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New Battery systems => Other new battery systems => Topic started by: hartiberlin on August 21, 2013, 06:11:46 AM
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How to convert a lead acid car battery to an ALUM Battery Part 1 to 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWbHcWxd4Xc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBFMSQUvYNI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI5zpw7eSNk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hogeXscA7U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41u1n7HisDg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fBVVDTg_Tw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow5vvVi4cWU
These are my experiments to convert a new never used
lead battery to an ALUM electrolyte and see how the battery works.
Enjoy !
Regards, Stefan.
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yes mr administrator.aluminum sulfate releases a certain amount of sulfuric acid in solution.you can even make a leadacid system with epsom salt,magnesium sulfate,but the voltage comes down due to lower acidity.
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New battery load tests from today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYOcua4_6iM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OeQAL9qPko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z54xOa4MQd8
If you have any tips how to effectively test the battery please let me know.
In this moment I don´t have many measurement devices, so I need to
buy a bit more equipment to test this more throughfully...
I still need a 12 Volts power meter and a battery power meter tester.
What test devices would you propose ?
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
P.S. Any idea how I can modify my inverter to get it to run on lower voltages ?
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New battery load tests from today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYOcua4_6iM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OeQAL9qPko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z54xOa4MQd8
If you have any tips how to effectively test the battery please let me know.
In this moment I don´t have many measurement devices, so I need to
buy a bit more equipment to test this more throughfully...
I still need a 12 Volts power meter and a battery power meter tester.
What test devices would you propose ?
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
P.S. Any idea how I can modify my inverter to get it to run on lower voltages ?
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Stefan
Hello, I am an engineer working with battery charging technologies here in Australia. I can give you some tips.
A couple your questions -
Inverter modification? Dont bother with that it, it is too complicated if you are not trained in and are asking the question. Im not sure how many volts your battery is putting out but I would suggest you buy something like this DC to DC converter, it is German made and a very good brand. It is also VERY efficient. IF the resulting voltage is then too HIGH for the inverter then you can use a zener diode circuit to clamp the voltage at 12-13 volts.
http://www.kemo-electronic.de/en/Transformer-Dimmer/Converter/M029-DC-DC-Converter.php
How to load effectively battery? Essentially loading battery is shorting it with enough load so you can watch how it responds and differentiate between good 'deep' charge or surface voltage charge that fools the meter.
I have some very small Gel lead acid battery here that are only rated at 12v 1.3AH.
You need to work out your capacity of battery so you do not draw too much load or charge too much. On this topic I think you are putting too much current into your battery.
With the little battery I have here it is unreasonable to make th load too big like a 12v 50 watt lamp because it will crush the voltage level and drive below 12 volts quickly. So I use a 10 watt light and it should hold nicely above 12 volts without sinking rapidly. Your question is a little bit "how long is a piece of string" :-)
For your battery capacity I think a 12v 50 watt halogen light globe should work nicely as a load.
All the best
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test devices..i would suggest to lead the cell into electrolysis tanks in series with 2 carbon electrodes/cell and watch rate of bubbles formation.aprox 1.8 volt required/electrolysis unit so you can roughly estimate total volts and rates.dont knw much bowt inverters mate,cant help there.
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Yeasterday I tested the battery after being fully charged with a 35 Watts halogen bulb load.
After about 1.5 hours the voltage at the bulb was down to 3.82 Volts.
The stored energy in the battery was so only around 30 to 40 Watthours compared to normally 600 Watthours, what
a real lead acid 50 Ah battery can store with sufuric acid as the electrolyte.
Today I did further tests.
I used this time a 10 Watt Halogen lamp bulb as the load.
Since yeasterday 2 am up to today 8:40 pm, so 18:40 hours:minutes I charged the battery up with my other
older standard transformer based battery charger, which started at 2 am with about 6 amps and then at 8:40 pm still had 2 amps drawing from the charger..
It is a full wave bridge rectifier in this charger without cap, so it produces 100 Hz half-sine rectified pulses..
At 8:40 pm the voltage was at 13.5 Volts.
Then it let the battery stay open circuit for 35 minutes and then the voltage had dropped to:
11.69 Volt.
Then at 9:15 pm I connected the 10 Watt Halogen-lamp and the voltage was slowly dropping at this load.
AT 9:30 pm the voltage was 10.46 Volt.
At 10:15 pm the voltage was at 9.98 Volts still on the bulb load..
At 1:30 am the voltage was 8.16 Volts. Bulb still getting darker of course..
So finally now at 4:45 am the voltage was at 5.05 Volts and the current through the 10 Watts bulb was at 0.55 Ampere.
So at this last measurement the consumed power was at around 2.7 Watts.
So all in all the energy storage is not yet good..I think it needs more cycling to condition the plates better.
Also I need a 3 to 14 Volts Wattmeter that can integrate the used up Watts over time and thus show me the used up Watthours of energy, so we can really see the correct used up energy at the battery load.
Any suggestions ?
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
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@ stefan,im wondering if there will be any advantage to using alum. Its tiny acidity will deminish very quickly in the cell due to PbO2 + 4H+ +4e-. Its voltage will certainly drop faster.at some stage it may even go into alkaline territory then other weird reactions will begin to happen at the electrodes.
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Stefan
If you hope to 'condition ' the plates then you are ruining the process by charging to high amps.
Half amp at most.
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I made an experience with Epsom salt and distilled water and an old 12V 12Ah (real 1Ah) battery.
I got bigger Ah-capacity(load: 12W 10W bulb) and lower voltage. The battery makes more HHO under normal voltage charging(14,4V), and need to check the level of electrolit often.
More Ah and lower voltage with old batteries.
I want higher voltage with more Ah-s. :-D
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Well,
yeasterday I was out of my flat and disconnected the Charger at midday . Back then yeasterday in the evening at 10 pm the voltage at the open circuit battery voltage was 11.26 Volts after the whole afternoon off not on the charger.
I then put on the 10 watt halogen lamp load and let this load run again ...
Yeasterday morning as the Charger was still charging the battery , the current was still about 2 amps and the battery was slightly gasing, so in each cell always about every second a small bubble came up, so not much gasing but some...
Yeasterday I also picked up again from the pharmacy 1 KG alum what I ordered 2 days before ...
l will try the next day, when the capacity further remains low, increasing the concentration of alum in the battery further.
Thus I will drain the whole alum water from the battery and then pour it into a saucepan and heat it , and add more pure alum to it...
Let's see then if that does help ...
Have now also got each 600 grams of Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) and 600 grams of Glauber's salt (sodium sulfate).
So I will fill the next 2 battery tomorrow and post videos.
So now, at 2:00 am on the clock, the voltage at the 10 watt halogen bulb was down to 8.07 Volts, so after 4 hours and the current through it was 0.71 Ampere.
So that was still 5.7 watts ... So the capacity of the battery, I would say gets better now... also the lamp still lit pretty bright!
So, now at 6 o´clock AM the voltage dropped to 4.52 volts, and the current was 0.51 amperes at the 10 watt halogen bulb ...
Have now disconnected the lamp and re-connected the charger, which then pulled straight back almost 8 amps ...
So now slowly, the battery seems to be getting better in capacity ..
Regards, Stefan.
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Such a battery I have bought from ebay and have used in my tests, it is one without acid in it.
Acid is coming with it, but not yet filled in....
http://bit.ly/autobatterie_ohne_saeure
Gruss, Stefan.
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BTW,
for those who need a transportable pocket sized scope, I can recommend:
http://bit.ly/pocketscope (http://bit.ly/pocketscope)
Regards, Stefan.
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@ingy,,just add more concentrated h2so4.voltage goes up,power goes up.try add phosphoric acid too.
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Thx.
Stronger H2SO4 gives higher voltage with lower Ah-capacity.
The voltage of "epsomized" battery about 0,1V/cell under normal lead acid batt.
Without load: 12V (12,6V)
Low voltage limit: 10,4V (11V).
Charge 13,8V (14,4V).
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Thanks for the tips, I'm going to look at it, already saw cheap LCD watt-meter on Ebay today which can
measure from 4 Volts on... ... I'll T buy one first and see what you can make and measure with it ...
Here is the new test from today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LegNaGT91S8
Alum battery - further testing of 24 August 2013 and determination of the pH value of the electrolyte
Well, the infos from Mr. Bedini were a bit confusing: in the beginning, he has probably taken potassium alum and later used ammonium alum, when he later built these Copper bowls and magnesium batteries , so it was all a bit mixed up what exact chemicals he was using now for his ALum batteries...
I also wonder why Bedini has claimed that the batteries are alkaline ... for me the alum-water electrolytes now are pH 1 to 2, so a full acid !
Well yes, Roy the other ALum battery experimentor used ammonium alum from deodorant sticks .it would be nice if he could measure the PH value and let us know the PH level.
I connected the halogen lamp shortly after 6 pm and the battery is discharged again.
Today at 8:50 pm was the voltage at the 10 watt halogen bulb 8.69 volts.
Now at 11:30 pm the voltage had dropped to 7:08 volts ..
So now at 2:40 am the power was down to 4.22 volts and the current was at 0.50 amps.
I then measured the PH value of the cellagain at the positive pole, the pH value was now only pH 4 to 5,
so the acidity by the discharge has fallen significantly!
Before when the battery was fully charged it was between pH 1 and 2!
I have now connected the charger again and let it run til tommorow...
That's it for tonight.
Regards, Stefan.
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Well I let the battery now stay open circuit for the last several days. 1st of September at 11:27 the voltage was then 10.27 ..
September 1st before midday I added 3 eating spoons of potassium Alum in to every battery cell and charged the battery again for an hour or so.
Disconnected then my charger, cause I used my second new empty car battery ( never filled with acid) for to fill it with NaSO4 Sodium Sulfate- destilled Watter electrolyte.
I again used 600 Gramms of NaSO4 onto about 4 Liters of destilled watter and that was now already charging a few hours on the charger.
At September 1st at 11:32 I wrote:
I will let it charge on the EInhell charger until tommorow morning and then make measurements.
Before starting the charger the battery with the NaSO4 hat a PH-level of about 5 to 6 and a Voltage of 8.09 Volts.
The charger only displayed a charge current of about 4 amps, that is curious as the Alum Battery had a charge current of 6 to 8 amps when discharged and reconnected to
the charger, so the internak resistance of the NaSO4 Battery seems to be higher...
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Made 3 new battery update videos today.
The first one is with the new NaSO4-destilled Water electrolyte:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1DSqI2jpvg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1DSqI2jpvg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzvy0ydMFCw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzvy0ydMFCw)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J7MhhdXWGs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J7MhhdXWGs)
Enjoy !
Regards, Stefan.
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yes stefan.the ph of sodium sulfate is neutral,alum is acidic,thats why the difference in power and conductivity.higher acid more power,more conductivity,more voltage at cathode specificly which is very ph dependant.