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Author Topic: Has An Important Property Of Fluids Been Overlooked ?  (Read 65712 times)

WilbyInebriated

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Re: Has An Important Property Of Fluids Been Overlooked ?
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2012, 04:57:47 PM »
So thats all you two crusty burned out Charcoal briskets got?
 Whatsamatter fraid of the water,  Yeh might get "muddy"?
ahh the godtard who has never shown or presented any of the data from his 'alleged' projects is engaging in psychological projection... how cute. ::)  anyways, tk and myself are covered in mud... from all that mud you slung at us in your last post. jesus is so proud of you i'm sure... ::)
 
Can't even come up with a way to "Check" the concept? [besides breaking bottles].
cant you?

Tk, your sittin on a planet full of H2O and all you do is Lust after  " sexed up  naked space dirt pics"!
 
"W" Put down your "tool" and pick up the pencil!  [while you can still see]

Your the guys with the big craniums..........
 Busta move.....
 
Chet
neither tk nor myself work for you. whining for someone else to do what you cannot, as you godtards are wont to do, isn't helping anyone... ::)  nobody is putting it on a silver platter for you. get off your lazy ass and educate yourself, that way you might actually be able to accomplish something yourself... like coming up with a way to 'check' the concept on your own... ::)  instead of being nothing but a godtarded cheerleader, who sucks at cheerleading.

ramset

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Re: Has An Important Property Of Fluids Been Overlooked ?
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2012, 05:42:26 PM »
Weak, Soft and mushy ...........
So thats it Huh?
 
Fletch busts his but, establishes his understanding of the "rules of the game"[known science]  ,shares what he feels to be a probable exception.
Backed up by what seems to be years of hard work ..Much Mental rigor , scrutiny and math.........
 
And you bring "do it yourself Chester"!!
 
Thats all you got?
 
I don't have the skills or the education to evaluate this presentation,YOU TWO OBVIOUSLY MUST !!
[sans comments] .
 
Where is he going wrong ?
 
Thx
Chet
 
 
 
 

fletcher

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Re: Has An Important Property Of Fluids Been Overlooked ?
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2012, 08:17:12 PM »
Thanks for the inputs fella's.

I always reserve the right to be wrong - I have brain farts & moments of temporary insanity like most of us willing to put time into this OU enigma I suspect - I dare to dream every once in a while too - I'm in good company as all these discussion boards will attest to so its really nothing to be afraid of here - I'm simply looking for an experiment that could prove or disprove a concept - the concept to me appears counter-intuitive but it could also just be plain wrong because of my error - either way hopefully I will learn something of value.

For those who might want to follow the discussion or join in it can be viewed here in General Discussion forum.

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5504

cheers -fletcher

Cap-Z-ro

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Re: Has An Important Property Of Fluids Been Overlooked ?
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2012, 06:12:11 AM »

The "Property Of Fluids" cannot be adequately discussed without due consideration given to the work of Viktor Schauberger.

Regards...



minnie

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Re: Has An Important Property Of Fluids Been Overlooked ?
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2012, 09:50:13 AM »
Hi,
  I've been looking at Fletcher's besslerwheel discussion pages and found it very fascinating. I'm stuck trying to get to grips with
the concept of a fluid filled plinth with a stanchion supporting a structure, sited on a corner of that plinth.
  Said plinth must be of two parts otherwise it would just act as a block stone. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
My overall feeling is that a gravity machine,even if it worked, would be very feeble. Fletcher's machine would be limited to a very
few RPM. therefore the weights would have to be massive to get a useful output. Who'd want a five ton machine to charge a
phone?
          Thank you Fletcher, very stimulating!
                                                                John

Michael Q Shaw

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Re: Has An Important Property Of Fluids Been Overlooked ?
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2012, 12:44:14 PM »
You mentioned "who would not want a 5 ton machine to charge a phone, but if you look at the big picture, "if" a true gravity driven device were possible, then "they" really did not need to build that nuclear reactor 21 miles from my home here in Virginia and could now replace it.  How close are you to a nuclear reactor?  I have children, I want them to live a long happy life...not to mention coal burning power plants...Climate change?  "If" climate change is real, and I only say "if" because some still claim that it is only a political thing and not real...anyway if climate change is "real" and gravity driven generators are possible, then we no longer would need coal burning power plants either, and could go back to just using coal for barbecues. 

Otherwise it stands as more proof to me that the "powers that be" actually do not care about you nor I.  Besides if you want to charge your phone they already resolved that...go to PESWIKI, it is called a solid state generator, I'm certain that if it is true and not a hoax, unless it is blocked, it would soon be in every mobile device worth owning.  Hydroelectric dams produce virtually free and there is very little carbon footprint-effect to the planet, if gravity generators could be built of a size to power my home and still fit inconspicuously in my back yard, I am all for true energy independence.

http://pesn.com/2012/11/13/9602218_Mark-Dansie_Demonstrates_Solid-State-Chip_and_Water-Flashlight/

minnie

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Re: Has An Important Property Of Fluids Been Overlooked ?
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2012, 02:42:31 PM »
Hi,
   Michael I take your point. The trouble is that gravity works on the macroscopic side of things and a machine would have to be
very large for a little output. What you have to factor in is the environmental cost of making that machine compared to it's output.
   Virtually all our energy come from the Sun one way or another, save for a bit from fission.
 I share your concerns about nuclear, my 10 yr old daughter was diagnosed with brain cancer, makes you think doesn't it.
I'm sure that direct harvesting of solar, and very importantly storing that energy is  going to be a good way to go.
 I really got interested in this a while back looking at a video of mrwayne's machine. Started me thinking, wouldn't it be nice
to have one of those at my house, but, the more I studied the less I could see it being of any practical use.
                                                            John.

fletcher

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Re: Has An Important Property Of Fluids Been Overlooked ?
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2012, 03:40:36 AM »
Here Is My Concept & Theory In Short:
 
 1. That buoyant force is a result of pressure differentials of which Archimedes volume displacement & uniform fluid density is a sub-set [see Archimedes Paradox re Hydrostatic Paradox].
 
 2. That floatation is a function of buoyancy where buoyant force is in equilibrium with mass weight force.
 
 3. That a mass buoyed by a contained fluid will create pressure in said fluid - the pressure will be transmitted undiminished to all parts of the fluid [as per Pascal's Principle] - the pressure distribution is effectively a redirection of the mass weight force evenly thru the fluid medium even though the weight is the sum of the parts [hydrostatic paradox] - that the greater the mass the greater will be the pressure increase & the buoyancy force [synchronicity].
 
 4. That the torque on the ascending side of such a symmetrical structure will be less than the descending side.
 
 5. That only the vertical component of gravity force is displaced in this way & the horizontal component has a normal effect on the structure, so the proposed Virtual Displacement of Mass effect is maximum at the horizontal orientation & diminishes accordingly.

mondrasek

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Re: Has An Important Property Of Fluids Been Overlooked ?
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2012, 03:21:37 PM »
Thank you, Fletcher.  I'm marking this so I can catch up and follow along.
 
M.

Red_Sunset

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Re: Has An Important Property Of Fluids Been Overlooked ?
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2012, 07:07:11 PM »
Hi Fletcher,
Interesting development on gravity, buoyancy and pressure.
I did an analysis on your post #24, and I need some clarification of the purpose of the central located air bags or spring loaded piston. I guess it is to keep the pressure regulated but I am not clear how that is achieved once the arm is vertical (and mass are horizontal) . The pressure will never be equal within all fluid locations in all positions.
From my initial view, mass2 will be outward as the lever starts turning clockwise,  mass2 position from 1:00 O'clock to 5:00 will be held out by gravity,  this force will be overlapped by pressure a force between 4:30 and 7:30 and by 9:00 O'clock the pressure would have relinquished and gravity will take over have positioned mass2 inward.
Is this a plausible operating mode from your viewpoint or could you give a corrected projection of behavior for the different angle positions.
Regards, Michel

johnny874

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Re: Has An Important Property Of Fluids Been Overlooked ?
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2012, 10:24:43 PM »
Here Is My Concept & Theory In Short:
 
 1. That buoyant force is a result of pressure differentials of which Archimedes volume displacement & uniform fluid density is a sub-set [see Archimedes Paradox re Hydrostatic Paradox].
 
 2. That floatation is a function of buoyancy where buoyant force is in equilibrium with mass weight force.
 
 3. That a mass buoyed by a contained fluid will create pressure in said fluid - the pressure will be transmitted undiminished to all parts of the fluid [as per Pascal's Principle] - the pressure distribution is effectively a redirection of the mass weight force evenly thru the fluid medium even though the weight is the sum of the parts [hydrostatic paradox] - that the greater the mass the greater will be the pressure increase & the buoyancy force [synchronicity].
 
 4. That the torque on the ascending side of such a symmetrical structure will be less than the descending side.
 
 5. That only the vertical component of gravity force is displaced in this way & the horizontal component has a normal effect on the structure, so the proposed Virtual Displacement of Mass effect is maximum at the horizontal orientation & diminishes accordingly.

  Fletcher,
 I get what you are getting at here. I tried discussing something similar along time ago. No one got it.
I tried using 4 bellows, one every 90 degrees to explain how balance shifts. For the design I'm working on, I think you are the only who understood it. The difference with it is instead of pumping water across the wheel, it pumps it around the wheel. This maintains the imbalance as a maximum value of torque.
 I think what everyone is missing when they look at your example is the volume being displaced. If water occupies 1,000 cubic centimeters per kilogram, then a cylinder 1/2 the size could move a little over 1 pound of water with a weight moving the distance
that H equals in PiR^2H=Vol. And if the weights weight 1/2 kg, then working together, the maximum amount of weight they can move is more than 1 kg. Water can also act on itself when moving downward.
 The question to be asked then is how much does the movement of water slow when it is being moved through a tube ? If the tube is the same diameter as the weights or plungers, then it could move fairly quickly.

                                                                                                                    Jim           

Red_Sunset

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Re: Has An Important Property Of Fluids Been Overlooked ?
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2012, 06:10:37 AM »
....................................
 4. That the torque on thes acending side of such a symmetrical structure will be less than the descending side.
 .....................................................

Fletcher,

With further reference to post #23, tossing the idea over for a while,  need some more detail clarifications,

1..  In item #4,  what do you mean with "ascending and descending side" ? , can you define this better to avoid misunderstanding.

2.. Can you confirm that we have a balance of both Masses across the fulcrum ?  The target imbalance is the fluid across the fulcrum.  Can you confirm ?

3..  You also mention "Buoyancy is a function of prressure differential &................  " and " piston has equilibrium of forces,  buoyancy  and weight force"   So the mass is buoyant, and the mass movement effect is not gravity directly, instead it is buoyancy that is the controlling positional movement force ?  The visual picture doesn't seem to conspire to that.  Can you clarify ?

Regards, Michel

johnny874

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Re: Has An Important Property Of Fluids Been Overlooked ?
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2012, 01:19:23 PM »
  Fletch,
 What everyone has missed about Bessler is that if a lever generates 4.9n-m of torque with a 1 kg weight,
with a 3:1 gear down (make 3 stones fly as 1), then you would have 14.7n-m of torque. And if the piston moves 2.5cm's and the 1 kg weight moves 7.5cm's, the fluid being pumped can be moved a greater distance which would all09ow for free energy.  Res sunset, if a weight drops 15 cm's on both sides of the fulcrum, it can move a volume of water PiR^2  15 cm's on the opposing side. If you have 1/2 kg of water, then with a weight moving 15 cm's, the center of mass of the water can be moved to the other side of the fulcrum.

                                                                                                                                    Jim

edited to add; Red Sunset, think of it this way, when the 2 weights on opposite sides of the wheel move downward, the over balance created by the water moves all the way across the wheel.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 03:40:06 PM by johnny874 »

Red_Sunset

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Re: Has An Important Property Of Fluids Been Overlooked ?
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2012, 04:23:36 PM »
  Fletch,
 What everyone has missed about Bessler is that if a lever generates 4.9n-m of torque with a 1 kg weight,
with a 3:1 gear down (make 3 stones fly as 1), then you would have 14.7n-m of torque. And if the piston moves 2.5cm's and the 1 kg weight moves 7.5cm's, the fluid being pumped can be moved a greater distance which would all09ow for free energy.  Res sunset, if a weight drops 15 cm's on both sides of the fulcrum, it can move a volume of water PiR^2  15 cm's on the opposing side. If you have 1/2 kg of water, then with a weight moving 15 cm's, the center of mass of the water can be moved to the other side of the fulcrum.   Jim
edited to add; Red Sunset, think of it this way, when the 2 weights on opposite sides of the wheel move downward, the over balance created by the water moves all the way across the wheel.

Hi Jim,
I can see that the idea is to imbalance the water with the Masses, ok.
The mass movements are initiated / executed by weight (gravity) or buoyancy,  mass2 in the picture appears like held by weight (gravity) by the absence of buoyancy assuming a water sealed piston. Mass1 should take the same position than 2, if buoyancy is the force producer.
Just a matter of understanding the detail correctly
Michel


GreenHiker

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Re: Has An Important Property Of Fluids Been Overlooked ?
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2012, 08:26:38 PM »
I followed along with Fletcher's material from the Bessler wheel site,  until he got to the bouyant weight added to the fluid. It seemed to me that the buoyant weight would have an effect on the balance/weighting of the fluid. I was wrong. I balanced a 4 gallon pot, 3/4 filled with water, on a 3/4" nut (tippy) and pushed a tall (empty) one gallon pitcher down, and around in the pot slowly. It had no effect on the balance of the pot.

So moving right along, has anyone attempted a build yet?