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Author Topic: Successful replication of the Aquion battery technology  (Read 12253 times)

Offline hartiberlin

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Successful replication of the Aquion battery technology
« on: November 08, 2012, 01:32:25 PM »
Hi All,

after Lidmotor having success with my idea to use 2 carbon based electrodes for his
Litharge ( lead oxide ) battery,
see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g4ZBJ8KFbw&feature=plcp
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNhMhzMnwT8&feature=plcp

I pondered how to come up with a different oxide than lead oxide for
such a cell, cause PbO is so toxic...

Then I remembered hearing about the Aquion cell via Mark Dansie in the Smartscarecrow show recently on Youtube...
and I had another look at:


http://www.aquionenergy.com/blog/bid/108285/What-s-Inside-an-Aqueous-Hybrid-Ion-Battery


and saw that they use MnO2, the material that is also used in Zinc Carbon and Alkali Mangan batteries !


So this Manganese dioxide is a real good replacement for the Lead oxide and it is also cheap
and readily availabe, also from old used up batteries ! You will find it at the used up battery disposals
in every supermarket...


Well. This is how I built the cell:

First I used some carbonfiber thread and a graphite pencil lead to fix the next layer of a carbon fiber sheet to it.

This will be the Minus pole in this cell.
Then I put a layer of toilet paper above it and soaked it from above with a concentrated solution of
NaSO4 in destilled water..
Then I poured on this "NaSO4-wetted" toilet separator a good chunk of wet Manganese Dioxide ( MnO2)
and then layed a layer of stainless stell mesh metal onto it.
The stainless steel layer is then the PLUS pole of this battery.

Now I charged this cell up with my battery charger.. ( My DC power supply is still broken...have to get a new one...)
on the 6 Volts setting...

The cell goes to about 2.7 Volts maximum ( mainly due to supercapaitor- double layer effect) and then comes
down to around 1.6 Volts open circuit voltage.

If you shortcircuit it, it will first deliver shortly over 100 mA going down then to around 10 mA after around
a minute or so ( for a about 5 x 10 cm cell, not so much surface area)..

But I could only light an incandescent 1.2 Volts - 0.22 Amps bulb for just under 1 second...

but I was able to light a yellow LED for a few seconds, which has around 1.65 Volts threshold voltage...

Well I have to build myself a Joule Thief now to see, how long such a cell wuíll power this and will do longer tests
now...

Regards, STefan.

P.S: Enclosed 3 pictures, first showing the open circuit voltage of 1.63 Volts,
next the short circuit current of 11.6 mA after about a minute or so
and the next pic lighting the yellow LED after freshly charged.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2012, 08:56:51 PM by hartiberlin »

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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Successful replication of the Aquion battery technology
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2012, 01:49:36 PM »
P.S: What I don´t like about this cell:

It needs this stainless stell mesh as the electron collector from the
MnO2 which makes this cell heavy and expensive...as stainless steel is not cheap....


Just using 2 carbon fiber sheets I had another cell with just lampblack and
MnO2 and NaSO4 with destilled water between 2 carbonfiber sheets,  I got 0.75 Volts and quite a good
amount of mA of current...so only about half the voltage but simular current...

Well, I will work on a mixed oxide electrolyte like mixed MnO2, TiO2 and ZnO
or something like this and try to get the voltage up this way...


Will soon also post videos about it.

STay tuned.

Regards, STefan.


Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Successful replication of the Aquion battery technology
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2012, 01:53:56 PM »
If you want to know more about the Aquion battery,
you can download a PDF file here:

http://www.aquionenergy.com/technology/

You have to quickly register to get it...



Offline b_rads

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Re: Successful replication of the Aquion battery technology
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2012, 07:01:30 PM »
If you want to know more about the Aquion battery,
you can download a PDF file here:

http://www.aquionenergy.com/technology/

You have to quickly register to get it...
Thanks for the link, I got the file and will look it over.  Very interesting build.  I like the idea that they claim this battery is non-toxic.  Would be great if we can avoid lead and acids.
Thanks for the heads-up on this.
Brad


Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Successful replication of the Aquion battery technology
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2012, 08:49:02 PM »
Well, I experimented some further:

You really don´t need the stainless stell mesh current collector plate.

You can replace it with just a good carbon fiber sheet ! ;)
That is a very nice result !

So now we can use the cheaper and lighter carbonfiber sheets and this also allows
us to easier roll up the cells and maybe make them more suited for
electric cars, as the weight is thus reduced also  greatly ! ;)

I can get now the same voltages and currents from just the 2 carbon fiber sheets as the electrodes
as was before with the one carbonfiber and stainless steel electrodes...

It seems one has to  charge them some more minutes  so they polarize okay and the ions have time
to go into the materials internally...


Now I will see, if I can get even more current and voltage by mixing in more other alkaline
oxide components like TiO2, ZnO and also try mixed electrolytes like adding MgSO4
and/or Alum....

Maybe this will power up these cells even more ?

We will see...


Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Successful replication of the Aquion battery technology
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2012, 08:49:02 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Successful replication of the Aquion battery technology
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2012, 01:26:26 AM »
Hi All,
Lidmotor also replicated it and verified it here,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Azgh6NIFd1U

P.S:
My hands were also pretty dirty, cause I used no gloves and also disassembled an Alkali Manganese D-Cell !

Wash the MnO2 at least 5 to 6 times with water until you get it to PH level 7.

If you remove it and just use it, it still has PH level 12 from all the KOH from the inside of the Zinc container from the
D-cell battery... So you really have to wash it several times to get the PH level down..
 Be carefulll there with the centered Zinc container.
It contains highly concentrated KOH !
If you spill this and get it into your eyes, it could blind you ! So wear safety glasses !
You can still make the cell more powerfull if you add lampblack or graphite powder to the paste or to each charcoal rod... ( better uise carbonfiber sheets for the electrodes )
Regards, Stefan.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Successful replication of the Aquion battery technology
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2012, 01:46:22 AM »
P.S: YOu can get MnO2 from either an Alkali Manganeseoxide Cell or
from a Zinc-Carbon cell.

Best use D-Cells for it, cause then you get enough of this powder.


But there is a difference between these 2 types of cells !

At the Zinc-Carbon cell the MnO2 sits in the center around the positive pole´s graphite rod
and at the Alkaline Mangnese cell the MnO2 sits at the outer stainless steel casing, more like a donat
shell...

I used an Alkaline Maganese D-cell battery to get my MnO2 and Lidmotor probably used
a Zinc Carbon cell, as he also got the graphite rod from it...

Here is a good overview of the inner structures of both these different cells:

http://www.doitpoms.ac.uk/tlplib/batteries/batteries_zn_c.php

http://www.doitpoms.ac.uk/tlplib/batteries/batteries_alkaline_mno.php

Hope this helps to extract the MnO2 safely from these batteries and remember to wear
gloves and safety glasses !

Regards, Stefan.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Successful replication of the Aquion battery technology
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2012, 01:46:22 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Successful replication of the Aquion battery technology
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2012, 02:12:07 AM »
P.S:

To the ones who don´t have carbonfiber sheets and want to quickly replicate these homemade rechargeable cells:

If you disassemble 2 Zinc Carbon D-Cells you will have 2  graphite rods from it and
these 2 graphite rods will be good  for the electrodes...

So to all out there who don´t have charcoal rods like Lidmotor used them, just get 2 Zinc-Carbon D-Cells and you will
have all the stuff you need ! ;)

Just add lampblack or graphite powder to the MnO2 mix or around these graphite rods and this will enhance the power density even more !
You can also usefor the electrolyte  Epsom salt or Alum or NaSO4.
not much difference.
Good luck !

Regards, Stefan.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Successful replication of the Aquion battery technology
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2012, 02:19:42 AM »
To form the battery do the following;

Charge and discharge them with  a 6 Volts battery or a battery charger put on 6 Volts.
( you can also use a 12 volts battery but this will heat it up much more and might
break the cell early on...)

If you use a multimeter or ampmeter to do it,
charge the cell with about 1.5 Amps and if you shortcircuit it then
it will start with around 150 mA and it will drops down then.

Discharge to around 10 milliAmps shortcircuit current shown on the ampmeter. Not lower...!
Then begin to recharge again.
Do this a few more times.

Hope this helps.

Regards, Stefan.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 03:20:52 AM by hartiberlin »

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Successful replication of the Aquion battery technology
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2012, 02:38:27 AM »
P.S: 6 Volts Latern batteries also have graphite rods in them which are also bigger than D-Cell graphite rods.

Also you can get pretty nice graphite rods from a painters shop.
There they also have real graphite rods and not just charcoal rods...

Charcoal rods are probably cheaper, but they don´t conduct very well... so graphite rods are prefered,
but better order some carbon fiber sheets from ebay like these ones:

Carbon Fiber Sheet

Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Successful replication of the Aquion battery technology
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2012, 02:38:27 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Successful replication of the Aquion battery technology
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2012, 04:18:37 PM »
Lidmotor has a new video out about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzfnIQHu4bI

 I wanted to show my cell already yeasterday in a new video, but I decided to first build a JouleThief/JouleRinger, but had trouble with my electronic components, etc....
So I still have first to get the JouleThief to run well, so I can show my cell running this...
Stay tuned.
Regards, Stefan.
 

 

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