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Author Topic: Akula eternal lantern 4  (Read 148392 times)

Offline d3x0r

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #75 on: August 03, 2014, 05:19:31 PM »
The gap does matter; I had some of the glue leftover from where the space was on my core, so I wasn't actually getting it closed... removed the glue, and a closed core does not do the same thing.


On akula's (an prior times I saw this' the collector rises before the base does down... so it had looked like the collector was the first...
on my video, the base is falling first for sure....though in prior experiments I have seen that it appeared the collector was first to react...


Although; akula's scope is on the other side of the cap/resistor from the base... so maybe the base is falling first (the capacitance is satisfied by current from the emitter...) but then it recharges very fast

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #75 on: August 03, 2014, 05:19:31 PM »

Offline itsu

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #76 on: August 03, 2014, 06:22:33 PM »

... so looking at details of akula's board... he has the power supply with a long wire soldered to a large-ish capacitor...
Hmm schematic must be wrong... the pulldown(1k) and variable(0-.22n) cap must be on the other side of the 10ohm&10n to the base...
*sigh* and there's 2 transistor things that aren't represented...

I don't think that would make any sense to have the  pulldown(1k) and variable(0-.22n) cap at the other side of the 10ohm&10n.
The fysical location on the print does not confirm this, also the pulldown (1K) would be needed there right at the base when using an IRF (MOSFET)
which he mentions he would start using when he found the ferroresonance of the core.

The "2 transistor things" are in the 2e diagram in post #1 of this thread:

Regards Itsu

 

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Offline d3x0r

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #77 on: August 03, 2014, 06:45:57 PM »
I don't think that would make any sense to have the  pulldown(1k) and variable(0-.22n) cap at the other side of the 10ohm&10n.
The fysical location on the print does not confirm this, also the pulldown (1K) would be needed there right at the base when using an IRF (MOSFET)
which he mentions he would start using when he found the ferroresonance of the core.

The "2 transistor things" are in the 2e diagram in post #1 of this thread:

Regards Itsu
I concur that the pulldown should be on the mosfet side...
But; the physical layout of the board... the variable capacitor is not near the mosfet... and there's a resistor in parallel with it...


I'll check the other schematic; have been working from a simplified version apparently... but with the PNP/NPN part of the gate driver there too... would a pulldown even be needed?

Offline d3x0r

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #78 on: August 03, 2014, 06:55:19 PM »
Overlaying the two schematics and fading between them... other than slight alignment differences of a name and a couple traces... this is the only difference



Offline Void

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #79 on: August 03, 2014, 07:14:50 PM »
The 'flyback mode' or 'flyback effect' can be seen when just observing the primary with no secondary.
Basically all this mode is, is putting a small gap in the ferrite toroid core to increase the reluctance
of the ferrite core a bit. The result of doing this (adding the small gap) is that the back pulse created by the coil when the driving
pulse is quickly switched off climbs up to a higher voltage peak value. I am not sure of the actual physics of
why this works, but that is the end result of introducing the small gap in the ferrite core.

In CRT TV's, they need to have a  high voltage, and putting the small gap in the flyback core allows them to get a higher
voltage on the back pulse with less secondary windings. Having the gap gives a narrower pulse but a higher voltage
peak, so the area under the curve for the back pulse probably stays about the same, but maybe the core with no
gap is a bit more efficient.

I have attached two scope shots with my scope probe going from the Drain to the Source (ground), taken with the exact
same coil and the same pulse driver settings, but the first scope shot is with no gap in the core, and the second scope
shot is with about a 2mm gap in the core. There is a maximum gap width you can have before the voltage peaks start to fall off again.
I have 3VDC on the coil that is being pulsed, and the pulse width is about 20uS.

You can see that with the gap, the back pulse on the Drain climbs a lot higher in voltage, but it is a narrower pulse.
That is really all there is to the 'flyback effect'. The gap just causes the back pulse from the coil to go to a higher
peak voltage value, but the pulse is narrower.

There may be other differences in behavior of the ferrite core when using the gap as well, and you can see a bit of a
difference in the resulting waveform on the Drain of my FET when there is no gap, and when there is a gap.
In my particular circuit setup, with no gap, after the back pulse is done the Drain is close to 0V and then slowing
climbs back up to 3V. With the gap, the Drain actually goes a bit negative for a little over 2 microseconds, and then shoots
up very quickly to a bit over 3 V (i.e. there is some overshoot), and then drops back to 3V after a bit more. The number of bounces
you see after the initial back pulse on the Drain or Collector completes may just be due to small capacitances in the circuit in
conjunction with the coil giving some resonant bounces, and may not be of too much significance at all in regards to the
'ferromagnetic resonance' which Akula is talking about, but I am not certain.




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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #79 on: August 03, 2014, 07:14:50 PM »
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Offline itsu

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #80 on: August 03, 2014, 07:15:51 PM »
But; the physical layout of the board... the variable capacitor is not near the mosfet... and there's a resistor in parallel with it...


You are right, my mistake, it does seem that the variable capacitor is not near the transistor/MOSFET.
It looks more like it is used for tuning the frequency/duty cycle of the 7414 instead.

Regards Itsu

Offline Void

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #81 on: August 03, 2014, 07:21:52 PM »
... it does seem that the variable capacitor is not near the transistor/MOSFET.
It looks more like it is used for tuning the frequency/duty cycle of the 7414 instead.
Regards Itsu

Yes, my impression from watching the lantern 4 video is that Akula adjusted the variable capacitor to
increase the pulse width.


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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #81 on: August 03, 2014, 07:21:52 PM »
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Offline d3x0r

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #82 on: August 03, 2014, 07:27:03 PM »
and may not be of too much significance at all in regards to the
'ferromagnetic resonance' which Akula is talking about, but I am not certain.
In general I'd agree.... but the pulse goes to a LOW voltage... below ground in akula's....


I did some research on various magnetic effects... ferrimagnetic vs ferromagnetic


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrimagnetism  (Ferrimagnetism is exhibited by ferrites and magnetic garnets.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferromagnetism


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_magnetoresistance (would seem to apply to the conductivity of the thing, as opposed to an external effect)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossal_magnetoresistance (larger resistance; "Initially discovered in mixed-valence perovskite manganites in the 1950" )


perovskite - "Perovskite (pronunciation: pe'ɹovskaɪt) is a calcium titanium oxide mineral species composed of calcium titanate, with the chemical formula CaTiO3. The mineral was discovered in the Ural Mountains of Russia by Gustav Rose in 1839 and is named after Russian mineralogist Lev Perovski (1792–1856"


maybe the adjustable capacitance is before the PNP/NPN driver.. with a resistor across that... still haven't really identified all the parts... the color bands are obscured by the video encoding
--
Edit: Vertical lines on second pictuture I was trying to recreate the vertical division marks.
horizontal line is 0 level

Offline d3x0r

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #83 on: August 03, 2014, 07:34:31 PM »
You are right, my mistake, it does seem that the variable capacitor is not near the transistor/MOSFET.
It looks more like it is used for tuning the frequency/duty cycle of the 7414 instead.

Regards Itsu
then the schematic is still wrong :)
Maybe that's on the gates of the NPN/PNP drivers... I don't think it's part of the 7414
The effect is to extend the duty cycle.... and could be any number of places I suppose.
But there's only 2 adjustments; the variable resistor (frequency) and the variable cap (minor duty cycle extend)...
the schematic has 2 variable resistors... but they're not represented in any of the images....



Edit: I guess from relative positions at the top they are the same timescale...

Offline d3x0r

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #84 on: August 03, 2014, 07:38:17 PM »
Hmm... and the NPN/PNP are backwards... otherwise the emitter of the NPN will float and false-turnoff...
Edit: NEvermind; I guess they have to be that way...

maybe the point between them can buffer a negative voltage.

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #84 on: August 03, 2014, 07:38:17 PM »
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Offline Void

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #85 on: August 03, 2014, 07:39:30 PM »
There are two separate things called 'ferromagnetic resonance' and 'ferroresonance', and these are two quite different
effects. Both seem to be quite different than what Akula is talking about in his lantern 4 video, so that is
why I often put Akula's use of 'ferromagnetic resonance' or 'ferroresonance' in quotes, as he actually seems
to talking about a completely different effect in which the ferrite somehow returns more energy back into the
system than is being put into the system with the driving pulses...  :)


Offline Void

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #86 on: August 03, 2014, 08:15:47 PM »
Has anyone been able to determine for certain what frequency Akula was running his pulser circuit at
when he was showing his 'ferromagnetic resonance' effect on the scope, after making the adjustments? 
His scope shots were so blurry, it is really hard to see what time base setting his scope was set to...



Offline d3x0r

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #87 on: August 03, 2014, 08:33:16 PM »
Has anyone been able to determine for certain what frequency Akula was running his pulser circuit at
when he was showing his 'ferromagnetic resonance' effect on the scope, after making the adjustments? 
His scope shots were so blurry, it is really hard to see what time base setting his scope was set to...
last two shots were at 5us.  so pulse width about 22us total...   
the overall frequency is about ... 250-500Hz (2-4ms)   1ms would be 1Khz.


Offline Void

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #88 on: August 03, 2014, 08:43:16 PM »
last two shots were at 5us.  so pulse width about 22us total...   
the overall frequency is about ... 250-500Hz (2-4ms)   1ms would be 1Khz.

Thanks mate!

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Offline itsu

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #89 on: August 03, 2014, 08:43:18 PM »
last two shots were at 5us.  so pulse width about 22us total...   
the overall frequency is about ... 250-500Hz (2-4ms)   1ms would be 1Khz.

Agreed, the HD video rendering from post #2 confirms this,  250Hz:

Regards itsu

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #89 on: August 03, 2014, 08:43:18 PM »

 

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