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Author Topic: Recover energy from gravity  (Read 39597 times)

Offline rc4

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Re: Recover energy from gravity
« Reply #75 on: April 19, 2014, 12:34:15 AM »
Step1/ Accelerate and recover energy from red tube
Step2/ Decelerate and recover energy from acceleration of step 1
Repeat

This suppose it's possible to recover 100% of energy from acceleration, it's possible in theory, in practise this increase temperature and temperature is energy, so the system increase its own energy. The only energy lost is the blank part inside container, but it's a very low energy compared to red tube.

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Re: Recover energy from gravity
« Reply #75 on: April 19, 2014, 12:34:15 AM »

Offline rc4

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Re: Recover energy from gravity
« Reply #76 on: April 19, 2014, 11:40:47 AM »
If the velocity to introduce green tube is high, the axis have a force F that cancel themself on one turn but not in each time. In top view, the green tube is fixed, move only in front view. The force F move the object alone. GREEN TUBE HAS NO MASS.

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Offline rc4

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Re: Recover energy from gravity
« Reply #77 on: April 19, 2014, 03:06:17 PM »
a new test with Multisim (first image) and LTSpice (second). With LTSpice I added a RL for transformer.

« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 07:41:49 PM by rc4 »

Offline rc4

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Re: Recover energy from gravity
« Reply #78 on: April 19, 2014, 11:53:47 PM »
For the message # 76, I tested with Algodoo, it's ok the disk move alone. I give you the file for test. You can put all velocity at 0 except rotationnal speed. play, you'll see the disk move alone :)

The disk don't accelerate, it's ok, because force cancel themself in a turn.

« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 10:46:35 AM by rc4 »


Offline rc4

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Re: Recover energy from gravity
« Reply #79 on: April 20, 2014, 03:02:42 PM »
I tested again with Algodoo and the CG move. You can put velocity at 0 for all the scene except rotationnal velocity and play. The velocity of CG is not very high because force from pressure cancel themself on one turn but it move. If you test with ice, you'll see the CG don't move with same scene.

Even CG move when object is inside liquid, the CG is compute with linear law. The law of force of pressure has a cosine function in it.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 01:16:31 AM by rc4 »

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Re: Recover energy from gravity
« Reply #79 on: April 20, 2014, 03:02:42 PM »
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Offline rc4

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Re: Recover energy from gravity
« Reply #80 on: April 21, 2014, 10:01:06 AM »
even with frequency at 10000 the volume moves alone. It's evidence with second case that velocity change like the position of block inside water.

Offline rc4

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Re: Recover energy from gravity
« Reply #81 on: April 22, 2014, 09:19:34 AM »
With a macroscopic model with compressible balls it's easy to see additional forces F from balls to solid.

File R1: Works with only 1 ball and 1 spring. If you turn clockwise the system lost energy in the contrary the system win energy. Without the spring the system lost energy clockwise or anticlockwise.

I think this append because circle is not perfect. I try with this new file, it's the same result (file angle1).  Sum of forces on ball is 0, the ball don't move. Sum of forces on system (except ball) is 0, but radius on apply forces of ball are different so there is a torque => energy move up or down depend of the direction of rotation.

Sum of torque is (R)*m1-(R+d)*m2, d is constant, so the relation between radius is (R+d)/R, R can be like I want. The relation between m1/m2 is 1.362/1.292 = 0.07 (look at figures). I can choose R like want sot there is a difference of torque.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 03:30:07 PM by rc4 »

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Re: Recover energy from gravity
« Reply #81 on: April 22, 2014, 09:19:34 AM »
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Offline rc4

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Re: Recover energy from gravity
« Reply #82 on: April 24, 2014, 07:14:28 AM »
The système turn clockwise. The sum of forces WITH friction give a torque. Pieces 1 are link together. Piece 2 is alone. Friction is at 0.5, restituion 0.5.

Offline HH

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Re: Recover energy from gravity
« Reply #83 on: April 25, 2014, 12:15:28 AM »
Your compressible balls, thats air, or any other gas. Isn't it?

Offline HH

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Re: Recover energy from gravity
« Reply #84 on: April 25, 2014, 12:58:45 AM »
And water is not compressible, it will not get more dense and will not lift your mass. It will leave the container, trying to stay in place.

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Re: Recover energy from gravity
« Reply #84 on: April 25, 2014, 12:58:45 AM »
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Offline rc4

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Re: Recover energy from gravity
« Reply #85 on: April 25, 2014, 07:36:20 AM »
There is no water. Take last Algodoo scene. No friction from air. No gravity.

The ball can be not compressible in fact. The system move alone (no axis) and sum of energy increase, without never stop. Even there is friction at 0.5, the friction must lost energy but in fact with friction the system win energy. Friction change the sum of forces. I take frequency at 12000 Hz, results don't change from 4800 to 12000 Hz. At start I added only an angular velocity.

I think friction act on center of gravity of small ball (2), and act on piece (1), there are not same center of gravity and radius are not the same. So the torque is not the same.

If you change mass of one part of the system this change the efficiency.

Without linear velocity, the system lost energy.

Offline rc4

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Re: Recover energy from gravity
« Reply #86 on: May 08, 2014, 09:19:47 PM »
I tested with bigger dimensions. The difference of energy is bigger. I choose parameters for have small forces in the same range than previous test.


Offline rc4

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Re: Recover energy from gravity
« Reply #87 on: May 10, 2014, 12:09:21 PM »
I think I understood how energy is won.

Image 1/ Average power measure by Algodoo is 10.2 W
Image 2/ Average angular velocity is 0.7044 rd/s
Image 3/ Average force is 0.0647 N (only a dy for compute only axis Y, relative to system at start)
Image 4/ A torque exist on Object2, the power from torque is 11.2 W
Image 5/ In the contrary Object1 moves only 0.686 m, so the power is 0.686 * 0.0647 = 0.04 W

Image6/ The system, scale

Like I measure average of force from -15° to 15°, I need to correct value of 11.2 W, this is (1+cos(85))/2*11.2 = 11 W it's very close to 10.2 W.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 03:29:59 PM by rc4 »

Offline rc4

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Re: Recover energy from gravity
« Reply #88 on: May 12, 2014, 07:03:19 PM »
I study this new case. More stable and I think it's the different trajectories that give energy. Object2 (red and orange colors) turn, but not Object1 that is more in translation trajectory like image showing.

Object 2 receive a torque, the radius come into equation, it's 0.026 m. In the contrary, Object1 move only in translation for a big part, and the radius of rotation is at 0.0001 m. Forces from torque are sum of T and N. For compute, take Power = Torque * angular velocity = 22 N * 0.026 * 18.4 = 10.5 W, it's near Algodoo find (Algodoo don't compute friction).

For the sum of forces on each center of gravity I need to compute the direction and for Object 1 it's logical the force works.

On Object1, forces from Object2 pass by its center of gravity and like it is less than 1/10 of the trajectory of Object2, the works it's lower (1/10).
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 11:20:50 PM by rc4 »


Offline FatBird

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Re: Recover energy from gravity
« Reply #89 on: May 13, 2014, 02:24:33 AM »
Wow, this is so CLEAR & Easy to make, I'm sure everybody here will make one RIGHT AWAY.  LOL


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Re: Recover energy from gravity
« Reply #89 on: May 13, 2014, 02:24:33 AM »

 

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