Author Topic: Friction heater running in my house (Read 168625 times)

mscoffman · « **Reply #30 on:** November 27, 2012, 07:39:40 PM »

ramset,

I believe that this kind of furnace is indeed running on these principles. So this is not
the pure friction causing the heating;

1 - is there a hydrogen bearing liquid in the unit - yes, motor oil is a hydrocarbon
2- is the bear metal exposed to this fluid - yes, I would assume so in the metal plates
3- is there a mechanical means of injecting "phonons" into the liquid - yes the AC electric motor

If one has a working unit the above suggests that there may be experimental variables
that one could easily try to confirm the presents of LENR occuring in this unit. For example
a sealing coating on the plates should defeat LENR from occurring there, so that
working unit suddenly "sealed" might suddenly stop cease producing excess energy.
The same with using a non hydrogen bearing working fluid liquid.

The key thing is that if this is LENR energy, then the "transfer function" of input to
output energy (or COP) will be relatively complicated. This complexity is what
defeats normal analysis of people who don't use the correct operational
model and what causes people who measure the output to often times
come out with wrong answers. For example using a variable viscosity
fluid should not be used - using as much as possible a fluid that has a constant
viscosity with temperature would be highly desirable.

Imagine the complexity if the viscosity of the working fluid *is* variable
with temperature. Actually LENR increases in output efficiency might occur
over only part of the working temperature range. Now you try to optimize
the efficiency by tuning the motor to an operating point with a mechanical
load that is fluctuating all over the place, one would probably not be very successful.
This is why it would be advisable to understand what the transfer function curve
actually is, and then both broaden the curve along with trying to find the maximum
operating point. Notice too this means pulling heat off the unit by a method
that is relatively constant and non-turbulent.

:S:MarkSCoffman

ramset · « **Reply #31 on:** November 27, 2012, 08:59:07 PM »

mscoffman

Possibilities?
Many things are in motion in this device,working with fluids and tension/pressure as well as what can manifest during a spin.

Gabriel is a wonderful person and true open source engineer.
I believe this is going to the next level [calorimetry].

Thx
Chet
PS
I see AP posted below
Sir this is... and will remain an open source project.[Gabriels choice] unlike the troubled business venture of Rossi.[I believe there are several threads for that already]

JouleSeeker · « **Reply #32 on:** November 28, 2012, 01:49:38 AM »

Quote from: oilpiggy on November 02, 2012, 05:06:47 PM

This concept is not a new one its how it is done is what makes it. I don't think by any means is it "OU" but It is a very cheap way for me to make heat.
I am working on drafting off some of the heat to make power to supply some of the power to make it run even cheaper.

I don't like the term "OU" either, because it implies (or connotes) a violation of the laws of physics, especially, the law of conservation of energy. "Free energy" also implies "something from nothing", which tends to invite ridicule.

But in one of your vids you said your heating bill went from about $200 / mo to $30/mo IIRC... This suggests something very interesting -- One might call it "Tapping a previously unused (perhaps unknown) source of energy" - tapping PUSE.

(I would recommend use of a term like PUSE "previously unused (perhaps unknown) source of energy" instead of "free energy" to clarify things.)

Your work reminds me of the Davey device that vibrates water and presumably produces xs heat (or rather, taps PUSE).

This device also comes to mind, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh_-DUKQ4Uw&feature=related

Hmmm... water has interesting properties along with some other liquids.

Thanks for sharing, oilpiggy and everyone!

oilpiggy · « **Reply #33 on:** November 29, 2012, 03:15:39 AM »

Quote from: Doug1 on November 26, 2012, 05:28:28 PM

I wonder if Oilpiggy has checked his plates for signs of magnetic feilds. They could have become magnetic when they were made and may have a slight induction breaking effect aiding the thermal output. If I ever build another I will certainly employ the addvantage. If induction heating were aproached the way tank circuits are made to resonate I guess that might be an improvement. Turn the entire unit into a spinning capacitor in oil with a residual static field to boot.

Hello

Its not that they were magnetized during the machining, I magnetized them before installing the discs. Its nice that you picked up on that

I am sure there is a resonance going on here. That has not been tested for but it will be.

Thank you
Gabriel

JouleSeeker · « **Reply #34 on:** December 01, 2012, 04:30:48 AM »

Quote from: oilpiggy on November 29, 2012, 03:15:39 AM

Hello

Its not that they were magnetized during the machining, I magnetized them before installing the discs. Its nice that you picked up on that I am sure there is a resonance going on here. That has not been tested for but it will be.

Thank you
Gabriel

Hi, Gabriel -- intriguing information: "I magnetized them before installing the discs. Its nice that you picked up on that"

So, how were they magnetized? North poles up (for example) on all disks, or what? Do these disks hold much magnetization I wonder?
Or could a guy put an EXTERNAL magnet on the outside of the casing?

PS -- I'm VERY impressed by the engineering and work that went into your design.
Thanks,
Steve

oilpiggy · « **Reply #35 on:** December 03, 2012, 01:01:43 AM »

Quote from: JouleSeeker on December 01, 2012, 04:30:48 AM

Hi, Gabriel -- intriguing information: "I magnetized them before installing the discs. Its nice that you picked up on that"

So, how were they magnetized? North poles up (for example) on all disks, or what? Do these disks hold much magnetization I wonder?
Or could a guy put an EXTERNAL magnet on the outside of the casing?

PS -- I'm VERY impressed by the engineering and work that went into your design.
Thanks,
Steve

Hello Steve, and thank you.

The discs are north then south then north... Etc. etc. etc. This all helps with a few different aspects of the core itself.

Thank you
Gabriel

Doug1 · « **Reply #36 on:** December 03, 2012, 09:17:49 PM »

Oilpiggy
Ever give any thought to heating up a disk and brushing it with a brass or bronze wire brush so it coats the plate the way some people apply a coating to cast iron statues or ornamental work for the stationary disks?

oilpiggy · « **Reply #37 on:** December 06, 2012, 12:28:06 PM »

Quote from: Doug1 on December 03, 2012, 09:17:49 PM

Oilpiggy
Ever give any thought to heating up a disk and brushing it with a brass or bronze wire brush so it coats the plate the way some people apply a coating to cast iron statues or ornamental work for the stationary disks?

Hello

Nope I have not done anything to coat the discs. With what you are proposing what do you think the out come would be?

Doug1 · « **Reply #38 on:** December 06, 2012, 01:46:25 PM »

Different materials may lend themselves to heating up better then others .they may also transfer heat to the liguid better then others. If your disks are performing some sort of induction heating effect from being magnatized and in motion against one another. You may want to investigate how you can or if you can include the effects of a homopolar dynomo motor gen arangment to. An oil filled cylinder would have the addvantage of using the oil as an insulator with motion giving capacitense to the alternate plates while they are turning.
There is plenty of prior data from various sources wich could give you months experimenting with your device. Altimately to get it to put out the most heat with the least amount of input from the drive motor. Then there is always the chance you could trip over some other effect along the way that you could use elswhere.

Here is a video for ya http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzmHGmAqMJc Im not sugjesting you go for this level of heat cause it would creap up to the motor and catch fire. I will see if I can locate the the dynomo study paper and pass that along to you once I find it. You can read Teslas notes on the unipolar dynomo yourself on the net. Phase shift tricks to lead in or recombine to increase work with out increasing input. Consumption becomes additive to input like recycling ,the shift in the phase of reinput seams to be that trick.

mscoffman · « **Reply #39 on:** December 06, 2012, 09:20:48 PM »

@oilpiggy,

*You* know whether your furnace device outputs extra heat energy or not because 1HP =~ 800Watts.
800Watts equals one half the heat output of one of those 1500Watt nichrome and plastic room heater/fans.
So 800Watts would not capable of heating a room much less a whole house. So you know whether this
device really works or not.

My Idea;

So let us assume oilpiggy's heater produces energy gain. I therefore propose this idea. It would be interesting
and neat to combine your furnace design with a ROV Rotoverter motor and generator overunity device like
depicted in the link;

http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Motor-Alternator_Self-Looped_System_by_Joe_Tomicki

The combined device should then be capable of outputing lots of heat while simultaneously recharging 1/2 its
battery bank so as to not require *any* utility connection.

Here are some benefits of this approach;

1) A single high efficiency (DC) motor is required for both processes.
2) The devices subsystem are sized as required for continuous operation.
3) No Utility Line Voltage is required since the energy loop is primarily distributed by mechanical shaft.
4) No Line Voltage inverter is required - no cost - no high voltages - unit will be extremely safe
5) A Large power off switch or Key switch would be required so the device doesn't accidently start up while in storage.
6) If... the deep cycle discharge batteries use room temperature heat to recharge - the furnace device's energy gain
produces the extra heat required.
7) A remote thermostatic device of some type would be required.

Here is how I would build such the heater;
6 deep cycle discharge (marine trolling) batteries 3 in series to the drive motor 3 in parallel to recharge via the alternator.
6 CMOS NE555 configured as a VFC voltage to frequency converters to monitor each battery voltage independently
without forming any DC groundloops.
1 custom constructed lucite plastic mercury tilt switches to reconfigure the batteries.
1 tilt switch is driven by small DC gearmotor. tilt left => battery bank 1 in parallel battery bank 2 in series
tilt right => battery bank 2 in parallel battery bank 1 in series.
1 microcontroller processor - control for above.

Neat, Aye?

:S:MarkSCoffman

oilpiggy · « **Reply #40 on:** December 06, 2012, 10:24:46 PM »

Quote from: mscoffman on December 06, 2012, 09:20:48 PM

@oilpiggy,

*You* know whether your furnace device outputs extra heat energy or not because 1HP =~ 800Watts.
800Watts equals one half the heat output of one of those 1500Watt nichrome and plastic room heater/fans.
So 800Watts would not capable of heating a room much less a whole house. So you know whether this
device really works or not.

My Idea;

So let us assume oilpiggy's heater produces energy gain. I therefore propose this idea. It would be interesting
and neat to combine your furnace design with a ROV Rotoverter motor and generator overunity device like
depicted in the link;

http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Motor-Alternator_Self-Looped_System_by_Joe_Tomicki

The combined device should then be capable of outputing lots of heat while simultaneously recharging 1/2 its
battery bank so as to not require *any* utility connection.

Here are some benefits of this approach;

1) A single high efficiency (DC) motor is required for both processes.
2) The devices subsystem are sized as required for continuous operation.
3) No Utility Line Voltage is required since the energy loop is primarily distributed by mechanical shaft.
4) No Line Voltage inverter is required - no cost - no high voltages - unit will be extremely safe
5) A Large power off switch or Key switch would be required so the device doesn't accidently start up while in storage.
6) If... the deep cycle discharge batteries use room temperature heat to recharge - the furnace device's energy gain
produces the extra heat required.
7) A remote thermostatic device of some type would be required.

Here is how I would build such the heater;
6 deep cycle discharge (marine trolling) batteries 3 in series to the drive motor 3 in parallel to recharge via the alternator.
6 CMOS NE555 configured as a VFC voltage to frequency converters to monitor each battery voltage independently
without forming any DC groundloops.
1 custom constructed lucite plastic mercury tilt switches to reconfigure the batteries.
1 tilt switch is driven by small DC gearmotor. tilt left => battery bank 1 in parallel battery bank 2 in series
tilt right => battery bank 2 in parallel battery bank 1 in series.
1 microcontroller processor - control for above.

Neat, Aye?

:S:MarkSCoffman

Hello Mark,

Well it looks like your going to have fun playing around with this.
The wattage that is being used to heat my house.... I guess I am not going to beat the dead horse but, It is heating my house for the amount of power I am stated. There is not much more to say about this.
I have posted my findings and now it is up to people to do it them self's I guess.
I do like your plans, Why don't you just run a DC motor like the UFO motor? Seems a lot less complicated.
Anyways at the end of the day my heating bill is still a hell of a lot cheaper then it was and that is all that matters to me.
Best wishes

Thank you
Gabriel

oilpiggy · « **Reply #41 on:** December 06, 2012, 10:28:24 PM »

Quote from: Doug1 on December 06, 2012, 01:46:25 PM

Different materials may lend themselves to heating up better then others .they may also transfer heat to the liguid better then others. If your disks are performing some sort of induction heating effect from being magnatized and in motion against one another. You may want to investigate how you can or if you can include the effects of a homopolar dynomo motor gen arangment to. An oil filled cylinder would have the addvantage of using the oil as an insulator with motion giving capacitense to the alternate plates while they are turning.
There is plenty of prior data from various sources wich could give you months experimenting with your device. Altimately to get it to put out the most heat with the least amount of input from the drive motor. Then there is always the chance you could trip over some other effect along the way that you could use elswhere.

Here is a video for ya http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzmHGmAqMJc Im not sugjesting you go for this level of heat cause it would creap up to the motor and catch fire. I will see if I can locate the the dynomo study paper and pass that along to you once I find it. You can read Teslas notes on the unipolar dynomo yourself on the net. Phase shift tricks to lead in or recombine to increase work with out increasing input. Consumption becomes additive to input like recycling ,the shift in the phase of reinput seams to be that trick.

Thank you Doug1
It is worth looking into

Doug1 · « **Reply #42 on:** December 07, 2012, 09:59:20 PM »

*You* know whether your furnace device outputs extra heat energy or not because 1HP =~ 800Watts.
800Watts equals one half the heat output of one of those 1500Watt nichrome and plastic room heater/fans.
So 800Watts would not capable of heating a room much less a whole house. So you know whether this
device really works or not.*

When did HP become equal to BTU's? Even in terms of a compressor system the quality of the compressor should be accounted for against its power consumption. If I apply 800 watts to a ceramic heater and 800 watts to a motor to make it turn when did the turning motor become a heat source? At the friction device I do believe. So how do you measure the effective results of the heater off the motor input or output when the motor is not the heat source?
I guess heat recovery systems are not note worthy iether since the heat source was a 100% loss even if you manage to recover 60% of the heat that would be expelled into the atmosphere. Same math.

Doug1 · « **Reply #43 on:** December 07, 2012, 10:28:01 PM »

I decided to look it up and sure enough 1 hp is equal to 2544.43 btu's How many btu's do you get from a nicrome heater in btu's?

DeepCut · « **Reply #44 on:** December 08, 2012, 06:02:20 AM »

Anyone in contact with Luc ?

I'm getting no replies on email or YT messages

Thanks,

DC.

News:

User Menu

Author Topic: Friction heater running in my house (Read 168625 times)

mscoffman

Re: Friction heater running in my house

ramset

Re: Friction heater running in my house

JouleSeeker

Re: Friction heater running in my house

oilpiggy

Re: Friction heater running in my house

JouleSeeker

Re: Friction heater running in my house

oilpiggy

Re: Friction heater running in my house

Doug1

Re: Friction heater running in my house

oilpiggy

Re: Friction heater running in my house

Doug1

Re: Friction heater running in my house

mscoffman

Re: Friction heater running in my house

oilpiggy

Re: Friction heater running in my house

oilpiggy

Re: Friction heater running in my house

Doug1

Re: Friction heater running in my house

Doug1

Re: Friction heater running in my house

DeepCut

Re: Friction heater running in my house