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Author Topic: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!  (Read 30983 times)

Offline leviterande

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1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« on: December 17, 2013, 06:39:17 PM »
The paper from 2004:
Highly interesting yet this paper is never discussed anywhere.

http://www.space-mixing-theory.com/article2.pdf

The experiment done by Dr. Doyle Buehler on just ordinary insulated 1ft  parallel plate capacitors. polarity up or down doesn't matter. Weight is reduced. As you can see from the paper this is not ion wind, not electrostatic phenomena, not repulsion of Earths negative field. This is only real  true anti-gravity weight reduction thus far seen by me.

I have read and researched quite a bit in this field and done even more testing & experimentation with homemade relatively powerful parallel plate capacitors but not once have I got a 1gram weight change.(single plates lose weight however) Is my equipment that poor? or Doyle Buehler´s paper made up which would be very strange?

As I understand, a parallel plate capacitor/single plate capacitor should lose weight depending on its energy stored. Doyle Buehler tested different sized caps. All lost some weight. He noticed that "weight -change" increased exactly proportionally with energy stored in capacitor. In his final 7- joule cap. weight reduction of 380grams or nearly a pound was registered.

We should pursue immediate investigation into Doyle Buehlers claimed results , this is not an 93 year old experiment where all threads are lost and this is not an measuring error and the results are not tiny once -in- a- while sub 1gram, but are solid huge  weight changes.

I have contacted him but I havent got an answer from him yet.

If you have any earlier experience with this please share.
Regards

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline synchro1

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2013, 08:17:56 PM »
Honda corporation did extensive experimentation with this effect. They immersed capacitor plates in mineral oil. Although registering weight loss with charge, nothing as dramatic as reported here was noticed.


http://jnaudin.free.fr/lifters/musha/Musha.pdf


Offline leviterande

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2013, 11:20:50 PM »
Honda corporation did extensive experimentation with this effect. They immersed capacitor plates in mineral oil. Although registering weight loss with charge, nothing as dramatic as reported here was noticed.


http://jnaudin.free.fr/lifters/musha/Musha.pdf


Hi synchro1,
yes indeed, and this also confirms the whole thing.   I know this paper and I have actually long ago calculated the  energy/lift ratio stored in the Honda  capacitor and I believe it turned out roughly  the same ratio as  calculated from Doyle´s  paper  thus matching the 0.47N per J.  One  thing noted however came to my mind a couple of days ago  that may actually be the reason why I didn't get any results.   

I know this is going to sound plain wrong, but Could it be the half wave output feeding the capacitor , I mean that the feeding  of the cap was somehow oscillating. yes a cap is used for ripples so it shouldn't matter but who knows  in this area of research.  Anyway  I used a DSt Flyback.

Offline xee2

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2013, 04:39:09 AM »


leviterande,


Thanks for posting the link to the PDF. JLN Labs posted some similar effects several years ago. I tried to replicate some of the tests but did not see any change in weight.  :(


Offline d3x0r

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2013, 09:34:01 AM »
Interesting; my theory wasn't so far fetched ; far from complete but not out of the ballpark.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2013, 09:34:01 AM »
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Offline d3x0r

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2013, 11:18:52 AM »
Okay; but I don't get in the JL naudin page, how they get from electrostatic charge to electromagnetic antigravity....


in the case of [size=78%]http://www.space-mixing-theory.com/article2.pdf[/size]


single plate, positive charge, observed mass loss. Could this be a lack of electron weight? 
electrons are 1/1000'th (at most) of a proton... so the percentage couldn't be more then something like 3%... hmm so if it is copper, 29 proton, 29 electrons, 34 neutrons (oh see that mass is going to make the electron loss less significant)... like 0.01% like I started with..


so in a positive state it loses more than an electron?


Is there a conductive element that doesn't have neutrons?  Well... element that doesn't have neutrons; that would be hydrogen... and metallic hydrogen; predicted but not created... and if it was created may or may not (but is suspected to be) a stable metalic superconductor up to 290K... but noone knows... and a neutron may be required for conduction...




Offline tim123

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2013, 11:22:00 AM »
The paper from 2004:
Highly interesting yet this paper is never discussed anywhere.
http://www.space-mixing-theory.com/article2.pdf

A very interesting report. Thanks for sharing :)

From those results (assuming they're correct), it looks pretty clear that the force goes up linearly with stored energy - cool. Maybe with about 1 Megavolt you could get some serious lift...

I've played around with HV & home made glass plate caps. My HV supply is 2 car ignition coils wired opposite, big diodes & HV cap. It does about 60Kv from a 30v input. It's quite fierce... But, it's not high enough...

Because it doesn't seem to matter which polarity each plate is - they could be half and half - like a wimshurst machine... Or maybe some kind of triboelectric generator could give the massive voltage required...

:)
Tim

PS: I seem to remember a patent (Harold Aspden?) for a triboelectric flyin' saucer...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2013, 11:22:00 AM »
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Offline leviterande

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2013, 12:29:48 PM »
Can anyone  link  thos JLN labs experiments with capacitor that  you are talking about? I have known JLN labs for a long time and I dont remember he ever tried pure capacitors.. so a link is appreciated.

Tim123,  If you have some paralell plate capciotrs and a HV supply at hand all you gotta do is to charge it and see any weight changes.a digital scale may need to be shielded or you could use a traditional balance.

I encourage everyone here that have paralell plate capciotrs  and a HV source to test them!  I made tests but the more people that are testing the better we can undertand this issue.,  and this is hardly a complicated experiment, all you need is a cap and a HV source and a scale. With all due respect to Dr Doyle he is either right out loud bluffing or we have something of  most extreme importance here that we need to look into this asap.

And no, the weight loss of a postive plate isnt due to loss of electrons physical weight of course. all you need is inbalance of charge that creates  a different  unbalanced pressure in the ether, thats all :) + or - does that.

Offline tim123

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2013, 08:37:02 PM »
Tim123,  If you have some paralell plate capciotrs and a HV supply at hand all you gotta do is to charge it and see any weight changes.a digital scale may need to be shielded or you could use a traditional balance.

Hi Leviterande :)
  I have tried to make a 'lifter' using the HV supply, but it didn't work, and I gave up... Not because I don't think it'll work, on the contrary, I think it has been well proven. The Biefield-Brown effect is well known.

The reason I'm not pursuing it ATM is partly *because* it's been well proven... I know that to get any decent effect I'd need many hundreds of kilovolts - and I'm not there yet...

This has prompted me to think about it again though... I was serious about the wimshurst idea, and the triboelectric one. To make a practical device it has to be light - and produce a huge electric field...

Fortunately electrostatics is all about light materials. Glass isnt light at all though... :)

The limiting factor in these things is:
 - dielectric strength
 - voltage requirements
 - charge leakage
 - weight

Let's keep talking about it... It's interesting... I'd like to build an electrostatic machine... And I've always wanted my own flyin saucer ;)

Regards
Tim


Offline xee2

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2013, 09:14:18 PM »
Okay; but I don't get in the JL naudin page, how they get from electrostatic charge to electromagnetic antigravity....


The lifters work using Coulomb forces and ionized air.
However there are a number of experiments that do not appear to use ionized air. I found the following to be the most interesting:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/lfpt/html/espv1.htm
http://jnaudin.free.fr/lfpt/html/lfpt3xps.htm

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2013, 09:14:18 PM »
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Offline leviterande

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2013, 09:17:58 PM »
Hi Tim, hmm I am not sure if we are on the same road here ;D

 the  lifter is simply something completely different from what the 2004 paper is about.  The lifter is working on  ion wind(at least 99% of the thrust is ion wind) and thus  the  triangle lifter has to be super light and  with the very  low thrust.   no antigravity here.
However,   we are talking about genuine effects here  in the Doyle´s 2004 paper,   i.e.  typical parallel plate capacitors lose weight.  You said you used "glass plate caps" if you have some left, all you need is to put them on a scale and start testing :D!

I made  1ft 5000pf 30kv glass capacitors, charged with  flybacks and got no results but I start to believe that my equipment was poor,  I just found recently  out that my  "faraday caged digital scale" couldn't even tell 2grams from 15grams sometimes....

Good luck

Offline tim123

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2013, 10:17:41 PM »
I was under the impression that lifters also worked in a vacuum, and the effect wasn't just ion wind.

Either way - higher voltage is needed - and copper and iron weigh a lot. Teflon & Nylon (& aluminium foil) don't...

:), Tim


Offline tim123

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2013, 10:01:44 AM »
Here's a report from 2007, I just found... These mystery 'drones' look and sound a lot like asymmetric capacitors...
http://truthfall.com/weird-dragonfly-aerial-drones-the-chad-photos/

What's the power source, I wonder?

PS, it's a fascinating design... Could be faked of course, but I think some parts actually make technical sense... Like the top 'wires' of the device coming down into the center ring - where the HV source is...  Hmmm.

Offline tim123

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2013, 10:13:11 AM »
This patent for a "Rolling triboelectric generator" describes one way I think it might work:
http://www.google.com/patents/US4990813

:)
Tim

PS: Attatched is a drawing showing how it might work in the drone - only replace the 'steel rollers' with perhaps aluminium brushes for lightness...


Offline tim123

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Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2013, 06:13:07 PM »
Well, I spent the afternoon wrapping presents, and then, as I had the tape out anyway, a capacitor...

The first 3 pics show the construction of the cap.
 - Tinfoil & tape onto teflon baking sheets
 - Correx dielectric & outer case, with Duck tape.

The last pic shows it balanced on a cardboard tube, on a digital scale (1/10 g sensitive), connected to my Wimshurst machine with fine wires.

At full pelt, I get a weight change of 0.0 grams. :D

I'm not sure it it's arcing over inside - I can't tell while turning the Wimshurst.

I might try it with the HV supply - it makes a lot more current, but it may not do a high enough voltage... It needs a new oscillator on it - so I have to fix that first...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 1lb lift-force anti-gravity from ordinary charged capacitor!
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2013, 06:13:07 PM »

 

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