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Author Topic: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!  (Read 49802 times)

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2013, 04:50:52 PM »
Hi Watts, thanks for being accepting.
The L1 coil is there, _I think_, so that there remains some relatively high impedance between the battery positive and the mosfets when operating at the design frequency. The drive coil itself is very low impedance usually. With a non-center-tapped drive coil, as in my wireless transmitters, the drive coil isn't center tapped and is _really_ low impedance, so there are 2 "L1" chokes to the positive rail, one on either side of the drive coil. I think this is the case. I had one transmitter fail when one of these chokes failed (got too hot, shorted thru the cheap wire enamel insulation, and actually broke the ferrite core, along with blowing both mosfets.) I'll be interested to see your take on these chokes. I have found that their value isn't too critical; I've used as low as 40 uHy in my transmitters when the schematic calls for 100 uHy. I'm operating at around 800 kHz for the wireless (IIRC, I haven't measured it lately). I've seen some lower frequency  center-tapped versions that call for 1000 uHy here along with big spiral transmitter coils, I haven't played around much with those yet. My best flyback driver (center tapped, one choke) uses about 120 uHy for this choke and works awesomely well.
The Zeners in the drawing I posted, and in the "Hendershot" drawing from Dave, are "gate protection" Zeners which limit the voltage at the mosfet gate by shunting any overvoltage directly to the mosfet source (negative rail, ground.) Most of the mosfets we use have a 20 Volt gate-source limit, some have 30 volt limit. Using 12-volt or 15-volt Zeners here in these circuits is a simple way of allowing the DC input voltage to go higher - 36 volts or more - without taking the chance of exceeding the gate-source limit of the mosfets. If the zeners weren't there you'd be limited on your supply voltage to something that the gate can handle.  There is a _lot_ of reactive power circulating in the coils of these circuits, which is why you need very low Rdss mosfets, because even with true ZVS the mosfets are carrying a lot of peak current when they are on.

In that last circuit of Dave's using the ignition coil to drive the output arrangement (through a spark gap?) those first two diodes are going to have to be capable of handling at least 20 kv PIV, I think.....  so I wonder why not use a modern flyback transformer, whose output is already rectified by its internal HV diodes....

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2013, 04:50:52 PM »

Dave45

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2013, 04:52:44 PM »
Finding the best way to explain  :-\
A coils magnetic field resists change not only because of the direction of current through the coil but also the polarity of the current.


Dave45

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2013, 07:07:22 PM »
One side needs a pos pulse the other a neg pulse preferably at the same time.
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/afep01.htm
Naudin using the AV plug
Look at the fwbr and you will see the av plug.


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2013, 09:52:22 PM »
Finding the best way to explain  :-\
A coils magnetic field resists change not only because of the direction of current through the coil but also the polarity of the current.

What is the difference between the "polarity of the current" and the "direction of current" ?


Dave45

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2013, 12:02:33 PM »
What is the difference between the "polarity of the current" and the "direction of current" ?
I was trying to spit it out, it came out wrong  ::)
 
I was thinking on the zvs,
The capacitor sets the frequency that the coils run at, it acts like a spring catching the bemf from both coils.
What happens when we put diodes before the cap, the cap catches the bemf but does not return the energy back into the system, we have freed the coils up to run at their maximum, their only limit would be component speed, wire resistance, core resistance. It would runaway.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2013, 12:02:33 PM »
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Dave45

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2013, 02:16:58 PM »
My idea's are my own, take with a grain of salt, I make no claims.
I can post or not, whichever you prefer. ;)
 
I wonder if the zvs coils were wound on a magnet in such a way as to buck the magnetic field of the pm would this give enough resistance to stop the runaway and increase the bemf which is being fed into the caps.
Just pondering
Im building the circuit now I have the core and everything else but the mosfets I have cant handle the current so I have to order some or figure out how to make the circuit draw less amps.
Im learning and have lots of idea's.

later
dave

Online wattsup

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2013, 03:50:13 PM »
@TK and @Dave45

Sorry for delay in posting back. When it snows heavy I am free because we cancel jobs on those days but when it is snow free or light, we wind up rushing twice as much so next two days will be rough going with lots of work. But on Sunday I will be posting again. Post what you think is pertinent. I will be back soon.

wattsup

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2013, 03:50:13 PM »
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Offline Qwert

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2013, 05:49:40 PM »
My idea's are my own, take with a grain of salt, I make no claims.
I can post or not, whichever you prefer. ;) ...   ...

Only something that I call "constructive criticism" can move ideas into great inventions. I guess, TK does right job in this forum.

Offline Trino Cularoid

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2013, 06:23:43 PM »
Many scientists deny it or ignore it: consciousness. It allows to turn possibilities into probabilities. Or, in other words, it can make things happen more (or less) likely than expected. It can also make the repeatability of experiments unreliable, which isn't exactly appreciated for currently used scientific models.

If we assume that consciousness can affect an outcome, then it shouldn't be a big surprise that some inventions are not working reliably during demonstrations if the audience is very skeptic. On the other hand, some individuals or groups might be able to successfully replicate many inventions because of their state of consciousness, may even be able to make "fake" inventions work.

Also, there might be more than one way to do something. Just because something can "easily" be faked doesn't necessarily mean it was actually done in such a way.

Just some things that might be worth keeping in (an open) mind...

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2013, 06:26:30 PM »
Thanks, Qwert.

Dave.... please keep posting !! I'm trying to understand what you mean, and I have some little experience with the basic circuit you have posted. I've built many wireless transmitters using the same basic circuit with IRFZ44n mosfets, and flyback drivers using IRFP260 mosfets, and I'm about to build another variant using IRFP460 mosfets to try for low-power induction heating. (I plan to use a circuit with around 0.5 uF capacitor and 25 uHy for the output coil, beefy Litz or multistrands of magnet wire.)
All my work with these circuits is documented in my YT channel. The flyback driver is particularly spectacular in performance.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2013, 06:26:30 PM »
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Offline Gwandau

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2013, 01:39:43 AM »
Many scientists deny it or ignore it: consciousness. It allows to turn possibilities into probabilities. Or, in other words, it can make things happen more (or less) likely than expected. It can also make the repeatability of experiments unreliable, which isn't exactly appreciated for currently used scientific models.

If we assume that consciousness can affect an outcome, then it shouldn't be a big surprise that some inventions are not working reliably during demonstrations if the audience is very skeptic. On the other hand, some individuals or groups might be able to successfully replicate many inventions because of their state of consciousness, may even be able to make "fake" inventions work.

Also, there might be more than one way to do something. Just because something can "easily" be faked doesn't necessarily mean it was actually done in such a way.

Just some things that might be worth keeping in (an open) mind...

Trino Cularoid,
 
I am astonished and pleased to find someone on this forum expressing such novel area of thought, most people still believe that our so called
physical reality consists of an unchanging and unimpressionable set of fundamental laws that governs the observed physical phenomena around us.
 
What you are closing in on is absolutely heretical to the scientific community as well as the majority of the OU community.
 
Still, according to validated quantuum theory, the observer is beyond doubt affecting the observed on the Planck scale level and below.
Today many scientists find it a great mystery why this effect is not apparent on the macro scale as well. Theoretically it should, since macro reality is made up of micro reality.
 
And maybe this phenomeon actually does exist on the macro scale, but still have evaded recognition due to its elusive quality.
 

The concept of consciousness being directly involved in the level of probability is far, far ahead of our times,
and will probably only be fully understood from a level of holistic understanding still unavailable for the human mind.
 
 
The British biochemist Robert Sheldrake has devoted his entire career into the exploration of a new science he calls "Morpho-Genesis".
He has found through statistical research that any new innovation takes a certain time to gain momentum in its function.
 
For example, a never before done chemical experiment is performing very different results in the beginning, but the more times the experiment
is performed, and the more people that has witnessed it, the more stable the chemical reaction becomes.
 
This is totally opposing the conventional view of our universe being rock solid in its dependence on never changing scientific fundamental laws.
 
When dealing with novel areas of research it is therefore absolutely essential to be select in your choice of audience when presenting initial experimental results or even ideas.
 
The solution initiated by wattsup by creating an environment here at the OU free from hyenas and litter is a welcome first step in that direction.
 
 
Gwandau

Offline tinman

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2013, 09:26:59 AM »
@vineet_kiran

You bring up a good point and we will cover this question and also try and identify the terminology when guys talk about effects in their coils. Usually feed back is an intended effect taken via a third coil on a core, so the term you are using may not be the right one, but this confusion happens way to often in OU discussions and it often becomes a source of great discourse, so we will take a look at that in the next threads.

@Dave45

I agree with you. And again, this is another main point to look at. When you look at Tesla patents, you will notice that he rarely makes reference to positive and negative and you could swear some of his devices worked bi-directionally. I am using the word "direction" here very loosely because I really think that DC has no direction. Direction only became a reality once the positive diode was invented and by doing so forced all circuits into a fixed direction. I also think one day someone will invent the negative diode and when that becomes a reality, circuits will be seen in a whole new light. We will have to cover this more in the coming threads.

@all

If you have some other short ideas to add to this thread, concerns, observations, etc., that we can then cover these more deeply in newer threads, please do so.

wattsup
Hi Guys

Wattsup-i am replying to your statment-you could swear some of his devices were bi directional.
Well as it turns out,i have been working on a simple circuit that uses a tesal bifilar pancake coil.
TK has been helping me along the way in reguards to figuring out what we are seeing.

I am yet to see results that resemble what im seeing with this circuit.
Some how i have current flowing in the wrong direction on both the positive and negative side?
I guess the best thing to do is post my latest video here, and let you guys see for your self the effects im getting.

I am hopeing to get my 2 channel scope this week,and this should make it easy to see what is going on.
But for now,take a look and let me know if you have seen this effect befor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxEalA83XlE

It is good to see a thread that will not have any negative input or polution on it.

I am far from full bottles on electronic's-hence the reason i asked TK to take a look at this circuit.
But i am more than happy to replicate and confirm result's with others finding's.

Thanks guy's


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2013, 03:28:54 PM »
Hi Tinman, thanks for the video and the circuit. I took the liberty of re-drawing your schematic.... it always helps me to draw the schematic, I try to imagine myself swimming around in the wires like a negative charge carrier, trying to figure out which way to go and what to do....

Please go over my drawing and let me know right away if I've made any mistakes.

I don't remember what diodes you used so I just put in 1n914 (1n4148, etc) but it would be best to use whatever you used, if you can let me know the number.

Also, what's the peak voltage of the square wave generator as you are using it? I forgot to put the frequency in there too, I think you said it was 550 Hz about?

It might also be important to know the winding direction and hookup of the TB coil: is the outer wire or the center wire connected to positive rail, and when looking at the coil's face, does it spiral CW or CCW?

I haven't yet built it, just woke up, will build and test later on today.

Dave45

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2013, 09:30:54 PM »
Had to go out of town for a bit
http://www.falstad.com/vector3dm/ when java opens select horseshoe electromagnetic in the first drop down box then select field lines in the next box, expand the box and you can rotate with your mouse pointer


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2013, 03:00:46 AM »
A big part of understanding overunity is understanding how to measure things, and how measurements can go wrong, or at least be very suspect.

I've reproduced the effect TinMan showed in the video above. Even though these DMMs can be very accurate measuring voltage and current in oscillating systems, it's still possible to fool them, which is apparently what is happening here.

In the following video I show the operation of TinMan's circuit when driven by my F43 function generator making a symmetrical square wave output with 50 percent duty cycle. These LEDs are from a Harbor Freight 27-LED flashlight.... when these are on sale for $3.99 they are the cheapest source for white LEDs I've found! And easy to work with, I just pulled out the 3-LED front light board and used it completely as-is.

But I am astounded at the brilliance of the LEDs when driven with the full output from the FG to the TinMan board. Due to the loading the FG is only putting out about 12 V p-p at this setting.... but the LEDs are brighter than I have ever seen an ordinary 5mm white LED get without blowing. It hurts to look at them they are so bright, at certain settings of frequency and amplitude on the FG.

But the DMM story is also astounding. First, one can see that increasing the output amplitude of the FG does cause the lights to get brighter.... but the indicated current on the meters goes _down_. And by careful tuning of frequency and FG amplitude..... I can get the meters to read _zero_ current, even on the 2000 microAmp range, yet the LEDs are still shining respectably brightly.

I don't show any scope traces from the circuit here, because there is some groundlooping happening in my setup somehow, even when I have the F43 switched to full isolation (Black output lead isolated from chassis ground), when the scope's grounds are hooked up. So to be sure to avoid non-measured current paths I disconnected the scope and am just showing the DMM readings here. Later on I'll make another video showing some scope traces, they are beautiful and interesting.

(I do show a scope trace from a pickup coil not connected to the circuit except by induction; since I am at the resonant frequency of the pickup coil it shows a pure sine wave of high amplitude. This is _not_ what is happening in the TinMan circuit's Tesla bifilar coil, however.... that will come later.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvf9Uo7UVx0


I'd like to see Tinman start a thread on this, it's a very interesting circuit and TinMan deserves a thread on it; plus it will keep us from distracting from other topics.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Welcome to Understanding Overunity!!!!!
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2013, 03:00:46 AM »

 

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