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Author Topic: Overunity Magnetic cone drive!!  (Read 6350 times)

Offline vineet_kiran

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Overunity Magnetic cone drive!!
« on: July 30, 2014, 11:43:28 AM »
 
 
Torque / Power magnification using permanent magnets.

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Offline tinman

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Re: Overunity Magnetic cone drive!!
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2014, 12:03:10 PM »
And this increases torque how?
If there is no slip of the magnetic coupling,the motor and generator are still a 1 to 1 ratio.


Offline MarkE

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Re: Overunity Magnetic cone drive!!
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2014, 12:09:17 PM »
Vineet, unless you really enjoy getting shot down out of the gate, maybe you should perform some basic analysis on these ideas of yours before presenting them.

Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: Overunity Magnetic cone drive!!
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2014, 12:44:21 PM »
And this increases torque how?
If there is no slip of the magnetic coupling,the motor and generator are still a 1 to 1 ratio.

 
Torque = Force  X  Radius

WIth every step of magnets as shown in the figure, radius goes up hence torque goes up.

Since magnets  are provided at the end of radius,  force acts at the end.  Hence you get magnified torque at the center. I think for same reason we use spanners, wrenches, handcranks etc.,  to get magnified torque at the center.

Power = 2π X RPM(N) X Torque

RPM (N)  remains same for both motor and generator. Hence when torque gets magnified, you get more output
from the generator.
 

Vineet, unless you really enjoy getting shot down out of the gate, maybe you should perform some basic analysis on these ideas of yours before presenting them.

 
 
I don't think anybody will enjoy shooting me down at gate because it will be a mere waste of bullet.  Quality bullets are expensive
nowadays.  Using butcher's axe would be a cheaper method.
 
Anyway if it is wrong,  tell me why it is wrong.
 
 
 
 

 
 


Offline tinman

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Re: Overunity Magnetic cone drive!!
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2014, 04:12:56 PM »
It's wrong because your holding your wrench around the part that is around the nut,and not the outer edge of the wrench.Simple mechanics can explain why this is a no win situation. Insted of spending a lot of time and money on magnets,bearings,and all those fancy free spining arms,simply replace your magnet cone array with a steel or plastic funnel. You have exactly the same thing-small radius at the motor,and large radius at the generator.

You see,you forgot one thing,and that is you have to have a disk from the generator shaft(small radius),to the magnetic cone's large radius. So if we look at it from your angle,you geared down,and now you have to gear back up to conect it to the generator. Might aswell just use a yanki coupling to conect motor to generator,and be happy with the 75% efficiency.

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Re: Overunity Magnetic cone drive!!
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2014, 04:12:56 PM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Overunity Magnetic cone drive!!
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2014, 04:18:43 PM »

 
Torque = Force  X  Radius

WIth every step of magnets as shown in the figure, radius goes up hence torque goes up.

Since magnets  are provided at the end of radius,  force acts at the end.  Hence you get magnified torque at the center. I think for same reason we use spanners, wrenches, handcranks etc.,  to get magnified torque at the center.

Power = 2π X RPM(N) X Torque

RPM (N)  remains same for both motor and generator. Hence when torque gets magnified, you get more output
from the generator.
 
 
 
 
I don't think anybody will enjoy shooting me down at gate because it will be a mere waste of bullet.  Quality bullets are expensive
nowadays.  Using butcher's axe would be a cheaper method.
 
Anyway if it is wrong,  tell me why it is wrong.
It is wrong because once again you ignore basic mechanics and kinematics.    If you believe in any of these unworkable devices that you propose;  then go build one and see what happens in the real world.

Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: Overunity Magnetic cone drive!!
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2014, 04:01:55 AM »

It's wrong because your holding your wrench around the part that is around the nut,and not the outer edge of the wrench.Simple mechanics can explain why this is a no win situation. Insted of spending a lot of time and money on magnets,bearings,and all those fancy free spining arms,simply replace your magnet cone array with a steel or plastic funnel. You have exactly the same thing-small radius at the motor,and large radius at the generator.
 

In  a  gear drive,  does the bigger gear  encircle  the entire small gear?   It  transmits torque  through teeth at the edge only.    The  equation 
T =  F X R,   holds  good for force applied  at any point on a circle. You hold the wrench around the nut only for grip with greater contact surface.
 
If  you use single steel or plastic funnel,   the force  developed  at the bigger radius  will be less because it will be ‘force within’.    When  you separate  individual arms  and allow them to rotate,  the force received by these arms will  be  ‘external force’.   ie.,   the bigger arm receives the  same force as developed by smaller arm.
 
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You see,you forgot one thing,and that is you have to have a disk from the generator shaft(small radius),to the magnetic cone's large radius. So if we look at it from your angle,you geared down,and now you have to gear back up to conect it to the generator. Might aswell just use a yanki coupling to conect motor to generator,and be happy with the 75% efficiency.


Since the part of magnetic cone fixed on generator shaft  receives external force,   it will not be geared down.   It magnifies the central  torque as per lever rules.
 
 

It is wrong because once again you ignore basic mechanics and kinematics.    If you believe in any of these unworkable devices that you propose;  then go build one and see what happens in the real world. 

You  are singing  the same song again and again.   It will not work,  it will not work, it will not work.   Why don’t you tell  why it  will not work?   I  don’t  know the basic mechanics.   Please explain me why it will not work using basic mechanics.   
 
If  I had proper resources I would have built a OU device long time back.   I am coughing up all my ideas  here only because if some intelligent person sees it,  he may improve the idea and make it work.
 
I  never thought you people are so dull headed.    I  need a wise guy to tell me why it will not work.
 
 

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Re: Overunity Magnetic cone drive!!
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2014, 04:01:55 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Overunity Magnetic cone drive!!
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2014, 06:36:12 AM »
You  are singing  the same song again and again.   It will not work,  it will not work, it will not work.   Why don’t you tell  why it  will not work?   I  don’t  know the basic mechanics.   Please explain me why it will not work using basic mechanics.   
 
If  I had proper resources I would have built a OU device long time back.   I am coughing up all my ideas  here only because if some intelligent person sees it,  he may improve the idea and make it work.
 
I  never thought you people are so dull headed.    I  need a wise guy to tell me why it will not work.
 
You object to the comments, yet the comments are correct.  You make such fundamental errors as describing objects that move at different velocities simultaneously.

Offline Newton II

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Re: Overunity Magnetic cone drive!!
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2014, 07:29:07 AM »

I  never thought you people are so dull headed.    I  need a wise guy to tell me why it will not work.
 


OK!   I am a wise guy!    I  understood  your  ‘theory’  and agree with your argument of ‘internal’  and ‘external’  forces.
 
But the torque equation given by you is incomplete.   It is actually,

Torque  =  Radius   X   Force  X  Sinθ

Where  ‘θ’    is  angle between applied force and radius.     Force acting on radius  will be same as applied  force only when  θ = 900  which is ,  only  when you apply force  tangentially  on radius,  it will experience Maximum force and develops  maximum torque.

From  your figure it is obvious  that  force is not acting  at  900  due to angle of the cone.  So,  radius will not experience full  force.   It  experiences only a component of force depending on angle  ‘θ’ .    So,  you don’t get maximum torque at the  centre.

Also from your figure,   the central shaft need not  be through out.   Just keep the fixed magnets  on motor shaft and  separate  the balance shaft  because it need not rotate.   



Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: Overunity Magnetic cone drive!!
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2014, 09:07:49 AM »

OK!   I am a wise guy!    I  understood  your  ‘theory’  and agree with your argument of ‘internal’  and ‘external’  forces.
 
From  your figure it is obvious  that  force is not acting  at  900  due to angle of the cone.  So,  radius will not experience full
force.   It  experiences only a component of force depending on angle  ‘θ’ .    So,  you don’t get maximum torque at the  centre.


You are wise enough to understand my 'theory'  but not wise enough to analyze it.

The angle 'theta'  comes into picture only when rotating magnets are not parallel. Since all rotating arms have magnets facing with parallel arrangement, and they rotate parallaly with respect to one another,  force acts at 90 degree (tangentially) only. The angle established by the cone with central axis doesnot reflect on driving angle of the magnet.
 

Also from your figure,   the central shaft need not  be through out.   Just keep the fixed magnets  on motor shaft and  separate the balance shaft  because it need not rotate.


Agreed.  The individual rotating arms can be kept on separate stands or even on a series of cantilevers using bearings.
 
 

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Re: Overunity Magnetic cone drive!!
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2014, 09:07:49 AM »
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Offline Newton II

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Re: Overunity Magnetic cone drive!!
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2014, 01:47:43 PM »

Hello Vineet,

I think you belong to a class of people who argue that they saw a Pythorhombus monkey  which had tail in the front and genital on the ass.   God is not so cranky to create such an animal.

I think it is right time to pray Lord Perpeculum for your success.

Wish you goodluck!

Offline tinman

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Re: Overunity Magnetic cone drive!!
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2014, 02:01:01 PM »
Quote: The angle 'theta'  comes into picture only when rotating magnets are not parallel. Since all rotating arms have magnets facing with parallel arrangement, and they rotate parallaly with respect to one another,  force acts at 90 degree (tangentially) only. The angle established by the cone with central axis doesnot reflect on driving angle of the magnet.

Oh Dear ::)


Offline tinman

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Re: Overunity Magnetic cone drive!!
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2014, 02:10:17 PM »
Here is one word that may help you understand why your setup will achieve nothing(except for slip)-triangle

Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: Overunity Magnetic cone drive!!
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2014, 03:51:31 PM »
Here is one word that may help you understand why your setup will achieve nothing(except for slip)-triangle

If magnets are strong enough,  they won't slip in triangle.  That is only a design problem.  If magnets slip when you use only one arm, you can introduce another arm at right angles with additional two magnets, one on each end or several arms in star shape.  Which requires lots and lots of magnets.
 
Anyway I agree that practically it is a difficult device to build.

Thanks for all the inputs.


 

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