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Author Topic: Lenzless resonant transformer  (Read 108051 times)

Offline Jack Noskills

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Re: Lenzless resonant transformer
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2014, 08:37:12 AM »

Problem is that impedance is not high enough in your primary. The wire that earlier was used as primary was on looped core. Looped core has much higher impedance than rod core so now your primary is leaking. Even if you don't put anything in the output, idle current is still way too high.


Did you test with load ? If so, are you sure you connected the output wires correctly together ? When they are wrong there is nothing going in the load.
Voltage increases when power is taken. You can verify this by putting voltmeter in one output coil and then short the other output. Amperage also increases. Do these tests using your 12 volt setup.


If you can add turns to your primary and later test using 120 volts, then put current limiter in your primary side. A capacitor or a light bulb. Then your primary does not get hot if impedance is not high enough.


Yesterday I tested using shorter primary using resonance and it did not work. If you frequency is fixed to 60 Hz then only way to increase impedance is to add more turns in your primary.


For me this has worked best when impedance in primary is high even without capacitors. When I found suitable amount of turns I try with capacitor.


Now I am not sure if there is turns ratio that controls the output or something else. There is clearly turns ratio in effect when capacitors are not used.


So far my output power levels are low, atmost 15 watts out, a guess. I don't know if this can be scaled up, but if I can get it close to 30 watts then it is good enough to power a PC. At the moment it is good enough to power a cell phone.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Lenzless resonant transformer
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2014, 08:37:12 AM »

Offline kingscom

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Re: Lenzless resonant transformer
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2014, 10:00:23 AM »
Hi Jack Noskills

I am new member and i am interesting to see a snapshot of one of ur current project, u can use a camera phone to take a picture, it will give a lot of idea what u discribe on ur pdf, with picture, i mean real project picture it will help to figure out there idea what u r doing,

Can i use iron core or ferrite core, which one is best to use? or fly back core, i have a flyback core in attachmemt can u check it can be use.

thanks

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline verpies

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Re: Lenzless resonant transformer
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2014, 02:14:38 AM »
This proves that my setup is good enough to detect changes in power usage at the source. So, if I can light up 18 watt worth of light without a sign of light in the primary side tells me something good is going on here.
Wrong.

Penno64's video should've made you realize where the error is.

Offline Jack Noskills

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Re: Lenzless resonant transformer
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2014, 07:58:55 AM »
Wrong.

Penno64's video should've made you realize where the error is.


I watched the video and did not notice any error, can you explain what was wrong ?
Any idea what would happen in the primary when the load is disconnected ? Would primary go out of resonance and light there would lit up again ?


Offline Jack Noskills

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Re: Lenzless resonant transformer
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2014, 08:09:20 AM »
Hi Jack Noskills

I am new member and i am interesting to see a snapshot of one of ur current project, u can use a camera phone to take a picture, it will give a lot of idea what u discribe on ur pdf, with picture, i mean real project picture it will help to figure out there idea what u r doing,

Can i use iron core or ferrite core, which one is best to use? or fly back core, i have a flyback core in attachmemt can u check it can be use.

thanks


If you can play with frequencies I recommend ferrite E-I. Then you can quickly make tests using less wire and learn it. With E-I there are 3 coils working together and it is better than 2 coils.


Your flyback looks fine, except there is something that look like air gap.


I started like this. First no capacitors and wound only primary. Enough turns so that impedance gets so high that current is blocked at frequency above 10 kHz. Next I put same amount of turns in secondaries and tested without capacitors. When it looked ok I started to use capacitors and look for resonance. First in secondary and then in primary to match frequency I found.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Lenzless resonant transformer
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2014, 08:09:20 AM »
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Offline verpies

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Re: Lenzless resonant transformer
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2014, 10:46:45 AM »
I watched the video and did not notice any error, can you explain what was wrong ?
Just that a light bulb is a false power indicator when it is not the load itself.
In your test, the bulb on the input side does not constitute a load - it is only in series with the load (the primary winding in this case), thus you cannot draw any conclusions about the input power based on the brightness of this bulb due to MPTT.

However, you can do so with the other bulb on the output side, because there the bulb is the load and the power measuring device, in one.

The video also shows that the input bulb is off and the output bulb is on, but the circuit still draws significant power from the sig.gen.

Any idea what would happen in the primary when the load is disconnected ? Would primary go out of resonance and light there would lit up again ?
I assume that by the word "load" you mean the bulb connected to the secondary winding.  This is not obvious because the primary LC Tank can also be considered a load to the sig.gen and the input bulb.  You must be more precise when using the word "load'.

If the secondary winding was interrupted, then it would act as if it was not there.  The impedance of the output bulb would cease to be reflected by mutual inductance to the primary winding, which would cause its apparent inductance (and inductive reactance) to increase.  This would detune the primary LC Tank from the resonance frequency and the input bulb would light up. 
You can almost see it at 3:57 when the primary winding is still over the ferrite rod but already away from the secondary.

Offline Jack Noskills

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Re: Lenzless resonant transformer
« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2014, 02:49:40 PM »
Did some testing using shorter secondaries and result was not good. I got the same behaviour as before but not much light in the output. About 90 turns primary and 22 turn secondaries, so all I got was a stepdown action.


This means no resonant rise in the output and not scalable to high power as such. Something is still missing.


I see if I get lucky with my tiny E-I ferrite, I will try to make isolated resonant LC in the middle and use the other two coils for load, also resonance there.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Lenzless resonant transformer
« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2014, 02:49:40 PM »
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Offline Jack Noskills

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Re: Lenzless resonant transformer
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2014, 02:22:23 PM »

I finished playing with the ferrite E-I. I used 200 turns in each coil, also the primary had about 200 turns. Best results I got when I placed capacitor in the middle of the ferrite so it formed an isolated tank circuit. Other two secondaries were connected together via another capacitor, same setup as before.


I could vary the inductance of the middle coil, 50, 150 or 200 turns. I also varied capacitors and tuned whole system as a whole. There was always a sweet spot and when the drive frequency was the same then shorting the output had no effect on source. Also putting a load had no effect on source. I was unable to tune the primary but still it worked well.


Side lobes of the ferrite core were 3mm x 8mm and about 50 turns fitted in it. Middle was 6mm x 8mm. My source had 5 watt halogen and no light there while output was 10 watt halogen and almost full brightness.


I tried the same using bigger nanoperm core but it was not as good as the tiny ferrite. So E-I is much more efficient than toroid since there are three coils working together instead of two.


Now I wish I had a scope so I could see the voltage waveform in the isolated tank compared to voltage waveform of the output when the whole system is tuned.

Offline wistiti

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Re: Lenzless resonant transformer
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2014, 08:17:56 PM »
Hi jack!
How do you connect the load on the primary serial or paralele with the source?
I gave it a try with a tv yoke this weekend but did not acheive great result :(

Offline Jack Noskills

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Re: Lenzless resonant transformer
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2014, 09:32:47 AM »
There is a picture in the PDF how to tune output part and when tuned how to connect the load.


Were you able to find resonance at both sides ? It does not work well without resonance. Also if you find resonance but there is not enough turns in your primary it also does not work well.


A good starting point is to 1:1 ratio with all coils and enough turns in your primary so it blocks current flow without capacitor. Then you can begin to explore it, you will have a working baseline setup to compare against and see what is good and what is bad. Start from low voltage so it is safe to handle. Gain knowledge of it and then gradually increase voltage.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Lenzless resonant transformer
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2014, 09:32:47 AM »
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Offline Jack Noskills

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Re: Lenzless resonant transformer
« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2014, 09:24:28 AM »
Updated pdf with some new information after some testing.


Does anyone have a 1:1 transformer and some capacitors laying around ? If so, then you should read chapter 6 and do the simple resonance test described there. You should get reverse operation of transformer: more power you take, less power will be used.

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Lenzless resonant transformer
« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2014, 09:51:48 AM »
Updated pdf with some new information after some testing.


Does anyone have a 1:1 transformer and some capacitors laying around ? If so, then you should read chapter 6 and do the simple resonance test described there. You should get reverse operation of transformer: more power you take, less power will be used.

That's an effect of increased Lenz effect at no load which is reduced by the load due to less tank current when loaded. Definitely not Lenzless. It's the same effect as the acceleration under load and it's next to useless. Show us some input and output power measurements. Or the difference in power available when in that mode and when not like I do in this video. near the end I show it can power loads when used in a reasonable manner.

Video clip of reduced input when loaded of transformer, a big reduction, but the output is limited by doing that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zxde9qga79c


I've got almost 150 video experiments in the bank and 1000's actually done, and I take some measurements although usually I'm not as interested in accurate measurements as getting to the truth and understanding the effects.
..

Cheers


Offline Jack Noskills

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Re: Lenzless resonant transformer
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2014, 09:58:48 AM »
I did not say that circuit in chapter 6 is lenzless. I just think that it is interesting effect.


I could measure the heat of the halogens at both sides using a thermal scanner, but it would not be very accurate. It is enough that primary halogen does not burn my finger but the output halogen does.


EDIT:
I briefly watched the video, not all of it as I don't have time at the moment. Nice setup indeed and I see you are a pro. Good.


You did not use resonant caps in this test ? Have you done setup that is similar to what I did (the chapter 6 circuit) in some other builds ?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2014, 01:03:56 PM by Jack Noskills »

Offline Jack Noskills

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Re: Lenzless resonant transformer
« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2014, 03:12:54 PM »
Realized that editing existing post does not trigger notification, so Farmhand, can you answer my questions ?


My input halogen was 5 watt/12 volt and output 10 watt/12 volt.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Jack Noskills

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Re: Lenzless resonant transformer
« Reply #44 on: February 20, 2014, 08:56:50 AM »
Test done by itsu, testing resonance effect in a toroid using two similar overlapped coils. Differs from my tests where coils were separate and on opposite sides of the toroid. But an interesting test result still.


[/font]Ok,  i toke a shot at this.Single ferrite core (6.5cm od) dual speaker wire (stranded 22 awg) wound twice around the whole circumference meaning 60 turns.So we have a primary coil of 60 turns with 4mH and 0.2 Ohm and a secondary coil with 4mH and 0.2 Ohm.2 capacitors of 220nF are attached to both coils which should give us a resonance frequency of about 5.3KHz according to http://www.1728.org/resfreq.htm. Measurements confirm this, but resonance is very broad. Bulbs used are 6V.It turns out that in this situation we do not have a synchronious resonance on the primary and secondaryPrimary resonance (input bulb off) is at 2.9KHz, while secondary resonance (output bulb lit) is at 7.8KHz.Using another set of capacitors (7nF) shows similar behaviour, but on a higher frequency.I think this is not the correct thread for this, but i leave it to jack if he want to move this to one of his own threads on this subject.Video here:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOX0tqgnD_w&feature=youtu.beRegards Itsu
[/font]


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Lenzless resonant transformer
« Reply #44 on: February 20, 2014, 08:56:50 AM »

 

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