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Solid States Devices => Joule Thief => Topic started by: omdano on January 27, 2014, 09:47:29 PM
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Hello , I have made a joule thief using the guide from MAKE channel about it the link is :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTAqGKt64WM
so... i used a 2N2222 transistor
And it lighted the led with a 1.5v battery (yea... 1.44 but yeah)
then i used a 0.5v battery but didn't work
Even tho it is told that it will work till 0.3v
What happened?
and how can i fix it ?
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Hello , I have made a joule thief using the guide from MAKE channel about it the link is :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTAqGKt64WM
so... i used a 2N2222 transistor
And it lighted the led with a 1.5v battery (yea... 1.44 but yeah)
then i used a 0.5v battery but didn't work
Even tho it is told that it will work till 0.3v
What happened?
and how can i fix it ?
basically a .6v to .7v is required for a silicon transistor , 0.3 for germanium
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Hello , I have made a joule thief using the guide from MAKE channel about it the link is :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTAqGKt64WM
so... i used a 2N2222 transistor
And it lighted the led with a 1.5v battery (yea... 1.44 but yeah)
then i used a 0.5v battery but didn't work
Even tho it is told that it will work till 0.3v
What happened?
and how can i fix it ?
Use a lower voltage transistor. JFETs are ideal, Ge transistors will at least get you closer to zero. If you use junction transistors, heating the transistor up will lower the starting voltage. You could use that to invent the "match lite Joule Thief".
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This must be the fifth time that this issue comes up.
Attached is a circuit with 4 transistors 2SK170 in parallel which will work down to 50 mV (at about 2 mA).
It was first published by magpwr some time ago.
Greetings, Conrad
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then i used a 0.5v battery but didn't work
Even tho it is told that it will work till 0.3v
What happened?
and how can i fix it ?
A silicon transistor Joule thief will often work at 0.4 volts if the voltage is slowly decreased while it is running. But will not generally not start at 0.4 volts.
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Use a lower voltage transistor. JFETs are ideal, Ge transistors will at least get you closer to zero. If you use junction transistors, heating the transistor up will lower the starting voltage. You could use that to invent the "match lite Joule Thief".
So... any JFET ? would you recommend any types or any specific ones ? (Except 2sk170 / LSK170 )
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So... any JFET ? would you recommend any types or any specific ones ? (Except 2sk170 / LSK170 )
Sorry, many people tried to find a replacement for the 2SK170, all transistors found were worse. In practice there are hardly any applications for a circuit below 0.5 Volt. To do anything useful below 0.5 Volt the current has to be very high. In general it is better to have a higher Voltage (at least 1 V or 3 V) and less current because the components do not heat up so much.
I did some tests with the transistor ALD110900, but it is much worse than the 2SK170 and more expensive (see the attached circuit).
So, if you want a transistor that switches down to 50 mV, I am afraid you have to get the 2SK170. I know, it has become difficult to get, try eBay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2SK170-TOSHIBA-FET-Transistor-N-Channel-QUAD-MATCH-4PCS-/270914931710?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f13c9cbfe (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2SK170-TOSHIBA-FET-Transistor-N-Channel-QUAD-MATCH-4PCS-/270914931710?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f13c9cbfe)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2SK170-GR-Toshiba-JFET-Transistors-/300881599819?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item460df0dd4b
Greetings, Conrad
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Guys , i am not talking about 50mV i am talking about 0.5 volts as in 500mV
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Guys , i am not talking about 50mV i am talking about 0.5 volts as in 500mV
Then use the ALD110900 or ALD110800 it works down to 0.2 Volt (200 mV).
http://at.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=ALD110900 (http://at.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=ALD110900)
http://at.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=ALD110800 (http://at.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=ALD110800)
Still, I would go for the 2SK170 because it leaves room to go far below 0.5 Volt. If you are at this low Voltages, how long will it take before you go down from 0.5 Volt?
There is no easy way, you would not be here to ask if there was. We do not do miracles.
Greetings, Conrad
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I am not using a battery for this one , i am going to use a constant 0.5 v power supply of my own
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Sorry, many people tried to find a replacement for the 2SK170, all transistors found were worse. In practice there are hardly any applications for a circuit below 0.5 Volt. To do anything useful below 0.5 Volt the current has to be very high. In general it is better to have a higher Voltage (at least 1 V or 3 V) and less current because the components do not heat up so much.
I did some tests with the transistor ALD110900, but it is much worse than the 2SK170 and more expensive (see the attached circuit).
So, if you want a transistor that switches down to 50 mV, I am afraid you have to get the 2SK170. I know, it has become difficult to get, try eBay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2SK170-TOSHIBA-FET-Transistor-N-Channel-QUAD-MATCH-4PCS-/270914931710?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f13c9cbfe (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2SK170-TOSHIBA-FET-Transistor-N-Channel-QUAD-MATCH-4PCS-/270914931710?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f13c9cbfe)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2SK170-GR-Toshiba-JFET-Transistors-/300881599819?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item460df0dd4b (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2SK170-GR-Toshiba-JFET-Transistors-/300881599819?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item460df0dd4b)
Greetings, Conrad
I don't know why people think that the 2sk170 is "difficult to get". There are lots of advertisers with lots of stock, genuine Toshiba stock too. Prices I've seen vary from very low like 20 cents each to very high, like several dollars for a matched pair. You can get lots of 10,000 in original Toshiba packaging from EBay. Or you can get individual ones without Toshiba branding for 20 cents each.
http://www.futurlec.com/Transistors/2SK170pr.shtml
I've got one JT here, the DALM circuit with four blue LEDs _in series_, that oscillates (without lighting the LEDs) down to around 360 mV, but needs about 610 mV to actually light the LEDs. It uses a BC337-25 or a MPSA18 silicon BJT and has a 1:1 toroid winding ratio. (20+20 turns).
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I have a handful of 2n5163 FET transistors that I pulled from some surplus MRI scanner boards. I haven't tried one in a JT yet but according to the data sheets they might work nearly as well as 2sk170.
Has anyone tried the 2n5163 yet?
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What about the all forgotten germanium transistors ?
don't they work as low as 0.2v ?
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What about the all forgotten germanium transistors ?
don't they work as low as 0.2v ?
Look at that search http://at.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=germanium+transistor and you will see that the modern germanium transistors are optimised for high frequency (GHz) not super low Voltage.
0.5 V seems to be a little bit too low for making a LED light up with a Joule Thiefe type circuit, unless you find something like the 2SK170, and the only one coming close some one found is the ALD110900.
There are older Japanese transistors, but they are realy hard to get.
I would say you put your "constant 0.5 V power supply of your own to 0.7 V" and you are out of trouble, almost any transistor will work.
There is a post by magpwr which describes the found transistors, but they are not available any more:
http://www.overunity.com/13175/25mv-joule-thief-powered-by-peltier-merely-using-our-body-heat-free-energy-247/msg350815/#msg350815
You can go through that thread (only 11 pages) to see yourselfe what has been done then.
Greetings, Conrad
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The germanium transistors work at 0,2V flat. At that voltage led is not very bright. I will tomorow post pictures. One strange thing also ocurs - joule tief with germanium transistor don't work at 1,4 - 1,5v, don't know why. Work with more and less but not with 1,5v exactly
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The germanium transistors work at 0,2V flat. At that voltage led is not very bright. I will tomorow post pictures. One strange thing also ocurs - joule tief with germanium transistor don't work at 1,4 - 1,5v, don't know why. Work with more and less but not with 1,5v exactly
Interesting, which germanium transistors did you use? I would like to try them myself.
I think that the 1.5 V problem could be overcome by changing the number of turns of the windings on the toroid. May be you could post the exact circuit you were using, and specially the windings on the toroid.
Greetings, Conrad
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Interesting, which germanium transistors did you use? I would like to try them myself.
I think that the 1.5 V problem could be overcome by changing the number of turns of the windings on the toroid. May be you could post the exact circuit you were using, and specially the windings on the toroid.
Greetings, Conrad
You have the BC547 which can allow you to get low to 0.136v
with a 100:10 toroid windings , i will try that as it seems like a solution
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Interesting, which germanium transistors did you use? I would like to try them myself.
I think that the 1.5 V problem could be overcome by changing the number of turns of the windings on the toroid. May be you could post the exact circuit you were using, and specially the windings on the toroid.
Greetings, Conrad
There are two things that are needed to make the device start:
1) The transistor must turn on with the available bias voltage.
2) The transformed bias voltage must be enough to turn the transistor off.
JFETs will turn on with zero bias voltage. Smaller Vgs values are needed to meet the second requirement. For junction transistors the first requirement is the limiting factor.
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You may want to look at this video >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQinhM1CxkM
The Vbe scope shot shows that the circuit needs less than 0.5 volts to work. However, I do not know if the circuit will start at 0.5 volts.
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What MarkE said above is quite true.
For low voltage startup with a bipolar transistor,
either silicon or germanium, the base drive must
be adequate to assure that the transistor turns
"on" sufficiently. This usually means that the
base current limiting resistor will need to be
reduced in value.
Or, some sort of switch can be placed across the
resistor to temporarily and briefly "short" it to
start the oscillator. Once running it may continue
to run at the low voltage of 150 to 200 milliVolts
or even less.
In some very low voltage Joule Thief oscillators
the base resistor is not used at all.
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What MarkE said above is quite true.
For low voltage startup with a bipolar transistor,
either silicon or germanium, the base drive must
be adequate to assure that the transistor turns
"on" sufficiently. This usually means that the
base current limiting resistor will need to be
reduced in value.
Or, some sort of switch can be placed across the
resistor to temporarily and briefly "short" it to
start the oscillator. Once running it may continue
to run at the low voltage of 150 to 200 milliVolts
or even less.
In some very low voltage Joule Thief oscillators
the base resistor is not used at all.
so.. i guess i shall be playing with the base resistance in this circuit :
http://www.electronics-lab.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/1828270262_b76c867954.jpg
to make it work :p (i am using 2n4401 instead)
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Here is my joule tief with germanium transistor AC551.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KuDI2bFYN8&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KuDI2bFYN8&feature=youtu.be)
Later I will post measurment of rectified output with and without load led.
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Here is my joule tief with germanium transistor AC551.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KuDI2bFYN8&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KuDI2bFYN8&feature=youtu.be)
Later I will post measurment of rectified output with and without load led.
<3 you
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so.. i guess i shall be playing with the base resistance in this circuit :
http://www.electronics-lab.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/1828270262_b76c867954.jpg (http://www.electronics-lab.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/1828270262_b76c867954.jpg)
to make it work :p (i am using 2n4401 instead)
Aye, that is how you'll get it to start and
run at the very low voltage. The transistor
type should not be too critical since nearly
any small signal transistor with a current gain
(Beta) of 100 or better should work well.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slGX1GUXd6o&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slGX1GUXd6o&feature=youtu.be)
video shows max. voltage of unloaded joule tief.
Suprisingly, white led works with only 2,6v.
I have expected more
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Gaaah. Clipleads!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFEr4o3sp7U