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Author Topic: Joseph Newman Motor  (Read 16911 times)

Offline neomagik

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Joseph Newman Motor
« on: April 30, 2013, 02:42:00 PM »
Hello all,

This is my first time here at OU and apologies in advance for the lengthy post but I’d just like to explain how I ended up here.

My brother is an out an out conspiracy theorist, to the point where he can’t really talk about anything else. He is 27 years old, didn’t particularly do very well at school and now works with our dad as a builder. I’m not really sure what the catalyst was for him to be the way he is but whatever it was really took hold of his mind and channelled his thoughts along a one way path. It has driven a wedge between him and the rest of the family and any time we see him a heated debate or argument will ensue. Working with my dad has sparked many an argument between them, some to the point of name calling. This is a sad state to get into between father and child.

I myself am an electrical design engineer and I was at odds with him for a long time until he showed me some videos on Youtube, the first of which being the incident whereby Roger Hayes, the chairman of the British Constitution Group was unlawfully imprisoned without trial last year. The fact that this never made mainstream news was the kick down the rabbit hole that I needed and am glad to have fallen into. My mind has and is continually being expanded now I have this altered view of the world, its leaders and their motives. Youtube has become the vehicle by which a growing number of people are rising up and speaking out. One of my favourite clips is of the guy who stands up to the bailiffs who are trying to access a residence and when the police arrive he convinces them that the bailiffs are acting unlawfully and the police ask them to leave.

Anyway down to the reason for the post. I recently watched an hour long video of Joseph Newman of whom I am sure you are all familiar. First it shows a modern clip of him demonstrating his machine, then it goes in to a documentary that looks like it was made in the mid 80’s about the events of his life. It explains his fight with the patent office, it shows a rather sheepish patent office official who won’t answer questions, it shows seemingly genuine physicists explaining how the machine appears to work, against their better judgment and current physics understanding and it explains how he demonstrated his machine to NASA who were supposedly unable to debunk it.

So my thinking is as follows:

1.   His machine works but the powers that be are deliberately refusing to issue a patent because of the obvious ramifications
2.   Why has no one gone in to mass production if it works?
3.   He may be a fraud and the documentary was a hoax. If this is true why are so many people replicating the machine and why did it cause such a stir in the 80’s if it was that easy to debunk and to what end?

I don’t really know what to think. I am tempted to make one for myself but I’ve seen the sceptics here, the ones who say they have not yet seen any device that produces OU to date. If they are correct then according to the JN documentary they have more experience and expertise than NASA unless of course the documentary was definitely a hoax or deliberately misleading.

I would be grateful of any thoughts on this?

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Joseph Newman Motor
« on: April 30, 2013, 02:42:00 PM »

Offline neomagik

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Re: Joseph Newman Motor
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2013, 02:37:31 PM »
Bump!

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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Joseph Newman Motor
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2013, 03:01:41 PM »
1. The documentary is deliberately misleading.
2. JN is a powerful personality and has essentially bullied his way to a certain "fame" or notoriety.
3. Nobody, not even Joe Himself, has ever shown any overunity performance from a "Newman motor" design.
4. Lots and lots of people have "replicated" Newman motors. They are fun to work with and produce large, extensive magnetic fields that can even wirelessly power other magnet rotors in the vicinity. This is not OU or free energy, though.
5. The sloppy, sparky mechanical commutation that you see Newman using is an essential part of any "Newman motor" and produces lots of RF noise and big inductive spikes from the huge inductance of his motor coils. This complicates measurement of input power to the motor.
6. Newman's own motors are huge, have a lot of rotational inertia. This complicates measurement of the output power of the motor.
7. Electronics and electromechanical devices of a conventional nature are sophisticated and efficient enough so that, in my estimation, a _genuine_ COP of about 1.3 - 1.5 or so should be enough to enable self-looping an electromechanical system, like a motor-generator thing or a spike-siphoner or battery self-charger or such like. COP>2 certainly will allow self-looping of such a system. If you ever see anyone claiming COP>2 for such a system but claiming it can't be self-looped for some reason.... put your wallet back in your pocket and just walk away.
8. Please feel free to prove me wrong. You will need lots and lots of very fine wire and hundreds of 9v batteries, though.

 ;)

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Joseph Newman Motor
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2013, 04:20:40 AM »
Newman seemed a bit shady in presentation. He would show the big monster motor in the background and then hold a AA battery and claim that the input to the motor would be equal to that amount in the single AA battery. Then hold a 9v battery and say similar things. Then when we get to it, he has a gabillion 9v batteries on a panel in series. It might be that some people looking at that, they may have an instilled belief that all those batteries are only delivering 1 battery worth of energy to push that big motor, not really considering the extra initial cost, and that the more that are in series, the higher the voltage, more current pours through them, and very soon the cost of 100 more 9v batteries. Or recharge I suppose.

So lets say there was 100 9v batts. And for giggles they can put out 1amp each. 900watts. Or if we put them in parallel, 9v 100amps, 900watts. I might think that as much water the thing was pumping, 900w could do that conventionally. And a much smaller pump and motor, and a lot less noise. ;)

Not that a 9v batt should be run at 1A continuously, I couldnt imagine any less to get that off balance behemoth to reach warble speed. ;D Its not that bad, but I was waiting for something to blow. I wouldnt want to be near that thing running at full bore.  :o ;)

So when he holds that AA and says that motor is running off of the amount of energy in that single battery, its not a 'small' fib. ;)

Mags


Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Joseph Newman Motor
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2013, 08:41:22 AM »

So when he holds that AA and says that motor is running off of the amount of energy in that single battery, its not a 'small' fib. ;)

Mags





Well said Mags.

Bill

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Joseph Newman Motor
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2013, 08:41:22 AM »
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Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Joseph Newman Motor
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2013, 11:06:31 AM »
Hi folks, Hi neomagik, the catalyst for your brother was his soul (god self), that when awakened within any human, always seeks the truth, no matter how difficult or scary it may be to accept for the earth human mind.
It seems you already have a good idea of what is going on, you will do just fine.
You are going into a good path, even though at times, some will try to take you off the path of truth, some truths are for each individuated expression, some truths are universal in the universe.
May the brightest light, guide your way and everyones.
peace love light
tyson ;)

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Joseph Newman Motor
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2013, 09:04:59 PM »
Hi folks, Hi neomagik, the catalyst for your brother was his soul (god self), that when awakened within any human, always seeks the truth, no matter how difficult or scary it may be to accept for the earth human mind.
It seems you already have a good idea of what is going on, you will do just fine.
You are going into a good path, even though at times, some will try to take you off the path of truth, some truths are for each individuated expression, some truths are universal in the universe.
May the brightest light, guide your way and everyones.
peace love light
tyson ;)

Im not saying dont continue belief in these things. I believe and Im searching. Just this motor, I would not endorse from what I know and see.  When I said a possible 1amp from the 9v batteries and possible input of 900w, well, if you watch the vid, he seems to be concerned about the batteries individually, checking them 1 by 1. Well, if you push them too hard, yeah, better keep an eye on them, especially during a demonstration.  So if the motor actually did not pull much if any current from the batteries, why worry about how the batteries are doing so often? Could they be over charging? He didnt show any proofs of that. He only presents it as a single AA battery pumping all that water, of which cannot happen with what I know so far.  Im always positive when it comes to OU. But these details I bring up on Joes motor should not be neglected.

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Joseph Newman Motor
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2013, 09:04:59 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Joseph Newman Motor
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2013, 09:35:49 PM »
How much is a 9v battery?  $5?  $9?    At $5, thats $500 for 100 of them. $900 for the good ones?  :o

My EZ Spin motor designed by Lasersaber, has 24 coils in series and 15.5kohm total series resistance. 900v/15kohm= 60ma    900v x .06amps= 54watts.  So, Im going to be rigging it up for 200v today and see how it runs. My reeds handle up to 200v but I have some 3in monster reeds Ill dig out for higher voltage testing. Dont know if I will take it to 900v ever, but 100v seems to give it some kick. So 200v will be impressive. ;)

Now consider Joes motor. The thing is as big as a small generator at a coal fired electric plant. 54w?
54w was my tiny motor in comparison with 15kohm load. I wonder what ohm load Joes motor is. If it took more than 54w just to overcome all the loud noise making resistance, then what is left?

So we might have to consider that his coils were less than 15kohm, so more current. Like I said, I think 900w could pump that much water easily. Pool pump is a good example.

Not to say that Joe didnt have belief in this stuff and is a crook, but he has to know the difference between a gabillion 9v batts in series and a single AA batt, and if he doesnt, then all the rest has to be questioned.  ;)

Mags

Offline TechStuf

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Re: Joseph Newman Motor
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2013, 08:40:06 AM »
 
Mags, good observations.
 
I've said it before in this forum, and I'll say it one last time....
 
Get a bicycle wheel.  Attach one end of the axle to a board so that the wheel stands with the axle upright and spins freely in the horizontal plane.  On the rim of the wheel, using the spokes for spacing, mount 12 magnets N side up.  Put one of the magnets obtained at the following link in a small pill bottle, so that it has enough room to bounce around freely:
 
http://www.pushpinmagnets.com/  (they'll even send you a free sample)
 
The 12 agitator magnets should be several times larger than the small induction magnet.  Wrap the pill bottle with magnet wire and connect the ends to an LED.  Place the pill bottle above the rim of the wheel just high enough to work best.  A few tries will find the sweet spot.  Spin the wheel up with a cordless drill or other means, which will spin the wheel at a repeatable starting speed, or use a cheap stroboscope or "light bar" RPM gauge to measure rpms.  Time how long it takes the wheel to stop.  Now do it with the LED assembly away from the wheel.  Once you find the sweet spot, you will also find that sometimes the wheel actually spins LONGER with the LED assembly in place, producing energy.

And that is just ONE LED ASSEMBLY.  You see, when a magnet is situated nearly perpendicular to magnets passing by at the correct distance, one is taking advantage of one of the same principles of spintronics.  Only in a macro environment, by exploiting the flip momentum of the smaller magnet, yet never allowing it to land in a position other than at the semi neutral, near perpendicular position.  Often times the drive magnet below is drawn forward slightly as it approaches the tiny magnet in the pill bottle, then causing the flip as it passes, receiving a kick in the pants on the way by.  Moving on with slightly ADDED momentum.  And it is in this way, using one magnet to leverage another magnet into producing induction, that we are able to double back on "back emf" and limbo right under Lentz' law.  The impressive little "free for all" (pun very much intended) going on in that pill bottle shows how easily a magnet can be made to whip about with relatively little input.  Much like a double pendulum driven mad by gravity.  Only our "gravity" keeps restarting our "pendulum".  There are truly myriad ways of mimicking the dynamics of a simple electric motor, only substituting EM polarity switching with well timed PM pulses via rotary motion.
 
The tiny "pushpin magnet" will buzz around like an angry hornet, generating electricity absolutely free for the taking.  As proven by the fact that the wheel can spin just as long, sometimes longer, than when not generating energy at all.

Try it.  Then ask yourself, "What have I just proven and where can I go from Here?"
 
Like, how many "pill bottles" will it take to power an electric motor to drive the wheel? What are the best magnet size, shape and strength combos?  Is total freedom of movement for the flip magnet best, or gimbaled to a fixed plane or set of planes?  What is the best number of agitator magnets and spacing?  Best number of flip magnets and spacing? Is a larger, heavier flip magnet that flips at slower speeds but with greater kinetic energy beneficial? why or why not?   etc....etc...
 
You will note that the wheel spins quite freely while generating electricity.
 
Have fun.  This little project, though rather simplistic in this test bed form, is so very scalable. There are many, many ways of "putting a harness on the wheelwork of Creation" afterall.
 
 
 
TS
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 11:56:19 AM by TechStuf »

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Joseph Newman Motor
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2013, 04:19:28 PM »
TS:

To someone that's a complete newbie, your explanation may sound quite credible and quite amazing and tantalizing.  If they want to believe then you are giving them hope.

But many people on the forum have built all sorts of similar setups and have a more seasoned view of things and they are not going to buy into what you are saying.  In fact, it's quite easy to rebut what you are saying without stating the obvious - your jumping magnets inside the pill bottles will draw their power from the spinning bicycle wheel and make it spin down faster.

Here is something that even a newbie can relate to:  Instead of tiny button magnets dancing around in a pill bottle, you start with much larger cylinder magnets in much larger containers.  Say the magnets are about one-half inch in diameter.  If you do that spin-down test, then it will clearly become apparent that the bicycle wheel spins down more quickly.  At that point all that you have to do is realize that as you decrease the size of the magnets in the pill bottles, there is no "magical crossover point" where you transition from draining energy from the bicycle flywheel to adding energy to the bicycle flywheel.  It's just not going to happen, people can intuitively understand this.

What will happen if the button magnets in the pill bottles get very small is that the measurements get harder and harder to do.  The effects of the jumping magnets will fall into the "background."  The bicycle wheel spin down time is also affected by things like the air density and viscosity (function of temperature, pressure, and humidity.)  The ambient temperature will also affect the bearings and the grease and as the bicycle wheel spins the bearings will slowly heat up.  So when the effect from the jumping magnets gets very small it is just one of many factors that affect the bicycle wheel spin-down time and they may all be comparable to each other.  So then you have to start doing things like having a system that releases the spinning bicycle wheel at precisely the exact same speed every time and you might have to do 100 spin-downs to calculate the average time it takes, and then add the tiny jumping magnets in their pill cases and do another 100 spin-downs to calculate the average spin-down time and compare.  You have to do both test runs consecutively with the desire to have the ambient air be approximately the same for both test runs.  You also have to do perhaps 50 runs before you even start making measurements to "warm up" the bearings and the grease so the thermal profile for the 100 runs without the jumping magnets and the 100 runs with the jumping magnets is approximately the same.

So the message is that seeing a single longer spin-down time when the effect from the jumping magnets is very tiny is nothing more than anecdotal information.

But the real message is just the simple thought experiment where you start with large jumping magnets and then go to much smaller jumping magnets.  It's something that most if not all people can relate to.  The jumping magnets and the lighting of the LEDs simply causes Lenz drag on the spinning bicycle wheel.  The Lenz drag doesn't magically go away when the jumping magnets get very small.  By the same token, there is no "optimal configuration or combination to hunt for" like you are suggesting.  That's a cliche and I think that most seasoned experimenters will discount that notion.

MileHigh
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 10:58:23 PM by MileHigh »

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Re: Joseph Newman Motor
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2013, 04:19:28 PM »
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Offline TechStuf

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Re: Joseph Newman Motor
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2013, 08:14:37 PM »
Quote
The jumping magnets and the lighting of the LEDs simply causes Lenz drag on the spinning bicycle wheel.

Of course it does.  Whoever said it didn't?  However, at the distance from the copper wiring that the wheel's magnets are stationed, the effect is practically non-existent in comparison to the smaller magnet.  Hence the "limbo under Lentz's law", comment.
 
You know, MileHigh,  you really aren't too bright.  Sorry to rip the Band-Aid so quickly, hope your arm hair's ok.  I think it should be nearly universally obvious by now that, since you say you don't do drugs, seem proud of being prone to flights of fantasy, and gasify the room with all manner of elementary school pontifications and shallow reasoning as to why a thing cannot be done....
 
That you must simply be stuck at that point in your life where you don't know what to do with the inferiority complex stamped across your forehead.
 
The only other explanation, which runs a close second, and perhaps one could run 459 double blind studies in a hermetically sealed room, with 5 hygrometers to constantly monitor the humidity of the air, is that you are just a shill,  assigned to attempt to sway the neophytes away from anything dangerously interesting....
 
In your case it's probably both.  Only you are just acting as a shill in the hopes of attracting "proper" employment.
 
 
TS

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Joseph Newman Motor
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2013, 09:11:03 PM »
Hey Tech

You mean like this?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epWPTeV_544

There was a vid years ago showing a no bearing bedini (sphere on a concave mirror) and a bunch of satellite spinners around it. Like a small room of them.

So I suppose this should be tested. Get a driver going, and start adding satellites with pickup coils and see how loading the satellites affects the driver. If we made a ring of 5 satellites, adding 1 at a time starting with a driver(6 total), I wonder if the last would be out of phase of the driver and what affect it would cause on the system. Or if you just start off with 1 driver and 5 sats in a ring, being the driver would be driving 2 sats on either side of it, would the sat at the opposite end of the ring from the driver be driven as hard as the load imposed on the driver?  Lots to think about.

Mags


Offline TechStuf

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Re: Joseph Newman Motor
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2013, 09:40:17 PM »
 
VERY similar.  Thanks for sharing, hadn't seen that one before!  Only, by letting the "satellite" magnet tumble freely, or nearly so, there are precessional (gyroscopic) forces at work as well.  At the heart of this deceptively simple demonstration is the apparent, if paradoxical, reality that, just as electrons can spin feverishly about several axes, apparently forever, so too can macro objects be made to do so.  Or at least long enough to thoroughly impress.
 
It is astounding to see a wheel turn just as long, sometimes longer, while producing energy, than simply spinning free, with only mechanical and air friction to slow it down.  Obviously, not much would be required to keep the wheel turning....
 
If one is so inclined.
 
 
TS

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Joseph Newman Motor
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2013, 09:41:08 PM »
Mags:

Jonnydavro did a video of his experiments and I think he was the one to come up with this.  (I know he developed the no bearing, one magnet Bedini)  I believe Lidmotor replicated this a few times as well.  (As did I)  I believe, that when you add the coils around the spinning magnet (I only had the materials at that time to try one) the leds light up and the amp draw on the main rotor magnet does not increase.  Now, it may be such a small increase due to lentz that my meters did not pick it up but, it did appear to me that the rotor did not slow and the led "appeared" to light for free.

As MH has stated, stuff like this may be so small in a system with a bunch of other things happening that the theoretical Lentz effect is there but it gets lost as it is so small at this point.  I think Davro had like 5 or 6 coils around his rotor all lighting leds so he should have seen something change as opposed to my single coil.

To me, all of this is so very interesting, which is why I love to try things for myself whenever I can.

One other effect I have noted but never made a video of, is that i bought 6 of those very powerful diametrically opposed neo tube magnets that everyone switched to on these Bedini off-shoots.  They are so strong that I can barely pull them apart where there are stored on my bookshelf.  When my one magnet, no bearing Bedini is running, I discovered that when carrying another of those big neos across the room, I could feel the pulses from the main rotor easily...and I was at least 6 feet away from the running device.  I was always thinking about some type of pizo device with the magnet on a flexible cord flapping back and forth generating electricity as the Bedini no bearing does its thing.  This is a very strong effect that anyone can easily replicate.

Bill

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline TechStuf

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Re: Joseph Newman Motor
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2013, 10:19:09 PM »
Quote
I could feel the pulses from the main rotor easily...and I was at least 6 feet away from the running device.

I know what you mean.  Hanging an N52 2" Neo sphere magnet on a string, poles horizontal, giving it a spin, and watching another hanging at the exact same height nearly eighty feet away, slowly wobble and then start spinning in sync, gives one pause to reflect and contemplate!
 
There are effects in Bedini's setups that seem to run parallel to the Skunkworks' Magnetic beam amplifer.  As some rotary polar interactions approach (and exceed) the frequency of AC current, used in Lockheed's MBA.
 
With the advancements in materials and methods moving as fast as they are today, it appears likely that man has, or will soon, out run his ability to handle it all. 
 
Kind of exciting and sobering at the same time.
 
 
TS
 

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Re: Joseph Newman Motor
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2013, 10:19:09 PM »

 

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