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Author Topic: KA4EP Torch (kacher torch)  (Read 17798 times)

Offline MarkE

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Re: KA4EP Torch (kacher torch)
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2014, 09:01:37 PM »
I grabbed a couple 555 timer chips, and configured them for a short duty cycle variable frequency...
a very short duty cycle draws a lot of power (ends up using a low resistance on the charge side); will probably add a hex-inverter in after the drive, and use a large duty cycle instead... and I expect the issue to remain after this change.
When the duty cycle is long enough to (close) the transistor and get a good current through the coil, at the shutoff side, there is a HUGE amount of noise introduced.  I added the resistor & capacitor in series with another capacitor to ground (supposedly adjustable, but I'm just breadboarding so it's all adjustable)  like in akula lantern 4... (attached)
is it the transistor I've used that makes this unavoidable?  Is there a way to make it less noisy?
I added a diode between the inductor (to collector of transistor) because apparently the transistor used by akula must have such a character, because the feedback is progressively lower, and with every transistor I have if the collector is lower than the base, then it conducts... that's how I meter them to see they are still good... so there must be a internal blocking diode for the signal to remain.... or an omitted part...


but anyway; about the noise?
If you have transistors turning inductors on and off rapidly, then it becomes important to have a controlled place for the inductor current to keep flowing.  This affects both circuit design and layout.  If you have a bunch of stray inductance in the switched path, then the inductor current being switched will have to overcome that stray inductance, and it will with a huge dv/dt.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: KA4EP Torch (kacher torch)
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2014, 09:01:37 PM »

Offline Madebymonkeys

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Re: KA4EP Torch (kacher torch)
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2014, 09:45:02 PM »
If you have transistors turning inductors on and off rapidly, then it becomes important to have a controlled place for the inductor current to keep flowing.  This affects both circuit design and layout.  If you have a bunch of stray inductance in the switched path, then the inductor current being switched will have to overcome that stray inductance, and it will with a huge dv/dt.

Hi,

I asked earlier but, what is the purpose of the cct?

Cct 1 (the Russian sch):
Is the energy passed into the storage cap at 'start' apparently less that what goes into the load?

Cct 2 (joule thief?):
This looks like a std step up dcdc converter (joule thief?), something which can be achieved much more efficiently with a $0.25 converter off the shelf...plus a small $0.25 inductor.

Have I got the wrong end of the stick here?
Making our own inductors, transformers and oscillators is fun (and a great learning exercise) but whats the underlying purpose of the Akula 'thing'?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline d3x0r

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Re: KA4EP Torch (kacher torch)
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2014, 10:32:27 PM »
If you have transistors turning inductors on and off rapidly, then it becomes important to have a controlled place for the inductor current to keep flowing.  This affects both circuit design and layout.  If you have a bunch of stray inductance in the switched path, then the inductor current being switched will have to overcome that stray inductance, and it will with a huge dv/dt.
Okay I did just run into a note about a driver board for these color LEDs where the signal switch time is 1.5us; and it was said that the matching resistors should be mounted as close to the board as possible.  I do still have original long leads on the parts... and maybe that's enough inductance to cause an issue.  I did see that the internals of the 555 are better for driving a signal than a tl494 since it's both a pull up(pnp) and pull down(npn) system instead of a single transistor...


But specifically I had removed the excess parts, so it's just the primary coil from power to the collector (with a diode between the inductor and collector but that didn't change anything).  I started with simply the 555 pin 3(output) to the base of a transistor, the coil and ground.  Not a lot of complexity.  The secondary is open (not conducting).  THis was a 3 inch long jumper wire though... but when brought to ground, the 555 should be an NPN conducting to ground for the base... which means the only current really being stopped is against the collector.... I dunno I guess I have some extra inductance on the ground side, could add some filter caps near the drive transistor


Offline d3x0r

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Re: KA4EP Torch (kacher torch)
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2014, 10:52:44 PM »
Hi,I asked earlier but, what is the purpose of the cct?Cct 1 (the Russian sch):Is the energy passed into the storage cap at 'start' apparently less that what goes into the load?Cct 2 (joule thief?):This looks like a std step up dcdc converter (joule thief?), something which can be achieved much more efficiently with a $0.25 converter off the shelf...plus a small $0.25 inductor.Have I got the wrong end of the stick here?Making our own inductors, transformers and oscillators is fun (and a great learning exercise) but whats the underlying purpose of the Akula 'thing'?
(edit2: cct1: yes, but why.  and cct2: just part of the cct1 that's self oscillating and simpler part count...)

To break a simple supposed long running device into its parts to see why it might work. (some claim it's a supercap rebranded to look like a 2200uf cap; but I have caps that have 3 lines in a triange which they claimed was 'telltale signs' it was a supercap.  It means nothing.  I have some that have 6 (kinda like >-+-< .. a split X with a | in the middle) )
given a breakdown of the remainder of the circuit as applied to a self pulser (laser saber teslamaker.com flashlight variation) with additional paths for feedback to keep the high side high and the low side low, although it helped was not an end-all solution)


The next area to investigate is Melnichenko supposed effect https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT9ynJ2_6Ng


all 3 images, yellow is gate, blue is collector.
image 1 : base goes high, collector to 0, gate goes high, collector goes high, nothing special, this is a pot core, no gap.  This is also how I've seen every air core work.
image 2 : akula's device during build demonstrating... (flyback core) base goes high, collector goes low, collector pulses high, and results in a voltage below 0.
image 3 : my own flyback core, base goes high, collector goes low, and after a short time gets a kickback pulse (actually many in quick succession), but never in a voltage below 0.


Should be getting my bobbins and E cores today to try some variations in genuine melnichenko style... just was trying to find a better pulser, the TL494 idles at 10ma draw... the 555 timer can already beat this easily...


---
3rd time's the charm... first time image was too big for upload, second time it thought I already submitted this message... so here goes 3


Edit: yes, it's kinda fun, yes it's definatly a learning XP, but a canned part is also already known to not work continuously on 2200uF power... not saying one can't be built, but they don't yet build them.


Offline Madebymonkeys

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Re: KA4EP Torch (kacher torch)
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2014, 12:45:53 AM »
(edit2: cct1: yes, but why.  and cct2: just part of the cct1 that's self oscillating and simpler part count...)

To break a simple supposed long running device into its parts to see why it might work. (some claim it's a supercap rebranded to look like a 2200uf cap; but I have caps that have 3 lines in a triange which they claimed was 'telltale signs' it was a supercap.  It means nothing.  I have some that have 6 (kinda like >-+-< .. a split X with a | in the middle) )
given a breakdown of the remainder of the circuit as applied to a self pulser (laser saber teslamaker.com flashlight variation) with additional paths for feedback to keep the high side high and the low side low, although it helped was not an end-all solution)


The next area to investigate is Melnichenko supposed effect https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT9ynJ2_6Ng


all 3 images, yellow is gate, blue is collector.
image 1 : base goes high, collector to 0, gate goes high, collector goes high, nothing special, this is a pot core, no gap.  This is also how I've seen every air core work.
image 2 : akula's device during build demonstrating... (flyback core) base goes high, collector goes low, collector pulses high, and results in a voltage below 0.
image 3 : my own flyback core, base goes high, collector goes low, and after a short time gets a kickback pulse (actually many in quick succession), but never in a voltage below 0.


Should be getting my bobbins and E cores today to try some variations in genuine melnichenko style... just was trying to find a better pulser, the TL494 idles at 10ma draw... the 555 timer can already beat this easily...


---
3rd time's the charm... first time image was too big for upload, second time it thought I already submitted this message... so here goes 3


Edit: yes, it's kinda fun, yes it's definatly a learning XP, but a canned part is also already known to not work continuously on 2200uF power... not saying one can't be built, but they don't yet build them.

Got it. Do you have any measurements for power in vs power out?
LEDs are a nice visual load but they illuminate down to a very low current - a resistor is a great load (especially if connected low side) as you can measure V with a scope across it and calculate power.

Also, I guarantee that you would be able to find an oscillator which operates with a lower Iq than a homebrew  ;) The TL494 and 555 aren't suited to high efficiency converter applications at all. Choose a chip from this century from the likes of ON Semiconductor, Torex or Linear Tech and you will see a difference in Iq of a huge amount. If you need something for simple pulses - use an inverter and a crystal (or RC).

Finally, 'gate' (along with drain and source) is typically used with field effect transistors, base (along with collector and emitter) with BJT's - mixing two naming conventions can cause confusion to those who don't know what you 'really' mean. Please don't take this the wrong way, I really am not trying to be an ass!  :)

As for the supercap thing and 2200uF 'power' - a canned/packaged part can run happily on whatever (within reason!) input you provide...just depends on the load current vs time. Many packaged parts have extremely low Iq (and dropout) and will run down to voltages well below your BJT cct. The http://www.linear.com/product/LTC3108 for instance, can run as a step up converter happily down to 20mV.

If you do the math on input power vs output power then you will realise that there is no OU. It may be close...but no cigar. To get closer to a theoretical 100% efficiency you should embrace some off the shelf semi's - do one cct with and one without, see the difference with your own eyes.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: KA4EP Torch (kacher torch)
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2014, 12:45:53 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: KA4EP Torch (kacher torch)
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2014, 01:28:47 AM »
@d3x0r
Quote
To break a simple supposed long running device into its parts to see why it might work. (some claim it's a supercap rebranded to look like a 2200uf cap; but I have caps that have 3 lines in a triange which they claimed was 'telltale signs' it was a supercap.  It means nothing.  I have some that have 6 (kinda like >-+-< .. a split X with a | in the middle) )
That's right, the pressure-relief scores on the tops of the capacitors can be in various styles and don't indicate anything in particular.

But... consider this. I've demonstrated that these circuits can run a long time on tiny batteries, much longer than on any reasonable supercap. The required battery or batteries could be concealed inside a potentiometer housing or inside a capacitor can. I'm sure I can get enough batteries into a typical can to run any of the LED devices for hours, if not days. Turning it on by a brief contact with an external battery is easy to manage.
However.. I have also demonstrated that similar circuits, especially if they involve a lot of inductance, are quite good at working without onboard power at all, just by picking up power that might be in the ambience... like in the near field of a powerful radio station's antenna and transmitter, or like near one of my very simple wireless power transmitters. Again, it would be a relatively simple matter to put a transmitting loop all the way around an entire room and have the wireless transmitter in a closet or even a small unnoticed box sitting around.
This is one possible explanation for why nobody has been able to make any self running devices using the circuits published. They don't have batteries in their cap cases or live close to their local hard-rock FM station.

Offline MarkE

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Re: KA4EP Torch (kacher torch)
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2014, 05:25:26 AM »
Hi,

I asked earlier but, what is the purpose of the cct?

Cct 1 (the Russian sch):
Is the energy passed into the storage cap at 'start' apparently less that what goes into the load?

Cct 2 (joule thief?):
This looks like a std step up dcdc converter (joule thief?), something which can be achieved much more efficiently with a $0.25 converter off the shelf...plus a small $0.25 inductor.

Have I got the wrong end of the stick here?
Making our own inductors, transformers and oscillators is fun (and a great learning exercise) but whats the underlying purpose of the Akula 'thing'?
You Tube hits.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: KA4EP Torch (kacher torch)
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2014, 05:25:26 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline d3x0r

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Re: KA4EP Torch (kacher torch)
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2014, 05:30:12 AM »
Got it. Do you have any measurements for power in vs power out?
just been focusing on power in > 0.
[/font]Finally, 'gate' (along with drain and source) is typically used with field effect transistors, base (along with collector and emitter) with BJT's - mixing two naming conventions can cause confusion to those who don't know what you 'really' mean. Please don't take this the wrong way, I really am not trying to be an ass!  :)
dangit I thought I got all gate references replaced with base.


Offline d3x0r

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Re: KA4EP Torch (kacher torch)
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2014, 05:44:54 AM »
You Tube hits.
Not likely since he keeps making them private and didn't enable commercials.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbyJKRuzFLw engrish translation about ferroresonance principle.

Offline d3x0r

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Re: KA4EP Torch (kacher torch)
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2017, 05:19:04 PM »

(just for archival)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRVEE_9uTc0


Ruslan replication


Hmm was just saw a ruslan video on this; but seems that channel no longer exists... he was mostly complaining that he's made 0 money and it works and people call him a faker so he seemed frustrated... maybe it was a goodbye video(?)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: KA4EP Torch (kacher torch)
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2017, 05:19:04 PM »
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Offline d3x0r

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Re: KA4EP Torch (kacher torch)
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2017, 10:05:02 PM »
Addtional diodes notation ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0R2T_JRGrI




Offline profitis

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Re: KA4EP Torch (kacher torch)
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2017, 04:45:12 AM »
"Hmm was just saw a ruslan video"

Are you sure it was ruslan


Offline d3x0r

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Re: KA4EP Torch (kacher torch)
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2017, 06:29:08 AM »
"Hmm was just saw a ruslan video"

Are you sure it was ruslan
ya.  Was surprised... but youtube is kinda an obsession of mine so I check my subscriptions a few times a day.  This is a the last message had a repost of a video by dragonlord, but it's not the video I saw when I first saw the added diode notes.  I didn't think to grab it at the time because I was thinking it would have stayed up.
pretty sure it was on the topruslan channel; but that doesn't exist anymore... and it wasn't in my history.

Offline AlienGrey

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Re: KA4EP Torch (kacher torch)
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2017, 02:07:56 PM »
Hi if your interested Arunes published a (T1000) shared some interesting information a while back on this device on how to wind the coils I don't think it made a difference but he later mentioned some dialogue with Akula (Roma) that the he alters and experiments with the core material Barium oxide and making cavity bubbles and holes in the ferrox material and finding it's resonant frequency and the constructor should bear in mind that the energy must have to come from some where if not from the actual core material then one should ask ones self 'where' ? 

Note the advert bellow, not all material has barium in it (chem trails do  8) :o :-X :-\)

https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/barium-ferrite-magnet.html

let me know how you get on  PS I made a pcb for this device years ago I think it went in the bin ;)

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