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Author Topic: Resonance and HHO  (Read 51521 times)

Offline MasterPlaster

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Re: Resonance and HHO
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2013, 04:11:43 AM »

@Paul
Here is an interesting summation by Lamar:

http://www.energeticforum.com/108949-post120.html

I am still reading:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Article:Free_Electric_Energy_in_Theory_and_Practice

I know I have paper on the effect of laser on hydrogen production but I can't find it now.
A less relevant article which I am sure will come handy:

The effect of magnetic force on hydrogen production efficiency in water electrolysis
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0360319911023500

Sounds like you nearly got the TPU working. Every utility inherently has dangers associated with it.
Have you never had a paper cut?




Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Resonance and HHO
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2013, 04:11:43 AM »

Offline pauldude000

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Re: Resonance and HHO
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2013, 05:37:54 AM »
@Paul
Here is an interesting summation by Lamar:

http://www.energeticforum.com/108949-post120.html

I am still reading:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Article:Free_Electric_Energy_in_Theory_and_Practice

I know I have paper on the effect of laser on hydrogen production but I can't find it now.
A less relevant article which I am sure will come handy:

The effect of magnetic force on hydrogen production efficiency in water electrolysis
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0360319911023500

Sounds like you nearly got the TPU working. Every utility inherently has dangers associated with it.
Have you never had a paper cut?


It would require a really mean piece of paper to kill a person. The TPU is an inherently unstable device, with undesirable and possibly lethal side effects. Here are two questions for you, just to mess with your head a little. How strong does a magnetic field have to be in gauss for a human being to physically feel the field? How much of a percentage of the human body is iron?


Playing with Nitro is not my idea of fun.


Lamar said Meyer was messing with 1/4 wave... That makes sense. Of all of them I bet his devices then produced the most volume/energy considering his waveform.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline pauldude000

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Re: Resonance and HHO
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2013, 06:02:37 AM »
I know I have paper on the effect of laser on hydrogen production but I can't find it now.
A less relevant article which I am sure will come handy:

The effect of magnetic force on hydrogen production efficiency in water electrolysis
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0360319911023500


Very interesting. I never even considered the magnetic properties of the electrodes themselves as playing a significant part. 304 stainless it is then.


The consideration of the Lorentz force upon things? I need to do more research there. Again, interesting.

Offline wings

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Re: Resonance and HHO
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2013, 07:12:35 AM »
MHD effect


Offline Gwandau

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Re: Resonance and HHO
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2013, 10:54:13 PM »
I am very skeptical of people suddenly jumping in with false knowledge. So the credential of anyone quoted must be verified.

@MasterPlaster,
 
be kind to clarify, has there been anyone in this thread "jumping in with false knowledge"?
 
Cheers,
 
Gwandau

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Resonance and HHO
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2013, 10:54:13 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline MasterPlaster

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Re: Resonance and HHO
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2013, 12:32:39 AM »
@Gwandau, No not yet on this thread but as soon as something positive transpires and the thread becomes popular then you get the know it alls. It is because they read some misinformation somewhere and then states it as a fact elsewhere.


It is fine to put an idea forward as long as the contributer introduces his idea as a theory.
Imagine how many man years has been expended by people trying to replicate Meyer and no one seems to have been successful.
Even some of the giants claiming to have had success show themselves from time to time have never demonstrate anything solid.

This is not to put a negative spin on things. By now someone should have come close to a Puharich or a Meyer system but to my knowledge no one has.







Offline MasterPlaster

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Re: Resonance and HHO
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2013, 12:38:58 AM »
@Paul

With respect to your question, This scene comes to mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbTyTyizz1s !

However, I don't this there is a static magnetic field large enough to cause a hazard to anyone.

The dangers of EM waves are well known but I have a theory that just as there are dangerous EM waves,
there are also beneficial ones. (something along Rifes ideas).


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Resonance and HHO
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2013, 12:38:58 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline MasterPlaster

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Re: Resonance and HHO
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2013, 12:42:42 AM »

Very interesting. I never even considered the magnetic properties of the electrodes themselves as playing a significant part. 304 stainless it is then.


The consideration of the Lorentz force upon things? I need to do more research there. Again, interesting.

The stainless steel tubes that Meyer employed ( 304, but please check) is non magnetic.

Offline pauldude000

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Re: Resonance and HHO
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2013, 01:40:19 AM »
The stainless steel tubes that Meyer employed ( 304, but please check) is non magnetic.


Keep this up and I will consider you my personal encyclopedia! You are proving yourself to be a wealth of good information.

Offline Gwandau

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Re: Resonance and HHO
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2013, 03:12:07 AM »
@MasterPlaster,
 
thanks for clarifying, english is not my native language and this sometimes makes me miss nuances expressed within the context of the sentence.
I totally agree with you, this is a topic of such novel approach that every step taken has to be thoroughly evaluated.
 
Also,  however intriguing the tales of Stan Meyer and Puharich, I would personally actually prefer to start from scratch in order to avoid being mislead. Certain questions always come to me when I watch a video like that of Puharich. If he really had reached the point of fully being able to fission water at a COP= 1.2 as he claims, why doesn't he demonstrate his apparatus in action? I myself would have had a propane engine running right there on the table, HHO-fueled through the water splitter by a transparent water tank from which I repeatedly would drink a glass of water during my speech.
 
No, I am not convinced that he had reached all the way to this goal. Still I believe he possessed critical and unparallelled knowledge about the vulnerability dynamics of the water molecule bonds and possibly had achieved partial success to a degree convincing enough to motivate him going public.
 

@pauldude000, MastePlaster and all interested:
 
As a product developer in the surface coating industry since many years I am well aware of the magnitude of energy easily spent on wrong leads and have learned to regard the quality of rigorous method as absolutely essential when approaching uncharted areas.
 
Since we are approaching the water fission quest with the aim of using novel low energy keys instead of the old fashioned brute energy wasting force applied through ortodox electrolysis and the like, we have first of all to study and learn everything there is known today about the water molecule, from its three dimensional behaviour in its normal liquid state, to its appearance and behaviour in any of its extremes.
 
Did you know that water has several solid phases far above the freezing point when subjected to certain pressures?
 
quote: "Interestingly, at high pressures (~ 2.3 GPa), liquid water can be made to freeze at over 100 °C "   ( http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/ice_vii.html )

What I mean is, instead of running ahead in the initial inspiration and start doing experiments and most likely get lost in the massive magnitude of parameters sooner or later making us give up like the rest of the guys who have tried this before us, we should approach the structuration of implementation slowly like a cat moving towards its prey. I know it is extremely fun to start doing experiments, but I am afraid any premature actions just is a waste of energy making us into just another failure in the long row of failures evident before us.

 
Step one is to define the main parameters to be studied and explored.  What are the main parameters to take into consideration and study?

Below I have some suggestions, but they are far from complete, so I welcome anyone interested in helping to add anything you think is important.
 

Main Parameters:
 
1. The three dimensional dynamics of water molecule bonds.  (As far as I am concerned, this is absolutely essential to understand in depht.)
 
2. The applied set of frequencies and their geometry based upon the above dynamics,  and the possible use of carrier waves.
 
3. Design of the reaction chamber and frequncy transmitter.
 
 
Gwandau
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Resonance and HHO
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2013, 03:12:07 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline pauldude000

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Re: Resonance and HHO
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2013, 06:34:36 AM »
As a product developer in the surface coating industry since many years I am well aware of the magnitude of energy easily spent on wrong leads and have learned to regard the quality of rigorous method as absolutely essential when approaching uncharted areas.
 
Since we are approaching the water fission quest with the aim of using novel low energy keys instead of the old fashioned brute energy wasting force applied through ortodox electrolysis and the like, we have first of all to study and learn everything there is known today about the water molecule, from its three dimensional behaviour in its normal liquid state, to its appearance and behaviour in any of its extremes.


.......

What I mean is, instead of running ahead in the initial inspiration and start doing experiments and most likely get lost in the massive magnitude of parameters sooner or later making us give up like the rest of the guys who have tried this before us, we should approach the structuration of implementation slowly like a cat moving towards its prey. I know it is extremely fun to start doing experiments, but I am afraid any premature actions just is a waste of energy making us into just another failure in the long row of failures evident before us.

 
Step one is to define the main parameters to be studied and explored.  What are the main parameters to take into consideration and study?

Below I have some suggestions, but they are far from complete, so I welcome anyone interested in helping to add anything you think is important.
 

Main Parameters:
 
1. The three dimensional dynamics of water molecule bonds.  (As far as I am concerned, this is absolutely essential to understand in depht.)
 
2. The applied set of frequencies and their geometry based upon the above dynamics,  and the possible use of carrier waves.
 
3. Design of the reaction chamber and frequncy transmitter.
 
 
Gwandau


Gwandau, you make some very good points. The concept is a simple one. Either we play to win, or we play to fail. Accidentally succeeding is just that, namely an accident, and does not work most of the time. Now, lets address your parameters you put forth.


Quote
1. The three dimensional dynamics of water molecule bonds.


Absolutely. Everything that is known about the bonds could prove invaluable information. I would actually expand the parameter to:


"What is known about the water molecule and it's bonds which applies to electricity or resonance in general, including but not limited to mechanical, electrical, and electromagnetic."


Any information about 'interesting' events noted during studies or experiments are often overlooked and relegated to 'interesting but irrelevant'. All too often these are huge clues. The research should have its focus placed upon resonance, bond strength, bond shape, reaction of bonds to outside stimuli, etc..


However, we can go so far afield in that the project gets buried in research as well, so we need to limit the focus to our approach.
 
Quote
2. The applied set of frequencies and their geometry based upon the above dynamics,  and the possible use of carrier waves.

The frequencies are actually going to be the easy part. Don't sound shocked as this is realistically no different than designing an antenna. Delivery system, efficiency, device design, etc., are going to be the hard parts. I want to keep the design as K.I.S.S. as possible for repeat-ability purposes. (Keep It Simple Stupid) Using K.I.S.S. also tends to keep old man Murphy as far away as possible.

Quote
3. Design of the reaction chamber and frequncy transmitter.


This is where we are going to have no choice but experiment. For instance, a resonance chamber may enhance resonance at various frequencies, but kill a crucial one. We cannot ASSUME that any one concept or approach is going to be inherently better than another without actual evidence or at least logical reason.


Until we know the frequencies, the rest has to necessarily be on hold. There should be a different set of frequencies also depending upon the necessary wavelength parameter we find as effectual. For instance, if 1/4 wave is actually (my current guess) the most destructive towards the bonds, then that is the frequency set we need. However, we may find that 1/2, 1, 1/3 or even 2/3 wavelength resonance is necessary, and each will have it's own set of frequencies. I am going to do a workup of ALL these type of resonance, so that we have a list of frequencies available to cover all possible eventualities.


As the molecule has a "V" shape, we may find that we have to treat it as one half turn of a coil.... which changes the wavelength once again. We may have to hit the molecule with a frequency to impart energy and strain the bonds, and another to break the weakened bonds. We may just have to hit it with a sharp pulse at the resonant frequency.


The methodical well thought out approach will definitely provide the largest chance of success. Documentation is also going to be the key. Therefore I add to your list of parameters:


4. Document everything in a lab journal. "Interesting observations", successes, and failures all matter.


Three things make for an "interesting observation". Nothing happens where something should happen. Something happens where nothing should happen. Something totally unexpected happens.








Offline pauldude000

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Re: Resonance and HHO
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2013, 07:53:55 AM »
This may be old hat to everyone, but I will post it just in case:


275 picometers in length for the extended water molecule. That means that 275 picometers is the resonant wavelength right?


WRONG!


275 picometers is the length of the ANTENNA. There are THREE main resonant frequencies for any antenna.


If we treat it as a 1/4 wave dipole, then the resonant wavelength is  1100 picometers
If we treat it as a 1/2 wave antenna then the resonant wavelength is 550 picometers
If we treat it as a FULL wave antenna then the resonant wavelength is actually 275 picometers


Using 1/2 resonance places all of the energy at the center of the antenna. Using 1/4 places all of the energy at one end. Using full wave places the energy into two nodes 1/4 of the distance from either end. 


To figure third wave resonance is more complicated. 1/3 and 2/3 resonance are inherently destructive, since they are oh-so close to resonant wavelength and just off Q, but not actually resonant with the antenna. 


Here is our problem. Frequency wise there is NO way to approach it directly. Why?


f = c/h (lambda)


where:


f = frequency in Hz
c = speed of light
h = wavelength


The frequency is  1.0902e+9 GIGAhertz (1,090,200,000 GHz)!!!


I do not know about you, but I know of no resonator on earth capable of such a high frequency as 1 billion Gigahertz, or 1.0902 Exahertz. We have to treat it as either a harmonic or as a subharmonic.


We are talking orders of magnitude higher frequency than the shortest wavelength of visible light, in the Exahertz range. In other words 1.0902 X 10^18 Hz which just so happens to be dead center of the X-ray band. Thankfully this is FULL wavelength.


At 1/4 wavelength or 1100pM: 2.7254e+8 Ghz : 2.7254 X 10^17 Hz : 1/4 the way into the X-ray band. I was hoping for ultraviolet, but no go.


Consider buying some lead... (I am not joking. Lead sheet at least 1/8" thick.)


If I manage this sub-harmonic, the device WILL put off some X-rays. Hopefully not too many, which I doubt anyway as the power will only be in the Micro-watts or less so far off of main input frequency. Better safe than sorry.


We are going to have no choice but aim for the high kilohertz range for individual pulse power, but remain outside the magahertz range as Xl and Xc are going to prevent the sudden discharges needed. We have to create one HUGE chain of harmonics, which will create their own sub-harmonics, etc... Whole frequency, as it will still be a beast to tune even so. It will have to be PRECISELY on frequency, otherwise the sub-harmonics will not even be close.


Oh boy. What am I getting myself into?


WOW. Started this post off great, then ended thinking to myself.









Offline murmel

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Re: Resonance and HHO
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2013, 08:38:15 AM »

Offline pauldude000

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Re: Resonance and HHO
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2013, 09:39:00 AM »
The is the resonant principle that Tesla used. It was based upon wave energy at a given point. When I talk about resonance, it is based upon this model. When a quarter wavelength antenna is properly designed to work at Q, the signal rebounds four times in the coil. The energy at one end will first go maximum positive, then to zero, then to maximum negative, then back to zero.


You will notice if you trace the antenna with your finger that it does the reverse at the other end of the antenna. This applies asymmetrical energy charge to the antenna. You should also easily recognize the energy problems with the other antennas. A symmetrical charge model is stable. An asymmetrical charge model is unstable and provides unbalanced localized energy which can be harvested or used, or which will build until something breaks down. In the case of a Tesla coil, the air surrounding the terminal.


Most Tesla coil builders actually design the coil bass akwards. They wind a coil to find out what frequency they want (Always thinking full wave and talking 1/4 or 1/2) based upon the inductance of the coil they just built. They then choose a capacitor, and try to tune the circuit, and wonder why it doesn't produce much energy.


In most cases I have seen, the coil length is designed for a kilohertz use, and it was formed into a megahertz resonator. Tesla figured the length of wire first as a 1/4 wavelength, then wound it on a form to achieve a certain inductance and matched the capacitor/inductance for the design frequency.


We need to think resonance first, then design to match.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline pauldude000

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Re: Resonance and HHO
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2013, 03:24:16 AM »
http://www.globalkast.com/


Would be interesting except all of the video links are non-functional. 404 error.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Resonance and HHO
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2013, 03:24:16 AM »

 

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