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Author Topic: The So-Called Don Smith Generator  (Read 56178 times)

Offline Skysabre

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The So-Called Don Smith Generator
« on: April 29, 2014, 09:20:11 AM »
Hi Friends,

Here's a pdf file on the Don Smith Generator. Please look this over and tell me if this is worth trying or I should move elsewhere. This is more expensive than the Hendershot Generator which unfortunately does not work, despite the circuit variations that we tried. So I'd like to now if I should spend on this or not.

This manual is so poorly organized it gets me confused, or maybe because I have no background in electronics. Maybe along the way, if we decide to do this, the more knowledgeable among you can also teach me a few things.

So first things first: Is this worth a try? If not, I have another project in mind.

Skysabre

(Admin:  I had to take the PDF File down due to a copyright claim...)
« Last Edit: November 03, 2014, 02:36:33 PM by hartiberlin »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline gyulasun

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Re: The So-Called Don Smith Generator
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2014, 09:32:38 PM »
Hi Skysabre,

I went through the pdf file you altruistically uploaded.  I am strongly "amazed" by seeing the wiring diagram shown in pdf Page 27: they use voltage divider resistors to match the alleged 8kV output voltage (stored in the 2uF capacitor) to the input of an off-the-shelf 12V or 24V DC to 110V AC power inverter. Using resistors for dividing voltages makes sense when reasonably small currents are involved because of the unavoidable heat loss in the resistors.

Let's do some simple calculations backwards,  let's choose a power inverter which is able to output just 2kW at 110V AC, ok? Then let's have its own efficiency, say, 90%, so the input DC power to it should be 1.1 x 2kW=2.2kW i.e. 10% higher.

Now if this inverter receives 24V DC input (let's say), then the input DC current demand is about I=2.2kW/24V=91.6A.

Now lets calculate the resistor values for dividing the 8kV DC to 24V. Here is a link I used, it also calculates the power loss in the two resistors:  http://www.bowdenshobbycircuits.info/r2.htm 

Using the example described in the text for finding the series resistance needed for a LED as a sample, I entered for battery voltage 8000, for current 91.6 and for Vout 24, I got 87 Ohm for R1 (and R2 would be represented by the 24V input of the inverter) but with this value the dissipated power in R1 would amount to 730.6kW....  the idea to use resistors to drop the 8000V to 24V is ABSURD, INSANE to say the least. And there is no any other suggestion to reduce the 8kV (or whatever kV coming from the LC tank via the diodes to the 2uF storage capacitor) to 24V or 12V.

The other thing is that while it may be possible to store a few kW power in a resonant LC tank circuit (it would need a coil and a capacitor with extremely low loss i.e. very high Q) but when directly loading such high Q resonant circuit, the circulating power in it would get reduced just because the external load reduces the high Q (the resonant AC impedance of such a high Q LC tank may range from several ten to several hundred kOhm and shunting it say with the 87 Ohm resistor via the inverter input, the high AC impedance gets killed, so the kV voltage reduces accordingly, there is no 'juice' left in the tank to feed the inverter. AND there is no any high wattage resistor shown in the pictures, which would imply they really used them to reduce the kV output...

Now no wonder why this pdf file contains NO any measurement results done by those 'compiling' it. It is a "pathwork", a "botch", taken text and pictures from some sources, and sorry to say I consider it as a hoax.
At other forums and also here, several members attempted to replicate Don Smith setups but nobody succeeded so far (or did not report, that is) and even Don Smith never showed any working device, only talked about the kW output and showed the assembled boards with those components like in the pictures in the pdf file.

Regardless of Don Smith or from this pdf file, the problem to be solved would be to find a circuit topology which does not reduce an LC tank resonant impedance too much and dissipates only a reasonable amount of power while dividing the kVs to a lower more workable value.  This would be challange circuit to design and build for sure, still strongly assuming that the input power to the LC tank could be kept at a lower value than that of the output power received from THE circuit.

Gyula


Offline Skysabre

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Re: The So-Called Don Smith Generator
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2014, 03:57:02 AM »
Thank you Gyulasun!

You saved me a lot of trouble and expense. So I'm moving on to other possibilities, and maybe i can ask you: do you know of any possibilities I can work on? Name a website or any lead, and I'll look it over.

I just want to help this planet, and I have a bit of time in my hands.

Skysabre

Offline rc3po

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Re: The So-Called Don Smith Generator
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2014, 06:34:16 AM »
Hi Skysabre,
I don't know if you saw my comment on your thread, "Has anyone replicated the hendershot generator".
www.free-energy-devices.com is a good site. It also has a good Electronics tutorial - Chapter 12.


Offline gyulasun

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Re: The So-Called Don Smith Generator
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2014, 07:02:06 PM »
Hi Skysabre,

Well, it is not easy to answer your question...  I think if you take a thorough look and reading at this link below, especially member 'erfinder'  posts and videos, then possibly you would be on a good track:
http://www.energyscienceforum.com/showthread.php?t=1611 

The thread started with a question on Bedini DVD Nr 25 but No need to buy the DVD as you later realize because the topic turns to a pulse motor-like setup as erfinder shows. It does need a hands on building and experience, maybe not the best for the not so experienced but I believe the progress for anyone is given and open.  Just read it all  over and decide,  unfortunately the uploaded pictures can only be seen when you become a member there and log in.  (notice that erfinder does not claim anything)

Unfortunately, I am not aware of ANY thread where a real device, capable of giving extra output over the input is shown with real measurements.  Speculations, fakes, hoaxes rule... or greedyness to share. 

There was the Bedini Ferris Wheel demo at their conference some years ago, see here http://www.energeticforum.com/john-bedini/6786-bedini-ferris-wheel-regauging-motor.html   but I do not know that those who rebuilt it whether got extra output or not. 

I would also suggest to study Ben's motor here http://www.overunity.com/14377/the-thomas-motor/msg391150/#msg391150
it may give good results (the possibilities are inherent in that setup I think) and Ben is still working on it.

Good luck,
Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The So-Called Don Smith Generator
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2014, 07:02:06 PM »
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Offline MenofFather

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Re: The So-Called Don Smith Generator
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2014, 07:06:32 PM »

So first things first: Is this worth a try?

Skysabre
Maybe worth, maybe not, that is another model?

Offline mscoffman

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Re: The So-Called Don Smith Generator
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2014, 09:45:43 PM »
Skysabre,

If you find a system like this Don Smith system that you build and find it is OU
and you are willing to produce the input/output power table for that is a least
1500Watts in excess OU or more maximum. I would be willing to trade a balance
of system design for that design information and link it to a either household
inverter front-end or a portable generator type front end. For example an 8KVDC
at 20amp (measured) continuous output power supply rating linked to an
inverter would be no problem.

You will never find the complete balance of system design for a system that
requires any kind of complex controls. The best you could find in that case
would be to build a start/stop control with constant power production capability
or stop and a large and expensive battery bank capacity.

Keep this offer (by agreement only) in mind and you will see.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The So-Called Don Smith Generator
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2014, 09:45:43 PM »
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Offline Jeg

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Re: The So-Called Don Smith Generator
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2014, 05:43:07 PM »
Hi Skysabre,

I went through the pdf file you altruistically uploaded.  I am strongly "amazed" by seeing the wiring diagram shown in pdf Page 27: they use voltage divider resistors to match the alleged 8kV output voltage (stored in the 2uF capacitor) to the input of an off-the-shelf 12V or 24V DC to 110V AC power inverter. Using resistors for dividing voltages makes sense when reasonably small currents are involved because of the unavoidable heat loss in the resistors.

Let's do some simple calculations backwards,  let's choose a power inverter which is able to output just 2kW at 110V AC, ok? Then let's have its own efficiency, say, 90%, so the input DC power to it should be 1.1 x 2kW=2.2kW i.e. 10% higher.

Now if this inverter receives 24V DC input (let's say), then the input DC current demand is about I=2.2kW/24V=91.6A.

Now lets calculate the resistor values for dividing the 8kV DC to 24V. Here is a link I used, it also calculates the power loss in the two resistors:  http://www.bowdenshobbycircuits.info/r2.htm 

Using the example described in the text for finding the series resistance needed for a LED as a sample, I entered for battery voltage 8000, for current 91.6 and for Vout 24, I got 87 Ohm for R1 (and R2 would be represented by the 24V input of the inverter) but with this value the dissipated power in R1 would amount to 730.6kW....  the idea to use resistors to drop the 8000V to 24V is ABSURD, INSANE to say the least. And there is no any other suggestion to reduce the 8kV (or whatever kV coming from the LC tank via the diodes to the 2uF storage capacitor) to 24V or 12V.

The other thing is that while it may be possible to store a few kW power in a resonant LC tank circuit (it would need a coil and a capacitor with extremely low loss i.e. very high Q) but when directly loading such high Q resonant circuit, the circulating power in it would get reduced just because the external load reduces the high Q (the resonant AC impedance of such a high Q LC tank may range from several ten to several hundred kOhm and shunting it say with the 87 Ohm resistor via the inverter input, the high AC impedance gets killed, so the kV voltage reduces accordingly, there is no 'juice' left in the tank to feed the inverter. AND there is no any high wattage resistor shown in the pictures, which would imply they really used them to reduce the kV output...

Now no wonder why this pdf file contains NO any measurement results done by those 'compiling' it. It is a "pathwork", a "botch", taken text and pictures from some sources, and sorry to say I consider it as a hoax.
At other forums and also here, several members attempted to replicate Don Smith setups but nobody succeeded so far (or did not report, that is) and even Don Smith never showed any working device, only talked about the kW output and showed the assembled boards with those components like in the pictures in the pdf file.

Regardless of Don Smith or from this pdf file, the problem to be solved would be to find a circuit topology which does not reduce an LC tank resonant impedance too much and dissipates only a reasonable amount of power while dividing the kVs to a lower more workable value.  This would be challange circuit to design and build for sure, still strongly assuming that the input power to the LC tank could be kept at a lower value than that of the output power received from THE circuit.

Gyula

Gyula and others

I already made a lot of experiments and i have learn a lot of things around this stuff. But even with the most well designed secondary, i still cant see any OU results. I fooled my self many times as i wanted to believe it, but things are not so good like in the way it presented to be. Perhaps there are other secrets here like NMR as elementsix told us. Or perhaps there is something else which i cant recognize it.

Can someone help to find the NMR freq of copper in combination with the local magnetic field? As i remember gold's nmr frequency under earths magnetic field is very low... 30-36Hz!!! Perhaps element six can define his statement to help us a little more. I dont know how low freqs like that can help.



 

Offline gyulasun

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Re: The So-Called Don Smith Generator
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2014, 11:04:06 PM »
Hi Jeg,

I am not an expert on NMR,  unfortunately and I recommend to turn to member verpies in a Personal Message if you like, he is an expert on it.  of course element six may also help.

Gyula



Offline Jeg

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Re: The So-Called Don Smith Generator
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2014, 09:39:51 AM »
Hi Jeg,

I am not an expert on NMR,  unfortunately and I recommend to turn to member verpies in a Personal Message if you like, he is an expert on it.  of course element six may also help.

Gyula

Thanks a lot Gyula
Even it looks unlikely to me, i should try it.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The So-Called Don Smith Generator
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2014, 09:39:51 AM »
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Offline Skysabre

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Re: The So-Called Don Smith Generator
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2014, 09:42:07 AM »
Rather than start a new thread, I'm placing a new site and possible project here for looking into.

http://teslasforsustainablesociety.wordpress.com/2012/11/04/canadians-electrical-generator/

I find the last part by Silverhealtheu possible doable by a beginner, but my question is how do we make a drive circuit that can strongly pulse the Drive Coil?
This looks logical from where I sit, but then I'm just a dummy in your ranks.

Please just point me in the right direction and I'll move!

Skysabre

Offline gyulasun

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Re: The So-Called Don Smith Generator
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2014, 06:05:38 PM »
Hi Skysabre,

This is a pulse generator based on the NE555 timer, with variable frequency and duty cycle control
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Ch10/Fig63.gif 

and this is a possible MOSFET switch (driven from the output of the above circuit) to pulse the drive coil (you connect the coil as the load is indicated, the coil will be the load between the Drain pin and the + supply):
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Ch10/Fig65.gif 

Use less than 12V supply first to drive the coil and experiment with varying the frequency and duty cycle of the timer while monitoring the output (pickup) coils. Use a full wave bridge and a puffer capacitor at the ouput of the pickups and a load resistor of say any value between 33 - 100 Ohm. A DC voltmeter across it would nicely monitor your efforts with the tuning pots.
(This is where the schematics are: http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapt10.html )
Can you now move?  8)

Gyula


Offline rc3po

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Re: The So-Called Don Smith Generator
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2014, 08:31:08 PM »
Hi Skysabre,

This is a pulse generator based on the NE555 timer, with variable frequency and duty cycle control
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Ch10/Fig63.gif 

and this is a possible MOSFET switch (driven from the output of the above circuit) to pulse the drive coil (you connect the coil as the load is indicated, the coil will be the load between the Drain pin and the + supply):
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Ch10/Fig65.gif 

Use less than 12V supply first to drive the coil and experiment with varying the frequency and duty cycle of the timer while monitoring the output (pickup) coils. Use a full wave bridge and a puffer capacitor at the ouput of the pickups and a load resistor of say any value between 33 - 100 Ohm. A DC voltmeter across it would nicely monitor your efforts with the tuning pots.
(This is where the schematics are: http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapt10.html )
Can you now move?  8)

Gyula
I've told him about that website a couple of times already and also that it has a good electronics tutorial in Chapter 12, and he just won't listen for some reason!!

Offline Skysabre

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Re: The So-Called Don Smith Generator
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2014, 03:00:22 AM »
Thanks, friends!

I'll work on this. Buying some of the 555 and condensers, and the steel bar today. I'm ordering the neodymium magnets from Amazon, having a relative bring it here by end-May.

What wire size do I use? I have some 28 ga. here. Will compute length to get 1.2 ohms hopefully to run 10 A to produce 120W on 12 VDC. Are these parameters okay? or do I go smaller? You will know better.

I'll post a new thread when I start. Thankfully, I see nothing in here that will kill me. :D

Skyabre


Offline gyulasun

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Re: The So-Called Don Smith Generator
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2014, 08:19:05 PM »
Hi Skysabre,

My opinion on the steel bar is that you had better use ferrite rod instead because a 1" OD solid steel bar will surely have strong eddy current losses  even at 20-30Hz switching frequency  (I do not understand why steel bar was proposed at all). So try to obtain ferrite rods or laminated "I" cores lined up in 1 foot or so length (I do not think the length is so critical).  Here is a link to ferrite rods (sold only within  USA though) but on ebay you can buy also (but not as big size as this one):
http://www.stormwise.com/page26.htm   and choose the permeability, u=2000 type.

On the awg 28 wire size: I find it a bit small OD for 10 Amper, but may be good for a start, once you already have it.

By the way if you start studying some electronics, I offer to look up series RL circuits (i.e. when a coil is connected in series with a resistor) because then you learn that in pulsed (or in AC) circuits the DC resistance, R of a coil is only part of the total impedance, Z, of a coil and the L inductance of the coil you are going to wind will also influence the current in the function of the switching frequency.  So the higher you go up in switching frequency, the higher the coil resultant impedance will be, with decreasing current consumption from the same 12V source in the same circuit setup.

By the way, I would not target for 10 Amper, but much less to explore the behaviour and the output power. The 10 A will toast your coil in a very short time if you really let it flow.  The starting consideration for such coils is AmperTurns i.e. the number of turns for the coil multiplied by the current. You get the same excitation when you use 10A for say a 40 turns coil or you use 1A for a 400 turns coil. And at what supply voltage would 1A current flow in a 400 turns coil depends mainly on its impedance (R+XL) at a given frequency and you then have to choose the supply voltage too.  And the AmperTurns needed will mainly depend of the strength of the magnets.

The switching FET, BUZ350 has a 200V drain source breakdown voltage, perhaps just perhaps just enough not burn from the coil back spikes created at every switch-off event.  Here is its data sheet: 
http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheet/siemens/BUZ350.pdf  the problem with this type is that it has become obsolote.

I suggest using at least 300V (or higher) drain source voltage devices instead, like
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/STP46NF30/497-13442-ND/3770035
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/IXTP36N30P/IXTP36N30P-ND/1995085 or 400V devices like

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/FDP24N40/FDP24N40-ND/1814539 or
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SIHG25N40D-E3/SIHG25N40D-E3-ND/3458163 

Of course there are other choices from other sellers too. 

Good luck.
Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The So-Called Don Smith Generator
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2014, 08:19:05 PM »

 

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