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Author Topic: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger  (Read 22656 times)

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2014, 06:47:13 PM »
Ah...no. An energy source may look like a negative resistance, but a negative resistance is NOT necessarily an energy source. Reflected power in a transmission line system is certainly NOT an energy source.... it can be an energy storage mechanism if you set up a standing wave and encourage it by resonant pumping, and certainly this stored energy can be released, smoothly or disruptively. However, all the energy comes from the transmitter's power supply, not from the "negative resistance" of the transmission line.

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Offline Smudge

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2014, 08:30:29 PM »
I beg to differ.  A negative resistance is an energy source seen from the point where the negative resistance appears.  That tells you nothing about where the energy actually comes from, and of course you need to look into the circuit or system that is creating that negative resistance to find the source of energy.  You seem to be of the opinion that because we are talking about transmission lines with reflection at the far end, that automatically implies we connect a transmitter to the input, and that then must be the source of the energy.  I have a different viewpoint that says a transmission line with a reactive impedance is a rather special device, it is not your usual chain or distribution of passive components.  It could be a chain of active components, and then the source is obviously the power supply to those active components.  In that case it is not necessary to place a transmitter at the front end, the system can self oscillate quite happily.  On the other hand the transmission line could be something special that exhibits the reactive impedance characteristic, in which case the energy source is buried within that special device.  As I have argued elsewhere a magnetized ferromagnetic conductive rod has alot of energy stored in the precessions of the conduction electrons, and it is just possible that this array of quantum driven oscillators is the source of energy. 

Offline MarkE

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2014, 05:32:26 AM »
I beg to differ.  A negative resistance is an energy source seen from the point where the negative resistance appears.  That tells you nothing about where the energy actually comes from, and of course you need to look into the circuit or system that is creating that negative resistance to find the source of energy.  You seem to be of the opinion that because we are talking about transmission lines with reflection at the far end, that automatically implies we connect a transmitter to the input, and that then must be the source of the energy.  I have a different viewpoint that says a transmission line with a reactive impedance is a rather special device, it is not your usual chain or distribution of passive components.  It could be a chain of active components, and then the source is obviously the power supply to those active components.  In that case it is not necessary to place a transmitter at the front end, the system can self oscillate quite happily.  On the other hand the transmission line could be something special that exhibits the reactive impedance characteristic, in which case the energy source is buried within that special device.  As I have argued elsewhere a magnetized ferromagnetic conductive rod has alot of energy stored in the precessions of the conduction electrons, and it is just possible that this array of quantum driven oscillators is the source of energy.
Transmission lines are defined as passive structures.  The only energy available in a transmission line is energy previously launched into the structure from an external energy source.

Offline Smudge

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2014, 10:57:17 AM »
Transmission lines are defined as passive structures.  The only energy available in a transmission line is energy previously launched into the structure from an external energy source.

Transmission lines do not have to be made from passive components.  It is possible to create inductive and capacitive "components" from active devices having feedback whereby the value of the inductance or capacitance is controlled by the gain of the active device and the characteristic of the feedback loop.  A chain of such devices would perform as a transmission line.  Moreover with such active devices it would be possible to give the transmission line a reactive characteristic impedance, something that is not normal in lines made from passive components.  Having done that, according to classical line theory, it is possible to achieve a line having negative resistance as its input characteristic.  As in all negative resistance devices, thermal noise is all that is necessary to get self oscillation, so IMO we could make such a self-oscillating line using active components.  Of course in that case the power in the oscillations comes from the power delivered to the active devices.

A transmission line having reactive Z0 is not generally found or even considered in the field of electromagnetics, so the negative input resistance aspect has not been studied before.  But it is there hidden in the math of transmission line theory.  Now is that just a math artefact?  My reasoning above suggests it is not.  So if there does exist such a line in Nature, it will act like my line made from active components, and there will be some power source inherent in that line.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2014, 03:11:15 PM »
Transmission lines do not have to be made from passive components.  It is possible to create inductive and capacitive "components" from active devices having feedback whereby the value of the inductance or capacitance is controlled by the gain of the active device and the characteristic of the feedback loop.  A chain of such devices would perform as a transmission line.  Moreover with such active devices it would be possible to give the transmission line a reactive characteristic impedance, something that is not normal in lines made from passive components.  Having done that, according to classical line theory, it is possible to achieve a line having negative resistance as its input characteristic.  As in all negative resistance devices, thermal noise is all that is necessary to get self oscillation, so IMO we could make such a self-oscillating line using active components.  Of course in that case the power in the oscillations comes from the power delivered to the active devices.

A transmission line having reactive Z0 is not generally found or even considered in the field of electromagnetics, so the negative input resistance aspect has not been studied before.  But it is there hidden in the math of transmission line theory.  Now is that just a math artefact?  My reasoning above suggests it is not.  So if there does exist such a line in Nature, it will act like my line made from active components, and there will be some power source inherent in that line.
A passive device does not contribute energy.  If one pieces together amplifiers, power sources for the amplifiers and transmission lines, the transmission lines remain passive no matter how many amplifiers and power supplies one attaches.

Transmission lines have been used as phase shift elements in certain oscillator designs for decades and decades.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2014, 03:11:15 PM »
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Offline Vortex1

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2014, 03:49:53 PM »
Smudge:

Thank you for showing up on this forum.  Have you already seen this paper from Howard Reiss? Pages 24, 25, 26 of the attached document considers using the dielectric of a transmission line as the source fuel in a "nuclear" way.

Kind Regards,
Vortex1

Offline Smudge

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2014, 08:23:13 PM »
Smudge:

Thank you for showing up on this forum.  Have you already seen this paper from Howard Reiss? Pages 24, 25, 26 of the attached document considers using the dielectric of a transmission line as the source fuel in a "nuclear" way.

Kind Regards,
Vortex1

Vortex,

That's interesting but input powers in the tens of megawatts is a bit beyond your average experimenter. :)

Smudge

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2014, 08:23:13 PM »
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Offline Smudge

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2014, 08:32:50 PM »
Here is another paper this time looking at the Corbino Effect that usually applies to discs.  It is shown that this can also apply to cylindrical geometry.  Then the Inverse Corbino Effect (where circular currents are induced magnetically) can yield a Hall voltage, in the disc case the voltage appears crom center to edge and in the cylindrical case the voltage appears from end to end.  The induced circular currents being at RF the Hall voltage along the cylinder is also RF.  Clearly this could apply to the Stromerzeuger Fe rods.

Enjoy

Offline Vortex1

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2014, 03:41:34 AM »
Hi Smudge

Read the paper, the 180kHz experiment should not be hard to do, have you or anyone attempted it? Shouldn't take much to give it a whirl.

Regarding the Reiss paper, perhaps megawatts for microseconds is in the range of the experimenter, especially if you pump the transmission line such that extremely narrow pulses are reflected from the ends or use a ring resonator.

I've got a few thousand feet of 14 Ga thermocouple grade iron wire on hand (Hoskins Mfg.). Is this pure enough for experimenting  along these lines?

Regards, Vortex1

Offline Smudge

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2014, 10:55:29 AM »
Hi Smudge

Read the paper, the 180kHz experiment should not be hard to do, have you or anyone attempted it? Shouldn't take much to give it a whirl.

Regarding the Reiss paper, perhaps megawatts for microseconds is in the range of the experimenter, especially if you pump the transmission line such that extremely narrow pulses are reflected from the ends or use a ring resonator.

I've got a few thousand feet of 14 Ga thermocouple grade iron wire on hand (Hoskins Mfg.). Is this pure enough for experimenting  along these lines?

Regards, Vortex1

Hi Vortex1,

I would think any form of iron could be experimented with, although Coler used a pure form (probably Swedish iron originally then in 1946/47 he used Armco iron).  His rods were 3/4 inch diameter so the use of thin wire might not be productive, but worth a try anyway.  I think the state of the iron is important, it needs to be annealed so as to give it soft properties.  I have some small rods obtained from Goodfellow and they are hard both mechanically and magnetically, and I haven't had any success with these.

Regarding the Reiss paper even megawatt pulses are beyond the reach of your average experimenter, but should be no problem for a decent electronics lab.   I have experience in pulsed radar where such power levels are not unusual, but the waveguide/coax has to be able to withstand the high voltages.  There are pulse narrowing techniques using saturating ferrite where you start with a wide low-power pulse and end up with a high-power narrow pulse.  This simplifies the inital pulse modulator and could bring it into the realm of the home experimenter.

Smudge

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2014, 10:55:29 AM »
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Offline Smudge

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2014, 12:15:55 PM »
Here is another paper I wrote some time ago.  This concerns electron precession acting as a charge pump.  Clearly electrons bound in the lattice but acting like tiny bar magnets precessing at microwave frequencies can create forces on itinerant conduction electrons.  So the possibility exists that given the right conditions this could create observable effects, even rectifying the microwaves to create DC.

Online Bob Smith

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2014, 06:49:12 PM »
Last paragraph on p. 14 of this article before the conclusion seems to be pointing to what you're proposing, Smudge:
http://www.rexresearch.com/stuff5/ludwigcoler.pdf
Bob

Offline Smudge

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2014, 08:37:20 PM »
Bob,
I have met the author of this article at his laboratory in Kolberg.  He has two replications (built by other people) of the Coler Magnetstromapparat at his disposal.  He also has some sophisticated test equipment there and as you can see he has studied  ferromagnetic acoustic resonance.  AFAIK Aspden was the first to suggest that the magnets may have used this resonance.  The previous paragraph refers to ferromagnetic resonance which I take to be the classical FMR but that is at microwave frequencies and clearly the M machine does not use those directly.  Thorsten has copies of some of my papers.
Smudge 

Offline Shanti

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2014, 05:26:02 PM »
@Smudge:

So it seems, you also have the files from the british with the UK story after the BIOS report (AVIA 49/11). Where Coler tried without success in making a working device (including a detailed material list of a Stromerzeuger).
Sure you can say, that von Unruh wasn't there, and Coler therefore wasn't able to do it.

But unfortunately, as it clearly points out to me, von Unruh just misused Coler to get another more clean character in the front to get new investors.

Do you also have the german files from the Reichskanzlei?

It doesn't seem like this is the case to me...

They show a lot...
E.g. in all demonstrations people were not allowed to put their own meters in the circuit, only the meters which were already implemented by them.
Most of the scientists were OK with this. But two scientists weren't which were there to verify the claims for further investments.
And what did they do? They made a very special measuring equipment on the fly to measure currents without probing the circuit directly.
And what did they find out? They discovered that what the installed meters were measuring was wrong, and that in reality, really exactly as much power is at the output as is drawn from the batteris, just within a very slight measuring error tolerance.

So no OU there.

And if you read these files further, it at least gets very clear to me, that the Coler/Unruh apparatus was never OU, and that this was rather a big SCAM set up by von Unruh involving Coler in a way, that probably Coler himself never realized, that he had been tricked by von Unruh...
From the story as I get it, probably Coler really believed the device would work.

And btw someone in a german forum (hcrs) replicated the Magnetstromapperat successfully and finally discovered how it worked.
A description for replication is also there: http://forum.hcrs.at/viewtopic.php?p=16905 (including the description how it works electrically, for it is quite a tricky circuit).  It was a galvanic effect. But not a galvanic effect as reported by the later UK files, which thought, it was a galvanic reaction at the lamp socket, but it was a galvanic reaction at the coils.

BTW. IMHO by far the best story summation has been given in a german forum with a lot of relations to original docs.
Link: http://www.energiederzukunft.org/forum/5-allgemeines-forum/285-hans-coler

If you do not speak german, maybe an autotranslate can help.

I really recommend reading it!!!!!!! It is actually a must read for anyone interested in the Coler story.

Edit:
BTW, also in that thread, there is the pic schema of the Stromerzeuger from the Reichskanzlei files (attached it). This pic and also the material list in the UK report clearly show that the Norrby patent is really the Stromerzeuger.
It is also speculated there, that Unruh maybe got knowledge of the english version. As the english version seems to have a translation error. In the french version it is just stated, that the circuit will increase the voltage (like a transformer). But in the english version this has been translated, that the circuit will increase the power.

BTW: It would be very interesting to know, what kind of newspaper articles you could find about the whole story.


« Last Edit: June 06, 2014, 10:03:56 PM by Shanti »

Offline Smudge

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Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2014, 10:04:32 PM »
Hi Shanti,

I was not aware of the german files from the Reichskanzlei.  I will certainly look at them.  It is satisfying to know that the stromerzeuger was based on the Norrby patent, that is the conclusion I came to after Fred Epps sent me the Norrby patent.  The UK application never got granted so the data became available to the public, and maybe that's where Unruh got it (at the cost of one shilling).  Here are the articles in the old UK Daily Chronicle.

Smudge

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Theories concerning Hans Coler's Stromerzeuger
« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2014, 10:04:32 PM »

 

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