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# New Book

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### Author Topic: JT first attempt  (Read 13222 times)

#### lygeas

• Newbie
• Posts: 9
##### JT first attempt
« on: November 13, 2013, 05:07:16 PM »
Greetings to all members

I am a newbie to this forum and a newbie to the area of circuits. Recently I came across to the book of P. Kelly "a practical guide to free energy devices" and I was very excited so I decided to begin to experiment first with the joule thief circuit.

I have already created such a circuit that contains
-a resistance of 1k
- a 2n3906 transistor
- a torroid by ring of ferrite with a bifillar cable of 16 turns
- a led Forward Voltage: 1.9 - 2.1 V
- an input of AA 1.5 battery

The circuit operates properly and the led lights as it should. Furthermore when I connect a second led in series, the LEDs continue to light.

Is that an evidence that I have created a JT circuit and I light the LEDs with only a 1.5 AA battery?

If yes then why when I try to measure the output voltage using a 10 code capacitor (0.01nf) the voltmeter shows only 0.3v? (When the input is 1.22v)

What I am doing wrong?

Thank you for you replies

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### JT first attempt
« on: November 13, 2013, 05:07:16 PM »

#### lygeas

• Newbie
• Posts: 9
##### Re: JT first attempt
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2013, 03:05:48 PM »
Greetings to all member

......

What I am doing wrong?

Thank you for you replies

Searching in the net I found that using a diode in series with the capacitor is the proper way to measure the output volts..
Hence, now with the addition of the diode I can confirm the overunity...so I believe that I am on the right direction..

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: JT first attempt
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2013, 03:05:48 PM »

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13555
##### Re: JT first attempt
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2013, 05:23:24 PM »
Congratulations on your first JT circuit!

Voltage is not energy, though, and a voltage increase does not mean "overunity" at all. Energy is the important quantity to measure, and power is energy/time (Watts = Joules per second). The JT works by taking the small, constant DC power supplied by the battery, and chopping it up into very short pulses at higher voltage and higher instantaneous power. Your eye "integrates" these pulses so that the LEDs look like they are on constantly... but they are really flashing very rapidly, and in a good JT the LEDs are actually _off_ for most of the time.

The reason your first capacitor didn't charge up is because the energy leaks back out during the "off" parts of the JT cycle. Adding a series diode prevents this reverse leakage and the cap then will eventually charge up to the maximum voltage that your JT can produce. Again... voltage is not energy and mere voltage amplification doesn't mean OU.

Please keep on experimenting, you may stumble on something that other JT builders haven't found yet. And the JT can be very useful in a practical sense. Some people here are even using them for lighting around their homes! I use one as a flashlight myself.

#### lygeas

• Newbie
• Posts: 9
##### Re: JT first attempt
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2013, 07:55:18 PM »

The next step is to use a bigger toroid ferrite core in order to measure the effects. I will keep experimenting and if I will get to something I let you know. I am also interested in the joule ringer circuit.

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: JT first attempt
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2013, 07:55:18 PM »

#### d3x0r

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1277
##### Re: JT first attempt
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2013, 08:39:16 PM »

a lot of notes on experiments I did with different winding ratios...

http://www.overunity.com/11986/what-i-learned-in-joule-theif-101/#.UokacMS23zE

The size of your core will affect your frequency, but the output per turn will remain about the same.
It takes a longer time to build up a field in the toroid, and then inducing directly into the other winding, which causes the transistor to close, and all the magnetic flux in the toroid to stop having a current supporting it, so it falls out into the windings.

that's how I interpret it anyway.

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: JT first attempt
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2013, 08:39:16 PM »

#### lygeas

• Newbie
• Posts: 9
##### Re: JT first attempt
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2013, 09:50:02 PM »
a lot of notes on experiments I did with different winding ratios...

http://www.overunity.com/11986/what-i-learned-in-joule-theif-101/#.UokacMS23zE

The size of your core will affect your frequency, but the output per turn will remain about the same.
It takes a longer time to build up a field in the toroid, and then inducing directly into the other winding, which causes the transistor to close, and all the magnetic flux in the toroid to stop having a current supporting it, so it falls out into the windings.

that's how I interpret it anyway.

Dear d3x0r, I ve read your topic and I will try to remember the following

"Fewer windings on the coil connected to the collector increases the overall frequency, fewer windings on the coil connected to the base shortens the length of the pulse generated, but decreases the overall frequency

Frequency depends on toroid size, a larger toroid will be a lower frequency"

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13555
##### Re: JT first attempt
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2013, 11:44:43 PM »
(note: no toroid, a single AAA battery and _six_ 90-volt NE-2 neons in series.)

(note2: the components on this side of the battery comprise a wireless power receiver but are not used in this photo, it is running off the depleted AAA battery alone.)

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: JT first attempt
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2013, 11:44:43 PM »

#### lygeas

• Newbie
• Posts: 9
##### Re: JT first attempt
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2013, 11:22:13 PM »
(note: no toroid, a single AAA battery and _six_ 90-volt NE-2 neons in series.)

(note2: the components on this side of the battery comprise a wireless power receiver but are not used in this photo, it is running off the depleted AAA battery alone.)

Cool circuit Tinsel. I can see on the left of the neons something like a coil. Is that right?
. What are your measures? (mA, volts)

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13555
##### Re: JT first attempt
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2013, 12:53:26 AM »
Cool circuit Tinsel. I can see on the left of the neons something like a coil. Is that right?
. What are your measures? (mA, volts)

The inductor is a thing I salvaged from a large CRT television set chassis. It was originally wound with just one winding, around 300 turns (estimated) of fine wire, and measured 10 mH on several of my measurement systems. I wrapped a layer of cloth tape over that winding and then put on 30 turns of heavier wire over that, in two layers. Every TV I've dissected has a similar inductor in it, most of the time smaller in size and sometimes including a biasing magnet in the structure. (Many small inductors of this type use magnets in the cores as a way of "cheating" and getting more inductance in a smaller package.) Try with and without a magnet. This inductor was originally hidden inside a white plastic box housing on the TV circuit board.
The output voltage, with no load, goes over 800 volts peak. The circuit produces very short-duration spikes. The circuit works with an input voltage down to a bit less than 1 volt from the AAA battery. Using the wireless receiver, it gets more input voltage than that and the neons get really bright. It doesn't light the neons unless the diode is across the output in the orientation shown. The variable gate trimpot resistor needs to be carefully tuned, and also tweaked a bit for max brightness as the supply voltage changes. The heatsink on the 2n3055 transistor is just for show, I call it a "jason mask". Not all 2n3055s will work, for some reason; some are better at handling the HV spikes than others, I guess. I don't know what the current demand is but the battery lasts a long time.
The circuit is an ordinary basic JT circuit with the addition of the rectifier diode across the output. Here's the schematic and a scopeshot of the output spikes:

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13555
##### Re: JT first attempt
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2013, 04:13:06 AM »
By the way, I got to that point by sort of "random" experimentation with the diode and the inductor, based on what I learned from the "JT Pros" like Pirate and Jeanna and the other experimenters in the various JT threads. I learned about JTs really late in the game and my only contribution to what they've discovered is the use of the neons instead of LEDs. So please keep experimenting, trying your own ideas and variations, while also checking out what has gone before, in the different JT threads here.

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: JT first attempt
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2013, 04:13:06 AM »

#### lygeas

• Newbie
• Posts: 9
##### Re: JT first attempt
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2013, 09:54:38 PM »
@TK
Thank you for your replies and the circuit you posted. I have to admit that it is a bit complicated for me at this point of time-but I keep it in mind because its very interesting.

Trying to understand the joule ringer, I ve made another circuit that when using a capacitor I measure almost 20v and-when I measure it as open (from led to negative see attached photos) I have only 12v. I believe that the appropriate way is using the capacitor and not the second one.

I wanted with this circuit to create a high voltage JT. I will try it with a bigger torroid to see what measures I will have.

I hope to be able in near future to light a cfl lamp (instead of the led now) with a similar type of circuit.

#### d3x0r

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1277
##### Re: JT first attempt
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2013, 11:51:01 PM »
High voltage Joule thief...

This is best done adding another winding of a lot of turns... if you try and do it with the drive you'll exceed the voltage of the driving transistor.

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: JT first attempt
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2013, 11:51:01 PM »

#### lygeas

• Newbie
• Posts: 9
##### Re: JT first attempt
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2013, 08:40:04 PM »
High voltage Joule thief...

This is best done adding another winding of a lot of turns... if you try and do it with the drive you'll exceed the voltage of the driving transistor.

Dear d3x0r
Do you  mean to add another winding to the secondary coil?  if i use a 2n3055 transistor will I be ok?

Thank you

I dont understand what happened with the photos that i tried to upload.I will retry.

#### d3x0r

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1277
##### Re: JT first attempt
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2013, 01:48:02 AM »
Dear d3x0r
Do you  mean to add another winding to the secondary coil?  if i use a 2n3055 transistor will I be ok?

Thank you

I dont understand what happened with the photos that i tried to upload.I will retry.
I don't understand what's happening in the phtotos either

so on a joule theif normal, you have 2 common windings to power, 1 to the base and one to the collector/source.
to get high voltage, add another winding of a lot more turns than either prior winding.

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: JT first attempt
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2013, 01:48:02 AM »

#### lygeas

• Newbie
• Posts: 9
##### Re: JT first attempt
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2013, 06:36:18 PM »
I don't understand what's happening in the phtotos either

so on a joule theif normal, you have 2 common windings to power, 1 to the base and one to the collector/source.
to get high voltage, add another winding of a lot more turns than either prior winding.

Ok you have a point. \

I measure the output by substituting the led with a radial electrolitic capacitor 10mf 25v. This gives me almost 20v.
The 12v are when i measure from the led direct to the negative

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: JT first attempt
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2013, 06:36:18 PM »