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Author Topic: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!  (Read 32110 times)

Offline tim123

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2013, 11:59:53 AM »
Hi Xee,
  it's not 30KV Ac - it's pulsed. The HV is taken out when the input power stops - and the collapsing field give you the HV - just as in a standard car arrangement.

Having the 2 coils, should double the output voltage, but I've not done a comparison to see if it's much better than just one. It does deliver a good current...

I've been looking at voltage multiplier circuits, but they do need a decent AC input to start off with... If I reconfigured the car coils - I'd only get maybe 5KV AC to start with...

I think the way to build an effective 'flyin saucer', would be a tribelectric / wimshurst hybrid - I'll try to find the patent I have in mind...

In the meantime - this page has some good info on electrostatic propulsion:

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/tesla/lostjournals/lostjournals06.htm

PS: "Thomas Townsend Brown... built a special capacitor which utilized a heavy, high charge-accumulating (high K-factor) dielectric material between its plates and found that when charges with between 70,000 to 300,000 volts, it would move in the direction of its positive pole. When oriented with its positive side up, it would proceed to lose about one percent of it's weight."

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Offline gauschor

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2013, 05:54:30 PM »
Small link also here (though only the last 3 pages 36-38 of interest, it's a letter from Townsend to J. Naudin describing some things: http://www.scribd.com/doc/20640883/Force-on-an-Asymmetric-Capacitor-Antigravity-Ufo-Army-Report-Arl-Tr-3005

I noted that Townsend wrote that at 150KV+ substantial force is experienced and that when he mentioned 50KV in reality he meant 50-250KV.

Btw. somewhere else I found information that experiments with this antigravity capacitor have happened since 1954 or so... unbelievable that now - 70 years later we still use aircraft using outdated propulsion mechanisms - and while they work, they are more dangerous due to their rotating/moving parts and most likely require even more power. But that's just a guess.

Hail to the internet as eventually hidden knowledge comes to the surface. It was much easier to keep things secret in the past.

Offline gauschor

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2013, 01:30:39 PM »
It would be awesome, if we could create a levitating effect on a cap the size of a toy, be it lightweight like a small ping pong ball, with the power of a Wimshurst. Just to see and build upon on a non-fatal setup.

This guy uses a similar setup as Townsend: a cap hanging from atop and which moves not because of ion wind, but because of the charged cap with 27K voltage (caps are enclosed) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCWZnX3Q8_I Maybe it is possible to replicate this effect with a Wimshurst.


Offline leviterande

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #34 on: December 23, 2013, 02:29:17 PM »
gauschor , yes this video I thought  was interesting to me as well but it could very well be ion wind.. or motion of ions. Just because he enclosed it it doesn't mean that it is  air proof.

  It took a very expensive  and complicated series of tests in 1991-1992  to make a good vacuum chamber and test all the claimed TT brown effects. all configurations were tested. no motion existed when air was gone.

  The motion of all these capacitors on youtube as well as TT browns himself are the following :

-the +/-  wires
-the small leakage of  the cap itself.
The so called gravitator did move  due to the  bare +/-wires that were so thin and long...  I cant believe so many people don't know this, it is so easy,  all you need to do is test.   Yes there will be motion even if you had only two similar wires alone.  because  ions  are   catapulted from one wire to the other. When you put thick  good insulation on the wires the effect is ceased.


Doyles  claimed  capacitors are not  the same.  His caps reacted directly to gravity itself upwards..

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #34 on: December 23, 2013, 02:29:17 PM »
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Offline gauschor

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #35 on: December 23, 2013, 07:28:36 PM »
  It took a very expensive  and complicated series of tests in 1991-1992  to make a good vacuum chamber and test all the claimed TT brown effects. all configurations were tested. no motion existed when air was gone.

This is the thing which confuses me... on the hand they say no motion exists in a vacuum, but continue the experiments claiming that air ions are not the reason for when it moves. What is it now  ???

Or is this effect still dependent on air "somehow" (due to inexplicable reasons), although the ion wind is not the primary reason for it? (just to get the understanding right)

Offline leviterande

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #36 on: December 23, 2013, 09:59:08 PM »
Hello again, just to clear some things up, you don't need air to see thrust of course, all you need is  transportation of matter.  this is why there was  forces observed in some tests in the super vacuum tests.   These strange forces were only with a violent  spark discharge which is a transportation of matter, ions,  molecules, emissions etc...  In any case and at any rate these  forces were not exactly big, they  were around 2x10-4 uN,   iirc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #36 on: December 23, 2013, 09:59:08 PM »
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Offline leviterande

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #37 on: December 24, 2013, 02:41:21 PM »
Hi everyone

I am having a conversation with the editor of the published Doyle article himself.  After discussing my and his thoughts we shared the same opinion that it could be down to one single possible key:

In order for the capacitor to lose weight, the rectified  feeding DC should have as much ripple as possible, that is it should be simply half wave rectified with one diode as seen in Doyle's diagram.  I know this sounds strange as it should be no difference .... but still this is the only last point I can think of.    My flyback was a DST CRT flyback and I am not sure how much ripple it had, maybe it was very smooth and therefore it didnt work. If you have therefore an ignition coil that would be the best.. just connect one diode  for the simplest rectification and highest ripple.

Regards


Offline tim123

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #38 on: December 24, 2013, 05:42:12 PM »
I am having a conversation with the editor of the published Doyle article himself.  After discussing my and his thoughts we shared the same opinion that it could be down to one single possible key:
In order for the capacitor to lose weight, the rectified  feeding DC should have as much ripple as possible,...

It's an interesting thought... So the factors are:
 1) Voltage
 2) Dielectric Relative Permittivity
 3) And potentially also: Pulse / Ripple amplitude & frequency.

I can remove the end capacitor from my HV transformer - that'll give it some ripple... I should imagine it already has a fair bit.

It seems to me that #2 needs thinking about... Air is a poor dielectric... If you look at the list of materials here, there are 2 that stand out to me:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_permittivity

 a) Water - Er of 80
 b) Calcium Copper Titanate - Er > 250,000

Doyle Buehler got by far the best results with a glass dielectric - with and Er of about 10. Not very high...

The dielectric is probably crucial. Townsend Brown developed a special dielectric - so I read.

I'm in process of making a water dielectric plate for my test capacitor... I've filled a sheet of correx with RO (reverse osmosis) water, and stuck it in the freezer. When frozen, I'll break it out of it's dish, and tape up the edges - sealing the water inside... It should be fun.

Doyle's tests did show detectable weight loss at under 30Kv, so there's a chance it might work with my HVT...

I'm intrigued by the Calcium Copper Titanate - that stuff can really store some energy... It is available to buy in the UK... With an Er of 250,000 - that's 25,000 times more than glass... If energy storage is the key to making those saucers fly - then this stuff will make it easy to build them...

Offline leviterande

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #39 on: December 24, 2013, 08:39:57 PM »
tim,  voltage and dielectric constant doesn't matter here, what matters is the energy of the  capacitor as long as you are ofcourse above 10kv.  weight loss depends on the energy stored which is a function of voltage and capacitance and you can play with these numbers as you wish.   it is just important to use redundant strong dielectric and glass is cheap, good and strong at good constant of 7.   

 I tried water for a dielectric..  hehe  you only need to try it once :)  water is a high K yes but is a very weak as an insulator and will break down right away just as good as any conductor.  If you want to shield it with any thin  sheets, that would reduce the capacitance greatly  getting you all back to square one. I used glass and it is actually   good, it is not easy to find anything available  with High k and high strength.. therefore glass was used

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #39 on: December 24, 2013, 08:39:57 PM »
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Offline tim123

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #40 on: January 01, 2014, 05:01:34 PM »
Here's a patent:

"Personal flight vehicle and system"
http://www.google.com/patents/US7182295

"The electric-energy lifting panel includes a first capacitive plate and a second capacitive plate..."

Offline d3x0r

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #41 on: January 01, 2014, 06:04:39 PM »

Army research on bitfield-brown effect...

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a416740.pdf





Offline tim123

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #42 on: January 02, 2014, 07:51:06 PM »
Army research on bitfield-brown effect...

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a416740.pdf

Excellent link, Thanks :)

Quote
In vacuum the same test was carried on with a canopy electrode approximately 6" in diameter, with substantial force being displayed at 150 kVDC

Offline tim123

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Offline gauschor

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #44 on: January 02, 2014, 11:00:33 PM »
Most of them resemble a Toepler, but I like the robust materials, even though it makes the machine heavier to rotate. I think it's a good idea to have at least one stable working handcrank device in your repository, so you can experiment with it (be it for antigravity, electrostatics or Testatika-like setups).

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #44 on: January 02, 2014, 11:00:33 PM »

 

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