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Author Topic: Akula eternal lantern 4  (Read 148389 times)

Offline d3x0r

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #60 on: July 31, 2014, 08:19:00 AM »
Lots of room inside that big electrolytic capacitor can.
ya? I got some hand crank flashlights for $3.25 that said 'no batteries'.  kind of a nicer crank than lasersaber's... because it's geared and has a bit of flywheel action.  (was worth it to me just for the crank part)  So I got them, and the body consists of the hand crank, and only a small area where circuit could be.  Upon disaseembly I found 1 resistor, 3 batteries (L1131 about 3/8"OD by 1/8") a switch and the LEDs.  Light ran for several hours on the batteries; but they will NEVER recharge from that hand crank... so after they are gone, the device is useless.  A good squeeze and the LEDs will light for.... 3 seconds maybe.... so not even something as clever as lasersaber's thing. 
But anyway... power source irrelavent....


Please produce the same wave form from a similar gate signal.
required(permitted) parts - a power source(anything you like), a coil(on a core, probably with an air gap), a transistor/fet, and any form of oscillator you like to drive the transistor/fet. required(permitted) connections Coil goes between power and the collector/source, ground goes to emitter/drain, oscillator goes to gate/base.  No further components to be connected to fet or coil.  (english translation, he is using a NPN, but will use a IRF after).
Measure on base and collector.
I'm be really generous and say : power source can be like a bench supply, oscillator can be a signal generator... the point isn't about power-in power-out, the point is the long rising signal on collector/source from negative voltage back to supply voltage.  long being at least 1ms.


second image scope probe zero line is shown, the below-zero is definatly shown... and the time scale is in 1ms per division... the next step down shown shortly after this is 4 digits uS time.
I know... it's all CGI! 
Until you do; please cease your propaganda on hidden power sources.
Edit: I guess I should include; power source cannot be current limited. (like one could make a similar graph with a milliwatt limited supply and a cap in parallel... but that wouldn't include the negative path.) The power supply must be able to supply at least enough current as the circuit is capable of using.

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #60 on: July 31, 2014, 08:19:00 AM »

Offline d3x0r

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #61 on: July 31, 2014, 08:35:16 AM »
@TK
I don't know if you came back and read quickly; after several minutes I added an edit.

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Offline d3x0r

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #62 on: July 31, 2014, 08:55:57 PM »
*sigh* thought I had source/drain down.  n channel source is ground, drain is to positive.. so reverse drain/source mentioned before; believe collector/emitter.


Quote
Please produce the same wave form from a similar gate signal.
required(permitted) parts - a power source(anything you like), a coil(on a core, probably with an air gap), a transistor/fet, and any form of oscillator you like to drive the transistor/fet. required(permitted) connections Coil goes between power and the collector/DRAIN, ground goes to emitter/SOURCE, oscillator goes to gate/base.  No further components to be connected to fet or coil.  (english translation, he is using a NPN, but will use a IRF after).
Measure on base and collector.
I'm be really generous and say : power source can be like a bench supply, oscillator can be a signal generator... the point isn't about power-in power-out, the point is the long rising signal on collector/source from negative voltage back to supply voltage.  long being at least 1ms... several hundred microseconds even.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #63 on: August 01, 2014, 01:26:20 AM »
Huh? I must not be understanding you. You want me to reproduce that particular waveform with some very restricted oscillator system? What is the relevance of that?  I and others have shown that the circuits, when finally settled on a schematic, work as described. The only discrepancy is the power supply, and there is always some discrepancy between the pictures of the actual device that is "self running" and the circuits we are building, in appearance or components or something. They will make the waveforms they make, when supplied with power! There is nothing in a particular scope trace that indicates where the power to the circuit is coming from. 
And you don't need to be able to recharge the hidden batteries! They just have to power the LEDs for a day, long enough to catch a Big Fish, which you and I know can be easily done. I can take my "akula" circuit with the two chips, put concealed batteries inside one of the capacitor cans, and it will easily run for a day, happily making its burst oscillation waveforms all the while.

I am happy to cooperate with you to perform any testing you like, but I would like to understand the rationale. I respect you and I think that you are in earnest and that your conclusions, more than those of many I encounter, are data-driven rather than theory-driven, and I like that. My own experience with low voltage boost converters and oscillators and JTs and resonant phenomena and wireless power and stage magic and cynical fraudsters makes me conclude that there is trickery in what Akula presents, more sophisticated trickery than we have seen in a long time, and this makes it very entertaining. I have not been able to _disprove_ this hypothesis. However I have, to my satisfaction, disproven the hypothesis that the circuit I built, which makes _identical_ waveforms to the Akula-demonstrated version, is capable of self-running. SO either the waveforms have nothing to do with self running and both self runners and non self runners can make identical waveforms, OR.... neither unit is actually self-running and Akula's must be powered somehow. Possibilities are: deliberate wireless power to a tuned circuit (which I have demonstrated); Inadvertent pickup of strong EM in the background (also demonstrated); concealed batteries (also demonstrated in one form, soon to be demonstrated in another form) and so on. My own efforts to disprove these hypotheses can't go much further without access to a "known" self-runner, and we can be damned sure that Akula isn't going to send us one.

Enough for now, carry on, and if you can explain what you really are looking for in the "waveform challenge" I'll see if I can oblige. (I can't tell from your screen even if your scope channel is AC or DC coupled, much less see enough to try to replicate the waveform. Can't your scope do screen-saves?)


Offline d3x0r

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #64 on: August 01, 2014, 07:53:42 AM »
Huh? I must not be understanding you. You want me to reproduce that particular waveform with some very restricted oscillator system?

Enough for now, carry on, and if you can explain what you really are looking for in the "waveform challenge" I'll see if I can oblige. (I can't tell from your screen even if your scope channel is AC or DC coupled, much less see enough to try to replicate the waveform. Can't your scope do screen-saves?)
Not a restricted oscillator.... It may take a few back and forths to get this across... so I'll start with a general diagram.
I cannot replicate the state although void nearly did http://www.overunity.com/12736/kapanadze-cousin-dally-free-energy/msg412287/#msg412287

All I have to go on is low def videos... and there's more detail available in motion.
http://youtu.be/rbyJKRuzFLw (22:01 length, with english overlays)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-EmSMOYXVc  (original;repost by akulavids; 22:01 length so should match 1:1)

Scope identification from video: Atten 1062CML (60Mhz); while looking for a user manual, most images of 1062 models are actually 1162 model.
http://micromir.ucoz.ru/Oscil/Atten/ADS1000_User_Manual.pdf
Scope is set to DC on CH1 and CH2

Q1/M1 is a NPN transistor or N-Channel Mosfet
L1 is a coil on a core
L2 is wound on the core also but at the first part is not connected to anything; the output circuit is not built on the board in the beginning of the video  (http://youtu.be/S-EmSMOYXVc?t=3m12s 3:12)
(included for completeness)
P.S. - Power supply should be voltage limited but not current limited (although I know that most bench power supplies have a current limit feature that could make some of the output, and have some limit anyway, it's a short pulse so it shouldn't be a lot of current)
Osc. - Oscillator.  Short duty cycle square wave.

Details that may matter; the rise is very short; the fall on blue channel is also very short (3ns rise time on base).   22ns fall time on collector

High res image (didn't want to break forum)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B812EYiKwtkkVFN4MUQwVmVtZ1k

---
Input voltage is probably 12V
both probes are probably set at 10x without setting 10x on scope.
Akula uses a hex-inverter chip to generate the oscillator, which has nearly a fixed duty cycle.  There is an adjustable capacitor from the gate to ground that is adjusted around 7:20 in the video.
But at this point I'm more interested in how to get the collector to go below zero and stay there for a long time.  (I didn't mark in the T2 block; at time 2 after 7:20 the length of the rize at the end, but it is in the scale of several hundred to 3ms in length).
Since there's no other component around the coil, if the coil at the collector was low, it should nearly instantly satisfy to the power supply and oscillate up; there is no oscillation... The only other way I can see generating this signal would be to current limit the power supply, so the collector doesn't go back up because all potential would be drained from the positive supply... but the power supply is soldered into the circuit (0:12 - 1:32 at which point he flips the board over)... and it has no issue recovering before T2 (adjusting the gate capacitance... assuming to a higher value)

http://www.overunity.com/14687/akula-eternal-lantern-4/  (link to page 1, post 1, schematics here)

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #64 on: August 01, 2014, 07:53:42 AM »
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Offline d3x0r

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #65 on: August 01, 2014, 08:15:53 AM »
Here's a more complete circuit between the oscillator and the gate, since the capacitance/resistor will matter.
Can probably be fixed values... but the 0-220 will probably have to be changed between various fixed values.

Offline itsu

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #66 on: August 02, 2014, 07:32:18 PM »

Quote
---
Input voltage is probably 12V

Does this picture not shows that he uses 3.1V input?

Regards Itsu

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #66 on: August 02, 2014, 07:32:18 PM »
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Offline d3x0r

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #67 on: August 02, 2014, 07:38:03 PM »
Does this picture not shows that he uses 3.1V input?

Regards Itsu
ya; was thinking about that later.... when I was looking the blow-up of the DC status.... 2.0V... I Guess it's about a divisiion and a half. It woulda beeen like 24V, but then the gate voltage didn't make sense... so ya makes sense he's testing at 3.1.
so probes are at 1x.


Offline itsu

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #68 on: August 02, 2014, 08:56:10 PM »
Here's a more complete circuit between the oscillator and the gate, since the capacitance/resistor will matter.
Can probably be fixed values... but the 0-220 will probably have to be changed between various fixed values.

I have been testing with this diagram, but no way to get the negative signal on the collector.
Using MJE13005 and MJE13007 with 9, 12 and latest 3V input.
Input pulse used is an all positive 1 to 4V amplitude, 0.3 to 20% duty cycle, 100Hz to 3MHz frequency signal from my FG.
The 220pF variable capacitor shows no effect at all.

The below screenshot is taken at 3.1V input, at 15Khz with 15% duty cycle

Yellow = base signal
Blue    = collector signal
Purple = FG input at the 10nF/10 Ohm cap/resistor
Green  = current probe output on plus input voltage lead (set at 20mA/div.).

Regards Itsu

Offline Void

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #69 on: August 02, 2014, 10:27:50 PM »
Thanks for that Itsu. I have not been able to reproduce the original strange waveforms I got
when I first tried some testing looking for an effect similar to what Akula shows in his Lantern 4 video.
Maybe what I saw was just due to some glitch or instability with my pulser board. Still testing with this however.
All the best.



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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #69 on: August 02, 2014, 10:27:50 PM »
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Offline d3x0r

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #70 on: August 02, 2014, 10:54:35 PM »
Well... I was searching for 'flyback pulses' and various similar things... 'transformer gap pulse' but found no images that relate (except the one I posted on this thread :) )


The first pulse comes back while the base is on... and there's a definate dip in the voltage on the base as a result of the pulse...


Duty cycle will have to be longer than 20us

Offline d3x0r

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #71 on: August 02, 2014, 10:56:42 PM »
Just setup with my flyback core and mobius coil to see if I could replicate; I was only getting a large pulse when the base turned off... change back to a mpsa18 and had to make the pulse longer than 20-30us to get a pulse while the base was still on... but no negative dip


Offline d3x0r

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #72 on: August 02, 2014, 11:56:03 PM »

Offline itsu

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #73 on: August 03, 2014, 12:18:49 PM »
Well... I was searching for 'flyback pulses' and various similar things... 'transformer gap pulse' but found no images that relate (except the one I posted on this thread :) )


The first pulse comes back while the base is on... and there's a definate dip in the voltage on the base as a result of the pulse...


Duty cycle will have to be longer than 20us

Not sure why you are calling them  'flyback pulses'  as in the diagram in reply #65 i understand you (and i) are only using the primary
coil with the secondary not connected to anything (i did load it sometimes with 470 Ohm resistor to get rid of the many ringing signals)

Allthough i have wound the prim./sec. coils on a flyback core, to my understanding, there is no flyback like action going because we have no diode etc. connected to the secondary.

Regards Itsu


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Offline d3x0r

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #74 on: August 03, 2014, 04:51:34 PM »
Not sure why you are calling them  'flyback pulses'  as in the diagram in reply #65 i understand you (and i) are only using the primary
coil with the secondary not connected to anything (i did load it sometimes with 470 Ohm resistor to get rid of the many ringing signals)

Allthough i have wound the prim./sec. coils on a flyback core, to my understanding, there is no flyback like action going because we have no diode etc. connected to the secondary.

Regards Itsu
Well... I don't know what else to call them....
In my video i didn't have a secondary on the core... just the primary...
I also tried for 'melnichenko pulse'
but it didn't seem to matter if the core was closed(no gap) or open.


It's kinda a chicken and egg.  Although when I zoom in it seems the base starts to go low, and the collector goes high... so I dunno maybe it's the inductance of the 2-3inch wire I have to the emitter (base?)....
was testing at 4.0V.


... so looking at details of akula's board... he has the power supply with a long wire soldered to a large-ish capacitor...
Hmm schematic must be wrong... the pulldown(1k) and variable(0-.22n) cap must be on the other side of the 10ohm&10n to the base...
*sigh* and there's 2 transistor things that aren't represented...


(image 5) at the chinese demo, he got rid of what was labeled C28 is replaced with a diode
going to work on this sketch a little more; in the beginning clip he didn't have the diodes...

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Re: Akula eternal lantern 4
« Reply #74 on: August 03, 2014, 04:51:34 PM »

 

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