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Author Topic: Asymmetric Magnetomotive Tugger (shortly: AMT)  (Read 20113 times)

Offline ageofmagnetizm

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Asymmetric Magnetomotive Tugger (shortly: AMT)
« on: December 26, 2013, 04:43:06 PM »
Asymmetric Magnetomotive Tugger (shortly: AMT)



Short video of testing of magnetomotive behaviors of
prototype at:   http://youtu.be/RfwOWbvO9GU




"Above is drawing where green vectors indicates direction of
magnetomotive forces measured along plane of interaction
of magnetomotive train build of three AMTs. Near placed
magnetic fields integrate and vectors of forces..."



I have disclosed the conceptual designs of AMTs at:
https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/magnetorefractive/geomagnetic/magnetomachanical/asymmetric-magnetomotive-tuggers


Now everybody can read about it, make own experiments and discussing it here on the OVERUNITY.         
Taras Leskiv - the inventor of Asymmetric Magnetomotive Tuggers.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline ageofmagnetizm

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Re: Asymmetric Magnetomotive Tugger (shortly: AMT)
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2014, 03:25:23 PM »
Design of Asymmetric Magnetomotive Tuggers allows building of count-parallel Magnetomotive Trains and autonomous Magnetomotive Fields Propulsion Systems.



Attached here picture shows section of Magnetomotive Fields Propulsion System where Magnets continuously producing magnetic flux which is
continuously absorbing, conducting and re-emitting by Ferromagnetic Conducting Loops having its walls covered by Dia-magnetic Deflecting Lattices which continuously incline flux so that vectors of magnetomotive forces along Lattices become parallel to each others and un-perpendicular to outer walls of Propulsion System.


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Asymmetric Magnetomotive Tugger (shortly: AMT)
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2014, 03:48:49 PM »
Too bad it doesn't work. Your video shows it returning only the energy you have stored in the "magnetic spring" by your "cocking" of the device with your hand.

You have invented yet another "SMOT" that gives back only the energy you put into it. Your field line drawings are wrong, and there is no net propulsive force around the loop.

If you look at my work with the Simple NON Overunity Toy called "HappyFunBall" you will see how you can determine the kinetic energy of your rotor and whether or not any of your magnet arrangements are helping or hurting your performance. But for your device it is even simpler than SNOT.
Take away all the "stator magnets" from your device, and spin the rotor, whose mass you know, to a measured RPM using some external power source. This will allow you to know the Kinetic Energy of the spinning rotor. Time the time it takes for the rotor to come to a stop once you remove the driving power. Now you can calculate the _power dissipation_  of the baseline, rotor-only configuration. Then you can put your stator magnets back in place. Now spin the rotor up to the same RPM as before and start your timer. Does it take longer to come to a stop now, or does it come to a stop faster?

Get the idea? If you can show _any_ arrangements of rotor/stator magnets that takes _longer_ to run down from a known RPM than the simple, rotor-only test... then I'd be very interested in seeing it.

Offline ageofmagnetizm

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Re: Asymmetric Magnetomotive Tugger (shortly: AMT)
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2014, 11:01:50 AM »


 Your field line drawings are wrong,



« Reply:   Your field line drawings are wrong...   »


All published by me drawings of geometries of magnetomotive forces - are results of numerous and careful measurements of magnitudes and directions of forces. If you state that my measurements are wrong, than please, place here photo of your measured results of similar magnetomotive structure, or place here a link to explanations of such measurements.


Also I shall learn about your "Toy called "HappyFunBall" to determine your technical level - such considering how to answer to the rest of your statements and suggestions.


Thanks for replay, TinselKoala.


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Asymmetric Magnetomotive Tugger (shortly: AMT)
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2014, 12:40:38 PM »
You need to know my "technical level" in order for you to understand and perform the following simple test... which I will wager you have _never done_?

Quote
Take away all the "stator magnets" from your device, and spin the rotor, whose mass you know, to a measured RPM using some external power source. This will allow you to know the Kinetic Energy of the spinning rotor. Time the time it takes for the rotor to come to a stop once you remove the driving power. Now you can calculate the _power dissipation_  of the baseline, rotor-only configuration. Then you can put your stator magnets back in place. Now spin the rotor up to the same RPM as before and start your timer. Does it take longer to come to a stop now, or does it come to a stop faster?

Now, please tell my what MY "technical  level" has to do with YOU performing and reporting this simple test.




Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Asymmetric Magnetomotive Tugger (shortly: AMT)
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2014, 12:40:38 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Asymmetric Magnetomotive Tugger (shortly: AMT)
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2014, 04:41:41 PM »
Having trouble finding my videos? Here's a couple of illustrations of my "technical level", to help you decide whether I am worthy enough to criticize your apparatus:

HappyFunBall SNOT with Arduino display of velocity and Kinetic Energy of ball. (recent work from a few months ago)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4num28k4EnA

The Mylow HJMotor test bed, unpowered rundown calibration run. (from several years ago)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mhs5nnRSB4

With a device containing a rotor (instead of a ball) and stator magnets, the process of determining the KE of the moving rotor, what its power dissipation per turn is, and how much energy must be added by any "gate" or "stator" arrangement for the rotor to turn perpetually, is essentially the same as what I've done here. By weighing the ball accurately and measuring its velocity as it goes through my sensing gate, I know the ball's KE at that instant. Your computation will be a little more complicated since you are dealing with an odd-shaped rotating rotor, but I'm sure your "technical level" is up to calculating the rotor's MoI from masses and geometries. Hence you will know, just as I know for my SNOT, your rotor's dissipation of mechanical energy as it turns. Hence you will know just how much energy you need to replace, "from somewhere", for your rotor to keep turning. Now, when you place your stators in place and perform an "unpowered rundown" you will be able to see, very easily, whether or not your stator assemblies hurt or help.

Or, if you have a system like I have in HappyFunBall SNOT, you can know exactly what energy you need to supply to your (stators removed) rotor to keep it rotating at a constant RPM. Then, with stators in place, supplying this same energy from outside, you will see (I predict) a slower stable RPM than you saw without the stators in place.

I predict that your stators will actually _slow down_ your rotor, by adding drag; they will never increase its speed or Kinetic Energy.

Now.... let's try to determine what _your_ "technical level" really is. It should take no more than an afternoon for you to perform and video this simple test, and you don't even need any fancy instrumentation like an Arduino and a photocell. You just need some way to apply the same starting input energy to the rotor each time (I'm sure your "technical level" is up to this challenge; if not, I or others here can help you with that) and an accurate method of timing the rundown times. (Even the videocamera's time stamp or frame rate will be sufficiently accurate here.)

Offline ageofmagnetizm

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Re: Asymmetric Magnetomotive Tugger (shortly: AMT)
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2014, 10:56:29 AM »

Are you asking me about your favorite method of testing, or you stating


that something is "to bad" because that you do not know about achieved results of all different testing including you favorite one?
Is not it logical to ask before and conclude after knowing the results?
Also, I can not find your publications on "artificial geometries of


magnetomotive forces".
Now I shall learn your explanations of your "Toy called "HappyFunBall",


which you encourage to look at - as an argument of your statements.


Just be cool TinselKoala, and do not forget in-scripting links to referred


documents.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Asymmetric Magnetomotive Tugger (shortly: AMT)
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2014, 10:56:29 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Asymmetric Magnetomotive Tugger (shortly: AMT)
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2014, 03:59:00 PM »
Perhaps you can explain just what is wrong with my suggested test above, and why you won't perform it.

And perhaps you cannot.

 I predict, again, that your rotor, without any stators, will take longer to run down from a known RPM, than it will take to run down from the same RPM with all your stators in place. This test will show, I predict, that your magnet arrangement is creating _drag_, not providing any advantage.

If you think otherwise, it would be a simple matter for you to PROVE ME WRONG by doing the test yourself, and publishing the video showing your work.

You can insult me all you like, but until you provide some actual data supporting your claims, nobody will believe you. I've given you a very simple experiment to perform that would go a _long way_ towards supporting your claims IF you could only show a longer rundown time with stators than without. But of course.... you cannot.

I don't care one whit about your simulation results or your explanations. Just show me the results from a _REAL EXPERIMENT_ where you compare relevant conditions to see their effects.  Don't worry about me.... I won't be holding my breath waiting for real data from you.

Offline ageofmagnetizm

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Re: Asymmetric Magnetomotive Tugger (shortly: AMT)
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2014, 01:51:34 PM »

Why should I worry about someone who can not behave self nicely.
I've started this topic for discussion of:
Asymmetric Magnetomotive Tuggers - which are devices producing artificial and utilizable


geometries of magnetomotive forces explained on my web-site at:
https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/magnetorefractive/


geomagnetic/magnetomachanical/asymmetric-magnetomotive-tuggers
Occasionally I'd like to discuss similar structures of complex magnetic permeability.
The article explaining of constructions and functions of said AMTs include explanation of


magnetomotive trains and two (out of numerous) testing of proof-of-concept prototypes,


which I consider valuable and worth for discussion here. All other testings I consider of


lesser values and unworthy for any considerations.
If you or someone else will ask me why these testing are more important than others - than


I'll gladly explain why. If you or someone else want to discuss something else than I recomend to


do it elsewhere.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Asymmetric Magnetomotive Tugger (shortly: AMT)
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2014, 02:03:17 PM »
Quote
Now everybody can read about it, make own experiments and discussing it here on the OVERUNITY.         
Taras Leskiv - the inventor of Asymmetric Magnetomotive Tuggers.

Sound familiar?

You refuse to perform the simple experiment I described. This means to me that you _know_ that there is nothing unusual, nothing in the least bit "overunity" about your device. You don't want to "discuss" or to "experiment", really, you just want people to go "ooh" and "ahh" for you.

When someone with "technical level" challenges you, you do what every other bogus claimant does: Instead of performing simple, proper experiments that illustrate the validity of your claims, you refuse to cooperate and you start in with the insults. Let me tell you something: How I behave has NOTHING AT ALL TO DO with the fact that YOU aren't providing support for your contentions, and the other fact that YOU are refusing to perform a simple experiment that would actually test your claims.

Quote
All other testings I consider of
lesser values and unworthy for any considerations.

In other words, any testings that _actually test_ your claims..... you consider unworthy. Here you place yourself into your own chosen category: Magnet motor builders who refuse to do anything that might potentially falsify their contentions.

Why are you so afraid to perform the simple test I outlined for you? Isn't your "technical level" up to it? Or.... is it because you KNOW already what will happen? Why don't you take this excellent opportunity to PROVE ME WRONG? I know why.... it is because you cannot.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Asymmetric Magnetomotive Tugger (shortly: AMT)
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2014, 02:03:17 PM »
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Offline ageofmagnetizm

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Re: Asymmetric Magnetomotive Tugger (shortly: AMT)
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2014, 04:07:55 PM »

Out of that large collection of sentences, you've produced above - I conclude that you have not read my publication where testing of prototypes are explained, instead you are reflecting on "watching" of supplemental videos which you have interpolated with your own experience.


Not willing to copy part of web-page here - I only explain that presented testing produced by placing of parallel magnetomotive trains so that its middles are coinciding what cause clock-wise motion of rotor, and when middles are manually returned to coincide, than clock-wise motion is produced again. If middle of rotor is manually forced count-clock-wise then rotor always  moves clock-wise, what does not occur when this middle stays oppositely. This manifest asymmetry of magnetomotive potentials produced by AMTs which produce artificial geometry of magnetic fields between rotor and stator where most vectors of forces are uniformly tangential to radius of rotor what causes generation of  torque.

Offline dieter

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Re: Asymmetric Magnetomotive Tugger (shortly: AMT)
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2014, 10:09:50 AM »
I have to say, It seemed pretty much insulting to me how ageofm's Topic was nullified in the 2nd posting. Although I had no success in using diamagnets to obtain that imbalance, it sounds interesting. You can't just say "uh, you are unwilling to disassemble your device to do my experiment, so you must be a scammer". That's just not fair. Even tho, if a rotor does brake more in one direction than in the other does not prove OU, it is nevertheless highly interesting behaviour in a device that has only magnetical contact between stator and rotor (other than the axis).


Offline ageofmagnetizm

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Re: Asymmetric Magnetomotive Tugger (shortly: AMT)
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2014, 04:54:58 PM »

Quote of TinselCoala from above:
 <<You refuse to perform the simple experiment I described.>>


This Topic was started as supplemental to my publication, because that published


Asymmetric Magnetomotive Tuggers are explained in words supposed to be


understandable for general audience, and its very naturally that some people could need


additional explanations, such posting questions here.


Those argues with TinselCoala allowed me to realize that the web-site-explanation of


proof-of-concept devices - can be better with simple drawing-scheme representing three


different stages of experiments manifesting three different magnetomotive  potentials.


Hence I have produced such scheme attached below.
Drawing consists of three simplified representations of 4-AMTs units of train secured


stationary and 3-AMTs units train allowed to move parallel to static train. Green lines


between trains indicates directions of magnetomotive forces between trains, and arrows


indicate direction of motion resulting from attraction between trains of opposite magnetic


polarities.

The uppermost scheme of drawing demonstrates that dynamic train moves left-ward when


right-edges of both trains are aligned, and bottom scheme - demonstrates that alignment of


left-edges of trains manifest zero-magnetomotive-potential. Most important is middle-scheme


of drawing where middles of trains are aligned and dynamic train manifests motion


left-ward... During testings of numerous simplier vertions of AMTs - similar testing were


manifesting motionless trains when its middles were coinsiding, and currently achieved


results mean that it is not necessary to conduct comparative testings by revolving rotor


clock-wise and count-clock-wise, or comparing rotors revolution with- and without stator.
Comparative testing is already unnecessary because that numerous and various prototypes


have produced direct manifestations which can be perceived directly without application of


deductive methods.


U-u-h! Instead of wasting time by entertains of TinselCoala - I decide to continue on


improvements of AMTs for achieving greater inclination of magnetomotive forces and


decreasing weight of current versions... then I plan to build full-scale prototypes of different


variants of different utilities.


If someone is building or deciding to build any experimental models of constructions of


complex magnetic permeability - than I'll be glad to learn about results, and glad to share my


experience achieved through last ten years of building and measuring of thousands of


variants of said constructions.


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Asymmetric Magnetomotive Tugger (shortly: AMT)
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2014, 05:28:42 PM »
If what you believe about your system is true, then it would be trivial to arrange it in a circle and produce a continuously-running device. But you cannot.

All you have actually done is to place two magnets in attraction, and restricted their possible motions by your mechanical arrangement. What I say is still True: your system does not produce a continuous unidirectional thrust, it only attracts to a magnetic potential "valley" and sticks there. It returns the energy you put in by "cocking" it, and nothing more.

IF your system produced any excess energy, or created a real unidirectional thrust, you could show it very easily AND UNEQUIVOCALLY by doing the simple experiment I suggested. It would take you less time and effort to do it, than you put into your last post. But you won't... because you know that your claims are false.

Or, if you like, you could explain why my suggested experiment _won't_ show your excess energy or unidirectional thrust, even though you believe it to be there... thus giving you a reasonable excuse for not performing it.... and adding greatly to the amusement of the more knowledgeable readers here.


Ten years and thousands of constructions.... and you still haven't built a self-runner? You still haven't been able to close the simple loop, just by wrapping "P1" around into a circle? You still have not provided ANY force measurements, any energy measurements, any real data? I feel sorry for you, wasting all that time and money.



Offline dieter

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Re: Asymmetric Magnetomotive Tugger (shortly: AMT)
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2014, 06:39:11 PM »
To be honest, Koala, I am not sure if the wheell would ever have been invented if you were around back then   ;D . This is discouraging, where persistence is required.


Not long ago, diamagnetic levitation or the levitron was considered and declared impossible and violating eg. maxwells "laws". We are human, we change the rules. We fly, we transmutate elements, we defibrilate the dead... We change the rules. And one day we may have a working PMM. Maybe not, but we need to keep on experimenting. I don't see less sense in it than in, eg. playing with an RC Helicopter.


As I see, there are those diamagnetic elements, they may add a factor that is capable of adding a twist to the parallelisation tendency of the ferromagnetic field. And with such a twist, even a static fields arrangement may cause a torque.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Asymmetric Magnetomotive Tugger (shortly: AMT)
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2014, 06:39:11 PM »

 

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