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Author Topic: Graham Gunderson?s dragless generator patent, Lenz law violation !  (Read 59377 times)

Offline hartiberlin

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Hello,
for those of you being a few years already in the free energy scene and being
on my old Yahoogroups list, you probably remember Graham Gunderson,
who did a lot of research in strange coils setups and who claimed to have
invented a dragless generator.

It seems he joined Magnetic Power Inc. and now here is his
patent about his dragless generator, that seems to violate LENZ law.

Pretty clever Graham ! Congratulations !

Hope to seen your gadget being produced and introduced worldwide !
Here is the patent with a lot of drawings and circuit diagram:

http://www.magneticpowerinc.com/mpi-patentapplication.pdf

Regards, Stefan

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Graham Gunderson?s dragless generator patent, Lenz law violation !
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2006, 12:23:27 AM »
I now had a closer look at this design and I was wrong, it is no a mechanical
generator, but a solid state overunity type transformer...!

It seems it is required that all 3 fields,
input coil field , Permanent magnet field and output coil
field must be in 90 degrees orthogonal relationship to each other,
so 2 of them can cancel out, which is the output coil field with the
permanent magnet field, so the input coil?s
field is not much affected and thus no drag is put onto the input coil?s field.
Is this correct ?

It is pretty complicated to grasp.
Regards, Stefan.

Offline Liberty

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Re: Graham Gunderson?s dragless generator patent, Lenz law violation !
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2006, 02:16:21 AM »
Interesting patent application.  Wonder if the patent guys will frown on the Lentz law violation?  ???

Comment:  It appears to me that the magnets are on top of the ring and also in attract on the bottom of the ring.  (Flux flowing vertically through the ring from Permanent magnet to Permanent magnet).  Then the coil that weaves in and out horizontally through the center of the ring between flux flow points collects the magnetic flux change caused by the input 'push coil' of the other vertically wound coil around the ring.  The collector coil receives the "pushed/deflected" magnetic flux, causing an induced current in the horizontal looped winding for output.  Apparently more power is able to be collected in the output coil than is expended in the excite 'push' coil.  It also appears that one can stack these devices, making better use of the magnets.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2006, 03:08:28 AM by Liberty »

Offline mark australia

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Re: Graham Gunderson?s dragless generator patent, Lenz law violation !
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2006, 07:35:48 AM »
Dear Liberty, Tao's post goes along the lines of recent communications i have had with you re the demag issue on other devices..
Kind regards
mark

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Graham Gunderson?s dragless generator patent, Lenz law violation !
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2006, 07:45:28 AM »
I think, as the counter field from the output current will stay inside the core, the permanent
magnets from Graham?s patent will not demagnetize as the field will never
go to the level of -Hc which would be required to weaken the magnets...
So I guess this is a very safe unit which will not demagnetize the magnets in our live-time.

I think this is the smartest design of a solid state free energy device I have seen so far
and indeed I always trusted Graham to be a genuine inventor with all his very clever
ideas and smart thinking and experiments.

He also had a real mechanical dragless generator already a few years back, which was
a mechanical design, but had too many losses in the gears he was using, he told me at this time..

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Graham Gunderson?s dragless generator patent, Lenz law violation !
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2006, 07:45:28 AM »
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jake

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Re: Graham Gunderson?s dragless generator patent, Lenz law violation !
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2006, 01:40:40 PM »
It's interesting.  Wouldn't be too hard to build a prototype to test the principle.


Offline Liberty

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Re: Graham Gunderson?s dragless generator patent, Lenz law violation !
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2006, 02:53:19 PM »
All I has to say is, wow.

Read this page describing the patent posted above by hartiberlin:
http://magneticpowerinc.com/patent.html

Mark Goldes says " Following construction of a successful prototype, a U.S. patent application was filed covering this advanced electrical generator."

To me that means that the device indeed works, and if the device does indeed work, then this is IT.

My ONLY QUESTION for Mark Goldes would be:

The patent states that the magnets can become demagnetized, was this a necessary addition for trying to get the Patent office to pass the Patent, or do the magnets really become demagnetized?

AND
If the magnets become demagnetized, how long, or, how much energy could be used from a given setup before the magnets lost thier magnetization?



It would be interesting to see output figures per module (to know how many modules are needed to produce a given amount of power) and approx. cost per module.  Also Tao's question about magnet life would be nice to know the answer to. 
« Last Edit: July 28, 2006, 06:30:18 PM by Liberty »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Graham Gunderson?s dragless generator patent, Lenz law violation !
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2006, 02:53:19 PM »
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Offline FredWalter

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Re: Graham Gunderson?s dragless generator patent, Lenz law violation !
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2006, 03:06:42 PM »
It's interesting.  Wouldn't be too hard to build a prototype to test the principle.

It wouldn't be to hard... for someone with access to CNC machining equipment.

If your prototype works, can you make the CAD drawings available here, along with a material list, and photos of your prototype?

jake

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Re: Graham Gunderson?s dragless generator patent, Lenz law violation !
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2006, 03:45:53 PM »
Quote
It wouldn't be to hard... for someone with access to CNC machining equipment.

You could build a test device with an electric drill and a hack saw!

Cut off a short piece of iron pipe and drill some holes in it.  Stick the magnets to the sides, lace some wire through it, and presto!  There it is!

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Graham Gunderson?s dragless generator patent, Lenz law violation !
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2006, 04:31:03 AM »

I'd say the easiest way would be to buy a nice toroidal transformer core and drill holes in it.

Place the proper amount of NdFeb magnets on the core above the proper holes.

Wind the output wire(magnet wire) through the holes and wind the input wire(magnet wire) around the whole unit, magnets and all(as the patent suggests).

Power the thing with a series resonant circuit like the patent suggests and power a load indefinitely...


Yes, Tao,
this is the same, what I also just thought, how to do it.
The question is, how big in diameter the holes should be maimum
and if it is better to have many output coil windings going through the
holes with very small diameter wire or just lower turns with bigger diameter
wire, so if it is much better to go for more output voltage or more output current.
Normally you get the maximum output power out of a power supply or device,
if you use the same load resistance as the inner resistance of the device,
so if you want to get 100 Watts out, you would also heat the output windings
with 100 Watts too, if the impedances match !
So this is why normally you don?t match the inner resistance with the load resistance,
so less output power is drawn  but then also the wasted inner resistance power
is also much less.

But for the input coils I would use very big diameter wire and only use about 10 to 100 Windings or so,
to have a very low ohmic resistance and also low inductance, so the frequency could be put
into the Khz range.
If you use a higher frequency you will also get more voltage and thus more power out.
Thus with a matched capacitance at the resonance frequency of the input LC circuit
you would need very low input power and due to low ohmic resistance of the coil would
have low ohmic losses at the resonance frequency for the input current.

The question I still have, is, if it is better to
1. use many holes in short distances and thus
have more voltage at lower turn windingsnumbers and
use only smaller sized magnets ontop and onbottom of the core
or
2. have less holes in the core with bigger hole diameters and have
thus more winding-turn-numbers through them for higher output voltage
and have less and bigger magnets on them ?

What is better, 1. or 2. ?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Graham Gunderson?s dragless generator patent, Lenz law violation !
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2006, 04:31:03 AM »
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Offline mark australia

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Re: Graham Gunderson?s dragless generator patent, Lenz law violation !
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2006, 01:11:42 PM »
Hi ,It would be a good idea if this group did buid one as I am sure they havnt got one working at the moment. Why dont you email them and ask them if they surrently have a working prototype producing continuos power?.
I have seen so many projects in this and many other forums where people asume it works because they have a patent application.
What I live for is any device with ou claims that has been made availabel for independent testing and evaluation. Just have a look at the current forums here, Torbay? Hilden? Steven Marks device? Cycclone? Lutec? Gravity Wheels?
and the list goes on. Have any of these devices had independent validation?
This is a great forum for exchanging ideas and developing them.  However please dont make any assumptions about any working devices until they have passed independent scrutiny.
Kind Regards
Mark

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Graham Gunderson?s dragless generator patent, Lenz law violation !
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2006, 09:02:13 PM »
Mark,
have a look at this page,
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Magnetic_Power_Inc

there you can see their test bench with the device
on there probably the one after the 2 scopes.
You can see there the core of a transformer...
I wonder what the most right thing is ?
Maybe the output load ?

joule

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Re: Graham Gunderson?s dragless generator patent, Lenz law violation !
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2006, 10:28:45 PM »
As with most patents (applications) you don't have to give away the secret and it appears from reading the application that they do not. Why is this so different from the MEG? Special core material, yes they say soft iron, but I doubt its what you get at the scrap yard. The timing appears to be critical, you will not be able to just throw it together and get power, you will have to work out the math so it works as proposed.

My question is, was it on purpose that they did not indicate that the loop can be closed? They do say that Lenz did not apply, but so why not go all the way and say once it starts is self powers? Did not see mention in the application.

Additionally they are saying in the app that they are covering all forms (shapes) and methods, would this not if granted stop any one else from using perm magnets in a device?

Just some open thoughts.

Offline tishatang

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Re: Graham Gunderson?s dragless generator patent, Lenz law violation !
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2006, 07:15:37 AM »
Hi all,

About a month ago I won on Ebay three current transformers.  Stated that they had 800:5 current ratio.  I thought that they were a toroidal transformer with 800 turns primary and 5 turns secondary.  I opened one up and was disappointed that all they were was a ferrite core about 4 inches ID and only one coil about 18 guage wound around the core.  This explained why there were only two leads instead of 4.

I was disappointed and said to myself "well there goes $20 for something I will probably never use."

And now comes this thread and these ferrite cores and wire are exactly what I need to build this device!

I don't know what a ferrite core with a diameter of 4 to 5 inches would normally cost, but I got three of these current transformers for $20.  There might be others available?

Does anyone know how to drill a hole through a ferrite core?  They are probably very brittle and fragile?
I am thinking of getting diamond drills and starting with small holes first.

Tishatang

Offline Nali2001

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Re: Graham Gunderson?s dragless generator patent, Lenz law violation !
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2006, 11:01:44 PM »
Yeah I worked on ferrite before.
You need some high speed drill like a dremel
http://images.google.nl/images?svnum=10&hl=nl&lr=&safe=off&q=dremel
and a diamond tool.
http://images.google.nl/images?svnum=10&hl=nl&lr=&safe=off&q=dremel+diamond
Works great. Good luck.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Graham Gunderson?s dragless generator patent, Lenz law violation !
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2006, 11:01:44 PM »

 

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