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Author Topic: Over Balanced Gravity Motor need help with magnet ramp  (Read 3433 times)

Offline burnit0017

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Over Balanced Gravity Motor need help with magnet ramp
« on: June 10, 2014, 08:54:20 PM »
Greeting, I am new to the forum and I have been working on over balance gravity wheel, I call it GRAM. Basically I am trying to combined one way swinging pendulums on a axle. As the weight falls away from the center it well form a weighted lever arm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p63ArXbJ4Vs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G33-9oeNjLs

I would like to add a ramp with a magnet track to move the weighted pendulum to the end of the ramp and then gravity could take over as the weight falls off the ramp.  I found the below example of a magnet track but I do not sure how to fabricate the magnet rails from the illustrations.  Any help will be greatly appreciated.  The weight only has to move 6 inches until it falls off the end of ramp. Suggestions welcome.
http://www.keelynet.com/energy/tomibild.htm

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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Over Balanced Gravity Motor need help with magnet ramp
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2014, 09:35:20 PM »
I watched your videos; it's clear that you are doing nice work and making good use of materials and techniques. But... have you ever done any real quantitative testing to see if your levers and ratchets and weights are actually working as intended? Here's a post I made in another thread yesterday:

Quote
Take any actual Bessler or other "gravity wheel" prototype model with moving parts like weights and levers. Of course it doesn't spin on its own, but if we give it a little starting push we can see how long it takes to come to a stop after that little push. So figure out a way to give your wheel a repeatable and known amount of energy in a starting "push". Like wrapping a string around the axle or periphery and letting a dropping weight pull on the string to start the wheel. In this way you can precisely repeat a known amount of starting energy to your wheel.  Make a few runs, timing the rundown time and computing an average and a variance (or standard deviation). If you are careful and your wheel is stable you should be able to get a consistent rundown time (small SD) from run to run. Right?

Now take your wheel with its moving parts and freeze every one of them at "half-travel". By tightening or glue or other means. Leave only the central axle unfrozen. So now you have an inert wheel of the same mass as before and hopefully the same average moment of inertia. Right? Now repeat the timed rundowns using the same energy injection method as before.  Do a bunch of runs, compute the average and the standard deviation.

Compare and report your findings. Repeat the rundown tests with any additions, changes, "improvements" etc that you might make.

It should be clear that any real "working" modification that works as Bessler intended should _increase_ the rundown time over the inert wheel. But if the rundown time is _decreased_... then your modification didn't work, it's actually worse than a simple solid and symmetrical disc would be.

I say this: there is no modification involving moving parts that will increase the rundown time, over that found with a solid inert disk of the same MoI. None. Unless of course the system is powered somehow, and not by gravity. Moving parts like falling levers, shifting weights, etc. are a loss mechanism that dissipates power through frictional heating, noise, and moving air around. They don't add to the rotational energy of the wheel.


The same testing principle holds for Permanent Magnet Motors. If you replace all your magnets with inert blocks of the same mass.... do you get longer, or shorter rundown times from a known starting impulse?

You may not agree with that last part... obviously if you did you wouldn't try to build such a device. That's fine with me... but can you produce real data that supports your belief and contradicts mine?


The Keelynet page you linked starts out with a segment that hasn't been changed since 1995, and if you don't read it carefully you might think that "working" means that the magnet ramps described there will operate with more energy out than in, that is, allow perpetual looping. But they don't, they didn't then, they never have and they never will. As the writers know:
Quote
It sounds good, but in fact will not work, so don't go out and buy $100s of bucks worth of magnets.  Try it yourself by stacking 20 or so magnets together and see how the field weakens.
And since the moving bit doesn't _really_ leave the individual ramp/gates with more energy than it entered, chaining them around in a circle also won't work.

Real research is sorely needed in this gravity-magnet motor activity. That's why I suggest, often, that people actually perform quantitative comparison testing to see if what they are doing is working as they intend.


Offline burnit0017

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Re: Over Balanced Gravity Motor need help with magnet ramp
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2014, 12:01:07 AM »
Hi, the way I fabricated the weighted pendulum sets creates a situation where two of the pendulums are always fully extended and in free fall.
Taking a lost at the mag ramp is ok, do you know what the side view of the magnet ramp looks like?


The goal at this stage of the project is to find a magnet ramp configuration to move the weight 6 inches side ways. More weighted pendulums sets can be added later. Other dimensions can also be increased.   


 

Offline burnit0017

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Re: Over Balanced Gravity Motor need help with magnet ramp
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2014, 03:21:08 AM »
http://www.venusproject.org/new-energy/magnetic-levitation-or-maglev-propulsion.html
If a suitable magnet ramp is not found then the above configuration maybe a solution.  Just make a smaller version.

The final part of the project will be to drive a PMA. I should be able to harvest around 50% of the torque that is applied to the axle.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWCytxxExws


Offline burnit0017

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Re: Over Balanced Gravity Motor need help with magnet ramp
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2014, 04:17:12 AM »
http://newenergytimes.com/v2/archives/fic/N/N199503s.PDF

Page 5 shows a side view of the TOMI mag track.

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Re: Over Balanced Gravity Motor need help with magnet ramp
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2014, 04:17:12 AM »
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