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Conventional alternative energy systems => All other conventional alternative energy creation systems => Topic started by: Dr on August 03, 2013, 11:26:24 PM

Title: pedal power
Post by: Dr on August 03, 2013, 11:26:24 PM
it has been some time since I posted anything,but I was wondering if it would be possible to build a pedal powered energy system, using a homebuilt low speed alternator. I believe one would have to use a large flywheel to keep the load from bogging it down. would the wire in the copper coils be a large diameter or small? I would of course be using a battery storage system! any thoughts would be greatly appreciated
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Magluvin on August 04, 2013, 01:18:56 AM
I ride electric bikes. I have 3, 1 is 600w and a 500w and a 750w.

From what I understand, we as humans on bikes can produce 100w. Something I read. Not so sure about that. I know guys that ride 30 miles at 35 mph on a long flat road. I might think that they are producing more than 100w, or to say consuming more than 100w of human energy.

You dont have to use an alternator. Automotive DC electric cooling fan motors are smaller and have permanent magnets so the output is DC without the use of diodes. They work very good as generators and are good for 20 to 25 amps of continuous currents at 12 to 14 v, if you are able to pedal it to those levels, of which can be between 250 to 350w output, depending on the load.


Lol, I had a thought once based on the Matrix movie, sort of, was to have people driven power plants, but it is like an exercise gym with all generative exercise equipment. Maybe the people get paid to work out, or maybe its free, as compared to the prices of a nice gym, free may be attractive.
But then the place has to be AC'd which would require quite a few consistent members producing just for that, along with lighting, music, equipment electronics, 'air freshening' ;D , etc.

Then again, maybe it would only be enough for the gym to save some money on its electric bill.

Mags


Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Dr on August 04, 2013, 03:47:50 AM
Magluvin: thanks for the response,yes I agree that a human in good physical shape should be able to produce more than 100 watts of power, thats less than 1/7 th HP. I went out to the shop with a crazy idea and put together a quick setup of coil and magnets. My coil was a 100 turns of 22 ga. with a 1 sq. inch center hole . My magnets are 1/2 thick X1X1 neo. N42. I already had some 1/2 " MDF circles cutout so I made a quick mockup with axle and stator that would hold my coil!. My first test was I wanted to see how many leds I could light with the magnet passing over the coil the conventional way ( at 90 degrees or straight on) I hand cranked the rotor at 60 rpm and found I could barely light 1 led. and then I cut out a space on the opposite side of the rotor, so that the magnets are now cutting the same coil at a 45 degree angle, I also held the coil at a 45degree and cranked the rotor to the same 60 rpm, and I could now light 4 of the same size leds. I thought that I would be able to only light 2 leds since I was cutting  Twice as much copper with the same amount of flux. but to SQ. the output I was kind of surprisedCan someone else verify this, or am doing something wrong?
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Lakes on August 04, 2013, 04:26:21 PM
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Pedal+Power+bike&oq=Pedal+Power+bike&gs_l=youtube.3...29666.34889.0.36050.16.14.0.2.2.0.360.2273.3j8j2j1.14.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtube.SnvJ09zQvJU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVAZIDFMRXY
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Magluvin on August 04, 2013, 06:29:26 PM
Magluvin: thanks for the response,yes I agree that a human in good physical shape should be able to produce more than 100 watts of power, thats less than 1/7 th HP. I went out to the shop with a crazy idea and put together a quick setup of coil and magnets. My coil was a 100 turns of 22 ga. with a 1 sq. inch center hole . My magnets are 1/2 thick X1X1 neo. N42. I already had some 1/2 " MDF circles cutout so I made a quick mockup with axle and stator that would hold my coil!. My first test was I wanted to see how many leds I could light with the magnet passing over the coil the conventional way ( at 90 degrees or straight on) I hand cranked the rotor at 60 rpm and found I could barely light 1 led. and then I cut out a space on the opposite side of the rotor, so that the magnets are now cutting the same coil at a 45 degree angle, I also held the coil at a 45degree and cranked the rotor to the same 60 rpm, and I could now light 4 of the same size leds. I thought that I would be able to only light 2 leds since I was cutting  Twice as much copper with the same amount of flux. but to SQ. the output I was kind of surprisedCan someone else verify this, or am doing something wrong?

Hey Doc  ;D

If you are just looking to light leds, for the moment, try more turns on your coil. Also it is good to have the mags alternating NSNS and to space them so the mag centers, the N mags center is crossing one side of the coils windings and the S mags center is crossing the other side of the coil. This will double the number of windings being 'cut' by moving fields. 

1 magnet crossing the face of the coil, the fields will cut the approaching side of the coil first, causing current to flow in one direction in the coil, then as the magnet crosses the departure side of the coil, currents are reversed.  So as the mag passes the coil, you get 1 cycle of AC. By having more mags as I said above, you will get AC also but more and a continuous wave of AC. With the 1 mag as you have it, try to use a full wave rectifier to charge a cap, then see what voltages can be reached by storing each generative pass of the magnet. The you might be able to light the led using a current limiting resistor from the cap and get constant light from the led instead of blinking.

Is your coil air core?

Mags
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Dr on August 04, 2013, 09:20:53 PM
@
 Lakes: thank you for the web addresses for pedal bikes, I noticed no one was using a large flywheel to smooth out the loading. mmmmmm                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   @Magluvin: I do have air inside the coil! I know it is possible to mix fine metal shavings with epoxy and fill the coils, but this creats heavy cogging, due to magnetic attraction,,but increases the output of the coil. I have aDC motor that I turned with a drill motor, but was really surprised at how much  HEAT that thing put out when hooked to a load, even a small wattage light bulb. I was wondering how it would hold up to long term use , with no cooling air flowing over it? :-\
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Magluvin on August 04, 2013, 09:44:53 PM
@
 Lakes: thank you for the web addresses for pedal bikes, I noticed no one was using a large flywheel to smooth out the loading. mmmmmm                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   @Magluvin: I do have air inside the coil! I know it is possible to mix fine metal shavings with epoxy and fill the coils, but this creats heavy cogging, due to magnetic attraction,,but increases the output of the coil. I have aDC motor that I turned with a drill motor, but was really surprised at how much  HEAT that thing put out when hooked to a load, even a small wattage light bulb. I was wondering how it would hold up to long term use , with no cooling air flowing over it? :-\

Cogging can be smoothed out with asymmetric core centers. Like when one mag is being pulled toward the core, the other is trying to get away from its core. Each coil can have its own rectifier and cap, then you can series parallel as needed. Also like you said epoxy, the mix can be weak to compromise between cog and power out. JB Weld already is magnetic. The 2 part epoxy only the 'metal' part is magnetic. But their 2 part putty sticks, both the outer part and the inner part are magnetic.  You can tape off the coil and just mold it in. 

What size DC motor did you try with the drill?  Cooling fan motors can take some heat. ;) And some of the pancake motors, they are nice and compact and can take or give some good power.

Mags
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Lakes on August 04, 2013, 09:53:35 PM
This is a fun one. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwlTmdPM_Ro

This is good too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88t6cvwgm-4
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Dr on August 05, 2013, 01:02:21 AM
Magluvin? I guess that means you take a liking for magnets? cool handle!! My DC motor was from an old mikita cordless drill that I wore out along time ago, actually the chuck was stripped so I tore it apart and saved the motor!  it was 12Volt, I hooked up a 12V light bulb and spun it up with my new cordless drill. the motor got so hot I had to let go pretty quickly, or I would have burned my hand! :o
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Dr on August 05, 2013, 01:08:11 AM
Lakes: Those last two that you showed do have flywheels, but they are on the small side and pretty inneffective, as there is no weight concentrated out on the rim. The flywheel I have in mind is  a min. of 5 ft. dia. and weighs at least500lbs. :)
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: SkyWatcher123 on August 05, 2013, 01:28:33 AM
Hi folks, thanks for sharing, here is an idea that uses the lifting of heavy weights.
The pedal sprockets are geared so it is very easy to lift the weights and goes slowly, then when lifted to max height, the pedal cranks do not move because of free wheel.
Then the sprocket ratios step up the slow decent of the weight and give high rpm at the generator head to power a load or charge batteries.
Hope you enjoy the funny picture design, hehe.
peace love light
tyson ;)

Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Dr on August 11, 2013, 09:40:54 PM
Started my pedal powered project, instead of sitting on my fat ass and watching TV. I can sit on my fat ass  and pedal a machine so I can watch TV, get some  much needed exercise, and maybe have a little fun doing this project. I made my stator already 9 coils with 160 turns of 22 ga. with a  3 phase AC output. heres a pic.
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Dr on August 11, 2013, 10:34:03 PM
that picture was sized to small, trying again
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Dr on August 11, 2013, 10:37:45 PM
Wow is there a tutorial on how to upload pictures on here somewhere, the quality is really crappy!???
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Dr on August 14, 2013, 03:39:39 AM
I made some more parts today, lets see if I can get the pictures  clear this time :-[
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Dr on August 14, 2013, 03:41:40 AM
Ah much better!! I will repost the stator.
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Dr on August 15, 2013, 04:43:53 AM
I progress: today I tried to put my homebrew altenator together, without using the jacking screws, thought I would save some time. BIG mistake if it hadnt been four 1/2 inch bolts on the back rotor assembly I would have crushed 8 fingers! :-[  24 neo s at 52 lbs pull each, ouch! I left it alone for now and made a rectifier of sorts, with heat sink
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Dr on August 17, 2013, 01:05:13 AM
Hello again: dont know if anyone is interested or not but I worked on my pedal power dynamo again , the last two days I have been working on a frame of sorts, it will hold my batteries, altenator and flywheel. here is another picture.
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Dr on August 21, 2013, 02:47:05 AM
Imade some more progress on my pedal power machine today, I pretty much put all the parts together( except a seat) and did a few tests to see what kind of out put I was getting from the altenator. I was able to light a 12V car headlight,  A 12V dc motor ( from a cordless drill) and slightly charge a 12V battery all at the same time. If I keep the flywheel at about 60 RPM , I get about 15.7 Volts. I am having trouble measuring the amps, and I need some help to see if I am hooking up my meter properly? anyway here are some more pics ;D
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Dr on August 21, 2013, 02:49:38 AM
was trying to do more than one pic. :-[
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Magluvin on August 21, 2013, 03:46:42 AM
Imade some more progress on my pedal power machine today, I pretty much put all the parts together( except a seat) and did a few tests to see what kind of out put I was getting from the altenator. I was able to light a 12V car headlight,  A 12V dc motor ( from a cordless drill) and slightly charge a 12V battery all at the same time. If I keep the flywheel at about 60 RPM , I get about 15.7 Volts. I am having trouble measuring the amps, and I need some help to see if I am hooking up my meter properly? anyway here are some more pics ;D

Hey Doc  ;]

Most meters, in order to measure amps, you will have to switch the + lead from the right to the far left of the holes at the bottom of the meter face. Then you connect your leads in series with the circuit, so that all current in the circuit flows 'through' the meter. Also, most meters are good for 10amp capability, some up to 20amps, unless you have a shunt for your particular meter to measure higher currents.

'WattsuP' is a device that can be connected permanently and is good for up to 50 amps continuous 100amp peak. It gives voltage, amp hours, watt hours also. Check it out. About $50.  It will tell you what you need to know. It runs on 4.5v up to 60v. Also you can apply ghost power to the meter and then the meter will work with lower voltages. ;]


If you have tried to measure 'amps' with the meter by putting the leads 'across' the gen or battery, you may have blown the internal fuse in the meter. Some meters have a spare inside. ;] But if you didnt switch the + lead from right to far left when trying to measure amps, the fuse is ok because the + lead needs to be in the proper hole on the meter for voltage or amps. For measuring voltage, the meter should be high resistance at the leads, so it doesnt affect a working circuit while doing measurements, but when you switch the leads to the proper port/hole for amps measurement, then there is a very low ohm shunt across the leads 'in the meter'. So putting the leads across a battery or voltage source will essentially short out the source/circuit. And if the source/circuit can provide 10amps or more, the meters internal fuse should blow. Typically a fast blow fuse for replacement.

Mags
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Magluvin on August 21, 2013, 03:49:56 AM
And, thats a big flywheel!!   ;)


That 15v output. Is that from pedaling? Also, is it heavy pedaling, if pedaling, to hold that 15v+?

Nice work.   ;)

Mags
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Dr on August 21, 2013, 05:27:41 AM
Magluvin: Thank you for the heads up on amp meter hookup, Its an analog with a needle?!! I tried hooking it between + at rectifier and positine at battery it reads to 50 but if I  even slowly turn the altenator it pegs to 50. is my meter broken?  Once I get the flywheel up to speed (20) seconds and under full output load ? it is very easy to maintain that speed, even easier than riding that bike on a flat surface flat out ;D here is a picture of the gauge
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Magluvin on August 21, 2013, 06:04:46 AM
Ok, I see now. I thought you were using a multimeter. ::)   

This meter should work fine for what you are doing.

Put it in series with one of the leads 'between' your alternator and battery, so that the current flowing from the gen to the battery flows through the meter. If it pegged 50amps, then you must have connected it across the battery(parallel, not series) Unless your pedal powered gen produces more than 50amps at 15v. :o :o ;D   Hopefully the meter is ok.  ;) No fuses in that one I would say.

Mags

Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Dr on August 22, 2013, 02:52:04 AM
Well Magluvin I believe that meter is shot :(  I guess that is what I get for shopping at the surplus store. I ordered a new one. I am not very happy with the output of my alternator so I am designing a new one with bigger magnets and heavier magnet wire probably 15 ga. (since I already have it) ;)  And I need to fine tune a few other things as well, Like my drive chains are too loose. But overall I am pretty happy with it ;D ;D
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Magluvin on August 22, 2013, 03:18:13 AM
Well Doc, maybe it was 1.21 gigawatts that did it.  ;) Its possible the shunt burned. But I might think it would be noticeable. 50 amp fuse blow can be heard quite clearly, of which the shunt in a 50 amp meter should be able to handle more. Bang.

Look at the "Wattsup" meter. Ebay or RC hobby and a few other places on line. For your application, I think you would be very happy. It even tells you peak amps, wattage. Im very happy with mine. I use it for my ebikes and to test other projects.

What are you not happy about with your generator?

Im just finally finishing up my version of Lasersabers EZ spin motor. He said the 42awg will test your patients. Well, I have quite a few bobbins that the wire broke before finishing 3300 turns. >:( ;D   One of the issues is maintaining winding speed/rotation or the wire can get tugged by the weight of the large spool. Soldering my coil(24) leads(48) to terminal pins tonight. Check out Lasersaber on YT    EZ spin motor if your interested. I should be set to do a vid on mine soon.

Mags

Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: totoalas on August 22, 2013, 03:24:40 AM
Mr Delanco's VAWT on a thread by Kyle Karrington  in EF deserve a second look 
If somebody can draw a circuit will be better
If youre tired on the bike ..... then this it    lol
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Dr on August 23, 2013, 02:14:05 AM
Hi Mags: That meter wasnt bad after all, It was meant for 50 AMP AC not DC, the guy at the surplus store straightened me out,  apparently AC amps has just a _ straight line under it while a DC amp meter has  first a straight line and then a dotted line under that. I looked on a digital volt meter and there it was, I felt pretty foolish in that store with everyone looking at me and someone even said " you didnt know that!" Well I am too damn old to get embarrassed anymore so I just laughed and said nope!!! But anyway I swapped him out and the new one works just fine! But I didnt need anything close to 50 a 0 to 5 would be just fine. I hooked up an old used car battery today and I was lucky to get 4.5 AMPS at 18 volts, But once again I was very surprised at how easy it was to maintain that speed and  power level once I got it there. Hey I am 63 and in terrible shape, Imagine what a 20 year old in eccellent shape could do!!
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Dr on August 23, 2013, 02:29:10 AM
Totoalas:I will check that out I got most of my information from "HUGH PIGGOT" wind turbine books, They are chockful of useful information. And no I am not tired of pedalling my generator heck Im just getting started, Havent had this much fun in years. The first time I saw the needle move on that gauge I thought WOW how cool is that. I know its a small step, but I am going to keep fine tuning it till I get some decent returns on my sweat equity!! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Magluvin on August 23, 2013, 02:34:19 AM
Hey Doc

Cool. But still, 50A on the ac meter is strange.  ;)

That old battery is receiving 4.5a 18v?   That battery is bad.  Try a good one and see if there is a difference. A new battery will take quite a while to get to 18v at 4.5A. Actually 18v is too much, so if a good battery were allowed to get(charged) to 18v, the battery would end up bad soon enough.    So dont rely on that test as a conclusion. ;)   I have some bad sla batts that will take on 25v at very little amps. Once they do start taking on a charge of any kind, that voltage will drop and current will increase.

Also you could try some other loads. You said you tried an automotive light bulb. Well try more. ;D Like more together in parallel. Connect 1 and test. Then 2 and test. Then 3......   Putting them in parallel of course. This would give you a good definition(measuring V and A) of what the machine is capable of.

Can you do a vid of it in action. Everybody likes a movie. ;D Id like to see that big wheel spinnin. ;)


Mags
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Dr on August 23, 2013, 02:35:12 AM
Mags: 3300 turns of 42 ga. holy cow!!! I got cramps with 160 turns of 22ga. I hope you have an auto winder :o  Thanks for the heads up  on the wattsup meter, yea thats definately for me gonna order one right now I will definatley check out that  U tube site sounds interesting!!
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: Dr on August 23, 2013, 04:39:59 AM
Mags: I am going to try your suggestion with the light bulbs . The one I had vaporized, I was showing a friend of mine the pedal generator ( he thinks Im nuts) and I  cranked it up till it got so bright we could not look at it, and then it just went out, I thought it was a bad connection, but on closer examination both filaments were gone, there was just some white powdery residue left. As far as the U tube vidieo I dont have a clue how to do that, but I will resaearch how to do it.
Title: Re: pedal power
Post by: overcurrent on October 08, 2014, 12:53:49 PM
DR, I was thinking of building something like this and I came across this thread so I figured I'd ask how you made out with the pedal power and what you ended up with for a fly wheel, magnets and wire size