Hi everyone,

I started a new topic with a video demo to discuss the delay effect, Lenz and so on.
This should help free this topic for those who wish to stay with the original topic.

Link to new topic: http://overunity.com/15289/delayed-lenz-or-not-post-your-explaination/msg427925/#msg427925

Luc

Just lit an incandescent globe, dimly and no slow down lenz drag nor additional current consumption.

You got Lenz drag but I'm assuming you can't hear it or see it with the sensitivity of your meters.   I am going to assume that your setup draws several watts of power from your power supply but only outputs a fraction of that into the incandescent globe.  It doesn't matter, the Lenz drag s still there.

The big "secret" (in other words, few people realize or understand what I am about to say) is that it doesn't matter.   When you talk about coils the commonly accepted term to use is the number of turns, not the length of the wire.

So to answer your question with the "secret," it does not matter if your pick-up coils are 10 turns, 25 turns, or 100 turns.  If they all have approximately the same geometry, then all three versions have the same potential to output electrical power.   However, for the same output power, a coil will fewer turns will require a low value of load resistor vs. a coil with a larger number of turns which will require a higher value of load resistor.  If both coils are outputting the same amount of power, then the Lenz drag will be the same.

This looks very much like syairchairun device?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RauMRITF-uk&t=1m2s

I'd say so Luc.  Bet the guts have been modified exactly the same as the Syair RamaGen being discussed here.

That's okay, while the squabble is going on, think I'll build one to heat my garage with;  all while being told it is a hoax and can't possibly work.   

If prisoners in Indonesia can do it, I should be able to also.

BTW, dragon over at Energetic Forum is having some success with his replication.
http://www.energeticforum.com/268465-post178.html

Part 1 of 2:

I am well aware that the slow speed of the collapsing magnetic field has nothing to do with the propagation speed of the magnetic field. My point there was(think) speed up under load . Now what would happen to the rotor of a pulse motor if the magnetic field from the inductor was to remain longer ?-->yes,thats right,more push or pull on the rotors magnets for a longer period of time-->speed up under load

Now-the last quote of yours above.
This was a question i was asking TJ(and anyone else into pulsed inductor systems),it wasnt a question i was asking for my self. I am well aware that the magnetic field remains the same when the field is collapsing around the inductor when the inductors power supply is abruptly interupted. So no-no time travel there MH.

I must ask MH,do you believe that the delay of the lenz force is from extensive reserch you your self have done,or is it just because of what others tell you,or you have read in book's?. If the lenz force is created from current flowing through a generator coil(we are using a PM generator here as an example),and we can offset that current to the voltage across that generator coil,why then is the lenz force also not offset?.If the current is offset to the voltage,then so to is the lenz force offset to the voltage.

I would be more than happy to throw together a simple generator and show you lenz delay.First we could look at the power draw of the prime mover when loading the generator coil itself,and then we could look at the power draw of the prime mover with the lenz delay circuit in place.

Tinman, there is some ranting in this posting.   It's specifically directed at you, it's simply a generic rant about the usual issues around being a newbie playing with electronics.

I assume that you read the full new thread about the alleged "delayed Lenz effect" set up by Gotoluc.

There is no such thing as "speed up under load."  That has been covered many times already.

Now what would happen to the rotor of a pulse motor if the magnetic field from the inductor was to remain longer ?-->yes,thats right,more push or pull on the rotors magnets for a longer period of time-->speed up under load

If you have an inductor in place of the load resistor, the current waveform will change but big deal.  It will not cause "speed up under load."  You are just talking now with wishful thinking.  If you want to be serious you would have to do a setup and with your scope and create a timing diagram for what is happening including indicating when there is push or pull on the rotor on the timing diagram.  That is what electronics is all about - looking at timing diagrams and analysing and understanding them.  Without doing that your comments are all "just talk."

This was a question i was asking TJ(and anyone else into pulsed inductor systems),it wasnt a question i was asking for my self. I am well aware that the magnetic field remains the same when the field is collapsing around the inductor when the inductors power supply is abruptly interupted. So no-no time travel there MH.

Then why didn't you just state it?  I don't believe in "alternative" political correctness just like I don't believe in "standard" political correctness.  When it comes to electronics the truth is there right in front of your nose.

I must ask MH,do you believe that the delay of the lenz force is from extensive reserch you your self have done,or is it just because of what others tell you,or you have read in book's?. If the lenz force is created from current flowing through a generator coil(we are using a PM generator here as an example),and we can offset that current to the voltage across that generator coil,why then is the lenz force also not offset?.If the current is offset to the voltage,then so to is the lenz force offset to the voltage.

I am just going to repeat again that the real answer for someone that needs to investigate this for themselves is to construct a timing diagram and then analyse and understand it.   Two hours of work on the bench will be worth more than two years and thousands of incorrect posts and hundreds of incorrect replications of the "delayed Lenz effect."

Continued in part 2...

Delay in coil current is Lenz delay because the coil current is Lenz.

To delay the coil current offers no advantage, if delayed over 90 degrees the current is simply never produced and no work can be gained.
The entire process of phase shift or resonance to gain energy is simply not true and is fully understood.

There may be a way to remove most of the undesired lenz effect but lenz in the coil is required and is a result of work being done by current flow.
It's just not necessary for lenz to work against the rotor of a generator.

gotoluc,
I think what is shown in the video is misleading.
When the shorted coil is close it causes additional drag from Lenz.
When the shorted coil is moved away just right, then the Lenz causes a neutral field in the iron bar and consumes the least energy.
When the shorted coil is moved further out the iron bar consumes more energy because of induction heating and hysteresis in the iron bar.
 
Lenz is simply the field produced by the current in the coil. The same as if you connected a battery to a coil.
Battery current to coil = magnetic field,       magnetic field to coil = current.    It's the same thing!
 
Now for the way around Lenz!
When the magnetic field loops from a permanent magnet contact an iron core of a coil some domains align with the field making the iron a magnet. Now more magnetic loops are attracted and more domains flip making the iron a stronger magnet which attracts even more magnetic loops.
 
Stick with me because I will tell you the only way to defeat Lenz.
 
Now, If the iron was wrapped with a copper coil and shorted as a load, then the loops that pass through the coil and enter the iron also induce a current in the coil.
The iron only serves to help keep the loops inside the coil because if they move outside the coil then for every loop that leaves you need another moving inside just to stay even.
The current produced is in the direction to produce a magnetic field opposite the incoming magnetic loop direction so it prevents more loops from entering the iron. This is Lenz!
To make more current you need to force the loops into the coil and this requires more work.
 
To get around the Lenz problem,  you put the magnet and the core inside the coil and use iron to pull the loops outside the coil.
With this reverse Lenz effect as the iron attracts the loops outside the coil they must pass through the coil inducing a current that instead attempts to retain the magnetic loops inside the coil. Whatever is held inside the coil causes less attraction to the rotor that's trying to pull the loops out.
 
If this was designed well, you should be able to pull as many loops out through the coil as you could push into a coil in a typical generator. The difference would be that additional load would not need additional work from the Lenz effect because you have reversed the direction of Lenz by inverting the magnetic field in the coil to the rotor direction.
 
 

 
 

 

Luc:

I looked at the JLN clip and I am not impressed.  You have probably heard that water is an excellent analogy for electricity.  The water pressure is the voltage.  The water flow is the current.  A water resistor is just a long thin hose, there is friction between the moving water and the walls of the hose.  A water capacitor is just a big tank of water.  A water coil is just a big coil of hose.

Please see the attached graphic of a simple water wheel.  That's a perfect analogy to a simple pulse motor.  The water flows out, hits the fins of the wheel, the wheel spins at a certain RPM and all the water ends up on the ground.  Just like a pulse motor, there is no useful output from the water wheel.  Both the pulse motor and the water wheel only have one output, heat.

Now, if you make slight adjustments to the water valve the speed of the wheel will change.  If you make slight changes to the angles of the fins on the water wheel the speed of the wheel will change.

Compare that to JLN's experiment.  He makes some adjustments to his setup, and the current consumption will undergo a slight change, or the RPM of the rotor will undergo a slight change.

In both cases, the changes will make slight changes to the power draw, it might go up a bit, it might go down a bit.  Another way to state that is that the impedance of the water wheel will change slightly, and that will affect the power draw.  Likewise, the impedance of the pulse motor will change slightly, and that will affect the power draw.

So what's so remarkable about that?  You know when people make a circuit to power a CFL or a LED lamp, sometimes they put a big current limiting resistor at the battery positive terminal.  If you change the value of that current limiting resistor slightly, then the brightness of your light will change slightly.  Would you say that changing the value of the current limiting resistor is an "advantage?"  Well that essentially is all that you are seeing in that clip.  He is changing the electrical impedance of the pulse motor.  Sometimes the impedance goes up, sometimes it goes down.  BFD.

In this context the shorting or unshorting of the coil is essentially irrelevant.  It just changes the motor impedance and slightly affects how much waste heat is produced by the motor.

That's what's really happening in that clip.  It's like turning the volume up or down on your stereo and claiming an "advantage."

Quoting JLN:

Harnessing the Delayed Lenz Effect with an experimental Test Bench

He is not harnessing anything.  He is just changing the impedance of the motor.

Here an interesting experiment about the Delayed Lenz Effect which shows that the normal Lenz effect can be reversed with a special setup.

That's a retarded statement.  Nothing is being reversed, he is just making impedance changes to the setup.

I have said several times before that I am not impressed with JLN, and that clip only serves to reinforce my impression of him.  He is looking at that setup and does not seem to be aware that it has no significance.

MileHigh