flu, but I have to say that this approach seems a bit disingenuous.  I call them like I see them.  Is anyone else hearing these radio ads?

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 31, 2015, 06:33:08 PM
Because it is just a BARRIER of just understanding the word definitions.
That doesn't explain how you know what the word means.  Either you looked it up or you didn't.  If you looked it up then why didn't you look up all those other words that you used poorly and if you didn't why would you keep using a word without knowing what it means?
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Now that I understand what you mean by 'affectioning'
Someone who knows what affectation means doesn't use 'affectioning' as an inflection. :)
Quote
The facts still remain that the flu shot only helps to prevent the predominant flu strain
Wrong. As discussed vaccines promote immunity against a serotype not a strain.  There are many strains to the serotype.  This means that vaccines do not only protect against a single strain.  Furthermore there is always the possibility of cross-species protection.  As, again discussed the example of vericella vaccine providing protection against HSV I and HSV II.   
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and that is not a 100% sure guarantee that it will help you 100% sure you will not get the flu
This is irrelevant to the discussion. :)
Quote
cause the virus will always MUTATE!
Not necessarily to the degree which will allow it to avoid being stopped by the vaccine.
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that it is WAYYY better to not get sick in the fist place than to get vaccinated from all viruses in the world!
Probably not.  Viruses as we now know can be precursors to all sorts of other diseases.  Even if you don't appear sick you can get sick much later on.
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Well that is the word you choose to try to DEFINE my intentions. I just learned that word by “debating” with you
Doesn't seem like you did - since you inflected it wrong.
Quote
And you still can't accept the fact that there is a lot of miscommunication in this world
I can accept it however it is still enormously off-topic.  The point I was making when you decided to lecture about this is that you have a responsibility to be able to talk competently about what you're arguing.  If you can't, go back and read a book...or at least don't dictate that people who find your "trollish affectation language" vague to the point of being useless.
Quote
stitches are better than avoidance of the cut?
Different thing.  Stitches do not prevent further cuts.  Vaccines prevent further infections :)
Quote
Please allow your ego of trying to teach me the English language
Again you are expected to be able to speak competently about the subject you are arguing.  So far you fail. :) :) :) :)
Quote
As a matter of fact, affectation only lives in your world of trying to define how viruses work since you used it to define how viruses work. When you told me AFFECTATION, is when I understood that word ONLY!
You don't seem to understand it now.
Quote
I'm sure a lawyer or a judge has never used that word in their everyday life!
You're probably wrong.
Quote
Why have you deviated so far
Dude.  You decided to go on about how poorly you understand the word "affectation".  Not me.  I've just been using it to describe your behavior.  You can change the subject as many times as you want but don't blame me for your lack of focus. :)
Quote
Yes I'm qualified to diagnose ADHD because I “suffer” from it too
So everyone who has a disease is qualified to diagnose it?  LOL.  Uh no. 
Quote
And 100000% sure
Another good reason to believe you're stupid.
Quote
since if there was, it should have been LOOOONG gone like chicken pox!
Chicken pox isn't treated with a pill.  It's vaccinated against - vaccines aren't the same as heredity.  Just because you can successfully treat a disease doesn't change a persons DNA.  Chicken pox is also an illness, the underlying virus varicella is still around and still causes problems.
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It is pretty simple! You don't need to think that hard
...and you are certainly the expert in not thinking hard :) :) :)
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to figure it out in fact COMMERCIALS also cause  OCD = obsessive compulsive disorder!
OCD isn't the same as AD/HD although they have a number of common symptoms.  OCD is an anxiety disorder - AD/HD isn't.
Quote
I kind of find it weird that these experts CANNOT see this obvious things!
Again simple epidemiology shows that OCD does not correlate with TVs per capita. :)
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I don't know why shaking hands has not being made illegal.
You only say things like that because you're trolling. :) :) :)
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You need to BREAK FREE FROM IGNORANCE!
Advice better followed by you.  Let me know when you stop saying "100%" :)
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Words don't just come to existence by themselves!
Change of topic again #29?. :) :) :) Made entirely by you and you will attempt to blame on me.   
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Yeah, well you see PILLS don't work that WAY.
What way?  Have a dose response relationship?  They sure do.  Sorry you're just plain wrong.  In any case if what you had said was true - that I have ADHD and it was caused by TV/Radio commercials.  Then I simply would not have it today because I have an exceptionally low exposure to commercials.   If I do have ADD then it can't be because of commercials because everyone else would have dose which is 100x stronger.  Unless there was an inherent variability which you already said there isn't.  So take your pick, either I don't have AD/HD by your own logic...or by your own logic AD/HD isn't caused by commercials.
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ADD starts as  as KID watching sponge bob square pants!
Nothing to do with me. :)
Quote
Your ADD will never go away that simple nor by taking pills IF IT CANNOT BE CURED FROM THE ROOTS!
You said that ADD is cured by getting rid of commercials.  If commercials have a dose/response relationship then I am very likely to be cured.   If they don't have a dose/response relationship then there has to be an inherent variability. :) :) :) But you already said there wasn't....soooo again make up your mind which way you want to be wrong and get back to me. :)
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Since tell me of a MAGIC PILL that cures it?
I don't take any regular medication but if I had ADHD which stopped me from holding down a good job even with psychosocial therapy.  I'd at least consider trying Adderal
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The same thing is with OCD
Well is this change of topic #30?  Seems like it is.
Quote
Well I wish but I don't have the time nor the years.
What? You can't even cure yourself? LOL
Quote
I'm just trying to ENLIGHTEN those that want to be enlighten!
When you give someone a "cure"  that you can't provide experimental evidence for in any way.  "Enlightenment" isn't as good a word as "Ignorance" is.
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there are VARIABLES (genetic and behavioral)
All of a sudden genetics are a risk factor but a few 100%'s ago it was all about TV, then TV commercials, then TV and radio commercials and then magazine commercials and then poorly defined terms like "distractions".
Quote
From looking at different angles
There is really no evidence you do this.  The only angle you look at things from is from your pre-existing stupid prejudices.
Quote
many UPON many studies that other people do always points to BEHAVIRAL “disease”.
Please point out a study from a medical journal.
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NO! we only learn in this world
This is not really responding to what I said.  You called me stubborn.  I'm just saying that your argument is stupid and your evidence laughable, inconsistent and contrary to much better research. So that's why I don't believe you. 
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You just not that informed about the world
well that's what you need to tell yourself to avoid thinking about what I say. :)
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I'm pretty sure someone is being enlighten by what I type
Ahh but you said "ONLY" and now you're saying that you're mostly doing it for entertainment.  One of those is a lie.  Let me know. :) :) :)
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I said “I 100% sure know that KNOWLEDGE is the CURE!”
Actually you said that you know a number of things "100%" all of which mean you have a problem with ego and arrogance. :)

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you keep on dis...
Only when it's funny.
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..secting everything I say and take it out of context!
I'm taking it in the context it appears to be offered.  Again you're off topic (about being off-topic which is kind of awesome).  So if you want to stop talking about different things.  You need to stop mentioning irrelevant things because your knowledge of medical is so bad that you just end up making dumb mistakes.
Quote
, you just chop
...when it's funny.
Quote
It has been obvious that you are just NIT PICKING my answers for a while now!
Here'os another theory. You are so woefully uninformed and ignorant about virology that things which are important (like the difference between strain and serotype) seem like nit picking because you are literally so dumb you don't know what is important and what isn't. :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
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I understand that you believing that i'm 26 times OFF TOPIC of what you speak off...because you are not looking at things from different ANGELS!
Dude you're the one who is calling me talking about a topic you brought up as "off topic".  So, if you want me to respond about different things.  Then you need to talk about different things.  Let me know when you can admit fault. :)
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That is how wireless electronics work too!
By being off-topic? lol - this is #30 - congratulations!
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“evolution”? = mistakes gives knowledge
Off-topic #31. Not really about mistakes.  It's more about knowledge being generated by imposing a validating structure on data.
Quote
Or did you take a pill?
False dichotomy. :)
Quote
Ok what's your pick?
I'll pick a game where the rules can be explained in a few minutes.  Sound good to you?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 31, 2015, 06:37:29 PM
As you must be well aware by now, in the Land of Looney Tunes (U.S. Medical Establishment) anything is possible.
Seems like you want to squirm some more.  Awesome! This makes my day.  I really appreciate it. :)

So you believe it's possible that someone with a real medical problem (for which there is no existing diagnosis) can come into a doctors office and get a diagnosis of ADHD.

The obvious question then is do you believe that this represents a significant number of people who walk into a doctors office and get an ADHD diagnosis.

Again, simple yes or now will do but if you really want to make me happy you'll waffle some more. :) :) :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on January 31, 2015, 07:01:09 PM
why would you spend taxpayer dollars playing radio ads suggesting the above?  There MAY be some benefit?
Well....

a) The added cost to taxpayers to administer the vaccine for the few people who are sitting on the fence and would be swayed with a radio commercial is negligible.
b) It's still considered somewhere between 10% and 23% effective which is still many orders of magnitude greater than the risk
c) Most people take more action for less effect.  Which means it's as least, if not more rational as the actions of the majority of people.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 31, 2015, 11:57:48 PM
Well....

a) The added cost to taxpayers to administer the vaccine for the few people who are sitting on the fence and would be swayed with a radio commercial is negligible.
b) It's still considered somewhere between 10% and 23% effective which is still many orders of magnitude greater than the risk
c) Most people take more action for less effect.  Which means it's as least, if not more rational as the actions of the majority of people.

OK.  Item B explains their use of the phrase "not likely to help prevent".
       Item C does not concern me as I don't really care what most people do.
       Item A tells me that they are spending our money to promote a product made by a private company.  Taxpayers do not spend money to promote my company...right?  I have a problem with this.

Now, if I were seriously ill and clinging to life, and any kind of flu might kill me, I would surely take the shot, just to be safe, and I would not need any taxpayer to spend a dime to convince me to do so.

This is not meant to be any type of indictment on vaccines in general, which in my opinion do much more good than harm, but specifically this year's
"batch" and the use of our money to promote a private company's product.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 01, 2015, 12:12:19 AM
Ain't the FDA just wonderful (http://www.zengardner.com/cereal-killer-kelloggs-junk-food-now-fortified-weedkiller-gmos/) in how it so
carefully protects the health of 'Merkun
kids?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 01, 2015, 04:56:21 AM
Item B explains their use of the phrase "not likely to help prevent".
That still results in lives saved and sick-days unspent.
Quote
Item C does not concern me as I don't really care what most people do.
Your question was "why would you spend...". I assume you meant "Why would a rational person spend".  When an action is more rational than what people would otherwise use their time/money for the end result over a large enough population will be positive.  This is, at least in broad strokes a rational goal.
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Item A tells me that they are spending
Very little, for a product which does protect people.
Quote
to promote a product made by a private company
Probably not.  They are spending money to help consume a perishable product they already purchased which will have zero effect if it's never administered.  So the question is simply one of the cost to achieve an advantage.  Administration of the vaccine and the cost of the PSA are probably very low.  While the advantage of the vaccine isn't high it's not implausible to think that this confers some advantage or is at least break even.  Making it the rational thing for the government to do.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 01, 2015, 05:02:58 AM
That still results in lives saved and sick-days unspent.Your question was "why would...". When an action is more rational than what people would otherwise use their time/money for the end result over a large enough population will be positive.  Your concern is probably not necessary for what the government is doing to be rational.Very little, for a product which does protect people.Probably not.  They are spending money to help consume a perishable product they already purchased which will have zero effect if it's never administered.  So the question is simply one of the cost to achieve an advantage.  Administration of the vaccine and the cost of the PSA are probably very low.  While the advantage of the vaccine isn't high it's not implausible to think that this confers some advantage or is at least break even.  Making it the rational thing for the government to do.

Ah, I see, they (gov.) had already purchased X amount of doses from a private company and...they are attempting to get rid of them before they go bad.  This actually makes more sense.  They have already spent our tax dollars and, they did not want them to go to waste so, a little radio marketing helps them get folks to use them, even though it may, or may not help them.

In this light, i do agree that it was a rational thing for the gov. to do.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 01, 2015, 06:44:34 AM
This actually makes more sense.  They have already spent our tax dollars and, they did not want them to go to waste so, a little radio marketing helps them get folks to use them, even though it may, or may not help them.
I'll just stress that I have no inside knowledge of the US or other government purchasing but as the US administered 140 million vaccine doses in 2014 it's doubtful that it was all on a cash-and-carry basis.  As the Canadian government is a single-payer system virtually all of their insured expenses are done with some negotiation up front. i.e. We will buy X artificial hips @ $Y and be able to purchase more at $Z. It's also well publicized that the US and Canada had significant surplus H1N1 vaccine.  Some of which was donated and some was destroyed.  Other medications have known government stockpiles i.e. Tamiflu
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 01, 2015, 08:00:52 AM
Quote
I heard a radio public service announcement today that said...(paraphrasing) Even though this year's flu shot will not likely prevent you from getting the flu...we strongly urge everyone to get the shot anyway.  There MAY be some benefit in lessening the symptoms of the other strains of flu virus."

We have read about a female with maybe a weak immune system, die because she was forced to take one! Due to work policy!

That is not the right thing to do!

A lot of more thinking needs to be done by these “experts”.

There needs to be a lot of NEW WORLD ORDER because obviously the top people don't know what to do! (=GREED?)

I'm going to tell you 100% truth! KNOWLEDGE is the PILL! No pill/shot will ever cure the flu. NEVER! So this will continue on, people die by taking the flu shot and people live by taking it! It is simple!

In my house 3 people have the flu and I don't care which strain, all I know is that I'm not sick and I will not get sick unless the sick person coughs in my face, etc. you may ask why am I not sick? Well EDUCATION/KNOWLEDGE! I don't need no flu shot when I know hot to prevent it! That is the answer!

And you have to remember we are talking ONLY about a flue virus that only is deathly to a genetically born person that their immune system cannot cope with some strains but it's obvious that most healthy people only will be sick for 1-2 weeks. But this is the same scenario with other viruses.

The IGNORANCE is taken to viruses that there are no vaccinations too! Like AIDS. Now is where things start to make sense that PREVENTION is ONLY THE CURE! AND THAT IS TRUTH!

So why is “preventing” the flu virus is via a flu show and PREVETING for aids is by KNOWLEDGE? Care to tell me why? Money! = GREED!

Scientists kill a lot of people due to IGNORANCE. I mean there are some doctors that operate on the wrong side of the leg! Or leave operating tools in the human body! = GREED! I'm 100% sure they would never operate on the wrong side of the limb nor leave a tool inside the body if they where operating their own body! Plain and simple.

The whole world needs some “MAINTENANCE” for the better good! In all parts, in this case we are talking about medicine but we can talk about pollution, money, politics, science, electricity, it's just way tooo out of hand!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on February 01, 2015, 08:15:14 AM
Quote
So why is “preventing” the flu virus is via a flu show and PREVETING for aids is by KNOWLEDGE? Care to tell me why?



Because the HIV virus is born with gills and fins and the flue virus is born with wings and legs. 300% TRUTH.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 01, 2015, 08:23:39 AM
OK sark, it's obvious you are smiling all over the place due to putting smiling faces at the end of 90% of your responses. The main point just goes flying over your brain!.

AT this point your entertainment just got old as well as your KNOWLEDGE!

I seriously just see you as a troll myself. You are here just waiting for “newbies” to attack to enhance your pride only! (how is that spreading the truth?) ok. With that attitude, you are really being a dim witted virus to this forum.

But let me keep on going for a little bit more shits and giggles!

Quote
I'll pick a game where the rules can be explained in a few minutes.  Sound good to you?

Yeah I'm game! What's the “game”? Enlighten me with your KNOWEDGE.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 01, 2015, 08:34:48 AM
Quote
Because the HIV virus is born with gills and fins and the flue virus is born with wings and legs. 300% TRUTH.

MEH! This does not mean anything!

You in ply MEH! “gills and fins” as of being a “fish”  and “wings and legs” being outside of the water!

What?

I have deal with people like you! You are the typical “the big bang” defines everything! IOW< you have no ability to think deeper!

I mean, the HIV virus has not cure AND DEADLIEST THAN THE FLU VIRUS, so our only option is to get the virus in our body via KNOWLEDGE on how to prevent it!

Then we have the flu virus that comes every year and the ONLY solution is to TAKE A FLU SHOT?

Please show me the scientific knowledge of that graph?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on February 01, 2015, 08:48:34 AM
MEH! This does not mean anything!You in ply MEH! “gills and fins” as of being a “fish”  and “wings and legs” being outside of the water! What? I have deal with people like you! You are the typical “the big bang” defines everything! IOW< you have no ability to think deeper! I mean, the HIV virus has not cure AND DEADLIEST THAN THE FLU VIRUS, so our only option is to get the virus in our body via KNOWLEDGE on how to prevent it!Then we have the flu virus that comes every year and the ONLY solution is to TAKE A FLU SHOT? Please show me the scientific knowledge of that graph?


 :D


Great! Now you can't even parse your own kindergarten JoeLingo? Is the stew that simmers in your skull write only?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 01, 2015, 09:01:07 AM
Quote
Great! Now you can't even parse your own kindergarten JoeLingo? Is the stew that simmers in your skull write only?

OBVIOUSLY there is a A LOT of miscommunication going on here!

1- You are being too BLAND in explaining in what you are even trying to say!

2- there is no cure for HIV yet there are some “cures” for some FLU virus strains!

All I was trying to say it that IT IS BETTER TO AVOID THE VIRUS IN THE FIRST PLACE THAN TO CURE IT WITH VACCINES!

I would accept your insult of kindergarten if you insult me further with actual KNOWLEDGE!

I honestly don't understand what you mean.

Are you a doctor?

Do you take flu shots every year? If you do, you have never gotten sick?

How do you prevent the HIV virus?

How do you know the HIV virus exists? How do you know it spreads?

You are being the opposite of sark.

All I know is that one line sentences are lazy!  8)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on February 01, 2015, 09:09:59 AM
OBVIOUSLY there is a A LOT of miscommunication going on here!

1- You are being too BLAND in explaining in what you are even trying to say!

2- there is no cure for HIV yet there are some “cures” for some FLU virus strains!

All I was trying to say it that IT IS BETTER TO AVOID THE VIRUS IN THE FIRST PLACE THAN TO CURE IT WITH VACCINES!

I would accept your insult of kindergarten if you insult me further with actual KNOWLEDGE!

I honestly don't understand what you mean.

Are you a doctor?

Do you take flu shots every year? If you do, you have never gotten sick?

How do you prevent the HIV virus?

How do you know the HIV virus exists? How do you know it spreads?

You are being the opposite of sark.

All I know is that one line sentences are lazy!  8)


Says the poster who strings together a fulminant array of nonsensical one-liners.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 01, 2015, 09:25:21 AM
Quote
Says the poster who strings together a fulminant array of nonsensical one-liners.

look at your ONE_LINER while I asked sooo many things!

I wrote 12 lines and you just give me ONE LINE as a response!

NO KNOWLEDGE WHAT SO EVER ORBUT!

You may be good at electronics! BUT THATS ABOUT IT.

As a matter of fact, tell me how you prevent of getting sick from ANY VIRUS. Not just the flu virus, but ANY virus!

There are to many to NAME!

How do you prevent viruses from entering your body? VIA some resistors, transistors, diodes, capacitors, coils, transformers, etc? I'm sure that is your expertise and you have no other KNOWLEDGE outside that!

Or do you?

Let me look in to my crystal ball, all I'm going to get is a one-liner! Lol since one line sentences explain everything.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 01, 2015, 06:26:47 PM
We have read about a female with maybe a weak immune system, die because she was forced to take one!
Nope.  She died from sepsis due to the flu.  Just the kind of deaths you encourage. :)
Quote
Due to work policy!
Health care workers are often required to for the safety of the patents.
Quote
A lot of more thinking needs to be done by these “experts”.
...or people like yourself could think for once and perhaps read something. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 01, 2015, 06:35:33 PM
OK sark, it's obvious you are smiling all over the place
I guess it's clear that your argument is beat now.  Thanks for conceding. :)
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The main point just goes flying over your brain!.
I have responded clearly to each point you have made.  It's your near complete ignorance that's causing you problems I think.
Quote
You are here just waiting for “newbies” to attack to enhance your pride only!
I told you I'm speaking for three reasons.  One is to educate you, the other is to educate people who read your nonsense and thirdly for the entertainment of myself and my friends.
Quote
But let me keep on going for a little bit more shits and giggles!
Not using "shytes" this time?  Interesting
Quote
Yeah I'm game! What's the “game”? Enlighten me with your KNOWEDGE.
We will play "go" on http://www.kiseido.com/ you will create an account, tell me the account name here.  I'll create one and post it here.  We will then agree on a date and time (GMT) to play.   At that time we will play a few games with short time limits on moves.  Since KGS is a third-party the games will be public record and the outcome will be clear as there are no ties.

Go has simple rules and no random element.  So the game itself is almost pure strategy and thinking.  Let me know what your first excuse not to play is. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 01, 2015, 08:32:32 PM
The twenty-one curious questions we're never
allowed to ask about vaccines. (http://www.naturalnews.com/048467_vaccine_industry_intelligent_questions_scientific_principles.html)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: kEhYo77 on February 01, 2015, 09:18:19 PM
@SeaMonkey
Great article there.

God created life perfect, healthy bodies do not need poisonous chemicals to artificially boost production of antybodies!
which in the long run lowers general immunity response to viruses due to system overload (many vacccines taken).
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on February 01, 2015, 09:26:47 PM
@SeaMonkey
Great article there.

God created life perfect, healthy bodies do not need poisonous chemicals to artificially boost production of antybodies!
which in the long run lowers general immunity response to viruses due to system overload (many vacccines taken).
So do you think it is mere coincidence that post neonatal, and child mortality rates have dropped to 1/20th of what they were in 1935?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: kEhYo77 on February 01, 2015, 09:33:38 PM
Hygene standards went up, all diseases went down just because of that long before (http://vaccineliberationarmy.com/2014/03/20/suzanne-humphries-md/) the introduction of vaccines.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 01, 2015, 10:03:27 PM
@SeaMonkey
Great article there.
In other words you didn't read it?

If you did, please point out one of question that a) You believe represents undeniably strong evidence for vaccine harm or ineffectiveness and b) Which is clearly and unambiguously censored on a regular basis. 

Just one question each. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 01, 2015, 10:09:29 PM
The twenty-one  questions people ask all the time and they get answered all the time and are not really problematic in any way but doesn't stop people like Mike Adams from pretending there's a big problem (http://www.naturalnews.com/048467_vaccine_industry_intelligent_questions_scientific_principles.html)
So again were is your answer about ADHD.  Do you believe that a significant number of people who have a real medical problem which has no other diagnosis go into a doctors office and come out with a diagnosis of ADD.

....or you can keep ignoring, squirming and deflecting.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: kEhYo77 on February 01, 2015, 10:10:04 PM
@ Sark


All your BS conversation tactics are the proof for You to be either a loonie blindly believing some 'legit' studies
or You are just being paid to do this 'job'.


I have done my research on the topic and I know how many thing work.


I am putting You on ignore list.


Pozdro

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 01, 2015, 10:15:22 PM
All your BS conversation tactics
Dude.  There are 21 questions there and for the sake of simplicity I asked you for the strongest evidence first.  I figure we should start our talk about the BEST evidence for vaccine harm, ineffectiveness and censorship of criticism.  What is BS about that?  It would seem a rather straight-forward and reasonable way to discuss things you think are clearly and unarguably true.
Quote
I have done my research
Then please provide me with real peer reviewed studies that make your point.  I'm certainly open to changing my mind - I'm just not ignorant or gullible - so evidence has to meet mathematical standards of strength.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on February 01, 2015, 11:22:08 PM
Hygene standards went up, all diseases went down just because of that long before (http://vaccineliberationarmy.com/2014/03/20/suzanne-humphries-md/) the introduction of vaccines.
Dude:  The data refutes your idea.  Indoor plumbing was widespread in the USA before 1935.  If sanitation was the major driver as opposed to vaccines then the introduction of vaccines would have had little or even a reverse trend correlation.  Instead, the curve is nearly an identical declining exponential since the introduction of vaccines.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sparks on February 02, 2015, 04:22:44 AM
If they can vaccinate against the flu why not the common cold? 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 02, 2015, 04:35:56 AM
If they can vaccinate against the flu why not the common cold?
RNA virus vs DNA.

RNA has an error rate of 1 in 10^5, DNA has an error rate of 1 in 10^10.  Which means there are probably 100 000 times the variability in rhinoviruses and Noroviruses than in the flu.

TL;DR - more targets and they are moving faster.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 02, 2015, 07:21:18 AM
Quote
She died from sepsis due to the flu.  Just the kind of deaths you encourage.

She died after getting the flu shot. This happens and will continue to happen. I don't understand why you won't admit that.

Are you trying to tell me that she, at that age, never had the flu before in her entire life?

Some detective work needs to be done there but it showed how the OBLIGATORY flu shot was the cause.

The best course of action is to EXXAMINE people that are at higher risks of dying from the flu shot than rather say LETS GIVE MANDATORY FLU SHOTS TO EVEYONE.

Your brain fails you to understand that OBVIOUSLY the company does not want sick people at work so they won't pay sick days....or even is they don't pay sick days, they know that when one person does not show will not make them money.

I'm on your side sark. There are a lot of things to complain about and mandatory shots is NOT THE ANSWER.

Quote
Health care workers are often required to for the safety of the patents.

Well it's not really FOR THE SAFETY of the patients, is more due to GREED. Health workers are sanitized mentally that they treat sick people like chickens in a farm.

Health care workers do that more regarding not getting the rest of the co-workers sick during flu season as to not allot of people calling in sick with a fever = loose money for the company.

Being in health care, how is the flu virus going to spread with you are required to wash your hands, cover your mouth with a mask, in fact you also need to protect yourself from not getting a disease from a patient!

If a health care worker gets the flu virus, I would believe that's an ignorant health care worker!

Plus you are talking about health care workers and probably do not even think about kids in schools that spread the flu virus either. I know all kids will get the flu virus strain in their life time. I myself got the flu during kindergarten, middle school, high school, etc....so I find it hard to believe that the lady died due to the flu and not by the flu shot! Even they admitted that they pay people/re-compensate for people that die due to flu shots. So those are facts.

You are debating about things that are happening all over the place, I don't even know why you ignore those facts? Maybe when one of your kids dies via the flu virus is when you will take that serious. Some people need to learn the hard way.

Quote
...or people like yourself could think for once and perhaps read something.

why does a little diamond rock less than half an inch costs upwards of $50,000+ dollars?

Why does ginseng can cost up to $1000+ dollars a pound (“Appalachian Outlaws” TV show)?
What type of books can I read to understand real life?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 02, 2015, 07:52:24 AM
Quote
I guess it's clear that your argument is beat now.  Thanks for conceding.

Your ADD, OCD, and who knows what else, just gets in the way of STAYING ON POINT! = ULTIMATE GOAL!

You keep on chopping up my sentences left and right to the point that we goooo way out of context. = you have no actual skills in trying to look at the main point. This is obvious to me by now. You need pills to cure that lol.

Quote
I have responded clearly to each point you have made.  It's your near complete ignorance that's causing you problems I think.

“It's your near complete ignorance that's causing you problems I think.”

I have the same point since the beginning. Tell me what are your main points? I'm asking a simple question.

Do you want the whole world to get MANDATORY vaccinated?

Quote
I told you I'm speaking for three reasons.  One is to educate you, the other is to educate people who read your nonsense and thirdly for the entertainment of myself and my friends.

OK, no problem there.

How do you educate people? Just give me an example of lets say, your brother? Your brother does not know anything regarding vaccinations but you do and don't want him to get sick. How do you educate him that he will believe on what you say?

Noticed how I didn't CHOPPED OF YOUR PARAGRAPH? Please learn to do this because this is what keeps everything in text.

Quote
We will play "go" on http://www.kiseido.com/ you will create an account, tell me the account name here.  I'll create one and post it here.  We will then agree on a date and time (GMT) to play.   At that time we will play a few games with short time limits on moves.  Since KGS is a third-party the games will be public record and the outcome will be clear as there are no ties.

Go has simple rules and no random element.  So the game itself is almost pure strategy and thinking.  Let me know what your first excuse not to play is.

Dude we are talking about VACCINATIONS not online games. By the way I read the “how to play go” and the board on the description is not 19x19, is 18x18...that is cancer right there. Lol

I could ask you to play BF4 with only sniper riffles against me and i'm sure I will destroy you easy.....we are speaking about VACCINATIONS or MEDICINAL related stuff here bro. Lol

wut!

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 02, 2015, 08:07:02 AM
Quote
http://www.naturalnews.com/048445_vaccine_skeptics_imprisonment_USA_Today.html

wow! Now things are getting serious here! This only shows how many people are so ignorant regarding medicine.

IN my mind i'm like, IF YOU CARE SO MUCH FOR PEOPLES' lives, why are you killing them with obesity?

I would vote to take obese people to jail and only get released when they loose weight!

Wow, I'm not an expert regarding this but just newly introduced to this, but WOW!

Those military people are even stupid because they give their lives for the BIG BROTHER.

Who in here can tell me how world war 1 started?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 02, 2015, 08:52:03 AM
Quote
http://vaccineliberationarmy.com/2014/03/20/suzanne-humphries-md/

WOW, I only subscribed to this forum to learn from the experts and to understand LOGICAL stuff, but MY EYES are being opened little by little regarding vaccinations.

This is not really that hard to understand!

This can also be seen in:

-jobs
-politics
-relationships
-cosmology
-greed
-schools
-atmospheric scientists
-etc...

wow, everyone is so confused BY GREED!

Or everyone is only chasing the carrot dollar!

It is 100% FACTS that all medicine carries side effect that to a point will be deadly, be it either fast or slow, does not matter. One only chooses from:

1- do I want to learn to to prevent a disease and not die.
2- do I want to get vaccinated and die SLOWLY.

To my eyes #1 is a winner!

If even DOCTORS vaccine engineers had the courage to speak out, things would change.

THERE IS NO CURE WHAT SO EVER WITH VACCINATIONS.

Even the dandruff virus in the head. NO! It will never get cured!

Do you know how you get the dandruff virus on your head? For those that have it, does 'head-n-shoulders”? Cure it? It is common since that AS LONG AS THE IMMUNE SYSTEM CANNOT CURSE IT< THE BODY WILL NEVER CURE IT NOR A SHAMPOO! This is 100% facts...all the dandruff sufferers know that you will get it back if you stop using head-n-shoulers while not even understanding what that shampoo is doing to your immune system!

Now think about it! This is for all viruses. The medicine does not cure the virus...if you believe in NO QEG's, how can a vaccine cure the body? What's goes through your mind that you do not believe in QEG's yet you believe in a VACCINE?

Getting back to the dandruff virus, there is no cure for it. Everyone that gets it will have it for their rest of their life. What the shampoo does is just burn the top layer of the skin and taking the virus with it. That's all...but it will come back since you are already carrying it. Actually your immune system is fighting so you can become immune to it. Blah blah blah....ywan! Yet again, it is better to EDUCATE the poepl than to tell them that head-and-shoulders shampoo will get rid of it, because ti never will. 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 02, 2015, 09:58:23 AM
Sark, how much do the 20 something vaccinations cost in the USA, Africa, Europe, Asia?

I don't know, I'm just asking how much they cost. I don't have kids.

I don't even know how much a flu vaccine costs since I've never had one! I don't have the flu nor the common cold with out vaccinations...seriously...I'm enjoying winter! I don't even know if there's a summer PREDOMINANT virus too, but i'm afraid there is one. lol, but EDUCATION and COMMON mother nature SENSE has tough us how to live longer.

You can't ignore the facts that the dinosaurs have lived for billions of years, yes I said HAVE LIVED because we still have dinosaurs living with us today in the year 2015.

homosepiants (however you spell it) are 10,000 years old. (not billions). Our modern life is what? Starting from the 1900's?

So if we weigh out the KNOWLEDGE of EVOLUTION and EXPERIENCE vs MOTHER NATURE, mother nature WINS 10000000%%.

I don't need anti-antiperspirant to plug up my sweat ducts with aluminum powder. I don't need to be told that the cells surrounding my arm pits do not need cooling since sweat is the bodies' HAVAC system. What i do know is that the STINK comes from UNWASHED armpits. and the sweat comes do to my body over heating.

LOL, this world is so crazy every angle of life needs someone to stand up for them because they are getting taken advantage off left and right = GREED! (people kill for $15 dollars for crying out loud=undereducated people that will live less no matter how many vaccinations one gives them)

I can 100% assure you right now there is some crazy scientists right now that is funded with billions of dollars trying to give mars a HOSPITABLE ozone layer.

And also, I can tell you right now that ALIENS DO EXISTS and that dinosaurs are living in another planet and that there are “animals” that are living way longer than us in another bigger earth.

Can you picture how the mammoth was 15 feet tall? Your average home has 8' high ceilings, can you imagine a two story elephant? Now imagine a 20 foot tall t-rex? Now imagine as a mathematician the tallest dinosaur in this earth and do crunch some numbers! Now CAN U IMAGINE WHERE THERE IS A BIGGER SUN WHERE THERE IS A BIGGER EARTH, HOW TALL THE DINOSAURS WOULD BE? Just based on geometry and math, animals could be really really big if there are “earth's” in space that are 4 times it's size! Since growth is determined by the size of the earth in the MOST frutifying years. 20 foot tall t-rex would be 40 feet tall in an outer space in an earth that is bigger than ours in circumference!

To get back on point, how much money do vaccinations GENERATE each year in all mentioned places annually?


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on February 02, 2015, 02:42:41 PM

Paid shill quote:

" She died from sepsis due to the flu.  Just the kind of deaths you encourage."


In case any of you are wondering where the paid shill disappeared to, he is very busy desperately trying to find something...ANYTHING at all... to back up his words quoted above.

Now is the time to make the same demand that he is always making of every thing anyone says....

' I suppose you can back that statement up with documentation '

Its up to you guys to 'demand' that he substantiate his claim, as he has me on ignore because of my potential to sport that critically weak excuse.

Right now, all I hear are the crickets of silence that have replaced his bravado.

Game set and match.

Regards...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 02, 2015, 02:51:59 PM
She died after getting the flu shot.
She also died after talking on the phone, driving a car, walking down the street and eating breakfast.  You can't assume causation.  It's called a "post hoc fallacy" read a book. :)
Quote
Are you trying to tell me that she, at that age, never had the flu before in her entire life?
Why would that be relevant?  Oh that's right it wouldn't.  She had a bad case of the flu - it occasionally kills people just the way you want it to.
Quote
Some detective work needs to be done there but it showed how the OBLIGATORY flu shot was the cause.
You can't use a clause that's in the future "needs to be done" with a subordinate clause in the past "it showed".

There is absolutely no evidence to say that this was caused by the flu shot.  Over the billions of shots where is the evidence that sepsis is correlated?  Nowhere.  Why because sepsis is the result of an infection and you can't get that from a inactivated vaccine.
Quote
The best course of action is to EXXAMINE people that are at higher risks of dying from the flu shot than rather say LETS GIVE MANDATORY FLU SHOTS TO EVEYONE.
Not in a hospital environment. 
Quote
I'm on your side sark.
Best insult yet. :)
Quote
Well it's not really FOR THE SAFETY of the patients, is more due to GREED
Nope.  It's for patient safety.  People can go home when they are sick and come back when they are feeling better but still infect people.  Hospitals are almost a closed environment with regard to ID control. 
Quote
Being in health care, how is the flu virus going to spread with you are required to wash your hands, cover your mouth with a mask,
Because none of these are perfect solutions even when done to spec.
Quote
If a health care worker gets the flu virus, I would believe that's an ignorant health care worker!
Because you are stupid. :)
Quote
Plus you are talking about health care workers
Because this was someone who worked in the health care field moron.
Quote
I find it hard to believe that the lady died due to the flu and not by the flu shot!
Because you haven't taken math.  The odds of dying of the flu shot are known, the odds of dying of the flu are known.  The former is orders of magnitude smaller than the later.  If it's "hard to believe" that's because you're ignorant.
Quote
Even they admitted that they pay people/re-compensate for people that die due to flu shots. So those are facts.

Who is "they" subject-change-boy?
Quote
why does a little diamond rock less than half an inch costs upwards of $50,000+ dollars?
Change of subject.
Quote
Why does ginseng can cost up to $1000+ dollars a pound (“Appalachian Outlaws” TV show)?
Change of subject.
Quote
What type of books can I read to understand real life?
Statistics.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on February 02, 2015, 02:58:13 PM
Paid shill quote:

" She died from sepsis due to the flu.  Just the kind of deaths you encourage."


In case any of you are wondering where the paid shill disappeared to, he is very busy desperately trying to find something...ANYTHING at all... to back up his words quoted above.

Now is the time to make the same demand that he is always making of every thing anyone says....

' I suppose you can back that statement up with documentation '

Its up to you guys to 'demand' that he substantiate his claim, as he has me on ignore because of my potential to sport that critically weak excuse.

Actually, like his arse kisser, the butt pirate, he only pretends to have me on ignore.

Right now, he's throwing it all against the wall to distract attention from the above.

Game set and match.

Regards...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 02, 2015, 03:11:19 PM
Your ADD, OCD, and who knows what else, just gets in the way of STAYING ON POINT! = ULTIMATE GOAL!
Dude.  I have responded clearly to everything you've posted.  If there's a problem the topic shifting it's because you keep changing it.  I've even shown you where you do this.  So I have to assume you're changing subject deliberately and are trolling. :)
Quote
You keep on chopping
Whats that?
Quote
up
I'm not sure I understand.
Quote
my
Come again?
Quote
sentences
Ohhh....I see.  Only when it's funny.  Normally I just use comments after every "thought" of yours.  It's a technique that was used in Usenet a lot.
Quote
I have the same point since the beginning.
Yawn, no.  You might have something resembling a point but you keep flailing about on different topics and when it's shown to you that you are changing subject you pretend that this was all part of your made-up main point.
Quote
tell me what are your main points? I'm asking a simple question.
Simple, a lot of things you post are incredibly stupid and I think it's fun and educational to correct you and make you look silly.
Quote
Do you want the whole world to get MANDATORY vaccinated?
There's probably a level of diminishing returns.
Quote
How do you educate him that he will believe on what you say?
To start: I listen to what he is saying then I correct the things that are wrong and explain why.
Quote
Noticed how I didn't CHOPPED
What's that?
Quote
OF
Didn't quite hear you.
Quote
YOUR
Hmmm?
Quote
PARAGRAPH?
Oh...actually you have dozens of times.  :-)
Quote
Dude we are talking about VACCINATIONS
No, we are talking about your claim that ANYTHING I can do you can do better.  Especially anything that involves intelligence.  I gave you the opportunity to prove that and you're already trying to weasel out.
Quote
not online games.
I told you it was a game and you said "ok" but now you're not so confident. LOL.  Loser.
Quote
By the way I read the “how to play go” and the board on the description is not 19x19, is 18x18...that is cancer right there.
Apparently all you did was look at a picture.  You play go on the points of the board, not the squares.  A board with 18x18 squares will have 19x19 points.  Please think before you speak. :) :) :) :) :)
Quote
I could ask you to play BF4 with only sniper riffles against me and i'm sure I will destroy you easy
YOU are the one who claimed that ANYTHING I could do you could do better especially if it was intellectual.  I'm more than comfortable saying that many fifteen year olds can beat me at BF4. 
Quote
.....we are speaking about VACCINATIONS or MEDICINAL related stuff here bro
I asked you if a game was ok and you said yes.  So it seems you are dumber than usual today. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 02, 2015, 03:30:12 PM
Sark, how much do the 20 something vaccinations cost in the USA, Africa, Europe, Asia?
It varies.  Many countries have vaccinations paid for by the government.  Administration in NA is probably about $10.
Quote
You can't ignore the facts that the dinosaurs have lived for billions of years
You seem capable of ignoring that population density is a huge factor in ID control. 
Quote
homosepiants (however you spell it) are 10,000 years old.
Try 200,000
Quote
So if we weigh out the KNOWLEDGE of EVOLUTION and EXPERIENCE vs MOTHER NATURE, mother nature WINS 10000000%%.
No.  It's nature that is trying to kill you.
Quote
What i do know is that the STINK comes from UNWASHED armpits.
That's a little backwards.  Washing your armpits starts a cycle which allows bacteria to grow.  Which requires you to wash your armpits again.  However some people do not have the time to wash every time they smell bad.  Some people smell bad within a few hours of washing their armpits.  It is entirely reasonable for those people (and others) to use antiperspirant.
Quote
frutifying
Not a word used in ordinary English. 
Quote
To get back on point,
Glad you realize for once that it's you who keep taking this off point. :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on February 02, 2015, 05:01:00 PM
Paid shill quote:

" She died from sepsis due to the flu.  Just the kind of deaths you encourage."


In case any of you are wondering where the paid shill disappeared to, he is very busy desperately trying to find something...ANYTHING at all... to back up his words quoted above.

Now is the time to make the same demand that he is always making of every thing anyone says....

' I suppose you can back that statement up with documentation '

Its up to you guys to 'demand' that he substantiate his claim, as he has me on ignore because of my potential to sport that critically weak excuse.

Actually, like his arse kisser, the butt pirate, he only pretends to have me on ignore.

Right now, he's throwing it all against the wall to distract attention from the above.

Game set and match.

Regards...



Boy oh boy, the paid shill sure wants to bury my post copied above really bad, doesn't he ...hmmm, wonder that wood be ?

His 15 minute life span here is about over.

Time for a new moniker methinks.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on February 02, 2015, 08:19:15 PM
And this is about the very last thing our resident (former, that is) paid shill wants to see revealed...


" An Italian court has unearthed a formerly classified document that proves vaccines cause death, and that vaccine companies don't want you to know this. "

http://www.naturalnews.com/048430_vaccines_sudden_death_Big_Pharma.html


Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 02, 2015, 08:49:53 PM
Quote from: Capt-Zeee-row
" An Italian court has unearthed a formerly classified document that proves vaccines cause death, and that vaccine companies don't want you to know this. "

http://www.naturalnews.com/048430_vaccines_sudden_death_Big_Pharma.html (http://www.naturalnews.com/048430_vaccines_sudden_death_Big_Pharma.html)

But Sark, before you digest the above article,
please elucidate upon the "She died of sepsis"
remark made earlier.  Full documentation of
her untimely death would be most appreciated.

Then you may read the above linked article.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 02, 2015, 10:04:16 PM
But Sark, before you digest the above article,please elucidate upon the "She died of sepsis" remark made earlier.  Full documentation of her untimely death would be most appreciated.
From the majority of news articles regarding the McQuestion girl.  I'm more than happy to read your link and respond to it.  If you quote a specific area which you consider to be STRONG evidence toward some point.  Just a short section, two or three sentences. :)

Also it's interesting that you're still avoiding, squirming and deflecting responding to my question about ADHD. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on February 02, 2015, 10:25:50 PM
Is that a shill death rattle I hear ?

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 03, 2015, 01:45:33 AM
A very easy article to write would be Questions That Were Not Allowed to ask Anti-Vaccine Nutcases on Overunity

1. Can you clearly define your point.
2. Can you provide strong evidence to support your point.
3. Can you show statistically how your point is better supported than other prevailing ideas among scientists.

Shit writes itself. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on February 03, 2015, 03:49:14 AM
Look at that shill dance around the evidence...wonder if he's wearing his tu tu.

His time here is near an end.

He will be missed by some I'm sure...his shill buddies and his personal arse kisser, the butt pirate to name but a few.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on February 03, 2015, 06:46:25 AM
Merck vaccine scientist threatened with jail time for trying to expose massive vaccine data manipulation and fraud
Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/048483_vaccine_research_scientific_fraud_Merck.html#ixzz3QeqeWzk7 (http://www.naturalnews.com/048483_vaccine_research_scientific_fraud_Merck.html#ixzz3QeqeWzk7)


Mags
[/color]
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 03, 2015, 07:26:24 AM
Quote from: Sark-Eizen
...
Also it's interesting that you're still avoiding, squirming and deflecting responding to my question about ADHD. :)

Sailors are aboard vessels upon the high seas.  Vessels
upon the high seas heave and roll in response to wave
action and the state of the sea.  Otherwise steady as a
rock when sea-legs become operational.

Now, about your fortuitous claim:  ADD and ADHD are non-existent
fabricated 'conditions' which have been created by those who
are addicted to the Love of Money.  Love of Money.

Pharmaceutical=Makers of Poisons

Any comprehensive legal dictionary which traces word origins
will verify that meaning.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 03, 2015, 07:34:57 AM
Here we go again dissecting my paragraphs! But it's not really a big deal for me, it's just diverting from the main point. Pretty simple.

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She also died after talking on the phone, driving a car, walking down the street and eating breakfast.  You can't assume causation.  It's called a "post hoc fallacy" read a book.

huh! We already know that a person dies every 5 minutes every time the clock hits 5 minutes.

IN this case it is 90% guaranteed she died after the flu MANDATORY shot.

What are you even trying to say LOGICALLY?

It is pretty obvious that the flu shot killed her. What we also need to UNDERSTAND is if she even went to the right doctor too. Which you seem to BELIEVE that there are no shaddy doctors out there just pretending to be doctors to cash in the gullible!

These are facts. Have you watched the show ''American greed”? There are many people deliberately pretending to be doctors out there givin fake flu shots just to make money.

So this is why your brain is not capable of understanding life and how things work because you are living in a bubble and ignoring alll the angels to look at things! Ah well!

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Why would that be relevant?  Oh that's right it wouldn't.  She had a bad case of the flu - it occasionally kills people just the way you want it to.

it is very unlikely for a healthy 30 something year old to DIE from the flu virus and these are facts.

So you are telling me that she never had the flu virus before in hear before years and then all of a sudden after getting a mandatory flu shot, she died due to a “BAD CASE” of the flu that killed her?

The ignorance is strong with this guy.

Ok lets say that she died due to a “BAD CASE” of the flu virus, TELL ME WHICH STRAIN ACTUALLY KILLED HER?

Then tell me why did that strain did no kill another person?

Then tell me why did another person DIED from the same strain?

Use your brain, it is there for a reason.

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There is absolutely no evidence to say that this was caused by the flu shot.

Show the studies you made to come up with this conclusion besides RELIGIOUSLY believing in your ignorance?

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Over the billions of shots where is the evidence that sepsis is correlated?  Nowhere.  Why because sepsis is the result of an infection and you can't get that from a inactivated vaccine.

It is 100% obvious that some people will die from the flu shot! Nothing you can say will not change the facts. Remember when I said one person dies every 5 minutes, one person will die every flu shot they get. It's all just a matter of using your brain and understanding how the LADDER WORKS! 100% facts that some people will die from the flu shot.

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Not in a hospital environment. 

lol OMG, this guys has/will kill many people due to ignorance.

This is a soooo ignorant person that I kind of don't want you to work in a hospital environment with out a knowledgeable doctor telling you what to do.

If a person gets in a car accident and is allergic to some type of medicine, THE HISTORY OF THE PERSON does not tell the allergic reaction to such medicine? = EXAMINE!

How have the dinosaurs survived for billions of years with out any VACSINATIONS?

And here comes an EGOTISTICAL wannabe trying to cure all deceases that help humanity! And then says that VACSINATION is the future. That is just ignorance.

There will be a IMPLOSION of humanity and I'm sure all your genetic CODE will go along with all. You can't look past your nose!

 
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Best insult yet.

that was actually not an insult. Actually you believing it was shows ONLY your ignorance.

So who does not want to like 100 years?

So wants for their kids to also live 100 years?

We ALL think the same, is just that road blocks are getting in our heads!

How 1000000% facts have dinosaurs have lived for billions of years with out vaccinations?

When was the first vaccination created for human beings?

For some reason vaccination = destruction of life. The only thing that is getting in our way is medicite to cure obesity with pills when the cure is to get rid of fatty foods.

The cure for an alcoholic is to get rid of beer. No therapy needed no 12 step programs!

Smoking addictive people do not need patches or electronic cigarettes. For thousands of years people have been smoking and getting high here and there. There is nothing wrong with smoking nor getting high, the only problem is when they WANT TO MAKE A PROFIT FROM REGULAR THINGS PEOPLE ENJOY TO DO. But your brain is not capable to undstand that.

And yes I'm still on point even if you can't see it because your brain is not that capable to see outside the invisible brain waves!
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It's for patient safety.  People can go home when they are sick and come back when they are feeling better but still infect people.  Hospitals are almost a closed environment with regard to ID control.

HUH!

SHOULD NOT PEOPLE GO HOME WHEN THEY ARE NOT SICK?

This guy is really a number.

How many times do I have to tell you the OBVIOUS FACTS!

-wash hands to wash the virus away from hands when a doctor operates.

-sanitize the wound to kill the viruses in the surrounding area of the wound as to not ALLOW any viruses in the body.

-give anesthesia to the person as to not make it that painful = DRUGS!

All of this information is pure simplistic.

Do you think the HOSPITALS are just trying to CURE people for free?

Hospitals are there to make money and are very corrupt!

I can use a bottle of tequila as anesthesia for $20 USA dollars. The hospital will charge you $800 USA dollars. This is very simplistic to understand that the IGNORANCE of UNEDUCATED people do not understand.

Your brain fails you so many times because you are focusing at things from your ONE ANGEL!

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Because none of these are perfect solutions even when done to spec.

NO! because of EVOLUTION, medicine cannot keep the stupid people alive when EVOLUTION calls for them to just be eaten by a lion...lets stop lying to people!

EDUCATION/EVOLUTION is truth...not PILLS!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 03, 2015, 08:02:37 AM
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Because you are stupid.

Lets define STUPIDITY!

If I work in a hospital and understand 100% sure how the flu virus spreads, I should understand that it spreads via SLING SHOTING itself via coughing.  = check! = The virus brain has learn that it is more successful regarding this. Maybe even intelligent enough to understand how people sneeze and manipulate the mere fact that sneezing is a DEFENCE mechanism for animals.

So I understand that when winter is coming, the flu virus is more PREDOMUNANT to get inside a humans body!

Well lets see, maybe it's October? November? December?  DO YOU HAVE THE FLU VIRUS ON JULY?

So now we have all of this SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDE!

We understand when the virus is predominant! And we understand how it's spreads!

The ONLY solution is a vaccine?

This is the same thing as trying to kill roaches from your house or going to war and trying to win it!

So we understand 100% how the flu virus works and when it's more predominant and understand it's HIGH WAY TO HELL, via the cough, we cannot just get rid of it via TEACHING the people how to prevent it RATHER than VACCINATIN everyone with vaccine PREDOMINANT strains?

Well yeah, that is actually making the FLU virus stronger than ever. HELPING it to become more POTENT!

I I was living in an island with 30 people. No medicine just knowledge! The flu virus hits us and we understand it's ACTIVITY, then I saw....everyone cough to the ground, don't cough in your hand. Wash your hands before eating..100% sure the flu virus will die and never come back in the island. This is how life works!

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Because you haven't taken math.  The odds of dying of the flu shot are known, the odds of dying of the flu are known.  The former is orders of magnitude smaller than the later.  If it's "hard to believe" that's because you're ignorant.

Well I'm just a t-Rex dinosaur ...roar!

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Who is "they" subject-change-boy?

The flu shot makers pay compensating money to the people that die from it BOY! = negligence for not understanding that SHOTS ARE NOT FOR EVEYONE!

Some people are allergic to peanuts!

Some people are ellergid to bee stings!
Some people are allergic to cat hair!

Some people are allergic to pig meat!

SOME PEOPLE ARE ELLERGIC TO FLU SHOTS!

When one makes flu shots MANDATORY, they are negligent in understanding who is allergic to them and who is not! DUMB BOY!

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Change of subject.

Is not really a “change of subject” what it really means is that YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND TO VIEW ZTHINGS FROM DIFFERENT ANGELS.

I fell bad when people die out of IGNORANCE, but when I see ignorant people that give their TRUST to experts and kill them, that is murder.

You don't deserve to work in the medical field sir! Maybe you have killed people from your ignorance when you could have saved them! I personally HOPE TO GOD, you don't work as a health care person where I live. I'm being honest!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 03, 2015, 08:53:41 AM
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I have responded clearly to everything you've posted.

Clearly in your dementia mind! Lol

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If there's a problem the topic shifting it's because you keep changing it.  I've even shown you where you do this. 

Ok, do you have OCD?

Do you have ADD?

How much do you weigh?

How tall are you?

How many vaccinations have you had in your entire life?

How do you avoid the HIV virus?

How do you make money?

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Whats that?

chop – (chopping) cut (something) into small pieces with repeated sharp blows using an ax or knife.

How stupid do you have to be to not imply that you cut my paragraphs with your tongue knife? This is 100% facts, you have no argument what so ever 100% facts!

You want me to tell you what CHOPPING means? What a waste of time here and shows the brain capabilities of the asking person!

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You might have something resembling a point but you keep flailing about on different topics and when it's shown to you that you are changing subject you pretend that this was all part of your made-up main point.

My points are still the same from the beginning, the only thing that you don't understand is that I”M LOOKING AT THINGS FROM DIFFERENT ANGLES!

My main points are the same! I'm just here trying to be enlighten from what I can see. To maybe help your dad, mom, sister, brother, son, daughter, since all humans  only VALUE their close ones and treat the others like chopped liver. This is facts!

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Simple, a lot of things you post are incredibly stupid and I think it's fun and educational to correct you and make you look silly.

Is that really the ULTIMATE GOAL?

How have you corrected me in any way?

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There's probably a level of diminishing returns.

What are those “diminishing” returns? That are PROBABLE! Lol

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To start: I listen to what he is saying then I correct the things that are wrong and explain why.

How healthy is your family?

Do you 100% understand and believe all of them will live to be 100 years old?

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No, we are talking about your claim that ANYTHING I can do you can do better.

LOL really! I will never beat you at being better at sucking! I don't aim for that.

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I told you it was a game

We are not playing games, we are talking about people that die due to negligence! I honestly thought you were going to show me the 100% cure for something regarding vaccinations or medicine but then you gave me that 18x18 game board link! Your genetic code will not get that far to be honest 100% lol.

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Apparently all you did was look at a picture.

How am I wrong when I counted 18x18 squares when the instructions say 19x19 squares.

If we play on points well who cares if we play on 40x40 squares but it just needs to be CONSITENT!

What is the meanings of 19x19 points VS 500x500 points?

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YOU are the one who claimed that ANYTHING I could do you could do better especially if it was intellectual.  I'm more than comfortable saying that many fifteen year olds can beat me at BF4

I'm more than confident that I can beat any 15 year old in BF4 while you are afraid of them!

When have you seen a 15 year old president?

You are sooo stupid. Aging may reduce body REACTION but it fuels the neurons. = a 15 yr old will never beat a 50 yr old. If a 15 yr old beats a 50 yr old, then the 50 yr old WILL be fresh meat to another 50 yr old.

Besides that, I'm not here trying to beat you at anything! Thats not my goal! I only CARE ABOUT TRUTH! = the ultimate! If I have to beat you, so be it....so far you are not that challenging! You seem to me more little a chihuahua dog trying to bite TO BE HONEST!

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I asked you if a game was ok and you said yes.  So it seems you are dumber than usual today.

My mistake was that I ASSUMED WE WHERE TALKING ABOUT MEDICINAL “GAMES”. So I guess we can start the game all over now that 100% it is clarified!

Give me a game regarding vaccination or medical stuff?

I'LL STILL PLAY! I'M NOT INTIMIDATED BY YOUR BRAIN POTENTIAL AT ALL! REGARDING VACCINATIONS OR MEDICINE!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on February 03, 2015, 09:43:51 AM
@Mag
Quote
Merck vaccine scientist threatened with jail time for trying to expose
massive vaccine data manipulation and fraudLearn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/048483_vaccine_research_scientific_fraud_Merck.html#ixzz3QeqeWzk7 (http://www.naturalnews.com/048483_vaccine_research_scientific_fraud_Merck.html#ixzz3QeqeWzk7)
Fraud would seem to be rampant in this industry.
AC
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 03, 2015, 01:53:48 PM
Now, about your fortuitous claim:  ADD and ADHD are non-existent fabricated 'conditions' which have been created by those who are addicted to the Love of Money.  Love of Money.
Make sure you say "greed" or "love of money" a few more times in your next post because you may not make your point clear. :)

Your conclusions are of course understood but really pretty irrelevant to the discussion.  What I first asked was: Do people with no other medical diagnosis but with a real medical problem go into a doctors office and get a diagnosis of ADHD.   What I asked next was:  Do you think this is the case with most people who have a diagnosis of ADHD.

I mean clearly people get diagnosed with ADHD and clearly they are in a doctors office for some reason when they do.  I'm just asking how you think they go from walking in to diagnosis?  You can say "greed" or "it's not a real condition" as much as you want but they are just empty words unless you can tell me what's going on. 

Unless that's all you have...empty words?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 03, 2015, 05:42:05 PM
You think it's guaranteed that McQuestion died after the flu shot.  However it's likely that she died months after the flu shot.  People in health care are usually required to get the shot as early as possible.  I'm often on the priority list for vaccinations so I speak with some confidence about this.  Even during H1N1 there was some vaccine rationing in places.  The health care workers got served first.  Same with Tamiflu.

So with regard to the flu shot being causative.  It's probably as close to impossible as you can get.  All sources report that COD was sepsis.  Sepsis is the response to an infection it's almost impossible to get influenza from an inactivated vaccine.   However there are plenty of cases showing people with the flu getting sepsis.  So your theory is less likely that what is getting reported.  Your theory also requires that there was an allergic reaction.  Allergic reactions look nothing like sepsis.  So it's even less likely.  Furthermore you haven't explained what was she allergic to?  A vaccine is primarily a suspension, preservatives, adjuvant, virus and some trace amounts of the culture medium.  Everything but the culture medium and the virus are used in many other foods and medicines.  If these were an allergen then there would be a enormous problem.  The adjuvants are used in more limited respect.   However if there were serious allergies to adjuvants to the levels in vaccines. We would see people dying everywhere.  Which leaves the virus and the culture.  In fact we know that some people who are allergic to eggs will have an allergic reaction to vaccines cultured in eggs.  This is why people get asked.  Which only leaves the virus - but if you're allergic to that the flu would kill you anyway.

So your idea that there is some secret allergy which presents just like sepsis but it so some other ingredient in vaccines is now even less likely...add to that the fact that in all likelihood she had a vaccine a while before dying.  Your ideas are simply and completely inferior to mine.

As for which strain killed her and why are there no other deaths?  The likely suspect is the serotype H3N2 but I doubt they do typing for this kind of thing and in case you haven't been reading reports it is killing other people.
 
The idea that vaccinations make the flu stronger is pretty uninformed.  If that were true we would see an increase in flu mortality over the past few decades.  Instead we see a flat trend with peaks and valleys.  What makes a new strain of virus is a change in replication.  A new strain isn't necessarily stronger but it does have a chance of not being covered by the vaccine. 
 
With respect to diminishing returns.  Every vaccination makes further infection more difficult by some likelihood.  There will come a point at which the positive predictive value of infection is not significantly lowered by vaccinating further or even that the cost of vaccinating further doesn't reduce the costs of additional care required for disease victims.  That's what "diminishing returns" means.

I have no idea why you accepted an invitation to play an intellectual game and are now making excuses but the offer still stands. 

If you accept then go ahead and create your kiseido account and report back here and we can arrange a time to play a few games. :)

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on February 03, 2015, 06:11:15 PM
@MagFraud would seem to be rampant in this industry.
AC

Fraud? More like 'agenda'.  ;)   Agenda 21

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 03, 2015, 07:58:52 PM
Quote from: Sark-Eizen
...
You can say "greed" or "it's not a real condition" as much as you want but they are just empty words unless you can tell me what's going on. 

Unless that's all you have...empty words?

Until you reach the stage in your life development
where you've become ready to 'handle the TRUTH'
your programming will see all that is in disagreement
with your deceived belief system as 'empty words.'

Only you will know when you've reached that plateau.

Only you have the responsibility to find TRUTH.

It will happen;  whether you want it to or not.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on February 03, 2015, 08:22:23 PM
He' a paid shill for the luva god !

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 03, 2015, 09:02:43 PM
The technology has long existed which would enable
the production of vaccines which are completely safe
and completely effective at inducing immunity to disease.

That the present Medical System of the Establishment
chooses instead to produce faulty vaccines which are
intended to adversely affect the health of those who
receive them via vaccination speaks volumes.

Love of Money.

Sick and diseased people represent Money.

The Medical Establishment is naught more than
a Money-Making Business which does only enough
to effect 'cure' to sustain its deceptive veneer of
'doing good.'

Sickness=Money

Quote from: Cap-Z-ro
He' a paid shill for the luva god !

And so it would seem.  There are many.

Fortunately, their 'arguments' are found to be
un-persuasive.  Their following is tiny.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 03, 2015, 10:50:31 PM
your programming will see all that is in disagreement with your deceived belief system as 'empty words.'
Nope.  If it was just "programming" then I couldn't show you how your words are empty.  So thanks for defeating your own argument.

If you recall I first asked: Do people with no other medical diagnosis but with a real medical problem go into a doctors office and get a diagnosis of ADHD and then I asked:  Do you think this is the case with most people who have a diagnosis of ADHD.

You can whine about "love of money" or "greed" until you feel smarter but those words don't say anything about if the people who get diagnoses have a real problem or not.  This is why your words are empty.

You can keep deflecting and squirming but it won't make you any smarter. :)

P.S. You posted a link that I would gladly read if you found the really strong bits and posted them here.  You haven't so that means it wasn't worth reading right?  Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 04, 2015, 02:12:27 AM
Funny thing.  Today on the radio, the news announced that Obama has seen the research and vaccines have no connection to autism whatsoever.
In 2008, his soundbite in his own voice claimed that vaccines were poising our children and putting them at higher risk for autism.

He now claims that anyone that does not want children vaccinated, must hate children.  Funny thing about that is, in his budget he submitted, he cut the funding for child vaccinations by 50%!!

So, does this add anything useful to this conversation/debate?  No.  It simply shows that our "brilliant" president can play both sides and hope we forget what he said before.  2 days ago, he claimed he was the first president since Washington to brew "Booze" in the white house.  Well, Washington was never in the white house as president (it was not built at that time) and, you do not brew booze, booze is distilled.  Other than that, he was correct.

What an idiot!

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on February 04, 2015, 02:23:04 AM
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/09/09/barack-obama-provaccine/ (http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/09/09/barack-obama-provaccine/)


 :o ??? :-\
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 04, 2015, 02:49:04 AM
No.  It simply shows that our "brilliant" president can play both sides and hope we forget what he said before.
The quote I found said this: "We’ve seen just a skyrocketing autism rate. Some people are suspicious that it’s connected to the vaccines. This person included. The science right now is inconclusive, but we have to research it."

The best light I think one can read this in is that he has corrected his view and didn't say "ooops" which would have been awesome but I hold a low bar for politicians.  Hillary was a bit closer but she supported a vaxxed/unvaxxed study which would have been a waste of research dollars.  McCain pretty much outright blamed mercury for autism.

So when grading on a curve...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 04, 2015, 03:19:58 AM
The quote I found said this: "We’ve seen just a skyrocketing autism rate. Some people are suspicious that it’s connected to the vaccines. This person included. The science right now is inconclusive, but we have to research it."

The best light I think one can read this in is that he has corrected his view and didn't say "ooops" which would have been awesome but I hold a low bar for politicians.  Hillary was a bit closer but she supported a vaxxed/unvaxxed study which would have been a waste of research dollars.  McCain pretty much outright blamed mercury for autism.

So when grading on a curve...

True enough Sark.  But, and no one on  either side is talking about this...the reason obama is going to use his executive powers to ORDER measles vaccinations is really due to his allowing (from another exec. order) 50,000 illegal children into the US and once here, dispersed to secret locations around the US where they are now attending school.  We had eradicated the measles in this country as you are aware.  Now, there is a shocking rise of this disease and no one can figure out why it is back.  Give me a break.  He caused this problem (illegally using powers he does not have) and now, he is going to order all children vaccinated...EXCEPT, illegals as he claims we have no jurisdiction over them.

I mean, can you believe this crap?

Now, the repubs are the bad guys because they are questioning his power to order parents to have their children vaccinated.  A lot of parents do not want to do this due, mostly to the unsubstantiated rumors of a tie between vaccinations and autism.  So, to me, the answer is to give the parents the choice, and educate them on the risks and benefits using real math from real studies. (Like the numbers you have been using)

I do not like to be ordered to do anything.  I refuse (mostly because it is no where near affordable for me) to participate in the obamacare nightmare...nor will I ever pay the fine. (I can not afford that either)  The fine, right now, is half of what I make/month.  The cost of participating is 90% of my monthly income for a  $10,000 deductible plan.  No way I can do this.

This sucks.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on February 04, 2015, 04:26:01 AM
Unvaccinated children should not be allowed to attend school: PERIOD.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on February 04, 2015, 04:28:45 AM

I mean, can you believe this crap?



No, it sounds a little too weird.


Maybe it's only half as scary if you try to research and find out the lower-caps truth. The secret import of 'illegal' children sounds pretty much like the usual scaremongering truther/birther bullshit the mentally slow are fed by the Koch brothers and their drones. Tea-Party material to fvck the poor and uneducated just a little bit more. 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 04, 2015, 04:53:46 AM
Quote
http://www.naturalnews.com/048483_vaccine_research_scientific_fraud_Merck.html#ixzz3QeqeWzk7

This makes perfect sense in everything.

-relationships.
-greed.
-businesses.

So there is no trusting VACCINATIONS 100% period.

I'm not really an expert in this but even it can make sense in a production line. Some people may believe that I'm out of topic but is the same thing. In a production, they all have deadlines to meet. Those deadlines when given on time = GREAT PROFITS.

When somting happens in their production that is going to delay their product and not meet their quota, the GREED in the mind starts to do crazy things. Like

“And adding rabbit antibodies as a supplement to a vaccine was not an option because it could result in serious complications to a human, even death.”

“Emini responded that the rabbit antibodies were necessary for Merck to achieve the project's objective.“

What just happened right there is GREED. Negligence of the health of human beings as to achieve the "objective" = MEET THE QUOTA.

So what happens is that they got payed by CHEATING at the risk of potentially killing people and then afterwards playing the “blaming game” accompanied with “lets destroy the data" 007 style.

This is a perfect scenario that GREED is a big disease.

This is why I say that vaccines are mostly a cash cow business. There is no way of stopping them because then how do they make their money?

Then all of the ignorant people who are not very well educated start to blame other things. Yet their TV remote control has fecal mater all over the buttons. Lol = ignorance is a disease. I'm not even joking. The dirtiest item in the living room is the TV remote and highly probable due to fecal mater. in a civilized modern world, with education, why do we still have cave men KNOWLEDGE! lol
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 04, 2015, 05:29:37 AM
But, and no one on  either side is talking about this...the reason obama is going to use his executive powers to ORDER measles vaccinations is really due to his allowing (from another exec. order) 50,000 illegal children into the US and once here, dispersed to secret locations around the US where they are now attending school.
What I read said they are with their relatives. 
Quote
Now, there is a shocking rise of this disease and no one can figure out why it is back.
Nobody knows exactly but evidence suggests declining immunization.  Measles is an exceptionally contagious disease. 10-15x more contagious than influenza.  However it is almost perfectly controllable.  Two doses of the vaccine is as close to 100% effective.  Immigration seems like a long shot - it would depend on where the children are from.  I would assume that people crossing the Texas border are predominantly from Mexico.  Mexico has a better childhood vaccination rate than the US.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on February 04, 2015, 05:37:53 AM
And then there's the depopulation agenda as per the Georgia Guidestones dictate.

The care so much about us...just ask them.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on February 04, 2015, 05:38:51 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/07/15/us/questions-about-the-border-kids.html (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/07/15/us/questions-about-the-border-kids.html)


Some answers...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 04, 2015, 06:10:59 AM
What I read said they are with their relatives.  Nobody knows exactly but evidence suggests declining immunization.  Measles is an exceptionally contagious disease. 10-15x more contagious than influenza.  However it is almost perfectly controllable.  Two doses of the vaccine is as close to 100% effective.  Immigration seems like a long shot - it would depend on where the children are from.  I would assume that people crossing the Texas border are predominantly from Mexico.  Mexico has a better childhood vaccination rate than the US.

No, the kids crossed through Mexico and are from Guatemala,, Uruguay, and Ecuador.  Not staying with relatives, they have none in the US...yet.  They will be coming next.  The border patrol reported that many, many of these kids were very sick, with high fever and other symptoms.  The Gov. of TN found out that like 5,000 of these kids were shipped to his state and the Feds will not tell him how many, and where they are.  Mexico, which has tough immigration laws, would not allow them to stay there but did allow them to pass through after obama requested this.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 04, 2015, 06:25:51 AM

No, it sounds a little too weird.


Maybe it's only half as scary if you try to research and find out the lower-caps truth. The secret import of 'illegal' children sounds pretty much like the usual scaremongering truther/birther bullshit the mentally slow are fed by the Koch brothers and their drones. Tea-Party material to fvck the poor and uneducated just a little bit more.

I am a member of the tea party and you are very misinformed if you believe what you just posted.  All the tea party is, is a group of like minded people that are Taxed Enough Already.  That's it.  There is no leader, no political party...just named after the Boston Tea party which was about being taxed too much.  The media makes up all kinds of stuff which evidently you buy into, the truth is much more simple.  Birther bullshit?  Really?  Obama surrendered his citizenship when he became a citizen of Indonesia so he could attend school there.  Non-citizens can not attend school and they do not allow dual citizenship.  Then he came to the US and went to college on foreign student scholarships which is why all of his records are sealed, along with his grades and his college papers.  His SSN belongs to a dead man.  Obama claimed they ran out of numbers and had to re-issue the one he has.  The SSA says they have never, ever, re-issued a SSN...ever.

So, nothing to see here, it is just all sealed for the heck of it...move along and ignore this.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on February 04, 2015, 06:33:57 AM
@Pirate
Quote
Now, the repubs are the bad guys because they are questioning his power to
order parents to have their children vaccinated.  A lot of parents do not want
to do this due, mostly to the unsubstantiated rumors of a tie between
vaccinations and autism.  So, to me, the answer is to give the parents the
choice, and educate them on the risks and benefits using real math from real
studies. (Like the numbers you have been using)
They are also talking about mandatory vaccinations in Canada however I cannot see it working. The thing to remember is that if I get my children vaccinated and something happens then as their legal guardian I am responsible for them. If the government mandates it and something happens then they are liable and I sue there ass into oblivion. Liability is the difference between choosing to do something and being forced to do something by someone else. As well if I recal some legal aid groups wrote up documents which care givers were requested to sign prior to being vaccinated making them accept sole responsibility ie. liability should something happen. Of course nobody in their right mind would sign it as everyone seems to have an strong opinion just absolutely no conviction to ever be held accountable for their opinion. It is comical how so many extremists talk of mandatory vaccinations, I would say sure you just sign this little piece of paper saying you will accept sole responsibility for the result and put everything you own on the line and I will consider it, LOL.

Which is odd in itself that those who claim to know all the facts without any doubt would never ever accept any responsibility for there claim. As if to say I am a responsible adult and believe in democracy but you my friend must do what I believe and not blame me if something ever happens. Hypocrites one and all and I consider them as being on the same level as used car salesmen.
 
AC
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 04, 2015, 06:44:06 AM
Quote
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/07/15/us/questions-about-the-border-kids.html?_r=0

This is turning a blind eye and blaming immigrants for illness when they forget that Nikola Tesla was an immigrant! Albert Einstein was an immigrant! Most of the education that America has ever had was from immigrants...even barrack Obama, that guy is an immigrant.

Why do we have to blame others when the simple fact is to teach people how to AVOID viruses in the FIRST PLACE!

The kids are not to blame, the GOVERMENT IS since they are there to take care of the people.

This is just going to BURST in to blaming “immigrants” while like I said, we have AC due to an immigrant named Nikola Tesla, we have some crazy ideas that may have prevented a nuclear war from Albert Einstein. Those to are PREDOMINANT intelligence in the USA while being immigrants!

Did they even get vaccinated while young?

Was it worth for them to immigrate to America to teach knowledge?

Stop blaming people. MOST PEOPLE WILL DIE FROM A MOSQUITO BITE IN THE USA more than from another virus.

Most people will die from DEERS than from a virus.

Most people will die from diabetes than from a virus.

Most people will die from cancer than from a virus.

Lets not get people paranoid! Lets be real!

Most people die from mosquito bites, deers, cancer, stupidity (jack ass), drugs (addiction) obesity (many studies have been done where it is 100% sure half of your life will be taken if you are obese)...

And then people worry about imaginary stuff! A break out is the least of your worries in the USA. You need to worry more about not clogging up your blood vessels. I'm talking to you fat people. :)

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 04, 2015, 06:47:31 AM
[deleted]
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 04, 2015, 06:49:36 AM
This is turning a blind eye and blaming immigrants for illness when they forget that Nikola Tesla was an immigrant! Albert Einstein was an immigrant! Most of the education that America has ever had was from immigrants...even barrack Obama, that guy is an immigrant.

Why do we have to blame others when the simple fact is to teach people how to AVOID viruses in the FIRST PLACE!

The kids are not to blame, the GOVERMENT IS since they are there to take care of the people.

This is just going to BURST in to blaming “immigrants” while like I said, we have AC due to an immigrant named Nikola Tesla, we have some crazy ideas that may have prevented a nuclear war from Albert Einstein. Those to are PREDOMINANT intelligence in the USA while being immigrants!

Did they even get vaccinated while young?

Was it worth for them to immigrate to America to teach knowledge?

Stop blaming people. MOST PEOPLE WILL DIE FROM A MOSQUITO BITE IN THE USA more than from another virus.

Most people will die from DEERS than from a virus.

Most people will die from diabetes than from a virus.

Most people will die from cancer than from a virus.

Lets not get people paranoid! Lets be real!

Most people die from mosquito bites, deers, cancer, stupidity (jack ass), drugs (addiction) obesity (many studies have been done where it is 100% sure half of your life will be taken if you are obese)...

And then people worry about imaginary stuff! A break out is the least of your worries in the USA. You need to worry more about not clogging up your blood vessels. I'm talking to you fat people. :)

You left out the word...illegal.  It is illegal immigrants that are not vaccinated and come here with out being checked out for illness.  All of those others you mentioned (except obama) came here legally and were held on Ellis Island to make sure they were not sick.  This was done to protect the citizens of our country, and it worked.  Now we have an illegal immigrant allowing millions of other illegal immigrants in with no checks at all.  And the experts wonder why previously eradicated illnesses are on the rise?

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 04, 2015, 07:08:08 AM
Quote
You left out the word...illegal.  It is illegal immigrants that are not vaccinated and come here with out being checked out for illness.  All of those others you mentioned (except obama) came here legally and were held on Ellis Island to make sure they were not sick.  This was done to protect the citizens of our country, and it worked.  Now we have an illegal immigrant allowing millions of other illegal immigrants in with no checks at all.  And the experts wonder why previously eradicated illnesses are on the rise?

All the facts I mentioned just went over your head sir. What does this mean?

You are struggling in life.

You struggle for money!

Your only option is to just blame everyone else!

What do you do for a living sir, with all due respect?

How are you helping the economy, with all due respect?

Do you believe that believing in ignorance is going to help your disabilities? I know they wont!

You sir have no mental power.

You are just not capable to be an engineer sir. That is not a bad thing, but your words are not that important as to someone who knows what they are really talking about.

Please answer since I'm doing some scientific studies for the greater good.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 04, 2015, 07:24:07 AM
All the facts I mentioned just went over your head sir. What does this mean?

You are struggling in life.

You struggle for money!

Your only option is to just blame everyone else!

What do you do for a living sir, with all due respect?

How are you helping the economy, with all due respect?

Do you believe that believing in ignorance is going to help your disabilities? I know they wont!

You sir have no mental power.

You are just not capable to be an engineer sir. That is not a bad thing, but your words are not that important as to someone who knows what they are really talking about.

Please answer since I'm doing some scientific studies for the greater good.

So, is this your twisted way of saying that there is no difference between legal and illegal immigrants?  OK then.  Now I know where you stand.  (I am not surprised)

I am not capable of engineering?  Gee, I will have to alert all of my former customers like NASA, Boeing, Bell Labs, MIT, Princeton University, DARPA, General Dynamics, Naval Research, Lawrence Livermore Labs, ATT, ITT, Knolls Atomic Labs, Disney Imagineers and many others that the parts we made for them can't be any good because you said I am too stupid to design them.  I am sure they will all want a refund.

The day you do a real scientific study is the day monkeys fly out of my ass.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 04, 2015, 07:26:08 AM
Liability is the difference between choosing to do something and being forced to do something by someone else.
No, liability is failure to meet your legal obligation to act.  So lets say your child dies of GBS from a government mandated vaccine.  They are not liable until you prove that they failed to meet a legal obligation.  For example adequate safety testing could be used.  If it could be shown that the government was negligent in this then that would constitute a failure to act.  However just because something bad happens does not necessitate a liability.

Quote
It is comical how so many extremists talk of mandatory vaccinations, I would say sure you just sign this little piece of paper saying you will accept sole responsibility for the result and put everything you own on the line and I will consider it,
One good reason I wouldn't sign such a thing is simply due to the vagaries of the legal system.  While I might have high-confidence in the safety and efficacy of vaccines.  I don't have anywhere near as much confidence in juries and judges.  I mean take you for example. :)  If juries were peopled by someone like yourself who has many strong beliefs based on weak evidence.  I'm not very confident that you would be able to make a correct judgement. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 04, 2015, 07:42:12 AM
Quote
So, is this your twisted way of saying that there is no difference between legal and illegal immigrants?  OK then.  Now I know where you stand.  (I am not surprised)

I am not capable of engineering?  Gee, I will have to alert all of my former customers like NASA, Boeing, Bell Labs, MIT, Princeton University, DARPA, General Dynamics, Naval Research, Lawrence Livermore Labs, ATT, ITT, Knolls Atomic Labs, Disney Imagineers and many others that the parts we made for them can't be any good because you said I am too stupid to design them.  I am sure they will all want a refund.

The day you do a real scientific study is the day monkeys fly out of my ass.

If you are/where an engineer I'm surprised how you can't see the REALITY of virus dangers.
-the mosquito is the deadliest animal in the USA.
-the deer comes close to second or third.
-followed by obesity and cancers.
-at the bottom of death is sexually transmitted deceases.
-way at the bottom is DEATH from immigrants.

So I ask myself, why are you not able to see facts! As we we get rid of ALL immigrants, for some miracle way, the mosquito bites will become less deadlier. Now think about it. You are blaming someone else for deaths due to ignorance.
As a SMART engineer, how do you get rid of mosquitoes?
As an engineer, why are you so scared about immigrants when we have more than 50% people dying from obesity than the viruses that vaccines are trying to prevent?
I appreciate your knowledge you did, but I find it amazing you fail to be more scared about not being vaccinated than a mosquito bite.
Even if a person has had a all vaccinations, they are at higher risk to die from a deer getting in your way while you are driving in the USA.
Now you are here being ALL PARANOID bout immigrants to save your life. Lets get rid of all the immigrants! Lets close the boarders. You are still left with the HIGHETS killers which are mosquito's, deer, obesity, cancers, etc, WAYYY greater than worrying about a virus outbreak! An outbreak will never happen.
How hard is it for you to put one and two together engineer sir?


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 04, 2015, 07:42:38 AM
Thoughts on The Conspiracy of Science;  a Better World
is Possible. (http://www.zengardner.com/conspiracy-science-better-world-possible/)

A Better World is coming but first there will be more
ugliness and destruction and death as War Inc. goes
about its business of taking over what is left of our
present World.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 04, 2015, 07:58:21 AM
Quote from: MarkE
Unvaccinated children should not be allowed to attend school: PERIOD.

In times past this would qualify as a very strange
outlook.  But back then Public Schools were actually
performing as they were intended.

Today the Public Schools are quite different and it is
for that reason that I agree with what you've said above.
In fact, I'd go a bit further as Dr Laura recommends:
Get your children out of the Public School system!

Home Schooling (the Original plan of raising responsible
and capable offspring) or other alternatives to Public Schools
are recommended by those who really know.

Public Schools have become Mass Indoctrination Centers for
the New Order of Things.  Their specialty is Mind Numbed Robots
who are incapable of Critical Thinking much less Thinking at all.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on February 04, 2015, 08:43:27 AM
@Sark
Quote
No, liability is failure to meet your legal obligation to act.  So lets say your
child dies of GBS from a government mandated vaccine.  They are not liable until
you prove that they failed to meet a legal obligation.  For example adequate
safety testing could be used.  If it could be shown that the government was
negligent in this then that would constitute a failure to act.  However just
because something bad happens does not necessitate a liability.

By definition liability means -- "one of the most significant words in the field of law, liability means legal responsibility for one's acts or omissions. Failure of a person or entity to meet that responsibility leaves him/her/it open to a lawsuit for any resulting damages". Now if you forced me get a vaccination by law which is an action on your part and it did harm/damage then you are solely responsible for your action which did harm...very simple. As you may know ignorance is not an actual excuse or defense for anything...it's just ignorance.

 
Quote
One good reason I wouldn't sign such a thing is
simply due to the vagaries of the legal system.  While I might have
high-confidence in the safety and efficacy of vaccines.  I don't have anywhere
near as much confidence in juries and judges.  I mean take you for example. (http://overunity.com/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
 If juries were peopled by someone like yourself who has many strong beliefs
based on weak evidence.  I'm not very confident that you would be able to make a
correct judgement.

 I think you know the odds of a very serious if not fatal side effect are about the same as winning the lottery however someone somewhere wins the lottery every week don't they?. What mandatory vaccination is saying is that we will have no choice and must play the lottery not unlike a completely screwed up version of the Hunger Games, at least she had a bow to shoot the stupid SOB that made her play while we do not.In any case I understand your view, your a smart guy but let's face the fact that nobody is willing to accept responsibility here and that is very disturbing. Everyone talks about facts and statistics and safety however nobody is willing to accept sole responsibility in any way, shape or form. As such I submit there is nothing truly responsible about them in my opinion as a responsible adult is just as it sounds --- Responsible - Adult. 
Forcing our will or beliefs on someone else and then accepting no responsiblity for our actions is not democracy moreso terrorism ie, acts intended to create fear.
 
AC 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 04, 2015, 08:55:17 AM
Quote
http://www.zengardner.com/conspiracy-science-better-world-possible/

That is a lot to digest for me but I can see the truth. I'm wondering right now who is the J P Morgan in the year 2015?

People are so focused in mere vaccinations! Where there is a wholeeee lot to be LEARNED!

There are black projects everywhere.

Vaccinations are not that IMPORTANT when it comes to the real meat of the bone.

I mean in the year 2015 we have ISIS terrorists! How do you vaccinate them?

And then we have GREED! Where rich people are trying to play god. It goes reallly deep. To the point that human beings are working for aliens. In exchange, the aliens give the humans KNOWLEDGE power = ELITES get power and money and aliens harvest humans as food.

A lot of people don't understand these things so we mostly just talk about things that are not underground stuff.

While I do like learning SCIENCE, I don't get blinded by the whole purpose of life since all ANIMALS have this encoding in our brains because that means = survival.

Genetic war, mental war, is the same = SURVIVAL!

What is the lagging of human survival you ask? Well it is money, duh! lol

On a side note, the average vaccine pro person does not even understand these type of stuff. While raging about vaccinations lol

Do they even understand "chemtrails" that are done over your head with out your permission. They feel the RIGHT to use people as lab rats as long as the rats don't complain.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on February 04, 2015, 09:15:14 AM
@Sark
Quote
If juries were peopled by someone like yourself who has many strong beliefs
based on weak evidence.  I'm not very confident that you would be able to
make a correct judgement.
I understand I may come off as a bit of a hard ass not unlike yourself, lol, however I think we have the same concerns. In fact I'm always the guy caught inbetween the two disputing parties and everyone keeps asking me to be the executor of their will and resolve business disputes for them.
As well recently my daughter needed to get the MMR shot for her work experience at the hospital and I was worried as any good parent should be however not so much that I didn't allow her to get the vaccination. I also quizzed the health nurse who was basically incompetent as I knew magnitudes more than she did about the shot she was giving which was also disturbing. In any case we may disagree at times however we are not the real problem because we have actually taken the time to debate the real issues and try to make informed decisions as best we can. Obviously if my daughter was vaccinated then I do not consider my views extreme nor my beliefs strong it's just that most of the people I meet are incompetent and I don't trust them. Take this anyway you like but from your posts I would trust you moreso than 80% of the people I meet because you seem like an rational and intelligent person who actually thinks things through.
 
AC
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 04, 2015, 06:58:53 PM
"one of the most significant words in the field of law"
You left out: "This requires evidence of the duty to act, the failure to fulfill that duty and the connection (proximate cause) of that failure to some injury or harm to the plaintiff. "
Quote
Now if you forced me get a vaccination by law which is an action on your part and it did harm/damage then you are solely responsible for your action which did harm
There are three parts there.  The duty to act, the failure to fulfill and the resultant injury.  In your example you only show the last.  Not all deaths are the result of a lack of duty to act.  For example just invert your scenario.  If the government had not yet approved a vaccine for some disease and your child died from it.  Can you sue them?  The government is effectively forcing you to not take the vaccine.
Quote
I think you know the odds of a very serious if not fatal side effect are about the same as winning the lottery however someone somewhere wins the lottery every week don't they?
The well-known serious side effect of common vaccines are few and far between.  i.e. GBS in influenza and outside of the Swine Flu epidemic of 1976.  You have considerably better odds of winning the lottery. 
Quote
What mandatory vaccination is saying is that we will have no choice and must play the lottery not unlike a completely screwed up version of the Hunger Games
Utter. Crap.  The hunger games had odds of 23 in 24 of death.  This is not comparable in the least.
Quote
Everyone talks about facts and statistics and safety however nobody is willing to accept sole responsibility in any way, shape or form.
Because sole responsibility for a particular death can not, in any way shape or form be assigned.  Think about it, I could tell you that if you were to vaccinate 5 million people the flu vaccine that you would expect X to die or seriously harmed due GBS because of the flu vaccine.  I could also tell you that another Y people will die of GBS from some other infection.  I could also tell you than Y is almost always at least 10x greater than X.  Ok now someone dies and it's because of GBS. Who has "sole responsibility"?  As everyone has been vaccinated at best the government could only claim X/Y+X responsibility per death.   But wait there's more!  That is only the AVERAGE amount of correlation! In other words you expect those values to converge on that ratio over time but there's nothing saying that in a given year that would be the actual ratio.  In fact somewhat paradoxically you expect them to vary.   So some years there all the GBS deaths will be due to some other infection.   Your ideas about "sole responsibility" are fine on the playground when causality is considerably more clear but in any sufficiently complicated system the math says "fuck off".
Quote
I understand I may come off as a bit of a hard ass
No offense, the word I would use is "idiot".  You have strong opinions without strong evidence.
Quote
As well recently my daughter needed to get the MMR shot for her work experience at the hospital and I was worried as any good parent should be however not so much that I didn't allow her to get the vaccination.
Unless your child is doing hospital work at the age of 4 then you've denied her MMR until then.  Why?  What credible source of information shows a problem with MMR?  The answer is pretty much zero.  Making a decision to not immunize against a deadly (4x more deaths than influenza) exceptionally contagious (10-15x more than influenza) perfectly controllable (~100% effectiveness with 2-doses) disease.  Is a strong belief and you did it based on exceptionally weak evidence.
Quote
I also quizzed the health nurse who was basically incompetent as I knew magnitudes more than she did about the shot she was giving which was also disturbing.
All that makes you is a bully.
Quote
we are not the real problem because we have actually taken the time to debate the real issues and try to make informed decisions as best we can.
I simply don't truck with the "all we need to do is debate" crowd.  The real problem, the one that might prompt mandatory vaccination - although I doubt it - is measles and people who make the decision to allow their children the opportunity to get the measles are definitely part of that problem.
Quote
Obviously if my daughter was vaccinated then I do not consider my views extreme nor my beliefs strong
Uh again is your daughter an infant?  I'm sure a lot of extremists think their views are "mainstream".
Quote
it's just that most of the people I meet are incompetent and I don't trust them.
See you are a good illustration with what is wrong with the way people teach critical thinking.  It's not about trying to find problems with other peoples ideas.  It's about finding problems with your own.  If you are not spending considerably more time trying to falsify your own beliefs then all you are doing is preserving your own prejudices.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 04, 2015, 08:46:06 PM
There has been some discussion of 'Reality TV Shows.'

This article will clarify the construct and the intent (http://www.thedailybell.com/editorials/36055/John-Whitehead-How-Reality-TV-Is-Teaching-Us-to-Accept-the-American-Police-State/?uuid=6F808B25-5056-9627-3C1C0B7DA4C0C1D3) of
Reality TV.

The People are being 'programmed' for what is already
almost here.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 04, 2015, 09:56:55 PM
It would be nice if when SeaMonkey is flinging his poo...er...posting articles.  That they actually point to studies when they say "studies suggest".

You could just as easily argue that SeaMonkey's article postings are more programming than reality TV.  One might think they are practically designed to dupe people, to play into their prejudices, provide a pretense of authority but no actual information that you can make a rational decision on.   

If true then it's ironic that SeaMonkey is fighting harder than anyone I've met to keep people unthinking drones. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on February 04, 2015, 11:14:22 PM
All you have to do is reverse everything these shills say and the truth is right there before you.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 05, 2015, 12:02:01 AM
Quote from: Sark-Eizen
It would be nice if when SeaMonkey is flinging his poo...er...posting articles.  That they actually point to studies when they say "studies suggest".

You could just as easily argue that SeaMonkey's article postings are more programming than reality TV.  One might think they are practically designed to dupe people, to play into their prejudices, provide a pretense of authority but no actual information that you can make a rational decision on.   

If true then it's ironic that SeaMonkey is fighting harder than anyone I've met to keep people unthinking drones. :)

Sark,

As you continue to express your deepest inner
thoughts the nature of your malady becomes
ever clearer.

The extent of your incapacity is staggering.  That
you seem unable to voice original, critical thoughts
is distressing.

We sincerely wish and hope that your condition improves
and that you will soon enjoy rational mental health.

It has been pointed out by expert authorities that self-study
and intensive research can be most beneficial.  In any case,
it is reported that such 'programming' as you suffer does
spontaneously begin to unravel at about age 30.

Don't give up!  You'll be better for a certainty.  A cold glass of
milk and two cookies of your choice will help you to feel better
too.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 05, 2015, 12:42:29 AM
As you continue to express your deepest inner thoughts
Awww did I hurt your feelings?  *hugs*  If I learned anything from watching a troll like you is that your dismissive pseudo-concern is probably another sign that you've been cornered.  I mean if you had anything resembling a non-stupid argument we would have seen it.  Instead you have to pretend that you don't debate.  However clearly you do attempt to defend your position when you think you have a leg to stand on but as that quickly gets kicked out from under you.  The result isthis amusing and near-constant dance of you attempting to assert something then running away.

For the record what I said was pretty simple and straightforward. You post articles that provide lots of assertions but very, very, very little in actual information.

So clearly an article that contains virtually no information outside some assertions is clearly not designed to inform, challenge or compel.  The only thing they only seem useful for is to bolster a pre-existing belief but probably no more so than standing in front of the mirror and telling yourself how right you are. :)   What else does that achieve but unthinking drones?  Or perhaps I misunderstand the function of those things.  Perhaps it's like reading affirmations where you tell yourself nice things to counteract the fact that most of the time you think you're rather stupid. :)

Anyway if you have some examples from your postings which represent strong evidence I'd be happy to examine them and change my mind but we all know that you don't. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 05, 2015, 01:34:00 AM
It is on the horizon and coming soon. (http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/essential-vocabulary-for-the-medical-police-state-descending-upon-america/)  Not only to
the U.S. but the entire West.

Guaranteed.

Sark,

Though you labor mightily (http://overunity.com/15147/vaccinations-recent-developments/msg436729/#msg436729) to create within your
ramblings some semblance of normalcy and the
ability to function as a literate, educated, superior
intellect;  there is some question as to whether
what you strive to portray is the genuine article
or simply just a fake.

That your programming has been intensive and that
it has accomplished its intended state of mind is
easily observed.  Hence, our empathic concern for
the resumption of your sanity - believing that at some
earlier state of your development such a thing existed.

We may be entirely wrong.  Perhaps it never did!

For shame.  A Mind is a Terrible Thing to Waste.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 05, 2015, 04:38:25 AM
Though you labor mightily
Dude.  I think you vastly overestimate how much time it takes to shoot you down.  My job isn't exactly what you'd call low-key.
Quote
to create within your ramblings some semblance of normalcy
Yawn.  Again the principle I'm putting forward is simple.  The vast majority of what you post is vapid nonsense.  Your posts provide virtually nothing but wild assertions which are supported at best by something the entirely unqualified writer misread and at worst nothing at all.

So, as I stated before your postings can't be used to inform someone, convince someone or even challenge a even mildly intelligent person.  Why? Because they have almost no information, they are almost entirely assertion. 

Ask yourself now:

Who gets convinced by nothing at all?  The gullible.
Who gets challenged by nothing at all? The ignorant.

Which is the only group that these posts can be "food for thought" for.  Hence this is what you are working hard to produce.  It's quite awesome.

Now it's possible that I'm wrong and there's some real meaty information in those posts.  If so, anyone here can show me and I'll change my mind.  If not, then SeaMonkey's claim to providing "food for thought" is only for the gullible and ignorant.  No offense but I'm not part of that target market. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 05, 2015, 07:49:06 AM
Quote
http://www.thedailybell.com/editorials/36055/John-Whitehead-How-Reality-TV-Is-Teaching-Us-to-Accept-the-American-Police-State/?uuid=6F808B25-5056-9627-3C1C0B7DA4C0C1D3

That is a very very interesting article to read. And it shows very clearly with out a doght that even the media will go BEYONG THE LAW IN PLAIN SIGHT, until someone shuts them down.

A lot of people are seeking answers for solutions. Everyone! Where only the GOOD GUYS with experience and no corrupt agenda will teach you. Just like you go to school. In your math class you pay attention and you learn, in another math class a out spoken person may distract the teacher with comedy so that particular class learns that the bully knows better than the teacher.

Further down the scientific road, we can see that the guy/girl whom actually learn what the teacher was leaning will be more successful than the guy whom just wanted to pop balloons and make an ass of himself to entertain!

This is very simplistic and shows the reality. As if the watcher is suffering in some way and the “drug” is to watch drama on TV.

In my own personal opinion one can see that at least reality TV shows are showing the real live truth. The animal planet, national geographic, and other nature/animal related animals have changed since the animals are gone. In 2015 50% of all animals are gone, they can't keep on filming animals make big bucks. They have fallen to reality TV shows. And in my opinion, they are positive! They show the reality of how things are changing because those are facts! The only problem is that people whom where raised that TV is only fictional has not grasped that it is becoming real.

This is inevitable and some SMART people can figure this out easy. No big deal, lets come up with a solution. But I would guess that 80% of the people are not capable to see the TRUTH! And that is something that is going to end humanity pretty soon.

I'm not saying this to scare people or anything, it is just that that is the path that we are headed. 20-30-60 more years, and the guys that experienced in the military would be the once that outlast the wedding cake maker. = enough is enough!

People don't want to hear this in the present  because THEY WOULD NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO! Majority wins over minority, where majority if mostly brain washed.= greed. The only “hope” is to change peoples' mentality and not get confused of what is happening around the world.

I personally have been watching TV for years. I have watch “actors” for years and see how they decline and even go crazy due the paparazzi, some are able to cope with it well (I'm sure it has to do a lot with genetics) some can't take it and go hay wire.

At the end of the day one should know, AS AN ADULT, what is fiction and non-fiction.

Kid:
-Santa exists.
-the little mermaid exists.
-spiderman exists (along with all of the rest like pokemon and stuff)
-they best days are playing with toys in general.

Adults:
-i need to pay bills....FUK the BS!
-i went to college/uni to be taught (from teachers) how to survive cause spiderman does not pay my bills.

I personally just see entertainment as a FAMILY function ONLY. That is why family has come to be the most important aspect in todays society!

I understand when watching a movie i'm just going to be entertained. As a producer, “if I leave them crying, I'll laugh when my pocket are full of money”.

In my opinion, this needs more REGULATING than what it has now. And just as I believe in EVOLUTION (mother nature) this will come to light eventually be it in an abrupt way or in a good way. But it will show since no one can stop the “moving forward of life” no one!

“ Studies suggest that the more reality TV people watch – and I would posit that it's all reality TV – the more difficult it becomes to distinguish between what is real and what is carefully crafted farce.”

I would estimate that 90% of the people have been fed sooo much BS that there is noooo turning back! And I'm serious! We are going down soon.

There is going to be an “implosion” of humans. Where vaccinations cannot catch up to cure the virus. Where the ozone layer will not have enough to to “cure” itself. Where there will be less than 10% of wold wide animals alive. They just going to be laughing all around. This is inevitable and cannot be stopped!

So me “debating” about things like “vaccines” is not a big deal! Vaccinations do not have an impact on how the world lives!

I think that it's just a matter of time pretty soon. The only hope is for millionaires to flu off in to outer space to find another suitable earth. But as to saving 80% of the population, nope.

We use to have 20 foot tall animals living in this earth!

The woolly mammoth was 15 feet tall at least! Why do you think that was? Because of how much ABUDANCE of food there was around! ONLY. As the food goes scares, the shorter the life expectancy as well as muscle mass.

This is 100% facts. Even if we where to clone a mammoth, it would NEVER live. Plain and simple.

The only thing that thrives right now is GREED! And that is the downhill of the economy!

Vaccinations nor QEGS will not change that. ONLY knowledge can and UNDERSTANDING!

Lets change our mentality?

Lets complain that we should get payed for watching commercials!

Lets fight that health care should be free.
Lets just keep on fighting!?

Don't get intimidated by these so called “experts” cause I bet they are not that smart just seeking answers too. = 100% truth!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 05, 2015, 09:12:07 AM
Quote
Incredibly, U.S. Presidential candidates from the democratic party are now openly suggesting that all parents across America should be arrested and charged with crimes if they do not submit to having their children injected with toxic chemicals like mercury, aluminum, MSG and formaldehyde (all of which are known neurotoxins, by the way)

You know what my first thought was, their brain is already dying....what I mean, they are to old to thing logistics! They are more afraid of dying than thinking logically. So I believe there should be an age limit where peoples opinions are NULL!

Don't we already know that OLD peoples' immune system is weaker than lets say a 40 year old one? These are facts! The same happens to the brain....so there needs to be a law where old farts just get FORCED in to retirement and just allow them to speak to a wall. Or watch reality TV shows!.

I'm kind of wondering what's the age limit of being in a Democratic “party'? Is there even a weight limit? Lol

Quote
For example, the White House and CDC both insist that doctors and nurses directly exposed to Ebola victims should not be quarantined.

Please tell me you are jocking or tell me that this will cause greater spread for greater MONEY BABY! Lol

It is really not voodoo sir but more of understanding how GREED works. It is the same as being a farmer. You needs seeds to plant your corn! SIMPLE!

This can ONLY go to ways!

1- we are ignorant!
2- lets spread it around to get people in our stores!

Plain and simple. I'm afraid it's the latter.

Quote
Medical kidnapping – When hospitals kidnap children for profit by naming a diagnosis that demands an expensive course of treatment. If the parents ask for a second medical opinion or refuse to go along with the recommended treatment, doctors call law enforcement and Child Protective Services to seize custody of the child and threaten the parents with arrest if they interfere. The increasing frequency of medical kidnappings in America has given rise to the website.

Sir we have the following:

-marijuana
-cocaine
-beer
-guns
-tobacco
-oil
-computers
-vaccines
-electricity..
Tell me on which of those have been used for the better of HUMANITY? = zero.

The only conclusion is CORRUPTION based ON GREED! And the only answer is A NEW JURASSIC PARK! A vaccination of all corruptness and allow the great minds to move forward.

I'm at the point right now that there is no solution! NONE! We are going down. When we start going up is when CORRUPTION DIES. But that is not no where near!

= GREED!

I have never seen a dinosaur pay dollars for anything!

Quote
Under the medical police state in America today, doctors have become intolerant medical enforcers who can call for parents to be arrested while their children are seized by state authorities. The mere invocation of “medical abuse” is all that’s necessary, even if it is entirely fabricated. Under a medical police state, parents are required to OBEY, not question.

I'm an honest guy and don't want to fight! I have always asked myself questions like = “what is the others persons intentions”?

I have asked this in my mind regarding my mom. Regarding my dad. Regarding my brother. Regarding my sister. Regarding my relatives in general. Then I ask myself, “why are their beliefs so different”...the conclusion is that they are mentally suffering! They are so confused all of the time that now they just want to have fun. They always just want to have fun!

Who cares how things work, who cares how my kids succeed, I just want to have fun!

And this is what throws a lot of people OFF BALANCE= “lets keep the them chasing a carrot”

That's why we have time and time again DOCTORS, ENGINEERS, PRESIDENTS< ETC ETC. fighting for the people rights! Because corruption is not NORMAL!

This world is so out of order when SMART PEOPLE ARE CALLING THE SHOTS< that it will just going to implode.

-trees will get depleted
-oxygen will get depleted
-land will get depleted
-knowledge will get depleted
-oil will get depleted
-gas will get depleted

The only people that live past this new 'extinction” are either lucky or smart, which history shows it does not care about luck! = no money!

I'm just sitting here and watching as how the millionaires/billionaires will destroy this earth. I'm just hoping I can buy a ticket but, nah. I don't want to follow their beliefs. I never even cheated on a girl. I feel bad for girls how they just get abused MENTALITY. also, it is sickening when they get confused by gay people! = which is the 'it' thing right now!

It has been a good run of education but sometimes you just have to admit the ending! Which is pretty soon!

Just watch! Or do something about it!

Eventually, things will break. I honestly hope the aliens take me as a mentor rather than a south park enthusiast! . lol.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 05, 2015, 01:24:15 PM
<vapid nonsense>
But what are you really trying to say? :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on February 05, 2015, 06:13:29 PM
Bad nooz for vapid shill...       

Measles Transmitted By The Vaccinated, Gov. Researchers Confirm

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/measles-transmitted-vaccinated-gov-researchers-confirm


Regards...




Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 05, 2015, 09:13:35 PM
Good one Cap.

And this too:

Are Vaccinations Destroying the Immune System? (http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/Headline/vaccines-children-immune-system/2015/02/05/id/622900/?ns_mail_uid=6604460&ns_mail_job=1606834_02052015&s=al&dkt_nbr=rgindhhu)

Joel,

You're standing up to the assault with dignity. (http://overunity.com/15147/vaccinations-recent-developments/msg436824/#msg436824)  Well done!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 05, 2015, 09:48:06 PM
Are Vaccinations Destroying the Immune System? (http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/Headline/vaccines-children-immune-system/2015/02/05/id/622900/?ns_mail_uid=6604460&ns_mail_job=1606834_02052015&s=al&dkt_nbr=rgindhhu)
Thanks for that truly excellent example of how what you post is almost entirely assertions with zero to poor references!  This particular article is pretty much a monologue with tidbits from some of the cognitively challenged - NVIC.  The assertions are:

i) more vaccines are given today than before and as a result autism rates are higher today
ii) more vaccines are given today than before and as a result more cases of shingles
iii) more vaccines are given today than before and as a result more cases of allergies

What is the objective support provided for these assertions?

i) Nothing.
ii) Nothing.
iii) Nothing.

Not to mention that it wouldn't take much to see that:

i) Autism diagnosis criteria and screening have changed significantly over the years.
ii) Shingles rates do not correlate with VSV vaccination.
iii) Neither to allergies and the fact that the doctor in question doesn't know that an allergy is the result of an hypersensitive immune system not a weak one should at least cast some doubt on the veracity of their opinion on allergies.

Again if there's any non-stupid points in the article I'd be happy to reconsider if someone could point them out...but we won't see that. :)
 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on February 05, 2015, 11:45:15 PM
Good one Cap.

And this too:

Are Vaccinations Destroying the Immune System? (http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/Headline/vaccines-children-immune-system/2015/02/05/id/622900/?ns_mail_uid=6604460&ns_mail_job=1606834_02052015&s=al&dkt_nbr=rgindhhu)

Joel,

You're standing up to the assault with dignity. (http://overunity.com/15147/vaccinations-recent-developments/msg436824/#msg436824)  Well done!


Thanks SM,

I'm afraid you will have to reply directly to my post, as it seems our resident paid shill and his significant other like to pretend they have me on ignore, so they don'tend up with egg on their faces...among other things.

Unless of course you and joel aren't done with them yet...which I can understand.

I'll leave that up to you all...but at least the readers see it, which is the main thing.

Regards...


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 06, 2015, 01:05:30 AM
CDC Whistle-blower given immunity to testify (https://jhaines6.wordpress.com/2015/02/04/breaking-cdc-vaccine-whistleblower-given-immunity-to-testify-william-thompson-free-to-describe-vaccine-autism-fraud-at-cdc-to-congress-vaccine-wars-heat-up-sold-out-media-lines-up-to-defend-vacci/)

Testifying is one thing;  the Congress actually
doing something helpful to The People is quite
another.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 06, 2015, 03:31:50 AM


We use to have 20 foot tall animals living in this earth!


We still do.  Ever heard of a giraffe?

Quote

Lets fight that health care should be free.


Sure...you sound like Obama.  So, you think Doctors should go to school for 20 years and spend $500,000 in tuition and then work for free?  Who the hell is going to do that?  Who can do that?

Nurses should work for free too and live on the streets then?  And the janitors that clean the hospitals should just ignore their family's needs and work for free?

Do you see how nonsensical this is?  Nothing is free!  Period. 

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 06, 2015, 05:13:38 AM
Quote
We still do.  Ever heard of a giraffe?

What I mean in general is that dinosaurs where thriving of the land because there was so much abundance that they where huge.

The blue wahle is HUGE in the ocean measuring at 100 feet for a mature because there is a lot of abundance in the sea to eat. If I'm not mistaken, it eats krill which is a type of shrimp.

At any rate, all of the big land animals that have survived for millions of years (their genetic code) use to be huge back in the days and this has been proven due to the fossils.

The polar bear is the biggest bear right now but in the past there was even a bigger bear that existed.

The crocodile can reach upwards of 20 feet right now, but fossils show there was a bigger one.

The elephant is the biggest land animal today but there was the mammoth topping at 15' tall. In the USA all average ceiling are 8' tall, now do the math.

Sharks use to be bigger....mostly all animals use to be bigger because there was an abundance of food. And that can be repeated again, if mother nature is left alone, the animals would grow and grow and grow till they reach a limit.

My main point is that the environments affect the animal too. The laws, regulations, etc. The mandatory regulations are some type of corruption = corruption corrupts absolutely.

There is this mentality that people give their whole faith on medicines that they don't see the corruption of them. I'm going out on a limb and say that some medicines may be using people as live rats outside the lab.

And then they don't teach us about fake medicine that is out there by the drug dealers. There is a lot of GRAY are in the world to just say, MANDATORY! Very easy.

Quote
Sure...you sound like Obama.  So, you think Doctors should go to school for 20 years and spend $500,000 in tuition and then work for free?  Who the hell is going to do that?  Who can do that?

I'm new to this but if I understand it correctly Canada has free health care. Their system may not be perfect....again I'm recently new to this so I don't understand the whole aspects of it, but it shows it can be done.

When people stop fighting and help each other we can make big differences including making health care free for everyone. Of course there should be EVALUATIONS as to not take advantage of that, but those should be very little.

I will tell you this that kind of relates to my point if you can see it. Reddit.com is a huge community on the Internet. They did one “game” where people would express their opinions to have the chance to become a millionaire. Meaning, one million people would donate one dollar each to the winner. And it worked.

At any rate sir, there are so many things to ARRAGE in the closet and make people understand that we are civilized people. We don't need alpha males anymore. We just need to have a peaceful non-greedy mind and things will be fine.

Personal question: Are you scared of dying from a virus? 

If you are, how will you prevent it?

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 06, 2015, 05:53:38 AM
What I mean in general is that dinosaurs where thriving of the land because there was so much abundance that they where huge.

The blue wahle is HUGE in the ocean measuring at 100 feet for a mature because there is a lot of abundance in the sea to eat. If I'm not mistaken, it eats krill which is a type of shrimp.

At any rate, all of the big land animals that have survived for millions of years (their genetic code) use to be huge back in the days and this has been proven due to the fossils.

The polar bear is the biggest bear right now but in the past there was even a bigger bear that existed.

The crocodile can reach upwards of 20 feet right now, but fossils show there was a bigger one.

The elephant is the biggest land animal today but there was the mammoth topping at 15' tall. In the USA all average ceiling are 8' tall, now do the math.

Sharks use to be bigger....mostly all animals use to be bigger because there was an abundance of food. And that can be repeated again, if mother nature is left alone, the animals would grow and grow and grow till they reach a limit.

My main point is that the environments affect the animal too. The laws, regulations, etc. The mandatory regulations are some type of corruption = corruption corrupts absolutely.

There is this mentality that people give their whole faith on medicines that they don't see the corruption of them. I'm going out on a limb and say that some medicines may be using people as live rats outside the lab.

And then they don't teach us about fake medicine that is out there by the drug dealers. There is a lot of GRAY are in the world to just say, MANDATORY! Very easy.

I'm new to this but if I understand it correctly Canada has free health care. Their system may not be perfect....again I'm recently new to this so I don't understand the whole aspects of it, but it shows it can be done.

When people stop fighting and help each other we can make big differences including making health care free for everyone. Of course there should be EVALUATIONS as to not take advantage of that, but those should be very little.

I will tell you this that kind of relates to my point if you can see it. Reddit.com is a huge community on the Internet. They did one “game” where people would express their opinions to have the chance to become a millionaire. Meaning, one million people would donate one dollar each to the winner. And it worked.

At any rate sir, there are so many things to ARRAGE in the closet and make people understand that we are civilized people. We don't need alpha males anymore. We just need to have a peaceful non-greedy mind and things will be fine.

Personal question: Are you scared of dying from a virus? 

If you are, how will you prevent it?

No, they don't.  That have socialized medicine.  It is not free.  Someone pays for it.  Their taxpayers pay for it.

Think for a minute Joel...you are always talking about keeping yourself healthy (which I agree with) and not doing things to expose you to viruses.  I agree.  What happens is this:  I work 2 jobs and pay my taxes.  I don't go to the Dr. because I can't afford it so I take very good care of myself.  I cost the taxpayers nothing.

Another guy, qualifies for "free" healthcare (free to him anyway, someone is paying for it) and he runs to the Dr. for every sniffle he gets, or a small cut, or whatever, and you and I don't do this yet we are paying those Dr's to see that guy who does not give a rat's ass what it costs as he is not paying.  My taxes are so high I can not afford healthcare yet this bozo is using yours and my tax dollars and does not care.  If my taxes were lowered, I could once again buy healthcare.  If it cost that guy something each time he ran to the dr's office, he might not go as often, and that would cost you and I less.

What if that guy started taking better care of himself as you and I do?  Then, our cost to take care of him would go even lower.

Anyway, this is my 2 cents on this issue.  Nothing is free.  People that do not have to pay for something abuse it.  The other folks that pay for those people are getting tired of doing so, especially when they take care of themselves and actually work every day.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on February 06, 2015, 06:20:40 AM
Socialized healthcare is the work of the devil.
The world would be a much better place if the uninsured would be kicked out of emergency rooms no matter what.
Emergency physicians should first check if a person is insured or can pay 100000$ upfront before they even look at them.

(just kidding, of course we pay for them)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 06, 2015, 06:54:50 AM
Quote
No, they don't.  They have socialized medicine.  It is not free.  Someone pays for it.  Their taxpayers pay for it.

Think for a minute Joel...you are always talking about keeping yourself healthy (which I agree with) and not doing things to expose you to viruses.  I agree.  What happens is this:  I work 2 jobs and pay my taxes.  I don't go to the Dr. because I can't afford it so I take very good care of myself.  I cost the taxpayers nothing.

Another guy, qualifies for "free" healthcare (free to him anyway, someone is paying for it) and he runs to the Dr. for every sniffle he gets, or a small cut, or whatever, and you and I don't do this yet we are paying those Dr's to see that guy who does not give a rat's ass what it costs as he is not paying.  My taxes are so high I can not afford healthcare yet this bozo is using yours and my tax dollars and does not care.  If my taxes were lowered, I could once again buy healthcare.  If it cost that guy something each time he ran to the dr's office, he might not go as often, and that would cost you and I less.

What if that guy started taking better care of himself as you and I do?  Then, our cost to take care of him would go even lower.

Anyway, this is my 2 cents on this issue.  Nothing is free.  People that do not have to pay for something abuse it.  The other folks that pay for those people are getting tired of doing so, especially when they take care of themselves and actually work every day.

Well I kind of agree with you here. But from having been fixing things since I was little, the realization of the ULTIMATE GOAL is that jobs are not that hard to have/keep. IOW, making money is not that hard ONCE you understand how everything works.

A mechanic can makes lots of money if they understand how everything works. Customers come to you and you fix their cars 100%. Based on what you know regarding how the car works and how the cars electronics work, you will always have money coming in if you do this. All jobs work this way. Be in the HVAC, engineer, architect, doctor, nurse, Realtor, actor, ALL of those jobs are not hard to do ONCE you are educated about them. The only people that struggle making money are those that FAIL to understand how easy it is to climb up the ladder.

I'm an expert in understanding how to make you job easier! It can always be easy and your responsibility is to SURPASS everyone. Meaning, KNOWLEDGE regarding medicine, automotive, rocket scientists, assembly line worker, ANY JOB will always become easier with EDUCATION/UNDERSTANDING.

The evil of it all is they can't climb up due to their FILTERS being taught by "big brother"! The evil of it all is that, I hate to say it because it labels me in the “conspiracy” when I'm really trying to help people. I don't want to take advantage of them. I don't want their money I just want them ALL to understand that everything is EASY!

If you can tell me where you work, I'm 100% guarantee that I can tell you how to make your life easier. No ifs or whats about it. And I can tell you how to protect your health too. And this acquired knowledge is from decades. I have worked in many jobs through out my life about 40-50 jobs all over. I have worked in construction for the top 5 companies...and in all of them I don't see them as hard in the mind. The only HARD thing is in the body and health. Which the less knowledgeable are being taken advantage because they are not taught other then just THAT THEY CAN BE REPLACED EASY!

Things are not hard to see, the HARDEST thing is to OPEN PEOPLES EYES!

WE have one side thinking that they are right. Then we have another side thinking they are right! The answer is in the middle. Getting to the middle TRUTH! Is very very hard to make corrupt minds understand.

What do you find hard about your job/s?

What do you find hard about climbing up the ladder?

All of this relates to vaccinations too, if I can explain myself clear, because if I was one of those people whom created vaccines, I would not find it hard to do. The only thing they do is to help the immune system and/or kill the virus at the door. Pretty simple, if you stay in your house and not get exposed to viruses, you will be fine till you are 100 yrs old. When you step out of the safety of your house, you have to deal with all of these people that are STUPID, stupid because they are being kept stupid not because they cannot learn....so this is where GREED comes in to play. Keeping people stupid is more profitable than making them smart = GREED.

If we get rid of greed, MAN all of these peoples understandings and knowledge will flourish and even find solutions.

-the drug dealers deal to make money.
-fake medicines deal to make money
-the fake iphone phones from china do it to make money
-the media confusing people what is real from what is fiction confuses people
-the not teaching how relationships ACTUALLY work makes 50% divorces.

Regarding from looking at everything from different angles, my conclusion is that everyone is confused regarding greed. Money is an addiction too. So in my opinion there are a lot of people whom have a corrupted mind.

But starting from the roots, having a job is really not that hard. If you can tell me where you work, I'm confidant I can make your job easier to the point that you just hire people to do the work for you = start a business. And if you teach them how to do their own businesses, they will help the economy more and will start changing your surroundings.

It's complicated to just speak about TRUTH in on essay, but I'm telling you it's not hard if we all support each other and allow our minds to be open minded.

With all my blabbering, let me show you proof! Tell me where do you work and what you struggle with and I will give you answers to make your life better?

What do you specialize in your two jobs?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 06, 2015, 05:30:57 PM
CDC Whistle-blower given immunity to testify (https://jhaines6.wordpress.com/2015/02/04/breaking-cdc-vaccine-whistleblower-given-immunity-to-testify-william-thompson-free-to-describe-vaccine-autism-fraud-at-cdc-to-congress-vaccine-wars-heat-up-sold-out-media-lines-up-to-defend-vacci/)
Again this is just the assertion of one person.  What's interesting is that if you google "thompson immunity testify" you get a bunch of B-list crank sites which have either admit to be referencing The Daily Caller or seem to be quoting it.  How far these sites are up each others asses is kind of amazing.

Otherwise this seems like non-news, misunderstood news or just wrong.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 07, 2015, 02:05:35 AM
Quote from: Sar-Keizen
...
Otherwise this seems like non-news, misunderstood news or just wrong.

And there-in lies the beauty of 'freedom' to the extent
we still are able to practice it.  Each is able to make his/her
own choice as their research and frame of mind will
dictate.

Whether this 'freedom' exists for only a short time longer
is debatable.  As the State  of Tyranny with its Iron Fist
grows in its powers, 1984 may soon become the new 'normal.'

Regarding 'forced vaccination' (http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/Health-News/vaccinations-forced-laws-measles/2015/02/06/id/623137/?ns_mail_uid=6604460&ns_mail_job=1607086_02062015&s=al&dkt_nbr=o1z7biov) this may come to
be sooner than we may think.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on February 07, 2015, 02:43:42 AM
And there-in lies the beauty of 'freedom' to the extent
we still are able to practice it.  Each is able to make his/her
own choice as their research and frame of mind will
dictate.

Whether this 'freedom' exists for only a short time longer
is debatable.  As the State  of Tyranny with its Iron Fist
grows in its powers, 1984 may soon become the new 'normal.'

Regarding 'forced vaccination' (http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/Health-News/vaccinations-forced-laws-measles/2015/02/06/id/623137/?ns_mail_uid=6604460&ns_mail_job=1607086_02062015&s=al&dkt_nbr=o1z7biov) this may come to
be sooner than we may think.
Just protect yourself with an injection of anti-toxin: 100cc's of ~78% N2 ~21% O2 ~1% Ar2.  There is a 0% incidence of autism reported from vaccinated individuals who injected a full dose of this powerful anti-toxin at least 1 hour prior to a scheduled MMR vaccination.  Serious side-effects of the anti-toxin may include:  Cerebral embolisms, loss of consciousness, and death. 

Do not take the anti-toxin if you are living and intend to continue living.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 07, 2015, 02:59:53 AM
Each is able to make his/her own choice as their research and frame of mind will dictate.
So you don't believe that propaganda takes some degree of choice away.  That's interesting.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 07, 2015, 03:09:35 AM
Fifty reasons not to vaccinate children. (http://www.zengardner.com/50-reasons-not-vaccinate-children/)


Sarke,
Propaganda has been with the World for a long,
long time.  Few are forced to believe it, many
on the other hand are deceived into believing it.

It is, for most, a personal thing.  Those who can
handle the Truth opt for Truth.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 07, 2015, 03:12:02 AM
many on the other hand are deceived into believing it.
In other words it, on average takes away choice.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 07, 2015, 03:35:20 AM
Chris Christie (Gov. NJ) who is against vaccinations, now has the flu.  (According to Yahoo News)  This could be serious for someone of his age AND extra weight.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 07, 2015, 06:22:47 AM
How great is the corruption within the Centers for
Disease Control (CDC)? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THGbJnpywyw)

You decide.

The Love of Money is a terrible thing.


Sarke,

Propaganda itself does not deprive anyone of
choices.  Rather, it is the Mind Control Programming
which accompanies the Propaganda which causes
certain vulnerable souls to put faith in what the
government controlled glitzy media talking heads
say as they read their script which does the dirty deed.

Or the cooked government controlled studies, publications,
periodicals and institutions themselves which are major
sources of the propaganda.

The Love of Money weakness captures many who
strive to present the 'image' of credibility.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 07, 2015, 06:40:36 AM
Propaganda itself does not deprive anyone of choices.   Rather, it is the Mind Control Programming..blah...blah...blah...blah
Yawn.  So Propaganda - that is feeding people information that is strongly biased toward a particular view point often in an environment devoid of a reasonable counter point and/or designed to leverage pre-existing prejudices and biases.

Has according to SeaMonkey logic absolutely no effect, whatsoever on peoples choices on average.  Interesting point of view.

Quote
Or the cooked government controlled studies
You could study for a decade and still have nothing to contribute to a discussion about how studies are run, what methodologies are used and why, how you can validate outcomes and check for biases.  So until you know even a microscopic amount about this field.  Your opinions add nothing to the discussion.  Sorry. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 07, 2015, 07:10:50 AM
Quote from: Sar-Kei-Zen
...
You could study for a decade and still have nothing to contribute to a discussion about how studies are run, what methodologies are used and why, how you can validate outcomes and check for biases.  So until you know even a microscopic amount about this field.  Your opinions add nothing to the discussion.  Sorry. :)

Your desperation has gone up several notches!
Could it be that your flawed script is responsible
for this extreme display of frustration? :o ???

Calm down Sar-K.  Losing the dialogue may be
very good for you. 8) ::) ;)

Obviously you did not watch the video. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THGbJnpywyw)

Shame on you. :'(
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 07, 2015, 07:19:27 AM
Your desperation has gone up several notches!
...and here I thought I was simply being honest.  Well I'm always open to correction.  Please elucidate.  Tell you what, why not tell me how you would construct a useful test that would clearly determine if vaccines are responsible for harm.  I'll be more than happy to change my mind if you can do this and explain why it works and what makes the results compelling.

If not, don't you think my previous assessment of your abilities concerning studies stands?

Let me know. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 07, 2015, 08:21:36 AM
Quote
http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/Health-News/vaccinations-forced-laws-measles/2015/02/06/id/623137/?ns_mail_uid=6604460&ns_mail_job=1607086_02062015&s=al&dkt_nbr=o1z7biov

The problem I see regarding forced vaccinations is that, that is just taking the EASY way out and disregarding the real issues.

For one -- no one knows if the new born is allergic to any of the vaccines. Just like when I was little I almost died from a honey bee sting because I didn't know I was allergic to them. For that simple reason, a MANDATORY injection is only due to disregarding that part = some will die due to vaccinations.

Second -- we have FAKE vaccines out there. A GREEDY doctor will open up a vaccination place and inject kids and kill a bunch of them before he gets caught, if even. More killing of kids.

Third – who knows what these vaccinations are doing to peoples' body 100%.

Every time I see a commercial regarding any medicine, the side effect can be as painful as the illness itself. I read the other day that he has survived cancer 2 times but through all that, he was suffering all of the time. He said that if he had to go through all that a 3rd time, he would not.

And that is a perfect example why instead of curing cancer, it is better to teach people how to avoid it in the first place. Last time I read about taco bells beef it was 30% meat and the rest was artificial stuff. This does not register in peoples mind because this is underground TRUTH but it's obvious that anything artificial in the body will make it the cells confused.

Here the truth regarding artificial meet = do it for profit.

The truth about artificail meat = will confuse the human body cells and WILL cause complications. But money talks and until proven others wise, lets sell it. = taking advantage of peoples TASTE buds with science baby! Lol how hard is that to see? Then we have a skinny guy that works out with high cholesterol and they go to the doctor to ask why.

Question to the doctors/nurses, are you allowed to tell patients not to eat fast foods?

Question to the doctors/nurses, are you 100% that fast foods are not bad for peoples health? if yes, how so?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 07, 2015, 08:39:25 AM
Quote from: Sar-Kei-Zen
...
Tell you what, why not tell me how you would construct a useful test that would clearly determine if vaccines are responsible for harm.  I'll be more than happy to change my mind if you can do this and explain why it works and what makes the results compelling.
...

The Science of conducting and evaluating
'studies' is old hat - the techniques have
long ago been developed and proven.

Unfortunately, what is lacking in today's
Money Driven Medical Establishment is the
desire to conduct Honest and Ethical Studies
whose results are then made openly
available to all in order that timely critique
may be achieved.

Why the secrecy?  Why the cooked results?
Where have all of the Good People gone?

Sar-K,  your arguments really do lack substance
and convey the impression that your task truly
is one of deception.

Look for a more competent Programmer.

Your 'mind' isn't available to you for any 'changing.'

Love of Money will do that...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 07, 2015, 09:30:18 AM
Quote
http://www.zengardner.com/50-reasons-not-vaccinate-children/

Holly atom our savior, that is a lot of research and a lot to digest!

Man that guy really did his research and I read the whole post word by word. WOW! I always read to everything because that's is what teaches us something. You know how tired I am of hearing people saying that that is “too boring”? Picture snooki reading through all that or any miss universe pageant!

Man there is sooooo much information here that I feel it's personal! There is no evidence that milehigh, pirate, sarkeizen, marke, etc can fight this.....

This is too STRONG and needs a lot and a lot of DETECTIVE WORK!

My LOGISTIC way of looking at things are:

1- vaccinations are a drug industry to make money.
2- if I go to work and stay in my house 90% in my house why do I have to get vaccinated by and STD.
3- humans have never figured out how the body works and now they are trying to cure it! = ignorance.

Just things that stood out to me from that article but, WOW! The guy that wrote that has some information regarding the truth!

“Children suffer from less that 2% of vaccine preventable illnesses but 98% of the vaccines are targeted towards them.”

Vaccinating infants is the most profitable business both for the manufacturers as well as the doctors.

“Autism in India has emerged as the most rapidly growing epidemic amongst children, more than the growth of infantile diabetes, AIDS and cancer combined.”

“Many children become fully autistic after the MMR shot, as reported by the parents and the doctors treating the children. Dr Wakefield found the vaccine strain measles virus in the blood, guts, tissue and the Cerebro-Spinal Fluid (CSF) of autistic children.”

“It is also known that it is the use of green monkey serum in vaccines that has led to the transfer of the Simian Immune deficiency Virus (SIV) from monkeys into humans. As per Dr Robert Gallo, the discoverer of the Human Immune deficiency Virus, the SIV and the HIV that causes AIDS are indistinguishable.”

“In the USA vaccine adverse effects are recorded and the Government offers compensation of millions of dollars to victims (the most recent case in its Vaccine Court may have received upto $200 million in damages). The courts in the USA have paid nearly $ 2 billion in damages so far.”

“In India the Government assures the population through massive advertising campaigns that vaccines are extremely safe. Parents refusing to vaccinate are threatened by the administration.”

“Through a new Public Health Bill that is being drafted the Government of India is planning to introduce forced vaccinations and threaten anti-vaccination activists with steep fines and jail terms”
All of those statements make sense. We can go DEEPER to see the truth with people can even handle that.

There is so much info in here that makes sarkeizen look like pennies in ones pocket!

I seriously can't wait how sarkeizen will dissect that post piece by piece tomorrow. Sarkeizen is a smart medical professional. He should be able to understand the truth and spread it around like vaccines in the brain. Dissect away sark...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 07, 2015, 11:05:34 AM
Quote
...AND extra weight

Well why do you need to jobs and he needs only one?

You can't insult that easy when you can be destroyed easy sir. WHO told you that making fun of people is living?

Let me guess a confused mind!

After analyzing you, you are just an undedicated person trying to work two jobs to pay the bills.

That gets tiring after a while.

If you work one job FULL time (40 hrs a week) flus a part time one, still that's a lot of hours.

My problem is that IF YOU ARE SO SMART< WHY DO YOU WORK TWO JOBS?

And I'm sitting here thinking, wow!, this guy is not really smart at all! With all due respect, most people that work TWO JOBS have not figured out the mathematics of work let alone how VACCINES WORK>.

What I really see is IGNORANCE in your part sir.

How many people work two jobs to support their family?

And then tell me why they do that?

You have shown your true colors sir that you are a dumbo!

I mean at your age, do you expect to retire on Medicare?

You are living this long with out being bombarded by VACCINATIONS! Why all of a sudden you are PRO vaccinations?

Hmmm let me guess, YOU ARE TRYING TO BLAME OTHER FOR YOUR SHORT COMINGS = let me blame people whom do not get vaccinated while I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE “SIDE EFFECTS”  myself cus my “side effects” means I am tired of working...

Or lets see here, why don't I take my OWN PERSONAL OPINIONS ASIDE and think about REALITY! lol Truth will set you free. DUDE my secretary gets paid $20 dollars and hour and most of the time she is talking to her boyfriend behind her desk! She will not get fired because she is there to take important calls from millionaires/billionaires.

In the USA, 20 x 40 = $800 a week, $3,200 a month, 38,400 a year. The times real where a good architect can make 100,000 a year. which in rounding up numbers, it comes to $50 an hour!  50x40 = 2000 a week x four weeks 8,000 a month times a year 96,000 which rounded up is 100,000 a year. and this is an architect, now imagine how much a DOCTOR MAKES>. = ?

They may be "on call" but their pay check is wayyy better than a maintenance guy that is also "on call" when an AC breaks down.

I'm sitting here not really finding doctors as that intelligent because they still call people to fix their car engines and remodel their houses = IGNORANCE>

How can a doctor operate on a person and not understand hot an HVAC SYSTEM WORKS?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 07, 2015, 03:49:51 PM
The Science of conducting and evaluating 'studies' is old hat - the techniques have long ago been developed and proven.
So why wasn't my assessment that you have nothing to say on the subject true?  By virtue of have zero idea on how to construct a study - why would you think you know anything at all about how to judge if someone has handled data improperly.  Let me know when you can answer that one. :)
Quote
Why the secrecy?
There isn't any.  Today with eJournals a lot of studies include extended data if not raw data and if they don't you usually just request it from the author. That's how Hooker did his reanalysis of Thompson's study.  By the sound of it he didn't even request the data from Thompson, as he was only one of the authors on that study.  If you ask, most researchers will gladly hand it over.  Other studies are based on public datasets like the China–Cornell–Oxford Project.  Which are available on the internet.   If you can't find the data you're looking for then just ask the research groups PR dept and you'll get it.
Quote
Why the cooked results?
As someone who has done forensic work of this nature I always find how the public's ideas about how to bias a study is so far from how it happens.  I can pick out a study that's been set up to a particular parties advantage without much trouble.  As well as one that has been constructed by an idiot like yourself.  Watching you is sort of like a IT person watching a movie about hackers.

Take a rather public example T. Collin Campbell who wrote the seminal scare-people-into-vegetarianism book "The China Study".  He has been pressed - for a number of years to defend how he came up with the results in his exceptionally stupid book.  The likely answer is: He just made them up.  It took nine years before someone brought this up.  Why did it take so long?  Because it's a popular science book, there is no peer review and no governing body.  You just publish it.  It was trivial to find the problem once someone looked.  That's how easy it is to find "cooking".  Pharmaceutical studies - at least those that need to pass FDA have a lot of people looking at them.  In fact if you look at studies that support products that don't have to pass FDA - homeopathy, acupuncture (there are some regulations around this) other herbal remedies.  What do you find?  Well the quality of the study drops hugely.  Which does much to ruin your ideas that everything which supports vaccines is somehow biased.
Quote
your arguments really do lack substance
Nope, they are clear and straightforward.  Either you believe that propaganda as I've defined it does influence peoples choices or it doesn't.  You seem to claim that it doesn't.  Which is pretty interesting.   :)
Quote
and convey the impression that your task truly is one of deception.
I doubt any rational person believes that.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on February 07, 2015, 05:40:37 PM
I doubt any rational person believes that.


Now how in the hell would a paid traitor to the human race possibly have any idea what " any rational person believes" ?

Astounding psychopathy

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 07, 2015, 05:46:47 PM
Holly atom our savior, that is a lot of research
Research actually requires more than just assertions.  That could be entitled 50 stupid things anti-vaccine people say and you wouldn't have to change a word.

Again, the usual offer is open.  If there is one or two things in that article which you consider strong evidence of harm or lack of efficacy.  Then please point out the specific point and I'll address it.  Be prepared to answer WHY you think it's strong evidence though.

This is something most of you won't do.  Perhaps because none of you know how weighing evidence is a science - which is why you have to ridiculous beliefs that you do. 

Oh and Joel - you haven't responded to my intellectual challenge.  Why is that?  Scared?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 07, 2015, 07:40:52 PM
What's really behind the measles vaccination hysteria? (http://henrymakow.com/2015/02/measles-vaccine-hysteria.html)

Love of Money is an open doorway to corruption.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 07, 2015, 08:00:55 PM
Eight invented 'diseases' Big Pharma is banking on. (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/02/here-are-8-invented-diseases-big-pharma-is-banking-on/)

MMR vaccine may cause cancer and mutate DNA. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RMwcuVpYqbA)

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 07, 2015, 09:03:14 PM
Eight invented 'diseases' Big Pharma is banking on. (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/02/here-are-8-invented-diseases-big-pharma-is-banking-on/)

MMR vaccine may cause cancer and mutate DNA. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RMwcuVpYqbA)
Again, can you point to strong evidence anywhere here?  Please do.  Say: "This here is very strong evidence of X".  Because your lack of doing that is kind of strong evidence that you're just interested in creating mindless drones. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 08, 2015, 05:01:23 AM
Those who wish to become much better informed
regarding vaccines, their effects, their ingredients
and more will find many links here. (http://experimentalvaccines.org/)

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 08, 2015, 05:04:34 AM
Quote
Research actually requires more than just assertions.  That could be entitled 50 stupid things anti-vaccine people say and you wouldn't have to change a word.

First of all I'm not an anti-vaccine person. I'm not anti-anything. I'm just pro-truth.

The truth about vaccinations are manly just due to making money MOSTLY. I mean think about it for a minute. Someone got the measles virus and now all of the pro-vaccine are FREAKING out. They don't want to get their kids sick and this is how the government takes the opportunity to NEFORCE their AGENDA. Which they say it should be mandatory! Correct! “too protect the people”. Which it shows time after time that don't don't want to protect the people, they just want to make money.

Ok. so you believe that everyone should be vaccinated. Great no problem. But it does not make sense and it's pretty obvious.

1- The measles virus is very very rare. NOT because the vaccine is helping the immune system to help it fighting but BECAUSE IS JUST NOT HERE ANYMORE. Period.

2- There are wayyy worse more viruses to worry about that the measles. And not just viruses. I already mentioned that the mosquito is the deadliest animal in the USA. In another place I will assume that the mosquito is deadly too but in a location where there are hippos, I'm sure the hippo kills a lot of people more than the flu virus. The same can be said where the deadliest snake lives. There will be more deaths regarding the snake than that person being killed by an automobile hitting a deer that is crossing the road.

So vaccinations are being pushed right now because everyone is getting scared of the measles WTF? The only RATIONAL MANDATORY should be to the families/relatives of the person that has the virus NOT WORLD WIDE. That is stupid.

Quote
Again, the usual offer is open.  If there is one or two things in that article which you consider strong evidence of harm or lack of efficacy.  Then please point out the specific point and I'll address it.  Be prepared to answer WHY you think it's strong evidence though.

Well, in all honesty, there are a lot but lets discuss this article.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/measles-vaccines-kill-more-people-than-measles-cdc-data-proves/5429736

Give me your OPINIONS or facts as to that not being true?

Quote
This is something most of you won't do.  Perhaps because none of you know how weighing evidence is a science - which is why you have to ridiculous beliefs that you do.

Is not like what you know I can't understand lol. I know a lot of things you don't know. e.g. how to repair an HVAC system? That does not mean that you CAN”T learn it. It just takes time. SO what you know right now does not mean that i'm STUPID lol, it just means that I just HAVE NOT LEARNED IT YET!  ;D

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 08, 2015, 06:15:30 AM
First of all I'm not an anti-vaccine person. I'm not anti-anything.
I didn't say you were.  I just said that article could be entitled "50 stupid things anti-vaccine people say" and be no less accurately titled.
Quote
I'm just pro-truth.
Not in any useful sense of the term.  You are pro-joels-particularly-ignorant-beliefs.
Quote
Someone got the measles virus and now all of the pro-vaccine are FREAKING out.
102 people actually.  In about 30 days in the US.  That's more that we would usually get all year when 90% of the population was vaccinated.
Quote
1- The measles virus is very very rare. NOT because the vaccine is helping the immune system to help it fighting but BECAUSE IS JUST NOT HERE ANYMORE. Period.
That is one of the most exceptionally stupid things you've said...and you've raised the bar pretty high there at times.
Joel the moron says: "The measels is not here" - prior to 2004 that would be more correct the US got approximately 100 cases per year.  Since then the size of outbreaks has been rising.  Last year we had over 600 cases and the year before that we had 200.
Joel the moron says: "Not because of vaccines" - actually yeah if you look at the years where vaccination was highest you see the lowest incidence of measles.  Once we get lower than 90% coverage outbreaks start happening.  Lower still and we get more and more cases.  The vast majority of the outbreaks have been traced to people who were unvaccinated.
Quote
2- There are wayyy worse more viruses to worry about that the measles.
Number of deaths due to Ebola is around 9000 right now.  In 1920 with no vaccination the measles claimed 7700 lives. If ebola is a concern then measles is one too. 
Quote
The only RATIONAL MANDATORY should be to the families/relatives of the person that has the virus NOT WORLD WIDE. That is stupid.
Currently it is not mandatory and what, if anything gets suggested will probably be the removal of school exemptions.  Once that gets through congress it will probably be the removal of a few avenues of exemption.  So I wouldn't worry.  However one should ask how many completely unnecessary childrens funerals do you want to arrange before we start considering this.  Is 100 good?  or would you prefer 200 child corpses? 
Quote
Well, in all honesty, there are a lot but lets discuss this article.
Then go an find a part that is REALLY STRONG evidence and quote it in your post.  I notice that you didn't do that. :)
Quote
Give me your OPINIONS or facts as to that not being true?
Please provide a piece of strong evidence from your article.
Quote
Is not like what you know I can't understand
Actually it seems exactly like that.  You've been weaseling out of my game challenge for a few posts now. 
Quote
what you know right now does not mean that i'm STUPID
No what makes you stupid is a bit more complicated. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 08, 2015, 06:16:55 AM
Those who wish to become much better informed
regarding vaccines, their effects, their ingredients
and more will find many links here. (http://experimentalvaccines.org/)
Again, it's mostly just assertion.  Do you have anything that is more useful?  I think the answer is "no". :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 08, 2015, 06:58:24 AM
Worried about possibly contracting a cold or the
flu?  A simple solution.  Very inexpensive and very
effective. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOiGk7GdCS8)

More here. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0t1K_-YA30)

How the Love of Money has corrupted the Cancer
Treatment Industry.  Why Chemo-Therapy is a
waste of money. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdLyMhNdcSc)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on February 08, 2015, 07:05:58 AM

The simple cure for AIDS (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/correspondent/2311067.stm) TPTB want to hide from the public.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 08, 2015, 07:20:24 AM
A simple solution.  Very inexpensive and very effective.
Oh? How do you know this is "very effective"?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 08, 2015, 07:49:55 AM
Quote
I didn't say you were.  I just said that article could be entitled "50 stupid things anti-vaccine people say" and be no less accurately titled.

Yes you did by implying it. I'm not anti-vaccinations.

To be honest, there are A LOT of things to do some detective work on that article. The writer seems to be from India. Since most what is referenced to India. BUT, that does not sound like a looney person. That sounds like a person whom has done his/her research and is trying to speak out.

We could even find the person whom wrote that article and interview him/her and showing all of the evidence which him/her was motivated to post that article. I'm sure it has to do based on own personal beliefs back up with facts that they lost a closed person due to vaccination. 

In the psychology of people, if I tell you wash my clothes if I pay you $3000 dollars you would most likely do. Your mom/wife/GF would for free (or should lol). Not complicated!

Do you read a book by just reading the tittle?

Quote
Not in any useful sense of the term.  You are pro-joels-particularly-ignorant-beliefs.

why do you feel the need to speak for myself!? I just want to find truth. Be it in politics, Hollywood, relationships, economy, happiness..etc. I'm always pro-truth. The things that help you to get to a goal are the things that make you succeed plain and simple. Just because you are pro-vaccines does not mean that you are doing any better in other areas!

How are you doing with da ladies? Lol

Are you a butt man or a breast man? Lol

Quote
102 people actually.  In about 30 days in the US.  That's more that we would usually get all year when 90% of the population was vaccinated.

Millions of people get the flu yearly. And guess what, look at the driving of humanity! Are you scared that from the measles spreading all of a sudden humanity will go extinct? Lol it takes more that FEAR MONGERING to do that!

How many people get the flu virus in a year?

Let me sheee, how many people get the measles virus every year?

Obviously millions of people get the flu virus while you are scared that 102 just got it in 30 days. WOW, THE SKY IS FALLING! Lets MANDATORY vaccinations so we can stop an APOCALYPSE! Lol

Quote
That is one of the most exceptionally stupid things you've said...and you've raised the bar pretty high there at times.
Joel the moron says: "The measels is not here" - prior to 2004 that would be more correct the US got approximately 100 cases per year.  Since then the size of outbreaks has been rising.  Last year we had over 600 cases and the year before that we had 200.
Joel the moron says: "Not because of vaccines" - actually yeah if you look at the years where vaccination was highest you see the lowest incidence of measles.  Once we get lower than 90% coverage outbreaks start happening.  Lower still and we get more and more cases.  The vast majority of the outbreaks have been traced to people who were unvaccinated.

bla bla bla...I know for a FACT 100% sure 100% guaranteed that no virus would EVER make the human population go extinct! NEVER!

You need to be more scared about CORRUPTION than a measles virus out break. Lets take a look what causes cancer?

Personally i'm more scared of dying from cancers than a measles virus. I'm more scared of being killed while driving on the freeway during a rainy day than from a virus!

I'm in my 30's and have never been afraid of measles in all that time. I've never heard of anyone dying from it.

I've heard of people dying from driving while texting.

I've heard of people dying from electrocution by accident.

I've heard of people dying from shaving with a oxidized blade razor.

I've heard of people dying from alcohol poisoning.

I've heard of people dying from STD's..

I've heard of people dying from OBESITY.

ETC.

Never heard of a person dying from measles, have you?

Quote
Number of deaths due to Ebola is around 9000 right now.  In 1920 with no vaccination the measles claimed 7700 lives. If ebola is a concern then measles is one too. 

Drinking excessively is at 88,000 deaths. That seems pretty low death rate compared to other. When how do you cure alcoholism or drug addiction? Since they cause more deaths than the virus measles.

Quote
Currently it is not mandatory and what, if anything gets suggested will probably be the removal of school exemptions.  Once that gets through congress it will probably be the removal of a few avenues of exemption.  So I wouldn't worry.  However one should ask how many completely unnecessary childrens funerals do you want to arrange before we start considering this.  Is 100 good?  or would you prefer 200 child corpses? 

Sir there is nothing to worry about a measles outbreak. Take a deep breath and just breathe. You are not vulnerable. I'm not vulnerable. Most people are already immune to it even with out having to take the shot. This is why “evolution” is so beautiful. At one time, yes it would have been very deadly but right now, NO! This is what virus do. Find weak links in the immune system to try to take advantage of. Today, I'm pretty sure the immune body itself already learned it HENCE = no need to worry about the virus.

WHAT WE NEED TO WORRY ABOUT ARE THE NEW MUTATED VIRUS STRAINS. Remember, viruses purpose are to mutate to evade the human immune system!

Quote
Then go an find a part that is REALLY STRONG evidence and quote it in your post.  I notice that you didn't do that.

lol you only answer to quotes lol. This is what you say when I asked you to disect that article and do a complete study on how it is 100% wrong. :)

Quote
Please provide a piece of strong evidence from your article.

Please read the article and point out what is 100% wrong! Lol

Quote
Actually it seems exactly like that.  You've been weaseling out of my game challenge for a few posts now. 

lol your 19x19 (18x18) check board game. ok.

Quote
No what makes you stupid is a bit more complicated.

I don't find your stupidity that complicated at all. :P

1- what's your goal? We understand that human beings like to be praised = good job budy!

2- we understand that humans want to win something to feel important. Well here's a medal for you sir.

3- we understand that ignorance kills more people than knowledge. In fact, knowledge is what creates computers, bridges, skyscrapers, engines, light bulbs, etc etc...

If I'm even intelligent enough to understand vaccinations, you are very stupid to understand the rest of life.

For example. Do you really know how a dishwasher works? And fixing a dishwasher is very simplistic!

Fixing an air conditioning unit is too. Tell me how it works!

Everything relates to one another and you can't see the truth on that OH MY. I'M so stupid and you are smarter than me.

Honestly sarkeizen, where do you work and what do you do? Show your brain potential?  ;D
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 08, 2015, 07:58:51 AM
Quote from: Sar-kei-Zen
Oh? How do you know this is "very effective"?

Thought you'd never ask Sar-Ke. :o

Try it yourself and you'll see.  Painless.  Very inexpensive.
Almost miraculous. :) ;D

Then, fill us all in on why you think it really does work! ::) 8) :-*
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on February 08, 2015, 08:03:10 AM
Many emoticons, no substance. Perfect conspiratard material.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 08, 2015, 08:17:30 AM
Joel:

You left out deaths from driving in the US which is still around 50,000/year.  No one is banning cars ....yet.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 08, 2015, 08:43:30 AM
Quote
You left out deaths from driving in the US which is still around 50,000/year.  No one is banning cars ....yet.

I don't know what you mean by that but lets compare it to the measles virus. Lol

I know for a fact that during a rainy day, the car crashes go through the roof. People's “judgment” of distance gets thrown out of whack. I'm more scared driving when it rains that a flu virus.

Even when it does not rain, man there are a lot of undedicated drivers. Honest to “god”, my mom was trying to get out of her driveway and a cop hit her. Then the cop was trying to blame my mom for the “crash”...what did that tell me, COP corruption, instead of manning up, he tried to blame my mom for him hitting her. True story with records on paper.

I'm sure someone just crashed their car right now and will not get reported. = automobiles are more deadlier than the mere measles virus.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on February 08, 2015, 08:46:02 AM
A car on the roadway has the right of way.  A car entering the roadway does not have the right of way.  Ergo, your mother entering the road way violated the cop's right of way, and barring the cop having been doing something like driving recklessly, your mother will be found liable.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 08, 2015, 09:09:56 AM
Quote
A car on the roadway has the right of way.  A car entering the roadway does not have the right of way.  Ergo, your mother entering the road way violated the cop's right of way, and barring the cop having been doing something like driving recklessly, your mother will be found liable.

she was going in reverse from the driveway and the cop drove in her house driveway to try to stop a person. He did not payed attention that she was backing up.

But this is old news, the cop was found negligent so no point to stand up for him right now. She did not get a ticket and the cop was responsible for the damages. Cased closed!

Even the law today where I live is that if someone hits you from behind, they are liable for it!

Corrupt people that try to take advantage of that use this. = insurance fraud!

There are frauds where people get in front of a car that may seem the driver has money, so they get in front of them and hit the brakes on purpose so they get hit by the driver. Then they collect insurance. Yara yara, we are talking about vaccinations here sir. Lol if you can't see past that, then what else is there to do?


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 08, 2015, 10:05:11 AM
I don't know what you mean by that but lets compare it to the measles virus. Lol

I know for a fact that during a rainy day, the car crashes go through the roof. People's “judgment” of distance gets thrown out of whack. I'm more scared driving when it rains that a flu virus.

Even when it does not rain, man there are a lot of undedicated drivers. Honest to “god”, my mom was trying to get out of her driveway and a cop hit her. Then the cop was trying to blame my mom for the “crash”...what did that tell me, COP corruption, instead of manning up, he tried to blame my mom for him hitting her. True story with records on paper.

I'm sure someone just crashed their car right now and will not get reported. = automobiles are more deadlier than the mere measles virus.

What I meant was what I said.  Our society sometimes overreacts to seemingly low dangers with alarm while accepting other real dangers as a matter of course.  This shows a lack of understanding of statistics.  2 people choke to death while eating a hotdog....now they want to ban hotdogs as they are dangerous.  50,000 folks die every year while driving and no one says anything about that.

That was my point.

A major plane crash takes place and kills 300 people.  Terrible to be sure.  But, thousands of folks then decide to drive instead of fly and they are killed as it is statistically much more dangerous to drive than to fly commercially.  They thought they were being safer when in fact, they were in much more danger.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 08, 2015, 10:32:57 AM
Quote
What I meant was what I said.  Our society sometimes overreacts to seemingly low dangers with alarm while accepting other real dangers as a matter of course.  This shows a lack of understanding of statistics.  2 people choke to death while eating a hotdog....now they want to ban hotdogs as they are dangerous.  50,000 folks die every year while driving and no one says anything about that.

That was my point.

A major plane crash takes place and kills 300 people.  Terrible to be sure.  But, thousands of folks then decide to drive instead of fly and they are killed as it is statistically much more dangerous to drive than to fly commercially.  They thought they were being safer when in fact, they were in much more danger.

Let me ask you this, are you 100% pro-vaccinations with no questions asked?

To me you seem to understand clearly reality.

You are not that afraid to die from measles than you are from driving a car?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 08, 2015, 10:43:55 AM
Let me ask you this, are you 100% pro-vaccinations with no questions asked?

To me you seem to understand clearly reality.

You are not that afraid to die from measles than you are from driving a car?

I said from the beginning of my posting here that it should be up to the individual to evaluate their risks and make their own intelligent decisions about vaccinnes.
We do this every day on involving other risks so...that is my stance.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 08, 2015, 09:43:29 PM
Quote from: orbut 3000
Many emoticons, no substance. Perfect conspiratard material.

The 'substance' is in the procedure itself.

Once you try it and realize its effectiveness
then you may proclaim 'perfect home-remedy material!'

If you have the courage, that is...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 08, 2015, 11:05:10 PM
Make sure you have the True facts... (http://www.zengardner.com/vaccines-false-gods/)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 08, 2015, 11:30:57 PM
Make sure you have the True facts... (http://www.zengardner.com/vaccines-false-gods/)

You know...I really have to question your sources.  Do you really find this site credible?  I thought you were looking for the truth?

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 09, 2015, 02:25:56 AM
Yes you did by implying it. I'm not anti-vaccinations.
Implication requires intent.  You have no objective reason to believe that I intended to implicate you.  Hence "imply" is the wrong word.
Quote
I'm sure it has to do based on own personal beliefs back up with facts that they lost a closed person due to vaccination.
What you are "sure"of" is irrelevant.  What matters is if the article is correct.  It has provided virtually nothing useful on that front.
Quote
why do you feel the need to speak for myself!?
I'm characterizing you not speaking for you.
Quote
I just want to find truth.
Probably not.  Again you seem far, far, far, far, far more like you are just trying to justify your existing ignorant beliefs. 
Quote
Millions of people get the flu yearly.
We are comparing the flu and measles. The flu propagates at about 1.6 cases per case in the winter and 1.2 (which is just barely self-sustaining) cases per case in the summer.  Measles propagates at about 18 cases per case all year round.  So it's easy to see how measles will outpace the flu.  The death rate of measles is about 5 times that of the flu.  So it's easy to see
Quote
Are you scared that from the measles spreading all of a sudden humanity will go extinct?
No I don't want people - especially infants, toddlers and the IC who don't have a choice in getting vaccinated to die completely unnecessarily.   You do apparently?
Quote
I know for a FACT 100% sure 100% guaranteed
Again this is why you will always be unable to do what I do. :)
Quote
Personally i'm more scared of dying from cancers than a measles virus.
What you are scared of and what is a reasonable course of action is not the same thing. :)
Quote
Never heard of a person dying from measles, have you?
Yep.
Quote
Today, I'm pretty sure the immune body itself already learned it HENCE = no need to worry about the virus.
Which is of course wrong.  Which is why cases are increasing at an inverse rate to vaccination. :)  Why countries with high vaccination rates have very few cases and countries who lag behind like Paupa New Guinea have high rates (5,000/year) and even in those countries there's an inversely proportional rate of infection with PNG having 18,000 cases prior to reasonable levels of vaccination.
Quote
This is what you say when I asked you to disect that article and do a complete study on how it is 100% wrong. :
Because I'd like to see if you can differentiate between strong and weak evidence. :)  Which you can't. 
Quote
Please read the article and point out what is 100% wrong!
So your article contains no strong evidence?  Then why should I bother? :) If it does, please point it out.  That really isn't so hard now is it? But you will probably refuse which shows me that either you have no idea what amounts to good evidence and/or you haven't read the article.   
Quote
19x19 (18x18) check board game. ok.
Then do what was asked in the original challenge.  Go create a kiseido account.  Post the name here.  I'll do the same.  Then come up with some dates/times when you are free to play and I'll pick one.  Then we can play.
Quote
I don't find your stupidity that complicated at all. :P
The difference between me calling you stupid and you calling me stupid.  Is that it's easy to point out clear places where you are stupid ("viruses eat other viruses") ("viruses have immune systems") ("viruses have wills and purposes and schemes and plans"). 
Quote
Everything relates to one another and you can't see the truth on that OH MY.
Yawn.  See when someone says "everything is connected" it's sort of like "pretend knowledge".  It's the kind of thing pseudo-philosophers say.  It's really just a game of redefining the term "connected".
Quote
I'M so stupid and you are smarter than me.
Yes. :)  If you think that "everything is connected" is useful information.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 09, 2015, 02:28:58 AM
Thought you'd never ask Sar-Ke. :o
Well you've been pushing that button for a few posts now.
Quote
Try it yourself and you'll see.  Painless.  Very inexpensive.
No thanks.  Only mindless drones try every thing someone says works.  What's the point in having a mind if you treat all hypotheses as equally likely.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 09, 2015, 02:50:56 AM
Quote from: Pirate88179
You know...I really have to question your sources.  Do you really find this site credible?  I thought you were looking for the truth?

It would be very convenient if Truth was available to
all seekers at just one web site.  Unfortunately, it isn't
and quite a bit of digging is essential to locate the full
extent of Truth.

One article at one site is almost never the complete story
on any issue, but the article may inspire additional searching
through other links to add to the completeness of the quest.

Luckily for those of us who have access to the internet the
search for Truth is far easier today than ever before.  It goes
without saying that Discernment is always a necessity to
sift through information as dis-info is identified and weeded
out.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 09, 2015, 03:03:56 AM
But, if you go to a website titled: "Why the NWO is killing us with vaccines.com"  Do you really think you get the truth?  Or some slanted posts by folks with an agenda of their own?

I never trusted the main stream media and now with Brian Williams caught in more than a few lies, this point is driven home that they have an agenda.  Dan Rather was finally caught too a few years back.  So, if you cited ABC or NBC, etc.  I would not find those sources credible either.

I am just asking.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 09, 2015, 06:23:19 AM
Vaccines Destroyed Family (http://www.zengardner.com/vaccines-destroyed-family/)

Quote from: Pirate88179
...
But, if you go to a website titled: "Why the NWO is killing us with vaccines.com"  Do you really think you get the truth?  Or some slanted posts by folks with an agenda of their own?

Whether or not Truth is available there would require
some investigation and research.  From my point of
view, such a web page title seems quite reasonable
and inviting.  But then I've had considerable experience
within the political establishment which pushes the NWO
AGENDA and therefore am able to parse the propaganda
and its 'programming' dialectic.  Others may not be so
eager to investigate such a site for fear of being thought
a 'conspiracy theorist.'  Such appellations do not bother me
in the least since I've seen the conspiracy at work from the
inside.

Caution is always advisable when perusing the alternative
media since there is indeed an agenda of mis-info and
dis-info at work in the environment.  With a bit of practice
though such deceptive web sites can be easily seen for what
they really are.  The seed of Truth grows and develops a solid
sense of discernment.  Most deceivers use a style of language
which is a dead give-away.

Brian Williams has shown us that he's as vulnerable as many
others who resort to 'experience enhancements' (fictional)
to embellish their resumes.  Sure, we don't expect such dishonesty
from a top billed and paid 'talking head' but it just goes to show
everyone that the Love of Money and the Love of Self can be a
problem for even those in the limelight.  Ego and Power are big
deals for the psychopaths who obsess about rising to the top.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 09, 2015, 02:13:35 PM
Whether or not Truth is available there would require some investigation and research.  From my point of view, such a web page title seems quite reasonable and inviting.
Well this at least confirms what I mentioned earlier.  SeaMonkey performs no critical analysis on what she posts.  What we're seeing instead of "food for thought" is sort of a vaccum which scoops up all the dross at the bottom and posts it here. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 09, 2015, 07:10:21 PM
Quote from: Sar-Kei-Zen
Well this at least confirms what I mentioned earlier.  SeaMonkey performs no critical analysis on what she posts.  What we're seeing instead of "food for thought" is sort of a vacuum which scoops up all the dross at the bottom and posts it here. :)

Your comments are always interestingly
revealing Sar-Ke.  But, with a bit more
finesse and a little less emotion your
task of obfuscation would be less obvious. ;D :o ::)

You're way too easy! ;) ;D
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 09, 2015, 07:29:43 PM
Your comments are always
Clear and straightforward?  Seems like that's my intent. 

Early on you (and others) were asked repeatedly how much time you spend attempting to falsify the things before you post them.  I assert that the amount of time you spend is probably pretty close to zero.  You confirmed that I'm right.
Quote
You're way too easy!
Why all the dime-store mystic speak?  Why not just say your point is to uncritically spew things that are far more likely to be wrong than right?

Of course I'm trying to make what I claim "easy" to understand.  That's the point of communication. That ones message arrives at the other side intact.  My posts are completely plain and straightforward and I'm always open to questions.  You can't claim the same.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 09, 2015, 08:48:06 PM
Ron Paul on the Vaccine Controversy. (http://www.thedailybell.com/editorials/36068/Ron-Paul-Vaccine-Controversy-Shows-Why-We-Need-Markets-Not-Mandates/?uuid=6F808B25-5056-9627-3C1C0B7DA4C0C1D3)

Sar-Ke,

The only 'claim' that I make is that all are free
to decide for themselves in accordance with
their beliefs.  I do not support any loss of this
freedom.  Mandating behaviors and forcing
compliance to any agenda which causes bodily
harm is Un-American.

As many are gradually beginning to realize, the
land of America is becoming very Un-American.

We owe it to ourselves and our well-being to be
as fully informed as possible on numerous topics.

A good beginning is to eschew the Main-Stream-Media
and the 'party line' which it thoughtlessly reads from
its provided and approved script.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 09, 2015, 09:16:31 PM
The only 'claim' that I make is that all are free to decide for themselves in accordance with their beliefs.  I do not support any loss of this freedom.
Propaganda, as defined in my prior post creates a loss of freedom and if you supported that any more than you already do.  Your next large, needless image post might be you jerking off* over zengardner.com and nobody wants to see that. :)

*Literally - you already do this figuratively :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on February 09, 2015, 10:26:29 PM
Whew...you survived the Ron Paul link SM.

Surprised he didn't hang you on that one.

Avoid Paul, he is controlled opposition...stands being the 9/11 official lie.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on February 09, 2015, 11:22:28 PM
A very good book (http://www.amazon.com/Melanies-Marvelous-Measles-Stephanie-Messenger/dp/1466938897) on vaccinations.
Read the reviews.
Much food for thought.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 09, 2015, 11:45:01 PM
Read the reviews.
Much unadulterated awesome.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on February 10, 2015, 12:22:18 AM
Much unadulterated awesome.
They are super awesome.

My infant daughter went blind after contracting measles from an unvaccinated child, and yet there's no braille version of this wonderful book for me to give her someday to explain to her how awesome the disease that took her sight away is.

As a carpenter who specializes in itty bitty coffins I can't say enough good things about this book, my customer base has been growing at an epidemic rate!

I've been having a hard time finding a way to tell my children why they have to suffer through dangerous and potentially debilitating diseases that were almost eradicated by Vaccines. Thanks to Melanie's Marvelous Measles I now have an easy reader guide that makes me eldest feel less down about the fact he's been crippled from Polio. Apparently telling him"Your grandfather had it in the 1920's and he lived to be 52 thanks to a weakened heart" just hasn't cheered him like it should.
Chloe, my 3-year was worried about the horrible scaring that came along with her case of Rubella. "Don't worry dear," I told her, "Remember Melanie's Marvelous Measles? Melanie is more beautiful for her scars. If you kids don't get sick, how else are we going to go on to build a glorious master race?" Unfortunately the Encephalitis she suffered from the high fever the measles caused means I have to repeat this over and over but the little girl on the cover gives her hope, and really, what else can we give our children?
In fact, Melanie's Marvelous Measles has inspired me to seek out and expose them to a variety of diseases that previously only effected poor, underdeveloped countries.
Think of the unique life experience the bubonic plague could bring? To bad Small Pox is so hard to get, those horrifying blemishes they leave would be a real conversation starter for myself and my horribly misshapen children. If you think about it, really, I'm giving my white, middle-class, suburban offspring a great chance to understand equality in a way my college professor assured me Carl Marx would appreciate. After all, what unites the proletariat like sickness? It's also a great chance to teach them how fun poverty can be. Just think of all the unique, money saving techniques we can devise so we don't have to contract Dengue Fever in a 4-star hotel.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 10, 2015, 12:51:22 AM
Quote from: Cap-Z-ro
..
Avoid Paul, he is controlled opposition...stands being the 9/11 official lie.
...

Quite true, he clearly is.  Although his heart seems to
be sincere he remains loyal to the 'party' and the present
'agenda.'  Is he making the choice as a pragmatist who
really wants to speak out with conviction or is he knowingly
playing the game for the financial rewards?

His son Rand makes no bones about his support for the AGENDA.

Government lies exposed:

The un-employment numbers in the U.S. are cooked (http://henrymakow.com/2015/02/the-big-lie-56-unemployment.html)

CNN creates propaganda broadcasts for pay (http://yournewswire.com/cnn-journalist-governments-pay-us-to-fake-stories-shocking-expose/)

Shocking revelation of the Satanic Connection (http://vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/children-describe-satanic-ritual-abuse-sacrifice-video/)

Thankfully there are some Honest Politicians in France
who see through the U.S. meddling in Europe. (http://rt.com/news/230503-le-pen-us-lackey/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome)  It
would be ever so nice to see the 'leaders' of the other
European Nations break out of their U.S. Puppet trances.



Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on February 10, 2015, 03:26:46 AM
Quite true, he clearly is.  Although his heart seems to
be sincere he remains loyal to the 'party' and the present
'agenda.'  Is he making the choice as a pragmatist who
really wants to speak out with conviction or is he knowingly
playing the game for the financial rewards?

His son Rand makes no bones about his support for the AGENDA.

Government lies exposed:

The un-employment numbers in the U.S. are cooked (http://henrymakow.com/2015/02/the-big-lie-56-unemployment.html)

CNN creates propaganda broadcasts for pay (http://yournewswire.com/cnn-journalist-governments-pay-us-to-fake-stories-shocking-expose/)

Shocking revelation of the Satanic Connection (http://vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/children-describe-satanic-ritual-abuse-sacrifice-video/)

Thankfully there are some Honest Politicians in France
who see through the U.S. meddling in Europe. (http://rt.com/news/230503-le-pen-us-lackey/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome)  It
would be ever so nice to see the 'leaders' of the other
European Nations break out of their U.S. Puppet trances.


Both father and son are filthy dirty SM.

Both know about the pedo rings, and are therefore peso's by proxy, at the very least.

If you're not dirty you're dead...its that simple.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 10, 2015, 04:31:35 PM
Pardon me for interrupting the above circle jerk with something that at least has to do with vaccines.
They are super awesome.
One of my favs...
Quote from: someone who understands measels better than Joel, SeaMonkey, Cap-Mo-ron and allcanadian
Finally, a book by an author that clearly shares my philosophy on reducing the over-abundant human population on Earth. Now, you may ask why I've only rated it with one star when it takes such grand steps towards killing her own family and the families of countless others. The answer is that the book clearly does not go far enough. Why aren't all her children armed with semi-automatic weapons, knives, explosives, and rabid pets?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on February 10, 2015, 07:54:05 PM
Pardon me for interrupting the above circle jerk with something that at least has to do with vaccines.One of my favs...
The comments for that book are priceless.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on February 10, 2015, 08:07:59 PM
Insults from paid shills are the highest form of praise...and a clear indication you are having the desired effect.

Oh, and the ARE doosh bags in other asspects of their miserable lives also.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MileHigh on February 10, 2015, 08:36:15 PM
In skimming through the book comments on Amazon I saw this:

Quote
Som2224, stop talking. Measles is still a highly contagious disease that was practically eradicated from the face of this country and is only making a comeback because of stupid drivel like this book and the whole of the anti-vaccination movement. There IS an agenda out there revolving around vaccinations but it is NOT what you think. The people pushing "alternative treatments"? The people pushing vaccine alternatives that have no solid evidence to show that they work as well as vaccines (or at all)? THESE people are the ones pushing an agenda, and it's a rather effective one.

"BE AFRAID AND BUY OUR SNAKE OIL."
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 10, 2015, 08:39:44 PM
Quote from: more great reviews
I really don't understand why there are so many negative reviews on this book. Before contracting the measles from a neighborhood measles party, my 2-year-old son was curious, rambunctious, and a bit of a handful if I'm honest. As a stay-at-home mom, I really had to work hard to keep up with him and find creative ways to stimulate his imagination. It was fun, but also mentally exhausting at times. As soon as he caught the measles, he became so boring and lethargic that I was able to sit and watch my soap operas all day every day! Once my son recovered from the measles, I did my research and found a polio party a few hours away. It was a bit of a drive, but boy was it worth the trouble! Now, my son hangs out in the living room in his iron lung all day and I get to do whatever I want. Being a stay-at-home mom has never been easier!!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on February 10, 2015, 09:13:48 PM
Quote from: more great reviews
I really don't understand why there are so many negative reviews on this book. Before contracting the measles from a neighborhood measles party, my 2-year-old son was curious, rambunctious, and a bit of a handful if I'm honest. As a stay-at-home mom, I really had to work hard to keep up with him and find creative ways to stimulate his imagination. It was fun, but also mentally exhausting at times. As soon as he caught the measles, he became so boring and lethargic that I was able to sit and watch my soap operas all day every day! Once my son recovered from the measles, I did my research and found a polio party a few hours away. It was a bit of a drive, but boy was it worth the trouble! Now, my son hangs out in the living room in his iron lung all day and I get to do whatever I want. Being a stay-at-home mom has never been easier!!
That's brutal.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 10, 2015, 09:46:57 PM
Italian Court Rules that Vaccines Cause Autism (http://www.zengardner.com/us-media-blackout-italian-court-rules-vaccines-cause-autism/)

Big Pharma markets to Doctors (http://www.zengardner.com/marketing-doctors-big-pharmas-drug-rep-industry/)

The Love of Money ruins lives.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 10, 2015, 10:35:45 PM
Italian Court Rules that Vaccines Cause Autism[/url
 (http://www.zengardner.com/us-media-blackout-italian-court-rules-vaccines-cause-autism/)
Well now that you've gotten your spooge out*

Anything in that post you think is nice strong evidence?  Hmmm?  Anything you read? Applied any critical thought to?  No?  So is it SeaMonkey's advice that people should generally ignore her posts?

*glad there wasn't a photo attachment to that post.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 11, 2015, 04:39:18 PM
There are a fair amount of Canadians here so I thought I'd post this:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/02/05/hpv-vaccine-gardasil-has-a-dark-side-star-investigation-finds.html

The obvious criticism about anecdote apply.  In any population of 130 Million you can find a time series of unspecified serious health events.  The bit about aluminum was particularly annoying.  While intolerance to metals isn't unheard of it's usually in people with implants like artificial hips.  I guarantee that those people get far more metal in their bloodstream than 230 mcg of Aluminum salts with Gardasil (or 330 mcg Cevarix IIRC).  It's interesting that a similar (often higher) dosage is used in the DTaP, DT, TDaP vaccines.  Which as a Canadian child she should have had much earlier.  So a) Did she have that vaccine? b) If not, why take Gardasil?  If she did, why blame Gardasil?

It's not the kind of shoddy reporting that we expect from zengardner SeaMonkey's Anti-Vaccination Pr0n Site but it's still shoddy reporting.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 11, 2015, 09:49:17 PM
MD Pill Pushers - A Personal Story (http://henrymakow.com/2015/02/pill-pushers.html)

Study:  Chemotherapy Treated Cancer Patients Die
Sooner Than No Treatment At All (http://www.endalldisease.com/study-chemotherapy-treated-cancer-patients-die-sooner-than-the-untreated/)

Love of Money creates terrible problems.

Moscow's problem is in reality everyone's problem.
The West has become naught more than a bunch
of Imbeciles and Vassals. (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article40962.htm)

Is it any wonder that the Peoples of The West who
are bombarded incessantly with propaganda have
become so stupid?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 11, 2015, 10:07:41 PM

Study:  Chemotherapy Treated Cancer Patients Die
Sooner Than No Treatment At All (http://www.endalldisease.com/study-chemotherapy-treated-cancer-patients-die-sooner-than-the-untreated/)
It's always cute when someone trots out a golden oldie like Hardin Jones.  This was what 1940s?  a) His study doesn't actually say what you think it does and b) it has very little overall to say about chemotherapy.  Taxol wasn't even around until the 1960s.
Quote
The West has become naught more than a bunch of Imbeciles
Only if you have your way. :)

Quote
Is it any wonder that the Peoples of The West who are bombarded incessantly with propaganda have
become so stupid?
Awesome! As everything you post could easily fit in a number of reasonable definitions of propaganda.  You have essentially argued yourself out of ever posting again. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 11, 2015, 10:35:36 PM
Sar-Ke,

My, my, my!!  Your desperation is ramping up as
is your very obvious frustration! :o :(

I know you have a hard time dealing with anything
which runs contrary to your propaganda-created
faux-reality but, as we were told several times daily
by the Deck Boatswain:  "Tuff Sh!t!"

Somehow you'll adjust to the breaking down of what
you believed to be Gospel. ::) 8)

Yeah, I know.  It hurts a lot.  Two cookies and a glass of
cold milk once again. ;) ;D
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on February 11, 2015, 10:38:45 PM
He's just collecting his paycheck...and having a little sick pleasure while he's about it...thats all.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 12, 2015, 12:14:38 AM
It seems pretty obvious to me, that under any reasonable definition of propaganda what you post would qualify.  If you weren't entirely unable to argue your point it would be interesting to see you try to defend it. Instead I'll have to settle for getting you - on record - admitting that what you do makes people stupid. :)  Anyway on to your squirming...
Your desperation is ramping up as is your very obvious frustration! :o :(
Again pro-tip: In written speech when observing something rather than say fabricating it you don't need to hit the adjectives so hard.  Perhaps it's all the crazy-talk on zengardner which, between orgasms has desensitized you to the difference between that and normal speech.

Pro-tip II: Don't use the same adjectival phrase in close proximity.  Doing so sounds like some grand crescendo of desperation.  It looks artificial.

Quote
Yeah, I know.  It hurts a lot.
Pro-tip III: Apparently you *do* know because this comes off as projecting more than anything else.

Just trying to help. :)

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 12, 2015, 07:37:55 AM
Little by little as I'm learning about vaccinations the truth is coming out. I need to do more study to gather my thoughts and explain them but since this is just a forum i'm not going to even waste my energy to explain them all i'm just going to express my opinion and the reader should make their own judgment.

What I have noticed is that many people are uneducated in vaccinations. Even the nurses. It's understandable cause who is out there teaching the inner workings about vaccinations? No one. One just expects them to work and one puts their whole TRUST in to the medicine. Studies after studies have been done that show peoples lack of understanding. You can even see the truth in your average local channels. Many have done shows asking people things like how the brain works, how light works, how LCD TV screen works, how mind manipulation works, etc, they have no clue. By the same token, we have people that have no clue if the teacher is a good one or one that was put there because the school lacks teachers. There was this school where the gym teacher was also the math teacher. Lol. In that example, the teacher could not be an expert in both. How do i know, I was in his math class and in his gym class. He was teaching math as if he was learning himself.

So there is FREE RULING for vaccination makers to just vaccine as they wish with out people actually asking what it's in it let alone how will the vaccine impacts/impairs the body in the long run. Due to understanding how courts work, that would be a very very very hard case to prove even though they might be doing harm to people over the long run. One example of such complications would be, how do you prove what is predispose genetic VS man made mutations. The vaccine markers have full UNREGULATED authority. Well, they may be regulated but for sure not by the common people since time after time shows that people know jack shyt about anything outside Hollywood entertainment. SO if the majority of the people DO NOT understand how viruses spread around yet how they are BORN, how in the world could they defend themselves against long terms ill effects due to a vaccination? Lol they can't. Let alone prove if any future long term illness is due a vaccine.

People blame the un-vaccinated and not blame the lack of EDUCATING their kids. Studies upon studies have shown that people are stubborn and are not health conscious. When parents teach their kids starting from birth to be clean and how to prevent contact spreading or air spreading viruses is when virus spreading will become less fruitful. But how do break from that cicle now that there are more un-educated people than educated people? The responsibility is on those that already have the answer to teach the masses. Because obviously the masses don't know jack and only rely on the drugs.

I saw one study they did here in the USA that showed less than 50% of the people wash their hands after they use the bath room. That means like in a baseball game stadium, there will be a lot of bacteria in the door handle. Or anywhere people put their hands on. Hell, there is even bacteria in the air and those hand air blow dryers may suck a bacteria from the air on to your wet hands than by just drying your hands on a paper towel.

The currency is the dirties thing one can touch out there that people come in contact with regurlaly. One disgusting example that I know is that crack heads use the one dollar bill to roll it up in to a straw to snort up the powder. Then they lick the left powder off the dollar bill or rub it inside their gums. For the reason, the dollar would be the dirties than  $50/$100 bill.

Bla blah blah....There is no way 100% with out a doubt that vaccinations are NOT the answer for health period. The only answer is understanding where viruses come from and how they are prevented.

1- The way I see it, people that are not educated should be MANDATORY to take vaccinations. For example, all drug addicts that go through the jail system should get their future/current kids vaccinated MANDATORY.

2- When a HIGH-RISK virus is detected in a person, all the relatives should get MANDATORY vaccinated.

3- All airports should have MANDATORY electronic detectors as to detect the peoples body temperature. The ones with high levels should be asked to be kept for evaluation. I'm sure this would make people who travel more aware of their health.

I'm pretty sure there are wayyyy more solutions than just go all APE SHYT and do MANDATORY vaccination wold wide. Might as well vaccinate all monkeys and chickens too.




Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 12, 2015, 05:13:43 PM
So again, when are you going to comply with the intellectual challenge I gave you?  You act all "ok let's play" but when it comes to doing a 10 min task - creating a website account and posting your username here.  You act like you have amnesia.

I mean if don't think you can beat me.  That's cool.  Nobody said you had to play but you did seem willing...or at least willing to boast about your intellect.
Little by little as I'm learning
I doubt this really happens.  How about telling us about all the places you were wrong about vaccines?  The places where your opinion was incredibly stupid and moronic?  Do those places not exist?  Were you wrong about nothing?  Then you probably didn't really learn anything either.
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What I have noticed is that many people are uneducated in vaccinations.
Mostly you.  Ever notice that you don't really say *what* is missing from their education.  A good sign that this is more your prejudices than an actual critical observation.
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who is out there teaching the inner woed rkings about vaccinations? No one.
The only reason this question makes sense to you is because "inner workings" is defined to mean something that is unimportant to answering the questions most pertinent to people receiving vaccines - "What is the evidence for them being safe and effective?" - You're making a logical fallacy called an "argument by special definition".
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Many have done shows asking people things like how the brain works, how light works, how LCD TV screen works, how mind manipulation works, etc, they have no clue.
All of which it is possible to be ignorant of and to have perfect information on if one should get vaccinated.  So this is not a relevant criticism.

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So there is FREE RULING for vaccination makers to just vaccine as they wish with out people actually asking what it's in it let alone how will the vaccine impacts/impairs the body in the long run.
Not true.  All medicine is required to publish ingredients and studies on efficacy and safety.
Quote
how do you prove what is predispose genetic VS man made mutations.
The only real question is "How do we tell if people are being harmed?" - and the answer to that is in probability theory, epidemiological studies, toxicity trials and seroconversion studies.   
Quote
Well, they may be regulated but for sure not by the common people
Irrelevant requirement. Not everything needs to be regulated by everyone.
Quote
SO if the majority of the people DO NOT understand how viruses spread around yet how they are BORN, how in the world could they defend themselves against long terms ill effects due to a vaccination? Lol they can't. Let alone prove if any future long term illness is due a vaccine.
So people can't take the advice of people who know about these things and apply it?  For example if the people who understand vaccines the best say "Vaccines will very likely prevent more disease than they can cause".  People can't get vaccinated and thus defend themselves?  Seems like they can.
Quote
There is no way 100% with out a doubt that vaccinations are NOT the answer for health period.
They are a very important part in disease control - you can wash your hands, cough toward the floor and you will still, always infect people with measles.  Every day you will, all the time.  Why because in your unvaccinated world where Joel likes to see people die even with washing your hands and coughing toward the floor.  You will still shed viruses.  90% of the time - contact with those viruses will cause a case of measles.

Washing your hands and trying to keep from spreading your diseases is fine but making all disease control entirely based on people doing things like that absolutely perfectly all the time is simply stupid and completely ignorant of virtually every facet of ID control.  Everyone who was working in the US controlling Ebola cases was highly educated, wore far greater protective gear than any educated person today would and they still managed to make procedural mistakes.  Even when their life was on the line.
Quote
1- The way I see it, people that are not educated should be MANDATORY to take vaccinations. For example, all drug addicts that go through the jail system should get their future/current kids vaccinated MANDATORY.
How about uneducated people like yourself stop posting nonsense.

Quote
I'm pretty sure there are wayyyy more solutions than just go all APE SHYT and do MANDATORY vaccination wold wide.
So far, you are the only person I've met saying this.  What is more likely is that some school exemptions will be taken away
.  I'd agree with that, most of them seem to be used for people who are stupid - like yourself - to foist their stupid onto their kids.  Just like you are doing here. :)  Legislating vaccines for school attendance is really no different than legislating auto insurance for driving on the road.

So about that game...or are you using all these dodges to try and teach yourself. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 12, 2015, 07:14:52 PM
Quote
I doubt this really happens.  How about telling us about all the places you were wrong about vaccines?  The places where your opinion was incredibly stupid and moronic?  Do those places not exist?  Were you wrong about nothing?  Then you probably didn't really learn anything either.
Quote
Dude please use your brain to figure out things. The reason that you believe I don't understand it is due to a language barrier. The way I speak does not click in your brain because i'm not use to explaining my mind to others. But the over thought process has been the same since the beginning.
Besides, why are you even responding to this. This just throws everything out of context which gets tiring after a while.
Quote
Mostly you.  Ever notice that you don't really say *what* is missing from their education.  A good sign that this is more your prejudices than an actual critical observation.

If you are “so smart” why can't you see the obvious yourself:

-The remote control in the house in most homes has fecal matter.

-The dollar bill has fecal matter, human spit, cocaine, and a plethora of other things.

-During flu/common cold season, people cough in ther hands and shake hands. People cought in the air where we know that a cought can spread the virus 10 feet away.

-House keeping ladies are not tought how to properly clean. I've seen cleaning ladies mop the floor using toilet water. LOL. This is behind the scenes because no-one would see this since they close the bathroom when they are cleaning.

-A lot of people don't understand how viruses enter the body in the first place. Most believe that they get the flu/common cold because of temperature change = un-educated. They don't know that it comes from the ground and enters the body.

-blah blah blah blah!

So you are telling me that I MOSTLY don't know LOL. You are living in a bubble and believe that 80% of the USA population is educated regarding simplistic stuff. Even on TV commercials advertising flu products, you will see a lady coughing in her mouth when a SMART PERSON WOULD KNOW NOT TO DO THAT! Or am I wrong?

Quote
The only reason this question makes sense to you is because "inner workings" is defined to mean something that is unimportant to answering the questions most pertinent to people receiving vaccines - "What is the evidence for them being safe and effective?" - You're making a logical fallacy called an "argument by special definition".

The only reason it does not make sense to you is because you believe that learning how it works from the bottom up is not important, when it is to me and should be to everyone else.

For example, when you get a “check engine” in your car, you WILL NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO. You will just pay a mechanic and hope he fixes it. The way my mentality work is not that way. I would know what the problem is and pay the mechanic to fix ONLY what I ask to be fixed. But you probably won't get that. Ah well.

Quote
All of which it is possible to be ignorant of and to have perfect information on if one should get vaccinated.  So this is not a relevant criticism.

It does relate to vaccinations because people should be informed what they are getting shoved in their bodies. And it should be made more clear to everyone not just write descriptive lazy medical lingo.

Quote
All medicine is required to publish ingredients and studies on efficacy and safety.

ok please find me the published ingredients in 15 measles vaccinations strains? Or link to the 21 different strains known of the measles virus?

Quote
The only real question is "How do we tell if people are being harmed?" - and the answer to that is in probability theory, epidemiological studies, toxicity trials and seroconversion studies.   

The answer to that is not known yet because the vaccines only come via studying it's affects on animals that probably don't live as long as HUMANS DO. How would you be able to know what the vaccine HARMS over the long run if the animals in a lab do not live as long as a real human?

Quote
Irrelevant requirement. Not everything needs to be regulated by everyone.

Well that's your opinion.

Quote
So people can't take the advice of people who know about these things and apply it?  For example if the people who understand vaccines the best say "Vaccines will very likely prevent more disease than they can cause".  People can't get vaccinated and thus defend themselves?  Seems like they can.

-A lot of people don't know that the fecal matter of cats/dogs/any animal carry many harmful life long viruses.
-Yeah and a lot of people believe in the loch ness monster.
-A lot of people believe in fortune card reading tellers.
-A lot of people believe in sasquatch. 
-Chupa cabra
-etc etc.

If you understand how packs of wolves social lives work, you should be able to understand how socialism in people work. You believe that word of mouth means they know what they are talking about? This is not me saying it, FACTS say it. I'm just repeating that facts that most people are not well aware about how things work in life, let alone about vaccines.

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They are a very important part in disease control - you can wash your hands, cough toward the floor and you will still, always infect people with measles. Every day you will, all the time.  ...even with washing your hands and coughing toward the floor.  You will still shed viruses. 90% of the time - contact with those viruses will cause a case of measles.

Fear mongering much? The flu virus spreads the same way and where I work 90% of the people don't get the flu from sick people at work. You are just talking crazy stuff. From the year 200 to 208 about how many cases of the measles? And from those how many have died?

What should be mandatory is fro little kids in schools be isolated when they see them coughing right away since they are the least likely to learn preventative measure.

In the middle school and up, they should be educated in prevention.

Quote
Washing your hands and trying to keep from spreading your diseases is fine but making all disease control entirely based on people doing things like that absolutely perfectly all the time is simply stupid and completely ignorant of virtually every facet of ID control.  Everyone who was working in the US controlling Ebola cases was highly educated, wore far greater protective gear than any educated person today would and they still managed to make procedural mistakes.  Even when their life was on the line.

Yeah like that doctor that was told to wait for a few weeks before mingling with people because she was at high risk and she didn't! Yeah, instead of WISHFUL speaking, why don't you use your research.

Plus, you are the stupid one believe in in that there is one vaccine that cures all strains of the viruses. An as you an expert, do not understand that preventative measures are more important than curing measures.  Take for example the HIV/AIDS virus. Is not PREVENTATIVE measures more important than the cure? The same can be said for cancers too.

NO matter what you say, you seem to live in this little world of yours and have not experience real life scenarios. Go out and mingle with people and ask them things like: why they believe in vaccinations here in the USA. Ask them about the ORIGIN of the virus strains and how it enters the body. Ask them if there are any ill affects to the body of a human. Ask them what they are being injected with. Ask them how they make the vaccines in the first place? Go ahead and ask all of your educated people that live in your bubble. Lol  ::)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 12, 2015, 08:49:52 PM
Quote from: Sar-Ke-Izen
...
I mean if don't think you can beat me.  That's cool.  Nobody said you had to play but you did seem willing...or at least willing to boast about your intellect.
...

Sar-Ke,

It is those rare moments of candid reflection
which help us to see that these discussions
to you are just games.  Exercises entered into
in order to boost EGO and SELF-IMPORTANCE.

Thanks for removing all doubt about your
pretense of sincerity, empathy and interest
in TRUTH.

Very sadly, LOVE OF MONEY is a highly contagious
disease which is much advanced in its goal of
ruining this planet and all life upon it.

Your condition seems to be terminal Sar-Ke.

How about coming up with a vaccine to cure
LOVE OF MONEY?  R-u-Game?

By the way, you're doing a magnificent job of
beating yourself.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Robert on February 12, 2015, 09:19:00 PM
https://rafzen.wordpress.com/2014/12/29/flu-vaccine-contains-25000-times-more-mercury-than-is-legally-allowed-in-drinking-water/

Flu shots contain 25,000 times more mercury than allowed in drinking water.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 12, 2015, 09:35:10 PM
So another post without mention of my intellectual contest...hmmmmmmm.....does that mean you forfeit?
The reason that you believe I don't understand it is due to a language barrier.
No.  I think you don't understand because you're stupid.  Not to mention that I'm not convince there's much of a language barrier here except the one you affect.  Anyway you're off topic.  I was responding to what you LEARNED because that tends to mean you were wrong about something.  So far you haven't admitted being wrong about anything.  So I'm doubtful that someone like you learns anything.

Quote
Theremotecontrolinthehouseinmosthomeshasfecalmatter.Thedollarbillhasfecalmatterhumanspitcocaineandaplethoraofot
herthings.Duringflu/commoncoldseasonpeoplecoughintherhandsandshakehands.Peoplecoughtintheairwhereweknowthatacoug
htcanspreadthevirus10feetaway.Housekeepingladiesarenottoughthowtoproperlyclean.I'veseencleaningladiesmopthefloorusing
toiletwater.LOL.Thisisbehindthescenesbecauseno-onewouldseethissincetheyclosethebathroomwhentheyarecleaning. Alotof
peopledon'tunderstandhowvirusesenterthebodyinthefirstplace.Mostbelievethattheygettheflu/commoncoldbecauseoftemperatur
echange=un-educated.Theydon'tknowthatitcomesfromthegroundandentersthebody.
However the topic is: "Should we vaccinate".  All of your precautions don't stop the spread of most viruses and definitely provide no guarantee as to newer viruses. 
Quote
So you are telling me that I MOSTLY don't know LOL.
Yep.  You are just as ignorant, if not more than ordinary people when it comes to ID.
Quote
You are living in a bubble and believe that 80% of the USA population is educated regarding simplistic stuff.
No if SeaMonkey is correct and the vast majority trust (or are brainwashed into) trusting medical professionals.  Then, with regard to the question "should I get vaccinated" you are simply poorly informed.
Quote
you will see a lady coughing in her mouth
What does that look like exactly. :)
Quote
The only reason it does not make sense to you is because you believe that learning how it works from the bottom up is not important, when it is to me and should be to everyone else.
It depends on the question being asked.  If the question is: "Should I vaccinate?" or "Are vaccinations effective and safe?" then you are statistically unlikely to learn anything by first studying viruses at the sub-molecular level.
Quote
For example, when you get a “check engine” in your car, you WILL NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO. You will just pay a mechanic and hope he fixes it.
I'll usually do a cost-benefit analysis using Bayesian methods.  The probability of a check engine light going on, the likelihood of getting it fixed by a mechanic vs the opportunity cost of learning to do it myself.  If there's benefit I'll learn it if there isn't I'll use people who's time is less valuable than mine...like yours. :)  Interesting fact, over time my system is PROVABLY better than yours. 
Quote
It does relate to vaccinations because people should be informed what they are getting shoved in their bodies.
Again if the question is: "Should I vaccinate?" or "Are vaccinations safe and effective?" then again you would very likely be wasting someones time.
Quote
ok please find me the published ingredients in 15 measles vaccinations strains?
Vaccines don't contain strains.  So I can't comply - if you mean serotype then you should say so.  If you're too ignorant to know the difference you should say so.  However the monograph has all the ingredients of all vaccines.  Most you can find easily online. :)
Quote
The answer to that is not known yet because the vaccines only come via studying it's affects on animals
Nope.  Safety information comes from a variety of sources but generally controlled human studies, epidemiology and probability theory.
Quote
How would you be able to know what the vaccine HARMS over the long run if the animals in a lab do not live as long as a real human?
Animals are mostly used for toxicity studies.  What you describe here isn't about toxicity.  These are generally addressed by what I describe earlier.
Quote
Well that's your opinion.
It's yours too.  Otherwise you would support everyone voting on everything.  Which is both unfeasible and stupid.
Quote
Alotofpeopledon'tknowthatthefecalmatterofcats/dogs/anyanimalcarrymanyharmfullifelongviruses.Yeahandalotofpeople
believeinthelochnessmonster.Alotofpeoplebelieveinfortunecardreadingtellers.Alotofpeoplebelieveinsasquatch.Chupacabra
However these are irrelevant.  People do believe silly things but that doesn't stop them from believing correct things.
Quote
The flu virus spreads the same way
Wrongo.  The flu infects at an r0 of 1.2-1.6 - just barely enough to survive.  The r0 of measels is 18.  It's simple math - people will get infected even if you do things the joel-the-moron-way. We've seen this in many disease outbreaks.

Quote
From the year 200 to 208
I don't have data from 200 but in 180 there was an outbreak of possibly the measles or smallpox in the Roman empire which caused about 2000 deaths per day according to one historian.  Unless of course you meant 2000-2008.  In that case there were few cases in the US (the rest of the world wasn't so lucky) probably <1000 which means there were few deaths.  That was when there was a high degree of coverage in vaccination (most of that period for the US was above 90%)
Quote
What should be mandatory is fro little kids in schools be isolated
By people in hazmat gear?  As they walk down the hall and cough some of people who walk down the hall after them will get infected.

Quote
Yeah like that doctor that was told to wait for a few weeks before mingling with people because she was at high risk and she didn't! Yeah, instead of WISHFUL speaking, why don't you use your research.
So again, even highly trained professionals will risk their lives and others.  Making your plan, when compared to vaccination - stupid. :)
Quote
you are the stupid one believe in in that there is one vaccine that cures all strains of the viruses.
I actually didn't say that.  It wouldn't surprise me if Rhinoviruses or other RNA viruses never end up with a vaccine.  However again if the question is: "Should I vaccinate?" or "Are vaccines safe and effective?" then all evidence points to "yes".  What you propose is inferior both in terms of cost and outcome.

Quote
An as you an expert, do not understand that preventative measures are more important than curing measures.
Vaccines are preventative measures doofus. :)

Quote
and mingle with people and ask them things like: why they believe in vaccinations here in the USA. Ask them about the ORIGIN of the virus strains and how it enters the body. Ask them if there are any ill affects to the body of a human. Ask them what they are being injected with. Ask them how they make the vaccines in the first place? Go ahead and ask all of your educated people that live in your bubble. Lol  ::)
All of those are not necessary to answering the question: "Should I be vaccinated?" and "Are vaccines safe and effective?"  Just helping you stay on topic.

Now you're outright ignoring my requests for a game.  Loser! :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 12, 2015, 09:58:37 PM
Flu shots contain 25,000 times more mercury than allowed in drinking water.
So you a) You think that's correct and b) you think that's significant.   

Right?  Did you also get a C or lower in math?

See similarly the allowable amount of fluoride in water is about 1 ppm but the average amount found in toothpaste is about 1000x times that.  Why the discrepancy?  Allowable dosages are designed around various limits like the amount a human can ingest before harm.  Usually there is some wide safety margin like 100x lower than the lowest known dangerous chronic dose.

Clearly as water is used to wash, cook, drink and is a large part of virtually everything we ingest.  Hence to keep our overall dosage low it makes sense to keep the mean dosage low.  Vaccines in contrast represent a comparatively small part of what we take into our bodies every year.  So the amount in a vaccine is still harmless.

(Not even touching on the fact that a) It's a different kind of mercury b) only one vaccine contains that level of mercury c) There are studies showing higher dosages and no affect on cognitive function.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 13, 2015, 06:19:48 AM
Quote
So another post without mention of my intellectual contest...hmmmmmmm.....does that mean you forfeit?

lol. You and your little games.

Here we go again with your dissecting my paragraphs like you dissect animals in  a lab. How many times do I have to tell you not to dissect my paragraphs to keep things in context you little dimwit.
 
Quote
Not to mention that I'm not convince there's much of a language barrier here except the one you affect.

I'm pretty sure you are living in a cave sir. You just like to ASSUME you know others peoples inner thoughts as if you are a fortune teller.

Time after time I keep on telling you that a lawyers language, even though they both speak native language, will not understand each other, hence language barrier. NOT in the native language ITSELF but in the language of defining the terms. How hard is that to understand?

So here I am trying to even teach you this simplistic side of things and you keep on denying it as if it is not true. Then you have the decency to call yourself “smart” and knowing a lot of things when you DON'T! You probably are familiar with medical terms and vaccinations but you don't know jack shit out of that.

I already mentioned that millions of dollars are lost by many businesses each year due to the lack being able to communicate with each other – get the MAIN point across.

You can say that I don't struggle in putting my English words on paper is not hard for me but I know it is...i edit a lot to try to put my point across. You sir are a dimwit if you believe that I don't struggle with the language barrier.

I'm sure you can understand the language barrier when you try to communicate with your girlfriend, they both speak different “languages” sort to speak while they both speak the same language. i.e. men are from mars, women are from Venus. You dumbo.

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However the topic is: "Should we vaccinate".  All of your precautions don't stop the spread of most viruses and definitely provide no guarantee as to newer viruses. 

No shit. Nothing is 100% guaranteed. What we focus on is at least 80-90% positive results.

You little carrot top, vaccinations do not mean you will be cured from all viruses! A vaccine only tries to hep the immune system in the body regarding one strain.

Tell me if I get vaccinated from 25 different strains of the measles right now, how many other toxic things will I be injected with?

Now add that to flu virus vaccines that, if I get every year, how many toxic things will my body receive? Lets say I get vaccinated every year for 3 different flu virus strains , does not the toxic level of the additives of vaccinations add up? Now add up all the vaccination additives all together and tell me how many toxics have been injected in my body? Now tell me WITH OUT A DOUBT WITH STATISTICS ON PAPER, that there will not be long term affects? Tell how how that will not reduce my life expectancy 100%?

Use your brain!

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You are just as ignorant, if not more than ordinary people when it comes to ID.

You are the ignorant one being blinded by BIG BROTHER. Ahem, corruption corrupts absolutely. IOW, it should be mandatory to explain to everyone what they are being injected with the same way as it is MANDATORY to label all food consumer products with a label as to what it is in the product. Is not like they will stop drinking sugary drinks! Or that they will stop eating fatty foods. If people where SOOO smart like you say, I would expect 80% of the USA people be very healthy. But the ignorance or the mental part of the craving does not allow them to think LOGICALLY you jack ass. Lol

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Then, with regard to the question "should I get vaccinated" you are simply poorly informed

Do you take the flu shot every year?

How do you prevent an STD?

Why do you wash your hands?

Why do you wear a respiratory mask when you paint?

Why do we have hair, eye brows, eye lashes, ear wax, nose hairs, mucus, etc? Geee let me thing, PREVENTATIVE measures you ignorant little worm.

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What does that look like exactly.

Trying to close mouth while coughing as to prevent the cough mostly. What does it look like...use your brain. Cheeks inflate and then they de-inflate (the opposite of inflate lol whats the word) to infect the person next to them.

What I would do is cough in my hand and then shake hands with you. :P that way I won't leave any evidence that I tried to get you sick on purpose.

Even if I coughed in your face and you get the flu virus, how will I get reprimanded?

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It depends on the question being asked.  If the question is: "Should I vaccinate?" or "Are vaccinations effective and safe?" then you are statistically unlikely to learn anything by first studying viruses at the sub-molecular level.

Oh you are brain washed 100%. Get sick and ask questions later.

Actually learning about viruses in the sub-molecular level is way better than getting the vaccine BECAUSE the only people that get sick do not know how they work. They just act careless and vaccine influence their carelessness as to believe that they don't have to worry because a vaccine is their cure to their suffering.
Dude, the virus enters the body from the ground, sick animals, or by air for those unlucky having their mouth opened while a virus is in the air trying to find a hoax.

Do you have a shrine in your room where you offer objects to a needle as offerings as a thank you to your god?

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I'll usually do a cost-benefit analysis using Bayesian methods.  The probability of a check engine light going on, the likelihood of getting it fixed by a mechanic vs the opportunity cost of learning to do it myself.  If there's benefit I'll learn it if there isn't I'll use people who's time is less valuable than mine...like yours. Interesting fact, over time my system is PROVABLY better than yours.

See how I didn't CHOPPED your paragraph. Lol, now explain to me the bold part? Do tell!

 
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Again if the question is: "Should I vaccinate?" or "Are vaccinations safe and effective?" then again you would very likely be wasting someones time.

Your lack of looking at things from different angles is your Achilles heel.

Hmmm...how do you know that vaccinations do not cause long term crippling ailments? Remember when I told you that lab animals (where the vaccine is tested and produced) do not LIVE AS LONG AS HUMANS DO! So they can't not no the long term side effects if the lab rat dies before 100 years expectancy. IOW, no matter how RELIGIOUSLY you put the faith in the vaccine, you don't know jack shit the long term ill affects of a vaccine past the lab rats life expectancy!

Speaking of lab rats. Tell me you all mighty intelligent individual, on what type of animals do they test the flu virus on and what are the side negative side effects on said animal?

Bathe me in your INTELLIGENCE to rinse my ignorance “master”. Lol

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Vaccines don't contain strains.  So I can't comply - if you mean serotype then you should say so.  If you're too ignorant to know the difference you should say so.  However the monograph has all the ingredients of all vaccines.  Most you can find easily online.

oh scape goating much, can you say meeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhh!!!, goat?

Give me the link?

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Safety information comes from a variety of sources but generally controlled human studies, epidemiology and probability theory.

Source?

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Animals are mostly used for toxicity studies.  What you describe here isn't about toxicity.  These are generally addressed by what I describe earlier.

lol. This is what they do---let me inject this in here. Lets wait. It didn't die, well it must be safe for humans too.

I'm asking you specifit questions smart one.

On what animal do they test the measles virus first before they mass produce?

And how long is the animals healthy life expectancy?

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The flu infects at an r0 of 1.2-1.6 - just barely enough to survive.  The r0 of measels is 18.  It's simple math - people will get infected even if you do things the joel-the-moron-way. We've seen this in many disease outbreaks.

You gusano, I was not referring in to the measles strain being more dangerous to people than the flu virus. I was merely saying that it spreads the same way as the flu virus does.

Sooo you are telling me if I have a measles virus sitting on my skin, it will dig itself in and contaminate my body? That's what you are saying right? The virus digs through my skin and infects people. Lol

I know that the measles virus is deadly and I also know that eating shit is can be deadly too. On nooooo I'm standing on the floor where there are billions of viruses in the ground. We have billions of viruses in our bodies right now. That's why we shower and we should not shower a lot because we have healthy viruses that protect us from such viruses.

I'm not speaking about what virus is more dangerous than the other, i'm speaking about how it ENTERS THE BODY IN THE FIRST PLACE!

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By people in hazmat gear?  As they walk down the hall and cough some of people who walk down the hall after them will get infected.

OHH the measles virus is RADIO active...lol.

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So again, even highly trained professionals will risk their lives and others.  Making your plan, when compared to vaccination – stupid.

The point was that you seem to believe that they got infected even though they were wearing a condom. You failed to realiced that the only reason they got infect is because of the “vaccine mentality” ...i don't need no stinking viruses when I have vaccines! Lol

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I actually didn't say that.  It wouldn't surprise me if Rhinoviruses or other RNA viruses never end up with a vaccine.  However again if the question is: "Should I vaccinate?" or "Are vaccines safe and effective?" then all evidence points to "yes".  What you propose is inferior both in terms of cost and outcome.

Well that's the problem, you don't care what the negative ill affects due to human bodies as long as the virus is “controlled”.

That shows your stupidity. It is better to teach how they get it in the first place and avoid all the toxic chemicals in the body too!

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Vaccines are preventative measures doofus.
Understanding how the virus spreads is wayy better than vaccines doofus.

How do you get vaccinated from your stupidity?

I forgot you have ADD and OCD and probably CDC agoraphobia.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sparks on February 13, 2015, 05:24:28 PM
     There must be some malfunction of the cell hosting the virus in as much that the white blood cells are unable to identify the infected cell.   Cells must communicate somehow as to the state of their well being.   Once the cell membrane is breached and the virus is inside the castle walls so to speak why doesn't the cell signal it's being attacked?.   The virus must either dissolve the cell membrane or attach itself to the cell and inject it's genetic material or disguise itself as a nutrient.  But once in why doesn't the cell just kill itself or at least red tag itself.  The dissolution of the cell membrane must leave a scar.  Why isn't this scar perceived by the cop cells?  Does the attack on the cell membrane go unnoticed by the cell?  When we get cold tired and hungry does the cell loosen up on what it allows inside?  Do microbes offer up a trojan horse to the cell disguising themselves as energy laden proteins needed by the cell? 
    As far as vaccines are concerned I always understood that they worked well on bacteria.  The bacteria were killed and their carcass was injected.  Bacteria have a cell wall and the antigens were able to be made by the body and stored in the library for future use in case a live bacteria is encountered.  But there is such a small distinction between a live virus and a dead virus or a mutant virus I would think the job would be formidable.   If however you were able to have the war waged outside the victim where it couldnt spread it would be a good thing.   Like take a blood sample and culture it from time to time.  The virus infects the culture and the culture gets the cold.  Once the antigens are devloped for the diseased culture these are seperated and you take a shot of smart white blood cells.

   
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on February 13, 2015, 06:10:06 PM
     There must be some malfunction of the cell hosting the virus in as much that the white blood cells are unable to identify the infected cell.   Cells must communicate somehow as to the state of their well being.   Once the cell membrane is breached and the virus is inside the castle walls so to speak why doesn't the cell signal it's being attacked?.   The virus must either dissolve the cell membrane or attach itself to the cell and inject it's genetic material or disguise itself as a nutrient.  But once in why doesn't the cell just kill itself or at least red tag itself.  The dissolution of the cell membrane must leave a scar.  Why isn't this scar perceived by the cop cells?  Does the attack on the cell membrane go unnoticed by the cell?  When we get cold tired and hungry does the cell loosen up on what it allows inside?  Do microbes offer up a trojan horse to the cell disguising themselves as energy laden proteins needed by the cell? 
    As far as vaccines are concerned I always understood that they worked well on bacteria.  The bacteria were killed and their carcass was injected.  Bacteria have a cell wall and the antigens were able to be made by the body and stored in the library for future use in case a live bacteria is encountered.  But there is such a small distinction between a live virus and a dead virus or a mutant virus I would think the job would be formidable.   If however you were able to have the war waged outside the victim where it couldnt spread it would be a good thing.   Like take a blood sample and culture it from time to time.  The virus infects the culture and the culture gets the cold.  Once the antigens are devloped for the diseased culture these are seperated and you take a shot of smart white blood cells.

   

Sparks, don't forget the PTB has had access to advanced technology from past civilizations which they kept to themselves for who knows how long, so we have no idea how long bio weapons have been used on us.

I have just recently come across some info relating to that, which I'd rather not get into here...if you wish, PM me your phone number and I can relate it to you by phone...its quite complicated.

I'm on mountain time.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 13, 2015, 10:10:57 PM
The Program of the Matrix is Crashing

Quote from: Zen the Man
Just look at the desperation we’re witnessing. Crude military and police state
maneuvers are only one aspect. The biggest clue is seeing the previously
incremental and now hyperbolic use of monstrous lies that are becoming so
transparent and unbelievable to just about anyone. Agreed, there are the
entranced apathetics who swallow anything, but we’re witnessing a meltdown
before our eyes.  If you can’t see it, look again.

You Want Proof?

First of all you’re in the wrong mindset if you’re looking only for data or left
brained evidence, although it’s out there for those who can see. When we come
to understand the vibrational workings of our holographic reality everything takes
on new dimensions and opens us up to understanding these more esoteric
notions.

Those with hearts that can see feel this. I say hearts because much of what we
need to grasp or at least track is intuitive. Taking all of the information and dot
connecting and personal spiritual experience together paints very clear pictures,
we just need to trust what we’re seeing and learning. When we explore these
realities we’re sensing we start to notice how they’re manifesting.

Forbidding free speech, shooting civilians with no cause, obvious mega bullshit in
the news, wars with no possible end, deliberate poisoning, starvation and
dumbing down of populations? I mean, c’mon.

Complete article here. (http://www.zengardner.com/matrix-program-crashing/)

Sark-E is feeling the desperation too.
The lies are no longer 'working' as well as they
once did...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on February 14, 2015, 01:00:37 AM
It goes far deeper that that SM...same invitation I gave Sparks applies to you.

Regards...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 14, 2015, 05:12:16 AM
lol. You and your little games.
You issued the challenge.  I came up with a reasonable test.  You chickened out.:
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keep things in context you little dimwit.
So if someone is talking about a game you chickened out of.  I shouldn't change the topic to sentence parsing? :)
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You just like to ASSUME you know others peoples inner thoughts as if you are a fortune teller.
No, I make hypothesis based on incomplete data.  Just like everyone does every day.
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Time after time I keep on telling you that a lawyers language, even though they both speak native language, will not understand each other, hence language barrier. NOT in the native language ITSELF but in the language of defining the terms. How hard is that to understand?
It's just irrelevant. :)
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I already mentioned that millions of dollars are lost by many businesses each year due to the lack being able to communicate with each other
Also irrelevant. :)
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I'm sure you can understand the language barrier when you try to communicate with your girlfriend, they both speak different “languages” sort to speak while they both speak the same language. i.e. men are from mars, women are from Venus. You dumbo.
Being sexist doesn't really help people communicate.

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No shit. Nothing is 100% guaranteed. What we focus on is at least 80-90% positive results.
You won't get that with protective measures either.  A fair number of vaccines do though.
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A vaccine only tries to hep the immune system in the body regarding one strain.
Not a strain, a serotype.   
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Tell me if I get vaccinated from 25 different strains
You get vaccinated with a serotype.  Not a strain.
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of the measles right now, how many other toxic things will I be injected with?
Which things in vaccines do you consider toxic?  Is water toxic?
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it should be mandatory to explain to everyone what they are being injected with the same way as it is MANDATORY to label all food consumer products with a label as to what it is in the product.
Food labels provide information on what is in your food (however not with perfect detail).  Vaccine monographs tell the same thing.  They both are available to the public. You can always ask your doctor for the information before getting vaccinated.
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Do you take the flu shot every year?
Almost.
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PREVENTATIVE measures
Which vaccines are,

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Actually learning about viruses in the sub-molecular level is way better than getting the vaccine BECAUSE the only people that get sick do not know how they work.
Untrue.  People who worked with the American ebola patients knew how viruses work used far greater protective gear than you have described, far more formal procedures than you have described and still only reduced the r0 by half.  So you wouldn't expect the r0 for measles to be any less than 8 with your measures.  Thus you are wrong. :)
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See how I didn't CHOPPED your paragraph. Lol, now explain to me the bold part?
Given a random sample of information Bayesian updating is guaranteed to optimize a problem.
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Your lack of looking at things from different angles is your Achilles heel.
All I'm doing is looking at the angles you are providing.  I just can see that you're full of shit.
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how do you know that vaccinations do not cause long term crippling ailments?
How do you know that not getting vaccinated does not cause long term crippling ailments?
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Remember when I told you that lab animals (where the vaccine is tested and produced) do not LIVE AS LONG AS HUMANS DO! So they can't not no the long term side effects if the lab rat dies before 100 years expectancy.
I've already stated that this is generally not what you use animal models for.
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Give me the link?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=vaccine+monograph
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Source?
Drug monographs, generally provide a list of the studies done to test them for safety and efficacy.
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This is what they do---let me inject this in here. Lets wait. It didn't die, well it must be safe for humans too.
Nope.  Toxicity studies are usually looking for tolerance or sometimes teratogenicity.
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I'm asking you specifit questions smart one.
a) That wasn't a question and b) you're not being very specific.  You can't even differentiate between a strain and a serotype. :)
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I was not referring in to the measles strain being more dangerous to people than the flu virus. I was merely saying that it spreads the same way as the flu virus does.
No you are assuming that every and all mechanisms are identical.  If that was true the r0's would be closer.  They're not so it's reasonable to believe that there are different mechanisms at work.
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Well that's the problem, you don't care what the negative ill affects due to human bodies as long as the virus is “controlled”.
Nope.  Just the opposite.  It's you who don't care about the number of people who are injured just as long as you get to preserve your dogma. :)
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It is better to teach how they get it in the first place
Evidence suggests you are wrong. 
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Understanding how the virus spreads is wayy better than vaccines doofus.
Only if you're stupid...which you are. :)

Sooooo have you officially chickened out from the intellectual challenge. :)  Seems like it. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 14, 2015, 05:23:53 AM
Exercises entered into in order to boost EGO and SELF-IMPORTANCE.
Isn't Joel the person who was boasting about his abilities?  I just said: "Ok, lets play".  Perhaps Joel is, as he claimed superior to me in every intellectual way.  I often take lessons from people who are better at something than I am.  Why would I pass up this opportunity?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 14, 2015, 05:25:24 AM
The Program of the Matrix is Crashing
So is this snippet strong evidence?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 14, 2015, 05:27:39 AM
Isn't Joel the person who was boasting about his abilities?  I just said: "Ok, lets play".  Perhaps Joel is, as he claimed superior to me in every intellectual way.  I often take lessons from people who are better at something than I am.  Why would I pass up this opportunity?

Well said.  I never learned anything from someone who knows less than I do.  I love to learn, therefore, I seek out those that know more than I do. On this website, I learn something new each and every day from many different folks.  Even those sometimes labeled paid shills, ha ha.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 14, 2015, 06:05:08 AM
Quote from: Pirate88179
Well said.  I never learned anything from someone who knows less than I do.  I love to learn, therefore, I seek out those that know more than I do. On this website, I learn something new each and every day from many different folks.  Even those sometimes labeled paid shills, ha ha.

That is generally quite true - in a limited sense.

Even those who are relatively 'unlearned' in that
they possess no certificates of higher learning or
degrees, may know more than we about certain
things.

To think, on the other hand, that we can only learn
from those who are highly 'educated' or who possess
'letters' would be an erroneous thought.

Some of the 'smartest' people I've ever known had
little formal education.  In some parts of the World
institutional formal education is not readily available.

I will be forever grateful to the U.S. Navy for providing
the opportunities to travel far and wide throughout
the Western Pacific countries for two decades.  The
perception that Americans are superior to Asians in
every facet (or even any facets) of life is a gross
misconception.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 14, 2015, 06:13:26 AM
Quote from: Sar-Ke-Izen
So is this snippet strong evidence?

For those who "have a heart that can see"
it surely is.  Love of Truth is a condition which
strengthens the ability of the heart to see.

Love of Money, in contrast, destroys heart.
 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on February 14, 2015, 06:54:46 AM
For those who "have a heart that can see"
it surely is.  Love of Truth is a condition which
strengthens the ability of the heart to see.

Love of Money, in contrast, destroys heart.

There is no love of money. The problem is that humans have evolved to build hierarchical societies and that there is no natural mechanism to feel saturated of money. You can only eat so much but you can't get sick of too many digits on your bank account.

The only cure is to tax and redistribute the income based on capital gains.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 14, 2015, 06:56:16 AM
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Sooooo have you officially chickened out from the intellectual challenge. Seems like it.

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You issued the challenge.  I came up with a reasonable test.  You chickened out.:

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Now you're outright ignoring my requests for a game.  Loser!

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So another post without mention of my intellectual contest...hmmmmmmm.....does that mean you forfeit?

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So about that game...or are you using all these dodges to try and teach yourself.

etc etc...

Look at this guy all stuck in this game. Lol. I would wonder what would happen if I beat him really bad at that game? Lol

As if the winner will erase the facts of reality! Lol only thing that means is this guy is living in a fantasy!  Hey, go ahead, but don't try to teach me true facts lol!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 14, 2015, 07:25:04 AM
Quote
Well said.  I never learned anything from someone who knows less than I do.  I love to learn, therefore, I seek out those that know more than I do. On this website, I learn something new each and every day from many different folks.  Even those sometimes labeled paid shills, ha ha.

What have you learned from sarkeizen?

Give me a graph, give me a few words, the truth is bound to come out lol.

I really don't want to insult because I'm crazy myself. I just understand who made me crazy and who made me more intellectual.

So, pirate88179, what has sarkeizen has taught you over the years? Maybe I need to learn that myself too.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 14, 2015, 07:47:48 AM
What have you learned from sarkeizen?

Give me a graph, give me a few words, the truth is bound to come out lol.

I really don't want to insult because I'm crazy myself. I just understand who made me crazy and who made me more intellectual.

So, pirate88179, what has sarkeizen has taught you over the years? Maybe I need to learn that myself too.

I was speaking generally not specifically.  But, it is obvious that Sark knows more about vaccines than I do...so I have learned from him.  I might have even learned a thing or two from you Joel.  Imagine that?  Knowledge is everywhere, you just have to absorb it.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 14, 2015, 08:07:20 AM
Quote
I was speaking generally not specifically.  But, it is obvious that Sark knows more about vaccines than I do...so I have learned from him.  I might have even learned a thing or two from you Joel.  Imagine that?  Knowledge is everywhere, you just have to absorb it.

Well yeah I understand. BUT when do we start being teachers? We can't just be learning forever if we can't never become teachers!

Hell, everything I know is from TEACHERS! So I know for a fact that everything I know I learned from someone else, that is why I am gratefull for the teachings and I don't put myself in the all MIGHTY INTELLIGENT PERSON. Because I know someone else is ahead of me and I want to learn their teachings!

I don't like learning because it will make me live 100 years, I love learning because I like it. That is my pleasure, to learn the phenomena! The perks of learning the phenomena is thaqt it makes you live longer. The bad side is that you struggle to teach the ignorant due to the brain washed media!

Ok, getting back on point, what have you learned from sark about vaccinations?

What have you learned about JB welding a fan dishwasher motor? lol

The learning part is before 20 years old or so, then the teaching part comes in to play. we just can't just keep on learning on forever since the only REASON we learn is to teach the others. You are learning to teach! you are not learning to learn for ever! IMO (in my opinion).

What has sark tough you that you understand (have learned from him for benefit)?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 14, 2015, 03:45:50 PM
Look at this guy all stuck in this game. Lol. I would wonder what would happen if I beat him really bad at that game?
I'd learn something.  However you seem too afraid to learn anything.

You can't even get over your enormous ego to learn that "strain" isn't the same as "serotype" and that we vaccinate against a serotype not a strain.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 14, 2015, 03:49:07 PM
For those who "have a heart that can see" it surely is.  Love of Truth is a condition which strengthens the ability of the heart to see.
So according to you, counting more objective evidence as considerably stronger than your own personal feelings about things is not more likely to help you get to the truth.  I'm not sure why people need to come up with creative ways like the ones you mention in order to remain ignorant but that seems to be your deal.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 14, 2015, 03:59:04 PM
That is my pleasure, to learn the phenomena!
Again what evidence is there of this statement?  Or that you love to learn anything?  You refuse to put forward a cogent argument. You still refuse to distinguish between a serotype and a strain.   You readily unconditionally accept anecdotes  which feed your own prejudices.  i.e. If someone got sick months after getting a vaccine it is 100% true facts that the vaccine caused their illness.

There has been almost nowhere where you show even slight skepticism over your views.  So many things are: "True facts" or "100% True" or "100% True facts".  Those aren't the words of someone who would ever consider themselves even slightly wrong. 

Perhaps you need a Big Graphic in order to understand...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 14, 2015, 04:52:22 PM
Quote from: orbut 3000
...
The only cure is to tax and redistribute the income based on capital gains.

Taxation by a central 'authority' produces piles
of money which are too much of a temptation
for those afflicted with the Love of Money Disease.

Those 'privileged' few who impose and collect the
tax in turn take for themselves all that they want
and leave what little remains to be distributed.

Love of Money Corruption destroys every good plan.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 15, 2015, 08:39:23 AM
Quote
You still refuse to distinguish between a serotype and a strain. 

Meh! Let me guess a gene inside a virus?

It is plain obvious that you are trying to fight a virus that you don't understand yet. Go ahead and seek that knowledge but at the same time I can understand that the only reason you are trying to study a virus is because it gets inside your body! When I already know how it enters the body!!! if I teach people how it enters the body (teach how to prevent the infection), then you don't need to waste your time trying to understand the virus because it's a loosing battle.

Like a person knocking at my door. If I don't want to allow a person come inside my house I know not to open the door.

The same with viruses, if I'm educated enough to know how they enter the body, I don't have to waste my time trying to study the virus how it lives!

Having said that, explain to me how you understand the serotype of the flu virus? Remember you are teaching me, I'm not teaching you. Also remember, there are more than one ways to attack/solve a problem. 

Serotype = genes inside a virus.

Strain = a virus type.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 15, 2015, 06:42:46 PM
If you, after boasting and boasting and boasting and boasting about your ability to do any intellectual task I can do find yourself unable to play a simple game with me.  Then all you have to do is say so. :)
Meh! Let me guess a gene inside a virus?
No.  I've already explained this in a post that you never read because you are too wrapped up in your own ideas to ever consider them incorrect.
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It is plain obvious that you are trying to fight a virus that you don't understand yet.
It's awesome how frequently you are wrong and how hard you try never to admit it.  The only thing I'm fighting is your ignorance.
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if I teach people how it enters the body (teach how to prevent the infection), then you don't need to waste your time trying to understand the virus because it's a loosing battle.
As we know from experience with ID control in the ebola outbreak.  Teaching is not as good as immunity.  So when you have an opportunity to become immune all the protective measures are simply inferior.
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Like a person knocking at my door. If I don't want to allow a person come inside my house I know not to open the door.
However a) you are infectious even when you don't know you are sick b) viruses still get through your door when it's closed c) people - no matter how educated are not as good at closing the door than being immune to whatever comes through.

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Having said that, explain to me how you understand the serotype of the flu virus?
"How you understand" requires a subordinate clause in English.  "How do you understand the train?" isn't a well-formed sentence.  You need to ask: "How do you understand how a train moves?".   
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Remember you are teaching me
No I'm refuting the stupid that happens to come out of your mouth.  "Teaching" would requires someone who can be wrong.  You can't no matter how many times you are. :)
Quote
Serotype = genes inside a virus.
Not in any useful sense of the term. :)
Quote
Strain = a virus type.
No.  A rhinovirus is a type of virus but is not a strain.

You're not going to learn anything until you can start saying that you were "100% wrong" about something.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 16, 2015, 01:49:32 AM
The long-awaited definitive research paper has
finally become available!  Those who are wondering
how the Establishment Loving Propaganda Regurgitators,
who make their presence known in forums such as this
one, came to be - this article will demonstrate how easily
it has been accomplished on a grand scale.
 (http://www.tomatobubble.com/libtards.html)
In a manner of speaking - they're everywhere!

Fortunately, many of them are in fact 'waking up' to their
deluded state of mind...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 16, 2015, 03:46:16 AM
The long-awaited definitive research paper has finally become available!
The most liberal thing to be found in any of that is SeaMonkey's use of the term "research paper"...or even just "research". :)

Also here's a choice quote...

Quote from: Someone paradoxically Sea Monkey thinks is worth listening to
Should you press the issue with facts and hard data
Can anyone actually point to any point, anywhere in this thread where Sea Monkey, Cap-Mo-Ron, Joel-bunchofnumbers or allcanadian actually do this.  Well supported, properly used hard data isn't really something Sea Monkey is interested in.  His last post seemed to imply that people who are looking for hard data are mistaken. 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 16, 2015, 04:08:50 AM
Quote from: Sar-Ke-Izzzzzen
...seemed to imply that people who are looking for hard data are mistaken.

As in fact they may be!  It is entirely dependent
upon the motive of the people who are looking. :o ::)

Ulterior perhaps? ;) ???
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 16, 2015, 04:25:22 AM
As in fact they may be!
Actually the post seemed to state that there was something intrinsically wrong with prioritizing hard data over personal feelings on some subject.  Your response is so off-base it's almost like you don't read your own propaganda. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 16, 2015, 11:26:00 AM
lol hey seamonkey...bill gates got rich by luck. You could say he is not a bully and is one of the riches nerds in the world.

Even you looking at these parts of the psychological of a person is way smart. That sarkeizen guy is not even that smart.

Personally, I think he has more mental issues than I do.

Maybe we need to keep on asking him questions till he feels really stupid that one day he will awake up and realize that he is just living a lie. Lol

personally, I would like to interview his mom and dad and ask them what they believe where viruses come from. For some reason I can picture sark throw a tantrum and say, 'mom, dad, I told you what to say whe you are asked those questions' while he stomps away to his bed room.

Google has been bor of a teacher than this asian guy  of sark lol.

I'm really curious now what he does for a living in the medical field. I don't picture him as a doctor, more like a male nurse...lol
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 16, 2015, 04:13:51 PM
So again, you're not going to play a game against me that is easy to learn?  You did say that you would. :)
Why is it so hard just to say: "Hey I don't think I can do this" or "Ok let's play" and post an account name.
Do you not understand the rules?  Do you need some help?

That sarkeizen guy is not even that smart.
I've never stated that I am smart.  I just think you're stupid. :)
Quote
Maybe we need to keep on asking him questions till he feels really stupid
Well if those questions can't differentiate between a strain and a serotype or assume that someone who got sick months after vaccination is 100% likely to have their illness caused by vaccination.  Then I guarantee questions like that won't make anyone feel stupid. :)
Quote
personally, I would like to interview his mom and dad and ask them what they believe where viruses come from. For some reason I can picture sark throw a tantrum and say, 'mom, dad, I told you what to say whe you are asked those questions' while he stomps away to his bed room.
I'm sure my parents wouldn't understand the question.
Quote
Google has been bor of a teacher than this asian guy  of sark lol.
Teaching requires someone who is capable of thinking they are wrong or at least admitting they know nothing.  That is not you.  Reinforcing your own prejudices with articles written by people who don't understand virology isn't learning. :) 

...also why do you think I'm asian?
Quote
I'm really curious now what he does for a living in the medical field.
I'm sure I've mentioned my job.   I think most people with a clue can guess correctly.
Quote
I don't picture him as a doctor, more like a male nurse...lol
Well a) the nurses of the world probably wouldn't appreciate that implied derogatory remark.  You've already shown no respect for people who have OCD or AD/HD and b) I guess you have no clue. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: kEhYo77 on February 16, 2015, 07:23:52 PM
Why bother "protecting" yourself with LIVE! viruses plus a load of toxins
when one can easily cure practically ANY viral disease with a high dose of Vitamin C?!?

Dr Thomas Levy: Vitamin C & The Great Supression (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1kD3BolXnE)

And here is how to make DIY oxidized form of Vitamin C - DHAA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHKBhz7OCB4)

Low dose - VERY high absorption rate - easy to prepare and store - PATENT PENDING

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 16, 2015, 10:29:45 PM
Why bother "protecting" yourself with LIVE! viruses
Most vaccines do not contain live viruses.  Those that do are attenuated.
Quote
plus a load of toxins
You mean like water?  Water is in vaccines.  It's toxic too.
Quote
when one can easily cure practically ANY viral disease with a high dose of Vitamin C?!?
a) This particular case was about high-dose IV which is different than ingesting ascorbic acid. There are several mechanisms which limit your absorption of ascorbic acid.  Which means you waste most of it. b) Instead of blindly swallowing what internet videos say.  You should see if they tell you at what concentration does ascorbic acid exhibit anti-microbial effects and exactly how that is getting delivered.

Anything that doesn't tell you these two things is either lying to you or ignorant to the point that they might as well be.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 17, 2015, 04:54:42 AM
Quote from: kEhYo77
...
And here is how to make DIY oxidized form of Vitamin C - DHAA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHKBhz7OCB4)

Low dose - VERY high absorption rate - easy to prepare and store - PATENT PENDING

Excellent video.  Natural enzyme organic catalysis is
always fascinating.  I just happen to have some
AA (USP) on hand to try this out.  License fee is very
reasonable too!

Knowledge is a wonderful thing!

One must wonder if a small amount of 3% Food Grade
Hydrogen Peroxide would assist and speed up the
Oxidation?  Or would it be too reactive?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 17, 2015, 01:59:18 PM
Natural enzyme organic catalysis is always fascinating.
Protip: Don't take a word that has a kind of mundane meaning and suffix it with "is always fascinating".   The normal English usage would imply that you spend a considerable amount of time studying this specific thing.   Considering that catalysis is such an elementary thing in biochemistry - enough that it doesn't even merit it's own field.  This comes off as either pretentious or ignorant.  Consider the sentence "SeaMonkey always finds lug nut bolts fascinating" and you'll understand what you sound like.
Quote
Knowledge is a wonderful thing!
All sorts of trials have been done on AA and rhinoviruses  and cancer (less so on IV AA) they have all come up negative or so low effect you would naturally consider them to be useless.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 17, 2015, 09:13:44 PM
The Top Six Reasons Why Parents Are Choosing Not
to Vaccinate Their Children. (http://www.healthfreedoms.org/the-top-6-reasons-why-parents-are-choosing-not-to-vaccinate-their-kids/)

Quote from: Above Linked Article
More and more parents around the globe are choosing to opt out of vaccinating themselves and their children. As a result of this trend that’s been gaining more and more momentum, a harsh response has come from the “pro-vaccine” community -criticizing parents for their decision to not vaccinate. At the end of the day it’s not really about “pro-vaccination” or “anti-vaccination,” it’s not one “against” the other or about pointing fingers and judgement, it’s simply about looking at all of the information from a neutral standpoint. It’s about Asking questions and communicating so people can make the best possible decisions for themselves and their children. Parents love their kids and the vaccine “controversy” has made it difficult for many parents to know what to do.

Parents who are choosing not to vaccinate their children are not just doing it based on belief, they are doing it based on science and information, some of which will be presented in this article. This science and information is nowhere near emphasized to the point where the science and information on the other side of the coin is (“pro vaccine”). Parents who choose not to vaccinate themselves or their children are clearly intelligent, and they should not be made to look like fools. On the other hand, parents who are choosing to vaccinate their children are also intelligent. Those who choose to vaccinate should not be made out to be the ones who have made the “right” decision when there is evidence on both sides of the coin that clearly shows parents who are not vaccinating their children could also be making the “right” decision.

I’d also like to state that there are multiple vaccines, some may be safe, some may not be. There are also criticisms of all the studies mentioned, as well as bias. That being said, all of the studies in this article, with the exception of one or two, have been published in credible peer-reviewed scientific journals. That should not take away from the important work of many independent scientists from all over the world.
...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 17, 2015, 09:58:03 PM
The Top Six Reasons Why Parents Are Choosing Not
to Vaccinate Their Children. (http://www.healthfreedoms.org/the-top-6-reasons-why-parents-are-choosing-not-to-vaccinate-their-kids/)
Why didn't you quote some of the "science" from the article?  Or was the assertion the most compelling reason? or is the article just all assertion?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 17, 2015, 10:18:55 PM
Quote from: Sar-Ke-Izzzzen
Why didn't you quote some of the "science" from the article?  Or was the assertion the most compelling reason? or is the article just all assertion?

Those who are inclined to study the matter further
are free to digest the article with each link to amplifying
data.  Freedom of choice is a wonderful thing! 8) :) ;)

After intelligently reviewing material from both sides
of the question they may then, in the privacy of their
own minds, choose how they wish to proceed. ;D :) ;)

Our wish is that all become as well informed as they
are able in order to do what is best for themselves and
those in their care.  Knowledge is a wonderful thing! ::) 8) ;D

Unlike The Establishment, we make no demands. ::) :o
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 17, 2015, 10:36:17 PM
Our wish is that all become as well informed as they are able in order to do what is best for themselves and
those in their care.
Actually no, as what you usually post is well within most definitions of propaganda and as you have already admitted that posting propaganda makes people more stupid.  So what you wish and what you are accomplishing are opposites. :)
Quote
Unlike The Establishment, we make no demands
As already demonstrated.  You do make demands.  Huge ones.  You demand that in order to be treated like a rational person people have to conform to your views.  :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 18, 2015, 12:59:11 AM
How Programs of Mass Vaccination are used to
advance the AGENDA. (http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/mass-sterilization-kenyan-doctors-find-anti-fertility-agent-in-un-tetanus-vaccine-2/)

It is difficult to comprehend how insane those
who are manipulating the levers of control
truly are.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 18, 2015, 07:03:38 AM
How Programs of Mass Vaccination are used to
advance the AGENDA. (http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/mass-sterilization-kenyan-doctors-find-anti-fertility-agent-in-un-tetanus-vaccine-2/)
Looks like we've reached the end of the SeaMonkey propaganda tape and it's now looping back to the beginning.
Mass Sterilization effort in Kenya (http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/mass-sterilization-kenyan-doctors-find-anti-fertility-agent-in-un-tetanus-vaccine/).
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on February 18, 2015, 09:35:01 AM
Looks like we've reached the end of the SeaMonkey propaganda tape and it's now looping back to the beginning.
Jeez, some people really don't ever learn.  That tetanus vaccination as a front for sterilization BS was debunked back in December when Sea Monkey posted it.  Did SM forget that when samples were sent to labs properly set-up to look for HCG the detected concentrations were lower than the ultrapure sterile water used by the labs to clean their glassware?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 18, 2015, 10:28:16 PM
How the Vaccine Industry Lost the Propaganda
War. (http://www.naturalnews.com/048665_vaccine_propaganda_public_suspicion_medical_profession.html)

Quote from: Above Linked Article
Under the iron fist of corporate-run vaccine fanaticism, the questioning of medical dogma cannot be allowed. So the strategy remains one of "reality control" by attempting to aggressively manipulate all the information the public sees and hears about vaccines in order to construct a false reality that only the more illiterate members of public really believe.


A blatant violation of A.M.A. code of ethics


This very tactic is, according to the American Medical Association, a gross violation of fundamental medical ethics.


"Informed consent is a basic policy in both ethics and law that physicians must honor," the A.M.A. says on its Code of Ethics page (http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/physician-resources/medical-ethics/code-medical-ethics/opinion808.page).


This statement is also found in the AMA's published book, Code of Medical Ethics, on the bottom half of page 269.



It goes on to explain:

The patient's right of self-decision can be effectively exercised only if the patient possesses enough information to enable an informed choice. The patient should make his or her own determination about treatment. The physician's obligation is to present the medical facts accurately to the patient or to the individual responsible for the patient's care and to make recommendations for management in accordance with good medical practice.



The vaccine industry, however, cannot achieve obedient compliance if it allows patients to be fully informed. Informed consent, it turns out, is the enemy of vaccine propaganda which stands as the world's most outrageous example of distorted, one-sided medical propaganda waged as a psychological warfare operation against the American people.

Full Article (http://www.naturalnews.com/048665_vaccine_propaganda_public_suspicion_medical_profession.html)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 18, 2015, 10:41:41 PM
U.S. Congress Moves to Step Up Vaccine Enforcement (http://www.anh-usa.org/congress-moves-to-step-up-vaccine-enforcement/)


California Delegation to Congress Proposes Bill to Eliminate
All Vaccine Exemptions (http://www.naturalblaze.com/2015/02/federal-bill-announced-to-eliminate-all.html)


Petition to Prohibit Any Laws Which Mandate Force and
Requirement of Vaccinations. (https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/prohibit-any-laws-mandating-force-and-requirement-vaccinations-any-kind/HW1B3YKz)


 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 18, 2015, 10:56:54 PM
Under the iron fist of corporate-run vaccine fanaticism, the questioning of medical dogma cannot be allowed
Considering that SeaMonkey doesn't read his own propaganda I'm not sure why I should but let's take just this one snippet shall we?

See if that were true.  Nobody would have run studies on thimerosol.  Having been used for ~85 years in vaccines alone it's only real claim to fame was in the post-Wakefield MMR hoopla.  Yet a simple search through medical databases yields about 1500 studies on that subject.  170 of them reference autism. 

So if nobody is allowed to question anything at all.  Why would the scary shadow government event let these studies happen?  If the hallmark of propaganda is closed studies with little or no transparency.  The place where you easily find that is in the conspiracy theorists.  Right?  You yourself claimed some hidden Navy study about flu vaccine effectiveness?  Right? ...and could you provide any information about sample size, methodology or control for confounders?  Nope.  You just said: "Here is the result.  Believe it!".

If anything it's people like you who behave more like the Big Pharma boogeyman you keep telling us about. :)

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 18, 2015, 11:17:04 PM
Measles Vaccine and Autism (http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/DavidBrownsteinMD/vaccine-measles-CDC-autism/2015/02/17/id/625285/?ns_mail_uid=6604460&ns_mail_job=1609117_02182015&s=al&dkt_nbr=cbzsigyn)

Quote from: Dr. Brownstein from Article
I have written about the problems with the measles/mumps/rubella (MMR) vaccine in the past, including mention of research by Dr. Andrew Wakefield that found the measles virus in the lymph tissue of 12 autistic children.   Those children never developed measles, but they did get the measles vaccine.

Dr. Wakefield thought that vaccines could be causing the gut inflammation that most autistic kids suffer. For that crime — criticizing a vaccine — he was vilified by the media and the medical profession.

Later, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) altered a 2004 study, hiding data that supported Dr. Wakefield’s research.

A whistleblower — who was an author on that 2004 paper — came forward last year to say that the paper was a fraud; the CDC hid data that showed a clear link between the early administration of the MMR vaccine and autism.

Furthermore, the MMR vaccine is known to cause shedding — a process by which the recipient excretes the measles virus in bodily fluids after it is administered.
...

Full Article (http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/DavidBrownsteinMD/vaccine-measles-CDC-autism/2015/02/17/id/625285/?ns_mail_uid=6604460&ns_mail_job=1609117_02182015&s=al&dkt_nbr=cbzsigyn)

The Moral of the Story:  Studies can be and  often are
faked.  Deliberately altered to conform to an AGENDA.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 19, 2015, 12:39:35 AM
The Moral of the Story:  Studies can be and  often are faked.
Can I ask you a few questions?  I promise they're easy.
Have you read the Wakefield paper from the Lancet?  The answer is probably "no".
Have you read Hooker's paper from  Translational Neurodegeneration?  The answer is probably also "no".
Have you read the DeStefano paper from Pediatrics.  Again the answer is probably "no".

See no problem.  Now I want you answer a slightly harder question:

Which of those papers do you think David Brownstein, M.D. has read and why?

Notice how you can't answer that?  That you have this urge to change the subject.  Perhaps post another already debunked anti-vaccine claim from years ago?  Or maybe put on that dime-store mystic persona?

As someone who's read all three of those papers I have a pretty good answer to that question.  Let me know if you ever get around to reading actual papers.  I won't hold my breath. :)

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on February 19, 2015, 12:52:59 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2XKRanrz28 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2XKRanrz28)
B.t.w. I don't agree with Dr. Wakefield, I am strongly against vaccinations of all kinds because of what they have done to my children, I almost lost one.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 19, 2015, 01:08:53 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2XKRanrz28 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2XKRanrz28)
B.t.w. I don't agree with Dr. Wakefield, I am strongly against vaccinations of all kinds because of what they have done to my children, I almost lost one.

Sorry about your children also I generally don't watch videos.  If there are some strong bits of evidence you'd like to highlight I'd be happy to respond to them.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on February 19, 2015, 01:25:57 AM
Sorry about your children also I generally don't watch videos.  If there are some strong bits of evidence you'd like to highlight I'd be happy to respond to them.

Nah, I just wanted you people to look at the Youtube movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2XKRanrz28
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 19, 2015, 02:47:04 AM
Nah, I just wanted you people to look at the Youtube movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2XKRanrz28
Good luck with that.  Videos are kind of a waste of time when you can read 800 wpm.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on February 19, 2015, 03:21:24 AM
Good luck with that.  Videos are kind of a waste of time when you can read 800 wpm.

Nope they are not.
Please do watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2XKRanrz28

And another one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ8DkeabDKc
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 19, 2015, 03:52:20 AM
Nope they are not.
Average video imparts information at 145 WPM.  So I could read five video scripts in the time that I could watch one.  I could probably do medline lookups on at least two or three in the same time and probably skim the published work on at least one.  So yes watching a person make claims about something is vastly inferior to having a reasonable understanding of the topic.  Which is why videos are a waste of time.

If you can tell me a few points which are really strong arguments.  Then I'd be happy to respond.  Otherwise I'd suspect that rather than see something interesting I'd hear an argument that isn't very good or realize that you're not very smart.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on February 19, 2015, 04:15:38 AM
Average video imparts information at 145 WPM.  So I could read five video scripts in the time that I could watch one.  I could probably do medline lookups on at least two or three in the same time and probably skim the published work on at least one.  So yes watching a person make claims about something is vastly inferior to having a reasonable understanding of the topic.  Which is why videos are a waste of time.
Funny you say you have no time to watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2XKRanrz28 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2XKRanrz28) because it's a waste of time while you respond 3 hours later.
You could have seen the movie by now.
If you can tell me a few points which are really strong arguments.  Then I'd be happy to respond.  Otherwise I'd suspect that rather than see something interesting I'd hear an argument that isn't very good or realize that you're not very smart.
I am smart enough to see that you are here for arguments and not for serious research.
I feel sorry for your children and grandchildren.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 19, 2015, 05:18:23 AM
Funny you say you have no time to watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2XKRanrz28 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2XKRanrz28) because it's a waste of time while you respond 3 hours later.
You could have seen the movie by now.
I was actually doing work in that interval.  If that's alright with you.
Quote
I am smart enough to see that you are here for arguments and not for serious research.
It's simple.  Either you understand what evidence supports your position or you don't.  If you do, then why do I have to watch a video?  If you don't why would I care about what you believe?  If you are right - about something - it would only be by accident.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on February 19, 2015, 05:46:16 AM
It's simple.  Either you understand what evidence supports your position or you don't.  If you do, then why do I have to watch a video?  If you don't why would I care about what you believe?  If you are right - about something - it would only be by accident.
... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

For others: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2XKRanrz28
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 19, 2015, 07:47:32 AM
Quote from: Sar-Ke-Izzzzzzen
Average video imparts information at 145 WPM.  So I could read five video scripts in the time that I could watch one.  I could probably do medline lookups on at least two or three in the same time and probably skim the published work on at least one.  So yes watching a person make claims about something is vastly inferior to having a reasonable understanding of the topic.  Which is why videos are a waste of time.

If you can tell me a few points which are really strong arguments.  Then I'd be happy to respond.  Otherwise I'd suspect that rather than see something interesting I'd hear an argument that isn't very good or realize that you're not very smart.

Sark-ezzzz's feeble attempt above to justify his
fear of considering any 'input' which could possibly
destroy his AGENDA-driven caricature is just that:
Lame.
 ::) :(

What are you afraid of Sar-kezzzzzz?  Afraid that some
little bit of TRUTH might penetrate your carefully
guarded barriers and cause you to begin thinking
critically?
??? ;)

Your non-time-wasting EGO is beginning to show its
supremacist face and proclivities. :'( :-X :P

Unsurprising.  Evidence was profusely extant which proved
(established) it was in there. ;D ;) :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 19, 2015, 01:42:55 PM
For others: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2XKRanrz28
The offer is, as ever open.  Put forth a strong argument (preferably the strongest most compelling argument) from one of these videos here and I'll be happy to respond.  Otherwise don't waste peoples time.
What are you afraid of Sar-kezzzzzz?  Afraid that some little bit of TRUTH might penetrate your carefully guarded barriers and cause you to begin thinking critically? ??? ;)
If that were true.  Then why would I invite and encourage people to provide the strongest bits of evidence from those very same videos right here?  Is your claim that I'm somehow afraid of *weak* evidence? LOL.

I guess I really got your goat about your Wakefield post. :)  It's your own fault for  mentioning actual studies.  Stick to broad generalizations and baseless assertions - that's where your strengths are. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 20, 2015, 02:26:30 AM
94.7% of all people that died last year used Ketchup some time in their lives.  We need to ban Ketchup now to stop these senseless deaths.

This is exactly the false association that some people make that Sark is trying to point out here.  Those folks probably also used mustard, rode a bus at least once, drank water (Oh my God) had relations with a lover, (Have to ban that) laughed...etc...etc.

I appreciate his wanting to discuss REAL and PROVEN facts and studies.  Some folks do have an agenda...the anti-Ketchup folks certainly do and would use the above numbers to advance their movement.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on February 20, 2015, 02:44:01 AM
Well, there IS an agenda. You just have to connect the dots.
Example:
1. Biking causes impotency (see Daily Mail)
2. Agenda 21 promotes bike lanes.
Conclusion: Agenda 21 (U.N.) wants to kill you.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 20, 2015, 03:11:46 AM
Well, there IS an agenda. You just have to connect the dots.
Example:
1. Biking causes impotency (see Daily Mail)
2. Agenda 21 promotes bike lanes.
Conclusion: Agenda 21 (U.N.) wants to kill you.

Exactly.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 20, 2015, 03:59:57 AM
I appreciate his wanting to discuss REAL and PROVEN facts and studies.  Some folks do have an agenda...the anti-Ketchup folks certainly do and would use the above numbers to advance their movement.
Here's an example of something that is suspicious of an agenda.  Andrew Wakefield his paper: "Ileal-lymphoid-nodular hyperplasia, non-specific colitis, and pervasive developmental disorder in children" is a pretty interesting beast.  From the printed article - the background, methods, findings, patients and investigation sections - the whole first page - do not mention MMR or vaccination AT ALL.  The first time any of these show up is suddenly in Table 1 on page 2.   Which is weird because if the INTENT of the paper was to investigate this connection it has to be stated in those sections. The alternative is that the correlation was discovered accidentally.  However this is virtually impossible for two reasons - one is they very clearly asked the question about the time of the MMR vaccination from every patient.  You can see this because the authors note the even on the two children who's parents didn't think MMR had anything to do with their child's condition.  The second is that Andrew was being paid legal aid to consult in a case where parents were considering suing with a claim that MMR caused autism in their children.  To the tune of somewhere between 50,000 and 400,000 pounds.

Finally the closing paragraph of the paper is odd "We have identified a chronic enterocolitis in children that may be related to neuropsychiatric dysfunction. In most cases, onset of symptoms was after measles, mumps, and rubella immunisation. Further investigations are needed to examine this syndrome and its possible relation to this vaccine"

If you randomly select 10 people from a population and find that three of them are wearing blue watches.  You could say that there is evidence that 30% of this population wear blue watches.  However if you walk down the street and stop the first ten blue watch wearers you see and ask them their political leanings and find out most of them are democrats.  You can't say that most blue watch wearers are democrats.  Why?  Your sample wasn't random so there could be any number of things biasing it - in fact the street you are walking down probably contributes more to that result than the color of peoples watches.

However this is exactly what Wakefield did.  He took twelve cases which had been referred by a GE chosen both for having severe developmental delay and lower GI trouble.   Ten of those cases had parents who associated MMR with the onset of their child's developmental condition.  Given that your sample is a) non-random and b) incredibly small and c) very likely to be confounded with the age at which parents first start to notice neuro-atypical behavior.   Even a first-year statistics student would know enough to write this kind of thing off as selection bias. So why is it mentioned in the authors final summation?

It's also worth noting that not one calculation is made concerning MMR and either some kind of developmental delay or enterocolitis.  Nothing telling you how the information they took from these twelve patients tells you something about the RISKS inherent in getting the MMR.  Wonder why?  Well to calculate your RR (relative risk) you need four things:

i) The number of people who both had the exposure and developed the condition
ii) The number of people who had the exposure but did not develop the condition
iii) The number of people who did not have the exposure but did develop the condition
iv) The number of people who neither had the exposure nor developed the disease

Prior to 1998 uptake of MMR was about 93% - the number of people who had exposure but did not develop the condition would have been huge that the RR would have been three or four decimal places.

So again why mention this thing that you did not design your study to measure, from a super small non-random sample which is known to be co-morbid with other factors which you know can't be expressed as any kind of risk...and you just-so-happen to be getting paid very, very well to advise some people on.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 20, 2015, 05:57:36 AM
Is the Polio Vaccine Causing Cancer? (http://henrymakow.com/2015/02/is-polio-vaccine-causing-cancer.html)

Quote from: Article Excerpt
"It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of The New England Journal of Medicine."

--Marcia Angell, MD

("Drug Companies and Doctors: A story of Corruption." NY Review of Books, Jan. 15, 2009.)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 20, 2015, 07:33:34 AM
Another thing that medicinal pills cause is depression and the lack to concentrate and other ill affects. I've read/seen time after time people that are having “problems” like ADD, anxiety, OCD, and who knows what else is considered as a “disorder”, have very severe problems with medication/pills.

The reason that happens is because of how the body works. And I find it ironic that the cause of the greater severity is due to the pills themselves. Allow me to explain and anyone can do these test to verify. The immune system is built to eventually get immunity from viral invaders over the long run. The pills affect eventually wears out due to the immunity itself. So what happens? The patient will need bigger doses of the pill to take the same effect as the first dose. Then after a while the patient becomes confused and very desperate. The doctor prescribes more pills to get the same effect (like drug addicts) as the first dose did.

ADD with pills becomes worse.
OCD with pills becomes worse.
Anxiety with pills becomes worse.
etc, etc

It is kind of ironic that pills are trying to cure a 'disorder' that is cause by behavioral learning. Think about it, if pills worked as described, everyone would be healthy!! like diet pills! Right?

There is so much garbage in the medical drug industry that those that believe in it 100% are not taking medication themselves. This also applies to the vaccinations too.

Those that find the truth are the ones that have first hand experience and those that actually use their brain to figure things out.

The only reason that plagues happen is because the people did not know that throwing trash in the streets was harmful. Eating not fully cooked meat was harmful. Allowing flies (or any other bugs) lay eggs on their meat is harmful. The list goes on and on. Being dirty and ignorant about how viruses spread is how plagues start. That is the only reason.

The only ORIGIN of plagues are from the filth. In a clean place following the understanding of how the virus spreads, some may get sick but there WILL NEVER BE A PLAGUE. This is why I understand that there will never be any kind of plague in the USA as it is UNLESS, the water gets filthy. The streets get filthy. The air gets filthy BUT as it stands, there are only going to be few casualties cause nothing is 100%.

I kind of see that there are more casualties regarding medicine now than any type of deadly virus in the USA, or in any modern places.

The measles! The flu! “ADD!” “OCD!” etc, please. I just read that kids kill many parents in the USA by accident with guns. If a parent does not know the safety of a gun, how in the world can they know the safety of vaccines or for that matter pills/vaccines.  ::) How about the health of their body. 70% overweight  ring any bells? they would say they are "born to be genetically chubby" = what else can they say? By that same token, how are they even knowledgeable about other health precautions? ::)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 20, 2015, 07:56:38 AM
Doctor Russell Blaylock talks about:

How Vaccines Harm Child Brain Development (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QBcMYqlaDs).

Extremely informative.  Definitely a must watch.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 20, 2015, 09:40:35 AM
Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QBcMYqlaDs

I already asked that dumb ass of sark, on what animals do they test the vaccines and how can they know the long term ill affects on a human when the animal being tested on does not live as a long a human.

That guy has never mentioned any proof of his blabbering, he just likes to be egotistical. To be honest, thats kind of passive aggressive ignorance. That guy has ZERO intelligence....don't get intimidated by him at all....he is garbage to me.

NOTHING that comes out of his mouth is even smart. like ZERO...he is just here trying to bully people to feed his ignorance. YEAH, some medicine works, but does not mean that medicine is the answer to LIFE! which is pretty simple to understand but this guy just wants to vaccinate and drug up all animals...what kind of shit is that?

Ask the guy how the fuck can he know LONG TERN ILL EFFECTs DUE TO ANY DRUGS when they don't tests on humans? well i will bet you $1000 dollars he does not know...just watch for his response. Watch!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 20, 2015, 09:58:27 AM
Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QBcMYqlaDs

21:20 "the majority of vaccines are made in china." now go ahead and ask sark, where the vaccines are made? I'm certain he does not know since his ONLY mentality is + vaccines are 100% safe! He/she/it does not care where they come from or REGULATE them, his/her/it only importance is that they are 100% true life! lol what an idiot! It gets tiring after a while debating with him and he should be brought to light as how ignorant he is.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 20, 2015, 03:38:44 PM
So what no more claims that I'm somehow afraid of evidence?  Even though I ask - repeatedly - for it to be posted? :)
Is the Polio Vaccine Causing Cancer? (http://henrymakow.com/2015/02/is-polio-vaccine-causing-cancer.html)
No.
Quote
"It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of The New England Journal of Medicine."

--Marcia Angell, MD
Did you read the propaganda piece you posted?  Probably not, I suppose since it's just a rehash of other stuff that's been refuted I guess you don't have to.  However it's interesting to note that the Angell quote is entirely unrelated.

Did you read Angell's article?  Didn't think so.  I did.  Angell cites exactly one medical study about the efficacy of anti-depressants.  One. That is the only medical evidence she appeared to examine to make her conclusion.  Not only that but it's not even like we're getting insider information from someone who used to work for a prominent journal.  She's referencing a Irving Kirsch's 2002 APA article on antidepressant effectiveness.  Kirsch, for some reason is quick to dismiss effects of antidepressants.  For example in that article he found a 20% effectiveness of antidepressants over placebo but he thinks it doesn't matter.   Turner did a similar study on a much larger group of anti-depressants in 2008 and found that the effectiveness was closer to 30% and Kirsch did a re-analysis of a small portion of that data and found the effect size to be 32%.   So just to clear things up Kirsch doesn't think 32% - in his OWN research means anything.  While Turner thinks it's reasonable to conclude that there is a clinically useful effect.

Considering that both of these studies were stronger statistically than Kirsch's 2002 study and available to Angell it's interesting that she would avoid stronger more recent evidence for older less reliable evidence.  It's also unclear why she would think these results would extend  to any other part of medicine.

She does make some good points about ways that pharmaceutical companies do try to give their studies an edge but all of her examples seem plagiarized from Richard Smith's 2005 article.  Her conclusion is the only thing that's different - that you can make studies say whatever you want.  Which is, of course wrong. 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 20, 2015, 04:13:10 PM
I already asked that dumb ass of sark, on what animals do they test the vaccines and how can they know the long term ill affects on a human when the animal being tested on does not live as a long a human.
I've already explained that this question is like asking: "When is Spain?".  Animal trials are used for toxicity and teratogenicity.  I've also asked you the question "How do you know the long term effects of NOT getting vaccinated?" and you can't seem to answer. :)
Quote
Ask the guy how the fuck can he know LONG TERN ILL EFFECTs DUE TO ANY DRUGS when they don't tests on humans? well i will bet you $1000 dollars he does not know...just watch for his response. Watch!
Well a) They do test vaccines on humans and b) Long term effects are evaluated based on prior probability and epidemiology.  I've said this a few times now.  Are you saying you just don't understand what I mean?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 20, 2015, 04:46:14 PM
21:20 "the majority of vaccines are made in china."
Are you just being racist now?  China may well produce more vaccines than any other country but not for North America.  Probably much of China's stock goes to vaccinate people in China.  China does export vaccines to other countries like Africa - probably their yellow fever and typhoid vaccines are from China.  The only one I know of which is licensed for sale in the US is for Japanese encephalitis I don't know the brand name offhand but it was only approved last year.
Quote
now go ahead and ask sark, where the vaccines are made?
ActHIB (Hib) - Sanofi Pasteur SA in Lyon, France
Adacel (Tdap) - Sanofi Pasteur Limited in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Boostrix (Tdap) - GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals in Rixensart, Belgium and Wavre, Belgium
Daptacel (DTaP) - Sanofi Pasteur Limited in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Energix-B (Hepatitis B) - GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals in Rixensart, Belgium
FluMist (Influenza) - MedImmune Vaccines, Inc. in Gaithersburg, Maryland and Wyeth in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Fluzone (Influenza) - Sanofi Pasteur, Inc. in Swiftwater, Pennsylvania
Gardasil (HPV) - Merck & Co., Inc., West Point, PA.
Havrix (Hepatitis A) - GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals in Rixensart, Belgium
Infanrix (DTaP) - GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals, but manufactured by Chiron-Behring GmbH & Co. in Marburg, Germany
IPOL (IPV) - Sanofi Pasteur SA in Lyon, France
Menactra (Meningococcal) - Sanofi Pasteur, Inc. in Swiftwater, Pennsylvania
Pediarix (DTap, IPV, Hepatitis B) - GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals in Rixensart, Belgium
PedvaxHIB (Hib) - Merck & Co., Inc., in West Point, Pennsylvania
Prevnar (Pneumococcal) - Lederle Laboratories in Sanford, North Carolina and Pearl River, New York
MMRII (Measles Mumps Rubella) - Merck & Co., Inc., West Point, PA.
ProQuad (Measles, Mumps, Rubella and Varicella) - Merck & Co., Inc., West Point, PA.
Quote
I'm certain he does not know
Certainly?  Are you Certain.  How certain are you?  100% Certain? :)

Baylock is kind of an idiot I wouldn't take too much of what he says seriously.  Many of the ideas he comes up with a) seem to come out of nowhere - for example where is HIS list of vaccine manufacturing locations? b) Have been refuted like his ideas about taking fish oil for the flu.
Quote
since his ONLY mentality is + vaccines are 100% safe!
Considering I've never said this, it's interesting that you're so bad at reading or bad at thinking that this is your conclusion.   Vaccines are not 100% safe - neither is remaining unvaccinated.  I do contend that vaccines are far safer than remaining unvaccinated.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on February 20, 2015, 04:56:39 PM
Doctor Russell Blaylock talks about:

How Vaccines Harm Child Brain Development (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QBcMYqlaDs).

Extremely informative.  Definitely a must watch.

Thanks for the url Seamonkey.
The argument troll is defending the indefensible and I don't like him for that.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: allcanadian on February 20, 2015, 05:18:36 PM
@joel321
Quote
"the majority of vaccines are made in china." now go ahead and ask sark, where the vaccines are made? I'm certain he does not know since his ONLY mentality is + vaccines are 100% safe! He/she/it does not care where they come from or REGULATE them, his/her/it only importance is that they are 100% true life! lol what an idiot! It gets tiring after a while debating with him and he should be brought to light as how ignorant he is.


I believe you hit the nail on the head, you know as a person gets older one tend to see BS for what it is.
Mr.Sark and the American dream remind me of that American icon McDonalds and he would probable argue it is perfectly safe....I mean look at the pictures of the food in their advertisements. However I have gotten food poisoning there twice and the last time my children wanted to go many years ago it did not end well. I ordered a BLT and I got a soggy bun with soggy white bacon and rotten lettuce. I told them I wanted my money back because I wouldn't feed that shit to my dog and I have never went back. Unfortunately this BS has pretty much defined what America has become...smoke and mirrors.


I know Sark sounds intelligent but in my opinion he's just another American snake oil salesman peddling his shit on the street corner. You see people can only buy into this BS for so long at which point a pattern of behavior starts to emerge. It was never about quantity it was about quality and when corporations put profit margins ahead of quality and safety then yea I have a problem with them.


On another note I was just watching a documentary last night where some remote tribes have a natural immunity to most all diseases unlike the so called modern cesspool we have created where disease is rampant. It is said cancer and diabetes will reach epidemic proportions within the end of the decade overwhelming the health care services. At what point does a person say...this shit ain't working and were doing something wrong?. In any case I find Sark's posts humorous because it's the same old BS, just another flavor of McDonalds, smoke and mirrors.


AC



Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 20, 2015, 06:04:12 PM
I mean look at the pictures of the food in their advertisements. However I have gotten food poisoning there twice and the last time my children wanted to go many years ago it did not end well. I ordered a BLT and I got a soggy bun with soggy white bacon and rotten lettuce. I told them I wanted my money back because I wouldn't feed that shit to my dog and I have never went back.
uh...so your argument is you got food poisoning from McDonalds twice and therefore most vaccines are made in China and therefore bad for you?  Seriously?  Does that make sense even to you?
Quote
I know Sark sounds intelligent but in my opinion he's just another American snake oil salesman peddling his shit on the street corner. You see people can only buy into this BS for so long
Ever think of pointing out precisely what I said - try quoting it -and saying why it's BS?  Because you just tried to use McDonalds to say that vaccines come from China.  So as far as BS goes I think you're putting out far more than I could even if I wanted to.
Quote
On another note I was just watching a documentary last night where some remote tribes have a natural immunity to most all diseases unlike the so called modern cesspool we have created where
...infant mortality rates and lifespan are much better than most undeveloped people groups?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 20, 2015, 06:05:20 PM
The argument troll is defending the indefensible and I don't like him for that.
What am I defending? (I assume you mean me and not SeaMonkey who is a troll)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on February 20, 2015, 06:18:34 PM
What am I defending? (I assume you mean me and not SeaMonkey who is a troll)
Don't butt in you obvious troll, I was talking to Seamonkey.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 20, 2015, 06:30:34 PM
Don't butt in you obvious troll, I was talking to Seamonkey.
There's a mechanism for messaging privately it's called "private messaging".

Seriously what am I defending that you don't like. 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on February 20, 2015, 06:37:39 PM
There's a mechanism for messaging privately it's called "private messaging".
Well thank you for telling me this.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 20, 2015, 09:47:02 PM
Well thank you for telling me this.
I live to serve.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on February 20, 2015, 10:00:21 PM
I live to serve.
You are a true nobleman.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 20, 2015, 11:36:04 PM
Quote from: Sar-Ke-Izzzzzen
I live to serve.

Is actually an incomplete sentence.  In Truth it goes
on a bit more:

"...to serve bologna and disinfo to the mind-numbed
masses in order to effect their compliance to the
Program of Mass Vaccination in order to accelerate
their demise.  Useless Eaters that they are."


A Truther in Canada provides more evidence of the campaign
of lies (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhI37jATtFQ) fabricated by the Pro-Vaccine crowd.

Yep, their aim is to 'serve' alright...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 21, 2015, 12:09:36 AM
"...to serve bologna and disinfo to the mind-numbed masses in order to effect their compliance to the Program of Mass Vaccination in order to accelerate  their demise.  Useless Eaters that they are."
Glad to see I'm still getting your goat.

So again, didn't you say that I'm somehow afraid of the truth.  Despite asking people to post the strongest evidence here in-thread.  The obvious and easy way to show I'm incorrect is to produce that very, very strong evidence right here.  If you believe what you post and you're rational then clearly you must have this kind of evidence on the tip-of-your tongue....but sadly we don't see any of that.

Just you posting links to various re-hashes of propaganda.  Again, all you have to do is post the evidence here and say it's STRONG.  You're not even being asked to argue or debate anything.  Just "here is the evidence and it is strong" but again it never seems to show up.

Are you sure it's me who's afraid? :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on February 21, 2015, 12:37:25 AM
Are you sure it's me who's afraid? :)
Yes.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 21, 2015, 01:04:34 AM
Yes.
Again it's easy to prove yourself right.  Put strong evidence right here in this thread, you don't even have to argue it.  You just post some part of an article which makes a very clear, complete and strong argument for "vaccines are the devil" or whatever it is you think.  If I can't rebut then you're right.

However you know that I will I mean even Joel-the-moron who makes claims like "You don't know where vaccines come from I'm absolutely certain to the point of complete and total conviction about it" got a clear rebuttal which I'm sure has his ancestors getting out the Preparation-H

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 21, 2015, 01:28:57 AM
Quote from: Sar-KeIzzzzzzen
...I'm incorrect...

Are you sure it's me who's afraid? :)

Aye, correct you are.  Your Love of Money is intensely
obsessive it seems. :o ??? ::)

Those, such as yourself, who utilize fear as a tool to
exhort compliance of the people to the Program of
Mass Brain Damage are incredibly fearful indeed!  :o ??? ::)

Fortunately, your game of disinformation is not working
nearly as well as you'd hoped.  Truth of the matter is,
you're actually turning people off to what you promote. 8) :P

Beating yourself at your own game is a sterling accomplishment.
Well done, Sarkey!  Self-flagellate away Dude! ;) :)

With friends like you who needs enemies? :) :D
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 21, 2015, 01:40:43 AM
Again, your frustration seems pretty evident.  Thanks! :)
Aye, correct you are.
If I'm afraid.  What am I afraid of?  Definitely not evidence which destroys my position.  I'm asking for that constantly.  Isn't your avoiding posting strong evidence here more like fearful behavior than me constantly asking for it?  Seems like it would be.
Quote
the Program of Mass Brain Damage
So wait.  Didn't you say that propaganda makes people more stupid...and isn't virtually every link you post propaganda? So aren't you the one attempting to reduce the intelligence of people?  Again, seems like it. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on February 21, 2015, 01:41:12 AM
If I can't rebut then you're right.
You already know vaccines are dangerous so there is no point in proving it.
You are an obnoxious troll.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 21, 2015, 02:40:16 AM
You already know vaccines are dangerous so there is no point in proving it.
Either we agree on something or we don't.  If we don't agree then there would appear to be a very good reason to prove something.  What I've stated is that vaccines are generally very, very, safe.  Certainly by comparison to the risk the disease represents and the level of protection provided.

If you agree great.  If not, then that's what there is contention about.  :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on February 21, 2015, 03:06:18 AM
What I've stated is that vaccines are generally very, very, safe.
You already know that vaccines are NOT generally very, very, safe..., so you lie.
It took me years ago a few weeks to find out (before the Internet) that vaccines are not safe at all.
It will take you with Google a few hours to find out.
Make up your mind, are you a smartass troll still or are you the ignorant troll this time?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 21, 2015, 03:08:24 AM
Quote from: Sar-KeIzzzzzzzen
...What am I afraid of?  Definitely not evidence which destroys my position.  I'm asking for that constantly...

Nope, Spoon Feeding is an unacceptable practice.
The presumption is that you're a self-sufficient adult
who is fully capable of finding whatever it is you believe
you are in need of.  At 800 wpm that should be child's
play. ;) ;D

If you are in fact, as you purport to be, a practitioner of
Critical Thinking then you should be very adept at the
Art of Research.  But, on the other hand, perhaps what
you purport is a figment of your imagination in the style
of Walter Mitty. ;) ;D

The two qualities which radiate forth from your postings
are Desperation and Dread Fear.  Could it be that The
Sarkey is naught more than a Wimpy Lib-tard? :o ::)

Land o' Goshen!!  The whole persona is a sham! :o ::)

Tink,

I admire your skill at cutting right to the heart of the
matter!  You've said it well!!
 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 21, 2015, 03:30:36 AM
You already know that vaccines are NOT generally very, very, safe..., so you lie.
Nope.  I'm willing to be convinced though.  So either you can produce strong evidence here...or you can pretend that strong evidence exists is easily aquired and somehow be entirely unable to produce it here.  Probably theory would say that you're lying. 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 21, 2015, 03:40:40 AM
You already know vaccines are dangerous so there is no point in proving it.
You are an obnoxious troll.

Come on man, talk science here...OK?  He KNOWS vaccines are dangerous...this is what you said...right?  Dangerous as compared to....what?  He has already said as much on the previous page.  He said...vaccines are not 100% safe BUT  (an important but) they are SAFER than not being vaccinated.  The science and numbers prove this.

In science, toxicity is about levels.  Danger, is about percentages.  Percentages backed up by real science and real studies.  How do you think the US eliminated all of those terrible diseases that are now coming back due to Obama's open boarders?  It was not by washing your hands...it was by vaccinations.  Nothing in this world is 100% safe.  If you read the studies on your chance of being injured taking a shower, you might decide to never shower again.  If you read a headline that says....2,000 people injured while showering.  That might scare you.  Until...you read and find out that was out of millions and millions of folks showering every day.  Once you have the real numbers, you can decide for yourself if you want to shower or not.  Just do not give up showering based on a headline or two.  Dig deeper.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on February 21, 2015, 03:44:45 AM
Nope.  I'm willing to be convinced though.  So either you can produce strong evidence here...or you can pretend that strong evidence exists is easily aquired and somehow be entirely unable to produce it here.  Probably theory would say that you're lying.
Is that best you can come up with?
You disappont me. :(
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 21, 2015, 03:45:31 AM
Nope
Well thanks for confirming that I'm clearly not afraid of any kind of evidence against the things I currently consider to be true.  Instead you are just refusing to provide evidence because of some made up reason. :)

As I said to Tink, if the evidence is clear and easy to procure and very strong then Bayes Rule says that your failure to produce that evidence means that it's either not really that clear or that easy to produce.  Thanks for continually confirming this. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 21, 2015, 03:46:19 AM
Is that best you can come up with?
It's (a corollary to)  Bayes rule.  :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 21, 2015, 04:07:32 AM
Come on man, talk science here...OK?  He KNOWS vaccines are dangerous...this is what you said...right?  Dangerous as compared to....what?  He has already said as much on the previous page.  He said...vaccines are not 100% safe BUT  (an important but) they are SAFER than not being vaccinated.  The science and numbers prove this.
See I'm seriously mystified as to why all the dancing around.  Anyone can go through the thread and see that I've been begging for something worth my time.  When Cap-Mo-ron was out and about he would do this dance too when he actually settled on a point.  Like the CDC whistleblower - BAM! I explained how the analysis was done by someone entirely unqualified and even explained why the analysis was likely wrong and the consequence that if you believe Hookers secondary analysis then you actually have to believe that the vaccines in question were SAFE for the majority of people.  IIRC his or someone elses next bit was about "no level of mercury is safe" and then again BAM! I produced a study showing insignificant cognitive ENHANCEMENT due to higher levels of mercury than you would ever get from vaccines.

His responses were all duck and cover.  "Oh it's not *that* whistleblower it's some other one that I can't name" and "That evidence isn't compelling" - the former is effectively what SM and Tink are doing now.  The later could have been a productive conversation but the only way to proceed would be to discuss what standard of evidence IS compelling...and that he didn't want to do.  Which is why it's on ignore.

So am I really so formidable  that I have SM, Cap-Z-ro, Tink and everyone else entirely UNABLE to post their evidence?  Again I don't seem to be the one scared. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on February 21, 2015, 04:09:05 AM
Come on man, talk science here...OK?  He KNOWS vaccines are dangerous...this is what you said...right?  Dangerous as compared to....what?  He has already said as much on the previous page.  He said...vaccines are not 100% safe BUT  (an important but) they are SAFER than not being vaccinated.  The science and numbers prove this.

In science, toxicity is about levels.  Danger, is about percentages.  Percentages backed up by real science and real studies.  How do you think the US eliminated all of those terrible diseases that are now coming back due to Obama's open boarders?  It was not by washing your hands...it was by vaccinations.  Nothing in this world is 100% safe.  If you read the studies on your chance of being injured taking a shower, you might decide to never shower again.  If you read a headline that says....2,000 people injured while showering.  That might scare you.  Until...you read and find out that was out of millions and millions of folks showering every day.  Once you have the real numbers, you can decide for yourself if you want to shower or not.  Just do not give up showering based on a headline or two.  Dig deeper.

Bill
Bill, how much deeper do you want me to dig?
It took me a few weeks to know a little but in the years after I have come to know a lot more, enough to write a book.
Remember I almost lost a child and I couldn't let go, I had to know the truth and when I found it the stench was enormous.
So again, how much deeper do you want me to dig?
The things you said in your post look a little bit silly and makes me very worried for the rest of humanity.
I am under the impression that it is you who has to dig a little deeper.
This is not a 1.7 times overunity transformer thread, nor is it about religion, this thread is a serious one and I have researched this subject in depth and then you start telling me I am wrong?
This subject is too serious to make fun of and sarkeizen knows better but he is here for an argument game, don't be fooled by him.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on February 21, 2015, 04:14:24 AM
It's (a corollary to)  Bayes rule.  :)
You are a silly obnoxious troll and showing your true colours.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 21, 2015, 04:45:35 AM
this thread is a serious one and I have researched this subject in depth
I seriously doubt that.  Every rebuttal I've given here is laden with information from the medical field.  I gave a blow-by blow of what's wrong with Wakefield's paper and how very suspicious the prominence he gave to MMR in it.  I analysed the article by the past Editor-in-Chief of the BMJ simply and showed that when you strip away the rhetoric you get one study from one researcher and not even the most accurate research from that person.

...and you post nothing. :) Sorry the evidence for your "in depth" research is simply non-existent.
Quote from: Tink
You are a silly obnoxious troll and showing your true colours.
My true colours?  That I've forgotten more about math than you will ever learn?  I confess to that wholeheartedly.   The fact remains that when you privilege a hypothesis to the degree that you have done.  That the evidence is SO clear and SO easily obtainable.  The fact that the evidence doesn't show up has to count AGAINST the hypothesis.  This is a simple combination of Bayes rule and the law of total probability.

If you don't understand please just name call some more so I can be sure that's the problem. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 21, 2015, 04:54:03 AM
Quote
Are you just being racist now?  China may well produce more vaccines than any other country but not for North America.  Probably much of China's stock goes to vaccinate people in China.  China does export vaccines to other countries like Africa - probably their yellow fever and typhoid vaccines are from China.  The only one I know of which is licensed for sale in the US is for Japanese encephalitis I don't know the brand name offhand but it was only approved last year.

I'm not being racist at all just stating that the only reason many companies move over seas is because of cheap labor for cheap products. I'm not saying that china does not make good products at all it is just a well know fact that most items that are cheap to make and cheap quality come from china due to their labor laws.

Why would they the over all vaccinations in china if not due to cheap labor and greater profit just like any other company knows.

Based on that mentality, I would cringe if I get injected where the vaccine bottle says “made in china”. Not because I'm racist but because of the stigma that china carries regarding over all consumer products.

It is widely known that if you allow UNREGULATED functions, they would become more unregulated. Even where regulated things are regulated, some “bend” the rules. Now we can see this FACT in objects like a game consoles, smart phones, heck even smart TV's, or computers.

Many times the REGULATED game consoles get pushed out to meet the deadline when later the masses find out that the DVD drive fails, or the OS is not stable.

I remember when the iphone came out with a the “first generation” model with many bugs hardware/firmware “can you hear me now?” lol

Just recently in the lenovo computers that come with “Superfish” adware that can be dangerous. (google it)

Etc etc etc

So if we put one and two together we are not dealing with objects, we are dealing with HUMAN LIVES! Which should require the utmost REGULATION. I'm only taking the videos “word of mouth” that most vaccines are made from china (ahem, you mentioned that vaccines work due to word of mouth yourself before lol) but I highly believe that is not far fetched. Just have to look for the data.


Quote
Vaccines are not 100% safe

Did he just admit that? :) We are doing progress.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 21, 2015, 05:12:59 AM
I'm not being racist at all
Well probably a little. :)
Quote
just stating that the only reason many companies move over seas is because of cheap labor for cheap products. I'm not saying that china does not make good products at all it is just a well know fact that most items that are cheap to make and cheap quality come from china due to their labor laws.
So you're saying that poor quality comes from low priced labor?  It's the other way around goods where the market will bear lower quality  gravitate to cheaper labor.  It's kind of a racist or at least nationalist to believe that labor in the US at $75/hr is inherently better than someone who lives in an economy where $10/hr is a higher than average wage.  The highest paying jobs in China are about 80K CNY/yr which is something like $13K USD/yr.  Which is something like $7/hr based on 40 hr weeks.
Quote
Why would they the over all vaccinations in china if not due to cheap labor and greater profit just like any other company knows

Well as was pointed out to your sorry, entirely wrong and incredibly stupid ass.  Nobody over here has moved all vaccinations over to China. :)  Only one optional vaccination was licensed as of last year.  You would know this if you did any research as the pre-qualification by WHO was big news.
Quote
I'm only taking the videos “word of mouth” that most vaccines are made from china
If you want to be gullible that's your business.  I've already provided the locations which disprove your point.  The source for that is from the Journal Pediatrics except for the last two ProQuad and MMRII which came from publicly available FDA approval letters.
Quote
Did he just admit that? :) We are doing progress.
Dude.  You would have to be stupid not to see that I've said that from the beginning. Oh wait...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 21, 2015, 05:27:20 AM
Me:
Quote
how can they know the long term ill affects on a human when the animal being tested on does not live as a long a human.


sark:
Quote
Animal trials are used for toxicity and teratogenicity.

SO geee let me use my brain, you only test toxicity and teratogenicity while the animal is alive? So how can you test it in the long run if the animal being testes is a lab rat?

Plus that is a very vague answer to be honest.

Quote
I've also asked you the question "How do you know the long term effects of NOT getting vaccinated?" and you can't seem to answer.

The long term effects is that I won't get manipulated as they wish nor want to be part of the “outside the lad” lab rat with out my consent. I believe in medicine don't get me wrong, but they are just being too unregulated that the majority, (90-99%?) of the population do not know what they are being injected with.

Then to even be scared about measles in the USA where only like 300 people have had it and not all died from it make it MANDATORY! The anti virus software use these tactics, you know what they call it? Neither do I (actually I do) where they put fear on the people so they can buy their ANTI VIRUS SOFTWARE and not just EDUCATE them computer user how to PREVENT viruses in the first place! The only answer is to google "the best windows anti virus" right?

I mean you can see this from every angle and it does not look good. AGAIN, honestly I'm not anti-vaccine I'm just anti-corruption/justice (pro-truth). I'm sure you would want the same thing over the long run too.

Quote
Well a) They do test vaccines on humans and b) Long term effects are evaluated based on prior probability and epidemiology.  I've said this a few times now.  Are you saying you just don't understand what I mean?

On what humans do they test the medicine? On people in jail or people who volunteer? From where are you getting these “facts”? Or are you just making them up as you go?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 21, 2015, 05:49:35 AM
SO geee let me use my brain,
Don't get my hopes up. :)
Quote
you only test toxicity and teratogenicity while the animal is alive?
Both are usually tested by biopsy or in the case of toxicity by successive doses.
Quote
So how can you test it in the long run if the animal being testes is a lab rat?
Please phrase the question in English.  I have no idea what you are pretending to say badly. :)
Quote
Plus that is a very vague answer to be honest.
Yes your answer was very vague.  How about if you don't understand something you say these magic words: "When you say _____ I don't understand what that word means." 
Quote
The long term effects is that I won't get
...more stupid?  Too late.  You're not answering the question what are the NEGATIVE SIDE EFFECTS IN THE LONG RUN of not getting vaccinated and how can you be certain and to what confidence level can you be certain.  Please answer the question.
Quote
Then to even be scared about measles in the USA where only like 300 people have had it and not all died from it make it MANDATORY!
However if people do not get vaccinated it will get worse and the people who can not get vaccinated will be killed by you.  It's not fear it's just that I want children to die less than you do. :)  Iv'e already provided statistics on the likelihood of death for IC patents. :)
Quote
I'm just anti-corruption/justice (pro-truth).
More like you are just embracing your own prejudices. I'm not sure if there's a better idiom than "pro-stupid" but lets go with that for now.
Quote
On what humans do they test the medicine? On people in jail or people who volunteer?
People who volunteer. 
Quote
From where are you getting these “facts”? Or are you just making them up as you go?
Clinical trials database, FDA applications, drug monographs and having met many people who have enrolled in drug trials.  All of these  (except for my experiences) can be found in public places (older FDA info usually require a FOI request but ones that already released are on the internet).   Ever think of thinking before you say something stupid? :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 21, 2015, 06:00:24 AM
Quote
Well probably a little.

I'm not, I like to eat turtle soup myself bro.

Quote
So you're saying that poor quality comes from low priced labor?

Hmmm, more quantity than QUALITY ring a bell? That how the assembly line works for the most part.

Quote
It's the other way around goods where the market will bear lower quality  gravitate to cheaper labor.

huh, you don't understand how QUALITY works right? It's in the perfume, jewelry, female appearance, food, health. Blah blah blah.

Just admit the FACTS man, stop bringing in the “racist” card in the “game”.

I just saw a documentary about how magnets are made in china and how the workers are dying. Pay the  person making magnets in the factory the same as one in any other place then there would be no such carelessness of human lives.  You are probably talking withing the city of china or the like.

How healthy is china regarding the air/water pollution compared to other places in the earth?

Quote
Nobody over here has moved all vaccinations over to China.

What percentage has been moved to China? lol

Quote
Only one optional vaccination was licensed as of last year.  You would know this if you did any research as the pre-qualification by WHO was big news.

OHH you you work at a place where vaccines are made eh! Cool, but then I'm wondering on what animal you test your medicinal theories on? Imported monkeys? Pigs? Rats? Mice? Anything but humans right? Inject the theoretical medicine on your mom/dad to experiment and find results? Just being real man! Sorry!

Quote
I've already provided the locations which disprove your point.  The source for that is from the Journal Pediatrics except for the last two ProQuad and MMRII which came from publicly available FDA approval letters.

Yeah well I need to look further in to that which but I don't have high hopes. Where is the source you got those results?

Quote
Dude.  You would have to be stupid not to see that I've said that from the beginning. Oh wait...

Whats is the percentage of save people in the USA with measles vaccine in the USA? Lol where the measles virus is like a ghost in the night! Did you read the part where I told you the tactics of how OS anti virus software use? How car insurance is advertised? How the pill that will make your dick grow? Etc... ;D

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 21, 2015, 06:18:08 AM
I'm not, I like to eat turtle soup myself bro.
Well you are very prejudiced against the Chinese for some reason.
Quote
That how the assembly line works for the most part.
Assembly lines have been used to increase quality. 
Quote
I just saw a documentary about how magnets are made in china and how the workers are dying. Pay the  person making magnets in the factory the same as one in any other place then there would be no such carelessness of human lives.
So you claim that some workplace in China is dangerous.  Increasing hourly rate wouldn't change anything.  In fact you could lower the safety standards when you do that and endanger more people.  Which seems to be your hobby or something. :)
Quote
You are probably talking withing the city of china or the like.
English please.
Quote
What percentage has been moved to China? lol
Exactly one  vaccine is approved as far as has been published.  The vast majority of recommended vaccines are made in the US, Canada or Europe.  As for the coverage of the JE vaccine I don't have the data on hand it's probably low as you generally vaccainte for JE for someone who is traveling the world.
Quote
OHH you you work at a place where vaccines are made eh!
Nope.
Quote
Cool, but then I'm wondering on what animal you test your medicinal theories on?
Animal testing depends on the disease model.  Murine model testing is the most common.
Quote
Anything but humans right?
Humans are tested during clinical trials.  Non-human animals are tested in pre-clinical trials.
Quote
Yeah well I need to look further in to that which but I don't have high hopes. Where is the source you got those results?
By "look further in" you mean "do nothing".  I told you where I got them right in that quote.  Try reading please.
Quote
Whats is the percentage of save people in the USA with measles vaccine in the USA?
I already gave data for deaths on healthy unvaccianted patients and IC patients.  Next time read before you say something stupid.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 21, 2015, 06:55:39 AM
Quote from: Sar=Ke-Izzzzzzen
...Every rebuttal I've given here is laden with information from the medical field.
...

Nice try Sarkey.  But no dice.  What you've provided is in
reality a regurgitation of Medical Field Propaganda with
very little, if any, Real Science involved in its fabrication. :o ??? ::)

It is very apparent that your whole life has been one of total
immersion in the 'Alice in Wonderland' world of False Education
as propagated via the Mass Hypnosis Technologies and Mind
Control Techniques
predominant in The West since the 1970s. :o ??? ::)

How unfortunate.  That you know no other Reality isn't your
fault - your mind is incapable of recognizing anything else.
You've been so fully conditioned that you are entirely dependent
upon what is fed you by The Establishment and have been
immunized against any point of view which is contradictory. :o ??? ::)

The State is your Object of Worship and your Benevolent (in your mind)
Provider
;  which makes you very fearful to look behind the
curtain to see that you've been grossly deceived. :o ??? ::)

For many this state of mind isn't Terminal.  In your case this
may not be so.  Without the support of The Establishment you'd
most likely fade away into a pile of dust. 8) ::) :-*

Sleep on Sarkey.  Zzzzzz. ;) ;D

Truth
is too fearful a proposition for you to embrace. :'( :-* ???
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 21, 2015, 02:08:25 PM
Glad to see this bugs you so much. :)
Nice try Sarkey.  But no dice.  What you've provided is in reality a regurgitation of Medical Field Propaganda
Actually no.  See what I've provided are references to studies and argument based on the principles of math and logic.  Since you're so ignorant I'll step you through a recent one.  For example when I talked about Angell's article - I noted:

a) That the only piece of actual medical research was one study - this can't be "medical field propaganda" because it's a quote from someone YOU endorsed...unless you are the one spreading "medical field propaganda". :)
b) Was authored by someone strongly critical of antidepressants, SSRI's in particular - this is simply a matter of public record.  Kirsch the the author of a whole book about this - if you cared to know anything about the field you criticize which you don't.
c) Was superceded by a LARGER and STRONGER study by Turner.  Which, you're right his whole team might just be paid medical stooges but...that's unlikely because Kirsch himself followed this study up with one where the EFFECT WAS EVEN STRONGER.  So unless the person who's research was the only medical basis given for the quote you endorsed was actually a puppet saying what the medical field shadow government wants - which means you were in fact spreading "medical field propaganda".  If that's not true - then your hypothesis is incorrect.

Want me to take you through the Wakefield article next?
Quote
you are entirely dependent upon what is fed you by The Establishment
I contend that what I want is evidence that is high-quality as deemed by the rules of probability theory.  You seem to be saying that only crappy evidence for alternative points of view exist.  If I'm wrong I would love to see that evidence.   However nobody seems capable of hitting Ctrl-C and then Ctrl-V to move that indisputable evidence from it's easy to find source to a post here.  Again, Bayes rule tells us that either such evidence does not exist or is not compelling or is not easy to find. :)  This isn't the work of the Establishment just math.  Ever learn any?  Didn't think so. :)
Quote
Truth[/b] is too fearful a proposition for you to embrace.
A statement which makes no sense considering how frequently I've asked for strong evidence. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 21, 2015, 06:12:54 PM
Quote from: Sar-Ke-Izzzzzen
...considering how frequently I've asked for strong evidence. :)

The 'evidence' is freely available from numerous
sources; many of them have been 'linked' throughout
the prior postings. ??? ::)

If you choose not to peruse and digest those materials
then Spoon Feeding is not an option.  You're clearly
beyond infancy. ::) :(

Oooops.  Wait a minute!  You are, aren't you? :o ;)

Oh, the mind is a terrible thing to waste... :( :-*
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 21, 2015, 07:09:01 PM
The 'evidence' is freely available from numerous sources; many of them have been 'linked' throughout the prior postings.
Ah but what I asked for was STRONG evidence.  See the word "strong" is even right there in the passage you quoted.  Can you give me a link to evidence which is very, very strong?  Or preferably contains the strongest evidence available for some idea?  Didn't think so.

So when all you're offering is weak evidence then why would anyone care?  Especially when competing ideas have far stronger evidence. :)  Hey, you just killed your own "spoon feeding" argument.  Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 21, 2015, 07:23:46 PM
More Evidence:

Vaccine horrors: Medical mutilation of innocent children exposed in GRAPHIC photos of "safe" vaccines gone horribly wrong (http://www.naturalnews.com/048691_vaccine_damaged_children_graphic_photos_medical_mutilation.html)
For those who are willing to learn Truth.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: kEhYo77 on February 21, 2015, 07:25:51 PM
New documentary, very revealing.


https://www.boughtmovie.net/free-viewing/thank-you.php?AFFID=NONE&optin=1 (https://www.boughtmovie.net/free-viewing/thank-you.php?AFFID=NONE&optin=1)

A quote from the movie:

"We need to have vaccinated vs vaccinated study if we want to have a real proof
and that study has never been done by the way.
There has never been a study looking at the safety of the ENTIRE vaccine schedule!"
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 22, 2015, 02:33:30 AM
"We need to have vaccinated vs vaccinated study if we want to have a real proof and that study has never been done by the way."
A vaccinated vs. vaccinated study?  What does that look like?
Quote
There has never been a study looking at the safety of the ENTIRE vaccine schedule!"
There has never been a study for every other sequence of medications either.  Think we should get a start on that too?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 22, 2015, 03:24:01 AM
Quote from: Sar-Ke-Izzzzzzen
There has never been a study for every other sequence of medications either.  Think we should get a start on that too?

For those Medical Professionals who purport to
promote healing of the sick, injured and diseased
and further to adhere to the Hippocratic Oath (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath#Modern_use_and_relevance) the
question above should be a no-brainer. :o ??? ::)

After all, we do today possess the technical capability
to assure that all medications and vaccinations are
completely safe and effective.  If we choose to. :) ;D

Unfortunately, the Love of Money gets in the way of
making choices which are truly beneficial to the
lowly masses. >:( :( :o

Corruption Inc. has taken over the Medical Field.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 22, 2015, 05:23:19 AM
More Evidence:
But not strong evidence.  Thanks for the warning. :)
After all, we do today possess the technical capability to assure that all medications and vaccinations are completely safe
Oh?  How so.  Can you provide a mathematical model demonstrating that possibility? I think when you said "no brainer" were you referring to yourself. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 22, 2015, 06:14:47 AM
It's kind of entertaining to see sark be the be-do-gooder regarding all medicinal aspects.

Someone: this is bad for the body!.

Sark: No!

Someone: This is bad for your kid!.

Sark: No!

Someone: There is not enough regulation to vaccinations.

Sark: No!

Me: stop chopping up my paragraphs.

Sark: No!

The pattern just speaks greater than what sark will ever say...lol

If I even get ill and end up in sarks hospital and being operated by sark, I would seriously, if I can move my arms, just stab myself in the heart with any sharp object that I can grab.

I personally believe that every time some one responds to him, he is dancing GANGNAM STYLE

http://youtu.be/9bZkp7q19f0
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 22, 2015, 07:02:40 AM
Joel,

You raise a series of exceedingly disturbing
characteristics of Sarkey's mental conditioning
which is obviously the result of many years of
exposure to sophisticated Mind Control Techniques.

He's a classic case of the inmate who screams
"I'm free, I'm free!!" as he rattles his chains of
imprisonment.  The eyes of his mind have been
reduced to pin-holes with peripheral blinders.
So very sad.

Those who are so severely robotized and puppetized
have not a clue that their thinking is so confined and
restricted.  A mind whose internal voice plays over and
over, like an endless repeating loop, all of the numerous
programmed 'thoughts' which make up his repertoire of
regurgitated expression.

Sarkey may never recover from his sad state.  The
programming and conditioning brought about by such
obvious trauma that it is inescapable.  What a terrible shame.

A true prisoner of a mush-mind which cannot generate any
sort of original thought - only regurgitations of implanted
echoes - repeating and repeating and repeating...

One can only wonder - does such a mush-mind ever experience
sleep and refreshment?  Apparently not.

What a terrible tragedy.  We must have great pity for Sarkey
and all who are similarly prevented from enjoying the pleasant
ecstasy of seeing Truth!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 22, 2015, 07:33:39 AM
Sarkey, in a nutshell:
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 22, 2015, 08:56:12 AM
SeaMonkey, don't feel bad but broaden your eyes sight. Pirate is not posting in this sub forum anymore, nor is milehigh and the other confused minds. “evolution” baby :). Sarks mind is evolving as we speak...three days ago his mind was different lol.

Sark has being going at it since the beginning. Now can you imagine how “valuable” his mentality would be if for some miracle he gets on your side?

Just encourage sark to be on your side by giving him a lollipop, lol.

But seriously, sark has knowledge. Or is one stubborn MOFO. But you have to admire his persistence, if that is to be admired. Lol.

From what I can understand is that people oppose the thing that gets them sacred = defense mechanism. If sark stops being scared, he would be better in understanding that vaccinations are not GODS. But then he has to convince his atheist “friends” too that he is trying to impress so hard. Lollipop.

Either way, Sea, You have a point! Which cannot get ignored. And I could ask you further questions too. To put you in the spot light also.

Lack of food? We are all killing either with money or with knifes to eat.

Lack of shelter? We are either paying money for the house or building one in Alaska.

Lack of clean water? All water has pathogens. In the filth there are more, boiling it will kill 99% of most.

What is sad mostly than sark, is that people do not know how to get ahead. As a matter of fact you bring up a good point, poverty cannot get cure with a pill nor any vaccine. quantity over quality.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 22, 2015, 05:06:05 PM
I would just like to say that both of you making this thread about me have added evidence that I've pretty much got you both stopped cold. :)
Sarks mind is evolving as we speak...three days ago his mind was different lol.
Not about any of the things you brought up - but please prove me wrong and show me where I said - in this thread - the opposite of something I said three days ago. 
Quote
From what I can understand is that people oppose the thing that gets them sacred = defense mechanism.
So in your opinion, you, allcanadian, SeaMonkey and Cap-Mo-Ron and Tink are all afraid of me.  Well thanks for admitting that but there's no reason to believe that someone who almost daily asks for strong evidence for an opposing point of view is afraid.
Quote
If sark stops being scared, he would be better in understanding that vaccinations are not GODS.
Nobody, at any time said they were. :)
Quote
But then he has to convince his atheist “friends” too that he is trying to impress so hard.
Who are we talking about now?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 22, 2015, 10:44:34 PM
Quote from: Sar-Kei-Zzzzzz-En
...
So in your opinion, you, allcanadian, SeaMonkey and Cap-Mo-Ron and Tink are all afraid of me.
...

Nay, there is naught to be afraid of.

Only to be pitied.  It is not often that such
and extreme case of mush-mind is encountered.

One who is so morbidly fearful of Truth.  With
a fear so intense that Truth cannot even be
looked at;  One whose words reveal that Truth is an
enemy which must be resisted at every opportunity.

The decades old enforcement of the Plan which
rewards loyalty to the Lie has been surprisingly
effective it would seem.  Aye, 'tis a real pity.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 22, 2015, 10:50:51 PM
Nay, there is naught to be afraid of.
According to Joel you are afraid.  So you might want to take it up with him.
Quote
One who is so morbidly fearful of Truth.
Is that you?  Again I have done nothing but ASK for strong evidence.  You do nothing but make up excuses not to give it.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on February 22, 2015, 11:03:51 PM
The answer to AIDS, hepatitis A,B and C, malaria, herpes, TB, most cancer and many more of mankind’s worse diseases has been found (http://wonkette.com/576934/the-snake-oil-bulletin-bleach-enemas-n-cream).
 ;D
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 23, 2015, 12:36:47 AM
Thanks for that link Orbut3000.  It amply
demonstrates that the Love of Money has
been a corrupting factor in 'health care'
for a very long time.

It is possible that real cures have been discovered,
or procedures that promote real cures. (http://www.activistpost.com/2015/02/big-pharma-dangles-life-and-death-over.html)

But, once again, the Love of Money crowd insists on
getting their corrupting 'hooks' into those possibilities
in order to guarantee their ongoing total control and
extreme financial return.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 23, 2015, 12:48:28 AM
Quote from: Sar-Kei-Zzzzzzz-En
According to Joel you are afraid.  So you might want to take it up with him.
..

Joel's 'fear' was that my thoughts regarding
your condition of 'Terminal Mush-Mind' may
be too pessimistic.  Joel has a more optimisitic
outlook in that he sees a possibility for your
returning from the Land of Oz to the Land of the
Living. :) ;D ;) :D

I'll stick to my original 'diagnosis.'  Sarkey is
trapped in the Matrix of the Lie and is beyond
escape.
:o ??? :-* ::)

Once a Mind is Mushed there is almost no hope
of recovery. :(
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 23, 2015, 01:54:19 AM
Joel's 'fear'
He said that the things you oppose are the things you are afraid of.  You oppose the ideas that vaccines are very safe and effective.  Hence you are afraid of them.  Again this is something you should be discussing with him not me.

...and again thanks for all the colorful terminology.  Nothing says "Sark is getting SeaMonkey's goat" more than some of the phrasing below:
Quote
was that my thoughts regarding
your condition of 'Terminal Mush-Mind' may
be too pessimistic.  Joel has a more optimisitic
outlook in that he sees a possibility for your
returning from the Land of Oz to the Land of the
Living. :) ;D ;) :D

I'll stick to my original 'diagnosis.'  Sarkey is
trapped in the Matrix of the Lie and is beyond
escape.
:o ??? :-* ::)

Once a Mind is Mushed there is almost no hope
of recovery. :(
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on February 23, 2015, 02:12:55 AM
The mystery man got nervous
And he fidget around a bit
He reached in the pocket of his mystery robe
And he whipped out a shaving kit
Now I thought it was a razor
And a can of foaming goo
But he told me right then when the top popped open
There was nothin' his box won't do
With the oil of aphrodite, and the dust of the grand wazoo
He said you might not believe this, little fella
But it'll cure your asthma too
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 23, 2015, 03:10:07 AM
Thanks for that link Orbut3000.  It amply demonstrates that the Love of Money has been a corrupting factor in 'health care' for a very long time.
Apparently you don't know when someone is mocking you. :)
Quote
It is possible that real cures have been discovered,
or procedures that promote real cures. (http://www.activistpost.com/2015/02/big-pharma-dangles-life-and-death-over.html)
But, once again,
Once again...is this strong evidence?  All you have to do is say "yes" and quote the portion which is STRONG EVIDENCE.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 23, 2015, 03:28:56 AM
Quote from: Sar-Kei-Zzzzzz-En
Apparently you don't know when someone is mocking you.
...

Not to worry.  Even in the 'mock' is found a gem of
Truth.  The Love of Money is indeed the Root of all Evil. ::)

In order for the Lie to be made palatable it must contain
some Truth.  Finding the Truth which exposes the Lie is
where discernment enters in. :) :D ;)

A Mind of Mush would not be able to see the simplicity of
this natural relationship.  A Mind of Mush is not able to
distinguish the Truth from the Lie. 8) :-* ;)

Your Desperation is reaching new heights Sarkey! :o ??? ;)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 23, 2015, 03:35:15 AM
Not to worry.
So you didn't know.  That's amusing. :)
Quote
A Mind of Mush is not able to distinguish the Truth from the Lie
Well that's easy to test. How about I post ten datasets each containing two values an X and a Y.  All you have to do with your discernment is tell me the likelihood if the X is related to the Y.  You can use all your psychic discernment powers.  Then I'll reveal the answers and if you have less than eight correct.  We will know that it's your mind which contains "mush".

Unless of course your ability to discern the truth is just something you made up....:)

(Psst...this might be a good time to post some really big graphics, or a completely irrelevant link or disappear for a while or any of your other methods of avoiding getting nailed.)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 23, 2015, 04:13:17 AM
Quote from: Sar-Ke-Ii=Zzzzzzz-En
So you didn't know.  That's amusing.

Didn't care.  Why get emotionally worked up about
nothing?  Spock wouldn't have. ;) ;D ::)

Quote from: Sar-Ke-Ii=Zzzzzzz-En
Well that's easy to test. How about I post ten datasets each containing two values an X and a Y.  All you have to do with your discernment is tell me the likelihood if the X is related to the Y.  You can use all your psychic discernment powers.  Then I'll reveal the answers and if you have less than eight correct.  We will know that it's your mind which contains "mush".

Your desperate attempts at Games of Desperation
are themselves quite amusing. :o ??? ::)

In a very sad sort of way.  What might have been
very bright and intellectually sound has been reduced
to a heap of mush. ??? :( ::)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 23, 2015, 04:18:40 AM
Your desperate attempts at Games of Desperation are themselves quite amusing. :o ??? ::)
Because using "desperate" several times in a sentence and in several consecutive posts is very convincing...that you are somewhat worked up about this. :)

So your rejection to test your discernment are you saying that your abilities are completely and totally useless at the kind of exercise I described kind of thing?  That seems like what your'e saying. :)

(again you might want to resort to one of your trademark escapes here)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 23, 2015, 04:24:06 AM
Sarkey,

Overcome your Desperation!

As the youth of today are so wont to say:
"Chill Out Man!" 

Enjoy this:
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 23, 2015, 04:30:23 AM
Overcome your Desperation!
Hey you used two of your classic ways of getting out of a discussion big graphic AND non-sequitur.  Even *after* I called it.  Must be pretty far over your head.
Quote
As the youth of today are so wont to say: "Chill Out Man!"
The youth of 1986 maybe.

So again, a simple answer would be appreciated.  Is your discernment useless at the kind of task I described or not?

(perhaps this time you need to disappear for a while)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 23, 2015, 05:01:56 AM
Quote from: Sar-K-Ei-Zzzzzzz-En
...
Is your discernment useless at the kind of task I described or not?
...

Quote from: Words of Sarkey
useless task

Enjoy this Sarkey:
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 23, 2015, 05:08:36 AM
This too:

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 23, 2015, 05:35:35 AM
Ah so you went with a non-sequitur and big graphics again...you're sure desperate not to answer my question :)

That question still remains:  Is your discernment entirely useless at finding if there is a relationship between two variables?  Again all you have to do is say yes or no or that you don't know.  It has to be one of those three. Perhaps you know that your answer kind of kills your argument?  No?  If not, why not answer?


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on February 23, 2015, 05:51:04 AM
https://www.intellihub.com/vaccine-horrors-medical-mutilation-innocent-children-exposed-graphic-photos-safe-vaccines-gone-horribly-wrong/


Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on February 23, 2015, 05:57:10 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9XRbjOQDvY

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on February 23, 2015, 06:12:12 AM
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/additives.htm

The video in my last post is very good. ;)

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on February 23, 2015, 06:22:43 AM
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/03/14/the-danger-of-excessive-vaccination-during-brain-development.aspx

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on February 23, 2015, 06:26:45 AM
"Ironically, the U.S. has one of the highest infant mortality rates out of 34 nations surveyed, beating out nations like Slovenia, Singapore, Greece, and Cuba. Correspondingly the U.S. also has the most required childhood immunization doses at 26."

http://www.dynamicchiropractic.com/mpacms/dc/article.php?id=57102


Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 23, 2015, 06:42:50 AM
https://www.intellihub.com/vaccine-horrors-medical-mutilation-innocent-children-exposed-graphic-photos-safe-vaccines-gone-horribly-wrong/
Any reason they don't link to the actual image sources?  I mean why would they try so hard to avoid giving you some context?  Anti-vaccine people always seem to want you to take immense leaps of faith.  Most of the pictures seem to be some form of severe eczema which is at least a possible vaccine reaction.  If it is, it's a) exceptionally rare and b) usually self-resolves.  The HPV reference is nonsense and the line about: " CDC officials, media newscasters and U.S. lawmakers claim all these photos do not exist" indicates the amount of carelessness used in assembling the article.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 23, 2015, 06:45:28 AM
The video in my last post is very good. ;)
Are you saying it's very strong evidence of something?  Can you reproduce the evidence here? :)

Same old. Same old.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 23, 2015, 07:47:57 AM
Sark, I personally believe that you need to understand the consequentialness of drugs...you just have to understand that drugs do not cure ANYTHING but just ONLY help the immune system.

I was reading today about the malaria virus. http://www.bbc.com/news/health-31533559

What the “study” means is that, in south east Asia, the malaria virus is becoming immune to the “vaccination” (artemisinin ) because the the virus is ONLY being “fought” with medicine! What does that mean? = the virus will become immune (mutate) eventually. So what that means is BEAUTIFUL! That drugs don't cure “viruses”. The immunity does!

The article goes on to say that Africa is the next to be suffering from malaria. BUT then the study shows that Africans have more immunity for maleria which means that even though Africa may have more malaria cases, their body is becoming immune to it over time. = higher percentage of survivors than just avoiding malaria with drugs/vaccinations.

Just another example how drugs fail and the IMMUNE system works. Did you get that sark? Malaria survivors survive because of their immunity and not because of the vaccination SINCE the virus will ALWAYS become IMMUNE to the vaccine eventually!

Very important thing to learn here....VACCINATIONS are not the key! Since the virus will eventually will mutate to evade the vaccine!

How many times do I have to tell you that not getting sick in the first place surpasses vaccinations in the long run?

If you are really that smart sark, why are people dying from dancing in the middle of the street during rush hour? http://youtu.be/9_zduDy1SoA well, he did not die but can you explain why would someone do that and then explain why would you feel pity for such bundle of atoms? Actually those are the TYPE of people that will kill you passively.  Agree?



Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 23, 2015, 02:53:37 PM
Nice to see that you're starting to drop the affectation. :)
...
So in Africa there are protozoa which are resistant or partially resistant to an very specific anti-microbial called artemisinin.  If these parasites migrate to India we can expect a lot more deaths than in Africa because in Africa so many people have died of the disease there has been a selective pressure on people to develop some greater ability to survive the disease.  This "immunity" (not a very precise word) is in the form of an allele which causes other kinds of illness and death but short-term disease resistance.

While this has very little to do with vaccination being effective and safe compared to being unvaccinated. You seem to want to stretch the analogy.  It's probably just as good a warning against remaining unvaccinated as anything else.  In this case you have a group of people dying - because Joel says so - and over time this selects for disease resistance however that resistance is a trade off making the population MORE SUSCEPTIBLE to longer term illness.

Also you still seem confused that vaccines are preventative measures.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 23, 2015, 06:11:33 PM
"Ironically, the U.S. has one of the highest infant mortality rates out of 34 nations surveyed, beating out nations like Slovenia, Singapore, Greece, and Cuba. Correspondingly the U.S. also has the most required childhood immunization doses at 26."
Wow that's a real comedy of errors but you didn't read the study right?  You just read some chiropractor who hopefully read some of it tell you want it said and you swallowed it whole.  The study is by an independent researcher - who I can't find any credentials on at all - and a computer scientist.   So unless the first guy is a statistician they already probably know less than nothing about what they're talking about.

They make no attempt to determine the variance between uptake and the recommended schedules, or the differences in the ways various countries measure infant mortality.  No attempt to look at year to year progression of both variables. They also grouped the values for no adequate reason.  All to explain a correlation of 0.7.

I could do the analysis but considering that would likely be 1,000,000 times the work that you have ever done in investigating vaccine harm.  I'm not going to bother but it's not hard to see that if you were to plot these over time instead of over country you would see a decline in infant mortality as vaccines are introduced.  Then again maybe if someone here offers me a lolipop - like Joel playing me a few games on Kiseido - I'll consider running it through R.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on February 23, 2015, 06:18:21 PM
Any reason they don't link to the actual image sources?  I mean why would they try so hard to avoid giving you some context?  Anti-vaccine people always seem to want you to take immense leaps of faith.  Most of the pictures seem to be some form of severe eczema which is at least a possible vaccine reaction.  If it is, it's a) exceptionally rare and b) usually self-resolves.  The HPV reference is nonsense and the line about: " CDC officials, media newscasters and U.S. lawmakers claim all these photos do not exist" indicates the amount of carelessness used in assembling the article.

Lol. This from the 'know it all'.  Ever think to look in the description of the video on YT????  Long list. The last 3 posts from me are from that list of sources. Of course, no reply from you on the CDC link post. ::) ::)

HPV.  You ever seen the teen pregnancy rates in the US in the last couple years?  Down in all 50 states. What, you think teens are just not that interested in having  these days? ::) ::) In all 50 states???

Its about population reduction. Even Bill gates is involved in that.  You go look that up yourself. If you find only links to the contrary, Ill do the easy work for you then. ::) ;)

From now on, maybe you had better put up 'your' links to sources for what you say, instead of throwing that blame around on others. :P

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 23, 2015, 06:45:04 PM
Lol. This from the 'know it all'.  Ever think to look in the description of the video on YT????
The article provided no sources for the images.  If someone put them somewhere else that still doesn't put them in the article.  It also doesn't make up for how poorly researched the article was when it implies that the CDC denies these pictures exist. :)
Quote
Of course, no reply from you on the CDC link post.
The post with a list of ingredients?   What did you want to say about that?
Quote
You ever seen the teen pregnancy rates in the US in the last couple years?  Down in all 50 states. What, you think teens are just not that interested in having  these days? ::) ::) In all 50 states???
Actually live births per 1000 show rapid decline from 1991to 2005 followed by a slow decline.  So I'm not sure what your particular idiot idea is but if you're saying that HPV vaccination is somehow sterilizing teens then clearly it's not nearly as good as whatever was being used before the introduction of HPV.  So if depopulation is their game they aren't very good at it.
Quote
From now on, maybe you had better put up 'your' links to sources for what you say
As ever if you want a SPECIFIC reference I'm more than happy to oblige.  Just say: "You said X. Can I see a reference for X".  As long as X is a specific thing it works like magic. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 23, 2015, 10:25:45 PM
Quote from: Sar-Ke-I-Zzzzzz-En
...
That question still remains:  Is your discernment entirely useless at finding if there is a relationship between two variables?  Again all you have to do is say yes or no or that you don't know.  It has to be one of those three. Perhaps you know that your answer kind of kills your argument?  No?  If not, why not answer?

The answer - in case you missed it:

Your Desperate Proposal is merely an effort to
engage in Desperate Games in a purely Desperate
Attempt
to bolster your Desperately Bruised Ego. ::) ??? :-[

Desperately Useless.  You're struggling Desperately
to create an image of knowledgeable intellect and
are failing Miserably. :o ::) ???

It is looking more and more like your Mush-Mind
is indeed a Terminal Condition.  Absolutely no hope of
escape from your Desperate State of Mush-Mind. ::) :o :(

How very sad... :( ??? ::)

Sarkey, you must simply face the fact that you're a loser. :o 8) :-*

Desperately so. :) ;D ;)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 23, 2015, 10:59:36 PM
The answer - in case you missed it:
See, you're wrong. The question I'm asking is clear and highly relevant to the topic at hand.  It only can be answered in one of three ways, so until you choose one of those - you have not answered it. :)
So please answer if your discernment is useless at finding a relationship between two (or more) variables.  Just a yes, no or I don't know will do.  :)

Quote
Your Desperate Proposal is merely an effort to
engage in Desperate Games in a purely Desperate
Attempt
to bolster your Desperately Bruised Ego. ::) ??? :-[

Desperately Useless.  You're struggling Desperately
to create an image of knowledgeable intellect and
are failing Miserably. :o ::) ???
Could you use the word "desperate" a few more times in your next post?  LOL.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on February 23, 2015, 11:53:32 PM
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[/color]


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Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 23, 2015, 11:57:59 PM
Quote from: Sar-K-E-I-Zzzzzz-En
...
So please answer if your discernment is useless at finding a relationship between two (or more) variables.  Just a yes, no or I don't know will do.  :)
...

Discernment, as you already know, develops
its powers of 'vision' through life experiences.
Wisdom grows as discernment becomes refined
in its ability to detect the Lie which obscures Truth.
To uncover the gems of Truth which those deceived
by the Lie are not able to comprehend.

Thinking that Discernment can be evaluated by
means of a competitive game is a prime example
of the Folly of the Wisdom of Man as it is taught in
numerous Institutions of The Establishment.

True Discernment, which is not attached to the Lie,
comes from a Source which is not the Same Source
as the Lie itself.  Good vs. Evil.

Your sense of Desperation originates from the same
Source as the Source of the Lie.  You cannot rest
until you've proven to yourself that you are in some
way Superior to others; that your Cleverness is better
than theirs; that your Beliefs are the only right beliefs;
that your Idol of Worship is more powerful than any
other.

Aye, it is very sad indeed to see how Desperation leads
one to pursue the Comfort in the Lie.

The day will come, perhaps soon, where you will realize
that not all is well within the Matrix which presently feeds
your desires.  Then you'll have to make a very difficult
choice;  whether to continue on the present path or to
wander off in the direction of Truth.

A Deceived Mind is a terrible thing to behold.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 24, 2015, 12:01:15 AM
Who needs facts?
Not you apparently. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 24, 2015, 12:32:01 AM
Discernment, as you already know, develops its powers of 'vision' through life experiences. Wisdom grows as discernment becomes refined in its ability to detect the Lie which obscures Truth.
Seems like you say you can differentiate.  If someone gives you a bunch of datasets and labels them related, non-related.   Then either the label is correct or it's a lie.

...but I'm sure you have some excuse ready.  So let's hear what makes your discernment so useless. :)

Quote
Your sense of Desperation
Quote
Aye, it is very sad indeed to see how Desperation
Only a 2 on the "SeaMonkey is desperate scale".  Disappointing. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 24, 2015, 02:35:06 AM
Quote from: Sa-Rk-Ei-Zzzzzz-En
...
Then either the label is correct or it's a lie.
...

That is for You to decide to your own Satisfaction.

All should be free to make such choices in accordance
with their level of understanding.  If errors are made
then potential consequences may provide correction.

Such is life in a Free society.  Where none strive to
control the lives or the thinking of any others.

Sa-R-Key,

Why the obsession for control over others?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 24, 2015, 02:49:28 AM
But you see you said...
Quote from: SeaMonkey
Mind of Mush is not able to distinguish the Truth from the Lie
I think it's well within the critical thinking that you used to champion (until I cornered you into to going all dimes-store mystic) that you examine your abilities.  So now that you've confirmed that your discernment works in these cases.  It will be simple to set up the test...

Shall I post the datasets tomorrow?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 24, 2015, 07:11:40 AM
Quote
So in Africa there are protozoa which are resistant or partially resistant to an very specific anti-microbial called artemisinin.  If these parasites migrate to India we can expect a lot more deaths than in Africa because in Africa so many people have died of the disease there has been a selective pressure on people to develop some greater ability to survive the disease.  This "immunity" (not a very precise word) is in the form of an allele which causes other kinds of illness and death but short-term disease resistance.

Artemisinin is extracted from a plant to be used as a medicine for malaria from what I have read. From the article, south east Asia malaria is on the verge to mutate to become immune to artenisinin (only known vacine that can fight it in 2015). While in Africa, even though people still get sick, there are MORE positive results due to the human body immune system learning to cope with the virus with vaccination along with human  immunity. IOW, higher success rate due to human immune system fighting the virus along with the vaccination!

Quote
While this has very little to do with vaccination being effective and safe compared to being unvaccinated. You seem to want to stretch the analogy.  It's probably just as good a warning against remaining unvaccinated as anything else.  In this case you have a group of people dying - because Joel says so - and over time this selects for disease resistance however that resistance is a trade off making the population MORE SUSCEPTIBLE to longer term illness.

All I have being saying is that prevention is the ONLY KEY/CURE! You kind of believe that ignoring the prevention is NOTHING and vaccinations is the EVERYTHING. Which I kind of find as stupid. = The key to any cure is to get sick in the first place and then cure it with medicine?

The only purpose of vaccinations exist is as a last resort. The 100% cure to the known virus is prevention! NOT, getting cured after getting sick. That would be like teaching people, “i don't care if I crash cus I have insurance”.

Quote
Also you still seem confused that vaccines are preventative measures.

You are stuck that vaccines ere the 100% cure! When it is 100% wrong. You are killing people by spreading that ideology. Viruses that get in to the body will never leave. Even with a vaccine...the immunity will only bitch slap it sort to speak. The carrier, even thought immune, will always carry the virus and will spread it around to others that their immune system have not fought the virus successfully.

Are you not smart enough to understand such simple things AND NOT ONLY THAT, a virus will mutate and the vaccine will become useless once the virus mutates in the future.

Prevention is the key not drugs.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 24, 2015, 07:35:58 AM
Quote from: Sa-r-Ke-i-Zzzzzz-En
...
Shall I post the datasets tomorrow?

As is always the case, you may do as you please.

Whether or not anyone takes note of what you
do is an entirely different matter.

Games intended to create an air of Superiority
for the advocate who exhibits symptoms of
Inferiority are generally not well received by
Adult audiences.

Let your Desperation be your Guide.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 24, 2015, 01:10:15 PM
Games intended to create an air of Superiority
It's simply not a game.  It's exactly what you would do when you judge any piece of data
Quote
Let your Desperation be your Guide.
Only scoring a 1 on the "SeaMonkey is desperate" scale.  You really should try harder.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 24, 2015, 03:11:45 PM
...and the affectation drops even more.
From the article, south east Asia malaria is on the verge to mutate
Let's see if I can phrase some of your text better: The article does not say "verge to mutate" anywhere.  Please say "from the article" when you are using a text from the article :). Malaria is an infection by a protozoa.  There is already a variant which is resistant to artemisinin which is not a vaccine - it's a very specific anti-microbial and should only be used in conjunction with other therapies.  This resistance is not in Africa it's primarily in Cambodia.  However it has been detected in Myanmar - which is very close to India which is of high concern because of it's population density (421/sqkm).    Normally the medical conversation about artemisinin resistance centers around Africa because when drugs like chlorquinine became less useful - lots of people died in Africa.  This paper contends that India is a bigger risk than Africa because of a human allele which confers disease resistance.  However that is at the cost of being more likely to get sick later and that current attempts to contain resistant protozoa are not sufficient.  Artemisinin isn't the only drug but it is the more effective and most well-tolerated.

So this is not "human body is doing better than drugs in Africa".  African people are still being treated with artemisinin (and hopefully in concert with other drugs).  It's about being able to maintain a population density.  If you stop people taking artemisinin people will die at a higher rate lowering the overall population.  Eventually this will cause people to have less contact the r0 of the disease drops.  In concert with this will be anything nature can do to confer resistance - that is select for people who are more likely to be immune but that's by killing people who are not likely.   
Quote
All I have being saying
Dude you go off topic more than anyone I've ever met.  Hence you lose the right to say "all I have been saying".
Quote
is that prevention is the ONLY KEY/CURE!
Having spent some time in Africa in malaria affect I can tell you that people do use preventive methods - in fact for non-natives the most common preventative action is to take drugs.  For natives it's neither feasible to take the same medication that visitors do neither can they spend the whole day in a spacesuit.  The current infection rate is the result of prevention being insufficient to maintain the population :)
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You kind of believe that ignoring the prevention is NOTHING and vaccinations is the EVERYTHING.
Something I've never said.  Even though you have stupidly claimed it many times. 
Quote
The only purpose of vaccinations exist is as a last resort.
Again as we learned in the recent ebola outbreak preventative measures are insufficient even when people are well equipped, highly-educated and have a lot to lose.  Most vaccines reduce the r0 by more than half.  Hence most vaccines are superior to preventative measures. 
Quote
The 100% cure to the known virus is prevention!
...and earlier you said that no preventative measure is 100% so you have contradicted yourself.  Congratulations.
Quote
You are stuck that vaccines ere the 100% cure! When it is 100% wrong.
They're not the cure, they are prevention and they harm almost nobody.  All evidence suggests that your way would create more corpses.  If that's what you want.  That's your business. :)
Quote
Viruses that get in to the body will never leave.
Not true.  A virus that can not replicate eventually discorporates.
Quote
The carrier, even thought immune, will always carry the virus and will spread it around to others that their immune system have not fought the virus successfully.
Nope.  Serology of someone who has been infected tends only to show antigens.  If viruses exist they eventually die and you don't shed them because they can't replicate.   
Quote
a virus will mutate and the vaccine will become useless once the virus mutates in the future.
Primary method of mutation is replication error.  People who use Joel methods will likely replicate more viruses and therefore Joel methods create more mutations.
Quote
Prevention is the key not drugs.
Vaccines and other drugs are prevention. Let me know when you figure this out.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 24, 2015, 07:50:47 PM
Actual vaccine news....sort of gene therapy to produce proteins which will coat most types if HIV virus.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/02/150218073059.htm
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 24, 2015, 10:56:38 PM
Quote from: Sa-r-Ke-i-Zzzzzz-En
...
Vaccines and other drugs are prevention.
...

There is Truth in that statement.

In order to fully reveal that Truth and also the
Lie that it serves to conceal it is necessary to
discover what is being 'prevented.'

The Love of Money has effectively excised the
good intentions from the whole program of
Medicine and Vaccinations.  Top Down pressure.

The Love of Money has made most Americans slaves. (http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=111551)

Those who Love Money the Most will step on those
who dare to reveal their 'secrets.' (http://henrymakow.com/2015/02/central-bank-whistle-blower.html)

The Whole World is suffering corruption at the hands
of those who Love Money.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 24, 2015, 11:07:18 PM
The Love of Money has effectively excised the good intentions from the whole program of Medicine and Vaccinations.
Again math, as usual says you're an idiot.  People have their lives saved by medicine every day.  In fact people do studies on the overall effectiveness of medicine and we compile stats on particular therapies and outcomes.   It's actually pretty difficult to find a common practice where the NNTH is close to the NNTT.

But again, this requires knowing something about what you're talking about.  Something you don't seem too concerned with. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 25, 2015, 03:29:36 AM
Millions of people have died from malaria over the years in many different countries.  This did not used to be so.  Why?  Because of a book called "Silent Spring' which touted all of the horrible dangers of DDT.  So, DDT was banned all around the world and...now millions have died...deaths that were preventable.  How many folks have died from exposure to DDT?  None have ever been officially recorded.  Not one.

This makes no sense but clearly demonstrates how an ignorant over reaction can have a real and devastating effect.  There were no studies on DDT prior to banning.  Had this been done, it would have been clear that the risk to humans from mosquito bites was far, far more dangerous than exposure to DDT.

They used to spray it in my hometown in summers via a truck, we kids would ride our bikes through the cool looking "fog".  I am still here.  Millions that have died from malaria are not.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 25, 2015, 03:48:31 AM
Millions of people have died from malaria over the years in many different countries.  This did not used to be so.  Why?  Because of a book called "Silent Spring' which touted all of the horrible dangers of DDT.  So, DDT was banned all around the world and...now millions have died...deaths that were preventable.  How many folks have died from exposure to DDT?  None have ever been officially recorded.  Not one.

This makes no sense but clearly demonstrates how an ignorant over reaction can have a real and devastating effect.  There were no studies on DDT prior to banning.  Had this been done, it would have been clear that the risk to humans from mosquito bites was far, far more dangerous than exposure to DDT.

They used to spray it in my hometown in summers via a truck, we kids would ride our bikes through the cool looking "fog".  I am still here.  Millions that have died from malaria are not.

Bill
I'm not an expert on this but my understanding is similar.  DDT as having endochrine distruptor characteristics is probably like BHA in terms of toxicity.  However back in the day the average persons exposure to DDT was probably several orders of magnitude of the average persons exposure to BHA.  It also bioaccumulates so I can understand some caution.  AFAIK what it is banned for is agricultural use and is still used (or at least was when I was in Africa) for controlling disease.   Which probably makes it more effective.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 25, 2015, 04:40:11 AM
Quote
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=111551

This is a big issue that a lot of people are not aware of or have just thrown in the towel and have learned to just take it and not make a peep.

One of the things that I have noticed regarding my passion for understanding our beautiful earth is that workers are treated like donkeys. From the top level even from the bottom level.

Thankfully I have never experienced this myself due to the fact that I can pretty much maintain a job due to the ability to learn the job easy. I honestly felt guilty when one of my bosses fired an older guy that was way over his forties (I was just in my early 20's) that had been there working over 6-7 years and I just did the job because I did not find it hard to be honest. I felt bad when he was let go (I knew i was his replacement) and the other workers where trying to say that I was kissing ass to the boss which I wasn't. The cold truth is that not knowing what to do at your job (or one that has been slacking for years) will get replaced by the one that makes the company a greater profit no questions asked.

But yeah, most of todays life is just people taking advantage of people. That even happens in family matters where one poor excuse of a person that cannot hold a job kills the other that has a one million dollar life insurance. Actually, money is a disease that needs to get cured.

But there is no cure for it to be honest. The best cure is to keep those young ones smart. Teach them how to fix their own car, their own TV, their own HVAC, their own computer, their own everything....it's not really that hard to due because the human brain calculates millions of things a second.

Anyone can learn to fix anything in their house or understand anything at work. That is 100% facts! The only thing that is 100% wrong is that all businesses want to keep the consumers stupid since being stupid is what makes them more money than if you are the intelligent type.

Money makes the world go round. And money corrupts the mind.

I read the history of money a while back and my eyes where opened wide big. There is a PDF book on the internet regarding the corruption of money and shows how the bankers can print one dollar bills and 100 dollars bills by just paying cents. They only pay the cent to the paper, ink, etc...while the profit is obvious of course...who would not print 100 bills for cents?

There is a law that allows people to print their own money if they want to but the printers of their currency are strictly monitored. They are not going to get rich nor could use their currency to buy outside their town/city.

This money corruption gets engraved in to people that a lot of them get sidetracked from truth. The big example that you can probably understand is the fued with nicola tesla and jp morgan. Also Andrew Carnegie with his historic incident that was forcing workers to work over time.

Etc.

Now all of this historic greed mentality still effects the minds of people today. Even in the medicine . For example, HPV Vaccines here that cause the leading throat cancer due to being sexually transmitted, cost $600 dollars each.

Another simple example, My brother was in a car accident where his car rolled over and he was charged $800 dollars for anesthesia alone. Plus the ambulance ride to the hospital which was a thousand something dollars. Plus staples that he had to have in his head...etc...

If I'm not even mistaken, parents pay $3000 USD to give childbirth in the hospital.

SO:

$600 for a HPV vaccine for girls. (which I believe there are three to be had for the major strains)
$800 for anesthesia. (numbing drug so you don't feel the pain)
$3000 so your wife gives birth in the hospital not counting is there is an ambulance ride nor if there is anesthesia.

Look at all the money coming in their fat pockets. And these are few examples that I personally know of. Lol.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 25, 2015, 05:15:48 AM
As usual you're full of kind of random nonsense...
For example, HPV Vaccines here that cause the leading throat cancer due to being sexually transmitted, cost $600 dollars each.
Cervarix has shown some significant ability to prevent (which is why vaccines are preventative) oral HPV infections which could lead to throat cancer.  Which is in addition to protection against cervical cancer.  The cost of Cervarix varies but it's around $134 per dose - unless you're in Canada (and perhaps other single payer economies) where it's $90.  That's $270 to prevent a disease that would cost either you, your insurer or your economy between $3000 and $45,000 to treat.
Quote
$800 for anesthesia. (numbing drug so you don't feel the pain)
That's analgesia.  Anesthesia is about sensation or in the case of general anesthesia it's about keeping you unconscious.  The point is to allow doctors to perform another procedure with a higher chance of success and lower probability of injury.  Anesthesia is expensive because it has a narrow therapeutic range and serious consequences if not done properly.  The insurance an anesthesiologist needs to have can cost between $4000 and $54000 per year.
Quote
Look at all the money coming in their fat pockets.
Wah wah wah wah wah.  Joel could you take your whining somewhere else.  Sure doctors aren't poor but they also have costs that are beyond the means of many people as well.  You could just as easily complain about plumbers or electricians or any other professional occupation.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on February 25, 2015, 07:11:07 AM
Wakefield is not a fraud - His study linking MMR vaccine to autism vindicatedLearn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/048753_Wakefield_study_MMR_vaccine_autism.html#ixzz3Sjb7FEzT (http://www.naturalnews.com/048753_Wakefield_study_MMR_vaccine_autism.html#ixzz3Sjb7FEzT)



If vaccines work so well, then why does the science have to be FAKED?Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/048758_vaccine_dangers_fake_science_chemical_medicine.html#ixzz3SjbCGzPW (http://www.naturalnews.com/048758_vaccine_dangers_fake_science_chemical_medicine.html#ixzz3SjbCGzPW)



Oregon state senator Elizabeth Steiner Hayward calls for government to physically violate children by force with vaccine mandate echoing Nazi crimes against humanityLearn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/048760_Elizabeth_Steiner_Hayward_vaccine_mandate_Oregon_government.html#ixzz3SjbHXaap (http://www.naturalnews.com/048760_Elizabeth_Steiner_Hayward_vaccine_mandate_Oregon_government.html#ixzz3SjbHXaap)


Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 25, 2015, 07:28:20 AM
Quote
Cervarix has shown some significant ability to prevent (which is why vaccines are preventative) oral HPV infections which could lead to throat cancer.  Which is in addition to protection against cervical cancer.  The cost of Cervarix varies but it's around $134 per dose - unless you're in Canada (and perhaps other single payer economies) where it's $90.  That's $270 to prevent a disease that would cost either you, your insurer or your economy between $3000 and $45,000 to treat.

lol Cervarix. Did that word come from term cervix which is the opening of the females uterus? Lol 

Due to the contrary beliefs females are very very promiscuous. That is why they would require to get HPV vaccinated first and the reason that most females get throat cancer is because they give “head” where the virus would focus on the throat. Lol

But HPV does not discriminate and would also infect males. BUT, like I've said it before and I'LL said it again, PREVENTION IS ALWAYS THE CURE RATHER THAN THE MEDICINE.

Quote
That's analgesia.  Anesthesia is about sensation or in the case of general anesthesia it's about keeping you unconscious.  The point is to allow doctors to perform another procedure with a higher chance of success and lower probability of injury.  Anesthesia is expensive because it has a narrow therapeutic range and serious consequences if not done properly.  The insurance an anesthesiologist needs to have can cost between $4000 and $54000 per year.

NO matter what the name is, you pay BIG money so you can't feel the  pain (you will still feel it the upcoming days). My brother was more worried about dying than the pain WHILE THE HOSPITAL WAS MORE FOCUSING ON EMTYING HIS POCKETS/WALLET! My brother was in the verge of dying and the doctor asked him while his face was bleeding and him worrying about dying “sir, do you want anesthesia or no? If you do, $800 would be added to your bill." While my brother was in tears and blood dripping from his head. True facts! Hospitals treat people like farm animals. I hope you never need to step inside a hospital as a patient.

Quote
Joel could you take your whining somewhere else.  Sure doctors aren't poor but they also have costs that are beyond the means of many people as well.  You could just as easily complain about plumbers or electricians or any other professional occupation.

It is pretty obvious that you are bias towards all medical endeavors. You will just turn a blind eye so the only way for you to learn is when you actually get cancer yourself and have to deal with all of the suffering of it all.

You will eventually see it when one of your parents goes through it or one of your of springs too. It's inevitable in the way of greed. Millions don't cure viruses! How can one million dollar cure a simple flu virus strain?

I'm young, I'm healthy for the most part so i'm not whining for my health. I'm just speaking about how I cannot picture myself operating on a human and NOT OPERATE ON A HVAC motor the same. Doctors have it easy because the human body heals itself. The doctor is only helping the IMMUNITY OF THE BODY. The doctor is not a miracle worker.

I'm not whining at all. Heck, I should enter the medical field myself and get my pockets fat. Which I should also enter in the oil field too. Money money money sweet money. Give me money sark I need money to live a healthy life.

Sark, how much money can you give me?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 25, 2015, 04:31:12 PM
Due to the contrary beliefs females are very very promiscuous.
No, due to the prevalence of the virus in women.
Quote
But HPV does not discriminate and would also infect males.
It will but as males do not get cervical cancer and most of the data we have about other sequlae is for females and we only know that the vaccine prevents HPV-16 (and 18) and that HPV-16 is correlated with throat cancer.  So vaccinating males is an open question.
Quote
PREVENTION IS ALWAYS THE CURE RATHER THAN THE MEDICINE
Yawn.  As vaccines are preventative measures I'll take this to mean you support universal HPV vaccination. :)
Quote
NO matter what the name is, you pay BIG money so you can't feel the  pain
It depends on a number of things.  Most of the time anesthetic is used to keep people from interfering with a procedure.
Quote
My brother was more worried about dying than the pain WHILE THE HOSPITAL WAS MORE FOCUSING ON EMTYING HIS POCKETS/WALLET! My brother was in the verge of dying and the doctor asked him while his face was bleeding and him worrying about dying “sir, do you want anesthesia or no? If you do, $800 would be added to your bill." While my brother was in tears and blood dripping from his head. True facts! Hospitals treat people like farm animals.
So people usually ask farm animals "Would you like pain medication?" - Is that what you do?  Talk to farm animals?  Do they talk back?
If we're assuming that anesthetic was not medically necessary then giving someone a choice for something that isn't necessary for a procedure is exactly  the opposite of how you treat farm animals.  You don't give them a choice.  Even if they had not given him a choice depending on the details of the case it may well be in the patients best interest.
Quote
I hope you never need to step inside a hospital as a patient.
I have, and have had no complaints.  Maybe that's because stupid people like you are microchipped at birth and the shadowgovernment issues scanners to medical personnel which allows them to make sure they get the worst treatment...or you're just wrong?
Quote
It is pretty obvious that you are bias towards all medical endeavors.
Dude, all you provided was a cost for a few procedures.  Your numbers were considerably off in at least one case.  Then without knowing the procedures done, the cost in equipment and facilities I'm supposed to conclude that this is all about greed. Are you really that clueless about how businesses are run?  So that's why you just sound like an enormous whiner.
Quote
Doctors have it easy because the human body heals itself.
LOL - so we can just shut down all the ICU's - throw the people on the street and say "don't worry you'll just get better".  You have to be pretty stupid to think that.
Quote
I'm not whining at all.
You sure are, all you gave was the (wrong!) price of some procedures, no information about material costs and facilities.  All it was was sour grapes.
Quote
Heck, I should enter the medical field myself and get my pockets fat.
Yes that would be amusing to see you try and pass the medical board exams with "viruses eat other viruses" or "viruses have an immune system".  I would definitely pay money to see that.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 25, 2015, 04:57:16 PM
Wakefield is not a fraud - His study linking MMR vaccine to autism vindicatedLearn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/048753_Wakefield_study_MMR_vaccine_autism.html#ixzz3Sjb7FEzT (http://www.naturalnews.com/048753_Wakefield_study_MMR_vaccine_autism.html#ixzz3Sjb7FEzT)
Only someone who didn't read or understand either Wakefield or DeStefano et. al. could write something like that.  I can explain but I doubt you're interested. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on February 26, 2015, 02:05:09 AM
The most read article at Natural News today.... ;)


Gardasil: The decision we will always regrethttp://www.naturalnews.com/048745_Gardasil_vaccine_injury_Big_Pharma.html


Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 26, 2015, 02:11:03 AM

That is why they would require to get HPV vaccinated first and the reason that most females get throat cancer is because they give “head” where the virus would focus on the throat. Lol



Do you have the phone numbers for these females?  I am just curious...it's not like I was going to call them or anything.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 26, 2015, 02:38:39 AM
Gardasil: The decision we will always regrethttp://www.naturalnews.com/048745_Gardasil_vaccine_injury_Big_Pharma.html
There are more than a few problems with that article.  I'd be happy to point them out but you're not really interested are you?   All you seem to want is something that is parallel to your pre-existing beliefs.  Nothing to make you think too hard.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 26, 2015, 02:44:30 AM
A Heartwarming Story of True Love (http://www.zengardner.com/healing-field-new-understanding-miracles/)

Mind Control through Cognitive Dissonance
 (http://www.zengardner.com/news-mind-control-cognitive-dissonance/)
25 Facts about Big Pharma, Vaccines and Anti-Vaxxers (http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/25-facts-about-the-pharmaceutical-industry-vaccines-and-anti-vaxers/)


In the Plans for America:
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 26, 2015, 02:57:27 AM
A Heartwarming Story of True Love (http://www.zengardner.com/healing-field-new-understanding-miracles/)

Mind Control through Cognitive Dissonance
 (http://www.zengardner.com/news-mind-control-cognitive-dissonance/)
Back to felating your usual haunts eh?

That image was pretty awesome in it's artlessness.  The word "MANDATORY" on the sleeve.  Because everyone who is in any kind of enforcement puts verbs on their cuffs.  It's a shame there isn't a local art contest for propaganda.  This might have a shot in the poster division.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 26, 2015, 03:06:43 AM
This quote is particularly hilarious: "We recently consulted Katie's LLMD and also her Primary Care Physician, who reviewed Katie's vaccine log and extensive medical records. Both agree that Katie's immune system was injured by the Gardasil vaccine and that it was the catalyst to her cascading health problems and chronic illness."

How does anyone read...or write that with a straight face.   I mean clearly there is a distrust of most medical practitioners when it comes to people who are against vaccines but you think the distrust would come from some form of rational skepticism.  I mean if you're not going to believe everything that comes out of the mouth of most medical professionals why would you believe anything that comes out of the mouth of medical professionals when it happens to align with some of your own ideas or satisfies some internal needs.

Do you really think you're better off doing that?

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 26, 2015, 03:09:04 AM
Back to felating your usual haunts eh?

That image was pretty awesome in it's artlessness.  The word "MANDATORY" on the sleeve.  Because everyone who is in any kind of enforcement puts verbs on their cuffs.  It's a shame there isn't a local art contest for propaganda.  This might have a shot in the poster division.

Sark:

I think he was just needling you.  He was taking a stab at making a point.  I believe he was just attempting to inject some humor in this topic.

OK, I'll stop now.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on February 26, 2015, 03:13:39 AM
There are more than a few problems with that article.  I'd be happy to point them out but you're not really interested are you?   All you seem to want is confirmation of your pre-existing beliefs.

Well of course you find a few problems with the article.  You seem to find issues with every article we post.  ;)   You have that right. Just as everyone has the right to read the articles and 'think' for themselves. ;)

You push to water down every possible negative aspect of vacs presented, as if you were from one of the companies that make them. ;) This is a free energy research site that just happens to have a thread on vacs, and this thread is what you concentrate most of your time on. Seemingly all day long, 7 days a week. 8) ;)

Anyway, carry on.  ;D

Mags

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 26, 2015, 03:14:17 AM
I think he was just needling you.  He was taking a stab at making a point.  I believe he was just attempting to inject some humor in this topic.
I feel like a pincushion.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 26, 2015, 03:15:28 AM
I feel like a pincushion.

So do those poor bastards in that photo..ha ha.  Since it is a government run operation, that crew did not realize that 2 other crews had already been out in that neighborhood in the past 5 days.  So now, they have been vaccinated 3 times waiting on the next crew to show up.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 26, 2015, 03:25:12 AM
Well of course you find a few problems with the article.  You seem to find issues with every article we post.
Because of the simple fact that a) Most of the articles are rehashing a few things which have been rebutted so many times it's hardly even funny and b) none of you can tell good evidence from bad.  Seriously none of you could sustain even a short discussion on evidence evaluation and have anything useful to say.
Quote
Just as everyone has the right to read the articles and 'think' for themselves. ;)
It's not about rights.  Why would peoples rights be at all relevant here?  What is relevant is virtually all of you are uncritical with what you post and are unable or to afraid to actually have a reasoned discussion about them.  Which makes this thread really just propaganda which actually does affect peoples freedom to act.  Granted there are very few people here to be deceived.
Quote
You push to water down every possible negative aspect of vacs presented
No I simply disagree with people like you Cap-Z-ro, SeaMonkey and realcanadian putting up the most ignorant of people on pedestals to the point where you simply will not accept any questioning of their testimony.
Quote
This is a free energy research site that just happens to have a thread on vacs, and this thread is what you concentrate most of your time on. Seemingly all day long, 7 days a week. 8) ;)
Everyone here knows my story.  If you weren't so focused on being gullible you would know it too. :)

...and again it's noted that you are not at all interested in anything wrong with that article. :) :)  Telling.  No?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on February 26, 2015, 03:38:48 AM
This quote is particularly hilarious: "We recently consulted Katie's LLMD and also her Primary Care Physician, who reviewed Katie's vaccine log and extensive medical records. Both agree that Katie's immune system was injured by the Gardasil vaccine and that it was the catalyst to her cascading health problems and chronic illness."

How does anyone read...or write that with a straight face.   I mean clearly there is a distrust of most medical practitioners when it comes to people who are against vaccines but you think the distrust would come from some form of rational skepticism.  I mean if you're not going to believe everything that comes out of the mouth of most medical professionals why would you believe anything that comes out of the mouth of medical professionals when it happens to align with some of your own ideas or satisfies some internal needs.

Do you really think you're better off doing that?

"We recently consulted Katie's LLMD and also her Primary Care Physician, who reviewed Katie's vaccine log and extensive medical records. Both agree that Katie's immune system was injured by the Gardasil vaccine and that it was the catalyst to her cascading health problems and chronic illness."


Hmmm. Hilarious??  How could anyone read or write that with a straight face??   

That is what you find problematic with the article, your odd sense of humor???? Thats all you got?? Thats your water down???  lol 

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 26, 2015, 03:44:36 AM
"We recently consulted Katie's LLMD and also her Primary Care Physician, who reviewed Katie's vaccine log and extensive medical records. Both agree that Katie's immune system was injured by the Gardasil vaccine and that it was the catalyst to her cascading health problems and chronic illness."
Quote
That is what you find problematic with the article, your odd sense of humor???? Thats all you got?? Thats your water down???
Well I'll take that as showing at least some interest in the problems with the article.  Ok, think - an alien thing for you I know - how would a PC or the LLMD make the determination that all of these myriad (excluding for the moment the likely case that they're somewhat exaggerated) conditions were caused by Gardasil.

Seriously.  I want to hear your thoughts on the medical diagnostics used to come to this conclusion.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on February 26, 2015, 06:07:00 AM
Food for thought: How truth became Truth (http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/facebook-conspiracy-theorists-fooled-even-most-obvious-anti-science-trolling-study) and why facts don't matter anymore.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 26, 2015, 07:17:50 AM
Thanks for the link Orbut 3000.  It is an excellent
example of Desperate Propaganda.

Very amusing to say the least.

Truth cannot be stopped.  Truth Marches On.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 26, 2015, 07:30:22 AM
Quote
http://www.naturalnews.com/048745_Gardasil_vaccine_injury_Big_Pharma.html
Thats sad. = 20 pills a day. Even 100 pills will not cure anything. BU having to swallow 20 pills a day.

I see two bright sides of the story.

1- the doctors that vaccinated her crippled her immunity to understand how a vaccines cripples some people.

2- Stephen hawking was suppose to die a loooong time a go ang he has a bright mind.

He recently predicted that humanity will die in 200 years. "softly"

YOU COULD HAVE PREVENTED ALL OF THIS BY AVOIDING HPV VACCINATIONS IN THE FIRST PLACE AND TEACHING YOUR DAUGHTER NOT TO SLEEP AROUND LIKE A DRUG ADDICT. I'm Just trying to say that all medicine treat people like ill people when we are not really.

I have learned through out life that doctors believe that everyone is a drug addict! SO they carelessly inject "drug addicts" with medicine.

That's just sad. BUT there is a phenomena that the mind can due miracles, like I mentioned stephen Hawkin. He is crippled but with a great mind. He was supposed to die a long time ago said by "professionals"

It is 100% obvious that prevention is the only medicine. There is no medicine that cures the "virus"....only thing that kills people is GREED! Thats sad.









Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on February 26, 2015, 07:34:12 AM

[/font]Thanks for the link Orbut 3000.  It is an excellentexample of Desperate Propaganda.Very amusing to say the least.Truth cannot be stopped.  Truth Marches On.
[/font]

But 'Truth' can not be discussed. Can't be scrutinized. The special flavor of upper caps TRUTH you promote is write only.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 26, 2015, 07:47:56 AM
I have already mention this a lot of times.

This is not only in the vaccinations this is also in the materialistic stuff like your computer, stove, refrigerator, car, house...


The cancer is greed that kills more people and the only reason why there is war and STUPIDITY!

The folks “up top” just want to treat everyone as an idiot. And they will vaccinate everyone as they wish be it best for them and not be it best for everyone!

Just look at any female in an advertisement?

Just look at any “super model” walk in a “run way”?

Those people are actually very ill in the brain! Not one of the designers atrocious Gay dress designs have been seen in the streets... example..


I can even picture the gay guys saying, ewww that is not what we would desing!

Another example of greed. You think a doctor is healthy in the brain? He may be more sick than you are! Pretty sad stuff!

Ignorance is the bliss of ignorance.

Knowledge is the the bliss of understanding = happiness/true life.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 26, 2015, 02:58:49 PM
Thats sad. = 20 pills a day. Even 100 pills will not cure anything. BU having to swallow 20 pills a day.
...and probably an exaggeration.  People who have 20 prescription meds are usually people in their 60s or later.  Often coming from moving from doctor to doctor and having a high number of refills on a script.  Patient doesn't disclose these to the new doc and ends up with more scripts.   Even so it's pretty rare.  11 scripts per person per year is about the average and even that doesn't translate into 11 pills a day (or even one).
Quote
YOU COULD HAVE PREVENTED ALL OF THIS BY AVOIDING HPV VACCINATIONS IN THE FIRST PLACE AND TEACHING YOUR DAUGHTER NOT TO SLEEP AROUND LIKE A DRUG ADDICT.
Probably not, because it's probably not related to HPV.  Again math is a good thing to learn.
Quote
I'm Just trying to say that all medicine treat people like ill people when we are not really.
Vaccines are prevention.  Not treatment.
Quote
That's just sad. BUT there is a phenomena that the mind can due miracles, like I mentioned stephen Hawkin. He is crippled but with a great mind. He was supposed to die a long time ago said by "professionals"
Nice deliberate spelling error there.  Hawkings has a rare variant of ALS it's early onset and slow-progression.  He is getting worse all the time just much more slowly than other ALS sufferers and thankfully it's not hit his respiratory systems which is how most ALS patients die.   

Quote
It is 100% obvious that prevention is the only medicine
...and vaccines are prevention so Joel is in favor of vaccination. :) (He just can't admit it here folks...so don't bug him about it)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 26, 2015, 04:44:15 PM
Quote from: Orbut 3000


But 'Truth' can not be discussed. Can't be scrutinized. The special flavor of upper caps TRUTH you promote is write only.

TRUTH is internalized by fearlessly examining
numerous sources of Information; particularly
those The Establishment would like to lead you
away from.

You may discuss your TRUTH if you like.  Others
may find that it is not in agreement with their
TRUTH.  We are all deceived to some extent and
therefore our personal TRUTHs will differ.

We must never stop searching for TRUTH in all
things.  Those who LOVE MONEY have much invested
in propagating The Lie.  Deceiving others is essential
to the accomplishment of their goals.  A deceived and
complacent population will fall for anything.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 26, 2015, 05:35:51 PM
TRUTH is internalized by fearlessly examining numerous sources of Information
Oh please.  What you do is casually post anything that you already agree with.

For example:
Number of zengardner posts fearlessly examined by you:0
Number of zengardner posts you jerk off to: Pretty much all of them.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 26, 2015, 06:49:53 PM
Quote from: S-ar-Ke-i-Zzzzzzz-en
Oh please.  What you do is casually post anything that you already agree with.

For example:
Number of zengardner posts fearlessly examined by you:0
Number of zengardner posts you jerk off to: Pretty much all of them.

Finding sources of Information promoted by The
Establishment (Dis-Information and Propaganda)
is not a problem for the vast majority.  We're virtually
inundated with the Establishment Line 24/7.

The links we've provided are to sources which are
not as readily discovered.  All who are interested
may examine them and come to their own conclusions.
They are free to make whatever determination they'd
like.

Thanks, by the way, for allowing us once again to peer
into the internal workings of your mind and the sorts
of recreational activities you pursue.  You're a bit of a
weirdo aren't you Sarkey?

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on February 26, 2015, 06:57:21 PM
Well I'll take that as showing at least some interest in the problems with the article.  Ok, think - an alien thing for you I know - how would a PC or the LLMD make the determination that all of these myriad (excluding for the moment the likely case that they're somewhat exaggerated) conditions were caused by Gardasil.

Seriously.  I want to hear your thoughts on the medical diagnostics used to come to this conclusion.

"Ok, think - an alien thing for you I know - how would a PC or the LLMD make the determination that all of these myriad (excluding for the moment the likely case that they're somewhat exaggerated) conditions were caused by Gardasil."


Well, the 'first' thing would be TIMING.  ;)   If the symptoms were very soon after the vacs, like a lot of the cases show, would you say it is completely wrong to possibly suspect the vac???  My boss, his daughter got her first shot 2 years ago. The next day, blurred vision. Still has blurred vision.  But according to you, it could not be the vac. Thats just who you are. 8) ;)

Luckily the patient in the article had doctors that 'admit' that there is a problem with vacs. Many doctors beat around the vac bush, just like you. ;)

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on February 26, 2015, 06:59:49 PM
Public comment period on government's plan to foment vaccine hysteria and mandate vaccination ends May 19
Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/048773_mandatory_vaccination_propaganda_comment_period.html#ixzz3SsK7a3WI (http://www.naturalnews.com/048773_mandatory_vaccination_propaganda_comment_period.html#ixzz3SsK7a3WI)



NPR keeps lying to you about vaccines: here's the truth
Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/048776_HPV_vaccine_propaganda_NPR.html#ixzz3SsKIBwNA (http://www.naturalnews.com/048776_HPV_vaccine_propaganda_NPR.html#ixzz3SsKIBwNA)



Mags
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Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 26, 2015, 07:28:20 PM
Finding sources of Information promoted by The Establishment (Dis-Information and Propaganda) is not a problem for the vast majority.
Please find the contents of DeStefano et. al 2004.  I'll start a clock.
Quote
The links we've provided are to sources which are not as readily discovered.
Please point out an actual published study covered in one of your links which is "not readily discovered".

As I've said all you do is link barely cogent articles which recycle a bunch of tropes which are generally speaking already discredited.  A small computer program could replace the bulk of what you do.
Quote
Thanks, by the way, for allowing us once again to peer into the internal workings of your mind and the sorts of recreational activities you pursue.  You're a bit of a weirdo aren't you Sarkey?
I'm not the one jerking off to zengardner....:)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 26, 2015, 07:32:21 PM
Well, the 'first' thing would be TIMING.  ;)   If the symptoms were very soon after the vacs, like a lot of the cases show, would you say it is completely wrong to possibly suspect the vac???
So according to you there is some time period which makes it highly likely that an event is causative.  What time period is that?  Remember the mothers article seems pretty confident so I'd figure we're talking at least 80% confidence.
My boss, his daughter got her first shot 2 years ago. The next day, blurred vision. Still has blurred vision.  But according to you, it could not be the vac. Thats just who you are. 8) ;)
If you learned to read at some point you would see that I'm saying two things here:

i) It is highly unlikely that the symptoms in the article you posted are related to Gardasil.
ii) One would have to be insanely ridiculously and almost entirely stupid to claim that there is some way of determining this based on a single case examined weeks out (probably the case with the GP) let alone many months out (LLMD).
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on February 27, 2015, 12:22:06 AM
So according to you there is some time period which makes it highly likely that an event is causative.  What time period is that?  Remember the mothers article seems pretty confident so I'd figure we're talking at least 80% confidence.If you learned to read at some point you would see that I'm saying two things here:

i) It is highly unlikely that the symptoms in the article you posted are related to Gardasil.
ii) One would have to be insanely ridiculously and almost entirely stupid to claim that there is some way of determining this based on a single case examined weeks out (probably the case with the GP) let alone many months out (LLMD).

Ah. So the GP and LLMD should never take into account the facts that the issues Katie was experiencing began within 5 days of the shot? That info is null and void?


"Katie's earliest symptoms began after receiving this vaccine. We searched the internet but only found vague information -- nothing that matched our daughter's symptoms."


"We asked Katie's pediatrician and other specialists if the Gardasil vaccine (http://www.naturalnews.com/vaccine.html) could be related to her symptoms but our inquiries were quickly dismissed as not having any correlation to her illness."


You seem to declare that it is impossible to diagnose if the vac caused the symptoms.  Well then, How would these docs know any better if it was caused by the vac??? ;)   Just denial.


"Katie's earliest symptoms were a constant headache or migraine that did not respond to pain relievers, stabbing 24/7 bilateral ear (http://www.naturalnews.com/ear.html) pain, fatigue not relieved by sleep, abdominal pain, nausea and joint pain. We called and visited her pediatrician repeatedly. We began taking Katie to specialists including Neurologists, ENT's, GI, and an OBGYN and made several visits to the Emergency Room. Katie also received many blood tests, CAT scans and an MRI. Nothing any of the doctors did relieved Katie's symptoms."

Yup, These guys didnt know what they were doing. ::) No help from them. ;)



"As a matter of fact, the drugs prescribed to alleviate her symptoms only made her feel worse."

Yup. Bunch of docs that have the audacity of denial, but dont know what is wrong.  Or do they?? ;)

"Our pediatrician and other doctors involved with Katie's care began suggesting that her illness was psychosomatic and recommended that we take her to a psychologist. We soon found that we were on our own,"

More denial. ;)



"When searching the internet with Katie's symptoms, Lyme disease (http://www.naturalnews.com/disease.html) would always come up as the search result. In addition to asking all of Katie's doctors if the Gardasil vaccine was the cause of Katie's illness, we also began asking if Lyme disease could be the culprit. In October 2010, Katie was first tested for Lyme disease. The results were negative as were two later rounds of testing."

Isnt it funny that none of the previous doctors had even thought of lime disease before the family looked up the symptoms? Why? Because they knew it wasnt lime disease that stared it all. ::) ;)


" We read on the internet that ELISA and Western Blot tests for Lyme disease are unreliable and that many people who actually had Lyme disease tested negative. Since this information is all over the internet, we thought it was common knowledge to doctors as well. Instead, we were emphatically told by doctor after doctor that this was not true, that the testing for Lyme disease is highly reliable and that there was no way Katie had Lyme disease."

Hmm.  ??? ......


"Katie could no longer go to school or participate in dance or cheerleading -- the pain and fatigue was all consuming. Nothing any of the doctors did provided any relief yet every doctor refused to consider Lyme disease or that the Gardasil vaccine was related to her illness."

Yup. All those docs. They know everything. Trust them with your life. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)



"Katie's list of symptoms included the following: 24/7 headaches and migraines, 24/7 stabbing ear pain, hyperacusis, fatigue, abdominal pain, nausea, all over joint pain, constant sore throat, visual disturbances, light sensitivity, cognitive issues such as memory and severe comprehension problems, random numbness and tingling, weird "bug crawling" skin sensations, generalized weakness throughout her body (it was difficult for Katie to just sit in the shower to bathe), dizziness, fainting and heart palpitations. She slept long hours and stayed in her bedroom shielding herself from the noise of everyday living."


"In May, we requested testing through a lab specializing in tick-borne disease testing. Katie's pediatrician reluctantly signed the lab Requisition Form. This time the test results showed that Katie was highly positive for Bartonella Henselae, a tick-borne disease also known as a co-infection to Lyme disease. She was also highly positive for Mycoplasma Pneumonia and the testing showed that her immune system was struggling. Katie's Western Blot for Lyme disease was negative."

Oh, but the blot testing is suppose to be sooo accurate.  Great bunch of docs. ??? ::) ;)



"We took those results with us to a long awaited CHOP Diagnostic Center appointment (think the "Dr. House" of the Children's Hospital) and also to her CHOP Neurologist. Katie even had the classic Bartonella rash (looks like purple and red stretch marks) surrounding her breasts and hips which is confirmation of an active Bartonella infection. Both doctors told us that these test results only showed that Katie was "exposed" to Bartonella -- it did not mean she had an active infection. Both came to the same conclusion that her Bartonella rash was actually just stretch marks. That was particularly hard for us to believe. Katie was muscular and lean from years of dance and cheer."

Isnt that terrible that cheerleaders get those stretch marks from all that exercise? ::)



"Neither doctor was concerned about her blazing Mycoplasma Pneumonia infection nor was the fact that the testing showed her immune system impaired."

More denial from every vantage point. ::)



"Instead, CHOP Diagnostic Center diagnosed Katie with the beginning stages of Dysautonomia (a malfunctioning automatic nervous system). We were told that there was no cure and that symptoms were managed with medications."

Ooo. Docs take the easy way out. Blame game. ;)



"The CHOP Neurologist wasn't in agreement with CHOP Diagnostic Center; instead she stuck to her prior diagnosis -- Chronic Migraine Disorder with Chronic Ear Pain Neuralgia. The Neurologist recommended that we continue with the same treatment of 20 pills a day even though it did absolutely nothing for Katie other than increase her nausea and head pain. We felt utter disbelief, despair and anger."

CHOP vs CHOP.   Chop sueeee.



"We found our way to a local support group for those suffering with tick-borne diseases, which provided recommendations to LLMD's (Lyme Literate Medical Doctors). Katie's first appointment with an LLMD was in June 2011. This physician spent an hour reviewing blood tests and other medical reports we collected and asked a lot of questions that had never been asked before. He clinically diagnosed Katie with Lyme disease and agreed with the test results that reported active infections with Bartonella Henselae and Mycoplasma Pneumonia."

Soooo, maybe all the previous docs should have a drink and give themselves big bonuses. ::) ;)



"He told us that Katie was very sick. Ironically, upon hearing that news we felt utter relief. This was the first doctor, since Katie's illness began over nine months before that acknowledged she was ill.Well, ok. No bonuses for the previous docs. ::) ;) ;)



"Since that time, Katie was diagnosed with chronic Strep, HHV6, hypo-coagulation, susceptibility to bio-toxin illness (mold and environmental sensitivities) and has acquired autoimmune thyroid disease."

 :'(



"After Katie was finally diagnosed with tick-borne diseases, we put our initial suspicion about the Gardasil vaccine aside. Since the treatment of tick-borne diseases is considered emerging medicine, I am always combing the internet for new information on tick-borne diseases, the latest research or treatments. To our utter disbelief, I came across an article reporting that the Gardasil vaccine can activate a latent Bartonella infection that was otherwise being suppressed by a properly functioning immune system prior to vaccination. We now believe our earliest suspicion was correct.

The 'Ah Hah" moment.  Katie is not the only one.  And you say it is improbable.  Of course you will water it down once more. ::) ::) ;)



"We found many stories about devastating health changes post-vaccine. These stories are eerily familiar to our daughter's. The Gardasil vaccine is known to activate latent infections and viruses, such as Epstein Barr and Bartonella. The Gardasil vaccine deregulates the immune system and that allows latent infections and viruses, which were kept in check pre-vaccine by a then properly functioning immune system, to activate post-vaccine. Now, there is evidence that the HPV vaccine is linked to the onset of autoimmune diseases.Another Ah Hah.  This drinks on me. ;)




"We recently consulted Katie's LLMD and also her Primary Care Physician, who reviewed Katie's vaccine log and extensive medical records. Both agree that Katie's immune system was injured by the Gardasil vaccine and that it was the catalyst to her cascading health problems and chronic illness. Katie's LLMD is now treating her for a vaccine injury (http://www.naturalnews.com/vaccine_injury.html) in addition to treating multiple tick-borne diseases, other infections/viruses and autoimmune thyroid disease."

You must be under the belief that multiple ticks have given her multiple tick diseases.  ::) Go on, and post that there probably isnt treatment for vac injuries, mostly because you believe that vacs dont injure people. Right??? ::) ::) ;)




"We deeply regret consenting to the Gardasil vaccine. We had no idea of the severe side effects some experience post vaccine. Every day, we wish we had been more informed. Parents beware of blindly following your doctor's recommended vaccine schedule. Do not rely or expect your doctor to know everything. You must do your own research and ask plenty of questions. Our family found out the hard way that it is possible for a vaccine to have lasting and devastating effects."

Amen to that. ;)


Here is a site that has many articles on vacs and people that had problems. This site below is the source for Katies story.

http://sanevax.org/ (http://sanevax.org/)



Mags
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Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 27, 2015, 12:42:14 AM
Ah. So the GP and LLMD should never take into account the facts that the issues Katie was experiencing began within 5 days of the shot? That info is null and void?
Read what I wrote.  When you learn that skill.  Get back to me. :)
Quote
You seem to declare that it is impossible to diagnose if the vac caused the symptoms.
Actually what I've said is that it's stupid to make that claim.  There are stupid doctors and - if Katies mom is communicating their opinions accurately - these are two of them.  Tyranny of the normal distribution. 

Again I've asked you a question and you are trying very hard to avoid it.   The only thing you've clearly pointed out as an diagnosis tool for "this was caused by Gardasil" is timing.   Please let me know, in order to get the high degree of confidence that Katie's mom - what is the longest period after an event for which this level of confidence can be conferred.  Are you saying that any event within 5 days is 80% correlated?

Again, simple clear answers would be appreciated. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 27, 2015, 01:42:50 AM
Quote from: Sa-r-Ke-i-Zzzzzzz-en
...
I'm not the one jerking off to zengardner.... :)

Sarkey,

You've already let this cat out of the bag.  You've
revealed to all who read your postings that you're
just a tad fixated on things 'auto-erotic.'  By the way,
it is well established that those who are addicted to
The Love of Money are likewise addicted to what you
have told us your secret craving is. :o

You can try like the Devil on this one but it is way past
too late to weasel out.  Trying desperately to pin your
weird behaviors on others is just about the oldest trick
in the book.  Next to Ladies of the Night we're told... :o

If you'd care to share more about your secret proclivities
you might even score a 'date' with a like-minded reader
somewhere in these parts.  If such a thing exists, that is. :o

Ach!  The Weirdness of it all! :o
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 27, 2015, 01:44:44 AM
You've already let this cat out of the bag.
That you're jerking off to zengardner? It's a euphemism. You don't actually have to admit that you do that.  This is just a forum, not "true confessions" or some other equally dated reference that you'd relate to. :)

While you were fixated on my exposing your particular pr0n preference.  You forgot about these comments...so I'll just remind you here. :)
Finding sources of Information promoted by The Establishment (Dis-Information and Propaganda) is not a problem for the vast majority.
Please find the contents of DeStefano et. al 2004.  I'll start a clock.
Quote
The links we've provided are to sources which are not as readily discovered.
Please point out an actual published study covered in one of your links which is "not readily discovered".

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on February 27, 2015, 02:40:22 AM
Read what I wrote.  When you learn that skill.  Get back to me. :)Actually what I've said is that it's stupid to make that claim.  There are stupid doctors and - if Katies mom is communicating their opinions accurately - these are two of them.  Tyranny of the normal distribution. 

Again I've asked you a question and you are trying very hard to avoid it.   The only thing you've clearly pointed out as an diagnosis tool for "this was caused by Gardasil" is timing.   Please let me know, in order to get the high degree of confidence that Katie's mom - what is the longest period after an event for which this level of confidence can be conferred.  Are you saying that any event within 5 days is 80% correlated?

Again, simple clear answers would be appreciated. :)


"Read what I wrote.  When you learn that skill.  Get back to me. :)Actually what I've said is that it's stupid to make that claim."

Well golly gee.  If thats all you got, "it's stupid to make that claim", then, thats all you got. ;) I guess because you said it, all should follow. ::)

Yeah, I read you calling everyone stupid, and ridiculous and such.  That has zero substance.  Just because you continually call people stupid, that is encouragement for them to agree with your vac pushing??  lol.  Pretty weak reasoning if you ask me. Actually kinda 'stupid' really. ;)

Lookin more n more like a shill, every page. ;)


Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 27, 2015, 03:13:20 AM
Well golly gee.  If thats all you got, "it's stupid to make that claim", then, thats all you got.
So you won't answer my question? This is the second time it's passed without even a comment. Interesting.  Should I start assuming you're afraid of answering it or something?
Quote
That has zero substance.
Of course what I'm saying has substance.  However I did warn you that you would need to think a bit.   Am I correct that you can't even provide the tiny amount of information I requested?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on February 27, 2015, 03:57:01 AM
So you won't answer my question? This is the second time it's passed without even a comment. Interesting.  Should I start assuming you're afraid of answering it or something?Of course what I'm saying has substance.  However I did warn you that you would need to think a bit.   Am I correct that you can't even provide the tiny amount of information I requested?

http://sanevax.org/sanevax-announces-medical-surprise-gardasil-hpv-dna-dicsovered-post-mortem/ (http://sanevax.org/sanevax-announces-medical-surprise-gardasil-hpv-dna-dicsovered-post-mortem/)

I will answer you with a comment posted in the link above.....

" SaneVax’ work is serious, most impressive and admirable. The team’s Mission is to promote Safe, Affordable, Necessary & Efficient vaccines and vaccination practices through education and information.

However, the whole vaccine safety issue is turned upside down.

 It is not vaccine critics who must provide evidence that vaccines are dangerous; it is the vaccine promoters’ responsibility to prove that vaccines are safe and effective and that the benefits outweigh the risks.” – Marcella Piper-Terry.
The vaccine promoters, including Merck the manufacturer and health authorities have not proved that Gardasil is safe, effective and that the benefits outweigh the risks. They are unable to do this. They know so little about the vaccine that it is utterly impossible for the risks to be weighed against possible benefits. Consequently, there are no grounds whatsoever on which safety may be evaluated.
SaneVax has posed new and extremely relevant questions regarding Gardasil. These may be added to this already long yet incomplete list of unanswered questions."
 ;D


So. You are selling it. You 'prove' your arguments.  Heck, your gunna be hear 24/7, start putting up your medical research from your laboratory and prove your sales pitch. Im the customer. Sell Mortimer sell! ;)



 http://vactruth.com/2011/11/04/27-dirty-little-vaccine-secrets/ (http://vactruth.com/2011/11/04/27-dirty-little-vaccine-secrets/)
 
http://sanevax.org/hpv-vaccine-controversy-colombia-continues/ (http://sanevax.org/hpv-vaccine-controversy-colombia-continues/)

"Carmen de Bolivar, Colombia has become ground zero in the international debate over HPV vaccine safety, efficacy, and need. After the administration of the 2nd dose of Gardasil in local schools, beginning in March 2014, hundreds of young girls were admitted to the hospital with mysterious new medical conditions." ??? ;)

"According to local sources, doctors who examined the girls and reported symptoms as possible adverse reactions to the HPV vaccine would often find manufacturer’s representatives in their office the next day trying to convince them otherwise." :o ;)

"The National Ministry of Health (Minsalud) initially put forth several theories to explain the symptoms of over 700 girls including mass hysteria, illicit drug use, and even the excessive use of Ouija boards. They even went so far as to enlist the services of Nobel Prize nominee, Dr. Nubia Muñoz Calero, to help ease the tension. (read more here. (http://sanevax.org/hpv-vaccination-program-colombia-undermining-truth/)) Her message was basically that it would be a mistake to halt the current school-based HPV vaccination programs in Colombia."

The rest is in the link above.


Mags


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 27, 2015, 04:08:13 AM
I will answer you with a comment posted in the link above.....
What you have provided isn't an answer.  This really should be easy for you.  You stated that timing is a clear diagnostic, why can't you tell me the maximum distance required for the likelihood of harm to be 80% (or whatever you believe the likelihood Katie's mother is communicating in the original article).  If you don't know, that's fine but that also means you have no basis for declaring the two doctors opinions for causation as valid.

Anytime you're ready to think I'll be here. If thinking is to hard for you? Well that's what sites like sanevax are for. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 27, 2015, 05:46:25 AM
Sarkey,

You're denial is reminiscent of the type of
dialogue one would expect from a pubescent
teen caught in the act.

Precisely!  Oh well, your deep secret could have
been much worse than an addiction to self-pleasure.

Though it is weird to bring it out into the open in a
forum such as this.  But, what the hay.  Confessions
can be made anywhere and anytime the need arises.

If you're trolling and hoping for a hookup with a
companion this may not be the best of places.  But,
then again, one just never knows.  Stranger things have
happened.

Weird and Strange, for sure...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 27, 2015, 05:58:05 AM
You're denial
That you jerk off to zengardner?  I'm not denying that.  I'm stating it outright - figuratively or at least it was figurative until you decided to confess.

Anyway considering there are a number of other things in my posts other than what you slam your ham to.  Don't you think it's time you take a break and answer some of these questions? :)
Finding sources of Information promoted by The Establishment (Dis-Information and Propaganda) is not a problem for the vast majority.
Please find the contents of DeStefano et. al 2004.  I'll start a clock.
Quote
The links we've provided are to sources which are not as readily discovered.
Please point out an actual published study covered in one of your links which is "not readily discovered".
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on February 27, 2015, 06:47:33 AM
CDC doctor granted official whistleblower status after warning about vaccine autism coverup
Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/048790_autism_vaccines_CDC_whistleblower.html#ixzz3Sv9qjaw5 (http://www.naturalnews.com/048790_autism_vaccines_CDC_whistleblower.html#ixzz3Sv9qjaw5)





"Thompson said that he and other CDC scientists intentionally fudged the results, manipulating the pool of children they analyzed and limiting the proper number of African-American children from participating. The authors limited black children from showing up in the results by excluding babies without a state of Georgia birth certificate."





Same government that says unvaccinated children can spread disease insists genetically altered open-air crops cannot spread genetic pollution
Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/048789_vaccination_GMOs_genetic_pollution.html#ixzz3SvC5z6pb (http://www.naturalnews.com/048789_vaccination_GMOs_genetic_pollution.html#ixzz3SvC5z6pb)


"Numerous scientific studies indicate that children who receive a live virus vaccination can shed the disease and infect others for weeks or even months afterwards," said Leslie Manookian, documentary filmmaker and producer of The Greater Good (http://www.ageofautism.com/2014/09/leslie-manookian-the-greater-good-movie-on-dr-melinda-wharton.html), a documentary highlighting a lack of clinical trial data comparing the health outcomes of vaccinated versus unvaccinated children.

"Thus, parents who vaccinate their children can indeed put others at risk. ... Vaccine failure and failure to acknowledge that live virus vaccines can spread disease have resulted in an increase in outbreaks of infectious disease in both vaccinated and unvaccinated (http://www.naturalnews.com/unvaccinated.html) individuals. CDC should instruct physicians who administer vaccinations to inform their patients about the risks posed to others by those who've been recently vaccinated."


Mags

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Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 27, 2015, 07:31:17 AM
Sarkey,

I'll try my best to be sensitive and gentle with
this but, really man, you're beginning to sound
a wee bit like a pervert.  All of this obsession with
self-gratification and reproductive organs.

My word man!  The depth of your perversion is
truly shocking!  One can only wonder, how does a
person become so, well, twisted?

Sarkey, have you considered counseling for your
problem?

I'm sure that the readership here finds this all very
amusing.  In a desperately weird and strange sort
of way...

Egads.  How can one proceed with any sense of dignity?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 27, 2015, 08:33:13 AM
Quote
One can only wonder, how does a
person become so, well, twisted?

I myself am scared to find out that this guy is living in a basement with Internet access!. That's spookie in the interwebs and it's not Halloween yet lol.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 27, 2015, 10:05:01 AM
Sark, extent your arm out fully. Scratch the middle of your hand with your finger nails. Now run the the palm over the scratched skin surface. Is the place where you scratched detected by the palm of your hand as heat?

Now scratch you skin and take time how long the skin cools down?

Now then ask yourself why did the skin get heated after you scratched it. This any idiot can do and verify = 100% facts. What is -100% facts is the LACKING of understanding the 100% facts .lol....which you lack sir.

I want to smack your wife/GF in the asz.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 27, 2015, 01:28:14 PM
...guess you're not ready to think. :)
"Thompson said that he and other CDC scientists intentionally fudged the results, manipulating the pool of children they analyzed and limiting the proper number of African-American children from participating. The authors limited black children from showing up in the results by excluding babies without a state of Georgia birth certificate."
Well
a) "intentionally fudged" appear to be words made up by Patric Howley.  Thompsons actual statement can be seen on the website of his lawyer.
b) As I've stated earlier Thompson has made this statement on the basis of a re-analysis by Hooker.  Hooker isn't a statistician which is probably why he used the Chi Squared test in the reanalysis.  His results are more likely to be wrong than the prior results because of this error.
c) Excluding based on not having a birth certificate allows you to control for confounders.
d) If you accept Hooker's study as true, then you automatically refute Wakefield (Assuming today you feel like claiming he is saying something about a neurological condition) and the majority of vaccine injury claims because even Hooker shows that the RR for white and black children < 24 months is small.

Of course all those things would be obvious if you read the study.  Instead you read articles written by morons who don't have a stats degree quoting other people who also are not statisticians about something which is about statistics.   It's like getting advice about neurosurgery third hand through two plumbers.

....and of course you still can't answer my question.   You made the claim that timing is the key element in a diagnosing that a series of events were caused by Gardasil.  You either can state this with confidence or you can't.  If you can then you should be able to tell me roughly the degree of confidence you believe is communicated from Katies mom and - since you are making the claim about timing being the key to diagnosis - what time period is useful for this effect size.

Were I to guess as to why you're refusing to answer this rather simple question it would be that you're afraid your argument would be harmed if you do.  This is a difference between a thinker and a propagandist.  A thinker isn't concerned if their argument is harmed.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 27, 2015, 01:34:00 PM
you're beginning to sound a wee bit like a pervert.
Again I'm not the one felating zengardner. :)
Quote
All of this obsession with
Someone who is obsessed, so someone who ignores other issues to focus on something that's of little consequence....so when you ignore these questions:
Quote
Finding sources of Information promoted by The Establishment (Dis-Information and Propaganda) is not a problem for the vast majority.
Please find the contents of DeStefano et. al 2004.  I'll start a clock.
Quote
The links we've provided are to sources which are not as readily discovered.
Please point out an actual published study covered in one of your links which is "not readily discovered".
That's kind of what you're talking about or when you spend two or three times the words that I do talking about sexual things?

Just sayin'
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 27, 2015, 01:36:58 PM
This any idiot can do and verify = 100% facts. What is -100% facts is the LACKING of understanding the 100% facts .lol....which you lack sir.
The old joel who fakes a language affectation is back - now with 40% more gibberish. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: kEhYo77 on February 27, 2015, 04:08:09 PM
From: 200 Evidence-Based Reasons NOT To Vaccinate (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/200-evidence-based-reasons-not-vaccinate-free-research-pdf-download)
Quote
With this aim in mind, GreenMedInfo.com has painstakingly collected over 300 pages of study abstracts culled directly from the National Library of Medicine's pubmed.gov (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=vaccine) bibliographic database on the wide-ranging adverse health effects linked to vaccines in the today's schedule over 200 distinct adverse effects, including death (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/anti-therapeutic-action/vaccination-all), as well as numerous studies related to vaccine contamination, and vaccine failure in highly vaccine compliant populations.

PDF download (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/sites/default/files/gpub_58635_anti_therapeutic_action_vaccination_all.pdf)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on February 27, 2015, 06:35:22 PM
From: here (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/200-evidence-based-reasons-not-vaccinate-free-research-pdf-download)
PDF download (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/sites/default/files/gpub_58635_anti_therapeutic_action_vaccination_all.pdf)

Very cool. Thanks for posting that. ;)

But get ready for the water down. ::) ;)

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: kEhYo77 on February 27, 2015, 07:40:54 PM
Very cool. Thanks for posting that. ;)

But get ready for the water down. ::) ;)

Mags


No problem, Mags ;)

I hope for the best for all the mankind.

As for the Shhh...

Rise of the Machines (http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Rise_of_the_Machines_video_gamers_beware_999.html)
I think he might be  the new AI BOT! hahah :)
No one sane would behave like it does with a blind denial of the truth...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 27, 2015, 08:00:51 PM
Very cool. Thanks for posting that. ;)

But get ready for the water down. ::) ;)

Mags

kEhYo77,

I'd like to echo what Mags has said.
What is being done by the relatively small number
of Truthers to keep us well informed is incredible
and very much appreciated.

Download link for document (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/sites/default/files/gpub_58635_anti_therapeutic_action_vaccination_all.pdf)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 27, 2015, 08:11:06 PM
Quote from: Sarkey The Lame
...I do talking about sexual things?

Some might call your exposition a Freudian Slip.
The pre-occupation with things 'sexual' does for
certain indicate a weird frame of mind.

Sorry to say Sarkey, you've lost it.  Whatever credibility
you may have enjoyed is gone, vanished.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 27, 2015, 10:36:25 PM
From: here (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/200-evidence-based-reasons-not-vaccinate-free-research-pdf-download)
PDF download (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/sites/default/files/gpub_58635_anti_therapeutic_action_vaccination_all.pdf)
Did you read any of those studies?  My guess is "no".  So let's pick everyone's favorite: MMR

First study is the Cochrane review from 2012.  Which is a collection of studies of different types and sizes.  The conclusion of your PDF document is: "The design and reporting of safety outcomes in MMR vaccine studies, both pre- and post-marketing, are largely inadequate."

So this study was about comparing MMR to monovalent vaccines.  The discussion section begins thus:"We found only limited evidence of the safety of MMR compared to its single component vaccines from studies that had a low risk of bias. The few studies least likely to be affected by systematic error pointed to a likely association with fewer upper respiratory tract infections, increased febrile convulsions in the first two weeks
post vaccination and no increased incidence of aseptic meningitis (for Jeryl-Lynn strain-containing mumps vaccine). Low risk of bias evidence did not support a causal association with Crohn’s disease, ulcerative colitis or autism."

The conclusion is about the large amount of variability in the metrics used by the studies as well as risk of selection bias (particularly in some of the early ones).  As you can see from the above the statement this isn't about saying vaccines are not very safe or effective.  There's a whole conversation to be had around allocation concealment but as anything beyond "Greenmedinfo supplies perfectly unbiased information about fields they have no expertise in" seems to be considered "watering down" I'm sure you'll be more comfortable if you just go back and read some NaturalNews articles that you already agree with. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 27, 2015, 10:42:02 PM
Some might call your exposition a Freudian Slip.
Just nobody who knows what that is would. :)
Quote
The pre-occupation with things 'sexual' does for certain indicate a weird frame of mind.
The fact that you are the one who devotes to most text to said subject I'll assume you're referring to yourself here.

I'll give you another chance to show you're not fixated though :)  How about answering some of these questions...
Quote
Finding sources of Information promoted by The Establishment (Dis-Information and Propaganda) is not a problem for the vast majority.
Please find the contents of DeStefano et. al 2004.  I'll start a clock.
Quote
The links we've provided are to sources which are not as readily discovered.
Please point out an actual published study covered in one of your links which is "not readily discovered".
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 27, 2015, 10:51:55 PM
Very cool. Thanks for posting that. ;)
So what was posted were links to a bunch of studies right?  In two hours you voiced your approval.  Since it's unlikely that you read even that whole pdf in two hours - with your lips moving - it's incredibly unlikely that you read even one of the studies mentioned.

So your approval is based on nothing but the idea that these are studies that show vaccine harm.  Right?  How is that different from deluding yourself?
Quote
But get ready for the water down. ::) ;)
There are only two things I do that you don't.  I read the actual studies involved and I think about them.  That's it. If you could do those two things you would have the same opinions I do.

Considering that you can't answer even the simplest of questions about your positions.  I think the likelihood that you can contribute usefully to any discussion is slim :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on February 27, 2015, 11:19:27 PM
Nope, didnt read them yet. Just was thanking for the post of it. Oh I will read it.  ;)   

Now go fill your water bucket. ;D

Magsimus Leviticus
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 27, 2015, 11:24:29 PM
Nope, didnt read them yet. Just was thanking for the post of it.
Nope.  Otherwise you would thank me for telling you how stupid those other docs were.  You were thanking based on your assumption that it confirms your pre-existing beliefs.  :)
Quote
Oh I will read it.  ;)
Not very well.  You'll just vomit the same quotes - entirely without any consulting of the context from the actual studies.  After all I rather suspect that's what the people who wrote that PDF did. :)

...and you still haven't answered a very simple question about your position that "timing" is the key to diagnosing Gardasil injury. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on February 28, 2015, 12:23:06 AM
No one sane would behave like it does with a blind denial of the truth...
What truth do you imagine I'm denying. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on February 28, 2015, 09:21:09 AM
Quote
the old joel who fakes a language affectation is back

Chinga tu pinche puta perra madre ijo de tu pendeja cara de perra rata madre come mierda rata de dos patas. Tu mama se duerme con mi perro I mi perro se mea en tu mama.


 
Quote
- now with 40% more gibberish.

OK, lets think for a second if your brain is capable of it. We all want to help people live longer as such we all want to live longer?

Since the ONLY way to live longer is to help the sick live longer.

Now millions of years upon millions of years have shown 100% fact that medicine was/is never in any fossil.

Now you believe that medicine is the cure to life all of a sudden?

What was/is the “medicine” to the crocodile after millions of years? You have to understand that the crocodiles have been living for millions of years with out any human medicine.....so what kind of logic do you believe that human made drugs will cure humanity? As a matter of fact, what is your vaccine doing to the water pollution? LOOK PAST YOUR NOSE dude.

But let me step back a little to try to comprehend your neuron mind frequencies. If I tell you that if you step on shit you will smell, you will have stinky feet/foot, will you avoid stepping on shit or will you take medicine to not step on shit?

Do you need medicine to tell you NOT to step on shit? Well why don't you eat shit? Because you got vaccinated right?

You are just confused by greed.

Human medicine is what created you?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 28, 2015, 11:11:19 PM
I am not confused by greed.  I am confused as to why every one is not using JB Weld, or other epoxies, in their daily lives.

I know that I do.  Forget vaccines, JB Weld is the way to go.

Just don't eat it.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 01, 2015, 03:28:39 AM
Chinga tu pinche puta perra madre ijo de tu pendeja cara de perra rata madre come mierda rata de dos patas. Tu mama se duerme con mi perro I mi perro se mea en tu mama.
You might want to look up the word "affectation". :)
Quote
Since the ONLY way to live longer is to help the sick live longer.
For what definition of "sick"?
Quote
Now millions of years upon millions of years have shown 100% fact that medicine was/is never in any fossil.

Now you believe that medicine is the cure to life all of a sudden?
So your argument is effectively: "It hasn't been before, so it can't be now." This is what is called a historical fallacy or an appeal to tradition.  Prior to the shift from hunter/gatherer to agrarian lifespan populations were smaller and more importantly population density was smaller.   Communicable disease is much less important when your population density is considerably smaller than that of Nome, Alaska.  If you want to maintain the current population density then medicine is really your only bet as we've already seen what happens in populations without this.  Preventive medicine such as vaccines are important not just in keeping the population density but also in keeping the cost of it low.  When someone on the Joel-plan-of-killing-people gets a serious reaction to the measles we need to treat it with something like ganciclovir, oseltamivir, aciclovir, zanamivir or ribavirin.   All of these are more expensive and much harder on your body.

Quote
But let me step back a little to try to comprehend your neuron mind frequencies. If I tell you that if you step on shit you will smell, you will have stinky feet/foot, will you avoid stepping on shit or will you take medicine to not step on shit?
The proper course of action is to do what results in the minimizing or maximizing outcomes.  So in the case of viruses we look at the number of cases.  We know, from a number of sources that preventative measures like hand sanitation, personal protective equipment, extensive education and a disease management plan and a site infection diseases specialist is not sufficient to reduce the R0 < 1.  Even when the outcome of not following procedures is a 30% chance of death.  Vaccination has a much better chance of reducing the R0 << 1.  As reducing the R0 not only reduces the number of cases but also the number of mutations.  It is the better choice in controlling the disease and keeping people from dying.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 01, 2015, 06:32:02 AM
EXCLUSIVE: Whitehouse.gov caught freezing vaccine choice petition to prevent signatures from reaching 100,000 threshold
Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/048806_vaccine_petition_White_House_fraud.html#ixzz3T6p5OGnu (http://www.naturalnews.com/048806_vaccine_petition_White_House_fraud.html#ixzz3T6p5OGnu)



"(NaturalNews) A WhiteHouse.gov petition calling for the prohibition of laws requiring mandatory vaccines has been throttled by the White House, buried from public view and finally frozen for over 36 hours to prevent the petition from achieving 100,000 signatures, Natural News can now reveal.

The petition, which was rapidly headed toward the 100,000 signatures needed to trigger a response from the White House, was frozen mid-day Friday and has remained stuck at 56,791 signatures for over 36 hours."

Mags
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Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 01, 2015, 07:19:01 AM
Sark, if you can explain a virus you can explain the following right.

http://i.imgur.com/1GsUE3F.gif

http://i.imgur.com/b09dROX.gif

http://i.imgur.com/fOGFpKh.gif

http://i.imgur.com/EkRiT4M.gif

If you cannot understand these things you cannot understand a virus. Let alone a vaccine.

There is more information to be learned but Lets see yuo explain what is happening in those .gifs? Go ahead and explain them as best as you can?

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 01, 2015, 07:38:33 AM
We can go back and forth regarding your “deep” understanding of “truth”! But at the end of the day you DON”T KNOW HTE UNIVERSAL TRUTH!.


Point blank, explain why there is no cure for HIV?

Explain why there is no cure for the flu virus?

Explains why a virus even “attacking”?

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/overuse-of-antibiotics-caused-infections-by-bug-that-killed-29-000-in-1-year/

Whatever.

Which to be honest 100%, do doctors prevent cancers to their family members? IOW, do doctors familly members NEVER have cancer? AND< DO ALL DOCTORS FAMILY MEMBERS CURE CANCERS WITH MEDICINE?

Who ever pictured that a doctors' family member would die from a “virus”?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 01, 2015, 08:36:21 AM
[quoteI] am confused as to why every one is not using JB Weld, or other epoxies, in their daily lives.[/quote]

Well a human “made” it (not that does not mean that the human is 100% true.) Well it depends how deep you want to look.

Your TV was made by a human.

Your house was made by a human.

Your computer was made by a human.

A car was made by a human.

Your phone was made by a human.

JB weld was made by a human too,  and truth be told, that is not a very good product. Point blank, are 100% of the fans JB welded to the shaft?

We are ONLY speaking about what others have figured out, we are not talking about miracles!

Where we need to learn how they made the JB weld in the first place INSTEAD of believing that JB weld is the WELD for all? :P  But JB weld is still made by a human and not a god. = not 100%.

You have to understand how the fan got loose in the first place to fix it. and even then, you have to understand that a HUMAN designed the fan in the first place.  Fixing the "problem" does not mean that you designed the fan in the first place. ONLY means that you are using humands products that are not 100%. IT GOES REALLY DEEP!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 01, 2015, 03:18:52 PM
We can go back and forth regarding your “deep” understanding of “truth”!
I do seem to understand viruses and infectious diseases more than you do.
Quote
Point blank, explain why there is no cure for HIV?

Explain why there is no cure for the flu virus?
Define "cure".  As I've said vaccines are generally prevention (although occasionally treatment) . A treatment would be more like Zanamivir (which can also be preventative).
Quote
Explains why a virus even “attacking”?
This needs to be rewritten in English for me to answer.
Quote
Which to be honest 100%, do doctors prevent cancers to their family members?
Cancer is a pretty broad set of diseases classified by unrestricted replication.  If you talked to a researcher and asked them about a "cure for cancer" they would assume you don't know what you're talking about.  Doctors probably prevent some cancers in their patients and probably treat some with a good five or ten year outlook.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 01, 2015, 06:52:33 PM
Learn more:
"learn more" from Natural News.  Could any words be more deceptive?

So the article from Severe Intellectual Deficiency Times you mentioned seems to base it's entire argument on the count not going up in 36 hrs.  I just signed a couple of other petitions and the counts didn't increase for 10 hours now.  So it at least appears that the absolute minimum amount of research wasn't done.

Again, how is this different from fooling yourself. :) Why not just get the domain "realllyreallyreallytruenews.com"  ($12.99) and just make up articles which make you feel good?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 01, 2015, 08:08:27 PM


Why not just get the domain "realllyreallyreallytruenews.com"  ($12.99) and just make up articles which make you feel good?

Hey, that is where I get my news from.  I am happy when it tells me that everyone in the US is back to work, our GDP is 4.6 last year (not the revised figure of 2.0) 50 million Americans are no longer on food stamps, ISIS is defeated and on the run, and the entire world loves and respects the USA.

Oh wait, I'm sorry...that was NBC news.  What was I thinking?

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 01, 2015, 09:04:57 PM
"learn more" from Natural News.  Could any words be more deceptive?

So the article from Severe Intellectual Deficiency Times you mentioned seems to base it's entire argument on the count not going up in 36 hrs.  I just signed a couple of other petitions and the counts didn't increase for 10 hours now.  So it at least appears that the absolute minimum amount of research wasn't done.

Again, how is this different from fooling yourself. :) Why not just get the domain "realllyreallyreallytruenews.com"  ($12.99) and just make up articles which make you feel good?

Post the petitions to claim you signed and we here can verify your claim. ;)

Now go fetch some fresh water. You bucket is beginning to smell a bit moldy. ::)



If vaccines are safe, why has the US gov. paid out $3 BILLION to vaccine-injured families?Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/048819_vaccine_injuries_autism_US_government.html#ixzz3TAAip9xM (http://www.naturalnews.com/048819_vaccine_injuries_autism_US_government.html#ixzz3TAAip9xM)



Media freaks out over Rand Paul's statement that the state doesn't own children when it comes to vaccinesLearn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/048816_mandatory_vaccination_mainstream_media_Rand_Paul.html#ixzz3TAAqmNnP (http://www.naturalnews.com/048816_mandatory_vaccination_mainstream_media_Rand_Paul.html#ixzz3TAAqmNnP)







GMOs are a major problem when it comes to health also.  Myself, I cannot drink milk from the stores. Wont digest and I cannot crap for up to 3 days. Even the organic.  But guess what. I can drink raw milk every day.  Before the raw milk I had lower back pains, knee pain from an injury a few years back, and arthritis symptoms in the hands. Hard to work with all that going on. Heck, hard to put on underwear or socks. But after 1 1/2 months, ALL of those things are gone. GONE.  ;)   For the first few weeks of my new found capabilities, compared to the way I was, I felt like I was 25 again. Im 49 now, started the milk about 1 year ago.  My buddy had told me about it for 2 years before I found a vendor.  I quit the milk for 1 month after about 2 months of feeling good, and tried the store milk for a week. Some pains started coming back the next week and digestion wasnt the worst but not great. Back on the raw and feelin great.

Another issue I had was a thyroid lump on the right side of my neck, about the size of a half peach. Lived with it for 8 years. In the beginning, my family was freaking out on me to go to a doctor.  I was heavy into the Bible at the time and pledged myself to faith. 8 years later, a little over 1 year ago, I was at the grocery store looking at vitamins. A small bottle on the bottom shelf caught my eye. Selenium. $4.59.  Said for prostate prevention.
So I thought, well, Im 48, maybe it would be good to try.  After about 3 weeks, the lump was somewhat smaller. In 2 months, people that knew me were sayin, "what happened?"  lol  To look at me now, youd never know.  I also did a test period near the beginning months of no selenium. In 2 weeks the lump was coming back.  And likewise, once I had started taking it again, it went byby.

My friend, who was one that asked, "what happend?"  had 2 aunts that had larger thyroid lumps than I did. I told her about the selenium. A couple months later she came up to me and said that both her aunts thyroids had shrunk a lot so far. and she said the docs were amazed, considering they had been working with the 2 womens problem for years.

I cannot say it will work for everyone. But it wont hurt to try. Corn is suppose to be a good source of selenium, but gmo corn is very bad for you, and organic can be up to $5 for 2 small cobs in the store. So, best to try an organic farm store for that, some at about .99c for a cob.

In the end, I feel great today. And My faith, faith that I lived with for 8 years, finally paid off. ;) And that is truth my friend. That is truth. ;)

There are many benefits to organic foods. Mostly the problems with non organic, which can include non gmo, is the pesticides that are used, let alone the modified organisms. The organic milk has one big problem it shares with regular milks. Pasteurization. It kills off all the good enzimes that help you digest it and provide other health benefits. Pasteurization was used to kill off bacteria in milk due to the farmers back then were doing what a lot of farms do today. Pack them in tight quarters for their whole life, and they were fed what was called swill. Basically garbage. The cows became unhealthy and sick, which naturally caused problems with the milk.

Raw milk providers in your area can be found on the net. About $10 a gal. I do 1 gal a week.

Many of the gmo are advertized to not need as much or any pesticides. But the farmers find themselves using even more with gmo crops. Glyphosate are a big issue. And it sinks into the skin of the produce, so just washing does not rid it from the food.



http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/07/30/glyphosate-toxicity.aspx (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/07/30/glyphosate-toxicity.aspx)



The bizarre history of glyphosate, the chemical culprit of modern-day diseaseLearn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/046911_glyphosate_history_GMOs.html#ixzz3TAN2GIIm (http://www.naturalnews.com/046911_glyphosate_history_GMOs.html#ixzz3TAN2GIIm)





Glyphosate toxicity to humans: An overviewhttp://www.naturalnews.com/041464_glyphosate_Monsanto_toxicity.html
Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 01, 2015, 09:12:29 PM
Hey, that is where I get my news from.  I am happy when it tells me that everyone in the US is back to work, our GDP is 4.6 last year (not the revised figure of 2.0) 50 million Americans are no longer on food stamps, ISIS is defeated and on the run, and the entire world loves and respects the USA.

Oh wait, I'm sorry...that was NBC news.  What was I thinking?

Bill


Lol. NBC.  ::)    ;D   Im a fox kinda guy when it comes to news, and women. :-* ;D

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 01, 2015, 09:21:43 PM
Quote from: Magluvin
Media freaks out over Rand Paul's statement that the state doesn't own children when it comes to vaccines.  Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/048816_mandatory_vaccination_mainstream_media_Rand_Paul.html#ixzz3TAAqmNnP (http://www.naturalnews.com/048816_mandatory_vaccination_mainstream_media_Rand_Paul.html#ixzz3TAAqmNnP)

"The State" doesn't own any Man or Woman or Child
unless they identify themselves with the LEGAL NAME
AND ACCOUNT NUMBER.  The State has done a very good
job of 'conditioning and brainwashing' the populace to
believe that the ACCOUNT NUMBER and the LEGAL NAME
are 'theirs.'  Freedom is 'taken away' through deception on
the part of the TAKER and ignorance on the part of the GIVER.

It is voluntary.

Rand Paul is correct.  Unfortunately, he isn't able to reveal the
complete TRUTH about how Corporation U.S. has implemented
The New Deal to separate The People from The Constitution in
the (since 1935) United States.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 01, 2015, 09:45:49 PM
Post the petitions to claim you signed and we here can verify your claim. ;)
Uh sure but aren't you being even more stupid than usual?  You know a deep level of ultra-morondom-with-a-side-of-crazy? 

So this one was at 151 before I added my name to the petition.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/create-database-help-doctors-treat-breast-cancer-patients-require-charities-spend-donations-research/NbMmGnHD
and this one was at 174 before I added my name to the petition.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/create-federal-child-abuse-registry-available-public/gNJk7Y4K

...and as you can see they're still there.  However you only have my word that this is the count before I posted.  If you're suspicious (which would be the only reason to ask for verificatino) I could just post the current amount and make the same claim?  Not to mention you could have easily done the same super-obvious-first-thing-anyone-who-isn't-as-stupid-as-a-post-test without my help to demonstrate it to yourself.    We're coming up on 14 hours since I signed.  For all you know the counts are updated weekly.

Also where is your answer to my question?  Did you realize how much of an idiot you are.  So now you're constantly having to "forget" to answer. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 01, 2015, 09:51:25 PM

Lol. NBC.  ::)    ;D   Im a fox kinda guy when it comes to news, and women. :-* ;D

Mags

Me too.  I was just kidding.

Hey, interesting tale about the vitamins helping your lump.  To me, it is simple...if it works...use it.

I have no healthcare plan and can not afford one...especially now.  So, I am always interested in this sort of thing.  I have not seen a Dr. in about 20 years. (excluding a dentist)  I take Airborne if I feel I am coming down with something, and use vitamin C and...if I get really bad...oil of oregano, which is expensive.

Some of my friends say that this is stupid.  I say...I don't care how or why it works...even if psychosomatic,  I believe it works...and it does.  I always ask my friends how many days they missed from work last year...they say...well not many...only about 5 due to being sick.  I have not missed a day of work for being sick in over 20 years.  (crossing fingers)

I may just be naturally healthy but I doubt it.  I have lower back problems from time to time and, this May I will be 57.  (Holy Crap!)  I wash my hands using a sanitizer I mix up myself after being in a public place, and drink beer and I smoke, which I know is stupid.  I may die tomorrow but, so far, so good.

I am happy that your problem was solved.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 01, 2015, 10:45:09 PM
Me too.  I was just kidding.

Hey, interesting tale about the vitamins helping your lump.  To me, it is simple...if it works...use it.

I have no healthcare plan and can not afford one...especially now.  So, I am always interested in this sort of thing.  I have not seen a Dr. in about 20 years. (excluding a dentist)  I take Airborne if I feel I am coming down with something, and use vitamin C and...if I get really bad...oil of oregano, which is expensive.

Some of my friends say that this is stupid.  I say...I don't care how or why it works...even if psychosomatic,  I believe it works...and it does.  I always ask my friends how many days they missed from work last year...they say...well not many...only about 5 due to being sick.  I have not missed a day of work for being sick in over 20 years.  (crossing fingers)

I may just be naturally healthy but I doubt it.  I have lower back problems from time to time and, this May I will be 57.  (Holy Crap!)  I wash my hands using a sanitizer I mix up myself after being in a public place, and drink beer and I smoke, which I know is stupid.  I may die tomorrow but, so far, so good.

I am happy that your problem was solved.

Bill

I know. It was sarcasm about NBC.  ;)

Me, havnt been to a doc since I was 18.  Will be the big 50 in Nov.

Really though, the thyroid was just there. Didnt really bother me much. Once in a while someone would ask about it, but no big deal. Nice to be normal again though. I am not an animal. I am a human being. ;)

If I had gone in for the thyroid, there is a posiblity that they would have removed it and put me on lifetime meds.  I chose faith. ;)

Hey Bill, did you read my thread on the home page about the redirect issue im having here? Maybe you have an idea.

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 01, 2015, 10:54:39 PM
Uh sure but aren't you being even more stupid than usual?  You know a deep level of ultra-morondom-with-a-side-of-crazy? 

So this one was at 151 before I added my name to the petition.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/create-database-help-doctors-treat-breast-cancer-patients-require-charities-spend-donations-research/NbMmGnHD (https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/create-database-help-doctors-treat-breast-cancer-patients-require-charities-spend-donations-research/NbMmGnHD)
and this one was at 174 before I added my name to the petition.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/create-federal-child-abuse-registry-available-public/gNJk7Y4K (https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/create-federal-child-abuse-registry-available-public/gNJk7Y4K)

...and as you can see they're still there.  However you only have my word that this is the count before I posted.  If you're suspicious (which would be the only reason to ask for verificatino) I could just post the current amount and make the same claim?  Not to mention you could have easily done the same super-obvious-first-thing-anyone-who-isn't-as-stupid-as-a-post-test without my help to demonstrate it to yourself.    We're coming up on 14 hours since I signed.  For all you know the counts are updated weekly.

Also where is your answer to my question?  Did you realize how much of an idiot you are.  So now you're constantly having to "forget" to answer. :)

Ok. Ill take your word for the petitions.


Answer?  Heck, I cant give you any statistics. But I can say, if the symptoms katie was having came very soon after the vac, why should the vac remain out of the equation? Why never suspect the vac, even it is given about the time before the issues occurred? But of course according to you, it is impossible for it to be the vac, cant happen, no way.  ::)

There. Thats all I got. A bit of common sense.

Now go get your bucket. ;)

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 01, 2015, 11:09:12 PM
I know. It was sarcasm about NBC.  ;)

Me, havnt been to a doc since I was 18.  Will be the big 50 in Nov.

Really though, the thyroid was just there. Didnt really bother me much. Once in a while someone would ask about it, but no big deal. Nice to be normal again though. I am not an animal. I am a human being. ;)

If I had gone in for the thyroid, there is a posiblity that they would have removed it and put me on lifetime meds.  I chose faith. ;)

Hey Bill, did you read my thread on the home page about the redirect issue im having here? Maybe you have an idea.

Mags

No, I have not read it yet but will.  I have been having connection problems since Stefan's last update.  Sometimes, it take me like 20 attempts to get on here...then I write a post...and hit reply....and nothing happens and my post does not get posted.  Very frustrating.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 01, 2015, 11:33:33 PM
K, thanks.  Just wondered if it was me. ;)

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 02, 2015, 03:48:57 AM
Heck, I cant give you any statistics. But I can say, if the symptoms katie was having came very soon after the vac, why should the vac remain out of the equation? Why never suspect the vac, even it is given about the time before the issues occurred?
It's not a matter of "why never suspect the vac" but a vaccine is about a 0.5 ml.  So in one, two, three or four weeks how many novel 0.5ml exposures do you get in your bloodstream.  Do you think it's one?  two-hundred thousand?  two-hundred million? The question is "Why when the number of OTHER exposures are thousands of times higher.  Why single out the vaccine?"

As for the docs?  Well, if you remember there was a concern about narcolepsy and the H1N1 vaccine.  The risk is probably around 1 in 57 000.  This is for a disease which we have a clear diagnosis and a good understanding of the incidence.  Influenza coverage for H1N1 was something like 430 million doses and from that a few hundred cases were found originally in Finland and Sweden but later in the UK.  Gardasil by comparison has less than half the number of doses.  The syndrome Katie had (assuming the reporting is accurate) has no well-defined diagnosis and certainly no well-understood incidence rate.

So it's utterly stupid for a doc to claim they can tell that Gardasil was responsible.  There is no diagnostic for that and they don't have anywhere near the amount of epidemiological data to make that conclusion.
Quote
But of course according to you, it is impossible for it to be the vac, cant happen, no way.  ::)
Take my posts, print them out then put them right beside the statement above.  Next put on your reading glasses and try to find where I say anything like you do above.  You. Fucking. Moron.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 03, 2015, 03:10:11 AM
Pssst.  SeaMonkey isn't it time for an large, inaccurate and obnoxious graphic or a bunch of links that you've barely read which rehash a bunch of already debunked nonsense?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 03, 2015, 07:22:45 AM
Quote
I do seem to understand viruses and infectious diseases more than you do.

The point is very simple. If you want to keep your car healthy, you maintain it it and follow the recommended procedures to do that. That same procedure is the same to the body as the root. When you get a check engine light, you know something is wrong and most likely then not, it will come due to lack of maintenance. I know for a fact that there are cars out there going on 600, 000 miles and some even hit 1,000, 000. Taxi drivers know this first hand, but they might now know that the same applies to the body too.

The same can be said about the body but it is way harder to maintain it since is not as easy to find out the truth about who says what. How can they since people get bombarded with lies after lies over and over again. Like:

-fat free peanut butter.
-cereal is the healthiest meal of the day.
-margarine is good for the body.
-bagels are good
-bottled water is better
-etc etc

But at the end of the day those things are not healthy at all.

Now one does not require to stay healthy and virus free by understanding the virus in the micro level. Nor everyone requires mandatory vaccinations as they wish. That is just the lazy way of the “big brother” at the expense of many casualties. And I would not be surprised if it is way cheaper to mass vaccinate than to first test those that may have a higher risk of dying from a vaccine.

There are examples upon example that many people die or get severely sick from vaccines which like I already told you, they don't know who is at higher risk since there is no evaluation first.

That is very easy to see that even a monkey should be able to see but for some reason you feel like you are mr. know-it-all of medication for some weird mental blockage.

Quote
Define "cure".  As I've said vaccines are generally prevention (although occasionally treatment) . A treatment would be more like Zanamivir (which can also be preventative)

You don't need treatment if you prevent it first in the first place. Right now gay males are at higher risk of getting HIV because they are more careless at stopping the spread of it. I'm pretty sure you know this right? It's all pretty simple, all one has to do is INVENTORY of every scenario and then go from there NOT just go ape shit and get mandatory HIV, if there was one, to everyone.

So the cure if preventative measures. A vaccine is not preventative measures, they only give the false hopes that one cannot get sick where a lot of things can go wrong. The most important is to teach everyone how the virus spreads first. I already mentioned that tests have been conducted in stadiums where by doing little things can make 80-90% of the people wash their hands. Before the experiment, only 40%-50% where washing their hands in that participial experiment. Now think about how someone is going to spread the flu virus at a store, movie theater, school, work, etc...same shyt.

Why didn't you answered how the other items work? Maybe because you don't know? That is why you can't grasp the over all truth of how everything works. Like in the car analogy I gave you. It is the same. It is just easier to maintain a car because the parts can be bought. If you over fill your oil, you might destroy your engine. It will cost you money to repair it or even replace it, but when it comes to human body, it will cost you hundreds and hundreds of thousand to repair. And even that, you may not come out the same.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 03, 2015, 07:29:41 AM
Joel:

My chemist cousin told me that margarine is only one molecule away from being plastic.  Next time you are at a picnic and the flys are buzzing all around your food...open up a tub of margarine and watch what the flies do.  They will not go near it. The flies know something that you do not.

You call that eating healthy?

Butter is natural and good for you.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 03, 2015, 08:02:15 AM
Quote
Butter is natural and good for you.

There's a professional guy out there that says that “fat free” everything is just a big cash cow. He said something about that the body needs fats. The healthy fats, that is. I never really saw his programs but I may search for them. I do have some DVDs from Dr. Fuhman that I haven't watched yet. From the google that I've done about him, it looks like he knows what he is talking about.

I think the name of the doctor regarding fats is David perlmutter

http://youtu.be/qgu7wiDRaLU

Here's a video example of Dr. Fuhrman

http://youtu.be/l5E6UkcH3CI
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 03, 2015, 03:38:32 PM
Now one does not require to stay healthy and virus free by understanding the virus in the micro level.
You seemed to say this earlier and I said you were wrong.  Are you saying that you were stupid to say that?  Come on Joel.  You can say it! :)
Quote
Nor everyone requires mandatory vaccinations as they wish.
For what set of outcomes?  Until you say what you're measuring you really are saying nothing...which is sort of like saying it's a day that ends in "y".
Quote
And I would not be surprised if it is way cheaper to mass vaccinate than to first test those that may have a higher risk of dying from a vaccine.
Can you tell me exactly what is being tested for here? Hmmmm?  What tests would you order up?  How is it that you don't realize how absolutely stupid your suggestions are?
Quote
There are examples upon example that many people die or get severely sick from vaccines which like I already told you
The only thing you've "told" me is that you agree with an article which claims a death due to vaccination.  The article was written by someone with no expertise in the field and could easily be just as accurate if you replaced his head with a block of wood.  The claim is against what the ME and all available evidence says. :)  So where are all the other ones?  Are they as stupid as this one?
Quote
You don't need treatment if you prevent it first in the first place.
...and since vaccines are preventive measures you wholeheartedly support universal worldwide mandatory vaccination. :)
Quote
So the cure if preventative measures. A vaccine is not preventative measures
Actually yeah vaccines are preventative.  A preventative measure, in English is something which lowers the likelihood of something happening.  Vaccines lower the likelihood of getting sick for a particular serotype.  By contrast "treatment" is how you manage an event once it happens.  If you want to make up a word for "prevention that doesn't include vaccines" go ahead call it "Joel-Moronism" but don't just change the meaning of words because you don't like them. :)
Quote
Why didn't you answered how the other items work? Maybe because you don't know?
Because you have yet to make an argument that this is relevant.

In contrast your claim that you can grasp anything I can *is* relevant.  Your attempts to weasel out of playing "go" with me still make you look kind of stupid. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 03, 2015, 09:08:05 PM
Dr. Andrew Moulden:  Every Vaccine Produces Microvascular Damage (http://vaccineimpact.com/2015/dr-andrew-moulden-every-vaccine-produces-microvascular-damage/)

Every Vaccine Produces Harm (http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/dr-andrew-moulden-every-vaccine-produces-harm/)

Unfortunately, The Doctor's quest for Truth cost him his
life.  Those who control Allopathic Medicine and who
work to stamp out Truth often resort to murder to eliminate
their antagonists.  Medicine has become a very dirty Business.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 03, 2015, 09:16:47 PM
Pssst.  SeaMonkey isn't it time for an large, inaccurate and obnoxious graphic or a bunch of links that you've barely read which rehash a bunch of already debunked nonsense?
Dr. Andrew Moulden:  Every Vaccine Produces Microvascular Damage (http://vaccineimpact.com/2015/dr-andrew-moulden-every-vaccine-produces-microvascular-damage/)

Every Vaccine Produces Harm (http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/dr-andrew-moulden-every-vaccine-produces-harm/)
Awesome thanks for obeying my commands. :D
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 04, 2015, 07:14:28 AM
Sark,

Meeeehh!!!

You and your smiley faces and one liners.

You don't show anything worth a dollar.

I seriously believe you have some type of mental disorder.

You keep chopping up my sentences like a demented person. I'm wondering that your mind must be all tangled up like noodles.

The only thing you offer is just pure entertainment like me going to the movies to watch some sponge bob square pants.

Hmmm lets see what his one liners are.

Quote
You seemed to say this earlier and I said you were wrong.  Are you saying that you were stupid to say that?  Come on Joel.  You can say it!

I said a lot of things and you have said nothing. The typical person that demands something when they don't give anything. You have nothing intelligent coming from you at all. Zero!

Quote
For what set of outcomes?  Until you say what you're measuring you really are saying nothing...which is sort of like saying it's a day that ends in "y".

Hey there hitler.

Quote
Can you tell me exactly what is being tested for here?

can you?

Quote
What tests would you order up?

You are the “expert” you tell me!

Quote
How is it that you don't realize how absolutely stupid your suggestions are?

How is it that you don't see how stupid your suggestions are? Lets all hail hitler over people.

Quote
The only thing you've "told" me is that you agree with an article which claims a death due to vaccination.  The article was written by someone with no expertise in the field and could easily be just as accurate if you replaced his head with a block of wood.  The claim is against what the ME and all available evidence says. So where are all the other ones?  Are they as stupid as this one?

Well how can you explain to an ADD, OCD, mental person anything when they forget everything that has been said already! Nothing! It comes to a point that you just become a pet! And that is what you are right about now, a pet. Chopping up my paragraphs confusing yourself and others. Sort of like a mental virus yourself.

You have zeor zero zero absolute knowledge about medicine. And if you do, you only have it in your own little circle of stupid online friends lol. I mean in quotes “friends”.

Quote
and since vaccines are preventive measures you wholeheartedly support universal worldwide mandatory vaccination.

LOL this dumb-ass does not understand how he is being manipulated by medicine. All the mercury and chemicals have gone to his head. Lol. My pet! Now why don't you take this medicine here 30 pills a day so you can stay 'normal'. Lol, he a pill poping, medicine injecting sarkeizen. How many pills do you take a day for your mental instability?

Quote
Vaccines lower the likelihood of getting sick for a particular serotype.

And the side effects = your fried brain seeing purple elephants flying.

Quote
In contrast your claim that you can grasp anything I can *is* relevant.  Your attempts to weasel out of playing "go" with me still make you look kind of stupid

Please sir tell me where you work because I have a feeling that you are living in lalaland. Where exactly is it that you work?

I seriously believe that you have been taking too many pills for your own mental stability. You just get people confused sir. You can't stay on topic AT ALL! The smiley face after every stupid ass one lines is kind of an evidence to your instability.
:):):):):):):):):):)
:):):):):):):):):):)

Makes me think that your teacher made you feel smart by giving you a happy smiley face in school to make you feel 'special'...





Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 04, 2015, 01:49:57 PM
I seriously believe you have some type of mental disorder.
...and I keep telling you that saying things like that is disrespectful to people with actual disorders both in the implication that you can somehow diagnose it over the internet and your trivialization of people who often have a hard time holding down a job or caring for themselves.  All in the name of making you feel better about yourself. :)
Quote
You keep chopping up my sentences like a demented person.
Mostly paragraphs into sentences and it's to show which individual thought I'm responding to.  It's was a common thing to do in usenet.  If you had a more cogent expression of whatever passes for thinking it probably wouldn't be necessary. :)
Quote
I said a lot of things
...and I'm pointing out that you have contradicted yourself and agreed with me.  Are you saying that you can't even remember what your point was?
Quote
and you have said nothing.
If you've been listening carefully you will notice I've taught you things like...
- understanding that a vaccine protects against a serotype not a strain.
- understanding that replication is the primary cause of mutation in viruses
- understanding that protective gear, even when used by highly trained personnel under threat of death are still insufficient to halt disease progression
- understanding that vaccines are preventative medicine.  As they have the strongest effect prior to getting ill.
- understanding that you primarily try to find things that agree with you rather than contradict you.  As you cling to one aspect of a report of a girls death as told by a news source for the stupid, written by someone who is a moron and which contradicts the ME report.
- understanding why male HPV vaccination is an open question
- understanding why female HPV vaccination is both a good health option and economically better than the alternative
- understanding the difference between analgesia and anaesthesia
- understanding where vaccines are made and that for most North American's none of them are in China.
- understanding the purpose and place of animal testing, probability and epidemiology in determining risk
- understanding that for every argument of "what about side effect 100 years from now" you can make the same argument for being unvaccinated
- understanding why asking someone "do you want" is treating them different than farm animals.
- Medical workers generally get their vaccinations at the beginning of flu season
- you need to define outcomes to make some of your ideas make sense

and that's just off the top of my head concerning my posts directly to you. :)
Quote
The typical person that demands something when they don't give anything.
...and yet there's this big list up there of stuff somehow. :)
Quote
Hey there hitler.
You said that your big solution to everything is that people don't need to be vaccinated except in the minority of cases.  Right?  However the real question is about what you are trying to optimize for.  It's interesting that you don't have an answer here. 
Quote
can you? You are the “expert” you tell me!
This is in response to your "let's just test everyone and that will stop adverse reactions to vaccines" however you seem to have no idea what you would be testing for.  So your "big idea" is again kind of worthless.  If *I* was proposing testing for people it would be on the basis of actual data.  So I would have some idea what kind of labs you would need.
Quote
How is it that you don't see how stupid your suggestions are? Lets all hail hitler over people.
I haven't made any suggestions to change the way things are done.  I have tried to help someone as stupid ias yourself understand why things are done the way they are. :)
Quote
Well how can you explain to an ADD, OCD, mental person anything when they forget everything
Dude if you did cite some large number of cases of proven vaccine injury then all you have to do is cite them again.  It seems like you didn't.  All we've talked about is your worship of the moron at naturalnews. :)
Quote
It comes to a point that you just become a pet! And that is what you are right about now, a pet.
Yeah and ^^*that's*^^ not a coping mechanism. LOL.
Quote
You have zeor zero zero absolute knowledge about medicine.
The only thing I've asserted is I understand a few topics better than you and all you can do is whine like you do here. :)
Quote
LOL this dumb-ass does not understand how he is being manipulated by medicine. All the mercury and chemicals have gone to his head.
I don't usually eat Tuna.  So there's probably very little mercury in me relative to most people.  Also you didn't read the study I posted about children and blood mercury levels did you? :)
Quote
And the side effects = your fried brain
Side effects of vaccination are pretty well known, adverse effects are exceptionally rare.  If you have real information showing a significant side effect then please share it but you won't because you have no such information. :)
Quote
I seriously believe that you have been taking too many pills for your own mental stability.
Currently I take exactly zero prescription medications. I seriously believe that you don't understand what is meant in English when we say "I seriously believe". :)
Quote
You can't stay on topic AT ALL!
Each of my responses is a direct and clear reply to one of your thoughts (loosely speaking).  If we are going "off topic" it's because you are.  I am but a mirror. :)

So getting back to some of your funnier comments...you demand I explain how a bunch of things work.  You can not prove these things are related to the discussion of vaccination.
On the other hand you constantly try to weasel out of playing a couple of games of go with me as a test of how well you can master a subject better than I can.  Which would seem rather directly related.

How do you rationalize that I wonder?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: kEhYo77 on March 04, 2015, 05:51:29 PM
Proof of Government Paid Internet Trolls and Free Energy Debunkers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vddULW_7CcM)


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on March 04, 2015, 10:21:28 PM
Proof of Government Paid Internet Trolls and Free Energy Debunkers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vddULW_7CcM)
Thanks kEhYo77!
And another one; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMBvQ3QVJp0
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 04, 2015, 10:27:26 PM
Excellent work guys!  Thanks for the links.

Vaccine Denial: A Modest Proposal to Reduce the Controversy (http://www.thedailybell.com/news-analysis/36129/Vaccine-Denial-A-Modest-Proposal-to-Reduce-the-Controversy/?uuid=6F808B25-5056-9627-3C1C0B7DA4C0C1D3)

Quote from: The Article
Conclusion: If the pro-vaccine community really wants to make a difference, it could start by telling the truth, the real historical truth – or at least more than one side of it. There are considerable questions about vaccines and their history not included in the mainstream narrative.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 04, 2015, 10:40:11 PM
Somewhat related to Joel and SeaMonkey pro-death positions: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-28/wellness-warrior-jessica-ainscough-dies-from-cancer/6271036

Jessica pursued a long course of therapy not recommended by medical science and the result - a lifespan slightly less than the untreated median survival for her disease.  I understand to a point if people choose to end their lives for a principle but this was more the fault of people who propagandize nonsense.

...and yet SeaMonkey still thinks her propaganda is ok. :)

Quote
Conclusion: If the pro-vaccine community really wants to make a difference, it could start by telling the truth, the real historical truth – or at least more than one side of it. There are considerable questions about vaccines and their history not included in the mainstream narrative.
So again.  Is this a strong argument SM?  Probably not.  At least you won't say so. :) :)

Number of requests for strong evidence: A lot.
Number of people willing to say "This is strong evidence for vaccine harm": Zero. Nada. Zip.  Zilch.
Number of people willing to keep dancing around this rather large problem:  Everyone but me.

Isn't that interesting?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on March 04, 2015, 11:20:49 PM
Number of people willing to keep dancing around this rather large problem:  Everyone but me.

Isn't that interesting?
Yes sarkeizen Trollalot M.D. , very interesting indeed.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 04, 2015, 11:25:42 PM
Yes sarkeizen Trollalot M.D. , very interesting indeed.
You can name call all you want but it doesn't change that I'm asking for strong evidence which is against my existing views.  You all seem content just posting weak evidence to make you feel better (or whatever reason that you can't post any strong evidence).
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on March 04, 2015, 11:49:23 PM
You can name call all you want
Thanks Sir Trollalot, I will keep doing that now I have your permission.
You all seem content just posting weak evidence to make you feel better (or whatever reason that you can't post any strong evidence).
Feeding an argument troll is just a waste of time, we are not paid to have arguments with you.
We just want to inform forum members that vaccines are not what our governments want us to believe they are and that vaccines have many troubling side effects and are sometimes even deadly.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 05, 2015, 12:13:23 AM
We just want to inform forum members
Whatever you want to inform people about.  Is it really honest to only use terribly stupid, misleading and weak evidence?  That seems dishonest to me...or do any means justify the ends?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 05, 2015, 12:31:40 AM
Proof of Government Paid Internet Trolls and Free Energy Debunkers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vddULW_7CcM)




This needs to have its own thread. ;)   Thanks

Link in the vids description....

http://www.fixtheworldproject.net/clean-energy-suppression.html


Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 05, 2015, 12:38:41 AM
This needs to have its own thread. ;)   Thanks

Link in the vids description....

http://www.fixtheworldproject.net/clean-energy-suppression.html
a) HopeGirl/fixtheworld has her own thread here exposing how much of a scammer she is.  You should post this there.
b) Probably because you simply uncritically swallow anything that appears to agree with you.  You might not have realized that this article - in the loosest sense of the term - calls THIS FORUM a scam deliberately set up by the government trolls.  Perhaps you want to level that accusation at the site administrator?  Hmmm?  Please say yes.  Moron.
c) Virtually all the links and videos are grounded in a few lines from a document that none of you have even seen.  I'm certainly not saying that Snowden is a fake but documents have context and considering you've never even read a few paragraphs of this one.  Don't you think it's a little premature to be trumpeting how the government as special ops people sitting around here talking to nobodies likes you?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on March 05, 2015, 01:24:55 AM
Good news?


Google wants to rank websites based on facts not links (http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22530102.600-google-wants-to-rank-websites-based-on-facts-not-links.html#.VPR2DvnF98H)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 05, 2015, 01:28:32 AM
Google wants to rank websites based on facts not links (http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22530102.600-google-wants-to-rank-websites-based-on-facts-not-links.html#.VPR2DvnF98H)
How will anyone find this place?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on March 05, 2015, 01:30:00 AM
Whatever you want to inform people about.  Is it really honest to only use terribly stupid, misleading and weak evidence?  That seems dishonest to me...or do any means justify the ends?
No, I hate dishonesty!
But you on the other hand know better, you know vaccines are dangerous but you are playing the silly "I have no clue and my search engine can't find any bad data" game.
You Sir Trollalot are dishonest and I very much dislike you for that.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 05, 2015, 02:06:02 AM
No, I hate dishonesty!
Not enough to post only strong evidence here...or at least point out what parts of the evidence you do post are strong.  You also lack the integrity to point out what evidence that other people post is weak.  Right?

...but I guess the ends justify the means right?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on March 05, 2015, 02:23:27 AM
...but I guess the ends justify the means right?
Grow a spine Trollalot.
I feel sorry for your children and grandchildren.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on March 05, 2015, 02:26:32 AM
No, I hate dishonesty!
But you on the other hand know better, you know vaccines are dangerous but you are playing the silly "I have no clue and my search engine can't find any bad data" game.
You Sir Trollalot are dishonest and I very much dislike you for that.
What criteria do you use to determine whether something is dangerous or not?  According to that criteria:  Which vaccines are dangerous?  What objective evidence have you used to determine that each of the vaccines you declare are dangerous meet your criteria? 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MileHigh on March 05, 2015, 02:32:03 AM
The anti-vaxies can suck on this:

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/ (http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/)

Key facts:

    Measles is one of the leading causes of death among young children even though a safe and cost-effective vaccine is available.
    In 2013, there were 145 700 measles deaths globally – about 400 deaths every day or 16 deaths every hour.
    Measles vaccination resulted in a 75% drop in measles deaths between 2000 and 2013 worldwide.
    In 2013, about 84% of the world's children received one dose of measles vaccine by their first birthday through routine health services – up from 73% in 2000.
    During 2000-2013, measles vaccination prevented an estimated 15.6 million deaths making measles vaccine one of the best buys in public health.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 05, 2015, 02:43:00 AM
a) HopeGirl/fixtheworld has her own thread here exposing how much of a scammer she is.  You should post this there.
b) Probably because you simply uncritically swallow anything that appears to agree with you.  You might not have realized that this article - in the loosest sense of the term - calls THIS FORUM a scam deliberately set up by the government trolls.  Perhaps you want to level that accusation at the site administrator?  Hmmm?  Please say yes.  Moron.
c) Virtually all the links and videos are grounded in a few lines from a document that none of you have even seen.  I'm certainly not saying that Snowden is a fake but documents have context and considering you've never even read a few paragraphs of this one.  Don't you think it's a little premature to be trumpeting how the government as special ops people sitting around here talking to nobodies likes you?

"Don't you think it's a little premature to be trumpeting how the government as special ops people sitting around here talking to nobodies likes you?"

English please.  ;)


Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on March 05, 2015, 02:51:04 AM
Attack of the triples? (are you three brothers? does Stephan know about this?)
Your posts on O.U. or not O.U. coils is very much appreciated but this subject is not about O.U. but about vaccine dangers and you all "three" seem to be willing to bring forth government propaganda and I very much doubt your good intentions and smell an agenda.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 05, 2015, 02:51:41 AM
Vaccine Opponents Do Have Scientific Backing (http://henrymakow.com/2015/03/science-confirms-vaccines.html)

Quote from: The Article
Here is a list of medical journal abstracts on vaccine hazards. 
They prove that science is not on the side of vaccines, and anyone pushing vaccines is an Illuminati stooge.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on March 05, 2015, 03:00:25 AM
Attack of the triples? (are you three brothers? does Stephan know about this?)
Your posts on O.U. or not O.U. coils is very much appreciated but this subject is not about O.U. but about vaccine dangers and you all "three" seem to be willing to bring forth government propaganda and I very much doubt your good intentions and smell an agenda.
Does this mean that you are not going to answer the questions I posed?  You have made a series of assertions.  My questions are directed at probing as to whether those assertions have any logical foundation in fact.  If all you can do is blow smoke, that's fine.  I have a fan.

We can always try again:

What criteria do you use to determine whether something is dangerous or not?  According to that criteria:  Which vaccines are dangerous?  What objective evidence have you used to determine that each of the vaccines you declare are dangerous meet your criteria? 

Remember, you are the one who just declared he/she hates dishonesty.  Let's see you offer an honest answer to each question.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 05, 2015, 03:05:16 AM
Attack of the triples? (are you three brothers? does Stephan know about this?)
Your posts on O.U. or not O.U. coils is very much appreciated but this subject is not about O.U. but about vaccine dangers and you all "three" seem to be willing to bring forth government propaganda and I very much doubt your good intentions and smell an agenda.

It is not gov. propaganda.  Just look at the REAL numbers.  Of course, you need to know a little about statistics but...it should be self-explanatory.
Sure, there have been some reactions to this vaccine.  There always is a certain percentage of folks that have a bad reaction to anything.  BUT, you need to compare this small number to the numbers of deaths from measles to be able to make any kind of intelligent choice.

When a big plane goes down, 250 are killed.  Sounds dangerous right?  Overall, we all know the numbers that prove that flying is much safer than driving.  So, if flying were banned in an effort to "save lives", many, many thousands more folks would be killed driving.  Looking at the REAL numbers of reactions to vaccines and the deaths they prevent is a no brainer.

Crunch the numbers yourself if you are able to do so...then make an intelligent choice.  You need reliable input to be able to do this however.
SeaMonkey's links are not what I would deem reliable.


Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on March 05, 2015, 03:05:36 AM
Does this mean that you are not going to answer the questions I posed?  You have made a series of assertions.  My questions are directed at probing as to whether those assertions have any logical foundation in fact.  If all you can do is blow smoke, that's fine.  I have a fan.
It all depends who asks.
Is it you MarkE or is it MileHigh or sarkeizen?
Take your pick Trollalot.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 05, 2015, 03:06:45 AM
It all depends who asks.
Is it you MarkE or is it MileHigh or sarkeizen?
Take your pick Trollalot.

What the hell does this even mean?  I suppose you are not going to respond to my post then?

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 05, 2015, 03:07:48 AM
Grow a spine Trollalot.
I feel sorry for your children and grandchildren.
So you think it's ok to only post weak evidence?
So you think it's ok to post evidence which is mostly weak without pointing out the parts that are strong?
So you think it's ok to not point out the weak points of other peoples evidence?

You think none of these things are deceptive?  Let me know when you grow a spine that can answer a tough question or two.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 05, 2015, 03:08:56 AM
Vaccine Opponents Do Have Scientific Backing (http://henrymakow.com/2015/03/science-confirms-vaccines.html)
Is this strong Evidence SM?  Just say so.  Otherwise you're saying it's weak evidence and should be ignored right?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on March 05, 2015, 03:09:32 AM
It all depends who asks.
Is it you MarkE or is it MileHigh or sarkeizen?
Take your pick Trollalot.
Once again, here are the questions posed to you that if you have the commensurate collateral, the answers would allow you to strongly argue in favor of your assertions, instead of evading them by disingenuosly claiming that the questions are "government propaganda".  You are not doing a very good job of demonstrating how you "hate dishonesty".

What criteria do you use to determine whether something is dangerous or not?  According to that criteria:  Which vaccines are dangerous?  What objective evidence have you used to determine that each of the vaccines you declare are dangerous meet your criteria? 

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 05, 2015, 03:10:25 AM
"Don't you think it's a little premature to be trumpeting how the government as special ops people sitting around here talking to nobodies likes you?"

English please.  ;)
Don't you think it's a little premature to be trumpeting how the government has special ops people sitting around here talking to a nobody like you?

Hope that helps.  :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 05, 2015, 03:10:58 AM
Once again, here are the questions posed to you that if you have the commensurate collateral, the answers would allow you to strongly argue in favor of your assertions, instead of evading them by disingenuosly claiming that the questions are "government propaganda".  You are not doing a very good job of demonstrating how you "hate dishonesty".

What criteria do you use to determine whether something is dangerous or not?  According to that criteria:  Which vaccines are dangerous?  What objective evidence have you used to determine that each of the vaccines you declare are dangerous meet your criteria?

He won't answer.  He did not respond to my posts, nor Sark's so...I would not hold your breath.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on March 05, 2015, 03:11:12 AM
What the hell does this even mean?  I suppose you are not going to respond to my post then?

Bill
Bill, are you sarkeizen too?
This is confusing.
Does Stephan know?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 05, 2015, 03:16:22 AM
Bill, are you sarkeizen too?
This confusing.
Does Stephan know?

Well, thank you for showing your true colors.  I will waste no more time with you.  Next you will be claiming that I work for big pharma or the gov.  Folks with no argument or facts on their side often resort to this tactic.  A desperate last resort.

I am me.  I have always been me. Stefan knows me.  Just ask him.

(I dare you)  He will get a good laugh from your question.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on March 05, 2015, 03:17:57 AM
He won't answer.  He did not respond to my posts, nor Sark's so...I would not hold your breath.

Bill
Bill, it is his choice as to how he wishes to present himself.  So far he is not presenting himself very well.  He objects to inquiry against his assertion that:

X1 ... Xn are all members of Y, based on:

Define the criteria that makes something a member of the set Y.
Identify each Xm that he wishes to show is a member of Y.
Show objective evidence for each identified Xm that it meets the criteria defined to be a member of Y.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MileHigh on March 05, 2015, 03:18:05 AM
For the sake of dramatic impact:

During 2000-2013, measles vaccination prevented an estimated 15.6 million deaths making measles vaccine one of the best buys in public health.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 05, 2015, 03:19:36 AM
Quote from: Zen Gardner
by Zen Gardner
I don’t know about you but the schism between truth and lies seems to be
widening pretty drastically lately with a lot of confusion and disorientation
sewn into the mix.

Just recently I’ve seen friends facing personal upheavals, con jobs, personal
attacks from very strange quarters, new and very revealing understandings
of personal perspectives and relationships, and just about everything, for
myself as well.  It’s like we’re viewing the perceived world as being
fractured into shards of broken off new perspectives to be grasped and
understood, making the big picture that much more lucid.

If we connect the dots.

I’ve said for a long time the split between the willing awakeners and
the willful asleep would widen and we’d see more and more psychotic
behavior on the part of the truth resistant.  The revelation of what’s
really going on within these vectors of society, as well as in the so
called Truth movement, are something to look out for and be
consciously aware of.

Apocalypse Now

Apocalypse means the unveiling, the revealing, hence the term
revelation.  Quite a far cry from the end of the world, it’s just an
end of a very limited understanding and the opening of another.
As the world becomes more and more aware of what is really
driving society, via enlightened thought, archeological and
scientific or otherwise discoveries of profound truths about our
realm and where we came from, our dimensional reality, the real
history of our planet etc., things take on whole new dimensions
even for mainstream thinkers.

Settled science is famous for concealing not just information, but
its implications.  That’s really the world we’re up against. “Mustn’t
make any rash decisions or paradigm shifts.  We’re still processing
this data”….yada yada.

We’re in for a fun and wild ride.  Things are going to be revealed
that are going to peel eyeballs back.  Then observers are going to
have to deal with the cognitive dissonance as mainstain purveyors
make mush out of what could be empowering truth which the
unaware will have to swallow.  As the information field shifts and
steps up its vibrational intensity we’re going to be seeing some
real doozies and these seeming controllers won’t be able to keep
their tracks covered.

Meanwhile we’re experiencing what we’re experiencing, faster
than any mainstream or even alternative narrative can keep up with.
There’s so much being released as this fractured shift and partition
of the old paradigm takes place it will be mind boggling.  But a
great ride to take nonetheless… if you’re conscious, awake and
aware… and on the offensive.

The Moral of the Story?

Don’t let it throw you, but pay attention to all of this.  It might be
seeping up through some personal issues you might have but let
it bubble up and see it for what it is.  Maybe dreams are surfacing
to your consciousness, or old relationships or new situations are
under scrutiny.  Just pay attention.

Truth invites inspection. Never be afraid.

We are being empowered by the mightiest force in the Universe.
The Universe itself.  We can steer through this madness with
calmness of heart and soul and a determined mind, or let it
disturb us and send us into lower level thinking and vibration.

The choice is ours.


Don’t let anything throw you. Examine everything carefully
in conscious awareness, and never fear your conclusions, or
path along the way.

Trusting our awakened hearts is imperative.

Steady on your way.

Much love always, Zen

Full Article Here (http://www.zengardner.com/time-revelation/)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on March 05, 2015, 03:20:43 AM
For the sake of dramatic impact:

During 2000-2013, measles vaccination prevented an estimated 15.6 million deaths making measles vaccine one of the best buys in public health.
Yes, but did it kill 6.5 billion people, and then the government covered it up by replacing those people with Nexus 6 androids dropped from chemtrail aircraft?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 05, 2015, 03:20:57 AM
For the sake of dramatic impact:

During 2000-2013, measles vaccination prevented an estimated 15.6 million deaths making measles vaccine one of the best buys in public health.

But, how many were killed by the vaccine?

If that number is less than 15.6 million, than it was definitely the way to go.  If the number of deaths was like 8, then they really did make a good choice.

Why can't people see this?  Do they no longer teach math in schools?

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 05, 2015, 03:21:23 AM
....
So SM - same question.  Is any of that STRONG evidence of something? If not, we should assume it's weak evidence and should be ignored.  Right?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 05, 2015, 03:23:09 AM
So SM - same question.  Is any of that STRONG evidence of something? If not, we should assume it's weak evidence and should be ignored.  Right?

Hey, come on now.  We can't all be posting here at the same time as we are evidently all the same person.

What gives?

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on March 05, 2015, 03:23:26 AM
Well, thank you for showing your true colors.  I will waste no more time with you.  Next you will be claiming that I work for big pharma or the gov.  Folks with no argument or facts on their side often resort to this tactic.  A desperate last resort.

I am me.  I have always been me. Stefan knows me.  Just ask him.

(I dare you)

Bill
Lol, you are a troll too.
Sorry it took me so long to find out.
Four birds of a feather or just one that tried to look like four?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 05, 2015, 03:26:06 AM
Lol, you are a troll too.
Sorry it took me so long to find out.
Four birds of a feather or just one that tried to look like four?

Oh, I forgot.  The really lastest last resort is to call someone a troll. 

So, you get asked a question.

You do not, or can't answer it.  Therefore,
The person asking the question is a troll.

That is some kind of logic you have going on over there.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 05, 2015, 03:29:53 AM
Hey, come on now.  We can't all be posting here at the same time as we are evidently all the same person.
I ran a word adjacency analysis on myself - and apparently I'm not you. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 05, 2015, 03:31:25 AM
I ran a word adjacency analysis on myself - and apparently I'm not you. :)

Well, I would say that that is a relief but, I am not sure if I would be insulting you or me?

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 05, 2015, 03:39:32 AM
Why can't people see this?  Do they no longer teach math in schools?
http://consumer.healthday.com/mental-health-information-25/addiction-news-6/tips-former-smokers-campaign-ajpm-cdc-release-batch-1505-694427.html

Cost effectiveness for anti-smoking campaign was at one time $50K per year of life saved.  A vaccine costs how much again?

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/124/Supplement_5/S492.full

Cost of administering a vaccine. <$50

It's hard not to consider MMR to be cost-effective. (also that study from pediatrics should take the wind out of all the "love of money" crap.  Docs do not make much on vaccination)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on March 05, 2015, 03:40:04 AM
Lol, I hit a nerve!
Seems like one troll who posts with 4 accounts or 4 trolls who work for the same organization.
Do you peeps have a job for me?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 05, 2015, 03:43:22 AM
Seems like one troll who posts with 4 accounts or 4 trolls who work for the same organization.
Only if you're stupid.  Which you are.  Try to rise above that.

I notice you have stopped answering questions about the ethics of your behavior.   Perhaps I hit a nerve by calling out your lack of integrity.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on March 05, 2015, 03:53:17 AM
Only if you're stupid.  Which you are.  Try to rise above that.

I notice you have stopped answering questions about the ethics of your behavior.   Perhaps I hit a nerve by calling out your lack of integrity.
Lol mate, I am sincere but I know you are not and neither are "your mates".
Trollalot as much as you want but you look very silly and insincere.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on March 05, 2015, 04:18:28 AM
Okay, still waiting for a troll job offer (for less than 5000 Euro per month no deal!).
No health trolling because of all I have been through with my children.
Vaccine's Safety: A Crime Against Humanity by Dr. Sherri J Tenpenny:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAJb01ZiJNk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAJb01ZiJNk)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 05, 2015, 04:40:19 AM
Lol mate, I am sincere but
...you deliberately post evidence that you know is not very strong.
...you deliberately avoid pointing out the weakness in evidence others point out.

If any of those are not true - please speak up - but please don't pretend this behavior of yours has any integrity. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on March 05, 2015, 05:14:54 AM
Okay, still waiting for a troll job offer (for less than 5000 Euro per month no deal!).
No health trolling because of all I have been through with my children.
Vaccine's Safety: A Crime Against Humanity by Dr. Sherri J Tenpenny:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAJb01ZiJNk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAJb01ZiJNk)
She doesn't actually present any kind of logical argument.  She does a lot of hand waving.  Mostly she commits the logical fallacy of argument from ignorance over and over again.  She makes the fallacious argument that the best immunization is the result of catching the disease.  What she ignores is the horrendous permanent damage and death that results when people catch an infectious disease.  She alleges that components of vaccines cause problems, but she fails to cite any actual evidence. 

So again: What criteria do you use to determine whether something is dangerous or not?  According to that criteria:  Which vaccines are dangerous?  What objective evidence have you used to determine that each of the vaccines you declare are dangerous meet your criteria?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 05, 2015, 05:23:24 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vddULW_7CcM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMBvQ3QVJp0

Mind blown! Or at least very eye opening. I never really thought about that. But I don't mind digging for truth.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 05, 2015, 05:57:48 AM
http://www.thedailybell.com/news-analysis/36129/Vaccine-Denial-A-Modest-Proposal-to-Reduce-the-Controversy/?uuid=6F808B25-5056-9627-3C1C0B7DA4C0C1D3

There is a lot to digest there and a lot to understand too. But common knowledge speaks 100% truth.

-Take for example the tv commercials. They are timed and also manipulate the sound decibels. It starts little by little. The first commercial is short in time to allow the viewer to get drawn in...then the second commercial is a little longer and the sound gets way louder (they raise the volume on purpose)...The climax is a very long commercial and very loud. Conclusion, they want to engrave the commercial in your brain. = money from your pockets to theirs. = don't care if you get ADD.

-Take for example Comcast or AT&T, you are a very fragile little old lady that wants to retire and enjoy good quality TV. She is paying for her entertainment. But then comcast is starts to take advantage of her...she decided to cancel the subscription....well, not so fast, says comcast, you will not leave us that quick before we take more money from you. (just google comcast experiences to see the full picture)

-Take for example HVAC repair men. (or any other business for that matter). I have witness seeing an ill crippled guy get charged for a brand new HVAC unit that would be $3000 out of his pocket when he just needed a $10 dollar part. Saw it with my eyes, understand it because I know how AC units work.

-Take for example the police. They have a quota to maintain. The police department actually makes money from how many tickets they give out. So they have to give out certain amount of tickets out even if you are not guilty. If you are not guilty of the ticket, it will just get dismissed in court. But then you have to understand that you missed a day at work. That ticket went on your record. And, most importantly, if the cop sees you again, he will pull you over to meet his quota. (easy target).

There are more examples regarding GREED! But these are A LOT already. The point i'm trying to make is with all of this evidence I find it hard to believe that medicine is only made for the good of the people. There has to be corruption there that they believe they can get away with. I'm not against medicine at all nor vaccines, I'm just AGAIST the corruption! Where corruption = MANDATORY anything.

Overall, regarding the evidence, they don't really want to help us. They just want to take our money.  As long as we don't complain and just take it, they will continue to do it and will get worse.

It is like a bully. A guy kicks you and you say stop it. Then he kicks you again and you say stop it. Then eventually you just get kicked and kicked and kicked and kicked and kicked on if you don't do anything about it.

But I believe that the government does not give a rats ass if I die or live as long as it's pockets are getting filled with money...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 05, 2015, 06:13:52 AM
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22530102.600-google-wants-to-rank-websites-based-on-facts-not-links.html#.VPR2DvnF98H

Actually I don't mind that at all. Google just came out of nowhere (a search engine) and started to take over everyone.

So I would trust google over any other search engine.

It would at least get rid of those people that are living in lalaland, which are a lot.

How did a search engine get so huge?

A googol actually is the largest number – 10 100

10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.

Or at least very big. I don't know jack about Graham’s number.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 05, 2015, 06:25:08 AM
If HVAC repairmen used JB Weld, they would not have to charge as much for their repairs.  Instead, they sell new parts that folks do not even need.  I have repaired my heat pump with JB Weld and it is still working after 3 years now.  Total cost?  $3.00.  Estimate from the repairman?  $450.00.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 05, 2015, 06:41:59 AM
http://www.thedailybell.com/news-analysis/36129/Vaccine-Denial-A-Modest-Proposal-to-Reduce-the-Controversy/?uuid=6F808B25-5056-9627-3C1C0B7DA4C0C1D3

There is a lot to digest there and a lot to understand too. But common knowledge speaks 100% truth.
Guess you didn't catch some of the obvious deceptions in it.  Oh well I guess "digging for truth" isn't really your thing. :) :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on March 05, 2015, 06:52:39 AM
If HVAC repairmen used JB Weld, they would not have to charge as much for their repairs.  Instead, they sell new parts that folks do not even need.  I have repaired my heat pump with JB Weld and it is still working after 3 years now.  Total cost?  $3.00.  Estimate from the repairman?  $450.00.

Bill
But if they put JB Weld in vaccines:  What then?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 05, 2015, 06:16:40 PM
" "During the 2009 H1N1 pandemic, researchers at the B.C. Centre for Disease Control originally thought seasonal flu shots (http://www.naturalnews.com/flu_shots.html) from 2008 might offer extra protection against the new pandemic strain. They were puzzled to find instead, seasonal flu vaccination almost doubled the risk of infection with pandemic flu."

Did you read that? An untested vaccine that health authorities all around the world urged everyone to get for their own protection against a novel, pandemic flu (http://www.naturalnews.com/flu.html) strain -- and a vaccine that they promised would also protect against seasonal flu -- actually made people who got it more prone to contracting the flu. This is now being openly admitted, affirming what independent news outlets like Natural News have been warning the public about for years.

And yet, despite this admission, these same health authorities are still trying to scare the public into rushing out and getting a flu shot. Huh? The vaccine (http://www.naturalnews.com/vaccine.html) doesn't work, they now say. And people who get it year after year are more prone to contracting the flu, they also say. But everyone should still rush out and get it, especially if they're in a high-risk category?"
Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/048871_flu_shots_vaccine_paradox_immune_system.html#ixzz3TX4Ts18X (http://www.naturalnews.com/048871_flu_shots_vaccine_paradox_immune_system.html#ixzz3TX4Ts18X)


Also from that link....

"
Peer-reviewed study reveals that unvaccinated people are most protected against influenza At least six separate studies conducted by the same people that are still pushing the flu shot have confirmed that seasonal flu shots make people more prone to contracting the flu. The evidence is now overwhelming that, rather than impart immunity as long claimed, flu shots actually destroy the immune system (http://www.naturalnews.com/immune_system.html) and increase the risk of infection.

One would think that, now that the cat is out of the bag, these peddlers of quackery would quit while they're ahead, admit that they lied about flu shot safety and efficacy, and go out and find a real profession. Instead, they're continuing to push the seasonal flu shot (http://www.naturalnews.com/flu_shot.html), which as they now put it causes "interference" with people's immune systems, as they hype the soon unveiling of a "universal" flu shot that will be better than ever (fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, well, you know the rest).

The real kicker here is that, in the same CBC News report, a study published in the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases is referenced, revealing that the people who are most protected from the flu are, wait for it -- the unvaccinated. So tell me again, why should anyone get a flu shot?"


Sources:

http://www.thedailysheeple.com (http://www.thedailysheeple.com/canadian-flu-vaccine-paradox-admits-vaccines-are-causing-more-illness_012015)

http://www.cbc.ca (http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/flu-vaccine-paradox-adds-to-public-health-debate-1.2912790)

http://www.naturalnews.com (http://www.naturalnews.com/033998_influenza_vaccines_effectiveness.html)

http://truthwiki.org/Vaccine_Fanaticism (http://truthwiki.org/Vaccine_Fanaticism)

http://truthwiki.org/Medical_Fascism (http://truthwiki.org/Medical_Fascism)

http://truthwiki.org/Medical_Kidnapping (http://truthwiki.org/Medical_Kidnapping)


Mags

[/color]
[/color]
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 05, 2015, 07:56:59 PM
The real kicker here is that, in the same CBC News report, a study published in the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases is referenced, revealing that the people who are most protected from the flu are, wait for it -- the unvaccinated. So tell me again, why should anyone get a flu shot?"
Is it really worth my time showing you how Mike Adams is an illiterate moron here (and you by extension are a twice the moron he is because you decided just to vomit what he says) or can you just take my word for it that you are too stupid to live. :) 

Let me know.  I'll be happy to untangle this for you. 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 06, 2015, 12:23:29 AM
Is it really worth my time showing you how Mike Adams is an illiterate moron here (and you by extension are a twice the moron he is because you decided just to vomit what he says) or can you just take my word for it that you are too stupid to live. :) 

Let me know.  I'll be happy to untangle this for you.

"Mike Adams is an illiterate moron"

"you by extension are a twice the moron he is because you decided just to vomit what he says"

"you are too stupid to live."

See people. This is pretty much all this guy has. ::)   

Oh, but I have to ask for more info in order for there to be any real substance at all from this guy. Ill let him keep on extruding diarrhea of the mouth, as it is a great summary of his(above us all) character. ;)

Im not asking. I went back to the beginning of the thread to see what he has been writing here from the start. After 10 pages, it was just the same old stuff Im seeing here lately. Pretty much nuthin. ;)

Meanwhile......


“Gardasil, One Less Victim of Cervical Cancer?” France says ‘NO’ as they ban Gardasil ads


http://sanevax.org/gardasil-one-less-victim-of-cervical-cancer-france-says-no-as-they-ban-gardasil-ads/ (http://sanevax.org/gardasil-one-less-victim-of-cervical-cancer-france-says-no-as-they-ban-gardasil-ads/)




What Really Went Wrong with Gardasil


http://sanevax.org/what-really-went-wrong-with-gardasil/ (http://sanevax.org/what-really-went-wrong-with-gardasil/)





HPV vaccine in Carmen de Bolivar: A tragedy foretold



http://sanevax.org/hpv-vaccine-carmen-de-bolivar-tragedy-foretold/ (http://sanevax.org/hpv-vaccine-carmen-de-bolivar-tragedy-foretold/)


Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 06, 2015, 12:58:08 AM
I have to ask for more info in order for there to be any real substance at all from this guy.
Think about it. 

i) I've shown a number of your postings to be incorrect or rather wildly inaccurate.
ii) You spend a lot of time avoiding simple straight forward questions.
iii) You mostly post from places like Natural News
iv) You never spend the microscopic amount of energy to read the studies involved.

What indication have you given that you're interested in an opinion contrary to yours.  Pretty much zero.

Quote
Im not asking.
Why would that be? 

I mean people doubt my sincerity here but I pretty much beg for people to post information to contradict my beliefs.  The only thing I ask is that they show me only the very strong evidence.  Which I'm happy to view, comment on and even change my mind.

So how sincere is someone who up front says: "Hey I'm not interested in hearing what's wrong with my beliefs".  Of what value is someone like that when discussing "Recent Developments in Vaccines"?   Seems like not much. :)

Quote
After 10 pages,
Wow...11% of a thread!
Quote
it was just the same old stuff Im seeing here lately.
You putting your fingers in your ears?  :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 06, 2015, 01:14:16 AM
Think about it. 

i) I've shown a number of your postings to be incorrect or rather wildly inaccurate.
ii) You spend a lot of time avoiding simple straight forward questions.
iii) You mostly post from places like Natural News
iv) You never spend the microscopic amount of energy to read the studies involved.

What indication have you given that you're interested in an opinion contrary to yours.  Pretty much zero.
Why would that be? 

I mean people doubt my sincerity here but I pretty much beg for people to post information to contradict my beliefs.  The only thing I ask is that they show me only the very strong evidence.  Which I'm happy to view, comment on and even change my mind.

So how sincere is someone who up front says: "Hey I'm not interested in hearing what's wrong with my beliefs".  Of what value is someone like that when discussing "Recent Developments in Vaccines"?   Seems like not much. :)
Wow...11% of a thread!You putting your fingers in your ears?  :)



"I've shown a number of your postings to be incorrect or rather wildly inaccurate."

You have shown nothing but your opinion. You show no sources or links.  Just your blown up opinion.

Over 40,500 reads on this thread. And its up to me to get you to put up some real info?  ::) Na. Thats all on you bud. If this were a real debate, show me in all this thread where you win. I and the others post info, and you just water it down, no matter what is posted by me or any of the others. Not very convincing at all on your part.

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 06, 2015, 01:29:08 AM
"I've shown a number of your postings to be incorrect or rather wildly inaccurate."

You have shown nothing but your opinion. You show no sources or links.  Just your blown up opinion.
Absolutely false.  However if there's an instance where you feel further substantiation is necessary.  Please point out the specific instance and I'll be happy to provide it.

But let me guess....you're not interested.

Quote
And its up to me to get you to put up some real info?  ::) Na. Thats all on you bud.
Well a) Thanks for admitting that nothing you've posted qualifies as "information".  I'm glad we agree on that and b) I have absolutely no problem with providing further substantiation - I've even said this many times - you just need to point out the specific point of contention. 

But let me guess...you're not interested either.

Quote
no matter what is posted by me or any of the others.
Haven't you noticed that the vast majority of what you and others post come from a rather insanely small group of sites.  Do you also notice that none of you post actual studies?  Isn't that interesting?  All these posts. Not. One. Actual. Study.

Quote
Not very convincing at all on your part.
Yawn.  You haven't posted anything that passes for science and your argument is compelling...how?

Anyway when you decide to take your fingers out of your ears.  I'm more than happy to fill the empty space between them with something better than Natural News. However you do have to make that decision.  Today - you're just making excuses. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 06, 2015, 01:58:02 AM
Absolutely false.  However if there's an instance where you feel further substantiation is necessary.  Please point out the specific instance and I'll be happy to provide it.

But let me guess....you're not interested.
Well a) Thanks for admitting that nothing you've posted qualifies as "information".  I'm glad we agree on that and b) I have absolutely no problem with providing further substantiation - I've even said this many times - you just need to point out the specific point of contention. 

But let me guess...you're not interested either.
Haven't you noticed that the vast majority of what you and others post come from a rather insanely small group of sites.  Do you also notice that none of you post actual studies?  Isn't that interesting?  All these posts. Not. One. Actual. Study.
Yawn.  You haven't posted anything that passes for science and your argument is compelling...how?

Anyway when you decide to take your fingers out of your ears.  I'm more than happy to fill the empty space between them with something better than Natural News. However you do have to make that decision.  Today - you're just making excuses. :)


"Absolutely false.  However if there's an instance where you feel further substantiation is necessary.  Please point out the specific instance and I'll be happy to provide it."

Really? Prove it. Further substantiation???  You havt substantiated anything thus far. ;) You wont. You cant, so far anyway. ::) Im not going to be your coach here. You either have proof or not. So far, not. :P


"Well a) Thanks for admitting that nothing you've posted qualifies as "information"."

Lol, a typical twist of words. I dont expect any better from you.  ;)   Lol you really think the readers cant see through that? ::)   Come on readers, give Sarks a big hand here. Comedy at its worst. ;)



"I have absolutely no problem with providing further substantiation"

Apparently you do. So far, you seem to have that problem from the beginning of this thread. ;)   Right readers? ;D


"Haven't you noticed that the vast majority of what you and others post come from a rather insanely small group of sites.  Do you also notice that none of you post actual studies?  Isn't that interesting?  All these posts. Not. One. Actual. Study."

And where are your posted studies? Hmmm?   So far, there is a lot of study of your foul mouth. And thats pretty accurate. ;)


"Today - you're just making excuses"

See. Once again. Ya got nuthin. :P ;)


Mags

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 06, 2015, 02:47:21 AM
Quote from: me
"Absolutely false.  However if there's an instance where you feel further substantiation is necessary.  Please point out the specific instance and I'll be happy to provide it."
Really? Prove it.
Well where is the specific point of contention?  Hmmm....you didn't provide one.  Well I'll give you a break and pretend you said:"Please show me where you have provided even one reference substantiating your point because I am so stupid I need to concentrate to breathe".
Quote from: me
First study is the Cochrane review from 2012.  Which is a collection of studies of different types and sizes.  The conclusion of your PDF document is: "The design and reporting of safety outcomes in MMR vaccine studies, both pre- and post-marketing, are largely inadequate."

So this study was about comparing MMR to monovalent vaccines.  The discussion section begins thus:"We found only limited evidence of the safety of MMR compared to its single component vaccines from studies that had a low risk of bias. The few studies least likely to be affected by systematic error pointed to a likely association with fewer upper respiratory tract infections, increased febrile convulsions in the first two weeks
post vaccination and no increased incidence of aseptic meningitis (for Jeryl-Lynn strain-containing mumps vaccine). Low risk of bias evidence did not support a causal association with Crohn’s disease, ulcerative colitis or autism."

Huh...waddya know?  I did reference a study.  I provided a whole paragraph from a study.  One that you didn't read because you don't care what the science says. :)
Quote from: me
"I have absolutely no problem with providing further substantiation"
Quote from: moron
Apparently you do.
The full quote ends "you just need to point out the specific point of contention".  Have you pointed out a specific point that wasn't responded to?  Not really.  I've said it several times.  Say words like: "You said X.  Can you provide a reference for that?" and I'll provide one. 

But of course, you have absolutely no interest in challenging your poor brain with a belief contrary to your own.  Otherwise you would have asked. :)

Quote from: moron
And where are your posted studies? Hmmm?
Well there is that one right up there....the point is if you're whining what I'm posting is merely my opinion (which apparently it isn't so your whining is incorrect) then we ask: "What have you been posting?"  Seems like you're just posting empty words.

But again...you're not interested in knowing that.  :) 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 06, 2015, 05:21:43 AM
Quote
If HVAC repairmen used JB Weld, they would not have to charge as much for their repairs.  Instead, they sell new parts that folks do not even need.  I have repaired my heat pump with JB Weld and it is still working after 3 years now.  Total cost?  $3.00.  Estimate from the repairman?  $450.00.

You kind of have the right mentality. I personally have been fixing stuff since I was 5 years old. I'm a jack of all trades master of none. I'll admit that but I have been fixing stuff since 5 years old...

As of right now, I know the following.

-In any power supply that gets plugged in the wall, will stop working due to only cheap capacitors. A new one from the company will set you back $20 USD while the only thing that went bad is a $.10 cent USD capacitor.

-Most LCD TV's fail in the power supply high side in the board. Could be a diode, could be a cap, could be a relay, 90% of the problem is in the power supply. Same applies to computer monitors.

-Most of the USB wifi adapters that suffer from signal problems, or what not, is due to the chip getting over heated. The same applies to game consoles. You know the ps4/xbox one light of death deal. Same thing. The chip gets over heated due to the manufacturer using cheap products to save money...but ultimately, when the chip gets overheated, the solder gets compromised and develops bad connections. This is 100% facts.

-your dishwashers' motor, or an HVAC, motor will fail due to the bearings. They don't use ball bearing, they use copper sleeves along with carbon fiber shims as bearings...when those wear out, and they will, your motor shaft will “weld”...= rubbing metal to metal with no lubrication.


Etc etc etc...all of this is well understood and can be prevented. They just have to use products that will last for 30 years. But, I believe that they do it on purpose. Just imagine if they make a products that can last for 30 years? How can they sell more products and make a profit?

So you have a point that you can save a lot of money by using JB weld, and not only that, you can actually use a welder to weld it, or a tap and die with a screw = instead of using jb weld, use a metal screw to keep it all together.

The problem is that I believe that they are cutting CORNERS with medicine too to save money. When they do that, they are not gabling with machines anymore, they are gambling our health. “sir the vaccine is not ready to shit out”, “i don't care I have a quota to meet, ship it!!!”, “let them figure out later what went wrong”.

That is the mentality of MANDATORY vaccinations. It cannot be allowed to do as they wish turning us into human lab rats.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 06, 2015, 05:39:02 AM
Why begin your post with some long meandering pointless story?
The problem is that I believe that they are cutting CORNERS with medicine too to save money. When they do that, they are not gabling with machines anymore, they are gambling our health.
...and the evidence for this is what exactly.  See instead of just vomiting up things about PSU's you could have been looking for actual evidence to support your point about medicine.  Do people normally listen to you?  Seems like a waste of their time.

Just sayin'
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 06, 2015, 05:58:30 AM
Quote
...and the evidence for this is what exactly.  See instead of just vomiting up things about PSU's you could have been looking for actual evidence to support your point about medicine.  Do people normally listen to you?  Seems like a waste of their time.

Yawn! hey there pet. Go sit down I'll change your diaper later 'cus I'm busy right now.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 06, 2015, 06:04:26 AM
Yawn! hey there pet. Go sit down I'll change your diaper later 'cus I'm busy right now.
You can namecall all you want but it doesn't change that you spent three or four paragraphs talking about nothing medically relevant.  Finally you make some kind of point and....nothing.:)

Next time you could just not post.  It would be almost identical.  :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 06, 2015, 06:14:00 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/11/health/chick-fil-a-chicken-antibiotics/

If this is true, I will be buying more from them.

Wait, I think I heard something, ummm nah just crickets in the distance.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 06, 2015, 06:50:04 AM

Huh...waddya know?  I did reference a study.  I provided a whole paragraph from a study.

Below is a pdf that 'states' that the Cochrane reviews are considered by most experts to provide the gold standard of evidence based medical science.

But the pdf  isnt 'claiming' that.  ;)

See, if you believe that it is not possible that the studies you 'follow' can be flawed, with intention or not, then you are as gullible as you claim all of us are.  ;)

Mags


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 06, 2015, 08:02:36 AM
Autism & Vaccines:
 A New Look At An Old Story

http://www.nvic.org/nvic-archives/newsletter/autismandvaccines.aspx


Italian court rules mercury and aluminum in vaccines cause autism: US media continues total blackout of medical truth
Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/048888_vaccine_adverse_events_autism_INFANRIX_Hexa.html#ixzz3TaQyFR3F (http://www.naturalnews.com/048888_vaccine_adverse_events_autism_INFANRIX_Hexa.html#ixzz3TaQyFR3F)


Mags
[/color]
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on March 06, 2015, 11:46:02 AM
Autism & Vaccines:
 A New Look At An Old Story

http://www.nvic.org/nvic-archives/newsletter/autismandvaccines.aspx


Italian court rules mercury and aluminum in vaccines cause autism: US media continues total blackout of medical truth
Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/048888_vaccine_adverse_events_autism_INFANRIX_Hexa.html#ixzz3TaQyFR3F (http://www.naturalnews.com/048888_vaccine_adverse_events_autism_INFANRIX_Hexa.html#ixzz3TaQyFR3F)


Mags
[/color]
So now it is Al that is a problem?  Is that your thesis?  If it is, then: How much Al do you think seriously raises the risk of triggering autism?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: wattsup on March 06, 2015, 03:11:13 PM
Quit putzing around man.

If you want to vaccinate newborns, just remove the mercury and aluminum. Saving lives by crippling others is not a solution. Otherwise let's all just sit down and play Russian Roulette because that's what it is.

Instead of the VACCINATION INDUSTRY saying, OK, no more heavy metals in our little soup, they pay their way into our lives trying to convince everyone that mercury is good. So what is their other agenda while they spray our skies with chemtrails. F them.

Anyone else trying to poison our babies in this manner would have been shot on site, but these doctors think society has to kiss their asses just because they SAY IT'S SAFE. Well F them man. Don't believe it.

The solution is so simple.

wattsup

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 06, 2015, 03:23:37 PM
Below is a pdf that 'states' that the Cochrane reviews are considered by most experts to provide the gold standard of evidence based medical science.
What does "gold standard" mean?  Flawless?  Then I wouldn't agree with your statement which you claim is the consensus of experts.  A SR is, according to Sackett (who you haven't read either - Out of curiosity are do you have any plans to read anything that is actually science?) the highest level of evidence provided it has homogenity. Cochrane is but one group that produces SRs.   The reason I used the Cochrane SR is because it was provided by a link from safevax a site YOU have linked to indirectly - in that big list of studies which claimed supported vaccine harm.  I picked it at near random to demonstrate that the people who's interpretation you are relying on for your terribly stupid opinions do not appear to have read the studies in their list.

Quote
See, if you believe that it is not possible that the studies you 'follow' can be flawed
Of course they can.  However the LIKELIHOOD of many studies with a reasonably large N utilizing independent patients all being flawed in the same way with the same effect size is very low.
Quote
then you are as gullible as you claim all of us are.  ;)

LOL.  Just to refresh your addled mind.  You claimed that a single poorly controlled case where someone has a two to three week proximity to an event, for a series of symptoms which has no clear diagnosis, by two doctors neither of whom are specialists propose a novel cause for WHICH THERE IS NO DIAGNOSTIC...and you think that's very, very likely to be true.

Here I am showing you evidence which works with thousands to hundreds of thousands of well-controlled cases and you can't accept it? 

I think it's obvious who is gullible here and it sure isn't me. :)

Given all that, do you still want me to read that PDF?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 06, 2015, 03:54:30 PM
Italian court rules mercury and aluminum in vaccines cause autism: US media continues total blackout of medical

Yawn.  I don't read Italian and unlike imbeciles like you I don't read sources written by people who if you cut off their head and replaced it with a plant it would not drastically affect their accuracy.  Here's a link to an Italian press article where some detail is given:http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.initiativecitoyenne.be%2Farticle-cas-d-autisme-pour-le-tribunal-de-rimini-c-est-la-faute-du-vaccin-104s129856.html&sandbox=1

So it appears that the main argument was based on Wakefield.  Seriously?  You think that an analysis of 12 patients by someone who was on the take is really the best source.  Not to mention that Wakefield is contradicted by the CDC whistleblower.  Yep.  If you want to believe the CDC Whistleblower / Hooker analysis you have to consider Wakefield to be wrong.  I explained why in an earlier post with a blow-by-blow on Wakefield's Lancet paper.  You never read that post nor did you read Wakefield's original paper.  How that makes your opinion something better than shit on this topic is something perhaps you can explain?

Not to mention even if we, for the moment move into your fantasy world where those two analyses don't contradict each other.  Why exactly would a court case ever trump research?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 06, 2015, 03:59:22 PM
If you want to vaccinate newborns, just remove the mercury and aluminum. Saving lives by crippling others is not a solution. Otherwise let's all just sit down and play Russian Roulette because that's what it is.
Studies have been done on early mercury exposure - at blood levels much higher than you would ever see through vaccination.  Do I need to tell you the results?  No correlation with IQ and other psycho-social factors (if you search through the history you'll find my link to it - but you won't because that would involve actual work).  The idea that mercury or aluminum have any impact on children in the quantities in vaccines has been refuted several times over.
Quote
The solution is so simple.
Yes it is.  It's getting people like you to actually crack a science textbook.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: wattsup on March 06, 2015, 04:15:13 PM
Studies have been done on early mercury exposure - at blood levels much higher than you would ever see through vaccination.  Do I need to tell you the results?  No correlation with IQ and other psycho-social factors (if you search through the history you'll find my link to it - but you won't because that would involve actual work).  The idea that mercury or aluminum have any impact on children in the quantities in vaccines has been refuted several times over.Yes it is.  It's getting people like you to actually crack a science textbook.

Hahaha. I am a water treatment professional that deals with contaminants everyday.

Just go see what simple manganese in well water does to kids IQ and motor skills. Just by showering.

You think that big business vaccination money cares about kids. Maybe go to their next board meeting when they look at their bottom line. You think just because some doctors who are on the vaccine payroll get up and say it's safe, that it is really safe. Just go ask all those parents who have children in dire straights immediately after a vaccine and let me know how virtuous you will be after that.

Yes the answer is simple. Remove the mercury and aluminum. How much more simple can it be. Actually, their refusal to do so should be sending both alarms to all parents as well as alarms to all law enforcement agencies since this is tantamount to mass poison inoculation and you should be sounding it first as a "smart person" but we all know you will not. It's to tiring to get off your ass.

wattsup

 

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 06, 2015, 06:09:56 PM
Hahaha. I am a water treatment professional that deals with contaminants everyday.

Just go see what simple manganese in well water does to kids IQ and motor skills. Just by showering.

You think that big business vaccination money cares about kids. Maybe go to their next board meeting when they look at their bottom line. You think just because some doctors who are on the vaccine payroll get up and say it's safe, that it is really safe. Just go ask all those parents who have children in dire straights immediately after a vaccine and let me know how virtuous you will be after that.

Yes the answer is simple. Remove the mercury and aluminum. How much more simple can it be. Actually, their refusal to do so should be sending both alarms to all parents as well as alarms to all law enforcement agencies since this is tantamount to mass poison inoculation and you should be sounding it first as a "smart person" but we all know you will not. It's to tiring to get off your ass.

wattsup

Absolutely. Who are we to believe when scandals in gov are run amuck.

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 07, 2015, 03:18:14 AM
Hahaha. I am a water treatment professional that deals with contaminants everyday.
Isn't that what those people who sell water filters door-to-door call themselves?  Anyway that's awesome because that also automatically makes you a statistician and a medical researcher...oh wait!
Quote
You think just because some doctors who are on the vaccine payroll get up and say it's safe, that it is really safe.
No because studies have been done on blood levels much higher than vaccines will ever put in your blood stream.  As well as numerous epidemological studies and toxicity trials and probability theory.  That doesn't mean I can't be wrong.  It just means it's very, very, very, very, very, very, very likely you're an idiot. :)
Quote
Just go ask all those parents who have children in dire straights immediately after a vaccine and let me know how virtuous you will be after that.
Immediately after a vaccine?  You mean in minutes?  Unless its an egg allergy from some product like chick cell cultures.  I suspect that list is short to non-existent.  Vaccine related anaphylaxis itself is only about one in a million doses.  Which means if you vaccinated every child in the US you would only end up with about 315 cases.  What you describe exists it would have to be even more infrequent to escape detection which makes it more likely that anyone who claims this is more likely to be someone lying, mistaken or coincidence.
Quote
Yes the answer is simple. Remove the mercury and aluminum. How much more simple can it be.
Actually it can be even more simple.  Realize that your opinion is baseless.
Quote
Actually, their refusal to do so
There was no refusal to remove Thiomersal.  Depending on where you live it is absent from the vast majority of vaccines.  By dose it's mostly flu vaccines, some older diphtheria and some rarer ones - and often only in trace amounts.   Again depending on where you live changes the amount of aluminum you take in vaccines.  However in most western countries your dietary intake is about the same 5-10mg/day.  Which is about 20 to 40 times what you get in a vaccine. 
Quote
you should be sounding it first as a "smart person" but we all know you will not. It's to tiring to get off your ass.
My apologies that I don't jump up and do something when someone comes to me with zero evidence and a stupid idea.  Perhaps that's your thing but that probably doesn't make you much of a "smart person".
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 07, 2015, 03:22:57 AM
Absolutely. Who are we to believe when scandals in gov are run amuck.
Well for you, the answer seems to be someone like Mike Adams who has no medical education, no work experience in medical research and clearly can not even read a simple published article.

...and you still have absolutely NO INTEREST in seeing the places where he made mistakes.   Seriously why him?  Why didn't you ask a Ouija board?  or tea leaves? or entrail readings? I mean if you drove in the same manner that you spout medical advice you would have been dead decades ago. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 07, 2015, 04:10:35 AM
Quote
Yes the answer is simple. Remove the mercury and aluminum. How much more simple can it be. Actually, their refusal to do so should be sending both alarms to all parents as well as alarms to all law enforcement agencies since this is tantamount to mass poison inoculation and you should be sounding it first as a "smart person" but we all know you will not. It's to tiring to get off your ass.

You're not going to like my answer at all. They are trying to 'control' the population growth rate. IOW, how else to control the population then through MANDATORY vaccinations?

This is not far fetched at all and and it has been shown they they will turn a blind eye if the people who get vaccinated get sick, they would respond with like here from HPV vaccine:

http://sanevax.org/hpv-vaccine-carmen-de-bolivar-tragedy-foretold/

"The girls were being affected by Ouija boards"
"The girls are victims of mass hysteria"

You see the reaction to that.. troll answers from the "experts".

For those pro-vaccine go ahead and do it. But then don't complain about the side effects of your decisions or try to blame those that did not get sick from the vaccine because they never took it.

For those that want to vaccinate blindly your kids, go ahead and do it but just remember, that if you get sick is afterwards, it will probably be from playing with Ouija boards...lol.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 07, 2015, 04:18:26 AM


But then don't complain about the side effects of your decisions or try to blame those that did not get sick from the vaccine because they never took it.

No worries.  Those folks will be dead from some preventable disease so, no need to blame them...they are dead.

Bill

Ever consider that those wanting to shrink the population are the ones claiming that vaccinations are harmful?  Think about it for a minute or two.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 07, 2015, 04:36:50 AM
Quote
No worries.  Those folks will be dead from some preventable disease so, no need to blame them...they are dead.

You understand that an HPV vaccine basically says that your daughter will be a hose when she grows up, right? So since she will be a hose, lets protect the hose with an HPV vaccine! If she grows up to be a hose, the dangers are not just in cervical cancer but most likely from getting killed by some crazy male. Or getting some other type of STD that an HPV vaccine does not protect her against.

You understand that right?

Quote
Ever consider that those wanting to shrink the population are the ones claiming that vaccinations are harmful?  Think about it for a minute or two.

How can that be when we are not injecting them with toxic chemicals? What better way to control the population if not by 'sneaking" in poison gently in to the human body? How can it get detected? No way no how.

Seriously, now I'm curious whats the average age one lives now VS the average age one lived 100 years ago. Do you know?

PS, by hose I mean replace h with wh and s with r.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 07, 2015, 04:37:15 AM
You're not going to like my answer at all. They are trying to 'control' the population growth rate. IOW, how else to control the population then through MANDATORY vaccinations?

This is not far fetched at all
It sure is.  I provided statistics on this before.   If vaccination is an attempt at controlling population it's an exceptionally poor one given the vaccination rate.  Making birth control available has probably done more for altering the growth rate than every vaccine ever given.

Quote
For those pro-vaccine go ahead and do it. But then don't complain about the side effects of your decisions or try to blame those that did not get sick from the vaccine because they never took it.
Did you even read that post?  Probably not.  It's just like mags-the-moron.

Quote from: most stupid person alive
What’s more, the symptoms experienced by many girls are identical to those of a patient that Dr. Uribe personally treated: muscle weakness, shortness of breath, joint pain, etc., and blood tests indicating a high level of aluminum. All these symptoms appeared after the third Gardasil shot. After a detoxification treatment, this patient showed improvement.
Gardasil has 200-300 mcg of aluminum in it.  An average person ingests 20-40x that.  There is no way a real test indicated Gardasil.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 07, 2015, 04:50:22 AM
You understand that an HPV vaccine basically says that your daughter will be a  when she grows up, right? So since she will be a , lets protect the  with an HPV vaccine! If she grows up to be a , the dangers are not just in cervical cancer but most likely from getting killed by some crazy male.
Well that's impressively neanderthal of you.  Actually unless having a few sexual partners before she gets married means "s-l-u-t" in your dictionary then you are - as usual-wrong.  In fact why don't we have a backwards day?  Let's take everything Joel says and invert the context.  I bet it would be like talking to someone intelligent....
Quote
How can that be when we are not injecting them with toxic chemicals?
By dying of vaccine preventable illnesses - only after you endanger other peoples lives.
Quote
What better way to control the population if not by 'sneaking" in poison gently in to the human body?
Statistics say "almost any other method people have tried".
Quote
How can it get detected? No way no how.
Well how exactly do you imagine this "poison" works?  How does it keep you from getting pregnant when it's not in your body or if it is in your body how does it not show up on a number of tests or why couldn't you just test the vaccine ampules?

Oh right you have no idea because this is just something you made up.  moron.

Seriously, now I'm curious whats the average age one lives now VS the average age one lived 100 years ago. Do you know?
[/quote]
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 07, 2015, 04:51:37 AM
Quote
Gardasil has 200-300 mcg of aluminum in it.  An average person ingests 20-40x that.

From where does an average person ingest 300 mcg of aluminum X 40X on a daily basis or even weekly?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 07, 2015, 05:05:12 AM
sark, by now I  know you are a male nurse
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 07, 2015, 05:06:34 AM
From where does an average person ingest 300 mcg of aluminum X 40X on a daily basis or even weekly?
Mostly food but tiny amounts are ingested through air and water.  It's the most abundant metal in the earths crust - do you really think you can avoid it?  Your kidneys evolved to excrete it.  You can pick any person vaccinated or no and find them ingesting about 5-10mg/day
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 07, 2015, 05:07:05 AM
sark, by now I  know you are a male nurse
If you say so...but you haven't been right about just about anything yet so....
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 07, 2015, 05:10:16 AM
From where does an average person ingest 300 mcg of aluminum X 40X on a daily basis or even weekly?

Say aluminum cook ware, aluminum drink cans, (even beer cans...yikes) aluminum eating utensils, food wrapped in aluminum foils, turkeys cooked in aluminum (disposable) cooking pans, gum wrapped in aluminum foil wrappers, writing with aluminum pens, using an aluminum stylus on your phone or I device, (absorbed through the skin)  Aluminum chlorhydrate in antiperspirants, aluminum drinking cups, etc., etc.

It is all around us in our daily lives.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 07, 2015, 05:21:36 AM
Quote
You can pick any person vaccinated or no and find them ingesting about 5-10mg/day

That is way far from 300 mcg?

Plus you are talking from mother nature aluminum vs man made grinding 99% pure aluminum in to powder. There should be a great difference there.

So where is this 400X300mg you speak of?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 07, 2015, 05:32:21 AM
Quote
Say aluminum cook ware, aluminum drink cans, (even beer cans...yikes) aluminum eating utensils, food wrapped in aluminum foils, turkeys cooked in aluminum (disposable) cooking pans, gum wrapped in aluminum foil wrappers, writing with aluminum pens, using an aluminum stylus on your phone or I device, (absorbed through the skin)  Aluminum chlorhydrate in antiperspirants, aluminum drinking cups, etc., etc.

I think you are not doing your research very well.

How many aluminum cook ware do people sell, or do you own? most of them are stainless steel or iron with some type of non stick coating. we have zero aluminum cups or plates...i've never seen aluminum silver wear?

NO matter what you say about aluminum, there are more viruses surrounding your body then you have cells to protect it. what i mean is just because you touch aluminum or cook with it is not the same as someone injecting you microscopic aluminum in your body!

If you can put it in milligrams, that would be great!

Another thing, do you even know why they inject 99% pure aluminum in the body? the immune system white blood cells, or what not, will see it as a foreign object and just take it to the trash to the liver. What's the purpose of injecting pure 99% microscopic aluminum in the body? 

And how much aluminum does the average body absorb in one year? and how much aluminum does the HPV or the flu virus have?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 07, 2015, 05:38:48 AM
I think you are not doing your research very well.

How many aluminum cook ware do people sell, or do you own? most of them are stainless steel or iron with some type of non stick coating. we have zero aluminum cups or plates...i've never seen aluminum silver wear?

NO matter what you say about aluminum, there are more viruses surrounding your body then you have cells to protect it. what i mean is just because you touch aluminum or cook with it is not the same as someone injecting you microscopic aluminum in your body!

If you can put it in milligrams, that would be great!

Another thing, do you even know why they inject 99% pure aluminum in the body? the immune system white blood cells, or what not, will see it as a foreign object and just take it to the trash to the liver. What's the purpose of injecting pure 99% microscopic aluminum in the body? 

And how much aluminum does the average body absorb in one year? and how much aluminum does the HPV or the flu virus have?


Not doing my research?  75% of ALL cookware is made from aluminum.  It is used and preferred because of its high thermal conductivity.  Ever have a muffin?  Cupcake?  Bunt cake?  All aluminum pans Joel.  Better check your cabinet again.  Most of my cookware is AL.  Just about all of the non-stick frying pans are AL.  Do you have any idea how much AL is in your car Joel?  Take a wild guess.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 07, 2015, 05:43:18 AM
Look how tattoos are made from metals, and from the time the 'ink' was injected, the cells are trying to carry to the liver because it is a foreign object. 99% of the people do not understand this, even you. Now the aluminum in the body with the vaccination can only be rejected by the body ONLY! Why do they inject aluminum in the body when they are just injecting a foreign object and hindering the immune system of the body?

http://youtu.be/D0B7F5UbTOQ

BTW, that 'doctor' removing the tattoo did a pretty shitty job removing it in the video. He gets paid to do that for a living! lol, piece of cake in my book.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 07, 2015, 06:01:07 AM
Quote
Not doing my research?  75% of ALL cookware is made from aluminum.

Maybe in your kitchen. spoons nor forks nor knifes can be made from aluminum 'cus the metal is to soft!

Quote
It is used and preferred because of its high thermal conductivity.  Ever have a muffin?  Cupcake?  Bunt cake?  All aluminum pans Joel.

Oh hey there martha stewart!  Just joking. Nothing in any kitchen i've seen has aluminum pots or pans. Just aluminum foil. But there is a big difference covering food with aluminum foil from injecting the food with aluminum powder!

Can you show me the pictures of your aluminum kitchen ware? lol

Quote
Better check your cabinet again.  Most of my cookware is AL.  Just about all of the non-stick frying pans are AL.

Show pictures of your pots and pans?

Quote
Do you have any idea how much AL is in your car Joel?  Take a wild guess.

I won't take a wild guess, i will give you facts. NOT MUCH AT ALL! lol The engine block is the one that may be made from aluminum but those are from expensive exotic cars that are weight conscious. The rest is all metal! lol

Lets see you tell me how much aluminum is in a car and then tell me how much the body absorbs aluminum in the body by riding such aluminum toxic car?

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 07, 2015, 03:55:22 PM
That is way far from 300 mcg?
You don't know how to convert mg to mcg?  250mcg is 0.25 mg.  If you ingest 5mg that's 5000 mcg.  5000/250 = 20. Are you a high-school student?  (That would explain a lot)
Quote
Plus you are talking from mother nature aluminum vs man made grinding 99% pure aluminum in to powder.
*sigh* Aluminum is an element.  If you want to pretend that there is some aluminum toxicity at some made-up level.  You don't get to go back and pretend "Oh, well it's a special kind of aluminum"
Quote
There should be a great difference there.
Why?  Because Joel-who-knows-nothing says so?  Actually you're in luck vaccines don't contain elemental aluminum.  They contain aluminum salts. One of the more common is aluminium hydroxide - naturally occurring as gibbsite.
Quote
So where is this 400X300mg you speak of?
Math please.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 08, 2015, 04:45:35 AM
sark, can you explain the difference between "aluminum salts" in a vaccine from "aluminum" that a baby would get from the breast milk?

The point of using "aluminum salts" in antiperspirant is to 'block' the sweat ducts from what I read. IOW, is like 'plugging' the sweat ducts with aluminum salts = stop the sweat ducts from sweating vie brute force.

Now, from my understanding, sweating is the HVAC of the human body! In fact, kangaroos in the desert lick the middle of their arms as to cool their bodies. This can be shown in humans to. you can do a study where your body is over heating. You have to cool your body down since the reason it is sweating, is because it is over heating. Now take one bottle of cold water and ingest it. Now take that same cold bottle of water and not ingest it but put it right next to a big blood artery as to cool the blood stream. The cold bottle next to your big blood artery will cool you more than drinking the bottle of water. OK. 100% facts.

Now why would you want to plug the sweat glands with "aluminum salts" (antiperspirant)? How that does make sense in your mind? Does that not sound kind of stupid to you? or maybe it's something done because businesses need to sell a product?

At any rate, explain the difference between "aluminum salts" in a vaccine from "aluminum" that a baby would get from the breast milk? Because I have a feeling the same attitude is in medicine = sell products.

You are the expert, I'm just learning here.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 08, 2015, 05:11:56 AM
Quote from: Ssssss-ark-Ei-zzzzzzz-En
...
I mean people doubt my sincerity here but I pretty much beg for people to post information to contradict my beliefs.  The only thing I ask is that they show me only the very strong evidence.  Which I'm happy to view, comment on and even change my mind.
...

Sssarkey,

Your extreme desperation is showing once again.

I know, I know.  It's all just an 'act' or a 'pretend'
persona.

Not very effective is it?  Your 'handler' has given you
a bum steer.  You're doing an excellent job of shooting
yourself in the foot with nearly every post you make.

Strong Evidence of sincerity you say?

Very humorous if nothing else...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 08, 2015, 08:36:35 PM
sark, can you explain the difference between "aluminum salts" in a vaccine from "aluminum" that a baby would get from the breast milk?
Most of the research I've seen about the contents of breast milk doesn't differentiate the initial compound of the aluminum.  Either it's simply not being researched or by the time it reaches the child it's been reduced to elemental form.  Aluminum hydroxide is in a few different medications including some antacids - where it is the primary component.

Quote
Now why would you want to plug the sweat glands with "aluminum salts" (antiperspirant)? How that does make sense in your mind? Does that not sound kind of stupid to you? or maybe it's something done because businesses need to sell a product?
Because the waste products of specific bacterial are not very pleasant smelling and the lipids from particular sweat glands are their food.  Reducing the food means reducing the waste which means reducing odor.  For people who have more lipid producing sweat glands this is useful for other people it is not.  In Japan there is almost no such thing as antiperspirant because Asian people have an allele which causes them to have fewer lipid producing glands.

Ironically it's companies that use natural remedies like baking soda in their deodorants which are the people trying to scam you or more specifically it's because of people like SeaMonkey who spread around wrong information which makes companies attempt to market to the uninformed.

Quote
I have a feeling the same attitude is in medicine = sell products.
Medicine has one of the highest (if not the highest) quality controls and efficacy standards of any widely used human product.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 08, 2015, 08:46:45 PM
Strong Evidence of sincerity you say?
Well you and a number of others here are completely uninterested in attempting to falsify your own views.  It's simply far more likely for someone who is seeking out ways that their ideas might be incorrect to end up with correct ideas than people like you who seek out ideas which happen to agree with your pre-existing prejudices.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on March 09, 2015, 04:06:40 AM
Well you and a number
What number?

Quote
of others here
Yes, and so?

Quote
completely uninterested in attempting
Think so?

Quote
correct ideas than people like
Well,...

Quote
your pre-existing prejudices
Nah!

Thanks  Sir Trollalot for your insights, it is very much appreciated.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 09, 2015, 04:19:27 AM
What number?
Well you would be part of the list of intellectually dishonest folk on this post as you...
a) Seem to have no problem presenting weak evidence which will probably mislead people and...
b) Seem to have no problem allowing others to post weak evidence without commenting on it's misleading nature.

So, at least from where I stand you don't care if people are fed good information or bad information as long as they come around to your point of view.  Perhaps that's considered ethical where you come from?
Quote
it is very much appreciated.
I live to serve. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on March 09, 2015, 04:38:39 AM
Well you would be part of the list of intellectually dishonest folk on this post as you...
a) Seem to have no problem presenting weak evidence which will probably mislead people and...
b) Seem to have no problem allowing others to post weak evidence without commenting on it's misleading nature.
That is a load of codswallop Trollalot!
Quote
So, at least from where I stand you don't care if people are fed good information or bad information as long as they come around to your point of view.  Perhaps that's considered ethical where you come from?
And that is again a load of codswallop.
Quote
I live to serve. :)
Serve who?
Your paymasters?
Not the parents who need vaccine information to save their children from harm!
I very much dislike you for trolling this thread with disinformation.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on March 09, 2015, 05:01:55 AM
Medicine has one of the highest (if not the highest) quality controls and efficacy standards of any widely used human product.
That is an outright lie Trollalot!
Who are your paymasters?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 09, 2015, 05:23:24 AM
For the Trolls:
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 09, 2015, 05:23:47 AM
That is a load of codswallop
Nope, it's a logical consequence of your not-very-ethical behavior.

Either you're posting things that are 100% strong evidence or you are posting things which contain weak evidence.  If only parts of what you are posting is strong then the ethical thing to do is to point out the parts which are weak (or strong) which you have flat-out refused to do.  So make up your mind. Is everything you post the best evidence for your position OR are you foisting weak evidence on people.

Similarly either everything everyone posts here is 100% perfectly strong evidence or some of it is weak.  You have at not time criticised people like Joel or SeaMonkey for posting weak evidence.  So again either you are behaving unethically and allowing weak evidence to pass without criticism or what is being posted is the best evidence available.   Again, let me know when you figure out what you're saying.
Quote
I very much dislike you for trolling this thread with disinformation.
...and yet you seem unable to either point out any strong evidence against my position or any place where I've provided disinformation.
That is an outright lie Trollalot!
Nope...but if you can provide an example of an industry which provides products for wide spread human use which has higher standards than the medicine.  Then I'd love to see you provide them and a description of how their standards are generally higher. :)
Quote
Who are your paymasters?
See again this would be an interesting conversation if this wasn't simply an insult.  I would love to talk to someone who actually thinks that I receive some cash when I post because that would open up some truly interesting talk about how you think this occurs but alas you're just being an ass. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 09, 2015, 05:31:25 AM
Quote from: Ssssss-ar-Kei-zzzzzzzzz-En
I've provided disinformation

Aye, that you have.  But then, that is your task.

It would seem that your efforts have been futile.

Desperately futile.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 09, 2015, 06:21:40 AM
For the Trolls:

The first thing that came into my mind after reading this is that the USA, is the modern JP Morgan. lol.

This is one of the reason that when I read about an average USA citizen critique against anti-vaccines, I'm like but you are obese! You need to drink fat free water. lol...sorry but just because the majority of the pro-vaccines are talking does not mean they are speaking the truth with their diabetes.

They are just being controlled. = Controlled people making fun of people that are speaking truth and trying to help for their benefit! It's crazy. Is like they fight to be kept blind and since the majority of them are blind, then it must be true that they are 100% right. And since the minority who are doing all the hard research (with out getting payed) are minority, then they must be wrong.  ;)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 09, 2015, 01:03:50 PM
Aye, that you have.
...but you can not demonstrate where.  I on the other than have pointed out a number of places where what you have posted is wrong, misused data or the person who wrote it is unqualified or cripplingly stupid.  If you like I can recount some of those places for you again. 

Nice to see that you're pretty upset about all of this.  Perhaps you would consider talking to someone about this? :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 09, 2015, 03:37:43 PM
sorry but just because the majority of the pro-vaccines are talking does not mean they are speaking the truth
But lets take a look at the sample of people with an anti-vaccine position here...

Pretty much all of you have never picked up a study and read it all the way through...including studies which purport to agree with you like Wakefield
Pretty much all of you have no real background in medicine, medical research or statistics...
Pretty much all of you rely on references from people who are just as uninformed as yourselves...
Pretty much all of you are either unwilling or unable to differentiate strong evidence from weak...

Now it's certainly possible you're all just trolling.  However if this is representative of anti-vaccine people then it seems pretty unlikely that you're right and the vast majority of medicine is wrong.

Just sayin'
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 09, 2015, 10:11:04 PM
Welcome to the New Order of the World. (http://www.zengardner.com/western-medicine-decline-death-informed-consent/)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 09, 2015, 10:56:32 PM
Why the 'West' and its concept of 'Education'
is doomed to failure: (http://thesaker.is/russias-remarkable-renaissance/)

Quote from: the Article
An American Physics professor from MIT who taught in Moscow universities in the early 1990s told me, “When a Russian science student enters first year university, he or she already has behind them 4 years of biology, 4 of chemistry, of physics, both integral and differential calculus, geometry…they are starting university study at a level comparable to an American post-doctoral student.”
...
Those basics which were also there in American schools until the 1950s, were all but abandoned during the 1980s. American industry wanted docile “dumbed-down” workers who asked no questions.
...
Russian biology, Russian math, Russian physics, Russian astrophysics, Russian geophysics—all disciplines approached their subject with a quality that had long before disappeared from American science. I know, as I grew up during the late 1950’s during the “Sputnik Shock,” where we were told as high school pupils we had to work doubly hard to “catch up to the Russians.” There was a kernel of truth, but the difference was not lack of American students working hard. In those days we worked and studied pretty hard. It was the quality of Russian scientific education that was so superior.

The West, under American Influence, has become
morally corrupted, ethically corrupted, and financially
bankrupt.  Why in the minds of the Psychopaths in
Power of the West does Russia pose such a 'threat.?'

Because the Russia of Old is re-emerging.  It is
re-discovering the value of ethics, morality and honesty.
Russia pursues Peace rather than War.

Which of course raises the question:  "Are vaccines and
vaccinations in Russia significantly different from those
in the West?"
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 10, 2015, 12:35:10 AM
Which of course raises the question:  "Are vaccines and vaccinations in Russia significantly different from those in the West?"
In terms of schedule they are similar.  They vaccinate against TB the US doesn't. They don't do rotovirus, encephalitis, varicella or pneumococcus.  Infant mortality rate in Russia is 1.6x that of the US and 2x that of Canada.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 11, 2015, 08:32:39 PM
Vaccine World Summit to present Truth (http://vaccineworldsummit.com/summit-experts/) about Vaccines
and Vaccinations.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on March 11, 2015, 08:46:56 PM
Oh my, you have linked a conference headlined by the disgraced fraud Andrew Wakefield that promotes the very lies that cost Wakefield his license to practice medicine in the UK.  Maybe they can save money on the venue and share it with a conference on how to invest with Madoff, or how to cure chronic disease with Dardik.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MileHigh on March 11, 2015, 09:33:07 PM
Oh my, you have linked a conference headlined by the disgraced fraud Andrew Wakefield that promotes the very lies that cost Wakefield his license to practice medicine in the UK.  Maybe they can save money on the venue and share it with a conference on how to invest with Madoff, or how to cure chronic disease with Dardik.

Once in a while when SeaMonkey links to some fantastical story on some web site I have never heard of I click on the home link just to see what the front page of the web site looks like.  Very often it is some crazy whackadoo brain-eating web site for basement hovel conspiracy theorists on meds.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 11, 2015, 11:04:45 PM
Oh my, you have linked a conference headlined by the disgraced fraud Andrew Wakefield that promotes the very lies that cost Wakefield his license to practice medicine in the UK.  Maybe they can save money on the venue and share it with a conference on how to invest with Madoff, or how to cure chronic disease with Dardik.

How the BMJ and Brian Deer Fixed the Record to Destroy Andrew Wakefield Part 2

http://www.ageofautism.com/2015/03/how-the-bmj-and-brian-deer-fixed-the-record-to-destroy-andrew-wakefield-part-2.html




Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 11, 2015, 11:07:59 PM
Might as well post both sides of the story.  ;)   Oh, this is the only side I see. ;D

Statement From Dr. Andrew Wakefield: No Fraud. No Hoax. No Profit Motive.

http://wesupportandywakefield.com/

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 11, 2015, 11:26:15 PM
How the BMJ and Brian Deer Fixed the Record to Destroy Andrew Wakefield Part 2
http://www.ageofautism.com/2015/03/how-the-bmj-and-brian-deer-fixed-the-record-to-destroy-andrew-wakefield-part-2.html
Yawn.  Something you haven't read - is there anything that you do that isn't just mindless vomiting?

My guess is no.   Last time you answered a question of mine you got slapped down.  So I understand your reluctance. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 12, 2015, 12:25:56 AM
Yawn.  Something you haven't read - is there anything that you do that isn't just mindless vomiting?

My guess is no.   Last time you answered a question of mine you got slapped down.  So I understand your reluctance. :)

Yeah yeah, slap slap. If you have to rely on me to coerce you, then what a pitty for the rest of the 43,00 plus readers when it comes to you proving your position. If you think that just putting me down validates your side of the argument for the readers, lol, keep em coming.  ;) Insult and slap all you want. Thats all you seem to show here. 

Man, you would make a terrible teacher. ::)

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 12, 2015, 12:48:10 AM
The 'indoctrinated' of The Matrix are big talkers.

Their inflated egos and regurgitated propaganda
are all they have.  They are in love with themselves
and their perceived cleverness.  Anything which
could threaten the illusion and the self-love is, to
their way of thinking, the stuff of conspiracies.

Their greatest fear is being branded as a Truth Seeker
or one who Thinks Critically.  Wandering away from the
herd of fellow 'indoctrinateds' would be a fate worse
than death itself.

As a consequence they eat, drink, walk, talk and sleep
Desperation.  Imprisoned by their own desires.

They are blind to common sense and are therefore to be
pitied.  They know not what they do.

The Mind is a Terrible Thing to Waste.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Farmhand on March 12, 2015, 01:06:51 AM
Not all Vaccines are created equal, some are live and some are dead, some are good to use some are ok to use and a lot are bad to use.

The problems can come from the vaccine itself or from the adjuvant used or from the preservative used in multi-dose vials.

Adjuvant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjuvant

To be safer get information about the exact vaccine you are considering or are being forced to take, if it was me I would steer clear of any live virus vaccinations or any vaccinations from multi-dose vials, also reject any vaccinations containing Aluminium
or the old mercury based Thiomersal which is or was basically a preservative made from mercury to prevent all the proteins derived from monkey brains and all kinds of other nice stuff from going off in the multi-dose vials.

A lot of vaccines are unnecessary and some vaccinated people can spread the disease. If it were not for vaccines some of the diseases vaccinated for would be extinct.

Many of the diseases vaccinated for were in decline when vaccinations were introduced and this perpetuates the disease keeping it widespread indefinitely.

Like almost anything, a basically good thing (Vaccination) which can be done naturally has become the cash cow of the big pharma
and they of course are mixing in a lot of money spinning vaccines with the spiel that all vaccines are safe and necessary.

When in reality only some are important and most are harmful but unnecessary or even just perpetuate the disease.

The argument that un-vaccinated children are a risk to vaccinated children does not even make sense as the vaccination is supposed to protect them, the reality is the opposite the vaccinated children are a danger to the un-vaccinated ones and should be quarantined until they are no longer a threat to un-vaccinated children and adults as well.

They want the un-vaccinated children to be excluded so that it does not become apparent that the vaccinated children are speading some of the diseases to the un-vaccinated children.

If a vaccinated child passed a disease to an un-vaccinated child I would see that as an breach of common law and people should be liable for damages and/or criminal prosecution.


Fight for your right to not be vaccinated and also fight for vaccinated children to be separated from the vaccinated ones in the same way they fight to have the vaccinated children excluded, people should fight the opposite fight to have the vaccinated children excluded from interacting with un-vaccinated children.

The forced or "pushed vaccinations" should only be a very few. And with no evidence of any harm being caused by them.

Many diseases were in decline when the vaccine for them was introduced and this prevented the extinction of the diseases. This meant they could sell vaccines for those diseases for ever and make them compulsory and routine and a base money spinner for big pharma.

Ask the doctor for an ingredients list for the vaccine, if they cannot provide it then refuse the vaccine. We at least have the right to a full ingredients list and where the ingredients were derived from before being injected with the vaccine. That's a given, they cannot argue that.

If most people actually saw the list of ingredients and what they are made from they would likely refuse to allow vaccination of their children.


Get the list or just let them inject you with a bunch of stuff that probably half or more of the doctors don't even know what they contain.

If your doctor cannot tell you exactly what is in the vaccine then that doctor is uninformed and should not be injecting people with stuff when they don't even know what it contains. That sounds criminal to me.

..

We should be trying to eradicate the old real bad diseases as some were, not perpetuate them for profit.

..

P.S. SeaMonkey is right we should use our brains before we allow anyone to inject us with monkey brains derivatives.
Get informed, it's your responsibility.

..
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 12, 2015, 01:35:45 AM
You've said it very eloquently FarmHand!  Excellent!

Now, for the Chest Pounding Apes (http://www.zengardner.com/hamster-wheels-matrix/) who are stuck on the
Hamster Wheels of The Matrix:

Quote from: the Article
...
You can’t awaken others unless you’ve been awakened yourself. Sure, there’s all kinds of misinformation here to address at level after level, but is our response conscious, fully awake and aware, to where we can offer a true solution to mankind’s predicament?

That takes humility. Knowing we don’t know squat compared to what we’ve come to know is available to us is imperative. But that attitude alone is arguably the greatest propellent to Truth. The hungry, honest, grateful and sincere heart will find the truth, but it will be met with a lot of opposition by those who couldn’t proceed on the path for one reason or another.

It seems they camp out and take their “positions”, guarding what they consider to be their personal trek up the mountain and daring to decide who may ascend and who may not, like self appointed machine gun bunkers. This isn’t always the case, but if you’ve noticed not just with the continuous infighting of the outside world but also with the alternative community of late, the infighting has stepped up and some pretty nasty salvos are being lobbed from these very same perspectives. Some are obvious plants and trolls, others just very misguided and shortsighted people.

You can’t force a wake up on anyone. In fact we shouldn’t, even if we could. But we can’t. It’s always a choice. That’s the majesty of free will which we’d be violating, which brings up another symptom of controllers and manipulators...
...

More at the link above.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 12, 2015, 01:36:41 AM
One of those strange 'hiccups' where a posting was duplicated.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on March 12, 2015, 02:23:56 AM
How the BMJ and Brian Deer Fixed the Record to Destroy Andrew Wakefield Part 2

http://www.ageofautism.com/2015/03/how-the-bmj-and-brian-deer-fixed-the-record-to-destroy-andrew-wakefield-part-2.html




Mags
The discgraced fraud Andrew Wakefield destroyed himself.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on March 12, 2015, 02:58:52 AM
Once in a while when SeaMonkey links to some fantastical story on some web site I have never heard of I click on the home link just to see what the front page of the web site looks like.  Very often it is some crazy whackadoo brain-eating web site for basement hovel conspiracy theorists on meds.
The ads on those webshites are even more confidence inspiring:

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 12, 2015, 03:02:12 AM
It seems that Big Pharma, Big Medicine, Big Vaccine
and all of their 'supporters' are transitioning into
High Desperation Mode:

Fabricated Clinical Tests (http://www.naturalnews.com/048957_mumps_vaccine_Merck_fraud.html)

As promised, The Apocalypse exposes all lies
and reveals all Truths.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 12, 2015, 03:23:54 AM
Yeah yeah, slap slap.
Not sure what you're doing behind that keyboard...but I'm pretty sure I don't want to know.
Quote
If you have to rely on me to coerce you
Either you have a position you can talk about or you can't.  You don't.  You're not even the tiniest bit interested in anything that might contrast with the positions you've posted.

I'm completely interested in having my opinion changed but no matter how many times I've asked for strong evidence for your opinions you can't seem to give me any.  It seems pretty obvious that it doesn't take much energy to type: "This is strong evidence" and then paste whatever it is you are currently reading or a url to a specific time-index in a video.  Since you are not willing to expend even the smallest most pathetic amount of energy to support what appears to be your position.  Then I'm already bored.
Quote
then what a pitty for the rest of the 43,00 plus readers

Are you expecting fractional readers?  Are you 0,01 of a reader?
Quote
when it comes to you proving your position
To whom?   Pretty much all the posters like yourself are either trolls or have zero intellectual integrity.  So who exactly would I be convincing?  Clearly not you.  I mean you and SeaMonkey are so disinterested in your OWN position you won't even read your own links.
Quote
If you think that just putting me down validates your side of the argument for the readers
I doubt there are many readers and all I'm really doing is pointing out that none of you believe in your own evidence enough to stand up and tell me where the strong parts are.  I think that kicks you in the teeth more than rebutting every line from every website who's head would probably be more useful if it was scooped out and used as a planter rather than posting about vaccines. :)
Quote
slap all you want
Dude, if you are slapping anything.  I really don't want to know.
Quote
Man, you would make a terrible teacher.
To someone who can neither articulate the strengths of their position or discuss it like yourself?  Sure, I'm absolutely lousy at teaching people who can only vomit up links.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 12, 2015, 03:25:55 AM
P.S. SeaMonkey is right we should use our brains
Let me know when you start.

How about begin with stating clearly and unambiguously the strongest evidence for your position.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on March 12, 2015, 03:33:21 AM
Big Snakeoil and Big Stupidity and
their single digit IQ drones are even
more desperate to take advantage
of the few uninsured people who
can't afford proper healthcare. The
unrestrained greed of those immoral
egoists helps sprouting the weirdest
and most bizarre examples of antisocial
business schemes ever imaginable.





Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Farmhand on March 12, 2015, 03:52:22 AM
Let me know when you start.

How about begin with stating clearly and unambiguously the strongest evidence for your position.

I began using my brains at birth I think or maybe just before, I haven't stopped since.

And I don't need to state any evidence for anything. I've done my research and have no need to go looking for studies I've already read. I urge people to do their own research and to use their own discretion.

I will restate. I am not against vaccination as such.

The history of vaccines and the decline of the diseases and when the vaccines were introduced is not so hard to find. Also is the information about the perpetuation of diseases by vaccinations.

This is not a classroom or a media outlet. It's a discussion forum.

Any more disparaging remarks from you towards me will only result in me ignoring your posts.

Regards.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 12, 2015, 04:24:36 AM
Not sure what you're doing behind that keyboard...but I'm pretty sure I don't want to know.Either you have a position you can talk about or you can't.  You don't.  You're not even the tiniest bit interested in anything that might contrast with the positions you've posted.

I'm completely interested in having my opinion changed but no matter how many times I've asked for strong evidence for your opinions you can't seem to give me any.  It seems pretty obvious that it doesn't take much energy to type: "This is strong evidence" and then paste whatever it is you are currently reading or a url to a specific time-index in a video.  Since you are not willing to expend even the smallest most pathetic amount of energy to support what appears to be your position.  Then I'm already bored.
Are you expecting fractional readers?  Are you 0,01 of a reader?To whom?   Pretty much all the posters like yourself are either trolls or have zero intellectual integrity.  So who exactly would I be convincing?  Clearly not you.  I mean you and SeaMonkey are so disinterested in your OWN position you won't even read your own links.I doubt there are many readers and all I'm really doing is pointing out that none of you believe in your own evidence enough to stand up and tell me where the strong parts are.  I think that kicks you in the teeth more than rebutting every line from every website who's head would probably be more useful if it was scooped out and used as a planter rather than posting about vaccines. :)Dude, if you are slapping anything.  I really don't want to know.To someone who can neither articulate the strengths of their position or discuss it like yourself?  Sure, I'm absolutely lousy at teaching people who can only vomit up links.

More blah blah blah and more yadda yadda yadda.  Good stuff! ::)


When you can lay down that there is "strong evidence" that there is no intent to push vacs that are designed to harm people, then I will take a real good look at that.  ;) But you cannot. You can only say to trust them. ;)

There should be a poll at the top of this thread on this subject. ;)


Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 12, 2015, 04:33:42 AM
I began using my brains at birth I think or maybe just before, I haven't stopped since.
Then by that standard everyone is already using their brains concerning vaccination.  I guess your job is done.
Quote
I've done my research
Probably not.
Quote
and have no need to go looking for studies I've already read. I urge people to do their own research and to use their own discretion.
Why?  It would seem since you made a clear and balanced investigation that posting the strongest most compelling evidence here would be very useful.  Far more useful than just saying "let's use our brains".

Quote
This is not a classroom or a media outlet. It's a discussion forum.
Then discuss your strong evidence.   
Quote
Any more disparaging remarks from you towards me will only result in me ignoring your posts.
I should be so lucky.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 12, 2015, 04:50:00 AM
When you can lay down that there is "strong evidence" that there is no intent to push vacs that are designed to harm people,
LOL so what now?  There are like two or three independent clauses in that sentence.
Quote
then I will take a real good look at that.  ;)
Unlikely.  You can't even read your own links and remember according to you temporal proximity is a 80% sure diagnosis of cause.  So it's not like you're going to have any insight. :)
Quote
But you cannot. You can only say to trust them. ;)
I can say that there is good evidence that they are very safe and for the most part very effective.  I've already provided some evidence for that in this thread early on.  The problem was that Cap-Mo-Ron wouldn't accept it and also wouldn't define what his requirements for good evidence were.   Which is why he got nixed.

Do you want to step up to the plate?  Probably not because you're both stupid and something of a weasel but in case I'm wrong.  Go ahead tell me what evidence would satisfy you that vaccines are safe and effective?  I have no idea what people *intend* to do with these safe and effective medicines.  I don't work for that part of the shadow government.  :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 12, 2015, 05:14:38 AM
Did you know:

The very wealthy families who occupy the upper echelon of the
Power Pyramid representing the power structure of Planet
Earth do not do vaccinations.  They do not do Allopathic Medicine
or any other institutionalized form of "medicine."  Yet, they are
exceedingly healthy.  As long as they remain loyal to "the AGENDA"
that is.  Those few who have deviated have been prone to suicide
of the 'assisted' variety.

The question is:  Why should not everyone else follow their example?

There is an answer to this question.  I wonder who knows...

Sarkey,

Your latest posting above is demonstrating signs of extreme,
almost violent, desperation.  Are you beginning to feel the
frustration a wee bit too much?  Getting close to cracking up
are you?

Such a shame.  Maybe this will cheer you up:
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 12, 2015, 05:28:56 AM
They do not do Allopathic Medicine
Ok that was all very amusing.  However not long ago you said that in your fictional world there are vaccines which have zero side effects which protect against all diseases making people virtually immortal.  Vaccines are allopathic medicine.

I kind of have to believe you're all trolls now.  I mean nobody is calling you out on what is effectively a "we are run by the lizard people" theory. :) :) :) :) :)

Edit: Awesome! SeaMonkey used the word "desperation" again.  Chalk myself up another point. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on March 12, 2015, 01:40:07 PM
I kind of have to believe you're all trolls now.
Sir Trollalot has spoken.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on March 12, 2015, 01:45:17 PM
I don't work for that part of the shadow government.  :)
What part of the shadow government are you working for if I may ask?
Or are you trolling in your spare time?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 12, 2015, 02:34:56 PM
What part of the shadow government are you working for if I may ask?
The part that puts subliminal messages into ice cubes on whiskey adverts.   Everything's about specialization these days.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 12, 2015, 05:52:12 PM
Quote from: Sar-Kee-ZZZZZZZZZZzz
Ok that was all very amusing.  However not long ago you said that in your fictional world there are vaccines which have zero side effects which protect against all diseases making people virtually immortal.  Vaccines are allopathic medicine.

Sarkey,

You're clearly losing it!  Your mind is beginning to disintegrate!

While we have the technology to produce such vaccines which
are completely safe and effective it is not being done.  You might
wonder why that is?

Immortality comes at a future time but not as a result of any
advances in medical technology.  Death is only temporary.

The Privileged Few at the top do not receive any Allopathic Treatments.
How is it that they never suffer disease or ailment?  With the exception
of the occasional member who falls out of favor...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 12, 2015, 06:03:19 PM
Quote from: Ssssss-Arkey
"we are run by the lizard people"

It was only a matter of time until this gem cam tumbling
out from the depths of your inner turmoil.  Obviously,
you've had 'the treatment.'  You are aware of who your
True Master is.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 12, 2015, 07:52:00 PM
It was only a matter of time until this gem cam tumbling out from the depths of your inner turmoil.  Obviously, you've had 'the treatment.'  You are aware of who your True Master is.
Uh...so you are seriously advocating that real anthropomorphic reptiles run the world?

Please say "yes". :)

The Privileged Few at the top do not receive any Allopathic Treatments.
Then who are the vaccines that treat any virus for?
Quote
How is it that they never suffer disease or ailment?
By the fact that they are figments of your imagination like the Lizard People. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on March 13, 2015, 12:03:21 AM
Food for thought:


http://www.thelocal.de/20150312/doctor-proves-measles-virus (http://www.thelocal.de/20150312/doctor-proves-measles-virus)


 ;D
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 13, 2015, 12:51:00 AM
An American tells us what is wrong with education (http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/feedback/12-03-2015/130020-russia_western_colleges_universities-0/) in
the West.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 13, 2015, 01:07:34 AM
Quote from: Sssssss-ar-Keeeeeee
Uh...so you are seriously advocating that real anthropomorphic reptiles run the world?

Since the 'hint' you dropped is the fruit of your own mind
it would only be fair for you yourself to tell us all of the
gory details of your 'exposure treatment.'  Of course, there
are obvious reasons why you will not and cannot.


Quote from: Sssssss-ar-Keeeeeee
...By the fact that they are figments of your imagination like the Lizard People. :)

Uh-huuuh.   Another feeble attempt at mis-direction and
denial of origin.  Since the concept is the fruit of your own
mind we'll let you own it.

Tell us more about them if you dare.


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Farmhand on March 13, 2015, 01:30:29 AM
Food for thought:


http://www.thelocal.de/20150312/doctor-proves-measles-virus (http://www.thelocal.de/20150312/doctor-proves-measles-virus)


 ;D

Yes it is. That skeptic I think is a nut. However I would not consider a study itself to be actual "proof of a virus existing".

But I think the real question is. What was the source of the outbreak ? I would wager it was the vaccination of some children caused them to be able to transmit the virus, although I can't say for sure if the vaccination is even capable of doing that some can some can't, it depends. Then there could always be an intentional release of the virus (by a vested interest" so that the need for vaccinations is rammed home, where there is a will there is a way. Most important to find the source of the outbreak and make it known as free knowledge.

Apparently the only actual "foot in mouth" disease is kept in labs and all recent outbreaks were breaches in bio security. If they just destroyed what they have in the labs then the disease would be eradicated.

I think they do the same thing with some human diseases as well. eg. Spanish Flu, maybe Small Pox, ect.

..

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 13, 2015, 04:29:15 AM
Quote
some vaccinated people can spread the disease

Quote
They want the un-vaccinated children to be excluded so that it does not become apparent that the vaccinated children are speading some of the diseases to the un-vaccinated children.

This has never crossed my mind but it kind of makes sense. If someone gets vaccinated, lets say, with the flu virus with a live virus (crippled but alive non-the less) the person carrying the weak virus can spread the virus to an un-vaccinated person with that strain.

Never really thought about that but makes sense. A vaccinates person getting a non-vaccinated person sick.

Nice job man never really thought about that before.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 13, 2015, 06:06:06 AM
Vaccine Shedding is the phenomenon. (http://www.vaccineriskawareness.com/Vaccine-Shedding)  The article is quite
comprehensive.

The Industry is so afraid of people learning Truth that they
expend great energy striving to 'debunk' those realities
which they believe 'cause harm' to their cause.

Typical Debunk effort. (http://luckylosing.com/2011/10/13/vaccine-shedding-time-up-for-another-vaccine-myth/)

We must learn Truth in order to make wise decisions.

Notice the desperation in the debunk article?  Reads
almost as if it was created by one or more posters here
in this forum!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 13, 2015, 06:50:20 AM
http://www.vaccineriskawareness.com/Vaccine-Shedding

That's a lot of information to digest but I don't disagree. For example.

Quote
data showing that the virus can be found in people 10 years after

This is olddddddd common sense news. The virus never leaves the body. The vorus just gets 'controlled' by the imune system but never leaves! heck i'm caring flu virus strains since 1988...is just they my immune body just bitch slaps them. The flu virus strains from 1988 are still inside my body, is just that they are no harmful to my body anymore, but I could travel to a place where I meet a culture that has never faced the BITCH flu virus I'm caring, but the bitch virus I'm caring finds a new host! = the new weak cultures immune system.

Why do medical people believe that their medicine destroy the virus? It does not! The virus will always live in their body once you get it. The immune system just learns to put it on check.

When someone injects you with a flu vaccine, they are actually introducing the virus for life. When with out the vaccine, and following preventative behavior, you would never had that virus strain in your body!

A virus never leaves your body once it finds it's way in! it only just gets checked by the immunity and could mutate when your immunity gets weak!!! Plain and simple!

That is kind of being ignorant and going against "evolution". If medicine was 100% true, then why are there no vaccinations for all the viruses in the world!

Not even that, why is the doctors daughter 16 and pregnant? lol

You bring up good points, more than that idot of sarkeishyt...lol

You bring a lot of good points man...time for pro-vaccination to wake up and smell the viruses.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 13, 2015, 02:19:45 PM
Since the 'hint' you dropped is the fruit of your own mind
No it was from that website that the other crazy guy posted about. :)

Quote
Since the concept is the fruit of your own mind we'll let you own it.
So you don't remember the website that you endorsed which talked about this?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 13, 2015, 02:33:53 PM
That's a lot of information
Information is the opposite of what is there.
Quote
This is olddddddd common sense news. The virus never leaves the body. The vorus just gets 'controlled' by the imune system but never leaves! heck i'm caring flu virus strains since 1988...is just they my immune body just bitch slaps them. The flu virus strains from 1988 are still inside my body, is just that they are no harmful to my body anymore, but I could travel to a place where I meet a culture that has never faced the BITCH flu virus I'm caring, but the bitch virus I'm caring finds a new host! = the new weak cultures immune system.
No.  Your body carries antibodies from viruses you have been exposed to.  Shedding from live vaccines is rare and happens for a limited time.  Again serology doesn't show viruses in you - just antibodies. :)
Quote
Why do medical people believe that their medicine destroy the virus? It does not!
Because when you do serology on someone you have too look for antibodies not viruses. :)  Even in people who are unvaccinated who have had diseases. :)  If the virus was active then it would continually be infecting tissue and replicating.  In which case your immune system would have to be pumping out antibodies for every virus you've ever encountered forever.  It's pretty easy to see why that doesn't happen. :)
Quote
A virus never leaves your body once it finds it's way in!
All organic matter discorporates after a while.
Quote
That is kind of being ignorant
Yes you are.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 13, 2015, 08:08:21 PM
The battle of The Truth against The Lies is heating up.

The Forces of Truth, as always, are at a severe disadvantage
because the Forces of the Lie have acquired nearly insurmountable
political, media, institutional and financial power.

Thankfully, in every case, the Truth will always prevail.  Even in the
face of 'impossible' odds!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 13, 2015, 08:56:53 PM
The battle of The Truth against The Lies is heating up.
...and batting for the "lies" team are people like you. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 13, 2015, 09:44:37 PM
Quote from: One Who Knows
All institutions lean toward empowering themselves, and other institutions, and disempowering the individuals that live in total dependence under their wing. The individuals within institutions act as the institution they are under; they do not think as individuals, perform as individuals, or develop as individuals. Rather, they succumb to collective thinking, working for the benefit of institutional illusions. They are paid to leave their humanity at the door.

Sarkey does what he does because he is trapped inside
the 'institution' as a consequence of many years of
brainwashing mind control.  His existence is dependent
upon his loyalty to the institution.  Very sadly, Sarkey has
lost his humanity.  Sarkey is a slave.

Full article here. (http://www.zengardner.com/personal-alchemy-power-individuals-institutions/)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 13, 2015, 10:03:32 PM
Sarkey does what he does because he is considerably smarter than myself.
Yes.

Here I jerk off one of my favorite authors (http://www.zengardner.com/personal-alchemy-power-individuals-institutions/)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 14, 2015, 12:51:56 AM
Quote from: Sssssssss-ar-Keeeeeeee
Sarkey does what he does because he is considerably smarter...

So he says as he beats his chest and pats his back.

But, there seems to be a massive disconnect from reality there.
We look and we look as he posts his numerous ejaculations in
search of evidence, any evidence, that some intelligence resides
within his skull.

There has been none.  Not even a trace of miniscule evidence.
Sarkey is imprisoned within his institutional illusion.  Firmly
locked down in his straight-jacket within the Matrix.

Such a shame.



More distressing news from MIT (http://english.pravda.ru/news/science/13-03-2015/130031-autistic_children-0/):  Half the world's children will be
autistic in ten years.

Quote from: the Article
Researchers at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory made a shocking statement. According to them, a half of all children in the world will suffer from autism (http://english.pravda.ru/news/science/09-02-2007/87232-autism-0/) by 2025.
 
MIT Senior Researcher Stephanie Seneff said that the drastic rise in autism was largely thanks to Monsanto and the use of its own-brand of glyphosate (pesticide) known as Roundup Ready. Monsanto (http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/19-03-2012/120824-monsanto_genetics-0/) is a world leader in herbal biotechnology. The company produces genetically modified corn seeds, soybeans, cotton, as well as  the world's most widely spread herbicide, Pravda.Ru says.
 
According to researchers, the substance that is created when glyphosate is metabolized by plants and animals is highly toxic. The cytogenetic toxicity of the substance is 1,000 fold higher than that of its parent compound, scientists said. The substance is of selective action and is used to suppress annual and perennial weeds. It is recommended for use in vineyards, orchards, tea plantations, citrus plantations.

At the same time, Roundup contributes to the destruction of beneficial intestinal bacteria that are required for the proper functioning of the immune system. Another study conducted in 2014 showed that Roundup was 125 times more toxic (http://english.pravda.ru/business/companies/07-06-2013/124779-monsanto-0/) than glyphosate, Pravda.Ru reports.

Roundup is also linked to inflammation, cellular damage and an increased risk of multiple cancers. It is also been associated with a higher risk of Parkinson's and Alzheimer's diseases.

Autism is a neurodevelopmental disorder characterized by impaired social interaction, verbal and non-verbal communication, and restricted and repetitive behavior. The signs typically develop gradually, but some children with autism will reach their developmental milestones at a normal pace and then regress. Repetitively stacking or lining up objects is a behavior sometimes associated with individuals with autism.

Sarkey in his Canvas:
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on March 14, 2015, 02:16:56 AM
Huh? I thought the TRUTH was that autism is caused by vaccines and can be cured with bleach-enemas (http://www.vice.com/read/parents-are-giving-their-children-bleach-enemas-to-cure-them-of-autism-311)?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 14, 2015, 03:27:05 AM
Quote from: OrBut 3000
Huh? I thought the TRUTH was that autism is caused by vaccines and can be cured with bleach-enemas (http://www.vice.com/read/parents-are-giving-their-children-bleach-enemas-to-cure-them-of-autism-311)?

Vaccines and Glyphosate exposure to assure that the 'program'
reaches the maximum numbers of victims.

The numbers who've been fooled by that Institution Generated
dis-info is probably significant.  Additional research is needed
in cases such as this where potentially hazardous actions might
be contemplated.

The Institutions try to manage (manipulate) both sides of any
controversy by injecting disinformation into the discussion.

Yes, they use their resources to sponsor malicious and malevolent
diversions.

The Love of Money is a Terrible Disease.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 14, 2015, 05:30:49 AM
sarkeshill

First of all, after all of this debate, I don't see you as a "professional". Second, you cannot be an expert over everything!medical stuff lol.

Quote
Your body carries antibodies from viruses you have been exposed to.  Shedding from live vaccines is rare and happens for a limited time.  Again serology doesn't show viruses in you - just antibodies.

well well well, are you telling me that is my body gets a dangerous virus, it will leave my body FOR EVER with medicine as it never got in my body? lol.

I taken noticed to TV show "Monsters Inside Me" and they always say that the virus will live in the body for ever. The only reason the virus might die is because the immune system will over power it that it will become "stable" but the virus has tricks up it's sleeve. It is not the first time the immunity has tried to throw it out the body.

There are more examples and the 100% facts is that you don't know what is hiding inside the body. YOU! 100% don't know that viruses inside your body are fighting the immune system everyday of your life! now do you?

Like i mentioned, when you get a tattoo (foreign metals) the white blood cells will battle the ink for LIFE! you don't feel that but after decades, it has been understood.

Point being, HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW THE VIRUS DIES inside the body?

How do you know that the introduced virus did not mutate to be a different virus?

How do you know if that flu virus cannot mutate to be a deadlier virus?

Let me tell you, you don't! :P

Quote
Because when you do serology on someone you have too look for antibodies not viruses. :)  Even in people who are unvaccinated who have had diseases. :)  If the virus was active then it would continually be infecting tissue and replicating.  In which case your immune system would have to be pumping out antibodies for every virus you've ever encountered forever.  It's pretty easy to see why that doesn't happen.

AT the end of the day, you don't know what is hiding in the microscopic closets of the body. Heck! tell me right now, what "aliens" is your immune system trying to fight right now? Maybe you took your boogers out with a dirty finger and introduces many bacteria in your nose and you body immune system is trying to defend against it. HECK! the body is a defense barrier.

You can't know where the immune viruses defeated by the immune system  are hiding in the body! If you had chicken pox a decades ago, you could have a new virus today because YOU HAD CHICKEN POX. get it? You probably don't. :)

Quote
All organic matter discorporates after a while.

Shut your orangutan azs up. This does not prove that a virus does not leave the body once the immune system gets it under control!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 14, 2015, 06:10:54 AM
Lets watch an episode of monsters inside me to seek truth.

https://youtu.be/WnMocAh_y7A
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 14, 2015, 06:12:08 AM
OK, I have a question:

If the virus dies once your body has overcome it with antibodies, then why are they saying on the radio ads (public service) that if you had chicken pox as a child, part of that is dormant inside you and will cause shingles in adults over 60 in something like 50% of the cases?  Now they recommend an anti shingles vaccination.

I am just asking here as I thought this was weird.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 14, 2015, 06:31:35 AM
Quote
If the virus dies once your body has overcome it with antibodies, then why are they saying on the radio ads (public service) that if you had chicken pox as a child, part of that is dormant inside you and will cause shingles in adults over 60 in something like 50% of the cases?  Now they recommend an anti shingles vaccination.

Sarkchicken will answer that for you.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on March 14, 2015, 07:17:50 AM
OK, I have a question:

If the virus dies once your body has overcome it with antibodies, then why are they saying on the radio ads (public service) that if you had chicken pox as a child, part of that is dormant inside you and will cause shingles in adults over 60 in something like 50% of the cases?  Now they recommend an anti shingles vaccination.

I am just asking here as I thought this was weird.

Bill
It's indeed interesting.
 
The chicken pox virus seems to be a sneaky bastard. (source: Wikipedia)

I've read the two articles on smallpox and Herpes Zoster but why there is a need for a second vaccine (for shingles) does escape me.
Maybe further reading is required.


 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 14, 2015, 07:41:04 AM
OK, I have a question:

If the virus dies once your body has overcome it with antibodies, then why are they saying on the radio ads (public service) that if you had chicken pox as a child, part of that is dormant inside you and will cause shingles in adults over 60 in something like 50% of the cases?  Now they recommend an anti shingles vaccination.

I am just asking here as I thought this was weird.

Bill


"According to the new study; however, getting vaccinated with the chicken pox vaccine, which first became commercially available in the U.S. back in 1995, could damage this natural immune cycle. Based on the available data, getting vaccinated for chicken pox may end up blocking the mechanisms the body uses to develop its own natural immunity to both chicken pox and shingles, causing much worse infection later on down the road.

A five-year-old girl, it turns out, was found recently to have developed severe symptoms of shingles not long after being vaccinated for chicken (http://www.naturalnews.com/chicken.html) pox. Researchers from Helios Klinikum in Germany conducted a direct immunofluorescence assay on the child to look for evidence of the vaccine strain in the infection, and found that the vaccine strain had, indeed, caused the child to become infected with the much more severe shingles (http://www.naturalnews.com/shingles.html) virus.
http://www.naturalnews.com/038997_chicken_pox_vaccine_shingles_epidemic.html


Mags
[/color]
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 14, 2015, 10:09:43 AM
First of all, after all of this debate, I don't see you as a "professional".
So what happened to you being absolutely certain I'm a nurse. :)
Quote
Second, you cannot be an expert over everything!medical stuff lol.
I never said I was.  I just happen to know more than you do on a number of things.
Quote
well well well, are you telling me that is my body gets a dangerous virus, it will leave my body FOR EVER with medicine as it never got in my body? lol.
If you recall you were talking about a few (stupid things):

i) Primarily you were talking about shedding viruses after vaccination.  It's pretty difficult to shed something with much chance of infecting anyone if you're not making any.   Even infecting someone after being vaccinated with a live virus is pretty difficult.  VSV is found in stool for about six weeks after that it's undetectable by any methods we have today.

ii) Secondly you seemed to be pretending that you are constantly replicating viruses and your immune system is just barely keeping them under control.  Again if this was true for every virus you would be creating antibodies for every serotype you encounter for all time.  However again if what you say was true then someone who is immunocompromised would immediately get all their childhood diseases.  This doesn't happen.

Quote
Point being, HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW THE VIRUS DIES inside the body?
Serology samples.  If you've never seen one or know how "forensic" typing is done (i.e. what strain did person X have).  If you had you would know how difficult it is to see a virus in someones body after recovery.  Instead we look at antibodies.  Replication rate of a lot of viruses is high which is why you get sick so quickly after exposure.  If the virus was active in your body it would be easy to see.  A virus like the flu produces at a rate of about 10000 to 1.  This is why you get sick so quickly.  It only takes 3 "generations" before there are as many viruses as there are white blood cells.
Quote
How do you know that the introduced virus did not mutate to be a different virus?
It may have but the mutation - like most mutations - is well within the serotype.  If it wasn't you would still be sick or if you're talking about immunization you would get sick which never happens with inactivated vaccines and rarely happens with attenuated vaccines.
Quote
How do you know if that flu virus cannot mutate to be a deadlier virus?
It can but it's far more likely to happen from that one person who gets sick rather than billions of people immunized.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 14, 2015, 10:23:37 AM
If the virus dies once your body has overcome it with antibodies, then why are they saying on the radio ads (public service) that if you had chicken pox as a child, part of that is dormant inside you and will cause shingles in adults over 60 in something like 50% of the cases?  Now they recommend an anti shingles vaccination.

I am just asking here as I thought this was weird.
VSV is an interesting case.  So viruses that encounter antibodies get broken down, others will discorporate on their own (eventually).  The reason I believe you can get shingles is because the virus exists in the cytoplasm of infected cells *without* reaching the nucleus (this is how it works with HSV so as a sister disease it seems reasonable that VSV works the same way).  So the virus is not detected by antibodies (because it's in a cell) but it is also not replicating (so it's not mutating and you're not shedding it). 

The real question is why does it start to replicate again at all?  Often people say things like it comes back when your immune system is weak.  This is probably a little misleading.  While I can't say for absolute certain what seems more likely is the infection rate is just much slower when it's in nerve cells.  However every so often one of them "pops" and starts replicating.  This results in your antibodies cleaning those viruses up.   Over time you will lose the antibodies for the VSV serotype.  The next time one of these pop.  You get an infection and your body has to ramp up antibody production all over again because these cells have CNS related function.  The result is a more CNS related disease.

However this rate is probably glacially slow.  Again immunocompromized patients (e.g. chemo, AIDS) don't immediately get shingles (rates are higher though - someone with AIDS is about 10x more likely to get shingles).
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 14, 2015, 11:01:29 AM
"According to the new study; however, getting vaccinated with the chicken pox vaccine, which first became commercially available in the U.S. back in 1995, could damage this natural immune cycle. Based on the available data, getting vaccinated for chicken pox may end up blocking the mechanisms the body uses to develop its own natural immunity to both chicken pox and shingles, causing much worse infection later on down the road.
Goldman certainly was trying to raise a stir.  His study was done in 2008 - which means that he was dealing with data from the 90's when uptake was in the 25% range.  He also simply looked at crude rates which means it would have been hard to adjust for confounders and did not take disease severity into account.  Often vaccinations will result in a less sever reaction when there is a breakthrough infection.

There have been studies with better controls done in Germany (http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.4161/hv.34426?url_ver=Z39.88-2003&rfr_id=ori%3Arid%3Acrossref.org&rfr_dat=cr_pub%3Dpubmed&#.VQQCj454q4U) and Australia (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4147408/) 

Here they looked at hospitalization rates.  Which were the same or lower for older folks in populations where there was high coverage and confounders were controlled for.

But again....you could have done this research but why would you when you're completely uninterested in anything other than your own prejudical ideas.

I notice that you won't say what evidence will convince you that vaccines are safe and effective.  Kind of suspicious. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 14, 2015, 11:47:15 PM
VSV is an interesting case.  So viruses that encounter antibodies get broken down, others will discorporate on their own (eventually).  The reason I believe you can get shingles is because the virus exists in the cytoplasm of infected cells *without* reaching the nucleus (this is how it works with HSV so as a sister disease it seems reasonable that VSV works the same way).  So the virus is not detected by antibodies (because it's in a cell) but it is also not replicating (so it's not mutating and you're not shedding it). 

The real question is why does it start to replicate again at all?  Often people say things like it comes back when your immune system is weak.  This is probably a little misleading.  While I can't say for absolute certain what seems more likely is the infection rate is just much slower when it's in nerve cells.  However every so often one of them "pops" and starts replicating.  This results in your antibodies cleaning those viruses up.   Over time you will lose the antibodies for the VSV serotype.  The next time one of these pop.  You get an infection and your body has to ramp up antibody production all over again because these cells have CNS related function.  The result is a more CNS related disease.

However this rate is probably glacially slow.  Again immunocompromized patients (e.g. chemo, AIDS) don't immediately get shingles (rates are higher though - someone with AIDS is about 10x more likely to get shingles).

Well, that is very interesting.  I had no idea about this which is why I asked.  I wonder if there are other possible explanations?  I mean, i don't know.  I just keep hearing these public service announcements and I was thinking .....how could this be?  I wonder what the trigger point is?  Age?  Time in the body? (like a bomb's timing device) Or, exposure to someone that has shingles and, since your defense is down after 60, you "catch" it like a cold or flu?

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 15, 2015, 01:02:20 AM
I got a call from my aunt last night. She said she was on the phone with my mom, and my mom was having memory problems, like, "Where do I live?"  "what time is it" every 30 seconds. Seemingly sounding like she was having a stroke.  My step dad took her to the hospital. So far they find nothing wrong.

She is 70 yrs old.  I spoke to her at the hospital late last night and she sounded normal. She told me that her doc started doubling her dose of statin drugs for cholesterol last week.

She had a couple small episodes before, like not being able to operate the television remote, or the phone, not knowing what the buttons were. But this time it was bad.

So I looked up statin drugs on Naturalnews.com.

http://www.naturalnews.com/042535_statin_drugs_memory_impairment_cholesterol_medication.html


"If you take statin drugs for high cholesterol and suffer from frequent forgetfulness or amnesia, you could be a victim of statin-induced memory impairment. New research published in the open-access journal PLOS One reveals that pravastatin (Pravachol), a common statin drug used to reduce levels of low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol in the blood, impairs cognitive ability and memory recognition."


But according to DR Sark, the 'timing' of her being put on double doses 1 week ago couldnt possibly be that the statin drugs are the culprit.  ::) Simply coincidental. ;) ::)

FDA mandates new safety warnings for statin drugs due to risks of memory loss, diabetes and muscle pain
Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/035131_statin_drugs_safety_warnings_muscle_pain.html#ixzz3UPKjZizW (http://www.naturalnews.com/035131_statin_drugs_safety_warnings_muscle_pain.html#ixzz3UPKjZizW)


FDA admits statin drugs cause diabetes, memory loss
Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/035112_statin_drugs_diabetes_memory_loss.html#ixzz3UPL3NgI9 (http://www.naturalnews.com/035112_statin_drugs_diabetes_memory_loss.html#ixzz3UPL3NgI9)



Mags >:( [/color]
[/color]
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on March 15, 2015, 01:56:05 AM
Since you are fond of Natural News, has your mother been ingesting products advertised on their web site?  Has she been ingesting other "herbal" remedies?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 15, 2015, 02:27:19 AM
Since you are fond of Natural News, has your mother been ingesting products advertised on their web site?  Has she been ingesting other "herbal" remedies?

Of course the attacks will come. ::)

No, she doesnt even read the site let alone use a computer. 

Have I said that I used their products? ::) Not that I am discounting their products here.


Ive just been getting into being healthier in recent years. And I find most of what I get from NaturalNews.com very enlightening. ;)

But, I will let my mom know what the site suggests to do instead of continuing on with the statin drugs. ;) Lowering cholesterol intake is not rocket science. ::) And there are certain foods that help to keep cholesterol in check. But the people pushing the statin drugs see their 25 billion dollar biz as more important than teaching people to eat healthier, exercise, etc. ;)

Being healthy doesnt mean we have to pill our way there.  ;)   But you go ahead and pill away, if that is what you believe. ::)
 
Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 15, 2015, 02:45:18 AM
Since you are fond of Natural News, has your mother been ingesting products advertised on their web site?
What's interesting about the readers of Natural News is they never update their priors. 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 15, 2015, 04:45:13 AM
I wonder what the trigger point is?  Age?  Time in the body? (like a bomb's timing device) Or, exposure to someone that has shingles and, since your defense is down after 60, you "catch" it like a cold or flu?
The difference between chickenpox and shingles is the location of the infection.  If you encounter the VZV virus and have no VZV antibodies you would get chicken pox because the infected tissue will be in your lungs or mucosa.  People who have never encountered the virus will get chicken pox even in their 40's or 50's (it is more serious though - higher chance of neuralgia).  After having the infection you will inevitably have some viruses which have established themselves in the dorsal root ganglia which at some point "pop" (the proper word is "express") and if you no longer have antibodies (or your immune system is impared) cause shingles.

People who have been vaccinated against VZV - those who have never had chickenpox - are probably the absolute least likely to get shingles.  As their exposure to the virus is far smaller than someone who had it so it is less likely that they would have viruses in their basal root ganglia.  For us older folk - we are offered a booster shot to keep from losing our acquired immunity as quickly.

 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 15, 2015, 04:53:45 AM
Lets watch an episode of monsters inside me to seek truth.

https://youtu.be/WnMocAh_y7A
I just watched the first episode from season one.  It's a cute show but it's soooooo sloooooow moooooving.  Recaps upon recaps upon recaps and so little actual information.  Waaaay too much dramatic music.   Also are the sound bites chosen deliberately to make the people look stupid? I mean: "I never thought something so small could cause so much trouble".  Seriously?

Anyway it appears to be about parasites not viruses.  You realize that these are different things.  Right?

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 15, 2015, 04:56:02 AM
The Shingles are exceedingly painful.  My episode struck seven
years ago with a vengeance lasting for about seven months.
Still have some scars from the pustules with some loss of
sensation in the affected area.  Really nasty stuff!

It all began with a slight, itchy rash which in a matter of
days became very, very painful shingles.  You older folks
beware!  When you get an annoying itchy region in the
vicinity of your back and ribs get it checked immediately.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 15, 2015, 07:03:30 AM
Quote
Well, that is very interesting.  I had no idea about this which is why I asked.  I wonder if there are other possible explanations?  I mean, i don't know.  I just keep hearing these public service announcements and I was thinking .....how could this be?  I wonder what the trigger point is?  Age?  Time in the body? (like a bomb's timing device) Or, exposure to someone that has shingles and, since your defense is down after 60, you "catch" it like a cold or flu?

If you believe sarkeishill is speaking truth, ask him why do you get vaccinated with live viruses?

Also, ask him, why a lot of people are dying with viruses currently or even dying in a car crash. How is sarkchiken preventing any deaths? Maybe he is killing people slowly with his mentality.

If you believe that sarkchiken is giving you all satisfactory answers, why do you still have two jobs?

What is making you believe that sarkchicken is the super hero of medicine? = don't wonder further, sarkchikeck has all of the answers!

Make sarkchiken your permanent friend, and get back to me to see you a changed man. You will be the healthiest and most virus free person in the entire world just like sarkchiken is....but maybe sarkchiken has a deadly virus right now that he cannot fight with 300 pills a day.....ah well. lol

I personally believe that you have more brain power than that sarkchicken, you are just waiting for some one to tell you how smart you are and how stupid someone else is.

How do I know that?

At your age, you are still pondering life!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 15, 2015, 07:20:37 AM
Top 5 lies still being regurgitated by vaccine fanatics to push toxic immunizations
Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/049006_vaccine_lies_Big_Pharma_corporate_propaganda.html#ixzz3UQt4FqPD (http://www.naturalnews.com/049006_vaccine_lies_Big_Pharma_corporate_propaganda.html#ixzz3UQt4FqPD)
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1) Mercury isn't in vaccines. When "angry as hell" mom Jennifer Hibben-White posted her ignorant rant on Facebook (which was later picked up by CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/moms-angry-as-hell-facebook-post-about-measles-goes-viral/)) chastising parents for avoiding vaccines because of mercury, declaring that it's "not in their vaccine," she made a complete fool of herself among those who've done their homework.

Multi-dose vaccines like GlaxoSmithKline's FluLaval, Sanofi Pasteur's Fluzone, bioCSL's Afluria and Novartis' Fluvirin all still contain added thimerosal (http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/vaccines.htm#modalIdString_CDCTable_0), which the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention openly admits is still added to vaccines "to safeguard against possible contamination of the vial once it is opened (http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/thimerosal.htm)."

2) Herd immunity is required for vaccines to work. No matter what health authorities claim about so-called "herd immunity," there isn't a shred of credible evidence showing that it's a real thing. When it was first described and given a name, herd immunity was said to only be possible among those who contracted infections naturally (http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/02/18/the-deadly-impossibility-of-herd-immunity-through-vaccination-by-dr-russell-blaylock/).

As we recently pointed out (http://www.naturalnews.com/048519_vaccines_measles_virus_shedding.html), there have been repeated incidences of infectious disease outbreaks in populations that are 94% or more vaccinated, which is the official threshold for the supposed activation of herd immunity.

3) Vaccines are generally safe. This one is huge, and it's been disproven time and time again by both science (vaccine (http://www.naturalnews.com/vaccine.html) package inserts openly admit that vaccines cause a host of deadly health conditions) and whistleblowers like Dr. William Thompson from the CDC, who confessed last fall that his agency falsified data which, if honestly presented, clearly linked the MMR (measles, mumps and rubella) vaccine to autism (http://www.naturalnews.com/046630_CDC_whistleblower_public_confession_Dr_William_Thompson.html).

4) Vaccines are the only way to improve immunity. You would think, based on how the media talks about human health, that the only way to stay free of disease is to repeatedly inject yourself with needles containing aborted human fetal tissue and toxic chemicals. But nothing could be further from the truth, as the immune system thrives when accompanied by strong nutrition, restful sleep and various other healthy lifestyle habits.

The Harvard Medical School has a lot to say about this, offering a basic framework for how to build strong immunity naturally (http://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/how-to-boost-your-immune-system). And within these guidelines, the school also warns that the golden calf of vaccines is flawed, as they sometimes inhibit an appropriate immune system response to infection.

5) Vaccines are highly effective. They really aren't, and science proves this. A study published in the journal The Lancet found that flu vaccines are a total joke, conferring protection in only about 1 out of every 100 adults who get jabbed (http://www.naturalnews.com/033998_influenza_vaccines_effectiveness.html). More recently, the CDC confessed that this year's flu shot doesn't work (http://www.naturalnews.com/047955_flu_shot_CDC_vaccine_industry.html).

And again, as it concerns the MMR vaccine, two scientists from Merck & Co. revealed in a False Claims Act filing that the vaccine isn't 95% effective as claimed, and that it actually promotes outbreaks of both mumps and measles (http://www.naturalnews.com/048402_measles_vaccine_scientific_fraud_court_documents.html).

Sources:

http://www.cbsnews.com (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/moms-angry-as-hell-facebook-post-about-measles-goes-viral/)

http://www.naturalnews.com (http://www.naturalnews.com/045418_flu_shots_influenza_vaccines_mercury.html)

http://www.cdc.gov (http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/vaccines.htm#modalIdString_CDCTable_0)

http://www.cdc.gov (http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/thimerosal.htm)

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org (http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/02/18/the-deadly-impossibility-of-herd-immunity-through-vaccination-by-dr-russell-blaylock/)

http://www.naturalnews.com (http://www.naturalnews.com/048519_vaccines_measles_virus_shedding.html)

http://www.naturalnews.com (http://www.naturalnews.com/046630_CDC_whistleblower_public_confession_Dr_William_Thompson.html)

http://www.youtube.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9XRbjOQDvY)

http://www.health.harvard.edu (http://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/how-to-boost-your-immune-system)

http://www.naturalnews.com (http://www.naturalnews.com/033998_influenza_vaccines_effectiveness.html)

http://www.naturalnews.com (http://www.naturalnews.com/047955_flu_shot_CDC_vaccine_industry.html)

http://www.naturalnews.com (http://www.naturalnews.com/048402_measles_vaccine_scientific_fraud_court_documents.html)


Mags
[/color]
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 15, 2015, 02:20:26 PM
If you believe sarkeishill is speaking truth, ask him why do you get vaccinated with live viruses?
As I don't actually manufacture vaccines what I'll say is a little generalized but what you are trying to achieve with vaccination is seroconversion.   Effectively you want to be able to take a blood sample and see that the person has developed specific antibodies. 

To do that obviously you want the subject's body to *make* antibodies.  The more the better the resistance.  Obviously one of the factors controlling this would be how localized the infection is.   The more localized the fewer antibodies get created.  Another aspect would be how long the infection lasts for and a third generally are any ways that you can "trick" the body into mounting a greater immune response.

Attenuated vaccines - vaccines with a small number of functioning or partially functioning viruses in them - actually infect tissue and create more viruses (although millions of times less than getting sick) so the immune response is higher and of course this means it lasts longer.   An inactivated vaccine by contrast can only increase the number of viruses by injecting more viral tissue into you.  So that means larger volumes being injected.  Because viruses replicate very quickly and in large numbers there's a limit to how much inactivated material you can inject into someone before there's a law of diminishing returns with regard to the number of antibodies produced.  If you believe that that response is not sufficient to confer immunity then you would choose to introduce more at a later date.  This is what we call a "booster shot".

Finally the number of boosters can be reduced by doing something which causes more antibodies to be produced than the body would normally.  These are called adjuvants and they are things like squalene or aluminum salts and thiomersal.

So attenuated vaccines are often more effective at seroconversion than inactivated vaccines but this advantage is balanced against the ease in storing and transporting them.  There is no way to tell if an attenuated vaccine is still functioning just by looking at it.   That creates an increased chance of no or poor seroconversion.  Inactivated vaccines are also safer as they can be used by the immunocompromised.

Quote
Also.....life!
If you can rephrase any of that in intelligible English I'd be happy to respond.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: kEhYo77 on March 15, 2015, 03:14:02 PM
Once you introduce a virus to your body it is going to be there for life.
You have to remember, that bodies are a host to many parasites as well
and that viruses attack them as well making a nice hatch inside them, from which
they are multiplying and spreading. They are unreachable for the human antibodies
while inside a parasite! Now, even though your body has learned how to
keep a virus in check it will not eradicate its existence and will be fighting it
till the end of life, while the Big Pharma will try to give you more and more enemies
to fight with, making you weaker and weaker along the way.


Dr Robert Beck protocol / Dr Hulda Clark methods can help you there.


Peace.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 15, 2015, 07:16:41 PM
Now, even though your body has learned how to keep a virus in check it will not eradicate its existence and will be fighting it till the end of life,
Again Joel if true someone who is immunocompromised would immediately get every disease they ever had or was vaccinated for.  Which doesn't happen.  QED.
Quote
Dr Hulda Clark methods can help you there.
Because including people who didn't believe in the viral origin of AIDS is always a good idea. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 16, 2015, 05:38:47 PM
Mom is still in the hospital for further testing. So far, nothing wrong. ;)

Of course they would never blame the statins, even though the FDA gave out warnings on the drugs that they can cause memory loss and amnesia. ::)

Anyway, we are working on a plan for her to reduce her cholesterol with diet. ;D

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 16, 2015, 06:16:30 PM
The 'statins' are very bad news.  My wife had
the same reaction - severe loss of memory
and brain function.  No more of that kind of
so called 'medicine' for her and the recovery
has been phenomenal.

Finally found a Doc who understands nutrition,
the importance of Omega 3 fatty acids and
the straight scoop on 'cholesterol.'  She's
(the Doc that is) is from the Philippines.

Wishing your Mom well!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 16, 2015, 10:54:26 PM
But according to DR Sark, the 'timing' of her being put on double doses 1 week ago couldnt possibly be that the statin drugs are the culprit.  ::) Simply coincidental. ;) ::)
LOL this sounds like trolling more than anything else.  I mean would anyone other than someone who has little care for the lives of their parents ONLY consult Natural News?  Then take that advice without so much as even expending the insignificant amount of energy required to read the study they are making their claims from?   Probably not.

So in terms of evaluating this fantasy situation you need to look at the body of evidence.  There isn't much supporting statins correlated with memory loss.  You pointed to one murine study about memory loss (at 30-50x the dose normal people take) and I found one that actually shows improved memory.  The FDA appears to be making it's labeling decision on the basis of reports.  This is fine but statins are often prescribed to groups where you expect cognitive decline.  So there's an expectation of this kind of report.

Furthermore in the case of this made-up parental figure you've already stated that they have a history of cognitive decline.   There are lots of differentials here but it's a considerable stretch to point the finger at medication.   Especially before ruling out a lot of more likely and more deadly things.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 16, 2015, 10:57:37 PM
Thanks SeaMonkey  ;)

Its just another case of pill them up instead of trying to correct the real problem. ;)

I wouldnt be surprised if nursing home heads are endorsing and/or even investing into this type of drug. "yeah, shes losing it. Best to put her in a facility now." ::)   

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 16, 2015, 11:02:42 PM
LOL this sounds like trolling more than anything else.  I mean would anyone other than someone who has little care for the lives of their parents ONLY consult Natural News?  Then take that advice without so much as even expending the insignificant amount of energy required to read the study they are making their claims from?   Probably not.

So in terms of evaluating this fantasy situation you need to look at the body of evidence.  There isn't much supporting statins correlated with memory loss.  You pointed to one murine study about memory loss (at 30-50x the dose normal people take) and I found one that actually shows improved memory.  The FDA appears to be making it's labeling decision on the basis of reports.  This is fine but statins are often prescribed to groups where you expect cognitive decline.  So there's an expectation of this kind of report.

Furthermore in the case of this made-up parental figure you've already stated that they have a history of cognitive decline.   There are lots of differentials here but it's a considerable stretch to point the finger at medication.   Especially before ruling out a lot of more likely and more deadly things.

Again. More of "its most likely not the drug."  ::)   

What a loser you are. And you show it more each and every day. ;)

Mags

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 16, 2015, 11:22:57 PM
LOL this sounds like trolling more than anything else.  I mean would anyone other than someone who has little care for the lives of their parents ONLY consult Natural News?  Then take that advice without so much as even expending the insignificant amount of energy required to read the study they are making their claims from?   Probably not.

So in terms of evaluating this fantasy situation you need to look at the body of evidence.  There isn't much supporting statins correlated with memory loss.  You pointed to one murine study about memory loss (at 30-50x the dose normal people take) and I found one that actually shows improved memory.  The FDA appears to be making it's labeling decision on the basis of reports.  This is fine but statins are often prescribed to groups where you expect cognitive decline.  So there's an expectation of this kind of report.

Furthermore in the case of this made-up parental figure you've already stated that they have a history of cognitive decline.   There are lots of differentials here but it's a considerable stretch to point the finger at medication.   Especially before ruling out a lot of more likely and more deadly things.

In fact, I expected nothing more or less of you. ;)

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 17, 2015, 12:55:02 AM
Again. More of "its most likely not the drug."  ::)   
It's just math.  You have a hypothetical patient who is at risk of cognitive decline, with a history of cognitive decline and you want to blame a drug which is at best tenuously associated with cognitive decline BEFORE ruling out a good dozen things which are more likely?

Are you really that disinterested in the patents health?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: kEhYo77 on March 17, 2015, 06:14:14 PM
Dr. Robert Rowen Reveals the Raw Truth About Vaccines at the Vaccine World Summit (http://www.globalresearch.ca/dr-robert-rowen-reveals-the-raw-truth-about-vaccines-at-the-vaccine-world-summit/5436998)


Quote
Johns Hopkins University graduate Dr. Robert Rowen has been investigating the claims surrounding the “safety and effectiveness” of vaccines for many years, and his undeniable
conclusion is that vaccines don’t work and they aren’t safe. The measures by which the modern medical profession claims that vaccines are safe and effective don’t hold water,
he maintains, and are easily disproven.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 17, 2015, 09:08:27 PM
How the Love of Money has destroyed Journalism in the U.S. (http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/truth-is-our-country/)

Is one to believe that the Medical Industry and Professions in
the U.S. have not been destroyed by the same Love?

The Medical/Pharmaceutical Industry in the U.S. has lost its
way on account of the Love of Money.   Corruption and
deceit are rampant.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 17, 2015, 10:03:40 PM
Dr. Robert Rowen Reveals that he has no idea how to do epidemiology (http://www.globalresearch.ca/dr-robert-rowen-reveals-the-raw-truth-about-vaccines-at-the-vaccine-world-summit/5436998)
Seriously.  How many times do you have to see exceptionally broad correlations before you get bored?

So here we have a correlation that is by statistical measures IMMENSELY STRONGER than anything Dr. Rober Rowen has published....it's the correlation between per-capita-consumption of cheese and the number of people who died by getting tangled in bedsheets.  Clearly you should be FAR more concerned about this deadly CHEESE/BEDSHEET THREAT!!!!
http://www.tylervigen.com/correlation_project/correlation_images/per-capita-consumption-of-cheese-us_number-of-people-who-died-by-becoming-tangled-in-their-bedsheets.png

....or you could just learn to read.  Take a statistics course....
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 18, 2015, 02:43:44 AM
Seriously.  How many times do you have to see exceptionally broad correlations before you get bored?

So here we have a correlation that is by statistical measures IMMENSELY STRONGER than anything Dr. Rober Rowen has published....it's the correlation between per-capita-consumption of cheese and the number of people who died by getting tangled in bedsheets.  Clearly you should be FAR more concerned about this deadly CHEESE/BEDSHEET THREAT!!!!
http://www.tylervigen.com/correlation_project/correlation_images/per-capita-consumption-of-cheese-us_number-of-people-who-died-by-becoming-tangled-in-their-bedsheets.png (http://www.tylervigen.com/correlation_project/correlation_images/per-capita-consumption-of-cheese-us_number-of-people-who-died-by-becoming-tangled-in-their-bedsheets.png)

....or you could just learn to read.  Take a statistics course....

I heard on the radio today (seriously, I am not kidding) that everyone that has ever eaten carrots has died, or will die.  They said they have the statistics to prove this.  Of course, the same thing could be said about just about anything.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on March 18, 2015, 06:39:17 AM
I heard on the radio today (seriously, I am not kidding) that everyone that has ever eaten carrots has died, or will die.  They said they have the statistics to prove this.  Of course, the same thing could be said about just about anything.

Bill
Sir Trollalot has found himself a lapdog.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 18, 2015, 11:29:07 PM
I heard on the radio today (seriously, I am not kidding) that everyone that has ever eaten carrots has died, or will die.  They said they have the statistics to prove this.  Of course, the same thing could be said about just about anything.

Bill

That is not 'just' comedy.   ;)

Think. Who in their right mind from a radio station would come up with an idea like that to broadcast? ;)

Dont be open to 'suggestion'. I read a lot on hypnosis and power of 'suggestion' years ago. Suggestion is a well used word in hypnosis literature.


I drink at least, 1 52ox bottle of Bolthouse(non gmo  ;) ) carrot juice a week. 1 thing that it can provide relief from, most of the time within 60 sec is acid reflux. Been there, done that. The carrot juice is the only thing that produced great results, and helped alleviate the problem over time. Celery juice is the next step to repairing your digestive system. Lemon juice helps reduce bad bacteria while helping the good bacteria.

The celery juice is hard to (literally) swallow. It is strong. Glasses and blenders need a triple cleansing to rid it of the smell. But, in stores in many places, for $1.45 a day, you can correct many issues with the digestive system.

So back the the post. What sort of companies would pay a radio station to put out such suggestions? ;) ;) ;) And trust me. Its in the schools, its everywhere.

So the safe way to be is, ALWAYS QUESTION EVERYTHING.  ;) ;) ;) ;) Otherwise, we might be being duped, especially from the people, companies and gov. we are suppose to trust.

Just today, an article about Opra. She has been a supposed staple in the eat organic( has here own organic farm in Hawaii) and for GMO labeling. But, in her magazine publication, there are now ads by Monsanto. Hmm.  Odd dont you think?  Big money can buy the ability to put out the power of suggestion out there in big ways. If you 'really' looked into the school systems and how they are indoctrinating these kids into things we would rather not have them learn, you would be shocked.


Anyway, I say that was a big 'suggestive' slam against carrots in that broadcast. Probably right after that they have a commercial about if your on Lipitor, you may be entitled to a class action law suit settlement. ::) lol.

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 19, 2015, 12:54:05 AM
Think. Who in their right mind from a radio station would come up with an idea like that to broadcast? ;)
Probably anyone who sees the ridiculousness of some of the nonsense you peddle.
Quote
Dont be open to 'suggestion'. I read a lot on hypnosis and power of 'suggestion' years ago. Suggestion is a well used word in hypnosis literature.
From a person who uncritically swallows things from Natural News you are easily the most suggestible person here. :)
Quote
So the safe way to be is, ALWAYS QUESTION EVERYTHING.
ROFL because you always question Natural News....oh wait. :)

So you still posting made-up problems about statins?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 19, 2015, 01:56:56 AM

So you still posting made-up problems about statins?

http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm293330.htm (http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm293330.htm)

"Cognitive (brain-related) impairment, such as memory loss, forgetfulness and confusion, has been reported by some statin users."

Make that up? Na. Got it from FDA.GOV in the link above.  So you better get over there and tell them their wrong. ::)

Oh, but that doesnt count either. Any info that we may find is just junk to you.

So who do we believe on this one. You or the Gov?   Well you get the big prize for being less believable than the govt. ;)

So far, I dont think you could even sell cinnamon tooth picks. ;D

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 19, 2015, 02:19:52 AM
http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm293330.htm (http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm293330.htm)

"Cognitive (brain-related) impairment, such as memory loss, forgetfulness and confusion, has been reported by some statin users."

Make that up?
I'm talking about your made-up patient reports. I already addressed what the FDA is communicating. 

...anyway you can keep on with your trolling. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 19, 2015, 02:21:39 AM
Sir Trollalot has found himself a lapdog.

I do not understand your post.  Were you talking to me?

Please try to make sense and direct your comments to the right folks.

Thanks,

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 19, 2015, 02:31:49 AM

That is not 'just' comedy.   ;)

Think. Who in their right mind from a radio station would come up with an idea like that to broadcast? ;)

Dont be open to 'suggestion'. I read a lot on hypnosis and power of 'suggestion' years ago. Suggestion is a well used word in hypnosis literature.


Mags

It was not comedy.  Rush was reading a real report to illustrate the point that, while this is totally true and can not be disputed, the link to death and eating carrots could not be proven.  His point was that you could present anything in this manner and have it be true...be it eggs, ketchup, beer, water, etc.

Everyone that has ever had a drink of water is dead, or going to die.  While totally true, it is absurd to assume that drinking the water has any connection with the death of these folks.  He was showing how you can abuse statistics to scare and shock people into believing some link that does not exist. 

Like they have done with eating eggs...first they were bad, then good again...20 years later...bad again...and now...they are good for you.  Same eggs, just being presented by different folks.

That was my point.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on March 19, 2015, 02:45:05 AM
“Explaining a joke is like dissecting a frog. You understand it better but the frog dies in the process.”

-Nicolas Elon Tesla
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 20, 2015, 05:29:17 AM
Here is yet another example that relates to medicine. Which is they don't know what is really going on as they propose that the medicine proponents believe they know. This is another example upon the thousands of others.

Just ask where are the 100% statistical facts that vaccines are 100% safe and effective?

A while back sarkeizen mentioned something about that they know they work because of the masses. Hmmm....that is why everything that comes out of his mouth is only wishful thinking.

So now imagine this information relating to medicine. We have been using light since decades ago and all of a sudden someone decides to look at it closer and finds out that it harms the physical functioning.

Now just imagine if someone starts doing studies about how medicine side effects are worse than the cure in the long run? Since there are no real studies being done to show the long term ill effects, you just have to turn a blind eye and just look at all the masses and come out with a conclusion from there = nobody dropped dead right there and then.

At any rate, here the link.

http://www.wired.com/2015/03/artificial-light-may-be-unhealthy/

Like I already mentioned, your kid may be diagnose with ADD, OCD, and that will get blamed by genetic (being born with) but in reality it comes from the TV/games/commercials.

I have played games off line games and have enjoyed them in my free time BUT I have also played on line games in my free time. The online games will make you go insane. Why, because GREED. It is pretty simple. It is play-for-free, pay-to-win. And then you have those online gamers praying on the “newbies”...that will make a kid go insane in a short while. Just one single example that I know for a fact in online BF4 when someone can rent a server. The administrator can change some setting so their team will win = admin abuse. This is 100% facts that I know of = virtual type of gaming bullying and discriminating = young players personality disorders to the point that some cry...i've seen it on ustream.tv.

At any rate, from looking at every different angle, a vaccine is not a miracle drug and more regulating needs to be done before they make it mandatory = cash cow = more corruption.

Corruption corrupts absolutely even those that don't want to corrupt anyone, it is only that GREED uses psychology to control the minds of the masses to turn a blind eye of the truth. Sark won't be able to look at the other side of the coin because his understanding of medicine brings food to his table, but that is only thinking about his prosperity and from one angle and not looking at the whole picture. SO he will be bias for the rest of his career, PLAIN AND SIMPLE!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 20, 2015, 02:56:19 PM
Just ask where are the 100% statistical facts that vaccines are 100% safe and effective?
Strawman.  Nobody is arguing that vaccines have no risks or no chance of failure.
Quote
A while back sarkeizen mentioned something about that they know they work because of the masses.
As I've never said "because of the masses" you are kind of making things up.   One of the strong evidences of vaccine effectiveness is seroconversion.  If seroconversion doesn't correlate strongly with immunity then you effectively have to make up an entirely different immune system model.

Quote
http://www.wired.com/2015/03/artificial-light-may-be-unhealthy/
Did you read the paper? Nope.
Would you understand it if you did?  Nope.
Are you qualified to talk about this then?.....Nope.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 20, 2015, 08:53:34 PM
For those who may be wondering how it is that
Sarkey is perpetually embracing the MATRIX (http://www.thedailybell.com/editorials/36172/Nelson-Hultberg-Moral-Disorder/?uuid=6F808B25-5056-9627-3C1C0B7DA4C0C1D3)
and all that it represents.

Sarkey and his brethren who are stuck there
cannot do otherwise.  They must be pitied.
 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 20, 2015, 09:05:37 PM
Poorly scripted nonsense by someone who thinks making a point is optional (http://www.thedailybell.com/editorials/36172/Nelson-Hultberg-Moral-Disorder/?uuid=6F808B25-5056-9627-3C1C0B7DA4C0C1D3)
I'm not sure I'm embracing anything however I do lean toward those positions which are have a high mathematical probability to be correct.  The alternative seems to be buying into the stuff you post which you pretty much admit  is weak and poorly supported.  I'm guess I'm just not interested in believing something which math guarantees is more likely to make you stupid rather than smart. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 20, 2015, 11:12:52 PM
Mags  ;)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 21, 2015, 01:01:33 AM
Mags  ;)
Thankfully "How to Be a Site Like Natural News" is much less complicated.

1) Make shit up.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 21, 2015, 02:54:56 AM
Thankfully "How to Be a Site Like Natural News" is much less complicated.

1) Make shit up.

We need to deal with facts here people, not wild fantasies.  Some folks hate statistics because their position can be easily proven wrong by them.  The numbers do not lie.

That thing I posted about the carrots is really a good example.  It is totally 100% true, however, if you stopped eating carrots because of it, then you did not understand the numbers.

I can state it another way.....

Everyone that has ever breathed air has died, or will die sometime in the future.

See?  That is totally true.  Do you really want to stop breathing air based upon this?  We have to think for ourselves and, to do that, we need GOOD information to make GOOD decisions.

Now, no one has ever heard a fish vendor yelling "Bad fish!"  So, if I see a study done by a drug company...I am inclined not to believe it on its face.  Conversely, if I see some "facts" posted on a website called "Drug companies are really bad and they are killing us.com" I am also going to be dubious.

We have to be educated and intelligent about how we make our own decisions here.

That is all I am trying to say.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 21, 2015, 04:28:40 AM
Pirate, the beauty about learning from experience is that you don't have to ask anyone else what to believe. You don't even have to google it. You don't even have to think that hard about it. When you have been figuring out things from very little that make you live longer than a dodo bird, your unconscious mind basically takes over. It is a part of the brain that thinks automatically and that side is the most conclusive regarding endurance of life.

When you go in the restroom, most likely then not, your unconscious mind will want to take a piss, dump, brush teeth, take a shower, etc. This is the unconscious mind thinking for you. It is not your 'present' mind thinking for you, but the permanent mind which you don't control.

Now, from all of that, I personally can see that you pirate is trying to learn and be open minded to an extend, by the same token, I can see that sarkeizen just feels 'obligated' to defend his 'point' of view at all cost! He believes that his point of view is 100% facts and the end of learning. While that is none-sense. Which kind of puts him on the side of the loony bin mentality lol.

Quote
Everyone that has ever breathed air has died, or will die sometime in the future.

Having said that, I do believe in medicine because it is stupid not to believe in it. Air, sun, hearing, touching, are all PREVENTATIVE measures that mother nature has given us.

Air – sniff sniff, I smell fire\my lungs need air.

Sun -- I see a gun pointed at my face\my cells need vitamin D. (and shit load of other things from the sun)

Hearing – I hear gun fire\I hear a baby cry.

Touching – ouch, touching fire hurts\how come I don't squeeze an egg with my hand every time i pick one up.

All of them are preventative measures to survive. This are based upon billions of years of evolution.

So, I do believe in 'medicine' because, just as one person can put a heat sink on a motor to help it cool, one can put a “heat sink” on a person to help it cool down. Like if a person is dying and can't breathe by itself, ok let me artificially help the person breathe to give the immunity a chance to beat the problems.

With out getting further in to how medicine works, it's all just a mater of helping the body to fight the war. Is not that the medicine is down all of the work. The medicine is like a pond for the king and queen. The medicine is not a king nor a queen in the chess board...

Look at poor sarkeizen, believing in the all mighty drugs for survival?

He probably takes 30 pills a day?

Look at any LABELED “sick” person how many pills they take a day?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 21, 2015, 05:13:41 AM
We need to deal with facts here people, not wild fantasies.  Some folks hate statistics because their position can be easily proven wrong by them.  The numbers do not lie.

That thing I posted about the carrots is really a good example.  It is totally 100% true, however, if you stopped eating carrots because of it, then you did not understand the numbers.

I can state it another way.....

Everyone that has ever breathed air has died, or will die sometime in the future.

See?  That is totally true.  Do you really want to stop breathing air based upon this?  We have to think for ourselves and, to do that, we need GOOD information to make GOOD decisions.

Now, no one has ever heard a fish vendor yelling "Bad fish!"  So, if I see a study done by a drug company...I am inclined not to believe it on its face.  Conversely, if I see some "facts" posted on a website called "Drug companies are really bad and they are killing us.com" I am also going to be dubious.

We have to be educated and intelligent about how we make our own decisions here.

That is all I am trying to say.

Bill

I hope you were not offended by my reply about the carrots earlier.

In ordinary advertizing there is an incredible amount of money spent on it. Because most of the time, it helps business. And a lot of that advertizing goes through one ear and out the other(consciously) for many people, but for a lot of them something sticks and becomes something that they know by way of it playing every 15min on a radio or tv channel and maybe a catchy jingle.

So lets say that the radio station played that carrot story just 1 time.  How many people that heard it may have not fully gotten the jist of it, or just heard it without full concentration. there is a possibility that some people are walking around saying the heard that if you eat carrot you will die. For some, the 'eventually' part may not sink in as a sarcastic remark and take the whole saying as if, well, its probably not good to eat carrots. Whether it was just a parody, joke or sarcasm, the whole suggestion of eating carrots and you will eventually die is not a positive thing to hear in the subconscious. The brain is weird like that. Say a negative thing enough, no matter the context, and that negative thing will stick. ;)

I read a few articles where people have cured their own cancer with carrots. One article said a woman with stage 4 cancer did a regimen of 3 pounds of organic carrots into juice per day, and cured her. The big problem with healthcare in the big picture is that they dont embrace a good diet for the patients. My mom was told the other day not to skip any meds and 'dont change your diet' ???

"Yes Mrs Luvin, just stay on course, and dont forget to keep using 2 sticks of butter in your daily meals. Eat what you want. The Lipitor will take care of everything." ::)



Here is a good one that I just found that seems to be working for a problem i have had for several months. My Achilles tendon has been hurting in both legs, the left one the most .  4 days ago, I had made myself some organic bowtie pasta and 1/3 jar of Ragu extra chunky mushroom. I had not made it in a while. I woke up 3 days ago with some pain but less for sure. Then by the end of the day, nada. When I went to sleep, the tendons were not burning like fire as they had before. The next day, yesterday, I was great all day. No pasta n sauce the yesterday or the day before every night. But last night, early evening, some pain, some burning before sleep, but not like before. So I did a larger serving later in the evening. Today, I feel great. Tendons are a little tight because I wasnt working them hard due to pain. But I sit here now and I feel nothing. ;D Tomatos when cooked make some vitamins more available than raw.

So what Im going to do is eat the pasta n ragu every other day for a few days and see if the effects last, and if they do, I will stop for some days to see if pain comes back.

If anyone has this tendon problem, it causes pain in the arch, the heal and lower rear calf, and you are not alergic to pasta or ragu extra chunky, give it a go and see if it works for you.

My thyroid lump has been gone for nearly 1 year now and It was selenium supplements that helped, where I did similar tests, but over weeks as it took about 1 1/2 months to subside in the beginning. Took 2 weeks off the selenium and the lump grew again. Just some. Back on the selenium and gone. lately I can go for a few weeks of of the selenium and no lump. Had that thing for about 8 years. Byby little lump bout the size of half a peach. Byby. Some months lather NN posted an article about thyroid and selenium. Also was in womans health mag on the shelf in the grocery store by the checkout a few months ago. I had found it by accident. The bottle claimed good for prostate prevention. Be 50 this year so I figured the prostate I would like to keep. ;) NN.com says also Nascent Iodine can help also. Havnt needed to try though. So.  ;)

So far, several other people that I know, the selenium helped them also. 1 person it didnt help. But the selenium didnt hurt them when they tried it.

Back and knee pain along with arthritis in my hands. Hard to put underwear and socks on, use a pair of pliers or kneel down to work on a car.  About 2 months of raw milk and all three disipated at the same time. A friend had been telling me what it did for him for 2 years before I tried it. I drink 1 gal a week now.


NN.com had a story about sodium benzote. A preservative. Found in most soft drinks, chinese takout soy sauce,and the duck sauce. They put it in a lot of foods. Well if you are a health conscious person, sodium benzote when mixed with vitamin C produces benzene. Not good for you at all. Look it up.

These companies dont care. Food co. Drug Co. EPA. FDA, they dont care. We have to work and do research to find out how not to poison ourselves and re find the stuff that is truely good for us. All of the little bits of these bad things add up over time.

On another health concern....
Ever keep up on the nuke plant meltdown in Japan?  It definitely isnt getting any better. Coverup of the century. NN.com just did a review of a portable radiation detector. Ebay has them in several sorts and capabilities.

Bah, It 'all' just sucks for all of us. So use due diligence and help yourself help you, and others. ;)

Wasnt planning on all that writing. Had things to do. But I did anyway. ;D

Mags

Mags


 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 21, 2015, 05:16:31 AM
He probably takes 30 pills a day?
If the evidence for 30 pills a day was strongly in line with my desired outcomes.   Why wouldn't I?  Or why wouldn't anyone? 

So far I'm not chronically sick so I don't take any medications regularly.  However when the doc prescribes them - such as antibiotics after having some dental work done.  I happily took them.  I skipped the 600mg of Ibuprophen - analgesia has a pretty wide amount of variability and I find I rarely need it.
Quote
Look at any LABELED “sick” person how many pills they take a day?
A pretty small amount.  Only 6.5% of Americans are taking more than 4 prescription drugs.  Compare that to the NPH intake in Canada where something like 43% are taking about 2-3.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 21, 2015, 06:13:26 AM
Mags:

No worries.  I had no problem with your reply at all.  I too like carrots, and carrot juice.

Rush just happened to use carrots in his example, but as you see, you can use anything, including air for this example.  I do agree that some folks partially listening will go away thinking there is something wrong with carrots.  This is how disinformation gets started.  Someone misunderstands something said by someone else and...so on...and so on.

I actually tried the air thing on a guy at work and he said it was not true.  But, it is.  He did not get it.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 21, 2015, 02:51:29 PM
I read a few articles where people have cured their own cancer with carrots. One article said a woman with stage 4 cancer did a regimen of 3 pounds of organic carrots into juice per day, and cured her. The big problem with healthcare in the big picture is that they dont embrace a good diet for the patients.
The big problem with people who say things like "3 pounds of carrots cured my cancer" is that it's probably not even the tiniest bit correct.  Statistically people today who have cancer try radical changes to their lifestyle again statistically cancer can self-resolve.  The most likely outcome of any self-resolving cancer (today anyway) is someone who will claim that it was the result of something they did.  Another group are those who have a cancer where some of the symptoms regress temporarily.  Again they try radical lifestyle changes and when regression happens it's all because of Kumkwats or Selenium or shoving coffee up their ass.  Jess Ainscough who I mentioned earlier had this exact effect with her epithelioid sarcoma.  She thought she was getting better and then she died at age 29 when amputation would have had her living until she was 80.

Killed, in part by people like yourself.  Congratulations?

Anyway it's interesting that you swallow diagnoses from people who have no reason to make a diagnosis but completely reject those who do.  Again this is why I expect you're a troll.
Quote
My made-up mom-patient was told the other day not to skip any meds and 'dont change your diet' ???
Dietary control of cholesterol is actually something of a controversy medically speaking.  So in real life this isn't all that far fetched.  However more generally your made-up situation is not true.  Most docs do council about lifestyle.  Most patients don't want to hear it. :)

Quote
So what Im going to do is eat the pasta n ragu every other day for a few days and see if the effects last, and if they do, I will stop for some days to see if pain comes back.
How would you calculate the odds of your diagnosis being correct?  Whoops.  You don't know do you. :)

Quote
We have to work and do research
So let me see if I understand you.  According to you a "researcher" can go out look up all the studies that confirm a hypothesis.  Ignore anything that says otherwise and deliberately avoid looking for that information...and that would be, in your opinion "research". :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 21, 2015, 04:08:54 PM
The big problem with people who say things like "3 pounds of carrots cured my cancer" is that it's probably not even the tiniest bit correct.  Statistically people today who have cancer try radical changes to their lifestyle again statistically cancer can self-resolve.  The most likely outcome of any self-resolving cancer (today anyway) is someone who will claim that it was the result of something they did.  Another group are those who have a cancer where some of the symptoms regress temporarily.  Again they try radical lifestyle changes and when regression happens it's all because of Kumkwats or Selenium or shoving coffee up their ass.  Jess Ainscough who I mentioned earlier had this exact effect with her epithelioid sarcoma.  She thought she was getting better and then she died at age 29 when amputation would have had her living until she was 80.

Killed, in part by people like yourself.  Congratulations?

Anyway it's interesting that you swallow diagnoses from people who have no reason to make a diagnosis but completely reject those who do.  Again this is why I expect you're a troll.Dietary control of cholesterol is actually something of a controversy medically speaking.  So in real life this isn't all that far fetched.  However more generally your made-up situation is not true.  Most docs do council about lifestyle.  Most patients don't want to hear it. :)
How would you calculate the odds of your diagnosis being correct?  Whoops.  You don't know do you. :)
So let me see if I understand you.  According to you a "researcher" can go out look up all the studies that confirm a hypothesis.  Ignore anything that says otherwise and deliberately avoid looking for that information...and that would be, in your opinion "research". :)

"However more generally your made-up situation is not true."

Made up. ::)


Water and pills folks. Thats all you need for a healthy life, just as God intended. ::)

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 21, 2015, 04:29:50 PM
"However more generally your made-up situation is not true."

Made up. ::)
Yep.  Unless you're telling me that you would consider someones life so utterly inconsequential that you would take the advice of natural news without consulting any actual research papers.  Seriously, it's a fine troll but call it what it is.  Just something you made up. :)
Quote
Water and pills folks. Thats all you need for a healthy life, just as God intended.
Yawn.  Strawman.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 21, 2015, 11:43:13 PM
Quote from: Sar-keeeeee-Zzzzzzzz
Thankfully "How to Be a Site Like Natural News" is much less complicated.

1) Make shit up.

Many thanks Sarkey!  Another candid admission of the way
you carry on your agenda of disinfo.

Isn't it amazing how Truth enters into the work of those who
oppose it?  Try as they might they just cannot defeat it...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 22, 2015, 02:13:42 AM
Many thanks Sarkey!  Another candid admission of the way you carry on your agenda of disinfo.
You don't think Natural News just makes things up?

So you prefer the theory that they are the mental equivalent of a sack of hammers?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on March 22, 2015, 02:59:59 AM
So you prefer the theory that they are the mental equivalent of a sack of hammers?
Insults won't help you Trollalot.
I don't agree with all that Mike says but he is right for the most part.
You must grow a heart and do the right thing,...speak truth.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 22, 2015, 03:49:15 AM
I don't agree with all that Mike says but he is right for the most part.
Seriously?  Did you actually READ any of the posts from NN that have been posted here?  Your Health Ranger could easily be replaced by a houseplant.

http://www.naturalnews.com/048871_flu_shots_vaccine_paradox_immune_system.html#ixzz3TX4Ts18X

Please say you AGREE with that.  That it's REALLY GOOD STRONG EVIDENCE.  Please. Please. Please. Please. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 22, 2015, 05:33:28 AM
Quote
Nobody is arguing that vaccines have no risks or no chance of failure.

Well now we are getting somewhere. What are those statistics of failure?

And how long are the studies done of failure?

Quote
As I've never said "because of the masses" you are kind of making things up.   One of the strong evidences of vaccine effectiveness is seroconversion.  If seroconversion doesn't correlate strongly with immunity then you effectively have to make up an entirely different immune system model.

Yes you did say that because the masses are not dying, then it must be safe. And that is the premise of my argument till right now. How in the world can you know the vaccine is safe over the long run? You are only focusing on the injection after a few weeks...you are not focusing after the injection over the long run. Are you?

There is no way in hell you are able to know this and by this time, you are just a clown to me...lol. Karma is a bytch though.

Quote
Did you read the paper? Nope.
Would you understand it if you did?  Nope.
Are you qualified to talk about this then?.....Nope.

LOL, look at this clown believing that he is an expert at everything one throws at him. Now he is an expert in light waves. Lol, what a clown.

And not only that, he is a fortune teller too. Based on his “nope!”. This guy must be a pain in the but to live with....one of those know-it-alls controlling individuals in society. That guy that runs naked in the middle of a football game. lol
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 22, 2015, 05:42:49 AM


That guy that runs naked in the middle of a football game. lol



Hey, I was that guy.  The following day I got laid by the captain of the cheerleader squad.  (She was also Homecoming Queen)  She said it was cute me running across the field like that naked.  So, do not underestimate the power of doing this.

Bill

PS  No JB Weld was used nor needed for any of the above activities.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 22, 2015, 05:45:18 AM
Quote
If the evidence for 30 pills a day was strongly in line with my desired outcomes.   Why wouldn't I?  Or why wouldn't anyone?

You are not taking enough bro. lol
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 22, 2015, 05:48:59 AM
You are not taking enough bro. lol

That is not very many pills.  Hell, I take more vitamins than that every day.  It is my health plan.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 22, 2015, 05:56:50 AM
Quote
Hey, I was that guy.  The following day I got laid by the captain of the cheerleader squad.

What mainstream movie did you steal this from? lol
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 22, 2015, 06:12:36 AM
What mainstream movie did you steal this from? lol

It is called:  "My life, and welcome to it."  Seriously, it is my life.  Ah, I miss those days.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 22, 2015, 06:23:59 AM
Well now we are getting somewhere.
Dude.  Seriously?  Every time I clearly and unambiguously say words to the effect that vaccines are not 100% risk free.  You act surprised.  How often do you want to keep repeating the same act?
Quote
What are those statistics of failure? And how long are the studies done of failure?
Please use English phrases because I have no idea what "statistics of failure" means.
Quote
Yes you did say that because the masses
Please cite where I use those EXACT words.  Otherwise please reference what words of mine you're referring to and I'll tell you what I meant. :)
Quote
How in the world can you know the vaccine is safe over the long run?
It depends on what "know", "safe" and "long run' mean.  Let me know when you actually understand what you're saying. :)
Quote
LOL, look at this clown believing that he is an expert at everything
Uh that's you actually.  You're the one who always says things are 100% facts.  That's what someone who pretends they're an expert would say.  I don't.  The only thing I'm claiming is that I have better knowledge about ID than you do and I know somewhere between 10x and 100000000000000000000000000x more about how to read a research paper or study than you do.  Two things you repeatedly fail at.

After all you are the person who didn't read the paper but felt ok writing completely ignorant nonsense.  I did read the paper and it's weak at best.  There are a couple of studies about the same subject which are better (because unlike you I know that this subject is somewhat in vogue) but still far from good.
Quote
That guy that runs naked in the middle of a football game. lol
Joel please stop picturing me naked.  Go back to flirting with profits.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 22, 2015, 10:35:00 PM
Big Pharma used "statistical deception" to sell deadly statin scam to Americans, study concludes

Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/049079_statins_statistical_deception_Big_Pharma.html#ixzz3V9W5mcDm (http://www.naturalnews.com/049079_statins_statistical_deception_Big_Pharma.html#ixzz3V9W5mcDm)


(NaturalNews) Statins are a deadly scam, and new research published in the journal Expert Review of Clinical Pharmacology undoubtedly proves this. Using "statistical deception" to make statins appear safe and effective, the drug industry has deviously sold the United States and other Western nations a bill of goods, say researchers, as actual data shows that statins provide almost no benefits while causing serious harm.

Dr. David M. Diamond, a professor of psychology, molecular pharmacology and physiology at the University of South Florida, and Dr. Uffe Ravnskov, an independent health researcher and expert in cholesterol and cardiovascular disease, teamed up to a take a closer look at the claims made about statins. After reviewing a cohort of published studies on statins, they concluded that statistical trickery is responsible for their ill-gained notoriety.

"Statin advocates have used statistical deception to create the illusion that statins are 'wonder drugs,' when the reality is that their modest benefits are more than offset by their adverse effects," wrote the authors in their paper.

Lying drug companies use "relative risk" data to create illusion that statins are safe and effective When poring through the data, the two doctors found that nearly every drug-industry-backed study claiming that statins are safe and effective used "relative risk" data rather than "absolute risk" data. This deceptive tactic is often employed to make drug treatments appear more effective than they actually are, as well as to cover up any adverse effects associated with drug interventions.

By comparing the treatment outcome of one specific group of people to another specific group (relative risk (http://www.naturalnews.com/risk.html)), rather than evaluating how each individual responds to a particular treatment over time irrespective of all others (absolute risk), drug companies deceitfully veil the ineffectiveness of pharmaceuticals and their respective risks from the public.

This is how statin researchers are able to claim that statins (http://www.naturalnews.com/statins.html) benefit 30-50% of the population (relative risk) rather than 1% or less of the population (absolute risk).

"In the Jupiter trial, the public and healthcare workers were informed of a 54 percent reduction in heart attacks, when the actual effect in reduction of coronary events was less than 1 percentage point," wrote the authors concerning a major trial that evaluated Crestor.

"In the ASCOT-LLA study (http://www.naturalnews.com/study.html), which was terminated early because it was considered to have such outstanding results, there were heart attacks and deaths in 3% of the placebo (no treatment) group as compared to 1.9% in the Lipitor group."

"The improvement in outcome with Lipitor treatment was only 1.1 percentage point, but when this study was presented to the public, the advertisements used the inflated (relative risk) statistic, which transformed the 1.1% effect into a 36% reduction in heart attack risk."

Cholesterol changes brought about by statin use lead to cancer Meanwhile, ending statin trials early under the guise of prudence -- most drug industry-pioneered statin studies are terminated within two to five years -- conveniently hides the fact that statins come with major health risks. One of these risks is cancer, as demonstrated by at least one long-term trial which showed a dramatic increase in breast cancer rates among women who took statins for 10 years or longer.

In fact, using statins to artificially lower cholesterol levels, as millions of Americans and others do daily, appears to be directly associated with cancer incidence -- statins clearly cause cancer! But you'll be strained to find this information anywhere in the industry literature, which is so mendaciously formulated as to make statins appear like a miracle drug rather than a lethal ruse.

"The adverse effects suffered by people taking statins are more common than reported in the media and at medical conferences," conclude the authors. "Increased rates of cancer, cataracts, diabetes, cognitive impairments and musculoskeletal disorders more than offset the modest cardiovascular benefits of statin treatment."

Medical journals starting to force drug companies to release all records of adverse events Much of the problem lies with medical journals, which are largely reluctant to demand that industry-backed studies present all their data on adverse events, including absolute risk data. But several major journals, including the British Medical Journal (The BMJ), are attempting to change this.

The BMJ's editor-in-chief, Fiona Godlee, and the chair of Britain's Commons Health Select Committee, Sarah Wollaston, have both called on drug companies to release all of their records involving undisclosed adverse events of statins in their clinical trials. At the same time, doctors like Diamond and Ravnskov are calling on people to take other practical steps to avoid heart disease, including avoiding excess carbohydrates and sugar.

"There is a great appeal to the public to take a pill that offers the promise of a longer life and to live heart attack free," wrote the duo. "The reality, however, is that statins actually produce only small beneficial effects on cardiovascular outcomes, and their adverse effects are far more substantial than is generally known."

You can read the abstract of their study here:
InformaHealthcare.com (http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1586/17512433.2015.1012494).

Sources for this article include:

http://www.eurekalert.org (http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-02/uosf-sal022015.php)

http://informahealthcare.com (http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1586/17512433.2015.1012494)

http://www.patient.co.uk (http://www.patient.co.uk/health/absolute-risk-and-relative-risk)Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/049079_statins_statistical_deception_Big_Pharma.html#ixzz3V9Wuw3WY (http://www.naturalnews.com/049079_statins_statistical_deception_Big_Pharma.html#ixzz3V9Wuw3WY)



Mags

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 22, 2015, 11:55:38 PM
Big Pharma used "statistical deception" to sell deadly statin scam to Americans, study concludes

Learn less:  http://www.naturalnews.com/049079_statins_statistical_deception_Big_Pharma.html#ixzz3V9W5mcDm (http://www.naturalnews.com/049079_statins_statistical_deception_Big_Pharma.html#ixzz3V9W5mcDm)
So do you want to know what's wrong with the NN take on relative risk...or not? (as usual they're either deliberately misunderstanding or being stupid).  I'm pretty sure your answer is 'no'. :)

So how's your fake patient? :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on March 23, 2015, 12:27:23 AM
Big Pharma used "statistical deception" to sell deadly statin scam to Americans, study concludes

Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/049079_statins_statistical_deception_Big_Pharma.html#ixzz3V9W5mcDm (http://www.naturalnews.com/049079_statins_statistical_deception_Big_Pharma.html#ixzz3V9W5mcDm)


(NaturalNews) Statins are a deadly scam, and new research published in the journal Expert Review of Clinical Pharmacology undoubtedly proves this. Using "statistical deception" to make statins appear safe and effective, the drug industry has deviously sold the United States and other Western nations a bill of goods, say researchers, as actual data shows that statins provide almost no benefits while causing serious harm.

Dr. David M. Diamond, a professor of psychology, molecular pharmacology and physiology at the University of South Florida, and Dr. Uffe Ravnskov, an independent health researcher and expert in cholesterol and cardiovascular disease, teamed up to a take a closer look at the claims made about statins. After reviewing a cohort of published studies on statins, they concluded that statistical trickery is responsible for their ill-gained notoriety.

"Statin advocates have used statistical deception to create the illusion that statins are 'wonder drugs,' when the reality is that their modest benefits are more than offset by their adverse effects," wrote the authors in their paper.

Lying drug companies use "relative risk" data to create illusion that statins are safe and effective When poring through the data, the two doctors found that nearly every drug-industry-backed study claiming that statins are safe and effective used "relative risk" data rather than "absolute risk" data. This deceptive tactic is often employed to make drug treatments appear more effective than they actually are, as well as to cover up any adverse effects associated with drug interventions.

By comparing the treatment outcome of one specific group of people to another specific group (relative risk (http://www.naturalnews.com/risk.html)), rather than evaluating how each individual responds to a particular treatment over time irrespective of all others (absolute risk), drug companies deceitfully veil the ineffectiveness of pharmaceuticals and their respective risks from the public.

This is how statin researchers are able to claim that statins (http://www.naturalnews.com/statins.html) benefit 30-50% of the population (relative risk) rather than 1% or less of the population (absolute risk).

"In the Jupiter trial, the public and healthcare workers were informed of a 54 percent reduction in heart attacks, when the actual effect in reduction of coronary events was less than 1 percentage point," wrote the authors concerning a major trial that evaluated Crestor.

"In the ASCOT-LLA study (http://www.naturalnews.com/study.html), which was terminated early because it was considered to have such outstanding results, there were heart attacks and deaths in 3% of the placebo (no treatment) group as compared to 1.9% in the Lipitor group."

"The improvement in outcome with Lipitor treatment was only 1.1 percentage point, but when this study was presented to the public, the advertisements used the inflated (relative risk) statistic, which transformed the 1.1% effect into a 36% reduction in heart attack risk."

Cholesterol changes brought about by statin use lead to cancer Meanwhile, ending statin trials early under the guise of prudence -- most drug industry-pioneered statin studies are terminated within two to five years -- conveniently hides the fact that statins come with major health risks. One of these risks is cancer, as demonstrated by at least one long-term trial which showed a dramatic increase in breast cancer rates among women who took statins for 10 years or longer.

In fact, using statins to artificially lower cholesterol levels, as millions of Americans and others do daily, appears to be directly associated with cancer incidence -- statins clearly cause cancer! But you'll be strained to find this information anywhere in the industry literature, which is so mendaciously formulated as to make statins appear like a miracle drug rather than a lethal ruse.

"The adverse effects suffered by people taking statins are more common than reported in the media and at medical conferences," conclude the authors. "Increased rates of cancer, cataracts, diabetes, cognitive impairments and musculoskeletal disorders more than offset the modest cardiovascular benefits of statin treatment."

Medical journals starting to force drug companies to release all records of adverse events Much of the problem lies with medical journals, which are largely reluctant to demand that industry-backed studies present all their data on adverse events, including absolute risk data. But several major journals, including the British Medical Journal (The BMJ), are attempting to change this.

The BMJ's editor-in-chief, Fiona Godlee, and the chair of Britain's Commons Health Select Committee, Sarah Wollaston, have both called on drug companies to release all of their records involving undisclosed adverse events of statins in their clinical trials. At the same time, doctors like Diamond and Ravnskov are calling on people to take other practical steps to avoid heart disease, including avoiding excess carbohydrates and sugar.

"There is a great appeal to the public to take a pill that offers the promise of a longer life and to live heart attack free," wrote the duo. "The reality, however, is that statins actually produce only small beneficial effects on cardiovascular outcomes, and their adverse effects are far more substantial than is generally known."

You can read the abstract of their study here:
InformaHealthcare.com (http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1586/17512433.2015.1012494).

Sources for this article include:

http://www.eurekalert.org (http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-02/uosf-sal022015.php)

http://informahealthcare.com (http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1586/17512433.2015.1012494)

http://www.patient.co.uk (http://www.patient.co.uk/health/absolute-risk-and-relative-risk)Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/049079_statins_statistical_deception_Big_Pharma.html#ixzz3V9Wuw3WY (http://www.naturalnews.com/049079_statins_statistical_deception_Big_Pharma.html#ixzz3V9Wuw3WY)



Mags
Really?  These guys are morons who must have flunked math.  Let's take their 1% assertion.  They note the Ascot study on Lipitor:

Quote
Quote
"In the ASCOT-LLA study (http://www.naturalnews.com/study.html), which was terminated early because it was considered to have such outstanding results, there were heart attacks and deaths in 3% of the placebo (no treatment) group as compared to 1.9% in the Lipitor group."

I have a control population placed on placebo.  3% of them die within the study period, which is to say 97% survive the study period.  I then have a treated group, and 1.9% die within the study period, while 98.1% survive.  Using this data, what can we predict?

We can predict that if the control and study populations were not biased that for any given similar population that 19 will die if treated, versus 30 if treated with a placebo within a similar period as the study period.  The placebo fatality rate is therefore 30/19, or 158% the fatality rate of the treated group. 

In 2X the study period, all health factors being equal we can predict:

(1-0.9812) deaths treated versus (1-0.972) placebo or:  376 deaths per 10,000 versus 591 for placebo:  158% the deaths from placebo than treated.

In 5X the study period we can predict:

(1-0.9815) deaths treated versus (1-0.975) placebo or:  915 deaths per 10,000 versus 1413 for placebo:  154% the deaths from placebo than treated.

These morons, Natural News, and you by extension of uncrititically regurgitating their nonsense have no clue how to evaluate data.

You might want to consider what kind of silly decisions this absolute difference data that these idiots propose is correct would have affected something like automobile safety features.  In 1960 automobile deaths were 5.09 per 100 million miles driven.  By 2010 that was down to 1.11 fatalities per 100 million passenger miles where it has remained stable.  By population it was 0.02016% per year in 1960 and 0.01035% in 2013.  The absolute difference is less than 0.01%.  Using the moronic logic of these authors that you advocate there would be no good reason to employ the automobile and light truck safety improvements of the past 50 years to marginally improve the fatality rate by 0.01%.  Using the correct relative comparisons we see the truth: We now suffer annual fatalities of 33,000 per year instead of around 151,000 per year that we could reasonably predict had safety improvements not been made: ~460% of what we have.  So do you still think the actionable figure is the absolute percentage?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 23, 2015, 04:24:56 AM
Here's 100% truth pics.



Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 23, 2015, 04:31:22 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/LOUrBN5.png)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 23, 2015, 04:42:41 AM
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Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 23, 2015, 04:51:59 AM
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Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 23, 2015, 04:59:08 AM
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Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 23, 2015, 05:21:38 AM
looks at the difference between MarkE and sarkeizen way of responding to comments.

Every time I try to respond to sarkeizen, I have to go back and see how the fuk he chopped up my paragraph to get a sort of understanding of what he is saying. NOW! I HAVE ALREADY MENTIONED THIS ETIQUETTE PROBLEM since a long time ago and the dumbo does not learn - there fore making him some type of delusional person that cannot conform to even forum etiquette.

That simple fact just puts him back in the heard of dinkies moving forward. lol

You are giving the readers a lot to get confused about = you are only thinking about yourself and not regard what other people read. = all of your followers are confused as confused as you are! That is 100% facts since the beginning of your ranting. You don't view things as if you where in a court of law trying to present the evidence to the judge...you view things as if you are the judge and NO OTHER JUDGE CAN TELL YOU WHAT TO JUDGE!

That simple fact of knowledge is what makes you look like a delusional person. = a tick, vampire, leech, any bottom feeder.

You have nothing worth learning from....your mind is closed. I'm sure your doctor would try to vaccinate you to heal your brain with out any success. 

I'm already tired of you telling me "English" please because you can't understand. I also got tired of you telling me that I was not struggling with my second language too. (trying to imply that my second language was/is not English)

If i was an expert in the English language (like you obviously are) you would be coming up with other excuses no doubt. lol...Like I said, you are just entertainment right about now and I'm waiting to read what the monkey types next (not to take seriously obviously lol).

The evidence shows like a female having a period.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 23, 2015, 05:38:11 AM
Look what the dumbo of sarkeizen said when I posted this link...

http://www.wired.com/2015/03/artificial-light-may-be-unhealthy/

He said...

"Did you read the paper? Nope.
Would you understand it if you did?  Nope.
Are you qualified to talk about this then?.....Nope."

That's all he said. Now that can only go two ways...

1- he is 100% here being bias.
2- he is a fortune teller and know my every move. lol

He is one of those judges in a court of law that will give you the death penalty based on his only will with out looking at the evidence...-= Hitler mentality. Which I hope people don't fall for his mentality and the TRUTH should come out about him.

Peoples lives/health are nothing to play around with....no one has told the dodo bird of sark that he is 100% wrong. Well, that needs to change soon!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 23, 2015, 01:43:15 PM
You are giving the readers a lot to get confused about = you are only thinking about yourself and not regard what other people read. = all of your followers are confused as confused as you are!
So according to you my followers aren't confused at all.  I mean I know what I'm talking about, I make pretty clear posts and I'm happy to clarify any questions people have and I have set out pretty plainly what's required to change my mind and what's required to elicit a detailed analysis from me.
You on the other hand just write long, careless and deliberately poorly worded posts.  You never seem to check your facts and you almost never seem capable of correcting yourself. :)
I very much doubt there are many people following this thread for the medical advice. So I'm not that worried.
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You have nothing worth learning from....your mind is closed.
Clearly wrong on both counts.  a) I've clearly stated what is required to change my mind and b) I clearly understand ID and research methodology better than you.
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I'm already tired of you telling me "English" please because you can't understand.
Then stop pretending you have worse English than you do . :)  Dude, seriously.  You misspelled "strain" about a dozen times.  Even after seeing it written correctly by people responding to your posts.  You would refuse to use a correct word (i.e. serotype) even when you've been corrected a good dozen times.  I could easily go on but it's not unreasonable to believe that you are affecting poor English.
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The evidence shows like a female having a period.
I'd report this for misogyny but as this board doesn't have a problem with racism I'm sure they don't have a problem with misogyny.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 23, 2015, 01:55:33 PM
"Did you read the paper? Nope.
Would you understand it if you did?  Nope.
Are you qualified to talk about this then?.....Nope."

That's all he said. Now that can only go two ways...

1- he is 100% here being bias.
2- he is a fortune teller and know my every move. lol
False dichotomy.

I simply interpreted the evidence that you provided. If you had read the paper you would have realized a few things that entirely undermine your post.  Since you did not realize these things you either did not read the paper OR you did not understand it.  So your opinion on this subject is worth less than shit.  :)
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He is one of those judges in a court of law that will give you the death penalty based on his only will with out looking at the evidence.
I did look at the evidence.  The paper and your post. :)
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Peoples lives/health are nothing to play around with.
...says the person who is cool with people dying needlessly of measles because of some postulated effect that is so low in probability that it can not be observed in research. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on March 24, 2015, 04:00:06 AM
Dissolving Illusions About the Measles Vaccine (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/03/24/dissolving-illusions-measles-vaccine.aspx)
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/03/24/dissolving-illusions-measles-vaccine.aspx
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 24, 2015, 05:01:25 AM
Dissolving Illusions About the Measles Vaccine (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/03/24/dissolving-illusions-measles-vaccine.aspx)
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/03/24/dissolving-illusions-measles-vaccine.aspx
His first point is that VAERS contains more deaths following vaccination than the number attributed to measles.  The first question anyone with a brain would ask is "How do you differentiate between what is sequla and expected events?"

With people with measles it's easy - there are well known sequla: Meningitis, pneumonia,etc..  With vaccination you would have to compare the group against the expected number of deaths in a population that size.  You would also have to adjust for the selection bias in VAERS. Not even counting the fact that VAERS data is not controlled.

It's interesting that he picks two different time scales 2003->2015 and 2005->2015 for NVS.  When you normalize those two his cases drop to 83.  When you select events that occurred within 14 days or less of vaccination it drops to 9.  When you restrict the search to require hospitalization - which means there's at least a chance that a real doctor looked at this person.

It drops to 1.

As is typical of sites like Mercola and Natural News - their articles meander and struggle to make a cogent point.  The next one that I can see is a claim about herd immunity and some manufactured shock about measles outbreaks occurring in specific populations.  Herd immunity is related to the R0 of a disease.  Diseases which are not very infectious do not require a large amount of coverage to confer immunity to the unvaccinated.  Measles as everyone knows is a highly infectious disease - which means you need 90-95% coverage to achieve.  The article he references knowingly looks at populations with coverage as low as 71% where we would not expect to see herd immunity.  It also looks at 1 dose vaccinations which in and of themselves only have a VE in the 80% range.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 24, 2015, 06:44:21 AM
Quote
So according to you my followers aren't confused at all.  I mean I know what I'm talking about, I make pretty clear posts and I'm happy to clarify any questions people have and I have set out pretty plainly what's required to change my mind and what's required to elicit a detailed analysis from me.
You on the other hand just write long, careless and deliberately poorly worded posts.  You never seem to check your facts and you almost never seem capable of correcting yourself. :)
I very much doubt there are many people following this thread for the medical advice. So I'm not that worried.

Yeah yeah yeah. You can say all you want but the evidence is there. From the roots or medicine, You FAIL to understand that ALL DRUGS ARE TOXIC, meaning. The mere fact that a drug is to kill cells, it could kill healthy cells too. Which means all drugs are cell killers. That what they do. They kill the cells that "medical" experts believe it's whats best for the individual. Drugs are only killers of human cells PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

ANd your stupidity fails to understand that simple fact.

I am the type of person that wants to get to the root of the problem while you are just the type of person that just wants to kill all cells that you deem dangerous.

Aside from that, LOL, you cannot be the best medicinal medicine guru in the world that when someone tries to tell you otherwise, you just use your bias judgement to stop anything that will go against your beliefs of your ignorance.

LOL, it is 100% facts that medicine does not cure anything over the long run. Medicine is just a cash cow and you will suffer the same fate. As your parents will = a pill cannot cure a pill.

Quote
Clearly wrong on both counts.  a) I've clearly stated what is required to change my mind and b) I clearly understand ID and research methodology better than you.

So tell me right now, what is the cure for diabetes? what pill?

Tell me right now, what pill is the cure for obesity?

Tell me right now what cure is for ADD?

Tell me right now what cure is for OCD?

Tell me right now what pill is the cure for depression?

Tell me right now what pill is the cure for internet addiction?

Tell me right now what pill is the cure for insomnia?

Go ahead? I'm sure you don't know shyt! lol but go ahead and tell us the pills to take for a 100% disease life!?

The point still is that you have not point at all. You just keep on living in your little fantasy as if you are an expert, heck, I'm sure a doctor whom is an expert has more common sense then you are here stuck in a forum trying to make yourself believe that you have a PHD that has saved lives!

With your propositions, how many lives do you think your beliefs will save a year?  ;D

You still have not mentioned if you are a male nurse or a doctor that operates?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 24, 2015, 07:00:15 AM
Quote
False dichotomy.

I simply interpreted the evidence that you provided. If you had read the paper you would have realized a few things that entirely undermine your post.  Since you did not realize these things you either did not read the paper OR you did not understand it.  So your opinion on this subject is worth less than shit.

Oh lets ask the expert of sark regarding the waves of light. He is an expert regarding everything. lol.

Think about it folks, this guy is going against everything because he is an expert at everything. Tomorrow i can come up with another study being done by another guy and sark will dismiss it because he is an expert at everything. what a bunch of BS!

So let us here what your FACTS are regarding the article?

lol, i'll like to read what the monkey has to say based on that!

Quote
I did look at the evidence.  The paper and your post.

Well, where the hell is your paper regarding anything your diarrhea mouth spits?

Quote
...says the person who is cool with people dying needlessly of measles because of some postulated effect that is so low in probability that it can not be observed in research.

says the person that has no cure for any disease. Your stupid ass does not realize that the drugs are toxic = bullets! They kill the cells while it even kills healthy cells. = side effects.

You believe that it is better to go careless and get the virus cause everything can be cures by medicine...you are the stupidest person in the world.

IT IS BETTER TO AVOID VIRUSES FROM THE START. NO MEDICINE CAN CURE ANYTHING...ONLY THE IMMUNITY DOES.

You are telling people = it is OK to get sick, medicine will cure you?

Sir, where do you work?

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 24, 2015, 02:10:24 PM
You FAIL to understand that ALL DRUGS ARE TOXIC
Only in the sense that "all water is toxic".  Is that what you mean?
Quote
I am the type of person that wants to get to the root of the problem
I'm pretty sure that someone who is interested in the root of the problem doesn't only trust information that reaffirms their own prejudices.
Quote
LOL, it is 100% facts that medicine does not cure anything
Define "cure".  Whoops you can't can you. :)
Quote
You still have not mentioned if you are a male nurse or a doctor that operates?
You seem to think I'm a male nurse.  Which is interesting. :)
Think about it folks, this guy is going against everything because he is an expert at everything.
No, I'm saying that a particular paper is weak evidence because I know something about evaluating evidence.  You don't say that because you don't know jack about evaluating evidence. :)
Quote
Tomorrow i can come up with another study being done by another guy
Please do.  If you have read what I wrote - which you don't for some reason - I even said there are better papers.
Quote
So let us here what your FACTS are regarding the article?
The article references exactly one paper.  That paper isn't a study but a string of other papers attempting to make an argument for a particular mechanism and effects.  Most of those papers are either not strongly linked to the alleged cause or they propose a mechanism based on some tenuous proposition.  It's not a bad thing but anyone who understands a little math would realize that what it's proposing is weak.  On top of that it's not really supporting the same mechanism you are claiming.
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Well, where the hell is your paper
You said that I came to a judgement without evidence.  I showed you that I reviewed the evidence.
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IT IS BETTER TO AVOID VIRUSES FROM THE START.
Evidence suggests that when vaccines are available attempts to avoid viruses through other means are not nearly as successful in most cases. :)
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Sir, where do you work?
At a job.  How is high-school treating you?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 24, 2015, 02:24:45 PM
So Joel, SeaMonkey, Magluvin, Tink here's a good example about what I mean concerning evaluating evidence.  Have a go at this: http://imr.sagepub.com/content/32/2/132.full.pdf

It has nothing to do with vaccines or anything we've been talking about it's about treating influenza with elderberry extract.  Read the study, then post why you think it's good or bad.  I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 25, 2015, 02:37:51 AM
Joel:

You are saying that no pill or medicine ever cured anything?  Do you really believe this?

OK, so, you have been diagnosed with a case of worms.  (there are a lot of those here in KY as most do not wear shoes)  So, your Dr. gives you 1 simple pill that kills the worms and you pass them.  Now, you no longer have worms.  Is this not a "cure' in your opinion?

You spray for your jock itch problem.  (tinea cruris)  After several application of this medicine, suddenly this form of ringworm is dead and you no longer have jock itch.  Were you not just cured?

I mean, please be real.  There are indeed medications that actually do cure a problem.  If you do not want to believe this then, I can't help that.  Are you the type person that would rather have worms than "risk" taking the medication that can kill them instantly?  If so, I feel bad for you.

You need to look up risk management and also study some statistical analysis in order to help you make better decisions.

An Airbus just flew into a mountain today, killing all on board.  Does this mean you would never fly?  Even if that made you more than 1,000 times more likely to get killed on your trip?  See what I mean?

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 25, 2015, 05:19:01 AM
Quote
You are saying that no pill or medicine ever cured anything?  Do you really believe this?

It may sound wrong for you but you have to understand how medicine works. Medicine just tries to help the immunity. It does that by killing the tissue. Like I already mentioned, how to removed tattoos, the laser kills the cells that hold the ink, so the white blood cells can take the metal ink particles to the liver and then you either shit it out or piss it out.

Now I do believe in pills as a last resort. Like if you are at war and step on a land mine, if you don't stop the bleeding and prevent infection, most likely than not, you will die, BUT you will still end up with an amputation IF your medical assistants stop the bleeding and the risk of infection. At that point the stopping the bleeding becomes the HIGHEST priority than the infection. blah blah blah.

So the pills are the last resorts because they kill healthy cells too. A better prevention is to not step on the land mine in the first place. NOT step on the land mine and expect to live.


Quote
OK, so, you have been diagnosed with a case of worms.  (there are a lot of those here in KY as most do not wear shoes)  So, your Dr. gives you 1 simple pill that kills the worms and you pass them.  Now, you no longer have worms.  Is this not a "cure' in your opinion?

Yes that's a last resort cure to help the body immunity to fight off the worm. What is the death rate for worms there? Also, why don't they wear shoes there? Is it because of that guy from dual survivor or poverty? I find it hard to believe that if you can afford clothes, you cannot afford shoes?

At any rate, I believe in medicine just because the body heals itself up to a point. The medicine Just helps the body heal itself...the medicine is just a helper for the immunity. ONLY!

Quote
You spray for your jock itch problem.  (tinea cruris)  After several application of this medicine, suddenly this form of ringworm is dead and you no longer have jock itch.  Were you not just cured?

Well you could live with it the rest of your life. And second, that's nasty! These are the steps:

1- Someone got the worm.
2- Someone figured out how the worm got there in the first place.
3- Someone made a medicine to help the immune system fight it.

If in today's year and age 2015 someone continues to get that worm, they are not educated ennough in how things have been figures out from step two since a long time ago.

Prevention is always better than to live with an amputated limb.

Quote
I mean, please be real.  There are indeed medications that actually do cure a problem.  If you do not want to believe this then, I can't help that.  Are you the type person that would rather have worms than "risk" taking the medication that can kill them instantly?  If so, I feel bad for you.

I understand what you are saying, but can you tell me why I don't have worms and someone else does?

Is it because of magic?

Bad luck?

A black cat walked in front of you?

etc.

Quote
An Airbus just flew into a mountain today, killing all on board.  Does this mean you would never fly?  Even if that made you more than 1,000 times more likely to get killed on your trip?  See what I mean?

This does not relate to human immunity, this mostly relates to human error. Which, it favors mostly on the side of medicine,= a human made pill is a Airbus that kills people SLOWLY into a mountain....the key word is SLOWLY because no one is actually doing studies about the long term SIDE EFFECTS because you need money to conduct studies. Plain and simple.

Who is funding the smoke related illnesses? The commercials about "truth" regarding smoke illnesses are founded by tobacco companies...lol...now why do you think that is and what other studies are funded by their own, whats the word, company I guess?

I do believe in medicine as a last resort, not as a sort of thing the body needs everyday like breathing air or eating food.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 25, 2015, 12:50:54 PM
Medicine just tries to help the immunity.
So medicine can't help someone who is immunocompromized?  They just die instantly?  Sounds like you didn't do any research.  In other words you sound like you. :)
Quote
It does that by killing the tissue.
The mechanism for some medicine is to destroy tissue but not all and some medicine is highly selective - that is it almost never kills tissue that is healthy and some is considerably less selective.  However again the same could be said for water.  Water in sufficient quantities will still destroy tissue.  However like water, medicine is applied in situations where the alternative involves an outcome which is considerably less desirable.
Quote
Now I do believe in pills as a last resort.
So they do cure people or not.  This conversation would be easier if you just (usefully) defined "cure" but since you would lose the argument.  I can see why you wouldn't. :)

So please stop trying so very hard to be stupid. :)  If possible. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 25, 2015, 03:16:39 PM
Normally I'm not prone to SeaMonkey style imagespam but this was pretty on the money...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 26, 2015, 07:43:44 AM
Quote
So medicine can't help someone who is immunocompromized?  They just die instantly?  Sounds like you didn't do any research.  In other words you sound like you.

I already told you medicine is a LAST RESORT for survival. It is not the someone needs as MANDATORY for life.

What you are talking about here is "born defects". Some people are born with a third nipple, some with an extra limb, some with the inability to feel pain, some with a weak immunity....and so on. These kind of people need more attention than the rest, but now medicine will cure them?

How can you cure a weak born immunity with pills?

The answer to that is:

First diagnose the person as being born with a weak immune system.

Then tell the person to wear a mask with a micron filter. Always carry a disinfectant that kills all viruses upon contact. If there is a minor cut, pour the emergency liquid on the wound ASAP and cover it. IOW, they need WAYYYYY more PREVENTATIVE measures than those that drop food on the floor and pick it up and eat it like babies do and will. (maybe some adults do that too? lol)

SO to answer your question, medicine is a toxic killer to help to kill the virus when it gets in, THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL THE MEDICINE WILL GIVE THE PERSON IMMUNITY?

If yes, what type of medicine is that?

Quote
The mechanism for some medicine is to destroy tissue but not all and some medicine is highly selective - that is it almost never kills tissue that is healthy and some is considerably less selective.

You are not understanding the roots of medicine.

-a tattoo laser remover KILLS the upper skin cells.
-a flue shot kills the virus.
-head and shoulder kills the upper layer of the skin.
-anti-perspirant kills the sweat ducts so they can stop sweating. (plug them with microscopic aluminum)
-any type of flesh easting bacteria, the drug kills the bacteria along with healthy tissue...if that does not work, cut away the rotten flesh.
-JB weld is not healthy on a wounded machine. lol

NOW

There is no cure for the flu virus.
There is no cure for depression.
There is no cure for OCD.
There is no cure for ADD.
There is no cure for obesity.
There is no cure for insomnia.
There is no cure for dandruff.
There is no cure for boneloss.
There is no cure for drug addiction. (in fact, taking medicinal drugs promotes more drug addiction)
There is no cure for internet addiction.
There is no cure for sexual addiction.

And the list goes on and on....since you are trying to make MANDATORY vaccines, how come there are no mandatory cures for the rest of the illnesses?

Instead of believing that you have figured everything out and all high and mighty, why don't you admit that you know very little?

Quote
So they do cure people or not.  This conversation would be easier if you just (usefully) defined "cure" but since you would lose the argument.  I can see why you wouldn't. :)

By the same token, you have to define how DRUGS "cure" people?

Like my analogy of someone stepping on a land mine, the cure is a person surviving with both legs missing?

The "cure" for a flue shot is to take a flue shot ever year?

The cure for small boobs is plastic surgery to give Pamela Anderson bigger boobs?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 26, 2015, 01:37:41 PM
I already told you medicine is a LAST RESORT for survival. It is not the someone needs as MANDATORY for life.
Except that I'm talking about what you said here (and I quoted this part but you ignored it because you are stupid or perhaps so you can whine about not quoting en toto).
Medicine just tries to help the immunity.
If that's ONLY the way medicine works then someone who is immunocompromised can never be cured of an infection and since their immune system is either not working or severely impaired they would surely die or have severe consequences.   Yet immunocompromised patients do appear to be able to recover from infections when given medication.  So either you have to believe that medicine *CURES* the infection or some other magical thing happens which you haven't described yet.

Let me know when you figure out what you are saying.  I'm sure it will take a long time :)
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What you are talking about here is "born defects".
Nope.  I'm talking about being immunocompromised.
Quote
You are not understanding the roots of medicine.
No, I'm pretty sure I understand it better than you. :)
Quote
Instead of believing that you have figured everything out and all high and mighty
The only person here pretending they have everything figured out is you. :)  Remember you were the one boasting and boasting and boasting and boasting and boasting about how easily you could learn anything I know.  Yet you are still afraid to even MENTION that you are too afraid to play a simple game with me. :)  I'm the one patiently pointing out your mistakes even when you can't bring yourself to admit them. :)

Also you appear to be avoiding my question about "all medicine is toxic".  Is that the same as "all water is toxic"?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 27, 2015, 01:44:43 AM
Joel probably thinks JB Weld is toxic.  Well, my radiator made it through the winter without leaking, my heat pump still works, that woman's dishwasher still works, my window closer on my van is still together, and the jet ski motor mount I fixed with it is still working fine after 10 years.

But Joel claims it does not work.  So, I suppose I should call those folks and tell them to quit using their stuff.  Throw it all out and buy new.  Waste money, yes, that is the idea.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 27, 2015, 01:59:10 AM
But Joel claims it does not work.  So, I suppose I should call those folks and tell them to quit using their stuff.  Throw it all out and buy new.  Waste money, yes, that is the idea.
Is Joel a shill for JBWeld's competitors? :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 27, 2015, 02:02:25 AM
Is Joel a shill for JBWeld's competitors? :)

I suppose that is possible.  He does seem to make many attempts to convince folks not to use it.

Maybe he had a bad experience with it as a kid?

Who knows?

But wait, I thought we were the only paid shills on here?  My God.  Is the field really this crowded now?  How will we ever make any money then?

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 27, 2015, 03:41:09 AM
But wait, I thought we were the only paid shills on here?  My God.  Is the field really this crowded now?  How will we ever make any money then?
Guess I have to go back to working.

There's an interesting point in this joke.  I mean if I'm really as stupid as Joel claims then clearly being a paid shill is unskilled work. Why ISN'T the market flooded?  Does it pay poorly?

This is why I wish these guys were serious about me being a paid troll.  I'd really like to hear how they think the whole think works. Do I get paid by the word like a writer?  Am I salaried?  Do I have insurance?  A union?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 27, 2015, 07:27:51 AM
Quote
Joel probably thinks JB Weld is toxic.  Well, my radiator made it through the winter without leaking, my heat pump still works, that woman's dishwasher still works, my window closer on my van is still together, and the jet ski motor mount I fixed with it is still working fine after 10 years.

But Joel claims it does not work.  So, I suppose I should call those folks and tell them to quit using their stuff.  Throw it all out and buy new.  Waste money, yes, that is the idea.

Those myth busters did a show about JB weld, and trust me, it failed all over the place. Maybe you are talking about things in your dreams?

Can you post pictures of your JB weld fixing. Heck! Maybe you can be one of their spoke sponsors and get payed to show the claims.

Show me the pictures?

PS, I have used it many times. It it's also called “bondo” for the car/boat industry or epoxy for other things.

Where did you buy this miracle JB weld you claim? Lol.

If JB weld if far superior, why are not companies JB welding everything? :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 27, 2015, 01:25:15 PM
I'll just leave this here...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 28, 2015, 04:53:03 AM
^You don't realize that what ever study you are doing does not mean that you know EVERYTHING regarding all medicine. You fail that miserably. I don't know why are you so scared to show what is your major in the medical field? But no matter what it is, you are not the EXPERT IN ALL MEDICINAL. There are way more greater medical thinkers than you sir based on the way you express yourself. It is what it is and has already been painfully shown.

You find it quick and fast to just ignore links to articles quick. As, if you are in greater intelligence than the researcher that did the study! That is some kind of ignorant mentality. As you are saying that you are 100% over everything and everyone else that goes against you is 100% wrong just because we go against you. You don't show any proof nor your PHD, you are just an anonymous mouse so everything that you say is just not that important.

At any rate, if you are the know-it-all that medicine cure, why have you not answered to me the following?

There is no cure for the flu virus.
There is no cure for depression.
There is no cure for OCD.
There is no cure for ADD.
There is no cure for obesity.
There is no cure for insomnia.
There is no cure for dandruff.
There is no cure for bone-loss.
There is no cure for drug addiction. (in fact, taking medicinal drugs promotes more drug addiction)
There is no cure for internet addiction.
There is no cure for sexual addiction.

]EDIT: By the "no cure" I mean with drugs. There are cures for all naturally. Sorry if I was not being clear.


And the list is bigger, those are just out of the top of my head. For every action there is an equal an opposite reaction? Which means, for the drugs to kill a virus, they will kill other healthy cells in the body in order to combat the illness. There is no way to TARGET the virus 100% dead center. And this is pretty obvious by me that I find it hard for an EXPERT to not understand. This means that there will always be a negative effect to the medicine and one needs to outweigh the risks....

You have not even mentioned anything about any medicine curing anything?

You did not even speak anything about why you think that artificial light does not harm people. You didn't even show anything why that may be bogus, you just bluntly say NO! As if just by saying NO, the study becomes false..lol.

You are just an "expert" joke sir. :P

The only one backing you up to this point is the guy that JB welds metal. lol

It is the same proses that goes on and on.

1-First acquire a virus from an infected person.
2-Try to "reverse" engineer it and come up with a trial vaccine.
3-Experiment with lab animals like monkeys and rats for a cure.
4-Get the trial vaccine in volunteers/inmates/those that have the virus. 
5-The human survived but the vaccinator does not know the long term ill effects. Nor there is enough test study to know how harmful the vaccine is in the long run!!

Prevention is always the ONLY cure (how does the virus get in the body in the first place and why is the virus living there in the first place). While vaccinations are the last resort. i.e. you get sick (believing that a medicine has you covered = careless prevention), get a second ticket to life today with drugs even if half of you immunity is take away from you. Prevention is always better than medicine.

Do you even understand where the flu virus comes from? I mean, from where is it born and how does the first human gets it during winder in the first place and then spread it around tot he rest?

Do you even know how the flu virus enters the body in the first place sir? Please explain your expertness!

Also, please explain how the Ebola virus started?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/7efc0f1ffb4ec15dae112782e935cba6.htm

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 28, 2015, 05:24:31 AM
At this point, sark has shown his true colors with out a doubt.

The best advice I've read so far was from Farmhand.... way more beneficial than the crap that comes out of sark and his creepy smiley faces.

Farmhand:
Quote
To be safer get information about the exact vaccine you are considering or are being forced to take, if it was me I would steer clear of any live virus vaccinations or any vaccinations from multi-dose vials, also reject any vaccinations containing Aluminium
or the old mercury based Thiomersal which is or was basically a preservative made from mercury to prevent all the proteins derived from monkey brains and all kinds of other nice stuff from going off in the multi-dose vials.

A lot of vaccines are unnecessary and some vaccinated people can spread the disease. If it were not for vaccines some of the diseases vaccinated for would be extinct.

Many of the diseases vaccinated for were in decline when vaccinations were introduced and this perpetuates the disease keeping it widespread indefinitely.

Like almost anything, a basically good thing (Vaccination) which can be done naturally has become the cash cow of the big pharma
and they of course are mixing in a lot of money spinning vaccines with the spiel that all vaccines are safe and necessary.

When in reality only some are important and most are harmful but unnecessary or even just perpetuate the disease.

The argument that un-vaccinated children are a risk to vaccinated children does not even make sense as the vaccination is supposed to protect them, the reality is the opposite the vaccinated children are a danger to the un-vaccinated ones and should be quarantined until they are no longer a threat to un-vaccinated children and adults as well.

They want the un-vaccinated children to be excluded so that it does not become apparent that the vaccinated children are speading some of the diseases to the un-vaccinated children.

If a vaccinated child passed a disease to an un-vaccinated child I would see that as an breach of common law and people should be liable for damages and/or criminal prosecution.

Fight for your right to not be vaccinated and also fight for vaccinated children to be separated from the vaccinated ones in the same way they fight to have the vaccinated children excluded, people should fight the opposite fight to have the vaccinated children excluded from interacting with un-vaccinated children.

The forced or "pushed vaccinations" should only be a very few. And with no evidence of any harm being caused by them.

Many diseases were in decline when the vaccine for them was introduced and this prevented the extinction of the diseases. This meant they could sell vaccines for those diseases for ever and make them compulsory and routine and a base money spinner for big pharma.

Ask the doctor for an ingredients list for the vaccine, if they cannot provide it then refuse the vaccine. We at least have the right to a full ingredients list and where the ingredients were derived from before being injected with the vaccine. That's a given, they cannot argue that.

If most people actually saw the list of ingredients and what they are made from they would likely refuse to allow vaccination of their children.

Get the list or just let them inject you with a bunch of stuff that probably half or more of the doctors don't even know what they contain.

If your doctor cannot tell you exactly what is in the vaccine then that doctor is uninformed and should not be injecting people with stuff when they don't even know what it contains. That sounds criminal to me.

..

We should be trying to eradicate the old real bad diseases as some were, not perpetuate them for profit.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 28, 2015, 05:33:00 AM
Also noticed how he just blatantly ignored the rise of heart diseases. NO pepe came from that mouse regarding that cheese. Not even  squeak. But yet he is the know-it-all regarding health!lol

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 28, 2015, 06:28:48 AM
^You don't realize that what ever study you are doing does not mean that you know EVERYTHING regarding all medicine.
The graphic is pointing out that people like you, SeaMonkey, Magluvin talk about "research" but what you do is small and poor compared to people who actually do research.
Quote
I don't know why are you so scared to show what is your major in the medical field?
I thought you said you were 100% certain that I was a nurse. :)
Quote
you are not the EXPERT IN ALL MEDICINAL.
You keep accusing me of this and I keep telling you the same thing.  I'm not an expert in all of medicine.  I'm simply far more well-read than you are and probably more than you ever will be - I'm basing that on how easily you accept ideas that are part of your prejudices and how much you fight even the most obvious facts (like vaccinations are preventative and that vaccines protect against a serotype not a strain).
Quote
There are way more greater medical thinkers than you sir
Again I've never said otherwise.  You sadly, are simply not numbered among them. :)
Quote
You find it quick and fast to just ignore links to articles quick.
Which articles? Whoops you won't say.  You'll just bounce over to something else to whine about. :)
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As, if you are in greater intelligence than the researcher that did the study!
Which study?  Whooops.  You won't say.  :)
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As you are saying that you are 100% over everything and everyone else
Nope.  I've actually said the opposite many times...but you would have to read what I write to see that. :)
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You don't show any proof
Proof of what?  Whoops.  You won't say that either.  :)  Is there anything you talk about that you can put in useful terms?  Probably not because those arguments you lose.  It's always safer for you to just make things up and then don't explain them. :)
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At any rate, if you are the know-it-all that medicine cure, why have you not answered to me the following?
Because that's not an English sentence. :)
Quote
There is no cure for...
Until you define "cure" the questions are meaningless. :) 

Quote
for the drugs to kill a virus, they will kill other healthy cells in the body in order to combat the illness. There is no way to TARGET the virus 100% dead center.
Well a) Not all illnesses are viral, b) not all medicines operate by killing cells and c) 100% is irrelevant. 

As I've said you kill cells when you drink water, play sports.  So.....

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This means that there will always be a negative effect to the medicine and one needs to outweigh the risks....
In the same sense that there is always a negative effect in drinking water....or anything :)

Quote
You have not even mentioned anything about any medicine curing anything?
Actually I have but you don't read my posts.   
Quote
You did not even speak anything about why you think that artificial light does not harm people.
Yawn.  So?  Oh wait...you didn't read the paper did you?  So a) The paper does not support the thesis you just wrote and b) The thesis it DOES support it only provides weak evidence for I explained why I considered the evidence weak but you didn't read it or you didn't understand but you can't bring yourself to ask what I meant. :)
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You didn't even show anything why that may be bogus
I did.  You just have your fingers in your ears. :)
Quote
As if just by saying NO, the study becomes false.
I think I'm going to start calling these comments by you "joel" because it's almost synonymous with wrong.  So that is very Joel of you Joel. :)

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2-Try to "reverse" engineer it and come up with a trial vaccine.
That's a pretty Joel (wrong) think to say!
Quote
The human survived but the vaccinator does not know the long term ill effects.
Actually you can and I've explained this but when are you ever going to listen. :)
Quote
Nor there is enough test study to know how harmful the vaccine is in the long run!!
Again, already refuted...let me know when you take your fingers out. :)
Quote
Prevention is always the ONLY cure
In English "prevention" is the opposite of a "Cure".  People who have a disease are cured people who did not get the disease have "prevented" it.  Vaccines are preventative and when it comes to vaccines we know that prevention attempts are almost always less effective (in areas with modern population densities) than vaccination. :)  The ebola outbreak was an example of this people who have done far more than any Joel could ever do to prevent the disease only reduced the R0 by half.

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Do you even understand where the flu virus comes from? I mean, from where is it born
Last time I asked you to define "born" you talked about vaginas and I mentioned that viruses don't have those organs and then you put your fingers in your ears again. :)

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and how does the first human gets it during winder in the first place and then spread it around tot he rest?
Winder?
Quote
Also, please explain how the Ebola virus started?
Sorry no "started' or 'born' questions until you start speaking English. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 28, 2015, 06:30:32 AM
Also noticed how he just blatantly ignored the rise of heart diseases. NO pepe came from that mouse regarding that cheese. Not even  squeak. But yet he is the know-it-all regarding health!lol
I just ignored all your charts.  Is there something specific you would like me to comment on here moron-boy? (or should I just say "joel")
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 28, 2015, 06:32:35 AM
At this point, sark has shown his true colors with out a doubt.
LOL Oh and what is that?
Quote
The best advice I've read so far was from Farmhand.
Well as I said all you do is look for things that you already agree with and accept them. :)
(incidentally MagLuvin and SeaMonkey use way more emoticons than I do)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 28, 2015, 08:34:53 AM
WTF, look at all the dissecting of my paragraphs. Not even going to bother answering cus you just confuse people. Fuck, I think I've lost a couple of brain cells answering to you. I keep on telling you not to dissect my paragraphs cause then things become confusing = out of context. But yet this clown continues to do just that! Why? Because this guy is confused RIGHT NOW. I'm most certain he has some type of brain disorder no questions asked. Who can be 100% sane when they keep on doing the same thing over and over again? AHEM! Don't chop up my paragraphs! Holly dookie on a pedestal! This guy is stubborn as fuck!

Well your true colors are coming out sarkchiken lol

Quote
I just ignored all your charts.  Is there something specific you would like me to comment on here moron-boy? (or should I just say "joel")

It has come to the point that you are just seeking attention and disregarding true facts. That chart is not mine, that chart was done by SMART scientists (not you) and it is still being tracked to this day. IOW, it's a chart that has been tracked by scientists. Is it well known to main stream media, well you are the expert and should be able to understand how studies are done. Lol

Remember, you are the expert, if you don't know where that chart comes from, then there goes another fact that you are not an expert at all but just an ignorant clown lol.

Quote
(incidentally MagLuvin and SeaMonkey use way more emoticons than I do)

Sir I can bet 3 dollars you are wrong. For one, you are the only person debating here against the topic. Second, your emoticons are king of creepy. A smeley face right after every single one liner sentense! You are raping this emoticon ---> :)

In conclusion, yet another bland response from this “expert”. = true colors are showing.

You sir are a troll that has passed the radar! Truth be told lol.

Who are your mentors regarding medicine?

What certificates are under your name?

Can you say your phone number with your eyes closed?

Can you walk a straight line with out tripping on your own feet sir?

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 28, 2015, 08:48:57 AM
Look at the sarkchicen not mention anything about the vaccination of the Ebola virus?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/7efc0f1ffb4ec15dae112782e935cba6.htm

I'm sure he is doing some testing on monkeys in his imaginary lab! Lol

This guy is a joke to be honest. His true colors are out already. = He does not know jack let alone from where the flu virus comes from? lol  ::)

He will say, "English to define where it comes from?" ...yawn!

Next!


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 28, 2015, 03:08:25 PM
Not even going to bother answering cus you just confuse people.
If you had a real argument we would have heard it a long time ago.  So I think I'll just keep a list called:

Things Joel Always Avoids Talking About Because He's Afraid Of Being Wrong

ii) How vaccines are preventative - using the English definition of the term
iii) Your definition of "cure".
iv) Being afraid to play go against me
v) Talking about you being afraid to play go against me.
vi) Are immunocompromised people *cured* from infections by medicine?
vii) Not all medicine's mechanism is lysis - so not all medicine is about killing cells.  So your "roots of medicine" is wrong.
viii) How the paper about artificial light isn't actually about it harming you in and of itself.
ix) How the paper's evidence is weak and that's ok.
x) How you evaluate evidence.
xi) What his "born" or "comes from" questions mean in English.
xii) What commentary he wants about various charts and articles.
xiii) How he was wrong about me knowing where vaccines are made.
xiv) How he was wrong about most vaccines (in North America) being made in China

There's probably more.  Since Joel is just a looped tape of nonsense I'm sure we will collect the whole set in a few days.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 29, 2015, 07:25:26 AM
Quote
If you had a real argument we would have heard it a long time ago.  So I think I'll just keep a list called:

Have you ever had a conversation with a real human face to face?

How does that prosses go?

Lets say you are having a conversation with your mechanic. Your car broke down and needs repairing. You take it to the mechanic because you want it fixed. Tehn the mechanic fixes it for you and you are on your way.

How did that conversation go for you and the mechanic?

You want your car to get fixed right? No doubt! BUT! that means that you are not the expert about everything. There are people that know way more than you do and the ONLY way you answer is like you know everything where there is nothing else to know. That basically makes you believe that there is nothing else to be learned.

How do the conversations got with people such as:

-computers techs.
-mechanics.
-broaker.
-banks.
-IRS.
-LCD TV technician.
-architecture.
-HVAC technician.
-gun expert.
-house decorator.
-etc etc etc.

How do your conversations in real life go with them?

Do you disect everything day say and then smile like a clown?

You have the mentality of a lawyer, where you will always argue even when you are wrong!

Reagarding the rest...ptfff!

Quote
ii) How vaccines are preventative - using the English definition of the term

Been there done that, by now you have said this about 10 times at least!. = not smart!

Quote
iii) Your definition of "cure".

Been there done that, by now you have said this about 10 times at least!. = not smart!

Quote
iv) Being afraid to play go against me

Dude I already heard this over ten times. You and your little stupid game. What if you beat me? It will not change how vaccinations work! = you need to feel that you are wining all of the time to feel like you are correct. Which is some type of mental issue you have based on your parents forcing you to be better all of the time...= you where never good enough. Meh!

Quote
v) Talking about you being afraid to play go against me.

Isn't this the same as iv? lol

Quote
vi) Are immunocompromised people *cured* from infections by medicine?

The being born people with weak immunity will not gain normal 100% immunity from medicine. Yawn!

Quote
vii) Not all medicine's mechanism is lysis - so not all medicine is about killing cells.  So your "roots of medicine" is wrong.

Where are your studies or references?

Quote
viii) How the paper about artificial light isn't actually about it harming you in and of itself.

Did you even read the article. Let me see you quote the article and respond by using your brain instead of giving lazy answer that any monkey can say....iiihh iiiihhh gaaaa gaaaa.

Quote
ix) How the paper's evidence is weak and that's ok.

English please!

Quote
x) How you evaluate evidence.

English please!

Quote
xi) What his "born" or "comes from" questions mean in English.

I saw this coming 1000 miles away, that is getting olddd and makes you look like a broken idiot record. Meh!

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xii) What commentary he wants about various charts and articles.

Ignore the rest but lest hear you talk about the rise of heart disease? Dumbo!

Quote
xiii) How he was wrong about me knowing where vaccines are made.

From where di you get your resources? I'm not 100% unless you show facts! :P

Quote
xiv) How he was wrong about most vaccines (in North America) being made in China

I am not wrong yet because you never showed any facts! So you cannot claim voctory yet.

Quote
There's probably more.  Since Joel is just a looped tape of nonsense I'm sure we will collect the whole set in a few days.

No matter what you say it only shows that you are only speaking spout yourself. = one dimmensional. What I speak is 3D. = I don't only care about my health but the health of my brothers, sisters, moms, and dads. As jesus died in the cross, he set an example for decades till the future.

You are only being closed minded thinking about yourself plain and simple.

Are you a lawyer, or a retired lawyer?

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 29, 2015, 06:34:40 PM
that means that you are not the expert about everything.
A point I've conceded many times.  I simply maintain that within the things you have discussed I know considerably more than you.  It's really not that unlikely you are pretty exceptionally stupid in the area of medicine. :)

So let's continue with Things Joel refuses to talk about because he is so afraid of being wrong
ii) How vaccines are preventative - using the English definition of the term
Quote
by now you have said this about 10 times at least!.
...because it's true.  Vaccines prevent specific illness, so they are preventative medicine.  Just like putting on hazmat gear.  So again you refuse to talk about about this because you don't want to admit you're wrong. :)
iii) Your definition of "cure".
Quote
Been there done that, by now you have said this about 10 times at least!.
...and you keep not providing a useful definition of the term but then keep demanding that medicine "cure" things.  Again you refuse to discuss this because you don't want to be wrong.  As soon as you define the term it will either be easy to show that your definition is inconsistent or that your position is wrong. :)
iv) Being afraid to play go against me
Quote
What if you beat me? It will not change how vaccinations work! = you need to feel that you are wining all of the time to feel like you are correct.
No not at all.  However YOU made the challenge that ANYTHING I can do you can easily be as good or better.  This is an easy way to definitively test that but of course you don't want that because you don't want to be wrong (again!).
v) Talking about you being afraid to play go against me.
Quote
Isn't this the same as iv? lol
No you are both scared to talk ABOUT not wanting to play and AFRAID to play.  Two different issues. :)
vi) Are immunocompromised people *cured* from infections by medicine?
Quote
The being born people with weak immunity
Nope.  Immunocompromised is not the same as being born with weak immunity. :) 
Quote
will not gain normal 100% immunity
Awesome.  See the discussion is about "You are afraid to discuss that medicine does cure illness in the immunocompromised" and you just illustrated that perfectly because right there, in that sentence you showed that you are completely UNABLE to talk about the point.  You had to switch to a different point. :) :) :) :) :) :)

Thanks for pretty much conceding there.
vii) Not all medicine's mechanism is lysis - so not all medicine is about killing cells.  So your "roots of medicine" is wrong.
Quote
Where are your studies or references?
So your claim is that there is NOT ONE medication that who's primary mechanism is NOT to kill cells.  Please agree to exactly what I just said and we'll continue the conversation.  More likely you're so afraid of being wrong that you'll just ignore this or dance around it. :)
viii) How the paper about artificial light isn't actually about it harming you in and of itself.[/q]
Quote
Did you even read the article.
Yep.  I also read the research it was based on.  You didn't. :) If I was wrong you could easily cite the paper and show me where I'm wrong but you can't.  Isn't that interesting? You'll probably just keep ignoring this because again you're kind of afraid of being wrong.
ix) How the paper's evidence is weak and that's ok.
Quote
English please!
The paper has, at best weak evidence and that is ok.  Some research is speculative, some research journals are almost entirely speculative (Physical Review D. for example).  Some research is just to "bring the question to the table".  Sadly, a lot of papers like that are more CV padding than anything else.  If you had read the paper this would be obvious.  You didn't, so it isn't. :)
x) How you evaluate evidence.
Quote
English please!
It's simple.   Explain how you differentiate weak evidence from strong evidence bet you can't. :)
xi) What his "born" or "comes from" questions mean in English.
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I saw this coming 1000 miles away, that is getting olddd and makes you look like a broken idiot record.
You still haven't answered this without mentioning vaginas. :)
xii) What commentary he wants about various charts and articles.
Quote
Ignore the rest but lest hear you talk about the rise of heart disease?
What do you want to talk about concerning heart disease rates?  It's actually a pretty broad topic.  Didn't you know that? :)
xiii) How he was wrong about me knowing where vaccines are made.[/b[
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From where di you get your resources?
Already told you within a day of me responding with the list of manufacturing facilities but why would you ever read anything that was contrary to your stupid beliefs? :)
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I'm not 100%
...stupid?  No but you are so close it's kind of fun to watch you flail about.
xiv) How he was wrong about most vaccines (in North America) being made in China
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I am not wrong
Irony->Yes, yes nothing is facts except what YOU read Joel.  Your interpretation of things can't possibly be hampered by how stupid you are. :)  Just keep thinking that way and you will learn absolutely nothing.  Which will make you far more entertaining for everyone smarter than you. :)
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No matter what you say it only shows that you are only speaking spout yourself.
No I'm speaking about you.  Just working to help you learn that you are a moron.  The sooner you learn that you are so catastrophically stupid about the things you are talking about here.  The sooner you will give up your moronic ideas about medicine. When I do that, I'll move on to the next moron. 
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You are only being closed minded
Nope, that's you and only you.  All you do is look for things that already AGREE WITH YOU.  By contrast I am here BEGGING for people to provide contrasting information of HIGH quality.  See the difference?  No?  Didn't think so. :)
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Are you a lawyer, or a retired lawyer?
You were 100% certain I was a male nurse?  Now what?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 30, 2015, 06:19:17 AM
Quote
A point I've conceded many times.  I simply maintain that within the things you have discussed I know considerably more than you.  It's really not that unlikely you are pretty exceptionally stupid in the area of medicine. :)

You are living in your own little bubble world as you said that getting the flu shot prevents the flu more than the infected person coughing/sneezing inside his/her t-shirt. Yeah buddy! You know more than me. And NOT ONLY THAT to this day and time, you still claim that taking medicine for viruses is way better than preventing the virus from entering the body in the first place = yeah you are very very intelligent. lol

Quote
...because it's true.  Vaccines prevent specific illness, so they are preventative medicine.  Just like putting on hazmat gear.  So again you refuse to talk about about this because you don't want to admit you're wrong. :)

I already told you, as others, that vaccinations do work a certain extent. = you still have those side effects one needs to deal with. Like I told you, I step on a land mine. I loose both legs. In a natural evolution life, I would be dead, but in a medicinal world, I can live with no legs and spend the rest of my life working with out legs trying to pay my medical bills.

That is clear as bottled water. What you fail to understand is those SIDE EFFECTS!

Just the simple FACT about the flu virus vaccine. The nasal vaccine contains the virus strain more "alive" than the saringe flu shot. Both have their cons and pros. BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY YOU ARE INJECTED WITH A FLU VIRUS. So it is really not a cure by the doctors but more like THEY INJECT THE VIRUS IN YOUR BODY!

So vaccines cary the virus genetic code that is being injected in your body.

This is very simple to understand by me and i'm not even a doctor.

1- inject the virus in a monkey with one gene removed. Lets see what happens = monkey died. Inject another monkey with the same but lets take out another gene. Ok, monkey died also. Rinse and repeat. <---this is what really works AND I BELIEVE IN! wHAT i DON'T BELIEVE IN IS THOSE IMMUNITY ENHANCERS!

But whatever, your stupid mind just want to be right about whatever you say. lol. You have ZERO intelligence what so ever even if you where to write a 500 page book. The end point would still be the same. MEK=H!

Quote
...and you keep not providing a useful definition of the term but then keep demanding that medicine "cure" things.  Again you refuse to discuss this because you don't want to be wrong.  As soon as you define the term it will either be easy to show that your definition is inconsistent or that your position is wrong. :)

Oh, you still want to play that stupid online game you been bitching about lol. As if you winning would make you more intelligent in the medical world. What a dumbo. That is very little kids comparing, "i can piss father than you!", sark "No!, I can piss farther than you"...lol Childs play! I'm amazed why this "expert" does not see that? Maybe because he is ill in the main-brain. lol

Quote
No not at all.  However YOU made the challenge that ANYTHING I can do you can easily be as good or better.  This is an easy way to definitively test that but of course you don't want that because you don't want to be wrong (again!).

Well is true. lol I just don't want you to cry when I beat you. But it says a lot why you are stuck in that game. lol I don't really want to bother with it because the way you type your "evidence" and the way you express yourself, is already enough evidence that you have brain autism. :P

Quote
No not at all.  However YOU made the challenge that ANYTHING I can do you can easily be as good or better.  This is an easy way to definitively test that but of course you don't want that because you don't want to be wrong (again!).

Your brain abilities to look in to the future are weak and not worth arguing about.

Tell me the scenario it will be if I beat you in stupid game?

Tell me the scenario it will be if you beat me in your stupid game?

Now we have to play many because I have to win eventually.

So you beat me because you have been playing that game over many years, you feel cocky that you can beat everyone...as a MATER OF FACT, SHOW  YOUR SCORE REGARDING OTHER PLAYERS? I epxect for you to be in fisrt place! lol

Quote
Immunocompromised is not the same as being born with weak immunity. :) 

Instead of giving that stupid smiley face, why don't you expand further on your claims!

Quote
Awesome.  See the discussion is about "You are afraid to discuss that medicine does cure illness in the immunocompromised" and you just illustrated that perfectly because right there, in that sentence you showed that you are completely UNABLE to talk about the point.  You had to switch to a different point. :) :) :) :) :) :)

Well it also depends on my language. If your stupid ass brain keeps on saying that I should speak ENGLISH, what makes you think that I was 100% converting my mental neuron movement to 100% ENGLISH fluently!

My point was/is that there is NO pill NO vaccination that is 100% effective FOR EVERYONE!

I already asked you the cure for the following:

There is no cure for the flu virus.
There is no cure for depression.
There is no cure for OCD.
There is no cure for ADD.
There is no cure for obesity.
There is no cure for insomnia.
There is no cure for dandruff.
There is no cure for bone-loss.
There is no cure for drug addiction. (in fact, taking medicinal drugs promotes more drug addiction)
There is no cure for internet addiction.
There is no cure for sexual addiction.

And your stupid self did not mentined any prescriptions! lol

The rest of your answers are crap (like they have always being) when I take the time to read them....look at this dumbo

Quote
What do you want to talk about concerning heart disease rates?  It's actually a pretty broad topic.  Didn't you know that? :)

The dumb ass says that heart disease cannot be put in a graph because is to broad! lol Since in order to see heart disease, one needs to put it in a graph to understand it. lol

I showed the graph about heart disease made by others that are keeping track and this guy is trying to say that the graph does not exist because heart disease is very broad! lol....what does that mean? = blinded by ego = psychotic mind.

Nuff said. lol 8)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 30, 2015, 07:12:58 AM
You
Hold on a second you were absolutely wrong once again and you don't admit it?  You claimed that I think "I am the expert about everything." and every time you've said something stupid like this I've agreed that I am not "the expert on everything" and you can never say you were wrong for thinking that.  Seems like you're the one with the problem here. :)
Quote
you said that getting the flu shot prevents the flu more than the infected person coughing/sneezing inside his/her teacher.
I have no idea what that means in English.  I've never discussed sneezing inside (or outside) peoples teachers. :)
Quote
you still claim that taking medicine for viruses is way better than preventing the virus from entering the body in the first place
Probably not, but as usual your problem is that you don't want to use words the same way they are used in medical science.  Vaccines are medicine but not all medicine treats all diseases equally.  Vaccines are as born out by the ebola outbreak are generally the best preventative measure.
Quote
I already told you, as others, that vaccinations do work a certain extent
Not the question you were asked.  The question was about vaccines PREVENTING disease.  Are they preventative measures.  If they do PREVENT disease then please say: "Yes they prevent disease".   Clearly in every normal English usage of the term they would be considered this but as you are incapable of self-criticism you are not capable of admitting this. :)
Quote
That is clear as bottled water. What you fail to understand is those SIDE EFFECTS!
For the vaccines that we give the majority of people, for the vast majority of those who get them there are no measurable side effects.  The most significant is GBS anything else has to be far more rare than GBS otherwise it would show up in epidemiology. 
Quote
But whatever, your stupid mind just want to be right about whatever you say.
The only person claiming they are right about everything and is unwilling to entertain contrary evidence is you. :) :) :)
Quote
Oh, you still want to play that stupid online game you been bitching about lol. As if you winning would make you more intelligent in the medical world.

Just so people can see how stupid you are.  I'll just re-quote the paragraph you are responding to:

Quote from: someone smarter than Joel
...and you keep not providing a useful definition of the term but then keep demanding that medicine "cure" things.  Again you refuse to discuss this because you don't want to be wrong.  As soon as you define the term it will either be easy to show that your definition is inconsistent or that your position is wrong. :)

Notice it has nothing to do with playing a game.  It's that you keep demanding we talk about "cures" but you keep refusing to define the term and keep misusing medical terms.  :)  Anyway back to games...Again it was YOU AND ONLY YOU who said that you could be equal to or better than me in anything intellectual.  Are you saying that's not true now? :) :)
Quote
Well is true.
The challenge won't go away but I suppose making up excuses is easier....
Quote
lol I just don't want you to cry when I beat you.
Oh there's an excuse. :)
Quote
I don't really want to bother with it because the way you type your "evidence"
Oh there's another excuse. :)
Quote
Your brain abilities to look in to the future are weak and not worth arguing about.

..and another excuse. :)
Quote
Tell me the scenario it will be if I beat you in stupid game?
Then your opinion that you are equal to or better than me in anything intellectual would be supported.
Quote
Now we have to play many because I have to win eventually.
Three games should suffice but if you want to play more there's room for discussion.  Also you don't have to win eventually.  It's not about luck.
Quote
So you beat me because you have been playing that game over many years,
...and because you are not my intellectual better in everything :)  Which would make you wrong about this thing you boast about but never can seem to put your money where your mouth is. :)
Quote
you feel cocky that you can beat everyone.
Definitely not.  The reason I chose this is that it is a pure intellectual skill, it is easy to play over the internet, the results are entirely unambiguous and it can be arranged so that the results are public and so it's hard for you to cheat. :)
Quote
Instead of giving that stupid smiley face, why don't you expand further on your claims!
It's not a claim.  It's just the definition of a term.  Someone who is immunocompromised is not the same as someone who was born with a weak immune system.  Are you saying you don't know what immunocompromised means?
Quote from: Someone smarter than Joel
Awesome.  See the discussion is about "You are afraid to discuss that medicine does cure illness in the immunocompromised" and you just illustrated that perfectly because right there, in that sentence you showed that you are completely UNABLE to talk about the point.  You had to switch to a different point.
Quote
Well it also depends on my language.
Nope.  You avoided the question and started talking about something entirely different.  Evidence is further compounded because you are still doing it right now.
Quote
There is no cure for
But you refuse to define "cure".  Again since you deliberately choose to use words in ways that are not they way they are used in English and/or in medicine.  You need to define this before anything can be discussed.  Even a terribly stupid person like yourself should be able to understand this :)
Quote
The dumb ass says that heart disease cannot be put in a graph because is to broad!
No what I said was that the subject of increasing heart disease is broad and since you can't seem to say what it is you want to talk about.  I'll assume, for now that you don't know what you're talking about.   When you can come up with a more specific subject I'll be happy to address it.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on March 31, 2015, 01:14:19 AM
Aluminum Adjuvants Are Falsely Assumed Safe

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/03/29/vaccine-adjuvants-brain-effects.aspx
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on March 31, 2015, 01:39:50 AM
Aluminum Adjuvants Are Falsely Assumed Safe

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/03/29/vaccine-adjuvants-brain-effects.aspx (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/03/29/vaccine-adjuvants-brain-effects.aspx)


The ads on that page seem to be targeted at a very special audience. Coincidence?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 31, 2015, 03:31:39 AM

The ads on that page seem to be targeted at a very special audience. Coincidence?

The sites motto is "take control of your health".   ;)

Very special audience? Black? White? Young? Old? Religious? Atheist? Men? Women?   

What is so 'special' about the audience of that site?

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 31, 2015, 04:21:16 AM
http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/vaccinetable.html


Its funny. In the 3rd column of the the 'Vaccine Injury table' on the site above (hrsa.gov) it says "Time period for first symptom or manifestation of onset or of significant aggravation after vaccine administration"


But according to DR Sark, timing has nothing to do with determining a vac injury.   ::)   Remember when he got all over my case on that a couple weeks ago? ;) ::)

Well it seems to be a big factor in determining a vac injury.  ;)

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on March 31, 2015, 05:15:56 AM
The Case Against Aluminum in Vaccines - Dr. Suzanne Humphries

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/03/31/aluminum-vaccines.aspx

Please see both movies within the page.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 31, 2015, 05:46:24 AM
You Warriors for Truth are doing a splendid job!

Here is a factual documentary  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAMYAoiCSsI)which shows historically
how the Medical Industry in the U.S. became corrupted
by the Love of Money.  In the battle of the Allopaths vs.
the Empirics, Big Money bought the Industry and assumed
full control.  As is always the case, the People were/are
screwed.

Oh, by the way, in response to the 'Targeted Audience"
question above:  the targeted audience are those who
are still able to Think, Reason and Make Decisions which
are inspired by Truth.  In the America of today, this is a
relatively small audience...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on March 31, 2015, 09:22:44 AM
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/03/29/vaccine-adjuvants-brain-effects.aspx
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/03/31/aluminum-vaccines.aspx

Dude they cannot be smart if they are girls! lol.

Aside from my lame joke, they remind me of my mom, which wants me to live longer and would give me her food even if she was to starve.

What that tells me is that moms don’t want money for the health of their kids, but just truth! Oh! wait Obama wants to say something... “what’s Monica Lewinsky number bro?”

lol, I saw both videos and very eye opening. We need a slow-mo version of them. :). But thanks smart ladies.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 31, 2015, 12:15:40 PM
[/b]But according to DR Sark, timing has nothing to do with determining a vac injury.   ::)   Remember when he got all over my case on that a couple weeks ago? ;) ::)
Out of curiosity how many times did you fail stats?  My guess: All of them.

If you have a disease with a well understood correlation between symptoms and onset then you can determine the likelihood of a trigger event occurring in a particular period.   However if you don't have a disease with a well understood correlation between symptoms and onset then the information isn't going to help you do very much.  You weren't attempting to correlate a disease with an event.  You were trying to correlate an event with a bunch of symptoms with dubious reporting.
Quote
Well it seems to be a big factor in determining a vac injury.  ;)
It's worth noting that this chart was designed to help people apply for compensation under NCVIA.  Which if you expended even a microscopic amount of effort you would realize that the judges have explicitly stated the opposite of what you are saying.  See PAFFORD v. SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES

TL;DR - You're reading the chart backwards - what a great metaphor for your whole approach to thinking. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 31, 2015, 12:19:26 PM
I saw both videos
Did you read the papers?  Nope. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on March 31, 2015, 02:12:30 PM
You Warriors for Truth are doing a splendid job!
But none of them are brave enough to say: "This is strong evidence". :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 31, 2015, 11:57:06 PM
Especially for Sarkeeeezzzzz:

His condition of solitary within his Matrix need not be
terminal.  With effort he may one day open his eyes
and ears.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 01, 2015, 02:24:04 AM
His condition of solitary within his Matrix need not be terminal.
I'm not sure where, in your troll-like mind you imagine me to be but as I am here and you are not.  I can speak with considerably more authority on what's where I am.  People, where I work and in the larger community have real data derived from actual experiments, people understand probability theory to the point of being able to quantify how likely they know what they know and it's this willingness to embrace indeterminacy which betrays people who really understand the world around them.

If you and everything you post here is representative of wherever you imagine yourself to be. I'll say this much: The knowledge is perennially weak, shallow, polarized, frequently misunderstood and the people like yourself, magluvin, et al are duplicitous, infantile, credulous and don't have much in the way of courage of their convictions.  In that way it resembles a mob than a community. :)

So from here, where the grown-ups are I can say with some certainty that what you claim to offer is about as attractive to an adult as a child asking to come play in the mud.  We might do it to humor them or to keep them from hurting themselves but it really has nothing to offer in and of itself. :)

I'm sure you want to now write a little homily about how what you offer is the truth (or Truth).  However it's painfully clear that you or at least the persona you parade around here hasn't the slightest idea of how to determine what's true and what is not. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 01, 2015, 03:25:52 AM
That tree in the Buddha post looks black as does its leaves.  Are you suggesting that it was sprayed with Roundup?
If not, what point were you attempting to make?

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 01, 2015, 05:18:03 AM
That tree in the Buddha post looks black as does its leaves.  Are you suggesting that it was sprayed with Roundup?
If not, what point were you attempting to make?

Bill

If that is your interpretation, then so be it.  With Pictorials there
are no restrictions on whatever thoughts come to mind.

There is Truth about Roundup (Glyphosate) and there is Truth
about seeking Truth.  We can only hope that your quest has
begun and that it will ultimately reach its destination, in the Truest
Sense
.

Quote from: S-ar-Keeee-zzzzzzzzzzz-un
Blah-blah-yada-yada-etc....  Regurgitated propagandistic
indoctrinated memorizations devoid of any rational thought
or comprehension.  A full-fledged Matrix Robot who has no
individual mind or independent thoughts. Truly a very sad
exposition full of desperation and pleas for help.

Sarkey, we feel your pain and your sense of futility.  We do
hope that your mental health condition improves and that
you will find some peace in your desperate life.  Although,
it is very unlikely that will be the immediate case so long as
you choose to remain a prisoner to the Mind Control Matrix
which you cherish.  The Love of Money has an unrelenting
grip on your day to day existence.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 01, 2015, 06:33:41 AM
Quote
Did you read the papers?  Nope.

lol at this point your brain capabilities are only those a mother could love. 

Hmmm...you read the papers right...please do tell what they say?

The sarchiken getting away with lazy answer ever since birth. Yet again, another bland respond.

By now I think he is trying to justify the pills he takes a day and all of the injected toxins in his body. He has lost the battle with present logic and real world scenarios. He is more understood as a plastic surgery addict. lol
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 01, 2015, 06:46:44 AM
Quote
But none of them are brave enough to say: "This is strong evidence".

Strong evidence as oppose to your STRONG evidence? lol

Your and JB weld boy evidence! Have no match for REAL OUTSIDE YOUR IMAGINARY WORLD REAL TRUE LIFE EVIDENCE! lol

You have never given any EVIDENCE! Which by now makes everyone see your true colors. You just spend all your responses saying NO! NO! NO! NO! like a broken record. Which makes you look like a fake expert and you just like the attention that you are getting from people. A medical faker nonetheless.

You ONLY remind me of watching those "ridiculousness" videos ONLY! Not even close to watching NGEO http://braingames.nationalgeographic.com/ and I find the contenders playing there lower than average.

You are done with sarkchiken.....then next diarrhea that will come from your mouth is just a way to seek attention with no contradictory evidence what so ever. It has been that way for many pages already and it shows your true colors in the flesh. lol
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 01, 2015, 07:02:53 AM
Quote
So from here, where the grown-ups are

Where do you work, in your moms basement doing major virus strain studies?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 01, 2015, 07:12:14 AM
Strong evidence as oppose to your STRONG evidence? lol

Your and JB weld boy evidence! Have no match for REAL OUTSIDE YOUR IMAGINARY WORLD REAL TRUE LIFE EVIDENCE! lol

You have never given any EVIDENCE! Which by now makes everyone see your true colors. You just spend all your responses saying NO! NO! NO! NO! like a broken record. Which makes you look like a fake expert and you just like the attention that you are getting from people. A medical faker nonetheless.

You ONLY remind me of watching those "ridiculousness" videos ONLY! Not even close to watching NGEO http://braingames.nationalgeographic.com/ (http://braingames.nationalgeographic.com/) and I find the contenders playing there lower than average.

You are done with sarkchiken.....then next diarrhea that will come from your mouth is just a way to seek attention with no contradictory evidence what so ever. It has been that way for many pages already and it shows your true colors in the flesh. lol

JB Weld Boy?

Hey, if it is good enough for NASA and NASCAR, it is good enough for me.

You do, however, have to mix equal parts of two tubes together which may be beyond your capability at this point, so, I understand why you might not be able to use it.  They must be mixed thoroughly and completely.  Totally mixed.

Once it sets, you can drill it, tap it, grind it, turn it, and cut it to fabricate ANY part you might need.  You can even mold a rod and then run a die over it to make a bolt.  Once you have a supply of this stuff, you never need to buy any auto parts ever again.  Just fix your old, worn out ones...of course, you do need to understand a lot about mechanics to be able to do this but, if you read a lot of books, you too will be able to say...

"I fixed it myself with JB Weld.  Thanks JB Weld."

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 01, 2015, 07:25:27 AM
I have asked sarkchiken HOW DOES HE KNOW THE LONG TERM SIDE EFFECTS 100% REGARDING ANY VACCINATION WHEN THE LAB STOPS TESTING ON THE ANIMAL THAT DOES NOT LIVE ON AVERAGE 80 YEARS!?

I'm sure he knows how long any healthy pig, monkey, dog, etc (lab animal) lives. And the results come back regarding how long they tested certain animal. Obviously the dumbo can see that there are pros and cons. He can see pros and cons regarding aluminum? Since nothing is 100% safe. Like that JB weld boy tried to say that even air is toxic, or water....that is simple to understand. And by that token, WTF, means that aluminum injected in the body is 100% safe? Is that not logic, that aluminum injected in the body has to be 100% both helpful and harmful. That's 100% facts. Now if we look deeper, we can see that it is more harmful than helpful since it is only being injected to kill the intruder virus. Kill the virus as a last resort not caring what other damage it causes. Like I already said, PREVENTION IS ALWAYS BETTER THAN A MEDICINAL CURE!

How stupid is sarkchiken when he does not care if he breaks bones if a medicine can cure his bone fractures? hmmm...one crazy scientists that escaped from the mental hospital. lol

That sarkchicken is not that smart at all and he is too afraid to speak where he works at. Maybe because he is a faker medicinal "expert"?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 01, 2015, 07:40:13 AM
Quote
JB Weld Boy?

Hey, if it is good enough for NASA and NASCAR, it is good enough for me.

You do, however, have to mix equal parts of two tubes together which may be beyond your capability at this point, so, I understand why you might not be able to use it.  They must be mixed thoroughly and completely.  Totally mixed.

Once it sets, you can drill it, tap it, grind it, turn it, and cut it to fabricate ANY part you might need.  You can even mold a rod and then run a die over it to make a bolt.  Once you have a supply of this stuff, you never need to buy any auto parts ever again.  Just fix your old, worn out ones...of course, you do need to understand a lot about mechanics to be able to do this but, if you read a lot of books, you too will be able to say...

"I fixed it myself with JB Weld.  Thanks JB Weld."

Sir not all epoxies are 50/50 % mix. And some epoxies are flexible and others are brittle....some are in between. Even some gaskets cure in the exposure of air and others cure in the lacking of air.....blah blah blah.

Quote
Once you have a supply of this stuff, you never need to buy any auto parts ever again.

I need a new car battery.

This is getting stupid bill...stop believing that your JB weld fix is something big. You know you need replacement engine piston o-rings when worn out. Or lifter springs when they wear out. Or bearings for the engine camshaft. Your fix is crap compared to the engineering if you want to hear the obvious truth! lol So please STOP believing that's something HUGE achievement already! lol

And that mentality is applied to vaccinations! C'mon man!

JB weld a freaking flu virus strain?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 01, 2015, 01:58:49 PM
Sarkey, we feel your pain
You couldn't let barely one word of my response remain.  Must have really got your goat.  Thanks for letting me know. :)  You can return to making mud pies now.  We'll call you when the hot dogs are ready. :)
]Hmmm...you read the papers right...please do tell what they say?
I read the first three mentioned.  Any chance you can tell me something interesting about those three?  Cur. Med. Chem, Ann. Med. and J. Inorg Chem. respectively.  I'll give you one more post to see if you can come up with a single useful criticism of them. :)  Then I'll mention a few things that are peculiar about them.
Quote
The sarchiken getting away with lazy answer ever since birth. Yet again, another bland respond.
You people should start a video show.  I'd definitely watch your crazy.  So let's get this straight you're NOT lazy because you read a Mercola post and swallowed without even thinking once, with no care at all to the research behind it.  I read the papers and point this out and I'm lazy?  I think from now on we just have to assume that when you say "lazy" what you mean in English is "hard working". :)
Strong evidence as oppose to your STRONG evidence?
The fact that people like yourself seem very convinced of various things but find it impossible to say "This is strong evidence" that is pretty much the definition of "gullible". :)
Quote
You have never given any EVIDENCE!
Not true.  I've linked or cited several studies here.  I've also provided a fair amount of information concerning infectious diseases and statistics.  As always if there's a specific thing that I say that you need a reference to then all you have to do is say: "Hey you said <mention specific text> can you provide a reference?".  So if there's a reference for some specific thing I said that you want and it's not here it's probably because you didn't ask.  Like SeaMonkey and Magluvin you are not even slightly interested in ideas that are contrary to your own.  So why would I bother posting links that you would never read?
I have asked sarkchiken HOW DOES HE KNOW THE LONG TERM SIDE EFFECTS 100% REGARDING ANY VACCINATION WHEN THE LAB STOPS TESTING ON THE ANIMAL THAT DOES NOT LIVE ON AVERAGE 80 YEARS!?
Perhaps you need to calm down a bit? Go look at some web pages that never question your presuppositions that always makes you feel better.  Some deep breaths.  Ok now lets talk about your nonsense...
i) As already discussed you're raising an arbitrary standard of evidence.  Virtually nothing can be demonstrated 100%.
ii) An awful lot of the reactions the human body has to things can be models as a dose/response relationship.  Hence test animal age is not necessarily relevant.
iii) Animal models are to determine certain kinds of toxicity.   Other things we look at known intake or background levels and epidemiology.
Quote
Like I already said, PREVENTION IS ALWAYS BETTER THAN A MEDICINAL CURE!
...except when non-medicinal preventative measures result in a higher rate of infection/adverse effects than medicinal prophylaxis.  Which is the case for most vaccine preventable illnesses.
Quote
he is too afraid to speak where he works at.
I'm just not interested in talking to you about it.  There's nothing in it for me.  Now if you play me some games of go then I'd consider at least telling you my occupation.
Quote
Maybe because he is a faker medicinal "expert"?
The only things I've claimed is that I know more than you - that hardly makes me an expert.  Many rocks and plants know more about what I'm talking about than you do.


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: kEhYo77 on April 01, 2015, 08:04:06 PM
A groundbreaking new drug safety study published in the open access journal PLoS and titled, "Adverse Drug Reactions of Spontaneous Reports in Shanghai Pediatric Population," has revealed for the first that that 42.5% of all reported adverse drug reactions occurring in 2009 in a Chinese pediatric population (Shanghai, pop of 17 mil) were caused by vaccines, with reactions as severe as anaphylaxis and death.


42% of Drug Reactions Are Vaccine Related, Groundbreaking Chinese Study Finds (http://www.tbyil.com/42_Percent_of_Drug_Reactions_Are_Vaccine_Related_Sayer_Ji.htm)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 01, 2015, 08:08:47 PM
When considering any vaccination or any prescription medication
study the literature diligently and read all of the 'small print.'  The
hazards and warnings are well documented, even in the 'official'
information sheets/brochures.

The recently vaccinated are contagious (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOp7s3V_XfQ).

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 01, 2015, 10:13:31 PM
A groundbreaking new drug safety study published in the open access journal PLoS and titled, "Adverse Drug Reactions of Spontaneous Reports in Shanghai Pediatric Population," has revealed for the first that that 42.5% of all reported adverse drug reactions occurring in 2009 in a Chinese pediatric population (Shanghai, pop of 17 mil) were caused by vaccines, with reactions as severe as anaphylaxis and death.
Did you read the paper?  Nope.  It's interesting that people who claim to be interested in truth hate the idea of actually reading the papers involved.   SeaMonkey often comes here and claims that it's ok to expose people to propaganda because "people are capable of doing their own research" but it seems pretty clear that whatever subset of people here who are capable the vast majority actively avoid it.  So she's wrong about what happens here and probably wrong in general. :)

If you're interested in the risks of vaccines then what you want is INCIDENCE data not PROPORTIONALITY data.  You want to know how likely it is that someone will die of a vaccine and proportional data doesn't say much about that.  However if you wanted to figure out the maximal values you could do an analysis like this:

There were 3945 reports of them only 0.34% involved and ~0.001% of the cases of death/anaphylaxis were suspected to be caused by vaccines.

Since anaphylaxis happens under four hours (and in most cases is happens in minutes) and the one case of death was considered to be immediate.  It's unlikely there's much room for that number to be larger.

Assuming your population of 17 Million is correct and the age demographic breakdown of Shanghai is similar to that of China overall (14%) then the pediatric population of Shanghai is probably around 2380000.  Hence your maximal likelihood of anaphylaxis or death in getting vaccinated (in Shanghai) is no more than 5 in 2380000 ~ 1 in 476000.

In other words including every other accidental, deliberate and co-morbid cause.  Your risk in getting vaccinated is exceptionally low.  About the same as driving from LA to San Diego and back.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 01, 2015, 11:13:42 PM
Quote from: Sar-keeee-Zzzzzzz-un
...
In other words including every other accidental, deliberate and co-morbid cause.  Your risk in getting vaccinated is exceptionally low.  About the same as driving from LA to San Diego and back.

In Sarkey's world of cooked 'statistics' that is how
the thinking (using the word loosely) goes!

Absolutely no regard for long term ill effects which
may occur years down the road.  Truth takes into
account all eventualities and all causes.

The more Sarkey exposits, the deeper he reveals the
depth of his mind controlled conditioning to be.  The
conditioning has produced an inability to see simple
TruthsPrejudice and bias in abundance with every
word put to post.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 01, 2015, 11:55:05 PM
In Sarkey's world of cooked 'statistics'
Nothing "cooked" about it I showed exactly how the calculation was reached.  If you had an issue you could easily point out where the mistake is and how the calculation should be done.  But sadly in the SeaMonkey world of knowing nothing about math - you can't.  So this is really you WISHING you could find an error more than pointing one out.  :)
Quote
Absolutely no regard for long term ill effects
I have compete regard for long term effects but you would have to show me equally strong research illustrating them.  However you can't. :)  You can't even seem to dig up research that you would label "strong" in public. 

So again, based on the evidence at hand.  This is just you talking about monsters under your bed. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on April 02, 2015, 12:16:41 AM
Nothing "cooked" about it I showed exactly how the calculation was reached.  If you had an issue you could easily point out where the mistake is and how the calculation should be done.  But sadly in the SeaMonkey world of knowing nothing about math - you can't.  So this is really you WISHING you could find an error more than pointing one out.  :)I have compete regard for long term effects but you would have to show me equally strong research illustrating them.  However you can't. :)  You can't even seem to dig up research that you would label "strong" in public. 

So again, based on the evidence at hand.  This is just you talking about monsters under your bed. :)


"I have compete regard for long term effects but you would have to show me equally strong research illustrating them.  However you can't."

Well then neither can you. :) On all the newer vacs, where are the long term studies? There cant be any because these studies need 10, 20 years even more to be sure.

Dr. Suzanne Humphries exposes myths and lies behind vaccine research at the Vaccine World SummitLearn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/049204_Vaccine_World_Summit_Suzanne_Humphries_research.html#ixzz3W6ASj149 (http://www.naturalnews.com/049204_Vaccine_World_Summit_Suzanne_Humphries_research.html#ixzz3W6ASj149)



When GMOs were becoming well known, the Japanese said, 'We will wait 10 years to see how it affects the american children. '


Only biotech-funded studies claim GMOs are safe: Independent scientists warn otherwiseLearn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/049203_GMOs_biotech_industry_propaganda_studies.html#ixzz3W6AbMq2K (http://www.naturalnews.com/049203_GMOs_biotech_industry_propaganda_studies.html#ixzz3W6AbMq2K)



World-famous scientist Jane Goodall condemns GMO food and fraudulent industry 'science'Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/049206_Jane_Goodall_GMOs_industry_science.html#ixzz3W6AhetWv (http://www.naturalnews.com/049206_Jane_Goodall_GMOs_industry_science.html#ixzz3W6AhetWv)




San Diego sues Monsanto for poisoning environment and wildlife with toxic chemicalsLearn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/049205_Monsanto_chemicals_San_Diego_Bay_environmental_lawsuit.html#ixzz3W6AmtP00 (http://www.naturalnews.com/049205_Monsanto_chemicals_San_Diego_Bay_environmental_lawsuit.html#ixzz3W6AmtP00)



Mags



Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 02, 2015, 01:48:57 AM

"I have compete regard for long term effects but you would have to show me equally strong research illustrating them.  However you can't."

Well then neither can you.
A couple of things....

i) My statement is a response to SeaMonkey's claim that I am ignoring something.  So your claim that I can't PROVE something to you isn't relevant to that point.   SeaMonkey's idea that there is some strong evidence for long term effects that I'm ignoring is untrue.
ii) The reason why SeaMonkey can't refute my position is probably more because he is ignorant than anything else.
Quote
On all the newer vacs, where are the long term studies? There cant be any because these studies need 10, 20 years even more to be sure.
Yawn.  Arbitrary standard of evidence - I guess that's what they teach you in...well wherever you learned to be this stupid.  As I've already said no amount of evidence can give you complete certainty.  So "to be sure" is irrelevant.

Here's fun! Can you show me any research where exposure to foreign element showed a strong correlation with a long term 10-30 year effect?  You probably won't because well...you have no idea what you're talking about.  Most of the ones I can think of are either a replicating organic - parasite (clonorchis sinensis), virus (HPV), prion (PrP)  or a large exposure to a non-replicating organic/non-organic (e.g. TCDD) or a chronic small exposure to a non-replicating organic/non-organic (e.g. lead).

So why can you find evidence of these things but not small one-time non-replicating exposure?  Hmmmm?  You don't know do you?  Well there are actually a number of reasons but one is the dose response relationship.  Incredibly small doses tend to have much smaller effects than incredibly large ones (WOW!) and small doses that do have strong effects tend to be short term.  Because chemical reactions are correlated with concentration.  A small dose of anything is going to become more dilute when you inject it into something as fluid as a human body and over time it's likely to become more so.

Replicating organics have the advantage that they can make toxins or copies of themselves from the materials in the human body.  Which is why Joel gets all these funny ideas about vaccines from his show about parasites.

So the non-replicating parts of a vaccine (everything in an inactivated vaccine) are always going to be highly unlikely to produce an illness that just pops up 20 years down the road.  The replicating parts of a vaccine (the viral parts of a live vaccine) are designed to be easily stopped by the immune system and that is something that is tested for.  If the immune system doesn't - such as in an immunocompromised person the effect is going to be the same as the disease itself and there is little chance of long term effects unless the virus itself has long term effects.   So to get a disease that just pops up 20 years down.  You need a live vaccine, for a virus that replicates heavily but asymptomatically AND has a mechanism for preserving itself like VSV, for which the immune system doesn't stop.  So even in this model you're on some shakey ground statistically.

That's not even touching the information you get from lifespan or generational studies on animals or the information you get from epidemiology from vaccines which have been around longer.

So no, you can have evidence, good evidence even against illnesses which are 20-100 years out without having actual epidemiology.   
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on April 02, 2015, 02:26:29 AM
Food for the thought: TRUTH (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 02, 2015, 03:23:36 AM
Quote from: Sssss-ar-Keeeeee-zun
...
I have compete regard for long term effects but you would have to show me equally strong research illustrating them.  However you can't. :)  You can't even seem to dig up research that you would label "strong" in public. 

So again, based on the evidence at hand.  This is just you talking about monsters under your bed. :)

Aaaahhh, the degree of desperation to be found
in your fatuous misdirections and denials is staggering!

The 'problem' is never with the math - it is always with the
cooked 'data' which is plugged and chugged.

So answer us this:  Where is the research devoted to studying
long term effects of vaccinations and medications?

It certainly isn't being done candidly by the Medical Industry
or by its principal Big Pharma.  The Love of Money will not
permit the Truth to be revealed.

Your expositions are descending to ever lower depths of
depravity Sarkey...    Readying yourself for the Passover?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 02, 2015, 03:48:06 AM
Sir not all epoxies are 50/50 % mix. And some epoxies are flexible and others are brittle....some are in between. Even some gaskets cure in the exposure of air and others cure in the lacking of air.....blah blah blah.

I need a new car battery.

This is getting stupid bill...stop believing that your JB weld fix is something big. You know you need replacement engine piston o-rings when worn out. Or lifter springs when they wear out. Or bearings for the engine camshaft. Your fix is crap compared to the engineering if you want to hear the obvious truth! lol So please STOP believing that's something HUGE achievement already! lol

And that mentality is applied to vaccinations! C'mon man!

JB weld a freaking flu virus strain?

Some epoxies are mixed by weight, and some others by volume.  You can actually make an epoxy more flexible by adding a bit more hardener, and vise versa.  The best epoxies need to be fired in a controlled oven environment.

I do not know what you have against these chemical bonding agents.  Did you know that our composite winged jet fighters use epoxy?  Did you know that the first private launch into space used epoxies in its construction? (Space Ship 1)  Did you know that the ceramic tiles on the space shuttle were attached using an epoxy?  The list goes on and on Joel.

So, all of these modern flying machines can use this stuff but you refuse to repair your car with it?  This makes no sense at all.  I mean, it is not like you are going 17,500 mph (orbital velocity) in your car...right?  So, epoxies are good enough for that but you do not trust them on your car?

You need a new battery?  How do you know?  What is wrong with it?  If the electrolyte is leaking out of the case, yes, you can repair that with JB Weld.  If your filler caps are broken or missing, yes, JB Weld can handle that too.  If your lead plates are sulfated, you can can repair that by pulsing high voltage spikes and using a chemical cleaner and adding new electrolyte.  Your battery will be good for another 5 years.

But no, you want to toss that battery away and purchase a new one.  Rather than fix what you have, you replace.  That is fine if you can afford to do that...I can't.  (I actually do not know anyone personally that can either)  So, dishwasher fan blade comes off?  Just throw it away and buy a new dishwasher.  It sounds like you are keeping the landfill folks in business all by yourself.  I prefer to repair the stuff that I have and keep it in good working order. 

But, to each his own I guess.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 02, 2015, 01:47:33 PM
The 'problem' is never with the math
How could you tell?  You are easily the most math-ignorant person here.  Perhaps tied with Magluvin but you're both even worse than Joel. :)
Quote
- it is always with thecooked 'data'
Hah, you've cornered yourself pretty badly there!

As someone who actually has investigated this kind of thing and how you are someone who knows nothing about math.  Let me let you in on a secret.  What you said is the opposite of The Truth.  Providing false data is exceedingly rare. Why?  It's pretty obvious the larger the sample in your study the less each contributes to the overall effect.  So to simply things for someone like you.  Suppose you had a study of 20 people, each one could contribute as much as 5% to the overall effect.  Vaccine safety studies have ~3000 people in them.  Meaning you would have to fabricate an awful lot of data to shift the median.

Where companies try to "cheat" is in structure and design. Your ideas about "cooking data" are the result of television and one too many potboilers. :) <- I used a 1850's word there just for you. :)
Quote
which is plugged and chugged.
You have no idea what math is.  Do you?
Quote
So answer us this:  Where is the research devoted to studying long term effects of vaccinations and medications?
Are you saying that you do not believe any studies exist that look at any health outcomes greater than 10 years for any vaccines?  Actually don't you HAVE to believe there are PUBLIC studies like this?  Didn't you say I was IGNORING some evidence?  Hmmmm...or was this just "monsters under the bed".  Gotcha. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 02, 2015, 09:47:42 PM
Quote from: Ssssss-ar-Keeeeeee-Zzzzzzzzzun
...
You have no idea what math is.  Do you?
...

Some idea.  In my day we did 'math' with paper, a pencil
and an engineering slide rule.

Your procedures today are infinitely easierPlug numbers
into a calculating machine and let it chug.

Doing 'math' has gotten to be almost effortless and as a
consequence 'brain rot' has become a major affliction.

Your thoughts are pure desperation Sarkey!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 02, 2015, 10:15:15 PM
Quote
Doing 'math' has gotten to be almost effortless and as a consequence 'brain rot' has become a major affliction.
Spoken like someone who never had to do any real math.

Why?  Because people who don't do math professionally - frequently mistake mathematics with CALCULATION.  They are in fact different things.   The only thing that machines today do is the part that didn't require any real intelligence anyway.

The era you describe was fraught with error prone manual calculations, short cuts because data sets were so small.  You couldn't even run Bayesian methods on anything but the smallest, simplest systems.   Not to mention that outside of places with arbitrary amounts of staff you would always be cutting corners in terms of which cases to analyze and what sampling methods to use.  It was because of a LACK of technology that the Literary Digest poll catastrophically miscalled the 1936 presidential election.  It's because we have what we have today that Nate Silver was able to predict the outcome of 48 out of 50 states in 2008. :)
Quote
Your thoughts are pure desperation Sarkey!
Well it's been a while since you've been desperate enough to trot out that epithet.  Nice to see that you've been put out. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 02, 2015, 10:59:32 PM
Fearful that the onslaught against humanity upon Planet Earth
by means of Prescription Drugs, Vaccinations and Man Made Diseases
will be resisted by the People, GMOs have been created and are
being 'pushed' worldwide.

Fortunately, there are still some few Scientists with Integrity (http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=113283) who
are willing to reveal the Truth about Frankenstein Foods.

Those who Lead the Government of the Matrix are dead
serious about population reduction by drastic measures.

Sarkey, very unfortunately, is a brainwashed robot who supports
such programs unreservedly.  His 'brain' is naught more than a
Cooked Goose... 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 03, 2015, 12:35:22 AM
Fearful that the onslaught against humanity upon Planet Earth
by means of Prescription Drugs, Vaccinations and Man Made Diseases
will be resisted by the People, GMOs have been created and are
being 'pushed' worldwide.
If you don't tell kids a bedtime story they just make up their own.  However it's high time that you were asleep young lady. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 03, 2015, 04:39:03 AM
Quote from: Sssssss-ar-Keeeee-Zzzzzzzzzzun
...
However it's high time that you were asleep...

Aye, that is the wish of the Matrix and the principal
goal of the Media - putting the masses to sleep.

Whether it be the 'sleep' of preoccupation or the
'sleep' of death.

Your Candid Slips are right on cue.  Well programmed
Zombie that you are.  Many thanks.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 03, 2015, 05:12:02 AM
Your Candid Slips are right on cue.  Well programmed Zombie that you are.  Many thanks.
So you postulate that my mentioning of going to sleep can only, in your mind (such as it is) be interpreted as something contributing to your conspiracy delusions.  To you, it's impossible that I was using a metaphor to represent your naivete?  As illustrated by the way you describe a world of potboiler dramas and monsters under the bed. (although it wouldn't surprise me that much of what you post is fiction - even to yourself).

And all, unsurprisingly after having your ass handed to you several times over when discussing math and your quaint notion that it's the same as what you use a slide rule for. Based on your past behavior I'd guess that "many thanks" probably implies that you're kind of ticked off. Awesome!

Anytime you feel like being less transparent just let me know. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 03, 2015, 09:48:39 AM
You surely entertain man in a certain way. lol

Quote
Some epoxies are mixed by weight, and some others by volume.  You can actually make an epoxy more flexible by adding a bit more hardener, and vise versa.  The best epoxies need to be fired in a controlled oven environment.

If you think about the wold being epoxied (if that even a word), or duct taped, whe can put in a graph the items that have epoxie and those that not. Hmmmm lets think about that for a minute...

-Gorrilla glass. Most every smart phones’s touch screen is held by either double sided tape or epoxy. Aside from that, a smart phone does not have epoxie in other areas.

-Cordless drills (which I’m sort of an expert on, sort of). The only epoxy that I could see is in the commutator fan for the windings. The fan is plastic held there by an epoxy to the commutator. All of the rest of the parts are metal.

-Speakers. All speakers I have encountered have epoxy glue. The speaker coil is held with epoxy to the speaker cone. The magnets are held to the metal with epoxy. You can even see this during speaker making in china.

-Cars/Boats. The engine has no epoxy what soever nor the lever connections. The only-thing that I have noticed that have epoxy is the body panels...IOW, the outer panels in the metal frame. And lets not forget when there is an accident, it gets patched by epoxy, sanded, and panted. Or just replace the whole damaged panel.

-Computers. I have built a few computers and they don’t have epoxy!

-LCD TV. I have repaired a few LCD TV’s and have never encountered any JB weld epoxy.

-Engine radiator. I have repaired an engine radiator water leak with JB weld, and it will leak. The BEST repair was/is to weld. If the radiator is plastic, weld plastic to it. If metal, weal metal POINT BLANK! No of and whats about it.

You JB weld “fix” is aching to repair a broken glass with JB weld....lol. Thanks for the laughs.

Quote
I do not know what you have against these chemical bonding agents.  Did you know that our composite winged jet fighters use epoxy?  Did you know that the first private launch into space used epoxies in its construction? (Space Ship 1)  Did you know that the ceramic tiles on the space shuttle were attached using an epoxy?  The list goes on and on Joel.

So, all of these modern flying machines can use this stuff but you refuse to repair your car with it?  This makes no sense at all.  I mean, it is not like you are going 17,500 mph (orbital velocity) in your car...right?  So, epoxies are good enough for that but you do not trust them on your car?

You need a new battery?  How do you know?  What is wrong with it?  If the electrolyte is leaking out of the case, yes, you can repair that with JB Weld.

No you won’t...funny enough I had a minor automobile crash and it punctured my battery. JB weld did not stop the leak. The acid just peel it off like nothing.  I tried this when I was about 20 yrs old. I still got a new one from the company due to out of the factory insurance. Which is mostly a year due to items that get past the assembly line that are defective. = not all items that come out of the assembly line are 100% working as they should (assembly errors). 

Quote
If your filler caps are broken or missing, yes, JB Weld can handle that too.  If your lead plates are sulfated, you can can repair that by pulsing high voltage spikes and using a chemical cleaner and adding new electrolyte.  Your battery will be good for another 5 years.

JB weld on the caps just means your ignorance! Why? Because the acid inside a led battery fluctuates. Even though the caps may look 100% sealed to you, that is not true cause the acid level inside is not static. The same principal is in engine gas tank caps. You fail yet again sir lol.

Regarding the rest, i’m sure I could open up a battery and clean out the cells by hand from those harmful battery microcospic elements, or just replace the cells and fill the battery up.

Quote
But no, you want to toss that battery away and purchase a new one.  Rather than fix what you have, you replace.  That is fine if you can afford to do that...I can't.  (I actually do not know anyone personally that can either)  So, dishwasher fan blade comes off?  Just throw it away and buy a new dishwasher.  It sounds like you are keeping the landfill folks in business all by yourself.  I prefer to repair the stuff that I have and keep it in good working order.

lol...I’m not saying I want to throw everything away...I’m saying that JB weld fix is the lazy way! Why instead of JB welding, did NOT upgrade the part? JB weld is JUST LAZY! In todays day and age, JB weld is crap and lazy...it is not a permanent fix.

If your mentality transfers to your support of sarkcheiken, then you two seem like an odd ball. You are more of a sort of recycling type of person while sarkcheiken is more of the type that want to take your money. Maybe you are in the wrong side of the debating lol.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 03, 2015, 07:48:32 PM
Maybe you are in the wrong side of the debating lol.
Do you really think there are "sides" here?

I mean really?  Do you believe in SeaMonkey's delusional ideas about shadow governments with people who never get sick because of super secret MEGA VACCINES? Is that YOUR SIDE Joel?  Because it's pretty freaking hilarious if it is.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 03, 2015, 09:20:38 PM
Quote from: Ssssss-ar-Keeeeee-Zzzzzzzan
...
I mean really?  Do you believe in SeaMonkey's delusional ideas about shadow governments with people who never get sick because of super secret MEGA VACCINES? Is that YOUR SIDE Joel?  Because it's pretty freaking hilarious if it is.

Sarkey, you have much to learn and discover
about our World and its structure.  The Power
Pyramid is Demented and Ugly.

Apart from their Mental Illnesses, no, they do
not suffer the debilitating disease inflicted upon
the masses.  Providing their support of the MATRIX
is constant.  Wavering or regrets lead to 'termination'
by airplane or some means of 'suicide.'

Your pretense at not being aware of these things is
not convincing.  Your game is deception?  The levels
of fear and desperation which comes through in your
responses is immense.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 03, 2015, 10:44:24 PM
Mandatory Vaccinations = An Open Portal to the Immune System

Beware what enters your body through this portal:

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 03, 2015, 10:47:10 PM
Sarkey, you have much to learn and discover about our World and its structure.
Well according you there are people who get super medicine and can never get sick but according to Joel ALL medicine kills you.   Not only that but according to the mathematically stupid Magluvin I need studies that run 30 years in order to know if this super medicine of yours is safe.  However it's exceptionally unlikely that such studies have been done so clearly HE doesn't believe that your super-medicine is safe....

So in the event that I have a lobotomy and wanted to change from an evidence-based ideology to something remarkably stupid.  You need to convince me that Joel and Magluvin are wrong. :)
Quote
Your pretense at not being aware of these things is not convincing.
...said the person who knows nothing about probability theory. :)

So what you postulate here is that it's not possible that I somehow don't know about people who get super-medicine.  Apparently Joel doesn't know about the super-medicine.  He just called all medicine toxic.  Is that because you think he's a moron as well?  But you were all getting on so well. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 03, 2015, 11:27:57 PM
Nay, it is not Super Medicine nor do they themselves refer
to it as Super Medicine.  They make use of curatives and
anti-dotes which bear little resemblance to the 'medicine'
which is produced by Big Pharma for consumption by the
masses.  Secret Knowledge of the Secret Societies.

Your efforts at 'spinning' are not bearing fruit.

Passover Time.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on April 04, 2015, 01:52:44 AM

@ Mr. Sea Monkey Sir,

Posting secret secrets of the secret societies should make the secret societists very angry.
Why are you still able to post the Truths here?
Shouldn't THEY have vaccinated you already?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 04, 2015, 02:33:42 AM
Nay, it is not Super Medicine
It is well within English idiom to refer to something that performs a similar function but better as "super".  So yes you've been talking about "Super Medicine".
Quote
nor do they themselves refer to it as Super Medicine.
...and you still maintain that I can't possibly not know about your Super Medicine.
Quote
They make use of curatives and anti-dotes
Which are also words well within the English usage of the term "medicine".

So again how stupid is Joel for believing that ALL curatives are toxic and that Magluvin needs to see studies that run for at least 30 years before they would take your Super Medicine without fearing some murderous side effect?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 04, 2015, 03:03:41 AM
It is well within English idiom to refer to something that performs a similar function but better as "super".  So yes you've been talking about "Super Medicine"....and you still maintain that I can't possibly not know about your Super Medicine. Which are also words well within the English usage of the term "medicine".

So again how stupid is Joel for believing that ALL curatives are toxic and that Magluvin needs to see studies that run for at least 30 years before they would take your Super Medicine without fearing some murderous side effect?

There are, of course, serious side effects associated with the super medicine and cures.  You just do not hear about them as the Matrix keeps this very quiet.  As a matter of fact, the super medicine is totally secret and no one even knows it exists.  Big Pharma knows about it but, they do not tell any one.  Well, almost any one.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 04, 2015, 05:53:11 AM
You surely entertain man in a certain way. lol

If you think about the wold being epoxied (if that even a word), or duct taped, whe can put in a graph the items that have epoxie and those that not. Hmmmm lets think about that for a minute...

-Gorrilla glass. Most every smart phones’s touch screen is held by either double sided tape or epoxy. Aside from that, a smart phone does not have epoxie in other areas.

-Cordless drills (which I’m sort of an expert on, sort of). The only epoxy that I could see is in the commutator fan for the windings. The fan is plastic held there by an epoxy to the commutator. All of the rest of the parts are metal.

-Speakers. All speakers I have encountered have epoxy glue. The speaker coil is held with epoxy to the speaker cone. The magnets are held to the metal with epoxy. You can even see this during speaker making in china.

-Cars/Boats. The engine has no epoxy what soever nor the lever connections. The only-thing that I have noticed that have epoxy is the body panels...IOW, the outer panels in the metal frame. And lets not forget when there is an accident, it gets patched by epoxy, sanded, and panted. Or just replace the whole damaged panel.

-Computers. I have built a few computers and they don’t have epoxy!

-LCD TV. I have repaired a few LCD TV’s and have never encountered any JB weld epoxy.

-Engine radiator. I have repaired an engine radiator water leak with JB weld, and it will leak. The BEST repair was/is to weld. If the radiator is plastic, weld plastic to it. If metal, weal metal POINT BLANK! No of and whats about it.

You JB weld “fix” is aching to repair a broken glass with JB weld....lol. Thanks for the laughs.

No you won’t...funny enough I had a minor automobile crash and it punctured my battery. JB weld did not stop the leak. The acid just peel it off like nothing.  I tried this when I was about 20 yrs old. I still got a new one from the company due to out of the factory insurance. Which is mostly a year due to items that get past the assembly line that are defective. = not all items that come out of the assembly line are 100% working as they should (assembly errors). 

JB weld on the caps just means your ignorance! Why? Because the acid inside a led battery fluctuates. Even though the caps may look 100% sealed to you, that is not true cause the acid level inside is not static. The same principal is in engine gas tank caps. You fail yet again sir lol.

Regarding the rest, i’m sure I could open up a battery and clean out the cells by hand from those harmful battery microcospic elements, or just replace the cells and fill the battery up.

lol...I’m not saying I want to throw everything away...I’m saying that JB weld fix is the lazy way! Why instead of JB welding, did NOT upgrade the part? JB weld is JUST LAZY! In todays day and age, JB weld is crap and lazy...it is not a permanent fix.

If your mentality transfers to your support of sarkcheiken, then you two seem like an odd ball. You are more of a sort of recycling type of person while sarkcheiken is more of the type that want to take your money. Maybe you are in the wrong side of the debating lol.

Joel:

Are you kidding me?  You just listed another group of things that use epoxy in their manufacture and yet, it appears that you still do not believe in the power of epoxy.

For the record, when I say "JB Weld" I really mean epoxy in general.  As you have said, there are very many types and varieties specialized for certain applications.

On your leaky battery case, did you not drain the electrolyte and dry it before using the epoxy?  (It clearly says to do this prior to the application)  I have done this with batteries and, no leaks again ever.

You are right about one thing...if I could afford a new radiator, that would indeed be the way to go.  The best repair by far, no doubt.  My radiator is both aluminum and plastic and is over 20 years old so, welding it is out of the question.  So, when faced with buying a new one, for over $300.00, which I do not have, or not going to work, I chose to JB Weld it...and...(somewhat to my surprise) it survived the winter where I would start my car at -10 and heat it up to a little over 200, day after day, and, knowing the thermal coefficient of expansion of aluminum I figured this might only work for about a week.  But, it is spring and...still no leaks.  I was ready to have to redo this a bunch of times just to get through the winter...but...I didn't have to.

So, I spent $5 for the epoxy and maybe 20 minutes of my time and saved $300 AND, missed no days of work.  Not bad all considered.  I would save for a new radiator but, this vehicle has 240,00 miles on it and, that is a lot of money to dump into this.

Epoxy does have its limits and, you need to know what these are when using it.  My point is, I have saved well over $1,000 this past year alone by using it as opposed to your definition of "fixing it right".  Since I did not have the money to buy new parts, this works well for me.

My heat pump is still pumping, my radiator is still radiating,  my window still closes, my steering wheel is still attached. (just kidding)  My friend's dishwasher is still washing, etc., etc.  Sure, we can buy her a new motor and install it if the glue fails...or, we can glue it again.  It has been years and, she is still very happy.

So, there is a time and place for everything...be it vaccines or JB Weld.

The choice is yours,

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 04, 2015, 06:25:42 AM
Quote
Do you really think there are "sides" here?

I mean really?

Based on the way mother nature works, and socialism, there are always sides. From what I can gather your side of the token is that you want to MANDATORY inject vaccines to everyone no questions asked. And if we don’t take the MANDATORY vaccinations, there could be jail time. Right? You want to MANDATORY all vaccines?

Quote
Do you believe in SeaMonkey's delusional ideas about shadow governments with people who never get sick because of super secret MEGA VACCINES? Is that YOUR SIDE Joel?  Because it's pretty freaking hilarious if it is.

Is not really far fetched! I mean do you really know yourself? You cannot possibly know 100% what all governments are doing behind closed doors? That only HOLDS TRUE to the acquired knowledge that you posses, BUT that does not mean that you know EVERY SINGLE governments agenda.

Like the Hitlers followers, they thought that by choosing the guy, things would change for the better. The guy use to film tortures to watch them in his free time for enjoyment. One that I can remember is that he would tell his solders to choke the person with a wire till he went unconscious, then revived him, and then choke him unconscious again, rinse and repeat. He recorded this to watch later at his leasure. This was found presently and was not known back then mainstream...hmmmm...what kind of stuff do you not know about the present rulers agendas.

That mentality code is with in all those that hold power from the past...
http://listverse.com/2010/05/09/top-10-worst-roman-emperors/

You cannot know 100% what is going on behind closed doors. You are just focusing in your own little bubble of what you know regarding your education and the job that brings food to your table. There is no way shape and form you know outside from that.

Having said that, that is not far fetched at all. There is no way for you to know what is going on behind closed doors. Heck you kinda seem brain washed :P.

Wait when it becomes MANDATORY to implant chips in your body with their code. :P
 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 04, 2015, 06:30:03 AM
Based on the way mother nature works, and socialism, there are always sides. From what I can gather your side of the token is that you want to MANDATORY inject vaccines to everyone no questions asked. And if we don’t take the MANDATORY vaccinations, there could be jail time. Right? You want to MANDATORY all vaccines?

Is not really far fetched! I mean do you really know yourself? You cannot possibly know 100% what all governments are doing behind closed doors? That only HOLDS TRUE to the acquired knowledge that you posses, BUT that does not mean that you know EVERY SINGLE governments agenda.

Like the Hitlers followers, they thought that by choosing the guy, things would change for the better. The guy use to film tortures to watch them in his free time for enjoyment. One that I can remember is that he would tell his solders to choke the person with a wire till he went unconscious, then revived him, and then choke him unconscious again, rinse and repeat. He recorded this to watch later at his leasure. This was found presently and was not known back then...hmmmm...what kind of stuff do you not know about the present.

That mentality code is with in all those that hold power from the past...
http://listverse.com/2010/05/09/top-10-worst-roman-emperors/ (http://listverse.com/2010/05/09/top-10-worst-roman-emperors/)

You cannot know 100% what is going on behind closed doors. You are just focusing in your own little bubble of what you know regarding your education and the job that brings food to your table. There is no way shape and form you know outside from that.

Having said that, that is not far fetched at all. There is no way for you to know what is going on behind closed doors. Heck you kinda seem brain washed :P .

Wait when it becomes MANDATORY to implant chips in your body with their code. :P

But, what if the only closed doors are the ones you construct yourself?

Think about it.  You hold the key.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 04, 2015, 07:00:09 AM
Quote
Are you kidding me?  You just listed another group of things that use epoxy in their manufacture and yet, it appears that you still do not believe in the power of epoxy.

My main goal of listing those is that epoxy is like weak and a bandaid as a repair job.

Quote
For the record, when I say "JB Weld" I really mean epoxy in general.  As you have said, there are very many types and varieties specialized for certain applications.

Yes I understand but there is no better “epoxy” metal to metal than metal welding or using metal screws.

Quote
On your leaky battery case, did you not drain the electrolyte and dry it before using the epoxy?  (It clearly says to do this prior to the application)  I have done this with batteries and, no leaks again ever.

Everything dried. Plastic sanded. Acetone the plastic to clean. Applied JB weld. Battery acid will still leak...not pour drops but leak out slowly...I could see the area damped.

Quote
You are right about one thing...if I could afford a new radiator, that would indeed be the way to go.  The best repair by far, no doubt.  My radiator is both aluminum and plastic and is over 20 years old so, welding it is out of the question.  So, when faced with buying a new one, for over $300.00, which I do not have, or not going to work, I chose to JB Weld it...and...(somewhat to my surprise) it survived the winter where I would start my car at -10 and heat it up to a little over 200, day after day, and, knowing the thermal coefficient of expansion of aluminum I figured this might only work for about a week.  But, it is spring and...still no leaks.  I was ready to have to redo this a bunch of times just to get through the winter...but...I didn't have to.

I think the KEY for your success is in the winter...where things stay cold mostly year around. I only know JB weld here where I live close to the equator.

Quote
So, I spent $5 for the epoxy and maybe 20 minutes of my time and saved $300 AND, missed no days of work.  Not bad all considered.  I would save for a new radiator but, this vehicle has 240,00 miles on it and, that is a lot of money to dump into this.

I understand. Trust me, with the right tools, you can repair it if it metal or plastic....but for $5 bucks, you cannot beat that. I think I have figured it out. The JB weld is working fine for you in the cold climate.

Quote
Epoxy does have its limits and, you need to know what these are when using it.  My point is, I have saved well over $1,000 this past year alone by using it as opposed to your definition of "fixing it right".  Since I did not have the money to buy new parts, this works well for me.

I understand. I saved 3000 USD by repairing my own car when a teenager with no insurance T-boned me.

Quote
My heat pump is still pumping, my radiator is still radiating,  my window still closes, my steering wheel is still attached. (just kidding)  My friend's dishwasher is still washing, etc., etc.  Sure, we can buy her a new motor and install it if the glue fails...or, we can glue it again.  It has been years and, she is still very happy.

I think my conclusion of the story is that JB weld works miracles in real cold climates. I’ve used it here in the equator part of the earth and using it on a radiator, JB weld will not work at all. It will for a few months, but eventually it will buckle.

Conclusion, I guess JB weld works for you in cold climate.

Conclusion, JB weld will not take the broken item at 100% structurally as it first was before it got broken. lol.



 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 04, 2015, 07:18:11 AM
Quote
But, what if the only closed doors are the ones you construct yourself?

Think about it.  You hold the key.

I’m talking about reality. e.g.:

-you can only assume that your boss is “good” based on how you know him at work. He could have killed people in the past illegally and has gotten away with it till this day. He could be a cross dresser that dresses like a female in the night time out in the clubs. He could have raped an under age girl in the past. etc.

-you can be going out with a female and you think that everything is ok. She could have been raped and abused as a young person. She is confused and would want to kill you for money. All of this you find out eventually when you move in with her. Even females hide stuff from guys after many years living together.

Now everything must be looked at as a LOGISTIC way. No feelings involved. No bias involved. Just pure LOGISTICS. OK so the logic shows that THERE IS NO WAY FOR YOU TO TELL WHAT IS HAPPENING BEHIND CLOSE DOORS REGARDING THE GOVERMENT! Most likely than not, they just want your money. = taxes.

Go read about the history of money and how the bankers can print money. Any banker can print any money from a factory. You will get a little bother if you find out that a banker can ask for 100 $100 bills and 100 $1 bills...well the banker pays the factory $0.10 for the $1 and $0.50 for the $100 bills. Now they pay no taxes for that. If a person prints money today, that’s a crime....which is they made that rule to brain wash people and get away with it.

It goes real deep sir. Too deep for most. But it is true and should be learned by everyone to make a change. The same applies with medicine. Do you want MANDATORY medicine every year? And by what I have seen, it will be MANDATORY but you will have to pay for them.

Do you want MANDATORY vaccinations?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 04, 2015, 07:26:36 AM
Based on the way mother nature works, and socialism, there are always sides.
No. Based on your desire to see sides (and justify them in some naturalistic way) there are always sides.  :)
Quote
From what I can gather your side of the token is that you want to MANDATORY inject vaccines to everyone no questions asked. And if we don’t take the MANDATORY vaccinations, there could be jail time. Right? You want to MANDATORY all vaccines?
Where did you get that idea?  Certainly not from me. :)  But I guess that's because you're one of the least intelligent people here.  Most of the time I don't care what ways stupid people - like yourself - decide to kill themselves.  However it seems reasonable that for diseases with a high enough r0 (and or a high enough impact) to keep unvaccinated children away from school.  Thus protecting children with smart parents from children with stupid parents and protecting - to some degree - children from their less intelligent parents.

Now if the stupid people - like yourself became so numerous that it was endangering most people.  I would probably support some kind of law that made stupid people act in a smarter fashion.  In the same way that we require drivers to carry car insurance.  However I'm definitely not out campaigning for passing such laws.
Quote
Is not really far fetched!
So let me get this straight.  You said that ALL MEDICINE is toxic right?  Several times.  Now you're saying you believe in SUPER MEDICINE that destroys ALL DISEASES where people NEVER GET SICK and has NO SIDE EFFECTS?  You accept this without any evidence at all?

You've got to be trolling here. :)
Quote
You cannot possibly know 100%
Nobody needs to know anything 100% - please go back to kindergarten.
Quote
what all governments are doing behind closed doors?
Bayesian statistics say that governments which appear inept are much more likely to *be* inept than so hyper-efficient that they can carry on complex operations, hide significant complex operations AND still maintain a veneer of incompetency. 

Quote
Like the Hitlers followers, they thought that by choosing the guy, things would change for the better.
So Hitler was bad and because some people followed a bad guy.  Governments can do anything they want (like have relationships with alien lizard people) without most people knowing?  Uh did you ever learn logic in school?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 04, 2015, 08:34:06 AM
Quote
No. Based on your desire to see sides (and justify them in some naturalistic way) there are always sides.

WTF! Let me get this straight! I was talking about the raw mother natures way of how the animalistic socialism works...and this guy just comes over here and says NO!

Well let me throw away these peacock costume I was working on...lol...what a baboon! (based on the studies, a baboon gets higher status in a social status based on looks and actions...lol)

But based on sarkchieken, there are no sides! OK! Dum didi dum!

Quote
Where did you get that idea?  Certainly not from me. :)  But I guess that's because you're one of the least intelligent people here.  Most of the time I don't care what ways stupid people - like yourself - decide to kill themselves.  However it seems reasonable that for diseases with a high enough r0 (and or a high enough impact) to keep unvaccinated children away from school.  Thus protecting children with smart parents from children with stupid parents and protecting - to some degree - children from their less intelligent parents.

Now if the stupid people - like yourself became so numerous that it was endangering most people.  I would probably support some kind of law that made stupid people act in a smarter fashion.  In the same way that we require drivers to carry car insurance.  However I'm definitely not out campaigning for passing such laws.

I certainly don’t understand your stance VS vaccinations then:

1- do you want mandatory vaccinations?

2- do you want to blame the non-vaccinated as the main transfer of deceases?

3- do you believe that medicine is the answer?

-cure for aids?
-cure for ADD?
-cure for the flu?
-cure for obesity?
-cure for immune deficiency?
-cure for depression?
-cure for alcoholism?
-cure for drug addiction?
-cure for anorexia?
-cure for autism?
-cure for stupidity?

lol the last one got your attention right, cause your ONLY main goel is to show yourself as an-intelligent person to everyone!
Sorry to inform you, based on the evidence, you are more stupid than a dodo bird. I MEAN, WHAT IS YOUR ULTIMATE GOAL? You show no evidence, you show no credentials, YET, you feel like you KNOW EVERYTHING! That is just not world wide truth! That is just your IGNORANT in your little world “truth”.

Please do tell what your goal is with medicinal believes? (like I have not asked this before...yawn!)

Quote
So let me get this straight.  You said that ALL MEDICINE is toxic right?  Several times.  Now you're saying you believe in SUPER MEDICINE that destroys ALL DISEASES where people NEVER GET SICK and has NO SIDE EFFECTS?  You accept this without any evidence at all?

You've got to be trolling here.

Hey dumbo, all drugs kill cells. Just as people responding to you, it gets tiring after a while and you should just get ignored.

IF THE BANKERS CAN PRINT MONEY FOR CENTS< WHAT MAKES YOU THING THEY HOLD BACK THE MEDICINE TO CURE CANCER OR OTHER STUFF?

Please! is not like you are the LAST PERSON TO SEEK TRUTH! You are just a clown to me. lol

Just a simple scenario, if this earth was to die tomorrow, guess who has a first front ticket to planet mars in the space ship? I’m afraid you need to stay in earth and go extinct lol.

Quote
Nobody needs to know anything 100% - please go back to kindergarten.

OK what percentage do you know?

Quote
Bayesian statistics say that governments which appear inept are much more likely to *be* inept than so hyper-efficient that they can carry on complex operations, hide significant complex operations AND still maintain a veneer of incompetency. 

OHHHHHHH, this explains everything. This guy knows everything that goes behind closed doors in every government! Hey guys, we have a god over here. Show me the path your majesty...lol

Quote
So Hitler was bad and because some people followed a bad guy.  Governments can do anything they want (like have relationships with alien lizard people) without most people knowing?  Uh did you ever learn logic in school?

That means the bad corrupt person needs to die and set an example for EVOLUTION!

You are kind of an idiot if you don’t believe that a government leader cannot do anything he/she wishes regarding the simpleton opinions of sarkcheiken! hmmmm, let me see, sark is there to have an opinion on what is the best law for everyone when they are making decisions in their offices? lol, well I’m sad to say that sark was and never be there to make decisions in the present nor the future BUT he feels like his speaking is 100% regarding the whole universe...lol= metal issues!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 04, 2015, 08:50:01 AM
Quote from: OrBut 3000
@ Mr. Sea Monkey Sir,

Posting secret secrets of the secret societies should make the secret societists very angry.
Why are you still able to post the Truths here?
Shouldn't THEY have vaccinated you already?

There have been no 'secret secrets' of the Societies
revealed anywhere within this discussion.  Every point
that has been made thus far is available to anyone who
cares to research these issues.

THEY are vaccinating all of us upon the Planet whether we
like it or not.   Our foodstuffs, our water and even the air
we breathe are used to introduce various chemicals and
organisms into our bodies.  THEY use every possible means
at their disposal to enforce their AGENDA.

The majority are not yet able to comprehend these Truths
yet, however, in the not too distant future it shall become
very obvious to even those who may doubt.

The End is near.
 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MileHigh on April 04, 2015, 04:20:47 PM
Shout it out brother!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MileHigh on April 04, 2015, 04:31:42 PM
Musical interlude, summer of '74.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC-QlfPPC0o

Back to the end of the world.... dammit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntLsElbW9Xo
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 04, 2015, 08:34:40 PM
WTF! Let me get this straight! I was talking about the raw mother natures way of
Nope.  You were talking about sides here in the thread.  Which you COMPARED to some probably partially made up ideas about something that happens in nature.  Unless you can point to where animals other than ourselves argue about vaccine safety and efficacy then you don't have much of an argument. :)
Quote
I certainly don’t understand your stance VS vaccinations then:
Partially because you are stupid and making up sides for people to be on.  :)
Quote
1- do you want mandatory vaccinations?
This question is not usefully framed.  I've explained clearly what circumstances I consider to warrant action and what action I would consider reasonable.
Quote
2- do you want to blame the non-vaccinated as the main transfer of deceases?
Which diseases?
Quote
3- do you believe that medicine is the answer?
Define "medicine" and "the answer to what".
Quote
-cure for...
Define "cure".
Quote
lol the last one got your attention right, cause your ONLY main goel is to show yourself as an-intelligent person to everyone!
No as I said before my main goal is to have entertaining stories for my friends and then perhaps see if I can make you understand how stupid you are being.
Quote
You show no evidence
Untrue I've cited and referenced studies and have made a blanket statement that if you can point out something specifically that you would like to see a reference for I'd be more than happy to provide it.  So far you're more interested in making things up to whine about than taking advantage of that.
Quote
you show no credentials
Not necessary for the kind of argument I'm making and since you don't believe the things I'm telling you anyway why would you believe me if I said I had a PhD?  This again is just something you've made up so you can whine so more.
Quote
you feel like you KNOW EVERYTHING! That is just not world wide truth!
I've never said that I do know everything and I certainly don't feel that way.   So congratulations you agree with me. :) I do maintain that you seem to know considerably less than I do in the subjects we are discussing.
Quote
Please do tell what your goal is with medicinal believes? (like I have not asked this before...yawn!)
If you have asked that before.  Then I hope you phrased it better because I don't know what you're saying but I start to wonder if you phrase things poorly just so you can whine about my unwillingness to answer a question that is not very clear.  I mean you're going to whine about this response I expect. :)
Quote
Hey dumbo, all drugs kill cells.
Only in the sense that all water kills cells.  If that's what you mean then you should stand up and say so.

However it's SeaMonkey who claims SuperMedicine with NO SIDE EFFECTS and you seem to be saying you're on his side so....
Quote
OHHHHHHH, this explains everything. This guy knows everything that goes behind closed doors in every government!
Nope but that's not necessary to know that one hypothesis is much less likely than another.
Quote
That means the bad corrupt person needs to die and set an example for EVOLUTION!
So in other words your example was irrelevant.  Awesome. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 04, 2015, 09:40:30 PM
I would not take a vaccine if FORCED to do so by the Gov.  However, I am also the type of person that does not go around people if I am sick.  I voluntarily quarantine myself, I do not have to be forced to do so.  Too bad others are not like this which is why they would even think about vaccines (some) being mandatory.  As Sark says, at some point, for the greater good this might actually have to happen.  I just will not participate.

Just like I am not going to participate in this Obamacare scandal.  I am not going to pay any fines..opps...I mean tax, and I am not going to lose my liberties to this administration...period.  It is against my religion to do so.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 04, 2015, 10:04:29 PM
The Vaccination-Autism connection. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3P6wVUH0pc)

The vaccine formulations have changed in recent
years.  Glyphosate is causing great harm to the
environment as well as to the human body.

The Radio Frequency field emitted by personal
communications devices, tablets and laptops
has caused numerous new 'diseases.'

The combination of elements which have harmful
effects are synergistic.  It is not coincidental nor
is it accidental.  The AGENDA and the Secret Knowledge
behind it have assured that in this present critical time
such would be the case.

Aye Miles, the End is approaching.  The Ugliness increases.

Sarkey is a very busy operative.  His work is all over the web.
His Base of Operations is where?
 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: orbut 3000 on April 05, 2015, 03:14:18 AM
The most worrying aspect of the AGENDA is
that it is so badly executed and ineffective.
OTOH team Truth is even more disorganized and
can't come up with one piece of solid evidence
to prove their case.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 05, 2015, 05:10:10 AM
The Vaccination-Autism connection. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3P6wVUH0pc)
Is that strong evidence? No? So you are advising that people shouldn't read it.  Ok.  Thanks.
Quote
Sarkey is a very busy operative.  His work is all over the web.
We are legion...and this is METAL! (https://www.youtube.com/user/sarkaizen)
Quote
His Base of Operations is where?
I call down fire on morons like yourself from my secret base in the alps.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 05, 2015, 06:25:36 AM
Is that strong evidence? No? So you are advising that people shouldn't read it.  Ok.  Thanks.We are legion...and this is METAL! (https://www.youtube.com/user/sarkaizen)I call down fire on morons like yourself from my secret base in the alps.

You are in the Alps?  Damn!  All they gave me was a small cubicle in Podunk, KY.  I need a better agent.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 05, 2015, 08:23:14 PM
Quote from: OrBut 3000
The most worrying aspect of the AGENDA is
that it is so badly executed and ineffective.
OTOH team Truth is even more disorganized and
can't come up with one piece of solid evidence
to prove their case.

Au Contraire!  The AGENDA is proceeding just as those who
devised it had hoped.  Perhaps a bit behind schedule but
still accomplishing its intended purposes.

That you believe it to be "badly executed and ineffective"
verifies its impact upon your thought processes.  On the
other hand, your proclamation may be itself deception.

Truth is always at a disadvantage when it struggles against
the vast resources and multitudes of minions who advocate
for the Side of Darkness.  But, have no fear, Truth will in the
end shine through and expose all of the mendacious plots.
The proof you seek is all around you if you are able to open
your eyes.  The Mind Control Brainwashing of the Matrix is
able to cloud vision and suppress observational abilities.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 05, 2015, 10:02:25 PM
Truth will in the end shine through and
Is there any chance that your ideas of Truth will produce evidence that isn't a shit sandwich?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 05, 2015, 11:47:36 PM
The Matrix was exposed long ago (http://henrymakow.com/unsung_heroine_--_illuminati_d.html) by a very brave
Woman.

The link to her work is within the text.  Download
and study what she compiled to gain insights into
the magnitude of the Beast.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on April 06, 2015, 12:46:52 AM
Gardasil vaccine: Spain joins growing list of countries to file criminal complaints against manufacturer
Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/049256_Gardasil_HPV_vaccine_Spain.html#ixzz3WTgEytuM (http://www.naturalnews.com/049256_Gardasil_HPV_vaccine_Spain.html#ixzz3WTgEytuM)



Mags
[/color]
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 06, 2015, 03:29:49 AM
Download and study what she compiled
Is this STRONG evidence or is it a shit sandwich?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 06, 2015, 04:24:03 AM
Gardasil vaccine: Spain joins growing list of countries to file criminal complaints against manufacturer
Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/049256_Gardasil_HPV_vaccine_Spain.html#ixzz3WTgEytuM (http://www.naturalnews.com/049256_Gardasil_HPV_vaccine_Spain.html#ixzz3WTgEytuM)
More Magluvin Moronic trolling....

a) This is allegedly the complaint by one single person in Spain presumably against Merck-Sanofi Pasteur laboratories.  Not as the title of your article implies a legal action on behalf of the Spanish government.  Otherwise you might as well say "Every country joins the growing list of those suing every sue-able entity".

b) This appears to be something that is either done on behalf of SaneVax or perhaps simply fabricated by them.

c) The complaint reads like something written by someone who has never consulted a doctor.  The claimed words of the doctor are: "do a review of existing metals and minerals in your body. The test is conducted and the conclusion is that Zuriñe suffers a serious cell damage.  Presents the report of Dr. Mazzuca, extremely high levels of oxidative stress,
consistent with a stage 3 cell suffering."

It's not much of a stretch to say that all of those diagnoses are made up.  "cell damage" is utterly meaningless. You right now have cell damage.  Again we have the problem of "What the hell diagnostic would you run to come to this conclusion?" the answer is none.  Cell damage is usually diagnosed by observable things like necrosis.  If they meant "DNA damage" the diagnostic is clear but the interpretation is now worse - the number of diseases we can link to specific genes or groups of genes is actually pretty small.  Not to mention NONE of this would tell you that any of this came from an HPV shot.

"oxidative stress" is again not a diagnosis it's more of a proposed mechanism for a number of diseases.  It's also not something for which there is an obvious diagnostic.  Any diagnostic would not provide you any information linking this to HPV.

"stage 3 cell suffering" is completely made up and appears nowhere in any medical journals in English nor does it appear in the small number of Spanish journals I have access to.  Not to mention the phrase search "estadio 3 de sufrimiento celular" produces exactly ONE HIT on google - guess where. :)

Evidence suggests that this is either fabricated whole cloth or the doctor involved is a quack.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: kEhYo77 on April 06, 2015, 04:54:48 AM
THE POISONED NEEDLE
Suppressed Facts About Vaccination (http://www.whale.to/a/mcbean.html)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 06, 2015, 05:28:02 AM
THE POISONED NEEDLE
Suppressed Facts About Vaccination (http://www.whale.to/a/mcbean.html)
Don't even Cranks think Whale.to is Cranky?

Anyway, can you point out some argument in that article which is strong evidence?

No?  Well then you're just offering another bite of shit sandwich. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 06, 2015, 06:48:46 AM
Quote from: Sssss-ar-Keeeeee-Zzzzzzzun
...
... Well then you're just offering another bite of shit sandwich. :)

Sarkey!!

Your desperation keeps descending to ever lower levels.

Don't take your ineffective shillings so hard man.  Losing
is often painful to be certain, but losing control as you've
done is painful to watch.  The Charlatan reveals his true face.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 06, 2015, 07:44:41 AM
Quote from: SeaMonkey link=topic=15147.msg44508X"3#msg445083 date=1428295726
but losing control as you've done
Uh how exactly is a Spinal Tap reference "losing control"? 

The fact remains that none of you are capable of saying: "Oh this over here strongly supports X" which means regardless of what you post you're just serving up the same old shit...occasionally changing the bread.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 06, 2015, 04:09:57 PM
One thing interesting about the last few things that Magluvin shat into your wide open mouths is that they rely on an almost magical concept of medicine.  Which is ironic considering how much time he and the rest of you shit-eaters want to criticize medical science.

See normally if you're going to say "Diagnostic X implies condition Y" that's because there exists a body of established work demonstrating X correlated with Y (i.e. double-blind placebo controlled studies)  and the mechanism behind X / Y being related (usually some kind of longer theoretical work) as well as evidence establishing this mechanism ("petri-dish" science).

But when someone proposes an effect for which there exists NO DIAGNOSTIC WITH AN EXTANT BODY OF SUPPORTING WORK CORRELATING IT TO SOME DIAGNOSIS.  Not only that but you wonder how they failed math so badly.  See every outcome with the same weight of evidence ABSOLUTELY MUST be considered equally probable. Since the diagnosis A caused B has no diagnostic or mechanism which supports it - it must be equal in probability to every other A caused B which also has no evidence supporting it.  Making a differential pretty much impossible.  Which probably means they just walked in with some preconceived notion.
 
The only reason this is believable to people like yourselves is that you effectively believe that medicine is magic.  That is to say having no plausible way of getting from some set of symptoms T to some diagnosis U has no effect on the credibility of said diagnosis.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MileHigh on April 06, 2015, 04:35:05 PM
Run for the hills!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 06, 2015, 05:09:17 PM
Run for the hills!
Is the pizza really gay?  I've always thought of pizza as kind of asexual.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 06, 2015, 09:32:53 PM
This is just about the "size of it:"

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 06, 2015, 11:12:22 PM
This is just about the "size of it:"
Is that the sandwich you're offering now.  When something smells that bad, don't expect too many people to take a big bite. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on April 07, 2015, 06:49:59 PM
Don't even Cranks think Whale.to is Cranky?

Anyway, can you point out some argument in that article which is strong evidence?

No?  Well then you're just offering another bite of shit sandwich. :)

You better get some medical help, if that is the kind of sandwich you are familiar with. Who would think of such a thing? ::)   Or maybe help from a psychologist?? ;)

Well thats just stupid. Exceptionally stupid. Actually sounds ignorant. And stupid. Oh, did I say stupid? Really stupid. Uneducated talk. Stupid, stupid, and, oh yeah, stupid.  ;)   Pretty much. ;)

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 07, 2015, 07:10:45 PM
You better get some medical help, if that is the kind of sandwich you are familiar with. Who would think of such a thing?
Well, it's a) not a real sandwich b) a pretty common term - Google returns over 200,000 hits on the phrase 3) a joke from Spinal Tap which I've already referenced and of course d) people like you who spend most of their time here shitting in peoples mouths really aren't in any position to take issue.
Quote
Uneducated talk
Sorry but people who have failed stats as many times as you have don't get to use the word "uneducated".  It's a rule. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 07, 2015, 10:18:20 PM
Quote from: Sssssss-ar-Keeeeeee-Zzzzzzzzzzzun
Well, it's a) not a real sandwich b) a pretty common term - Google returns over 200,000 hits on the phrase 3) a joke from Spinal Tap which I've already referenced and of course d) people like you who spend most of their time here shitting in peoples mouths really aren't in any position to take issue.Sorry but people who have failed stats as many times as you have don't get to use the word "uneducated".  It's a rule. :)

The above will go into the annals of this forum as
a Desperately Lame Defense.  Struggling to stay
afloat in the discussion, Sarkey resorts to the
unimaginable.  For an erudite "intellectual" it is
equivalent to heresy.

The face he shows is not a pretty one...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 07, 2015, 10:41:37 PM
Clearly my choice of term aggravates you - thanks for the confirmation. :)
Struggling to stay afloat in the discussion
Sorry.  Considering that "discuss" is almost the opposite of what you do I think I'm going to have to give you a yellow card there.  You preach, preen, posture (like the post you just made) but actually engage on an issue?  Unlikely. :)
Quote
Sarkey resorts to the unimaginable.
Unless everyone else here is a troll or the same person trolling I simply do not believe that people take you seriously. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on April 08, 2015, 12:19:35 AM
Well, it's a) not a real sandwich b) a pretty common term - Google returns over 200,000 hits on the phrase 3) a joke from Spinal Tap which I've already referenced and of course d) people like you who spend most of their time here shitting in peoples mouths really aren't in any position to take issue.Sorry but people who have failed stats as many times as you have don't get to use the word "uneducated".  It's a rule. :)

"Sorry but people who have failed stats as many times as you have don't get to use the word "uneducated".  It's a rule."


Its a rule?  Show me strong proof of this rule, or are you just making that up also? How many googles can you get on that one? ;)

Just typical shill potty mouth.  Very typical. ;) 'Trying' to make people look bad using a foul mouth.  What are you, like, 12? ;)

Mags



Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on April 08, 2015, 12:30:23 AM
Clearly my choice of term aggravates you - thanks for the confirmation. :)Sorry.  Considering that "discuss" is almost the opposite of what you do I think I'm going to have to give you a yellow card there.  You preach, preen, posture (like the post you just made) but actually engage on an issue?  Unlikely. :)Unless everyone else here is a troll or the same person trolling I simply do not believe that people take you seriously. :)

"Clearly my choice of term aggravates you - thanks for the confirmation"

Oh and we are all thrilled with your shilling accomplishment.  ::)   Hey. Maybe you will get a bonus in your next check for that one. ::) ;)

"Unless everyone else here is a troll or the same person trolling I simply do not believe that people take you seriously."

Oh, seriously Mr Kettle? ::) ;)     Seamonkey made this thread. If we look back, the major troll is you. ;)

"I simply do not believe that people take you seriously"

Well you must take him very seriously. You are hear day in and day out shilling the shill.  Theres some strong evidence for ya.

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 08, 2015, 12:32:57 AM
Its a rule?  Show me strong proof of this rule, or are you just making that up also?
Are you admitting that you failed stats?  I guess I nailed you there. You also seem to have no idea about the intrinsic comic irony of saying "it's a rule" on the internet.
Quote
Just typical shill potty mouth.  Very typical. ;)
Are you trying to tell me that shills generally talk in some way?  How would you even know that? LOL! :)
Quote
'Trying' to make people look bad using a foul mouth.
Dude if you weren't constantly attempting to shit into peoples mouths then I would have absolutely no reason to say that you do but time and time again you post shit with the intent that people swallow it...and here we are! :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 08, 2015, 12:45:16 AM
Seamonkey made this thread. If we look back, the major troll is you. ;)
Trolls, using the classic internet definition are people who try to stir up trouble but generally do not directly engage in serious discussion (but will pause to cast aspersions).  So posting countless links which are all just nonsense qualifies.  However me sitting here and calmly asking for people to provide strong evidence for their point is not.

You in particular deliberately and specifically said that you didn't want to hear whats wrong with a very stupid article you posted.  I think *THAT* puts you pretty firmly in the "troll" camp.

Also again you generally just make broad statements like "the troll is you" wheras I have provided a definition and clear evidence indicting you (and Sea Monkey).  See the difference? :)
Quote
Well you must take him very seriously. You are hear day in and day out shilling the shill.
You seem to be calling Sea Monkey a shill in that sentence.  If you think I spend a lot of time here then I expect that it takes you far longer to compose your posts than it does for me. :)
Quote
Theres some strong evidence for ya.
Evidence of what?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on April 08, 2015, 12:46:03 AM
Are you admitting that you failed stats?  I guess I nailed you there. You also seem to have no idea about the intrinsic comic irony of saying "it's a rule" on the internet.Are you trying to tell me that shills generally talk in some way?  How would you even know that? LOL! :)Dude if you weren't constantly attempting to shit into peoples mouths then I would have absolutely no reason to say that you do but time and time again you post shit with the intent that people swallow it...and here we are! :)

Twist. ::)   

You are the definition of shill. Thats how I know. ;)   Google it. ;)


Dr. Wakefield was right: The MMR vaccine-autism connectionLearn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/049273_MMR_vaccine_autism_Andrew_Wakefield.html#ixzz3WfMsd7uS (http://www.naturalnews.com/049273_MMR_vaccine_autism_Andrew_Wakefield.html#ixzz3WfMsd7uS)


Mags

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 08, 2015, 02:33:23 AM
You are the definition of shill. Thats how I know.
Argument by special definition. :)  Apparently you didn't get honors in logic either. :)
Quote
Dr. Wakefield was right
Didn't you post that already?  Yawn.  As already demonstrated, if you believe Hooker's reanalysis you MUST BELIEVE WAKEFIELD WAS WRONG again if you don't understand how that is.  All you need to do is ask but you won't - in fact if you're being your usual troll self you'll make sure it's clear that you DON'T ask what's wrong with your posts.

Hmmmm.....

posts inflammatory articles...check
won't discuss the issues...check
but WILL cast aspersions...check
absolutely refuses to know any contrary information...check

You may have failed logic, math and just about any other intellectual exercise but you just got a 4.0 in trolling. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on April 08, 2015, 03:20:54 AM
Argument by special definition. :)  Apparently you didn't get honors in logic either. :)Didn't you post that already?  Yawn.  As already demonstrated, if you believe Hooker's reanalysis you MUST BELIEVE WAKEFIELD WAS WRONG again if you don't understand how that is.  All you need to do is ask but you won't - in fact if you're being your usual troll self you'll make sure it's clear that you DON'T ask what's wrong with your posts.

Hmmmm.....

posts inflammatory articles...check
won't discuss the issues...check
but WILL cast aspersions...check
absolutely refuses to know any contrary information...check

You may have failed logic, math and just about any other intellectual exercise but you just got a 4.0 in trolling. :)


"Didn't you post that already?  Yawn."

Oooo, more twist.   Yeah sure. Pawn it off as already posted so others may not bother reading it. ;)   Nice try sandwich boy. ;)

Nope. Thats a fresh one.  Have you had some statins today? ;) Amnesia? Memory loss? :P


" if you believe Hooker's reanalysis you MUST BELIEVE WAKEFIELD WAS WRONG"

Says who?  You? You with sandwich dribble on your chin?  Yeah sure.  Oh, here is a napkin for that chin. ;D

Mags


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 08, 2015, 03:48:13 AM
Nope. Thats a fresh one.
About as fresh as that sandwich you keep offering. :)

Effectively it's nothing more than "Hooker demonstrates wakefield is correct" which requires misunderstanding and misreading both papers.
Quote from: Me
if you believe Hooker's reanalysis you MUST BELIEVE WAKEFIELD WAS WRONG
Quote from: Someone who keeps offering shit sandwiches
Says who?
Are you asking for me to show you whats wrong with that article?  HmmMMMMMmmmm?  Probably not but it would be interesting if you did something other than just shit all over this board. :)

...but I'm pretty sure you'll chicken out - after all you got trashed last time you "got in the ring" with me and had to go back to back to avoiding the question.  :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on April 08, 2015, 07:06:29 PM
About as fresh as that sandwich you keep offering. :)

Effectively it's nothing more than "Hooker demonstrates wakefield is correct" which requires misunderstanding and misreading both papers.Are you asking for me to show you whats wrong with that article?  HmmMMMMMmmmm?  Probably not but it would be interesting if you did something other than just shit all over this board. :)

...but I'm pretty sure you'll chicken out - after all you got trashed last time you "got in the ring" with me and had to go back to back to avoiding the question.  :)

"About as fresh as that sandwich you keep offering."

I have offered no such sandwich. You are the first to bring up these sandwich favorites of yours in this thread. And if everything is just a joke to you, then why should anybody take your word for anything at all? ;)


"Are you asking for me to show you whats wrong with that article?"

Now where would you get that idea? Show me where Ive asked such a thing. Are you hearing little voices? Doubled your dose of statins today? Mixed with a little xarelto? 

Shills. Always putting word in our mouths. As can be seen by this fine gentleman throughout this thread. Mind games. Hows that workin for ya? ::)


"Probably not but it would be interesting if you did something other than just shit all over this board. :) "

Sorry Sarko. You are outnumbered here when in terms of who thinks who is shitting all over this board. You have replied to most all of the posts here by other people. And a great part of what you post is insults, sarcasm, hear say, and your favorite sandwiches. You probably have the most posts here of anyone. Theres some stats for ya. Shall we count them?? Your sandwich is crumbed(with 'your' favorite sauce of course) all over this thread.

You make it look as if all of natural news articles are made up. I fail to see that anyone here sides with you on that, apart from MH and Marke. But that is expected from that small crowd. Always tryin to make something good look as bad as possible in hopes the presenter will run off before the rabbit is pulled from the hat. And who knows what goes on in pm with these fellows. I know my inbox is stuffed somewhat with MHs msgs. One of them was in reference to a thread conversation that had to do with belief in God. He Told me in that msg about a girl in the news that had some ailment, something, and tried to make me feel feel something against God over it all. Kind of strange. An atheist trying to pit my feelings toward God by example.  ::)


"after all you got trashed last time you "got in the ring" with me and had to go back to back to avoiding the question. "

Lol. Yeah sure. I dont care for your questions. I dont consider you an authority here. You are the least of my problems. If I take time off from here, unlike you here with your sandwiches, then thats what Im doing. Other things in life.  Heck. Making a ham sandwich is more important than hangin out with you all day.  Lol, that must be why you are here all the time. No friends. Understandable. ;)

Mags

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: kEhYo77 on April 08, 2015, 07:35:37 PM
I agree Mags!
Sarky is shit-shilling the board that is why I put him on ignore list ;)
And he is the only one there, go figure...

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 08, 2015, 07:36:44 PM
Quote from: Magical Me
About as fresh as that sandwich you keep offering.
I have offered no such sandwich.
Well stop offering shit for people to swallow then. :)
Quote from: All of Me
Are you asking for me to show you whats wrong with that article?
Now where would you get that idea?
It seemed like a challenge for evidence but you're still not interested in any ideas contrary to your own.  Are you? :)
Quote from: Nothing but me
Probably not but it would be interesting if you did something other than just shit all over this board. :)
Sorry Sarko.
So you are going to keep squatting here...and then slapping it between two slices of bread?
And a great part of what you post is insults, sarcasm, hear say
"hearsay" is usually one word by the by.

Anyway If that's true - and it isn't really - what were you expecting when you clearly and deliberately REFUSE any offer to counter your own shitty views.  When you actively refuse any offer of demonstrating where you're wrong.   You are effectively saying that you would rather talk about how you're being an asshole.
You make it look as if all of natural news articles are made up.
Hardly.  In the places where the contradict the body of scientific work they are a combination of fabrication, self-delusion and ignorance.  One that you swallow without even the tiniest amount of skepticism without even a microscopic desire to read the source material.  In the places where they say things like "I like grapes" - I'm sure that's pretty accurate.
Quote from: Me Me Me Me Me
after all you got trashed last time you "got in the ring" with me and had to go back to back to avoiding the question.
I dont care for your questions.
More accurately you don't care for any question that requires you to have a substantial reason for believing the shit you post.  So this isn't really about me.  It's about the sandwich you keep trying to stuff down peoples throats.

So yeah, you chickened out again.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 08, 2015, 07:38:52 PM
I agree Mags!
If you rub his back any harder you might want to adjourn to a NSFW forum. :) 

Keep it PG-13. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on April 11, 2015, 11:06:17 PM
Heart doctor admits Western medicine will never cure heart disease. On the next NaturalNews Talk Hour, heart patients will finally hear the truth about reversing heart disease; how vaccines dangers can threaten heart health and, more importantly, what you need to know about reversing cardiovascular disease symptoms. If you're concerned about your heart - do NOT miss this program.

Visit: http://www.naturalhealth365.com (http://www.naturalhealth365.com) and enter your email address for show details + FREE gifts!
Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/049322_Dr_Jack_Wolfson_vaccine_dangers_heart_doctor.html#ixzz3X2M2aieR (http://www.naturalnews.com/049322_Dr_Jack_Wolfson_vaccine_dangers_heart_doctor.html#ixzz3X2M2aieR)
[/color]



Paul Offit's vaccine lies deconstructed: A mind-blowing interview with Dr. Suzanne Humphries
Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/049320_Suzanne_Humphries_Paul_Offit_vaccine_lies.html#ixzz3X2KrESlw (http://www.naturalnews.com/049320_Suzanne_Humphries_Paul_Offit_vaccine_lies.html#ixzz3X2KrESlw)




Mags
[/color]
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 12, 2015, 12:53:54 AM
Natural News is not a source I would cite as being credible.

But, that is just me...you can, of course, do whatever you want.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 12, 2015, 01:16:23 AM
Speaking of Credibility:
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 12, 2015, 01:41:53 AM
Heart doctor admits Western medicine will never cure heart disease. On the next NaturalNews Talk Hour
Soooooo....you're just flat out advertising this website full of morons? (To avoid the Magluvin trademark untrue accusation that all I do is criticize people - I'd just like to point out that he has outright refused to answer the vast majority of questions on any of the subjects he's brought up OR any offers of correction)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 12, 2015, 01:55:58 AM
Speaking of Credibility:
...and the fact that you have none?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on April 12, 2015, 03:06:27 AM
Natural News is not a source I would cite as being credible.

But, that is just me...you can, of course, do whatever you want.

Bill

Hey Bill

If I had to compare, i would say that NN has a higher rate of true claims than this site. Not to denounce this site of any importance.

I read a lot of sites. I check out CNN, NBC, MSNBC. Then I compare them to Foxnews.  When you read the contradictory views of either side, then dig for more info, it is clear Fox has them running for the toilet paper to wipe their mouths.  ;)


Why is it so hard to believe that someone that actually cares about this planet and the people on it, can produce articles that are true? If you dig, you can back up those articles.

Before NN, I was reading theintelhub.com.  I had noticed that some of their articles were from NN. Later, when trying to log onto the hub, it was a no go. Looked like it was down for repairs, updates, but never came back. Doing searches to see what was up, the only thing that came up was intellihub.com.  There was no notice of this change and the site was clearly different.  But had a lot of the same articles and still some from NN. I thought it was odd. So I have been with NN since and once in a while checking out the hub. Anyway, yada yada yada.

This site we are on IS an alternative news site. Mostly things you will never see in the mainstream. 

There are a few articles on NN that I question some things. But over all, I take in what ever I can that is useful.

The hub and NN put out articles on Fukoshima meltdown way more than the mainstream public knows about. Read up the stories on the polar bears in alaska loosing their hair. The seals beaching in heards, like they dont want to be in the water. Many many strange things that can be related to radiation. Just within the first year after the tsunami and nuke plant problems, the pattern of the radiation dispersal flows here, to the Americas, with canada and alaska getting the brunt of it. 
The Japanese are lucky in a way that it all seems to flow away from them, except for the water systems and the ocean around them. Russia, China and the Koreas dont seem to have any issues as the air flow is not in their direction. Its all coming here. Back then, not sure now, the milk in Hawaii was being treated with a substance(boron I believe) to reduce the radiation levels, as the milk was coming from Cali. At the time, they were paying 15 bucks a gal for that tainted milk. If you look hard enough, you will find some real scary news on that subject and the heavy duty censoring going on. If I had not found it on NN then I would not have done more research.

Same with the gulf oil spill. That isnt over yet.  ;)

These are the things that will cause great issues in the oceans, and without the life in the oceans, everything goes down hill.

Also, just within a year of Fukoshima, several nuke plants here in the US had major issues. One in Nebraska was flooded. In Alabama one was shut down by tornados, cutting the 'incoming' power to the cooling. Lol, No looping power from the plant for its own cooling. 40,000 gallons an hour of diesel was brought in by tankers for more than a week till those 7 cooling power lines were repaired. AP did a year long investigation on nuke plants around the nation. Over 40 of some 65 tested had tritium leaking into the grounds.   

When I looked up those articles in Neb and Al, the only outlet for that news was local to those areas. Nothing mainstream.

Well, back here in so called 'real life', one might find it interesting what a decent radiation detector would find. Lol, maybe even your cell phone, produce from the west coast, fresh fish from the atlantic (tuna in a can)etc.


Ok, back to my rebuild of my first ebike. Is a brushed hub motor. The commutator is a flat circular disk and the brushes face is shaped accordingly like a wedge. So bought some rectangle brushes, sanded them into shape and its running good. Just got to open the hub to adjust the brush timing for more torque. Right now its very low torque at low speeds but will go to 30mph. Starts to really kick in at 20mph. So I will be happier with better takeoffs and 23, 24 mph.

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 12, 2015, 03:20:09 AM
Hey Bill

If I had to compare, i would say that NN has a higher rate of true claims than this site. Not to denounce this site of any importance.

I read a lot of sites. I check out CNN, NBC, MSNBC. Then I compare them to Foxnews.  When you read the contradictory views of either side, then dig for more info, it is clear Fox has them running for the toilet paper to wipe their mouths.  ;)


Why is it so hard to believe that someone that actually cares about this planet and the people on it, can produce articles that are true? If you dig, you can back up those articles.

Before NN, I was reading theintelhub.com.  I had noticed that some of their articles were from NN. Later, when trying to log onto the hub, it was a no go. Looked like it was down for repairs, updates, but never came back. Doing searches to see what was up, the only thing that came up was intellihub.com.  There was no notice of this change and the site was clearly different.  But had a lot of the same articles and still some from NN. I thought it was odd. So I have been with NN since and once in a while checking out the hub. Anyway, yada yada yada.

This site we are on IS an alternative news site. Mostly things you will never see in the mainstream. 

There are a few articles on NN that I question some things. But over all, I take in what ever I can that is useful.

The hub and NN put out articles on Fukoshima meltdown way more than the mainstream public knows about. Read up the stories on the polar bears in alaska loosing their hair. The seals beaching in heards, like they dont want to be in the water. Many many strange things that can be related to radiation. Just within the first year after the tsunami and nuke plant problems, the pattern of the radiation dispersal flows here, to the Americas, with canada and alaska getting the brunt of it. 
The Japanese are lucky in a way that it all seems to flow away from them, except for the water systems and the ocean around them. Russia, China and the Koreas dont seem to have any issues as the air flow is not in their direction. Its all coming here. Back then, not sure now, the milk in Hawaii was being treated with a substance(boron I believe) to reduce the radiation levels, as the milk was coming from Cali. At the time, they were paying 15 bucks a gal for that tainted milk. If you look hard enough, you will find some real scary news on that subject and the heavy duty censoring going on. If I had not found it on NN then I would not have done more research.

Same with the gulf oil spill. That isnt over yet.  ;)

These are the things that will cause great issues in the oceans, and without the life in the oceans, everything goes down hill.

Also, just within a year of Fukoshima, several nuke plants here in the US had major issues. One in Nebraska was flooded. In Alabama one was shut down by tornados, cutting the 'incoming' power to the cooling. Lol, No looping power from the plant for its own cooling. 40,000 gallons an hour of diesel was brought in by tankers for more than a week till those 7 cooling power lines were repaired. AP did a year long investigation on nuke plants around the nation. Over 40 of some 65 tested had tritium leaking into the grounds.   

When I looked up those articles in Neb and Al, the only outlet for that news was local to those areas. Nothing mainstream.

Well, back here in so called 'real life', one might find it interesting what a decent radiation detector would find. Lol, maybe even your cell phone, produce from the west coast, fresh fish from the atlantic (tuna in a can)etc.


Ok, back to my rebuild of my first ebike. Is a brushed hub motor. The commutator is a flat circular disk and the brushes face is shaped accordingly like a wedge. So bought some rectangle brushes, sanded them into shape and its running good. Just got to open the hub to adjust the brush timing for more torque. Right now its very low torque at low speeds but will go to 30mph. Starts to really kick in at 20mph. So I will be happier with better takeoffs and 23, 24 mph.

Mags

Fox News is the only credible news source in the mainstream media.  MSNBC?  Really?

Enough said there.

I was a journalism major and NONE of the other mainstream media even comes close to practicing real journalism. All of them are just mouthpieces for the democrat party.  If you have ever listened to any of Rush's montages on any given media event...funny they all use the exact same words as if written by just one person.  After about 20 times of hearing this...there is no way any of them have any credibility with me. 

"Some say that..."

Who are "some"?  Why quote a non-existent source?  Because they want to foist their agenda on us and do not have any credible sources.  Just listen to the news carefully sometime...you can hear it.  Brian Williams was not the only one making up false stories, he just got caught...as did Dan Rather.  A total fake.


Bill

PS  Good luck on the bike project.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 12, 2015, 05:06:22 AM
Why is it so hard to believe that someone that actually cares about this planet and the people on it, can produce articles that are true? If you dig, you can back up those articles.
From NN, the ones that differ from the body of scientific work?  Nope. NN is almost 90% ignorant garbage and if you ever wanted to know any different I'd show you why but as you have loudly and proudly proclaimed that you never want to know where they are wrong.  So I guess I just sit here and call you an idiot until you realize that only an idiot would take position themselves as never wanting to know anything wrong about anything they believe.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on April 12, 2015, 05:44:08 AM
Still trolling along Sir Trollalot?
You must be paid well.
Is there no vacancy?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 12, 2015, 05:50:41 AM
You must be paid well.
I am, just not by the people you are pretending I get paid by. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on April 12, 2015, 06:04:39 AM
I am, just not by the people you are pretending I get paid by. :)
Oh?
No pharmaceutical companies then?
One of the many intelligence agencies?
I know you are paid well because otherwise you wouldn't be here all the time, I have a family and simply don't have the time to be around so much but you do how come?
You are a paid troll aren't you?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 12, 2015, 06:17:09 AM
Quote from: Ssssssss-ar-Keeeee-Zzzzzzzzzun
I am, just not by the people you are pretending I get paid by. :)

Hope your performance there is better than what
you demonstrate here!  Demotions and/or negative
pay adjustments are a beech.  Passover time yet?

A very encouraging change of pace. (http://www.zengardner.com/dr-oz-blasts-glyphosate-monsanto-regulators/)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 12, 2015, 06:37:27 AM
Oh?
No pharmaceutical companies then?
One of the many intelligence agencies?
I have never received money from either of those broadly defined groups.
Quote
I know you are paid well because otherwise you wouldn't be here all the time,
The answer is simple:

i) None of you are interested in discussing the issues and ii) I don't pump gas for a living.

So in reference to i) Being around people like Magluvin, SeaMonkey and yourself is easy.  You all have almost, absolutely nothing to say.  Seriously there are high-school math problems which require more concentration than talking to you and because I'm not, as mentioned in ii) involved in dispensing petroleum products I spend a fair amount of my workday typing on a computer.

So the fact that you take very little time to respond to and that I have ample opportunity to respond equates to a quick turnaround time.
Quote
I have a family and simply don't have the time
Maybe and I realize this will be difficult for you to understand but just maybe....my life is different from yours in the same way an awful lot of peoples lives are different than yours.

Anyway I think it's pretty obvious that even you don't be believe that I'm paid to post here. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 12, 2015, 06:38:37 AM
Hope your performance there
In other words you don't believe I'm a paid to post here either. :) Gotcha. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on April 12, 2015, 06:54:39 AM
Anyway I think it's pretty obvious that even you don't be believe that I'm paid to post here. :)
(the extra "be" is a typo in haste I take it)
Well, if you are not paid for trolling I think you are a sick puppy and need help.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 12, 2015, 07:19:51 AM
Well, if you are not paid for
As I said.  It's obvious that "shill" is just a name to be called.  Nobody here actually thinks I get a check after all this.  That would actually be mildly interesting.  I admit that seeing that kind of delusion up close would be kind of cool.
Quote
I think you are a sick puppy and need help.
Why deny me my entertainment?  I mean you, magluvin, SeaMonkey, Joel, et. al. have nothing meaningful to say...so what's wrong with having fun at your expense? :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 12, 2015, 06:36:48 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/07/anti-vaxxers-normal-people_n_7017814.html
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 12, 2015, 06:54:37 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/07/anti-vaxxers-normal-people_n_7017814.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/07/anti-vaxxers-normal-people_n_7017814.html)

Wow, they nailed it.  Good video.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 12, 2015, 09:38:25 PM
Sarkey,

"Color Revolutions" have been the name of the game
for a long, long time.  Every "movement" or "common
sense protest" is quickly infiltrated by paid "riff-raff"
by the establishment in order to be able to control
both sides of any argument.

The job of the Riff-Raff is to bring defamation upon the
movement and to disparage its followers while denigrating
its message in the eyes of the general public.

The Riff-Raff have acquired a following of certain members
of this Forum who unwittingly join in on the "fun."  The
"Dumbed Down" crowd will fall for anything.

Until their eyes are opened, that is, by personal misfortune.
Then they at last seriously research what they thought was
right in order to expose its wrongs.

So have your fun while you're able.  In due time you'll come to
comprehend the folly of your arrogance.
 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 12, 2015, 10:39:49 PM
"Color Revolutions" have been the name of the game
for a long, long time.  Every "movement" or "common
sense protest" is quickly infiltrated by paid "riff-raff"
by the establishment in order to be able to control
both sides of any argument.

The job of the Riff-Raff is to bring defamation upon the
movement and to disparage its followers while denigrating
its message in the eyes of the general public.

The Riff-Raff have acquired a following of certain members
of this Forum who unwittingly join in on the "fun."  The
"Dumbed Down" crowd will fall for anything.

Until their eyes are opened, that is, by personal misfortune.
Then they at last seriously research what they thought was
right in order to expose its wrongs.

So have your fun while you're able.  In due time you'll come to
comprehend the folly of your arrogance.

Here is your Riff Raff.

Bill

PS  Did you know that this guy wrote most, if not all of the songs for that movie?  My favorite is Science Fiction Double Feature.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3Boz0O1SqM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3Boz0O1SqM)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 13, 2015, 01:01:20 AM
Every "movement" or "common sense protest" is quickly infiltrated by paid "riff-raff" by the establishment in order to be able to control both sides of any argument.
See the problem with this, and a lot of conspiracy theories is that it's based around a principle that can not be validated.  There is absolutely no way you could have this piece of knowledge - in the proper sense of this word.  You would have to first know EVERY MOVEMENT THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED?  How would you even start cataloging that?  What criteria would you use? Once you had that you would also need indisputable proof of "establishment" involvement in each and every case and then you would need to have indisputable proof that the "establishment" was controlling both sides of the argument.  Given that the first point is unfeasible and the second and third are based around knowing perfectly what people are trying to keep hidden.  The likelihood that you have all three of these are considerably lower than a single ticket winning the lottery.
Quote
The "Dumbed Down" crowd will fall for anything.
As Magluvin and Joel illustrate constantly. :)
Quote
In due time you'll come to comprehend the folly of your arrogance.
Which arrogance is that?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 13, 2015, 01:02:41 AM
Here is your Riff Raff.
It's like I'm under sedation.

I think anyone who knew who Riff was IRL would know his musical talent. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on April 13, 2015, 02:26:46 AM
As Magluvin and Joel illustrate constantly. :)Which arrogance is that?

lol. If I were dumbed down I would simply just take the vacs, pop the prescriptions and wither away watching Maury Povich after The Price is Right.

If I were to ask you what your opinion is on GMo vs organic, or your opinion on gun control, or even what your political beliefs are, I would be wasting my time. Because I know the answers already. ;) Knapkin anyone? :P



"A Michigan woman who was kicked out of a nursing program for daring to question her instructors is taking legal action.
Nichole Rolfe filed a lawsuit against Baker College on April 6 in Genesee Circuit Court. She claims two instructors at the school’s Owosso campus told students to threaten and panic patients into getting vaccinations, and that she was dismissed from the school for questioning that instruction.
But there’s more to this story."
http://www.nutritionalanarchy.com/2015/04/11/vaccine-bullying-101-nursing-students-taught-scare-tactics/
On another note...
CBO tells us that the national debt was a little less than $13 trillion in 2014. But the fiscal gap in that year as calculated by Kotlikoff was $210 trillion, more than 16 times larger than the debt estimated by CBO and already judged, by CBO and many others, to be unsustainable. If a $13 billion gap is unsustainable, what term should we apply to a $210 trillion gap?
http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2015/04/08/the_federal_debt_is_worse_than_you_think_101610.html
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 13, 2015, 03:17:36 AM
It is actually 90 trillion when you count unfunded liabilities which neither party likes to count.  Possibly, the higher number you post might include long term interest and adjustments for inflation over the future years?  The 90 trillion is from the GAO, but you have to dig for it.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on April 13, 2015, 03:49:21 AM
It is actually 90 trillion when you count unfunded liabilities which neither party likes to count.  Possibly, the higher number you post might include long term interest and adjustments for inflation over the future years?  The 90 trillion is from the GAO, but you have to dig for it.

Bill

Yeah, this one is new to me also. I read of 70 T a couple years ago.  But even to 90 T now is a steep climb.

There is a lot we dont know unless we dig. ;)


Latest update on my mom...

When she was admitted into the hospital that sat afternoon, that evening she said she would be home the next day. Well over 4 days she was there and they still didnt know what was wrong with her. No stroke. Not till the last day she saw a neurologist. He determined she had a minor stroke then was sent home.  She went to see her doctor this week and he said he went over all the info from the hospital. He said he doesnt see that she had a stroke at all.

Its a wonderful system isnt it? ;)

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 13, 2015, 03:50:04 AM
If I were dumbed down I would simply just take the vacs
That statement proves my point.  See being intelligent is about how you evaluate evidence.  You - at least the troll persona you show here - evaluate based on how closely something posted mirrors your pre-existing prejudices.  Now if you're saying here that you accept the things form NN which you've posted here pretty much at face value NOT BECAUSE YOU'RE IGNORANT.  Then aren't you saying that you are deliberately posting things that you know are pretty much shit?  Is that a step up where you're from?
Quote
Because I know the answers already.
Unlikely. 
Quote
Its a wonderful system isnt it? ;)
I'm sure you're legitimately faux distressed over your made-up problems.  I'd still take science based medicine over your "I will always fail stats" medicine. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on April 13, 2015, 04:22:06 AM
That statement proves my point.  See being intelligent is about how you evaluate evidence.  You - at least the troll persona you show here - evaluate based on how closely something posted mirrors your pre-existing prejudices.  Now if you're saying here that you accept the things form NN which you've posted here pretty much at face value NOT BECAUSE YOU'RE IGNORANT.  Then aren't you saying that you are deliberately posting things that you know are pretty much shit?  Is that a step up where you're from?Unlikely.  I'm sure you're legitimately faux distressed over your made-up problems.  I'd still take science based medicine over your "I will always fail stats" medicine. :)

Like Seamonkey said....

"Every "movement" or "common
sense protest" is quickly infiltrated by paid "riff-raff"
by the establishment in order to be able to control
both sides of any argument.

The job of the Riff-Raff is to bring defamation upon the
movement and to disparage its followers while denigrating
its message in the eyes of the general public."




And when you say this....  "I'm sure you're legitimately faux distressed over your made-up problems."  you speak out of ignorance, because how would you really know? ;) You base that statement on what you have made up in your head, not based on facts. ;) So you are basically a liar. ;)


Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 13, 2015, 04:39:36 AM
Like Seamonkey said....
Who believes that someone has a cure right now to every disease ever known.... :)
Quote
And when you say this....  "I'm sure you're legitimately faux distressed over your made-up problems."  you speak out of ignorance
Not really.  My position is based pretty much on what you've said.  My conclusion is simply different from the sandwich you are selling.  So unless it's ALSO complete ignorance to BELIEVE you on what you said then it's clearly it's impossible for it to be ignorance to DISBELIEVE you on the same basis. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on April 13, 2015, 04:45:17 AM
Bill Gates Wants Depopulation Through Vaccines and Health Care      Video

http://tv.naturalnews.com/v.asp?v=A155D113455FAC882A3290536575C723



Brain-dead mainstream media: 50 ppb of arsenic is dangerous to drink, but 50,000 ppb of mercury is safe to inject into children
Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/049295_arsenic_in_wine_mainstream_media_science_hoax.html#ixzz3X9Yg2jry (http://www.naturalnews.com/049295_arsenic_in_wine_mainstream_media_science_hoax.html#ixzz3X9Yg2jry)


"
50 ppb is "dangerous" but 50,000 ppb is "safe"Let's review this for a minute in order to communicate the astonishing disinfo you're being fed by the mainstream media:

FACT #1: Flu shots contain around 50,000 ppb of mercury (http://www.naturalnews.com/045705_flu_vaccine_mercury_heavy_metals.html). A typical flu shot is 0.5 mL in volume, delivering about 25 micrograms of mercury per shot.

FACT #2: Flu shots are promoted for children and pregnant women -- the very same groups which typically avoid drinking wine and therefore have little or no exposure to arsenic in wine.

FACT #3: Injecting a heavy metal into your body is orders of magnitude more toxic than merely swallowing it.

FACT #4: Flu shots really do contain 50,000 ppb of mercury as proven in this ICP-MS laboratory test (http://www.naturalnews.com/045705_flu_vaccine_mercury_heavy_metals.html). As a reference, that's 25,000 times higher than the mercury limit allowed by the EPA in drinking water. Also see this story on Natural News (http://www.naturalnews.com/045418_flu_shots_influenza_vaccines_mercury.html) which details the lab test results.

FACT #5: Mercury is, itself, orders of magnitude more toxic to human biology than arsenic. As this Materials Safety Data Sheet explains (http://www.bethlehemapparatus.com/pdf/MSDS.pdf), mercury "may damage fertility or the unborn child" and cause "central nervous system effects." It's also "fatal if inhaled."

FACT #6: To get the equivalent amount of arsenic from wine that you get in the form of mercury from a vaccine, you'd have to drink 500 liters of wine all at once."



Mags
[/color]


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on April 13, 2015, 04:55:56 AM
http://labs.naturalnews.com/Videos.html       Videos from NN lab


http://labs.naturalnews.com/Video-Agilent-7700x-ICP-MS-Instrument.html     


http://labs.naturalnews.com/Video-Secrets-to-Blocking-Mercury.html


Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 13, 2015, 05:06:53 AM
MISUSED FACT #1: Flu shots contain around 50,000 ppb of mercury (http://www.naturalnews.com/045705_flu_vaccine_mercury_heavy_metals.html). A typical flu shot is 0.5 mL in volume, delivering about 25 micrograms of mercury per shot.
We usually say 50ppm, not 50,000 ppb or 50,000,000 ppt.  There's a whole reason we have units.

Ok. I get that you will always flunk math but surely you must see that 50ppm is a calculation of concentration not dose.  ppm/ppb/ppt are useful metrics when you have something where there is a chronic dose.  air, drinking water, soil.  However when you ingest something or inject it you are far more interested in the absorbed dose and the half-life.
 
Quote
As a reference, that's 25,000 times higher than the mercury limit allowed by the EPA in drinking water.
So you really don't have any idea why drinking water is different than vaccines?

Are you also aware that science and magic are different things?  It seems like you don't.  Just sayin'
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 13, 2015, 05:08:11 AM
http://labs.naturalnews.com/Videos.html       Videos from NN lab
I think the phrase "natural news labs" is one of the funniest things you've posted. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on April 13, 2015, 06:03:45 AM
Natural news has another site just up recently    http://www.foodrising.org/

They provide 3d print files for producing your own grow systems.

Amazing Food Rising photos show Health Ranger growing strawberries, peppers, tomatoes and 14-day micro greens... OH MY!
Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/049325_Food_Rising_fresh_strawberries_Health_Ranger.html#ixzz3X9tTJ9LN (http://www.naturalnews.com/049325_Food_Rising_fresh_strawberries_Health_Ranger.html#ixzz3X9tTJ9LN)




Strawberries in just 3 weeks.....


Mags
[/color]
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on April 13, 2015, 06:23:53 AM
I think the phrase "natural news labs" is one of the funniest things you've posted. :)

Well thats because you have that shilly sense of humor. ;)

Where is your lab? Where is your test equipment? Where are your tests to prove otherwise? Where are your studies? ::)

Now that is funny. ;)

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 13, 2015, 06:41:02 AM
Where is your lab? Where is your test equipment?
So, to you.  Owning test equipment immediately and inherently makes you capable of doing analysis.  Odd world you live in. In the real world buying test equipment is exactly like buying a car.  If you don't know how to drive you can end up doing some stupid things.
Quote
Where are your tests to prove otherwise?
Prove "what" otherwise?  NN is absolutely terrible at READING studies.  They are terrible at INTERPRETING data.  THIS is why "natural news labs" is funny.  They can't even read or interpret the data someone who actually knows how to use test equipment has produced.  What they will produce on their own is going to be funny. :)

....or do you absolutely 100% seriously not know why virtually everything they said about the ppm of mercury in a vaccine is not relevant to the issues of vaccine safety?  Just say "yes" or "no".
Quote
Where are your studies? ::)
Right where they've always been in various medical databases.  I've definitely posted and referenced some in this thread.  At least one about mercury....buuuuuuuut you are still far too afraid to ask to see anything contrary to your opinion. :)

Keep on vieing for "most dumbed down" - I'll let you know when you win. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on April 14, 2015, 02:54:41 AM
So, to you.  Owning test equipment immediately and inherently makes you capable of doing analysis.  Odd world you live in. In the real world buying test equipment is exactly like buying a car.  If you don't know how to drive you can end up doing some stupid things.Prove "what" otherwise?  NN is absolutely terrible at READING studies.  They are terrible at INTERPRETING data.  THIS is why "natural news labs" is funny.  They can't even read or interpret the data someone who actually knows how to use test equipment has produced.  What they will produce on their own is going to be funny. :)

....or do you absolutely 100% seriously not know why virtually everything they said about the ppm of mercury in a vaccine is not relevant to the issues of vaccine safety?  Just say "yes" or "no".Right where they've always been in various medical databases.  I've definitely posted and referenced some in this thread.  At least one about mercury....buuuuuuuut you are still far too afraid to ask to see anything contrary to your opinion. :)

Keep on vieing for "most dumbed down" - I'll let you know when you win. :)

A while back, NN, while investigating foods, found that Wheaties contained enough iron to be able to pick up crumbs with a neo mag. Others did videos showing the same. One guy went, with camera man following, into a grocery store, pulled a box of Wheaties right off the shelf and opened it right there. He poured some on a shelf, crushed them babies up and sure enough, had shown the same results.

Yeah. Go on. Tell me I made it up. Tell me that the grocery store vid was fake, or maybe that it doesnt even exist, just because I did not post it. Yet.
Tell me that General Mills wasnt pissed about it. Tell me that Mike Adams doesnt have the skills to operate a microscope and see that it wasnt just metal powders, that he found what look like tiny shards of metal. Tell me that it is all just a hoax Sarko.  Because that is what you do.

Tell me nuthin.

Now. If Mike hadnt been conducting those tests and posted his results, how long would it had gone on and the possibility that it harms people?

These companies that we have known all our lives are not the same as we knew them. If we dont test them, who will?  The FDA didnt find those heavy metal wheaties. ::) General Mills didnt find them. ??? And you most certainly would ever put any efforts toward such goals.  ;)   Nope, none of these above.

The Health Ranger found it! ;D He published his findings.  ;) And it produced results. :o      NN 1 / Sarko zip


Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on April 14, 2015, 03:20:40 AM
Health Ranger accused of elaborate hoax for conducting science demonstration with Wheaties cereal
Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/043635_science_demonstration_Wheaties_cereal_elaborate_hoax.html#ixzz3XF5JwIz9 (http://www.naturalnews.com/043635_science_demonstration_Wheaties_cereal_elaborate_hoax.html#ixzz3XF5JwIz9)



General Mills, maker of metal fragment-filled Wheaties, announces changes to legal terms that make consumers bound to arbitration
Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/044888_General_Mills_arbitration_deceptive_practices.html#ixzz3XF426XNM (http://www.naturalnews.com/044888_General_Mills_arbitration_deceptive_practices.html#ixzz3XF426XNM)





Mags
[/color]
[/color]
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on April 14, 2015, 03:23:40 AM
Who woulda guessed? ;) ;) ;) ;)

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 14, 2015, 03:51:35 AM
A while back, NN, while investigating foods, found that Wheaties contained enough iron to be able to pick up crumbs with a neo mag. Others did videos showing the same. One guy went, with camera man following, into a grocery store, pulled a box of Wheaties right off the shelf and opened it right there. He poured some on a shelf, crushed them babies up and sure enough, had shown the same results.

Yeah. Go on. Tell me I made it up. Tell me that the grocery store vid was fake, or maybe that it doesnt even exist, just because I did not post it. Yet.
This does make me re-evaluate NN.  I'm surprised they are capable of executing a somewhat well known high-school science experiment.  Although since it's on their site I wouldn't be surprised if their interpretation is stupid.  This isn't specific to Wheaties You can do the same thing with other light, iron rich foods when you have a sufficiently strong magnetic field.
Quote
Tell me that Mike Adams doesnt have the skills to operate a microscope
So let's just examine this line of reasoning.  Mike Adams does an experiment that kids do and all of a sudden he has something meaningful to contribute to actual science?

Wait...you did know this was an experiment done by high-school kids right?  It's not original Mike Adams research right?  :)
Quote
that he found what look like tiny shards of metal
I'm sure Mike imagined that he found all sorts of things in his poor excuse of a mind.  However if it was in fact actual metal shards that caused this effect then you wouldn't expect it to work with all sorts of iron-rich foods which are similarly lightweight but it does.   Score one for thinking and Mike Adams has yet to make a point.
Quote
Tell me that it is all just a hoax Sarko.
It's not a hoax. it's just Mike Adams putting on a lab coat and playing dress up. 
Quote
Now. If Mike hadnt been conducting those tests and posted his results, how long would it had gone on and the possibility that it harms people?
LOL - you didn't know! Did you?  ROFL! 
Quote
If we dont test them, who will?  The FDA didnt find those heavy metal wheaties.
Uh ever look at the label.  It says "iron".  Also, generally the term "heavy metal" is reserved for metals heavier than iron.  Just sayin'.
Quote
The Health Ranger found it! ;D He published his findings.
I'm not sure that making a video of a well known property of iron rich foods is considered "findings".  I'm also rather certain that kid chemistry books and teachers guides probably had the jump on him for by a few decades.

So I wonder what happens now?  Will you go into hiding?  or will it be "deny" "deny" "deny".   My guess is the later. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 14, 2015, 03:58:16 AM
Who woulda guessed? ;) ;) ;) ;)
That you're a clod who swallows NN without even the smallest possible amount of thinking?

I would have.  Totally.  Right away.  Every day.  You are the quintessential NN sheep. (or at least you play as one here)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 14, 2015, 04:18:46 AM
Heavy metals usually are metals that are heavier than iron and are toxic.  Gold, for example, is heavier but is not considered a heavy metal by the chemistry definition due to its lack of toxicity.  Iron is not toxic and, in fact, the body needs iron to function properly.  There have been thoughts that folks did not need to take iron supplements years ago due to the amount of iron still left in the soil where crops were grown, and the fact that most people used iron skillets.  Now, a lot of the minerals are depleted from the farmer's soil and folks use aluminum cookware, or steel. 

Ah, progress.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 14, 2015, 07:55:49 AM
It is pretty obvious for any smart intelligent person to understand vaccinations.

-There is no cure for the flu virus.
-There is no cure for depression.
-There is no cure for anorexia.
-There is  no cure for alcoholism.
-There is no cure for diabetes.
-There is no cure for ADD.
-There is no cure for OCD.
-There is no cure for drug addiction.
-There is no cure for smoking addiction.
-There is no cure for obesity.
-There is no cure for AIDs.

And the list goes on and on. IF DRUGS ARE SOOO! HELPFUL, WHY ARE THERE NO CURES? lol.

That is pretty simple to understand -> drugs are not the answer since they are man made. When man made stuff get in between MOTHER NATURES cure, is when things IMPLODE. Plain and simple. MOther nature knows the cure A MILLION LIGHT YEARS ahead of any doofus know-it-all medicine advocate!

If there are no CURES for what I posted, then that only means that all vaccinations are only helping the immune system PLAIN AND SIMPLE. That does not mean that the “doctors” have “reverse” engineered the KEY to the holly grail. lol.

This is so moronic that the pro medicine people don’t understand that they are learning about MOTHER NATURE. ALL of the ingredients are coming from MOTHER NATURE. AND it will never be a medicine world. That is stupid to believe.

Like I said, show me a pill that cures obesity? lol
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 14, 2015, 08:18:01 AM
Everything that we live off comes from MOTHER NATURE. The air is already made and cannot be destroyed. The light is already made and cannot be destroyed. The water is already made and cannot be destroyed. The earth is already made and cannot be destroyed.

What a vaccine tries to do is to try to help those people that just happened to stepped on the quick sand. THATS ALLL! Vaccines don’t cure those that don’t step on the “quick sand”...what does that tell you? VACCINATIONS ARE ONLY MADE FOR THE PEOPLE THAT FALL IN THE QUICK SAND!. BUt what about the people whom never fall in the quick sand? lol

I can picture a t-rex going in the clinic to get a vaccine. And then the t-rex dying due to the nurses being carrying much greater viruses on the body than a t-rex would. I can safely say that the modern human is carrying more viruses inside and outside the modern body than any tribe in the jungle is. In fact, any modern human can go to a jungle and meet elders in tribes will get them sick upon contact.

Where is the cure for:

-diabetes?
-depression?
-obesity?
-anorexia?
-ADD?
-alcoholism?
-drug addiction?
-poverty?
-insomnia?
- addiction?

And the list goes on!

How the pills/vaccines work you may ask yourself? Well it is pretty simple. Just help the immune system to fight it off. lol THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE PILL IS THE IMMUNE SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 14, 2015, 01:42:29 PM
It is pretty obvious for any smart intelligent person to understand vaccinations.
Which seems to explain why you have such a problem. :)
Quote
-There is no cure for the flu virus.
-There is no cure for depression.
-There is no cure for anorexia.
-There is  no cure for alcoholism.
-There is no cure for diabetes.
-There is no cure for ADD.
-There is no cure for OCD.
-There is no cure for drug addiction.
-There is no cure for smoking addiction.
-There is no cure for obesity.
-There is no cure for AIDs.
Yawn.  More word games from someone who is so afraid of losing that they won't even define ONE WORD sufficiently well so that it can be usefully talked about.

I mean, really Joel-who-is-almost-as-stupid-as-Magluvin is shouting about "There are no CURES" but he might as well be saying "There are no xclvkjsdeworlkfjsdl's".   
Quote
And the list goes on and on. IF DRUGS ARE SOOO! HELPFUL, WHY ARE THERE NO CURES?
This is called an appeal to an arbitrary standard of evidence.  In case anyone needs help counting the logical flaws in Joel's post.

Since, as usual Joel has nothing to say.  I'd invite everyone to check out my pointing out Magluvin's blunder where he seems to think that Mike Adams doing a high-school science experiment is research (http://www.overunity.com/15147/vaccinations-recent-developments/msg445908/#msg445908)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 14, 2015, 11:21:46 PM
Vaccination Safety

Quote from: Dave Mihalovic
I have yet to meet a Physician that will sign this form now downloaded by hundreds of parents. The reason they won’t sign is two-fold: First, they do not want to place themselves in a vulnerable position of being negligent for not providing informed consent to thousands of other parents; and second, many of them realize after their own extensive research that the risks far outweigh any benefits when it comes to vaccination.

It’s been over a year since hundreds of parents have downloaded this form and there are still no reports of any signatures. Many physicians won’t even look at the form while they dismiss a parent’s anti-vaccination stance as ridiculous. The behavior is a clear indication of a very misinformed Physician who does not have his or her patient’s best interests at heart. They are not willing to inform their patients of the risks, only the benefits they feel are acceptable. They are not open-minded to any other side of the debate except their own biased view passed down through the medical system.

Then are those Physicians who have questioned the vaccination schedules and will pursue their own research. Many of them are now awakening themselves thanks to ongoing research and pressure from parents and even other colleagues to look at other perspectives besides their own indoctrination. If you are pressured by any Physician to vaccinate, please download and print this form (and send us a Physician signed copy if possible (http://philosophers-stone.co.uk/wordpress/2012/08/possible/)). Assertively state to your Doctor that it is the only way you will fully informed to consider vaccination, and that an analyses of the risks and benefits will better (http://philosophers-stone.co.uk/wordpress/2012/10/better/) allow you evaluate the decision.

100% of Physicians approached with this form have so far declined to sign it.

The Form is attached.  Download it.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 15, 2015, 12:45:50 AM
The Myth of Scientific Neutrality
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on April 15, 2015, 01:31:19 AM
"This mini-documentary features Mike Adams, the Health Ranger, announcing his discovery and documentation of the Metals Capturing Capacity of foods, botanicals, superfoods and dietary substances."

Good vid. ;)   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvC4Mxoa0Sc

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 15, 2015, 03:29:08 AM
It is pretty obvious for any smart intelligent person to understand vaccinations.


You are kidding again...right?



-There is no cure for the flu virus. Boost your immune system by eating well and also,wash your hands.
-There is no cure for depression.  Sure there is, cheer up.
-There is no cure for anorexia. Eat more.
-There is  no cure for alcoholism. Don't drink any more.
-There is no cure for diabetes. Lose weight and give up sweets.
-There is no cure for ADD.  Pay attention.
-There is no cure for OCD. Stop repeating things.
-There is no cure for drug addiction. Stop using drugs.
-There is no cure for smoking addiction.  Stop smoking.
-There is no cure for obesity.  Lose weight by eating less and exercising more.
-There is no cure for AIDs. Don't have unprotected coitus with gay people, or share needles with other IV drug users.

All of the items you listed above are easily dealt with.  People are doing exactly this every day so, there is a "cure".

You actually left out the only legit one which is cancer.

Are you typing while on recreational drugs?

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MileHigh on April 15, 2015, 04:21:23 AM
Yikes!  Run for the hills!!!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/tara-hills-ottawa-mom-changes-anti-vaccination-stand-but-7-kids-still-get-sick-1.3025592
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 15, 2015, 05:50:47 AM
It’s been over a year since hundreds of parents have downloaded this form and there are still no reports of any signatures. Many physicians won’t even look at the form while they dismiss a parent’s anti-vaccination stance as ridiculous. The behavior is a clear indication of a very misinformed Physician who does not have his or her patient’s best interests at heart.
Since the implication here is that this is a completely reasonable thing to sign I'd like someone to provide with me any group of practitioners who would sign the following concerning what they practice without complaint:

Quote
Regardless of the legal entity under which I normally practice medicine, I am issuing this statement in both my business and individual capacities and hereby waive any statutory, Common Law, Constitutional, UCC, international treaty, and any other legal immunities from liability lawsuits in the instant case.

IANAL but the real reason people don't sign this is probably that signing it is the wrong thing to do.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 15, 2015, 05:52:33 AM
Good vid. ;)   
Doubtful. :)

So now you're just going to pretend that you didn't try to pass of Mike Adams doing a high-school science experiment as research?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on April 15, 2015, 07:04:03 AM
Doubtful. :)

So now you're just going to pretend that you didn't try to pass of Mike Adams doing a high-school science experiment as research?

Show me a school science book that shows crushing up wheaties, or for that matter, any food and pick up the crumbs with a magnet. ??? Show me a school text book that has experiments on testing and measuring metals in food. ::)

Now be gone with thee.  >:( You bore me with your fallacies of evidence. ;)

Maybe your just tired.  Go make yourself a nice sandwich. ;)

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on April 15, 2015, 07:09:57 AM
.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on April 15, 2015, 07:29:03 AM
No wonder there is so much push for pro choice. They are harvesting.


Sickening: Major food corporations use tissue from aborted babies to manufacture flavor additives in processed foods
Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/049367_aborted_babies_flavor_chemicals_food_corporations.html#ixzz3XLvfbYao (http://www.naturalnews.com/049367_aborted_babies_flavor_chemicals_food_corporations.html#ixzz3XLvfbYao)


Mags
[/color]
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 15, 2015, 03:25:28 PM
Show me
Hey a request for EVIDENCE instead of your usual "No, don't tell me anything I don't want to hear". :)
Quote
a school science book that shows crushing up wheaties, or for that matter, any food and pick up the crumbs with a magnet. ???
Well...

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/get-the-iron-out-of-your-breakfast-cereal-bring-science-home/

This isn't a school science book but it is a science experiment for kids that predates moron-boy's video by a few years.   If you're reading carefully - which you never do - you'll see it's actually from National Science Education Standards which is a guide for teaching kids science.  This particular one is from a 1996 copy. :) :) :) :) :) :) :) but you could have found all of that if a) You had even a microscopic interest in something other than your prejudices or b) If you had listened in science class. :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Soooooo going to keep pretending that this isn't a reasonably well known experiment for KIDS to do?  Going to keep pretending that Mike Adams is doing research? :) :) :) :) :)

Let me know moron.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on April 16, 2015, 12:34:12 AM
Hey a request for EVIDENCE instead of your usual "No, don't tell me anything I don't want to hear". :)Well...

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/get-the-iron-out-of-your-breakfast-cereal-bring-science-home/ (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/get-the-iron-out-of-your-breakfast-cereal-bring-science-home/)

This isn't a school science book but it is a science experiment for kids that predates moron-boy's video by a few years.   If you're reading carefully - which you never do - you'll see it's actually from National Science Education Standards which is a guide for teaching kids science.  This particular one is from a 1996 copy. :) :) :) :) :) :) :) but you could have found all of that if a) You had even a microscopic interest in something other than your prejudices or b) If you had listened in science class. :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Soooooo going to keep pretending that this isn't a reasonably well known experiment for KIDS to do?  Going to keep pretending that Mike Adams is doing research? :) :) :) :) :)

Let me know moron.

I said show me a high school text book that has this experiment. You failed.

Your article says to grind to a powder and see if the magnet picks up tiny black particles. But Mikes vid and others show the magnet picking up chunks that were not just fine particles of iron only.  But you cant tell the difference. So your the moron.  :P

Mags
 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 16, 2015, 01:02:38 AM
I said show me a high school text book that has this experiment. You failed.
Actually you said:
Quote
Show me a school science book that shows crushing up wheaties
Is this a school science book?  Yep.  Does it tell you to crush up wheaties?  Yep.

Changing your requirements now is a little low....even for you.  No wait.  I'm pretty sure that's you all the time. :) :) :)
Quote
Your article says to grind to a powder and see if the magnet picks up tiny black particles. But Mikes vid and others show the magnet picking up chunks that were not just fine particles of iron only.  But you cant tell the difference.
So you don't think the particles are magnetic or you don't think they were in the cereal?    You have to believe at least one of those two because if you don't then you've admitted that I'm right and you're wrong :)  Clearly some larger cereal pieces would get picked up with a sufficiently strong magnet.  Since not every kid has a large neodymium magnet at home the experiment is designed to work with weak magnets.

Watching you squirm is fun.  Keep it up. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 16, 2015, 04:06:20 AM
Sarkey is deeply confused in addition to being
desperately pathetic:
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 16, 2015, 04:33:17 AM
Sarkey is deeply confused in addition to being desperately pathetic:
Actually this is the first time Magluvin actually took some kind of position on something.  Which makes me happy, not as happy as how badly I'm slapping him around but it better than the "NOooooooooo please don't tell me anything I don't want to hear" whiny dance he usually does. :)

...so how have you been?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 18, 2015, 08:52:49 AM
Quote
You are kidding again...right?

-There is no cure for the flu virus. Boost your immune system by eating well and also,wash your hands.
-There is no cure for depression.  Sure there is, cheer up.
-There is no cure for anorexia. Eat more.
-There is  no cure for alcoholism. Don't drink any more.
-There is no cure for diabetes. Lose weight and give up sweets.
-There is no cure for ADD.  Pay attention.
-There is no cure for OCD. Stop repeating things.
-There is no cure for drug addiction. Stop using drugs.
-There is no cure for smoking addiction.  Stop smoking.
-There is no cure for obesity.  Lose weight by eating less and exercising more.
-There is no cure for AIDs. Don't have unprotected coitus with gay people, or share needles with other IV drug users.

All of the items you listed above are easily dealt with.  People are doing exactly this every day so, there is a "cure".

You actually left out the only legit one which is cancer.

Are you typing while on recreational drugs?

Did you noticed how you didn't say take this pill (drug) or that other pill (drug) to cure it? :P

I'm not kidding. NO! pill cures any of those. Mother nature does by following it's rules. When ARTIFICIAL ingredients MAN MADE give humans cancer, there is no way mother nature can cure it nor can it be cured artificially. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Now how have to know the difference between mother nature cancer VS artificially human GREED made cancer. I can bet one dollar you don't know?

I can't make a study and say that an animal in the wild eats healthier than a modern human! lol But what will I gain? NOTHING! But it's true. Eating freshly killed meat is healthier than eating a double whooper, fries, and a coke, for example?

PS, The root of depression is addiction which stems from the ROOT of TV commercials! You are just a donkey bill trying to bite on that carrot that is hanging in front of you that you can't never eat. lol Tell me right now why do people pay millions of dollars to air commercials on public/cable TV? Then tell me why do we pay to watch those commercials? We are bullied over and over again for our money to the point that we become zombies. By zombies I mean donkeys chasing that carrot. = 30% more. 20% fat-free. 30% discount! The cure for the flu. I don't know if you have noticed that when comercials come one when you are watching public/cable TV the volume goes up? well, = brain wash the donkeys to milk them for their money! The dumbos should be complaining to lower the volume during commercials but the greedy people say RAISE the volume so they can hear our commercials since we are paying big bucks. lol It goes deep you have no idea in your ignorant ways.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 18, 2015, 09:21:11 AM
Quote
-There is no cure for the flu virus. Boost your immune system by eating well and also,wash your hands.

You do realize that a flu shot does not cure the flu virus?

Quote
-There is no cure for depression.  Sure there is, cheer up.

You do realize that the 'cheering' up pills are the cause for depression?

Quote
-There is no cure for anorexia. Eat more.

Well tell an anorexic to eat more doctor and see how many [patients you cure in a year?

Quote
-There is  no cure for alcoholism. Don't drink any more.

Hi my name is joel and I'm an alcoholic. Dr: Joeal don't drink more! Me: why doctor, you have cured me with your magical words. How much do I owe you? lol

Quote
-There is no cure for diabetes. Lose weight and give up sweets.

How many diabetic people have you rescued?

etc...the same follow the same pattern. In no statement did you mention any drug to take? Why is that drug believer? I mean 'vaccination' believer? Are vaccines only for viruses and not for obesity or anorexia?

Vaccines only are like a software engineer to a computer virus! Just get a hold of one to REVERSE ENGINEER IT! Plain and simple. JUST BECAUSE A REVERSE ENGINEER CAN REVERSE A VIRUS DOES NOT MEAN HE/SHE UNDERSTAND THE HUMAN/ANIMAL genetics! Not even in a psychological manner! = All vaccinations are just focusing on REVERSE ENGINEERING! They don't know how The sperm came to be to swim up to the egg? Blah blah blah. = They only know from what has been tested on animals! And they don't know everything!

I already said even the simple flu virus will stay in your body for EVER once you get it. It will not leave and will MUTATE in the future (years from now) when your immunity is low (get sick) to come and bite you in the ass! This is all simple 'evolution" stuff! MR it-is-so-simple. lol

Bill, educate yourself. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 18, 2015, 03:49:10 PM
Did you noticed how you didn't say take this pill (drug) or that other pill (drug) to cure it? :P
Yawn.  So for all you people who aren't morons let me explain this game he's playing.  By claiming "there is no cure" but absolutely refusing to tell you what a "cure" is in any detail.  He is asking you to play a long game of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. 

The proof is by asking him for a definition and watch him avoid the question.  Which adds evidence to the idea that Joel is, at least partially deliberately trolling.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 18, 2015, 06:41:32 PM
Did you noticed how you didn't say take this pill (drug) or that other pill (drug) to cure it? :P

I'm not kidding. NO! pill cures any of those. Mother nature does by following it's rules. When ARTIFICIAL ingredients MAN MADE give humans cancer, there is no way mother nature can cure it nor can it be cured artificially. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Now how have to know the difference between mother nature cancer VS artificially human GREED made cancer. I can bet one dollar you don't know?

I can't make a study and say that an animal in the wild eats healthier than a modern human! lol But what will I gain? NOTHING! But it's true. Eating freshly killed meat is healthier than eating a double whooper, fries, and a coke, for example?

PS, The root of depression is addiction which stems from the ROOT of TV commercials! You are just a donkey bill trying to bite on that carrot that is hanging in front of you that you can't never eat. lol Tell me right now why do people pay millions of dollars to air commercials on public/cable TV? Then tell me why do we pay to watch those commercials? We are bullied over and over again for our money to the point that we become zombies. By zombies I mean donkeys chasing that carrot. = 30% more. 20% fat-free. 30% discount! The cure for the flu. I don't know if you have noticed that when comercials come one when you are watching public/cable TV the volume goes up? well, = brain wash the donkeys to milk them for their money! The dumbos should be complaining to lower the volume during commercials but the greedy people say RAISE the volume so they can hear our commercials since we are paying big bucks. lol It goes deep you have no idea in your ignorant ways.

You are very funny.

I do not even own a TV.  I have not owned one for many years, therefore, I do not watch TV so my brain is not "bullied' as you claim, by commercials.  I use AdBlock on Firefox so when on the internet, I also see no commercials.  None.  Not even one on Youtube movies.  Nada.

Funny your trying to educate me on advertising.  I have a college degree in advertising.  I have worked in the advertising field.

What are your qualifications?

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 18, 2015, 08:33:13 PM
Quote from: Pirate88179
...
...I have a college degree in advertising.
...

The "art" of advertising has come a long way since the
advent of motion pictures and television.  The techniques
utilized are very similar to those used in "brainwashing" and
Mind Control programs, including the ever-present subliminals.

Knowing how the psychology is applied can assist one
in becoming immune to the deceptions.

Subliminal Advertising (http://www.psychologistworld.com/influence_personality/subliminalads.php)

Subliminal Images and Hidden Messages (http://www.artistmike.com/Temp/SubliminalAd.html)

How Subliminal Advertising Works (http://parade.com/48369/parade/how-subliminal-advertising-works/)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 18, 2015, 11:05:56 PM
The "art" of advertising has come a long way since the
advent of motion pictures and television.  The techniques
utilized are very similar to those used in "brainwashing" and
Mind Control programs, including the ever-present subliminals.

Knowing how the psychology is applied can assist one
in becoming immune to the deceptions.

Subliminal Advertising (http://www.psychologistworld.com/influence_personality/subliminalads.php)

Subliminal Images and Hidden Messages (http://www.artistmike.com/Temp/SubliminalAd.html)

How Subliminal Advertising Works (http://parade.com/48369/parade/how-subliminal-advertising-works/)

Well, they taught us that subliminal ads were tried in the 50's and guess what?  The studies showed they had NO EFFECT.  None.  They neither helped nor hurt an ad.  100% facts.

Bill

You may be referencing the fact that David Ogilvy  (Who founded Ogilvy, Benson and Mather, one of the largest and most successful ad agencies in the world) used to work for the British Secret Service during WWII.  He was stationed in the US to spy on the US with several other agents including Ian Flemming and Roald Dahl, who both went on to be famous writers.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 19, 2015, 05:44:05 AM
Quote from: Pirate88179
Well, they taught us that subliminal ads were tried in the 50's and guess what?  The studies showed they had NO EFFECT.  None.  They neither helped nor hurt an ad.  100% facts.
...

It is true that the earliest efforts to implant subliminal
messages into ads were ineffective.  The techniques
have changed markedly since that time and are presently
far more efficient at the process of shaping opinion and
creating desire within the minds of the viewers.

Nearly every TV production today, including the so-called
"News" programs, make extensive use of subliminals.
Viewers have gotten so accustomed to them that they
hardly notice the techniques, or perhaps more accurately,
cannot notice the techniques while in their hypnotic trance
state.

The Art has come a long way since its earliest days...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 19, 2015, 08:29:03 AM
Quote
You are very funny.

I do not even own a TV.  I have not owned one for many years, therefore, I do not watch TV so my brain is not "bullied' as you claim, by commercials.  I use AdBlock on Firefox so when on the internet, I also see no commercials.  None.  Not even one on Youtube movies.  Nada.

Funny your trying to educate me on advertising.  I have a college degree in advertising.  I have worked in the advertising field.

What are your qualifications?

You are contradicting yourself there bill!!!! You don't understand how advertising works in the present day BUT YET you have a "college" degree in advertising for the present day? By your age, you took collage decades ago!!!! The present is not the same as the past when you where in college.

If you are so educated regarding commercials/advertising, tell us right now what is the commercial model for any TV commercial on public TV or even radio advertising? Heck even in pills?

Plus we have to stay in focus on the main point! We are talking about vaccinations here. You should know very well that there is no cure for the flu virus because there are three every winter time here in the equator fo the earth. IOW, there will always be flu shots = no cure for the virus!!!!! The "cure" only comes via prediction by the 'experts' or when a lot get sick and then they produce a vaccine for the prominent virus strain. BUT there will always be a flu shot = not cure for the flu virus.

We have to take in to account that some people are allergic to mad made 'medicine'. And have to find accountable the FORCED medicine in the mouth or via injection if it kills your kid or you as an adult. I just find it toooooo unreal that medicine can get away with murdering people. Lets say a person is allergic to the medicine and the GOVERNMENT mandates everyone to get MANDATORY vaccinations. Then we have people whom die from vaccinations!!!! Or get sick for life!!!! That should be a felony or someone should be accountable for that harmful results! The only way your pathetic brain can realize this is when one of your relatives goes through this or you yourself. Other than that, you are just ignorant to reality!

Sorry to say bill, you are not very brilliant as you may seem you are!

You are a selfish person ONLY thinking for yourself! Do you not feel bad for any person that dies due to having being forced to take a flu shot? = MANDATED? Or others that get life long sick for the rest of their life? Of course NOT! YOU ARE ONLY THINKING ABOUT YOURSELF IN HOW RIGHT YOU ARE ABOUT EVERYTHING WHEN YOU ARE ONLY RIGHT IN YOUR IGNORANSE.

Quote
I use AdBlock on Firefox so when on the internet...

LOL I know wayyyyyy more than that regarding computers. = yawn = OS image, visualization, firewalls, viruses, physhing, routers, oclhashcat, noscripts, etc....

Stay on point bill. Maybe you find it hard to believe that you have been living in your little bubble?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 19, 2015, 08:42:22 PM
You should know very well that there is no cure for the flu virus because there are three every winter time here in the equator fo the earth. IOW, there will always be flu shots = no cure for the virus!!!!! The "cure" only comes via prediction by the 'experts' or when a lot get sick and then they produce a vaccine for the prominent virus strain. BUT there will always be a flu shot = not cure for the flu virus.
Joel apparently is arguing that vaccines cure the measles here.... :)

Quote
Lets say a person is allergic to the medicine and the GOVERNMENT mandates everyone to get MANDATORY vaccinations. Then we have people whom die from vaccinations!!!! Or get sick for life!!!!
Joel decides to show us what a strawman fallacy looks like. :)

Quote
Do you not feel bad for any person that dies due to having being forced to take a flu shot?
Considering the number is considerably smaller than those who die of the flu...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 19, 2015, 11:01:38 PM


If you are so educated regarding commercials/advertising, tell us right now what is the commercial model for any TV commercial on public TV or even radio advertising? Heck even in pills?

And have to find accountable the FORCED medicine in the mouth or via injection if it kills your kid or you as an adult.

Or get sick for life!!!!  The only way your pathetic brain can realize this is when one of your relatives goes through this or you yourself. Other than that, you are just ignorant to reality!

Sorry to say bill, you are not very brilliant as you may seem you are!

HOW RIGHT YOU ARE ABOUT EVERYTHING WHEN YOU ARE ONLY RIGHT IN YOUR IGNORANSE.

LOL I know wayyyyyy more than that regarding computers. = yawn = OS image, visualization, firewalls, viruses, physhing, routers, oclhashcat, noscripts, etc....



Well...um..OK.  I would try to answer your question but I have no idea what you were trying to ask here?

I really enjoy when someone tells me I am only right in my ignorance, and does not even come close to spelling ignorance correctly.

Then, I am told how much Joel knows about computers, and he misspells or misunderstands just about every word used to explain how much he knows, thereby demonstrating how little he knows about computers.

Kids, please pay attention.  This is exactly why you should not do illegal drugs.  His latest post is a great example as to what can happen to you.

Just say NO.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 20, 2015, 07:41:07 AM
Quote
Well...um..OK.  I would try to answer your question but I have no idea what you were trying to ask here?

Do you have any idea why are you even posting on this sub-forum when you are not even intelligent enough to understand how viruses work?

Quote
I really enjoy when someone tells me I am only right in my ignorance, and does not even come close to spelling ignorance correctly.

Does not matter iF I misspelled it, the point still stands mr -JB-weld-guy lol. I can say with confidence that I know more than you regarding anything that comes out of your mouth. I'm just having fun with you lol.

Quote
Then, I am told how much Joel knows about computers, and he misspells or misunderstands just about every word used to explain how much he knows, thereby demonstrating how little he knows about computers.

I am sooo confident I know more about computers than you do bill that I AM WILLING TO BET $10,000 USD that I am 100% sure I know more about computers than you do? Care to take that challenge? We both have google at our disposal but since I have been messing with computers for many years, and your evidence of showing your ignorance, I'm confident I KNOW wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more about computers than you do bill. I don't want to take your money but just trying to POINT BLANK give you 100% facts that I k now more about computers than you do. And the rest follows about vaccinations. I just know more about everything that you know. I say that with confidence because it shows the way you reply.  You are just entertainment to me bill.

Quote
Kids, please pay attention.  This is exactly why you should not do illegal drugs.  His latest post is a great example as to what can happen to you.

Your brain is not capable to understand very DEEP and BEYOND past your nose true facts. You are the type of person that I would try to entertain with sponge bob square pants and do some puppet show. If you want to insult I can 100% guarantee that you will get insulted back senseless BUT that is not the GOAL. The FACT is that you are just enjoying the attention in this sub forum but it is not about your needy attention, it is about FACTS. The facts are that vaccinations should not be mandatory! The facts are that vaccinations kill people. The facts are that vaccinations get away with murder. = who cares if a few die if the more live.

The facts are that you are a JB weld boy. lol I will never forget that bill. You brain does not phase me even .oo1%. lol

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 20, 2015, 07:51:41 AM
Bill,

Quote
If you are so educated regarding commercials/advertising, tell us right now what is the commercial model for any TV commercial on public TV or even radio advertising?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 20, 2015, 02:28:04 PM
you are not even intelligent enough to understand how viruses work?
Isn't Joel the person who thinks that vaccines only protect against one strain - instead of a serotype?
Quote
I can say with confidence that I know more than you regarding anything that comes out of your mouth.
I would challenge him to a game now.  That shut him up last time. :)
Quote
I k now more about computers than you do.
Just pointing out the strange misuse of logic here.  Even if this was true, it doesn't necessitate that in some particular case there's a big difference.
Quote
You are just entertainment to me bill.
As Joel is to just about everyone he trolls.  Although I wonder what happened to his claim that he was primarily posting to "help people" and then accused people who were just posting to have fun were "selfish". 

Quote
The facts are that vaccinations kill people.
Not in any useful sense of the term.  For example GBS can be lethal and can be caused by a vaccine BUT it happens that way because GBS is caused by an immune reaction to the virus you are immunizing against.  Having no vaccines would increase the number of virus cases and consequentially increase the number of GBS cases.

Ever watch that horrible neo-vampire film ultraviolet?  The writers understood infectious diseases better than Joel.  People there were hyper sensitive germophobes and bought everything in sealed bags but people still got infected.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 20, 2015, 07:04:37 PM
http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/girl-must-be-given-measles-vaccine-before-trip-to-europe-judge-rules-1.2321539

Nice Job Justice R.J. Harper
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 20, 2015, 08:48:01 PM
In his 38 page judgment  R.J. Harper re-affirms that the
corporate government has jurisdiction over the LEGAL
NAME ENTITY that it creates and the accompanying
Man or Woman who are deceived into operating as a
General Partner to IT.

If the Girl in question knew how to assert her true
identity apart from the LEGAL NAME she wouldn't
be under the thumb of the Medical Establishment
or the whims of the governments.

Our lack of knowledge causes us much woe.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 20, 2015, 08:58:55 PM
In his 38 page judgment  R.J. Harper re-affirms that the
corporate government has jurisdiction over the LEGAL
NAME ENTITY that it creates and the accompanying
Man or Woman who are deceived into operating as a
General Partner to IT.

If the Girl in question knew how to assert her true
identity apart from the LEGAL NAME she wouldn't
be under the thumb of the Medical Establishment
or the whims of the governments.

Our lack of knowledge causes us much woe.
Can someone translate?  As I'm fond of telling Profitis: I don't speak troll (or delusional rambler)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on April 20, 2015, 11:38:49 PM
"Across Europe, more than 800 children are so far known to have been made ill by the vaccine," reports the International Business Times (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/brain-damaged-uk-victims-swine-flu-vaccine-get-60-million-compensation-1438572).

"Norway has seen more than 170 reported cases of children developing narcolepsy after receiving the Pandemrix vaccine," reports the Global Post (http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/europe/140320/norway-swine-flu-narcolepsy-pandemrix-vaccinations).
"The government has so far paid $13 million to 86 victims, including 60 children...

"GlaxoSmithKline swine flu vaccine brain damaged medical staffers, too"Among those affected are NHS medical staff, many of whom are now unable to do their jobs because of the symptoms brought on by the vaccine," reports the IBTimes. "They will be suing the government for millions in lost earnings."

Hundreds of children brain damaged by the swine flu vaccine to receive $90 million in financial compensation from UK governmentLearn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/049423_swine_flu_vaccine_brain_damage_financial_compensation.html#ixzz3Xt6yCuKt (http://www.naturalnews.com/049423_swine_flu_vaccine_brain_damage_financial_compensation.html#ixzz3Xt6yCuKt)



Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 21, 2015, 01:08:32 AM
So decided to conveniently forget how you LAUDED and WORSHIPED the health ranger for....well....doing a high-school science experiment correctly?  To me, anyway that's not exactly a high-bar. :) but I guess you need to set your sights low with him...

On to pandermix...so again similar to GBS, we have an illness with a viral trigger.  I'm not sure why anti-vax folk like to concentrate so much on adjuvants and other nonsense.  Personally I'm happy that the courts sided with the people.  There is reasonable evidence that pandermix significantly contributed to their condition.

Although it's pretty funny that in Mike Adam's write up - which is mostly quotes - he still manages to be something of an idiot.   Now that's efficiency! :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 21, 2015, 02:13:15 AM
Do you have any idea why are you even posting on this sub-forum when you are not even intelligent enough to understand how viruses work?

Does not matter iF I misspelled it, the point still stands mr -JB-weld-guy lol. I can say with confidence that I know more than you regarding anything that comes out of your mouth. I'm just having fun with you lol.

I am sooo confident I know more about computers than you do bill that I AM WILLING TO BET $10,000 USD that I am 100% sure I know more about computers than you do? Care to take that challenge? We both have google at our disposal but since I have been messing with computers for many years, and your evidence of showing your ignorance, I'm confident I KNOW wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more about computers than you do bill. I don't want to take your money but just trying to POINT BLANK give you 100% facts that I k now more about computers than you do. And the rest follows about vaccinations. I just know more about everything that you know. I say that with confidence because it shows the way you reply.  You are just entertainment to me bill.

Your brain is not capable to understand very DEEP and BEYOND past your nose true facts. You are the type of person that I would try to entertain with sponge bob square pants and do some puppet show. If you want to insult I can 100% guarantee that you will get insulted back senseless BUT that is not the GOAL. The FACT is that you are just enjoying the attention in this sub forum but it is not about your needy attention, it is about FACTS. The facts are that vaccinations should not be mandatory! The facts are that vaccinations kill people. The facts are that vaccinations get away with murder. = who cares if a few die if the more live.

The facts are that you are a JB weld boy. lol I will never forget that bill. You brain does not phase me even .oo1%. lol

Well, IF I thought that you really had $10,000 and would actually pay up, I would do it.  I have been playing with and building computers since the old Intel 8088 chip back in the early 80's.  I know some code but don't really write software so, you should be clear on if the question is do you know more about hardware, or software than I do.  Or are you claiming both?  Have you ever even built a computer?  If you have, which I doubt, did you realize that you need to use JB Weld, or some other epoxy, during the construction or it will not work for very long?

I'll bet you didn't even know that.

Do you even know what thermal compound is?  Do you know when and where to use it?

I didn't think so.

Save your imaginary money Joel and please try to read some books prior to posting about technical subjects.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 21, 2015, 03:38:45 AM
Quote from: Ssssssss-ar-Keeeeeee-Zzzzzzzzzzun
Can someone translate?  As I'm fond of telling Profitis: I don't speak troll (or delusional rambler)

Sarkey,

Quite often your responses are pathetically
indicative of great ignorance on things MATRIX.

Needless to say, this pathetic ignorance, is feigned.

Anyone with half a brain knows full well the LEGAL
NAME
(and NUMBER) scheme of entrapment much
relied upon by the MATRIX as it conducts its malicious
malevolent BUSINESS.

Try as you might to portray some semblance of
innocence to add credence to your pathetic
fictional personality, your efforts fall flat.

Pathetically flat.  Pathetically in love with the MATRIX.

The mind is a terrible thing to waste...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 21, 2015, 04:27:49 AM
Sarkey,

Quite often your responses are pathetically
indicative of great ignorance on things MATRIX.
Perhaps because you made them up?
Quote
Needless to say, this pathetic ignorance, is feigned.
Honestly I really don't know what you're talking about...you're kind of crazy and ignorant.  That's a difficult communication barrier to overcome.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 21, 2015, 04:30:58 AM
I have been playing with and building computers since the old Intel 8088 chip back in the early 80's.
I was more of a 6502 man myself.  In fact right now I'm attempting to help out a friend and resurrect one of their machines which has no OS and nobody they know has media with the OS on it. I have an electronic copy of the OS from the internet.  So I'm attempting to bulk load it into memory over RS232.

Fun, fun, fun!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 21, 2015, 06:35:38 AM
I was more of a 6502 man myself.  In fact right now I'm attempting to help out a friend and resurrect one of their machines which has no OS and nobody they know has media with the OS on it. I have an electronic copy of the OS from the internet.  So I'm attempting to bulk load it into memory over RS232.

Fun, fun, fun!

That sounds cool.  Good luck with that.  Wozniak used that in the Apple 1 and the ever popular Apple II, as I am sure you know.

But, you probably should not have posted this as you are just going to confuse poor Joel.  His computer history only goes back to Window XP.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 21, 2015, 07:01:16 AM
Joel:

Do you even know who this guy is?

His autographed photo is hanging here on the wall at Pirate Labs.
(I blacked out my last name to protect the guilty, the innocent need no protection)

Bill

PS  I'll give you a hint...that is the Apple II in the photo with him.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 21, 2015, 07:51:28 AM
Quote from: Sarkeizen
I was more of a 6502 man myself.  In fact right now I'm attempting to help out a friend and resurrect one of their machines which has no OS and nobody they know has media with the OS on it. I have an electronic copy of the OS from the internet.  So I'm attempting to bulk load it into memory over RS232.

Fun, fun, fun!

Aye, it does sound like fun!  The 6502 had/has some unique
features amongst the early microprocessors.

Would you mind telling which "machine" you're working with?

Apple?  Commodore?  Atari?  Presuming that it is one of the
home computers from that era.

The OS was generally found on a ROM which could be replaced
with an EPROM if desired for added flexibility. Perhaps the machine
you're working with loaded the OS from a floppy or cassette?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 21, 2015, 02:20:19 PM
Aye, it does sound like fun!  The 6502 had/has some unique features amongst the early microprocessors.
In what sense?
It was cheap - IIRC it was introduced at $25 in singles when the 8080 was $125
It was pretty easy to make a computer from - it had a simple two phase clock which left room for doing DMA.  You could argue that the Z80 with it's built in refresh circuitry make it easier for someone to build a machine from scratch.
It had a relatively orthogonal ISA (not quite the PDP-11 but that wasn't a Micro) I suppose and zero page addressing might be pretty unique but if it didn't have that it would have been an even greater pain to develop for.
It's got a short cycle time IIRC nothing longer than 8 the filpside of that is that it needed faster memory than the longer cycled Z80.   The 6502 got away with at 1 Mhz what the Z80A did with 4Mhz.
It was anemic in the register dept. Three 8 bit registers not counting the stack pointer. The Z80, 6809 and TMS9900 all beat it out - to be fair the TMS's register file was external but that wasn't uncommon in the minicomputer world from whence it came.

Don't get me wrong.  I loved the thing as a kid and I had my share of elitism about it and I can still write 6502 assembly off the top of my head BUT it was, like everything else a series of engineering compromises.
Quote
Would you mind telling which "machine" you're working with?
It's an Apple //c - rev 2 motherboard.  Why do you put quotes around the word machine?
Quote
The OS was generally found on a ROM which could be replaced with an EPROM if desired for added flexibility. Perhaps the machine you're working with loaded the OS from a floppy or cassette?
The term "operating system" doesn't really have a precise definition.  Back in the 80's to micro users it would probably refer to Disk Operating System.  However to people who used mini's and mainframes it's unclear if they would have even recognized what DOS did as being a full OS.  As it didn't schedule tasks - most of them had rudimentary interrupt handling.  It might have been seen as a component of an OS.  Like a control program, Gary Kidall called his creation CP/M - control program/monitor.

Outside of DOS I'm not sure either group would have recognized the collection of routines in most micro ROMs as an "operating system".

For the Apple IIs - DOS was generally bootstrapped from ROM but the OS was primarily on disk.  IIRC the Commodore and Atari machines used a ROM based DOS.  In this case I don't have any disks lying around for this machine.  So I rigged a NULL serial cable.  There are programs which will bootstrap the machine automatically over RS232 however they don't appear to work.  I suspect that the //c's ridiculous RTS/CTS wiring doesn't work quite right with the generic serial cables I had lying around.  I'm kind of on a clock on this one so the obvious thing (to me) was to have a tiny program on the computer which reads the serial port and pushes the result into RAM.  Force the OS image down the wire.  Then execute it.  Effectively emulating the bootloader. 

It actually worked but the OS is complaining about something.  So I may have to patch it. 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 21, 2015, 02:22:20 PM
His autographed photo is hanging here on the wall at Pirate Labs.
(I blacked out my last name to protect the guilty, the innocent need no protection)
That's awesome.  How old is the pic?  Ten?  Fifteen?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: kEhYo77 on April 21, 2015, 07:03:51 PM
CDC Admits 98 Million Americans Received Polio Vaccine Contaminated With Cancer Virus (http://aetherforce.com/cdc-admits-98-million-americans-received-polio-vaccine-contaminated-with-cancer-virus/)



Quote
The CDC has quickly removed a page from their website, which is now cached, ( but now has been removed) admitting that more than 98 million Americans received one or more doses of polio vaccine within an 8-year span when a proportion of the vaccine was contaminated with a cancer causing polyomavirus called SV40. It has been estimated that 10-30 million Americans could have received an SV40 contaminated dose of the vaccine.
V40 is an abbreviation for Simian vacuolating virus 40 or Simian virus 40[/i], a polyomavirus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyomavirus) that is found in both monkeys and humans. Like other polyomaviruses, SV40 is a DNA virus that has been found to cause tumors and cancer.

SV40 is believed to suppress the transcriptional properties of the tumor-suppressing genes in humans through the SV40 Large T-antigen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SV40_Large_T-antigen) and SV40 Small T-antigen. Mutated genes may contribute to uncontrolled cellular proliferation, leading to cancer.Michele Carbone, Assistant Professor of Pathology at Loyola University in Chicago, has recently isolated fragments of the SV-40 virus in human bone cancers and in a lethal form of lung cancer called mesothelioma. He found SV-40 in 33% of the osteosarcoma bone cancers studied, in 40% of other bone cancers, and in 60% of the mesotheliomas lung cancers, writes Geraldo Fuentes.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 21, 2015, 07:27:30 PM
CDC Admits 98 Million Americans Received Polio Vaccine Contaminated With Cancer Virus (http://aetherforce.com/cdc-admits-98-million-americans-received-polio-vaccine-contaminated-with-cancer-virus/)
Case control on Non-Hodgekins Lymphoma and SV40
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15367569
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15734981
General Cancer
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12671021
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15286015

There is really no reason to believe that SV40 causes cancer in humans. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 21, 2015, 09:12:47 PM
Quote from: Sarkeizen
The 6502 got away with at 1 Mhz what the Z80A did with 4Mhz.
It was anemic in the register dept. Three 8 bit registers not counting the stack pointer. The Z80, 6809 and TMS9900 all beat it out - to be fair the TMS's register file was external but that wasn't uncommon in the minicomputer world from whence it came.

Aye, the pipeline enabled it to perform well with a
slower clock than the Z-80.  Addressing modes
made the lack of registers unimportant.

The 8080/8085/Z-80 processors were well equipped
with registers to be sure.

With the 6800/6802 and the 6502 a different approach to
program structure was necessitated.  Good exercise
for the brain.  Particularly when creating programs and
routines at the assembler level before the high level
compilers became the norm.

Tight Code was a work of art.

Quote from: Sarkeizen
Why do you put quotes around the word machine?

My first "machine" was the Timex/Sinclair 1000.  Followed
by the Atari 800 and the Atari ST then the Kaypro II and CP/M-2.
Then the Amstrad PCW (CP/M-3) before finally transitioning to
the IBM PC (DOS, Win 3.0) and its clones.

Quote from: Sarkeizen
The term "operating system" doesn't really have a precise definition.  Back in the 80's to micro users it would probably refer to Disk Operating System.  However to people who used mini's and mainframes it's unclear if they would have even recognized what DOS did as being a full OS.  As it didn't schedule tasks - most of them had rudimentary interrupt handling.  It might have been seen as a component of an OS.  Like a control program, Gary Kidall called his creation CP/M - control program/monitor.

Outside of DOS I'm not sure either group would have recognized the collection of routines in most micro ROMs as an "operating system".

The Operating System enabled the "machine" to be
used for useful work.  The Boot Loader wasn't thought
of as the Operating System.

Quote from: Sarkeizen
For the Apple IIs - DOS was generally bootstrapped from ROM but the OS was primarily on disk.  IIRC the Commodore and Atari machines used a ROM based DOS.  In this case I don't have any disks lying around for this machine.  So I rigged a NULL serial cable.  There are programs which will bootstrap the machine automatically over RS232 however they don't appear to work.  I suspect that the //c's ridiculous RTS/CTS wiring doesn't work quite right with the generic serial cables I had lying around.  I'm kind of on a clock on this one so the obvious thing (to me) was to have a tiny program on the computer which reads the serial port and pushes the result into RAM.  Force the OS image down the wire.  Then execute it.  Effectively emulating the bootloader. 

It actually worked but the OS is complaining about something.  So I may have to patch it.

Creak, creak.  As the "brain-rust" dislodges and
memories of "how to do it" return.

Aye, it does sound like great fun.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 21, 2015, 09:49:57 PM
Addressing modes made the lack of registers unimportant.
Not really, memory addressing on the 6502 was usually absolute (4 cycles), indexed absolute (~4 cycles) or zero page indirect (~6 cycles).  Z80 can load a 16 bit location in 2 memory cycles.

My first machine was a VIC-20.  Only slightly less anemic than the Sinclair.  However I had programmed for years before this my family couldn't really afford a computer.  So I would go to the school labs, or a computer store and write code.

Quote
The Operating System enabled the "machine" to be used for useful work.
I'd say that's too broad.  Well outside either the definition used at the time or today.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 21, 2015, 10:39:15 PM
Quote from: sarkeizen
Not really, memory addressing on the 6502 was usually absolute (4 cycles), indexed absolute (~4 cycles) or zero page indirect (~6 cycles).  Z80 can load a 16 bit location in 2 memory cycles.
...

The 6502 Pipeline (http://forum.6502.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&start=15&t=2983) made the difference.

More on Pipeline. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instruction_pipeline)

And a bit more. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Instruction_pipeline)

"Useful Work" via the OS interface has today become
very broad.

Words vs. Terms.  Colloquialisms.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 21, 2015, 10:55:52 PM
The 6502 Pipeline (http://forum.6502.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&start=15&t=2983) made the difference.
I know what a pipeline is but the 6502 only had a one stage pipeline and all it does is allows you to decode an instruction while one is executing (or fetch one while one is decoding).  Which means on average you can knock off a cycle.   It's still very slow to load/store a range of 16 bit addresses. 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 21, 2015, 11:03:28 PM
Quote from: Sarkeizen
...It's still very slow to load/store a range of 16 bit addresses.

The user had no idea that it was "slow."  It was
adequately "fast" for the task at hand in those
times.  Cassettes and Floppies then were truly
slow.

I know, I know...  Speed was money then, or so it
seemed.  3.5 MHz was really fast according to the
ads.  But, as the saying goes, who really gave a shat?

The Surgeon General engages in Desperate Propaganda. (http://www.zengardner.com/surgeon-general-targets-children-violates-ftc-fda-laws/)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 21, 2015, 11:29:08 PM
The user had no idea that it was "slow."
I was addressing your assertion that addressing modes make lack of registers irrelevant.  It is relevant in terms of performance and perhaps in annoyance to the coder.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 22, 2015, 01:04:41 AM
Quote from: Sarkeizen
I was addressing your assertion that addressing modes make lack of registers irrelevant.  It is relevant in terms of performance and perhaps in annoyance to the coder.

I comprehend.  Thankfully, coders of the day were up to
the challenge and honed their skills at writing tight code
to minimize bloat.  Necessity is the mother of invention and
necessity enabled coders to find new ways to accomplish
tasks.  Breaking new ground with innovative thought.

It was a delight working with each of the processors and
tweaking code to attain the highest possible performance.

Now, of course, that is a lost art.  Many Coders today are not
concerned with bloat or minor bugs.  Stuck in a rut they are.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 22, 2015, 01:13:34 AM
Thankfully, coders of the day were up to the challenge and honed their skills at writing tight code to minimize bloat.
That is more than a little romanticized version of history.  Example this rather famous game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwM06NbZ2r0

I can tell - just by watching - exactly what their code does as it takes 9s to draw a screen.  I can even tell you why the screen clears to white and why it does in little rectangles.

Just like the 6502 was a compromise so was the software written on it.  Sometimes it was bloated and sometimes it was fast it depended on the outcomes desired.

Also the idea that modern programmers are somehow less concerned with speed or bloat is a bit of a fiction.  ISA's are so complicated that compilers will generally do a better job than assembly programmers.  Not to mention that there is no longer a single target.   For example back when the PIII and P4 co-existed they had mutually exclusive optimal cases.  The PIII was a high IPC target whereas the P4 was a high-clock rate target.  So even something as simple as a memory move had to be coded very differently depending on which machine was running the code.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 22, 2015, 02:28:45 AM
That's awesome.  How old is the pic?  Ten?  Fifteen?

I am guessing about 10 years or so.  He is an awesome guy and his book  "I WOZ" which I read years ago is now posted on Youtube in an audio version.  I will edit and place a link here for those that want to listen to it.  It is a great book and gives one a lot of insight into what really went into making the world's first pc.

Bill

EDIT:  Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS4EROM1gDA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS4EROM1gDA)

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 22, 2015, 02:34:51 AM
I am guessing about 10 years or so.  He is an awesome guy and his book  "I WOZ" which I read years ago is now posted on Youtube in an audio version.  I will edit and place a link here for those that want to listen to it.  It is a great book and gives one a lot of insight into what really went into making the world's first pc.

Bill
Cool I wonder if that's the same book I read a few years back.  I've also read "West of Eden", "Odyssey", "Defying Gravity" and "The little kingdom". 

If you haven't read: http://www.folklore.org/ you should. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 22, 2015, 03:34:41 AM
Quote from: Sarkeizen
That is more than a little romanticized version of history.  Example this rather famous game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwM06NbZ2r0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwM06NbZ2r0)

I can tell - just by watching - exactly what their code does as it takes 9s to draw a screen.  I can even tell you why the screen clears to white and why it does in little rectangles.

Just like the 6502 was a compromise so was the software written on it.  Sometimes it was bloated and sometimes it was fast it depended on the outcomes desired.

Also the idea that modern programmers are somehow less concerned with speed or bloat is a bit of a fiction.  ISA's are so complicated that compilers will generally do a better job than assembly programmers.  Not to mention that there is no longer a single target.   For example back when the PIII and P4 co-existed they had mutually exclusive optimal cases.  The PIII was a high IPC target whereas the P4 was a high-clock rate target.  So even something as simple as a memory move had to be coded very differently depending on which machine was running the code.

Familiarity with the routines and the manner in which
certain operations are accomplished within the hardware
does make that sort of analysis possible.

Compilers are able to assemble code reasonably well
and can rival experienced human coding when the
compiler itself is well designed with precise alternatives.

Our experiences have apparently been quite different.
Certain projects have no room for error or malfunction
and must be achieved with the absolute minimum of
code and memory.  Of course those projects are not
games or the types of programs the typical user would
encounter.  Coder knowledge of every detail of the
associated specialized hardware in those cases is essential.

The video was rather interesting and a typical example of
the graphics capabilities of that era.

Games have never been my bag.  I just am not able to find
that sort of entertainment worthy of any investment of time.

Far more interesting is making pyrotechnic devices which
produce spectacular aerial displays.  Now that is art!
Not nearly as spectacular as the military stuff but most enjoyable
none the less...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 22, 2015, 04:18:09 AM
Compilers are able to assemble code reasonably well and can rival experienced human coding when the compiler itself is well designed with precise alternatives.
Not rival - surpass.  On the Intel architecture you will almost never be able to beat any reasonably mature compiler - the ISA simply has too many options and performance cases.  In fact even given a single Intel target you would be lucky to find someone who has studied the architecture sufficiently to even know what the cases are.  Not even touching the fact that there are mutually exclusive performance cases on multiple targets.
 
That's not the only instance either.  The late MIPS architecture needed you to keep track of the pipeline state which isn't something you can see in a section of code just by looking at it - the compiler had to insert NOPs to avoid interlocks.
Quote
Our experiences have apparently been quite different.
No, yours is very close to the way I felt when I was sixteen.  Since then I've read many books on microprocessor architectures and probably coded more than you ever will.   Your bespoke elitism was common among the self-taught programmers.  Once I realized it was vanity I let it go.

Quote
Coder knowledge of every detail of the associated specialized hardware in those cases is essential.
Probably not and outside of some very small edge cases it's simply not feasible.
Quote
The video was rather interesting and a typical example of the graphics capabilities of that era.
I was showing it to you because I understand that hardware well enough to understand the compromises that were being made purely by observation. 
Quote
Games have never been my bag.
Please.  Your constant digging up nonsense to post here while affecting a dime-store mystic persona is a game.  Not a very challenging one either.   You'd be better served playing Halo.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 22, 2015, 04:30:50 AM
Cool I wonder if that's the same book I read a few years back.  I've also read "West of Eden", "Odyssey", "Defying Gravity" and "The little kingdom". 

If you haven't read: http://www.folklore.org/ (http://www.folklore.org/) you should. :)

Thanks for the link.  That looks really cool.  I will have a great time reading all of those posts.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 22, 2015, 07:50:45 AM
Quote from: Sarkeizen
Not rival - surpass.  On the Intel architecture you will almost never be able to beat any reasonably mature compiler - the ISA simply has too many options and performance cases.  In fact even given a single Intel target you would be lucky to find someone who has studied the architecture sufficiently to even know what the cases are.  Not even touching the fact that there are mutually exclusive performance cases on multiple targets.
 
That's not the only instance either.  The late MIPS architecture needed you to keep track of the pipeline state which isn't something you can see in a section of code just by looking at it - the compiler had to insert NOPs to avoid interlocks.

You may be correct in that assessment given the state of
today's education and how it has negatively impacted the
state of affairs technologically in America.  But for the dedicated
individuals who have the motivation, the desire and the ability to
overcome those obstacles we'd be even further behind those
nations who've already overcome the once solid American lead.

Quote from: Sarkeizen
No, yours is very close to the way I felt when I was sixteen.  Since then I've read many books on microprocessor architectures and probably coded more than you ever will.   Your bespoke elitism was common among the self-taught programmers.  Once I realized it was vanity I let it go.

In your case there is not doubt at all that it was
pure vanity and you did well to let it go.  That is
a very positive sign.  Are you working on 'letting
go' of more of it?

Suffice it to say that there are processors in use
which bear little resemblance to the advanced Intel
products designed for public consumption.  Truly
Space Age stuff.  The numbers of 'coders' who've
worked with those incredible devices is yet very
small, and, no they're not self taught  They are very
humble men.

Quote from: Sarkeizen
Probably not and outside of some very small edge cases it's simply not feasible. I was showing it to you because I understand that hardware well enough to understand the compromises that were being made purely by observation.

Please.  Your constant digging up nonsense to post here while affecting a dime-store mystic persona is a game.  Not a very challenging one either.   You'd be better served playing Halo.

The desperation just never ceases does it?
Sarkey, you do seem to have some talent and
some amount of intelligence.  Unfortunately
(make that Very Unfortunately) your preoccupation
with bolstering your artificial 'supremacist' persona
detracts from what little credibility you infrequently
reveal.  You are very amusing though...
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 22, 2015, 02:51:07 PM
You may be correct in that assessment given the state of today's education and how it has negatively impacted the
state of affairs technologically in America.
No it has nothing to do with your ideas about education in the USA.  It's just that given the same amount of time allocated to study of the Intel ISA you will not be able to produce the same level of results as you did with the 6502.  In my house alone I have maybe five machines.  Of those machines four of them are different ISA targets.  So each of them has optimizations it responds to.  Many of them will have mutually exclusive optimal cases.  My D525 Atom requires code-reordering for optimal performance but it also has ssse3 which would make it distinct from even other Atoms, my WS machine has twelve cores, unless hyper-threading is enabled then it has 24 pseudo-cores.  My laptop has specific instructions which target AES encryption - AES256 is 10x faster using these.

It is simply erroneous to assume that today you can just break open a manual and read cycle timings and create optimal code.

Quote
Suffice it to say that there are processors in use which bear little resemblance to the advanced Intel products designed for public consumption.
Oh really?  Name two.
Quote
Sarkey, you do seem to have some talent and some amount of intelligence.  Unfortunately (make that Very Unfortunately) your preoccupation with bolstering your artificial 'supremacist' persona detracts from what little credibility you infrequently reveal.  You are very amusing though...
I'd say you're more sad than amusing.  I've sat here and responded to your arguments with clear and straightforward counters.  I've shown you cycle timings for various instructions.  I clearly know this stuff better than you but either to keep up your dime-store mystic persona or because you really are deluded you have to say (or tell yourself) "no it's not like that, I have secret knowledge that counters that but I can't hold it up for examination".

Even if this is just a persona it seems rather than making up all this shit you could spend that time actually learning something to do with microprocessors...or playing video games but both of those are considerably harder than just making up stories that you can sort of half-believe to feel better about wherever your life is right now.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 22, 2015, 07:50:44 PM
Quote from: Sarkeizen
No it has nothing to do with your ideas about education in the USA.  It's just that given the same amount of time allocated to study of the Intel ISA you will not be able to produce the same level of results as you did with the 6502.
...
It is simply erroneous to assume that today you can just break open a manual and read cycle timings and create optimal code.
...

In Truth, cycle timings have little to do with creating
'optimal code.'  It is much more about using the
resources of the processor in innovative ways to
accomplish a given task with the associated hardware.

Breaking out of the 'established norm' and trying
unconventional procedures.  Thinking outside the 'box.'

But it would seem that such behavior is alien to your
marriage to the MATRIX.  Your mental 'programming' will
not permit the freedom of innovation.  You obviously
have dread fear over being thought of as an "independent"
thinker.  Which of course well explains your constant
Pathetic Refrains.  A Mind is a Terrible Thing to Waste...

The 6502 is ancient history.  I wonder why you seem to
be stuck there...

Then again, you are amusing.  It is fun watching you
as you struggle to attain intellectual dominance.  A
failed effort to be sure.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 22, 2015, 08:58:57 PM
In Truth, cycle timings have little to do with creating 'optimal code.'
Spoken like someone without a clue.  If you had a CPU where moving values between registers  took seven hundred billion cycles and another did it in one.  You would approach coding radically differently between the two.  Hence optimal code has everything to do with cycle timings. :)   
Quote
The 6502 is ancient history.  I wonder why you seem to be stuck there...
I'm not why would you think that? Perhaps you're not listening?
Quote
It is fun watching you as you struggle to attain intellectual dominance.
I think you have to know something before anyone would consider you worth dominating.   Let me know when you do.

I notice that you've been unable to name the non-Intel CPU's that you referenced as "real space age stuff".   Who buys these fictions you come up with?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 22, 2015, 10:04:54 PM
Quote from: Sarke
Spoken like someone without a clue.  If you had a CPU where moving values between registers  took seven hundred billion cycles and another did it in one.  You would approach coding radically differently between the two.  Hence optimal code has everything to do with cycle timings. :)

Your rather childish example belies a true lack
of comprehension.  Selecting the proper instructions
to accomplish a given task reliably and without any
possibility of error is of paramount importance.  With,
that is, the present style of microprocessor architecture
and its sequential execution model.  There are, fortunately,
other options available to some few.

Quote from: Sarke
I notice that you've been unable to name the non-Intel CPU's that you referenced as "real space age stuff".   Who buys these fictions you come up with?

I would not (spoon feeding) name them.  That is for you
to discover by your own effort.  Although, it is very unlikely
that you will have the ability to do so.  In which case you'll
simply have to wait until disclosure is made to the hoi polloi.

In the meantime look up into the sky and beyond.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 22, 2015, 10:09:45 PM
Your rather childish example belies a true lack of comprehension.  Selecting the proper instructions
to accomplish a given task reliably and without any possibility of error is of paramount importance.
The question was about optimal code.  Code that performs a task seven million times slower than other code that performs the same task is even by SeaMonkey standards (the lowest rank on the universal scale of critical thinking) sub-optimal. 

So let me know, when you know something and then we can talk. :)

Quote
I would not (spoon feeding) name them.
So in other words you made this up as part of your dime-store mystic persona.  Thanks for the heads up. :)

Seriously does anyone actually BUY the whole "I know more than you act" you put on?  It's not exactly very convincing. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 22, 2015, 10:21:26 PM
Quote from: Sarizen
...
Seriously does anyone actually BUY the whole "I know more than you act" you put on?  It's not exactly very convincing. :)

Nay, it is not about knowing more than anyone else,
it is simply about having been in places others are
not able to enter.  Whether anyone believes what
is revealed here or not is unimportant.  In due time
it will be undeniably evident to all.

You really need to extricate yourself from your MATRIX
imposed box-like prison of the mind and breathe the
fresh air of Freedom.  Dare to be different.  See what
is really going on.  Search for Truth.

I know, I know.  Fear keeps you locked up.
 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 22, 2015, 10:48:03 PM
Quote from: me
Seriously does anyone actually BUY the whole "I know more than you act" you put on?  It's not exactly very convincing. :)
Nay
Nobody buys it?  Well that's a relief. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 23, 2015, 09:12:30 PM
If vaccines and vaccinations had proven to be safe,
effective and non-hazardous then there would be
no opposition.

But, in Truth, they have not and people are concerned. (http://www.zengardner.com/california-parents-voice-resounding-no-forced-vaccines/)

The Medical Industry utilizes the same sort of deception
which characterizes all other corrupt institutions:  It
presents a facade of uprightness, genuine concern and
complete knowledge in order to cover over its ulterior
program of continuous disease amongst the people.

The Love of Money coupled with the psychopathic nature
of those who gravitate to the top of the institutions spells
pain and suffering for those who are deceived by them.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 23, 2015, 09:20:55 PM
If vaccines and vaccinations had proven to be safe, effective and non-hazardous then there would be no opposition.

Yawn.  Define: "safe", "effective" and "proven".

Whoops.  You can't. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 24, 2015, 09:11:29 AM
Quote from: Sarizen
Yawn.  Define: "safe", "effective" and "proven".

Whoops.  You can't. :)

Those 'terms' have already been defined by the
Institutional Advocates and Policy Makers.  In fact,
you've already indicated what those definitions are
by your unfettered support.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 24, 2015, 12:59:28 PM
Those 'terms' have already been defined by the Institutional Advocates and Policy Makers.  In fact, you've already indicated what those definitions are by your unfettered support.
Which would be relevant if it was related to the asked question.  However it's not.  YOU were making a claim about "safe" "proven" and "effective" obviously you were using your definitions there.  It seems entirely reasonable to know what those are.

Although it's not actually surprising that you haven't the faintest clue what you mean. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 24, 2015, 07:59:46 PM
Quote from: Skeizen
...
Although it's not actually surprising that you haven't the faintest clue what you mean. :)

The atrocious record speaks for itself.

Which brings us back to why there is opposition to
people being maimed and made dead by vaccinations.

You're batting about 00.00 Sark.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 24, 2015, 08:08:03 PM
The atrocious record speaks for itself.
That you don't know what you're talking about?  Yes your record does speak loudly that you know less than a shit sandwich.

Again if you had something to say, then defining your terms is entirely reasonable.  Since you refuse, it's likely you have nothing to say. :)

Thanks for admitting that. :)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 25, 2015, 03:40:50 AM
Quote
Well, IF I thought that you really had $10,000 and would actually pay up, I would do it.  I have been playing with and building computers since the old Intel 8088 chip back in the early 80's.  I know some code but don't really write software so, you should be clear on if the question is do you know more about hardware, or software than I do.  Or are you claiming both?  Have you ever even built a computer?  If you have, which I doubt, did you realize that you need to use JB Weld, or some other epoxy, during the construction or it will not work for very long?

I'll bet you didn't even know that.

Do you even know what thermal compound is?  Do you know when and where to use it?

I didn't think so.

Save your imaginary money Joel and please try to read some books prior to posting about technical subjects.

lol bill trust me I know more about computers than you regarding all aspects about them. Period. You know why that is? Like I have already mentioned that in order for someone to understand something ONE NEEDS TO LOOK AT IT FROM DIFFERENT ANGLES.

I already mentioned that that is how the eyes perception work = why we see in 3 dimencional. That is how GPS work = triangulation, this also applies to cell phone antennas.

Now you are asking me if I know about thermal compound! Why no I don't. I don't even know that there is diamond powder, gold powder, silver powder, etc thermal compound. Lol

Tell me how to over-clock a CPU?
Tell me how to over-clock a GPU?
Tell me what is virtualization in a computer? Like OS e.g. vortualbox, CD-ROM virtualization, Browser virtualization like google chrome implements. Etc.
Tell me how do you do a back up image of your OS?
Tell me what services do you disable, say in windows 7, in the services.msc?
Tell me how to set up a server?
Tell me what's the difference between ubuntu, debian, and linux mint?
Tell me how to open up a ps3, ps4, and wii system to jailbreak it? (i.e. install homebrew channel)
Tell me how to water coolking the CPU works?

I can go on and on about how much more I know about computers because I look at the from different angles to view the big picture. That is the way one should look at vaccines and not just swallow the fat pill that everything that someone tells you, you should believe.

Like I said bill, I don't want to take your money :P

Now back on topic.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 25, 2015, 03:58:20 AM
lol bill trust me I know more about computers than you regarding all aspects about them. Period. You know why that is? Like I have already mentioned that in order for someone to understand something ONE NEEDS TO LOOK AT IT FROM DIFFERENT ANGLES.

I already mentioned that that is how the eyes perception work = why we see in 3 dimencional. That is how GPS work = triangulation, this also applies to cell phone antennas.

Now you are asking me if I know about thermal compound! Why no I don't. I don't even know that there is diamond powder, gold powder, silver powder, etc thermal compound. Lol

Tell me how to over-clock a CPU?
Tell me how to over-clock a GPU?
Tell me what is virtualization in a computer? Like OS e.g. vortualbox, CD-ROM virtualization, Browser virtualization like google chrome implements. Etc.
Tell me how do you do a back up image of your OS?
Tell me what services do you disable, say in windows 7, in the services.msc?
Tell me how to set up a server?
Tell me what's the difference between ubuntu, debian, and linux mint?
Tell me how to open up a ps3, ps4, and wii system to jailbreak it? (i.e. install homebrew channel)
Tell me how to water coolking the CPU works?

I can go on and on about how much more I know about computers because I look at the from different angles to view the big picture. That is the way one should look at vaccines and not just swallow the fat pill that everything that someone tells you, you should believe.

Like I said bill, I don't want to take your money :P

Now back on topic.

Joel:

It is very funny, and sad, that while you claim to know all of these things about computers, you ask me how to do basic things with them.

You really don't know how to overclock a CPU?  (I am running at 4.6 GHz)  If you don't know how to do this, just read some books...why ask me?

This is too funny.  Keep looking at computers from different angles and all you will get is a stiff neck.

The questions you have asked me are so very basic...come on...really?  Just look them up online if you don't know the answers.

Bill

Not knowing how epoxy is used in building a state of the art computer is really basic 101 stuff Joel...you flunked..ha ha.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 25, 2015, 04:05:59 AM
Quote
(I am running at 4.6 Ghz)

Show me a screenshot of what CPUZ says cause I don't quite believe that. Take the screenshot of CPUZ with the browser on overunity in the background so I can see is legit on not copy/paste from the interwebs.

Quote
The questions you have asked me are so very basic...come on...really?

Oh yeah, you know how to jailbreak a PS3, PS4, Wii, heck even a smart phone or a router?

That answer shows that you are just replying to one up me and if they are sooooo simple questions, why don't you bother to answer? Maybe because you don't know?

I think that epoxied loose screw needs more epoxy on it. :P
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 25, 2015, 04:44:23 AM
Show me a screenshot of what CPUZ says cause I don't quite believe that. Take the screenshot of CPUZ with the browser on overunity in the background so I can see is legit on not copy/paste from the interwebs.

Oh yeah, you know how to jailbreak a PS3, PS4, Wii, heck even a smart phone or a router?

That answer shows that you are just replying to one up me and if they are sooooo simple questions, why don't you bother to answer? Maybe because you don't know?

I think that epoxied loose screw needs more epoxy on it. :P

Hell Joel, my last computer which was 8 years old was running at 4.2 GHz.  I do not want to overdrive this one too much.  This speed is fine for it with no heating problems.  No water cooling or any exotic cooling methods required.

Sorry you do not understand how to do this as evidenced by the fact that you don't believe me.  No great feat really, my CPU stock runs at 3.4 GHz and it is 64 bit.  (I hope you understand what that means...if not...look it up)

The simple fact that you do not realize the importance for epoxy in building a decent computer tells me you know nothing and trying to answer all of your simple questions would be nothing but a waste of time.

You don't even know how to run at 4.6 GHz so, this tells me a lot about what you do not know.

I do not know how to unlock smart phones as I do not use a smart phone.  That is fine if you want the NSA monitoring all of your communications but, in my business, it is better to remain black. (Again, look it up if you do not understand)  My phone can not be monitored...let's just leave it at that.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 25, 2015, 05:44:59 AM
Quote
Hell Joel, my last computer which was 8 years old was running at 4.2 GHz.  I do not want to overdrive this one too much.  This speed is fine for it with no heating problems.  No water cooling or any exotic cooling methods required.

Ok lets say I do believe you. Did you run prime95 for at least 48 hours to render it stable – no blu screaans?

Is not that I don't believe you bill, it is just that you have to explain the process in order for it to be legit and get it over with...but if you don't want to show proof then I guess it's just word of mouth.

Quote
Sorry you do not understand how to do this as evidenced by the fact that you don't believe me.  No great feat really, my CPU stock runs at 3.4 GHz and it is 64 bit.

The only way for someone to believe your claims is for you to show proof. And yes I know about 64bit. If you have an i7 CPU I know all about intel HT technology, XD bit capability, intel speed step tech, intel c state tech, speed spectrum, intel turbo mode, etc which requires the understanding to over clock a CPU and keep it stable. When you runprime95 for at least 24 hours, it should show it is stable. But you don't talk about any of that in your response on how to over clock the right way a CPU...maybe you just went in the BIOS and changed the CPU BCLK multiplier and that's  it?

Quote
The simple fact that you do not realize the importance for epoxy in building a decent computer tells me you know nothing and trying to answer all of your simple questions would be nothing but a waste of time.

I have seen some heat sinks being epoxied to the CPU's yes. Like in that 2000 Celeron in the picture. That stuff around it is epoxy. But i'm sure is not JB weld non-theless it is epoxy if that what you mean by importance. Other than that, I have never used epoxy myself to “build” a computer.

Quote
You don't even know how to run at 4.6 GHz so, this tells me a lot about what you do not know.

Is not that I don't know, is just that I don't believe you have overclocked one at those speeds. :)

Quote
I do not know how to unlock smart phones as I do not use a smart phone.  That is fine if you want the NSA monitoring all of your communications but, in my business, it is better to remain black. (Again, look it up if you do not understand)  My phone can not be monitored...let's just leave it at that.
You can be monitored by just the phone number alone. Heck you cannot even buy a pre-paid disposable phone anymore here, not even pre-paid crdit card when a few years back you could.

You have no privacy even the computer OS's have backdoors that big brother can monitor. I remember that even firewalls have backdoors build into them that would send packets through HTTPS to an unknown IP address.

The internet now is going through big brothers servers ever since the towers incidents (mainly through AT&T since they are the big pipes). The law to monitor everyone has being going on ever since then. But that is another subject for another sub-forum.

This kind of relates to medicine in a way because they want to monitor/control everyone.

Take for example this story about ADHD I read today:

http://time.com/3822755/adhd-disease-called-childhood/

What do you think is going on there?


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 25, 2015, 06:42:39 AM
This kind of relates to medicine in a way because they want to monitor/control everyone.
Who is "they"?  Do you believe in "lizard people" now like SeaMonkey?
Quote
Take for example this story about ADHD I read today:

http://time.com/3822755/adhd-disease-called-childhood/

What do you think is going on there?
It's hard to say there are a lot of weird things about the article.  I can't tell if it was written in a way to make the timescale look compressed, if this is some exception in medical care or if the person reporting is lying.  Take for example:

Quote
Worried about Aiden’s disruptive behavior at school, Ava and Scott took him to the pediatrician. The doctor said Aiden had enough symptoms of hyperactivity, impulsiveness, and inattention to warrant a diagnosis of ADHD. he pediatrician wrote a prescription for Adderall. Before giving Aiden the medicine, however, his parents decided to consult me to find out if there was some other way to help him apart from medication.

This sounds like they walked into a doctors office and walked out with an Adderall prescription.  That is pretty unlikely.  Diagnosis requires the doctor establish a pattern of behavior that is atypical for their developmental level.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 25, 2015, 08:00:23 AM
Quote
Who is "they"?  Do you believe in "lizard people" now like SeaMonkey?

“They” are those that want to take our ability to think for ourselves to find ingenuity to solve world problems that would benefit everyone including the longevity of the earth!

“They” are those that worship the ATOM religiously and worship the money (GREED) since the ATOM has set in stone these rules.

-Greed is ok. Take advantage of your neighbor at any cause.
-You are better than everyone else if you hold the greatest weapons of mass destruction.
-Make people work for your company as slaves no matter what the cause. If they get the flu, mandatory for the flu shot for everyone cause the flu shot stops the flu spreading 100%! in the office = more company profits - cha ching! Mula! .

If by lizard people you mean aliens like “dark matter”, why should I not believe in “lizard people” if the highest minds believe in “dark matter”? If we do the math, should not there be any other life form in the outer universe that are different looking from us? Heck, lizard people, regarding evolution, would be more advanced than us. For one) greater ability to digest foods. (bone and all).  Two) Tougher outer skin. (no paper cuts lol). Three) Greater sense of smell both with nose and tongues. And who does not need a tail for balance? Lol Let me see you climb a banana tree with no tail?

Would you not want to be a lizard people?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Farmhand on April 25, 2015, 08:08:52 AM
Hell Joel, my last computer which was 8 years old was running at 4.2 GHz.  I do not want to overdrive this one too much.  This speed is fine for it with no heating problems.  No water cooling or any exotic cooling methods required.

Sorry you do not understand how to do this as evidenced by the fact that you don't believe me.  No great feat really, my CPU stock runs at 3.4 GHz and it is 64 bit.  (I hope you understand what that means...if not...look it up)

The simple fact that you do not realize the importance for epoxy in building a decent computer tells me you know nothing and trying to answer all of your simple questions would be nothing but a waste of time.

You don't even know how to run at 4.6 GHz so, this tells me a lot about what you do not know.

I do not know how to unlock smart phones as I do not use a smart phone.  That is fine if you want the NSA monitoring all of your communications but, in my business, it is better to remain black. (Again, look it up if you do not understand)  My phone can not be monitored...let's just leave it at that.

Bill

From Vaccinations to overclocking computers, awesome. Nice drift.

So Bill, you like to overclock your computers as well hey. I have a socket 939 AMD Opteron 165 X2 (default speed 1.8 Ghz) and I overclocked that to 3.5 Ghz, I just fell short of the double speed or 100% increase. I did that in three different motherboards two Asus A8R32-MVP's one was the A8R32-MVP Deluxe and also on a Sapphire PC-A9RD580 PURE crossfire motherboard. The memory was Mushkin DDR 500, can't recall the settings exactly, but I intend to relive the past and rebuild that computer, very soon on the Sapphire board. And I will get CPU-Z shots ect. I had shots of when I did it back in 2008-9 uploaded to an overclocking website but I cannot find the post. I just bought some cheap AM2+ parts and will be building a slightly newer overclocker-gaming computer for windows 7 ect. games (3d shooters and simulators). I bought a dual core Athlon II 245 (standard speed 2.9 Ghz - can overclock to 3.5 stable or more (going on the info I have), I'll try for 3.8 Ghz. It runs DDR2 ram and I have DDR2 1066 ram for it.
Which allows me to set the bus speed to 400 for a default ram speed of DDR800 then when I increase the bus clock on the "Locked multiplier" CPU the ram speed can increase without going over it's rated speed as I overclock the cpu, first I find the maximum cpu speed, then I adjust to find the maximum ram speed and fastest or best timings for the ram without pushing the cpu over it's fastest stable speed.

I expect that the older 939 setup overclocked to 3.5 Ghz will be faster at cpu and ram operations than the slightly newer socket AM2+ at the same speeds as it has lower latency ram. However the AM2+ has a higher possible hyper transport link and bus speeds, so it'll be an interesting comparison, I even have two matching cases to build them in. Biggest pain is getting windows XP installed with all the hardware drivers properly installed. I think I can get them all still.

It all depends if I damaged any of the old parts, as I was experimenting with my Tesla coil very close to where they were stored.

The computer I'm using now has a Athlon X2 6000+ and standard speed 3.0 Ghz but the 6000+ cpu won't overclock much so it's not worth it, I use this one at standard speed.

ocerclocked computers seem to work faster than computers not overclocked at the same speed. Likely because of the overclocked setup using more power, and having the memory timings and settings "tuned". I also used to use 2 HDD's in RAID 0 mode for increased System disk speed, but now we have Solid State Drives for that bottleneck. Yay  ;D

Some cpu's don't like to be overclocked and some don't mind too much and a small number of cpu's seem to like being overclocked. Some cpu models have cpu with different stepping codes and some will overclock better than others even of the same model and type, just made at a different place or time.

P.S. Some Vaccinations are harmful some not so bad. I'm surrounded by people who have had the flu vax but I don't get the jab or the flu so I'm cool with that, I take the tetanus jabs when I get messy injuries. Just to write some on topic stuff for fun.

..
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 25, 2015, 08:22:04 AM
Quote
This sounds like they walked into a doctors office and walked out with an Adderall prescription.  That is pretty unlikely.  Diagnosis requires the doctor establish a pattern of behavior that is atypical for their developmental level.

Yeah well there are doctors that operate on the wrong side of the leg or leave tools inside the patient. THAT”S HOW STUPID SIMPLE IT IS FOR DOCTORS TO OPERATE! THE HUMAN BODY HEALS ITSELF NOT THE DOCTORS HEAL THE BODY!

You make it sounds like medicine works 100% when I have asked you time and time again simple questions, what is the cure for the flu virus? Yet I know you have no answer because 100% there is none. I already told you that prevention is the cure just as you would not step on a land mind and loose a foot, IT IS NOT A MATTER OF REPEARING A LOST LIMB BUT RATHER PREVENTING A LOST LIMB IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!

To put it simple, the only way we know about viruses that cause death is after someone dies, plain and simple. If it was the other way around, there would be no human dying from viruses ever again. The virus specialist are only DOING what they can and are overwhelmed with billions of viruses and math viruses combinations that what can do best is “understand” one STRAIN at a time where at the micro level, “evolution” changes so rapidly that they have no CHANCE to know EVERYTHING. Heck, there could be viruses that mutate every day, how to “cure” those if a human has one of those? HMMMM let me think!!!! Well here is a NEVER BEFORE ida...hmmmm,...How about prevention? IOW, no medicine to cure the virus if it never enters the body? Well, is not that LOGISTICS?

If a virus is moving at the speed of light, let me see you find a “vaccine” in your lab on a rat or monkey? How to see a pattern in a virus moving at a speed of light “evolution?

To get back to the article, let me hear how would you DIAGNOSE an ADHD patient? And after the diagnose, how would you “cure” the patient? Name any pill, any drug, the Goal is to cure! But first you have to define why the patient is ill?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 25, 2015, 09:50:59 AM


But first you have to define why the patient is ill?



The patient is probably ill from reading your inane posts, ha ha.

The cure?  I would tell him to stop reading your posts.  Case solved.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 25, 2015, 10:24:02 AM
Quote
The patient is probably ill from reading your inane posts, ha ha.

The cure?  I would tell him to stop reading your posts.  Case solved.

Sooo many opportunities for you to show proof anf yet soooo many let downs. You have ADD, you like to change topic over and over again sir. Hmmm three paragraphs ago we where talking about over-clocking a CPU which I asked many questions to see that MAYBE YOU KNOW MORE THAN I DO, and I get this pathetic reply. = Pathetic brain thinking. 

Yet again your brain way of thinking capabilities disappoint! = entertainment only! Hey clown, why don't you cup your hand, fart in it, and transfer the fart to your nose and then smell it for all to LOL? Because There is no much greater brain power to get from your head lol. I'm afraid you have a disease it's called living-in-lala-land disease. You seem to say that you know something, when you are really PAINFULLY shows like an open wound that you are mistakenly very very wrong. Lol  Pour alcohol on  those wounds bill. You are wounded all over the skin.

Remembers decades ago when I asked you how you overclocked a CPU? NEVER gave an answer!!! lol Now you have no LOGICAL AUTHORITY to talk about further logistics if you skipped that = PURE entertainment from now on!

Lets all hear it for bill, the vaccinations sub-forum clown. Watch him eat fire! Watch him JB weld his diabetic heart valves.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 25, 2015, 10:42:40 AM
Sooo many opportunities for you to show proof anf yet soooo many let downs. You have ADD, you like to change topic over and over again sir. Hmmm three paragraphs ago we where talking about over-clocking a CPU which I asked many questions to see that MAYBE YOU KNOW MORE THAN I DO, and I get this pathetic reply. = Pathetic brain thinking. 

Yet again your brain way of thinking capabilities disappoint! = entertainment only! Hey clown, why don't you cup your hand, fart in it, and transfer the fart to your nose and then smell it for all to LOL? Because There is no much greater brain power to get from your head lol. I'm afraid you have a disease it's called living-in-lala-land disease. You seem to say that you know something, when you are really PAINFULLY shows like an open wound that you are mistakenly very very wrong. Lol  Pour alcohol on  those wounds bill. You are wounded all over the skin.

Remembers decades ago when I asked you how you overclocked a CPU? NEVER gave an answer!!! lol Now you have no LOGICAL AUTHORITY to talk about further logistics if you skipped that = PURE entertainment from now on!

Lets all hear it for bill, the vaccinations sub-forum clown. Watch him eat fire! Watch him JB weld his diabetic heart valves.

I use ClockGen.  It is free and it works well.  I am not going to try to tell you how to o'clock your CPU because if you don't know what you are doing...your computer will fry.  You asked how I do it?  That is how.  Simple, easy and fast.

Please do not try this at home.  While ClockGen does not recommend JB Weld specifically, I can tell you that after trying several other epoxies, JB Weld works the best.  But, use whatever you think you need to at your own risk.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 25, 2015, 02:31:14 PM
“They” are those that want to take our ability to think for ourselves
Sounds like you. :)  Who takes away someones ability to think for themselves.  People who have no idea about hypothesis testing and who spread propaganda.  That's Joel, SeaMonkey, Allcanadian, Cap-Z-Ro, Tink, etc...
Quote
If by lizard people you mean aliens like “dark matter”, why should I not believe in “lizard people” if the highest minds believe in “dark matter”? If we do the math, should not there be any other life form in the outer universe that are different looking from us?
I can only barely translate from Troll into English here.  Are you saying that dark matter has less evidence than believing in a secret group of intelligent lizards who run the world? 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 25, 2015, 02:45:51 PM
Yeah well there are doctors that operate on the wrong side of the leg or leave tools inside the patient.
Which is exceptionally rare. So this isn't about medicine it's about that people make mistakes.
Quote
You make it sounds like medicine works 100%
Considering I've never said that, and actually have said things that contradict that you would have to be exceptionally stupid to think that about me...and since you are Joel...it's pretty obvious that you are exceptionally stupid.
Quote
when I have asked you time and time again simple questions, what is the cure for the flu virus?
I've asked you an even more simple question "What do you mean by 'cure'?" and you refuse to answer.
Quote
Yet I know you have no answer because 100% there is none.
If you can satisfactorily define "cure" I can answer no problem. :)  I wonder why you keep refusing? :)
Quote
I already told you that prevention is the cure
See this is why you need to define terms because that phrase - in English - doesn't make sense.  Since I don't speak Troll very well.  I need a definition.

I deleted a bunch of stuff in Troll.  You'll have to rephrase in English for me to respond.
Quote
let me hear how would you DIAGNOSE an ADHD patient?
I'm not a doctor so I can't make a diagnosis.  I just noted that the standard for making a diagnosis requires establishing a pattern of behavior.  The article seems like this was not done.  So again if there's a criticism here it's not about medicine.
Quote
And after the diagnose, how would you “cure” the patient?
Define "cure" and I'll answer that.  Since you refuse I figure you don't know what you're talking about.
Quote
But first you have to define why the patient is ill?
Etiology is not the same as diagnosis. :) 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 26, 2015, 01:12:24 AM
Sark's World:
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 26, 2015, 02:11:05 AM
http://www.jbweld.com/ (http://www.jbweld.com/)

Great stuff on this site.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on April 26, 2015, 02:33:33 AM
Seasoned Investigative Journalist Exposes Inside Strategies to Censor Newshttp://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/04/26/media-obstruction-intimidation-harassment.aspx
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB3_JPBBUH4
SeaMonkey, thank you for your good posts!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on April 26, 2015, 02:37:27 AM
Seasoned Investigative Journalist Exposes Inside Strategies to Censor News
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/04/26/media-obstruction-intimidation-harassment.aspx
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB3_JPBBUH4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB3_JPBBUH4)
SeaMonkey, thank you for your good posts!
(HartiBerlin, I can not modify my post, what is going on?)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 26, 2015, 02:50:09 AM
Tink:

You should be able to modify for about 1/2 hours or so....after that...Only Stefan can modify.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 26, 2015, 03:33:19 AM
Quote
I use ClockGen.  It is free and it works well.  I am not going to try to tell you how to o'clock your CPU because if you don't know what you are doing...your computer will fry.  You asked how I do it?  That is how.  Simple, easy and fast.

Wut? ClockGen lol From google that last release date was on 2012 PLUS you call yourself a know-how in over clocking and you give me this ClockGen clown of a software.

http://files.extremeoverclocking.com/images/cgpllcontrol.png

Plus the computer will never FRY lol. You think the engineers of such advance CPUs do not implement self over heating monitoring to shut down themselves when temperatures pass a certain point. Lol You don't know anything about over-clocking, the evidence shows clearly bill.

You used ClockGen to over-clock an i7-4790k? lol Yeah that's over-clocking alright, install linux in that over-clocked rig you have there bill?

Also, I saw a post where Pirate posted this CPUZ image claiming that it is his. Which a simple google showed that he copy/pasted from the internet lol. Moreover, ClockGen would never work on an i7-4790k. Wow bill I mean just WOW!

http://valid.x86.fr/cache/screenshot/3ufmqq.png

Plus you said 4.6Ghz not 4.2Ghz...The lies are great with this one. Lol

Now with such evidence I cannot find you serious when talking about medicine nor vaccinations at all.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 26, 2015, 04:10:43 AM
Wut? ClockGen lol From google that last release date was on 2012 PLUS you call yourself a know-how in over clocking and you give me this ClockGen clown of a software.

http://files.extremeoverclocking.com/images/cgpllcontrol.png (http://files.extremeoverclocking.com/images/cgpllcontrol.png)

Plus the computer will never FRY lol. You think the engineers of such advance CPUs do not implement self over heating monitoring to shut down themselves when temperatures pass a certain point. Lol You don't know anything about over-clocking, the evidence shows clearly bill.

You used ClockGen to over-clock an i7-4790k? lol Yeah that's over-clocking alright, install linux in that over-clocked rig you have there bill?

Also, I saw a post where Pirate posted this CPUZ image claiming that it is his. Which a simple google showed that he copy/pasted from the internet lol. Moreover, ClockGen would never work on an i7-4790k. Wow bill I mean just WOW!

http://valid.x86.fr/cache/screenshot/3ufmqq.png (http://valid.x86.fr/cache/screenshot/3ufmqq.png)

Plus you said 4.6Ghz not 4.2Ghz...The lies are great with this one. Lol

Now with such evidence I cannot find you serious when talking about medicine nor vaccinations at all.

What the hell are you talking about?

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 26, 2015, 04:28:50 AM
^seriously? lol

I'm talking about ClockGen and that picture you deleted. = you are making things up. It's plain obvious bill.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 26, 2015, 07:19:03 AM
Sarkchicken, look how parasites work.

http://i.imgur.com/0CCsvqg.gifv

How about this jewel of beauty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasma_gondii

Pay attention to this:
“previous estimates have shown the highest prevalence of persons infected with T. gondii to be in France, at 84% “
I'm 100% certain the average human being does not even know about those controlling parasites. Is not just the flu, AIDS, STD, dandruff, fungus, thief, obesity, depression, ADHD, mercury in the body, artificial sugars, big brother taking your house, etc one needs to understand the prevention off! 
I have never in my life heard or seen a commercial warning the cat owners about this?

How about this?

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/toxoplasmas-dark-side-the-link-between-parasite-and-suicide/

Where is the vaccination for those? Where is the pill for those parasites?

Oh you say vaccinations prevent all ailments? Well, you are not looking at things from different angles.  And you keep the people around you ignorant?

Maybe a parasite is controlling humans brains that make humans "find cats as pets"?

Why would anyone like a cat as a pet if not by being controlled by a parasite? Yawn! let me guess, no one has done research regarding that!

Actually, sarkchicken, what is your expertize regarding in the medicinal field?

You can't be the expert about everything medicinal, can you?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeizen on April 26, 2015, 06:16:29 PM
“previous estimates have shown the highest prevalence of persons infected with T. gondii to be in France, at 84% “
Did you read that study?  Nope.

Interesting fact that figure is, according to the study on the Wiki page.  Referencing a 1974 paper which doesn't use that figure at all. 
Quote
I have never in my life heard or seen a commercial warning the cat owners about this?
Well a) there isn't a significant increase in risk - even the Wiki article says that b) If it's a housecat the risk is practically zero c) Most pet owners know about this through their vet because toxoplasmosis is a concern for pregnant women.
Quote
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/toxoplasmas-dark-side-the-link-between-parasite-and-suicide/
Quote
Where is the vaccination for those?
A vaccine is for viruses not parasites.
Quote
Where is the pill for those parasites?
You can clear an infection with a pyrimethamine, at least one antibiotic or some sulfa drugs.
Quote
Oh you say vaccinations prevent all ailments?
I've told you several times that I've never said that. 
Quote
Well, you are not looking at things from different angles.
If there's one person here with tunnel vision - it's you.
Quote
Why would anyone like a cat as a pet if not by being controlled by a parasite? Yawn! let me guess, no one has done research regarding that!
No need.  Simply because scientists don't believe that medicine is magic.  In order for a compound to send a message to your brain the message has to be relatively simple.  Why?  Information theory.  It takes a complex messenger to send a complex message.  Feeling bad about yourself is a simple message, this is confirmed by the number of chemical risk factors there are in suicide.  Owning a pet is a complex social moire.  So it's exceptionally unlikely (or magical thinking) that there could be a compound that does this.
Quote
Actually, sarkchicken, what is your expertize regarding in the medicinal field?
Sorry I don't talk about my job to random strangers.
Quote
You can't be the expert about everything medicinal, can you?
I have no idea.  You can be better than Joel in everything medicinal pretty easily. 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 27, 2015, 01:43:41 AM
Sarkchicken, look how parasites work.

http://i.imgur.com/0CCsvqg.gifv (http://i.imgur.com/0CCsvqg.gifv)

How about this jewel of beauty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasma_gondii (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasma_gondii)

Pay attention to this:
“previous estimates have shown the highest prevalence of persons infected with T. gondii to be in France, at 84% “
I'm 100% certain the average human being does not even know about those controlling parasites. Is not just the flu, AIDS, STD, dandruff, fungus, thief, obesity, depression, ADHD, mercury in the body, artificial sugars, big brother taking your house, etc one needs to understand the prevention off! 
I have never in my life heard or seen a commercial warning the cat owners about this?

How about this?

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/toxoplasmas-dark-side-the-link-between-parasite-and-suicide/ (http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/toxoplasmas-dark-side-the-link-between-parasite-and-suicide/)

Where is the vaccination for those? Where is the pill for those parasites?

Oh you say vaccinations prevent all ailments? Well, you are not looking at things from different angles.  And you keep the people around you ignorant?

Maybe a parasite is controlling humans brains that make humans "find cats as pets"?

Why would anyone like a cat as a pet if not by being controlled by a parasite? Yawn! let me guess, no one has done research regarding that!

Actually, sarkchicken, what is your expertize regarding in the medicinal field?

You can't be the expert about everything medicinal, can you?

Do you even think before you post?

I mean, you are making less and less sense with each posting.

I think that the only person who knows what the heck you are talking about is you.

Bill

PS  I have always had cats as pets.  A survey clearly shows that folks with a higher I.Q. have cats as pets.

Oh, you don't have any?

I am not surprised.  That survey is correct evidently.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 27, 2015, 03:21:47 AM
The Mental Magnet of the MATRIX:
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 27, 2015, 05:38:28 AM
Quote
I think that the only person who knows what the heck you are talking about is you.

Bill

PS  I have always had cats as pets.  A survey clearly shows that folks with a higher I.Q. have cats as pets.

Oh, you don't have any?

I am not surprised.  That survey is correct evidently.

Does not matter if you have always had cats. For all I know your brain could have toxoplasma right now.

I'm not saying you don't have the right to have a cat as a pet, I'm saying toxoplasma uses mainly cats as hosts to reproduce.

Just because you say you have always had cat pets does not eliminate the probability of toxoplasma getting in your brain and manipulating you to like cats?

From wikipedia, and I quote, " In humans, it is one of the most common parasites". "The parasite infects most genera of warm-blooded animals, including humans, but the primary host is the felid (cat) family." Would not a cat owner be more likely to have it that the one that does not own one? Do the math?

You cannot know you have it but logistics would show that you are at a higher risk from those that don't own cats. So I would not feel comfortable knowing that you may be carrying this parasite if you come in contact with me. :P

Mr jbweld.
Mr cpu over-clocker.
Mr professional regarding advertisement.

Lol what else you pretend to know about?

Quote
A survey clearly shows that folks with a higher I.Q. have cats as pets.

Oh, you are a prodigy. The intelligence from you just radiates outward like the plasma from the sun. lol
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 27, 2015, 05:50:24 AM
Quote
I mean, you are making less and less sense with each posting.

This coming from a guy that uses ClockGen to over-clock modern CPU's lol 8)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on April 27, 2015, 06:26:06 AM
Quote
Well a) there isn't a significant increase in risk - even the Wiki article says that b) If it's a housecat the risk is practically zero c) Most pet owners know about this through their vet because toxoplasmosis is a concern for pregnant women.

Lets be real, there is not ENOUGH research done about it to REALLY understand the problems. But the FACT of the matter is that you r body would be carrying the parasite and it will never leave your body once it enter the door.

Also, LETS BE REAL, how will you take away the pet cat from an owner? Some (most?) practically feel like they are like their kids?

Quote
You can clear an infection with a pyrimethamine, at least one antibiotic or some sulfa drugs.

You can also prevent an infection by keeping the wound clean. = no need to get to an infected wound.

Quote
No need.  Simply because scientists don't believe that medicine is magic.  In order for a compound to send a message to your brain the message has to be relatively simple.  Why?  Information theory.  It takes a complex messenger to send a complex message.  Feeling bad about yourself is a simple message, this is confirmed by the number of chemical risk factors there are in suicide.  Owning a pet is a complex social moire.  So it's exceptionally unlikely (or magical thinking) that there could be a compound that does this.

Here we go again not looking at different angles and ONLY being at a blind state that you know everything. Just looking at the simple fact that white-blood cells remove tattoo ink from the skin or when the human skin repairs itself when there is a cut, means that you HAVE NO CONTROL OVER IT. That means that you are alive because part of it has to do with your FREE WILL and another has to do with microorganisms protecting you. Maybe even a HIGHER POWER?

Now if toxoplasma is able to manipulate the brain of animals, what makes you believe that it is OK to get it inside your body in the first place?

What i'm trying to say is that you don't know jack, jack-in-the-box. Or at least, not enough to 100% something  :)

OH! I forgot. Yet again by saying a one sentence you counter the article 100%. lol You do this time and time again. Allow me to look in my crystal ball! Joel presents a link to a research done by at least 3 people, MEH! sarkchiken counters it with one sentence! Very simple! lol This is a pattern of yours that shows like an open wound. It gets old after a while since you can't evolve past your ignorance!

Quote
Sorry I don't talk about my job to random strangers.

I'm not a stranger anymore, I have been posting here for a while now. I will not tell anyone your fraudulent ways to anyone. You can trust me.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on April 27, 2015, 11:33:12 PM


OH! I forgot. Yet again by saying a one sentence you counter the article 100%. lol You do this time and time again. Allow me to look in my crystal ball! Joel presents a link to a research done by at least 3 people, MEH! sarkchiken counters it with one sentence! Very simple! lol This is a pattern of yours that shows like an open wound. It gets old after a while since you can't evolve past your ignorance!




Yup. ;)


Robert Kennedy, Jr. is right about vaccines: A medically induced 'holocaust' is now upon usLearn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/049494_Robert_Kennedy_vaccine_holocaust_immunization_damage.html#ixzz3YY11iYPo (http://www.naturalnews.com/049494_Robert_Kennedy_vaccine_holocaust_immunization_damage.html#ixzz3YY11iYPo)



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Progressive lawmakers in California violate women's rights with SB 277; children to be physically violated by government without parental consentLearn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/049497_SB_277_womens_rights_progressive_lawmakers.html#ixzz3YY1FfsMs (http://www.naturalnews.com/049497_SB_277_womens_rights_progressive_lawmakers.html#ixzz3YY1FfsMs)




SB 277 will unleash "medical civil war" in California as parents demand doctors be arrested for felony assaultLearn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/049511_SB_277_vaccine_violence_medical_assault.html#ixzz3YY1Ki6XP (http://www.naturalnews.com/049511_SB_277_vaccine_violence_medical_assault.html#ixzz3YY1Ki6XP)




Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 28, 2015, 02:13:31 AM
Joel:

What is the problem with clockgen?

It has been certified to work with windows 7.  It is really easy to use...so...don't be afraid to try to learn how.  They are working on a version for windows 10.  Stay tuned.

The only warning I ever heard about cats was that it was not a good idea for a pregnant woman to be around one...specifically, the litter box.  If your cat is trained to go outside like a dog, i have not heard of any problems with this.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 28, 2015, 05:46:29 AM
Whether or not ClockGen will do the job expected is
dependent upon one's experience and skill level.

Discussing ClockGen (http://www.overclock.net/t/1211322/overclocking-via-clockgen)

Question about ClockGen (http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1637425/clockgen.html)

ClockGen Review (http://www.filecluster.com/reviews/122013/clockgen-easily-overclock-your-hardware/)

Finding your PLL with ClockGen (http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/finding-your-pll-with-clockgen.231007/)

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 28, 2015, 05:53:33 AM
Whether or not ClockGen will do the job expected is
dependent upon one's experience and skill level.

Discussing ClockGen (http://www.overclock.net/t/1211322/overclocking-via-clockgen)

Question about ClockGen (http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1637425/clockgen.html)

ClockGen Review (http://www.filecluster.com/reviews/122013/clockgen-easily-overclock-your-hardware/)

Finding your PLL with ClockGen (http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/finding-your-pll-with-clockgen.231007/)

Exactly.  You do have to know what you are doing...as with most things.  The safest way to overclock is in the bios but, most chips have that locked.  This is a great alternative but...possibly a bit risky.  I have had no problems as of yet...but...proceed at your own risk.

I have no idea why Joel said this is like 5 years old or whatever.  This made my old 3.2 Ghz computer run at over 4 Ghz with no probs at all.  I tried 4.5 with it and it shut down.  But, that was an 8 year old computer when I replaced it with my new, high speed computer.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 29, 2015, 04:45:01 AM
The Love of Money once again rears its Ugly Head. (http://shareverything.com/2015/04/28/big-pharma-buys-up-critical-life-saving-drugs-then-raises-prices-dramatically/)

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on May 01, 2015, 01:41:16 AM
Big Pharma and the Medical Industry as a whole are
infected with Love of Money. (http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=114720)  They rely on ever increasing
numbers if sick people to keep the money rolling in.

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on May 01, 2015, 03:48:47 AM
"De vaccinerede piger" (with English Subs) for international viewing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO2i-r39hok (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO2i-r39hok)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on May 02, 2015, 07:10:54 AM
Seamonkey, thanks for the links. I never knew that ClockGen was a software made by cpuid dot com. The same people that make great products like CPUZ (standard cpu monitoring by most), HWMONITOR, and PERFMONITTOR. Just the simple fact that there is no ClockGen to be downloaded from them anymore 100% means that it has being retired a long time ago. No EDUCATED CPU over-clocker would use that today. Heck I believe that was more of something to experiment with most than anything else.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 02, 2015, 07:21:23 AM
Seamonkey, thanks for the links. I never knew that ClockGen was a software made by cpuid dot com. The same people that make great products like CPUZ (standard cpu monitoring by most), HWMONITOR, and PERFMONITTOR. Just the simple fact that there is no ClockGen to be downloaded from them anymore 100% means that it has being retired a long time ago. No EDUCATED CPU over-clocker would use that today. Heck I believe that was more of something to experiment with most than anything else.

Well, you can continue to think that but then, why are they developing a ClockGen compatible with windows 10 then?  Are they doing this because it is obsolete and no one will use it?

As I said, it is not for the uninformed or fainthearted.  But, guys are now running at over 8 Ghz and that is something even I would not try.  At least not with my new computer.  At those speeds you do need additional cooling and some real guts...and also money to replace your equipment if things go bad.

Bill

PS  Welcome back Joel, I was getting worried about you.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on May 02, 2015, 07:39:09 AM
Oh bill bill bill. I already figured you out. :) but lets play.

First, you mentioned that you have your CPU over-clocked to 4.6Ghz. Then I kindly asked for proof and it was all a matter of posting a CPUZ screen-shot with pride in your over-clocked CPU. But then you post a fake one and then you delete it. Then you ask me what I am talking about when I confront you about the lies!!! The screen-shot was copy/pasted from the internet from some guy that uploaded his CPUZ back in 2012.

Then I ask you many questions about what an over-clocker would know. You say that I asked simple questions. BUT never even bothered to answer one! = lies compounding lies. :)

Now you are still stubborn trying to JUSTIFY your lies that AN EXPIRED SOFTWARE that you use, MAKES YOU AN EXPERT IN OVER_CLOCKING? Lol OHHHH MAN!

Conclusion, using ClockGen makes bill an over-clocker! That is the most ignorant thing I have ever read! To the point that I'm starting to believe that bill is living in a fantasy world.

I mean that facts are that no SERIOUS over-clocker would ever use ClockGen gives it away plain and simple.

Now based on this SIMPLEX evidence for the serious over-clockers to read, how in the world does bill know THE LOGISTICS about vaccinations? A blind man talking about things he cannot understand? lol

Quote
It has been certified to work with windows 7.  It is really easy to use...so...don't be afraid to try to learn how.  They are working on a version for windows 10.  Stay tuned.

Poor simpleton. You only overclock in the BIOS. Those settings are GLOBAL...meaning that even if you where to install linux in your PC, the over-clocked CPU would be static. IF YOU USE SOFTWARE TO OVER_CLOCK, the over-clocking would not be persistent!

PLUS, that type of software is meant for people that don't know how to over-clock. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. NO IS NO WHATS NO NOTHING. 100% evidence you don't know how to over-clock the right way!!! PERIOD! DONE! PLEASE DON'T KEEP ON TRYING TO CONVINCE ME!

Quote
The only warning I ever heard about cats was that it was not a good idea for a pregnant woman to be around one...specifically, the litter box.  If your cat is trained to go outside like a dog, i have not heard of any problems with this.

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT CATS CARRY IT! PERIOD! No excuses!

Knowing that fact! I would expect a KNOWLEDGABLE scientists to make more studies upon the subject. Since those are facts. With you bill, hmmm keep your cat and you can maybe qualify for future testing when someone actually want to find how toxoplasma actually attack the humman brain and immunity. But I have a “FEELING” that it will never leave a body once it enters and there is not really that much of a study being done today about it.

Is there even a procedure where you make an appointment in the hospital to be tested for toxoplasma?

The point still is that based on your logic, there cannot be a conversation about logistics/understanding-truth with you.  No matter how things are explained to you, you are more likely to be biased regarding everything = closed minded.

By now it is plain obvious that you are not capable to see the truth. This I wonder why do you even agree with sarkchicken when simple stuff like this you cannot understand?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on May 02, 2015, 07:41:52 AM
Quote
Well, you can continue to think that but then, why are they developing a ClockGen compatible with windows 10 then?

Where's the source? ???
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 02, 2015, 08:18:05 AM
Oh bill bill bill. I already figured you out. :) but lets play.

First, you mentioned that you have your CPU over-clocked to 4.6Ghz. Then I kindly asked for proof and it was all a matter of posting a CPUZ screen-shot with pride in your over-clocked CPU. But then you post a fake one and then you delete it. Then you ask me what I am talking about when I confront you about the lies!!! The screen-shot was copy/pasted from the internet from some guy that uploaded his CPUZ back in 2012.

Then I ask you many questions about what an over-clocker would know. You say that I asked simple questions. BUT never even bothered to answer one! = lies compounding lies. :)

Now you are still stubborn trying to JUSTIFY your lies that AN EXPIRED SOFTWARE that you use, MAKES YOU AN EXPERT IN OVER_CLOCKING? Lol OHHHH MAN!

Conclusion, using ClockGen makes bill an over-clocker! That is the most ignorant thing I have ever read! To the point that I'm starting to believe that bill is living in a fantasy world.

I mean that facts are that no SERIOUS over-clocker would ever use ClockGen gives it away plain and simple.

Now based on this SIMPLEX evidence for the serious over-clockers to read, how in the world does bill know THE LOGISTICS about vaccinations? A blind man talking about things he cannot understand? lol

Poor simpleton. You only overclock in the BIOS. Those settings are GLOBAL...meaning that even if you where to install linux in your PC, the over-clocked CPU would be static. IF YOU USE SOFTWARE TO OVER_CLOCK, the over-clocking would not be persistent!

PLUS, that type of software is meant for people that don't know how to over-clock. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. NO IS NO WHATS NO NOTHING. 100% evidence you don't know how to over-clock the right way!!! PERIOD! DONE! PLEASE DON'T KEEP ON TRYING TO CONVINCE ME!

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT CATS CARRY IT! PERIOD! No excuses!

Knowing that fact! I would expect a KNOWLEDGABLE scientists to make more studies upon the subject. Since those are facts. With you bill, hmmm keep your cat and you can maybe qualify for future testing when someone actually want to find how toxoplasma actually attack the humman brain and immunity. But I have a “FEELING” that it will never leave a body once it enters and there is not really that much of a study being done today about it.

Is there even a procedure where you make an appointment in the hospital to be tested for toxoplasma?

The point still is that based on your logic, there cannot be a conversation about logistics/understanding-truth with you.  No matter how things are explained to you, you are more likely to be biased regarding everything = closed minded.

By now it is plain obvious that you are not capable to see the truth. This I wonder why do you even agree with sarkchicken when simple stuff like this you cannot understand?

It is not expired software but...never mind that..i said many times that OC'ing in the bios is the real way to do it to be safe.  But, a lot of chips are not unlocked so, this is not even possible.  If it were possible, I would tell folks to use the bios as you have said.  You are totally right about that.

I am not closed minded...quite the opposite.  How do you think I have learned all that I have in my life?  It sure was not by being closed minded.

I have never heard that all cats carry this disease.  How have I lived to my ripe old age having cats most of my life if this is so deadly?  I mean, I am 56, should this disease not have taken me out by now?  At one time, I had 4 cats living with me.  I am not saying you are wrong, I am just saying that since I am still here, I am not going to worry about it.

You actually do sound like you know something about computers so, on this, I congratulate you.  Now, if you just started using JB Weld, you would be getting somewhere, ha ha.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on May 02, 2015, 09:06:30 AM
Quote
It is not expired software but...never mind that..i said many times that OC'ing in the bios is the real way to do it to be safe.  But, a lot of chips are not unlocked so, this is not even possible.  If it were possible, I would tell folks to use the bios as you have said.  You are totally right about that.

Show me the link to download it and tell me why would a serious over-clocker need it?

Quote
I have never heard that all cats carry this disease.  How have I lived to my ripe old age having cats most of my life if this is so deadly?  I mean, I am 56, should this disease not have taken me out by now?  At one time, I had 4 cats living with me.  I am not saying you are wrong, I am just saying that since I am still here, I am not going to worry about it.

BILL, I'm sure you have never heard of a lot of things. You are just STUCK in that Jbweld is the “cure” for all repairs!!! lol

I cannot expect you to understand further in depth concepts. BUT you have to understand that there are more permanent cures than just Jbwelding things.

If you claim to be open minded, why are you so stuck in jbweld fixing something? IN FACT! I 100% guarantee that if we where to stress test that fix, it would fail and not pass inspection!

YOU NEED TO PASS JBWELD FIXING TO BE OPEN MINDED! Other than that, your mind remains closed and not really that hard to understand.

HECK! I'm half your age and understand this concept. HECK! ALL scientists understand this concept. Sometimes it takes someone to get them out of their ignorant comfort zone Jurassic park mentality. Based on your are, I would expect for you to be teaching me and learning many things from experience. But, I have not learned anything from you but just to jbweld stuff. :|

I don't expect for you to know about anything else bill. You are stuck in a bubble. Your mind cannot understand other bubbles. And in your bubble is what everything is and outside of it nothing can be. :)

It is 100% obvious by now that I know more about computers than you...BUT GUESS WHAT? Someone else know more about from what I know and I seek that knowledge instead of saying that I live in a bubble! My mind is open minded past the point of just jbwelding things. YOU BELIEVE THAT JBWLED IS THE ONE AND ONLY FIX! = closed minded!

Your responsibility is to teach me as i'm way younger than you, what do you have to teach me bill? ;)

PS, the virus does not want to kill the host...it just uses it to reproduce (ill person). The virus is too small and the host is too large to eat it like lions eat a zebra.

"Recent research has also linked toxoplasmosis with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder, and schizophrenia.[11] Numerous studies found a positive correlation between latent toxoplasmosis and suicidal behavior in humans.[12][13][14] Research related to the effects of toxoplasmosis on personality and mental health was awarded the 2014 Ig Nobel Prize in Public Health."
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on May 02, 2015, 10:37:11 AM
Magloving, Tink, SeaMonkey

Great effort and truth! The links provided are nothing to not take serious! It is just that there is so little time with so little life to understand by those that seek truth!

I wanted to speak about the links provided (which is A LOT to be digested) but I rather chose to speak the following:

We all live in our little bubbles! We have a hard time trying to understand our bubbled life so we cannot understand the life outside our bubble!

A pilot lives in his bubble.

A mechanic lives in his bubble.

A rich person lives in his bubble.

A doctor lives in his bubble.

A vaccinator lives in his bubble.

An anti-vaccine lives in his bubble.

What I find it very common and truthful, is that most people live in their own bubble! And the root of the problem is GREED!

It is then the conclusion that GREED will only allow “truth” of greed to come out. Then by that knowledge I should take advantage of my neighbor. I should sell medicine to get my pockets full. I should get away with murder if my family member has a one million life insurance.

By looking at every angle, a human being can. The fact of the matter is that GREED corrupts the mind like a parasite. The mentality of ALL is that having money will make your life better! We have already lost the meaning of life once one believes that lie! Which brings me back to one living in a bubble!

Do you buy love?

Do you buy life?

Do you need money to reproduce sperm?

How much money did it take to make the world?

I ask myself, why do doctors want to vaccinate humans before they get sick? And when some get sick, why not admit it and MOVE ON! Why? Because GREED makes stupid people!

How in the world can a GREEDY person make money if the person UNDERSTAND how their greed works and not get milked FROM THEIR GREEDY MENTALITY?

I find it that 99% of the people that are pro-vaccines are 100% corrupt. They have no choice to say otherwise with their fat bodies!? IN FACT, I find it that they need something to blame besides the medicines they take since 100% all medicines will cure them and 100% the non-medicinal person giving advise is 100% WRONG!

THE SIMPLEX FACT THAT THERE IS NO CURE FOR THE FLU VIRUS AND THAT THE FLU SHOT IS MADE FROM A VIRUS GIVES THE ANSWER TO THE HUMAN IMMUNITY ONLY!

The little bubble of those vaccinators need their bubble popped! IN FACT! I find it that a CPU engineer is more knowledgeable regarding how viruses work than a vaccinator. I CUP engineer knows wayyyy more than a reverse engineer vaccinator. SO VACCINATOR CANNOT KNOW THE UNIVERSAL FACTS!

I believe it is time to bring down those people down from their high horse and pay the price either with money or jail time! Time for people to get them out of their bubble and bring out the truth!!!

Why is it so hard to understand all bubbles besides your own? We have the brain capability! Our brain thinks a millions/billion times a second! We DON'T EXIST IN OUR BUBBLE! Our bubble is made of many bubbles!  ;D
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: tagor on May 03, 2015, 07:12:00 AM
Doctor Sarko you have to look at this

http://rabble.ca/podcasts/shows/boilingfrog/critical-dialogue-ghislaine-lanctot (http://rabble.ca/podcasts/shows/boilingfrog/critical-dialogue-ghislaine-lanctot)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHMpXkOfims (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHMpXkOfims)


http://archive.org/stream/TheMedicalMafia/TheMedicalMafia_djvu.txt (http://archive.org/stream/TheMedicalMafia/TheMedicalMafia_djvu.txt)


http://www.jemesouviensdequijesuis.com/english/Ghis.htm (http://www.jemesouviensdequijesuis.com/english/Ghis.htm)


Quote
Conclusion
We are presently experimenting the end of a world, that of illusion. One after another, its shameful lies and deceitful tricks are exposed. Its Stock Exchange and currencies collapse; its banks and insurance companies go bankrupt; its clients lose all their possessions, its governments establish martial law; its armies get ready to send protesters inside concentration camps and refugees inside mega-prisons. Suddenly, we become conscious that we have been lied to, or rather, that we have been lying to ourselves. All that we believed in is false. Our illusions are going up in smoke. At long last, we discover that Santa Claus does not exist !
 Calling death as a last escape route grows steadily more tempting – suicide, illness, accident. Others choose to freeze their senses with legal and illegal drugs, , alcohol, etc. I invite you to close the door to all the means of evasion and to live intensely the greatest adventure of consciousness of all time. Know that the crisis that we are presently experimenting is not financial, social, political, religious, or moral.
In reality, it is an evolutionary crisis !
 Human beings are crossing the bridge between unconscious animality and conscious, individual sovereignty. A most fundamental mutation is presently happening, as big as the caterpillar changing into a butterfly or a foetus who becomes a baby. In both cases, only the death of the first stage allows the birth of the second stage. We are presently going through the pains of childbirth. They can be excruciating if we resist the change. When the experience becomes difficult, we need to
 remember the crucial point. The only reason for my existence on earth is the fulfillment of the sovereign being that I truly am. That is why I should consider every loss that I experience as a gift
 to help me accomplish the purpose of my present incarnation – the transformation of consciousness.
  The curtain falls – my adventure in jail is over. It is the outcome of a long search for my real identity. The legal proceedings were the excuse; the result will naturally follow. As always, the only winner remains the evolution of human consciousness.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Dog-One on May 06, 2015, 07:43:26 AM
A little more fuel for the fire:
http://www.naturalblaze.com/2015/05/whooping-cough-invades-vaccinated.html

Personally, it doesn't matter to me which side of the fence you stand on, but if you're the type that refuses to mind their own business and do things that disrupt my business, then we have a problem.  I will ask the nurse nicely not to stick needles in my newborn baby; if she refuses, the gloves come off.  It's really that simple.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on May 07, 2015, 04:20:13 AM
Key CDC scientist who downplayed vaccine-autism connection is now fleeing from justiceLearn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/049615_Poul_Thorsen_vaccine_fraud_fugitive_from_justice.html#ixzz3ZPngbLrd (http://www.naturalnews.com/049615_Poul_Thorsen_vaccine_fraud_fugitive_from_justice.html#ixzz3ZPngbLrd)






This one not on vacs, but very important and a good read never the less.

Monsanto gets sued for falsely advertising glyphosate as non-toxic to humans
Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/049609_Monsanto_false_advertising_glyphosate.html#ixzz3ZPo0rLgC (http://www.naturalnews.com/049609_Monsanto_false_advertising_glyphosate.html#ixzz3ZPo0rLgC)
[/color]

Mags

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on May 07, 2015, 07:16:48 AM
HPV Vaccine Can Make You Susceptible to More Serious Strains of HPV.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/05/05/hpv-vaccine-gardasil.aspx
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on May 09, 2015, 09:19:34 AM
http://www.naturalblaze.com/2015/05/whooping-cough-invades-vaccinated.html

Dog-One, That link hits on a lot of the real DEEP issues. If I have some time to break it all down and give my truth opinion I will, but by skimming through it, I would say Bill Gates does not care for money as much as he use to when his parents use to have him on an allowance.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 09, 2015, 09:29:27 AM
http://www.naturalblaze.com/2015/05/whooping-cough-invades-vaccinated.html (http://www.naturalblaze.com/2015/05/whooping-cough-invades-vaccinated.html)

Dog-One, That link hits on a lot of the real DEEP issues. If I have some time to break it all down and give my truth opinion I will, but by skimming through it, I would say Bill Gates does not care for money as much as he use to when his parents use to have him on an allowance.

Welcome back Joel.  I am sure that Sark missed you.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on May 09, 2015, 09:51:51 AM
Hey bill, I do a lot of projects on the side. I like to learn new things and understand them 100% not just half ass. I have been doing this since I was 5 years old. I always focus on the END of the cause. I think I mentioned that I have been fixing stuff since 5 years old. And ever since I only focus on the end conclusion...the root and the middle part does not matter much….just the end of the goal.

At any rate, I personally do not find sarko that “intelligent” and I believe he threw in the towel.

In these few days I have learned a lot if you are curious (outside of vaccinations). Also, I can guarantee that I have done some stuff that you can't. Is not that you can't do em, is just that I am broken free from the mental corruption.

What the real issue here bill, is that vaccines are not 100% facts. Everything can be made in to an equation, and it would not add up at the root of it. The only addition that can be done by any sane person is that they are just trying to make money off vaccines. Which is a shame! And disregard! For human life/souls.

Ok, bill, let me ask you this. Why do you agree soo much with sarkchiken?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on May 10, 2015, 12:47:32 AM
The Dangers of Aluminum and the Neurotoxicity of Vaccines.

http://21stcenturywire.com/2015/05/07/the-dangers-of-aluminum-and-the-neurotoxicity-of-vaccines/
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on May 10, 2015, 05:09:22 AM
Why Propaganda works with certain people. (http://www.zengardner.com/propaganda-art-overwhelming-logic/)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on May 12, 2015, 03:14:49 AM
What happened to Sark?  Maybe he got fired.  :o



Depopulation test run? 75% of children who received vaccines in Mexican town now dead or hospitalized
 http://www.naturalnews.com/049669_vaccine_injury_depopulation_agenda_deadly_side_effects.html#ixzz3Zsm6dwzB (http://www.naturalnews.com/049669_vaccine_injury_depopulation_agenda_deadly_side_effects.html#ixzz3Zsm6dwzB)




Doctors cover up vaccine damage after killing infant with 8 simultaneous vaccinations
 http://www.naturalnews.com/049668_vaccine_damage_SIDS_medical_abuse.html#ixzz3ZsmITQeU (http://www.naturalnews.com/049668_vaccine_damage_SIDS_medical_abuse.html#ixzz3ZsmITQeU)





ACLU joins fight against a California mandatory vaccination bill pushed by bought-off politicians
 http://www.naturalnews.com/049667_mandatory_vaccines_ACLU_Big_Pharma.html#ixzz3ZsmQoz6p (http://www.naturalnews.com/049667_mandatory_vaccines_ACLU_Big_Pharma.html#ixzz3ZsmQoz6p)



Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on May 16, 2015, 05:41:26 AM
Rima E. Laibow: "Vaccines Are A Complete Fraud. Don't Poison Your Child!" on the Richie Allen Radio Show. (40min. 29sec.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1JdYCCqMKg
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 16, 2015, 06:07:02 AM


Ok, bill, let me ask you this. Why do you agree soo much with sarkchiken?



Well, that is easy.  It is because he is intelligent, educated and correct.  Also, he does not appear to have any animosity toward JB Weld.

What is not to agree with?

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on May 16, 2015, 08:16:27 AM
By now it is plain as daylight that vaccinations are corrupt as anything else governed. The GREED is what makes the world go round in a crazy mental way.

If one stops and thinks about it with logic and 100% reasoning, one starts to see the GREED! All over the place = money makes the world go round. It is an epidemic that takes lives and will continue to do if people don't stand up for their rights with a CLEAR LOGICAL EDUCATED MIND!

This is very simple to understand as simple to Jbweld anything. I'm even perplexed why pirate is only focusing on jbwelding? Well, let me look in to my crystal ball, he is only thinking about himself and his accomplishments. BUT there is a difference between wanting to be praised for something than being praised for helping humanity.

As hard as I try to look at the politics of vaccinations, I just can't in my SANE mind view them as trying to help humanity! For one, they are not FREE. For the most important one, they never cure the issue!!!
 
This video explains EXACTLY how the monopoly of how vaccinations work. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/health-science-technology/trouble-with-chicken/lawmakers-push-two-food-safety-bills-after-frontline-investigation/

Don't be blind and watch the whole video. Then at the end of the video ask yourself why is that still happening in the year 2015?

Plus who was charged for any criminal acts upon the consumers?

Do you think it is any different for vaccines?

All the pieces of the puzzle come together when you open your mind and look at all angles of the situations. That is very simple. The solution is not that hard to figure out either...it is those traumatized people that don’t understand their future sickness or the continuum of cash flow GREED in exchange for human lives.

Now bill, you are mature and intelligent right? You are pro vaccinations. Now tell me what is wrong with the regulations of handling the poultry salmonella?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 16, 2015, 08:29:44 AM
I am only pro vaccinations for those that want to spend the money and the research to develop them, and those that choose to take them.
If you think they are good for your kids and yourself...go for it.  If not...don't.

Just be educated about your decisions.  That was what Sark was telling us.  You may read...xyz...but when you look into it...it is really abc.

1 person died from a vaccine reaction so I am not going to get a shot.  Then, 100,00 people die from that disease.  Look at the numbers and make real, educated decisions.  Read real medical websites...not pharma websites (pro) and not nutjob websites. (against)

We are responsible for ourselves right Joel?  I believe we agree on this.  So, you do what you want, and let others do what they want.

This all should be pretty easy.  I have told you that I have not had any shots in probably...over 28 years.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on May 16, 2015, 09:30:20 AM
Oh bill, are you reading this thread for the first time? From what I can remember, and I can search back, vaccinations are trying to MANDATORY “vaccinate” people. TRUST ME! I REMEMBER! In some areas it came to the point of jail time if not wanting to be vaccinated!!! In other areas it comes to the point that non-vaccinate people are to blame for the virus!!!! Bunch of STUPID CORRUPT minds out there. While the “creators” of the vaccines enjoy their pockets full of money and watch how the public play the blame game! lol


I also remember how the laws are changing. From the “fire-safe-cigarets” to the cameras at every stop light. Heck even FREE checking accounts. All of that boils down that they are milking you from your money...and it goes even deeper. How in the world do you see vaccinations not as a cash cow? IOW, who pays the vaccination creators weekly check? The purpose is to help humans or to make money?

Quote
We are responsible for ourselves right Joel?

In all honesty, all of what you say is all scattered and confusing. You forget who taught you to read? Who taught you to walk? is the new born baby born in a jungle alone!

By now it is plain as day light, everything that I ask you, you never will answer 100%. Which equals that you are not capable to see past your nose and you are just enjoying your dying years and seek attention.

You are just a waste of brain matter my friend! 

DID YOU EVEN WATCH THAT VIDEO in it's entirely?

Did you noticed how in the END, it is up to the people to kill the virus by cooking it right? Therefore, the virus is allowed to get pass through due to the monopoly. Hmmm...vaccinations are not the same monopoly? I'm certain you don't know lol. :P
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on May 16, 2015, 03:17:26 PM
The CDC has been shunning the correlations between thimerosal and neurological disorders for a very long time.

http://12160.info/forum/topics/cdc-forced-to-release-documents-showing-they-knew-vaccine
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on May 20, 2015, 03:42:34 PM
Dr. Andrew Wakefield Conference: Ignite the Truth

http://www.activistpost.com/2015/05/dr-andrew-wakefield-conference-ignite.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf3yXk4oJPs (56min. 20sec.)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on May 22, 2015, 05:52:24 AM
Fantasy: "vaccines remarkably safe and effective".

https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2015/05/19/fantasy-vaccines-remarkably-safe-and-effective/
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on May 23, 2015, 09:21:50 AM
I hostly believe that every parent will fight to the death for their son/daughter.

I honestly believe that every brother will fight to the death for their sister/s.

I honestly believe that ever sister will fight to the death for their bother/s.

What this simplistic “evolution” scenario means is that ALL humans have a LIMITED empathy towards the person next to them. That empathy 100% goes to their RELATIVES. And this is 100% correct.

Now I ASK MYSELF, ARE THE VACCINATORS MAKING VACCINES IN A WAY THAT WOULD HELP THEIR OWN FAMILY?

“Hey dad, I'm glad you gave me life but here take this viruses (vaccine) for your own good”..oohhh dad, you died...well you can't prove it it was from the vaccinations dad.

The same can be said with kids living healthy lives and looking forward to prosperous future lives….”take this MANDATORY vaccine”...parent: What the fuck happened to my kid? Sir, if you keep on complaining we may have to take you to jail or mandatory psychiatric therapy.

The corruption needs to come to light!!!

Stop looking at your neighbor as an enemy or cash money. Look at your neighbor as a brother or sister! There is only winning when we understand that we are all brothers and sisters. There is NOTHING TO BLAME ABOUT ANYTHING BECAUSE THE MISTAKES ARE PURPOSELY DONE TO LEARN!

VACCINATTORS are actually using peoples lives as diapers! They don't care about FAMILY, they only care about GREED! POWER! MANIPULATION!

All of those blinded pro-vaccine people….how have you been cured by any vaccine? 

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on May 29, 2015, 10:50:22 PM
Unfortunate serious reaction experience to vaccination (http://www.zengardner.com/vaccine-free-mom-vaccination-caused-asthma-anaphylactic-shock-shingles-eye/).

Knowledge of the hazards is crucial.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on June 03, 2015, 11:38:04 PM
Vaccines have become Weapons of Mass Destruction. (http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=116643)

Quote from: Excerpt from Vaccine article
I met the story about the swine flu with great skepticism; it played like a story line in a B movie – Students go abroad for spring break. Students get the virus. Students bring it home. Worldwide pandemic starts. The story line was unbelievable, and I knew from day one that there was either no virus at all, and that it was just a “wag the dog”, or that a manufactured outbreak was intentionally released and underway. Unfortunately the latter was true, and now we have an entirely new bug on our hands. It has never been seen before, and virologists have been quoted saying “where the hell it got all these genes from we don’t know.” Extensive analysis of the virus has revealed genes from the original 1918 flu, the avian flu, and two new H3N2 viruses from Eurasia. All evidence points to the fact that the swine flu is indeed a genetically engineered virus.(continues at link)



Corruption is Destroying Basic Science. (http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=116619)

Quote from: Excerpt from Corruption article
Lancet and the New England Journal of Medicine are the two most prestigious medical journals in the world.
It is therefore striking that their chief editors have both publicly written that corruption is undermining science.
The editor in chief of Lancet, Richard Horton, wrote last month: (continues at link)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on June 11, 2015, 07:12:30 AM
Big Pharma needs Sick People:
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on June 11, 2015, 07:45:51 AM
Read an article a few days ago that was about a quote from Mr bill Gates. The quote was like, "there will be a pandemic that will kill an estimated 10 million 'excess' people."   And the article was focused on that 1 word, 'excess'.  Now what do you think he meant by that?  See, when you have your heart set on controlling things like population, it is easy to slip up here n there.  Or maybe he is just bold and proud of what he is accomplishing and doesnt care if the world knows. ??? ::) ;)


Speaking of ole Billybob, consider Microsoft, along with smart phones, hard drives, etc., they are all, from hardware to software, designed to be vulnerable. It just really hit me in the last couple years as to why couldnt these things be made impervious to hacking, malware, snooping, etc.  Its because it is all designed that way.

There has been a seeming revolt from the tech sector toward the 'gov' for demanding that they put back doors on all devices. These companies are saying that they want to have stronger encryption with no backdoors. Even no way for the companies themselves to retrieve and decode their own encryption, warrant or not.

But, I have my reservations on all that jibber jabber and believe its 'possible' they are just saying all that, putting on a show, to regain trust from the consumers and try and hide the fact that they will still be doing what they have been doing. ;)   Just like all the latest commercials, propaganda on getting vaccines.  Well, I read an article that says people just aint buyin it. ;D ;D ;D

Unfortunately, as the people become more in the know and more people reject what they are offering, 'they' will start forcing it all anyway, if it cant be done peacefully. ;) ;) ;) And its gunna get ugly. ;)

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on July 04, 2015, 08:20:20 AM
Hey guys the medical field “troubles” are just too much FACTS of trouble that I decided to just get away from such things. BUT it is true no matter at what angle you look at it! Me reading this brought me back to this sub-forum…

http://journal-neo.org/2015/06/18/shocking-report-from-medical-insiders/

...which means it needs a SOLUTION! = Medicine is not the 100% solution! All I can say is keep on “fighting”. ALL people have a brain to understand! One just needs to speak to them at a frequency that triggers inner peace and understanding of the logic of the future of life! NO SCHOOL TEACHES YOU THAT SO YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN ON THAT! Which is not that hard to figure out! BUT I CAN bet $1000 USD that there is GREEED corruption going on there.

Which is a corruption of medicine for profit...and the underlying of "killing softly" by the medical field...after all, they don't "heal" humans for free?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 04, 2015, 05:00:33 PM
Hey guys the medical field “troubles” are just too much FACTS of trouble that I decided to just get away from such things. BUT it is true no matter at what angle you look at it! Me reading this brought me back to this sub-forum…

http://journal-neo.org/2015/06/18/shocking-report-from-medical-insiders/ (http://journal-neo.org/2015/06/18/shocking-report-from-medical-insiders/)

...which means it needs a SOLUTION! = Medicine is not the 100% solution! All I can say is keep on “fighting”. ALL people have a brain to understand! One just needs to speak to them at a frequency that triggers inner peace and understanding of the logic of the future of life! NO SCHOOL TEACHES YOU THAT SO YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN ON THAT! Which is not that hard to figure out! BUT I CAN bet $1000 USD that there is GREEED corruption going on there.

Which is a corruption of medicine for profit...and the underlying of "killing softly" by the medical field...after all, they don't "heal" humans for free?

Don't be too mad at profits, without them, we would have no medicines at all nor any other medical advances or advances in other fields.

Money makes the the wheels go around.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on July 07, 2015, 08:46:01 AM
Dr. Christopher Exley- The Systemic Toxicity of Aluminium Adjuvants.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKfbkeQyw84
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on July 08, 2015, 07:56:25 PM
Excellent suggestion Tink!

More videos on Vaccine safety. (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCW_3ykt68GF9dmOyus-OeXw)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on July 18, 2015, 05:00:57 PM
There is a connection between vaccinations and
the "Shaken Baby Syndrome." (http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=118730)

Quote from: Article
Parents and care-givers worldwide are being falsely accused of harming and killing children due to a charge of “Shaken Baby Syndrome” (SBS), and often this is occurring shortly after receiving vaccinations. It has been admitted by medical professionals that adverse reactions to vaccines can occur in some children and these are listed in the package inserts produced by the vaccine manufacturers.

Read the entire article at link above.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on July 20, 2015, 09:26:47 PM
Doctor wins case over vaccines. (http://www.zengardner.com/doctor-beats-british-medical-council-vaccines/)

Quote from: Article
Dr. Jayne Donegan, a UK GP, has lived a most fascinating story. It began with her originally being a very strong advocate for vaccinations, but fast forward quite a few years later, and she now not only speaks out against the dangers of vaccinations, but ended up being taken to the General Medical Council with some pretty serious claims by them regarding her professionalism.

After a few stressful years in court against them, Dr. Donegan won her case. But chances are, this is the first you’re hearing of it.
Read the entire article at link above.


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on July 21, 2015, 10:17:45 AM
I don't know what humor's role is for the evolution of life? But I think we are living in a circus. In the USA everything is a PUN. It's kind of related to poetry but is not and has a tinge of sarcasm with bits of racism, greed, “I-know-more-than-you” attitude, and death! BUT a PUN cannot explain much details of the reality of the situation. I kind of see a PUN lazy and informative, kind of like a juvenile laughing at someone when they fall down on t heir face! Now remember, life in the USA is a PUN. And lets not forget that the obese people have a "logical" opinion on what's best for their future!

Cops kill innocent people and get away with it because the motto is that a “public servant” ONLY protects the people. How to not tarnish the corruption of power? It is a fact that NOTHING can be 100% so this means that cops will kill innocent bystanders here and there, it's inevitable and will continue to happen in the future. We also know that guns give “confidence” to anyone! To the point that they feel like they are somehow better that someone who does not own a gun...this is very sadistic as to believe, “yeah I may be wrong but I could kill you easy, don't tempt me!”.

Your article just made me think all of these things that have answers. I mean we can understand that the pharmacy, banks, mom-and-pop shop are only there to make money right? In a greedy world everyone is trying to make money to “survive”. In a healthy life, everyone just wants to reach 100 years old!

But lets look deep realll deep in to the meaning of life?

How can a USA citizen only being entertained by PUNs more knowledgeable than a person that has never read a TL;DR? (which this is part of what TV commercials do = ADD addicts).

How can't mathematicians not see the equation of the earth via pollution? Obviously they can see “water/liquid” drain from a glass container right?  http://imgur.com/gallery/WASeI

There are many UNIVERSAL frequencies in this world that can be understand by our six senses or by math (sense of eye sight) but they predict a dynamic outcome!

I'm sorry but there is corruption in medicine! :(

I'm sorry but there is corruption in money! :(

I'm sorry but there is corruption in the food! :(

Why can't we teach each other for FREEE the knowledge of life? AND allow the “evolution” of life to determine the outcome instead of money motivated outcome? I'm sure getting a hug is worth more than getting paid with paper money? If one can imagine such things as this https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Artist%27s_impression_of_the_evolution_of_a_hot_high-mass_binary_star.ogv why are they not able to see the money corruption?

In conclusion, everything has an answer!  It is inevitable to hide corruption! We are nomad human beings exploring this earth to live and prosper NOT to kill each other and burn their house down!

IMO.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on August 23, 2015, 08:00:48 PM

Depopulation test run?  Seventy five percent of children
who received vaccines in Mexican town are now dead or
hospitalized. (http://www.healthfreedoms.org/depopulation-test-run-75-of-children-who-received-vaccines-in-mexican-town-now-dead-or-hospitalized/)



Quote from: Opening paragraph of article
Despite the insidious attempts of the corporate-controlled U.S. media to censor the stories about the deadly side effects of vaccines, the truth keeps surfacing. The latest vaccine tragedy to strike has killed two babies in La Pimienta, Mexico and sent 37 more to the hospital with serious reactions to toxic vaccine additives.

"…14 children are in serious condition, 22 are stable and one is in critical condition,” the Chiapas Health Secretariat said in a statement via Latino.

What’s especially alarming is that only 52 children were vaccinated in all, meaning that 75% of those receiving the vaccines are now either dead or hospitalized.

The vaccines were administered by the Mexican Social Security Institute, known as IMSS. The IMSS confirmed the deadly reactions occurred after children received injections of vaccines for tuberculosis, rotavirus and hepatitis B — the same viral strains targeted by vaccines routinely administered to children in the United States.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SoManyWires on August 23, 2015, 09:20:47 PM
Depopulation test run?  Seventy five percent of children
who received vaccines in Mexican town are now dead or
hospitalized. (http://www.healthfreedoms.org/depopulation-test-run-75-of-children-who-received-vaccines-in-mexican-town-now-dead-or-hospitalized/)

wow, that is horrible.

something wrong with the shipment they received maybe, was allowed to get past testing.

california is dealing with vaccination concerns now too, and other locations trying to follow suit.

wonder if the vaccine makers and distributors can all account for themselves having been or not been vaccinated.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: gravityblock on August 23, 2015, 09:47:23 PM
Don't be too mad at profits, without them, we would have no medicines at all nor any other medical advances or advances in other fields.

Money makes the the wheels go around.

Bill

It is you, and the likes of people like you, who is one of the greatest problems in why this world is in the condition it's in.  Vaccines never cured Polio.  Polio manifested itself into different forms of other debilitating diseases, such as MS, etc.  Modern genetics has confirmed the genetic similarity between polio viruses, Coxsackie, and another group called the Echo viruses. Before the advent of the Salk and Sabin vaccines, there were only three polio viruses. Now, with the drastic alteration of the human gut over the years as a result of these vaccines, there are now at least 72 viral strains that can cause polio-like diseases.  <----- How can you call this a medical advance?  This is nothing more than a science of murder and debilitation, and in the process they make a profit off the people in which they dumbed-down.  The profits along with the additional diseases created through their science allows them to further perpetuate their crimes against humanity.  And, it's being done all in the name of money and human sacrifices to their false gods.

Reference:  The Hidden Polio Epidemic (http://www.whale.to/w/douglas.html)

Gravock
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: fritznien on August 24, 2015, 08:20:29 AM
wow, that is horrible.

something wrong with the shipment they received maybe, was allowed to get past testing.

california is dealing with vaccination concerns now too, and other locations trying to follow suit.

wonder if the vaccine makers and distributors can all account for themselves having been or not been vaccinated.

 try a site without all the CT.
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/05/14/no-vaccine-reactions-didnt-kill-several-children-in-mexico/
fritznien
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: gravityblock on August 24, 2015, 01:07:24 PM
try a site without all the CT.
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/05/14/no-vaccine-reactions-didnt-kill-several-children-in-mexico/ (http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/05/14/no-vaccine-reactions-didnt-kill-several-children-in-mexico/)
fritznien

It appears that site may have a financial interest in this story and is one-sided.  This site is connected to and have clients in the healthcare industry, government agencies, and possibly it's own lab.  Let's see how far this rabbit hole goes.  For now, I'm going to bed and will dig deeper into this later and will be posting references to support a financial interest.

Gravock
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: fritznien on August 24, 2015, 07:05:05 PM
GB i do look forward to seeing you come up with hard proof.
 the guy is a USA university researcher, yes he has a lab.
so any connection to a small clinic in Mexico with a spoiled
or contaminated batch of vaccine will be good.
fritznien
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: gravityblock on August 24, 2015, 10:32:09 PM
GB i do look forward to seeing you come up with hard proof.
 the guy is a USA university researcher, yes he has a lab.
so any connection to a small clinic in Mexico with a spoiled
or contaminated batch of vaccine will be good.
fritznien

IMO, any financial connections to vaccines or the pharmaceutical industry is good enough.  Also, any clients he may have who has a financial interest in vaccines or the pharma industry should be sufficient to show he's biased.  I'll be posting references as I find them.  One reference will lead to another reference and so on.

David Gorski’s Financial Pharma Ties: What He Didn’t Tell You (http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/06/david-gorskis-financial-pharma-ties-what-he-didnt-tell-you.html)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: gravityblock on August 25, 2015, 02:07:13 AM
IMO, any financial connections to vaccines or the pharmaceutical industry is good enough.  Also, any clients he may have who has a financial interest in vaccines or the pharma industry should be sufficient to show he's biased.  I'll be posting references as I find them.  One reference will lead to another reference and so on.

David Gorski’s Financial Pharma Ties: What He Didn’t Tell You (http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/06/david-gorskis-financial-pharma-ties-what-he-didnt-tell-you.html)

Below is a small excerpt from the above article:

"Well, it so happens Sanofi-Aventis – the world’s largest vaccine maker - is involved in several partnerships under which the company may be required to pay a total of $39 million from 2008 to 2013.  Gorski’s employer, Wayne State University, is one of the partners, and he is conducting a clinical trial of one of the company’s drugs."

Below is a small excerpt from this article on Shantha (http://www.sanofipasteur.com/en/articles/shantha-will-provide-up-to-37-million-doses-of-shan5.aspx):

"Shantha, was acquired by Sanofi Pasteur Holding in 2009, is a biotechnology pioneer from the emerging countries.  Shantha’s products complement Sanofi Pasteur’s portfolio. Besides Shan5™, three of its vaccines are WHO-prequalified: Shanchol™ cholera vaccine, Shanvac-B ® hepatitis B vaccine and ShanTT™ tetanus vaccine. Sanofi Pasteur and Shantha are also developing a new vaccine against rotavirus and a pediatric combination vaccine based on Shan5™, which will incorporate Sanofi Pasteur’s Inactivated Polio Vaccine (IPV) in order to secure polio eradication".

Shantha’s Investigational Rotavirus Vaccine Entered Phase III Clinical Trials in India on October 14, 2014 (http://www.sanofipasteur.com/en/articles/shantha-s-investigational-rotavirus-vaccine-enters-phase-III-clinical-trials-in-india.aspx).

Here's a quote as found in the above article, “We aim to provide an affordable vaccine to meet the still significant medical need in emerging markets, like India, and through partnerships with organizations like Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance”, commented Olivier Charmeil, Sanofi Pasteur’s President & CEO. “Sanofi Pasteur wants to be in the position to target a major role in the growing rotavirus market in developing countries, with a key focus on the Gavi market, in public markets for non-Gavi countries, as well as private segments in emerging markets.”"

Immediately following this quote, the article says, "The World Health Organization (WHO) recommends that vaccination with rotavirus vaccines should be included in all national immunization programs.  Gavi, has established an accelerated vaccine introduction initiative with the objective of driving the sustainable introduction of rotavirus vaccine in 30 Gavi-eligible countries by 2015.  In addition, PATH, an international, non-profit organization to improve public health, is working to accelerate access to rotavirus vaccines and sustain their implementation and use in countries where children need them most urgently."

IMO, this is hard proof that Gorski (Orca) and Gorski's employer, Wayne State University has a financial interest in the vaccine and pharma industries, and it connects them to the vaccinations given in the small town of Mexico.

I have more evidence which brings the entire site of scienceblogs.com into question, if this doesn't convince you.  Scienceblogs.com has a connection to GE Healthcare, the United Nations, and other governmental agencies.  I can even connect that site to Shantha.

Gravock

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on August 25, 2015, 02:14:30 AM
Below is a small excerpt from the above article:

"Well, it so happens Sanofi-Aventis – the world’s largest vaccine maker - is involved in several partnerships under which the company may be required to pay a total of $39 million from 2008 to 2013.  Gorski’s employer, Wayne State University, is one of the partners, and he is conducting a clinical trial of one of the company’s drugs."

Below is a small excerpt from this article on Shantha:

"Shantha, was acquired by Sanofi Pasteur Holding in 2009, is a biotechnology pioneer from the emerging countries.  Shantha’s products complement Sanofi Pasteur’s portfolio. Besides Shan5™, three of its vaccines are WHO-prequalified: Shanchol™ cholera vaccine, Shanvac-B ® hepatitis B vaccine and ShanTT™ tetanus vaccine. Sanofi Pasteur and Shantha are also developing a new vaccine against rotavirus and a pediatric combination vaccine based on Shan5™, which will incorporate Sanofi Pasteur’s Inactivated Polio Vaccine (IPV) in order to secure polio eradication".

Shantha’s Investigational Rotavirus Vaccine Entered Phase III Clinical Trials in India on October 14, 2014 (http://www.sanofipasteur.com/en/articles/shantha-s-investigational-rotavirus-vaccine-enters-phase-III-clinical-trials-in-india.aspx).

Here's a quote as found in the above article, “We aim to provide an affordable vaccine to meet the still significant medical need in emerging markets, like India, and through partnerships with organizations like Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance”, commented Olivier Charmeil, Sanofi Pasteur’s President & CEO. “Sanofi Pasteur wants to be in the position to target a major role in the growing rotavirus market in developing countries, with a key focus on the Gavi market, in public markets for non-Gavi countries, as well as private segments in emerging markets.”

Immediately following this quote, the article says, "The World Health Organization (WHO) recommends that vaccination with rotavirus vaccines should be included in all national immunization programs.  Gavi, has established an accelerated vaccine introduction initiative with the objective of driving the sustainable introduction of rotavirus vaccine in 30 Gavi-eligible countries by 2015.  In addition, PATH, an international, non-profit organization to improve public health, is working to accelerate access to rotavirus vaccines and sustain their implementation and use in countries where children need them most urgently."

IMO, this is hard proof that Gorski (Orca) and Gorski's employer, Wayne State University has a financial interest in the vaccine and pharma industries, and it connects them to the vaccinations given in the small town of Mexico.

I have more evidence which brings the entire site of scienceblogs.com into question, if this doesn't convince you.  Scienceblogs.com has a connection to GE Healthcare, the United Nations, and other governmental agencies.  I can even connect that site to Shantha.

Gravock
Yet who is publishing verifiable information about the incident and the actual cause, and who is not?  Do you have actual evidence that the claimed cause:  sepsis caused by bacterial infection is not what actually sickened and killed those poor children?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: gravityblock on August 25, 2015, 02:22:07 AM
Yet who is publishing verifiable information about the incident and the actual cause, and who is not?  Do you have actual evidence that the claimed cause:  sepsis caused by bacterial infection is not what actually sickened and killed those poor children?

MarkE, those children were not sick prior to the vaccinations.  They either became sick or died after they were given the vaccinations.  Regardless of the cause, it makes the vaccine industry itself look really bad, and those who have a financial interest in the vaccine industry will say and do anything for damage control in order to protect their interests.  I would also like to add that WHO itself is a joke and is constantly being tied to evil and wrong doings.  MarkE, you're a troll in alternative energy, as Gorski is a troll in the pharma industry.  You should stop hitting the epic fail button on your keyboard.

Gravock
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on August 25, 2015, 03:08:05 AM
Reno County Health Department says the majority of whooping cough cases were found in vaccinated individuals
Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/050905_whooping_cough_outbreak_pertussis_vaccines.html#ixzz3jmi4ZwPE (http://www.naturalnews.com/050905_whooping_cough_outbreak_pertussis_vaccines.html#ixzz3jmi4ZwPE)



Mags
[/color]
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on August 25, 2015, 03:22:00 AM
MarkE, those children were not sick prior to the vaccinations.  They either became sick or died after they were given the vaccinations.  Regardless of the cause, it makes the vaccine industry itself look really bad, and those who have a financial interest in the vaccine industry will say and do anything for damage control in order to protect their interests.  I would also like to add that WHO itself is a joke and is constantly being tied to evil and wrong doings.  MarkE, you're a troll in alternative energy, as Gorski is a troll in the pharma industry.  You should stop hitting the epic fail button on your keyboard.

Gravock
A terrible tragedy has occurred.  Rational and moral people should be motivated to finding the root cause so that effective measures can be taken to prevent such a tragedy from happening again.  Finding the root cause requires calmly finding and evaluating the pertinent facts. 

If as Gorski asserts the injuries and death were caused by sepsis, then the appropriate corrective measures will be to change practices and/or formulations to better resist and / or detect bacterial build-up before use.  If the toxicity was from the vaccination formulations themselves, then here is your chance to try and prove that.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: gravityblock on August 25, 2015, 04:17:29 AM
A terrible tragedy has occurred.  Rational and moral people should be motivated to finding the root cause so that effective measures can be taken to prevent such a tragedy from happening again.  Finding the root cause requires calmly finding and evaluating the pertinent facts. 

If as Gorski asserts the injuries and death were caused by sepsis, then the appropriate corrective measures will be to change practices and/or formulations to better resist and / or detect bacterial build-up before use.  If the toxicity was from the vaccination formulations themselves, then here is your chance to try and prove that.

Tainted vaccines has happened over and over and over again.  Cancer viruses, bacteria, std's, parasites, etc are in the vaccines along with heavy metals and drugs to burn out a persons natural immune system.  I can assure you whatever may have caused the illnesses and deaths wasn't an accident.  It's more like, irrational and immoral people are motivated to downplay and to cover up the root cause in order to protect their interests and to further their own hidden agenda.  The only thing you know how to do is to invert the truth.

Gravock
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: MarkE on August 25, 2015, 05:07:42 AM
Tainted vaccines has happened over and over and over again.  Cancer viruses, bacteria, std's, parasites, etc are in the vaccines along with heavy metals and drugs to burn out a persons natural immune system.  I can assure you whatever may have caused the illnesses and deaths wasn't an accident.  It's more like, irrational and immoral people are motivated to downplay and to cover up the root cause in order to protect their interests and to further their own hidden agenda.  The only thing you know how to do is to invert the truth.

Gravock
Get help.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on August 25, 2015, 05:39:30 AM
Get help.

Your response MarkE falls within the category of
a desperate 'call for help' yourself. Desperate!

Have no fear, help is being administered and will
in due time prove effective.  Your resistance to
TRUTH need not necessarily be Terminal.

Your eyes too will be opened!
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: gravityblock on August 25, 2015, 05:45:14 AM
Get help.

No, it is you who needs help for denying what is before your own eyes in plain sight.  This is known as being willfully ignorant, and you have this concept perfected.

Gravock
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on August 25, 2015, 07:50:01 AM
MarkEs' answers are degrading...I saw him dissecting comments left and right to now quoting big chucks of comments from others and responding with very little vague stuff stuff. Or maybe his specialty is just electronics and has NO business thinking outside the box. :) but those lazy answers just need a little more energy in it lol they just not cut it to quote all of the guys responds to just give a one liner...lol, that's just iffy to say the least lol
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 26, 2015, 04:44:25 AM
MarkEs' answers are degrading...I saw him dissecting comments left and right to now quoting big chucks of comments from others and responding with very little vague stuff stuff. Or maybe his specialty is just electronics and has NO business thinking outside the box. :) but those lazy answers just need a little more energy in it lol they just not cut it to quote all of the guys responds to just give a one liner...lol, that's just iffy to say the least lol

How would you know?  You don't believe that JB Weld (Their under water variant) works under water when all of the tests and results prove otherwise?
You call that open minded?  The facts are in the links I had posted but yet you still deny it.  Just try opening your mind to new ideas Joel.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: gravityblock on August 26, 2015, 10:39:27 AM
Vaccine Infused Foods - Edible Vaccines: What’s in your Banana? (http://experimentalvaccines.org/2015/07/28/vaccine-infused-foods-edible-vaccines-whats-in-your-banana/)

Gravock


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: gravityblock on August 26, 2015, 10:52:23 AM
Cancer industry profits 'locked in' by the nagalase molecule injected into humans via vaccines (spurs tumor growth and explains aggressive vaccine push) (http://www.naturalnews.com/050582_nagalase_GcMAF_cancer_industry_profits.html).

Nagalase is a protein made by cancer cells and viruses.  Nagalase is produced by the viruses being injected via the vaccines. With the large number of vaccines on the vaccine schedule for children, the push for annual flu shots for adults, and the exposure of all of those not vaccinated to the people who were recently vaccinated with live viruses that shed those live viruses to the non vaccinated and vaccinated alike, there is a high probability that there are a large number of viruses in our bodies producing nagalase, which blocks our natural immune response and leads to an increase in many diseases including cancer.  More vaccines = more nagalase production = more cancer and more dieseases.

Gravock
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: gravityblock on August 26, 2015, 11:22:58 AM
Cancer industry profits 'locked in' by the nagalase molecule injected into humans via vaccines (spurs tumor growth and explains aggressive vaccine push) (http://www.naturalnews.com/050582_nagalase_GcMAF_cancer_industry_profits.html).

Nagalase is a protein made by cancer cells and viruses.  Nagalase is produced by the viruses being injected via the vaccines. With the large number of vaccines on the vaccine schedule for children, the push for annual flu shots for adults, and the exposure of all of those not vaccinated to the people who were recently vaccinated with live viruses that shed those live viruses to the non vaccinated and vaccinated alike, there is a high probability that there are a large number of viruses in our bodies producing nagalase, which blocks our natural immune response and leads to an increase in many diseases including cancer.  More vaccines = more nagalase production = more cancer and more dieseases.

Gravock

Nagalese blocks the GC protein from attaching itself to vitamin D, thus preventing the immune system from doing its job and therefore causing cancer and other serious diseases. Without an active immune system, cancer and viral infections can spread rapidly.

Gravock
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: gravityblock on August 26, 2015, 12:17:25 PM
Scientist and Stem Cell Expert Says Don't Be So Quick to Believe Vaccines Are Safe (http://www.aleteia.org/en/health/article/scientist-and-stem-cell-expert-says-dont-be-so-quick-to-believe-vaccines-are-safe-5321336255676416)!  <----- Page 1 of 3.

Q:  Aside from the morality of using aborted fetal cell lines in the first place why are these vaccines problematic?

A:  The vaccines are contaminated with toxic residuals from the fetal cell lines that are known to be able to trigger autoimmunity and insertional mutagenesis, which is when foreign DNA inserts itself into a recipient’s genome. It is by nature a mutation which can cause disease if it inserts in the wrong place. Perhaps 85% of the genome is susceptible to disease if an insertion occurs.

Q:  I read that you are also concerned that vaccines using aborted fetal cell lines may be linked to childhood cancers and other diseases that may not show up for years. Can you explain?

A:  Insertional mutagenesis occurs most readily in stem cells. Lymphomas and leukemias include certain subtypes that involve mutations in stem or progenitor cells. If insertional mutagenesis occurs in a stem cell, that stem cell will remain dormant in the germinal center in the case of BL, FL and DCLBL until it is triggered to grow and mature by the presentation of an antigen (bacteria or virus, etc.). The maturation includes a process called hypermutation and class switching. Mistargeted hypermutation is known to be a likely mechanism in B cell lymphomas. If a B cell precursor or stem cell has been the recipient of insertional mutagenesis, this insertion could interfere with normal class switching and lead to chromosomal translocations and other abnormalities, causing cancer. Insertional mutagenesis puts the cell as subsequent risk for additional mutations and disease.

<-----One evil (Planned Parenthood), leads to a greater evil (Contaminated vaccines with toxic residuals from the fetal cell lines which causes cancer and other diseases)----->

Gravock
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: gravityblock on August 26, 2015, 12:25:47 PM
Scientist and Stem Cell Expert Says Don't Be So Quick to Believe Vaccines Are Safe (http://www.aleteia.org/en/health/article/scientist-and-stem-cell-expert-says-dont-be-so-quick-to-believe-vaccines-are-safe-5321336255676416)!

Q:  Aside from the morality of using aborted fetal cell lines in the first place why are these vaccines problematic?

A:  The vaccines are contaminated with toxic residuals from the fetal cell lines that are known to be able to trigger autoimmunity and insertional mutagenesis, which is when foreign DNA inserts itself into a recipient’s genome. It is by nature a mutation which can cause disease if it inserts in the wrong place. Perhaps 85% of the genome is susceptible to disease if an insertion occurs.

Q:  I read that you are also concerned that vaccines using aborted fetal cell lines may be linked to childhood cancers and other diseases that may not show up for years. Can you explain?

A:  Insertional mutagenesis occurs most readily in stem cells. Lymphomas and leukemias include certain subtypes that involve mutations in stem or progenitor cells. If insertional mutagenesis occurs in a stem cell, that stem cell will remain dormant in the germinal center in the case of BL, FL and DCLBL until it is triggered to grow and mature by the presentation of an antigen (bacteria or virus, etc.). The maturation includes a process called hypermutation and class switching. Mistargeted hypermutation is known to be a likely mechanism in B cell lymphomas. If a B cell precursor or stem cell has been the recipient of insertional mutagenesis, this insertion could interfere with normal class switching and lead to chromosomal translocations and other abnormalities, causing cancer. Insertional mutagenesis puts the cell as subsequent risk for additional mutations and disease.

<-----One evil (Planned Parenthood), leads to a greater evil (Contaminated vaccines with toxic residuals from the fetal cell lines which causes cancer and other diseases)------>

Gravock

USA & Canada - Aborted Fetal Cell Line Products (Aug 2015) (https://cogforlife.org/vaccineListOrigFormat.pdf)

Gravock
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: gravityblock on September 03, 2015, 08:51:20 AM
Shocking video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvAOoDtbdVI) posted to Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/AVPHMEX/videos/1479482689044091/) shows a group of young girls convulsing on the floor after reportedly taking the Gardisil vaccine somewhere in Mexico.

Gravock
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: fritznien on September 04, 2015, 05:11:49 AM
from the vaccine or the stress of being told the vaccine is deadly?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on September 04, 2015, 05:39:31 AM
Perhaps a combination of both:  Once the convulsions
begin the fear and anxiety levels rise exponentially.

Hopefully there will be no permanent damage to their
bodies.  Some who receive the vaccination are left
with permanent disability.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on September 05, 2015, 07:58:04 AM
Petition to overturn California's forced vaccination bill gains traction, despite one politician's refusal to sign after his own son was injured by vaccinesLearn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/051055_SB277_Referendum_California_forced_vaccination.html#ixzz3kqCgWLh2 (http://www.naturalnews.com/051055_SB277_Referendum_California_forced_vaccination.html#ixzz3kqCgWLh2)




Mags

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Pirate88179 on September 05, 2015, 08:42:56 AM
I do not like forced "anything" by the government.  They do not have the power to do so.  The constitution limits this power for a reason.

Bill
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: fritznien on September 05, 2015, 04:34:26 PM
 bill they are not forced. a medical exemption is easy enough to get for those that need it.
from what i hear there are some doctors that will give them out to anybody that asks and pays.
home schooling is always an option.
the real question is why anyone would leave their child open to all the illness
vaccines prevent.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on September 05, 2015, 10:40:00 PM
I smell troll poop.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on September 14, 2015, 08:51:22 AM
Here's a good explanation of the history and sheds some light...watching the video fully will make you understand a little further regarding your health, corruption, and, most importantly,  your health IMO. We are in a time where mature adults need to educate themselves via the freee knowledge that is out there and like Hitler had his people doing his dirty work, we can all change that around as a unity. All it takes is for people to ASK QUESTIONS! IMO. https://youtu.be/3GZhqzmUjis
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: joel321 on September 24, 2015, 06:23:39 AM
This has been all over the place as of lately and shows a perfect example of big Pharma greed. https://www.rt.com/usa/316243-ceo-aids-pill-price-backlash/ ...I don't see this as of a big deal because this has been happening "under the carpet" for a very long time. But there it is. Also, a perfect example how people, when they unite, can make a big difference.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeіzen on November 09, 2015, 09:28:36 PM
Shocking video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvAOoDtbdVI) posted to Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/AVPHMEX/videos/1479482689044091/) shows a group of young girls convulsing on the floor after reportedly taking the Gardisil vaccine somewhere in Mexico.

Gravock
From what little I can infer from the dialogue.  The person speaking is convinced this has something to do with the HPV vaccine but the two or three girls which appear to be moving are doing so in a manner which is atyptical for a seizure. While I haven't seen every kind of seizure.  I have seen epileptic seizures as well as ones which are trauma induced.  These aren't that.  These look like someone wrestling with someone.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeіzen on November 10, 2015, 04:39:48 PM
Scientist and Stem Cell Expert Says Don't Be So Quick to Believe Vaccines Are Safe
It's kind of cute when people say things like "don't be so quick" - when the vast majority of funds funneled into pharmaceuticals are for safety testing.
Quote
Q:  Aside from the morality of using aborted fetal cell lines in the first place why are these vaccines problematic?
What would be the moral issue here exactly?  It's not like a fetus was aborted for the purpose of being used here.  It not like it's perpetuating some market for aborted fetuses. This is what logicians refer to as a "conjoined question"
Quote
The vaccines are contaminated with toxic residuals from the fetal cell lines that are known to be able to trigger autoimmunity and insertional mutagenesis, which is when foreign DNA inserts itself into a recipient’s genome. It is by nature a mutation which can cause disease if it inserts in the wrong place. Perhaps 85% of the genome is susceptible to disease if an insertion occurs.
In other words she believes that there is sufficient amounts of free DNA which will insert itself into your genome.  You realize that you consume a considerable amount of human DNA every day.  Probably some tiny fraction gets into your blood stream.  So perhaps the argument rests on some idea that this is "special DNA" if so they don't really tell you what is special about it.

Her desire for completely unvaccinated research is disappointing because it tells me that for all her schooling she didn't take statistics.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on November 10, 2015, 06:18:17 PM
It's kind of cute when people say things like "don't be so quick" - when the vast majority of funds funneled into pharmaceuticals are for safety testing.What would be the moral issue here exactly?  It's not like a fetus was aborted for the purpose of being used here.  It not like it's perpetuating some market for aborted fetuses. This is what logicians refer to as a "conjoined question"In other words she believes that there is sufficient amounts of free DNA which will insert itself into your genome.  You realize that you consume a considerable amount of human DNA every day.  Probably some tiny fraction gets into your blood stream.  So perhaps the argument rests on some idea that this is "special DNA" if so they don't really tell you what is special about it.

Her desire for completely unvaccinated research is disappointing because it tells me that for all her schooling she didn't take statistics.

"It's kind of cute when people say things like "don't be so quick" - when the vast majority of funds funneled into pharmaceuticals are for safety testing.What would be the moral issue here exactly?"

Yeah. Sure they are. And it should be accepted as fact since you say so.  ::)


"It's not like a fetus was aborted for the purpose of being used here.  It not like it's perpetuating some market for aborted fetuses.

Its not like???   ::)    The push for so called "womens health" and the pro abortion fight is just that. A push to get body parts from 'BABIES". You will burn one day for supporting this.


" This is what logicians refer to as a "conjoined question"In other words she believes that there is sufficient amounts of free DNA which will insert itself into your genome.  You realize that you consume a considerable amount of human DNA every day."

Yeah. Like in Pepsi cola?  Now why would we want aborted baby ANYTHING in a soft drink? ::)


"Her desire for completely unvaccinated research is disappointing because it tells me that for all her schooling she didn't take statistics."

Bash Bash Bash. ::)

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeіzen on November 10, 2015, 08:07:09 PM
Yeah. Sure they are. And it should be accepted as fact since you say so.

Nope because of math.  See the money it takes to bring pharmaceuticals to market is mostly bound up in testing (after a drug is brought to market this much or more money is spent on marketing).  Efficacy testing is always going to require significantly smaller samples than safety testing.  Do you know why?  I'm willing to bet that you don't.

Also if you actually paid attention to what drug manufacturers are actually lobbying for you would see this as well.
Quote
Its not like???
Nobody asked someone to abort this particular fetus in order to harvest it's lung cells exactly once.  QED.  Your imagined "baby harvesting conspiracy" is an entirely different subject perhaps more appropriately brought up with your therapist.
Quote
Yeah
Glad you agree.  Keep on frothing at the mouth there crazy boy.
Quote
Bash Bash Bash.
It's simply math again.  Either vaccines represent an absolute certainty or they represent a risk.  If the later then you would see a dose/response relationship.  Hence completely unvaccinated studies are not necessary and generally speaking would be of lower power.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on November 10, 2015, 08:45:17 PM
Quote from: Sar-Keі-Zun
See the money it takes to bring pharmaceuticals to market is mostly bound up in testing (after a drug is brought to market this much or more money is spent on marketing).  Efficacy testing is always going to require significantly smaller samples than safety testing.

Do you know why?  I'm willing to bet that you don't.

Also if you actually paid attention to what drug manufacturers are actually lobbying for you would see this as well.

Nobody asked someone to abort this particular fetus in order to harvest it's lung cells.  QED.Glad you agree.  Keep on frothing at the mouth there crazy boy.It's simply math again.  Either vaccines represent an absolute certainty or they represent a risk.  If the later then you would see a dose/response relationship.  Hence completely unvaccinated studies are not necessary and generally speaking would be of lower power.

Sark, your postings are very revealing.

It is very clear that you know nothing about the pharmaceutical
industry; that you've never been party to any of their gyrations.

You've been programmed to bolster an AGENDA which you
really have no understanding of.  Your motive is naught
more than personal glorification and self gratification with
a serious lust for lucre.

Try as you might you're not making progress in your operation
of disinformation.  TRUTH is becoming ever more popular with
the gradually awakening populace.



Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeіzen on November 10, 2015, 10:28:16 PM
Sark, your postings are very revealing.
Your narrative device is kind of obvious don't you think?  You just cast vague aspersions that some larger context exists which is different than the evidence presented. :-)  Cheap carny tricks.
 
My posts merely state what evidence rather clearly indicates.  It's kind of amusing to see you're still fabricating your own narrative either as part of your trolling agenda and/or feeding your delusions though.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on November 11, 2015, 02:07:45 AM
Sark, your pathetically desperate replies reveal much too.

Vaccination Victory! (http://www.zengardner.com/vaccine-victory-parents-stop-states-unethical-hpv-vaccine-push/)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeіzen on November 11, 2015, 02:53:23 AM
Sark, your pathetically desperate replies reveal much too.
Welp, they seem to reveal that I've got you pegged. :-) :-) I mean your sentence right there vaguely attests to a larger contrary body of evidence without actually providing any argument for one.  So thanks for confirming that all you have is slight-of-hand.

Please post again soon! :-)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on November 11, 2015, 05:59:34 AM
Sarky Lad,

Your desperation is getting intense once again! ;)

Feeling a bit down are you? :o

Cheer up Mate - the TRUTH will penetrate your noggin
at some point down your desperate path of error... 8) :) ???
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeіzen on November 11, 2015, 06:33:31 AM
Cheer up Mate - the TRUTH will penetrate your noggin
at some point down your desperate path of error...
...and again a vague attestation to a larger contrary body of evidence without actually providing any argument for one.

Please keep it up.  This makes refuting you easy.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on November 11, 2015, 08:50:49 PM
The Vaccine Injury Compensation Program

Feel lucky? (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/11/10/vaccine-injury-compensation.aspx)


Quote from: Article
Three decades ago, Congress created a federal vaccine injury compensation program (VICP) and gave the pharmaceutical and medical trade industries a partial product liability shield under the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986.

The goal was simple: to restrict civil lawsuits against vaccine manufacturers and negligent doctors whenever government mandated vaccines injure and kill Americans.1 (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/11/10/vaccine-injury-compensation.aspx#_edn1)

In the 21st century, Congress went further and directed federal agencies to develop a public-private business partnership with the pharmaceutical industry.2 (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/11/10/vaccine-injury-compensation.aspx#_edn1),3 (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/11/10/vaccine-injury-compensation.aspx#_edn1) Today, multi-national corporations marketing vaccines enjoy a $15 billion dollar U.S. and $30 billion dollar global vaccine market that will reach $100 billion in 10 years.4 (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/11/10/vaccine-injury-compensation.aspx#_edn1),5 (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/11/10/vaccine-injury-compensation.aspx#_edn1)

At the same time, Congress appropriates billions of U.S. taxpayer dollars to federal agencies working with Big Pharma to develop hundreds of new vaccines,6 (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/11/10/vaccine-injury-compensation.aspx#_edn1),7 (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/11/10/vaccine-injury-compensation.aspx#_edn1) while vaccine licensing standards have been lowered so companies can fast track experimental vaccines to market.8 (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/11/10/vaccine-injury-compensation.aspx#_edn1),9 (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/11/10/vaccine-injury-compensation.aspx#_edn1)

Meaningful congressional oversight on vaccine regulation and policymaking is non-existent today, in part because the pharmaceutical industry is the number one wealthiest and most powerful lobby on Capitol Hill.10 (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/11/10/vaccine-injury-compensation.aspx#_edn1),11 (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/11/10/vaccine-injury-compensation.aspx#_edn1),12 (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/11/10/vaccine-injury-compensation.aspx#_edn1),13 (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/11/10/vaccine-injury-compensation.aspx#_edn1)

Obtaining Vaccine Injury Compensation: Do You Feel Lucky?


Parents, who file a claim today on behalf of a brain damaged vaccine injured child in the federal vaccine injury compensation program (VICP) under the 1986 Act, know that the odds of obtaining financial assistance from the government are not much better than the odds of winning a lottery.14 (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/11/10/vaccine-injury-compensation.aspx#_edn1)


Sarky,

Aye, there is indeed a larger body of evidence.  In due time
you'll no doubt feel inclined to examine it.  Once the TRUTH
makes entry into your noggin. ;) :) ::)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeіzen on November 12, 2015, 02:49:07 AM
Aye, there is indeed a larger body of evidence.  In due time
you'll no doubt feel inclined to examine it.  Once the TRUTH
makes entry into your noggin. ;) :) ::)
Again, vague reference to some larger body of evidence but provides no reason to believe it exists.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on November 12, 2015, 05:32:17 AM
...and again a vague attestation to a larger contrary body of evidence without actually providing any argument for one.

Please keep it up.  This makes refuting you easy.

"and again a vague attestation to a larger contrary body of evidence without actually providing any argument for one"

And you, always stating large bodies of evidence but never posting to back your statement. Hypocrite.

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: fritznien on November 12, 2015, 05:44:22 AM
http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html
Seamonkey  have a read thru this to see what is covered and how to make a claim

"From 2006 to 2014, over 2.5 billion doses of covered vaccines were distributed in the U.S. according to the CDC. 3,300 claims were adjudicated by the Court for claims filed in this time period and of those 2,054 were compensated. This means for every 1 million doses of vaccine that were distributed, 1 individual was compensated.
Since 1988, over 16,452 claims have been filed with the VICP. Over that 27 year time period, 14,245 claims have been adjudicated, with 4,333 of these determined to be compensable, while 9,912 were dismissed. Total compensation paid over the life of the program is approximately $3.2 billion."
the only thing with lottery odds is needing compensation.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on November 12, 2015, 05:59:10 AM
http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html (http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html)
Seamonkey  have a read thru this to see what is covered and how to make a claim

"From 2006 to 2014, over 2.5 billion doses of covered vaccines were distributed in the U.S. according to the CDC. 3,300 claims were adjudicated by the Court for claims filed in this time period and of those 2,054 were compensated. This means for every 1 million doses of vaccine that were distributed, 1 individual was compensated.
Since 1988, over 16,452 claims have been filed with the VICP. Over that 27 year time period, 14,245 claims have been adjudicated, with 4,333 of these determined to be compensable, while 9,912 were dismissed. Total compensation paid over the life of the program is approximately $3.2 billion."
the only thing with lottery odds is needing compensation.



"The chart containing the full dataset is still available, but you have to know where to look for it. The following "Data & Statistics" page at the HRSA site contains a link at the bottom to a PDF report. After opening the PDF, scroll to the bottom for the complete data, which used to be available right on the front page of HRSA's Vaccine Injury Compensation Program website:
HRSA.gov (http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/data.html).
Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/049960_vaccine_injuries_government_database_censorship.html#ixzz3rFZ48Bay (http://www.naturalnews.com/049960_vaccine_injuries_government_database_censorship.html#ixzz3rFZ48Bay)


"In the unusual vaccine court, the government (http://www.naturalnews.com/government.html) acts on behalf of pharmaceutical companies rather than the public, defending vaccine makers against alleged victims," adds Attkisson. "Money damages are not paid by vaccine companies, but through fees collected from patients on every dose of vaccine."
Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/049960_vaccine_injuries_government_database_censorship.html#ixzz3rFZKSD1Q (http://www.naturalnews.com/049960_vaccine_injuries_government_database_censorship.html#ixzz3rFZKSD1Q)


"And yet, despite this, more than $3 billion has been awarded to vaccine-damaged children and their families over the past several decades. Since 1988, over 15,916 claims have been filed in vaccine "court," and more than 4,000 have since been compensated."
Learn more:  http://www.naturalnews.com/049960_vaccine_injuries_government_database_censorship.html#ixzz3rFZgmxta (http://www.naturalnews.com/049960_vaccine_injuries_government_database_censorship.html#ixzz3rFZgmxta)


Mags
[/color]
[/color]
[/color]
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeіzen on November 12, 2015, 03:08:01 PM
And you, always stating large bodies of evidence but never posting to back your statement. Hypocrite.
Yawn. So last time you brought up something about my comment that drug companies, when developing a product spend much more on safety than on anything else.  Your response was that I want to people to believe it because I say so.  My response was that the math is quite clear. 

So I'll assume that you didn't understand that because like most people here you suck at this for some reason.

So ask yourself this:  Where do you think there is a higher probability density?  In the variability in drug effect or in the variability between subjects? HmmmMMMMMMmmm?  Do you think human beings are all the same?

If this doesn't make it clear, I'll give you another hint.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeіzen on November 12, 2015, 03:19:04 PM
Quote from: Moronland
The goal was simple: to restrict civil lawsuits against vaccine manufacturers and negligent doctors whenever government mandated vaccines injure and kill Americans.
These criticisms are kind of interesting.  NVICP has a lower standard of evidence than a full on court case does.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: fritznien on November 13, 2015, 11:57:23 PM
These criticisms are kind of interesting.  NVICP has a lower standard of evidence than a full on court case does.
-
 the key word here sark is negligent. the NVICP was set up to protect vaccine manufacturers from lawsuits. not for
faulty products but for bad outcomes. for any known bad side effects the NVICP will award money no problem.
but the lawyers can't bullshit the special master and there is no jury to manipulate with a sad story. so only cases where
someone has a real injury that a vaccine could cause will be paid.
 this has kept the drug companies producing vaccines and protected the public. as you say the standard of evidence is lower and
win or loose the lawyers get paid.
 you can still sue in regular court, but if you loose in NVICP it would be hard to win.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: sarkeіzen on November 14, 2015, 04:29:49 AM
the key word here sark is negligent. the NVICP was set up to protect vaccine manufacturers from lawsuits.
I think the quote says "negligent doctors".  Which is probably just being used as invective as real medical negligence wouldn't be covered by the NVICP anyway.  Regardless of the intention of the NVICP it probably pays out more often and more quickly than the courts.   It took the Pandemrix lawsuit five years just to win in the UK.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on November 27, 2015, 07:13:12 AM
Origins of Vaccines attached below.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on January 29, 2016, 10:54:16 PM
Shrunken baby brains caused by Zika virus or by new Tdap vaccine?

http://www.jimstone.is/zika.html
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: AlienGrey on February 01, 2016, 12:29:30 PM
Shrunken baby brains caused by Zika virus or by new Tdap vaccine?

http://www.jimstone.is/zika.html
Well where ever that comes from needs closing down and destroying ! it's all about depopulation wepon ! we need to know what these fuckers are putting in so called vaccinations when you have governments coming out with statements like ‘we don’t need to kill people with bombs, we can do it with vaccines’ one tends to think of Ebola and Aids and now this brain shrinking virus and also ‘gene altering’ substances that have been developed in the war on over population and NWO agenda. Thats us!

Pick the shit out of that but I dare say it’s true, true !
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Dog-One on February 07, 2016, 05:44:15 AM
Here's a vaccine for all of you, even the $hitheads:

http://www.quantumleap.is/watchmovie/
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: fritznien on February 07, 2016, 06:13:15 AM
Here's a vaccine for all of you, even the $hitheads:

http://www.quantumleap.is/watchmovie/ (http://www.quantumleap.is/watchmovie/)

You do know what MMS is. Bleach.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Dog-One on February 07, 2016, 06:19:43 AM
You do know what MMS is. Bleach.

Nope.   I've consumed a ton of it and I'm still alive because of it.

But say what you want, it's your ass.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: fritznien on February 07, 2016, 07:43:56 AM
so is it Sodium chlorite or not?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Dog-One on February 07, 2016, 08:15:42 AM
so is it Sodium chlorite or not?


One bottle is Sodium Chlorite, the other is Citric or Hydrochloric Acid.

When you mix them, you get Chlorine Dioxide.  That's the magic.  It only lasts for a short time in open air, so you need to use it right away, or cap it off.

When you mix the stuff, you want it to be fully activated.  Never ingest or use the Sodium Chlorite directly.  It's easy to tell, because the stuff will literally be the color of urine and has a strong chlorine smell.  The secret is all in the concentration and allowing your body to become familiar with it over time.  Take it slow at first and work up a tolerance.  Once your body has become accustom to it, you can take strong doses--strong enough to overpower snake venom if need be.

It does just what they say it does.  I thought it was BS at first, just like most people, but after a while it becomes obvious it doesn't hurt you.  When I realized this stuff was for real, was right after a group of us went out to dinner one night.  The food was bad.  Six of us in the group ate it; five of us got sick.  Guess who didn't?  Me!  I knew something wasn't quite right and took a couple of big doses of MMS when I got home.  Everyone else was hording the bathroom.  After a week or so, the question kept coming up whether the food was bad, the majority answer was that it couldn't have been because one of us didn't get sick.  When I asked them if they wanted to go back, they declined.   :D


Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: fritznien on February 07, 2016, 07:33:05 PM
dog did you read what you wrote?
the stuff is bleach, you said so.
if you thought it was BS then why would you take a big slug.
lots of other things i would do if i thought i had eaten bad food.
your snake venom comment is over the top guy.
how much bleach do you need to drink for a cottonmouth bite?
myself i have a policy of not depending on magic for my health needs.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 07, 2016, 09:29:14 PM
Household Chlorine Bleach is Sodium Hypochlorite. (NaClO)

It is not the same as Sodium Chlorite. (NaClO2)

Chlorine Dioxide (ClO2) has very interesting properties:

Chlorine Dioxide (http://www.lenntech.com/processes/disinfection/chemical/disinfectants-chlorine-dioxide.htm)

More about Chlorine Dioxide (http://www.safeox.com/chlorine-dioxide-clo2)

How to safely make Chlorine Dioxide at home. (http://www.cancertutor.com/chlorine_dioxide/)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Dog-One on February 07, 2016, 09:39:42 PM
There's just no helping some folks SeaMonkey.  You can draw them a map and still they couldn't find their own ass with either hand.

That's fine, as long as they stay the hell out of the way of others, which they won't, they can't.  It's their business to be in everyone else's business.  They know everything and expect everyone else to bow to their presence, take their vaccines and love their master.  All I can say is:

"May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't."
  --  General George S. Patton, Jr.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 10, 2016, 10:50:55 PM
Aye, that is true.  Hopefully there will be others with a
more receptive attitude who may benefit from Truth.

Russia is assuming a leading role in exposing the corruption. (http://yournewswire.com/putin-western-governments-are-enslaving-humanity-through-vaccines/)

Quote from: Article
According to the report, Western governments are working hand in hand with corporations, using money hungry scientists and educational bodies as tools, to pull the wool over the eyes of the largely complacent, unsuspecting public. But the public aren’t just being conned, they are slowly but surely being enslaved. This is the masterplan.

You must fight this. Because once you are enslaved, you can’t just realise you don’t like it anymore and decide to free yourself. This kind of enslavement is a state of being. It’s what you are on a cellular level. When your children are barely human, psychologically-altered bots, their nerve cells and synapses failing to connect, and their neurodevelopmental processes dulled to the point of restricting them to sub-human level repetitive grunts and gormless stares, what are you going to do then? The elite have won. You and your descendants are now officially slave class, no better than battery chickens, and will be used for whatever purpose the elite deem suitable for you. This is a prison you can’t escape from.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Dog-One on February 10, 2016, 11:30:41 PM
Hopefully there will be others with a more receptive attitude who may benefit from Truth.

Here's one that will make your hair stand up:
http://rense.com/general96/cdc_oxford.html

But since it involves far more than just a single person, I guess it will end up filed as a conspiracy theory and ignored.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on February 11, 2016, 11:13:41 PM
Here's one that will make your hair stand up:
http://rense.com/general96/cdc_oxford.html (http://rense.com/general96/cdc_oxford.html)

But since it involves far more than just a single person, I guess it will end up filed as a conspiracy theory and ignored.

http://www.naturalnews.com/052943_Zika_virus_hoax_larvacide_chemical_GM_mosquitoes.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/052942_Zika_virus_miscarriages_vaccine_injuries.html

Mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 10, 2016, 11:12:25 PM
Corrupted politicians say the darndest things! (http://www.naturalnews.com/053259_Jill_Hennessy_vaccine_quackery_health_risks.html#)

It seems to be commonplace these days in all
of the "Western" nations.  Could it be for the
Love of Money?
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 11, 2016, 03:05:59 AM
Medical Kidnapping as we enter into the New
Order of the World. (http://www.zengardner.com/60028-2/)

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: fritznien on March 11, 2016, 06:11:55 AM
SM the guy throws a 20 percent survival rate around for chemo.
what is the survival rate for alternative oncology.
kim tinkham is dead, she went with the PH thing.
Jess ainscough, aka the wellness warrior did gearson among other things and is dead.
steve jobs tried diet.
dose anyone survive alternatives?
if something works you need to scream it from the rooftops,not just
complain about how poorly the standard treatment works. because the standard dose work
at least some of the time. see my first line thats your guys number.

fritznien
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 11, 2016, 08:23:12 PM
There are numerous alternatives to the standard
therapy which are safe and effective.  The most
important factor, however, is stress elimination.
A stressful life-style or circumstance will be a
killer.  Stress is responsible for many diseases
including many of the cancers.  Stress immobilizes
our natural immune system and renders it helpless.

Effective cures for cancer have been stamped out
by the establishment since the early 1900s.  The
"Standard Therapy" is ALL about MONEY and CONTROL.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Dog-One on March 11, 2016, 09:24:10 PM
Here's another vaccination you can take every night while you sleep:
http://magneticosleep.com/about-magnetism/video-lecture/

I'm sure this is like bleach too and will kill you.   :P

Oh wait no, he's a crackpot just trying to make a buck; the product he sells will do nothing to improve your heal.


If you believe these two statements above, you probably deserve the world you are making for yourself.  Be my guest and knock yourself out.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 11, 2016, 11:37:19 PM
Quote from: FritzNien
dose anyone survive alternatives?
if something works you need to scream it from the rooftops...

Here is a good place to begin the research. (http://www.chrisbeatcancer.com/)

For those who may be interested.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: fritznien on March 12, 2016, 01:17:37 AM
i think i will pass on chris wark.
"The oncologist told me I was “insane” but I decided against chemotherapy after surgery."
it was the surgery that cured him not diet.
ya got anything solid or just wishful thinking.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 12, 2016, 01:28:40 AM
Quote from: FritzNien
ya got anything solid or just wishful thinking.
   

You'll have to delve into the resource a little more deeply.
And follow some links.  With just a bit of effort you'll find
the answers you seek.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 16, 2016, 09:28:53 PM
Thankfully, there are many good People who have
personal knowledge of the corruption which is
rampant in the so-called "Health Care" industry and
they bravely speak out to make the TRUTH known (http://www.healthfreedoms.org/vaccines-are-not-for-public-health-its-really-about-profit-former-merck-sales-rep-reveals/).

In The West, unfortunately, the Media cannot be
trusted to perform as real journalists.  The Love
of Money seems to turn people into Supporters of
The Lie.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on March 28, 2016, 05:37:29 AM


VAXXED film pulled from Robert De Niro's Tribeca Film Festival following totalitarian censorship demands from pharma-linked vaccine pushers and media science trolls

Learn more:

  http://www.naturalnews.com/053445_VAXXED_film_Robert_De_Niro_Tribeca_Festival.html#ixzz44AIvdlK5 (http://www.naturalnews.com/053445_VAXXED_film_Robert_De_Niro_Tribeca_Festival.html#ixzz44AIvdlK5)


Mags

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Tink on April 03, 2016, 06:41:20 AM
How Aluminum in Vaccines Affects Your Health

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2016/04/03/aluminum-vaccine-health-effects.aspx
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Dog-One on April 03, 2016, 07:40:25 AM
VAXXED film pulled from Robert De Niro's Tribeca Film Festival following totalitarian censorship demands from pharma-linked vaccine pushers and media science trolls

Yeap.  Just as a thought.

myself i have a policy of not depending on magic for my health needs.

Fritznien on the other hand will instead trust the CDC with his life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdCU2DfMBpU

Not me.  In fact doing the exact opposite of what the CDC tells you is likely far safer.  I'll stick with my "bleach".  It works and works well.

But to each their own. 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: AlienGrey on April 04, 2016, 02:20:09 AM
Vaccines fuck em I say, they are toxic, if anyone tries sticking a needle in you, my advice is punch their lights out !
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 19, 2016, 12:22:55 AM
Quote from: Linked Article
Warning: Don’t read this article if you want to avoid feeling an unpleasant sensation in the pit of your stomach.

The issue here is: refusing to believe an uncomfortable fact.

An unpleasant fact.

A devastating fact.

There is a simple formula that describes how the public refuses to believe an uncomfortable fact.

It goes this way:
“Well, if that were true, then…”

It’s a statement that suggests a person is standing at the edge of a cliff. And if he accepted some particularly unpleasant fact, he’d suddenly fall off.

Another way to look at it: if he accepted this fact, it would lead, by contagion, to him admitting there were other very uncomfortable truths. And then, by extension, like branches quickly growing out of a tree, a whole host of multiplying shocks would become known.

So it is, in the area of vaccines.
The experts, like preening peacocks, assure us that the shots are amazingly safe. After all, they’ve done the studies. They’ve published the studies.

There is widespread fraud in those reports, because, for example, of the short follow-up period—as if adverse effects could only occur in a 72-hour window, or over the course of a few weeks. Who decided that? Who made that arbitrary rule?

And then, most importantly, studies are not real life. We have seen glowing assessments of medical drugs in print, but when they are (like Vioxx) released for public use, people start dropping like flies.

In the case of vaccines (in real life), the one system for reporting human damage is broken. Completely broken. It’s called VAERS, the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (https://vaers.hhs.gov/). It’s run by the CDC and the FDA. (My readers are aware of how many crimes and lies I’ve laid at the door of those two august agencies.)
...

Full Article here. (http://www.zengardner.com/61931-2/)  Vaccine Damage:  The Hidden Truth
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 21, 2016, 05:09:27 AM
Truth is definitely not wanted anywhere in our Modern World.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on May 09, 2016, 10:33:05 PM
The New Government Attack on Pregnant Women (http://www.zengardner.com/vaccines-new-government-attack-pregnant-women/)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on May 18, 2016, 06:00:43 AM
Another gimmick used by Big Med is to vaccinate the unwary
while under anaesthesia during surgery.

Fortunately, there is a way to assure that you are not vaccinated
while surgery is in progress.

Hospitals Force Vaccinating Patients Without Their Knowledge.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on May 22, 2016, 02:04:02 AM
Hospitals Force Vaccinating Patients Without Their Knowledge (http://healthimpactnews.com/2016/nurse-whistleblower-hospitals-vaccinating-patients-by-force-without-their-knowledge/)

Quote from: Article
When you sign consent for surgery, you can specifically say ‘no vaccines, I don’t want this.’ You can write an initial after what you say you do not want and they have to honor that. And if they don’t honor that, they can be sued.

Our Sick Society Eagerly Creates Sick Children
 (http://www.therebel.is/news/kaminski/876497-our-sick-society-eagerly-creates-sick-children)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on September 08, 2016, 09:33:53 PM
Anthony Samsel on Vaccines contaminated with
Glyphosate.
 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k33iFXHlOnY)
Scientists Anthony Samsel and Stephanie Seneff have just gotten the fifth peer reviewed paper on Glyphosate published. Its named "Glyphosate pathways to modern diseases V: Amino acid analogue of glycine in diverse proteins".

In this regard Tony Mitra interviewed Anthony Samsel, to cover the newly emerging scientific findings on Glyphosate and how it can and does hurt creatures including humans.

In the course of the interview, Anthony Samsel mentioned the issues being covered in their next paper, the 6th one. This covers a number of vaccines that use animal byproducts such as egg protein and gelatine. He suspected these products might be contaminated with Glyphosate, if the vaccine makers were using factory farmed animals fed with Glyphosate laced GMO feed.

To verify, he got a large number of vaccines that do use egg proteins and gelatine and got them analyzed in multiple labs. The results confirmed his doubt. The vaccines themselves are largely contaminated with Glyphosate and pose serious hazard to those that are and will be vaccinated using these products.

This video covers only that part of the talk.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on February 12, 2017, 02:52:36 AM
Yale University study shows association between vaccines and brain disorders (http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=146985)

Quote from: The Article
Robert F. Kennedy Jr — Ecowatch via SOTT Feb 9, 2017

A team of researchers from the Yale School of Medicine and Penn State College of Medicine have found a disturbing association between the timing of vaccines and the onset of certain brain disorders in a subset of children.

Analyzing five years’ worth of private health insurance data on children ages 6-15, these scientists found that young people vaccinated in the previous three to 12 months were significantly more likely to be diagnosed with certain neuropsychiatric disorders than their non-vaccinated counterparts.

This new study, which raises important questions about whether over-vaccination may be triggering immune and neurological damage in a subset of vulnerable children (something parents of children with autism have been saying for years), was published in the peer-reviewed journal Frontiers in Psychiatry, Jan. 19.


More at link.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on April 03, 2017, 12:18:37 AM
Vaccine "False Flag" operation may be imminent. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri1-xGMRMjk)

Quote from: Health Ranger
The vaccine industry is on the run, with new investigations coming out every week
that expose the criminal corruption, science lies and medical ethics violations of
the corrupt vaccine industry.
As a result, they're right now plotting a massive false flag "outbreak" to invoke
mass hysteria and push more vaccine mandates where the government can dictate
"penetrations" of your body with foreign DNA and toxic metals.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: AlienGrey on April 03, 2017, 07:48:41 AM

Exposing the Truth about Vaccines
Dr. John Bergman
Dr. John Bergman
243,973
54,504 views
Published on Sep 19, 2016

If you don't at least doubt the safety or effectiveness of vaccines you definitely will after this video. Dr. Bergman uncovers the truth about several vaccines and explains why they are not safe or effective.

At http://bergmanchiropractic.com and http://Owners-Guide.com we strive to educate people on natural solutions to health.
http://www.theArthritisReversalSystem... is my online video course with 21 videos, 3 manuals and an online forum!
https://www.owners-guide.com/online-c... for online consults.
SUBSCRIBE at http://www.youtube.com/user/johnbchiro

CALL TOLL FREE 1-855-712-0012 to get bonus materials not on YouTube or text your first name and email plus 89869 to 1-817-591-2905.

    Category
        Education
    License
        Standard YouTube License

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on June 23, 2017, 06:04:01 AM
Doctor Anthony Phan is truly a Hero:

Dr. Anthony Phan on Vaccines
 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3eQMI3cDKM)
Hopefully more Physicians will Wake Up and take
appropriate action to defeat the evils of Modern
Medicine.
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: e2matrix on June 23, 2017, 05:24:38 PM
Exposing the Truth about Vaccines
Dr. John Bergman
Dr. John Bergman
243,973
54,504 views
Published on Sep 19, 2016

If you don't at least doubt the safety or effectiveness of vaccines you definitely will after this video. Dr. Bergman uncovers the truth about several vaccines and explains why they are not safe or effective.

At http://bergmanchiropractic.com (http://bergmanchiropractic.com) and http://Owners-Guide.com (http://Owners-Guide.com) we strive to educate people on natural solutions to health.
http://www.theArthritisReversalSystem (http://www.theArthritisReversalSystem)... is my online video course with 21 videos, 3 manuals and an online forum!
https://www.owners-guide.com/online-c (https://www.owners-guide.com/online-c)... for online consults.
SUBSCRIBE at http://www.youtube.com/user/johnbchiro (http://www.youtube.com/user/johnbchiro)

CALL TOLL FREE 1-855-712-0012 to get bonus materials not on YouTube or text your first name and email plus 89869 to 1-817-591-2905.

    Category
        Education
    License
        Standard YouTube License


Interesting that most of the links above are no longer available.  That's only a few weeks ago these were posted and it seems only one link still works. 
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: Magluvin on June 23, 2017, 05:58:47 PM
http://www.naturalnews.com/2017-06-22-would-you-accept-4499-33-to-be-deliberately-infected-with-whooping-cough.html


mags
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on September 27, 2017, 02:16:53 AM
Proof that Flu Shots are the greatest medical
fraud ever. (http://wakingtimesmedia.com/proof-flu-shots-greatest-medical-fraud-history-world/)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 02, 2017, 08:01:50 PM
New Study:  Aluminum in vaccines may cause Autism. (https://www.activistpost.com/2017/12/aluminum-in-vaccines-may-cause-autism-according-to-experts.html)
Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on December 09, 2017, 05:53:34 AM




Scientific Proof:  Flu vaccine found to be completely
ineffective becuse of how it is made (https://newstarget.com/2017-11-02-scientific-proof-flu-vaccine-found-to-be-completely-ineffective-because-of-how-it-is-made-new-study-finds.html)


Quote from: article
A groundbreaking new study (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/10/171030134625.htm) published by researchers from The Scripps Research
Institute (TSRI) in Florida has determined that the way influenza vaccines have
been made practically since their inception is fundamentally flawed, and that
the end result renders flu jabs largely ineffective.

It has to do with the way that vaccine developers use chicken eggs as incubators
for growing a given season’s influenza virus, a practice that in and of itself is
controversial due to the fact that using chicken embryos in vaccines has been (https://therefusers.com/vaccines-cause-allergies-dr-dave-mihalovic/)
linked to causing egg allergies (https://therefusers.com/vaccines-cause-allergies-dr-dave-mihalovic/).


Scientific Study solves the riddle of why flu shots
don't work (https://newstarget.com/2017-11-01-vaccine-industry-in-panic-as-scientific-study-solves-riddle-why-flu-shots-dont-work-immunization.html)


Quote from: article

The flu shot is a quack science medical hoax. While some vaccines do confer
immunization effectiveness, the flu shot isn’t one of them. Recent studies,
for example, have proven that flu shots sharply weaken immunity in (https://www.naturalnews.com/2017-08-03-groundbreaking-study-on-flu-shots-and-pregnant-women-proves-that-flu-shots-weaken-immunity-in-subsequent-years.html)
 subsequent years following immunization (https://www.naturalnews.com/2017-08-03-groundbreaking-study-on-flu-shots-and-pregnant-women-proves-that-flu-shots-weaken-immunity-in-subsequent-years.html). In some years, the flu shot viral (https://www.naturalnews.com/047890_flu_vaccines_CDC_apology_medical_fraud.html)
 strains are completely wrong (https://www.naturalnews.com/047890_flu_vaccines_CDC_apology_medical_fraud.html), offering no immunity at all to influenza strains
circulating in the world. Even when flu shots are the “right” strain, flu vaccine
insert sheets readily admit the shots have not been subjected to double (https://www.naturalnews.com/048422_flu_shot_scientific_fraud_controlled_trials.html)
 blind placebo controlled studies (https://www.naturalnews.com/048422_flu_shot_scientific_fraud_controlled_trials.html), and there is no legitimate scientific evidence
whatsoever that supports the claim that each year’s flu vaccine confers
meaningful immunity. (See photo of the Flulaval vaccine insert sheet, below.)

Title: Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
Post by: SeaMonkey on March 12, 2018, 05:43:10 PM
Studies show unvaccinated children healthier than
vaccinated children.
 (http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/studies-outside-the-u-s-show-unvaccinated-children-healthier-than-vaccinated-children/)