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Solid States Devices => TPU replications => Topic started by: Neo-X on November 24, 2013, 04:31:20 AM

Title: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Neo-X on November 24, 2013, 04:31:20 AM
Any idea on how to make multiple kicks?
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Magluvin on November 24, 2013, 04:52:32 AM
First we need a clear definition of what a single 'kick' is.  ;)

Mags
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Neo-X on November 24, 2013, 10:38:46 AM
In my opinion Kick is spike or a very short duration pulse of current like when we discharging capacitor in a spark gap. Steven Mark said we can produce multiple kicks by combining multiple frequencies and the only circuit i can think of to produce this effect is this.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: TinselKoala on November 24, 2013, 05:12:03 PM
Is this kicky enough for you?

Horizontal: 0.1 millisecond per division;
Vertical: 200 volts per division (10x attenuated probe);
Kicks: about 2 microseconds wide;
and Steven Mark:  faker.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Farmhand on November 24, 2013, 07:45:10 PM
In this clip we can see I get 17 discharges in succession then two separate ring downs, try to work that one out.  :)
I know what is going on but can anyone see by the waveform what is causing the the pumping first ring down ?

If the second main ring down does not look like it is screwing around I'm not sitting here, it looks like it's a screw/spiral to me.

Ignore the name of the video, it means nothing.

Video clip of Successive discharges
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZLZZtKEzqs

..Steven Marks = Paid Faker.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: FatBird on November 25, 2013, 01:46:13 AM
Farmhand claims Steven Mark was a PAID FAKER.


Since he believes that, WHY is he trying to duplicate SM's TPU KICKS theory?
.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Farmhand on November 25, 2013, 04:01:49 AM
Farmhand claims Steven Mark was a PAID FAKER.


Since he believes that, WHY is he trying to duplicate SM's TPU KICKS theory?
.

I'm not. I don't know what led you to make that assumption, but it's wrong.

Earlier in the thread Kicks were equated to coil discharges and so I showed some in multiple. The setup that created the wave form had nothing whatsoever to do with Steve Marks.

It is a circuit of my own making and imagination to serve my own purpose. I was experimenting with breaking up Chopped DC pulses into multiple pulses per chopped pulse.

I simply ran an oscillator and gated it in a way that I could go from multiple pulses per chop to just the one. 

I used a Toroid with three primaries on it but I used them in parallel and at the same frequency not three different base frequencies or anything like that. There is three frequencies though.

1) There is the frequency of the blocks of chops.

2) There is the frequency of the rapid coil switching on off during the blocks.

3) There is the frequency of the load discharging.

Lets recap, in my setup all three frequencies serve a separate and valid purpose.

There is no three phase or rotating magnetic field, two frequencies are applied to the input control circuit and one is the output discharge based on voltage.

...

If kicks are coil discharges then there is nothing free about them unless the coils are charged for free.
...

Here's another clip with a similar wave form, I'm using the setup to power my dentists drill.  ;D Kidding, I'm just playing, I was doing some, EM wave form art work. You like ?

On this one the big ring down looks like a cone shaped propeller, a bit.  ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPvo2GDY4C8

I think it's a kind of art, as in art to look at not an art as in an art to do.

..

As far as my opinion it is not offensive and a definite possibility. When people are too afraid to say what they think we have a situation of control.

..

Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Magluvin on November 25, 2013, 07:12:53 AM
In my opinion Kick is spike or a very short duration pulse of current like when we discharging capacitor in a spark gap. Steven Mark said we can produce multiple kicks by combining multiple frequencies and the only circuit i can think of to produce this effect is this.

Ive always wondered about that, using 3 signals to develop a sanding wave. But what does that have to do with kicking? ???   Not down playing your post, as the 3 freq deal seems to be some part of it, the tpu story.

I would guess that kicks are possibly from a field collapse discharge. If it is an electrical discharge then probably into a cap, but then what? An electrical collapse discharge into a coil doesnt do much if anything due to impedance of the destination coil, and the sharpness of the pulse.

But if it is a magnetic discharge into a coil, then we are dealing with transformer action, but possibly an odd configuration. Agent Gates had an 'odd' configuration that the secondary was wound on a cardboard tube, then the primary was wound on the tube like it was a toroid. The pri and sec were virtually perpendicular to each other. Tito has also mentioned many times to have coils perpendicular.  Then we've all seen the Hendershot drawings, what looks to be coils perpendicular to each other. Gates and Tito both atributed the TPU as having perpendicular coils, and tito n gates are from different ends of the forum.  But where did they get their foundation of perpendicular coils from? Did SM attribute his device to Hedershot ideas, or did Tesla use perpendicular coils also?

So transformer action of the kicks would be a higher probability, considering, but the bifi possibility could be involved also.

If we discharge the collapse electrically into a bifi coil, the bifi capacitance will take on that charge, where a normal coil wont accept it before it dissipates..

Just thoughts that I have come up with over time on the TPU.

I tried to follow Bruce, but he seems to gone into quiet mode on any result details.


Mags
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Neo-X on November 25, 2013, 09:21:20 AM
Ive always wondered about that, using 3 signals to develop a sanding wave. But what does that have to do with kicking? ???   Not down playing your post, as the 3 freq deal seems to be some part of it, the tpu story.

I would guess that kicks are possibly from a field collapse discharge. If it is an electrical discharge then probably into a cap, but then what? An electrical collapse discharge into a coil doesnt do much if anything due to impedance of the destination coil, and the sharpness of the pulse.

But if it is a magnetic discharge into a coil, then we are dealing with transformer action, but possibly an odd configuration. Agent Gates had an 'odd' configuration that the secondary was wound on a cardboard tube, then the primary was wound on the tube like it was a toroid. The pri and sec were virtually perpendicular to each other. Tito has also mentioned many times to have coils perpendicular.  Then we've all seen the Hendershot drawings, what looks to be coils perpendicular to each other. Gates and Tito both atributed the TPU as having perpendicular coils, and tito n gates are from different ends of the forum.  But where did they get their foundation of perpendicular coils from? Did SM attribute his device to Hedershot ideas, or did Tesla use perpendicular coils also?

So transformer action of the kicks would be a higher probability, considering, but the bifi possibility could be involved also.

If we discharge the collapse electrically into a bifi coil, the bifi capacitance will take on that charge, where a normal coil wont accept it before it dissipates..

Just thoughts that I have come up with over time on the TPU.

I tried to follow Bruce, but he seems to gone into quiet mode on any result details.


Mags


I copy some of steven mark posting that related to the perpendicularity of the coil. The clear only in what he said is the control coil must be perpendicular to the collector coil.



OK let us compare this story of the common radio.
Think of the power unit as a device similar to a radio receiver.
No I do not want to hear feed back informing me that I am trying to convince the world my unit works on radio waves!!!.
But it behaves very much like a simple radio receiver except for the fact that radio waves need to be amplified before they can be of any use to us.
My units behave as though they are variable tuning devices, and we are tuning them to a frequency just like a radio.
The closer you get to the center frequency the more power you permit the collector to dissipate into a load.
the important difference here is that in the case of the radio, you tune into the frequency and amplify it for use.
In the case of my power unit, you create several frequencies within a space of the collector coil's circumference.
The frequencies are directly related to the circumference of the collector coil.
You can begin to collect the current and dissipate it with no need for amplification because the signal source also becomes the feed for the power source and has the natural tendency to run with gain.
It is important that you note that you can never tune too closely to the exact frequencies of power conversion because the power received by the collector will instantly destroy it.
We instead must deliberately tune off the frequencies of conversion in order to make the thing properly work.
Remember that it is like a furnace which feeds itself.
The hotter it gets the more fuel it gives itself to burn.
That is why the control units are so very important.
Without the control unit constantly monitoring the frequencies of operation and making the necessary changes to keep the whole thing off exact conversion frequency, then the unit would very quickly destroy it's self.


Listen, you need to make three coils or so one on topof the other.
But the important thing is to wrap the control coils perpendicularly around the collector coils.
There need to be three of them all the wayaround.
Start them up one at a time each.
Firstfrequency then second harmonic component into thesecond, then the third.
When you eventually strike thecord look out.
you will know what has happened at thatpoint.
In the mean time you can measure a slightoutput even if you do not strike the exact cord.
Larger collectors have a much greater ability tocollect and dissipate more energy then the smallerones. However, if they turn into a bomb it will notmake much difference...
There is no such thing as asmall lightning strike.
Perhaps a smaller one is saferbecause the only thing that will stop a red collectoris the disintegration of the matter acting as areceiver. IE. the wires all burn up.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: totoalas on November 25, 2013, 09:57:27 AM
Hv + pulse + spark    does this satisfy urge ccircuit ?????   neo x
That how i did it
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: forest on November 25, 2013, 05:34:33 PM
Like Tito said, TPU works the same way like others.... frankly I don't see another source.... you must read Tesla related patents 20 times or more and then ask : what should I do to make it working with very low input power, what is missing (removed?) from the patent ? For that you must follow what is going on in patent very very closely and find the weak point...
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: forest on November 25, 2013, 05:36:02 PM
and by the "weak point" I mean something which forbid actual ou. The very problem is like Tesla stated - it is not single invention , it's art of wireless power
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Dave45 on November 26, 2013, 12:47:57 AM

I copy some of steven mark posting that related to the perpendicularity of the coil. The clear only in what he said is the control coil must be perpendicular to the collector coil.



OK let us compare this story of the common radio.
Think of the power unit as a device similar to a radio receiver.
No I do not want to hear feed back informing me that I am trying to convince the world my unit works on radio waves!!!.
But it behaves very much like a simple radio receiver except for the fact that radio waves need to be amplified before they can be of any use to us.
My units behave as though they are variable tuning devices, and we are tuning them to a frequency just like a radio.
The closer you get to the center frequency the more power you permit the collector to dissipate into a load.
the important difference here is that in the case of the radio, you tune into the frequency and amplify it for use.
In the case of my power unit, you create several frequencies within a space of the collector coil's circumference.
The frequencies are directly related to the circumference of the collector coil.
You can begin to collect the current and dissipate it with no need for amplification because the signal source also becomes the feed for the power source and has the natural tendency to run with gain.
It is important that you note that you can never tune too closely to the exact frequencies of power conversion because the power received by the collector will instantly destroy it.
We instead must deliberately tune off the frequencies of conversion in order to make the thing properly work.
Remember that it is like a furnace which feeds itself.
The hotter it gets the more fuel it gives itself to burn.
That is why the control units are so very important.
Without the control unit constantly monitoring the frequencies of operation and making the necessary changes to keep the whole thing off exact conversion frequency, then the unit would very quickly destroy it's self.


Listen, you need to make three coils or so one on topof the other.
But the important thing is to wrap the control coils perpendicularly around the collector coils.
There need to be three of them all the wayaround.
Start them up one at a time each.
Firstfrequency then second harmonic component into thesecond, then the third.
When you eventually strike thecord look out.
you will know what has happened at thatpoint.
In the mean time you can measure a slightoutput even if you do not strike the exact cord.
Larger collectors have a much greater ability tocollect and dissipate more energy then the smallerones. However, if they turn into a bomb it will notmake much difference...
There is no such thing as asmall lightning strike.
Perhaps a smaller one is saferbecause the only thing that will stop a red collectoris the disintegration of the matter acting as areceiver. IE. the wires all burn up.
Sounds great, got a schematic  :)
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on November 26, 2013, 03:15:53 AM


@TK
YOU are the fake and fraud, not SM.  Just because you don't have the aptitude to figure it out.   :P

@ALL
To make a single kick you only need a switch,  even a manual one, a voltage source, no current,  a resistor and scope.  Simplest thing on the planet.   ::)

Cheers,

Bruce

YouTube: Moved on to a relay from a manual switch in this video. I also built a magnetic sensor and that is what you see on my scope.  It does NOT pick up voltage, only current and then changes it to voltage to be picked up by the scope.  Later I moved on a 10 ohm resistor and learned to make many more and MUCH larger kicks. 
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoVgSGbE2Vk&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoVgSGbE2Vk&feature=youtu.be)

AND

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wnEr0O75Sc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wnEr0O75Sc)

 
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: rensseak on November 26, 2013, 10:16:28 AM

Don't forget that there is still a fourth frequency and that is the Schumann-Resonaz in which to tune but not to close.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: forest on November 26, 2013, 10:52:39 AM
Thank You Bruce for that explanation .You has shown what I proposed long time ago but was of course unable to measure due to my small experience and very crude tools.  The point is even without current flow there is something which align electrons spins and create magnetic field for free , that is what also Leedscalnin show with his experiments.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on November 26, 2013, 01:08:17 PM
Bruce:

What does your magnetic pickup consist of and how is it connected to your scope channel?

You can be holding a scope probe in your hand and let it drop six inches onto your bench top and you will sometimes observe a glitch on the scope display when the probe tip makes contact with your bench top.  So you have a long way to go to explain what you are really seeing.

Your biggest mistake is saying, "the spikes must be from current flowing in the wire."  That is almost certainly wrong and there are other possibilities to consider before you say that it's due to current flow in the wire.  Logic is telling you that any appreciable current is not flowing in the wire, so there is a whole series of tests for you to do so you can rule out other explanations before you even consider current flowing in the wire.

If you view the wire as a component in the ambient environment then there is some parasitic capacitance between the wire and the ambient environment.  That implies the wire can be charged to a given potential relative to the ambient environment and hold a minuscule amount of charge.  It's possible in a case like that to make a glitch appear on a scope display when you touch a scope probe to the wire.  You see a glitch due to potential, not current.  A minuscule amount of current flows when the scope probe touches the wire when it is charged to a potential relative to the ambient environment, but that current is so tiny it's likely to be immeasurable with conventional bench equipment.  You are seeing a voltage glitch in this case, not a current glitch.  Are you sure that something akin to this is not what is happening when you see the glitches?

Forget about the Earth's magnetic field as being part of the explanation.  It's the same type of mistake when you assume that the Earth's magnetic field is responsible or related to any spike effect when logic is telling you that's not the case.

In your second clip you are using your finger and touching the wire when you make contact with the scope's calibration output signal.  That pretty much invalidates that experiment because you are touching the setup with your finger and disturbing it.

The truth is you are observing glitches on your scope and you don't have a true explanation for why you are seeing them.  You are simply imposing what you expect and want to see on what you are observing and leapfrogging past the true investigation that you should be doing to figure out what is going on.

MileHigh
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on November 26, 2013, 02:05:02 PM
Bruce:

What does your magnetic pickup consist of and how is it connected to your scope channel?

You can be holding a scope probe in your hand and let it drop six inches onto your bench top and you will sometimes observe a glitch on the scope display when the probe tip makes contact with your bench top.  So you have a long way to go to explain what you are really seeing.

Your biggest mistake is saying, "the spikes must be from current flowing in the wire."  That is almost certainly wrong and there are other possibilities to consider before you say that it's due to current flow in the wire.  Logic is telling you that any appreciable current is not flowing in the wire, so there is a whole series of tests for you to do so you can rule out other explanations before you even consider current flowing in the wire.

If you view the wire as a component in the ambient environment then there is some parasitic capacitance between the wire and the ambient environment.  That implies the wire can be charged to a given potential relative to the ambient environment and hold a minuscule amount of charge.  It's possible in a case like that to make a glitch appear on a scope display when you touch a scope probe to the wire.  You see a glitch due to potential, not current.  A minuscule amount of current flows when the scope probe touches the wire when it is charged to a potential relative to the ambient environment, but that current is so tiny it's likely to be immeasurable with conventional bench equipment.  You are seeing a voltage glitch in this case, not a current glitch.  Are you sure that something akin to this is not what is happening when you see the glitches?

Forget about the Earth's magnetic field as being part of the explanation.  It's the same type of mistake when you assume that the Earth's magnetic field is responsible or related to any spike effect when logic is telling you that's not the case.

In your second clip you are using your finger and touching the wire when you make contact with the scope's calibration output signal.  That pretty much invalidates that experiment because you are touching the setup with your finger and disturbing it.

The truth is you are observing glitches on your scope and you don't have a true explanation for why you are seeing them.  You are simply imposing what you expect and want to see on what you are observing and leapfrogging past the true investigation that you should be doing to figure out what is going on.

MileHigh

MileHigh I am so far advanced from what I posted it is not even funny.  Got away from the magnetic sensor and said I moved on to a 10 ohm resistor and a circuit and a scope. 

You try experimenting for once in your life and do your own testing.  I have my own agenda of experiments I am running and have nothing to prove to anyone ESPECIALLY you!   :o

Oh...one more thing... if you think my magnetic sensor is picking up my fingers on the wire, than you are even dumber than  I already thought!   ::)
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on November 26, 2013, 02:12:19 PM
Thank You Bruce for that explanation .You has shown what I proposed long time ago but was of course unable to measure due to my small experience and very crude tools.  The point is even without current flow there is something which align electrons spins and create magnetic field for free , that is what also Leedscalnin show with his experiments.

Thank you Forest.

I posted that SMALL bit of information for experimenters to work with..(not for those who talk and jabber and never post a single experiment.   PC heroes is all they want to be.  Good for nothing but hot air)

You must figure out how to make more of the kicks and how to combine them.   ;)

Happy hunting!

Cheers,

Bruce
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on November 26, 2013, 02:51:48 PM
Bruce:

You are "advanced" in your own impression of where you think you are but that's not the reality.  Nor am I dumb, and saying, "you are even dumber than I thought" is just theater on your part.  You always thought that I was dumb and now you think I am dumber?  Really?  Have you read some of my postings from time to time?  Does what you say make sense in the context of reading several of my postings?

When you are touching the wire with your finger you are disturbing the circuit from the resistance and capacitance associated with your finger!  Your "circuit" is very high impedance and the touch of your finger could indeed disturb it.

So you are still at square one.  All that you know is there is essentially zero chance that the spike you observe has something to do with current flowing through the wire.  Can you really and truly figure out the explanation for what you are looking at, or do you run away and just believe what you want to believe?   Ultimately the answers to questions like this are up to you.

And I have thousands of hours worth of work done on he bench.

MileHigh
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Neo-X on November 26, 2013, 03:40:28 PM
Hv + pulse + spark    does this satisfy urge ccircuit ??? ??   neo x
That how i did it

I dont know either if that was the right thing to do but keep on experimenting. If you dont get any power in the collector coils try a different approach.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: totoalas on November 26, 2013, 04:12:16 PM
I dont know either if that was the right thing to do but keep on experimenting. If you dont get any power in the collector coils try a different approach.
Its in the core  kick  amplification   got it???  still have no time to replicate my work
 
totoalas
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Neo-X on November 26, 2013, 04:19:07 PM
@Bruce_TPU

I like more your definition of kick. But i dont aggree in one part that kick has only voltage and no current  If theres only voltage and no current, theres no power based on this simple equation Power = Voltage x Current. I think there is atleast small current in the kick to supply power to the load.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: forest on November 26, 2013, 10:00:32 PM
Of course use capacitor to condense kicks and a coil to multiply and then keep all running steady.... not an easy task
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on November 26, 2013, 10:07:09 PM
@Bruce_TPU

I like more your definition of kick. But i dont aggree in one part that kick has only voltage and no current  If theres only voltage and no current, theres no power based on this simple equation Power = Voltage x Current. I think there is atleast small current in the kick to supply power to the load.

Not if you learn to "temporarily disable the effects of the flux" and to allow the electrons to float free from the wire.  And if you then know how to accelerate those electrons close to the speed of light.  Then you have a mini particle accelerator.  And all made from "known" physics. 

Electrons moving at the speed of light, would they have an associated magnetic field?  That is the question you have to ask.  Why do these "slow" electrons moving along a wire with no current have a slight magnetic field associated with them when first switched on then off? 

Marco took High voltage, coming out of a tip of metal and it moves a compass.  You have to ask, "why?" and "how can I use that?"
How can current velocity be increased?  You must also ask that question. 

Steven said that "speed" is everything!  Take a bullet and throw it at a car and it bounces off of the door.  Add velocity to that same bullet and now you have kinetic energy.  And it will pierce through the door.  Steven said that.  It is true.   ;)
 
Cheers,
 
Bruce
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: forest on November 26, 2013, 10:22:13 PM
Right. and remember that current is the rate of flow of charge ! You can multiply current by having more charge OR ......???


That was not mistake Tesla investigated a floating ring around the equator and it had given him a mental breakdown....
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on November 26, 2013, 11:47:50 PM
Right. and remember that current is the rate of flow of charge ! You can multiply current by having more charge OR ...... ???


That was not mistake Tesla investigated a floating ring around the equator and it had given him a mental breakdown....
I did not say "more" I said speed.  Having more of something doesn't equate to it moving faster.  But don't strain your brain on that now.  Just remember it.  Work on the "kicks", and how to make more of them and to "combine" them.   ;)
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: wings on November 27, 2013, 10:02:41 AM
see also this post by kmarinas86:

http://www.overunity.com/8056/cold-current-may-be-caused-by-novel-magnetic-subatomic-interaction/msg201924/#msg201924 (http://www.overunity.com/8056/cold-current-may-be-caused-by-novel-magnetic-subatomic-interaction/msg201924/#msg201924)

http://www.overunity.com/9638/gyroscopic-particles-how-they-work/ (http://www.overunity.com/9638/gyroscopic-particles-how-they-work/)

test this:
http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/Overunity.com%20-%20Forum%20members/otto/attachments-at-OU/coils_010.jpg (http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/Overunity.com%20-%20Forum%20members/otto/attachments-at-OU/coils_010.jpg)


?
http://inamori-frontier.kyushu-u.ac.jp/electronics/common/img/spin_current_en.jpg


Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Farmhand on November 27, 2013, 08:14:59 PM


Marco took High voltage, coming out of a tip of metal and it moves a compass.  You have to ask, "why?" and "how can I use that?"
How can current velocity be increased?  You must also ask that question.
 

Bruce, Just because a compass has some residual magnetism does not mean it is immune to effects from an electric field.

Steven said that "speed" is everything!  Take a bullet and throw it at a car and it bounces off of the door.  Add velocity to that same bullet and now you have kinetic energy.  And it will pierce through the door.  Steven said that.  It is true.   ;)
 
Cheers,
 
Bruce

Add velocity to the bullet huh, and how does that happen ? I'll tell you in case you were unaware.  By imparting energy to the bullet relative to its mass and velocity secured. When you can increase the velocity of a bullet without imparting energy or work to the bullet you have free energy. When I see that I will walk backwards to Bourke.  :)

In theory due to inductance we should be able to charge a wire without any current leaving the far end of the wire, but the wire is still charged by energy from the supply due to displacement current. It happens in exactly the same way as the way a Tesla coil is excited to resonance by a single wire connection to the function generator. This is common practice and is seen every day, no conduction current exits the top end of the bottom end fed Tesla coil, but it's no big deal, easily explained and fits perfectly with conventional knowledge, it is single wire excitation. Energy is input.

Gee wizz. Charge flows in an conductor/inductor due to applied potential, with no applied potential no charge will flow and so no current will result. A hose can be filled with water without any water coming out the end, but something is displaced by the water, and that is air or whatever other gas or material that was existing in the space before the water was forced to take it's place. To get the water in the hose some force must be used.

Nature cannot be cheated.

It seems the basic electrical theory that keeps being shown taught here is simply ignored.

First is the potential, it is then applied, and charge is caused to flow, this is evidenced by electron movement and what we call measured current.

EDIT: Here's an analogy, Imagine a fast boat, the engine represents the potential, the boat represents the charge, The water represents the conductor, when the potential is applied the boat moves which represents the charge flowing, when the charge flows the boat makes a wake/wave in the water which represents the measured current we see, by measuring the size of the wake we can determine the magnitude of the current. Now Imagine thousands of boats (charges) all under the force of one motor (potential) then imagine the wake produced by all the boats being measured to determine the amount and speed of the boats, This is our measured current, or electron jiggle, the electrons move as a result of the charges being forced to flow through the wire. In my opinion. I'm not the only one who thinks like this, and I explained this as my view a long time ago. Way before I heard the footsteps in the desert analogy from EPD. I think my analogy is better.

Cheers

P.S. Addendum. If the boat were to effect a jump and leave the water the wake is no longer created however the charge (boat) is still in motion. This is akin to displacement current. There is no conductor, there is no wake, but charge is still in motion under the effect of potential applied.

..

Problem, how do we measure the displacement current if there is no conduction current and electron jiggle in a conductor to measure it against or equate it to ?

Not sure I haven't thought much on that. Must be a way already in use.

..

2ND P.S. I think one of the more knowledgeable guys should open a thread called, "Electronic theory basics" Or "basics of electricity and emf" or some such thing and really get into the very basics from the beginning so it is here and there is a thread to direct people to. I mean the basics of potential and current onward.

..


Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on November 28, 2013, 02:31:16 AM
 

Bruce, Just because a compass has some residual magnetism does not mean it is immune to effects from an electric field.

Add velocity to the bullet huh, and how does that happen ? I'll tell you in case you were unaware.  By imparting energy to the bullet relative to its mass and velocity secured. When you can increase the velocity of a bullet without imparting energy or work to the bullet you have free energy. When I see that I will walk backwards to Bourke.  :)

In theory due to inductance we should be able to charge a wire without any current leaving the far end of the wire, but the wire is still charged by energy from the supply due to displacement current. It happens in exactly the same way as the way a Tesla coil is excited to resonance by a single wire connection to the function generator. This is common practice and is seen every day, no conduction current exits the top end of the bottom end fed Tesla coil, but it's no big deal, easily explained and fits perfectly with conventional knowledge, it is single wire excitation. Energy is input.

Gee wizz. Charge flows in an conductor/inductor due to applied potential, with no applied potential no charge will flow and so no current will result. A hose can be filled with water without any water coming out the end, but something is displaced by the water, and that is air or whatever other gas or material that was existing in the space before the water was forced to take it's place. To get the water in the hose some force must be used.

Nature cannot be cheated.

It seems the basic electrical theory that keeps being shown taught here is simply ignored.

First is the potential, it is then applied, and charge is caused to flow, this is evidenced by electron movement and what we call measured current.

EDIT: Here's an analogy, Imagine a fast boat, the engine represents the potential, the boat represents the charge, The water represents the conductor, when the potential is applied the boat moves which represents the charge flowing, when the charge flows the boat makes a wake/wave in the water which represents the measured current we see, by measuring the size of the wake we can determine the magnitude of the current. Now Imagine thousands of boats (charges) all under the force of one motor (potential) then imagine the wake produced by all the boats being measured to determine the amount and speed of the boats, This is our measured current, or electron jiggle, the electrons move as a result of the charges being forced to flow through the wire. In my opinion. I'm not the only one who thinks like this, and I explained this as my view a long time ago. Way before I heard the footsteps in the desert analogy from EPD. I think my analogy is better.

Cheers

P.S. Addendum. If the boat were to effect a jump and leave the water the wake is no longer created however the charge (boat) is still in motion. This is akin to displacement current. There is no conductor, there is no wake, but charge is still in motion under the effect of potential applied.

..

Problem, how do we measure the displacement current if there is no conduction current and electron jiggle in a conductor to measure it against or equate it to ?

Not sure I haven't thought much on that. Must be a way already in use.

..

2ND P.S. I think one of the more knowledgeable guys should open a thread called, "Electronic theory basics" Or "basics of electricity and emf" or some such thing and really get into the very basics from the beginning so it is here and there is a thread to direct people to. I mean the basics of potential and current onward.

..

How much "work" does it take for an electron to be accelerated?   You cant possibly answer because you dont know how.

How much "work" does it take to produce kicks?  None because there is no current.

You can join milehigh and tk on former president Nixon's old team..

Nixon was going to shut down the patent office because everything to be discovered had already happened.  No new discoveries on the horizon. That was in the 1970's...hahaha

I have shown, as Steven said, that there is more on a simple wire than there should be...now some of yall need to do something with this information!   It is all that Steven had to go on in the beginning.   Dont listen to the same voces of the old guard.  They are the ones who would have tried to convince Nixon that there is nothing left to discover.

I have seen this new power source and it is amazing!  60 and 80 watts of energy bursts!

Play with the kicks....learn to make more of them....learn to combine them.  It is not hard.  Just learning how to make electrons move!

Cheers,

Bruce
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on November 28, 2013, 04:15:30 AM
The electron volt is a well understood concept:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronvolt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronvolt)

In physics, the electron volt (symbol eV; also written electronvolt[1][2]) is a unit of energy equal to approximately 1.6×10−19 joule (symbol J). By definition, it is the amount of energy gained (or lost) by the charge of a single electron moved across an electric potential difference of one volt. Thus it is 1 volt (1 joule per coulomb, 1 J/C) multiplied by the elementary charge (e, or 1.602176565(35)×10−19 C). Therefore, one electron volt is equal to 1.602176565(35)×10−19 J.[3] Historically, the electron volt was devised as a standard unit of measure through its usefulness in electrostatic particle accelerator sciences because a particle with charge q has an energy E = qV after passing through the potential V; if q is quoted in integer units of the elementary charge and the terminal bias in volts, one gets an energy in eV.

Note the high voltage spikes you get from coils (are those the kicks?) are due to the fact that the instant before the inductor produces the high voltage spike there must be current flowing through the coil.  Without the current flow then you can't get any voltage spikes.

The "old school" vs. "new school" angle is mitigated by the fact that what your circuit does only has one real and true explanation for how it works.  There is no old vs. new in that sense.

Anyway Bruce, unless you show something, we are all just navel gazing.

MileHigh
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on November 28, 2013, 04:36:00 AM
About Farmhand's comment about learning basic concepts and basic electronics.  The "future" is here, you really can go up to your home computer terminal and punch in the codes to find the information that is in the information banks.  You can even get information from the Library of Congress.  It's all up to you.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: SeaMonkey on November 28, 2013, 05:48:47 AM
Invigorating discussion gentlemen!  Well done
so far.  Very much food for thought has been
presented.

Radiant Energy can be produced in a multitude
of ways;  particularly feeble bursts in "circuits"
or wires which seem to have no path for current
flow.

Since Radiant Energy is the product of transient
impulses (yes there is current flow too) there is
a sound explanation for each and every instance
of the mysterious "pulses" or "kicks" which have
been observed.

Those of you who are familiar with transmission line
operation, antenna resonance and Time Domain
Reflectometry already know the answers.

Open Circuits do permit current flow when switches
are thrown!
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Farmhand on November 28, 2013, 05:58:33 AM
The electron volt is a well understood concept:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronvolt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronvolt)

In physics, the electron volt (symbol eV; also written electronvolt[1][2]) is a unit of energy equal to approximately 1.6×10−19 joule (symbol J). By definition, it is the amount of energy gained (or lost) by the charge of a single electron moved across an electric potential difference of one volt. Thus it is 1 volt (1 joule per coulomb, 1 J/C) multiplied by the elementary charge (e, or 1.602176565(35)×10−19 C). Therefore, one electron volt is equal to 1.602176565(35)×10−19 J.[3] Historically, the electron volt was devised as a standard unit of measure through its usefulness in electrostatic particle accelerator sciences because a particle with charge q has an energy E = qV after passing through the potential V; if q is quoted in integer units of the elementary charge and the terminal bias in volts, one gets an energy in eV.

Note the high voltage spikes you get from coils (are those the kicks?) are due to the fact that the instant before the inductor produces the high voltage spike there must be current flowing through the coil.  Without the current flow then you can't get any voltage spikes.

The "old school" vs. "new school" angle is mitigated by the fact that what your circuit does only has one real and true explanation for how it works.  There is no old vs. new in that sense.

Anyway Bruce, unless you show something, we are all just navel gazing.

MileHigh

Referring to the part of your quote I made bold, my point is that for there to be current flowing through the coil in the first place a potential must be applied to it first. First is the applied potential then is the current in the coil then is the spike when the switch is opened to keep the current flowing. One of my points is that to get the charge/current flowing
in the inductor/coil to begin with so that the coil has current flow to produce a spike, a potential must first be applied to the coil.

I can't argue with the technical part and have no desire to as it is more than likely spot on correct. But for us laymen we do not need to know that.

I'm not sure about you but I am tired of linking to and explaining basic electronic theory to the same people over and over. A thread here would be much easier to link to. And much of the confusion surrounding terms could be addressed.

How do we actually measure displacement current directly with a meter?

Cheers
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on November 28, 2013, 06:11:30 AM
There is current flow on the surface of any metal or conductive material.  It's sort of an invisible current flow that you don't normally have to be concerned with.  If you have a hollow conducting sphere and bring an electric charge close to it, the electric field inside the sphere remains zero.  It's because the electrons redistribute themselves over the surface of the metal sphere as they react to the approaching electric charge and its associated electric field.  That means there is current flow.  The same sphere will react to the radio waves from an AM radio station and currents will oscillate back and forth on the sphere.

So that means that essentially any piece of metal you look at will have that property.  Electrons are always in motion on the surfaces of conductors because of the ambient radio frequency environment we live in.  And then as SeaMonkey stated that leads to antennas and stuff like that.  In a way antenna theory is just a repeat of basic electronics concepts but at radio frequencies.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Farmhand on November 28, 2013, 06:18:21 AM
Bruce, if the kicks have energy than it took energy to produce them, saying otherwise is saying you can create work or energy from nothing.

Electrons do not scoot along wires at great speed like the charge does. Electrons hardly move much at all when a current is flowing and powering a load with very fast charge.
In my opinion the electrons only move a bit as they transfer charge to each other.

As I see it in an conductor with AC applied the electrons jiggle back and forth as charge is transferred between them with a net movement in relation to the energy consumed I think.

And I think in a conductor with DC applied they just jiggle a bit and move slowly along the wire in one direction as they pass charge to each other. The electrons certainly do not move as fast as the charge does in a conductor.  As far as I know or have been able to ascertain.

..

Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Farmhand on November 28, 2013, 06:22:44 AM
Yes but how can we measure directly the flow of charge related to displacement current across a gap or dielectric like an air capacitor. If the electrons do not cross the gap then how does the charge get from one plate to the other ?

The finer points are definitely not easy to wrap our head around without the extensive training so we ought to be satisfied that it just does.

Does anyone dispute that the electrons in a conductor do not scoot along the conductor at the same velocity as the charge ?

As I said it is the basics and the principals behind it that matter, and is what is lacking, in my opinion.

Would it be true to say we can have electrons with different levels of charge ?

..
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on November 28, 2013, 06:35:09 AM
Here is some food for thought:

Quote
According to classical mechanics, I calculated that if an electron were to be accelerated through a potential difference of about 257 kV, it would breach the speed of light. Now, according to relativistic mechanics, this is obviously untrue. So, what are the mathematical corrections to be made whilst calculating the speed attained?
 
 What I did was:
 
 qV = (mv^2)/2 [Electrostatic potential energy = Kinetic energy]
 
 How do I correct this using relativistic mechanics?

Quote
The relativistic kinetic energy is (γ - 1) × m₀ × c², where γ is the Lorentz factor.
 
 If you use that in your equation, 257 kV will accelerate an electron to 0.747 c. (And, for reference, a potential of ten times that - 2,570 kV - will accelerate an electron to 0.986 c. A hundred times that - 25,700 kV - to 0.9998 c. And a thousand times that - 257 MV - to 0.999998 c.)

So electrons moving at (close to) the speed of light don't come cheap!
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on November 28, 2013, 06:59:16 AM
Farmhand:

Note you can also have changing magnetic flux though the coil to induce current flow also.

For the displacement current, since you know that the current is the same everywhere in a current loop, the easiest and most logical way to measure it is to measure real current somewhere else in the loop.  It really is as simple as that.

The two plates of a capacitor can act as the "glue" or "pipe" that allows the current to flow.  The metal plates can be charge neutral or hold an excess or lack of electrons.  So the AC current flow translates into charges flowing onto and off of the capacitor plates.  Think of a big rectangular baking pan as the capacitor plate and you pour a big glass of water into the center of the pan.  Voila, there is your current flow.  But there are actually two pans face to face filling and emptying of water, in a manner of speaking.

As to what is really going on, I am going to take a decent guess without looking anything up.  Between the capacitor plates you have a certain amount of electric flux.  The current flow translates into changing electric flux with respect to time.  So the "throbbing electric flux" is part and parcel of what's happening with the AC current flow.  If you could measure the changing electric flux with respect to time you would be measuring the current flow.

Even deeper, the answer is shockingly simple.  In the dielectric material between the capacitor plates, each molecule is like a little stressed egg shape.  There is an electric field present.  That pulls on the negative electron cloud and pushes on the positive nucleus.  That stresses and distorts the shape of the molecule so it looks like an egg instead of a sphere.  So that is a little mechanical spring.  You note that if the egg is stressed it produces its own electric field and that field is opposite to the applied field.  Hence with a high permittivity dielectric you have eggs that can really be stressed.  Also, you can't forget we are always talking AC, so the eggs are being stressed and relaxed over and over.

So, where is the current?  The capacitor is acting like a kind of transformer, and AC current stresses the eggs, throbbing molecules like so many stressed eggs.  The stronger the "spring" associated with a given molecule, the more energy you can store in the capacitor.

MileHigh
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Farmhand on November 28, 2013, 07:03:54 AM
Farmhand:

Note you can also have changing magnetic flux though the coil to induce current flow also.

For the displacement current, since you know that the current is the same everywhere in a current loop, the easiest and most logical way to measure it is to measure real current somewhere else in the loop.  It really is as simple as that.

The two plates of a capacitor can act as the "glue" or "pipe" that allows the current to flow.  The metal plates can be charge neutral or hold and excess or lack of electrons.  So the AC current flow translates into charges flowing onto and off of the capacitor plates.  Think of a big rectangular baking pan as the capacitor plate and you pour a big glass of water into the center of the pan.  Voila, there is your current flow.  But there are actually two pans face to face filling and emptying of water, in a manner of speaking.

As to what is really going on, I am going to take a decent guess without looking anything up.  Between the capacitor plates you have a certain amount of electric flux.  The current flow translates into changing electric flux with respect to time.  So the "throbbing electric" flux is part and parcel of what's happening with the AC current flow.  If you could measure the changing electric flux with respect to time you would be measuring the current flow.

Even deeper, the answer is shockingly simple.  In the dielectric material between the capacitor plates, each molecule is like a little stressed egg shape.  There is an electric field present.  That pulls on the negative electron cloud and pushes on the positive nucleus.  That stresses and distorts the shape of the molecule so it looks like an egg instead of a sphere.  So that is a little mechanical spring.  You note that if the egg is stressed it produces its own electric field and that field is opposite to the applied field.  Hence with a high permittivity dielectric you have eggs that can really be stressed.  Also, you can't forget we are always talking AC, so the eggs are being stressed and relaxed over and over.

So, where is the current?  The capacitor is acting like a kind of transformer, and AC current stresses the eggs, throbbing molecules like so many stressed eggs.  The stronger the "spring" associated with a given molecule, the more energy you can store in the capacitor.

MileHigh

Yes but doesn't a changing magnetic flux constitute a "potential" ?

I think I'm getting the displacement current thing. I'll try to put it into my words after I read a few more times.  :) I'll take my time on reading your last post. Maybe days.  :-[

..
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Farmhand on November 28, 2013, 07:15:10 AM
Here is some food for thought:

Quote
According to classical mechanics, I calculated that if an electron were to be accelerated through a potential difference of about 257 kV, it would breach the speed of light. Now, according to relativistic mechanics, this is obviously untrue. So, what are the mathematical corrections to be made whilst calculating the speed attained?
 
 What I did was:
 
 qV = (mv^2)/2 [Electrostatic potential energy = Kinetic energy]
 
 How do I correct this using relativistic mechanics?

Quote
The relativistic kinetic energy is (γ - 1) × m₀ × c², where γ is the Lorentz factor.
 
 If you use that in your equation, 257 kV will accelerate an electron to 0.747 c. (And, for reference, a potential of ten times that - 2,570 kV - will accelerate an electron to 0.986 c. A hundred times that - 25,700 kV - to 0.9998 c. And a thousand times that - 257 MV - to 0.999998 c.)

So electrons moving at (close to) the speed of light don't come cheap!

I really like it when you guys get technical and explain it as you go a bit but leave some room for some brain work of our own.

Ta
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on November 28, 2013, 07:26:47 AM
Farmhand:

I was just mentioning that you can induce current with changing magnetic flux and yes that creates an electric field.  In fact it creates a circular electric field that the coil sits inside of and is more than happy to "pick up."  It's the same concept from multiple angles.  When you apply a voltage source to the coil, then the electric field associated with that voltage source snakes its way through the coil in circles.  Kind of the same deal one more time.

I think the simple summation of what I said that might make you happy is this:  What we call "displacement current" is the changing electric flux with respect to time through a closed loop.  It's also interesting in that you can think of the displacement in a physical form with respect to the capacitor dielectric, i.e.; the displacement in form that the stressed eggs undergo.

MileHigh
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on November 28, 2013, 09:17:49 AM
Bruce, if the kicks have energy than it took energy to produce them, saying otherwise is saying you can create work or energy from nothing.

Electrons do not scoot along wires at great speed like the charge does. Electrons hardly move much at all when a current is flowing and powering a load with very fast charge.
In my opinion the electrons only move a bit as they transfer charge to each other.

As I see it in an conductor with AC applied the electrons jiggle back and forth as charge is transferred between them with a net movement in relation to the energy consumed I think.

And I think in a conductor with DC applied they just jiggle a bit and move slowly along the wire in one direction as they pass charge to each other. The electrons certainly do not move as fast as the charge does in a conductor.  As far as I know or have been able to ascertain.

..

NOT created by nothing!!!   :o

Stevens whole point was to show that the Earths magnetic field DOES  have an influence on electrons! ::)

Power is neither created nor destroyed but tranformed.  Sheesh...really??
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on November 28, 2013, 09:22:06 AM
Farmhand:

Note you can also have changing magnetic flux though the coil to induce current flow also.

For the displacement current, since you know that the current is the same everywhere in a current loop, the easiest and most logical way to measure it is to measure real current somewhere else in the loop.  It really is as simple as that.

The two plates of a capacitor can act as the "glue" or "pipe" that allows the current to flow.  The metal plates can be charge neutral or hold an excess or lack of electrons.  So the AC current flow translates into charges flowing onto and off of the capacitor plates.  Think of a big rectangular baking pan as the capacitor plate and you pour a big glass of water into the center of the pan.  Voila, there is your current flow.  But there are actually two pans face to face filling and emptying of water, in a manner of speaking.

As to what is really going on, I am going to take a decent guess without looking anything up.  Between the capacitor plates you have a certain amount of electric flux.  The current flow translates into changing electric flux with respect to time.  So the "throbbing electric flux" is part and parcel of what's happening with the AC current flow.  If you could measure the changing electric flux with respect to time you would be measuring the current flow.

Even deeper, the answer is shockingly simple.  In the dielectric material between the capacitor plates, each molecule is like a little stressed egg shape.  There is an electric field present.  That pulls on the negative electron cloud and pushes on the positive nucleus.  That stresses and distorts the shape of the molecule so it looks like an egg instead of a sphere.  So that is a little mechanical spring.  You note that if the egg is stressed it produces its own electric field and that field is opposite to the applied field.  Hence with a high permittivity dielectric you have eggs that can really be stressed.  Also, you can't forget we are always talking AC, so the eggs are being stressed and relaxed over and over.

So, where is the current?  The capacitor is acting like a kind of transformer, and AC current stresses the eggs, throbbing molecules like so many stressed eggs.  The stronger the "spring" associated with a given molecule, the more energy you can store in the capacitor.

MileHigh

The kicks are NOT displacement current!!!

NO Dialectric show in video.  Raw metal ! :o

WRONG-  ding ding ding....try again!
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on November 28, 2013, 09:26:05 AM
Here is some food for thought:

So electrons moving at (close to) the speed of light don't come cheap!

Ha!  If you think high voltage is the only way to accelerate electrons think again!   :o

Wrong- ding ding ding...try again!   ::)

Try not being a pc hero and do some real experimenting!   :o
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: verpies on November 28, 2013, 09:43:46 AM
Even deeper, the answer is shockingly simple.  In the dielectric material between the capacitor plates, each molecule is like a little stressed egg shape.  There is an electric field present.  That pulls on the negative electron cloud and pushes on the positive nucleus.  That stresses and distorts the shape of the molecule so it looks like an egg instead of a sphere.  So that is a little mechanical spring.  You note that if the egg is stressed it produces its own electric field and that field is opposite to the applied field.  Hence with a high permittivity dielectric you have eggs that can really be stressed.  Also, you can't forget we are always talking AC, so the eggs are being stressed and relaxed over and over.
It is not "shockingly simple" in the manner you describe.  Rather, it is simplistic.
I was taught the same in school but I started having doubts that this simplistic explanation is correct after reading this (http://milesmathis.com/dielec.pdf).
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: verpies on November 28, 2013, 09:56:06 AM
Would it be true to say we can have electrons with different levels of charge ?
Did you ever consider why free charged electrons inside a wire don't all repel themselves to the surface of that wire.
Did you ever consider, that free charged electrons might not be responsible for the transport of electric energy inside a solid wire?

On the other hand, electric current outside of solid conductors (e.g. free space) is definitely the result of the movement of charge carriers, such as electrons, positrons, muons, protons and ions in general and is known collectively as particle beams, ion streams or plasma currents.  The motionless form of this is known as "static electricity".

Maybe you will find this (http://milesmathis.com/disp.pdf) paper about the displacement current illuminating.
When reading this paper you have to keep in mind, that the phrase "charge field" has a special unconventional meaning, which is defined in his other papers.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: wings on November 28, 2013, 01:44:59 PM
Did you ever consider why free charged electrons inside a wire don't all repel themselves to the surface of that wire.
Did you ever consider, that free charged electrons might not be responsible for the transport of electric energy inside a solid wire?

On the other hand, electric current outside of solid conductors (e.g. free space) is definitely the result of the movement of charge carriers, such as electrons, positrons, muons, protons and ions in general and is known collectively as particle beams, ion streams or plasma currents.  The motionless form of this is known as "static electricity".

Maybe you will find this (http://milesmathis.com/disp.pdf) paper about the displacement current illuminating.
When reading this paper you have to keep in mind, that the phrase "charge field" has a special unconventional meaning, which is defined in his other papers.

http://amasci.com/miscon/speed.html (http://amasci.com/miscon/speed.html)
The speed of electric current

Since nothing visibly moves when the charge-sea flows, we cannot measure the speed of its flow by eye. Instead we do it by making some assumptions and doing a calculation. Let's say we have an electric current in normal lamp cord connected to bright light bulb. The electric current works out to be a flow of approximatly 3 inches per hour. Very slow!
Here's how I worked out that value. I know:

Bulb power: about 100 watts, about 100V at 1A
Value for electric current: I = 1 ampere
Wire diameter: D = 2/10 cm, radius R=.1cm
Mobile electrons per cc (for copper, if 1 per atom): Q = 8.5*10^+22
Charge per electron: e = 1.6*10^-19
The equation:


cm/sec =   ________I_______  = .0023 cm/sec  =  8.4 cm/hour
           Q * e * R^2 * pi

Charge or spin current or ?
http://inamori-frontier.kyushu-u.ac.jp/electronics/common/img/spin_current_en.jpg

Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: verpies on November 28, 2013, 03:01:26 PM
Since nothing visibly moves when the charge-sea flows, we cannot measure the speed of its flow by eye. Instead we do it by making some assumptions and doing a calculation.
And that calculation is correct if we assume that the motion of electrons constitutes the electric current in the wire.
However, mathematical correctness is not indicative of conceptual correctness. 
In this case, math does not verify the assumption - rather it relies on the assumption.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: forest on November 28, 2013, 03:47:20 PM
Good , I see progress in correct direction. I think nature is symmetrical. Think why only one kind of current should exists ?
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: totoalas on November 28, 2013, 03:51:47 PM
another technique from Eric Dollard   FLUX  CAPACITOR    -   using oridnary relay and magnet orientation to close the gap......
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: verpies on November 28, 2013, 04:08:50 PM
Good , I see progress in correct direction. I think nature is symmetrical.
Good, then you should have no problem accepting that space and time are also symmetrical ...like a numerator and denominator on both sides of a fraction.  This means that time is reciprocal to space (and vice versa) and has all the properties of space (including dimensionality).

Think why only one kind of current should exists ?
Apparently a current inside a wire is different than a current of an electron beam in a CRT or a moving ball that is charged by static electricity or moving charges on a spinning charged disk, see Magnus effect (http://www.blazelabs.com/e-exp10.asp).

So we already have two kinds...
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: forest on November 28, 2013, 04:45:25 PM
Good, then you should have no problem accepting that space and time are also symmetrical ...like a numerator and denominator on both sides of a fraction.  This means that time is reciprocal to space (and vice versa) and has all the properties of space (including dimensionality).
Apparently a current inside a wire is different than a current of an electron beam in a CRT or a moving ball that is charged by static electricity or moving charges on a spinning charged disk, see Magnus effect (http://www.blazelabs.com/e-exp10.asp).

So we already have two kinds...


No, I mean : the current currently is the flow of electric field and the rotational magnetic field around the conductor. The opposite should be possible, right ? I believe so and I'm sure that it's cold or spin current and it is magnetic.
 I bet some scientific groups are very deep into this research but be sure it's classified....

Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: verpies on November 28, 2013, 05:39:12 PM
No, I mean : the current currently is the flow of electric field and the rotational magnetic field around the conductor. The opposite should be possible, right ?
When Lorentz forces of a rotating magnetic field on a charged particle are considered, then the result is that such rotating magnetic field "blows" these charged particles linearly in space like a fan.  This is even used in clean room dust fans, that ionize dust particles and then blow them with a rotating magnetic field.  All without any moving parts, as shown on the attached photo.

But all of that is irrelevant to the issue whether charged electrons are responsible for the electric current inside solid conductors.
Using a words like "flow of electric field" slips in undefined and unanalyzed concepts into the discussion.

A "field" is an abstract concept.  Namely it is a field of forces in a region of space.  It completely ignores the mechanism that causes those forces (e.g. those gyro particles of Newman or B-photons of Mathis).  Those forces are just assumed to exist and their magnitude and direction is assumed to vary according to some function in this space, often called a "vector space" or "space of force vectors".  As such, the mere notion of a "flow" of a "field of force vectors" is nonsense or abstract notion at best.  It is non-physical and non-mechanistic.

A field of sand can "flow", also other things that cause forces can "flow", but forces themselves cannot "flow".
A group of forces or a field of forces cannot "flow" either.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: wings on November 28, 2013, 06:01:44 PM
When Lorentz forces of a rotating magnetic field on a charged particle are considered, then the result is that such rotating magnetic field "blows" these charged particles linearly in space like a fan.  This is even used in clean rooms dust fans, that ionize dust particles and then blow them with a rotating magnetic field.  All without any moving parts, as shown on the attached photo.

But all of that is irrelevant to the issue whether charged electrons are responsible for the electric current inside solid conductors.
Using a words like "flow of electric field" slips in undefined and unanalyzed concepts into the discussion.

A "field" is an abstract concept.  Namely it is a field of forces in a region of space.  It completely ignores the mechanism that causes those forces (e.g. those gyro particles of Newman or B-photons of Mathis).  Those forces are just assumed to exist and their magnitude and direction is assumed to vary according to some function in this space, often called a "vector space" or "space of force vectors".  As such, the mere notion of a "flow" of a "field of force vectors" is nonsense or abstract notion at best.  It is non-physical and non-mechanistic.

Things that cause forces can "flow", but forces themselves cannot "flow". A group of forces or a field of forces cannot "flow" either.

interesting Floyd Sweet's VTA Unit without magnet?
http://peswiki.com/images/e/ef/Floyd-Sweet_coil_sq_95x95.jpg (http://peswiki.com/images/e/ef/Floyd-Sweet_coil_sq_95x95.jpg)
what your feeling


http://peswiki.com/index.php/Image:Floyd-Sweet_coil_sq_95x95.jpg

Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: verpies on November 28, 2013, 06:12:18 PM
interesting Floyd Sweet's VTA Unit without magnet?
http://peswiki.com/images/e/ef/Floyd-Sweet_coil_sq_95x95.jpg (http://peswiki.com/images/e/ef/Floyd-Sweet_coil_sq_95x95.jpg)
This coil arrangement is commonly used to create a rotating magnetic field.
Such field has many uses, especially in AC motors.

There are also other arrangements that have the same effect on charged particles.
For example see this animation (http://www.overunity.com/7679/selfrunning-free-energy-devices-up-to-5-kw-from-tariel-kapanadze/dlattach/attach/87339/) or the attached diagram and photo.

...but all of this is irrelevant to the discussion whether electric current inside a solid conductor is caused by moving charged electrons!
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Dave45 on November 28, 2013, 06:48:04 PM


Bruce have you tried pulsing into a blocking diode.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: forest on November 28, 2013, 07:13:27 PM
flow of electric field = wave  ;)  Why nobody think about simplistic explanation ? Only electro-magnetic wave  in various configurations is responsible for electricity....you can have it EM in pure space or polarised with electric longitudinal and magnetic rotational as per electric current flow (electron spin-flip being the secondary effect) or magneto-dielectric or many combinations...
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: verpies on November 28, 2013, 07:38:50 PM
flow of electric field = wave  ;)  Why nobody think about simplistic explanation ?
Because it is not clear:
-  is it the wave of sth or wave in sth ...and in what or of what ?
- what is the wavelength of DC ?
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Dave45 on November 28, 2013, 08:10:07 PM
the electric field, the torsion field, A vector field
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: forest on November 28, 2013, 08:29:18 PM
Because it is not clear:
-  is it the wave of sth or wave in sth ...and in what or of what ?
- what is the wavelength of DC ?


Wave in ether. DC is a lot of very high frequencies combined. Actually it is very like the DC power supply made with voltage stabilizer with a ripple , but the ripple is not visible being extremally high frequency, every ion interaction produce those EW wave. Look, I don't pretend to know it in details , those are my thought and a barebone of theory, I don't state it is perfect, but it has a merit, I'm sure.
Ha, now you would probably like to know what is ether ?
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: verpies on November 28, 2013, 08:44:59 PM
Ha, now you would probably like to know what is ether ?
...and what are its physical properties? e.g. density, mass, compressibility, stiffness, etc...
At the same time, why doesn't it slow down planets or moons? Does it move together with the Earth or Mars or Venus or Sun or Galaxy?
Why its relative speed is not felt as planets move in respect to each other or their planetary surfaces move with rotation?
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: wings on November 28, 2013, 08:57:20 PM
to Verpies related to Floyd Sweet VTA and other parametric excitations & magnetic experiments

... too much (difficult) for me but interesting

https://www.weizmann.ac.il/lvov/
http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/Tariel-Kapanadze/Wessley-WNY-Group/wings/Magnetization%20Oscillations%20and%20Waves.pdf
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: forest on November 28, 2013, 09:10:53 PM
...and what are its physical properties? e.g. density, mass, compressibility, stiffness, etc...
At the same time, why doesn't it slow down planets or moons? Does it move together with the Earth or Mars or Venus or Sun or Galaxy?
Why its relative speed is not felt as planets move in respect to each other or their planetary surfaces move with rotation?


Good questions about the properties because they actually limit speed of light, the rest is misconception... Ether is not material it is a base for matter. Prana and Akasha are two kinds of existence : wave and emptiness , wave is the "force" and emptiness is "matter". The so called matter is jsut a place when there is no wave, the source of outcoming and incoming wave baing in perfect symmetry or standing wave. The any other state is the cause of movement and interaction with all matter.... So the ether is NOT static , NOT material it is better understood as a space-time with granuality, because it is formed by actuall interaction of each and every single "point" in universe. Each matter continously emit EM wave and absob EM waves from all other in universe and that "ambient background" is ETHER.
The spin, the movement, the mass and all properties of particle is made because of delay, phase shift and other interaction of waves...but it is immaterial for us today - we are no sufficiently knowledgeable to use that ...
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: verpies on November 28, 2013, 09:34:49 PM
Good questions about the properties because they actually limit speed of light, ...
So the ether is NOT static , NOT material it is better understood as a space-time with granularity, because it is formed by actual interaction of each and every single "point" in universe.
If you'd written that Aether is the speed of light formed by one "grain" of space per one "grain" of time, then we might have a common thread of understanding. 
Note that, this is very different from a claim, that space/time is a container filled with another entity called "Aether" and that Aether is a separate entity from space/time.  This issue of separateness is paramount here!

As far as light being an undulation propagating through this Aether like a wave in a pond - I vehemently disagree with that proposition.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: forest on November 28, 2013, 10:12:24 PM
But it is ! I pointed at that Ether as I understood it is a "structure" composed of actual interactions of all waves forming space-time. If you take a small area of ether and find and measure longitudinal wave propagating as a distortion of that Ether  - it is light (or EM wave). The enterprise for future scientist is to uncover why the light running "in circle" forming two opposing whirls become magnetic field. Many many questions not answered still but I'm quite sure ALL that is really already explained but classified.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: verpies on November 28, 2013, 10:18:48 PM
Note that, this is very different from a claim, that space/time is a container filled with another entity called "Aether" and that Aether is a separate entity from space/time.  This issue of separateness is paramount here!

As far as light being an undulation propagating through this Aether like a wave in a pond - I vehemently disagree with that proposition.
But it is !
If your "Aether" is a separate entity from space/time, then light is not a wave in it.  If you think so, then you're falling for an old mental crutch.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Farmhand on November 28, 2013, 10:18:50 PM
http://amasci.com/miscon/speed.html (http://amasci.com/miscon/speed.html)
The speed of electric current

Since nothing visibly moves when the charge-sea flows, we cannot measure the speed of its flow by eye. Instead we do it by making some assumptions and doing a calculation. Let's say we have an electric current in normal lamp cord connected to bright light bulb. The electric current works out to be a flow of approximatly 3 inches per hour. Very slow!
Here's how I worked out that value. I know:

Bulb power: about 100 watts, about 100V at 1A
Value for electric current: I = 1 ampere
Wire diameter: D = 2/10 cm, radius R=.1cm
Mobile electrons per cc (for copper, if 1 per atom): Q = 8.5*10^+22
Charge per electron: e = 1.6*10^-19
The equation:


cm/sec =   ________I_______  = .0023 cm/sec  =  8.4 cm/hour
           Q * e * R^2 * pi

Charge or spin current or ?
http://inamori-frontier.kyushu-u.ac.jp/electronics/common/img/spin_current_en.jpg

Hi Wings, I think what you are calculating there is the physical movement of the electrons themselves. If the charge moved that slowly then with AC electricity reversing polarity 50 to 60 times a second the load at the end of a 30 foot long electric cable would get no charge due to the charge not being able to get to the end of the wire.

The electrons in my view are simply put "like a human chain" they pass charge along the line. If with AC, the charge movement is unequal then the net movement of electrons a small amount in one direction should occur. If with the AC no load is drawn and so no charges are used then there should be theoretically no net movement of electrons.

In a wire with DC If a load is drawn then there should be a net movement of electrons as a result of the passing of charge.

We were taught a long time ago even in boilermaker basic electrical theory that electrons only "jiggle" in a wire and move only a small amount over a long period. THis tells me that the "charge" that powers the load is not electrons as such but the charge that they pass along the wire.

People can get all technical and confuse everyone but the engineers if they want but what does that achieve ?

In simple terms if electrons do not move along the wire as fast as the wave of energy or the energy than the electrons themselves are only carriers of charge.

If an electron is accelerated outside a wire then imparts energy when decelerated then it is just a kinetic energy thing isn't it. A mass in motion. Energy is added to accelerate it and energy is dissipated to decelerate it.

I think it is more constructive to look at the movement of charge on a wire. And define the basic principal through which the load is powered by energy from the supply in a very short amount of time while the electrons hardly move at all, in other words the electrons themselves are not electric current in a wire. Rather the movement of the charge which powers the load is the electric current in a wire. In my opinion. The electrons are responding to an applied force by transferring charge along the wire from one electron to another. The electron movement is only a small part of the electric current in a wire. In my opinion. All results from the application of a potential to create an emf. There are different types of potential, a potential disaster is one type. Potential energy can be in many forms. It can be an elevated tank of water, it can be charge on the plates of a capacitor, the potential energy in the chemicals of a battery ect. ect. A potential can create an emf which can cause charges to flow and transfer energy along a wire using electrons to "pass the bucket" so to speak. All just my opinion.

Now where did I put all those numbers, were they necessary to understanding the basic principal ? Probably not.

Cheers
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: verpies on November 28, 2013, 11:26:47 PM
@Farmhand

I like the way you think, since you are making a distinction between movement of charge and movement of electrons (or ions).
However in your musings have one commonality. Namely the assumption that charged free electrons are needed to transmit charge through a solid wire...like buckets in a human bucket brigade are needed to transport water.

I'd like you to consider another possibility:
Namely, that charge is an independent entity that can exist without charge carriers such as electrons, positrons, protons, muons, ions, etc... and as such charge is capable of moving through electrically conductive solid matter, just like displacement current is capable of moving through a vacuum capacitor without involving any electrons or other charge carriers.

Can your mind be open to such proposition?

@All
Does anyone ever follow the links that I embed in my posts?
It seems "not" or they are not read carefully with an understanding, because many of these issues are explained there.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Farmhand on November 29, 2013, 12:32:27 AM
Hi Verpies, It'll take me some time to try to decipher most of your links. I think I'll need a break from posting to allow me to focus in "thought trains".

Quote
I'd like you to consider another possibility:
Namely, that charge is an independent entity that can exist without charge carriers such as electrons, positrons, protons, muons, ions, etc... and as such charge is capable of moving through electrically conductive solid matter, just like displacement current is capable of moving through a vacuum capacitor without involving any electrons or other charge carriers.

Yes I can certainly be open to such a proposition as you suggest. Which is why I keep mentioning displacement current. It simply would mean that the electrons are just "shoved", "pulled", "repelled", " attracted" or otherwise moved as a result of the charge flow or something as simple as that. I am open to anything that makes sense and is logical. Especially if it can help me in practical ways.

I do have some deep thinking to do.

Thanks

Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: verpies on November 29, 2013, 12:58:01 AM
It simply would mean that the electrons are just "shoved", "pulled", "repelled", " attracted" or otherwise moved as a result of the charge flow or something as simple as that.
I was drawn to the same conclusion despite holding a Ph.D in conventional physics.

Outside of solid conductors, particles are definitely "shoved", "pushed" and bombarded by charge. 
The difference is that non-charged particles (e.g. neutrons) are "shoved" equally in all directions (equal forces in all directions sum to zero), while charged particles are "shoved" asymmetrically because they channel the charge asymmetrically through themselves. 

For example, according to the links to Miles' papers that I posted, the spatial distribution of proton's charge channeling profile, is like a disk. 
In other words, charge goes in through the axis and exits around the equator. 
The quantity of charge is preserved while making this trip, but its directional distribution is affected severely and the charge "shoving" forces stop being equal in all directions.

I am open to anything that makes sense and is logical. Especially if it can help me in practical ways.
I think that mechanical interactions are also needed besides logic to make sense of nature.
Fortunately charge can be explained mechanically just like colliding spinning baseball balls, that move and spin at the speed of light.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on November 29, 2013, 01:23:23 AM
Farmhand actually got it right in one of his recent postings.  Electrons themselves are just a "medium" for lack of a better term.  It's the electric field that exists in the ambient environment of the conductor that directly influences and affects what the electrons do.  When you turn on a switch, every single electron in the circuit is all of a sudden being pushed around by the same manifestation of the electric field.

There is no bumping into each other or passing a bucket or anything like that.   It's like all of a sudden all of the electrons have invisible stretched elastic bands pulling them in a certain direction.  They all feel it and they all move at the same time.

You can measure the current and you know one amp is a coulomb of charge per second.  You also know how many electrons there are in a coulomb.  So you can determine how many electrons per second pass a point.  The actual physical drift velocity of the electrons in a wire I am sure can be calculated.  However, you have to ask yourself is this information useful?  When you play with electronics the voltage and the current reign supreme.  You have to assume that the physical drift velocity of the electrons in a very thin wire is faster than the velocity for a thick wire.  Okay, but then what?  What can I do with that information?

On the micro time scale, when the switch closes, the electric field moves down the wire at close to the speed of light.  So that means you can ignore that very small time factor when you work on the bench.  Not if you are a digital design engineer, though.  The speed a signal travels at in a circuit board trace is now critical.  If you have a good scope you should be able to see the propagation delay in a signal that travels one inch and the same signal travelling 10 inches.

Anyway, going back to the electrons and giving you a simplistic analogy, I think of the electric field like a "wind" and the electrons are like "floating leaves in the wind."  It's Autumn.  The strength of the "wind" is like the strength of the electric field.

I know that many people don't believe that moving electrons are responsible for what we call "electric current" in a conductor like a wire.  The problem is that there is so much experimental evidence to support that and there isn't any that I am aware of for the alternative theories.

Somebody mentioned the symmetry of Nature.  Probably the best analogy for electric circuits is the water in a pipe analogy.  With enough insight that should make sense to most of you.  Can you think of the "water circuit" equivalents for the standard components that you see in electronics?

MileHigh
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: verpies on November 29, 2013, 02:39:00 AM
Farmhand actually got it right in one of his recent postings.
How do you know?

Electrons themselves are just a "medium" for lack of a better term.
Medium for what? Why is any medium needed at all, for the movement of charge?
Why doesn't displacement current require the "electron medium" to transmit charge?

It's the electric field that exists in the ambient environment of the conductor that directly influences and affects what the electrons do. 
Does "ambient" mean inside the conductor or outside the conductor to you?
What is that "electric field" you are writing about in this context?
Is it a mathematical field of vectors (vectors denoting what?: force, speed, etc..) or something real that can interact mechanically (e.g. like wind particles) ?

When you turn on a switch, every single electron in the circuit is all of a sudden being pushed around by the same manifestation of the electric field.
Again, you're slipping into the discussion the undefined and unanalyzed concept of "electric field". 
Let's assume for now that you mean a group of some "charge particles" (not "charged particles"!), that are smaller than electrons and that those particles cause forces giving rise to a "field of electric forces".  If this assumption is correct then it begs the following questions:
How do you know that free charged electrons move inside solid conductor due to a push by a charge wind?
Is it because electrons are pushed by charge outside of conductors?
If "yes", do you consider the inside of the conductor to be the same as the outside of the conductor for the electrons ?

There is no bumping into each other or passing a bucket or anything like that.   It's like all of a sudden all of the electrons have invisible stretched elastic bands pulling them in a certain direction.  They all feel it and they all move at the same time.
That's non mechanical. Sounds like magic and is exactly the type of thinking that a logical person should be avoiding.

You can measure the current and you know one amp is a coulomb of charge per second.  You also know how many electrons there are in a coulomb.  So you can determine how many electrons per second pass a point. 
Only if you assume that free charged electrons are necessary for carrying the charge through the wire.

On the micro time scale, when the switch closes, the electric field moves down the wire at close to the speed of light. 
...but what is this electric field?  A field of what? 
In legacy science an "electric field" is a "field of force vectors". It is an abstract concept, that does not even specify the cause of those forces. You are not suggesting invisible rubber bands again, are you?

So that means you can ignore that very small time factor when you work on the bench.  Not if you are a digital design engineer, though.  The speed a signal travels at in a circuit board trace is now critical.  If you have a good scope you should be able to see the propagation delay in a signal that travels one inch and the same signal traveling 10 inches.
I know, I run into this problem all the time when synchronizing clocks to my FPGAs.  However this is an enginnering problem, that detracts us from the discussion how charge travels inside a solid wire.

Anyway, going back to the electrons and giving you a simplistic analogy, I think of the electric field like a "wind" and the electrons are like "floating leaves in the wind."
I see no evidence against electrons being blown by a charge wind like leaves (outside conductors), but why do you insist, that this wind needs leaves at all in order to exist and move ?
Can't the wind (consisting of air molecules in motion) exist without leaves?  Can't charge exist without electrons ?

The strength of the "wind" is like the strength of the electric field.
Do you mean that:
1) this "wind" is the "electric field" ?
2) this "wind" causes the "forces of the electric field" ?

In any case what is this wind composed of. or at least, what are the properties of its constituents?

I know that many people don't believe that moving electrons are responsible for what we call "electric current" in a conductor like a wire.  The problem is that there is so much experimental evidence to support that and there isn't any that I am aware of for the alternative theories.
Really!? Can you quote some experimental evidence that proves that free charged electrons are necessary for the transmission of charge through a wire (moving charge is electric current). 
Also, how do you explain the electron-less displacement current in a vacuum capacitor ?
BTW: I do not dispute that moving electrons in free space constitute current, but that's different than current inside conductors.

As, for the alternative theories, can you explain why don't all the free charged electrons in a conductor repel themselves onto the surface of a conductor after a while. 
That's for starters.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Qwert on November 29, 2013, 10:07:33 AM
Farmhand, Verpies, Milehigh, I think these links can be quite appropriate in your recent discussion:
http://amasci.com/miscon/speed.html
http://amasci.com/ele-edu.html

According to those pages, Verpies is the closest one to the truth.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on November 30, 2013, 03:01:40 AM
Verpies:

I still think the meaning of "current" in "displacement current" is misunderstood.  There is no current, nothing flowing, in displacement current.  They don't literally mean current when they say displacement current.  They use "current" as a pseudonym for what is really happening to make it easer to talk about it.  So no need for electrons.  It's replaced by the changing field generated by the electrons.

Ambient means inside the conductor.  I am always talking about the same electric field, the one you can measure with your multimeter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXxkIjJY1DY

Quote
How do you know that free charged electrons move inside solid conductor due to a push by a charge wind?

This is where people need to think of water pressure in a pipe and its ability to make the water move.  You know an electric field will apply a force to a charge and make it move.  Because of this property of charge interacting with an electric field and the property of the wire being a conductor, you can get current flow.

The inside of a conductor and the free space around the conductor are definitely different so I am not sure what you are alluding to there.

Quote
That's non mechanical. Sounds like magic and is exactly the type of thinking that a logical person should be avoiding.

It only sounds like magic if you discount or for some reason don't want to believe in what experimentation shows on the bench.  As mentioned above, charges are affected by electric fields.

The "leaves" are the outer valence electrons in the metallic matrix.

Quote
Can you quote some experimental evidence that proves that free charged electrons are necessary for the transmission of charge through a wire (moving charge is electric current).

Discharge a capacitor through a resistor and observe the exponential decay.

Quote
As, for the alternative theories, can you explain why don't all the free charged electrons in a conductor repel themselves onto the surface of a conductor after a while.

I am not sure if you are talking about a charged body or not.  Certainly for a charged body the excess electrons are on the surface.

MileHigh
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Farmhand on November 30, 2013, 04:11:06 AM
I think there is part truth in a lot of we each are saying, I also think some of us are saying the same thing in different ways.

Happy to see a cool headed discussion.   :) :) :)

As far as Displacement "current" goes, maybe there is no flow of charge across the gap or dielectric or vacuum. Maybe it is as Milehigh kind of says, maybe the opposing charge accumulates on the plates of the capacitor kind of like "charging by induction" a depletion or increase of one sides charge causes an opposite charge to rush to the other plate, but if there is a flow of charge there is electric current of some kind, I think it's safe to say that. However that does not in my view automatically mean it must be electrons passing the charge. Although it would seem so.

Here Tesla describes the action of the local condenser on the bars of his patented Stout copper bars device.

Patent
http://www.google.com/patents/US462418

Quote, the part in bold is what he says happens at the condenser when it is "charged". Interesting choice of words. He knew when to say things like "presumably" and " it would seem as though".  ;)

Quote
To understand the action of the local condenser E in Fig. 2, let a single discharge be first considered. This discharge has two paths offered-one to the condenser E, the other through the part L of the working circuit C. The part L, however, by virtue of its self-ind notion, offers a strong opposition to such a sudden discharge, while the condenser, on the other hand, offers no such opposition. The result is that practically no current passes at first through the branch I, but presumably opposite electricities rush to the condenser-coatings, this storing for the moment electrical energy in the condenser. Time -is gained by this means, and the condenser then discharges through the branch L, this process being repeated for each discharge occurring at D. The amount of electrical energy stored in the condenser at each; charge is dependent upon the capacity of the com denser and the potential of its plates. it is evident, therefore, that the quicker the discharges succeed each other the smaller for a given output need be the capacity of the .condenser and the greater is also the efficiency of the condenser. This is confirmed by practical results.

..
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Tito L. Oracion on November 30, 2013, 04:39:55 AM
Hi everyone  ;)


its not really how to make multiple kicks the important is,
but how to convert  small kick into big kick with very thick flux.  :)


magnets is really helpful if you want a very thick flux,
 cause all you just need to do is lengthen the flux of the magnet that is constant.  8) 


multiple kicks can be achieve easily by speed ok.  ;)   8)


lets say in a discharging a cap in a coil:
how can you make kicks in a micro-microsecond.  8)  got what i mean? ;) 8)



otits.  ;D
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: totoalas on November 30, 2013, 04:47:38 AM
Hi everyone  ;)


its not really how to make multiple kicks the important is,
but how to convert  small kick into big kick with very thick flux.  :)


magnets is really helpful if you want a very thick flux,
 cause all you just need to do is lengthen the flux of the magnet that is constant.  8) 


multiple kicks can be achieve easily by speed ok.  ;)   8)


lets say in a discharging a cap in a coil:
how can you make kicks in a micro-microsecond.  8)  got what i mean? ;) 8)

REDUCE THE GAP TO ONE THOUSANDTH OF AN INCH>>>>>?

otits.  ;D
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on December 01, 2013, 09:00:22 AM
Farmhand:

Quote
Maybe it is as Milehigh kind of says, maybe the opposing charge accumulates on the plates of the capacitor

I am surprised that you would state that because of all of the people around here I would have thought that you would have undertaken to learn these basic concepts about capacitors.

What is capacitance?  For starters you can say something like for a given amount of charge stored in the capacitor you get a certain amount of voltage across the capacitor.  So it would stand to reason for a larger capacitor you get a lower voltage across the capacitor for the same amount of stored charge.  Indeed that's true.

The formula for capacitance is C = Q/V.   Capacitance equals charge per unit of voltage.   If my capacitor is large then I know that it will store more charge for a given amount of voltage across it as compared to a smaller capacitor.

So the concept of a capacitor storing charge is one of the most fundamental concepts about how a capacitor works.

Not to pick on you Farmhand because I know that you do much more to inform yourself than the average experimenter, but it's almost shocking that you yourself and others have to be "convinced" that current flows into a capacitor and it ends up as charge on the capacitor plates.

By the same token, when you talk about capacitors and how they behave in a circuit, you have i = C dv/dt and v = 1/C integral i dt.

It's unfortunate that some people make grandiose statements and allude to "bigger things" and "new understandings" and yet they don't even understand how a capacitor works or how an inductor works.  What about personal integrity and and not making proclamations about stuff that you don't understand?  It's shocking sometimes.  It makes some postings nothing more than pure flights of fancy with nothing to back them up at all.

Anyway, that was a mini rant.  I have given up a long time ago to seriously try to educate people on the forums about electronics.  The world is literally at your fingertips these days so if you really want to you can invest the time and energy to learn the subject matter yourself so you can talk about it with authority.

MileHigh
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Reiyuki on December 01, 2013, 09:07:11 AM
  Bruce:   Thanks for that excellent pointer; it really shows a simple, repeatable phenomena to experiment upon.

  Others:  I tried the simple one-wire kick experiment, and it does work.  A few interesting tidbits not yet mentioned:

 - One-wire 'kicks' only show up when attached to Positive (+) lead of a square-wave function generator.  Attaching to (-) has no measurable effect.  Quite interesting..
 - The kicks are clearly 'current-like' based on various orientations of the pickup coil.
 - Wire mass seems as important as inductance or # of turns.  I got better results with a single turn of thick wire than with 10 turns of thin wire.
 - The free-floating wire of your long-wire test returns more power when grounded or attached to rudimentary antenna.


-Rei
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Dave45 on December 01, 2013, 12:34:18 PM
  Bruce:   Thanks for that excellent pointer; it really shows a simple, repeatable phenomena to experiment upon.

  Others:  I tried the simple one-wire kick experiment, and it does work.  A few interesting tidbits not yet mentioned:

 - One-wire 'kicks' only show up when attached to Positive (+) lead of a square-wave function generator.  Attaching to (-) has no measurable effect.  Quite interesting..
 - The kicks are clearly 'current-like' based on various orientations of the pickup coil.
 - Wire mass seems as important as inductance or # of turns.  I got better results with a single turn of thick wire than with 10 turns of thin wire.
 - The free-floating wire of your long-wire test returns more power when grounded or attached to rudimentary antenna.


-Rei
Thanks for sharing
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: wings on December 01, 2013, 07:47:04 PM
  Bruce:   Thanks for that excellent pointer; it really shows a simple, repeatable phenomena to experiment upon.

  Others:  I tried the simple one-wire kick experiment, and it does work.  A few interesting tidbits not yet mentioned:

 - One-wire 'kicks' only show up when attached to Positive (+) lead of a square-wave function generator.  Attaching to (-) has no measurable effect.  Quite interesting..
 - The kicks are clearly 'current-like' based on various orientations of the pickup coil.
 - Wire mass seems as important as inductance or # of turns.  I got better results with a single turn of thick wire than with 10 turns of thin wire.
 - The free-floating wire of your long-wire test returns more power when grounded or attached to rudimentary antenna.


-Rei

thanks
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 02, 2013, 01:38:08 AM
  Bruce:   Thanks for that excellent pointer; it really shows a simple, repeatable phenomena to experiment upon.

  Others:  I tried the simple one-wire kick experiment, and it does work.  A few interesting tidbits not yet mentioned:

 - One-wire 'kicks' only show up when attached to Positive (+) lead of a square-wave function generator.  Attaching to (-) has no measurable effect.  Quite interesting..
 - The kicks are clearly 'current-like' based on various orientations of the pickup coil.
 - Wire mass seems as important as inductance or # of turns.  I got better results with a single turn of thick wire than with 10 turns of thin wire.
 - The free-floating wire of your long-wire test returns more power when grounded or attached to rudimentary antenna.


-Rei

Hello Rei and Gentleman,

Someone did an actual experiment!  Heart be still...lol  And here I thought the "talking heads" had taken over the thread.

Now, Rei, I can tell you a few things to assist you.  First, think about WHAT the kick is and WHAT you are seeing.  You mentioned that there is "current" associated with it, but let me "over simplify" the whole thing for you.

Steven spoke of "disabling the effects of the flux so that the electrons can float free from the wire".  Now, let me say this very simply...  With NO current there is NO magnetic flux to hold the electrons to the wire.  Remember Steven said that Tao "had the secret" because he spoke of "stopping the current".  That is right, stop the current and fast switching and you have electrons free from the wire (surface).

Now, what you saw associated with these "freed from the wire" electrons is an associated magnetic field.  That is correct!  An electron moving with NO current, free from the wire has an associated magnetic field.  Steven also said this when he spoke of a nuclear blast and the associated emp or huge magnetic field.  What causes it?  It is NOT coming from current on a wire.  It is coming from the rapid acceleration of electrons.

So, what we have seen on our pick up coils or magnetic sensors is simply the magnetic field associated with speeding electrons as particles.  Now to make power you/we must do several things....
a.  We must make "stronger magnets" ie..strong kicks
b.  We must increase the velocity of the magnet ie..learn HOW to accelerate the magnets velocity.
It is NOT AC or DC or this or that, it is electrons.  Now, you will learn from experimenting that some setups work better than others.  I have been there..done that. 

Because of your experimenting, here are two more video to enjoy.  I have about thirty.  ;-)

Make kicks, make bigger kicks, learn to "combine" the kicks into really big "kicks" (magnetic field strength). 

YouTube:
(P.S. do NOT get hung up on "conclusions" you hear on a video.  They OFTEN change with further experimentation.)
https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=XDabTMKfz3I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Snf_VMyRr8k
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on December 02, 2013, 04:13:19 AM
Bruce:

It's more like reality needs to get its own fair share of time on this thread.  Take for example, the case of Daniel Nunez.  He put up some clips of pulsing coils on YouTube and claimed over unity.  Many commenters told him that he was wrong and that he was not making his measurements correctly.  He got an article or two on PESN, and the same comments were repeated.  A few months later there is Daniel Nunez at the Breakthrough Energy Conference still pitching his silly coils and claiming over unity.  So Daniel Nunez was intentionally ignoring all of the advice telling him that he had nothing and his measurements made no sense.  He just continued repeating the same thing over again at the conference.

He charges $600 for his "bird's nest" coils.  They are nothing more than magnet wire made into a fancy form.  The "bird's nest" form is totally meaningless, and utterly useless.  You are better off making an ordinary coil.  Daniel Nunez makes coils, but in fact he doesn't have the slightest clue about how a coil works.

So where does that leave Daniel Nunez, Bruce?  He is charging outrageous money and making nonsensical claims for his coils.  In watching several of his clips it is so painfully obvious that he knows next to nothing about electronics and nothing about making proper measurements.  His is just an ordinary Joe Blow that knows next to nothing.  He is just trying to cash in on going "green."  In my book, in my opinion, that makes him a criminal.  He should be exposed and put out of business.  If he persists he should be prosecuted for criminal fraud and sent to jail.

Your first YouTube clip link is a bad link.   The second clip you linked to works.  One more time, your talk about tapping into the electromagnetic field of the Earth.  That's pure nonsensical fantasy on your part.  The only field from the Earth that you experience is a DC magnetic field.  When you first start learning about magnetic fields you learn that they must be changing with respect to time to have any affects on other circuits.  This fact will not go away just because you don't want to believe it.  You can carry on on autopilot if you want to for the next several months and several more YouTube clips and simply ignore this reality but eventually it will come around because you simply can't escape it.

When you lay your hand on the mircowave oven transformer coil you are transferring the 60 Hz voltage hum that your body picks up into the coil.  It's your body acting as an antenna for the 60 Hz mains power hum that ultimately causes the spikes on your scope display.  You can even see what looks like a sine wave envelope on the amplitudes of the spikes, which could be confirmed with more testing including changing the time base of the scope.  I can't tell you the exact methodology for seeing the spikes on the scope display because your clips are very poorly documented, but I am pretty certain based on what I see in your clip that that's what's going on.

If you want to educate and give people a real chance to comment on what you are doing then you have to document yourself properly.  That means that you have to make a schematic of your setup that is clear and readable.  You allegedly have a "magnetic field sensor" that consists of a loop of wire and a black plastic project box.  You have to tell us what your magnetic field sensor is if you want to be credible.

If I had access to your bench and started to investigate what you were doing, it probably would not take me too long to figure out exactly what is going on and it will certainly not be what you think is going on.  You simply don't have the electronics knowledge to understand what is going on based on my reading dozens of your postings and looking at many of your clips.  It's up to you to educate yourself if you want to take this stuff seriously and if you want to be taken seriously.  I am "raising the bar" for you because you are trying to claim a leadership and teaching position.

If you want to properly document your experiment in the second clip and make a schematic and show the various signals, and show what you have in the black box, between myself and others around here we could probably collectively figure out what is really going on in your clip remotely.

MileHigh
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on December 02, 2013, 04:47:06 AM
Bruce:

In the simplified drawing that you posted in reply #13 in this thread, you say the following:

<<< It is common scientific knowledge that if you have a piece of wire and first run electricity through it you will have a small kick when first energized.  The kick is universally attributed to the Earth's magnetic field.  >>>

There is no common scientific knowledge about what you are suggesting.
Your first statement is totally ambiguous and undefined.
The "kick" is not defined and nothing in the context of what you are doing is "universally attributed to the Earth's magnetic field."

Just in that short statement you are revealing a lot about yourself.  Your are indicating that you are a beginner to the world of electronics and have only taken a few tiny steps.  So if you are serious about this stuff you need to educate yourself and document what you are doing properly.

Any attempts that you might make to suggest that I am "in the past" and you are "advanced and into new uncharted research" are negated by the quote of you above for anyone that has a reasonable understanding of electronics without having to be an expert in electronics.  The interesting thing about electronics is that it's incredibly difficult to fake or feign that you have knowledge and experience when you don't.  Usually within five minutes or five sentences the truth is revealed to people that are knowledgeable.

Sorry for the reality coming crashing down but the readers of this thread deserve to hear the real deal.

So, to try to end this posting on a positive note, if you like this stuff and have fun with it, then by educating yourself you should have that much more fun with it and you can continue to climb up the learning curve and do more meaningful experiments.

MileHigh
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Magluvin on December 02, 2013, 04:50:29 AM
Hey Bruce

In this vid  The SM Kicks    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wnEr0O75Sc

Your scope is connected to the transformer/magnetic pickup?     Ground and probe?

Then you have your short piece of wire near or inserted into the transformer/probe?

Its hard to tell what is going on for sure there. ;D

Mags
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Magluvin on December 02, 2013, 04:56:24 AM
Could it be that in the vid I replied to, that the voltage 'source' from the scope is being picked up 'capacitively' between the probe and wire, being that they are all in one unit, the scope?

It doesnt look consistent on the scope as per the taps.

Mags
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Magluvin on December 02, 2013, 05:21:33 AM
Lets say I have a trifilar coil on a transformer core. 

If I put 2 of those strands in series with 2 leads out, and connect those to my scope, then just have a 12v batt at the other end of the table and get an alligator clip lead from the + of the batt and just tap it to one end of the 3rd strand, I will get output from my bifi to the scope?

Mags
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Magluvin on December 02, 2013, 06:49:32 AM
I have a little scope that has a sig gen.

The series bifi windings ring near 10khz.  Applying 1 lead of the sig gen to the 3rd strand, other end of strand open.

1v square wave from sig gen produces 10v p-p on the series bifi.  Nice ac output considering square 50% dut in. Adjusting the duty cycle lowers the output, but still a sine out. No spikes. ???

Next try will be using a sig gen from a separate source(scope/gen no. 2  same model) to eliminate direct capacitive effect between the scope and sig gen. There will still be a say ambient/atmospheric capacitance between equipment, so we may have some output. 

Mags
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 02, 2013, 06:54:35 AM
Bruce:

It's more like reality needs to get its own fair share of time on this thread.  Take for example, the case of Daniel Nunez.  He put up some clips of pulsing coils on YouTube and claimed over unity.  Many commenters told him that he was wrong and that he was not making his measurements correctly.  He got an article or two on PESN, and the same comments were repeated.  A few months later there is Daniel Nunez at the Breakthrough Energy Conference still pitching his silly coils and claiming over unity.  So Daniel Nunez was intentionally ignoring all of the advice telling him that he had nothing and his measurements made no sense.  He just continued repeating the same thing over again at the conference.

He charges $600 for his "bird's nest" coils.  They are nothing more than magnet wire made into a fancy form.  The "bird's nest" form is totally meaningless, and utterly useless.  You are better off making an ordinary coil.  Daniel Nunez makes coils, but in fact he doesn't have the slightest clue about how a coil works.

So where does that leave Daniel Nunez, Bruce?  He is charging outrageous money and making nonsensical claims for his coils.  In watching several of his clips it is so painfully obvious that he knows next to nothing about electronics and nothing about making proper measurements.  His is just an ordinary Joe Blow that knows next to nothing.  He is just trying to cash in on going "green."  In my book, in my opinion, that makes him a criminal.  He should be exposed and put out of business.  If he persists he should be prosecuted for criminal fraud and sent to jail.

Your first YouTube clip link is a bad link.   The second clip you linked to works.  One more time, your talk about tapping into the electromagnetic field of the Earth.  That's pure nonsensical fantasy on your part.  The only field from the Earth that you experience is a DC magnetic field.  When you first start learning about magnetic fields you learn that they must be changing with respect to time to have any affects on other circuits.  This fact will not go away just because you don't want to believe it.  You can carry on on autopilot if you want to for the next several months and several more YouTube clips and simply ignore this reality but eventually it will come around because you simply can't escape it.

When you lay your hand on the mircowave oven transformer coil you are transferring the 60 Hz voltage hum that your body picks up into the coil.  It's your body acting as an antenna for the 60 Hz mains power hum that ultimately causes the spikes on your scope display.  You can even see what looks like a sine wave envelope on the amplitudes of the spikes, which could be confirmed with more testing including changing the time base of the scope.  I can't tell you the exact methodology for seeing the spikes on the scope display because your clips are very poorly documented, but I am pretty certain based on what I see in your clip that that's what's going on.

If you want to educate and give people a real chance to comment on what you are doing then you have to document yourself properly.  That means that you have to make a schematic of your setup that is clear and readable.  You allegedly have a "magnetic field sensor" that consists of a loop of wire and a black plastic project box.  You have to tell us what your magnetic field sensor is if you want to be credible.

If I had access to your bench and started to investigate what you were doing, it probably would not take me too long to figure out exactly what is going on and it will certainly not be what you think is going on.  You simply don't have the electronics knowledge to understand what is going on based on my reading dozens of your postings and looking at many of your clips.  It's up to you to educate yourself if you want to take this stuff seriously and if you want to be taken seriously.  I am "raising the bar" for you because you are trying to claim a leadership and teaching position.

If you want to properly document your experiment in the second clip and make a schematic and show the various signals, and show what you have in the black box, between myself and others around here we could probably collectively figure out what is really going on in your clip remotely.

MileHigh

You NEVER listen, is why you are uselessbfor anything but being a talking head!

One last response to you...

The MAGNETIC SENSOR ONLY PICKED UP MAGNETIC FIELDS.  THESE ARE MONTHS OLD VIDEOS.  I LATER MOVED ON TO USING A RESISTOR AND NO MORE MAGNETIC SENSOR.  I KNOW MY HAND WAS ACTING AS An ANTENNA.  I said in my post of the videos to IGNORE THE CONCLUSIONS HEARD IN THE VIDEO.

I am showing magnetic kicks from an antenna souce THAT IS THE POINT.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Magluvin on December 02, 2013, 06:57:30 AM
Ok, using a separate sig gen at 10khz, square 4v biased +.   .012v ac output from series bifi.  had to jack up the second sig gen to get that much output. :-\

If I just touch the open end of the 3rd strand it goes up to .045v out.   Im an antenna. ;D

So these tests cant be done using 1 piece of equipment as a scope and source, due to capacitive coupling between the 'wire' and pickup, as far as I can tell so far. ;)

Mags
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 02, 2013, 06:58:20 AM
Bruce:

In the simplified drawing that you posted in reply #13 in this thread, you say the following:

<<< It is common scientific knowledge that if you have a piece of wire and first run electricity through it you will have a small kick when first energized.  The kick is universally attributed to the Earth's magnetic field.  >>>

There is no common scientific knowledge about what you are suggesting.
Your first statement is totally ambiguous and undefined.
The "kick" is not defined and nothing in the context of what you are doing is "universally attributed to the Earth's magnetic field."

Just in that short statement you are revealing a lot about yourself.  Your are indicating that you are a beginner to the world of electronics and have only taken a few tiny steps.  So if you are serious about this stuff you need to educate yourself and document what you are doing properly.

Any attempts that you might make to suggest that I am "in the past" and you are "advanced and into new uncharted research" are negated by the quote of you above for anyone that has a reasonable understanding of electronics without having to be an expert in electronics.  The interesting thing about electronics is that it's incredibly difficult to fake or feign that you have knowledge and experience when you don't.  Usually within five minutes or five sentences the truth is revealed to people that are knowledgeable.

Sorry for the reality coming crashing down but the readers of this thread deserve to hear the real deal.

So, to try to end this posting on a positive note, if you like this stuff and have fun with it, then by educating yourself you should have that much more fun with it and you can continue to climb up the learning curve and do more meaningful experiments.

MileHigh

AGAIN YOU DO NOT LISTEN...EVER.  THAT QUOTE WAS FROM STEVEN MARK AND IT DID INDEED USED TO BE COMMON KNOWLEDGE.   GO ARGUE WITH THE MAGNETIC KICKS, YOU FULL OF HOT AIR, NEVER BUILT A THING ON THIS FORUM NOR EXPERIMENTED TALKING HEAD.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 02, 2013, 07:02:12 AM
I have a little scope that has a sig gen.

The series bifi windings ring near 10khz.  Applying 1 lead of the sig gen to the 3rd strand, other end of strand open.

1v square wave from sig gen produces 10v p-p on the series bifi.  Nice ac output considering square 50% dut in. Adjusting the duty cycle lowers the output, but still a sine out. No spikes. ???

Next try will be using a sig gen from a separate source(scope/gen no. 2  same model) to eliminate direct capacitive effect between the scope and sig gen. There will still be a say ambient/atmospheric capacitance between equipment, so we may have some output. 

Mags

You have no switch. ..wont work.

Use a resistor if you cant make a proper magnetic pickup coil.

AC WITH NOISE works best.   ;)

The higher the voltage the faster the electrons.  (Simple way to accelerate them for your testing)

No current,  have fun, be safe.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Reiyuki on December 02, 2013, 07:07:10 AM
  Just a couple tips for tinkerers and a couple questions for B.  This is in regard to Bruce's attached file on single-wire kick generation.


(Tips for others)
 - Kicks start showing up around 10khz at 2v and builds off/on past 1mhz.  In general, the higher frequency the stronger the results.  My function generator does 20v P/P to about 2mhz.
 - Square waves only.  Sine waves generate no output whatsoever.  AC/DC bias does not seem to matter for simple test.
 - Positive (+) lead wire only.  Yes, seriously.  Leave the other lead open.  Capacitive coupling seems to do the rest.
 - Receiver coil: Any small coil seems to work well.  I used a ~200 turn 1"dia aircore solenoid.  Higher inductance = lower frequency = easier scope pickup.  A relay coil, solenoid, or aircore inductor may work.
 - Kick output reaches several volts with an antenna/ground.  Can light LED's with the above receiver coil in parallel.  Again, this is driven 1-wire open-circuit and is quite a sight to see.


(Questions for Bruce)
 - Would a Bifilar series coil have any useful effects when used as an emitter or collector?  (Just trying to save time on winding variants)
 - Assuming the 'freed electron' theory was right, I figured you could direct/accelerate them with a bias magnetic field like a CRT electron gun, or particle accelerator.  So far, all I can seem to get is an extra volt of hash on top of the bias mag fields.  Perhaps the B field just isn't strong enough?(24V3A)
  Should the bias field(s) be pulsed/rotating/resonant as well?
 - It's interesting the role caps play interacting w/ kicks.  Series arrangements seem generally more useful than parallel; parallel seems to kill the dipole.  Thoughts?


Happy testing all.

/Rei
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 02, 2013, 07:19:29 AM
ALL here should know that this kick has now been confirmed by three labs.  Marco gets credit for figuring out the initial kick.

Giantkiller has reproduced it many times.

Jason has verified it with his lab months ago.

Roberto has verified it with his lab months ago and wrote a beautiful paper on it.

A friend of mine from Europe, the CEO of an electronic company confirmed it with his lab using a Manuel switch and a resistor!   Hahaha

I have on my team over 22 people.   Including university professors in math, electronic professionals and MANY more.

I just jumped into this thread to at least point you in the right direction....lol

I dont give a rats Texas terd what milehigh and others of his mindset think.

Only do not allow them to dissuade you from experimenting on your own! :o

We are all months down the road from what you see!

Will you believe Steven Mark and ourselves enough to experiment or will you be dissuaded by the talking heads?

Doesn't matter to us, for you all know where we are headed...hehehe
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Magluvin on December 02, 2013, 07:22:10 AM
 
(Questions for Bruce)
 - Would a Bifilar series coil have any useful effects when used as an emitter or collector?  (Just trying to save time on winding variants)
 

I only used a bifi because I had it wound already with a 3rd strand.  I aimed for the resonant freq of my bifi, thus the clean sine wave out with square in.  So bifi might be smoothing off the spikes or absorbing them, if they were occurring in my tests. I will try some more tomorrow with just 1 strand of the bifi for output and see if there are spikes. The Ill move on to using a 'switch' for on and off as Bruce just posted.

Mags
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 02, 2013, 07:34:12 AM
  Just a couple tips for tinkerers and a couple questions for B.  This is in regard to Bruce's attached file on single-wire kick generation.


(Tips for others)
 - Kicks start showing up around 10khz at 2v and builds off/on past 1mhz.  In general, the higher frequency the stronger the results.  My function generator does 20v P/P to about 2mhz.
 - Square waves only.  Sine waves generate no output whatsoever.  AC/DC bias does not seem to matter for simple test.
 - Positive (+) lead wire only.  Yes, seriously.  Leave the other lead open.  Capacitive coupling seems to do the rest.
 - Receiver coil: Any small coil seems to work well.  I used a ~200 turn 1"dia aircore solenoid.  Higher inductance = lower frequency = easier scope pickup.  A relay coil, solenoid, or aircore inductor may work.
 - Kick output reaches several volts with an antenna/ground.  Can light LED's with the above receiver coil in parallel.  Again, this is driven 1-wire open-circuit and is quite a sight to see.

My guess is that you also are NOT using a switch.  Start with a "switch", slow down and you can use freqs in the Hz, sine wave or any other kind of wave that RIDES ON THE SURFACE of the wire.

(Questions for Bruce)
 - Would a Bifilar series coil have any useful effects when used as an emitter or collector?  (Just trying to save time on winding variants)

You are jumping way too far ahead!  Slow down, understand WHY you are seeing what you are seeing at higher frequencies.  It is not hard, and I have already said.

 - Assuming the 'freed electron' theory was right, I figured you could direct/accelerate them with a bias magnetic field like a CRT electron gun, or particle accelerator.  So far, all I can seem to get is an extra volt of hash on top of the bias mag fields.  Perhaps the B field just isn't strong enough?(24V3A)
  Should the bias field(s) be pulsed/rotating/resonant as well?
 - It's interesting the role caps play interacting w/ kicks.  Series arrangements seem generally more useful than parallel; parallel seems to kill the dipole.  Thoughts?

OF COURSE the "freed electron" theory is correct.  It is Steven's theory and he spent decades working on this...lol

Why are you concerned with a "bias" field?  SLOW down, and concentrate ONLY on the following to start, or you will not get very far....
1.  Learn to make kicks
2.  Learn to make "bigger" kicks (DEFINED by stronger magnetic field!)
3.  Learn to make "more" kicks
4.  Learn to "combine" them for REALLY BIG kicks.  (Defined as REALLY BIG combined MAGNETIC kicks)

5.  It is not hard...
I am NOT going to tell you where I am....Only where I have been and show you the road ahead.  The rest is up to you and others.  I am VERY busy with my own experimenting every day.   ;)



Happy testing all.

/Rei

Hi Rei,

My answers above in bold.  Good job experimenting.   ;)
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Magluvin on December 02, 2013, 07:39:12 AM
You have no switch. ..wont work.



Well, I just went by what is said in the schematic, as it said square wave in just below the switch. ;)

Mags
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 02, 2013, 07:45:29 AM
Well, I just went by what is said in the schematic, as it said square wave in just below the switch. ;)

Mags

INITIALLY, yes square wave but WITH a switch...  You choose...

Manual....
Reed....
Relay...

JUST to start and learn what you are doing.  Once you put a on/off switch in place, then you can try ALL KINDS of things and work on what I posted to REI.

But honestly,  what I have seen on this forum, is most people get "bored" with something and move on to the next project.  (except me and a very FEW others...lol)

Cheers,

Bruce
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on December 02, 2013, 07:52:16 AM
Bruce:

So you are putting up a link to a clip and then saying to ignore the conclusions in the clip.  You have a running monologue going in the clip so how are we supposed to know what to listen to and what to ignore?  That's an issue for you to contemplate that's related to the issue of you not documenting yourself properly.

You can call me a "talking head" but in fact you know that I have made many postings that do a pretty decent analysis of somebody's circuit or video clip.  I have already told you this but I will repeat that I have thousands of hours worth of experience on an electronics bench.

There is a chance that the "kicks" are just capacitively or inductively coupled voltage spikes due to glitches or switching events.  Those are perfectly normal occurrences that happen all the time and usually nobody pays attention to them.  If that's true then it would be a good exercise to try to figure that out.

I have a suggestion for you.  Perhaps you can make a new "kick" clip where you show a schematic and document yourself properly.  You have to stand by what you say and not say that your conclusions may change.  You are using a resistor?  You notice that you provide no details about that.   That's a huge problem with you that needs fixing if you want to get your message out.  Exactly how are you using a resistor, what is the setup?

One thing for sure is that you are not getting any energy from the Earth's magnetic field.  Nor are you getting or observing any kind of passive energy amplification.  If you have an isolated piece of wire and you bring it up to a high potential, then when you touch a scope probe to it you see what looks like a capacitor of a few picofarads discharging to the ground potential of the scope.  That would look exactly like a spike so what is really going on in your experiments is still far from determined at this point.  The fun challenge is to figure out what is going on.

So I hope that you can make a new, well documented clip complete with a a schematic, with conclusions that you will stick by.  Then we can collectively try to figure out what is going on.  The reality is that there is a very good chance that your original conclusions will change as we work to figure out what is going on.

MileHigh
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: forest on December 02, 2013, 10:39:12 AM
Bruce_TPU


I see only one weak point - manual switch. If you can show the same using mosfet or transistor like Otto did then thing may be easier to digest for those who don't believe.




P.S. a fish cannot feel the water pressure except when something is wrong with her swim bladder. Sure, fish generate a lot of bubbles but there is niuance only.The fish were told that is due to measurement error and getting more experience will fix that issue.Except when the fish meet with pistol shrimp.... :o
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: forest on December 02, 2013, 10:42:00 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKPrGxB1Kzc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKPrGxB1Kzc) can it be possible without water pressure ????
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 02, 2013, 03:36:30 PM
Bruce_TPU


I see only one weak point - manual switch. If you can show the same using mosfet or transistor like Otto did then thing may be easier to digest for those who don't believe.




P.S. a fish cannot feel the water pressure except when something is wrong with her swim bladder. Sure, fish generate a lot of bubbles but there is niuance only.The fish were told that is due to measurement error and getting more experience will fix that issue.Except when the fish meet with pistol shrimp.... :o

Hi forest,

No weak point...you see, I dont care if "some" dont believe.   ;)  they never experiment anyway.

And I said to START with switching.   I am showing "proof of concept".  This is all Steven had when he started.

I am showing where I was months ago.  You all have to do your own experimenting.... sorry but just the way it is going to be.    :o
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on December 02, 2013, 05:52:17 PM
Forest:

Quote
then thing may be easier to digest for those who don't believe.

I assume that English is not your first language but using "believe" in the context of this discussion is a bad choice of words.  The sentence sounds like you are expected to believe something without any proof being given.  I have to have good proof and good experimental procedures and good documentation before I will consider believing anything that is out of the ordinary.

Bruce:

Whether or not I experiment has absolutely nothing to do with your proposition.  But I do know my stuff pretty well and so far you haven't presented anything that would suggest that your claims are true.  It's hard to even tell what you are doing.  I have given you some suggestions for improving your overall presentation and I hope you take them to heart and produce a much better clip next go round that includes a schematic and you also show all of the signals of interest with your scope.

To talk in riddles and drop hints and clues with no true verifiable substance is not confidence inspiring.  That could be taken from the script of any of a myriad of free energy scammers.  I don't believe that you are a scammer so why would you want to emulate them?  Please just be straight and say what you have to say and back it up with a well made YouTube clip.

MileHigh
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Reiyuki on December 02, 2013, 07:57:56 PM
Whether or not I experiment has absolutely nothing to do with your proposition.

Seriously MileHigh, it would have taken less time to do the experiment than than it took to write the previous wall-o-text.  Prioritize.



Anyway, for all concerned attached is the simplest Proof-of-Concept setup I could muster.  The alligator clip is just resting on top of the coil and not connected to anything.  I bet you would even get results manually switching with a multimeter and battery (Positive terminal only).
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Farmhand on December 02, 2013, 08:45:24 PM
Reiyuki, Do you mind explaining exactly what you say you are showing proof of concept of ? What I see is that the coil is connected to the scope, the scope ground is connected to
the ground, the function generator ground is connected to the ground also, the positive of the function generator is connected capacitively to the coil, so basically the coil is being driven by the function generator positive lead by a small capacitor and the ground common to both the function generator and the scope allow the return.

Seems to be an effect completely explained by conventional knowledge and logic. Anybody can do that.

Cheers
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 02, 2013, 09:20:39 PM
Seriously MileHigh, it would have taken less time to do the experiment than than it took to write the previous wall-o-text.  Prioritize.



Anyway, for all concerned attached is the simplest Proof-of-Concept setup I could muster.  The alligator clip is just resting on top of the coil and not connected to anything.  I bet you would even get results manually switching with a multimeter and battery (Positive terminal only).

 :)

LOL  A good one Rei!  And so true!  Talking heads, Otto called them "PC Heroes"...lol

I have my scope to where it can be "battery powered" for serious testing when using a resistor.  But you are correct.  It is there no matter what.  Just electrons with an associated magnetic field.

Ha!  Maybe the talking heads think that the magnetic field of a nuclear explosion is caused by "displacement current"?  Hahaha.

Nope, no dielectric needed.  Just electrons freed from the wire.  Just a proof of concept.  You have got a LONG way to go from here to a TPU.  But at least you all are in the right direction.

Cheers,

Bruce
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Reiyuki on December 02, 2013, 09:35:53 PM
Reiyuki, Do you mind explaining exactly what you say you are showing proof of concept of ? What I see is that the coil is connected to the scope, the scope ground is connected to
the ground, the function generator ground is connected to the ground also, the positive of the function generator is connected capacitively to the coil, so basically the coil is being driven by the function generator positive lead by a small capacitor and the ground common to both the function generator and the scope allow the return.

Seems to be an effect completely explained by conventional knowledge and logic. Anybody can do that.

Cheers

 - Yes, capacitive coupling is definitely affecting the circuit.  How much power leaks through I still haven't determined.
 - Grounding was my first thought too: that capacitive coupling was creating a circuit between function gen and scope ground.  The neat thing was that you get similar signals when you isolate the gen or scope.  The 12v battery method featured in B's video also worked (no return path to battery and still getting kicks, wtf right?).
 - LED in parallel with receiver coil dimly lights without a ground connection.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: totoalas on December 02, 2013, 10:08:25 PM
Hi Bruce,  Rei
In my set up without the Neutral and one out put wire Negative from a wall adaptor   Sony ac to dc wall      the circuit switched off ... Im using an ignition coil cap coil in series /and water tap to light 40 w of led lamps 100 % brightness @ 0 amps
Also If I want to amplify the secondary,  do I need to increase the coil size and turns??? a series Bifilar ??? 
thanks
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on December 02, 2013, 11:47:19 PM
So Reiyuki showed that a square wave can couple some energy into a coil and you will get a ring-down.  Myself, Farmhand, Reiyuki all made similar comments about what is taking place.  I suppose the most important point is that it's all normal and supposed to happen.  So there is nothing unusual or of any interest there if you assume that you are pursuing some form of free energy along the lines of Steven Mark.

Personally I view Steven Mark in the same league as Tariel Kapandze.  They both have produced mysterious inconclusive video clips.  Steven Mark could have been powering a light bulb with an alkaline AA battery hooked up to a Joule Thief circuit, there was more than enough room for that from what you see in his second or third-generation videotape videos.  You think I generate a lot of text?  TK and SM are responsible for endless reams and reams of text on this forum and elsewhere.

For Bruce, what do you mean by "electrons freed from the wire."  As far as the "PC Heroes" comment goes, you sure have an attitude for someone that's a beginner in electronics.  Like many people that play in this realm, there is a very good chance that you don't understand a lot of things, and you are making leaps of logic and forming relationships in your mind about your circuit that in all likelihood aren't correct.  The better approach is to be conservative and understand your limitations.

To me right now it looks like the wire is simply affecting Bruce's mysterious black box magnetic field detector that he demonstrates in his clips.  Effectively it's a noise glitch (when the wire jumps up or down in potential very suddenly) that propagates though the detector.  You can see how the voltage output from the black box current detector can be in two separate and distinct forms.  In the first form of the output, the black box sensor will show a magnet pass (like Bruce demonstrates in his clips).  In the second form of the output, noise glitches from the nearby wire (when it takes a sudden jump in potential) propagate through the circuitry and create a spike (glitch) on the scope display.  The glitch has nothing to do with the current in the wire.

Noise glitches can propagate through all types of circuitry.  Where Bruce is making a mistake is that he sees the noise glitch on the output from the black box and thinks that it represents a current pulse in the wire.  In fact it's not a current pulse, it's just noise that is disturbing the circuitry inside the black box and creating the pulse output.  This happens all the time in real life.  You can't always assume that the output from some kind of sensor or detector is 100% correct.  Every sensor only has a certain amount of immunity to external electronic noise.  It takes knowledge and experience to make a distinction between the two.

So it looks like this whole thing is just a tempest in a teapot and it's not the first time, nor will it be the last time that this happens on the forum.  In fact it happens all the time.  It's part of the learning curve with respect to the very complex subject of electronics.

MileHigh
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 03, 2013, 05:30:59 AM
So Reiyuki showed that a square wave can couple some energy into a coil and you will get a ring-down.  Myself, Farmhand, Reiyuki all made similar comments about what is taking place.  I suppose the most important point is that it's all normal and supposed to happen.  So there is nothing unusual or of any interest there if you assume that you are pursuing some form of free energy along the lines of Steven Mark.

Personally I view Steven Mark in the same league as Tariel Kapandze.  They both have produced mysterious inconclusive video clips.  Steven Mark could have been powering a light bulb with an alkaline AA battery hooked up to a Joule Thief circuit, there was more than enough room for that from what you see in his second or third-generation videotape videos.  You think I generate a lot of text?  TK and SM are responsible for endless reams and reams of text on this forum and elsewhere.

For Bruce, what do you mean by "electrons freed from the wire."  As far as the "PC Heroes" comment goes, you sure have an attitude for someone that's a beginner in electronics.  Like many people that play in this realm, there is a very good chance that you don't understand a lot of things, and you are making leaps of logic and forming relationships in your mind about your circuit that in all likelihood aren't correct.  The better approach is to be conservative and understand your limitations.

To me right now it looks like the wire is simply affecting Bruce's mysterious black box magnetic field detector that he demonstrates in his clips.  Effectively it's a noise glitch (when the wire jumps up or down in potential very suddenly) that propagates though the detector.  You can see how the voltage output from the black box current detector can be in two separate and distinct forms.  In the first form of the output, the black box sensor will show a magnet pass (like Bruce demonstrates in his clips).  In the second form of the output, noise glitches from the nearby wire (when it takes a sudden jump in potential) propagate through the circuitry and create a spike (glitch) on the scope display.  The glitch has nothing to do with the current in the wire.

Noise glitches can propagate through all types of circuitry.  Where Bruce is making a mistake is that he sees the noise glitch on the output from the black box and thinks that it represents a current pulse in the wire.  In fact it's not a current pulse, it's just noise that is disturbing the circuitry inside the black box and creating the pulse output.  This happens all the time in real life.  You can't always assume that the output from some kind of sensor or detector is 100% correct.  Every sensor only has a certain amount of immunity to external electronic noise.  It takes knowledge and experience to make a distinction between the two.

So it looks like this whole thing is just a tempest in a teapot and it's not the first time, nor will it be the last time that this happens on the forum.  In fact it happens all the time.  It's part of the learning curve with respect to the very complex subject of electronics.

MileHigh

I think you write things on purpose to get under my skin.  And I also think you are a paid operative like your buddy TK to haunt these forums.

What part of, "I moved on to a resistor" does not compute?

Is my English bad?  Are you deaf and dumb?  So the NOISE of the circuitry is it?  That has got to be the lamest, stupidest thing I have heard to date.   :o

What part of the circuitry of my resistor is affected pray tell?

And my magnetic pickup ONLY picks up magnetic fields.  And a pickup coil has its circuitry broken too?

You are really showing your idiotic refusal to accept anything new or to even ever experiment.

Your job is to hinder any people from finding out the truth. 

At this point...  laughable. You are like a drowning man gasping at a straw.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 03, 2013, 05:32:49 AM
Hi Bruce,  Rei
In my set up without the Neutral and one out put wire Negative from a wall adaptor   Sony ac to dc wall      the circuit switched off ... Im using an ignition coil cap coil in series /and water tap to light 40 w of led lamps 100 % brightness @ 0 amps
Also If I want to amplify the secondary,  do I need to increase the coil size and turns??? a series Bifilar ??? 
thanks

Please post a circuit and a picture and I will assist you.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on December 03, 2013, 06:32:37 AM
Bruce:

I'm sorry I am just giving you my viewpoint and you should consider it.  I have a quite a bit of electronics experience.  I'm not one of those guys and that's ridiculous.  You are also going overboard.  I am commenting on your clips where you have the project box current sensor, not your resistor.  You have to realize that so why the crazy talk?  I haven't seen any setup with a resistor.  I hope you will show it later then I can comment.

Quote
And my magnetic pickup ONLY picks up magnetic fields.

You don't know that for sure.  I have seen various circuits pick up extraneous noise all my life.  Sharp, high-slew-rate voltage transitions and current transitions can cause this.  If you can show us what both pickups are, the project box and the resistor setup, that would be great.

What you are observing I and many others have seen in other situations that are similar.  If you can observe a tick on a scope input you have to remember that the input resistance of the scope is about one megaohm.  So that high resistance input allows the scope to display very feeble voltage pulses with almost no energy in them.  So it's not surprising to see an event on the scope when the wire abruptly changes in potential.  That produces a sharp transition in the ambient electrical field around the wire and that sharp transition can result in you seeing a tiny "tick" pulse on your scope.

I think in your clips you see positive and negative ticks.  That could be a clue because the wire can change potential in two directions, and each direction could generate it's respective tick.  If you were interested you could do some investigations along these lines.

Also, I am just telling you what might be happening in your circuit from what I see.  I am not sure that what I am saying is true, but there is a very decent possibility that it is happening or something very similar is happening.  In many digital logic families they intentionally limit the slew rate of the voltage transitions on the outputs to reduce these effects.

MileHigh
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: forest on December 03, 2013, 08:09:19 AM
MileHigh


That talk is useless. Please propose better method of measurement , some which would show without doubts Bruce has something unusual here or it's "just a noise". Now I know why there is only small exceprt on interation of vacuum bulb filaments with external magnetic field. There is more silly debates then it's worth so nobody can jump further...
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: cheappower2012 on December 03, 2013, 11:07:33 AM
Mark Dansie referred to SM as a conman that cheated Australian investors out of millions,
of course the investors were greedy,that was there down fall.
Here is SM in all hes glory showing 2 TPU's to some investors(suckers),the  guy talking to the investors after the demo is full of bull shit
and is another conman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_fRKxz_UNo&feature=channel&list=UL

The inverter was a modified triplight inverter 12vdc to 110vac,keep in mind the year 1997,SM paid someone to do the modifing
,they changed the transformer  so it can accept 180 vdc ,it converts this to 110 vac.In my opinion SM is a liar, a conman and a crook,however the tpu is real.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 03, 2013, 06:47:03 PM
Mark Dansie referred to SM as a conman that cheated Australian investors out of millions,
of course the investors were greedy,that was there down fall.
Here is SM in all hes glory showing 2 TPU's to some investors(suckers),the  guy talking to the investors after the demo is full of bull shit
and is another conman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_fRKxz_UNo&feature=channel&list=UL

The inverter was a modified triplight inverter 12vdc to 110vac,keep in mind the year 1997,SM paid someone to do the modifing
,they changed the transformer  so it can accept 180 vdc ,it converts this to 110 vac.In my opinion SM is a liar, a conman and a crook,however the tpu is real.

Be careful with what judgment you judge another, for with that same measure shall be meted out to you...   ;)

The TPU IS real.  And Steven's clues have proven out to me and a few others..very real.   :)

Cheers,

Bruce
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 03, 2013, 07:00:40 PM
MileHigh


That talk is useless. Please propose better method of measurement , some which would show without doubts Bruce has something unusual here or it's "just a noise". Now I know why there is only small exceprt on interation of vacuum bulb filaments with external magnetic field. There is more silly debates then it's worth so nobody can jump further...

Hi Forest,

Use a resistor...you'd be surprised.   ;)
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on December 03, 2013, 10:10:00 PM
Noise coupling in circuits:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uMjC8J3CLM

Capacitive coupling in circuits:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhdJKa6WOW8

Inductive coupling in circuits 1 of 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNBZZBfOBRA

Inductive coupling in circuits 2 of 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7Lw0BAHTIc

You learn a new thing every day.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 03, 2013, 10:23:21 PM
Wow Mile high, you can copy and paste YouTube video's....

This is NONE of your copy and pasted....

Accept it...  or not.

It is NOT a new phenomenon either.  Nothing "new" under the sun.

Hey I know...  You are "so good at electronics"...set up a on/off switch, a voltage source and hey, you don't trust magnetic pickups or coils, because they "must" be lying to you, then use a resistor.

And see for yourself.

I...WE on this forum already know that you won't...   

One can ONLY wonder...Why NOT? 

Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MeggerMan on December 03, 2013, 10:36:11 PM
Hi Bruce,
Think that SM could have faked nearly all the experiments using stripped down Cyclon batteries.
That is not to say I think he did - just that, I think, the battery tech was available then and it would have been fairly easy to pull off.
I am sure Cyclon batteries were around at the time as they were used by control line model planes that looped around a pole in the ground.


Hawker Energy


D cell 63mm x 34mm Dia. 2.5Ah
Output: 65A @1.5V =  ~97 watts (very high discharge current)


He could have used say 2 or 3 cells for a 100 watt supply.


[size=78%]If you look at the size of every toroidal shaped device it is nearly always 60mm in height.[/size]
So my thought is that he pulled each cell apart and partly un-rolled the spiral that makes up the cell and made them into a ring shape.
The using a long strip of transformer silicon steel (60mm width), 0.3mm thick, wound a thin toroidal transformer.
Using  the SG5124 or TL494 and a couple of mosfets, a reed switch and there you have it.
All this would have fitted in even the smallest device.
For the gyroscopic effect use a small motor and flywheel


The only demo I cannot explain is where he shows the device working at then cuts it into pieces with a jigsaw.
The open frame devices are shown to power lamps, that have heavy ceramic bases (probably containing a toroidal TPU).
You will notice he switches to a heavy toroidal device when powering the bulb in a simple small plastic base.


Has anyone tried to contact Mercury Marilla to see if he has further info?
He did say he still has the original tapes.


Meggerman



Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on December 04, 2013, 12:10:27 AM
Bruce:

I don't have a scope or a bench, so I won't be making any tests.  So you can stop hammering on that point.

Indeed, there is nothing new in what you are showing.  In fact, the circuit is doing exactly what it's supposed to be doing.  That sets up a classic problem that occurs very frequently on the forums.  An experimenter sees something and gets all excited and believes that either they have discovered a new phenomenon or they have evidence for their theory of free energy.  Usually it's due to inexperience with respect to electronics.

In your case you see ticks and talk about getting energy from the Earth's magnetic field.  Or you talk about voltage alone doing something with no current, and stuff like that.

There is an explanation for what you are observing and it's all 100% conventional.  There is no excess energy or anything like that.  Your clips show the reality of what you are observing on your bench and that can't be challenged.  It's the interpretation where there is an issue and you need to relax and try to listen to other views.

Meggerman:

Indeed, SM using a hidden power source is the most likely explanation.  In clips like these, the "show time" is invariably limited because of the relatively high power consumption.  It also can spoof lots of people because they see a light bulb and they intuitively (and incorrectly) believe that it couldn't be batteries because batteries are normally low voltage and a light bulb is normally high voltage.

MileHigh
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: cheappower2012 on December 04, 2013, 12:17:47 AM
Bruce_TPU ,you suffer from SM hero worship,(SM can't lie,won't lie,and wants you to make hes TPU),
like some members at
Overunity Research you can't admit SM lies,was a conman and a crook.Everything
SM told you about TPU operation is a lie,your a fool if you believe it.
SM cheated countless people you can not take anything he said as truth.
Your blind to this fact,Jack Durban said of SM,"he lies even when he doesn't need to".
The first step in understanding How the TPU works is acknowledging SM is a conman ,liar and a crook.
I'm not a newbie,I have been around a long time and I remember you,
bouncing around the TPU threads then.At least a 100 replications of the TPU were done non worked
using information from SM.Why Milehigh debates with you is perplexing,talking to you is like going to an insane
asylum,asking to talk to the most disturbed patient(the one in the padded room,with the straitjacket) and
and attempting to carry on a conversation.

Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 04, 2013, 06:32:22 AM
Bruce_TPU ,you suffer from SM hero worship,(SM can't lie,won't lie,and wants you to make hes TPU),
like some members at
Overunity Research you can't admit SM lies,was a conman and a crook.Everything
SM told you about TPU operation is a lie,your a fool if you believe it.
SM cheated countless people you can not take anything he said as truth.
Your blind to this fact,Jack Durban said of SM,"he lies even when he doesn't need to".
The first step in understanding How the TPU works is acknowledging SM is a conman ,liar and a crook.
I'm not a newbie,I have been around a long time and I remember you,
bouncing around the TPU threads then.At least a 100 replications of the TPU were done non worked
using information from SM.Why Milehigh debates with you is perplexing,talking to you is like going to an insane
asylum,asking to talk to the most disturbed patient(the one in the padded room,with the straitjacket) and
and attempting to carry on a conversation.

Ha!  Jack Durban said it so it must be true?  Really?  This from a man who confessed to plotting Stevens kidnapping, but didnt go through with it.  Excellent character witness.

I do not make judgements of other people based on internet comments.   I have over 600 pages of Stevens writings.  My judgements I make are based on what I read and discern for myself.

I am only concerned with the tpu, not what you or anyone else think that Steven did or did not do.

Look to the sin in your own life before passing judgment on another.  That is not SM worhip that is Bible.  I worship the Lord Jesus Christ the true Messiah, but will speak up for those who are dead and can not defend themselves fromslander.

I have said all I am going to say about your buddy mile high.  He can do his own testing (he wont) and his own experimenting (he won't).  That says it all, eh?  Lol. I dont debate arrogant pc heroes who should have been kickedvof of this forum a long time ago...with TK.  Ha...wanna talk about fraud?  How about Milehigh and Tk's "working" Ocal magnet motor..eh?  That was fraud, lying, and bearing false witness. 

Paid schills.  I know it.  They know it.

Poynt99 I respect 110 percent...but not these others.  Just sn fyi.

Have a good day!

Bruce
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: cimpocte on December 04, 2013, 07:06:27 AM
Hello Bruce ,

I'm watching your work regarding Steven Mark's TPU for a while and I respect and appreciate all your experiments and findings .
You said that : "I have over 600 pages of Stevens writings " and I'm a little bit confused because on the internet I could find only few compilations concerning this (some emails between Steven and Lindsay ) .

Can you post or tell me where I can find some of those writings of Steven Mark ?

Thank's in advance !

Best Regards
Theodor
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on December 04, 2013, 07:46:36 AM
Bruce:

I am just an ordinary person with a technical background.  Your allegations that I am a paid shill are absolutely and unequivocally untrue.  Plus you are not even using the meaning of the term properly.  I just post here and sometimes chat with TK, we are online friends.  Your unfounded allegations about me and fraud are raising a few eyebrows around here.  I fight fraud and many people can attest to that.

With respect to arrogance, perhaps you should consider why any government agent would have any interest in you.  You are just an ordinary guy like me playing with a scope, batteries, transistors and coils.  The idea that the government is watching the free energy websites to preserve the current order in the economic system is just a tall tale being spun by the other side.  You know the people that make Sterling Allen jump through hoops?  Those are the guys that you should be worried about.

The TPU is a dead end because magnetics are really well understood.  I would take it that you disagree.  So the challenge for you is to demo something if you really have something.  But if and when you share, you are doing so in the context of a forum where different views can be expressed.

Bruce, there are societal issues at play.  If we assume for the sake of argument that the whole Steven Mark thing is bunk, then if you actively promote it and keep dropping hints that you have something, then as a society these things have to be debated.  This feedback or control system is a vital part of our collective well being.  We as a society have made so many mistakes in the past and we will keep on making mistakes.  But we have to learn and adapt to prevent mistakes also.

There have been a lot of big burns in the free energy and renewable energy industry and a lot of innocent people have lost a lot of money.  You are not part and parcel of that at all, but the same principles are at play.  So we need some balance and you should respect that.  Nobody is stopping you if you have ideas to express or clips to make.  As part of that process you should be willing to engage with people in a civil manner.  If you are going to make a technical pitch then you have to deal with technical questions.  It's even supposed to be fun to debate.

MileHigh
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Hoppy on December 04, 2013, 09:16:56 AM
Hi Bruce,
Think that SM could have faked nearly all the experiments using stripped down Cyclon batteries.
That is not to say I think he did - just that, I think, the battery tech was available then and it would have been fairly easy to pull off.
I am sure Cyclon batteries were around at the time as they were used by control line model planes that looped around a pole in the ground.


Meggerman

Having followed the TPU thread through much of its long drawn-out existence, I agree that SM faked all of the smaller TPU's. It's also very likely that the large TPU was faked, despite being cut through with a hack saw, simply by cutting through the toroid in a convenient gap between battery cells.  As has been previously pointed out by Milehigh, its quite feasible to conceal enough batteries in all of the TPU's to demonstrate the lighting of lamps for the duration shown in the various videos posted. See my faked replication of the small TPU here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_3SRc8uaYo). This fake was quickly knocked-up using a 'ring' of Ni-Cad 'C' cells and a simple transformer inverter all wound up in black duct tape. I deliberately did not want to build this fake well enough to cast any doubt that it was not a fake, thus you can see the outline of the transformer and battery cells through the duct tape. However, I could have quite easily faked a much better built and more believable TPU, especially the big TPU.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: cheappower2012 on December 04, 2013, 09:58:02 AM
Hoppy
Here you go again,last time you called a.king21 a liar.Did you use a 100 watt bulb,what was the output dc or ac.How long did it light.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Hoppy on December 04, 2013, 02:02:37 PM
Hoppy
Here you go again,last time you called a.king21 a liar.Did you use a 100 watt bulb,what was the output dc or ac.How long did it light.

  ??? To the contrary, as I have in the past congratulated Bruce on his work. Just because my opinion is that SM most likely faked his videos, does not mean that I think that Bruce is lying and I have certainly not said this!

The bulb I used was 240V / 60W rated and it stayed alight for at least 10mins. The bulb ran on AC. The cells were not tagged sintered plate, so I could have had much better performance from good quality, heavy duty Ni-Cads.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: rensseak on December 04, 2013, 02:11:01 PM
  ??? To the contrary, as I have in the past congratulated Bruce on his work. Just because my opinion is that SM most likely faked his videos, does not mean that I think that Bruce is lying and I have certainly not said this!

The bulb I used was 240V / 60W rated and it stayed alight for at least 10mins. The bulb ran on AC. The cells were not tagged sintered plate, so I could have had much better performance from good quality, heavy duty Ni-Cads.

And what was the weight of your faked TPU?
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Hoppy on December 04, 2013, 03:26:51 PM
And what was the weight of your faked TPU?

I didn't weigh it.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Farmhand on December 04, 2013, 07:11:45 PM
And what was the weight of your faked TPU?

Can you list the weights of all of SM's "tpu's". I don't see what weight has to do with it.

SM would have used the latest in battery tech as well as the smallest transformers that would work for a few minutes without burning out. All the investors were likely either "plants" or were the targets to be ripped off. Use some fake investors to suck in some real ones. Con men do that kind of stuff.

The scientist guy he got an opinion from was likely paid. No one has replicated any part of any effects of free energy from a tpu.

The concerns of most of us are many, but one of my concerns is that people like you keep the myth alive and new people get sucked in, they come to forums like this and cause havoc they ask all kinds of questions people cannot answer without offending or embarrassing them Same happens with Tesla, nutcases like Utkin push all kinds of rubbish and then we get bombarded with the questions about obscure theories that make no sense or are clearly bastardizations of Tesla's intent.

Back to SM, I could tell by looking at him and his manner that he was a con man, big time, his answers to question and his comments rang alarm bells in me immediately.

No different in principal to Witts and other con artists.

My question to Bruce is, you have a lot of time working on this stuff. Can you show us 10 Watts of free power dissipated in a load from a tpu with no batteries or other power supply connected at any time while running, any thing you can wave a magnet over and get to power a load ?

..
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: rensseak on December 04, 2013, 08:46:17 PM
Can you list the weights of all of SM's "tpu's". I don't see what weight has to do with it.
Should I belive you more then Dr. Schinziger? He could not detect any fraud
and no battery could have provided the output power.
Quote
SM would have used the latest in battery tech as well as the smallest transformers that would work for a few minutes without burning out. All the investors were likely either "plants" or were the targets to be ripped off. Use some fake investors to suck in some real ones. Con men do that kind of stuff.
Even with the newest battery tech today you would not reach same result. If so, then pleas show here.
Quote
The scientist guy he got an opinion from was likely paid. No one has replicated any part of any effects of free energy from a tpu.
And you are not paid? And because till now no one could replicate the TPU means it is a fraud? Super logic of you.

Quote
The concerns of most of us are many, but one of my concerns is that people like you keep the myth alive and new people get sucked in, they come to forums like this and cause havoc they ask all kinds of questions people cannot answer without offending or embarrassing them Same happens with Tesla, nutcases like Utkin push all kinds of rubbish and then we get bombarded with the questions about obscure theories that make no sense or are clearly bastardizations of Tesla's intent.
People like you are only talking a lot without to contribute anything to it.
Quote
Back to SM, I could tell by looking at him and his manner that he was a con man, big time, his answers to question and his comments rang alarm bells in me immediately.
Seems you have a very bad glass ball at home.
Quote
My question to Bruce is, you have a lot of time working on this stuff. Can you show us 10 Watts of free power dissipated in a load from a tpu with no batteries or other power supply connected at any time while running, any thing you can wave a magnet over and get to power a load ?
Why should he do? Keep in mind that it is also a dangerous tech. and your attitude seems not be so friendly.  ;D
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Hoppy on December 04, 2013, 10:54:33 PM

Even with the newest battery tech today you would not reach same result. If so, then pleas show here.


I've just shown you a video of how at least the small TPU's it can be faked using batteries and these were not even good ones! Granted the big TPU would be a more of a challenge to fake using batteries but remember that with an operation at this scale involving investors, even the bulbs become an important component to properly investigate.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MeggerMan on December 05, 2013, 01:19:31 AM
@Hoppy,
You mention about using NiCd or NiMH batteries to fake this device.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think it would be possible.
The high current draw required is just not possible with these cells, plus the make of them I doubt would allow you to unspiral them to make a toroid shape.
Also, the tech behind this type of cell would have been very poor in 1997.
You must remember that if you want to build a fake replica, you have to use circa 1997 parts, not 2013 parts.
I have just tried various NiCd C cells and the best they can manage is about 4.5A
So 1.2V x 4.5A = 5.4W
A 20 cell drill pack for a cordless drill, 24V @ 4A could produce 96watts, but this would be very large.
Your video shows a large ring, not a small one.
Much better to use lead-acid cells as I mentioned before.
These can push about 400A on a single D cell.


@Bruce,
people have said this is not worth pursuing because we all know what there is to know about magnetics - not so true.
just recently Nasa have discovered magnetic portals that are opened up between the sun's and earth's magnetic fields.
If these portals could be controlled and a magnetic vortex channelled into a small device the output power could be very high.
If a large percentage of the power could be channelled it would probably vaporise even a very large device with ease.


http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sunearth/news/mag-portals.html#.Up_E399kf3U (http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sunearth/news/mag-portals.html#.Up_E399kf3U)


I have some ideas I plan to try using a magnetic resonant coupling setup to check for field disruption.
Additional chip based magnetic sensors could be employed to check for change of angle in the field patterns.


Meggerman
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Reiyuki on December 05, 2013, 01:42:08 AM
 ;)
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Farmhand on December 05, 2013, 01:50:29 AM
Should I belive you more then Dr. Schinziger? He could not detect any fraud
and no battery could have provided the output power.

No you should believe neither of us. You should only believe valid proof

Even with the newest battery tech today you would not reach same result. If so, then pleas show here.


Hoppy did that, and who would want to waste a lot of time to show an inverter made into a funny shape. Hoppy did the work already once. I applaud him for that, but to do it again makes little to no sense.

I also think it could have been some kind of receiver maybe but of waves generated by him.

And you are not paid? And because till now no one could replicate the TPU means it is a fraud? Super logic of you.
No I'm not paid, no one pays me to do anything period. That is my circumstance, like it or not.

No one replicating even with SM's help is a red flag yes, not conclusive proof it is fake and I never said that it was fake because of that one issue. You made out I said that but I didn't. Can you be trusted ?

People like you are only talking a lot without to contribute anything to it.

My first post in this thread was a contributing post i think it showed some experiments with multiple "kicks". You may have missed that.

Seems you have a very bad glass ball at home.Why should he do? Keep in mind that it is also a dangerous tech. and your attitude seems not be so friendly.  ;D

He doesn't have to do anything. Is there a reason i can not ask for some evidence of what he is claiming or promoting.

Dangerous tech that cannot be replicated, and no one can even show any free watts, I don't think so.

What is dangerous is people with little common sense and not much real knowledge of electronics experimenting with stuff that could be made dangerous by them.

If I am friendly or not does have no effect on the truth.

Now on top of everything we all know that some companies and the military are decades ahead in terms of tech than is allowed out to the public some companies may have had batteries in 1997 that are equal or even better than we see on the commercial market now. Maybe even nuclear batteries of some kind.

The point is no one knows what access/contacts SM had to companies or the military or above.

Where is he now ? What is his history before the demo's ? Has anyone had an in depth look into his earlier life to see if there are any connections to anything odd ?

Why is it not possible the good Dr. Schinziger could not have been offered a huge sum of money to make the assessment, or had his life threatened or that of his family.


Cheers
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on December 05, 2013, 02:22:08 AM
MeggerMan:

Quote
people have said this is not worth pursuing because we all know what there is to know about magnetics - not so true.
just recently Nasa have discovered magnetic portals that are opened up between the sun's and earth's magnetic fields.

You are misunderstanding what the Nasa clip means.  There nothing new about magnetics discussed in the Nasa clip and in fact the basis of the discussion in the clip is our current understanding of magnetic fields.  All that that clip is about is an interaction with the solar particle wind an the Earth's magnetic field.  In other words, it's a clip about learning more about the "space weather."

Quote
If these portals could be controlled and a magnetic vortex channelled into a small device the output power could be very high.
If a large percentage of the power could be channelled it would probably vaporise even a very large device with ease.

It might sound good on paper but it just doesn't work like that.  We can't extract power from the Aurora Borealis!

MileHigh
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: rensseak on December 05, 2013, 07:16:39 AM
I've just shown you a video of how at least the small TPU's it can be faked using batteries and these were not even good ones! Granted the big TPU would be a more of a challenge to fake using batteries but remember that with an operation at this scale involving investors, even the bulbs become an important component to properly investigate.

And how you would do it with the small and open TPU's?
There are already other one before you who build something like a TPU with batterys. But if it comes to the technical details, like the gyroscopic effect and some more, then they failed.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Hoppy on December 05, 2013, 08:36:46 AM
And how you would do it with the small and open TPU's?
There are already other one before you who build something like a TPU with batterys.

Where do we see the full length of the white output wires ref this (http://www.slideshare.net/niculaegeorge/a-detail-study-of-the-steven-mark-tpu-10721103) open TPU?
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: rensseak on December 05, 2013, 11:06:53 AM
No you should believe neither of us. You should only believe valid proof
It is more valid proof than your talking.

Quote
Hoppy did that, and who would want to waste a lot of time to show an inverter made into a funny shape. Hoppy did the work already once. I applaud him for that, but to do it again makes little to no sense.
And you are the witness of Hoppys fake TPU? And who did proof his TPU if it does ALL the things what the real TPU does?
Quote
I also think it could have been some kind of receiver maybe but of waves generated by him.
No I'm not paid, no one pays me to do anything period. That is my circumstance, like it or not.
Sound like there is still hope for you.  ;D
Quote
No one replicating even with SM's help is a red flag yes, not conclusive proof it is fake and I never said that it was fake because of that one issue. You made out I said that but I didn't. Can you be trusted ?
Of course it is hard to belive. SM gave use only some hints how it works and we can't grasp how is it done. If someone build a TPU just with batterys then he has also to show if it has a gyroscopic effect and all the other things SM did.
Quote
Now on top of everything we all know that some companies and the military are decades ahead in terms of tech than is allowed out to the public some companies may have had batteries in 1997 that are equal or even better than we see on the commercial market now. Maybe even nuclear batteries of some kind.

The point is no one knows what access/contacts SM had to companies or the military or above.

Where is he now ? What is his history before the demo's ? Has anyone had an in depth look into his earlier life to see if there are any connections to anything odd ?
As far as I know SM was a TV repair man and not connected to any secret millitary developments. In addition, it would have been very difficult to get any nuclear material to build a nuclear battery.
Quote
Why is it not possible the good Dr. Schinziger could not have been offered a huge sum of money to make the assessment, or had his life threatened or that of his family.
Why it took 10 years before we heard anything about this TPU? Questions over questions. And does it help us if we ask so many things?
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Farmhand on December 05, 2013, 11:38:10 AM
When I look at this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQXXodFVUCA&list=PL6C331C42D1367DE1 and others like it I see a big box under there that could contain a powerful transmitter or a rotating powerful magnet.

Hoppy did the toroid looking thing lighting a bulb, there is nothing to believe, do I think Hoppy faked the light, no the light was real I think. No one can prove or disprove anything really, we all can only suspect of what we see, one way or the other. When another person shows a device and how it works I will believe it, until then it is a fake as far as I am concerned. Things can be faked in many ways. An average magician/illusionist could likely put on such a demonstration, they do even more striking tricks than that. Do we believe what we see the illusion artists display is really done as they suggest. Not me.

Anyway good luck to those who try whatever they try. I give my opinion and make no apologies for that.


...

Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: cheappower2012 on December 05, 2013, 11:49:16 AM
Ok guys this tpu is fake in my opinion,the garage tpu,here is how it could possibly be done.
The point of this was not to show that some tpu's are fake but to eliminate them from
using them as reference points,this was not understood by my former tpu replicator members,they
got upset that I attacked there hero SM.
All parts SM could get at the local radio shack in 1996.What I do is compile information,to
show commonality and eliminate
the tpu's that are fake,the 4 inch tpu is fake also,I have built it and tested it,it also is made from
parts SM could get in 1996.
One thing in the garage when SM is plugging in lamps,all he had to do was remove the ac wires
from the house going to the ac Receptacle,put insulators on the ends of the wires.
Then put a wire across the ac Receptacle creating a short,then screw everything back together,
in the short video the home made
 lamp has a sealed lead acid battery,and an inverter ,SM could, in 1996, get both at radio shack.
The Receptacle i plug my lamp into has a wire across the connections,a short,there is no ac power there.
I believe you are dealing with a real device in the tpu,so because I can make fakes doesn't mean
that I think the tpu is fake only certain ones.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Hoppy on December 05, 2013, 01:05:47 PM
Ok guys this tpu is fake in my opinion,the garage tpu,here is how it could possibly be done.
The point of this was not to show that some tpu's are fake but to eliminate them from
using them as reference points,this was not understood by my former tpu replicator members,they
got upset that I attacked there hero SM.
All parts SM could get at the local radio shack in 1996.What I do is compile information,to
show commonality and eliminate
the tpu's that are fake,the 4 inch tpu is fake also,I have built it and tested it,it also is made from
parts SM could get in 1996.
One thing in the garage when SM is plugging in lamps,all he had to do was remove the ac wires
from the house going to the ac Receptacle,put insulators on the ends of the wires.
Then put a wire across the ac Receptacle creating a short,then screw everything back together,
in the short video the home made
 lamp has a sealed lead acid battery,and an inverter ,SM could, in 1996, get both at radio shack.
The Receptacle i plug my lamp into has a wire across the connections,a short,there is no ac power there.
I believe you are dealing with a real device in the tpu,so because I can make fakes doesn't mean
that I think the tpu is fake only certain ones.

When you originally posted this method of faking, I gave you full marks  ;D

However, I disagree with you about the big TPU being genuine. There is simply not enough good quality video footage to even begin ruling out the possibility of faking.

I admire Bruce's dogged perseverance studying the TPU and if anyone is going to crack the code, then I hope it will be Bruce. Personally, I'm so convinced that its all a put-up job that I would not spend good money trying to replicate an SM style TPU that self-runs. Lets hope Bruce can make me eat humble pie.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Farmhand on December 05, 2013, 01:51:52 PM
I think Tariel and SM use the same playbook, "the long con" in slightly different forms.

Link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_trick

Quote
In Confessions of a Confidence Man, Edward H. Smith lists the "six definite steps or stages of growth in every finely balanced and well-conceived confidence game."

"One follows the other with absolute precision. In some games one or more of these acts, to use a theatrical comparison, may be dropped out, but where that happens the game is not a model one. The reference to the stage is apt, for the fine con game has its introduction, development, climax, dénouement and close, just like any good play. And this is not the only analogy to the drama, for the scenes are often as carefully set; the background is always a vital factor. In the colorful and mirthful language of the bunko man, all these parts of the game have their special names. I give them with their definitions:

Foundation Work
The preparations which are made before the scheme is put in motion, including the elaboration of the plan, the employment of assistants and so forth.

Approach
The manner of getting in touch with the victim—often most elaborately and carefully prepared.

Build-up
Rousing and sustaining the interest of the victim, introducing the scheme to him, rousing his greed, showing him the chance of profit and filling him so full of anticipation and cupidity that his judgment is warped and his caution thrown away.

Pay-off or Convincer
An actual or apparent paying of money by the conspirators to convince the victim and settle doubts by a cash demonstration. In the old banco game the initial small bets which the victim was allowed to win were the pay-off. In stock swindles the fake dividends sent to stockholders to encourage larger investments are the pay-off.

The Hurrah
This is like the dénouement in a play and no con scheme is complete without it. It is a sudden crisis or unexpected development by which the sucker is pushed over the last doubt or obstacle and forced to act. Once the hurrah is sprung the victim is clay in the schemer’s hands or there is no game.

The In-and-In
This is the point in a con game where the conspirator puts some of his money into the deal with that of the victim; first, to remove the last doubt that may tarry in the gull’s mind, and, second, to put the con man in control of the situation after the deal is completed, thus forestalling a squeal. Often the whole game is built up around this feature and just as often it does not figure at all.

In addition, some games require what is called 'corroboration', which means what it says. This is important in games where a banker or other shrewd customer is to be the victim."
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on December 05, 2013, 10:13:40 PM
I think that Bruce stated that he has read all of the Steven Mark writings and they are pretty extensive.  I can't be sure but if we assume that Bruce got most or all of his theory for electronics and electromagnetics and the operation of the TPU from what Steven Mark wrote, then that has set up an incorrect framework or knowledge base for Bruce.  There are a lot of far out and invalid concepts that form the basis for the alleged operation of the Steven Mark TPU.

In looking at this clip by Bruce you can see some of the various concepts expressed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYfopAv945w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYfopAv945w)

The basic idea proposed is that high-voltage standing waves in his long back and forth transmission line will liberate electrons and they will collect on a multi-strand aluminum wire anode that's at a high potential.

He says, "(the electrons landing on the cathode) will add current to our collectors, and the current itself will assist in producing more current and more voltage."

It would be nice if current could spontaneously produce more current and more voltage but that doesn't happen in the real world.  Also Bruce discussed the voltage nodes in the transmission line standing wave and stated that they will give off electrons. There is no logical reason for that to happen.  In the clip, the fundamental thing to note is that the external voltage source (on the right side of each diagram) is the power source for getting the electrons to move from the cathode to the anode.  So the tube in Bruce's diagram is a passive load for the external voltage source and it's the external voltage source that supplies the electrons that are liberated off of the heated cathode.  The battery or AC source that heats up the cathode is not the source of the electrons that flow through the tube, all that that power source does is heat the cathode filament.

Note also that as the electrons in the tube cross the gap from the cathode to the anode, they don't get accelerated to nearly the speed of light as Bruce states.  Rather, the get accelerated to a certain number of electron-volts as per the voltage of the external voltage source.  So if the external voltage source is 100 volts, then the electrons can get accelerated to 100 electron-volts of kinetic energy.  I assume that some electrons crossing the gap also hit the gas molecules in the tube.  So some electrons give up some of their electron-volts of energy like this and heat the gas.  Probably the most important thing to remember is that you can put the whole tube inside a black box and from the external power supply's point of view, the tube simply looks like a resistor, with it's associated current flow and voltage drop.  (Note there are no control grids in the tube schematic shown by Bruce, so it's a passive tube that just dissipates power.)

So the mechanism for the TPU is simply far fetched and the underlying concepts expressed by Bruce, presumably from the Steven Mark writings, are simply not valid.

Now I know that this is probably going to upset Bruce, but the standard request is always there:  If you think that you have something then please by all means go ahead and demo it and prove your case.  A good start would be a well made, well documented video where all of the steps and all of the measurements are clearly shown.  If you need a power input then fine and of course you must have a load.  The power input measurements and the power output measurements are of utmost importance and you should pay extra attention to that.

MileHigh
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on December 05, 2013, 11:25:56 PM
I will also make some comments on Bruce's second 2013 instructional video on the TPU:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOHk5YQoI44 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOHk5YQoI44)

Bruce states that the transmission line will be tuned to electrical standing waves and also to sound standing waves.  I can't think of any possible reason to tune the electrical transmission line to the sound standing waves.  Sound is mechanical energy and has nothing really to do with electrical energy in the context of Bruce's setup consisting of a long transmission line cable where the electrical signal goes back and forth inside the multi-strand cable.

Bruce talks a lot about the Shumann resonance with the fundamental of about 7.8 Hz and how both the electrical standing waves and the mechanical standing waves in his TPU transmission line are related harmonics of the Shumann resonance.  I am going to assume that this stuff comes directly from Steven Mark's writings.  There is a lot of misunderstanding about the Shumann resonance on the forums and people imagine relationships between their setup on the bench and the Shumann resonance.  This whole deal is a giant misnomer and I believe that various professional players in the free energy cottage industry intentionally misuse and exploit the concept of the Shumann resonance for their own personal gain.  Steven Mark is likely one of them.  The reality is that you never even have to think about the Shumann resonance ever.  It will never affect your circuit an for all practical intents and purposes it may as well not even exist.

Bruce says how Steven Mark discusses the Shumann resonance and how his TPUs tap into it.  That's the deal breaker for Steven Mark right there.  It's nonsense and therefore you are not going too far to conclude that the whole Steven Mark pitch is just a pitch with nothing to back it up.  Like I said above, you can forget about the Schumann resonance relative to whatever resonant circuit you are working on on your bench.  There is just nothing there, at all.  There is nothing to tap into.  You simply cannot capture any energy bouncing around inside the Schumann resonance, which is "pumped" by random lighting strikes.  It's simply nuts to think that you can do something practical with the energy in the lossy Shumann resonant cavity.  The energy is simply not there in any practical amount on your bench.  It would barely be detectable and the average Shuman resonant EM radiated power density per cubic meter of space is so ridiculously low that you may as well forget it.  I have to emphasize that the whole concept doesn't make any sense at all.

I don't think Bruce is a bad guy at all.  However his desire and passion to succeed may have compelled him to swallow the whole Steven Mark storyline and decide to not question anything.  In a way that's another form of "stealing."  This is not stealing money, but it's stealing someone's time and passion and mental energy because they direct it into a dead end and get nothing in return.  It arguably even hurts them because they construct a misguided belief system in their minds.  It's just as bad as stealing someone's money and that's wrong.

MileHigh
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MeggerMan on December 05, 2013, 11:31:30 PM
MeggerMan:

You are misunderstanding what the Nasa clip means.  There nothing new about magnetics discussed in the Nasa clip and in fact the basis of the discussion in the clip is our current understanding of magnetic fields.  All that that clip is about is an interaction with the solar particle wind an the Earth's magnetic field.  In other words, it's a clip about learning more about the "space weather."

It might sound good on paper but it just doesn't work like that.  We can't extract power from the Aurora Borealis!

MileHigh


@MileHigh

Maybe it depends on the way you interpret the article.

The important basis of this discussion is how the Sun's magnetic field connects with the Earth's magnetic field to form a conduit down which the stream of tons of energetic particles hit the upper atmosphere of the Earth.
The polar auroras and magnetic storms are a result of this connection and is not the main point of the article as I see it.

My thought is that if we can generate a connection portal using an electromagnetic device then we might be able to harness the magnetic energy in that portal - not from the energetic particles.

@Cheappower2012,
Excellent work!

Yes, my thoughts exactly - the open frame device just creates a high voltage.  He could have got this 90v from a 1.5V pulse generator / flashgun circuit.
It did strike me as odd as to why he puts the probes from the voltage meter to some test points instead of the crock clips to the lamp.
If you doing a true test you would have 2 meters, one for current and one for voltage and show the current rise as it was connected to the load.
Those heavy lamps were just too obvious.
Then to add insult to injury, he uses a heavy taped toroidal TPU to power the lamp with a simple plastic base - and if you notice at the end of the test he turns the TPU upside down on the table so switching it off.

Meggerman
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Rosphere on December 06, 2013, 12:56:15 AM
I don't have a scope or a bench, so I won't be making any tests.
...
...You are just an ordinary guy like me playing with a scope, batteries, transistors and coils.
...


Did he mean, "You are an ordinary guy, like me, but you play with a scope, batteries, transistors and coils?"  That would be more consistent.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on December 06, 2013, 01:04:51 AM
Rosphere:

What's your point?  Just go ahead and state it and I will be pleased to respond.

MileHigh
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 06, 2013, 02:53:23 AM
I wash my hands of this thread with no moderator.

All future kick references or questions can be asked on my thread concerning the kick.

Nothing further will be given on this thread by me.

I turn this thread over to disunity incorporated.com

Nor will I respond to an individual SO skilled in electronics he doesn't even have a scope?  Really?  Doesnt that strike you all as "odd"?   :o

And he has no "bench"?  A bench is a coffee table with electronics to some or a garage or kitchen table or ANYPLACE to do an experiment.

So...conclusion.   what DOES he have?
1.  Hot air
2.  More Hot Air
3.  Asked a member of this forum to perpetrate a hoax on the communit to "teach" them a lesson.
Why?  Because he is a fraud.  Phony.  Fake.  This is fact.

And still many of you give this man the time of day.

He and tk and those like him are the reason that HUNDREDS have left this forum.  Myself included. 

Nothing will EVER be made public on this forum. 

Don't you all understand yet??? ::)

These will not allow it.  It is the reason they are here.

Energy is  billions of dollar empire.  If I were in charge of protecting that, I would put people just like this to dissuade you all from anything real.

Post on my thread ONLY about a kick experiment or question or it will be deleted.

Grace and peace,

Bruce
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Farmhand on December 06, 2013, 04:59:29 AM
Rosphere:

What's your point?  Just go ahead and state it and I will be pleased to respond.

MileHigh

I think he was having a dig at your grammar in the last paragraph. I often fail to use good grammar as well.

..
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: cheappower2012 on December 06, 2013, 05:11:35 AM
Meggerman

Here is how the 4 inch TPU was done,however,heres some advice this does not
mean that other TPU's are fake to take this opinion is not a good idea.
SM doesn't think in a conventional way,the use of fakes, is to sweeten the pie,
to appeal to the greed of the investors,to make them  believe there buying
a way to make small TPU's.There is a size limitation,real small devices were not possible.
The conventional view is you faked one, you must have faked them all,this is not how
SM thinks,hes thinking is
if they think I can make small ones, I can land the sucker investor,since I have real
 devices no one will question the fake ones,once I get hes money ,I will burn him and give him nothing.
I dug this up its been laying around,I made this a long time ago.It is 11, 9 volt
 alkaline batteries connected in a circle,the light used is a 100 watt bulb,it will light a 100 watt
bulb for the time its on the video about a minute,the batteries are run down now.The batteries he could get at Radio Shack in 1996.
Now the humor in this,he pretends it vibrates,claims a magnet starts it,the magnet sticks to the battery case,then he turns it upside
down to reinforce the belief it can't work upside down,LOL.Remember SM can't lie ,wouldn't lie
and wants you to build hes TPU,LOL.

Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on December 06, 2013, 05:14:36 AM
Bruce:

There is no moderator in real life and I haven't done anything wrong.  You are claiming a leadership position and I recall that several months ago you were going to charge people a monthly fee to follow your experiments so you could buy parts and stuff like that.  So you are a semi pro and you should in an ideal case be able to respond to the technical points.  But in fact you are unable to respond so you try to claim that I am all "hot air."  That's simply not true.  I know that you are emotionally involved in what you are doing.  But if you believe in what you are doing why don't you try to defend your position with a technical argument?  You believe that you can tap into the Schumann resonance and get power like that?  Then prove it with an argument and experimentation that backs up your argument and show some tangible data.  But you can't do that, can you?  We are all just supposed to take you at your word for it and apparently some people even have to pay for that privilege.

I looked at Giantkiller's clip.  He lays a scope probe near his coil setup and picks up some ticks.  You tried to claim that that backs up your research.  But in fact, what I said is the real truth.  I said that it's just standard signal coupling into the very sensitive high input impedance scope probe input and it means nothing and it's all normal.  I have seen it all my life and have thought nothing of it.  That's an example of how you are so focused on what you are doing that you are attributing perfectly normal effects and trying to claim that they are something special and related to your claim.  When you start doing wrong things like that you are leading yourself down a garden path.

The fact that I don't have a scope is inconsequential.  This is the second or third time I will state this:  I have thousands of hours of experience working on an electronics bench.

Quote
3.  Asked a member of this forum to perpetrate a hoax on the communit to "teach" them a lesson.
Why?  Because he is a fraud.  Phony.  Fake.  This is fact.

That is a disgusting lie and you should be ashamed of yourself for stating that a second time when I already refuted that point before in clear and unambiguous terms.  I have never perpetrated a hoax or asked a member to perpetrate a hoax on anybody on the forums and if what you were stating were true you would be able to cite links to back up your claim.  But of course you can't cite anything because it's not true.

I will repeat to you again Bruce:  Twice now you have alleged that I have committed fraud or encouraged inappropriate activity and it's a lie.  You have no evidence at all of that.  It's probably your emotional state in a kind of panic and all that you can do is make untrue allegations against me.  It's totally unacceptable and do not do it again.

The real reason I am here is just for fun and to debate and to sometimes help people.  I have designed one of the the most sophisticated pulse motors ever seen on the forums.  I just proposed a variant on a Joule Thief type of design for an LED lamp and again, it's one of the most sophisticated designs ever seen in the realm of Joule Thieves.

I am just giving you the real deal as far as I see it.  You have ignored every request from myself and others to show something with tangible results.  That's not a good thing and I will assume that you are hoping that you will find the "magic configuration" that does the trick.   Sadly, the "magic configuration" is just another tired worn out cliche that I assume many people that are hoping for positive results are also getting tired of.

MileHigh

Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Magluvin on December 06, 2013, 05:41:42 AM


That is a disgusting lie and you should be ashamed of yourself for stating that a second time when I already refuted that point before in clear and unambiguous terms.  I have never perpetrated a hoax or asked a member to perpetrate a hoax on anybody on the forums and if what you were stating were true you would be able to cite links to back up your claim.  But of course you can't cite anything because it's not true.

I will repeat to you again Bruce:  Twice now you have alleged that I have committed fraud or encouraged inappropriate activity and it's a lie.  You have no evidence at all of that. 

"You have no evidence at all of that."

But I do. ;) ;D :o

http://www.overunity.com/12147/this-might-blow-your-mind/msg315414/#msg315414

 :P


"Mags:

The reason you would want to make a motor that runs on a concealed battery would be as a lesson for others.  Too many people look at clips like that and they believe that they are real.  That's how the Perendev motor guy got rich and then got busted and is now in jail.  To be honest though that is secondary to my main point.  My main point was to use your scope and your wits and construct a timing diagram for the device.  Show the voltages and currents induced into the circuit as the magnet rotates.  That would not be easy for most people to do, it's a challenge.  Then you explain the timing diagram and that explains how the device works. It also would clearly explain how it's impossible for the device to work unless you add a battery.  The whole point is to demystify the device."


Then I said...

"Ok, first off, How many people here would rather that I, Magluvin, build a fake Z motor, rather than build one that might work for real?   First sentence. Easy one.  (http://www.overunity.com/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Im for the real deal. Trix are for kids.  (http://www.overunity.com/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

Next

If too many people look at vids like that and believe they are real, do you not think that there are many other videos out there already doing just as you suggest that you could refer them to? Advertize those why dont you. I dont need to be reinventing the wheel, when there already is plenty to choose from. It doesnt get me any closer to my original goal, it delays it.  (http://www.overunity.com/Smileys/default/cool.gif)

I need to spend my time doing what this site here is intended for.  True Dat.

I am not Prendev. Im not taking investments. Im not building fakes.  Open source dude. You can google it. "



 ;D   The truth shall set you free!  But not a drop to be found. :P ;D

Mags  ;)
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on December 06, 2013, 06:26:56 AM
Magluvin:

I told you to NOT ENGAGE WITH ME ON THE FORUM because it quickly becomes a pissing contest and then you get abusive and call me names like "Idiot" and "Freak" over and over and I told you in no uncertain terms that it was unacceptable.  You have never had the character to own up to your unacceptable abusive behaviour and apologize for it.

Here is an example:

<<<
Here are some of your comments:

"That vid you posted is malarky with math to explain the malarky. People deserve the truth, and that vid isnt it."
"If I see you preaching garbage, I will respond."

If Bill had posted the link to that same clip, would you have commented like that?
If Poynt had posted the link to that same clip, would you have commented like that?
If Farmhand had posted the link to that same clip, would you have commented like that?
If Brad had posted the link to that same clip, would you have commented like that?

We all know that the answer is that you would never had made comments like that.  This sick abusive behavior from you has to stop.

In one of the three waves where you relentlessly and viciously attacked me for weeks and weeks on end you called me a "freak" between half a dozen and a dozen times.  Then in another of the waves you called me an "idiot" perhaps 20 times.

You tell everyone right here and right now why you called me a "freak" on a public forum.
>>>

You have better get it through your thick head that I don't want you to engage with me at all.

Here is your quote again from me 1 1/2 years ago:

<<<  The reason you would want to make a motor that runs on a concealed battery would be as a lesson for others.  Too many people look at clips like that and they believe that they are real.  That's how the Perendev motor guy got rich and then got busted and is now in jail.  To be honest though that is secondary to my main point.  My main point was to use your scope and your wits and construct a timing diagram for the device.  Show the voltages and currents induced into the circuit as the magnet rotates.  That would not be easy for most people to do, it's a challenge.  Then you explain the timing diagram and that explains how the device works. It also would clearly explain how it's impossible for the device to work unless you add a battery.  The whole point is to demystify the device."  >>>

But of course you leave out the context.  We were discussing a fake motor clip on YouTube.  So I suggested that one way to educate people would be to emulate the same clip by building a comparable fake and then explaining to your audience how you built the fake.   The point being you are trying to do something positive by exposing a fake and showing how easy it was to do so that your audience would be that much wiser and learn from the experience.

Then you take that positive and take it out context and try to spin it as me having committed fraud or having encouraged inappropriate activity.  And of course it's not true but that doesn't seem to matter to you.

You are a morally bankrupt individual.  You think you see an opening to "get at me" so you go back 1 1/2 years and post something out of context in a failed attempt to make me look bad and make it look like I was lying and contradicting myself.  You are one pathetic desperate spin doctor with no morals and you will do anything you can go get at me, even if you have to make yourself look like an obsessed fool.

You fucking asshole Magluvin, what you just did illustrates precisely why I told you to NOT ENGAGE WITH ME ON THE FORUM.  What you just did is pure low life sleaze in a stupid nonsensical and untrue attempt to impugn my character.  You are fucking pathetic and stay the fuck away from me.

DO NOT ENGAGE WITH ME ON THE FORUM.

MileHigh
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Magluvin on December 06, 2013, 06:48:21 AM
Magluvin:

I told you to NOT ENGAGE WITH ME ON THE FORUM because it quickly becomes a pissing contest and then you get abusive and call me named like "Idiot" and "Freak" over and over and I told you in no uncertain terms that it was unacceptable.  You have never had the character to own up to your unacceptable abusive behaviour and apologize for it.

Here is an example:

<<<
Here are some of your comments:

"That vid you posted is malarky with math to explain the malarky. People deserve the truth, and that vid isnt it."
"If I see you preaching garbage, I will respond."

If Bill had posted the link to that same clip, would you have commented like that?
If Poynt had posted the link to that same clip, would you have commented like that?
If Farmhand had posted the link to that same clip, would you have commented like that?
If Brad had posted the link to that same clip, would you have commented like that?

We all know that the answer is that you would never had made comments like that.  This sick abusive behavior from you has to stop.

In one of the three waves where you relentlessly and viciously attacked me for weeks and weeks on end you called me a "freak" between half a dozen and a dozen times.  Then in another of the waves you called me an "idiot" perhaps 20 times.

You tell everyone right here and right now why you called me a "freak" on a public forum.
>>>

You have better get it through your thick head that I don't want you to engage with me at all.

Here is your quote again from me 1 1/2 years ago:

<<<  The reason you would want to make a motor that runs on a concealed battery would be as a lesson for others.  Too many people look at clips like that and they believe that they are real.  That's how the Perendev motor guy got rich and then got busted and is now in jail.  To be honest though that is secondary to my main point.  My main point was to use your scope and your wits and construct a timing diagram for the device.  Show the voltages and currents induced into the circuit as the magnet rotates.  That would not be easy for most people to do, it's a challenge.  Then you explain the timing diagram and that explains how the device works. It also would clearly explain how it's impossible for the device to work unless you add a battery.  The whole point is to demystify the device."  >>>

But of course you leave out the context.  We were discussing a fake motor clip on YouTube.  So I suggested that one way to educate people would be to emulate the same clip by building a comparable fake and then explaining to your audience how you built the fake.   The point being you are trying to do something positive by exposing a fake and showing how easy it was to do so that your audience would be that much wiser and learn from the experience.

Then you take that positive and take it out context and try to spin it as me having committed fraud or having encouraged inappropriate activity.  And of course it's not true but that doesn't seem to matter to you.

You are a morally bankrupt individual.  You think you see an opening to "get at me" so you go back 1 1/2 years and post something out of context in a failed attempt to make me look bad and make it look like I was lying and contradicting myself.  You are one pathetic desperate spin doctor with no morals and you will do anything you can go get at me, even if you have to make yourself look like an obsessed fool.

You fucking asshole Magluvin, what you just did illustrates precisely why I told you to NOT ENGAGE WITH ME ON THE FORUM.  What you just did is pure low life sleaze in a stupid nonsensical and untrue attempt to impugn my character.  You are fucking pathetic and stay the fuck away from me.

DO NOT ENGAGE WITH ME ON THE FORUM.

MileHigh

"But of course you leave out the context.  We were discussing a fake motor clip on YouTube.  So I suggested that one way to educate people would be to emulate the same clip by building a comparable fake and then explaining to your audience how you built the fake.   The point being you are trying to do something positive by exposing a fake and showing how easy it was to do so that your audience would be that much wiser and learn from the experience."


For you it is a positive experience.  Because you are negative toward ideas of OU.

Lets say I make a fake with a battery.  And it looks like a real deal, no batteries required. When people see it, and think its real at first, the the reveal that it is fake, it instills negativity toward the possibility of OU. So once some people see what looks like a working device, and each time it ends up a fake, soon they will neglect all ideas. It will instill absence of objectivity. Its like teaching "common core" education. " This is this and that is that, now move along folks, nothing more the see on these subjects." 8)   And thats exactly what you preach.  8) Move along folks, its all been worked out already. Move along. Nothing more to see here. ::)

Our great grand children will be lucky if they are just meat with eyes.


"But of course you leave out the context.  We were discussing a fake motor clip on YouTube."

You cannot prove it was a fake. Any evidence you have is all circumstantial. Yet you state it as fact that it is fake. Because that is your motive. 8) ;) Guilty until proven innocent. ;) ::)

Mags
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Magluvin on December 06, 2013, 07:06:22 AM


In one of the three waves where you relentlessly and viciously attacked me for weeks and weeks on end you called me a "freak" between half a dozen and a dozen times.  Then in another of the waves you called me an "idiot" perhaps 20 times.

You tell everyone right here and right now why you called me a "freak" on a public forum.
>>>



You really need to get your numbers right. ???   Yes I have called you a freak.  ;) When it seems appropriate.  ;) Its not like you couldnt be a freak at the time.  ;D   Anyone cant be that. And I think it is PG13, sooo.  ::)

Idiot?  Yeah, I said it. ;)   20 times?   ::) ;D Perhaps 2, 3 times.  Otherwise show us the links, and show your audience Im perhaps a 20 timer. lol 

But, we can compare what i just admitted saying, to what you just said......


"You fucking asshole Magluvin, what you just did illustrates precisely why I told you to NOT ENGAGE WITH ME ON THE FORUM.  What you just did is pure low life sleaze in a stupid nonsensical and untrue attempt to impugn my character.  You are fucking pathetic and stay the fuck away from me.

So now what?   ;) Is your turrets acting up again? :P

Mags
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on December 06, 2013, 07:14:15 AM
I just sent Stefan an email that I copied you on requesting that he kick your ass off of this forum if you persist with your nonsense.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: MileHigh on December 06, 2013, 08:44:19 AM
I sent Stefan the following email and I will share it on this thread:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Stefan,

I thought making the points in a more simplified and succinct manner would help.

1.  BruceTPU alleges for a second time that I committed fraud or encouraged inappropriate activity.

2.  I respond stating that it's not true.  (Bruce has some nerve stating that.)

3.  Magluvin responds and takes a quote of mine out of context alleging that I encouraged inappropriate activity and calls me a liar.

I discussed making a fake motor for educational purposes to teach people to beware.  It was purely a hypothetical discussion and I never encouraged anybody to do anything wrong.  I was doing good when I had that conversation 1 1/2 years ago.

The issue is that you can't take a quote and twist the context and allege another person has encouraged inappropriate activity and also call them a liar when none of it is true.  It's unacceptable.

I have never encouraged inappropriate activity on this forum and I never would and I am a good person.  Magluvin is still alleging this after my response and it's simply unacceptable.  It's also completely ridiculous.  Magluvin is acting so sleazy and you can see from his last email that he is enjoying it.

Look at what he said, "You told Bruce you never encouraged making fakes. Well, I had shown that you did. So cry all you want."

Is is so ridiculous and so asinine it's almost hard to believe it's happening but unfortunately it's true that Magluvin made these totally inappropriate comments about me.

My posting 1 1/2 years ago was about a way of preventing fraud and Magluvin is trying to convince people that I encouraged fraud.

I really want this to stop and the only way that I can think of to make it stop is to put Magluvin on moderation or simply kick him off the forum.  I simply won't tolerate this nonsensical harassment and persecution from him.

MileHigh
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

None of you would like to be in this position, it's simply unacceptable.  Magluvin might think that he is cool playing the fool but he's not.   Some kind of situation like this could happen to any one of you, think about that.

MileHigh
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Hoppy on December 06, 2013, 09:27:06 AM

SM thinks,hes thinking is
if they think I can make small ones, I can land the sucker investor,since I have real
 devices no one will question the fake ones,once I get hes money ,I will burn him and give him nothing.


The problem for SM was that as his small ones were so obviously faked, no investor with a half competent tech investigator would believe his big one was genuine. Producing obvious fakes severely reduces any chance of convincing investors that you have the real McCoy.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: cheappower2012 on December 06, 2013, 10:19:03 AM
Hoopy
The small tpu's only appear in an investor video ,so there is no issues.
Jack Durban said the investors brought with them electronic experts
to look at the big tpu no fraud was found.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Farmhand on December 06, 2013, 10:31:06 AM
But who is Jack Durban ? And why should we trust what he says ?

..
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Hoppy on December 06, 2013, 10:38:42 AM
Hoopy
The small tpu's only appear in an investor video ,so there is no issues.
Jack Durban said the investors brought with them electronic experts
to look at the big tpu no fraud was found.

Was there a written report produced from the electronic experts for both the small and large ones?
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Hoppy on December 06, 2013, 10:43:16 AM
But who is Jack Durban ? And why should we trust what he says ?

..

If I was SM, I would have reinforced belief by putting a Jack Durban in my plan!
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Farmhand on December 06, 2013, 11:40:34 AM
Yep me too Hoppy, sounds like a plan ! Looking at the quote from Wiki below about long con tricks then Jack would come in at about the "Hurrah" stage, he could also be a "convincer" as well, and some of the "investors" could also be "convincers" and part of the "In and in". He could also be maybe a corroborator with the aid of the shill "investor" "convincers" and "Shill electronics experts" as well. Possibly the top shill himself. Magicians often use shills and similar techniques to do much more elaborate displays. So it is entirely possible. The "approach" and "Build up" could be done through the internet as well as other ways. Who knows. Who is who really. How do we know SM is not still posting anonymously ? Trying to get more dime or just for fun.

Quote
In Confessions of a Confidence Man, Edward H. Smith lists the "six definite steps or stages of growth in every finely balanced and well-conceived confidence game."

"One follows the other with absolute precision. In some games one or more of these acts, to use a theatrical comparison, may be dropped out, but where that happens the game is not a model one. The reference to the stage is apt, for the fine con game has its introduction, development, climax, dénouement and close, just like any good play. And this is not the only analogy to the drama, for the scenes are often as carefully set; the background is always a vital factor. In the colorful and mirthful language of the bunko man, all these parts of the game have their special names. I give them with their definitions:

Foundation Work
The preparations which are made before the scheme is put in motion, including the elaboration of the plan, the employment of assistants and so forth.

Approach
The manner of getting in touch with the victim—often most elaborately and carefully prepared.

Build-up
Rousing and sustaining the interest of the victim, introducing the scheme to him, rousing his greed, showing him the chance of profit and filling him so full of anticipation and cupidity that his judgment is warped and his caution thrown away.

Pay-off or Convincer
An actual or apparent paying of money by the conspirators to convince the victim and settle doubts by a cash demonstration. In the old banco game the initial small bets which the victim was allowed to win were the pay-off. In stock swindles the fake dividends sent to stockholders to encourage larger investments are the pay-off.

The Hurrah
This is like the dénouement in a play and no con scheme is complete without it. It is a sudden crisis or unexpected development by which the sucker is pushed over the last doubt or obstacle and forced to act. Once the hurrah is sprung the victim is clay in the schemer’s hands or there is no game.

The In-and-In
This is the point in a con game where the conspirator puts some of his money into the deal with that of the victim; first, to remove the last doubt that may tarry in the gull’s mind, and, second, to put the con man in control of the situation after the deal is completed, thus forestalling a squeal. Often the whole game is built up around this feature and just as often it does not figure at all.

In addition, some games require what is called 'corroboration', which means what it says. This is important in games where a banker or other shrewd customer is to be the victim."

I just want to say I tried to always use terms such as maybe and could have ect. so I am not making any accusations just saying what I think might have happened.

..
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: cheappower2012 on December 06, 2013, 09:10:41 PM
Hoopy

A how many people
died on the titanic when it sunk,name them ,type questions.
Lets get something clear,I am not trying to convince  you that
the tpu is real only reporting what happened during the time I have investigated the tpu.
Historically I have been here awhile so can tell you lots of things that have happen.
If you want absolute proof that the tpu is real you will never find that,
as far as I know any report was between the electronic expert and the investor .
The electronic expert was picked and paid by the investor as far as I know.
The small devices appear only in the investor video,when Jack Durban worked for SM
he copied the investor video and kept the copy for years,later in 2008 he gave the video to some
members here,and they distributed it by bit torrent.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Hoppy on December 06, 2013, 09:34:11 PM
Hoopy

A how many people
died on the titanic when it sunk,name them ,type questions.
Lets get something clear,I am not trying to convince  you that
the tpu is real only reporting what happened during the time I have investigated the tpu.
Historically I have been here awhile so can tell you lots of things that have happen.
If you want absolute proof that the tpu is real you will never find that,
as far as I know any report was between the electronic expert and the investor .
The electronic expert was picked and paid by the investor as far as I know.
The small devices appear only in the investor video,when Jack Durban worked for SM
he copied the investor video and kept the copy for years,later in 2008 he gave the video to some
members here,and they distributed it by bit torrent.

There are full public available records for those that died and were saved on the Titanic. However, the point I'm making is that from what I've read, there is no documented records of a full technical investigation made on the various TPU's and we only have various opinions about whether the big TPU was genuine or fake. Jack Durban's 'evidence' really cannot be relied upon as he cannot be ruled out as being a 'convincer' working for or with SM. This is why I respect Bruce for his hard work to investigate this whole saga by attempting to replicate the big TPU from the tit-bits of info supplied by SM. Having said this, I think his efforts are in vain.  :(

Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: cheappower2012 on December 06, 2013, 10:02:49 PM
Farmhand

If you want to conclude that the TPU is a fraud then thats ok
As I told Hoopy I'm not here to convince anyone,I have some free time
that why I'm posting,I normally don't post anything related to the tpu.
As to your questions who is Jack Durban,Jack Durban is an electronic engineer that was hired by SM,by Jack Durbans account
to create a fake device,that SM could give the investors,instead of the real one.Jack Durban was witness to the large tpu ,
also to the investors coming and going.
He copied a tape given to investors and kept it for years,later releasing it to members here.
He posted on overunity for awhile ,later he got in a gigantic fight with Hartman and other members
because of hes attitude toward there hero SM.Hes agenda was to insult SM,ridicule SM,he believed that SM might be dead ,so did this to smoke him out.
SM did respond to Jack and called him with threats,later Jack patched up relations with SM and
suggested that he distribute hes tpu through Jacks development company.SM said I can't do that the government owns the rights and that was that, shortly after that
there was the big fight , Jack left and never posted again.
the radio show is at peswiki

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Article:Jack_Durban%27s_experience_with_Steve_Marks_Toroid_Generator

read the page

download the mp3 of the radio show


hes company

http://www.vorelco.com/
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: cheappower2012 on December 06, 2013, 10:31:08 PM
Hoopy
Your a funny guy,there is a report however because of your over skeptical view you will say I don't believe it.As to Bruce_TPU making a running tpu it will never happen
SM lied about the operation of the TPU, hes information is useless,in the time I have been here I have seen at least 100 replications using SM's information none worked
did you read milehigh's analysis of Bruce_TPU work it can't work ever.
I will give you my opinion of this report,SM had this done because an investor wanted a a report by someone credible in order to sell the TPU.

the first one is related to a video where they cut the tpu in pieces

Schizinger Report

ROLAND SCHINZINGER PhD. Report on Test of Energy Device

At the request of Mr. Richard Mincherton I was present on October 28th at a test
demonstration of a device that its inventor claims will produce electric power without
 measurable energy input except as derived from the earth'’ magnetic and gravitational fields.

The test was conducted at the inventor's home. I was allowed to bring and use measuring
 instruments, but because the inventor had to leave after 11 hours, I was not able to
 conduct independent tests on my own.

Based on my observations, I can attest to the fact that the three models of the device
displayed and tested on that day did indeed light up one, two and six light bulbs (each rated at 100 watt and 120 volt) respectively. This was less then the figures quoted to me before the test, but still adequate to demonstrate that the devices function in some fashion.

The smallest unit produced 140 to 150 volts unloaded and 60 to 90 volts when lighting
one 100-watt bulb.

The mid-sized unit produced 250 volts unloaded, and was observed producing 142 Volts
at .5 Ampere after 30 minutes of lighting two bulbs.

The largest unit produced 798 Volts unloaded. With a six-bulb load the voltage dropped
to 420 Volts.

It was difficult to determine how many hours the devices may be able to operate because
the
inventor ended the demonstration after 11 hours. I could not detect any time-varying
magnetic field that might have provided an external energy input.

After the test the inventor cut the toroidally shaped device into segments
 (though not the controller box located at the center of the device). These samples
consisted of an array of circumferentially arranged coils and wires grouped around a
core made of a cork like substance.
October 29, 1995 Roland Schinzinger
RESUME ROLAND SCHINZINGER
Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering (UCI)
Professor Emeritus of Electrical Engineering (UCI)
PhD, Univ. California, Berkeley 1966
MS, “ 1954
BS, “ 1953
Westinghouse Design School / U. of Pittsburgh 1955
Apprenticeship (Technikum), Bosch Co. 1947
High School (Doitsu Gakuin, Tokyo, Abitur) 1945
Academic Appointments:
(UCI) Associate Dean 1979-83, 1985-86
(UCB)Teaching Fellow 1963-65
Robert College Istanbul Turkey:
Associate Professor 1962-63
Associate Professor 1958-62
University of California, energ. & Mgt. (Grad Program) 1991-92
California State Polytechnic University 1978-80
University of Santa Maria, Brazil 1993
University of Kariruhe, Germany-
Power and High Voltage Institute 1986
University of Manchester Inst. Of Science and Tech.-
And Imperial College, London: 1972-73
Honors:
Fellow, Institute of Electrical and Electronics Eng.,(IEEE)
Fellow, Institute for the Advancement of Engineering
Award for Contributions to Professionalism (IEEE)
1983 Centennial Medal (IEEE)
Science Faculty Fellow (Natl. Sc. Foundation) 1964-65
Sangamo Prize Fellowship (Sangamo Electric) 1953
Honor Societies HKN, TBN, Sigma xi
Listed in “Who’s Who, Am. Men & Women in Science and Engineering
Publications:
Over 70 technical papers, plus numerous reports and commentaries.
Also four books: Ethics in Engineering McGraw-Hill
Conformal Mapping P.A.Laura
Emergencies in Water Delivery Davis Pub.
Electrical Laboratory SIMA Ltd.

this one is a test at the university

This is a copy of a letter I received from Dr. Schinzinger during our
period of correspondence. It is probably around 1995 or so.
 
 
Roland Schinzinger
Ph.D.
29 Gilman St. Irvine, CA 92715-2703, Phone & FAX: (714) 786-7691
 
Dear Steven,
 
Thank you for your kind words of sympathy regarding my loss. We both share similar feelings.
 
In your letter you asked my opinion:  I think it is a miracle that your device works.
Exactly how it converts energy is elusive to both of us at this time. That does not
mean we shouldn't apply ourselves to know for sure. My offer to work with you still
stands. I understand your difficulties with the gentlemen you work for and I will not
 take your decision personally. I will be glad to talk to you and help you all I can.
 My offer to work on the project was made with the greatest respect and not as some
kind of justification to the Foremost Corporation. I told them that from what I could
 see of your units they did supply substantial amounts of both voltage and current. I
 told them I could not give any indication of the value of the discovery without
 knowing more about it. I did recommend that they invest necessary funds to continue
working on the discovery and that I was interested in working with you. That is about
all I said to them on the subject. Anything you may have heard to the contrary is not true.

 
To further our discussion, the reason you can not use small transformers within or at
 close proximity to your unit is because of the leakage fields of magnetic flux. They
induce currents into nearby circuitry and most likely cause frequency changes in the
operating point of the control unit. Remember when you inject even a small frequency
 component into sensitive frequency dependant equipment you can have a disaster. That
is exactly what I believe is occurring when you try to use a transformer close to your
units.  There will be all kinds of harmonics present within this field extending past
the radio frequency range. If I were to compare the two I would say that toroidal
 transformers would be more susceptible. This may be contrary to common thought.
Toroidal transformers have all their flux aligned with the grain of the steel used
in them. This is the reason for their reduced size as compared with E I cores. When
operated at higher flux density you can permit a smaller core. Toroids will always
saturate quickly, however, E I transformers ramp up to saturation levels slowly. If
anything, I would suggest you work with E I rather then Toroids. In either case I
believe you will find that you will have to place the inverter well outside the collector
 coils.
 
You may also leave a message for me at my office at the University of California Irvine.
 
Sincerely,
 
Roland

==============================================


Quote
Roland Schinzinger
PhD.
29 Gilman St. Irvine, CA 92715-2703, Phone & FAX: (714) 786-7691
 
December 1, 1995
 
Dear Steven,
 
Thank you for dinner the other night. I truly enjoyed the experience
and the ride home together. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
 
When you get to be my age Steven you have learned how not to ruffle feathers.
If I were in your shoes I would do exactly what we discussed.
 
I have talked to my associate about the problems as you see it involving the heat
 created by your unit when generating power. He is willing to assist us in finding
a solution and he does not feel it is an insurmountable problem.
 
The current involved no matter how slight must be a contributing factor, regardless.
 We must first consider all the working principles and decide how to go about solving
 the problem.
 
I look forward to seeing you and your unit at my laboratory around eight thirty on
Saturday morning.
 
I will have only one observer and we will be otherwise alone.
I promise you that we will give an honest evaluation of everything we observe and
will attest to what we find.
 
If you need to talk to me first you may leave a message for me at my office at
 the University of California Irvine.
 
Sincerely,
 
Roland

===================

Second test report:


Quote
Roland Schinzinger
PhD.
29 Gilman St. Irvine, CA 92715-2703, Phone & FAX: (714) 786-7691
 

Second report on Energy Device
 
At the request of Steven Mark I agreed to thoroughly test his invention of
 an energy device “toroid” at my laboratory at the UCI campus.
With me was John Sanchez who will act as an observer and Mr. Mark who will
operate his device for the tests.
 
The device is reported to develop measurable amounts of electric power beyond
any known battery or storage device. In fact the inventor claims that his device
 will create electric power indefinitely as long as it is permitted to cool at intervals.
 
Mr. Mark arrived promptly at 8:30 AM and wasted no time in permitting my examination
 of two units.
The first unit was roughly shaped like a large donut. It measured approximately 4.72”
 across with an inside diameter hole of 3” making a core width approximately 1” thick
The unit was exactly 2” tall, resembling a “Toroid”. I did not measure the weight however
 the unit was extremely light when held in the hand.
 
Mr. Mark connected the unit directly to a 100 watt 120 volt incandescent light bulb
 and caused the unit to operate. It did in fact illuminate the incandescent bulb quite
 brightly. I measured the voltage at 137 volts D.C. exactly, (ObS). See note*
I then measured the current flowing through the wires to the bulb at a steady
one-ampere, (ObS).
We noted the time at 9:06 AM.,(ObS).
We next measured the light output from the bulb with a luminescence meter and
noted that it read2.5, (ObS). Next we measured a similar incandescent bulb placed
 in a socket powered from the main 120 volt (as measured) AC power provided to the
laboratory. It measured 2.4 on the luminescence meter. This can probably be accounted
 for because the voltage as measured from the Toroid device is 137 volts and therefore
12 volts greater, generating a slight increase in light output over the incandescent
light powered by the laboratory main power supply system.
The toroid device did indeed provide the standard voltage and current necessary to
provide electric lighting for a 120-volt circuit.
The inventor then asked us for another bulb, which we provided him and he set about
 connecting the second bulb along with the first.
The second bulb was connected in parallel to the first and did indeed light just as
brightly as the first.
I measured 137 volts now across the output just as before although the load had doubled
and the impedance halved (ObS).
I measured the current flowing to the two bulbs at just less then 2-amperes, (ObS).
The inventor stated that the unit would provide the two amperes at 137 volts for several hours,
 if not indefinitely. We were cautioned that the unit while in operation would generate heat
leading to self-destruction if not shut down and permitted to cool. He claimed that after
 cooling the unit could be restarted and used again over and over.
We permitted the first unit to remain in operation and provide power for the two incandescent
bulbs while we turned our attention to the second larger unit the inventor brought with him for testing.
 
The second unit was again toroid shaped with a large hole in the center. It was approximately
15” at the outside and 13 “ inside with a core thickness of approximately 1”.  The unit was 4”
 tall. The unit was not measured in weight but could be easily lifted with one hand, (ObS).
 
The inventor started the second larger unit in operation and cautioned myself and Mr. Sanchez
 not to touch the output leads from the device as they were at lethal potential. The time was
9:39 AM.
The inventor measured the output leads and told us there was 600 volts potential at several
 amperes.
He connected the unit to five 120 volt 100 watt incandescent light bulbs as provided by myself.
 The larger second unit did indeed brightly light the five incandescent bulbs brightly. These
 bulbs were wired in series.
I measured the current through the wire connected to the 5-bulbs at 1.1 ampere, (ObS). I
measured the voltage at 614 volts D.C., (ObS).
 
The inventor then connected another five 120 volt light bulbs along with the first five
 making a total of ten 120 volt, 100 watt incandescent light bulbs lighting at equal intensity.

I measured the light output with a luminescence meter at 2.43 each light bulb, (ObS).
 I did not measure the current but calculated it to be 2 amperes at 614 volts.
I asked the inventor if this was the limit of the unit and he replied, “by no way.”
He provided a quick blow fuse rated at 50 amperes.
With two large electrical clamps and wiring, he shorted the fuse across the output
terminals of the toroid and destroyed the fuse, (ObS). There was only a slight flickering
of the ten incandescent bulbs as observed although there was a tremendous discharge of
 sparks from the output terminals of the toroid unit.
The inventor then gave me the fuse for examination. It was warm to the touch and smelled
acrid, (ObS). It was a large 240 volt AC air conditioner disconnect fuse and designed for
severe service duty, (OsS).
The inventor’s claim that the large toroid output terminals were at lethal potential was
 no longer in question.
 
The time was 11:20 AM when the inventor removed the small toroid unit from operation because
 of heat build up.
I examined the small toroid unit and it was indeed quite hot to the touch.
 
The unit had been in steady operation for exactly two hours and fourteen minutes.
  Noted: 2-hours and 14 minutes, (ObS).
 
The load of 2- amperes at 137-volts did not change through the test period.
 
I can personally state that I do not know of any battery or storage device of this
 size or weight with this capability.
 

The time was 12:47 when the inventor removed the large toroid device from operation.
It had been in constant operation for three hours and eight minutes.
Noted: 3-hours and 8 minutes, (ObS).
 
The load of 10-amperes and the voltage of 614 volts did not change throughout the test
 with the exception that the voltage did began to fluctuate at 12:03 and began a slight
 decline to 598 volts by the end of the test. This could be due to heating of the unit
while in operation.
 
I can personally state that I do not know of any battery or storage device of this
size or weight with this capability.
 
I cannot determine how many hours the toriod units could potentially operate because
 of our limited time available for testing.
I can however state with relative certainty I believe the tests show great potential
for this Toroid technology.
 
 
 
December 12, 1995                                                      Roland Schinzinger
 
*note:  (ObS)  “also observed by John Sanchez”.

Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Hoppy on December 06, 2013, 11:42:03 PM
@ Cheappower2012: I read a lot of this way back but I've not seen a copy of the actual document that bears the correct formatting, list of test equipment used and most importantly the Profs signature which is necessary for a valid document of this type. The Prof died in 2004, so I doubt if the validity of this report will ever be verified conclusively.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: cheappower2012 on December 07, 2013, 12:03:09 AM
Hoopy
As I said you will never believe anything,funny guy,are you from the UK.I suspect that a member here was SM and submitted that report a long time ago.This is why I rely on experiments not on whats
said by SM or other people.If you want absolute proof its not going to happen ever,because to do that would require a working unit.Only SM would have a report
like that and hes not going to part with that.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Hoppy on December 07, 2013, 12:23:29 AM
Hoopy
As I said you will never believe anything,funny guy,are you from the UK.I suspect that a member here was SM and submitted that report a long time ago.This is why I rely on experiments not on whats
said by SM or other people.If you want absolute proof its not going to happen ever,because to do that would require a working unit.Only SM would have a report
like that and hes not going to part with that.

Yep, I'm a Cockney. We're all a bit funny.  ;D Likewise, I don't rely on what's said by SM or other people and formulate my own opinion from experiments. Anyway, thanks for your comments and opinion on the SM saga.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Rosphere on December 07, 2013, 03:00:26 AM
Rosphere:

What's your point?  Just go ahead and state it and I will be pleased to respond.

MileHigh


One day you write that you are not, (or no longer,) an experimenter.  The next day you pen that you are an experimenter, like Bruce.  The inconsistency fell upon me like a dying tree sloth.  I was confused.


Later, you post a few videos about how to keep noise energy out of circuits and, (sorry I tire of searching for your quote,) you post that you pay no mind to noise.  Perhaps noise is where the free energy will be found?


Perhaps your expertise blinds you of the possible?


Why would the close minded join a forum called overunity when there is so much free p.orn to be had?
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: rensseak on December 07, 2013, 04:25:25 AM

You fucking asshole Magluvin,.........

MileHigh

Sorry but this is to much. The owner of the Forum has been informed.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Magluvin on December 19, 2013, 04:07:18 AM
Here is something some of you guys might want to play with.

Below is 2 diagrams, where the only difference is where you connect the ground or negative(preferred  I believe so far) of the square wave input.

The 3 coils are each 1 strand of a trifilar inductor on a ferrite core. The wire is 30awg RS. Measuring the inductance, Ive measured 1 strand at 30mh. Capacitance between the 3rd strand and the series bifi is 3.5nf.

The purpose for the 2 circuits is to show exactly one way or the other it should be connected, as one way works and the other barely has any output. So if you try it, just make the circuit one way or the other and you will see the output.

You can also just switch the input to the open ended strand to get the same differences. Could have drawn it that way also. ::)

So first, take 2 strands of the 3, and series bifi them, shown as the 2 inductors on the right. Then to a bridge and cap.

My sig gen is stand alone, no grounding. The reason I say is, Im not sure yet if actual 'grounding' affects the working of the circuit, as when I just touch my hand on the coils surface or touch wires, output diminishes. So grounding may hinder operation.  A 555 can work here Im sure.

Considering the 3 strands are equal, when I input around 10khz square 4v dc biased, I get near 50v out of the series bifi.  If 2v in, 11v out. ??? :o   Out vs in is not linear. Im thinking possibly over 200v out with 12v in. Have not tried yet. But so far it seems as the input increases, the output is magnified by some factor. Will find out soon what factor that is. ;D


What is interesting is when I disconnect and reconnect the output bifi, Im not seeing any significant loading on the input on the scope. Well, the only current flow if any is into a 3.5nf capacitance at 10khz. 10.125khz is the freq the bifi resonates at its peak.

I dont know if this is the kicks SM was talking about, but its pretty cool to see capacitve action happen in a transformer, being the primary is open ended, other than capacitive connection of the trifi windings.  I have another winding of a bit thicker wire underneath the trifi, but using it as an open ended input, output is nill. Need to try that at higher freq thinking about it, as the capacitance between a trifi strand and the under winding, is .5nf.  But the bifi wont work at that freq. But I will try.

Polarity of the sig + and - and which end of the strands to attach them to, I need to look very closely at my transformer to see what is actually what as to which end of each strand is which.

Im trying to get all that together to have a final hookup scheme and do a vid.

But I just wanted to throw this out there. I just put the thing back on the table lastnite with some thoughts I had at work about it.

Back when I did the test as Bruce suggested, I seemed to dismiss that my output was pretty decent considering 2v sq in 10v out. Doesnt add up does it. ;)

I wouldnt say there is much current flow from the input, but 10khz through a 3.5nf could possibly be an overall bit of back and forth current flow.

The output of the bifi remains a sine wave while loading the cap. I figured there would be cut tops and bottoms but no. Just a sine ever increasing till the cap is full.

Higher input voltage may be promising.  :)

Mags
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: zapnic on December 20, 2013, 04:14:44 PM
I allways belive that S.M kick was motion "washboard effect"
Morgan Jones book, Valve Amplifiers, 3rd edition, on page
262
Brian collins talks about something http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_fRKxz_UNo
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Reiyuki on December 20, 2013, 04:55:22 PM
Here is something some of you guys might want to play with.

The 3 coils are each 1 strand of a trifilar inductor on a ferrite core. The wire is 30awg RS. Measuring the inductance, Ive measured 1 strand at 30mh. Capacitance between the 3rd strand and the series bifi is 3.5nf.
What is interesting is when I disconnect and reconnect the output bifi, Im not seeing any significant loading on the input on the scope. Well, the only current flow if any is into a 3.5nf capacitance at 10khz. 10.125khz is the freq the bifi resonates at its peak.

I dont know if this is the kicks SM was talking about, but its pretty cool to see capacitve action happen in a transformer, being the primary is open ended, other than capacitive connection of the trifi windings.  I have another winding of a bit thicker wire underneath the trifi, but using it as an open ended input, output is nill. Need to try that at higher freq thinking about it, as the capacitance between a trifi strand and the under winding, is .5nf.  But the bifi wont work at that freq. But I will try.

...

Mags

  Awesome Mags, I think you and I are on the same wavelength.  I did that experiment a few days ago and got the same kind of results.  A 'Bifilar Capacitive Transformer.'  Attached is my setup.  And yes, adding caps in parallel would cut the R frequency.  I also did scope reads, and in this setup the resulting pulse is always in-phase with itself.

  As for coupling, you're probably getting some ground effects.  Even without an earth-ground, I found out my function gen and scope grounds are coupled.  Try doing ohm reading between your various (-) terminals to double-check.  Nevertheless, even with ground path this is a very interesting phenomena.

  Since we don't want to break the dipole, you could try adding 'secondaries' to that coil charging bridge-rectified-cap and see what you get.  I couldn't extract much power with AirCore but you may have more luck.

  Winding side-by-side would limit the flux, so I was also thinking about winding 2 opposed coils on the same core and wiring the same way.  Should lower the frequency and make harvesting easier.


  Best of luck in your tinkering.  I'll update as I get more neat effects as well.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Magluvin on December 20, 2013, 06:47:48 PM
  Awesome Mags, I think you and I are on the same wavelength.  I did that experiment a few days ago and got the same kind of results.  A 'Bifilar Capacitive Transformer.'  Attached is my setup.  And yes, adding caps in parallel would cut the R frequency.  I also did scope reads, and in this setup the resulting pulse is always in-phase with itself.

  As for coupling, you're probably getting some ground effects.  Even without an earth-ground, I found out my function gen and scope grounds are coupled.  Try doing ohm reading between your various (-) terminals to double-check.  Nevertheless, even with ground path this is a very interesting phenomena.

  Since we don't want to break the dipole, you could try adding 'secondaries' to that coil charging bridge-rectified-cap and see what you get.  I couldn't extract much power with AirCore but you may have more luck.

  Winding side-by-side would limit the flux, so I was also thinking about winding 2 opposed coils on the same core and wiring the same way.  Should lower the frequency and make harvesting easier.


  Best of luck in your tinkering.  I'll update as I get more neat effects as well.

Thanks. I used an Ecore from a transformer out of a pc power supply About 1.5 in.

I neglected to specify the resistance of each strand. Its 1.46ohm.  Dont remember the no. of turns, but I can calculate it tonight. 26awg ohms/foot. Also another correction is the wire used is 26awg green from RS 3 spool pack, not 30awg. 



Tinkering more, I found I had some settings wrong, menu base little tricky, but the input should be a push/pull. So its 4v p-p closer to 3.9v, and 1.95v + and -.   

Ill post pics tonight. They may not be posted till tomorrow, as I am still on moderation from arguing with MH.

The bifi side of my transformer had a capacitor lead soldered to one of the coil leads, the other end of the cap was not connected to anything and the circuit ran at 10.125khz.  The cap was there for a previous project, and while tinkering, I removed it as it was not being used, and my circuit freq changed to below 10khz, around 9.8khz.  ??? Ill resolder the cap to confirm that it caused the change.

But now the output is around 65v with the same input. 3.8vp-p  1.9 +/- square wave.  Sine wave in gives reduced output.

I am going to make an ecore using RS snap together ferrite cores and using RS wire so anyone can get into this and get the same results.

I like the freq range it is working at. I try to stay away from radio freq.

Also, in the pic shown above and below, the circuit on the left is correct for connections. We can look at the 3 inductors as if they were wound trifilar and the bottom connections of the 3 inductors are the start of the trifi winding leads, and the top leads are of the last turn of the trifi coil. ;)


Mags
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: wings on December 20, 2013, 09:01:50 PM
I allways belive that S.M kick was motion "washboard effect"
Morgan Jones book, Valve Amplifiers, 3rd edition, on page
262
Brian collins talks about something http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_fRKxz_UNo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_fRKxz_UNo)
my that was related to Einstein - De Haas effect

http://panda.unm.edu/pandaweb/demos/images/5h5010.jpg (http://panda.unm.edu/pandaweb/demos/images/5h5010.jpg)

this may explain the Otto simple experiment

http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/Overunity.com%20-%20Forum%20members/otto/attachments-at-OU/test_1.jpg (http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/Overunity.com%20-%20Forum%20members/otto/attachments-at-OU/test_1.jpg)

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=403.0;attach=6099;image (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=403.0;attach=6099;image)

succinctly: spin aligned with current flow = spin current+current electron flow

similar to theory in the prof R.L. Vallée synergie electrons and nucleus field with colinear E field and B field

Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Magluvin on December 22, 2013, 12:23:30 AM
Here is a pic of my transformer and the snap cores from radio shack that i will be using to make a larger Ecore.  The RS snap cores are about 9 bucks for 2. Ill be using 4 to make the ecore a double wide. Using Chair Fix super glue, but it doesnt say super glue on the package. But it is ultra thin. Position and hold tightly together the core pieces to have a flat mating surface for the other half of the Ecore to mate with, and apply a bit of the Chair fix to the parts mating edges to let the glue seep in. Hobby shops have thin super glue also. I think the Chair is thinner possibly. Sometimes lining up 2 pieces with glue applied already doesnt give enough time to get it straight before the glue locks up. ;)

Got some 1/6 in pvc board from a hobby shop and will cut out pieces to make a square bobbin with caps. The pvc cuts nice with a utility knife and a straight edge.

The transformer with green wire is the one I used. Im looking to go lower in freq with the new one.
The 6 leads of the green trifi were in order. Pin 1 at the top is start of strand 1, pin 2 end of strand 1, pin 3 start of strand 2, pin 4 end of strand 2, pin 5 start of strand 3 and 6 end of strand 3.  You can see that the end of strand 1 is jumped to the start of strand 2 series bifi like the circuit shows.

The new one will have 6 strands, where I can double up the leads to have just 3 separate conductor windings, or try some other things like using 2 open ended strands for input at opposite ends of each, etc. 

Mags

Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Magluvin on December 22, 2013, 12:39:03 AM
I wasnt able to find a link for chair fix, but I found the other one Ive tried and is the same Wonderlock'em Tite Chairs. Has a couple fine tip nozzels for more precise applications.

http://www.amazon.com/Wonderlokking-W2081-20-Gram-Tite-Chairs/dp/B00448KNO2/ref=sr_1_25?ie=UTF8&qid=1387668756&sr=8-25&keywords=chair+glue

Thats a price for 24 of them. Some Ace hardware has it in singles.

Mags
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on November 30, 2019, 04:54:33 AM
Happy Thanksgiving to all!


This was a very good thread. I showed on page one that a wire and a voltage source had a moving magnetic field.


I said then that if the current did not flow then only the electrons must be responsible for what I saw on that magnetic pickup so long ago.


So if current is stopped in a wire does that current not end at the end of the wire? If so, are the electrons not moving to keep that current at the tip of a wire in a circuit?


If this circuit has both AC and DC in it perhaps those electrons would skate on the wires surface? Perhaps their magnetic field could be easily seen with a pickup coil?


I'd suggest less winding of coils and more work on the kicks. They are the fuel I believe.


Cheers,


Bruce
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Toolofcortex on November 30, 2019, 05:10:39 AM
Hye, Bruce, great video on the electron ejection, thats alot of effort you put in to give us information in such an eloquant manner.

It shows your hard work, and its normal to have failures with such difficult technology, it will probably take the lives of many great researchers.

Also I think it can possibly dangerous to go about it randomly, So much negative electrons do need to get captured or else.

I complimented you but it seemed that was removed.

Is there gonna be a part 2?
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: sm0ky2 on November 30, 2019, 06:13:39 AM
The actual frequency is a factor of the potential
Via copper ‘lasing’, in the red spectrum, just outside our vision.
By using copper vapor or fine particulate, we can reach into the yellow
or even lower green.
If we then add a waveform (continuous variable potential) we can even hit purple.

1V= 17eV(^2)/2.24166028 Oz Cu


The atoms oscillate between a stable state (0)
and an energetic state (-1)
By action of losing and gaining an outer valence electron

In a closed circuit this is limited by temperature.
Only in highly cooled circuits is such possible.
But open circuits are not heated by ‘current’,
so the oscillations are detectable.






Unrelated but important:


The definition we use for current is not as we make it seem
It works as an observational description, and in many uses
we can apply our theory with no recourse.


However, when we try to make use of it, we find that it doesn’t
really exist like that.
There’s no magical flow of “electrons”, nor does your battery have
an extra 300 billion electrons stuffed inside it when you charge it up.
A better description would be to say the energy is converted into electricity
through our circuit. ‘Current’ is the result of heat from the flow of energy.
The actual electrons rarely leave their atoms, and if they do they are replenished
from the air, not the copper atoms next to it.



Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Toolofcortex on November 30, 2019, 07:11:25 AM
Where do you come up with all this sh?

You seem to know the most inocuous details about anything.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Turbo on November 30, 2019, 06:12:13 PM
the kicks. They are the fuel I believe.

Cheers,

Bruce

You are an idiot.

The kicks are not the fuel !

The kicks are the result of the conversion process !



Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Turbo on November 30, 2019, 06:12:55 PM
Where do you come up with all this sh?

You seem to know the most inocuous details about anything.

You are an even bigger idiot.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on November 30, 2019, 06:18:02 PM
Hye, Bruce, great video on the electron ejection, thats alot of effort you put in to give us information in such an eloquant manner.

It shows your hard work, and its normal to have failures with such difficult technology, it will probably take the lives of many great researchers.

Also I think it can possibly dangerous to go about it randomly, So much negative electrons do need to get captured or else.

I complimented you but it seemed that was removed.

Is there gonna be a part 2?


Thank you for the kind words.  I too noticed that Turbo removed your comment on their thread.  About what I'd expect...lol 


There is actually I think 11 other parts.  some are relevant and some not yet.  Just my thoughts I organized some time ago. I may release part 2.  I'll need to review it first.


The secret to the initial making of usable power is to figure out how to generate enough kicks caused by the electrons to generate usable electricity.  There are three secrets one must discover just to get to that starting point.


So I would strongly encourage anyone interested to take a look at my old but just released short videos on kicks and to begin to think through about it and to work on learning to generate them.  I spent ridiculous amounts of time winding coils.  That is one of the last steps and not the first. 


Turbo actually discovered the proper way to make a kick long ago.  So I guess I actually owe him a thank you for that.  The mistake most made including me and waste of time, is getting off of the kicks.   It starts with that. 


Cheers,


Bruce
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Toolofcortex on November 30, 2019, 07:10:08 PM
You are an even bigger idiot.

Yeah ok maybe I am an idiot, but what about when I asked you to just post a few designs and save time.

What happened to that simple demand that I and others made?

Honestly the video Bruce made is short and to the point, I love that. Why cant you be more like that?

You just ingored that, and now its been months and very little or no progress. Its ok not to show a working TPU, I understand that.

We are talking, we are talking, but ROFL, we cant even draw it in our minds what we should do. Oh... Hmmm, nice video Bruce, thx.

I simply want to reach the point of experimentation, or nail it down an optimized coil design.

Stop acting like we're trying to shut you down, the floor is open to you.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 01, 2019, 07:06:46 PM
Where do you come up with all this sh?

You seem to know the most inocuous details about anything.


Its’ a side effect of 30 years in this field of research.
Those “details” are what we chase, because we think we already
know the rest....


Truth is, we don’t know half of what we thought we did.




Anyways,  there is a problem with this device in that many require
some sort of faith or belief to continue their studies.


It is a simple device in theory, and principal.
And as Bruce tried to show us in the very very beginning:::


It works. Exactly like it is supposed to.
And can be tuned to any desired frequency, like a Tesla receiver.


However:
Replicating the original device may require a team and resources
that match that of the original researchers.
As the precision required to tune this to that wavelength is not going to come out of
random internet guys’ garage. (at least not likely)


they carried decimals out further than the NASA standard.
Why? because they were bored? No....
Because they wanted that level of precision.
Otherwise you miss the harmonic node and destroy the vibration rather than building it up.


We are talking about a source wave from your feet to past where the planes fly



Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 01, 2019, 07:09:56 PM
If you want to learn how to make them:


Listen to Bruce, and build his examples
Practice
Learn how it works
Then build it the size you need for your purpose.


The shape and arrangements of components are not as
important as what is happening.
Look at the history, look at the facts, look at the original theory.
And think
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 01, 2019, 07:19:55 PM
Test question:


1) Why is 5mm important the U.S. residential electricity industry?



Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Toolofcortex on December 01, 2019, 08:05:58 PM
Ok smoky stop confusing people.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 01, 2019, 09:30:01 PM
I'm not there yet but smoky was right on about the needed precision for the three frequencies.

I'll tell you what I think and give y'all a new nugget to chew on..

Did you know that it is possible to create a revolving magnetic field with these electrons?

I've done it. But way to slow. What if someone were to change Hertz to linear velocity?? And what IF someone then used mathematics to change linear velocity to angular velocity?

What if you wanted to make your angular velocity to be CLOSE to the speed of light but not 299 or the collector is destroyed so instead you tune just off of that to say 245?

Then what if you hit the needed three freqs to match the angular velocity needed to hit 245 MHz?

If each of the three freqs had a  component so that together each hit the angular velocity that gives a rotating field at 245 Mhz, you'd end up with three collector pieces each with rotation CLOSE TO the speed of light.

The math is there. And the input freqs would change with diameter due to the change of angular velocity.

So the three freqs would then have a mathematical purpose and intent to speed rotation. And not just arbitrary freqs.

But I can tell you this..
Certain freqs related to lightening have VERY STRONG magnetic fields that can be tuned into to generate a little electricity. This is where you must start by having the kicks interact with those magnetic fields.

My problem is I'm still throwing rocks instead of shooting bullets. I need SPEED!

Cheers,


Bruce
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 01, 2019, 09:30:58 PM
Sorry.. Double post from above..
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Toolofcortex on December 01, 2019, 09:55:55 PM
Interresting interresting.

This should be given to a quantum computer along with a right hand man oscillator TPU mining center.

I'm sure Turbo would like to compete and show who is the dominant knowledge holder right now.

I'm sure the quantum knows the answer.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Toolofcortex on December 01, 2019, 10:15:43 PM
Is there a detectable phenomenon when the 2 right freqs line up? Or is it all the same everywhere untill you close in on the Q of the third.

Yet for all this, we need a coil.

Also, I think whats needed here is a very thought out, precise, yet inexpensive oscillator.

With feedback on the system, whatever that may be. Number of spikes, Time , etc. We need an acquisition network at just the right price.

Oherwise we need a better grip on the calculations, or maybe we can meet half way.

Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Toolofcortex on December 02, 2019, 05:27:42 AM
Programmed animations, We need to play with programmed animations, to get a grip and isolate this step by step.

Whos good at that? This... Is a model, and I think I can see the math of a wave, where the nodes are etc...

Smoky are you good at this?

Very nice Bruce

I wanna see this thing flow, I wanna see the hoze get squeezed, as your fingers would.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 02, 2019, 07:02:17 AM
Learn to build your circuits like the old cathedrals did for music


Electronics school teaches you how to avoid and destroy it




Does certain “phenomenon” happen when 2 frequencies collide?


https://youtu.be/8xE_nT3QySo (https://youtu.be/8xE_nT3QySo)
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Toolofcortex on December 02, 2019, 06:37:14 PM
You are right, we must earn it, and understand the math, get an intuitive visual feel to it.

But animation programming is a powerul tool.

Too bad you are not good at that.

I thought you would know about such things.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Toolofcortex on December 02, 2019, 06:54:16 PM
Ok I am bored of this fakery.

Lay your coil designs on the table, all of you, Smoky included.

We will dissect them all.

Then we must model the best ones, and program it so that radiation nodes are moving in a loop, maybe we will notice something as it pertains to the math.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Toolofcortex on December 02, 2019, 07:17:33 PM
http://aboveunity.com/thread/non-inductive-experiment/

Here, in this thread, is a 3D image. While that is good this is not really a radiation node, so now I need to become expert at this soft.

Whats this software that generated that?

But maybe this soft already have "super macros" that will help greatly.

Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Raycathode on December 02, 2019, 08:47:52 PM
http://aboveunity.com/thread/non-inductive-experiment/

Here, in this thread, is a 3D image. While that is good this is not really a radiation node, so now I need to become expert at this soft.

Whats this software that generated that?

But maybe this soft already have "super macros" that will help greatly.
What do you mean an expert in soft concerning that hyperlink ? its just a coil and a PW chip and its not a very good design.
as it has losses just look at the waveform only one BEMF and its smaller than the energy going in.
If you find the Akula video of his design he has 2 try Google.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: forest on December 02, 2019, 08:52:10 PM
How about "ring twice" ?
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Toolofcortex on December 02, 2019, 08:54:49 PM
No, the 3d image with vectors and such.

computer generated graphix
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Toolofcortex on December 02, 2019, 11:12:46 PM
A bit lower, in that link.

I am guessing scilab and GNUplot but that is steep to learn I was wondering if there existed something more user friendly.

It could be cool, to parametrize a model, and turn knobs, visualie the nodes.





Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Toolofcortex on December 02, 2019, 11:40:43 PM
3dsmax

this probably can graph alot of math also being more of a drawing app

instead of a math software that we will gave to fight to get an animation.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Toolofcortex on December 03, 2019, 01:15:40 AM
Well I have my own coil design , and I aint sharing with you.

Mine looks pretty much like mannix, but you know, maybe the wire will change.

You dont share with me, I dont share with you.

Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 03, 2019, 02:16:52 AM
Quick, somebody grab the truth syrum from thread #38
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Toolofcortex on December 03, 2019, 05:13:03 AM
if you show me yours, I'll show you mine...
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 03, 2019, 06:55:16 AM
if you show me yours, I'll show you mine...


If you can obtain machined parts, and show me that you have taken appropriate safety measures
I’ll whip it out.


Its’ not about the number of kicks, its’ about the timing
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Raycathode on December 03, 2019, 09:33:03 AM


This was a very good thread. I showed on page one that wire and a voltage source had a moving magnetic field.


I said then that if the current did not flow then only the electrons must be responsible for what I saw on that magnetic pickup so long ago.


So if the current is stopped in a wire does that current not end at the end of the wire? If so, are the electrons not moving to keep that current at the tip of a wire in a circuit? |f you remove the pressure the flow will be halted (if for instance, I did this with a garden hose would it bulge out at the exit, no, of course, it wouldn't as we are moving free electrons and the holes need to be filled when it all stops remember to there is rise time

If this circuit has both AC and DC in it perhaps those electrons would skate on the wire's surface? Perhaps their magnetic field could be easily seen with a pickup coil?
yes Tesla talks about this while watching the overhead trolly buses power collectors.

I'd suggest less winding of coils and more work on the kicks. They are the fuel I believe.

Cheers,
Bruce
Raymondo
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Toolofcortex on December 03, 2019, 06:31:16 PM
That is not a proper chain of events.

Before I decide if I want to machine parts, I will first have to review your design.

Maybe its total crap and I wont do nothing with it.

However at this point, I can already tell that its crap because mine doesnt need machined parts, wich reduces cost by 1000%.

Machines parts come into play once we think about mass production, and making jigs and such.

Before that, your whole goal is to avoid that stuff, makes sense?
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Toolofcortex on December 03, 2019, 07:03:00 PM
Very unprofessionnal peasants on this site.

I dont have much hope for humanity.

I think the main question as it regards to the coils is if the 3 receiver coils are spaced out, totally overlapping, or partially overlapping.

The central emitter is pulsed as well, this should either be iron or china silver, that special alloy mentionned by Otto.

And the rest is a question of my AI that I will build.

Naturally, this is the secret that will be trademarked and sold off.

Allowing me to purchase  a nice lake property in the mountains from dear Queenie, not just permission to the land, as a half slave would, you never really "owned" that land.

Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Raycathode on December 03, 2019, 07:14:44 PM
Very unprofessionnal peasants on this site.

I dont have much hope for humanity.
Wasnt there a full moon in Aries this last week end, such is life, if one communicates with clown one becomes part of the circus  ;D ;D
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Toolofcortex on December 03, 2019, 07:33:55 PM
Its true, its the right attitude to take.

You are not entitled to free energy, that is obvious.

Only people such as Bruce_TPU are entiled to such sensitive knowledge.

Even then, it would come with very serious documents.

Simply put, nobody can have free energy, its not good for society.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: onepower on December 05, 2019, 07:42:20 PM
Quote
Simply put, nobody can have free energy, its not good for society.

We already have free energy from the Sun which warms us every time we go outside, we already have free energy from the wind and with a sail and a boat we can travel anywhere on the oceans. All energy is inherently free because it cannot be created or destroyed only transformed thus no person has ever paid for energy only the transformation. 

As well, I'm not "society" I am an individual and if people where I live have an issue with free energy then I will simply move somewhere else where it isn't a problem. In any case I win and I will not be told what I can and cannot do, within reason. In fact there is no valid reason I cannot build and use a device to transform energy for my own use and the "utilities" are nothing more than service providers. If I do not require there primitive often polluting services then they have nothing of value I need.

So you have it completely backwards and everyone already has free energy if we know how to transform it into a more practical form for ourselves.

Regards
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Toolofcortex on December 05, 2019, 09:39:55 PM
Only the most hardworking of people out here are entitled to it, those people are in their own category of "unhinged".

The rest, are considered, "society", even tho they are "unhinged".

This is evident, why do you think nobody shares coil designs. Like you, do you even have a coil design? No, you got no coil, you got nothing.

Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: onepower on December 06, 2019, 01:02:53 AM
No, anyone can have Free Energy and I have a few solar panels which receive free energy from the Sun every day. I didn't create the Sun nor did I create the energy radiating from it so by any definition it is free energy. I did pay for the solar panel/inverter to convert the energy however the return on my investment is around 8 years. So it's more of a loan rather than money down the drain paying a utility company.

The only real difference between a "free energy generator" and a solar panel is that the FE generator would work 24/7. So we already have free energy from the Sun but a FE generator would probably be cheaper and more convenient over all. So ya... I already have free energy and I don't need a "coil design", lol.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Turbo on December 06, 2019, 09:26:24 PM
You can build a 'solar' panel that does not convert 'light' but one that converts cosmic radiation.
It could be close to the same concept just responding to a different part of the spectrum by using a different dope oxide.
You could also call it cosmic light or cosmic wind or even galactic radiation.
Why these panels are not as common as the regular ones is beyond my understanding.
I like gravity batteries because they have no leakage they keep 100% of their potential energy as opposed to other solutions that slowly leak or have other inefficiency issues.

But i'm going of topic here...
Kicks yes the cosmic radiation is exactly the same as the kicks.
So how would you go about making more cosmic radiation?
You could position yourself closer to the source someone said.

But let's look a what is actually causing it....

Quote
Cosmic radiation is produced when primary photons and α particles from outside the solar system interact with components of the earth's atmosphere.

This could be a great deal of information.
You can immediately see that to make cosmic radiation (kicks) you need high speed α particles collisions.

If you study it a bit further,
Quote
High-energy cosmic rays, mainly galactic and solar protons, impinge on the Earth's atmosphere.
They produce nuclear reactions

Again we see nuclear reactions.
Which are essentially a conversion process.
Some elements radiate more then others.

Excellent comparison of onepower between the regular solar panel, and the nuclear solar TPU.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Toolofcortex on January 29, 2020, 03:56:29 AM
Hello Rei and Gentleman,

Someone did an actual experiment!  Heart be still...lol  And here I thought the "talking heads" had taken over the thread.

Now, Rei, I can tell you a few things to assist you.  First, think about WHAT the kick is and WHAT you are seeing.  You mentioned that there is "current" associated with it, but let me "over simplify" the whole thing for you.

Steven spoke of "disabling the effects of the flux so that the electrons can float free from the wire".  Now, let me say this very simply...  With NO current there is NO magnetic flux to hold the electrons to the wire.  Remember Steven said that Tao "had the secret" because he spoke of "stopping the current".  That is right, stop the current and fast switching and you have electrons free from the wire (surface).

Now, what you saw associated with these "freed from the wire" electrons is an associated magnetic field.  That is correct!  An electron moving with NO current, free from the wire has an associated magnetic field.  Steven also said this when he spoke of a nuclear blast and the associated emp or huge magnetic field.  What causes it?  It is NOT coming from current on a wire.  It is coming from the rapid acceleration of electrons.

So, what we have seen on our pick up coils or magnetic sensors is simply the magnetic field associated with speeding electrons as particles.  Now to make power you/we must do several things....
a.  We must make "stronger magnets" ie..strong kicks
b.  We must increase the velocity of the magnet ie..learn HOW to accelerate the magnets velocity.
It is NOT AC or DC or this or that, it is electrons.  Now, you will learn from experimenting that some setups work better than others.  I have been there..done that. 

Because of your experimenting, here are two more video to enjoy.  I have about thirty.  ;-)

Make kicks, make bigger kicks, learn to "combine" the kicks into really big "kicks" (magnetic field strength). 

YouTube:
(P.S. do NOT get hung up on "conclusions" you hear on a video.  They OFTEN change with further experimentation.)
https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=XDabTMKfz3I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Snf_VMyRr8k

The problem I have with your theory Bruce is that you say to produce Kicks you need standing waves.

Like you said, in your video??

But Maxwell tells us all the energy is gone in a perfectly destructive standing wave in a bifilar network or regular transmission line wire.

 What exactly are you measuring by your "kicks".

Could thos be "incomplete destruction", or your circuit is just a coil and yu are measuring EMI and passing it as a kick?

Please comment on these discrepencies.

https://overunity.com/17735/wesleys-kapanadze-and-other-fe-discussion-forum/msg542389/#new

I also notice you removed your videos.

Please dont get your ego go to you, just because I complimented you.

It was an educationnal video, nothing more. It has a certain level of inaccuracies.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Toolofcortex on January 29, 2020, 05:07:12 AM
After reviewing all of this.

I must confess that Turbo is the best TPU guru that ever was.

My apologies.

But he's a dick and acts as gatekeeper for unknown reasons.

When he could have simply postulated his story about standing waves and node sites having "kick" potential.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: r2fpl on February 10, 2020, 11:33:31 AM
There are no free kicks. Show me the kicks from the work of the magnet and the wire ?! SM talks about it. where it is ?
What kicks do is the work of a generator voltage or a live wire that is live from the mains wall.
Measurements from mV are funny.
I made 150 pieces of wires as SM says and I don't see the difference in the number of kicks.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Toolofcortex on February 10, 2020, 01:16:09 PM
On page 2, Farmhand is right..

overshoot from a long line with poor termination will result in you picking it up on a scope.

The oscilloscope has very high Impedance and will pickup noise from weak fields that’s his role.

Negative voltage indicates back and forth from a transmission line

But still, we can take the crumbs of Bruce TPU and Turbo and go farther.

I admit that they disappoint me.

However, I can now see that SM was probably saying... Look at a line charging event, there is more to this, this is perhaps how my device works.

Basically pointing us to the beginning of a long long journey as his device is much more complicated that "just that".

So if you mix up the words of SM+ the confusing words of hundreds of talking wannabee opinionated trash, well it causes alot of chaos and confusion.

Trash will pretend, trash will talk, trash will lie, trash will repeat, trash will do many things but trash will not work hard and think hard to make a circuit that isnt just a random mindless thing/copy. Now I am not talking about Kolbacit type people, who will try anything, these people semply need guidance. I am talking about TRASH.

Follow a strategy trash will not.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: r2fpl on February 10, 2020, 02:24:04 PM
At any time, the environment is responsible for what happens to the electricity. Kicks are not for free. I don't see them giving more than I give.

Jack Durban's explanations are very poor. He worked with SM for 11 years as he says and did not tell us anything significant after that the devices worked for sure. If his words mean something, SM is not the creator of this device, but only a replication. He points to Hendershot and Tesla.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Toolofcortex on February 10, 2020, 02:30:49 PM
Jack Durban was not trusted by SM and did not have deep knowledge.

He points to these two but is not sure of how.

Take everything from him witha  grain of salt.

SM had knowledge to make a patent for spherics, so he was above the average TV repairman level.

Not at the Tesla level, but not just the average guy either, as Jack Durban indicates.

He saw something and asked the right questions, showed curiosity.

This is enough to make a FE device.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Raycathode on February 10, 2020, 03:01:27 PM
Jack Durban was not trusted by SM and did not have deep knowledge.

He points to these two but is not sure of how.

Take everything from him witha  grain of salt.

SM had knowledge to make a patent for spherics, so he was above the average TV repairman level.

Not at the Tesla level, but not just the average guy either, as Jack Durban indicates.

He saw something and asked the right questions, showed curiosity.

This is enough to make a FE device.
And what might that be? it sounds like your all into SM in a big way if you're going to keep beating your self year after year over it all.
So what do you think the spark plugs were for and then there was the coil on the top and the big cap. come on fly goy put it all to geather .
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: r2fpl on February 10, 2020, 03:07:51 PM
Jack Durban was not trusted by SM and did not have deep knowledge.

He points to these two but is not sure of how.

Take everything from him witha  grain of salt.

SM had knowledge to make a patent for spherics, so he was above the average TV repairman level.

Not at the Tesla level, but not just the average guy either, as Jack Durban indicates.

He saw something and asked the right questions, showed curiosity.

This is enough to make a FE device.


Jack Durban also has something to hide.
SM first talks about the frequencies on TV that caused exposure when overlapped. I think he is wrong here. Remember that TVs were then made of flammable materials, varnish on the casing but maybe also materials that could be explosive. Apparently, several TVs exploded so they all received "explosive frequencies" maybe yes or maybe they had "TNT".

Kicks on lamps are caused by a sudden increase in cold filament (wire) and the current collects and then makes an impulse. That's all.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Raycathode on February 10, 2020, 05:25:32 PM

Jack Durban also has something to hide.
SM first talks about the frequencies on TV that caused exposure when overlapped. I think he is wrong here. Remember that TVs were then made of flammable materials, varnish on the casing but maybe also materials that could be explosive. Apparently, several TVs exploded so they all received "explosive frequencies" maybe yes or maybe they had "TNT".

Kicks on lamps are caused by a sudden increase in the cold filament (wire) and the current collects and then makes an impulse. That's all.
I don't think they use barium ferrite any longer but it's an alloy that's highly magnetic unless it's the black stuff found when mining gold.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Toolofcortex on February 10, 2020, 05:40:01 PM
This TV explosion thing is unverified.

Does not enter my mind anymore.

As the coil itself is what makes the power, and there was no TPU in old TV's.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Toolofcortex on February 21, 2020, 05:44:05 PM
Bruce thought he cold protect the sacred knowledge from me and lock your videos?

ROFL...

Should have known better Bruce.

Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Raycathode on February 21, 2020, 05:59:39 PM
Bruce thought he cold protect the sacred knowledge from me and lock your videos?

ROFL...

Should have known better Bruce.
Do they have to be kept cold then  ;D  ;D ?
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Toolofcortex on February 21, 2020, 06:05:39 PM
Do they have to be kept cold then  ;D  ;D ?

No, but when the storm hits, it will be a cold night.

As the order 66 is given. And my army moves.

And the Dark Lord is revealed to you. Shooting lightning bolts, laughing at you.

Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: onepower on February 22, 2020, 08:50:08 AM
Yes the secret tpu sauce must be kept cold, very cold and stired occasionally to prevent your jimson saddles from wearing prematurely. If they do wear then god help you and that little sucker will start pulling the nails out of your drywall like it's nobody's business. You have been warned. Unless your renovating then of course hot tpu secret sauce is fine.
Title: Re: How to make multiple Kicks
Post by: Raycathode on February 23, 2020, 03:57:45 AM
A kicking device what is it well as far as i'm concerned its just a ramp charger of a timing capacitor and a tuned dump coil.
here is a basic circuit I have played and experimented with obviously the components with respect to F and T need careful selection.

Note on the far left supply is actual the cap trigger circuit. On the far right is the cap charge circuit, The scope shot would be a saw tooth
wave with a very fast fly back.

Note this circuit is only in the bread board stage and for Educational experimentation purposes only.