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Author Topic: how fast?  (Read 16330 times)

Offline chowdan

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how fast?
« on: October 11, 2012, 12:39:26 AM »
Hi guys.

haven't been on this forum in a very long time.

I have a few questions. If you took a disc, say 3ft in diameter(random size i picked), how would you calculate how fast the disc had to rotate before it would have enough force to lift it off the ground?

What would the calculation be and how does one figure out the calculation?

After thinking about all these circular shaped "ufos", i thought, what if they are just spining so god damn fast to keep themselves in the air? Granted im sure most of you have seen only videos that contained "lights" or photos of these "ufos". But how do we know they aren't actually spinning?

I imagined a aircraft that is a disc shape, but yet, the structure of the craft was similar to a bicycle wheel. If you take a bicycle wheel and stick a rod through the center(where it mounts on the bike) you are able to spin the wheel while the rod is stationary. What if we took this idea/concept and applied it towards a flying vehicle? The outer section of the disk shaped craft could be spinning while the center of the craft would be stationary (although being on the inside of a craft spinning at such speeds might be kind of interesting way to commit suicide).

Would this be a possible design? Has anyone ever attempted such designs on model or full scale?

I'm open to hear what people have to say, so let your ideas loose!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

how fast?
« on: October 11, 2012, 12:39:26 AM »

Offline cristache

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Re: how fast?
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2012, 01:22:29 AM »
Why it would lift if you spin it?
Hmm..
Let's say you have a ring 1 meter diameter (little more than 3 feet) for calculation simplicity
Let's say if you spin that ring fast enough the linear speed of the ring will be so high that the centrifugal force relative to earth center will exceed gravity.
Let's assume it will work
then we need 2mv^2/d >= mg (that is centrifugal force bigger than gravity pull)
simplified:
2v^2/d > g
or v > sqrt(gd/2) - (that's square root)
where:
v - rim velocity in meter/sec
d - earth diameter in meter (12,715,430)
g - gravitational constant, aprox 10m/sec^2
v should be greater than 7,973 meters/second (that's almost 5 miles per second)
give the ring diameter of 1 meter that would translate into
rotations per second = v / (pi d) = 2,539
or in rpm 152,340
Let's say you can spin something that fast (thinking here a toroid instead of ring with mercury plasma confined in magnetic field)
for a mass of 1 kg of plasma spinning that fast around 1 m diameter torus the centrifugal force is
m v^2 / r = 1 kg x 7,973 x 7,973 / 0.5 = 127,137,458 N.
That is 12.7 tons of force (28 million pounds force). What material can resist this pressure?
Or how much energy you need to put in the confining magnetic field to maintain the plasma inside?


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline cristache

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Re: how fast?
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2012, 01:38:37 AM »
So if you have a 10 meter diameter ufo the force reduces to 1.27 tons.
Now it depends on the surface that 1 Kg is pushing.
assuming 100 square centimeters (4" x 4" aprox) and let's say A36 steel with yield strength of 250 MPa (mega Pascal, 1 Pascal = 0.1 Kg/square meter
The calculated pressure is
1,270 Kg / 0.1 (100 square centimeters in square meters) = 12 MPa which is under A36 steel capability so yes it will work
Question is how do you spin it that fast. I mean you realize cannot be something mechanical at 10 meter diameter.
A jet engine might spin 30,000 rpm and diameter is way smaller and you need 150,000 rpm


Offline Neo-X

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Re: how fast?
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2012, 03:33:52 AM »
It is possible to lift a metal disc by spinning it extremely fast but it would need lots of energy because of friction. A real ufo doesnt have a spinning disc but instead a super magnetic fluid which has zero friction so that it can rotate extremely fast in a enclosed donut container thats why ufo has a dics shape. But the question is how can a ufo make a side way propulsion? How can it make sharp turn? How can it cancel the effect of inertia? How can it fly without friction? Why it doesnt make a sonic boom? How they can travel extremely fast unaffected by solar flare, space dust particle and small rocks.


Offline cristache

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Re: how fast?
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2012, 03:55:24 AM »
If they do they should have 2 spinning masses, or whatever, in opposite directions, both creating a counter centrifugal force against earth center.
But I'm more in the favor of manipulating electro-magnetic fields.
Whittaker (http://www.rexresearch.com/whittakr/whittakr.htm) makes a demonstration which tells the laplace equation driven phenomena (electrostatic law and gravitation law) can be created by longitudinal standing waves.
Tesla was mentioning a spacecraft with a high DC voltage on the upper shell and high frequency high voltage on the lower shell will create propulsion
Tesla was saying the high frequency, HV on the lower shell will "rigidify" the aether - that sounds to work hand in hand with Whittaker longitudinal waves
Also the HV DC on the upper shell might destroy the longitudinal vibrations due to biasing them.
Paulo and Alexandra Correa have a patent where from a small tesla coil a wire from the secondary capacitor begin connected to a small sheet of gold, reduced the sheet weight.
There was an experimental numerical calculation with a sphere in a medium where there were a lot of oscillators of different frequencies. The end result was a pressure on the sphere, much like we feel the gravity but we say it's a pull. I strongly believe is a push from outside based on all the above.
Why nobody could measure a very sensitive pendulum displacement next to a big mountain (big mass) to prove Newton theory?
Besides newton gives a measure to the force but no explanation.
Einstein space-time curvature is a non-sense. What a heck is space-time. That's a convention in calculus, a metric we measure something (x,y,x,time)


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: how fast?
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2012, 03:55:24 AM »
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Offline Neo-X

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Re: how fast?
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2012, 04:07:34 AM »
Einstein space-time curvature
is a non-sense. What a heck is
space-time. That's a
convention in calculus, a
metric we measure something (x,y,x,time)

-end of quote-

Its not a nonsense, it means time and space can change and it also means that time travel and teleportation are possible.

Offline cristache

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Re: how fast?
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2012, 04:10:06 AM »
What do you mean by time can change? What is changing?
What do you mean by space can change? What's your definition of space?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: how fast?
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2012, 04:10:06 AM »
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Offline Neo-X

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Re: how fast?
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2012, 04:16:14 AM »
Every object that was moving has a different time but it is not noticiable beacause the difference was extremely small. It will become noticiable only if u will going to travel extremely fast. For example if u was travelling at half of speed light, your time is much slower compared to the earth time so will aged much slower. That means you are in slow motion.

Offline cristache

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Re: how fast?
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2012, 04:23:34 AM »
A different time compared with what?
So you do accept that you measure something, so time is a measurable entity and we measure it with a clock or something.
So a time change is the difference between the time showed a while ago compared with the time showed by the same measuring device now while observing something.
Is this a proof of "space-time curvature as source of gravity"? I believe not.
And talking about time while in high speed and at low speed. Remember the twin paradox? One travels speed of light the other is on earth stationary, the one which traveler comes back younger than the other one. Think of this, according with Einstein theory all observable phenomenons should respect the same laws regardless of the referential system. So let's put the reference system on the rocket (everything is relative, no?) and now the earth is moving with speed of light compared with the rocket. We're in agreement with Einstein!
So who's older now, the one on earth or the one on the rocket?

I still don't have a definition of "space" from your...

Offline Neo-X

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Re: how fast?
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2012, 04:32:37 AM »
Ofcourse the one on the earth was the older. Time goes slow when u travel faster. Time also goes slow when u are on planet that has high mass or gravity.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: how fast?
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2012, 04:32:37 AM »
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Offline cristache

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Re: how fast?
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2012, 04:54:35 AM »
earth travels with the speed of light and rocket is stationary. How the one on earth is older?
Remember we can put the referential system anywhere we like - per Einstein relativity theory.

Offline Neo-X

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Re: how fast?
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2012, 07:16:51 AM »
Huh? I did not notice it.. This time the one on the rocket was older. Your post was confusing and please post only a logical example. At speed of light time will completely stop. Some scientist think that when we travel faster than speed of light, time goes backward. Its means we can travel back in time. But for me its impossible, my theory is when we travel faster than speed of light, we can teleport. The time difference of departure and arrival is depend on how many times faster you are compared to the speed of light. 


Offline cristache

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Re: how fast?
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2012, 07:23:45 AM »
Whatever, closer to the speed of light. Same idea, you get a contradiction since you cannot tell which is older just by changing the reference system.
The reality is the same, one travels compared with the other closer to the speed of light
Another example is to put the referential system traveling at high speed between rocket and earth. Now both of them have the same speed compared with this new reference system

Offline Neo-X

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Re: how fast?
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2012, 07:39:59 AM »
I already said the one on the rocket was the older because he was not moving and the earth was moving. I just confuse at first thats why my first post was wrong. You will never ever find the absolute time because all galaxy including our own galaxy are expanding very fast so our time now are quite slow even we are not moving.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline cristache

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Re: how fast?
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2012, 07:56:09 AM »
You missed the point.
earth and rocket are moving one relative to another with 0.9c
If you put the referential system on the rocket, the twin on rocket gets older
if you put the referential system on earth, the twin on earth gets older
if you put the referential system always half distance, moving at constant seep between earth and rocket the twins have the same age at experiment end.
Since there is one phenomenon there should be one single outcome, regardless of the referential system.
A twin cannot be in the same time older and younger than the other.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: how fast?
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2012, 07:56:09 AM »

 

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