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Author Topic: Propellantless electro-magnetic propulsion  (Read 9792 times)

Offline dustinthewind

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Propellantless electro-magnetic propulsion
« on: April 08, 2014, 08:39:06 PM »
I have a patent pending for a form of propellant-less EM propulsion that even my professor thought should work in his opinion after it was patent pending.  It is fully under my name but I am tired of the system and am thinking of publishing it for the public.  I am wondering how I would go about that.  Is it possible for me to take my patent pending and convert it to a general public licence?


I after some simulation effects it looks like the propulsion effect may increase per current squared but may possibly be even larger if some other effects are there.  It could possibly be dangerous and projects radiation out one end.  One would think that all the propulsion you would get is that of the radiation but I am getting forces estimated that seem much larger than just the radiation. 


Anyways my real question is about publishing my patent pending under the public license instead. 



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Propellantless electro-magnetic propulsion
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2014, 08:48:06 PM »
Well, I for one am intensely interested in such matters, so I would encourage you to go ahead and show what you've got. Your pending patent establishes priority and intellectual property already. I am not completely sure, but I think that now that you have applied and are in "pending" status you can talk about the claims of your invention without falling into the "previously published" category. You should check on this with your patent attorney, then go ahead and "tell all" right here on this forum.

Offline dustinthewind

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Re: Propellantless electro-magnetic propulsion
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2014, 08:54:21 PM »
Well that is a thought.  I'll ask about that.  My reason for thinking of publishing under the public license is because once my patent pending expires I likely won't have the money to patent it and it could be taken by the company that did the patent pending for me possibly.  If I could transfer it then it would ensure it would be made available for public use. 

Offline dustinthewind

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Re: Propellantless electro-magnetic propulsion
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2014, 08:58:37 PM »
Well it is patent pending and I guess it doesn't matter to post it so here it goes. 

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Propellantless electro-magnetic propulsion
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2014, 10:00:39 PM »
Hmm... that's interesting, and somewhat different from what I expected, having seen some things in field before. Do you mind if I show this to "a friend of ours" who is truly an expert in the field of propellantless em propulsion? I'd like to get his opinion.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Propellantless electro-magnetic propulsion
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2014, 10:00:39 PM »
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Offline dustinthewind

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Re: Propellantless electro-magnetic propulsion
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2014, 10:13:11 PM »
Yeah of course.  It is too late for me to retract it now that I have posted it online.  You have my permission however, and thanks for asking. 

Offline dustinthewind

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Re: Propellantless electro-magnetic propulsion
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2014, 06:17:59 AM »
I thought I would leave one warning about the device.  As I said before it would emanate radiation in the opposite direction as the force of propulsion.  With each successive layer that radiation electric field should grow larger making it more and more difficult to maintain the current in the next layer requiring more work but also providing more force because the magnetic field associated with the traveling electric field should be growing larger also. 


My worry is that this growing electric field per layer may eventually take on properties of ionizing radiation even though we are only using say microwave radiation.  Caution may possibly be in order.   

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Re: Propellantless electro-magnetic propulsion
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2014, 06:17:59 AM »
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Offline dustinthewind

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Re: Propellantless electro-magnetic propulsion
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2014, 07:12:48 AM »

A snippet from my as of yet unaccepted and so incomplete thesis  :'(


(14-15) The high frequency solenoid (see figure 7.2) configuration builds off the basic idea of the invention in figure 7.1. The solenoids are spaced 1/4 wavelength λ along axis z through which ever medium the radiation propagates. The wires are wound back and forth tightly along axis y so that each wire fold is 1/2 the wavelength of the current passing through the wire. As the radiation propagates to the second layer of the solenoid then the second layer will be working against the electric field of the radiation from above, requiring more voltage to move the current in the proper direction. There will now be an attractive force rather than a repulsive force induced by the radiation because of the direction of the current in the second layer of the solenoid. This solenoid working against the electric field of the radiation from the solenoid above it will be emitting its own radiation, adding to the radiation from the solenoid above it and this radiation will continue to the third lower layer of high frequency solenoid which is 180 degrees out of phase with the top high frequency solenoid layer.


On the other hand, the radiation moving up in the direction of the force induced by the high frequency solenoids tends to be canceled out because the current is not induced to move against the force of the radiation but rather with it. It then appears the propellant is radiation but this remains in question by the author. The electric field of radiation emitted from this type of thruster may become rather large with increasing layers, so caution is

recommended.


A simulation of the intensity of the magnetic field was simulated in Femm4.0rfor a microwave configuration (0.5cm=λ) at 2 amps current (see figure 7.3). The solenoid configuration is such that wire thickness is 1mm and spacing between wire folds is 1mm.  The solenoid layers are spaced 0.5cm apart for the 1/4 λ separation. This corresponds to a solenoid frequency of 3.00E8(m/s)/0.02(m)=15×109Hz (cycles/sec) or 15GHz, where 0.005m*4=.02m. An estimation of the Lorentz force (J x B) on a single wire element in Femm4.0r was estimated to be 1.8E-5N. Femm4.0r gives the block volume as 1×10−8m3 and with a block length of 0.001m square we have a our element length of 1cm experiencing a force of 1.8×10−5N. Let us make a device that is 10cm×10cm×10cm that you could hold in your hand. Our element size going into the screen is 1cm long so we would have 10 elements along the y axis. on the x axis our element spacing is 0.002m so 0.1/0.002=50 elements. Our z axis element spacing is 0.005m so 0.1/0.005=20. This gives us an element volume of 10×50×20=1×104 elements. This gives us an overall force of 1×104×1.8×10−5N=0.18N of force. An estimate using Femm4.0r of the power loss was estimated to be 0.00069 Watts per element so overall power loss should be around 1×104×0.00069=6.9W. The author remains speculative that 6.9W of radiation could possibly provide this much propulsion and it would help to build a prototype to be sure it would provide propulsion. An estimate of the force induced if the current is doubled indicates the force increases directly with the square of the current. Current could be pushed upwards using superconductor configurations but it may be just as effective to increase the device volume or use a shorter wavelength of radiation. On the other hand Femm4.0r does not simulate the magnetic field of the propagating radiation and if the author is correct in assuming that radiation is the sum of the magnetic field that has not yet reached its final destination (see equation 1.18) from infinity to the distance from the magnetic source then the current moving through magnetic field of the radiation may also provide additional propulsion. Essentially the device propels itself using space/time deformation and delay of information about the electric field, or in other words the magnetic field.

Offline dustinthewind

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Re: Propellantless electro-magnetic propulsion
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2014, 05:51:19 AM »
I have been thinking about this and I would like to add that the device also has a capacitance effect that is delayed by a phase of 90 degrees.  That is when the current stops there is charge separated.  This seems to provide propulsion in the opposite direction and I fear it may cancel the effect to the point where the only propulsion is the radiation and radiation doesn't provide much propulsion.  On the other hand we have current moving through the radiation which is a much more intense magnetic field than just the plain magnetic field of a constant current so with many layers and due the light speed delay of information we might have more force than expected.  However, due the light speed delay of information the capacitative effect also seems to build up.  If only there was a way to cancel out one or the other effect.  Maybe not with this exact configuration. 


If the device dosn't produce propulsion it may still be useful as a generator of pulses of high energy radiation? 

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Propellantless electro-magnetic propulsion
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2014, 01:01:17 AM »
This is interesting to me.  I have been thinking lately about why, since we have already magneto-hydrodynamic drive for use in water, why this could not be done in air...or even space?  I mean, propellers and impellers work both in water and air so why not this type of drive system?

I do not know enough about it either way but it just seems to make sense to me.

Thanks for sharing.

Bill

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Re: Propellantless electro-magnetic propulsion
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2014, 01:01:17 AM »
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Offline dustinthewind

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Re: Propellantless electro-magnetic propulsion
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2014, 04:08:53 AM »
Yes Pirate I believe that if we were successful that what we would be trying to do is push against space time using the electric/magnetic field.  It is interesting because people talk about space time waves (gravity waves) and that they are different than electro/magnetic waves (radiation) but the magnetic field is seemingly just the electric field combined with space time relativity so there seems to be a connection possibly?  well I ramble now but I think you might be right. 

Offline dustinthewind

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Re: Propellantless electro-magnetic propulsion
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2015, 08:21:38 PM »
It looks like the cat is out of the bag so to speak.  I found this patent on the uspto.gov website.  It looks like they beat me to the punch and they did a good job of it.  I'm eager to hear of test results on their patent # 8,459,002[/font].  I attached the file for those curious but it can be looked up also.  The estimates suggest it could beat the most powerful ion engine by orders of magnitude but I've still to see test results.  I am optimistic the effect should be there.  I've been mulling over another effect that might be useful and even more powerful but as it stands this looks promising. 

 

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