Cookies-law

Cookies help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
http://www.overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please leave this website now. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

Poplamp

poplamp

CCTool

CCTool

LEDTVforSale

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

OverUnity Book

overunity principles book

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Statistics

  • *Total Members: 81953
  • *Latest: prasimix

  • *Total Posts: 491677
  • *Total Topics: 14471
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 1
  • *Guests: 84
  • *Total: 85

Facebook

Author Topic: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap  (Read 145641 times)

Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13524
Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #75 on: May 31, 2013, 01:59:42 AM »
OK, I fold.
I checked the size on the video, the damn thing is bigger than his thumb from the tip to the knuckle, and on my hand that is in the 35 mm range, so it matches the dimensions given by the manufacturer for the 10uF capacitor.
Thanks for pounding on me, I have always been confused by capacitor markings, especially when there seem to be so many different systems in use, old and new, domestic and foreign.
At least it doesn't have an HP part number or something like that.
So 10 uF at 100 volts is 0.05 Joules, and if the rotor dissipates 5 mW it gets 10 seconds of drive. So we are in the ball park of plausibility, based on the behaviour of the rotor, but I am still skeptical about where the cap gets a full 100 volt charge.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Farmhand

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1584
Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #76 on: May 31, 2013, 04:02:05 AM »
@Farmhand: Very nice blueprint schematic. Are your L1 and L2 coils on the same core? Where are the clock signals to the mosfet gates coming from?

Tinsel, Thanks, the trigger pulses come from the rpr 220 photo reflector shown above but the drawing is difficult to fathom I know, I'm awful at explaining myself, the coils are on three different cores, two motor coils MC1-1 and MC1-2 are the two motor coils (separate cores same phase, in parallel) and the MC-2 coils are two coils (bifilar in parallel on one core ) to feed the charge caps and help drive the rotor, the MC-2 coils are the "resonant charging coils" loose term not to upset MileHigh  :) they share a core, the current phase in them is after the motor coil current phase because of the charge cap and how the "resonant charging circuit works" I'm fairly sure you understand that well and don't need me to explain that area, just saying for others. :) But yes three separate cores one each for the motor coils and one for the two charge coils to share.

The boost converter is controlled by the picaxe micro and the shutdown signal is provided by it too, but the signals are processed by the CD4047 chip "in hardware kind of thing" but I did that mainly because I can't write interrupt code. When I get my arduino I would very much appreciate your or anyone's help to use that for pulse processing.

Since I've made some small changes to the circuit and an additional option for high current pulses by load switching I'll make a video and try to properly explain things. I've cleaned up the wiring somewhat but I want to clean it up more first so everything can be seen clearly. A person on another forum is interested to try it out so I need to come up with a working formula and may well build another smaller higher voltage higher speed motor in a different form.

Still my halls have not arrived. The rpr 220 photo reflectors are a bit of trouble because they can be affected by bright light, the circuit i made has a sensitivity adjustment and the choice of inverted or non inverted signals depending on if reflector strips or light absorbing strips or grooves are used.

If while using generator coils to power LED's and I take all the released flyback out of the system to cap pulse charge a battery the motor runs a bit slower but charges the battery or runs a load, however if I use my return circuit, the motor runs faster (still generating for the LED's) but uses the same input power, so the energy goes either one place or the other. I use no heatsinks, even with more than 36 Watts input. No hot, barely warm.

Not sure where I will post about it yet, but i would dearly like to continue and develop the pulse control you guys spoke of previously, I think this motor design has merit, it runs smooth and efficiently in "pulse mode" with minimal input, but can also run smooth and with good power driving loads with wider pulse widths, I find 40% is about best, I would have thought 50% but 30% is ok 40 is best for loads.

The charging coil aiding the rotor and increasing the motor cap voltage principal works without the inductive return, they are separate idea's.

Also I ought to correct myself a few times to be sure it gets out, I found that with my motor because of the charging coil I don't require the "L3" inductor in the return circuit, if no charging coil is used as in a regular pulse motor the "L3" inductor should have a lot more inductance than I showed in the drawing. Basically with my motor the MC-2 Charging coil is the impedance that causes the return cap to charge to a high voltage then discharge when it can through the charging coil, so I kind of tricked myself there, the cap can be switched once the coil discharge reaches a certain drain voltage if desired rather than an inductor.

I'll try to get things together in the next day or two so I can show more clearly the circuit and all the details as it is working on the bench.

I do understand I am a very bad explainer and it's no wonder people don't always get what I "trying " to say. My bad, no doubt.

Oh TK the RPR circuit reads the rotor strips and sends the signal to the CD4047 which is configured in "monostable mode" for retriggering. and I use the "555 diode trick" to get less than 50% duty for the "oscillator out pin" output.  :) The R-C network determines the PW and I can switch to 50% duty ect.. Crude but very effective.  :)

Cheers


Offline lasersaber

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 179
Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #77 on: May 31, 2013, 06:16:54 AM »
@TinselKoala
Quote
So 10 uF at 100 volts is 0.05 Joules, and if the rotor dissipates 5 mW it gets 10 seconds of drive. So we are in the ball park of plausibility, based on the behaviour of the rotor, but I am still skeptical about where the cap gets a full 100 volt charge.

It charges really fast just by blowing on it.  One simple flick of the finger sends it up over 10 volts almost instantly.

@Farmhand
That sounds like a really amazing motor.  I am looking forward to seeing the video.

I just posted this over at:  http://laserhacker.com/forum/index.php?topic=155.0

Hi Magluvin,

Quote
Also from what I understand from the vids is that the motor operates as a motor and it generates. If you put a diode like in the second vid, is series with all the rest, we can only have one or the other, unless the diode is shorted internally or it has a reverse breakdown that the gen portion of the operation can break.

This will help:  http://www.learnabout-electronics.org/diodes_03.php

"Typically a germanium device may have a reverse leakage current of several micro-Amperes but in silicon devices it is much smaller, only a few nano-Amperes"


I have the germanium diode there to let the rotor function as a generator when accelerated while using the leakage current to keep the rotor spinning when free spinning.  I was only using it while experimenting with the film capacitors.

Quote
Laser said in the second vid that voltages can get to be really high across the 10uf cap. Im fairly positive that he means that when he speeds it up, the voltage goes up(generation) and if your not speeding it up it is acting like a motor, of which he says it takes a while for the voltage in the cap to be depleted.


Exactly.  One light spin with my finger tip sends the 10uF film cap up over 10 volts.

Quote
And Lasersaber, could you please just poke in here or there so that we know you are still with us?  The spoon feeding and then no communications at all is hard on our imaginations, if you know what I mean.   Hope all is well, and thanks for showing.

Sorry, I am really busy with work, plus every spare moment I have been experimenting with this little motor.  I have done hundreds of different experiments with the motor over the last few nights.  I even tried running it off a piece of Barium titanate transducer!  I have been having a blast and have seen some insanely long run times on small capacitors.  I am currently printing EZ Spin version three with cone shaped bobbins plus a new modular design that will make testing different configurations very easy.  The coils snap in and out allowing for easy testing of different coil windings etc.  I am really interested in air core coils that accelerate the motor while shorted.  I will keep trying to get it to self-run in spite of my doubts that such a thing is possible.  I like trying for the impossible and giving it my best shot.  Already it has been paying off on this little motor.  Prior to this project I would not have thought it possible to easily build a home made motor that spins at a decent RPM while using 1 micro amp.  My previous record was around 20 micro amps and that rotor was much smaller, weighed less and spun slower while using the exact same bearings as this current motor.

Offline wattsup

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2596
    • Spin Conveyance Theory - For a New Perspective...
Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #78 on: May 31, 2013, 01:41:50 PM »
@all

Regarding the reed, I had done some testing on reeds back in 2008 and posted results at this thread;
http://www.overunity.com/3972/the-tesla-project/msg129703/#msg129703

If you can find a separate solenoid air core coil and put the reed through it. The only thing is how to use it in such a set-up. Maybe put that solenoid coil is series with one of the 6 coils and use the 5 others in a series circuit with the cap while the reed itself is between coils 3 and 4 (of 5). This way will eliminate the reed positioning problem since timing will be on coil 6 via a reed with quenching solenoid.

Neos have a very strong effect on the reed making it stick much longer and using the reed outside the wheel might be a way to look at the problem. hehehe

The main point is there are many ways to play around with such a set-up.

Example from @conradelektro image of his scope (see below). For me the thickness of the rise is showing how the magnets and coils are not perfectly aligned at 60 degrees so you are getting six rises clumped into the same overall instance. This is normal for a hand made wheel, By contrast, the EZ motor should show a thinner and either higher or more intense rise since that motor was made using perfect magnet/coil alignment.

One main question will be equal number of coils to magnets or an even/odd mix. I am thinking it will be even/odd as being better because it will really provide the cascade effect to the series coils and not a timed effect on equal coils. That mean two rotors, one with even number and one with odd to experiment the differences.

I am looking into getting myself an @LS wheel.
Seems all I have to do is use the design and find a local printerman then wind the coils and mount the magnets.
I have a better idea, maybe I can buy @Lasersaber's. hehehehehehehehehehehe
I would like to add some other features if possible because I already foresee the variables towards expansion. But the software seems to be very expensive.

http://www.autodesk.com/products/autodesk-3ds-max-design/buy
OUCH!!!!!!!!!

wattsup

Added:

Regarding the germanium diode, I don't think the reverse threshold will play into this because the frequencies are really not high enough, unless there are harmonics being created. Now if you tried the same thing with a diode carousel with regular diode "opening" at .7 volts instead of .2 volts of the germanium diode, that may provide a better cannon effect on the cap since the voltage would have to rise higher to hit the cap. But again, any time you talk diodes, you would need a diode carousel to test many models to find the best one while the rotor is turning.


Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13524
Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #79 on: May 31, 2013, 06:58:15 PM »
@lasersaber: thanks for the response, I think your motor is really neat. I'd be building one myself but I don't have my precision tooling available at present, nor any fine magnet wire.
A comment on runtimes: Since you have such a finely-spinning rotor, perhaps dissipating only a few milliWatts or less in bearing and windage friction, it will spin a long time from just an initial spin, with no source of power at all. So the addition of power from a capacitor will increase the time it takes to run down from a given start RPM. (I don't think you are accelerating from a standing start, are you?) It is this difference in rundown times, rather than the absolute time, that is most important, I think.
So, it would be interesting to compare rundown times from a known starting RPM in both conditions: 1) no cap/diode, coil circuit just open; 2) coil/cap in circuit, with cap charged to its stable voltage for that starting RPM.
It would also be very interesting to see just what the power dissipation of the rotor is, using the technique of calculating its MoI and timing some unpowered rundowns from a known RPM. This will give an average "mechanical" power dissipation value, that you can then compare to the rate of energy provided by the capacitor during a powered rundown...eventually leading to an overall efficiency value.
Nice work, I really wish I could build my own to play with. If I build with #27 wire (all I've got) it will be massive !

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #79 on: May 31, 2013, 06:58:15 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline schuler

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #80 on: May 31, 2013, 06:59:22 PM »
Has anyone tried to use blender 3d modeling tool?
http://www.blender.org/

Blender website says that it has a module for 3d printers.

Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13524
Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #81 on: May 31, 2013, 07:08:33 PM »
@Farmhand: Thanks, understood perfectly, so far I think.

For my information to use while fiddling with Arduino code:
As I gather it, then, to interface with an Arduino or other controller we simply need to provide the clock signals from it to the gate inputs shown in the blueprint, right? And we want to be able to vary the timing (delay between "sensor triggered" input and "pulse to mosfets" output) and the dwell (pulse "on" proportion or duty cycle), right?
Can you please sketch a preferred timing diagram for all the mosfet inputs? That would also help to understand the circuit.

Something like this:
Sensor: __________/--------\_____________/---------\_________
MOS1 : ____________/---------\_____________/---------\_______
MOS2 : ----------------\_______/-----------------\________/-------
etc. I'm sure you know what I mean.
thanks--TK

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #81 on: May 31, 2013, 07:08:33 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13524
Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #82 on: May 31, 2013, 07:10:50 PM »
Has anyone tried to use blender 3d modeling tool?
http://www.blender.org/

Blender website says that it has a module for 3d printers.
I've had blender installed for quite a while but the learning curve seems pretty steep and all I've been able to do is make a cube and rotate it ... so that would be a "no" from me.

Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13524
Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #83 on: May 31, 2013, 07:19:07 PM »
Wattsup said:
Quote
Example from @conradelektro image of his scope (see below). For me the thickness of the rise is showing how the magnets and coils are not perfectly aligned at 60 degrees so you are getting six rises clumped into the same overall instance. This is normal for a hand made wheel, By contrast, the EZ motor should show a thinner and either higher or more intense rise since that motor was made using perfect magnet/coil alignment.
I agree, I think.
Quote
One main question will be equal number of coils to magnets or an even/odd mix. I am thinking it will be even/odd as being better because it will really provide the cascade effect to the series coils and not a timed effect on equal coils. That mean two rotors, one with even number and one with odd to experiment the differences.
Not necessarily "odd-even" but "relatively prime", that is with no common factors. Like 5 and 6, or 3 and 5, or 9 and 11. 3 and 6 would not qualify because 6 = 2x3.
7 and 8 are good choices. So you could have an 8-coil stator and rotors with 7 and 8 magnets.
I thought about this too and I dunno. I think if each coil is separately controlled and fired then the relative-prime strategy might be best, but I can't see it working well if all coils are fired at once, like the series or parallel circuits would do.

Offline Farmhand

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1584
Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #84 on: May 31, 2013, 11:25:48 PM »
@Farmhand: Thanks, understood perfectly, so far I think.

For my information to use while fiddling with Arduino code:
As I gather it, then, to interface with an Arduino or other controller we simply need to provide the clock signals from it to the gate inputs shown in the blueprint, right? And we want to be able to vary the timing (delay between "sensor triggered" input and "pulse to mosfets" output) and the dwell (pulse "on" proportion or duty cycle), right?
Can you please sketch a preferred timing diagram for all the mosfet inputs? That would also help to understand the circuit.

Something like this:
Sensor: __________/--------\_____________/---------\_________
MOS1 : ____________/---------\_____________/---------\_______
MOS2 : ----------------\_______/-----------------\________/-------
etc. I'm sure you know what I mean.
thanks--TK

Please bear with me if I am seeming to repeat myself, this is to try to help explain it for all TK not just you.  :) I think i'm trying to explain too many things at once and their relations to each other.

Yeah I know what you mean but there is not really anything to draw. Both Motor switches are in parallel, they switch together, they share a driver chip. I think you mean for a second switching phase, I haven't employed a second switching phase yet. With a fixed sensor the timing would need to be adjusted to suit the rpm and the Pulse width adjusted to limit speed, if a load is detected the pulse width should go to maximum and the voltage automatically boosted via the circuit boost converter till the rpm becomes stable or over idle, all the while keeping timing at optimum, then the setup should adjust values back to keep the rpm at the desired rate.

The way it is now the timing is adjusted by moving the sensor, which works OK for a given load but the pulse width is only optimum when the motor is spinning at the desired rate, when the motor is coming up to speed the PW is always too narrow which is the limiting factor for the power when loaded, if the pulse width widens as the motor is slowed from loading the drop off in torque will be much less or none. Basically when the motor is loaded and slows "as it is" it has less and less power due to less and less PW and so less input power which means the load has more and more slowing effect as the rotor gets slower. If the motor slows the PW needs to widen as it slows to maintain the 40 % duty or optimum duty, when the motor reaches the desired terminal rpm in free running the PW should be auto adjusted back and the input voltage auto adjusted down to keep the rpm at the desired rate, all the while keeping the timing at optimum.

I've made the first part of the video to explain the charging circuit and some other things. Now I'll make part 2 to explain what I missed and show it working.

I think it is quite confusing and as I said I'm not a good explainer, I'm the type of person who doesn't understand why others don't see what I see, so I fail to explain myself properly. I take it for granted that others see what is in my head at times and I know that's not conducive to getting people to see what I see. I don't see dead people or anything  :) Just working devices. I understand how difficult it is to "get" what a person might be trying to convey at times so all I can do is keep trying. All i can say is that it works and is an obvious improvement to a regular pulse motor when the comparison is so easy, slide the coil away the rotor slows down, slide the coil in close the motor speeds up, but it's not as simple as just adding another motor coil because the extra torque is at extremely low cost, as the magnetizing force is already happening in the charging coil as a result of making an increased voltage for the motor coils and the force is shifted in phase to the motor coils so the input power to the rotor is over a longer period.

I want to forget the inductive return part of the circuit and explain the main thing I made the motor to demonstrate. That is the two driving phases from one switching event using the charging circuit coil to aid the rotation. Everything else is secondary to that principal.

I used Tesla's Ignition coil patent drawing to explain it and the patent should be read to get his explanation of the function of the charging circuit. For those who don't get it yet.

In this video I explain about the charging circuit and how I am applying it to my motor. The next video I'll explain more about the circuitry and show it powering some load and some scope vision to show what I mean about some things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUxFHPMa65A

Applying the resonant charging circuit to a motor is a good idea and it works, I don't think anyone has done it like I am doing it before, but i may be mistaken, nonetheless it works and is very useful, as well as particularly and perfectly suited to improve the power/torque of a pulse motor in two or more ways. I am securing a difference in phase between two "series coils" so as to provide a second driving phase from the charging coil as it increases the cap voltage for the motor coils. If people don't "get" it or use it it's their loss, but I'm going to keep explaining it so there is no mistake that the idea to apply the principal to a motor was mine, that the principal is Tesla's charging circuit, and I am open sourcing the application even though I am the only one developing it at this time. I know some will help if they can and I appreciate that more than folks can imagine. It's the basic principal I want to get across first, and show the benefit. With the basic principal understood then my intentions become more obvious. The details can't be considered too much without the principal and the intended application of it being understood.

Cheers


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #84 on: May 31, 2013, 11:25:48 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline OscarMeyer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 74
Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #85 on: June 01, 2013, 08:19:41 AM »
Nice motor but I've been down this rd b4.  It leads to slow rundown times but never ou.   I hate to be a skeptic but the thing aint gonna work in selfrun or selfloop mode.  Even the Lutech motor can never self loop even tho it appears to put out more energy than it consumes.  The reason why is because the output measurements are all incorrect as the wrong equipment is used to measure the current which is pulsed. 
OM

Offline Farmhand

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1584
Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #86 on: June 01, 2013, 09:19:40 AM »
Hi Oscar, I assume you're referring to LaserSaber's motor ? If so I agree. I shouldn't need to ask and it's my own fault for posting about my motor in someone else's thread. I just wanted to show that almost any setup can take a long time to run down if it's setup to do so. Sometimes it's difficult to know if a claim of extra energy has been made or not. I'm not sure that's been claimed here. LaserSabers setup sure is neat though.

My own goals is not to self run or make OU, it's just to design and build a motor to take advantage of the charging circuit ect. I first thought it was obvious enough not to need it's own thread but I think it might. I didn't mean to go off topic. My apologies.

Cheers


Offline Magluvin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5435
Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #87 on: June 01, 2013, 04:12:19 PM »
I really wish I could build my own to play with. If I build with #27 wire (all I've got) it will be massive !

27awg is 4 times the diameter of 42awg. If Lasers coils are 1/2 in dia, then the 27awg would be near 2in in dia, but thats only for the same number of turns. Havnt looked up the resistance differences,will be digging in this afternoon, but I think 42awg will be more than 4 times the resistance of the 27awg. Would have to look that up. But from what I imagine, it could be near 16-20 times difference considering the square area of the two, or to say the 27 has much greater volume of copper than just 4 times.

So to be in the same ballpark, yea, it would be massive. But it would be somthin to see, thats for sure.   ;)    One thing about building bigger, its much easier to get accuracy in the build.

Im working out a design that will use more smaller coils. If you have read my analogy of  audio speakers and motors, I think more is better when it comes to efficiency.

1 speaker     100w    100db       But 2 speakers    100w(total 50w each)  103db

4 speakers    100w(tot 25w each)  106db   ;)    And so on.

Mags

Offline DreamThinkBuild

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 566
Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #88 on: June 01, 2013, 06:33:10 PM »
Hi Conrad,

That is a very nice build.

Hi Wattsup,

There are some alternative open source 3D modeling tools.

FreeCad is coming along pretty nice.
http://www.freecadweb.org

Blender has a steep learning curve on the GUI but is feature rich once figured out.
http://www.blender.org/

OpenSCAD for a more coded parametric design.
http://www.openscad.org/

Wings 3D Is good for mesh editing
http://www.wings3d.com/

Meshlab is good for cleaning/repairing a final mesh.
http://meshlab.sourceforge.net/

Here's a list of some more free modelers
http://www.3ders.org/3d-software/3d-software-list.html


Offline Magluvin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5435
Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #89 on: June 01, 2013, 09:05:47 PM »
27awg is 4 times the diameter of 42awg. If Lasers coils are 1/2 in dia, then the 27awg would be near 2in in dia, but thats only for the same number of turns. Havnt looked up the resistance differences,will be digging in this afternoon, but I think 42awg will be more than 4 times the resistance of the 27awg. Would have to look that up. But from what I imagine, it could be near 16-20 times difference considering the square area of the two, or to say the 27 has much greater volume of copper than just 4 times.



Made a mistake in the difference in wire. 30awg is 4 times the dia of 42 awg. I had that number in my head from the other day when I made that comparison. The 27awg is near 6 times the diameter.  So massive is a good word for it. ;)

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Has anyone seen Lasersabers new motor runs on 1000uf cap
« Reply #89 on: June 01, 2013, 09:05:47 PM »

 

Share this topic to your favourite Social and Bookmark site

Please SHARE this topic at: