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Author Topic: Overunity (what is it?)  (Read 36438 times)

Offline tinman

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Overunity (what is it?)
« on: September 23, 2013, 05:40:00 PM »
This is the split off forum,that MH said we should have.
This forum is to discus our thoughts as to what overunity is,without the big head master and his big stick. If your going to make a forum for others to voice there opinion,then thats exactly what should happen. So here you will be able to put forth your thoughts,without the fear of ending up with a strike in my book-as i dont have a book.

So befor we go trying to solve the riddle of achieving overunity,it would help if we actualy knew what it was.Without knowing what it is,is like going for your motor vehicle licence without knowing what a motor vehicle is-preaty stupid !right?!

The general consensus seems to indicate that overunity is a device or mechanism,that puts out more energy than it consumes. But this seems impossible if we look at the laws of physics as we know it.That one law stands in the way-!energy cannot be created.! So for a device to put out more energy than is consumed-it would have to be creating energy.

Free energy devices already exist,but these do not create energy.
Renewable,or as i call it(recycled energy)devices already exist-but these also do not create energy.
But as of yet-no overunity devices exist-so it is said.But this comment is hard to make,when we dont know what overunity is.

So lets try and decide as a group,what overunity is,or even if it can exist.
What is an example of an overunity device that exist today?.
Some say that the planet's dont slow down-when in actual fact,every planet that has a moon,is slowing down. But the moon is speeding up at the same rate-so we get our equal and opposite reaction. Maybe we should call it an exotic energy machine?

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Overunity (what is it?)
« on: September 23, 2013, 05:40:00 PM »

Offline TechStuf

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2013, 08:21:55 PM »
The vast majority of people on our planet, FE researchers included, wouldn't recognize OU if it bit them.  This is because the more real something becomes in our increasingly unreal world, the more it is distrusted, feared, and ignored.

This planet LOVES the lie.

How does a wind powered vehicle move down wind at 4 times the speed of the tail wind that got it started?  Once it moves faster than it's own tail wind, what really makes it go?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CcgmpBGSCI

Joe Griggs's Hydrosonic Pump has been proven to produce much more energy as heat than it takes in as electricity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh_-DUKQ4Uw&list=PL5733824E8EC41CDA

And notice yet again, the game of "terminology twister" perpetrated around this device:

http://www.exposingthetruth.co/over-unity-led-light-a-reality/

How many "experts" have said, "I'll believe it when the device cools down, rather than heats up".  This device does just that, yet we are to believe that it simply absorbs heat from it's environment at such a rate that it cools down. LOL.  Since when is an LED an efficient absorber of ambient heat?  Look at the design.  If it is being driven by ambient heat, where is the simple test of operating it in a deep freeze for confirmation?

Here's another interesting experiment....(fwiw).....the mere reality that so much BS chokes the traffic on nearly every walk of life these days, will prevent the truth from being absorbed.  Even from all the 'ambient heat' given off from all the crap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU5JvO1opkk

True or fake?

There are MANY examples of "overunity", but the perpetual cries of "fake" and "it gets it's energy from known sources" is usually enough to flip the increasingly sensitive "off switch" in the minds of the many minions.

We must face the fact that our world is corrupted and co-opted by an insidious cabal that is so rapacious, that it only knows how to take.  Even it's acts of giving are for the goal of taking.  Knowing not how to truly give, it views acts of true generosity as contemptible and wasteful, stupidity.  This is why the world turns increasingly away from Life, toward the easier to understand, and sub consciously self deserving state, of death.

I guarantee you that should an overbalanced wheel be shown and proven, the vast majority of the "holier than thou" blowhards of science, rather than backpedal, and admit their stupidity, would simply respond with assertions of energy conversion.
"Oh yes, it is simply converting gravity into rotary motion"....blah....blah....

What seems simple to those of us closest to the research, is alien to them.  But once, much like a simple, 3 digit combination lock, the combination is shown, what before seemed like way too much work for so little a chance at gain.....

Becomes embarrassingly simple.

Too simple for the arrogant ones to handle.  As they haven't the character required to man up and admit to the damage caused by their former condition.
The real reason that we cling to the hope of free energy, despite the avalanche of crap involved, is that we instinctively, at our core, realize the Truth of it.  Yet how many will look hard enough to see the Source of it.....

ALL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHxUrG67QC8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TokXogAzHKU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJyUtbn0O5Y
 
From what I have witnessed in my short sojourn on this planet, there is plenty of evidence to support one's observations that there is MUCH more to our reality than we currently realize.  And free energy plays a relatively small, subsidiary role to the greater  realization of Who have gone before us, what they have done, are doing, and will do with their domain....

 
Us included.

 
 
TS

 
P.S.  What's more important?  Free energy or time travel?  Given that the day in which we live was foretold with great accuracy thousands of years ago....perhaps one's focus should not be on "free energy" at this critical juncture.  But instead, one's efforts should best be exerted in aligning one's self with those they see as best capable of winning an age old power struggle.....whose future culmination is now arriving, according to schedule.  Free energy is just one of the many rewards awaiting the one who chooses wisely, Whom it is that he will serve. 

 

Offline forest

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2013, 08:36:49 PM »
Yes, greed and interest rule this world. Free energy is simple and simply ordinary people are finding it, yet they have to keep it in silence because.... most are ready to steal the concept for profit...
like here [size=78%]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiZ6dBpjz44[/size]

I didn't wanted to offend inventors, they are really great people  thinking out of the box, I simply poited that even uneducated man can invent somethign extraordinary when is exatraordinary patient!

Offline webby1

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2013, 09:33:11 PM »
Tinman,

This is not the first time someone has tried to get a consensus on OU.

My take is more the FE style of thing,, if I can get more out than I have to put in,, let nature do the rest :)

Offline LibreEnergia

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2013, 01:23:35 AM »
The vast majority of people on our planet, FE researchers included, wouldn't recognize OU if it bit them.  This is because the more real something becomes in our increasingly unreal world, the more it is distrusted, feared, and ignored.

This planet LOVES the lie.

How does a wind powered vehicle move down wind at 4 times the speed of the tail wind that got it started?  Once it moves faster than it's own tail wind, what really makes it go?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CcgmpBGSCI


No overunity 'lie' here. Just some engineering. Coupling the rotating propeller to the wheels via a gear train enables this to work.  Compare this with a fixed sail on a land yacht. This cannot sail continuously directly down wind faster than the wind. It can only do so at an angle to the wind determined by the over all lift to drag ratio. 


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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2013, 01:23:35 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2013, 01:27:15 AM »
I will start by repeating my basic point.

You have renewable energy, like hyrdo dams and solar cells, the root source for almost all renewable energy is the Sun.  Then you have geothermal energy, and energy extracted from the rotating Earth like tidal energy and so on.  Then the "big story" on the Universe is the idea that all of the suns will eventually burn out like the hot coals in a smoldering fireplace.  So way out in the future the Universe will be cold and dark and filled with dead remnants of the formerly burning suns.  Certainly renewable energy is on an exponential increase so I think that bodes well for the future.

And then you have alleged free energy.  More measured power out than in or energy just seemingly magically appearing from nothingness.  That's Sterling's "energy from the environment" that nobody can define or measure or describe.

This second one is the one that interests me.  You look at the parade of people and their stories that flow through Sterling's PESN web site.  Most of them are not credible, and some of them are a complete joke.  Certainly, a certain percentage of them are pure criminals just throwing their story out there because they know that there are deluded people that will get excited and part with their cash.  I like to debate and challenge the high-profile ones.  Sometimes they are so weak technically that you can make mincemeat out of them.  Sometimes if you have a decent technical background it's shocking what you see and how corrupt it is.  For example, John Rohner was the "designer" of the spark plug controller for his version of the "PAPP engine" and always boasted about his technical knowledge and background.  If that's true, how come on a Facebook debate it became clear that the man did not even understand how a spark plug circuit works?  It just makes no sense and the only logical and reasonable explanation is that he is a really lousy con artist.  Hence the FBI raid and the ongoing fake boasting.

I have never seen anything that is credible as a true free energy device up to now.  Most clips that try to be "serious" I figure are some deluded people and mostly budding con artists.  How hard is it to use some multimeters and a scope and make some serious measurements?  It's not that hard really, but you just never see it done.  It's almost insane after a while.

So right now it's a bit of fun to debate but I hope another Steorn comes around and the debate gets involved.  I don't know, perhaps the closest high-profile proposition is/was Wayne and HydroEnergy Revolution.  He seems like a nice guy, and he is as adept at the art of spin and delay as anybody.  But one more time, you are looking at a case where if he really had something then it would be a no-brainer to make a convincing demo with real unambiguous measurements - but he will not do it.  The realization that comes to me, perhaps not to others, is that Wayne is just a con artist.  I don't know if he literally has a good chunk of a small town duped, and real engineers are working with him, or if he and a dozen are conspiring with him or what.  What I do know is that you simply can't set up a big box filled with floats and valves and bellows in the middle of a parking lot and have it output continuous power from "nowhere" for weeks on end.  It's simply impossible and Wayne has never shown even one tiny shred of evidence that he has something.  Also, he speaks the language of a con artist if you open up your mind and are prepared to really be open to all of the possibilities.

So will some device ever tap into some "clockwork" or "vacuum?"  Right now it doesn't look like it.  However, like I said above the glass is half-full and getting fuller as time goes on. There is so much solar power raining down on us that it will indeed provide for all of our needs.  We are just starting on the journey and the world is indeed going to change a fair amount over the next 30 years in terms of energy consumption and how we produce it and store it and so on.

The future is bright!

MileHigh

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2013, 01:48:26 AM »
Just for fun, I will mention a budding entrepreneur:

Daniel Nunez:

http://www.youtube.com/user/DanielNunezMind

I have watched a dozen of his clips, he doesn't know what he is talking about when it comes to his coils coils coils.  To be harsh, he doesn't even know how a coil works and he has no clue what he is doing when it comes to making measurements.  It's so bad it's painful to watch.  Honestly hard to tell if he is just deluded and making money or if he is a clever con artist projecting the right image to make it seem like he is sincere and "just learning like everybody as he goes along his journey" so that he can make money.

Many people on the other had, think that he is great and at the "leading edge" and he is part of "the wave."  Some of them order, simple as that.

YouTube is a nice way to get free advertizing and he is certainly smart enough to monetize this incredible free sales channel.

MileHigh

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2013, 01:48:26 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2013, 02:05:31 AM »
Final thoughts to bring it back to the real topic.

When someone wants to demonstrate an alleged free energy device, there is no real reason to get into an involved debate about "what is it" that this person is demonstrating.

It's just power out vs. power in or power from nothingness.  Or if you want, energy out vs. energy in or energy from nothingness.  That's it.  We should all be able to agree on how to analyze someone's proposition to to see if they really have something or not.  In other words, we should all be able to agree on how to implement a credible and verifiable test setup.  There is no need at all to self-loop, but you are welcome to do that if you want to.

This idea is as clear as black and white in my mind.  "Show me the money" - show us that you have something that does what you say it does.

Once you see the claimed input and output of the claimed device, both the inventor and the audience should quickly arrive at a common and mutually agreed upon measurement process that makes sense.  It really should be that easy.

Let's look at Wayne again:  Take your big box and have it output mechanical power via a rotary shaft.  Connect that shaft output to a generator and connect the generator output to a big resistive load bank.  Then run that sucker for three months in the middle of public space and have volunteers to monitor it.  Just feel the heat from the load bank and have a PC that "strip chart records" the voltage and current for the load bank.  The test is plain as day to me, it's obvious.  Or something comparable to that.  That's the real test for a magic box that outputs free mechanical energy.

MileHigh

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2013, 02:43:19 AM »
What the heck, a quasi clip deconstruction:

Daniel's feature clip and his comments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3KBu4T6uoE

Quote
Here are some characteristics of real accretion disk energy at work. This is a small scale demonstration; but the things we are viewing have extremely large applications. In the near future, we will have the ability to test these units under vacuum conditions using different plasma forming gases, in order to visualize the electromagnetic forces being generated here. There is still much to learn about these technologies, and we are looking forward to sharing our findings with you. Please support the cause; as we are independently funded researchers interested in helping the advancement of sustainability and planetary wellness. This task is not beyond us, as long as we all contribute and spread the word. Thank you all for your following! Together, we can make clean energy solutions a reality today!

This is all nonsense.  His just demonstrating the basic vanilla properties of coils and how they generate a magnetic field.

For example, what about all those clips where they put a magnet over a piece of tinfoil and then put it on top of a "Rodin" coil and you hear music, the setup is acting like an audio loudspeaker?  There is a simple basic explanation for that; a current carrying wire in a magnetic field will experience a force on it.  This is a basic fact about magnetism.  The individual wires in the coil will vibrate to the music and some of that vibration touches the tin foil "whizzer cone."  That's it, it's as simple as that.

The full explanation for what is going on in this feature clip, inside-out and upside down, can be found out by just understanding the basics of magnetism.  For sure Daniel Nunez does not understand the basics of magnetism, whether he is deluded or a crafty con artist.

If you were determined, this guy's clips (I'm a big fan) will explain everything about what is going on in the Nunez feature clip as of Sept 23, 2013:

http://www.youtube.com/user/lasseviren1/videos

MileHigh

P.S.:

Quote
This is a small scale demonstration; but the things we are viewing have extremely large applications.

No kidding.  Right now as we speak the entire electrical grid across the entire world is powered by big coils.  Sorry, Daniel, somebody beat you to it!  lol  What's that guy's name?  Niagara Falls?  Feel the 60 Hz hum in your chest when you are parked across the Niagara gorge and facing the power station.  I was about 13 years old and I still remember the hum.  2,400 megawatts, nothing to sneeze at.


Offline tinman

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2013, 03:28:10 AM »
Tinman,

This is not the first time someone has tried to get a consensus on OU.

My take is more the FE style of thing,, if I can get more out than I have to put in,, let nature do the rest :)
Yes,i know.
But was there ever an answer at the end of the discussion?.

I posted this same question on both my forum,and at OUR. The answer in general at the end was-an OU device would only remain an OU device,until the input power source was known and understood. The device would then no longer be considered OU.

A good example using this definition,would require going back in time. For this we can look at the solar cell. Lets go back 100 years in time for this thought experiment. We have a 200 watt solar pannel,a 200 amp hour 12 volt battery(rechargable),and a 10 watt electric motor-also 12 volt's.
We now have the makings of a perpetual motion machine. We hook our 10 watt motor and 200 watt solar pannel to our 200 amp hour 12 volt battery,and the motor spins forever. As long as the sun comes up every day-the motor keeps on going,24 hours a day,for years on end.
Now,100 years ago,this would have seemd fantastic,and something out of the ordinary. But today,this would be just a !so what! device,because we know the power source,and exactly how it works.

This outcome will be the same for anyone that make's an !OU! machine,but at the rate that technological breakthroughs are being made today,your fantastic OU machine would only be fantastic for maybe a year(if that).Once the source of that extra power is found and understood,you will just have another solar pannel situation.

Most free energy devices seem to work much like a check valve,in that they allow for flow in only one direction. They seem to take random flow direction's,and direct it in one direction-organisation from kaos.

The solar pannel takes all sorts of light from the spectrum,filters out what it can use,and then directs the flow of light through fancy materials to produce electricity.
Hydro electric power stations work the same way. The device(as a whole) takes random streems of water created from rain fall,and converts it all to flow in one direction through the turbine.
Even the humble permanent magnet is made by aligning the random magnetic domains within the material.We then have a device that requires no power input,but can provide a force for 100's of years.

All the above work by creating order from kaos,but as of yet,no one has worked out how to create usful energy from that order which exist with the permanent magnet???. Could it be that we have to take this order of the permanent magnet ,and create kaos in order to get our OU machine?.

Maybe we are just looking at things all wrong-like has been mentioned here already,We seem to be very easly lead astray,right from the word go-in school.Simple thing's like what they teach you about our orbit around the sun-what bollocks is this? Our actual motion through space is nothing like they teach you at school.
Watch in full screen mode,for a ride of reality.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4V-ooITrws

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2013, 03:28:10 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2013, 04:43:59 AM »
@TechStuf
I believe that the cavitational heater has merrit,i seen such events when racing f3 tunnel boats.If you trimed your motor to high,the prop would cavitate,and melt the tips right off the high carbon S/S props.This takes extreem temperatures to do that.The other thing to knote,is that the load is actualy taken of the motor when cavitation occures.
So the load go's right down,and the temperatures go way up.Seems to be totaly opposite to what should happen ,when heating water or other materials.

Offline TechStuf

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2013, 06:23:28 AM »
Same with the Hydrosonic pump.  There is a video on youtube showing how the cavitation has been maximized.  A slow motion video showing what occurs in the cavities on the rotor.

I doubt that even Griggs's device scratches the surface regarding the efficiencies possible in this area.

 
Regards,

 
TS

Offline tinman

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2013, 08:08:12 AM »
Same with the Hydrosonic pump.  There is a video on youtube showing how the cavitation has been maximized.  A slow motion video showing what occurs in the cavities on the rotor.

I doubt that even Griggs's device scratches the surface regarding the efficiencies possible in this area.

 
Regards,

 
TS
Yes i watch the slo motion video. That was preaty cool seeing the water contained within each cavity,boiling away.
Things like this may lead to what we call OU event's.Maybe the extra energy is contained within the water itself? It is said that a glass of water containes enough energy to power a city for a day.It is 2/3s hydrogen,so what if we could split each hydrogen atom contained within that glass of water?.This may be a different type of hydrogen atom than that used in bomb's-i dont know,im no chemist.

TechStuf
If we could get hold of one of those efficien drum design's,then this would be quite a simple machine to throw together.

Offline webby1

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2013, 01:27:45 PM »
Yes,i know.
But was there ever an answer at the end of the discussion?.

I posted this same question on both my forum,and at OUR. The answer in general at the end was-an OU device would only remain an OU device,until the input power source was known and understood. The device would then no longer be considered OU.

Not that I am aware of.

As you have stated, when it is done it is for only a short time,, then someone identifies the causality and the mystery is solved.

Energy is a tool to describe, measure and compare *anything* and as such it can not be created nor destroyed,, this unique measuring stick we call energy.  When something comes along and "appears" to be OU all that means is that "we" do not see all of the inputs to the system and that is what this tool tells us,, it does not tell us it can not be done,, it tells us that we are missing something.

As a tool then, it does not need to be perfect, it only needs to provide a reasonable approximation of events.  It does not "predict" any outcome by itself, the user must ask the question with all of the understood parts in place.

I interchange between a 14mm and a 9\16 socket all the time,, a 1\2 and a 13,, not perfect but they do a reasonable job,, I can not ask the great theory of energy what a baseball is going to do just by presenting the baseball to the theory,,  the theory can not even tell me that it is a baseball because the theory is a tool to use to find what is hopefully a common answer.

Offline tinman

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2013, 03:17:14 PM »
Not that I am aware of.

As you have stated, when it is done it is for only a short time,, then someone identifies the causality and the mystery is solved.

Energy is a tool to describe, measure and compare *anything* and as such it can not be created nor destroyed,, this unique measuring stick we call energy.  When something comes along and "appears" to be OU all that means is that "we" do not see all of the inputs to the system and that is what this tool tells us,, it does not tell us it can not be done,, it tells us that we are missing something.

As a tool then, it does not need to be perfect, it only needs to provide a reasonable approximation of events.  It does not "predict" any outcome by itself, the user must ask the question with all of the understood parts in place.

I interchange between a 14mm and a 9\16 socket all the time,, a 1\2 and a 13,, not perfect but they do a reasonable job,, I can not ask the great theory of energy what a baseball is going to do just by presenting the baseball to the theory,,  the theory can not even tell me that it is a baseball because the theory is a tool to use to find what is hopefully a common answer.
Well Webby,that would have to be one of the best answers i have ever read.It also lines up with the conclusions on the other forums i posted this subject on.
The mass so far seem to agree,that OU is realy an unknow power/energy source at work.
One has to wonder then,who actualy decided that an OU device was a device that produced more power than it consumed?.
Maybe if we get enough people here agreeing with this definition of overunity,along with the many others from the other two forums that came to the same conclusion-we could rewrite the definition of overunity?.

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Re: Overunity (what is it?)
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2013, 03:17:14 PM »

 

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