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Author Topic: Gyroscopic Inertia Generator  (Read 84709 times)

Offline Scorch

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Re: Gyroscopic Inertia Generator
« Reply #75 on: November 18, 2014, 11:30:09 PM »
11/18/14

Hey MileHigh.  :)

Is it possible that John Bedini does in fact try to teach us and he actually does 'let on' for those with open minds, eyes to see, and ears to hear?
Is it possible that educational materials such as the "energy from the vacuum" video series and the three new reference books (and video) from JB actually do contain very useful information well worth the cost of a few reference books or DVDs?
Is it possible that those who negatively dismiss such reference materials as being "to expensive" or "they are just selling books" or "these systems will never work" may not EVER 'get it'?

The fact is-
If one doesn't bother to actually obtain and study the reference material and/or conduct a peer review experiment then; one has absolutely ZERO authority regarding said reference material he didn't read or study or experiment he didn't replicate.

Case in point-
www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEtiNum9MpM

}:>



Scorch:

No I am not making the same claims about John Bedini.  I suspect he knows his stuff but he doesn't let on.

MileHigh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Gyroscopic Inertia Generator
« Reply #75 on: November 18, 2014, 11:30:09 PM »

Offline Scorch

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Re: Gyroscopic Inertia Generator
« Reply #76 on: November 18, 2014, 11:41:41 PM »
11/18/14

Hey TenselKoala   :)

Thank you very much for the references.
And, no, I did not spend to much.

Although this is a highly subjective term...
"To much" for one may only be a mere pittance for another.

I think it was around $20 which, in my reality, is a certainly a fair price to pay for a good tool for which I did not have to spend my time and energy obtaining parts and building and mounting my own DIY version.

Versus something like this-
www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Pole-Detector-Identifier-Tester-for-Magnets/dp/B0019F90JW/

It has saved me a lot of time and even helped me find a misaligned magnet on one of my SSG projects so; well worth the investment in my reality.  ;D

Kindest regards;

}:>


Yes, the electronic pole detector is a neat item. I hope you didn't spend too much for yours! Here's a very simple circuit using the sensor chip and a couple LEDs from a worn-out computer case fan, and one 10 cent resistor:

(This circuit can also be used, obviously, for various other purposes like switching a bipolar pulse motor, etc. )

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Gyroscopic Inertia Generator
« Reply #77 on: November 19, 2014, 12:53:36 AM »
Scorch:

Quote
Is it possible that John Bedini does in fact try to teach us and he actually does 'let on' for those with open minds, eyes to see, and ears to hear?

No, unfortunately he does not teach.  What he does is mislead with the goal of creating an "aura" around a simple pulse motor in order to sell battery chargers, books, and DVDs.  He does not teach that an inductor is a current-based passive energy storage device which is functionally equivalent to a mechanical flywheel.  He does not attempt to explain "v = L di/dt" and "i = 1/L integral v dt" in layman's terms.  The answer to how a Bedini motor works is right there in those two equations.  You know how when you stop a flywheel very quickly and you feel a jolt of force?  That jolt of force is identical to the voltage spike when an inductor discharges across a high resistance.  This is the truth, it's the heart of a Bedini motor, and John Bedini will never tell you this in a million years.  He will not explain the actual mechanism for the inductor charging and discharging and any person that takes an Electronics 101 course will learn all about this.  He never discusses the timing analysis for the Bedini motor, which is a pulse circuit.  Understanding how a pulse circuit works is all about understanding the timing analysis.  That is what you really have to open your mind to, and go past the BS smokescreen that surrounds the whole "Bedini show."

Quote
Is it possible that educational materials such as the "energy from the vacuum" video series and the three new reference books (and video) from JB actually do contain very useful information well worth the cost of a few reference books or DVDs?

I think I saw some of that material on YouTube ages ago and I was not impressed.  I can't say anything about the books but I can make some inferences.  The books probably contain 10% good technical information that is at a beginners level, and a whole bunch of nonsensical fluff about "radiant energy" and such.  Will the books discuss how to make proper power-in and power-out measurements using some low-pass filtering techniques and other strategies?  I am assuming that the answer is no.

Quote
Is it possible that those who negatively dismiss such reference materials as being "to expensive" or "they are just selling books" or "these systems will never work" may not EVER 'get it'?

I 'get it' perfectly, it's as clear as a bell.  The question is do the Yahoo Bedini replicators get it?  Last time I looked about two years ago they were lost Bedini sheep.  What about you?   Will you get it, or will you just go through the motions like most of the other Bedini followers and buy into the BS?  I can challenge you:  Make proper power-in and power-out measurements with your motor.  You never see that done by the Bedini inner circle, or by the typical Bedini experimenter, and certainly not by the Quanta Magnetics guy.  Anybody can build a pulse motor and make it charge a battery.  The challenge is to actually do proper measurements and do a proper analysis.

Quote
The fact is-
If one doesn't bother to actually obtain and study the reference material and/or conduct a peer review experiment then; one has absolutely ZERO authority regarding said reference material he didn't read or study or experiment he didn't replicate.

I agree but not in the way you are thinking.  You have to study and understand electronics, then do some experiments, and make proper measurements and do a proper analysis.  You have ZERO authority if instead of doing things properly, you instead gobble up pseudoscience nonsense from the wrong people.  You have to use your knowledge to have a properly functioning BS detector.  If you don't have that knowledge, then undertake to learn.

MileHigh

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Gyroscopic Inertia Generator
« Reply #78 on: November 19, 2014, 01:12:09 AM »
Scorch:

Quote
Case in point-
www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEtiNum9MpM

I agree 100% that the Mythbusters guys totally screwed up the Bedini motor analysis because they did not really build a Bedini motor.

However, the other clip is equally bad.  I watched it years ago but I remember it.  The mechanic guy builds his Bedini motor, but he never makes a single measurement.  He has no clue if the charging efficiency of his build is 2%, 5% or 20%.  He just did a "paint by numbers" build and made a rotor spin and directed the coil discharge to a charging battery.  There has got to be more to it than that if you are trying to get something out of the experience.

Here is a little quote from Aaron:

Quote
Hector, yes, normally you cannot keep swapping batteries because they will go down. In my tests with my own machine with Harbor Freight 35ah deep cycles... On the first pass, I can recover about 90-95%... then swapping on second pass can get about 90%, 3rd pass about 85% or so then after that it goes down quicker since we're lower in the capacity of the battery by then.

With the indefinite battery swapping that John did, there were multiple batteries on the back and they were charged with high capacitance cap dumps that were a few volts above the battery every 1-2 seconds or so. That was without using any of the mechanical.

Do you see the sly old fox in the hen house looking to gobble up some chickens?   At least he admits that you can't swap batteries indefinitely.  But there is no way in hell that you can recover 90%-95%, that's a lie.  Don't believe me?  Go ahead and do some of your own tests.  Measure how much power goes into the charging battery and then develop some kind of regimen for measuring the actual energy that goes into the charging battery.  Don't even think about comparing battery voltages because that's 100% crap.  The poor Yahoo Bedini sheep base all of their measurements on battery voltages.

But the big joke about Aaron's posting is his claim that John Bedini has a free energy Bedini motor using capacitive discharges to charge the batteries.  That is absolute crap, 100% certain.  Only the Bedini sheep will gobble that up and believe it.  You can literally get your whole mind corrupted by the pseudoscience nonsense that is preached to the Bedini believers.   Choose reality instead:  Do proper setups, understand what the circuit is doing, make proper measurements, do a proper analysis and arrive at a conclusion.

Also note that there is ZERO mechanical output from a standard Bedini motor configuration.  Aaron has the Bedini sheep believing that there is an "untapped" or "unmeasured" mechanical output from a standard Bedini motor configuration and he is either stupid and/or ignorant or he is lying.  Aaron cannot understand the energy dynamics of a bouncing ball, so it would not be surprising if he could not understand what it really means when you talk about the mechanical output from a motor.

MileHigh

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Gyroscopic Inertia Generator
« Reply #79 on: November 19, 2014, 01:40:19 AM »
Scorch:

Final thought for you.

Quote
Is it possible that John Bedini does in fact try to teach us and he actually does 'let on' for those with open minds, eyes to see, and ears to hear?

Your biggest mistake would be to believe that I don't have an "open mind" or that "I can't see the special and unique things that are going on with a Bedini motor."

I am giving you the straight goods, the real deal.  When it comes to this subject matter, I can see everything, I assure you.   When corrupted experimenters say, "We are dealing with 'cold electricity' and your normal understanding of regular electricity doesn't count" it's laughable.  Same thing for the business about "the high rate of change of voltage in the 'radiant energy spike' is tapping into the vacuum and getting extra energy" is also laughable.  Don't let yourself get corrupted by this nonsense.  If you are going to 'study and learn from Bedini' then if you were smart you would also being learning about conventional electronics at the same time, the real thing.

I have watched clips of Bedini at conferences and have heard him go into his shtick and talk trash and sermonize to his gullible followers.  I almost wanted to die listening to the nonsense coming out of his mouth.  If you were smart, you would not fall into that trap.  Learning about real electronics at the same same time will give you the BS detector that you need.

MileHigh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Gyroscopic Inertia Generator
« Reply #79 on: November 19, 2014, 01:40:19 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Gyroscopic Inertia Generator
« Reply #80 on: November 19, 2014, 01:53:11 AM »
Yep. We have never seen a rotor power dissipation measurement from those folks and we probably never will. Even though it is relatively simple to do. One can calculate the rotational moment of inertia of the rotor with some simple math and reasonable assumptions (the rim at radius R masses such and such, the magnets at radius Rm mass such and so, etc etc until we finally arrive at the mass distribution of the entire rotor, then we can calculate the rotational MoI), and then we will know the energy stored in "flywheel effect" at any given angular velocity of the wheel. By doing unpowered timed rundowns from known RPM, we can then know the _average_ power dissipation of the rotor (the total stored energy is disspated in the total rundown time, so we can know the average dissipation in Watts over the test interval), and if we can actually graph the angular velocity vs time accurately second-by-second, say by using a chart recorder or the recorder function of a good DSO, we can even compute the _instantaneous_ power dissipation at any RPM (it is proportional to the slope of the rundown graph at any instant.) So when the rotor is powered and turning at a constant RPM, we can know this: since the RPM is constant, the input electrical power to the rotor is equal to the rotor's mechanical power dissipation at that RPM. This allows us to know, even without making any electrical measurements, just how much power is being supplied to the rotor at any given RPM within the range of our rundown testing.

Does Bedini teach this in any of his published work?

Offline Scorch

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Re: Gyroscopic Inertia Generator
« Reply #81 on: November 19, 2014, 01:58:58 AM »
11/18/14

If a disinformation agent was attempting to mislead or redirect; how would those writings or rants appear in this context?

}:>

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Gyroscopic Inertia Generator
« Reply #81 on: November 19, 2014, 01:58:58 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Gyroscopic Inertia Generator
« Reply #82 on: November 19, 2014, 02:04:15 AM »
11/18/14

If a disinformation agent was attempting to mislead us; how would his writings or rants appear in this context?

}:>

You have got to be kidding?  You are calling me a "disinformation agent?"

Tell me what you think I am trying to hide or mislead you from.   What secrets am I trying to prevent you from learning or discovering?

Offline Scorch

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Re: Gyroscopic Inertia Generator
« Reply #83 on: November 19, 2014, 02:20:26 AM »
11/18/14

Is it a firm statement concerning a specific party and subject to a burden of proof or merely a question relevant to this topic and context?

In consideration that he who takes a position and/or makes a claim does suffer the burden of proof; why would I ever perform such a burdensome act?!?  8)

Knowledge is gained by asking questions and hands on experience.

Please forgive the appearance of my AsKing.

}:>

You have got to be kidding?  You are calling me a "disinformation agent?"

Tell me what you think I am trying to hide or mislead you from.   What secrets am I trying to prevent you from learning or discovering?

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Gyroscopic Inertia Generator
« Reply #84 on: November 19, 2014, 02:26:32 AM »
Scorch:

Please don't go down the pseudo legalese route.  You are accusing me of being a "disinformation agent" and that is offensive to me.  So answer my questions in plain English please.

MileHigh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Gyroscopic Inertia Generator
« Reply #84 on: November 19, 2014, 02:26:32 AM »
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Offline Scorch

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Re: Gyroscopic Inertia Generator
« Reply #85 on: November 19, 2014, 02:54:00 AM »
11/18/14
Hey MileHigh.  :)

The answer to your question-
I see no evidence or record I have accused any party of any thing and I believe no such evidence or record exists.
Are there any objections backed by verifiable facts?

On the other hand-
Is there any evidence that I, or others, have in fact been accused and, if yes, is there any verifiable evidence to support the allegations?
Or are the allegations merely frivolous claims that only serve to mislead, redirect, cause damage or, otherwise, delay this experiment by writing stuff instead of doing stuff?

Interesting term; pseudo. As in: "pseudo-science".
Is this what they called Albert Einstein's theories before they were generally accepted by the scientific community?

Please forgive the appearance of my AsKing these questions in plain English.

}:>

Scorch:

Please don't go down the pseudo legalese route.  You are accusing me of being a "disinformation agent" and that is offensive to me.  So answer my questions in plain English please.

MileHigh

Offline synchro1

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Re: Gyroscopic Inertia Generator
« Reply #86 on: November 19, 2014, 03:56:43 AM »

Quote from Milehigher:

"He does not teach that an inductor is a current-based passive energy storage device which is functionally equivalent to a mechanical flywheel."


The inference is that John Bedini dosen't know that inductors store power.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Gyroscopic Inertia Generator
« Reply #87 on: November 19, 2014, 04:30:51 AM »
It's okay Scorch, you are just playing games but it doesn't really matter.  The challenges and examples I have given you are to try to make you think.  Some of the the statements were strong to emphasize the differences between the stuff you will get from Bedini devotees and people from the real world of electronics.  In the Bedini world, making a serious measurement of the output power of the motor into the charging battery is not even discussed.  That's an example of what is wrong with the Bedini crowd.

I think that you came here with an expectation that everyone would be in agreement with you.  So it may have come as a surprise to you to read some differing opinions.  And also you have gained a lot of insight and you know that if one has the education and skills and experience you can really do some serious analysis if you want to.  Or you can work on educating yourself and pushing yourself to do a more serious analysis.

Your Bedini world has had a well-deserved cage rattling.  If you are looking for disinformation agents, don't look at me, look towards Bedini and his cohorts.  For example, at a Bedini conference a few years ago they projected an animation of a Bedini 10-coiler swapping back and forth between two large battery banks in the basement of a house.  The "extra energy" was supposed to power inverters to power your house.  That animation was a complete and total lie, so think about that.

Offline Madeo

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Re: Gyroscopic Inertia Generator
« Reply #88 on: November 19, 2014, 10:02:16 AM »
During my experiments with Bedini motors and other pulse type projects,  I measured that BEMF spikes are only 50% of the initial energy that was used to energize the coil and that's with a fast diode at 75ns recovery time and a good mechanical switch. Bipolar transistors aren't the ideal switch like a mechanical switching system so more losses occur..   You can measure it yourself easily. Energize the coil and dump it to a capacitor.    Use the formulas for the Inductor (1/2 LI2) and capacitor (1/2 CV2)  to compare them.

If you study the circuitry in the whole system, there's nothing but losses all the way to the secondary battery.  The bedini systems does not have a wire grounded to the earth nor does it have an antenna to collect environmental energy so , basically,  it is a closed system. How can we expect this system to achieve >1.0 COP ???     

You can't and you won't.


 I suspect that even with the rotating mass (rotor), the energy in it won't be enough to break the 1.0 COP barrier.  This is why nobody in the whole world is able to replicate one that achieves OU with this device. At this point and time, it remains as a great way to revive dead batteries and maybe restore them to 100-110% of its original capacity.  If this is what he meant by OU simply because it can make the battery perform better than we first bought them, then I think this should have been emphasized in the first place.

However, there is one setup that I believe has the potential to break that barrier, but I'm too burnt out with this type of technology to try it.  I'm shelving this system for the time being and try something different.


Madeo :)

Offline Scorch

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Re: Gyroscopic Inertia Generator
« Reply #89 on: November 20, 2014, 01:26:48 AM »
Hey Milehigh.  :)

I see no evidence or record I have taken any firm position or made any specific claim which suffers the burden of proof or an expectation for an agreement and I believe no such evidence or record exists.
Have you assumed that a humble question is the same a firm statement, position, claim or expectation?

Please be advised I have little or no expectations because this is an educational EXPERIMENT.
And all I have to offer are a few progress reports and lots of discovery QUESTIONS to reveal truth.

Questions such as "Is there any verifiable *proof of his claim?"
*Proof such as: Replicate the experiment to see if it's successful within the perimeters of the claim.
Or, if one makes the claim "it doesn't work", then one still suffers the burden of proof of his claim such as: conducting the actual experiment multiple times, under a multitude of various conditions, in order to PROVE it doesn't work under ANY condition and must include certified documentation and supporting evidence. Otherwise it's merely a frivolous (unproven) claim.

I do not know what the results of this experiment may be and I conduct this experiment without any specific expectation beyond the expectation that it should actually run when I turn it on.
The rest is absolutely UNKNOWN and I would be an ignorant fool to make any specific claims about that which I have no knowledge such as a device I have not built, operated, or tested yet. . .

Kindest regards;

}:>


I think that you came here with an expectation that everyone would be in agreement with you. 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Gyroscopic Inertia Generator
« Reply #89 on: November 20, 2014, 01:26:48 AM »

 

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