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Author Topic: How to make multiple Kicks  (Read 57195 times)

Offline verpies

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Re: How to make multiple Kicks
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2013, 09:43:46 AM »
Even deeper, the answer is shockingly simple.  In the dielectric material between the capacitor plates, each molecule is like a little stressed egg shape.  There is an electric field present.  That pulls on the negative electron cloud and pushes on the positive nucleus.  That stresses and distorts the shape of the molecule so it looks like an egg instead of a sphere.  So that is a little mechanical spring.  You note that if the egg is stressed it produces its own electric field and that field is opposite to the applied field.  Hence with a high permittivity dielectric you have eggs that can really be stressed.  Also, you can't forget we are always talking AC, so the eggs are being stressed and relaxed over and over.
It is not "shockingly simple" in the manner you describe.  Rather, it is simplistic.
I was taught the same in school but I started having doubts that this simplistic explanation is correct after reading this.

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Re: How to make multiple Kicks
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2013, 09:43:46 AM »

Offline verpies

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Re: How to make multiple Kicks
« Reply #46 on: November 28, 2013, 09:56:06 AM »
Would it be true to say we can have electrons with different levels of charge ?
Did you ever consider why free charged electrons inside a wire don't all repel themselves to the surface of that wire.
Did you ever consider, that free charged electrons might not be responsible for the transport of electric energy inside a solid wire?

On the other hand, electric current outside of solid conductors (e.g. free space) is definitely the result of the movement of charge carriers, such as electrons, positrons, muons, protons and ions in general and is known collectively as particle beams, ion streams or plasma currents.  The motionless form of this is known as "static electricity".

Maybe you will find this paper about the displacement current illuminating.
When reading this paper you have to keep in mind, that the phrase "charge field" has a special unconventional meaning, which is defined in his other papers.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline wings

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Re: How to make multiple Kicks
« Reply #47 on: November 28, 2013, 01:44:59 PM »
Did you ever consider why free charged electrons inside a wire don't all repel themselves to the surface of that wire.
Did you ever consider, that free charged electrons might not be responsible for the transport of electric energy inside a solid wire?

On the other hand, electric current outside of solid conductors (e.g. free space) is definitely the result of the movement of charge carriers, such as electrons, positrons, muons, protons and ions in general and is known collectively as particle beams, ion streams or plasma currents.  The motionless form of this is known as "static electricity".

Maybe you will find this paper about the displacement current illuminating.
When reading this paper you have to keep in mind, that the phrase "charge field" has a special unconventional meaning, which is defined in his other papers.

http://amasci.com/miscon/speed.html
The speed of electric current

Since nothing visibly moves when the charge-sea flows, we cannot measure the speed of its flow by eye. Instead we do it by making some assumptions and doing a calculation. Let's say we have an electric current in normal lamp cord connected to bright light bulb. The electric current works out to be a flow of approximatly 3 inches per hour. Very slow!
Here's how I worked out that value. I know:

Bulb power: about 100 watts, about 100V at 1A
Value for electric current: I = 1 ampere
Wire diameter: D = 2/10 cm, radius R=.1cm
Mobile electrons per cc (for copper, if 1 per atom): Q = 8.5*10^+22
Charge per electron: e = 1.6*10^-19
The equation:


cm/sec =   ________I_______  = .0023 cm/sec  =  8.4 cm/hour
           Q * e * R^2 * pi

Charge or spin current or ?
http://inamori-frontier.kyushu-u.ac.jp/electronics/common/img/spin_current_en.jpg


Offline verpies

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Re: How to make multiple Kicks
« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2013, 03:01:26 PM »
Since nothing visibly moves when the charge-sea flows, we cannot measure the speed of its flow by eye. Instead we do it by making some assumptions and doing a calculation.
And that calculation is correct if we assume that the motion of electrons constitutes the electric current in the wire.
However, mathematical correctness is not indicative of conceptual correctness. 
In this case, math does not verify the assumption - rather it relies on the assumption.


Offline forest

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Re: How to make multiple Kicks
« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2013, 03:47:20 PM »
Good , I see progress in correct direction. I think nature is symmetrical. Think why only one kind of current should exists ?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How to make multiple Kicks
« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2013, 03:47:20 PM »
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Offline totoalas

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Re: How to make multiple Kicks
« Reply #50 on: November 28, 2013, 03:51:47 PM »
another technique from Eric Dollard   FLUX  CAPACITOR    -   using oridnary relay and magnet orientation to close the gap......

Offline verpies

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Re: How to make multiple Kicks
« Reply #51 on: November 28, 2013, 04:08:50 PM »
Good , I see progress in correct direction. I think nature is symmetrical.
Good, then you should have no problem accepting that space and time are also symmetrical ...like a numerator and denominator on both sides of a fraction.  This means that time is reciprocal to space (and vice versa) and has all the properties of space (including dimensionality).

Think why only one kind of current should exists ?
Apparently a current inside a wire is different than a current of an electron beam in a CRT or a moving ball that is charged by static electricity or moving charges on a spinning charged disk, see Magnus effect.

So we already have two kinds...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How to make multiple Kicks
« Reply #51 on: November 28, 2013, 04:08:50 PM »
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Offline forest

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Re: How to make multiple Kicks
« Reply #52 on: November 28, 2013, 04:45:25 PM »
Good, then you should have no problem accepting that space and time are also symmetrical ...like a numerator and denominator on both sides of a fraction.  This means that time is reciprocal to space (and vice versa) and has all the properties of space (including dimensionality).
Apparently a current inside a wire is different than a current of an electron beam in a CRT or a moving ball that is charged by static electricity or moving charges on a spinning charged disk, see Magnus effect.

So we already have two kinds...


No, I mean : the current currently is the flow of electric field and the rotational magnetic field around the conductor. The opposite should be possible, right ? I believe so and I'm sure that it's cold or spin current and it is magnetic.
 I bet some scientific groups are very deep into this research but be sure it's classified....


Offline verpies

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Re: How to make multiple Kicks
« Reply #53 on: November 28, 2013, 05:39:12 PM »
No, I mean : the current currently is the flow of electric field and the rotational magnetic field around the conductor. The opposite should be possible, right ?
When Lorentz forces of a rotating magnetic field on a charged particle are considered, then the result is that such rotating magnetic field "blows" these charged particles linearly in space like a fan.  This is even used in clean room dust fans, that ionize dust particles and then blow them with a rotating magnetic field.  All without any moving parts, as shown on the attached photo.

But all of that is irrelevant to the issue whether charged electrons are responsible for the electric current inside solid conductors.
Using a words like "flow of electric field" slips in undefined and unanalyzed concepts into the discussion.

A "field" is an abstract concept.  Namely it is a field of forces in a region of space.  It completely ignores the mechanism that causes those forces (e.g. those gyro particles of Newman or B-photons of Mathis).  Those forces are just assumed to exist and their magnitude and direction is assumed to vary according to some function in this space, often called a "vector space" or "space of force vectors".  As such, the mere notion of a "flow" of a "field of force vectors" is nonsense or abstract notion at best.  It is non-physical and non-mechanistic.

A field of sand can "flow", also other things that cause forces can "flow", but forces themselves cannot "flow".
A group of forces or a field of forces cannot "flow" either.

Offline wings

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Re: How to make multiple Kicks
« Reply #54 on: November 28, 2013, 06:01:44 PM »
When Lorentz forces of a rotating magnetic field on a charged particle are considered, then the result is that such rotating magnetic field "blows" these charged particles linearly in space like a fan.  This is even used in clean rooms dust fans, that ionize dust particles and then blow them with a rotating magnetic field.  All without any moving parts, as shown on the attached photo.

But all of that is irrelevant to the issue whether charged electrons are responsible for the electric current inside solid conductors.
Using a words like "flow of electric field" slips in undefined and unanalyzed concepts into the discussion.

A "field" is an abstract concept.  Namely it is a field of forces in a region of space.  It completely ignores the mechanism that causes those forces (e.g. those gyro particles of Newman or B-photons of Mathis).  Those forces are just assumed to exist and their magnitude and direction is assumed to vary according to some function in this space, often called a "vector space" or "space of force vectors".  As such, the mere notion of a "flow" of a "field of force vectors" is nonsense or abstract notion at best.  It is non-physical and non-mechanistic.

Things that cause forces can "flow", but forces themselves cannot "flow". A group of forces or a field of forces cannot "flow" either.

interesting Floyd Sweet's VTA Unit without magnet?
http://peswiki.com/images/e/ef/Floyd-Sweet_coil_sq_95x95.jpg
what your feeling


http://peswiki.com/index.php/Image:Floyd-Sweet_coil_sq_95x95.jpg


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How to make multiple Kicks
« Reply #54 on: November 28, 2013, 06:01:44 PM »
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Offline verpies

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Re: How to make multiple Kicks
« Reply #55 on: November 28, 2013, 06:12:18 PM »
interesting Floyd Sweet's VTA Unit without magnet?
http://peswiki.com/images/e/ef/Floyd-Sweet_coil_sq_95x95.jpg
This coil arrangement is commonly used to create a rotating magnetic field.
Such field has many uses, especially in AC motors.

There are also other arrangements that have the same effect on charged particles.
For example see this animation or the attached diagram and photo.

...but all of this is irrelevant to the discussion whether electric current inside a solid conductor is caused by moving charged electrons!

Dave45

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Re: How to make multiple Kicks
« Reply #56 on: November 28, 2013, 06:48:04 PM »


Bruce have you tried pulsing into a blocking diode.


Offline forest

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Re: How to make multiple Kicks
« Reply #57 on: November 28, 2013, 07:13:27 PM »
flow of electric field = wave  ;)  Why nobody think about simplistic explanation ? Only electro-magnetic wave  in various configurations is responsible for electricity....you can have it EM in pure space or polarised with electric longitudinal and magnetic rotational as per electric current flow (electron spin-flip being the secondary effect) or magneto-dielectric or many combinations...

Offline verpies

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Re: How to make multiple Kicks
« Reply #58 on: November 28, 2013, 07:38:50 PM »
flow of electric field = wave  ;)  Why nobody think about simplistic explanation ?
Because it is not clear:
-  is it the wave of sth or wave in sth ...and in what or of what ?
- what is the wavelength of DC ?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Dave45

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Re: How to make multiple Kicks
« Reply #59 on: November 28, 2013, 08:10:07 PM »
the electric field, the torsion field, A vector field

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How to make multiple Kicks
« Reply #59 on: November 28, 2013, 08:10:07 PM »

 

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