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Author Topic: Spring Coupling  (Read 15210 times)

Offline webby1

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Re: Spring Coupling
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2014, 01:24:04 AM »
Hey Mark,

While you are there I have an issue that maybe you can help with.  I am trying to get a baseline for a mechanical device I am testing,, so to do so I decided I will run with an input motor and an output motor with a load resistor across the output motor,, not looking for anything other than a change in efficiency,, so the roughly 11% efficient part of this is fine.

The problem I have is that after I have run the system head to head the input goes down and the output goes up,, so that would artificially affect the values I am looking at.

Do you know what can cause this condition and or how I can fix it so that I have the same input power to relative output everytime??

Some of the condtions I will be setting up in will not allow me to run for 20 minutes without destroying the testbed,, and to run the motor loaded and the output loaded would take enough time to reset that things would settle back into the start condtions again.

Input voltage is 3.5 +-0.005V, the V shown is output.


The last A is going through the load resistor
                                 A           A         V         V         A
                 white          1.3     1.32    15.94   16   
09:00:00 AM  2 minutes  1.28    1.31    16.02   16.09   
      11 minutes     1.23   1.26   16.35    16.39   
                     
11:02:00 AM    none     0.9     0.92    18.41   18.48   
                 2 minutes  0.89    0.91    18.56   18.6   
                 3              0.88    0.91    18.58   18.62   
                 7              0.87    0.9     18.68   18.73   
                 8              0.86    0.9     18.67   18.75   
                 11             0.86    0.89    18.7    18.76   
                 14             0.85    0.88    18.66   18.74   
11:17:00 AM    white   1.23    1.25    16.12   16.28   0.041
                 2              1.23    1.25    16.23   16.38   0.0411
                 3              1.22    1.25    16.28   16.37   0.0413
                 4              1.21    1.24    16.26   16.32   0.0411
                 9              1.2     1.23    16.26   16.37   0.0411
                 11             1.21    1.24    16.28   16.41   0.0413
                 14             1.21    1.24    16.39   13.48   0.0414
                 15             1.21    1.24    16.43   16.47   0.0414
                 16             1.21    1.23    16.37   16.45   0.0415
                 17             1.2     1.23    16.39   16.48   0.0415
                 19             1.2     1.23    16.43   16.47   0.0415
11:36:00 AM    yellow  1.09    1.12    16.81   16.94   0.0288
11:42:00 AM      end 5  1.09    1.12    16.78   16.95   0.029
4 minute stop              1.08    1.11    16.72   16.8    0.0288
                                  1.08    1.11    16.69   16.79   0.0287
                                 1.07    1.1     16.77   16.92   0.0289
11:51 all off                1.07    1.1     16.84   16.89   0.029
03:18:00 PM    yellow  1.15    1.18    16.47   16.62   0.0283
                                1.15    1.18    16.62   16.57   0.0284
                 7              1.11    1.14    16.72   16.82   0.0287
                 9              1.09    1.13    16.77   16.82   0.0287
                 10             1.09    1.12    16.74   16.92   0.0287
yellow=573ohms
white=388ohms

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Spring Coupling
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2014, 01:24:04 AM »

Offline MarkE

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Re: Spring Coupling
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2014, 02:42:50 AM »
A motor or generator will not necessarily have a flat efficiency curve.  So, if you are moving up and down the efficiency you will need a calibration curve that you can use to correct the measured values.  The easiest way around this problem is to find a load that is very flat at least in the region where you want to make measurements.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline webby1

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Re: Spring Coupling
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2014, 06:45:27 AM »
I have been  stepping by 0.1V from 0.5V up to 3.5V,, this is how I noticed my issue,, when I was done after a few hours of running it and went back to spot check my previous numbers the were off by a fair amount.

After I posted the question here I was thinking that since I have replaced the meters, wires, input motor twice and the load resistors that my problem might be mechanical in the built in gearbox for the output motor,, what if the grease they are using "softens" after so much shear,, but I am not sure if that would give the change I am getting,, any way, I have diluted that lube down with some thin stuff and by itself it spins easier,, but the noise is pretty bad and it is late,, so I will run it back up tomorrow and hope that the issue is solved.

and here I thought that it would be a simple case of set it up and just run it, record it and then I could compare,,, nothing is that simple some days :)

Offline MarkE

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Re: Spring Coupling
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2014, 06:59:15 AM »
I have been  stepping by 0.1V from 0.5V up to 3.5V,, this is how I noticed my issue,, when I was done after a few hours of running it and went back to spot check my previous numbers the were off by a fair amount.

After I posted the question here I was thinking that since I have replaced the meters, wires, input motor twice and the load resistors that my problem might be mechanical in the built in gearbox for the output motor,, what if the grease they are using "softens" after so much shear,, but I am not sure if that would give the change I am getting,, any way, I have diluted that lube down with some thin stuff and by itself it spins easier,, but the noise is pretty bad and it is late,, so I will run it back up tomorrow and hope that the issue is solved.

and here I thought that it would be a simple case of set it up and just run it, record it and then I could compare,,, nothing is that simple some days :)
A gear box adds a lot of variables.  In the ideal case you would have a good torque transducer and then control the load electronically to get your measurement set-points.  You might be a lot better off with something like a prony brake than a gear motor.


Offline webby1

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Re: Spring Coupling
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2014, 02:15:55 AM »
Well no joy,, but now the current draw has gone down lower :)

I can only do with what I have,, or what I can make,, the new meters were an early birthday present.

To me it does not make sense that the input goes down and the output goes up,, I could see the input go down and the output stay the same,, or more likely go down.

I guess that means I am gong to have to use plan "B",, more of a pain but a run up for 40 minutes without the testing device active in the middle should not be that hard to do.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Spring Coupling
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2014, 02:15:55 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline ARMCORTEX

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Re: Spring Coupling
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2014, 03:33:11 AM »
illumination is found here  :-X

the truth is out there 8)

Offline Newton II

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Re: Spring Coupling
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2014, 03:52:28 AM »
illumination is found here  :-X

the truth is out there 8)
 

Out where?  Please turn the illumination towards truth!   World will be greatful to you!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Spring Coupling
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2014, 03:52:28 AM »
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Offline mscoffman

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Re: Spring Coupling
« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2014, 06:34:44 PM »
Well no joy,, but now the current draw has gone down lower :)

I can only do with what I have,, or what I can make,, the new meters were an early birthday present.

To me it does not make sense that the input goes down and the output goes up,, I could see the input go down and the output stay the same,, or more likely go down.

I guess that means I am gong to have to use plan "B",, more of a pain but a run up for 40 minutes without the testing device active in the middle should not be that hard to do.


@webby1,

Lubrication will change viscosity with use and temperature.  Especially in a gearbox. There was a you-tube video
of a person testing a qmogen sized flywheel device for top RPM. He used a butane blowtorch to get the bearing
parts of his device up to temperature quickly before he began. Now I can see why.

---

There are instrumentation coupling-connectors with torque measuring devices built in. It finds the torque and
the rpm and an instrument displays the mechanical power being transmitted through the coupling.
These type of things would be useful for use in a rotating-equipment installation because it's often not
immediately obvious which direction mechanical power is flowing.


:S:MarkSCoffman





Offline gravityblock

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Re: Spring Coupling
« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2014, 08:11:55 PM »
He who guesses this device will understand a very very good design for implementing springy energy resonance.

Probably the best springy device ever made.

I will not respond to this thread anymore.

The living energy machine!

Gravock

Offline webby1

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Re: Spring Coupling
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2014, 03:58:25 AM »

There are instrumentation coupling-connectors with torque measuring devices built in. It finds the torque and
the rpm and an instrument displays the mechanical power being transmitted through the coupling.
These type of things would be useful for use in a rotating-equipment installation because it's often not
immediately obvious which direction mechanical power is flowing.


:S:MarkSCoffman

If I had them I would like to use them :)

I try and make do with what I can and what I have.

The main problem does seem to be in the output motor and its gearbox,, so I run it for a while and then see what the meters show,, not really a good method but does show a tendency which I make changes by.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Spring Coupling
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2014, 03:58:25 AM »
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