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Author Topic: Vaccinations; recent developments  (Read 194163 times)

Offline SeaMonkey

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Vaccinations; recent developments
« on: December 01, 2014, 08:12:40 PM »
Vaccinations are, unfortunately, not as effective as they've
been claimed.


It is necessary to verify the efficacy of any vaccination before
permitting ourselves and family to be victimized.  Some
vaccinations can be deadly.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Vaccinations; recent developments
« on: December 01, 2014, 08:12:40 PM »

Offline SeaMonkey

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Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2014, 08:26:28 AM »
The Vaccine Illusion by Dr. Tetyana Obukhanych,
an immunologist.

Some professionals are well aware of the dangers.


Offline ramset

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Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2014, 05:36:38 PM »
Sea Monkey
its good to be informed ,lest one become DuPeD...


and as we know there is controversy and Crime surrounding recent queries into
Vaccines and Autism....


it always pays to pay attention,,
the investment can yield life changing returns.


thanks for starting this topic ,it may not be what we ultimately do here.
but it effects us all.


Chet



Offline SeaMonkey

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Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2014, 10:02:19 PM »
Quote from: ramset
Sea Monkey
its good to be informed ,lest one become DuPeD...

Correct.  And correct. ;)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2014, 10:02:19 PM »
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Offline sarkeizen

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Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2014, 03:14:15 AM »
Vaccinations are, unfortunately, not as effective as they've been claimed.
Sadly that article was written by someone who is terribly stupid.

It's not actually a study, so much as a case report.  There were seven cases of complicated mumps in the south of France.    This is not a "epidemic" in the normal sense of the term as there are few cases occurring over a year. If you had read the study - which you didn't and neither did the writer of the article.  You would know that they actually don't know what the cause here is.  They speculate that this could be a new strain or it could simply be the result of lower coverage. 
Quote
It is necessary to verify the efficacy of any vaccination
We do this, it's part of the serology.  I always find it interesting that people who want to talk about the lack of effectiveness of vaccines don't seem to understand what they are postulating.   See unlike every stupid thing you might replace vaccines with - vaccine effectiveness is (during development) determined by measuring seroconversion.  That is, the production of antibodies based on the presence of antigens.   If you want to doubt that seroconversion is strongly correlated with disease resistance then you also have to explain why seroconversion happens.  Do you think it's some accidental side effect?

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2014, 04:43:03 PM »
Deep within that maze of crazy the aforementioned article actually does attempt to imply that antibodies are uncorrelated (or unnecessary) for disease resistance.  However it fails to cite a study to support this assertion and it doesn't really seem to explain what antibodies are for or why they would correlate with disease resistance in other cases...and then it flops back into the mumps case report.

How does anyone read this stuff and not think the writer is crazy?  I mean it seems to imply that antibodies are not a part (or a significant part) of the immune system and then just moves on from this Nobel Prize material without justification.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2014, 04:43:03 PM »
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Offline SeaMonkey

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Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2014, 09:01:06 PM »
Quote from: sarkeizen
...
How does anyone read this stuff and not think the writer is crazy?
...

Your statement above is a very persuasive clue to
your state of mind;  a well indoctrinated state of
mind.  Cognitive Dissonance rages unabated in
today's world of Mind Control and Brainwashing. :o

Ah well, in due time even that stubborn rejection
of evidence which points to serious problems with
vaccinations will give way to Truth.  Providing of
course that the mind is still functional... 8)

Why flu shots are the greatest medical fraud in history.

 

Offline MarkE

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Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2014, 10:22:33 PM »
Your statement above is a very persuasive clue to
your state of mind;  a well indoctrinated state of
mind.  Cognitive Dissonance rages unabated in
today's world of Mind Control and Brainwashing. :o

Ah well, in due time even that stubborn rejection
of evidence which points to serious problems with
vaccinations will give way to Truth.  Providing of
course that the mind is still functional... 8)

Why flu shots are the greatest medical fraud in history.
I note that you very often use NaturalNews as your reference.  NN has a number of problems, one of which is playing very fast and loose with the facts.  The article that you linked is an example.  Adams fails to distinguish between multidose and single dose flu vaccine.  He fails to distinguish between metallic mercury and mercury compounds and between different mercury compounds.  Single dose flu vaccine does not contain mercury.  Multidose containers of flu vaccine contain small amounts of thimerosal a methyl mercury compound.  About a third of flu vaccine by dose is distributed in multi-dose form and so contains thimerosal.  So first, one can get flu vaccine with no thimerosal at all:  Get a single dose vaccination.  Second, thimerosal is not metallic mercury.  It is a compound that the body readily passes.

Why do such things matter?  Well, let's take another chemical that in its pure form has a very high toxicity:  Chlorine.  Exposure to high concentrations of chlorine gas has a very high fatality rate.  The gas burns the linings of among other things the lungs. It was used to horrible effect in WW1.  However, certain chlorine compounds such as potassium chloride and sodium chloride are quite benign and are ingested by the entire population in large amounts.  The mercury compound found in vaccines is thimerosal.  Adams does not address thimerosal toxicity.  He implies that thimerosal is nasty poison because a constituent material is mercury.  He is at best badly misinformed and at worst intentionally spreading misinformation that encourages people to make bad personal health decisions.

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2014, 10:30:22 PM »
Your statement above is a very persuasive clue to
your state of mind;  a well indoctrinated state of
mind.  Cognitive Dissonance rages unabated in
today's world of Mind Control and Brainwashing. :o
I wonder which of us indoctrinated.  Well, I gave an argument based on demonstrable science and you just made sweeping generalizations.  Isn't that interesting?
Quote
Ah well, in due time even that stubborn rejection
of evidence which points to serious problems with
vaccinations will give way to Truth.  Providing of
course that the mind is still functional... 8)
Well I was able to produce a pretty reasonable argument as to why the writer of the article you regurgitated a) Didn't know what they were talking about and b) had not read the study they were quoting.  That's a pretty good indication of a functional mind.  Now if you only could produce an actual argument we might know that your mind is functional.  :)
Quote
Why flu shots are the greatest medical fraud in history.
Well this article is a pretty good example of the opposite of thinking. Like a lot of things on Natural News it makes a lot of broad claims but nothing really approaching a cogent argument.  How are vaccines "the greatest medical fraud in history"?  Because some contain, as advertised thiomersal?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2014, 10:30:22 PM »
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Offline SeaMonkey

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Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2014, 12:10:53 AM »
sarkeizen,

Your 'demonstrable science' may be seriously
contaminated.

Not all within the Medical Community would
agree with you.

Offline SeaMonkey

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Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2014, 12:28:41 AM »
Quote from: MarkE
...
Adams does not address thimerosal toxicity.  He implies that thimerosal is nasty poison because a constituent material is mercury.  He is at best badly misinformed and at worst intentionally spreading misinformation that encourages people to make bad personal health decisions.

Americans are famous for their 'bad personal health
decisions.'  The American Diet chief among them.

Not content with hazarding the American People, we
export our Junk Food world wide.  All for the Love of
Money.

Some of the elements in their pure form are terribly
toxic.  Fortunately, in the cases you cited, those compounds
are when reasonably ingested beneficial to health.

Compounds of Mercury are a different animal,
however.


Offline SeaMonkey

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Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2014, 12:53:53 AM »
While this article has nothing directly to do with
vaccinations it does address toxicity and the
Food and Drug Administration.

The United States bureaucracy gets crazier by
the day... ::)

Offline MarkE

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Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2014, 03:01:18 AM »
So the issue was whether Adams and his NN report was making a fair representation of the facts or not, with his provocatively titled article:  "Why flu shots are the greatest medical fraud in history" and we get:
Americans are famous for their 'bad personal health
decisions.'  The American Diet chief among them.

Not content with hazarding the American People, we
export our Junk Food world wide.  All for the Love of
Money.
I say you lost the thread there.
Quote

Some of the elements in their pure form are terribly
toxic.  Fortunately, in the cases you cited, those compounds
are when reasonably ingested beneficial to health.
So here you agree that compounds of elements can have completely different chemical and therefore biological effects than the elements alone.  Ergo Adams' failure to distinguish between elemental mercury and compounds of mercury undermines his claims.  Ergo Adams' failure to specifically address the compound of mercury used in about 1/3 of vaccine doses undermines his claims.  But then you launch off with this:
Quote

Compounds of Mercury are a different animal,
however.
Where is your evidence that all compounds of mercury in any amount cause physical harm?  This is above and beyond the fact unaddressed by Adams' that over two thirds of flu vaccination doses do not contain any mercury compounds at all.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline SeaMonkey

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Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2014, 05:11:02 AM »
Quote from: MarkE
So here you agree that compounds of elements can have completely different chemical and therefore biological effects than the elements alone.  Ergo Adams' failure to distinguish between elemental mercury and compounds of mercury undermines his claims.

Where is your evidence that all compounds of mercury in any amount cause physical harm?

This is an easy research project.  Nay, it is not
my evidence;  rather it is acknowledged scientific
truth regarding the toxicity of compounds of Mercury. ::)

Even in High School Chemistry classes in the late
50s it was taught that elemental Mercury, the
metal, was relatively non-toxic and safe to deal
with at ordinary temperatures.  It becomes unsafe at
elevated temperatures where its vapor pressure becomes
substantial.  On the other hand, there are virtually no
compounds of Mercury which are non-toxic or safe to
ingest.  Mercury accumulates within the body in various
compound forms and gradually causes life hazarding
conditions to develop.  Lead Poisoning occurs in a similar
fashion. :o

Check it out.  Five minutes of research should verify the
nature of the problem with Mercury. :(

It would probably be very wise to steer clear of any government
propaganda which attempts to establish the opposite. ::)

Perhaps the World's worst case of Mercury Poisonings
occurred in Japan.


Wikipedia article.

 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Vaccinations; recent developments
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2014, 05:11:02 AM »

 

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