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Author Topic: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8  (Read 180247 times)

Offline casman1969

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Gentlemen, please..,
Light and lumens as an indicator of overunity????
Let's do this the simple ( my level ) way by using a high amp hour battery connected to a 2kw inverter, feed the induction heater from its output, use the output coil(s) stepped down (transformer) bridge rectified output to loop back to the battery and see if there is a net gain or loss. If a net = or gain on the battery, then you really do have something. simple impedance matching from the output coil to the input step down tranny seems to me to be the easiest way to validate. Is this unreasonable or undoable?
 
Just my bleacher seat two cents worth.

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Offline TinselKoala

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very interesting, look more replications
http://www.conspirovniscience.com/forum/index.php?s=9852b32076335acd4e62d26f162bb149&showtopic=1031&st=60
My French is rudimentary but the scopeshots and spreadsheet graphs are pretty revealing.

So... do _you_ think it is appropriate to start sampling at the zero of the outer envelope, and stop sampling at the next zero? Or would it be better to sample across several zeros of the outer envelope?

Offline cHenriques

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I only found and post that thread of that forum, you can try understand the google tradution http://translate.google.pt/translate?hl=pt-BR&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.conspirovniscience.com%2Fforum%2Findex.php%3Fs%3D88ee1858c05acd3c553bb25104b8d711%26showtopic%3D1031%26st%3D60

sampling across several zeros of outer envolepe would be better I think. The problem can be a sample rate issue But to prove if is or not OU I think that They must depart all scope tests, ligth and temperature, because there are high frequencies and harmonics and if is a flat bifilar tesla coil and with all the theory about this so very different effects can exist, the light different and the resistive load have a different temperature relationship.

So the closed loop must be tried like RomeroUK, use resistive load  more indutive, step it down, rectifiing in a capacitor and put it in the battery

best regards

Offline hartiberlin

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Gentlemen, please..,
Light and lumens as an indicator of overunity? ???
Let's do this the simple ( my level ) way by using a high amp hour battery connected to a 2kw inverter, feed the induction heater from its output, use the output coil(s) stepped down (transformer) bridge rectified output to loop back to the battery and see if there is a net gain or loss. If a net = or gain on the battery, then you really do have something. simple impedance matching from the output coil to the input step down tranny seems to me to be the easiest way to validate. Is this unreasonable or undoable?
 
Just my bleacher seat two cents worth.

Yes, that is the right way.
You can then also use a charged supercap to start the process and see, if the supercap will discharge or charge... !

If it will charge up, you have proven that the system  is overunity.

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Offline hartiberlin

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Hmm,
I still have 2 questions:

How do they regulate the power output of the eddy current coil inside the cooker via the LCD display control ?

Is it this kind of envelope AM modulation they use to set the used power level ?
How is the envelope changed to set the power levels ?

In the circuit diagramm user targor posted,  it seems they have NO separation of the
grid power to the coil,
so be careful not to touch the transmitter coil, as it coul kill you to touch it, as there is no separation to ground..
No transformer used there...


2. Question: WHy does the aluminium cooler plate get not hot inside the cooker ?
It should also get hot by eddy currents...

Is it not made out of full aluminium metal ?

Many thanks.

Offline tagor

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Is it this kind of envelope AM modulation they use to set the used power level ?
How is the envelope changed to set the power levels ?



the envelope does not change it is 50 hz
 
but the frequency ( ~ 20khz ) change with the load ( or inductance of the load )
 
 
 
Quote
2. Question: WHy does the aluminium cooler plate get not hot inside the cooker ?
It should also get hot by eddy currents...

Is it not made out of full aluminium metal ?


 

i think it is a security to do not burn you ( not full aluminium )
 
 

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Offline TinselKoala

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The "depth" of the envelope modulation is how the output power is set, I think.
And the cookware that works with these cookers is ferromagnetic; all-aluminum pans don't work as well or at all, according to what I see on the internet. Supposedly you should check your pots and pans with a magnet; if the magnet sticks to the bottom they are supposed to work with the inductive cookers. You can even get special flat, magnetic, plates to go on top of the cooker so you can use your regular all-aluminum pans on the cooker.

ETA: I don't know if this is because of eddy current, or because the cookers need some kind of signal to start up.

ETA2: All the wal-mart and target stores in my area are sold out of the lower-cost models of these cookers. Either there is a lot of cooking going on.... or there are a lot of people doing FE research with them !!

Offline tagor

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The "depth" of the envelope modulation is how the output power is set, I think.


The "depth" of the envelope depends of the 20khz modulation frequency ( 18 to 20 khz )

Offline TinselKoala

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The "depth" of the envelope depends of the 20khz modulation frequency ( 18 to 20 khz )

Hmmm.... OK, maybe I am starting to understand. I don't quite see how the HF frequency could control the amplitude (what I called "depth") of the envelope.... but perhaps the explanation in the .pdf has the answer.

In the .pdf paper linked on page 2 by Wings, the explanation for the envelope seems to be that it is a deliberately allowed ripple which helps power factor correction, if I am understanding properly.
http://inpressco.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Paper5126-132.pdf

Quote
The AC main (220V, 50Hz) is routed through EMI / EMC filter
before being fed to the bridge rectifier. The output of the
rectifier is passed through an inductor and a capacitor C.
The capacitor C is of small capacity (5uF) so that the DC
voltage (Vdc) across C does not get leveled. This in turn
also helps to improve the overall power factor of the
system. The return path of the high frequency current is
through this capacitor C as at high frequency C offers
negligible capacitive reactance ( ), where f is in KHz
range, hence, the capacitor C acts as a short circuit and
allows high frequency current to flow. It also acts as
higher order harmonic filter at the same cost.

Quote
The depth of heat
penetration on cooking pan is inversely proportional to
operating frequency and the operating frequency is
inversed of operating time period. So, by changing the
IGBT ON-OFF time operating frequency can be changed
and thus the heat penetration on cooking pan can be
controlled.

So it would appear that the envelope is a deliberately allowed ripple at constant frequency (mains) and amplitude (output of FWB in supply) and the power level is controlled by frequency of the HF oscillation within the envelope .... you could think of this as the number of HF cycles included in one envelope cycle, I guess.  Does this seem correct to you?

It's making more sense now... I think ...  Thanks, tagor.

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Offline hartiberlin

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Hmm,
thzanks tagor and TK for the explanations.

Pretty strange circuit !

Why don´t they not just use some kind of Joule Ringer circuit, where you
can set the pulse frequency of some positive pulses ?

WHy do they need the 50 Hz Amplitude modulation at all ?

I still don´t understand why the aluminium cooler plate for the IGBT is not affected
by the eddy currents or also the circuit board in the cooker ?
Is it too fra away from the coil ?

Is it just a magnetic heating effect only, so you need to have real ferromagnetic material,
as the frequency is too low with about 20 Khz ?

Hmm,
what do you think of the latest Power measurements from Naudin.
If you optically integrate the areas under the envelopes and spikes, it seems
that he has more than 2000 Watts output with less input...

But can we trust these measurements ?

The true solution would really be using charged supercaps or el. caps
running an inverter and powering the cooker plate with it and then
use the bifilar output coil to bridge rectify the output and charge up
the caps and see, if this will loop indefinately or the cap charge will run down ?


I guess it will run down, but you never will know...


Regards, Stefan.



Offline fritz

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... the modulation seen in the traces is just a fragment of the overall modulation.
The used trigger method /  horizontal deflection / holdoff shows a periodic picture of an a- oder pseudo periodic event - which cannot be used to extrapolate the overall efficiency.

rgds.

Offline TinselKoala

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I think the Joule heating of the coffeepot is the best output power measurement he's made so far. There is not much that can go wrong with the method the way he did it.

Offline tagor

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I think the Joule heating of the coffeepot is the best output power measurement he's made so far. There is not much that can go wrong with the method the way he did it.

ok the pdf is a good answer
 
JLN is doing a lot of measurement , wait and see
 
for the circuit it is not "a good solution" it is the cheapest one

Offline tagor

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JLN is doing a lot of measurements with only one envelope and
all those measurements are with the same cop ...
 
but if the envelope is varying all the time he need to take in count
a lot of envelope this is the big problem with the data

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