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Author Topic: Engineering  (Read 5801 times)

Offline philm

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Engineering
« on: January 10, 2014, 05:11:11 AM »
Good  evening everyone,


For an engineering project that I am required to do in class, I will be replicating the Stanley Meyer Water Fuel Cell. For my proposal, my adviser would like me to show proof as to way the Meyer cell is better then regular DC electrolysis. As in, why would I want to build a meyer cell over DC electrolysis. What are some benefits of doing this (of course, I have to back this up with evidence, whether it be data or a quote from a creditable source)


I do know that the Meyer cell produces more hydrogen in a given time and uses less power. But does anyone on the forum have any source material which states that? Or any source material at all showing that the meyer cell is better then DC electrolysis?

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Engineering
« on: January 10, 2014, 05:11:11 AM »

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Engineering
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2014, 05:43:30 AM »
You should be aware, if you aren't already, that certain electrolysis cell designs will actually boil the water between the plates, adding a lot of water vapor/steam volume to the "gas" output, without actually electrolysing this water. To get a valid gas output measurement you need to make sure that you aren't boiling water, even in tiny spots between electrodes, and that your output gases are thoroughly dried before the volume/flow measurements are made. Excess gas in the form of plain old water vapor has fooled researchers before, into thinking their cells made a high volume of hydrogen and oxygen. This can happen even if the bulk electrolyte seems cool.

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Offline philm

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Re: Engineering
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2014, 04:53:04 AM »
Tinsel, I was not aware of that, thank you. I will look out for that in my cells. Although , according to Stan's memos, he said that he was using less than 2 mA of current. I doubt that this would provide enough heat to boil water. If that is the case then we just found a new source of free energy.
 
Now I know that some people will come and post on the forum about stuff and they are not serious. Here are 4 pictures of a small scale prototype that I built today. I will use this for immediate testing until a much larger one is built.

Offline philm

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Re: Taking on WFC as Engineering Project
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2014, 12:09:36 AM »
Good evening everyone,

I do have an update today. I received the metal for the electrodes. I am building it according to Stan Meyer. 0.75 in OD tube and 0.50 in OD tube. I am attaching a picture of the two tubes. I hope you all enjoy!


Oh and in case you were wondering, both of the tubes are 20 feet long


Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: Engineering
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2014, 02:44:27 AM »
Try electrolysis of water with sodium cathode and platinum or carbon anode which donot dissolve under positive potential.
 
Sodium is a highly reactive metal which readily reacts with water releasing hydrogen and sodium hydroxide. But if you maintain negative potential on sodium, it will not get dissolved in water. Instead, the hydrogen ions surrounding the sodium cathode react among themselves releasing large quantities of hydrogen.
 
Sodium is not readily availalbe in market because it is a highly unstable and reactive metal. You have to prepare sodium in laboratory and preserve it by immersing it in a non reactive liquid like kerosene or petrol.
 
If you have facilities in your college to prepare sodium,  just try and see.
 

 

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Re: Engineering
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2014, 02:44:27 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Engineering
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2014, 03:46:56 AM »
Good  evening everyone,


For an engineering project that I am required to do in class, I will be replicating the Stanley Meyer Water Fuel Cell. For my proposal, my adviser would like me to show proof as to way the Meyer cell is better then regular DC electrolysis. As in, why would I want to build a meyer cell over DC electrolysis. What are some benefits of doing this (of course, I have to back this up with evidence, whether it be data or a quote from a creditable source)


I do know that the Meyer cell produces more hydrogen in a given time and uses less power. But does anyone on the forum have any source material which states that? Or any source material at all showing that the meyer cell is better then DC electrolysis?
On what data do you base your belief that Meyer's pulsing was better than DC electrolysis?

Offline philm

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Re: Engineering
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2014, 10:19:26 PM »
On what data do you base your belief that Meyer's pulsing was better than DC electrolysis?


I was not able to find data which is what I was hoping the community would be able to help me on; however, I did find this quote:


"Dave Lawton's success in constructing a working VERSION of the Meyer WFC was
reported to produce gas at 3x the Faradic equivalent rate for the power consumed."




From this source: http://www.esmhome.org/library/stan-meyer/ravi.pdf

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Re: Engineering
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2014, 10:19:26 PM »
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Offline philm

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Re: Engineering
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2014, 05:12:37 AM »
Hello everyone,


Here are some pictures of the cell we are building. Now, all of the pieces are there. We need to do a tad bit of cleaning up and some machining to finish it off. Little things here and there


But, this will be what it looks like after everything is pressed together and bolted.


I hope you will enjoy!


(Also, if the pictures are too big for you, please let me know and I will down convert them for you!

Offline MarkE

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Re: Engineering
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2014, 06:22:56 AM »
Tinsel, I was not aware of that, thank you. I will look out for that in my cells. Although , according to Stan's memos, he said that he was using less than 2 mA of current. I doubt that this would provide enough heat to boil water. If that is the case then we just found a new source of free energy.
 
Now I know that some people will come and post on the forum about stuff and they are not serious. Here are 4 pictures of a small scale prototype that I built today. I will use this for immediate testing until a much larger one is built.
Power boils, current electrolyzes. So, yes it is very possible by simply applying enough voltage that one can boil a lot and electrolyze a little. 

Some of your center tubes look off center enough from their corresponding outer tubes that shorts look possible.  You might want to use some dabs of wax or hot glue to enforce concentricity without blocking the gas path.

Offline philm

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Re: Engineering
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2014, 06:13:33 PM »
MarkE,


Thank you for the clarification. I will definitely be keeping this in mind!


Concerning the off center ness, yes that is true. I did actually forget to add this in my post but this was a simple testing fit. There is still a little bit of machining that needs to be done and we did this simply to get an idea of how everything was going to come together. So, it still needs to be taken apart and everything is not tighten down. For example, on the top of the inner electrodes, we are going to machine wrench flats so that we can hold the top with a wrench and screw from the bottom. After putting this together I can figure out why Stan put slit on the top of the outer electrode and if you look closely, there is a hole at the top of the inner electrode. Now, I believe that this allowed him to place a rod there and hold the inner electrode in place as he was tightening the bolt at the bottom. After working on this, that would make the most sense. Now, it is totally possible that there were other reasons. Yes, we are thinking about a way to ensure that the inner electrode does not touch the outer electrode.


Now, if you compare this cell to Stans demonstration unit, they will look eerily familiar, that is because we literally based off of our design from what stan did for the demonstration unit. The tubes on the other hand we got the dimensions from his technical briefing, Birth of a New Technology. It appears that the tubes he recommended in that paper and what is in the demonstration unit are different dimensions. Mainly, the length was different. There are some minor modifications that we did. For example, we did NOT thread in bolt holes into the acrylic. Bad idea. The only part that is threaded is top caps which contain the bushings for the fill port and the gas outlet. And even then, those bushings are permanently sealed in so, if we dismantle anything, we would be screwing and unscrewing on the metal threads rather the plastic threads.


Concerning our inner tube, the wall thickness was thick enough that we were able to directly thread the tube rather then welding a nut to the bottom which is what stan did.

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Re: Engineering
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2014, 06:13:33 PM »
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Offline philm

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Re: Engineering
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2014, 06:15:56 PM »
Also, I really do not like how the pictures are so huge! It is annoying me. I think that at some point, I am going to be reducing the resolution. Does anyone have a recommend resolution that would be suitable?


However, would anyone know how I can attach the picture so that it will be a downloadable attachment rather then having it post like how it is? A little off topic but that size a really getting annoying. I apologize to everyone.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Engineering
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2014, 07:19:59 PM »
Also, I really do not like how the pictures are so huge! It is annoying me. I think that at some point, I am going to be reducing the resolution. Does anyone have a recommend resolution that would be suitable?


However, would anyone know how I can attach the picture so that it will be a downloadable attachment rather then having it post like how it is? A little off topic but that size a really getting annoying. I apologize to everyone.
The pictures are downloadable as they are.  In FF just right click while hovering over one.   You can crop and/or down sample as needed.  pictures that end up being 1280x1024 or less are generally preferred.  Pictires that are a lot larger than that can gum up the forum.


Offline philm

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Re: Engineering
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2014, 08:37:55 PM »
Well, unless I am missing something, I can't seem to find the edit button on my post with the large pictures. I an locate it on my other posts but not those. I am very sorry for posting large pictures. I am going to repost them down here. Smaller ones - 75% smaller. So please, tell your friends that the small pics are at the end of the post.


To the admins,


Can you please remove the large pictures for me?


Also, when the admins remove the pictures and if you are interested in the originals, then PM me and I will send them to you

Offline MarkE

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Re: Engineering
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2014, 09:04:02 PM »
Posts are only editable for a few hours.  After about a day they are locked.

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