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Author Topic: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!  (Read 49805 times)

Dave45

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #60 on: January 29, 2013, 12:07:06 AM »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #60 on: January 29, 2013, 12:07:06 AM »

Online wattsup

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #61 on: January 31, 2013, 06:44:50 AM »
@ismael_34

Thank you very much for your post. I have prepared a post for @MH and @others so I will post it and then you may see some answers in there that Tesla maybe did not consider at the time. I have a lot to say bout DC and AC but starting with a battery and short circuit was the best place to start and your post is just right on the subject. Thanks again.

@MH and @all

Thanks again for your comments. As I said before, it is like gold bars being pulled from the EE perspective shelf, but we have to assume that not all gold is 99% pure and therefore we have to question everything. There is a sort of categorical assumption wanting to say "That's just the way it is - accept it and move on".

I did not really want to delve that much on @TK's HV wire burst because I have no way right now to video the same event in high speed, thus I have no way to confirm the actual effect. I will get around to that eventually. I have to see it happen.

What I would prefer is to concentrate on my last post and images of the 14 awg wire. As I have shown, the energy dispersion on the wire is not homogenous as one would expect if electricity was traveling in one direction as we have seen so many times in animations. This basic notion does not make any sense at all if you compare this to anything else we know about electricity and magnetism.

Look here at this video explaining the present EE standard of "current flow".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Oul4S2wfCk

What I am trying to do is go beyond this and ask some pointed questions and try to find somewhere where the standard EE is proven to a level that is irrefutable. So far I have not found anything. All I see is the standard "accept this as we tell you and don't ask questions". Seems like another form of religion where we are asked to believe in something that is unseen, unheard, unobservable but regardless of the great lack of evidence, you must believe this is how it works when you see it on the scope or through your volt meter.

So maybe we all need to tip our perspective a little to the middle of the road here and play the midway advocates. I know it is not easy but just consider that all those that came before us were not Gods. They were all people that had the same limitations as you and I and they all tried to make heads or tales of the EE phenomena in a way that they could wrap their brains around and produce a working society. EE works, regardless of how it is really working, it works, so I think this is the main hold back to advancing or if that is not the right word, going deeper into the actual function of electricity.

Example: Consider with an open mind that the magnetic field (MF) present around an energized coil is produced in one of two ways.

1) The MF is produced by the coils ability to expel internal magnetic flux.

Or...

2) The MF is produced by the coils ability to attract and concentrate exterior magnetic flux.

So..... the MF can come from inside the coil going outwards or from outside the coil going inwards.

Now you can go through all the known EE standards and in all cases, both of these possible MF reasons will always be valid. But EE only considers the first when curiously the second one will explain much more of the EE phenomena if you are looking to work in OU.

Put it this way, right now there is no generalized OU device in the world. One day there will be. On that day and thereafter, a new EE phenomena called OU will be introduced to the the EE standard and EE guys will have to wrap their heads around it or become EE dinosaurs or Level 1 functionals. But the guys doing OU research right now need to wrap their heads around it before it is realized. That's what researchers do. So to be totally honest with the eventual OU phenomena, guys needs to think in what I would call "Bimodal EE (or BEE for short)". If you are a standard die-hard EEer, there is no point working in OU. Why would you? It's impossible, or is it? That is the question. hehehe

Question: #1

You have a toroidal core. You wrap two primaries of 180 degrees on the coil. Then you wrap two secondaries, one over each primary. So you pulse the primary. Why is it that the outer wrapped secondary,

- that is layered  further from the core then the primary, and,
- that has an energized primary between the secondary and the core, and,
- in which the primary is actually working like a quasi cloaking device between the secondary and the core,

... can this secondary coil still output impressed power. Where did that power come from?

Did it come from the primary expelling a field into the core that then goes back outwards through the primary to transfer to the secondary plus the fact that the primary will also expel directly into the secondary, or, is it because the primary is energized over the core making the primary seem to have more energized mass drawing in more ether towards the primary and core to produce a MF that transfers onto the secondary that is conveniently wrapped on the outside, so first in line to the impress. Both effects 1 and 2 would be valid in the way we see coil exchange occur.

So again here the flux origin can come from choice 1 or 2. So why are we all dumbed down on one possibility when there really exists two? Both just as plausible and both can comply with already achieved EE standards. Who knows, there could even be a third or fourth possibility.

Think of any effect you have done and both 1 or 2 is plausible. Sometimes the theory finds only one possibility as a source, but sometimes the theory will find two. If our present EE is based on the first theory and it has gotten us this far, then maybe the second will get us even further.

I am not talking about changing EE standards for students looking to work in electronics to design the next iPod. I am talking about expanding the EE standards for OUers only. They are the ones who will push to the next level. The rest of the world does not have to bother with BEE and can continue to live and work in the uni-directional safe zone. BEE will give guys more perspectives and tools to push their experiments more out of the box.

I am not even asking you yourself to espouse the BEE method or call it what you want. Some will call it Bull I know, but that's OK too. If the bull comes from a smart reflection, great. If it comes from malice, not great, but that's the way forums go. Anyways, I am just calling it BEE to give it some form.

Consider that most present technology is, to a good extent, doomed by its past. We say we walk on the shoulders of great men but we also run with their mistakes and oversights and darn trickery. They were not perfect then and we are not perfect today.

When the first coil was energized and the compass needle moved, someone first decided that the effect was caused by a field expelled by the coil. On that same day, if that same person said instead that the energized coil attracts or causes an over concentration of Ambient Ether Field (AEF), we would all have thought today that the coils field comes from outside the coil going inwards.

Before a coil is energized it is like a rock, or a piece of metal or anything else matter can make. Once it is energized it comes alive and this attracts the ether around it to compress more on the source of this energization. Do you realize how this impacts coil winding strategies. hehehe

But there is so much more. We are not only fighting to work against our own ignorance but we must realize we are also have to fight against a new world order that will keep us ignorant at all cost.

Thinking of the post made by @ismael_34, Tesla had a damn hard time trying to figure out why he was getting spiked even when the short was inside a Faraday cage. How is it possible? So what if the spike comes from outside the cage going towards the shorting impact and passes through everything in line of sight including anyone standing remotely near the impact source. Tesla was so adamant that the spikes came from the source and this was his only consideration while ether was trying to tell him "hey man, look behind you".

Question: You have the power of the gods in your hand. You are out in space where there is no star to be seen. With the flick of your finger (or the twitch of your nose) you create a gigantic star from nothing then into existence. Enumerate all the forces this will create and effects it will have in the stars vicinity. Can these forces correlate with Tesla creating a sudden gigantic spark. Can a spark be considered a fledgling star? Can an energized coil be considered a fledgling spark. So can an energized coil be considered the first step towards becoming a star attracting to it so much ether energy. Throughout most all of the universe we have ether just waiting to pounce on any sign of life. We have ether in us. We are all only 2% away from being ether. We are alive. We take totally inanimate objects and energize them and we change that ether neglecting object into an ether attracting powerhouse. One little coil was always off and as soon as it is on, it receives ethers undivided attention.

I saw this the other day and realized a connection. Consider it is winter and a frozen icicle that is stuck to your car. You are driving around and the icicle will not fall or melt or weaken. The damn thing is stubbornly holding on to that fender and away you go. I realized that the faster the car goes, the colder the icicle gets and the harder it holds in place. I saw this on so many cars while driving to work and was just amazed that the winter cold was always surrounding the icicle and giving it strength to withstand its perilous travels. I was even rooting for them. We are the icicle and our cold is ether.

I'll stop here or this post can go with 200 more lines easy.

More to come.

wattsup


Offline Gwandau

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #62 on: January 31, 2013, 10:57:41 PM »
Excellent post, wattsup.
 
Your point of view is exactly what is needed to ascend to a higher level of understanding, and this "outside the box" project of yours is truly inspiring.
 
Mankind quite naturally tend to base the initial interpretation of any observed phenomenon by relating it to our "database" of common sensory input, but the appearance of anything observed is bound to change with perspective. So what seems like solid facts on one level naturally will appear as incorrect information seen from a wider perspective. And the beauty of it all is that there is no final truth, there is no end to understanding in an infinite universe.

If our present EE is based on the first theory and it has gotten us this far, then maybe the second will get us even further.

This is what it is all about.

Gwandau

Online MileHigh

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #63 on: February 01, 2013, 05:58:29 AM »
Wattsup:

Quote
What I would prefer is to concentrate on my last post and images of the 14 awg wire. As I have shown, the energy dispersion on the wire is not homogenous as one would expect if electricity was traveling in one direction as we have seen so many times in animations. This basic notion does not make any sense at all if you compare this to anything else we know about electricity and magnetism.

Not sure why you would say that the energy dispersion in the wire is not homogenous.

With respect to your comments about coils and magnetic fields, it all stems from what a magnetic field looks like around a wire with DC current going though it.  A coil is just an extension of that concept.  The simplest inductor is just a small piece of straight wire.

In engineering, you can often work with slight abstractions.  Yes a coil can produce a magnetic field or react to an external magnetic field.  But for energy accounting purposes, we realized that all you need to know is the inductance value and the current flow through an inductor to work with it and use it.  Just like people never talk about the electric field associated with a capacitor and the collapse of the electric field as the capacitor discharges.

Then you factor in the fact that we discovered that in Nature energy and power are always associated with the product of two variables.  So we have two electrical variables, and two variables for various physical systems, and so on.  So it turns out that Nature is acting the same way energy-wise for different "energy systems."  They are so similar that it's uncanny.  We figure the same thing is the reality throughout the Universe.

So with this perspective, one of the points of view might be to look at how these two variables interact and try to see if there might be any remarkable differences with other energy systems and without wanting to split quantum hairs, they are not different.

And perhaps to distill this down and crystalise it down to a simple example, the coil behaving just like a flywheel.  So you can imagine a flywheel spinning up and spinning down, no magic there.  You can see and feel it and there is no surprise in how it behaves.

Now, here is a simple test to see if you can visualize this:  Thing of the main coil in a Bedini motor (not the pick-up coil).  How do you visualize a flywheel acting like the coil in a Bedini motor acts?

Again, as a reminder, we are concerned with power and energy, and we are not concerned at all about the magnetic field.  Instead of worrying about the magnetic field, we use the measure of current flow instead because that's tangible and we can measure it and the current flow and the magnetic are inextricably linked to each other and are essentially the same thing.

So can anybody answer the question?  It's important to stress this is not some stupid pop quiz.  If you are interested in electronic circuits and energy then you should be able to visualize this.  And if you can indeed visualize this then it may help demystify this notion that coils are "aether antennas" or however you want to term it.

Finally, nobody is suggesting that you don't take your intellectual journey as per the theme of this thread.  But you will be that much wiser if you can look at a Bedini motor and visualize what Nature is doing on an electrical level.

MileHigh


Online wattsup

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #64 on: February 04, 2013, 09:00:12 PM »
@MH

Thanks for your comments. Let me answer them in your post in bold.

Wattsup:

Not sure why you would say that the energy dispersion in the wire is not homogenous.

You are right, I did not put more precision because of post lengths. Not homogeneous in the first instance before the wire becomes completely hot. I am not looking for the hot part but the build up before the hot part. If electricity is moving from a to b at XX speed, so fast, then I should not have seen any build up because of the speed and just seen a blackening going from left to right, not a blackening as we see from both ends towards the center. If action is reaction then the wire is telling us exactly what is going on.

With respect to your comments about coils and magnetic fields, it all stems from what a magnetic field looks like around a wire with DC current going though it.  A coil is just an extension of that concept.  The simplest inductor is just a small piece of straight wire.

In engineering, you can often work with slight abstractions.  Yes a coil can produce a magnetic field or react to an external magnetic field.  But for energy accounting purposes, we realized that all you need to know is the inductance value and the current flow through an inductor to work with it and use it.  Just like people never talk about the electric field associated with a capacitor and the collapse of the electric field as the capacitor discharges.

I know all about that, but the simple wire being a coil is going to do the same thing the simple wire does and that is with battery DC, it will advance from both polarities into the center of the coil (blotch). The blotch itself is the result of two advancing polarities canceling themselves. For pulsing, this provides so many new ways of thinking about coils. It is not merely positive to negative or negative to positive but negative and positive to blotch. Once this perspective becomes more known and experiments are designed in that line of thinking, maybe we can win against what I have already called "Half Coil Syndrome". The syndrome is because of the perspective because if you realize this perspective, you will start working out coiling to counter it. This is good for OUers.  .


Then you factor in the fact that we discovered that in Nature energy and power are always associated with the product of two variables.  So we have two electrical variables, and two variables for various physical systems, and so on.  So it turns out that Nature is acting the same way energy-wise for different "energy systems."  They are so similar that it's uncanny.  We figure the same thing is the reality throughout the Universe.

So with this perspective, one of the points of view might be to look at how these two variables interact and try to see if there might be any remarkable differences with other energy systems and without wanting to split quantum hairs, they are not different.

And perhaps to distill this down and crystalise it down to a simple example, the coil behaving just like a flywheel.  So you can imagine a flywheel spinning up and spinning down, no magic there.  You can see and feel it and there is no surprise in how it behaves.

The only reason we see the product of two variables is that we use volt meters that can only see the potential difference between any two points. This gives us absolutely no way of knowing what is really going on inside our systems in a visual or intuitive sense. We spend our days talking about voltage and current. It feels like we are doctors of the King working in the dark ages. We check what the king eats and what the king expels to consider his current state of health. But be have no idea whatsoever what is really going on inside the Kings' body. Volts and amps. We have a defintiion for them but both these definitions are so counter intuitive that they may as well be a totally foreign concept because most guys just cannot wrap their heads around it in a pragmatic way. What I would like to do in these threads in give some bulk to these notions, give them some character. You know when something is wrong and you cannot put your finger on the cause of so many problems and then, one day the linking solution dawns on you and you start to see everything just falls into place. This is where I am at right now and I will try to explain these slowly so each aspect can take its rightful place in a fully conceptualized working of electricity. I do not see a coil behaving like a flywheel because the coil is just a wire and if the wire cannot act like a flywheel why should the coil?

The way I see electricity in a wire is so different to present day accepted concepts because I need to see it in my minds eye interacting in the wire or coil and present day concepts just create so much cloudiness that guys just try to accept things as they are purported.

The way I see electricity in a wire is simple and has to do with each and every atom inside the copper mass making up this linear copper or other conductive ridden object. So I will say some here as a preamble because this concept needs to be so well described that I am not really ready to explain it in a totally dumbed down manner.

To just get some idea, consider that the copper atom is a magnet so your wire is chock full of tiny magnets. Now think of each magnet (atom) as being suspended in a gyroscopic mechanism that is comprised of their outer shell electrons which hold each atom in a three dimensional physical space between all other atoms that are dong the same.

So let's just say you had five magnets and for our sake here, each magnet is placed in a gyroscopic mechanism and all five are tightly held together so each magnet can move in any degree or angle. When the magnets are at rest they are all aligned to the Earth field. But now I approach one of the end magnets with a much larger magnet in my hand and as this larger magnet comes near the 1st magnet, the 1st magnet starts to turn towards my hand held magnet and this makes the 2nd, 3rd 4th and 5th magnets turn as well. It is as if once the first magnet turns, the others follow right away in kind. Now when I change the hand held magnet to point with the other polarity the 5 magnets turn in the opposite way in succession. By changing the hand held magnets pointing polarity the 5 magnets are reacting in kind and when it is done in the right cadence, the 5 magnets start turning and turning. Now think that I have a second held held magnet in my other hand that I approach to the 5th magnet side. So I turn the 1st magnet side CW and the 5th magnet side CCW. Now the 1st and 2nd magnets are turning CW and the 4th and 5th magnets are turning CCW and the 3rd magnet located in the center is not turning at all. In a nutshell, for me, this is what is happening inside our wires and coils.

The hand held magnets are our power sources and these power sources just make our wire atoms turn and turn by what I simply call  "Spin Conveyance" (SC). If you Google "spin convenyance", you fill not find much so this confirms to me that this is new enough.

By this visualization, voltage is simply the speed of spin and amperage is the number of atoms that are actually spinning in the conveyance. This simply means that if you have a thick wire and you apply a thin wire to it as a power source, only the diameter of the thin wire will be spinning in the thick wire since the thin wire regulates the maximum amperage available to the thick wire, and the voltage of the thin source wire will regulate the speed of spin of the copper atoms. When I look at electricity in this manner, ever effect in OU or standard EE all starts making so much sense.

Voltage = Speed of SC,
Amperage = Percentage of conductive mass in conveyance.

This explains much more directly why.....

Wire heats up - spin creates friction,
Coil losses - spin engenders slippage.

Everything we deal with regarding the generation of electricity involves spin. We take an inner rotor magnet and an outer stator coil. The magnet turns and turns and turns. At each turn of the rotor, the atoms inside the stator spin to agree with the changing rotor polarities. The speed of spin (voltage) and the strength (amperage) of spin are available at the ends of each stator coil as a power source or atomic spin source. When we connect a coil to that power source now the atoms in the coil are spinning as well. If we put a light bulb on the power source, both leads are spinning one CW and the other CCW and the filament in the center receives both spin directions and creates friction and light.

All we are doing is transferring atomic spin momentum via SC and all our effects can be explained by this one simple attribute of electricity.

Some will ask, if electricity is SC, how can you explain the diode. Well the diode no longer becomes our favorite analog as a check-valve. It changes to become a one way ratchet. Since the one way ratchet can only turn in one direction, this creates the illusion of being like a check valve that perpetuates the illusion of electricity as having a single directionality. Several times in past posts I have eluded to why we only have positive diodes when electricity should also be controlled with negative diodes since if you can make a one way ratchet turning CW, you can also make one that will turn CCW.

Wow, sounds like the crazy ranting of a madman, but then why does it all fit into what we see.

Now, here is a simple test to see if you can visualize this:  Thing of the main coil in a Bedini motor (not the pick-up coil).  How do you visualize a flywheel acting like the coil in a Bedini motor acts?

Again, as a reminder, we are concerned with power and energy, and we are not concerned at all about the magnetic field.  Instead of worrying about the magnetic field, we use the measure of current flow instead because that's tangible and we can measure it and the current flow and the magnetic are inextricably linked to each other and are essentially the same thing.

So can anybody answer the question?  It's important to stress this is not some stupid pop quiz.  If you are interested in electronic circuits and energy then you should be able to visualize this.  And if you can indeed visualize this then it may help demystify this notion that coils are "aether antennas" or however you want to term it.

At this stage of the thread I do not think it is time to actually look at a given device. There are so many more effects to understand in a stand alone way before we can start looking at a complete system. I don't think Bedini knows enough about electricity himself to teach us how to get to the next level. I myself may be wrong in the above but I am exercising the level of out-of-the box thinking always being concerned with the theory being correlative to the observations we already see in our effects. Bedini will not teach us this, It will only confuse the issues I am trying to discuss here as I am trying to offer not "The Way" but a practical way of thinking out of the box. Bedini will only offer you a way to get to his level of present day checkmate and that is not where I want to go with this.

Finally, nobody is suggesting that you don't take your intellectual journey as per the theme of this thread.  But you will be that much wiser if you can look at a Bedini motor and visualize what Nature is doing on an electrical level.

Phew, I am glad to read your last sentence as this is not easy for me to open up. I am not saying I am 100% right or wrong. Guys in the future will know more about this then I ever will but I only want here to be able to at least point to a different horizon and walk towards that hilltop. These new ideas will maybe help get across what Tesla may not have been able to get across at his time. When DC was the ruling force, it must have been very troublesome for Tesla to introduce the idea of AC as a better method of mass electricity generation. Since DC and AC, we have nothing. I am sure Tesla was never 100% satisifed with AC and that is why his later works involved so many other disciplines as being his untendered way of looking for something more intuitive. 

MileHigh
/quote]

More to come.

wattsup




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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #64 on: February 04, 2013, 09:00:12 PM »
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Online MileHigh

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #65 on: February 05, 2013, 06:16:54 AM »
Hey Wattsup:

You certainly have an interesting theory and good luck running with it.  You know how hard-core intellectual mathematicians spend months and months developing theories and mathematical proofs to solve all sorts of theoretical mathematical problems.  It's a big deal.

I am too tired to comment on your posting but I will later.

But just for fun here are two classic circuitry examples for you to ponder with respect to your model and how it fits in.

You have two ideal inductors of equal value.  Imagine one has one ampere of DC current circulating through it, and we put a ground reference on the left terminal of this coil.  Call it "coil1."  So the coil is in a closed loop with one amp of current flowing through it.  Initially the second coil is simply disconnected.  Then imagine then we add the second coil in series with the first coil, we "switch it in" to the single ideal coil circuit instantly.  So we have this:  Ground - coil1 - coil2 - back to ground.  Also, there is no magnetic coupling at all between the two coils.  In the real world on the bench you put the two coils at right angles to each other to have near-zero coupling.  Before and after the spike the voltage at the junction point is zero volts.

What happens at the the moment the "switch in" happens?  The answer is that the current instantly drops to 0.7071 amp (for ideal coils).  And the potential measured at the connection point between the two coils goes infinitely high for an infinitely short amount of time.

With non-ideal coils in a real-world circuit on the bench, the current will also nearly instantly drop to perhaps a little bit less than 0.7071 amp.  At the connection point between the two coils, the voltage will shoot up in a spike to hundreds or perhaps even thousands of volts.  The pulse width will be very narrow, and the higher the voltage spike, the narrower the pulse will be.

Anyway, that might be interesting for you to contemplate with respect to your theoretical model!

MileHigh
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 08:42:50 PM by MileHigh »

Online MileHigh

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #66 on: February 06, 2013, 06:28:33 AM »
Wattsup:

Quote
Not homogeneous in the first instance before the wire becomes completely hot. I am not looking for the hot part but the build up before the hot part. If electricity is moving from a to b at XX speed, so fast, then I should not have seen any build up because of the speed and just seen a blackening going from left to right, not a blackening as we see from both ends towards the center. If action is reaction then the wire is telling us exactly what is going on.

Each end of the wire is attached to a large mass of metal acting as a heat sink.  So the heat being produced in the ends of the wire is flowing into the set of heatsinks.  That explains the blackening from both ends towards the center.  The center of the wire is farthest away from the heatsinks so it gets hotter.  So the wire itself is dissipating even heat all along the wire.

Quote
the simple wire being a coil is going to do the same thing the simple wire does and that is with battery DC, it will advance from both polarities into the center of the coil (blotch). The blotch itself is the result of two advancing polarities canceling themselves.

This is probably a whole other discussion.  There is no Bloch wall in an air coil or solid-filled coil or a bar magnet.  I don't know if your model expects this but if it does then you have a problem if you accept what I am saying.  This one is a quite popular misconception.

Quote
We have a defintiion for them but both these definitions are so counter intuitive that they may as well be a totally foreign concept because most guys just cannot wrap their heads around it in a pragmatic way.

That's where the mechanical analogies can come into play to help visualize and understand but unfortunately you don't seem to want to go there.  It's all quite clear to me.

Quote
I do not see a coil behaving like a flywheel because the coil is just a wire and if the wire cannot act like a flywheel why should the coil?

It's the empty space within and around the coil that is like an invisible flywheel.  They behave identically to each other if you take an appropriate frame of reference for each case.

Quote
Wire heats up - spin creates friction,
Coil losses - spin engenders slippage.

I am surprised that you say this.  When you say "coil losses" don't you mean the resistive losses in the coil?  That would be the same as the wire heating up, no?

Quote
Some will ask, if electricity is SC, how can you explain the diode.

It's holes and electrons being pushed around by the electric field on the dance floor.  If the electric field goes one way, the holes and electrons are like wall flowers on opposite sides of room.  If the electric field goes the other way, then the electrons and the holes race towards each other and annihilate each other at the center of the dance floor like some sort of insane mosh pit.

Quote
Wow, sounds like the crazy ranting of a madman, but then why does it all fit into what we see.

I love "B" and "D" schlocky sci-fi and exploitation movies from the 50s and 60s.  Check out the Internet Movie Database Bottom 100.

Quote
When DC was the ruling force, it must have been very troublesome for Tesla to introduce the idea of AC as a better method of mass electricity generation.

Edison pushed for his crappy DC because he wanted to make money off of it.  I seem to recall that he also didn't even understand AC.  Thinner wires are cheaper wires and AC won.

Good luck with the model and the intellectual journey.  You know what Bette Davis said.

MileHigh

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #66 on: February 06, 2013, 06:28:33 AM »
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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #67 on: February 11, 2013, 04:31:15 PM »
@MH

Thanks again for your comments. I will be talking about series coils soon enough but we are not there yet. I am afraid I have not been a good host these days because of work and family overload.

Please understand that what I am trying to do is like putting an image covered with many blank cards on the table and taking out one card at a time to show more of the image. It is hard to get the complete picture at this stage. Once I get through the other effects, it should start making sense to many.

I am not asking you to espouse anything here but your sounding board is fantastic. I know it is intellectually hard to take grasp of and for you to post but you are not obliged. It is very challenging for me as well and very energy consuming because I usually reread my posts a good 10 times. I can take this along slowly as she goes and whenever you feel like it, please let's talk more. I will not always reply to your comments to not break the flow but your interjections are very welcome at all times.

@all

I am looking at this in the sense that I am looking for over unity. The Standard EE Model (or SEEM for short) has no room for OU at this time. Not even on the top dusty shelf of the EE archives. So what I am looking for is why and where in the SEEM should there be a place for OU. To do that, you need to turn over every leaf, every shred and ask yourself why is it like that. While you do that, you will start to develop a critical thinking mode to correlate out of the box ideas. It is only out of the box that we will find OU.

How many centuries had man thought the world was flat. We still survived, we still advanced and when it was found to be round, we just kept on advancing from there (maybe not always in a good way). So how long will we be in the SEEM, it's up to us and the questions we ask and the logic we employ, but one day it will happen.

The one wire on a battery, as stupid as it sounds, is how DC works. DC is not AC. DC works on both sides of the coil. You can short a wire 1000 times and it will tell you the same story each time. So we make coils and pulse them on one side. We measure the voltage and see scope waveforms all based on differential potential. But looking at coils as differential potential will not lead to OU because it keeps you stuck in the SEEM. But what other tools do we have to see what is going on in our coils. We have our brains and our perspective that already plays for 50% of the SEEM because even if you work by that model you still have to use your own imagination as to what is going on in your coils.

All I am showing is that there is a perfectly feasible other method that holds the sames values on our instruments but expands your choices of experimentation. If you never realize or consider that maybe ether enters the coil to produce the magnetic field and not the other way around, then  how will you think of making OU devices with more secondary. There are no accidents in nature. Everything has a reason and ether needs a good reason to pile onto your secondaries. So how do you call ether in and how can you trick it to think there is more happening.

If the Ether Pile On Model (or EPOM for short) that I am trying to develop has any truth to it, it will apply to all energy sources including our sun. Imagine all the energy interactions in our sun are so intense and complex that the EPOM delimits a solar system. All that ether is already precondensed for us because of our sun. So imagine your coil is a fledgling sun, a seed for a star, a caller of ether that you use as bait to trap in more ether then you need. So you devise your baits and devise your nets to catch the ether feed in so many other ways.

Parallel and series, end tap or center tap, single set or multiple set, all devises fall into these categories. With the EPOM, ether will follow all of them as we are doing now but not all will produce OU as we are realizing. Right now we are in the primary/secondary type. If the DC model of + and - forward is correct, you will never get OU with only a primary and a secondary any more then the sun could work with two beats. That is where the SEEM stops and EPOM should start. We have to start expanding our coils in multiple primaries to confuse the heck out of the ether so it piles on more to the extreme. There is no other way. You can pulse the frequencies all you want, if you use a peanut, you will be left with the shell.

Coil winding example - mutli primary toroid.

Let's go to the extreme. Take a toroid core and calculate the wire diameter required to make 360 turns to complete a one layer wind over the entire core. Now wind the primaries in 3 to 4 turns each so you get 80 to 120 primaries all in parallel. Or take the same toroid and wire diameter but wind 360 primaries of 4 turns wound in pancake mode (very difficult to do - I have never seen this done). Now that is out of the box for a primary. Now wind your secondary any way you want to output for more volts or for more amps or a mix of both. Now imagine those primaries being in parallel will be able to handle much more energy growth then if you only used one 10 turn primary that will never be able to increase as the output refeeds the source. The primary is the most important coil because it has to start the process and be strong enough to grow with the processing. The 360 turns is just an example to explain the notion of multiple primaries.  If the flux in the toroid has a turning effect, then the primary all around the core will ensure this to be constant throughout the core. Maybe the ether will see this event as a potential runaway energy anomaly and decide to pile on a larger field presence. This is how to play with ether. It's like going fishing. Find the right spot and use the right bait and the fish will go crazy. Well, not always with Walleye. hehehe

The secondary could be five mag wires wound 360 degrees around the core as one or more layers and paralleled to increase the amperage output. You can put the primary and the core inside a plastic donut shape and wind the secondary on the donut so it is not skin close to the primary layer. This will give some space for the flyback field release.

There is so much more I have to say so you can understand how to drive such a coiling technique and what I mean by flyback field release.

Put it this way. If the EPOM is valid and the field comes from outside the coil, then on pulse off the field is released and will never collapse back into the coil. First of all, can anyone explain what the SEEM is for field collapse. The field that is on the outside of the coil, re-enters the coil when the pulse is off. So what is the step by step mechanism for the field to do that. I have never heard of a more wishful theory then that but this is what the SEEM purports to happen and we hear guys saying this everyday. The field just zaps back into the coil and creates this huge voltage jump. Wow, talk about a well trained field. No way man. That is not possible because for the field to do that, for the field to fall inwards like that, you would require a black hole that sucks in everything around it.

It would be like saying when you exhale cigarette smoke, as soon as you stop exhaling the smoke re-enters your mouth. If this was true then one cigarette should last a lifetime.

Next post will be on biased and non-biased pulsing that will explain the field collapse misnomer and how re-biased spin conveyance may be the reason we have flyback or as some wrongly call the supposed "field collapse" as being BEMF.

wattsup


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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #68 on: February 14, 2013, 02:37:44 AM »
Wattsup:

Quote
First of all, can anyone explain what the SEEM is for field collapse. The field that is on the outside of the coil, re-enters the coil when the pulse is off. So what is the step by step mechanism for the field to do that.

I'll just give you the mundane explanation.

The field is not on the "outside" of the coil.  It's both inside and outside the coil like the familiar bar magnet field pattern.  The field does not "re-enter" the coil when the field collapses.  The field will diminish and decrease in strength as the field collapses.

So on the most basic level if you had magic glasses that allowed you to see the field, as it collapsed it would look something like a glow that decreases in brightness until it eventually disappears.  The glow is brightest inside the coil.

If a coil is a closed circuit the field sustains itself and does not go away.  If you insert a resistance into the loop of the coil then the field will start to collapse.  The larger the value of the resistance, the faster the  field collapses.

When you observe the spike of voltage, it's a secondary effect that is driven by the primary effect of the collapsing field and equivalent decreasing current flow.

And the root diving mechanism behind all of this is to never forget that the coil and it's associated magnetic field/current flow is an energy storage mechanism that takes work/energy to "fire up" and will then release that work/energy in a "burn" if there is a load.

MileHigh

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #69 on: February 18, 2013, 06:46:10 PM »
The field is not on the "outside" of the coil.  It's both inside and outside the coil like the familiar bar magnet field pattern.  The field does not "re-enter" the coil when the field collapses.  The field will diminish and decrease in strength as the field collapses.

So on the most basic level if you had magic glasses that allowed you to see the field, as it collapsed it would look something like a glow that decreases in brightness until it eventually disappears.  The glow is brightest inside the coil.

MH, don't we need to consider the collapsing field as "moving" back to the coil?  It has to move to satisfy the fact that it will generate a current in a secondary stationary "pickup" coil.  Ultimately it collapses down to nothing and so does not still exist within the coil.  But are not magnetic field lines moving to and from the surface of the conductor when the coil energizes and de-energizes?
 
M.

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #69 on: February 18, 2013, 06:46:10 PM »
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Online MileHigh

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #70 on: February 19, 2013, 12:35:19 AM »
Mondrasek:

The magnetic field does not "move" to generate current in a separate pick-up coil.   It would be more appropriate to state that the pick-up coil is infused with the emanated field from the main coil.  That means by definition the pick-up coil is "watching" the main coil for changes in the magnetic field.  If the pick-up coil "sees" a change due to changes happening in the main coil it will then react.

In real electronics language the pick-up coil will react to changes in external magnetic flux that pass through the loop defined by the pick-up coil.

MileHigh

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #71 on: February 21, 2013, 01:36:08 PM »
@mondrasek

Goods questions.

These are the kind of questions to ask and understand.

If @MH is correct, then throw out all your coils because they will never produce OU.

If the EPOM is correct, then work the coils in different new arrangements and test variables.

Here is a sample I am testing. hehehe

wattsup


Offline Doug1

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #72 on: February 21, 2013, 07:53:37 PM »
Wattsup
  Have you tested a core in which the magntic MMF is moved around the core in one direction only yet? Meaning no reversal, always pumped forward.
 Ive been winding one on a alternator stator rated for a 100 amp. for use as a transformer that will be run from disk dyno using teslas mention of segmented disk with the magnet possitioned on the shaft from the book Tesla's treasures.The build out will be such that it can take an opposeing disk/magnet on the bottom of the shaft to aid as a drive motor.

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #73 on: March 04, 2013, 02:55:11 PM »
@Doug1

Sorry for the delay in responding to your question above. I have not tried that yet and have some problem visualizing how this could occur. At pulse on, the flux would appear in the core and on at off the flux would be released (not collapse but that is a contentious issue these days). The flux to "move in one direction" would be hard to achieve and even if it did "move" in open direction the flux would have to be everywhere in the core already while it moved so the secondary would not see any change but only a constant flux presence with a weak fluctuation.

What I would like to do when I have more time is to take an alternator stator, nice round and already proven secondary object and then just wind a Rodin Coil over the entire stator. I think this would be the best primary to secondary we could ever make since we already know that the alternator stator as a secondary can output up to 100 amps and 12vdc or 1200 watts of energy. The Rodin Coil is the best coil to produce the "rotational effect" as you can see in so many Rodin coil youtubes and I am sure the marriage of Rodin and stator will provide a good avenue for further experiments since the Rodin is keeping the spin in the center where the stator wants to see it. One day I will try it but I mention it here in case anyone else has some time to try it. I think the Rodin coil winding method had been long neglected in our own core winding methods and we should start experimenting in that line of thinking as well.

@all again

I am putting here a link to a youtube I made on the Diode Carousel (DC). More and more guys are making videos on their coil pulsing schemes which is great but I am afraid many are just skimming the surface of their potential results since they are not using a DC. The choice of diode can be the reason your experiments either produce great results or poor results especially when you are working with a fixed frequency circuit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj0ShZV6bhY

For those interested in the function of the Ether, there are three great videos that were mentioned I think in the TK thread. They are three Primer Fields videos part one located here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM6hxYxkaOg

This has given me some new ideas on coiling methods that would direct the Ether rather then count on direct primary to secondary coupling. hehehe

More to come.

wattsup


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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #74 on: April 21, 2013, 12:48:48 AM »
@Doug1

Sorry for the delay in responding to your question above. I have not tried that yet and have some problem visualizing how this could occur. At pulse on, the flux would appear in the core and on at off the flux would be released (not collapse but that is a contentious issue these days). The flux to "move in one direction" would be hard to achieve and even if it did "move" in open direction the flux would have to be everywhere in the core already while it moved so the secondary would not see any change but only a constant flux presence with a weak fluctuation.

What I would like to do when I have more time is to take an alternator stator, nice round and already proven secondary object and then just wind a Rodin Coil over the entire stator. I think this would be the best primary to secondary we could ever make since we already know that the alternator stator as a secondary can output up to 100 amps and 12vdc or 1200 watts of energy. The Rodin Coil is the best coil to produce the "rotational effect" as you can see in so many Rodin coil youtubes and I am sure the marriage of Rodin and stator will provide a good avenue for further experiments since the Rodin is keeping the spin in the center where the stator wants to see it. One day I will try it but I mention it here in case anyone else has some time to try it. I think the Rodin coil winding method had been long neglected in our own core winding methods and we should start experimenting in that line of thinking as well.

@all again

I am putting here a link to a youtube I made on the Diode Carousel (DC). More and more guys are making videos on their coil pulsing schemes which is great but I am afraid many are just skimming the surface of their potential results since they are not using a DC. The choice of diode can be the reason your experiments either produce great results or poor results especially when you are working with a fixed frequency circuit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj0ShZV6bhY

For those interested in the function of the Ether, there are three great videos that were mentioned I think in the TK thread. They are three Primer Fields videos part one located here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM6hxYxkaOg

This has given me some new ideas on coiling methods that would direct the Ether rather then count on direct primary to secondary coupling. hehehe

More to come.

wattsup

Hello wattsup,

We think in very similar terms and are working on very similar designs. Theoretically if we have multiple coils in a loop and the number of coils for this example is say nine with one being the main strong primary and out of the flux loop, and others being very weak primaries we can produce a strong flux going in one direction. The main primary is to start the volume of flux moving to all the other coils and to increase the flux, magnets are added in each flux loop from the main primary to the secondary coils. All of the coils are wound in the same direction and would be energized at exactly the same time, thus the flux would be in one direction. Every coil reacting to the high volume of flux would have an increase voltage from induction from the preceding coil(s). This voltage being in reverse would produce flux in the opposite direction. Since magnetic flux follows the path of lest reluctance an alternate flux path to loop back is provided to redirect the flux to further increase the volume of flux. By now you're probably getting a fluxing headache but that's all right as I got one reading all of your posts. LOL. I omitted the resistance load at each coil for simplicity but you don't need that to understand the theory. The energy produced at each secondary/primary coil is fed back through the circuit thus a constantly increasing current maintains a zero increase in the initial voltage. At this point the return voltage produced can be pulsed and or the frequency increased to possibly harvest the ether. I hope you get over your headache. John

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #74 on: April 21, 2013, 12:48:48 AM »

 

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