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Author Topic: Overunity electrolysis - 31 times more effective gas production than with DC  (Read 73611 times)

Offline MarkE

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MarkE,

As I told you before, you are NOT very good at this.....you should TRY to find a different occupation....!
More shrill, more ad hom.  It's boring.  It does not add to any scientific discussion.
Quote

Oh, so you are here to teach me about CDI, eh??

If you are familiar with CDI then you would know that contrary to your stated claim that it is limited to the input supply voltage, that it normally includes a boost voltage converter to charge the capacitor.  So were you uninformed, or being deliberately dishonest when you complained incorrectly that CDI is limited to the input supply voltage?
Quote

Perhaps you should have checked out my Water Fueled Generator Project (WFGP) before you shoot your big mouth off!

Most people on this Forum had enough of your ravings.

I have worked with "water fuel" for 20 years.
Perhaps you want to teach me about electrolysis, too??
How many electrolysers have you made?
If you are an expert at electrolysis then you should be able to deliver on your claims.
Quote
Unlike you, I have NO problem running engines on water.
But YOU have a problem explaining THAT away!

I rest my case.

Have a nice day.

Cheers,
Les Banki
So is that a big no go on producing the water powered cars?

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Offline ARMCORTEX

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http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?t=86492


I give my hydrogen circuits, perhaps it may be of some use.


Offline ltseung888

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I actually met and worked with the late Yull Brown in the 1980s.  One of the most interesting properties of the Browns Gas is IMPLOSION.[/font]
 
 
 
When I first got involved, I was worried about explosion as I knew that Hydrogen and Oxygen were used as fuel in rockets.  The hydrogen airships could explode.[/font]
 
 
 
Mr. Brown convinced me that his Browns Gas was harmless if handled properly.  One of the properties not well understood is implosion.  When a volume of Browns Gas is ignited, a partial vacuum will be created.  Dennis Lee used this feature to demonstrate the lifting of a weight in his Energy Conference.  This actually is a clear case demonstrating that Energy comes from outside.[/font]
 
 
 
The significance did not hit me until now – when the Indian Scientists and others successfully produced much more hydrogen via pulsing.
 
 
 
The attached slide comparing electrolysis and pulsing is significant.  Most people assume that the gas structures from electrolysis and from Pulsing or Browns Gas are identical.  That is a false assumption.[/font]
 
 
 
Please review and comment on the Slide (comment 8) .  Browns Gas does have the property of implosion.  This implies energy can be brought-in from the environment.  Water can be used as fuel in a very funny way.  Some energy is used (pulsed in?) to change the water molecules into the Browns Gas structure (or some form different from normal hydrogen and oxygen gas form).  This new structure implodes or gets energy from outside to get back to normal water.[/font]
 
 
 
Divine Revelation?
 
 

Offline MarkE

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Your chart is incomplete.  The implosion is simply a result of energy in the surrounding gas volume acting on the volume reduction that results because at ordinary atmospheric pressure liquid water is much denser than the gaseous H2 and O2 reacted to make it.  You have not taken the energy in the local atmosphere into account.


Offline Bob Smith

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Lawrence,
I'd like to offer a thought for your consideration:
 
Instead of the term implosive, I believe we could also use the term centripetal or counter-spatial.
This centripetal/counter-spatial attribute is a key characteristic of the dielectric field in relation to permanent magnets, according to the emerging work of Ken Wheeler (user theoriaapophasis) on this forum.
 
I'd like to suggest that pulsation (as opposed to electrolysis) produces better gas production because it is tapping the dielectric field (aether), whose nature is counter-spatial (implosive).  The pulsing sets up a kind of imbalance between charge and discharge, which the dielectric rushes in to restore balance from its own vast and much more highly energetic universal reservoir - again, in a way that is counter-spatial/implosive.  In this same way then, Brown's gas is produced with its implosive properties.
 
If I may be so bold, I believe this same aether/dielectric inrushing dynamic might also may speak to your lead-out theory.
 
Respectfully,
Bob

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Offline MarkE

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Bob with all due respect the implosion is very simple:  1 mole of gas at STP occupies ~22.4 liters.  2 moles of H2, and 1 mole of O2, weighing ~18 grams occupy ~67.2 liters.  When they combust to form 18 grams of liquid water: The water occupies ~18ml.  ~67.18 liters of gas has been removed from the working volume.  The local pressure drops and surrounding gas rushes in to fill the void re-equalizing the pressure.

The 2005 Japanese paper proposed that pulses if they are fast enough would avoid losses due to overcoming a double barrier that forms on the order of microseconds.

Offline ltseung888

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 The basic Physics of the lead-out or bring-in energy machine is in the attached slide.
 
If energy can be brought-in from outside the system and made to do work, there is no violation of the Law of Conservation of Energy.
 
The question then becomes:
1.    Is there such a thing as IMPLOSION as in the case of Browns Gas?
2.    Can the IMPLOSION be made to do work?
3.    The total energy used to do work will be the sum of the energy to start or maintain the implosion PLUS the energy coming in from OUTSIDE as a result of the implosion.  When there is external energy added from OUTSIDE, overunity is guaranteed!
 
We do not need to worry about the exact mechanism of the IMPLOSION at this theoretical stage.  All we need to ask is whether the three above points are TRUE.  From the experimental evidence so far, the three above points are TRUE.  Thus research in this area is very worthwhile.[/font]

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Offline ltseung888

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Bob with all due respect the implosion is very simple:  1 mole of gas at STP occupies ~22.4 liters.  2 moles of H2, and 1 mole of O2, weighing ~18 grams occupy ~67.2 liters.  When they combust to form 18 grams of liquid water: The water occupies ~18ml.  ~67.18 liters of gas has been removed from the working volume.  The local pressure drops and surrounding gas rushes in to fill the void re-equalizing the pressure.


Work can be done by the surrounding gas rushing in to fill the void.  This is EXTERNAL energy supplied by the environment or Lead-Out Energy in my terms.  (Some asked me to use the term Bring-in.  They are the same thing.)
 
In any Lead-Out Energy System, if we can Bring-in FREE environmental energy to do work for us, we burn less fuel or use less electricity.  If part of the "work" can be fed back, we can keep the system going with such environmental energy.  The Lead-Out Energy System is NOT a perpetual motion machine as it will NOT violate the Law of Conservation of Energy.  However, it can continue to run forever with the environmental energy.  In this case, the surrounding gas rushing in to fill the void will get colder.  In Physics, we can treat this as a case of using the kinetic energy of the air molecules.

Instead of Global Warming, we get Global Cooling.
 
Divine Revealation?
 
Hydrogen and oxygen (in the form of atoms, ions, molecules or what-so-ever) collide and turn into water in liquid form immediately.  This happens if the proportions and conditions are right.  If not, (or in the presence of impurities) EXPLOSION will occur.  It is a dangerous experiment...

Offline MarkE

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The basic Physics of the lead-out or bring-in energy machine is in the attached slide.
 
If energy can be brought-in from outside the system and made to do work, there is no violation of the Law of Conservation of Energy.
 
The question then becomes:
1.    Is there such a thing as IMPLOSION as in the case of Browns Gas?
2.    Can the IMPLOSION be made to do work?
3.    The total energy used to do work will be the sum of the energy to start or maintain the implosion PLUS the energy coming in from OUTSIDE as a result of the implosion.  When there is external energy added from OUTSIDE, overunity is guaranteed!
 
We do not need to worry about the exact mechanism of the IMPLOSION at this theoretical stage.  All we need to ask is whether the three above points are TRUE.  From the experimental evidence so far, the three above points are TRUE.  Thus research in this area is very worthwhile.[/font]
Bad accounting does not create exploitable energy.  It just makes for funny written sums.

Offline ARMCORTEX

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The Brother of Stan Meyers ( Stephen ) admitted in an interview that Stan didnt know what was happening.

To this day, not a single witness has popped up to confirm the achievements of Stan, nor did anybody replicate his work.

The company xogen is the only company who was making an actual product, they seem to have dissapeared.

Regarding Stan, It is my belief that he was milking money as he was still in research phase.

His brother said in a radio interview that he further researched this, and that his sytem was more refined, his sytem is described in his patent, wich was rejected.

His system revolved around dual 3 phase generator, with phase cancelling interference antennas, and somekind of ringing network.

There was also a switch of polarity, by relay.

6 sets of tubes, these sets were composed of 3 tubes each.

The frequency was in the 400 hz range, I originally thought that for experimental work, an electronic emulation of 3 phase would be more suitable.

So I built the circuit above. What advantage does this hold over simple pulsing, this answer is deep within the research mind of Stephen Meyers.

Having worked all his life in radar, having invented all his life, Stephen Meyers is certainly one of the most knowledgeable figures on the planet.

If one of you thinks he has the engineering skill to pull it off, circuit is there. I doubt even doctor of EE can do this, difficulty level is AAA, multi-domain.

Edit: it seems like xogen is going strong, they re-appeared now.




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Offline MarkE

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The Brother of Stan Meyers ( Stephen ) admitted in an interview that Stan didnt know what was happening.

To this day, not a single witness has popped up to confirm the achievements of Stan, nor did anybody replicate his work.

The company xogen is the only company who was making an actual product, they seem to have dissapeared.

Regarding Stan, It is my belief that he was milking money as he was still in research phase.

His brother said in a radio interview that he further researched this, and that his sytem was more refined, his sytem is described in his patent, wich was rejected.

His system revolved around dual 3 phase generator, with phase cancelling interference antennas, and somekind of ringing network.

There was also a switch of polarity, by relay.

6 sets of tubes, these sets were composed of 3 tubes each.

The frequency was in the 400 hz range, I originally thought that for experimental work, an electronic emulation of 3 phase would be more suitable.

So I built the circuit above. What advantage does this hold over simple pulsing, this answer is deep within the research mind of Stephen Meyers.

Having worked all his life in radar, having invented all his life, Stephen Meyers is certainly one of the most knowledgeable figures on the planet.

If one of you thinks he has the engineering skill to pull it off, circuit is there. I doubt even doctor of EE can do this, difficulty level is AAA, multi-domain.

Edit: it seems like xogen is going strong, they re-appeared now.
Things we know:
Stan Meyer made extraordinary over unity claims.
Stan Meyer never proved his extraordinary claims.
Stan Meyer was found by an Ohio judge to have perpetrated an "egregious fraud" against his investors.
Stan Meyer's claims have not been successfully reproduced.

That's not a very encouraging set of facts.  If Stan's surviving brother or anyone else can show greater than Faraday efficiency electrolyzing water, they stand to become very rich.  If they break unity, that changes to incredibly rich.  If someone succeeds at managing what the Japanese paper from 2005 was trying to do which is maintain Faraday efficiency in a scalable way they still stand to make a lot of money.  I don't know why anyone who could manage any of these objectives would sit on such a wonderful discovery.

Offline ARMCORTEX

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Not very encouraging I agree.

But it looks better for Stan`s brother, who is engineer with much experience.

Navy engineer, wich much much background. Are you saying he is not credible ? He is zeus like, crusher.

Im sure he went farther than what the university researcher go.

No doubt he knows of the effect of this document.


Offline MarkE

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Not very encouraging I agree.

But it looks better for Stan`s brother, who is engineer with much experience.

Navy engineer, wich much much background. Are you saying he is not credible ? He is zeus like, crusher.

Im sure he went farther than what the university researcher go.

No doubt he knows of the effect of this document.
Whatever he may or may not know or claim, he has not presented an electrolyzer that exceeds Faraday efficiency.  In a way this is sort of like the Papp engine and the two Rohner brothers.  John Rohner has been caught lying so many times it isn't funny including claims to multiple PhD's when under oath he has admitted to only a high school education.  He's fighting a lawsuit by the SEC, and faces a DoJ criminal action behind that.  Then there is his brother Bob Rohner who is an accomplished mechanical engineer with a real degree.  Bob's been trying for many years but still has never publicly shown that he can get any excess energy out of noble gasses.

Offline ARMCORTEX

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No doubt, he has the qualifications, background to replicate this document.

Why dont we see implementation of that document, I dont understand.

It is identical to the xogen patent

I was following the xogen thing when they had their test plant, but they just dissapeared prior to that.

What were results ? Nothing is known.


Offline ARMCORTEX

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The thing that strikes me the most about Stephen`s patent is first of all, why he chose 6 cells, why he chose such complex signals.

This is structure buiding IMHO. His only clue in his interview, was, why is snow white, and some unrelated mention of radiation, cell radiates.

But from other prior designs not necessary.

What I think is necessary, as Ltseung says, is kinetic energy. In patent application of Stephen there is mention of mechanical vibration of the cell itself.


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