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Author Topic: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger  (Read 22696 times)

Offline antigrav89

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2017, 11:11:08 AM »
Although I have only just joined this forum I have been concerned with OU science for the past 16 years.  Among other things I have researched the Hans Coler devices and being in the UK I have tracked down everything I can find in the UK National Archives about Coler.  Actually Coler appears to be Unruh's assistant and the real inventor was Unruh.  Unruh demonstrated a Stromerzeuger in public in 1920, but after being arrested as a fraudster he seems to have used Coler as his front man.  After Unruh's death Coler continued with the devices but in my opinion he was out of his depth technically which could explain why he was not successful in replicating the devices after the War.  I have copies of the 1920 newspaper articles, copies of all the National Archive material, a copy of the British Intelligence report and Coler's death certificate (he died here in the UK).

In the corrected Hudson letter, in your article, we can find the following paragraph :
 
"During the four weeks the apparatus was partly or wholly reconnected several times in an endeavour
to re-discover the correct connections of the polarity of the magnets relative to the flow of current and of
the chirality of the winding to which it was connected, the direction of the magnetic field through the
flat coils and copper plates and the manner in which these circuits were linked through the coils on the
electromagnets
, these being the chief variables."
 
This letter also refers to the B.I.O.S Report 1043, item N°31 in which we can find, in a paragraph giving a short description of the apparratus in the Appendix IV (report by Hans Coler and Dr Heinz Frohlich) , the following sentences :
 
"Figure 1 shows diagrammatically and in plan these interwound parts (anchor in red, field in
green, directing circuit in blue).
Figure 2 the so called basic diagram, shows the connections between these different
parts
. This basic diagram shows the conditions necessary for self-interruption."
 
These two figures are absent from the unclassified document but one can reasonably assume they were present in the original classified document, because, had they not been, then why having mentionned them in the report?
 
So, if the informations about the connections between the different parts of the device were available in a detailed diagram in the B.I.O.S. report, why would they have to re-discover them?
This seems to me somewhat incoherent.
Do you have an explanation about this point?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Smudge

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #46 on: October 23, 2017, 12:33:59 PM »
Hi Antigrav89,

I have no reason to believe that the original classified B.I.O.S report 1043 did have copies of the figures mentioned in that appendix.  I have seen two surviving copies of that B.I.O.S. report, one is at the Imperial War Museum and the other is in the National Archives.  They are identical and appear to be as originally published, classified Confidential then later declassified, and they do not contain the two figures to which you refer.  I do not know of the existence of any copies of the original German Coler/Frohlich report where you would find those two figures.  My guess is the work being done in the UK and reported in the Hudson letter also did not have access to those two figures.  And it would appear that the Norrby patent (on which the Stromerzeuger is based) also was not known to them at that time.

Smudge

Offline tinman

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #47 on: October 23, 2017, 03:10:59 PM »
Hi Antigrav89,

I have no reason to believe that the original classified B.I.O.S report 1043 did have copies of the figures mentioned in that appendix.  I have seen two surviving copies of that B.I.O.S. report, one is at the Imperial War Museum and the other is in the National Archives.  They are identical and appear to be as originally published, classified Confidential then later declassified, and they do not contain the two figures to which you refer.  I do not know of the existence of any copies of the original German Coler/Frohlich report where you would find those two figures.  My guess is the work being done in the UK and reported in the Hudson letter also did not have access to those two figures.  And it would appear that the Norrby patent (on which the Stromerzeuger is based) also was not known to them at that time.

Smudge

Wow,this thread just popped up from years gone by.

Smudge,is this the correct device you are referring to ?



Brad

Offline antigrav89

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #48 on: October 23, 2017, 03:46:29 PM »

I have no reason to believe that the original classified B.I.O.S report 1043 did have copies of the figures mentioned in that appendix.


Hi Smudge,

Then, how to explain why the appendix refers to these two figures if they were not present in the original B.I.O.S. document?
A mistake from the person (presumably R. Hurst) who wrote the appendix (and the whole report) from parts of the original German Coler/Frohlich report and would have omitted to remove the part of the text referring to these figures?
Perhaps, these two figures, which would have been of prime importance for reproducing the stromerzeuger (which was not protected by a patent), were purposely removed from the final version of the B.I.O.S. report or the original German report by Captain Hans Coler and/or Captain R. Sandberg, to protect their interest in the invention.

Antigrav89

Offline Smudge

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #49 on: October 23, 2017, 05:40:29 PM »
Hi Smudge,

Then, how to explain why the appendix refers to these two figures if they were not present in the original B.I.O.S. document?
A mistake from the person (presumably R. Hurst) who wrote the appendix (and the whole report) from parts of the original German Coler/Frohlich report and would have omitted to remove the part of the text referring to these figures?
Perhaps, these two figures, which would have been of prime importance for reproducing the stromerzeuger (which was not protected by a patent), were purposely removed from the final version of the B.I.O.S. report or the original German report by Captain Hans Coler and/or Captain R. Sandberg, to protect their interest in the invention.

Antigrav89

All I can say is that this was the days before we had photocopiers and it is clear that the whole report (except the front page) was reproduced using stencils.  (I worked in the UK Ministry of Supply as a young 16 year old lad and I remember those days. )  It is clear to me from the page numbering, and a close inspection of the stapling that holds the pages together, that the reports I've seen haven't been tampered with.  Whether the figures were deliberately left out of the original draft I can't say, but my gut feeling is that this was a time when the intelligence teams were writing a large number of reports and the typing pool was under pressure to get them all published and so the figures from the German original never got reproduced because they did not have access to them.
Smudge

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #49 on: October 23, 2017, 05:40:29 PM »
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Offline Smudge

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #50 on: October 23, 2017, 05:46:24 PM »
Wow,this thread just popped up from years gone by.

Smudge,is this the correct device you are referring to ?



Brad
Yes that's the one.  If you look back at earlier posts on this thread you will see that another group are convinced that the Stromerzeuger was a scam and the Norrby patent did not claim power amplification, only voltage amplification.  But it is clear to me from the descriptions of the Coler/Unruh Stromerzeuger that it was derived from that Norrby device.

Smudge

Smudge

Offline antigrav89

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #51 on: October 24, 2017, 05:28:40 PM »
[...]the figures from the German original never got reproduced because they did not have access to them.

Hi Smudge,

The diagrams might also have been available in the original B.I.O.S. document, but of little use for reproducing a working
prototype because the 1943 Coler/Frohlich report states :

"Apart from the great number of alternative arrangements and
connections between the different parts, - during the period
covered by this report eight different circuit diagrams were
tested in addition to the experiments above
- the following as
far unsolved problems are hindering success in making the
apparatus work [...]"

So, we have to assume that, either the diagrams in the Coler/Frohlich report (drawn by Coler after his breakdown) were possibly erroneous or the procedure to get the stromerzeuger started and/or pre-magnetize the core magnets were only known by Willi von Unruh (who presumably died in 1937 possibly during the bombing which destroyed the working prototypes along with the related documents including the drawings describing the 6 kW machine version).
The engineer team gathered by Hudson in 1947 might have been faced with the same problems for reproducing the stromerzeuger than those encountered by the Frohlich's team in 1943, which reported failure for experiments 1 and 3 and gave inconclusive results for experiments 2 and 4.
In particular, the experiment 3 (successfully reproduced by "the inventor and his assistant Dipl. Ing. Rudolf Hingst" from measurements on the 1937 working machine) which could have validated the current amplification phenomena, could not be reproduced.

Despite these failures, Coler wrote in his statement relating to the Frohlich'experiments :

"In order to prevent any possible objection, that
the iron had any influence on the results, the whole transformer
was out out during the experiments
and an iron-free flat coil
arrangement
used as the inductor during these experiments.
[...]I can consider my discovery of the energy difference between the opening
and closing impulse as proved on the basis ot Frohlich' s
experiments.
The result obtained with this experimental arrangement,
[...] was the clear proof of a considerably larger energy during opening (intake), compared with closing impulses.
my intuitively derived view, based on my most primitive experiments, of these
processes has proved correct [...] as my development of the "Space energy
receiver" was based on this and was successful."

So, Coler was convinced that his machines worked as space energy receivers and the role played by the magnetic material was not essential for their operation. The "iron-free flat coil arrangement" he refers to for supporting his successful result is unclear because the corresponding figure 4 only schematizes a standard air-core transformer (alike as the sliding air-core coils used for the magnetstromapparat).  Most surprising is the association of the words "flat coil" and "iron-free" because the flat coils are usually associated to the flat rectangular coil circuit between the plates (these coils are always air-core coils in the Norrby patent), the transformer coils referring to the coils placed in zigzag formation between the two stacks of plates (called the directing circuit). What did he mean when he said "the whole transformer was out out during the experiments"? Did he refer to the directing circuit? The condenser plates seem also to have been absent during these experiments. So, the energy excess observed would only come from the flat coils arrangement. What is your feeling about this experiment?

Coler proudly claimed that "[his] intuitively derived view based on [his] most primitive experiments [...] has proved correct".

The Hudson letter states:

"Coler has written a note describing his theory of the operation.
This is in our hands and being translated."

It might have been interesting to have this note to have Coler's vision about the principle of operation of his machines.

Antigrav89

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #51 on: October 24, 2017, 05:28:40 PM »
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Offline forest

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #52 on: October 24, 2017, 08:50:25 PM »
Where is the Coler's principle of operation theory document ? Is that known ?

Offline Smudge

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #53 on: October 25, 2017, 11:30:50 AM »
Where is the Coler's principle of operation theory document ? Is that known ?
I have not seen it but you will find the response from someone who had seen it in the forum that Shanti referred to earlier http://www.energiederzukunft.org/forum/5-allgemeines-forum/285-hans-coler
Go to page 11 reply 381 where there are images of letters form the UK National Archives.  One letter says (with typing errors corrected here) "The report is a rather pathetic personal document showing the picture of a very earnest but entirely untrained observer who has stumbled across discoveries, the explanation of which he is incapable of furnishing. while attempting to do so on a basis of elementary (matriculation standard) physics"

Smudge

Offline antigrav89

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #54 on: October 25, 2017, 01:43:53 PM »
Hi Smudge,

Thank you for the link to the original Coler German documents.

When comparatively studying the two Coler machines, it appears to me that the stromerzeuger and the magnetstromapparat share two common characteristics:

- the E-field and B-field in each element are parallel to each other
- the E-fields and the B-fields in the circuit formed by the different coupled elements sum up to zero

The first condition is known to occur in the case of resonant cavities producing standing waves.
The second condition fills the requirement for the existence of scalar waves propagating in the system.

In the case of the magnetstromapparat, the E-field is created by the current passing through the core magnet.
This E-field is due to the difference between the electric conductivities in the iron surface layer and the copper wire in the coil:
injected charges from the copper wire accumulate on the magnet surface at one electrode faster than they flow towards the other electrode by passing through the surface magnet layer, thus creating a potential difference. 

In the case of the stromerzeuger, the E-field created by the capacitor plates is parallel with the B-Field created by the flat coil between the plates.

In the experiment 3 described in the Coler/Frohlich report, the null result is explained by the fact that the two electric induction currents flowing in opposite directions mutually cancel.
This situation is formally equivalent to two oppositely charged currents that would flow in the same direction, one current carrying negative charges (electrons) and the other one carrying positive charges (positrons) resulting from the charge separation from a vacuum pair fluctuation state.
Here it is interesting that the "charge separation" concept is also the hypothesis made by Coler in the Appendix I of the B.I.O.S. report to explain the principle operation of the Stromerzeuger.
How such a charge separation could be possible from the physics point of view?
The response might come from the Aharonov-Bohm dephasage effect, which, in the special case of scalar waves cancels (the four-potential integrand is a total exact differential that zeroes over a closed integration path), allowing to the electronic and positronic currents to travel in phase without destructively interacting.
If I am correct, we could be in presence of a new form of superconductivity based on electron-positron pairs.
It might be explain why the Frohlich's experiments on separate parts of the machine failed to find the cause of the current amplification in the Stromerzeuger: scalar waves only manifest in special circuit geometrical configurations that allow the total E-fields and B-fields to cancel and the system under study has to be considered as a whole.
What do you think about my analysis?

Antigrav89

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #54 on: October 25, 2017, 01:43:53 PM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #55 on: October 25, 2017, 04:04:01 PM »
"What do you think about my analysis?"

Clapclap

Offline Smudge

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #56 on: October 25, 2017, 05:04:33 PM »
Hi AG89,

Assuming that it is possible to obtain electron-positron pairs I am not sure how you get them to travel since any form of electro-magnetic induction would create forces in opposite directions.

Having read in that German forum about the Unruh brothers being jailed for fraudently obtaining significant amounts of money for their "inventions" I think it quite likely that the whole Coler thing is a dead end.  However that doesn't stop me from looking at possibilities for how it might work as described and witnessed by Professors Kloss and Schumann.

Of all the various possibilities that I have considered my gut feeling is that RF Corbino-like currents around the surface of the iron cores can provide magnetic coupling to the flat coils that hasn't been investigated, and that is the most likely explanation for the anomalous results.  This requires the DC magnetic field in the cores to leak out of the cylindrical surface, and the DC excitation coils described in the UK documents from the National Archives, plus the pemanently magnetized wire connection at one end, could achieve just that.  The RF longitudinal surface currents would react with that radial static magnetic field field to create the Corbino effect, so the RF current paths then become helical hence creating an anomalous RF magnetic field.  It should be possible to perform simple experiments to verify this.

Smudge

Offline Smudge

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #57 on: October 25, 2017, 05:14:35 PM »
Further to my previous post I see I hadn't published my paper on the Inverse Corbino effect, so here it is.  Enjoy!

Smudge

Offline antigrav89

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #58 on: October 25, 2017, 10:01:16 PM »

I am not sure how you get them to travel since any form of electro-magnetic induction would create forces in opposite directions.

Smudge

Hi Smudge,

Scalar waves are non electromagnetic waves which are particular solutions of the electromagnetism equations corresponding to the case where E-Field and B-field are simultaneously null.
So, they are not expected to comply with the laws of Electromagnetism.
The B-field null case is associated to the Ahoronov-Bohm magnetic effect; the E-field null case corresponds to the Aharonov-Bohm electric effect.
These waves are longitudinal waves associated to propagating energy that might be created by stressing vacuum medium by application of opposite E-fields and B-Fields.
They are not associated to any E-field or B-field,  so they are not submitted to classical induction laws.

An ordinary electric current  flowing through a metallic conductor is submitted to resistance effects from the metallic material due to the attraction exerced upon the conduction electrons by the
metal positive ions.

A pure positronic current would be repelled by the lattice metal ions which would cooperate with the current flow, thus creating a negative resistance effect.

A superconducting current carried by electron-positron pairs, travelling in phase, might behave in a special way, the positron-ion repulsion compensating ,partially or totally, the electron-ion attraction, thus reducing the electric resistance. These combined interactions might also have a stabilizing effect on the ions by reducing the atomic nuclei vibrations, thus suppressing the quantum decoherence effects which cause electronic and positronic wave function dephasage to occur with time.

But for obtaining usable electron-positron pairs, the quantum fluctuations have to be stabilized first.
The role played by the pulsed DC current might be essential for this goal.
We now model the dynamical vacuum as an infinite fluid.  This fluid must to be compressible in order to allow waves with finite velocity to propagate.
It has also to be inviscid (non viscuous) to avoid thermic dissipation.
In ferromagnetic materials, magnetorestrictive effects allow the atomic nuclei to have large amplitude deplacements.
The pulsed current which causes the atoms to move synchronously in the same direction, might create soliton, spin waves or magnetic structures as skyrmions to cohere and stabilize the vacuum fluctuations, thus reducing system entropy.
The system under study is considered as an open (non conservative) quantum system (conservation laws of energy and momentum only apply to closed systems).
These thermodynamical transitions between chaotic to auto-organized non-equilibrium states have been extensively studied by Ilia Prigogine.

Antigrav89

Offline Smudge

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #59 on: October 26, 2017, 04:29:17 PM »
Hi ag89,

Thank you for the lecture on scalar waves.  I do have some comments

Quote
Scalar waves are non electromagnetic waves which are particular solutions of the electromagnetism equations corresponding to the case where E-Field and B-field are simultaneously null.
So, they are not expected to comply with the laws of Electromagnetism.
I thought the laws of electromagnetism are the equations.  So I don't see why particular solutions should be considered as non-electromagnetic, even when the fields "simultaneously" null.  The facts that the fields null does not mean that the quanta, the virtual particles of space, are absent, it is just that their measurable effects cancel.  And using the term "measurable" brings into focus your use of the word "simultaneously".  That infers an instant in time but we know that as we look at smaller and smaller time intervals, although on average the field quanta null, their presence in terms of individual number or amplitude density do not.
Quote
The B-field null case is associated to the Ahoronov-Bohm magnetic effect; the E-field null case corresponds to the Aharonov-Bohm electric effect.
In your opinion, others have a different view.
Quote
These waves are longitudinal waves associated to propagating energy that might be created by stressing vacuum medium by application of opposite E-fields and B-Fields.
They are not associated to any E-field or B-field,  so they are not submitted to classical induction laws.
Now you have wandered into what actually comprises the vacuum medium and whether or not it can be stressed.
Quote
An ordinary electric current  flowing through a metallic conductor is submitted to resistance effects from the metallic material due to the attraction exerced upon the conduction electrons by the
metal positive ions.
That is an over-simplification.
Quote
A pure positronic current would be repelled by the lattice metal ions which would cooperate with the current flow, thus creating a negative resistance effect.
Now you have assumed that there is a current flow, which demands that there be something present to create that flow, indeed your negative resistance effect implies a voltage hence an E field.  If there is some directional force on your conduction positrons, then by definition there is an E field present, and that will create the same direction of current as for conduction electrons, so no negative resistance effects.

Quote
A superconducting current carried by electron-positron pairs, travelling in phase, might behave in a special way, the positron-ion repulsion compensating ,partially or totally, the electron-ion attraction, thus reducing the electric resistance.
But there will be no electric current, no effective charge movement.  So you can't call it a superconducting current.
Quote
These combined interactions might also have a stabilizing effect on the ions by reducing the atomic nuclei vibrations, thus suppressing the quantum decoherence effects which cause electronic and positronic wave function dephasage to occur with time.

But for obtaining usable electron-positron pairs, the quantum fluctuations have to be stabilized first.
The role played by the pulsed DC current might be essential for this goal.
No comment.
Quote
We now model the dynamical vacuum as an infinite fluid.  This fluid must to be compressible in order to allow waves with finite velocity to propagate.
It has also to be inviscid (non viscuous) to avoid thermic dissipation.
Now you have wandered away from the quantum world and IMO opinion that is a mistake.  The dynamical vacuum does not behave like a compressible fluid.
Quote
In ferromagnetic materials, magnetorestrictive effects allow the atomic nuclei to have large amplitude deplacements.
The pulsed current which causes the atoms to move synchronously in the same direction, might create soliton, spin waves or magnetic structures as skyrmions to cohere and stabilize the vacuum fluctuations, thus reducing system entropy.
The system under study is considered as an open (non conservative) quantum system (conservation laws of energy and momentum only apply to closed systems).
These thermodynamical transitions between chaotic to auto-organized non-equilibrium states have been extensively studied by Ilia Prigogine.
I have no argument with that, but I fail to see the connection with your imaginary vacuum fluid.

Smudge

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #59 on: October 26, 2017, 04:29:17 PM »

 

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