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Author Topic: M Drive reactionless drive invented by me  (Read 45938 times)

Offline M Drive Inventor

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M Drive reactionless drive invented by me
« on: December 08, 2013, 07:45:09 PM »
Hey all. Just thought I'd give you a heads up. I just recently released a video of my reactionless drive invention, the M Drive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYliuFLMIHY

Tell me what you think. I'm interested in hearing everyone's opinion.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: M Drive reactionless drive invented by me
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2013, 02:37:02 AM »
What about your device is new, besides using an old skateboard as a chassis?

Shipov, Thornson, Cox, Dean, Kidd, Firmage, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIt661hfr9c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9-wdV32hos

Have you ever thought about how an ice skater is able to move on the ice, since the rails of the skates against the ice make a great frictionless track? Your device is moving on its track by the same mechanisms.

To be "reactionless" there must be no pushing on the track, and your device definitely does push on the track, as you could demonstrate by putting the _track_ on another "frictionless" surface like another track or a 2-d system of balls on a flat plate. When your device lurches forward, the track it's on will be lurched backwards, thus demonstrating the reaction force between your device and its track.


Offline M Drive Inventor

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Re: M Drive reactionless drive invented by me
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2013, 03:19:20 AM »
I've replied to your post in the youtube video and I'd appreciate it if you answer me there too. Either way I'll give a slightly different reply here.

I don't know what makes you say it pushes back on the track. The 8 bearings on the M Drive runs along both the ground on the track and the walls of the track. There's no traction to speak of, and if it was, it'd be equal in both directions, so it wouldn't favor any one direction.

As for Shipov and Thornon's devices, neither of them, nor any other reactionless drive I know of, achieves the kind of thrust the M Drive does. In fact, they both seem to come to a complete stop once they're turned off, something that doesn't happen with the M Drive, suggesting it's not a "stick-slip drive".

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: M Drive reactionless drive invented by me
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2013, 07:34:22 AM »
I've replied to your post in the youtube video and I'd appreciate it if you answer me there too. Either way I'll give a slightly different reply here.

I don't know what makes you say it pushes back on the track.
Because that is the "standard" explanation for the forward motion, and Momentum is Conserved, after all. Until you can actually demonstrate that it doesn't push against the track, you are only assuming that it does not. Since nobody yet has been able to avoid Conservation of Momentum, the smart money says you haven't either, until you can provide evidence that directly speaks to the question.
Quote
The 8 bearings on the M Drive runs along both the ground on the track and the walls of the track. There's no traction to speak of,
That "to speak of" is pretty important in this context of a claim to overcome Conservation of Momentum. It cannot and must not be neglected. In an experiment I currently have running, I am dealing with differences in frictional "traction" or magnetic thrusts that come out to mere microJoules of kinetic energy. This is nothing "to speak of" but it would make the difference between a failure and a self-runner.
Quote
and if it was, it'd be equal in both directions, so it wouldn't favor any one direction.
This is clearly wrong, and I hope I don't have to explain why or how.
Quote

As for Shipov and Thornon's devices, neither of them, nor any other reactionless drive I know of, achieves the kind of thrust the M Drive does. In fact, they both seem to come to a complete stop once they're turned off, something that doesn't happen with the M Drive, suggesting it's not a "stick-slip drive".
What it suggests to me is a couple of things. First, your track might not be perfectly level, and second... once it's in motion on a _really frictionless_ smooth track, why would you expect it to stop at all, even after it's turned off? Your device comes to a complete stop too, eventually, doesn't it? Based on other things relating to structure and stability in your build, as shown in the video, I would suspect the track levelling might be an issue. You  might also be very surprised at how much "push" can be transmitted by the wires, even through wiring that seems pretty limp.

In a comment on the video I described a system that you could use to test the issue of reaction against the track. You can probably think of some as well. A simple test of this kind could be very informative. If your device pushes the track backwards at all ... then it's not reactionless, is it?


Offline M Drive Inventor

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Re: M Drive reactionless drive invented by me
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2013, 08:05:40 AM »
Quote
This is clearly wrong, and I hope I don't have to explain why or how.
I don't mean to be picky, but seeing how the entire premise of your argument relies on that, I'm afraid I'm going to have to insist.

It just seems to me you're only assuming the bearings somehow "skates" along the tracks because they're unaligned(?). All the bearings are pointed forward and if the wagon tries to move back, it has the freedom to do so, meaning they don't have the ability to push the track backwards.

Besides, the clip shown at 1:55 demonstrates a long lasting acceleration, again suggesting it's not stick-slip.

However, I'll consider giving the track the ability to move back and forth as well. Hadn't thought of that before. As a side-note, look at the first clip again. Those red wood panels on the ground under the (first) M Drive weigh significantly less than the M Drive, and can slide along the floor of my apartment with relative ease, yet they don't move an inch backwards when the M Drive moves forward.

Thanks for all your input so far.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: M Drive reactionless drive invented by me
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2013, 08:05:40 AM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: M Drive reactionless drive invented by me
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2013, 09:14:19 AM »
M-Drive please do not be offended, a reactionless drive is not possible, see this Wikipedia explanation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactionless_drive

"A reactionless drive (also known by many other names, including as an inertial propulsion engine, a reactionless thruster, a reactionless engine, a bootstrap drive or an inertia drive) is a fictional or theorized method of propulsion wherein thrust is generated without any need for an outside force or net momentum exchange to produce linear motion. The name comes from Newton's Third Law of Motion, which is usually expressed as, "[f]or every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction". Such a drive would necessarily violate the law of conservation of momentum, a fundamental principle of all current understandings of physics. In addition, it can be shown that the law of conservation of energy would be violated by a reactionless drive."

There is a long history of people who made the same conceptual error. Your machine is very well built, but without friction (even if it is very little friction) it could not work. Please study what is said in the Wikipedia explanation.

Of course you could try nevertheless, but be aware that you would have to overcome very well established physical laws (conservation of momentum, conservation of energy). One can always doubt these well established "physical laws", but you will have to show a very convincing argument and scientists will not listen to you.

I do not want to debunk you, because you built such a nice setup, but your machine has been tried many times and it always failed. You can of course say, that you do not care and that you will move on with your work anyway. But please realise that you would revolutionise physics, which is very very difficult and physics has advanced so far, that "conservation of momentum" has been proven over and over again, you could say, it is basics of physics.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline M Drive Inventor

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Re: M Drive reactionless drive invented by me
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2013, 09:28:49 AM »
One can always doubt these well established "physical laws", but you will have to show a very convincing argument and scientists will not listen to you.

Evidence will speak for it self. And if a scientist doesn't want to look at the experimental evidence because it contradicts his (or her) beliefs, then he is no real scientist.

About Newton's third law of motion though. To the best of my knowledge, it seems to have been established simply because nothing else has ever been observed. If that is the case, I have only this to say: Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Not to mention it's kind of stupid to claim we know everything. I think we did that back in the days of Newton, and we all know how well that went.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: M Drive reactionless drive invented by me
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2013, 09:28:49 AM »
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Offline LibreEnergia

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Re: M Drive reactionless drive invented by me
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2013, 12:41:55 PM »
Evidence will speak for it self. And if a scientist doesn't want to look at the experimental evidence because it contradicts his (or her) beliefs, then he is no real scientist.

About Newton's third law of motion though. To the best of my knowledge, it seems to have been established simply because nothing else has ever been observed. If that is the case, I have only this to say: Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Not to mention it's kind of stupid to claim we know everything. I think we did that back in the days of Newton, and we all know how well that went.

However, to suggest that what is shown in the video is in any way a "scientific experiment" that could legitimately provide evidence of a reactionless drive is absurd. You have not shown ANY evidence at all that the movement is not simply due to friction. Why should we believe that the track does in fact provide a frictionless surface?

Offline M Drive Inventor

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Re: M Drive reactionless drive invented by me
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2013, 02:25:00 PM »
You have not shown ANY evidence at all that the movement is not simply due to friction. Why should we believe that the track does in fact provide a frictionless surface?
Well that's certainly an opinion. If you have any arguments I'd be willing to try and counter them.

I never claimed the track was frictionless. However as stated before, the bearings (wheels) on the M Drive aren't angled or anything like that, so there's not more friction arising when it moves one way or another.

Offline LibreEnergia

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Re: M Drive reactionless drive invented by me
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2013, 02:36:03 PM »
Well that's certainly an opinion. If you have any arguments I'd be willing to try and counter them.

I never claimed the track was frictionless. However as stated before, the bearings (wheels) on the M Drive aren't angled or anything like that, so there's not more friction arising when it moves one way or another.

Obviously you are unaware that there is a difference between the static and dynamic coefficient of friction then. This will easily give rise to the ability to move in one direction using the timing of the thrusts.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: M Drive reactionless drive invented by me
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2013, 02:36:03 PM »
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Offline M Drive Inventor

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Re: M Drive reactionless drive invented by me
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2013, 03:02:37 PM »
Obviously you are unaware that there is a difference between the static and dynamic coefficient of friction then. This will easily give rise to the ability to move in one direction using the timing of the thrusts.
I'm aware of the stick-slip aspect of friction. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but that requires that the wheels stay perfectly still against the metal track, as the gyros (in this case), move forward slowly, only to rapidly move backward? I don't see neither of those two things.

Bearings are almost constantly moving, never allowing for the "stick" part, and the gyros move back and forth at roughly the same speed.

Edit: I have hours of footage of the M Drive only moving in one direction, only by pressing one button (like in the two longer clips where I'm barefoot). Isn't it unlikely that I've perfectly timed the button presses each and every time?

Offline LibreEnergia

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Re: M Drive reactionless drive invented by me
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2013, 03:15:51 PM »
I'm aware of the stick-slip aspect of friction. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but that requires that the wheels stay perfectly still against the metal track, as the gyros (in this case), move forward slowly, only to rapidly move backward? I don't see neither of those two things.

Bearings are almost constantly moving, never allowing for the "stick" part, and the gyros move back and forth at roughly the same speed.

Edit: I have hours of footage of the M Drive only moving in one direction, only by pressing one button (like in the two longer clips where I'm barefoot). Isn't it unlikely that I've perfectly timed the button presses each and every time?

Absolute rubbish. The device moves both backward and forwards. This implies it is stationary at some point in the cycle.


Offline tim123

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Re: M Drive reactionless drive invented by me
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2013, 06:10:55 PM »
Hi M Drive :)
  I think your machine is cool! Awesome engineering skills...

However, I'd have to agree with the other guys that you need to put the track on rollers (or something) - so you can see if there is a reaction there...

It's not the smoothest drive I've ever seen... ;)
Are you up for discussing the mechanism in detail, or is it proprietary?

I think the reactionless drive is possible. The 'Dean Drive' passed all the tests, so I read:
http://www.inertialpropulsion.com/dean_drive.htm

Did you make or buy the gyros? I've been considering doing some experiments... I've been wondering if you could use gyros like the 'sails' of a wind-turbine, to 'catch the gravitational wind'. Because they turn any force on them through 90 degrees - perhaps it could be used to harvest gravity... Just a thought...

Regards
Tim

Offline M Drive Inventor

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Re: M Drive reactionless drive invented by me
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2013, 06:18:22 PM »
Absolute rubbish. The device moves both backward and forwards. This implies it is stationary at some point in the cycle.
Stationary perhaps, but not perfectly still for any longer periods of time, which is a requirement for stick-slip.

But this does bring up a good point. I should do a video segment where I show the track and wheels (bearings) more in detail. For instance they've been cleaned with a heavy duty degreaser  in order to remove all lubricants, making them spin with as little friction as possible.


Offline M Drive Inventor

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Re: M Drive reactionless drive invented by me
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2013, 06:35:42 PM »
Are you up for discussing the mechanism in detail, or is it proprietary?

Did you make or buy the gyros?
First of all, thanks! I'm considering putting the "track on a track" so to speak, but if you want some anecdotal evidence, just look at the first clip in the video again. The red wooden panels move relatively easily along my apartment floor towards the end of the video when the machine jerks to the side, but they don't so much as budge when the machine moves forward.

I'm willing to discuss the mechanism in detail if you want. Here's a short description of what's going on.

Basically, when the scaffolding the gyros are attached to starts to rotate, the gyros will want to align themselves with the rotation. In this case it means they "pull" forward. So whenever the gyros are spinning around they will want to pull forward.

When you decrease the rotational speed of the scaffold, springs will try to pull the gyros back to their starting position. It's at this point that the center of gravity of the machine shifts and starts to move forward. It's funny that you mention that 90 degree thing. I have a theory that this isn't a true reactionless drive at all, it's just that the reaction isn't completely opposite, as the gyros would change "the angle of the reaction" by 90 degrees. Although, it's not so much a theory as a random thought I had.

In the videos there's a total of 4 gyros. I had the original ones from the March 2013 clip replaced. All of the gyros were custom made. You can't buy this stuff in stores after all.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: M Drive reactionless drive invented by me
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2013, 06:35:42 PM »

 

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