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Author Topic: OVERUNITY DEVICE  (Read 28325 times)

Offline FatBird

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Re: OVERUNITY DEVICE
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2013, 01:58:13 AM »
Your video is so, so, so SAD.  I see numerous wires going every which way, caps,
transformers, coils of wire, meters, NOISE, flashes of light, etc.


Who knows what wire goes where!!!

Please make a CLEAN layout & shoot another video so we can see what's REALLY going on.


.



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Re: OVERUNITY DEVICE
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2013, 01:58:13 AM »

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: OVERUNITY DEVICE
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2013, 11:33:55 PM »
Well, Magnetman?

Your video with the bogus measurements and false claims is still up, and you haven't explained how you could be measuring a current in a voltmeter lead. You still seem to think that your kludge is patentable, that it is worthy of consideration for a prize or two, that someone might think it's worth ten thousand dollars. Where is your evidence?





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Offline Farmhand

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Re: OVERUNITY DEVICE
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2013, 05:54:35 PM »
Here is the deal as I see it, even if the current to the load was measured and the voltage causing the load current was measured accurately, the load current would be pulsed and could well "indicate" (by the meters) more out than in, but of course that would be an illusion anyway, I can show what "appears" to be more out than in, by using DC measurement techniques in pulsed current situations such as the output of as magnet spinner or a pulse motor or a coil discharge battery charger, however when the output is smoothed to be actually DC not PDC or pulsed direct current the efficiency shown becomes fairly accurate and is always less than 100%, I can get efficiency of over 90%, in some cases, at some powers depending on the quality of the setup, coils-diodes-mosfets,drivers ect.

The lack of a scope shot showing the output voltage and current means the video would be useless even if he did measure the output power, in some way, which he didn't.

That video is one of the many reasons my posts will become less and less until there is no more.

There is no OU. For energy to come out of a circuit it must first go in. Pure logic.

Cheers


Offline e2matrix

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Re: OVERUNITY DEVICE
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2013, 06:13:24 PM »
Well I guess some guys here can't read or didn't read the text below the video.   Firstly Tom is an old guy who has been at this device a long while.   He states below the video that he clamped AROUND the wire not onto it after the camera was away from the actual wire that he was temporarily clipped onto.   In case you haven't noticed Tom doesn't have the steadiest hands (something that often comes with age) so I admire that he is still at this and forgive an occasional mess up when clipping around a wire :)     As for why he's measuring around the voltmeter lead well that's something I might even question.   


I think Magluvin has some good suggestions to try running it looped with batteries or a big capacitor.   That will stop a lot of the whining here if it can be run that way.   If it's only consuming 8 or 9 watts a couple very small batteries should do the trick and when it's been running a week you definitely got something.   Or use a big cap or caps.   I know Tom is not trying to scam anyone.   I know he believes he has overunity and he may indeed have but that video does leave some room for improvement on showing the device.   

   Tom,  you might also want to consider magnet suspension bearings that may get you even higher RPM.   I've seen some on youtube but never quite like an idea I've got.   Same setup as most but opposing magnets at the end of your axle and on both end boards to keep it away from the end boards rather than one end resting against an end stop board.   That setup of course gets a bit more dangerous with the possibility of things flying away.   Good luck with all this.   


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: OVERUNITY DEVICE
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2013, 10:06:12 PM »
Well I guess some guys here can't read or didn't read the text below the video.   Firstly Tom is an old guy who has been at this device a long while.   He states below the video that he clamped AROUND the wire not onto it after the camera was away from the actual wire that he was temporarily clipped onto.   In case you haven't noticed Tom doesn't have the steadiest hands (something that often comes with age) so I admire that he is still at this and forgive an occasional mess up when clipping around a wire :)     As for why he's measuring around the voltmeter lead well that's something I might even question.   

I can and do always read the descriptions of YT videos (unlike people who comment on mine!). I can also see perfectly clearly in the video itself that the wire is in fact clamped ONTO, not around, the VOLTMETER wire.

Regardless of that, why is there supposed to be any current at all in this wire? No voltmeter that I know about will allow any measurable current to flow through it. If it did, it wouldn't be much good. The whole idea of a voltmeter is that it is a very high impedance device. It allows only the very smallest current to go _through_ it. This is why you can stick the probes into your wall socket and not trip your circuit breaker or blow up your fuses or your voltmeter!

Let's hear an explanation of why he is able to measure current in a voltmeter lead, when there should not be any.  Then let's hear an explanation of why the video clearly shows the clamp ON the wire not around it, and then he cites _that_ measurement (obtained after many button presses showing other values), if he later used another wire.

Or if you prefer, you can just ignore these issues and attack me instead.

Quote
I think Magluvin has some good suggestions to try running it looped with batteries or a big capacitor.   That will stop a lot of the whining here if it can be run that way.   If it's only consuming 8 or 9 watts a couple very small batteries should do the trick and when it's been running a week you definitely got something.   Or use a big cap or caps.   I know Tom is not trying to scam anyone.   I know he believes he has overunity and he may indeed have but that video does leave some room for improvement on showing the device.   

What he believes is one thing. Making claims that are unsubstantiated, and _asking for money_ based on those claims, is entirely something else.
The video shows that he cannot make appropriate measurements, or he has a voltmeter that does something nobody else's does. Or perhaps both. What it most emphatically does _not_ show is any credible evidence for his claims, nor any justification for his asking for money or offering something for sale _under false pretences_.

Quote
   Tom,  you might also want to consider magnet suspension bearings that may get you even higher RPM.   I've seen some on youtube but never quite like an idea I've got.   Same setup as most but opposing magnets at the end of your axle and on both end boards to keep it away from the end boards rather than one end resting against an end stop board.   That setup of course gets a bit more dangerous with the possibility of things flying away.   Good luck with all this.   

What you suggest as magnetic suspension bearings will not work. It has been tried many times by many people. Unless it is actively stabilized by an electronic control circuit and electromagnet, or by the use of diamagnetic materials,  one end of the axle must bear against a fixed surface. That is why you've never seen one "quite like" the idea you've got: it can't be done, and this is actually provable mathematically (Earnshaw's theorem.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_levitation

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Re: OVERUNITY DEVICE
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2013, 10:06:12 PM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: OVERUNITY DEVICE
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2013, 11:06:03 PM »
All good point's TK, and a simple question just to clarify the use of the clamp on current meters.

Am I right to say that when we zero the meter the clamp should not be on or around the wire being measured ?
To ask it more clearly. Should we zero the meter before clamping the meter around the wire so that the meter reads zero before it is clamped around the wire ?

Of course that is what I do, I zero it, then clamp it on the wire to get the reading. I never put too much faith in the accuracy of my meter even though it is a good one, firstly because it is a clamp meter and if I want an accurate low current reading I will use other means, and secondly because the DC ampere measuring function of my meter is affected
quite a bit by a draining meter battery and I use rechargeable 9 volt batteries in my meters even though non rechargeable batteries are recommended for longer life and reliability.

I've seen Tom use the very same silver box which I think contains the coil switching circuit to claim over unity several times with different spinner setups.

I built a 40 kHz boost converter and used almost all good parts, 1N5822 Schottky diodes low resistance coils of 1 mm wire, low "on" resistance mosfets, good driver chip, very clean signals and switching, thick wires, paralleled output capacitors ect. but still the efficiency is only just over 90 % at the most efficient power level. The only thing that gets warm at 60 Watts input is the coil cores, they are cheap iron powder cylinders and too small I think, anyway it is a good boost converter, picaxe controlled for voltage and duty. I use it often and it is a very useful device, I can program it to charge a battery then turn off, of course. Synchronous rectification is the next step to better efficiency if I want or need it.

Cheers










Offline TinselKoala

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Re: OVERUNITY DEVICE
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2013, 01:56:40 AM »
If you can't turn the device off, then yes, you should close the jaws completely, off the wire, then zero the meter. Then clamp the meter around the current-carrying wire you wish to measure. If you can assure that the wire is off, not carrying any current, then you can clamp the meter around the wire, zero it, then turn the equipment on so the wire carries current for your measurement. Either way, the jaws must be completely closed for the measurement to be accurate, and you are right, an inline meter will usually be more accurate than a clampon, especially in the presence of stray EM fields like come from a rotating bunch of magnets and/or a big drive coil and its electronics.

What I see in the video is someone trying to sell a device, claiming it is overunity, and citing power measurements that he says support his claim. But the "measurements" are based on consumer-grade digital multimeters and wattmeters that have unknown calibrations, and at least one of the primary instruments is clearly being used incorrectly. Instead of showing correct, proper measurements with actual power meters that really do support his claim, the claimant chooses to rationalize what he _did_ show, with excuses that I consider to be bogus. This, to me, means that proper measurements will likely _not_ support his claim... and that he knows it.

In addition... power is not energy.

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Re: OVERUNITY DEVICE
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2013, 01:56:40 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: OVERUNITY DEVICE
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2013, 02:04:01 AM »
It's a joke, he doesn't even show a bloody LOAD.  He just makes two measurements, one of which is totally ridiculous and proves that clamp-on meters get pretty scrambled near a coil switching on and off at high frequency.  He doesn't even have any concept of a load, he just makes two measurements and is comfortably numb with respect to the concept of a LOAD.  He ran away right away and has been lurking ever since.  No passing GO, no collecting of $10,000.

MileHigh

Offline synchro1

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Re: OVERUNITY DEVICE
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2013, 03:20:05 AM »
@MH,


       I believe the reward for passing go is merely $200.

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: OVERUNITY DEVICE
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2013, 04:09:28 AM »
In addition to all of the points made prior to my post, this topic was posted in the "Devices Applied For The O.U. Prize" which, I think at last count, is nearing somewhere around $20,000.  So, to me this is worse than just attempting to sell a device for ten grand with such flimsy "proof", there is the question of the prize also.

Now I have no idea if this fellow is a scammer, or actually believes that he has done it.  If the latter, then he has received a lot of good advice on how to better measure his device.  If he chooses not to do this, and does not withdraw his claim, then I guess we all will have to make up our own minds.

Bill

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Re: OVERUNITY DEVICE
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2013, 04:09:28 AM »
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Offline kooler

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Re: OVERUNITY DEVICE
« Reply #25 on: October 16, 2013, 07:16:50 AM »
I have done a very similar setup ever since I saw his first video.. I have done so many different circuits to run it with.. no over unity at all.. I even done a lot of circuits with the popular cd4047 ic's and the 555 ic's ..  lucky enough I was able to score a spool of 8 strand x 1000' off ebay for 32$ a 2 year ago to use .. at least I can use the wire for other projects.. my problem was I could get better light from hooking a 12 volt led bulb straight to battery  rather than watch it flicker from the motor itself.. the last two years of my spare time has been testing other peoples devices.. with no luck.. but on the motor side I have found that mixing a ed gray type pulse to a linear motor show some possibly.. but who's really trying .. right..
 
robbie

Offline e2matrix

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Re: OVERUNITY DEVICE
« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2013, 07:38:51 PM »
I can and do always read the descriptions of YT videos (unlike people who comment on mine!). I can also see perfectly clearly in the video itself that the wire is in fact clamped ONTO, not around, the VOLTMETER wire.

Regardless of that, why is there supposed to be any current at all in this wire? No voltmeter that I know about will allow any measurable current to flow through it. If it did, it wouldn't be much good. The whole idea of a voltmeter is that it is a very high impedance device. It allows only the very smallest current to go _through_ it. This is why you can stick the probes into your wall socket and not trip your circuit breaker or blow up your fuses or your voltmeter!

Let's hear an explanation of why he is able to measure current in a voltmeter lead, when there should not be any.  Then let's hear an explanation of why the video clearly shows the clamp ON the wire not around it, and then he cites _that_ measurement (obtained after many button presses showing other values), if he later used another wire.

Or if you prefer, you can just ignore these issues and attack me instead.

What he believes is one thing. Making claims that are unsubstantiated, and _asking for money_ based on those claims, is entirely something else.
The video shows that he cannot make appropriate measurements, or he has a voltmeter that does something nobody else's does. Or perhaps both. What it most emphatically does _not_ show is any credible evidence for his claims, nor any justification for his asking for money or offering something for sale _under false pretences_.

What you suggest as magnetic suspension bearings will not work. It has been tried many times by many people. Unless it is actively stabilized by an electronic control circuit and electromagnet, or by the use of diamagnetic materials,  one end of the axle must bear against a fixed surface. That is why you've never seen one "quite like" the idea you've got: it can't be done, and this is actually provable mathematically (Earnshaw's theorem.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_levitation
Tom states:  "PLEASE NOTE: When I was taking the DC ampmeter reading the negative wire was not pinched in the meters clamps but centered in the middle of the clamp jaws for an accurate reading. I did this test many times and each time the result was the same."   right below the video.   Initially YES you can see he has it pinched but then the video pans down to only the meter readout and you can't see how it is clamped and from the way he appears to be fiddling with it I assume he got the wire in the middle after he panned down as that is what he has stated.   It appeared from all the comments on this that no one had read his statement below the video.   But I agree that unless we have missed what wire he is clamped around that it makes no sense he is getting any readable current of a volt meter wire in the voltage setting. 
I know he believes he has something and thinks it is valid.   He's asking for a very reasonable amount for something HE believes is worth a lot more.   Whether or not he has something really overunity IMO is not a good reason to attack him.   I suggest we help him see where his mistakes might be if he has them.   For sure clamping around the VOM lead is not correct.   In the past I saw Tom go out and buy some much more expensive RMS meters because it was pointed out to him that he was not getting correct readings with his meter he was using.  Over the years I've seen him post things similar to this device and then I believe rather than get into arguments with a bunch of people that seem bent on attacking him rather than helping he just goes away and tries to improve on things.   
In regards to magnetic bearings I'm not sure if you understand what I'm proposing but thanks for the info.   I do not see why my idea would not work but I think it might be hard to stabalize or would at least need some non-metallic rings around the axle (not touching) to prevent things from flying away if it got into a wobble.   It is basically like the setups I've seen that use 3 magnets near each end with one magnet near each end of the axle and then another magnet at the very end of each tip and one against the upright board (or plastic) of the opposite polarity and this setup on each end.   Spaced correctly it would seem there would be a little push from each end keeping the axle centered.   No?   I may need to try this to see what happens as I've certainly got enough magnets to try it with.    Given this description what do you see happening?


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: OVERUNITY DEVICE
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2013, 09:30:48 PM »
Tom states:  "PLEASE NOTE: When I was taking the DC ampmeter reading the negative wire was not pinched in the meters clamps but centered in the middle of the clamp jaws for an accurate reading. I did this test many times and each time the result was the same."   right below the video.   Initially YES you can see he has it pinched but then the video pans down to only the meter readout and you can't see how it is clamped and from the way he appears to be fiddling with it I assume he got the wire in the middle after he panned down as that is what he has stated.   It appeared from all the comments on this that no one had read his statement below the video.   But I agree that unless we have missed what wire he is clamped around that it makes no sense he is getting any readable current of a volt meter wire in the voltage setting. 
OK, if you want to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he managed to move the clamp just after panning down to see the readings.. fine. He is still punching the reset button until he gets a number he likes, and he is still measuring the voltmeter lead, there are no other wires in the area that he could have moved the meter to. And since he says he gets the same reading whenever he measures it... this indicates to me that he is not measuring properly at all, and he repeats the errors routinely and accepts the data as real.
Quote
I know he believes he has something and thinks it is valid.   He's asking for a very reasonable amount for something HE believes is worth a lot more.   Whether or not he has something really overunity IMO is not a good reason to attack him.   I suggest we help him see where his mistakes might be if he has them.   For sure clamping around the VOM lead is not correct.   In the past I saw Tom go out and buy some much more expensive RMS meters because it was pointed out to him that he was not getting correct readings with his meter he was using.
And in this video he shows that he still cannot, or more likely will not, use them properly. You seem to be confused over why I am challenging him (not attacking, by the way). I don't care what he believes, he can believe that his device runs on white smoke for all I care. When he tries to sell his beliefs as fact, that is when I begin to care. He clearly doesn't want help, however much he needs it, or he would be here, engaging with his critics and trying what they suggest. Has he even read the manuals for his meters? They will tell him that he can't measure current in a voltmeter lead! If he can't take the advice from the manuals of his equipment, why should he be expected to take advice from anonymous forum posters?

Quote
Over the years I've seen him post things similar to this device and then I believe rather than get into arguments with a bunch of people that seem bent on attacking him rather than helping he just goes away and tries to improve on things.
Improve on "things" like learning how to make better measurements, or on things like making his device produce numbers he likes?

 
Quote
In regards to magnetic bearings I'm not sure if you understand what I'm proposing but thanks for the info.   I do not see why my idea would not work but I think it might be hard to stabalize or would at least need some non-metallic rings around the axle (not touching) to prevent things from flying away if it got into a wobble.   It is basically like the setups I've seen that use 3 magnets near each end with one magnet near each end of the axle and then another magnet at the very end of each tip and one against the upright board (or plastic) of the opposite polarity and this setup on each end.   Spaced correctly it would seem there would be a little push from each end keeping the axle centered.   No?   I may need to try this to see what happens as I've certainly got enough magnets to try it with.    Given this description what do you see happening?

I think I do understand what you mean, and what will happen is that the axle cannot be centered stably between the end magnets, whether they are in repulsion or attraction or combinations. One end of the axle has to bear against a rigid support. Even Steorn finally realized this, and used a micrometer head at the top of their Orbo axles. This allowed them to adjust their magnetic bearings for best effect. Please do try it with your magnets, and report your results. I'm genuinely interested in what you come up with.

You may find these videos interesting:
The HV electrostatic, passively magnetically suspended motor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVfw-TeJ9r4

The active control-looped magnetic suspension system:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkiGTWODERo

Offline magnetman12003

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Re: OVERUNITY DEVICE
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2013, 10:46:43 PM »
Here is the circuit.  Its my hope someone out there replicates it and gets back with me before making  remarks.  Switch S1 should be left open to check for overunity across  the 5 waqtt led lamp.
 http://web.mail.comcast.net/service/home/~/?auth=co&loc=en_US&id=947024&part=1
Closing S1 may or may not produce a self runner with 28 volts to the input.
Tom
 

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Offline magnetman12003

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Re: OVERUNITY DEVICE
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2013, 11:00:02 PM »
It's a joke, he doesn't even show a bloody LOAD.  He just makes two measurements, one of which is totally ridiculous and proves that clamp-on meters get pretty scrambled near a coil switching on and off at high frequency.  He doesn't even have any concept of a load, he just makes two measurements and is comfortably numb with respect to the concept of a LOAD.  He ran away right away and has been lurking ever since.  No passing GO, no collecting of $10,000.

MileHigh 
 Just show me how YOU can ""FULLY"" light up a 5 watt 120 volt Led lamp using 24 volts dc then have 28 volts  dc across the  same lamp with higher amps than the input has ??????  THE LAMP IS THE LOAD!!!

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Re: OVERUNITY DEVICE
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2013, 11:00:02 PM »

 

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