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Author Topic: 1850 Watts free energy power ? New GEGENE circuit by JL Naudin shows COP = 2.8  (Read 178447 times)

Offline Paul-R

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Messing about with lamps or LEDs seems a waste of time.
JLN has been connecting up to a kettle and measuring the
rise in temp over a known time.

This must be the way to go.

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Offline Madebymonkeys

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MBM
Your Benevolence is getting a bit "strong",Naudlin has been doing this a long time,I don't think he's a hotplate salesman looking to "score" a big month.
 
The Recent Mix is even more interesting ATM .
 
Thx
Chet

Sorry about that - I just think that measurement isn't taken seriously by a lot of people.
Power meters range from kill-a-watt devices which make assumptions about the devices connected to it based on the law - they also range up to many thousands which can measure way beyond 50/60Hz and are more accurate.
The hob is probably a chopper in the region of kHz and doesn't seem to show and PFC components on the video (they could be there mind you?).

The difference between professional test gear and a $10 kill-a-watt is enormous. Given the (optimistic) specs of the KAW I would guess (haven't calced) that, when accumulated, the errors on voltage measurement, current measurement, rounding errors in the math (this is a small uC in it!), timing errors when looking for zero crossings etc you could easily get to some double figure uncertainties (%).
For someone 'on the verge of a world changer' a few k for a decent power meter should be top of the list....or hire one. I doubt that a KAW could measure too many harmonic frequencies although I will buy one on eBay and teardown - the online specs are laughable.

If he has measured everything ok and with some finite element of doubt (say +/-10% for instance) then he should win the Nobel prize. I know that's sarcastic but if there was no measurement uncertainties then he's done it! He should get the OU prize or something.

I will tone-down the benevolence, I am sure he can figure it out :)


Offline TinselKoala

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When... or rather "if"....  he shows massive OU from the coffeepot calorimetry test, I'll start paying much closer attention. So far, that's the best testing Jean-Louis has done yet, and it shows the expected efficiency of less than unity.

I would like to know something: When the halogen bulbs are used as the output load, is there any darkening of the glass happening? The bulbs I use for loads in my wireless power systems, operating at between 500 and 800 kHz, get very much brighter than they do with equivalent DC power, but the filaments apparently are boiling away and sputtercoating the inside of the glass with metal, that fairly quickly turns the glass black. I even see this with NE-2 neons driven with high power/high frequency. A couple of hours of operation and the bulbs can get almost opaque.

Offline Madebymonkeys

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When... or rather "if"....  he shows massive OU from the coffeepot calorimetry test, I'll start paying much closer attention. So far, that's the best testing Jean-Louis has done yet, and it shows the expected efficiency of less than unity.

I would like to know something: When the halogen bulbs are used as the output load, is there any darkening of the glass happening? The bulbs I use for loads in my wireless power systems, operating at between 500 and 800 kHz, get very much brighter than they do with equivalent DC power, but the filaments apparently are boiling away and sputtercoating the inside of the glass with metal, that fairly quickly turns the glass black. I even see this with NE-2 neons driven with high power/high frequency. A couple of hours of operation and the bulbs can get almost opaque.

If the halogen lights are run lower than 250geg C glass temperature the tungsten bromide will stick to the glass causing a darkening - lower temperature glass could mean running them at a voltage lower than what they were designed for (which in some OU experiments could be likely).

MBM


Offline TinselKoala

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Hmmm.... thanks, that's interesting.... but in my systems I'm not using halogen bulbs, I am using ordinary incandescent automotive dome and instrument lights, and NE-2s. And I am driving them at higher peak voltages than their nominal ratings. For example, one type of bulb that I use a lot is a car dome light bulb, Osram K5618, rated 12 V 10 W, and my wireless receiver drives it with a nice 800 kHz sine wave at a p-p voltage of around 40 volts. It gets _very_ bright, but the glass is visibly darkened after only tens of minutes runtime.

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Offline Paul-R

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. It gets _very_ bright, but the glass is visibly darkened after only tens of minutes runtime.
I think this is to be expected if you overrun it. It is the process of the filament beginning
to evaporate and deposit on the bulb. The bulb won't last long.

Offline FatBird

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@ TinselKoala,
 
Your wireless receiver sounds great. 
Is there anyplace we could find the schematic for that?
 
Thanks.
 
.

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Offline Madebymonkeys

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Hmmm.... thanks, that's interesting.... but in my systems I'm not using halogen bulbs, I am using ordinary incandescent automotive dome and instrument lights, and NE-2s. And I am driving them at higher peak voltages than their nominal ratings. For example, one type of bulb that I use a lot is a car dome light bulb, Osram K5618, rated 12 V 10 W, and my wireless receiver drives it with a nice 800 kHz sine wave at a p-p voltage of around 40 volts. It gets _very_ bright, but the glass is visibly darkened after only tens of minutes runtime.

Sorry about that, didn't know what type you were using.
Seems like the ratings on these and halogens should be adhered to where possible - seems the halogens go dark at lower voltage and the incandescents go dark at higher voltage :)
I guess this is a good reason to use a resistive load and also a good reason not to use light output as a measure of performance in a system!

Offline TinselKoala

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I think this is to be expected if you overrun it. It is the process of the filament beginning
to evaporate and deposit on the bulb. The bulb won't last long.
I believe I said the same thing about boiling off the filament and sputter-coating the glass. However, I have yet to have a failure of these bulbs. I think that the material quantity being transported from filament to glass is very small.

I have cracked the glass on some NE-2 bulbs though, from overheating them with the Bedini motor.

Offline TinselKoala

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@ TinselKoala,
 
Your wireless receiver sounds great. 
Is there anyplace we could find the schematic for that?
 
Thanks.
 
.
It's designed to work with my wireless transmitter systems. If you look at my YT channel and search for "wireless power" you'll find a bunch of videos showing the development of the system. The receiver is basically identical to some of the output stages we are seeing in the Kapadnaze threads, coupled through space rather than through a transformer core. Principle is the same, though.
Below I show the full schematic for DC output in addition to lighting the bulb. If only bulb is needed, as in the photo above, then just chop off everything to the right of the bulb.

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Offline pauldude000

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Madebymonkeys -- thanks for the pointer to the WT1800.

Are you saying that the Gegene will show WILL DEFINITELY show more input-power usage when measured by the WT1800 or equivalent, than when measured by a standard (utility-provided) power meter?

(Referring to a utility-provided power meter, not a "cheap" power meter such as the kill-a-watt meter)


I wonder is MBM realizes he is outclassed yet..... :)


The problem inherently is that certain mentalities get stuck in a rut, so to speak, and cannot get out of it. Truthfully, I trust my scope better than someone else's, even if it is inaccurate. If it is accurate, I know that at best the readings are but an approximational measurement of reality.


I guess what I am saying is that so long as the inaccuracy of the tool does not vary it will give a reliable measurement, if not an accurate measurement. You can determine ratios even using junk, so long as the measurements are equally off. MBM should realize it is one part tool, nine parts skill.


For example, one of the worst multimeters I have ever owned was a B&K.... Wouldn't take an accurate measurement to save it's life.


One of the most accurate just happened to be made in China. (Accidents do happen.) It measured precise on known quantity precision resistors. Go figure.


People shouldn't put too much faith in a tool name.

Offline pauldude000

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Hmmm.... thanks, that's interesting.... but in my systems I'm not using halogen bulbs, I am using ordinary incandescent automotive dome and instrument lights, and NE-2s. And I am driving them at higher peak voltages than their nominal ratings. For example, one type of bulb that I use a lot is a car dome light bulb, Osram K5618, rated 12 V 10 W, and my wireless receiver drives it with a nice 800 kHz sine wave at a p-p voltage of around 40 volts. It gets _very_ bright, but the glass is visibly darkened after only tens of minutes runtime.


With a peak to peak of 40v your mean voltage may well be way above the factory design rating of 12v of the bulb, and as someone else stated it is evaporating the filament. Use the concept of relativity, in that your bulb may be 'seeing' a constant voltage which is far above 12v, and the resistance (impedance) is changing due to the frequency. It is hard to tell from the pics, but the filament looks like it could be a coil which adds impedance with high frequency AC changing the total resistance of that leg of the circuit. It may well be acting like two resistors in parallel.


Something to think about, and I could well be full of the brown stuff.


Offline NoBull

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I am using ordinary incandescent automotive dome and instrument lights, and NE-2s. And I am driving them at higher peak voltages than their nominal ratings. For example, one type of bulb that I use a lot is a car dome light bulb, Osram K5618, rated 12 V 10 W, and my wireless receiver drives it with a nice 800 kHz sine wave at a p-p voltage of around 40 volts. It gets _very_ bright, but the glass is visibly darkened after only tens of minutes runtime.
At 800kHz there is no chance for the filament temperature to follow the input waveform, thus peak measurements of the waveform are of little significance in this case.
Do you know what the average current flowing through the filament is?

Offline jopel

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Hello,

i have tested this and it works perfect (1196 Watt Input and 2500 Watt Lightbulbs worked). But can anyone help me to deactivate the pot recognition on my cheap China induction heater? I've seen it on a page, but cant find it anymore - a resistor was changed to a bigger one. In Pic 1 you can see that i tested it with two 1k resistors, but it doesnt work and i changed it back.

greating


Offline Paul-R

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Induction hob for £29.  (Possibly UK only. Not sure).
 
 Thursday April 25th. Probably limited availability.
 
 ALDI - Thursday Special Buys 25th April 2013
 .
 

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